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Speaker 1: Good day, sweet world, and welcome to another No Dunks

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Speaker 1: podcast on the Athletic Network. I'm Jay Skeets here with

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Speaker 1: the Bearded One, Tray Kirby and the man making the

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Speaker 1: Magic happ in JD and today we are joined by

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Speaker 1: a very special guest. He is one of the o

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Speaker 1: G NBA writers whose work has appeared at Yahoo, ESPN,

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Speaker 1: Sports Illustrated. He now heads up the ridiculously informative and

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Speaker 1: entertaining NBA newsletter, The Second Arrangement. This man basically invented

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Speaker 1: internet basketball writing. He's our good friend, he's a former colleague.

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Speaker 1: It's Kelly Dwyer, Katie.

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Speaker 2: How's it going, man, It's going great, Fellas NICs for

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Speaker 2: having me on.

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Speaker 1: Really really excited to talk to you. This was sort

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Speaker 1: of a last minute idea that sparked in my brain

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Speaker 1: because we had the whole Last Dance airing over the

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Speaker 1: last couple of Sundays and that ended, and that was

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Speaker 1: fun and everybody had blast talking about it and writing

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Speaker 1: about it, like you did great work at TSA dot

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Speaker 1: substack dot com. But then we find out, hey, ESPN

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Speaker 1: isn't done. We're gonna milk this bad boy. Last night

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Speaker 1: ESPN aired Game six, the movie, which their slick PR

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Speaker 1: department described as a cinematic production of the ninety eight

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Speaker 1: NBA Finals Game six between the Bulls and the Jazz,

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Speaker 1: and the telecast featured exclusive you know never before seeing

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Speaker 1: game footage captured by five different NBA Entertainment cameras. Now,

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Speaker 1: I don't know about you, guys, I was a little

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Speaker 1: skeptical heading into this. I just thought, Okay, it's gonna

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Speaker 1: be the game that we saw on NBC, and they'll

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Speaker 1: splice in the odd cool close up of Michael Jordan

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Speaker 1: or Scottie Pippen or Phil Jackson. And it wasn't that

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Speaker 1: at all. I mean, this whole thing was in high definition.

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Speaker 1: It was one from one of these five cameras. We

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Speaker 1: had the original commentary. I thought it was fantastic. What

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Speaker 1: did you think, Katie? Were you also sort of shocked

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Speaker 1: with the production of this thing?

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Speaker 3: Yes, I thought the production was gonna be like that,

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Speaker 3: But I also also thought I was gonna find it

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Speaker 3: super boring and kind of a drag to watch a

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Speaker 3: really old nineties basketball game with a lot of people.

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Speaker 2: It was great. I thought it was gonna be like

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Speaker 2: that because I know NBA Entertainment has cameras. Even back then,

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Speaker 2: they had stuff everywhere, so I assumed it was going

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Speaker 2: to be pretty solid and put to Kefer and outside

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Speaker 2: of missing the initial shot of Ram and I'm alone wrestling, No,

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Speaker 2: it was perfect. It was great. I had the time

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Speaker 2: of my life. Speaking of someone who's seen that game

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Speaker 2: forty two thousand times.

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Speaker 4: Do you think that is your most watched Bulls game?

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Speaker 4: Because for me, it's between Game six ninety eight and

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Speaker 4: Game four ninety three. Those are like the two pinnacles

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Speaker 4: of watching a Bulls game for me.

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Speaker 5: And I don't know.

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Speaker 4: I was expecting the same thing, like I've watched this

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Speaker 4: so many times, There's no way it's going to be

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Speaker 4: that exciting. And I'm also such a sucker because I

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Speaker 4: had chills on my body before the opening tip even happened.

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Speaker 4: I felt like such a simp for Michael Jordan and

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Speaker 4: the Bulls. I was like something new that I've seen before,

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Speaker 4: but from a slight different angle.

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Speaker 5: I'm one hundred percent.

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Speaker 2: I thought it was beautiful, and I mean it was

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Speaker 2: kind of silly to be so intense for two hours.

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Speaker 2: Every beat of sweat dripping, every eyebrow arched, every bit

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Speaker 2: of crooked finger pointing in Ron Harper's direction. But no,

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Speaker 2: it was. It was fun as heck. I can't believe

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Speaker 2: I'm not burned out by all this stuff, but here

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Speaker 2: we are. I'm angry it's not restreaming right now on

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Speaker 2: ESPN's website.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I heard you on I think it was the

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Speaker 1: Pointless Exercise podcast before this Game six, the movie thing

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Speaker 1: before it showed, and you guys were talking about you

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Speaker 1: were almost like warning listeners to try and not get

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Speaker 1: too excited for Game six of the NBA Finals back

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Speaker 1: in ninety eight, because you know, Old Boy was at

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Speaker 1: a different time, a different game. This thing was ugly

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Speaker 1: and in my head listening to that podcast, like yeah,

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Speaker 1: Kelly's right, yeah this is this is gonna be gross. Like,

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Speaker 1: you know, I've seen this game a couple of times.

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Speaker 1: It's not that good, and I was. I forgot how

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Speaker 1: entertaining the first half was. Especially that was that was

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Speaker 1: sort of a high scoring first half, if you know,

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Speaker 1: if that's fair to say for that for that you know,

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Speaker 1: mid late nineties basketball. Was there anything that shocked you

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Speaker 1: and watching it, you know, in whatever set style, cinematic

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Speaker 1: style we saw there on Wednesday night.

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Speaker 2: I don't think anything shocked me is it just was

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Speaker 2: a reaffirmation of why I do this and why I'm

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Speaker 2: excited about this all this time. Later, to be on

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Speaker 2: the court as they wanted, and to have my eye

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Speaker 2: level be a camera level to take that in in

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Speaker 2: a single bit of frame was moving. It was It

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Speaker 2: was something special. I'm very happy they did that. In

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Speaker 2: terms of surprises, no, outside of just you know, the

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Speaker 2: inner law. The dialogue in between timeouts was fantastic, but

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Speaker 2: everything else was just the coming out to perform a

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Speaker 2: play you've seen a billion times, but you're on your

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Speaker 2: feet at the end of it.

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Speaker 1: One thing that shocked me Kelly was, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: we get we get the Pippen. His back's all buggered

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Speaker 1: and everybody's pointing that out. It goes on throughout the game,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about this. He's back in

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Speaker 1: the locker room. He's is he going to play? Canny play?

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Speaker 1: Can MJ carry this team? I had forgotten, Uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: Costas slips in a line about Pippin was on pace

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Speaker 1: to win finals MVP through the first four games of

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Speaker 1: the ninety eight finals, and I was my my eyebrows

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Speaker 1: went way up. I was like, what hold on I

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Speaker 1: don't remember that with Michael Jordan on your team.

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Speaker 6: I looked it up.

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Speaker 1: Pippin averaged twenty points per game, seven boards, three and

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Speaker 1: a half assists, shot forty seven in the first four games.

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Speaker 6: Of the finals.

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Speaker 1: Was that was that Bob cost Is going a little

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Speaker 1: too far? Was that a bit of a reach and

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Speaker 1: trying to tell that that narrative with that back after

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Speaker 1: coming off the brutal Game five and then barely being

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Speaker 1: able to play in Game six.

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Speaker 2: No, it was absolutely accurate. It may have been a

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Speaker 2: narrative thing like how you going to give it to Michael?

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Speaker 2: Are you not going to give it to Michael over

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Speaker 2: for those three games or whatever, But it was Bob

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Speaker 2: Costas was just prattling on what was absolutely being talked

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Speaker 2: about in Chicago at the Yeah, seriously, it was. It was,

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Speaker 2: and we're cool with it. It was like, this guy

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Speaker 2: just shut down Indiana and now he's you know, they're

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Speaker 2: they're dating, they're giving him a a they're starting. Adam Keith,

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Speaker 2: I mean, they had eighty games to figure out this, Adam.

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Speaker 2: We saw it last night and the only basketball game

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Speaker 2: we're allowed to watch last night, first and third quarters.

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Speaker 2: Adam Keith checked that plus minus can't be good, and yeah,

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Speaker 2: Scotty just did Scotty things. It was fantastic, you know,

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Speaker 2: he got he didn't get to tear up the ninety

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Speaker 2: seven finals because he messed up his foot in the

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Speaker 2: series before that. It's Miami. So this was just him like,

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna be in Phoenix next year. I'm gonna be

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Speaker 2: making sixty seven million out of sign and trade. He

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Speaker 2: had it all planned out. He didn't think about pinstripes

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Speaker 2: at that point in his life. No, he was absolutely

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Speaker 2: it was gonna be him as the MVP, and then

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Speaker 2: he'd you know, get a he go off to the

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Speaker 2: play with the Sons or the Lakers or some other

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Speaker 2: odd formation that wouldn't look right, and it turned out

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Speaker 2: to be. But yeah, until his body the tip go

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Speaker 2: NBA story, until his body blew up, Pippen was was

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Speaker 2: your guy.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I just looked it up.

