1
00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:06,200
Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound On

2
00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:09,400
Speaker 1: the Girl. How about to sign. It's not just about today,

3
00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:13,000
Speaker 1: It's about tomorrow. It's about delivering progress and prosperity to

4
00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:15,680
Speaker 1: American family. Starting this fall, You're gonna be able to

5
00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:18,480
Speaker 1: go into a pharmacy and by hearing aids over the counter,

6
00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:23,000
Speaker 1: that means a lot cheaper hearing aids. Bloomberg Sound On Politics,

7
00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:27,720
Speaker 1: Policy and Perspective from DC's top Names today offers further

8
00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:32,319
Speaker 1: proof that's the soul America's vibrant, the future of America's right.

9
00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,160
Speaker 1: This is our great task and we will prevail. Bloomberg

10
00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:41,680
Speaker 1: Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio, Bill Gates,

11
00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:45,400
Speaker 1: Larry Summers, who didn't play a role in getting this

12
00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:50,800
Speaker 1: major tax energy prescription drug pricing bill across the finish line.

13
00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:54,360
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk today with Jen de Louis at Bloomberg News, who,

14
00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,920
Speaker 1: along with the colleague, broke a big story detailing everything

15
00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:00,920
Speaker 1: that happened, including Bill Gates his role in winning over

16
00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:04,120
Speaker 1: Joe Mansion. I am not Bill Gates, I'm not Joe Matthew.

17
00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:07,720
Speaker 1: I'm Jack Fitzpatrick from Bloomberg Government, stepping in today hosting

18
00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:10,880
Speaker 1: in Joe Matthews Stead, We're going to talk to Congressman

19
00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:14,920
Speaker 1: Adrian Smith, Republican from Nebraska about what it is Republicans

20
00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:18,160
Speaker 1: want to accomplish on economic policy in the next Congress

21
00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:20,360
Speaker 1: or is the next Congress two years of just trying

22
00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:24,320
Speaker 1: to stop President Biden. We've also got Roger Fisk, Obama

23
00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:28,800
Speaker 1: administration alum over at New Day Strategy joining us, along

24
00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:32,360
Speaker 1: with Bloomberg Politics contributor Rick Davis on the phone. Now

25
00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:37,120
Speaker 1: joining us as Congressman Adrian Smith, Republican from Nebraska. Congressman,

26
00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:39,880
Speaker 1: I understand you are one of the top people to

27
00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:42,280
Speaker 1: talk to for one reason. You're you're gunning for the

28
00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:44,240
Speaker 1: top spot in the next Congress on the Ways and

29
00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:48,560
Speaker 1: Means Committee. I believe I have one big broad question

30
00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:52,200
Speaker 1: for someone like you as we hear of the expectations

31
00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:56,960
Speaker 1: of a Republican Congress in the eighth Congress. Uh, should

32
00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:01,360
Speaker 1: we be looking for Republicans to try to just stop

33
00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:06,000
Speaker 1: President Biden at every opportunity or are there fiscal economic

34
00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:11,519
Speaker 1: priorities that are feasible accomplishments that Republicans can actually anticipate

35
00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:14,200
Speaker 1: if they take the House. What what are you gunning

36
00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:18,120
Speaker 1: for on fiscal policy in the next Congress. Well, it's

37
00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:20,480
Speaker 1: always easy to just say state what the problems are,

38
00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,600
Speaker 1: not focus on solutions. So we really need to focus

39
00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:26,480
Speaker 1: on solutions, whether we have the White House or not.

40
00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:29,800
Speaker 1: I think ultimately we need to put pressure on President Biden,

41
00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,920
Speaker 1: who claimed to be a centrist in open to Republican ideas.

42
00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:37,360
Speaker 1: Let's give him that opportunity. But I think you know,

43
00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,160
Speaker 1: when it looks to you know the barriers when it

44
00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:42,919
Speaker 1: comes to the barriers of getting people back into the workforce.

45
00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,520
Speaker 1: We have these shortages, the workforce shortages that lead to

46
00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:50,480
Speaker 1: supply chain shortages, all of these things leading to inflation.

47
00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:52,960
Speaker 1: There are so many things that that we need to

48
00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:56,480
Speaker 1: we can focus on. I think we literally can focus

49
00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:59,200
Speaker 1: on these things to help get our economy back on track.

50
00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,679
Speaker 1: There a proposal that you think would be realistic that

51
00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,800
Speaker 1: Republicans and the Biden administration would potentially agree on on

52
00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:10,400
Speaker 1: getting people back into the workforce. I think so when

53
00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:12,640
Speaker 1: you look at some of the federal programs that we have,

54
00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:16,000
Speaker 1: these a tax pair dollars are going to places that

55
00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:19,160
Speaker 1: I think a lot of reasonable people would say, hey,

56
00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:21,520
Speaker 1: we can do