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Speaker 4: Adam Keith fourteen minutes minus eleven in Game six. It

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Speaker 4: was pretty bad out there. It was also I thought

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Speaker 4: funny to hear It's just funny to hear Costas doing

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Speaker 4: NBA games again because he's so good, but he's also

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Speaker 4: so knowledgeable about like every other sport that's out there.

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Speaker 4: So you know, Greg Foster throws yet another pass to

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Speaker 4: absolutely know. When Costas comes in and says an unforced

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Speaker 4: error to use tennis terminology, It's.

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Speaker 5: Like, we know, man, we get it.

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Speaker 4: But I still love how much he's laying the groundwork

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Speaker 4: for what's gonna eventually happen.

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Speaker 5: Come the fourth quarter, you guys are talking about it.

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Speaker 4: You know, Scotty goes out of the game, and you're

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Speaker 4: hearing Costas literally say things like if anybody's gonna be

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Speaker 4: able to do it, it's him, But can he do it?

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Speaker 4: It feels like a movie, and especially seeing it in

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Speaker 4: that cinematic quality, like with Costas doing it, since he's

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Speaker 4: a broadcaster who has been in so many movies.

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Speaker 5: I just thought of it.

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Speaker 4: I thought it was great, a great mix of talent

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Speaker 4: and and you know technology coming in twenty something years later.

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Speaker 2: It was. He was very annoying, but he all year.

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Speaker 2: He was annoying because Marv was out for reasons that

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Speaker 2: kids can go look up. But he was parad with

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Speaker 2: Isaiah Thomas, and Isaiah was a rookie, and it was

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Speaker 2: just a monologue for every game, and every game didn't

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Speaker 2: need a monologue and yet he you know, like, no,

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Speaker 2: let's not compare it to Michael Jordan. He did a

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Speaker 2: good job being six and we had fun last night.

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Speaker 2: I forget. I thought I was gonna be so sacred

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Speaker 2: Costa just last night, and I wasn't.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's funny that you said this too,

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Speaker 1: like right off the top, like this idea of like, okay,

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Speaker 1: do we got some fatigue setting in here with you know,

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Speaker 1: this whole last dance and the ninety eight Bulls and

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Speaker 1: the Bulls in general and MJ and this whole squad.

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Speaker 1: Because I was starting to reach that that sort of

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Speaker 1: that peak, I think like, Okay, I'm done with this.

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Speaker 1: This has been a lot of fun, especially with no

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Speaker 1: basketball during the during the pandemic. But again I was

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Speaker 1: I couldn't believe how shocked I was that I was

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Speaker 1: riveted to to my TV screen for you know, two

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Speaker 1: and a half hours. That's the other part that actually

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Speaker 1: shocked me. I sort of thought this thing might be

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Speaker 1: edited down right, like into an hour or something like

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Speaker 1: that and get rid of a lot of the illegal

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Speaker 1: defenses being called or something like that, and instead of

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Speaker 1: we got the whole game, which maybe, again I hope

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Speaker 1: it's coming across my voice. I was pleasantly surprised by that.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for showing us the whole thing, because you need

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Speaker 1: to see all this stuff. You need to be reminded

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Speaker 1: Michael Jordan actually steals the ball from Carl Malone in

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Speaker 1: the post midway through the first quarter. I had totally

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Speaker 1: forgotten that. Wow, that'll come into play a little bit

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Speaker 1: later on. I needed to be reminded that some people

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Speaker 1: like Isaiah Thomas call a basket a dunk shot. Kelly,

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Speaker 1: what do you think about calling it a dunk shot?

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Speaker 1: I can't stand that.

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Speaker 2: For some reason, it's better than Marv Albert calls it

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Speaker 2: a stuff all the time, and it's like, wait, what

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Speaker 2: is happening? I had to look away for a second,

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Speaker 2: and I don't know who just rejected whom with what's

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Speaker 2: ferminology from the forties? What did the cage you do?

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Speaker 6: That's true. Stuff can go both ways.

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Speaker 1: So we're not even talking about the Orlando Magic mascot,

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Speaker 1: which may also go both ways now that I'll think

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Speaker 1: about it. But yeah, and then like and then also

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Speaker 1: as reminded like and he had a brutal first six

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Speaker 1: minutes of this game. Jeff Horniseck. He was horrible. He

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Speaker 1: got it going as the game went on. But Man

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Speaker 1: Costas keeps driving home the point of like just how

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Speaker 1: important Jeff Hornisack was to the Jazz success and their

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Speaker 1: chances of coming back to win this series. And I

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Speaker 1: think he's right horn Seck, especially when you see some

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Speaker 1: of the non shooters out there on that Jazz squad.

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Speaker 1: You know, along with the pick and roll of Stockdham alone, Man,

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Speaker 1: he was a he was a hell of an X

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Speaker 1: factor for that team and did not have a good

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Speaker 1: start to that game.

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Speaker 2: Six I mean, he's a six foot fourth son of

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Speaker 2: Lyon Township, had to play center in high school. That's

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Speaker 2: where he learned. By the time the fourth quarter came along,

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Speaker 2: he was. He was right there with it. He had

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Speaker 2: a little turnaround, some some some sort of urban Illinois

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Speaker 2: nonsense in the corner there in the fourth quarter. He

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Speaker 2: got it together. He got yeah, fourth corner. I wanted

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Speaker 2: a rough fourth quarter. Who plays on a Sunday afternoon,

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Speaker 2: the Raptors and the Lakers. That's it.

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Speaker 1: That's it, that's it, and once in a while some

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Speaker 1: finals games back in the nineties. Yeah, So if you

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Speaker 1: haven't watched this, I mean, I highly recommend everybody go

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Speaker 1: watch this game six in the movie that they managed

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Speaker 1: to put together, and look, we're getting this footage and

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Speaker 1: a big part of the reason why we had wanted

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Speaker 1: to have you on wasn't just to sort of dissect

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Speaker 1: this game and talk about talk about Ku coach complaining

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Speaker 1: every time he hit a jumper and always said he

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Speaker 1: got hit on the elbow. He did that every single time.

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Speaker 1: What did you think of the last Dance? I hope

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Speaker 1: you're not exhausted of talking about it. I know you've

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Speaker 1: been on a million podcasts and written about it. Were

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Speaker 1: you a fan? I mean, look, I think most people

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Speaker 1: listening to this no, like like Trey, you are a

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Speaker 1: Bulls fan, grew up in the area.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 6: What'd you think of the last dance? Overall?

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Speaker 2: I thought it was fantastic. This stuff needs to be

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Speaker 2: documented and the thing I kind of did to uh

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Speaker 2: it gets frustrating at times when they say it's a

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Speaker 2: picture from nineteen ninety seven, but it's clearly from nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety eight because Scott Barell's in it. There's gonna be

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Speaker 2: another Bulls documentary down the line, and it's gonna have

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Speaker 2: a lot more of everything. It's gonna have Ron Harper

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Speaker 2: and how what he dealt with growing up. It's gonna

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Speaker 2: have where the heck Bill Wennington came from. It's gonna

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Speaker 2: have more about Steve Kurt, It's gonna have more about Pippin,

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Speaker 2: more about Robmin and how this turns out. So as

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Speaker 2: a as an in between, as you know, as as

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Speaker 2: something to watch it anytime, let alone this time it

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Speaker 2: was hundred percent knockout. I absolutely loved watching it. I

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Speaker 2: didn't get tired of it. I dreaded it some nights

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Speaker 2: because I didn't I was nervous about, you know, some

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Speaker 2: stories being I never want to get sick of this stuff.

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Speaker 2: You got to save some of the great albums. You

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Speaker 2: don't want to overplay him, and if anyone's come close

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Speaker 2: to overplaying them, it's this guy. But it was it

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Speaker 2: was a scene.

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Speaker 3: Man.

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Speaker 2: It was like we knew back then it was something

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Speaker 2: special that it wasn't just a big batch of basketball

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Speaker 2: wins happening a bunch of years in a row. That

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Speaker 2: this stuff was so stupidly dramatic and Hollywood that it

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Speaker 2: was just like, how can you not pay attention to

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Speaker 2: this stuff? If you don't pay attention to basketball at all.

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Speaker 2: And just know Michael Jordan and he walks in the

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Speaker 2: room and he hits a layup and steals the ball

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Speaker 2: from the guy wearing the other uniform and then hits

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Speaker 2: another basketball shot. It's just so wonderfully wrapped up from

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Speaker 2: beginning to end that, Yeah, it was. The Last Dance

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Speaker 2: was fun. It was It was a great time, and

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Speaker 2: I hope it inspires kids to get on YouTube and

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Speaker 2: see how poorly they played basketball at times in the

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Speaker 2: nineties up until this game. This guy's sicks trey inspired

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Speaker 2: me to look it up. It's like a one hundred

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Speaker 2: and fourteen points, four hundred possessions for the balls, one

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Speaker 2: hundred and thirteen for the Utah it was. If it

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Speaker 2: weren't for those fourteen possessions in the entire contest, it

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Speaker 2: would have been a real barnbarner. But instead we just

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Speaker 2: see the eighty seven eighty six score and thinks it's

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Speaker 2: nothing terrible. But it wasn't terrible, Charles, it was a

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Speaker 2: bar and Barber.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, did you have a favorite episode or moment Kelly

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Speaker 1: from the Last Dance, Like, was there one particular story

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Speaker 1: that you liked how they told or was there something

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Speaker 1: you learned. And I know, man, you know a lot

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Speaker 1: of this stuff. What was your I guess what was

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Speaker 1: your favorite part from the whole thing?

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Speaker 2: I liked the when Phil Jackson told it seemed not

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Speaker 2: to be afraid to lose, that these things happen. And

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Speaker 2: I can recall that Game seven preparing for it as

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Speaker 2: a fan. This hadn't really happened before, certainly not to

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Speaker 2: be stakes and how just sort of I wasn't ambivalent,

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Speaker 2: but it was just I was kind of cool with

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Speaker 2: it because I knew I had to steel myself for

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Speaker 2: the idea that some free throws could go the wrong

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Speaker 2: way and the bulls we could really gone some nasty

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Speaker 2: streaks offensively, and that just a forty eight minutes of

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Speaker 2: basketball could go the wrong way, and all it would

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Speaker 2: mean is that forty eight minutes of basketball went the

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Speaker 2: wrong way. And I mean that cuts kind of shapes

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Speaker 2: how I've looked at the game for a while after that,

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Speaker 2: and to have it twenty two years later, have Phil go, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I told him kind of the same thing you were thinking.

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Speaker 2: You know that that was reassuring. I dug that quite

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Speaker 2: a bit. I learned that the Utah Jazz played Beach

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Speaker 2: Boys songs during fourth quarter timeouts and then the finals fans.

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Speaker 2: I can't imagine more.

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Speaker 4: On brand than that. Only John Stockton showing up to

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Speaker 4: a game in a minivan.

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Speaker 2: With the.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that was crazy?

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Speaker 2: Where's Bill Wennington has a full glavel gmc beefy van

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Speaker 2: with There's no many in his set up. There are TVs,

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Speaker 2: there is there's a step down situation, there's a folding couch.

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Speaker 2: Wennington knew how to do it. I just that's what

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Speaker 2: we're waiting for. Is this this years in the making

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Speaker 2: Bill Wennington handicam documentary because I know for a fact

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Speaker 2: he has footage from ninety six. I know for a

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Speaker 2: fact he may have been overserved on the Champion Shift

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Speaker 2: night that that footage may have gotten into some trouble.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, but there could be three years worth

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Speaker 2: of beautiful Bill weddings and stuff we've got to look

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Speaker 2: forward to. So you know, stay tuned to ESPN plus

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Speaker 2: minus forty two ninety seven. In the year twenty forty two, it.

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Speaker 6: Was I hope we get the Bill Wennington tapes.

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Speaker 1: I agree with you. He says we're never going to

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Speaker 1: see them. I think he said that, but you know,

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Speaker 1: he'll come around for sure. Was there was there anything

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Speaker 1: you were shocked to see not included in the doc

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Speaker 1: Kelly or like, was there someone that you know they

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Speaker 1: didn't interview that you were surprised didn't make it.

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Speaker 2: There's just the shock. How do you leave out? Don't tell,

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Speaker 2: don't no mail go? Well, I can't remember exactly what

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Speaker 2: Scotty said, but it was something about a post of

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Speaker 2: delivery service on Sunday. See, it's been a while since

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Speaker 2: I've actually heard it. Because this documentary didn't put in

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Speaker 2: the greatest trash talk line in the history of trash

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Speaker 2: talk that's ever been crazy. It was insane.

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Speaker 5: Well, it was insane to not include it.

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Speaker 4: And then we see in game six the you know,

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Speaker 4: the following year, fans are showing up with signs that say.

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Speaker 5: The mailman does deliver on Sundays. Well, I got bad

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Speaker 5: news for you, lady. The rules are the same no

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Speaker 5: matter what state you're in.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, to skip over that, And I thought they

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Speaker 4: also gave kind of short shrift to the Knick series

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Speaker 4: from ninety two. I would have been happy seeing them

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Speaker 4: do that Knick series the same way they did that

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Speaker 4: Pacers series from ninety.

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Speaker 2: Eight, that Nex series is horrifying. That next series was

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Speaker 2: far more horrifying than the ninety eight one. Could I

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Speaker 2: could just the ninety three to one where the Knicks

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Speaker 2: at home court advantage was somehow less like who are

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Speaker 2: these knicks? And it's wow, this can actually happened. It

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Speaker 2: was absolutely horrified. Where's the pacers? You knew what you were?

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Speaker 2: A good Eric McKee off the bench? Come on, you've

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Speaker 2: seen this all? Think a long.

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Speaker 1: What do you make of these reports that are coming

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Speaker 1: out now after the last dances concluded from guys like

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Speaker 1: Pippin or Horace Grant like not being happy with how

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Speaker 1: they were portrayed in this documentary, especially the Pippen angle,

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Speaker 1: which is fascinating. I guess he's like quote angry and

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Speaker 1: beyond livid at at Jordan and the filmmakers of how

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Speaker 1: he came across in the dock. I was a little

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Speaker 1: bit shocked to see that. But what's your take on

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Speaker 1: on Pippin? I guess reacting to this, you know these

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Speaker 1: are the reports.

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Speaker 2: At least I don't know anyone right now who's walking

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Speaker 2: away from from listening to Scotty Pippen in the documentary

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Speaker 2: and now thinking that guy is the coolest cat in

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Speaker 2: the history of cool cat. So he came off. He

388
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Speaker 2: was like, he explained how he robbed the bank. He

389
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Speaker 2: talks about how he calmed down the teller. He said

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Speaker 2: where he hit the money, he did, drew a map

391
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Speaker 2: to where he and the was just so cool about that.

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Speaker 2: We're like, yeah, okay, okay, gonna do it again if

393
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Speaker 2: it ever happened. Okay, okay, that's fine. Surgery in October, Okay, Yeah, totally, dude,

394
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Speaker 2: he gave his heart and sold the Chicago and I

395
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Speaker 2: had to me that came across in the documentary. Uh.

396
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Speaker 2: What I hope is that Horace frant and Craig Hodges

397
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Speaker 2: and Scottie Pippen all go out in front of their

398
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Speaker 2: own independent and its documentaries should be a varying quality.

399
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Speaker 2: Formats will be different. It's also we have all this

400
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Speaker 2: marvelous footage for again this documentary that's going to be

401
00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:11,959
Speaker 2: rolling down the Pike then by Jerry and Grant Junior

402
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Speaker 2: in twenty forty two.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm with you.

404
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Speaker 1: I was, actually I'm shocked to sort of see these

405
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Speaker 1: reports again from Pippen that he's not happy. I guess

406
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Speaker 1: the what we're being told is some of these guys

407
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Speaker 1: on that team were being pitched the idea that this

408
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Speaker 1: was a ninety seven ninety eight Bulls documentary, and then

409
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Speaker 1: I watch it and find out, Wait, it's not really

410
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:32,719
Speaker 1: about that.

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Speaker 6: It's about Michael Jordan.

412
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Speaker 1: I'm not sure how you wouldn't have known, but I

413
00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:39,280
Speaker 1: guess maybe that's that's what they were told. Trey, do

414
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Speaker 1: you agree with Kelly, Like, do you think Pippen was

415
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Speaker 1: total look totally cool and finding this dock and it's

416
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Speaker 1: a little shocking us upset?

417
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I thought Pippen was great in the documentary. I

418
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Speaker 4: thought he came off as a cool guy. You know,

419
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Speaker 4: his line I wasn't gonna fuck up my summer was

420
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Speaker 4: one of the headlines of the series early on.

421
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Speaker 5: But you know, I can see where he's coming from.

422
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,040
Speaker 4: Where if he this is going to be just a

423
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Speaker 4: documentary on the last run with the Bulls, and you know,

424
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Speaker 4: the worst stuff that's going to be about Scotty Pippen

425
00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:08,879
Speaker 4: is that he wanted to be traded or.

426
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Speaker 5: You know that he waited on his surgery.

427
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:12,800
Speaker 4: Then that's fine, but maybe it's a little bit different

428
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:14,639
Speaker 4: if you sit down thinking it's about that and then

429
00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:16,840
Speaker 4: you hear all of the low lights in your career,

430
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Speaker 4: and you're not necessarily necessarily hearing all of the low

431
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Speaker 4: lights of Michael Jordan's career. That could sting a little bit,

432
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Speaker 4: but no offense. There were a lot more low lights

433
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:26,399
Speaker 4: for Scotty Pippens than there were for Michael Jordan in

434
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Speaker 4: the nineties. That's just how it was when you're the

435
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:28,680
Speaker 4: number two guy.

436
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:31,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, oh, you're not wrong.

437
00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:34,439
Speaker 2: Well, I've been caught up on these reports. Did you

438
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,440
Speaker 2: say there were reports of Scott Pippen being unhappy? This

439
00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:41,800
Speaker 2: is just what year could this possibly be?

440
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,439
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, that's he's going to do it.

441
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,199
Speaker 2: And you know, again, the biggest disappointment should be that

442
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:50,680
Speaker 2: we didn't get to see more ninety seven to ninety stuff.

443
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:52,680
Speaker 2: The fact that they had eighty two games of footage.

444
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:54,719
Speaker 2: Apparently these guys are like, what did we have these

445
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,359
Speaker 2: guys all up in our business for for eight months?

446
00:20:57,359 --> 00:20:58,239
Speaker 2: So I can kind of get that.

447
00:20:58,760 --> 00:20:59,520
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's fair.

448
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:03,160
Speaker 1: And look, I mean with something this big, everybody's gonna

449
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,240
Speaker 1: nitpick it and all that. I mean, we've done it.

450
00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:05,600
Speaker 6: I know.

451
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:10,480
Speaker 1: Lee was going crazy pointing out particular shots made that

452
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:12,960
Speaker 1: they would show us that we're out of order.

453
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:14,160
Speaker 6: Hey, that's not in order.

454
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,159
Speaker 1: That came in a different game earlier, and Trey pointing

455
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:21,280
Speaker 1: out this whole Jordan wearing his shorts backwards was actually

456
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,239
Speaker 1: maybe not what happened, right Like, he didn't point them

457
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,240
Speaker 1: on backwards, it was you know, the company that made

458
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:28,879
Speaker 1: the shorts screwed up and put the logo in the

459
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:29,439
Speaker 1: wrong spot.

460
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:30,080
Speaker 6: Was there anything?

461
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:35,040
Speaker 2: They completely made up stories? They absolutely They have an

462
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,200
Speaker 2: anecdote where the bulls are walking out of a practice

463
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,359
Speaker 2: on a Sunday, Indianapolis day where street Indianapolis street signs

464
00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,600
Speaker 2: are visible. Then they go outside, Jordan hanks the horn

465
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:45,080
Speaker 2: on the bus a bunch of time. It's all great,

466
00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:47,199
Speaker 2: it's all fun. That could be one shot. But then

467
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,639
Speaker 2: they said no, let's bleed this with a shot of

468
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,400
Speaker 2: them playing golf in Orlando two months before that. Right,

469
00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:54,919
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm glad that's in there. I'm glad we

470
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 2: got to see Ron Harper go this buzz for you.

471
00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,320
Speaker 2: I'm so happy all this exists. I just I don't

472
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,840
Speaker 2: think I'm being cynical. They're talking down to us when

473
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,840
Speaker 2: they just you know, it's okay, it's okay to let

474
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 2: it do not warts at all, just it doesn't have

475
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,359
Speaker 2: to be a BAFO story. The idea of Michael Jordan

476
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 2: does its own talking. All we just need is a

477
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,400
Speaker 2: little sideline stuff. We did. The less production, the less direction,

478
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 2: the less conniving the better, And there was a lot

479
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:22,000
Speaker 2: of conniving in this line.

480
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:25,240
Speaker 1: Were you around these teams, Kelly at all? Or is

481
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:27,200
Speaker 1: this this a little bit before even your time?

482
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:27,560
Speaker 2: I know you were.

483
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,120
Speaker 1: I guess you started writing on the internet around ninety

484
00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:30,800
Speaker 1: seven to ninety here.

485
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:34,200
Speaker 2: Right, But no, But I wasn't at these games, but

486
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:38,040
Speaker 2: on Sports Channel, which we luckily got. I moved to

487
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 2: Indianapolis and Nadi, India.

488
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 7: For the for the third three pat I was in

489
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 7: the suburbs for the first three pet and the Sports

490
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,120
Speaker 7: Channel showed the live in the locker room after every game,

491
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,960
Speaker 7: so we got podium stuff after every game.

492
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,360
Speaker 2: You got to see Dennis Robin would only be interviewed

493
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:57,920
Speaker 2: on the way out because his people wanted like these

494
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:01,440
Speaker 2: MTV style jump cuts, weird angles, and what's the best

495
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 2: way to get that is to make a big camera

496
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,359
Speaker 2: man move around his giant nineteen nineties camera while this

497
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 2: guy busts out of the place. But we saw every

498
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:12,680
Speaker 2: podium thing in the playoffs was documented every after the game,

499
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 2: thing was documented. It was just it was a big deal.

500
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 2: We knew it then, So yeah, for someone who wasn't

501
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 2: able to I was writing about it the last year online.

502
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,440
Speaker 2: But for someone who didn't have media access, we got

503
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,879
Speaker 2: media access if you wanted to. It was that Sports

504
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,440
Speaker 2: Channel did a remarkable job because they knew they had,

505
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:33,560
Speaker 2: you know, some business on their hands and they're about

506
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,440
Speaker 2: to sell the Fox and a year and Michael Jordan

507
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:38,400
Speaker 2: was only going to do this for so long. We'd

508
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 2: had this taken away from us before, the knowledge that

509
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,680
Speaker 2: every other night it seemed was this big giant deal

510
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 2: because the game against the Hawks was a big giant deal.

511
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 2: So you know, we traded it with the respect that deserved.

512
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,679
Speaker 4: What in the documentary really stuck out to you of

513
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:59,360
Speaker 4: being in that moment of being, you know, a kid

514
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 4: growing up the bulls in the suburbs. Because two that

515
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 4: really stuck out to me was when Jordan is sitting

516
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,239
Speaker 4: in traffic on ninety ninety four and it's raining and

517
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:08,639
Speaker 4: he's just complaining.

518
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:08,800
Speaker 5: About his job.

519
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,160
Speaker 4: And number two that bj Armstrong and Michael Jordan apparently

520
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 4: hatched the plan to come back to the NBA at.

521
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,200
Speaker 5: A Baker's Square. I was like, there's no better place

522
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:18,679
Speaker 5: to talk business than a Baker Square.

523
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,119
Speaker 2: I don't know how you eat breakfast in a Baker's

524
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,160
Speaker 2: Square because it just makes you want to eat pie

525
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 2: for breakfast. It's just like I get that they have

526
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 2: an all day menu. What stood out to me it's

527
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 2: they're Frankly, there weren't a lot of surprises, so I

528
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,399
Speaker 2: gotta be honest. There the in between stuff that we

529
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 2: saw last night that was in the documentary too. I'm

530
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 2: sure there's a lot of shared video that stuck out

531
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:44,919
Speaker 2: to me. So just the in between stuff Dennis come

532
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,479
Speaker 2: up with, Robin coming back to practice and Phil Jackson

533
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:49,639
Speaker 2: talking about the time he may or may not have

534
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:51,919
Speaker 2: tried to get the entire team to get these foam

535
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 2: nerf toys to bash him on the head with some

536
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 2: sort of symbolic release. That just the little basketball bits

537
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 2: in between. He Pippin has brought up in the Pointless

538
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 2: Exercise podcast pipping with his back reconstructed on the fly

539
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 2: thanks to the fists and elbows of the Chicago Bulls

540
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,400
Speaker 2: training staff offering to take a charge from Carl Malone.

541
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,919
Speaker 2: I'm the last play of the game. This guy hasn't

542
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 2: been a Chicago Bowl for the ninety eight ninety eight

543
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,160
Speaker 2: nine seasons since like five years before that. He's made

544
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,919
Speaker 2: his mind up that July first, nineteen ninety eight, it's

545
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 2: going to be all over and here our man is on,

546
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 2: you know, June sixteenth or whatever. Yeah, I'll slip another disc. Yeah,

547
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 2: just just lay that knee into me, the knee that

548
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 2: destroyed Damiel Marshall's life, the the elbows that risked David

549
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 2: Robinson's career. Yeah, throw that at me. It's a great team.

550
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 2: I'm just I'm happy it's out there, is the thing,

551
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 2: because some of my entire life trying to get it

552
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 2: out there in bits and pieces. And it's not like

553
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,119
Speaker 2: watching your favorite band play, you know, to nights and

554
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 2: row at the United Center. It's well, it's not. I

555
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,120
Speaker 2: don't feel weird or off that this is out there,

556
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 2: because this stuff is meant to be shared, it's meant

557
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 2: to be watched, it's meant to inspire people, and I'm

558
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 2: glad it's back again. Yeah.

559
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 4: I think there's something too that where you could have

560
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 4: gotten all this information, but you have to read several books,

561
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 4: which if you're a big Bulls fan, you probably have,

562
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 4: and you probably do know a lot of these stories,

563
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 4: but having them all in that one place, I think

564
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,360
Speaker 4: is just huge as a as a historical document.

565
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 5: I mean, you're not gonna be.

566
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 4: Able to get the flavor of, you know, Scotty coming

567
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 4: back and you're amazed that he's coming back. But it's

568
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 4: a little bit different to see Phil Jackson, a guy

569
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 4: with championships in the huddle. Scotty walks up there like

570
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 4: he's a pregnant lady holding his back and even Phil's like,

571
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,640
Speaker 4: you can start, really all right, Dennis back to the bench.

572
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 5: I guess yeah.

573
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 4: I think that's a you know, and that's why I

574
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 4: think it's a little surprising that Pippen would be upset

575
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 4: with how he's portrayed, because I mean, you just got

576
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 4: to watch Game six to see how much he's given

577
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 4: to the Bulls, even in what's going to be his

578
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,880
Speaker 4: last game essentially in their uniform.

579
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 2: Just unending drama. Just is that how basketball works. That's

580
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 2: that's what happens. He mean, I thought there was things

581
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,119
Speaker 2: he had to sign in papers and several rows of

582
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 2: coaches he had to explain himself to, but no, it's

583
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 2: kind of Pip and walking right up to the huddle

584
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 2: going hey, I'm here. It's it's incredible. It's a reaffirm

585
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 2: it's an affirmation of just how simple this game is.

586
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 2: That at the end of it, it's two and a

587
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 2: half hours that these guys get twelve minutes at a

588
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 2: time to perform and they got to hit these weird notes.

589
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 2: And it's cool that we're still talking about this two

590
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 2: and a half hours from Sunday years later.

591
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's crazy.

592
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 1: What do you think was the best Bulls team of

593
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: all time?

594
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 6: Kelly?

595
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 2: I've thought about this a lot, and for years my

596
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 2: go to was just like, you know, pick a random

597
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 2: night in ninety one, ninety two, somewhere in the middle there.

598
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 2: You know, I really really think it's you pick a

599
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 2: random night in like December January of ninety five, ninety six,

600
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 2: and I don't I get that the line is three

601
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 2: points and it's different now, but I just that's he

602
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 2: would be so good against just any other Batch in

603
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 2: NBA history, respect by some delay, respect ors, graat respect

604
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 2: but just that stretch before Scotti's body just fell apart

605
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 2: a boy two thirds of the way in the ninety

606
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,439
Speaker 2: five ninety six season, he just started taking random twelve

607
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 2: six games off before Dennis headbutted ted Bernhardt Lafayette, Indiana,

608
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,159
Speaker 2: before all this happened, there was just a stretch of

609
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 2: craziness where it was and that must have been the

610
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 2: three month from Jeff Bushler. That must have been right

611
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 2: at about that time where it was like, yeah, there's

612
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 2: really we understand that the team's going to lose at

613
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 2: some point, but when it happens, it's going to be

614
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 2: some bull because there's no reason for this team to

615
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 2: lose right right looking at you, Denver.

616
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: The follow up question of that is which team that

617
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 1: the Bulls saw in the finals do you think was

618
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 1: the best and you know, the closest I guess in

619
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 1: your opinion to taking down that Bulls dynasty.

620
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 2: I was worried the most about the Jazz by a lot,

621
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 2: because after Game one in ninety eight, it was just

622
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,719
Speaker 2: any NBA guy that wasn't picking the Jazz back then

623
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 2: it was being silly because the Bulls looked tired. I

624
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 2: didn't do that. I was not in the business of

625
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 2: picket in the event then. But it was after Game

626
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 2: one hit as Stockton just destroyed Kerr over and over

627
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 2: and over again. It was it was tough, and I

628
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 2: would have probably said then and now that the real

629
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 2: answer would be the Sonics with a better coach, because

630
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 2: it's Shawn Kemp has gotten his day in the year

631
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 2: since everyone's talked about how fabulous he was, now worried

632
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 2: about him because Seawn Kemp was going to follow himself

633
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 2: out by running people over at Peyton was insane. Peyton

634
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 2: was so good, and Peyton played like a mini Jordan.

635
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 2: It wasn't like he has to get hot from three.

636
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,959
Speaker 2: It was just rolled some quick post ups and six

637
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 2: to four stuff and using his right hand on the

638
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 2: left side when he shouldn't have. Peyton was scary as heck,

639
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 2: and I don't even mean defensively. And had that been

640
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 2: you know, had that been rerouted, had they not gone

641
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 2: with the gimmick of using Frank Prokowski and taken his

642
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 2: very good sixty four win team out of a complete

643
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 2: and utter rhythm that it was in. George Carl is

644
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 2: a great motivator and at times a great coach. And

645
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 2: I think he dropped the ball in that series, So.

646
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 4: You think he's dropping the ball on the offensive side though,

647
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 4: rather than the defensive side, because I mean, obviously Peyton

648
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 4: is claiming, you know, during the ninety six finals, I

649
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 4: didn't guard Jordan till Game four.

650
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 5: Then look what happened.

651
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 4: Do you buy it if he would have been on

652
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 4: Jordan's Yeah, I don't just start they're more competitive.

653
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 2: I don't think that Gary Peyton. I know they went

654
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 2: to seven games in Utah, Like, I get that, But

655
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 2: I don't think Gary Payton is going to tire out

656
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 2: taking the Bulls to seven games, playing taking all the

657
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 2: shots on one end and just sweating all over Michael

658
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 2: Jordan on the other end. Michael Jordan started working out

659
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 2: in May, and now it's June the next year. It's

660
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 2: thirteen months later at this point, since since Horace and

661
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 2: Shack made him angry and sent him to the weight

662
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 2: room the next day, like he didn't let up, And

663
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 2: now it's thirteen months later and he's got a deal

664
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 2: with GP. Get right out of Tom Fellas.

665
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a I love this debate. That is it

666
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 1: the Sonics or is it the Jazz? I mean again,

667
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 1: watching that Game six, the movie there on Wednesday night,

668
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 1: it's tough not to scratch your head and a lot

669
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 1: of some of a lot of the decisions Jerry Sloan

670
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 1: is making I think in that game too, and that

671
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 1: that's Jerry Sloan's m O. I know there's some people like, oh,

672
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 1: he's so regimented, and like why is this guy like

673
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 1: keeps getting those minutes and this guy's getting those minutes. Wait,

674
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 1: that's Jerry Sloan, right, I mean, wasn't That was his

675
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 1: whole coaching mo O was He didn't even have to

676
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 1: look at the guys on the bench to say get

677
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: up and go in. It was like, this is when

678
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: it happens. These are our lineups at this particular time.

679
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 1: It's fair to now when you know, losing the series,

680
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: I think you can go, man.

681
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 6: Maybe one maybe you should have tried a little bit.

682
00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, especially that stuck out to me so much

683
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 1: this game six of like what do you do with

684
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 1: Jerry Sloan, Like, come on man, like you're down a

685
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 1: game in this series. Tried get a little creative, you know,

686
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 1: undo your tie a little bit, but not Jerry Sloan.

687
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

688
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: So's it's funny to hear the the how George Caral

689
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: definitely didn't maybe help his team in that finals against

690
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: the Bulls.

691
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 6: I think the same could be said for Jerry Sloan too.

692
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,719
Speaker 2: Sloan wasn't averse to that too. Antoine Carr barely played

693
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 2: in a really close game four in ninety eight, then

694
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 2: he went from like nothing to twenty plus minutes the

695
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 2: next game, so it wasn't like he true. I think

696
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 2: he maybe tried it with Chris Morris, but you know

697
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 2: a lot of people have tried things with Chris Morris.

698
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the big question is Yeah, there are other

699
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 4: things that I feel like Sloan could have done, you know.

700
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,719
Speaker 4: But it's also funny to hear Bob cost this being amazed.

701
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 4: He's like, the Jazz have gotten nothing from Oaster, Tag

702
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 4: and Foster this series, Like, what are you expecting? The

703
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 4: key to me had to be there were not enough

704
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 4: picking rolls. Jerry Sloan run some more pick and rolls.

705
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 4: That's what Stockton and Malone are famous for. Like Stockton

706
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 4: was on fire in the fourth quarter, you know, but

707
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 4: he ends up with taking ten shots for the game.

708
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 4: They should all him do more. And I feel like,

709
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 4: if it's twenty twenty, you're seeing that pick and roll

710
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 4: every single time. Because Malone had it going, Stockton eventually

711
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 4: got it going. And it just seems like sometimes the

712
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 4: opponents of the Bulls think themselves out of the game

713
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 4: because they're trying to do anything they possibly can to

714
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 4: get a win against Jordan and the Bulls.

715
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 2: I would encourage your listeners to pay four ninety nine

716
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 2: and pick up that ESPN Plus if they're into this stuff,

717
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 2: and watch that ESPN detail stuff on the Phil Jackson's

718
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 2: got a couple. Dennis Rodman has one that will put

719
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 2: a lump in your throat. It's so beautiful. See Kuruz

720
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 2: got a hilarious one. But Jackson and Kurt just both

721
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 2: mentioned that like this the jazz, it's the bread butters,

722
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 2: the pick and roll vers. It's nothing like how much

723
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 2: they run it today. It's like, yeah, that was like,

724
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 2: you know when someone was known for the they ran

725
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 2: two pick and rolls a game, and that's that's Jimmy

726
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 2: pick and roll over there every one of these games.

727
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 2: It's hard to watch games like this, whether it's on

728
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 2: tape or whether it's the beautiful movie we saw last

729
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 2: night and not go. This team could have had it,

730
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 2: but so many of these teams could have had it.

731
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 2: All those Indianapolis game sevens could have had it. All

732
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 2: the knicked teams could have had it. Whatever it was

733
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 2: that Jordan did, it was always at arms length, and

734
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 2: I don't know how it happened, but I'm just glad

735
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 2: I was around for it.

736
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,800
Speaker 1: You do an unbelievable job of and you've done it

737
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 1: here on this podcast as people have noticed. I'm sure

738
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 1: of slipping in like little musical references either talking to

739
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 1: us or a lot of the times at the second arrangement.

740
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,399
Speaker 1: You did it back all the time, and you're writing

741
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 1: days at Yahoo. So we got to know, are you

742
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:45,319
Speaker 1: a big Kenny Lattimore guy?

743
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 2: I couldn't believe you know No, I mean, I like, no, no,

744
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 2: I'm not nineties production gets away from me. And I

745
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 2: know who Kenny Latimore is, and I know that song

746
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 2: that took off at after it, I rose happy that

747
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 2: I recognized too, and I and I listened no if

748
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 2: you're gonna pick listen No, I did. I did enjoy

749
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 2: the Pearl Jam song. I did get upset that they

750
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 2: put I did get upset that they put Rosa Parks

751
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 2: in there for a game and April when Rosa Parks

752
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,759
Speaker 2: didn't come out till like October, and everyone that was

753
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 2: one hundred percent, man, I was one hundred percent the

754
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 2: the album of that fall, that winter, and you're trying

755
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 2: to shove it down our throats the spring before. Get

756
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 2: out of there. Get out of there with that you

757
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 2: can find some other time. Thrown a bit about the lockout,

758
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 2: make it the theme for the entire documentary. I don't care, no,

759
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 2: Keny Latiber. That was a surprise. I was. I was

760
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 2: in my hat. I was thinking R Kelly, I was hoping.

761
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 2: I didn't you know they showed him it was R Kelly.

762
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 2: I was thinking it was gonna be some Jeffrey Osbourne.

763
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 2: But that's a little too old at that point. It

764
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 2: was gonna be something smooth, and it.

765
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 6: Was Uh, did you the R and B? Yeah? Did

766
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 6: you like the the last dance?

767
00:35:57,800 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 2: You know?

768
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 1: Soundtracked over all though, I mean that's they did a

769
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 1: fun song.

770
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 2: They did a great job. It's you know, nineties is

771
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 2: the worst era of music. I'm sorry. I can't get

772
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:11,720
Speaker 2: away from it. However, well, no, eighties is pretty bad too. Also,

773
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:15,800
Speaker 2: the two thousands are pretty rough. There's a good chunk between,

774
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,839
Speaker 2: like seventy four and eighty two that people should listen to,

775
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 2: and also like forty after the war, the Bebop, it

776
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 2: was great. It was great. The Pearl Jam song is

777
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 2: like the only Pearl Jam song that would have gotten me.

778
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 2: That is genuinely my favorite Pearl Jam song. I'm not

779
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 2: a big Pearl Jam guy, you know, Beck, you didn't

780
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 2: have having ten was like having Boston's first album. You

781
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 2: didn't have to do that. It was just everywhere you

782
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 2: knew every song, you know. So I thought I was

783
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,799
Speaker 2: past Pearl Jam at the time that No Exit came out.

784
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 2: My dad bought it for me out of nowhere I

785
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:51,880
Speaker 2: came from from school. He was like, Pearl Jam at

786
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 2: an album, kid say about today, and I bought it

787
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:57,439
Speaker 2: for you to like, Okay, this is these are feelings.

788
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,400
Speaker 2: But I was surprised. It was like a up on

789
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 2: three for them. It was just this kind of airy,

790
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 2: spacey and a really good humbuffer tone on present sense.

791
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 2: That's what I've always liked from them. And when they

792
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 2: promoted that album, they also appeared on David Letterman and

793
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 2: David Letterman had a gimmick that night where he would

794
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 2: turn the camera upside down and that that's you know,

795
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 2: that's how that's how TV was in the nineties. So

796
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 2: figuring what you could do out do with standard death

797
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 2: I'm happy for this game six thing because my tape

798
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 2: of that has a thunderstorm warning bar across the entire

799
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 2: game the entire time.

800
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 6: Oh really it was storming in ninety eight, was it?

801
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,320
Speaker 2: I didn't know who Jordan who hit the game winning

802
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 2: shot until I had to read the newspaper the next thing.

803
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 6: I thought a rain cloud hit the game six winning shot.

804
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:46,359
Speaker 6: Up until the next day.

805
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 4: I keep thinking how crazy it must be for Eddie Vedder,

806
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 4: Like if you were to tell him back in nineteen

807
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 4: ninety one. Eventually one of the songs you wrote is

808
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 4: going to close out a documentary twenty years later on

809
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 4: the Greatest Bulls Team of All Time?

810
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 5: What what Eddie Vedder has said back then?

811
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:04,800
Speaker 4: Because I mean, you know, he was closed with Rodman

812
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 4: during the second three peat.

813
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 5: I know Billy Corgan was a big bulls guy.

814
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,439
Speaker 4: But also back in the day, you know, Pearl Jim

815
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,399
Speaker 4: was very much fighting the establishment, and there's not many

816
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 4: things that are more establishment now than Michael Jordan.

817
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 2: It's a cool you know, Eddie Vedder was warning air

818
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 2: Jordan's when he was a gas station attendant, So seriously,

819
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 2: think how much that put him back to do that

820
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:29,359
Speaker 2: in his You know pre stardom days that no, it was.

821
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 2: It was very cool. I guess Eddie minded him in

822
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 2: the ninety six finals. Speaking of Rodman, Billy Corgan watched

823
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 2: him in the ninety seven finals because Billy Corgan is

824
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 2: also friends with Bison Deley, and I think Vetter was

825
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 2: back for the ninety This is the extent of my

826
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 2: alt rock nineties knowledge. I don't know when the Afghan

827
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:52,239
Speaker 2: Wakes came in, but yeah, it's like they genuinely like

828
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 2: traded off finals, kind of keeping Rodman in check and

829
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 2: making sure he got to bed before ninety up.

830
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 1: All right, we got I take a quick break, but

831
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 1: we'll be right back after this.

832
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 2: Guys.

833
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,480
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834
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,840
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835
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836
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837
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838
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839
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840
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841
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842
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843
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844
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845
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:54,440
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846
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:58,279
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847
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853
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883
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Speaker 6: To day shipping.

884
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Speaker 1: We can pivot a little bit from the last danceaff

885
00:41:57,600 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 1: We want because I want to get your take on

886
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:02,240
Speaker 1: the likelihood of the NBA season returning.

887
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 6: And I guess my first question is.

888
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:06,840
Speaker 1: Have you missed it or has this last dance airing

889
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:10,759
Speaker 1: filled that hole in your basketball heart? Where are you

890
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,360
Speaker 1: at right now with both missing basketball because we're like,

891
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 1: what at two months at this point, and then the

892
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:17,800
Speaker 1: idea of this thing coming back, be it in Orlando

893
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 1: or also Las.

894
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 2: Vegas, it's very strong. I don't I thought of this

895
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 2: right away because you have no choice but to just

896
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 2: sit around and think about everything. This is the first

897
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 2: spring I can remember in my life that I wasn't

898
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 2: paying obscene attention to the playoffs. I don't remember the

899
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,319
Speaker 2: spring of eighty seven. I remember the spring of eighty

900
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 2: eight and a whole lot of that Pistons Bowl Series

901
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 2: and CAF series and just being obsessed with it. And

902
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 2: it's continued unabated until now, even the lockouts had spring.

903
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 2: I've missed it, but it hasn't been an issue because

904
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 2: it's been good to function like a human being through

905
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 2: a little bit of this. You know, forty games and

906
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 2: forty nights was a bit much, and it's you know,

907
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 2: it's allowed me to catch up on things and learn

908
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 2: about all of Caesar's conquests and all of the fall

909
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 2: of the empire. I'm working my way back to the

910
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 2: start of the empire. I don't know if I want

911
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 2: to learn about it now that I know how it

912
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 2: all ended. I'm not exactly rooting for these guys. It's

913
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 2: been fun to catch up on stuff. I'm going to

914
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 2: get some books in, but these are performers, and I

915
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:29,360
Speaker 2: don't worry about the spark returning. But I do feel

916
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,800
Speaker 2: bad that a chunk of these men and women's lives,

917
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 2: these players and coaches are sidelined right now. This is

918
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:41,320
Speaker 2: what they want to do with their lives, and among

919
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 2: all the other mini things happening right now, that is

920
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 2: a drag myself personally. You know, YouTube is a lot

921
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 2: of fun, and you can just type in May nineteen

922
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:52,879
Speaker 2: ninety seven and you got a basketball game at Falsley too.

923
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 4: So it hasn't been all Julius Caesar. It's been a

924
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:58,760
Speaker 4: little bit of Julius Irving as well. I would imagine

925
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:00,840
Speaker 4: calling your time sometimes with some old games.

926
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 2: One hundred percent all old games, it's just there's it's

927
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,839
Speaker 2: and that old baseball games, but old basketball games are

928
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 2: so much fun because they just always play a center.

929
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,799
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter how he got to the arena. It

930
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 2: doesn't matter if he went to a college that was

931
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 2: known for basketball or Hotel Maindenance. It's just no matter what,

932
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:26,319
Speaker 2: there's always a glen in there and he's seven to two,

933
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 2: and there's just no there's no reason for it. But

934
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 2: we're all here for inexplicably, we're here for eighty two

935
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 2: games and yet another NBA season and it's on YouTube.

936
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:40,760
Speaker 2: It's just it's Yes, there's certainly enough content to go around.

937
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 2: As you mentioned these books that, especially the ones that

938
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 2: don't have indexes that you can't cheat. Go and read Halberstam.

939
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:48,800
Speaker 2: It's all in there. It's a better last dance, truly.

940
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,840
Speaker 2: Habersdam's book will leave your jaw on the floor with

941
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 2: just the audacity of that era, that the bulls to

942
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 2: do bull stuff.

943
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 1: You're someone missing basketball. But how you doing with no baseball?

944
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:02,399
Speaker 1: Because you you are a big, big baseball guy, and

945
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 1: you know we'd obviously, we would obviously have the season

946
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 1: in full swing right now, pun intended, sweet crack of

947
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 1: the bat, smell the grass?

948
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 6: How you holding up with no baseball?

949
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 5: Kelly?

950
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 2: I don't ask until August because I'm really good, Like

951
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 2: I'm not going to tell everyone my team because it

952
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 2: don't embarrass me. But I don't even know what is

953
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 2: happening until after the draft, Like, oh, I don't even watch,

954
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 2: not out of a I'm not out of an education,

955
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:31,880
Speaker 2: not out of a professional thing. It's just I have

956
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 2: got there's so much basketball up until the end of

957
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 2: the basketball that it's just I will look at the standings,

958
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,279
Speaker 2: and then once the NBA season ends, it's I know

959
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:44,279
Speaker 2: everything that's happening in triple A, double A. How many

960
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 2: pitches that guy's do on that day. It's it's right

961
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 2: into dorkthm. Then but right now on a baby, No,

962
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:52,799
Speaker 2: I'm fine again, just pull up a I've learned that

963
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 2: Tony kuebec is an amazing, amazing speaking of Bob costas

964
00:45:57,520 --> 00:45:59,399
Speaker 2: his partner on all these Games of the Week from

965
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,319
Speaker 2: the eighties, he's so good. I looked him up, he

966
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 2: leaned left. It turned out his go check out his Wikipedia.

967
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:08,360
Speaker 2: He's a modern guy from the eighties talking in the eighties,

968
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:13,319
Speaker 2: throwing on on base percentage. He's pronouncing azikeen ozzig. I

969
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:15,360
Speaker 2: can't pronounce it the proper way. But he's pronouncing it

970
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 2: the proper Venezuelan way as Ozzie Wreck Tony Kubeck. If

971
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 2: you're missing baseball, go look this gentleman up. Wow, Hey

972
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:23,880
Speaker 2: you b e k?

973
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 6: Hey you be e k. So he was.

974
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 1: He was on the like these are national broadcast games.

975
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 2: Old Yankee do an NBC Game of the Weeks with

976
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:35,840
Speaker 2: Bob Costas, so you get to hear Bob Costas just

977
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:39,840
Speaker 2: basically treating each broadcast like it's it's time to talk baseball.

978
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 2: And remember in nineteen forty eight when this thing happened

979
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:45,320
Speaker 2: and Tony Kubeck has to break in and go and

980
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 2: it takes two to one pitch to right field. It's

981
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:51,719
Speaker 2: it's incredible how Costas is just I love the guy,

982
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:54,279
Speaker 2: but just give it a break with the MeTL op

983
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 2: for a second and tell me if he's gonna pick

984
00:46:57,640 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 2: this guy, if he's even got a pick off move

985
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:02,279
Speaker 2: to be. I'm getting upset about a Tiger's White Sox

986
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 2: game from nineteen eighty five, so clearly I'm doing five.

987
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, hold it up. How is the substack life the

988
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 1: NBA newsletter? You've been doing it for a couple of

989
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 1: years now, how is.

990
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 2: That going it's going wonderfully. I encourage anyone who just

991
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:19,400
Speaker 2: wants to think about writing and writing only or podcasting

992
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:22,439
Speaker 2: as it turns out, to do that. It just gets

993
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,760
Speaker 2: so right about whatever the heck I wants, and people

994
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 2: so far are dipping their toe and then join it.

995
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 2: And the last dance I was going to do I

996
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 2: have been doing. We're getting back to doing each of

997
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 2: Jordan's return games in ninety five, just to kind of

998
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 2: familiarize ourself with the era because I'm learning new things

999
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:41,760
Speaker 2: myself because I was not paying much attention to basketball

1000
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 2: ninety four ninety five until we came back. So we're

1001
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 2: finding weird, stupid anecdotes of Whipie Dam Doo and Derek

1002
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 2: Coleman and all that. So we've got that going on.

1003
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:53,759
Speaker 2: And the last dance interrupted that to talk about more

1004
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 2: ninety stuff. At some point, I promise I'll write a

1005
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 2: column where I'll go I don't know about basketball is

1006
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 2: coming back soon bad, I don't know, But I don't know.

1007
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 2: We'll see when it happens. Right now, it's a trip.

1008
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:08,920
Speaker 2: It's a nostalgia trip, and a nostalgia trip alone. And

1009
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 2: I'm okay with that because as Addie Hoffman said, nostalgia

1010
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 2: is a mild form of depression, and it's okay to

1011
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:15,760
Speaker 2: feel these things sometimes.

1012
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:19,279
Speaker 1: Well said, for sure to marry the two together here

1013
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 1: talking a little basketball, talking a little baseball. Do you

1014
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:25,280
Speaker 1: think Michael Jordan could have made the major leagues in baseball?

1015
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:26,320
Speaker 6: What do you think?

1016
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:29,319
Speaker 2: I think he would have been promoted to the minor

1017
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:32,880
Speaker 2: leagues because Jerry ryan Storf was his boss. Would he

1018
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 2: have been major league caliber? I believe so. I mean

1019
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 2: that's quite it's again, work ethic, work ethic. I don't know.

1020
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:44,239
Speaker 2: I didn't watch much baseball in nineteen ninety seven. Was

1021
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 2: it any good? I'm gonna say no. I'm gonna say

1022
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 2: Michael Jordan could Again it's it's I guess you get

1023
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 2: this like last gasp as an athlete to reformat those

1024
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:57,359
Speaker 2: muscles and learn a new skill. And maybe he had

1025
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:02,319
Speaker 2: that art going for him. Uh, it's I don't what part.

1026
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:05,479
Speaker 2: He played well in the winter leagues, but they didn't

1027
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 2: ever say anything about him hitting off speed pitches. You

1028
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:11,399
Speaker 2: ever learn that? Does it ever matter? Because Cherry Ryan

1029
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 2: stores your boss, and you're going to make the team

1030
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:14,880
Speaker 2: at some point. So I think he could have a

1031
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 2: major league level. Yes, I think he could have got

1032
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 2: him a you know, four hundred five hundred ops at

1033
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:22,840
Speaker 2: the major league level. And then fine, I'm not gonna

1034
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 2: get in the business of doubting Michael Jordan because as

1035
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 2: soon as I take these earbuds out, he's going to

1036
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 2: be at my front door. Wanted to go to them, and

1037
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:31,360
Speaker 2: I'm at to explain to him that they're all closed

1038
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 2: right now. Man, we can just go to a field

1039
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:34,960
Speaker 2: or something. But I don't even I haven't thrown a

1040
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:35,720
Speaker 2: ball in years.

1041
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 6: I was gonna say, did you play baseball?

1042
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:41,960
Speaker 2: I played baseball until they told me to go away.

1043
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 2: Sure I had. I went out so fourteen. Yeah, I

1044
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:50,439
Speaker 2: had a huge highlight in eighth grade where I took

1045
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 2: Austin's I had a three run triple off Austin Smith

1046
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:56,520
Speaker 2: using my Walt Herniac go to the other open stance

1047
00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:00,080
Speaker 2: Charlie Lou Chicago White Sox style in the three we

1048
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 2: run triple off of them, and you know, because there's

1049
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 2: a bunch of fourteen year old's playing back baseball. Of course,

1050
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:08,880
Speaker 2: I ended up stealing home because some sort of something happened,

1051
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 2: something exploded on a wild pitch. So I had a

1052
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 2: baseball highlight, and you know I went out like Jordan

1053
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 2: up until by watching Wizards Come Back in nineteen ninety eight,

1054
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 2: when right before I got contact lenses, I decided to

1055
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 2: take in an intramural softball game in front of a

1056
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 2: bunch of girls, a whole lot of girls, and oh

1057
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:32,480
Speaker 2: oh with city with City would right the right to

1058
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:33,040
Speaker 2: the eye doctor.

1059
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 1: After that, Wow, so you were up there, you're a

1060
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:39,840
Speaker 1: swinging blind.

1061
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:41,839
Speaker 6: Is that what you're saying, Well, you.

1062
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:45,319
Speaker 2: Know it's I come on, I could have done better.

1063
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:46,839
Speaker 2: I could have shortened the grip. I could have gone

1064
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:48,440
Speaker 2: to the opposite field. I could have tried not to

1065
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 2: be a hero. We got all freshmen year to explain

1066
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 2: ourselves to these young women. We don't let to need

1067
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:56,360
Speaker 2: to let the pole do our talking. We got a

1068
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:58,439
Speaker 2: let our entire five star game doing the talk.

1069
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:01,919
Speaker 1: So you're yeah, you're a real uh, you're a real

1070
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:03,959
Speaker 1: rob deer out there. You were just swinging for the fence.

1071
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:06,759
Speaker 2: Yeah that particular days. Yeah, total INKAVELI job.

1072
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 4: I imagine you had the beautiful Walt Herniac high finished though,

1073
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 4: I mean, oh yeah, signature of the nineties.

1074
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 5: White.

1075
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:17,319
Speaker 2: It's very dramatic, it's it's obscenely dramatic for such an

1076
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 2: completely ineffective baseball player and yet a surprisingly potent softball player.

1077
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 2: In my one game playing it recently as an adult,

1078
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 2: I also went out on a on a high note

1079
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:29,799
Speaker 2: with that. I'd go for a fly ball in man,

1080
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 2: possibly cracked a rip, I don't know, never got it

1081
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 2: checked out, but impressed all the boys. So it's put

1082
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 2: in your life. It's about impressing the.

1083
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 6: Boys, right, right, that's true, that's true.

1084
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:44,839
Speaker 2: So how long ago was that game that was two

1085
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 2: thy seventeen up in the fields of the wild of Detroit,

1086
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:52,240
Speaker 2: right outside the stadium on some cold ground, cold ground,

1087
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:55,320
Speaker 2: Al Oliver will be crown. I really hope Al Oliver

1088
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:56,280
Speaker 2: is a tiger.

1089
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 1: So we are now reaching the part of the podcast

1090
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 1: where some of the references you guys are making are

1091
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:08,120
Speaker 1: going completely over my head. But Kelly Is, this has

1092
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:10,880
Speaker 1: been honestly a blast catching up with you here, and

1093
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:12,440
Speaker 1: I'm so happy we had you on to.

1094
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 6: Talk about game six of the movie.

1095
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 1: They're talk about the last dance to talk about your

1096
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:17,239
Speaker 1: baseball career more than anything, and I'm so happy to

1097
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 1: hear that it's going great at the second arrangement. Highly

1098
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:23,280
Speaker 1: encourage everybody to go and you know, get a little flavor,

1099
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:25,840
Speaker 1: get a little taste of that second arrangement. What Kelly's

1100
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:28,480
Speaker 1: right in there, the podcast that Kelly's doing, He's got

1101
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 1: those tasty little guitar riffs, and that's exactly what I'm

1102
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:42,320
Speaker 1: talking about. TSA dot substack dot com. That's the easiest

1103
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 1: way to get to Kelly's site, the second arrangement. Give

1104
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 1: it a go and sign up. If you're loving what

1105
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:48,960
Speaker 1: you're reading and loving what you're hearing, how could you

1106
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 1: not be loving hearing that? I mean, was that just

1107
00:52:51,480 --> 00:53:00,120
Speaker 1: comes off? That's so natural to you, Kelly With a pumbucker.

1108
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:01,839
Speaker 2: It's just a position. That's my least favorite position. Here's

1109
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:13,960
Speaker 2: the humpbucker? Are you Bucker's real fuzzy?

1110
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:16,759
Speaker 1: Are you playing? Are you playing anywhere right now? Are

1111
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 1: you playing with a band?

1112
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:21,480
Speaker 2: I have not played with a band since two thousand

1113
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 2: and three. And really that was just myself and some

1114
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:28,359
Speaker 2: friends getting together, jamming poorly for forty minutes and then

1115
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:30,319
Speaker 2: going down to a bar talk about how great we

1116
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:30,839
Speaker 2: were going to be.

1117
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:34,680
Speaker 6: Sneaking of bars. What was the name of that?

1118
00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:36,960
Speaker 1: I think it was a jazz bar, right that we

1119
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:41,239
Speaker 1: went to in Chicago's Green mil Oh.

1120
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:43,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's iconic, isn't it.

1121
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:46,840
Speaker 2: It's iconic. There's a Light of Day featuring Michael J.

1122
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:49,720
Speaker 2: Fox and Joan Jett was filmed there. Some John Cusack

1123
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 2: movies were filmed there, but it's best known for being

1124
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 2: the al Capone Bar where al Capone would keep a

1125
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:57,879
Speaker 2: seat that you out of your right side you could

1126
00:53:57,920 --> 00:53:59,800
Speaker 2: see one exit and out of your front side you

1127
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:01,719
Speaker 2: can see the whole live sit in the back of it.

1128
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:04,359
Speaker 2: You had the band plane, so you really didn't miss

1129
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 2: anything orally, that's oral with an a and it was

1130
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:09,279
Speaker 2: really the best seat in the house. But it was

1131
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 2: also you know, if you're going to get shot, the

1132
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:12,799
Speaker 2: best seat in the house. So it's just a great,

1133
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 2: beautiful jazz bar that I encourage everyone to go to

1134
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:17,840
Speaker 2: and it's really nicely and listen to kick butt music

1135
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:18,640
Speaker 2: after hours.

1136
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:21,839
Speaker 1: But Craig me if I'm wrong, guys, hot dogs is

1137
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:25,399
Speaker 1: no longer in existence, right the the unbelievable gourmet hot

1138
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:26,840
Speaker 1: dog place. Is that place closed?

1139
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 2: Yes? He he was like, I'm very popular and I'm

1140
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:34,720
Speaker 2: just going to stop this now, and he just again

1141
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:37,320
Speaker 2: he liked Jordan my Man went out on top done

1142
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:41,480
Speaker 2: so there's no longer. He certainly did. They lined up

1143
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 2: like his last day was a Friday, and the people

1144
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:46,680
Speaker 2: that ate on that Friday lined up on Monday. So

1145
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:50,880
Speaker 2: that was That was the one of the biggest misconnections

1146
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:52,840
Speaker 2: of my entire life because with it one of the

1147
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 2: times or maybe v time I went to hot dogs.

1148
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 2: You guys, remember Mark Marin was in the line with us,

1149
00:54:57,560 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 2: and it was one of the first couple of months

1150
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:02,200
Speaker 2: he start part of his podcast and I knew that,

1151
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 2: but I'd never heard it before. And I could have

1152
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 2: any of us could have gone, Hey, giants in this industry,

1153
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:12,719
Speaker 2: this is skeets and test and eventually trey giants in

1154
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 2: another industry, please meet each other and keep each other

1155
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:18,760
Speaker 2: in mind. But now we just thought we had sausage

1156
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:19,279
Speaker 2: on our minds.

1157
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:21,160
Speaker 5: What do you Yeah, they'll.

1158
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:23,480
Speaker 4: Make a ten part documentary about that line. Eventually, it'll

1159
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:25,360
Speaker 4: be it'll be fine. You know, people will be like,

1160
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:26,319
Speaker 4: I wish we could have had a.

1161
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:28,720
Speaker 5: Little bit more of that guy standing three people back.

1162
00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:32,320
Speaker 2: I actually Atlanta del Rey was in that line.

1163
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:35,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna say, I actually have final say

1164
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:38,880
Speaker 1: on that documentary. So we won't see that until twenty

1165
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:42,840
Speaker 1: two years of the time. Kelly again, thank you so

1166
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:45,360
Speaker 1: much man for coming on the second arrangement. Guys TSA

1167
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:47,920
Speaker 1: dot substack dot com and you can follow Kelly at

1168
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:52,960
Speaker 1: Katie on Hoops on Twitter A hilarious follow, especially just

1169
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:55,240
Speaker 1: I mean, forget the basketball takes, just for the sweet

1170
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:58,920
Speaker 1: guitar licks. Maybe you could take us out with one, Katie.

1171
00:55:58,680 --> 00:55:59,799
Speaker 2: Let me try, Let me go to the next PI,

1172
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:11,560
Speaker 2: little softer.

1173
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:13,960
Speaker 6: Embrace the day people.

1174
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:14,520
Speaker 2: I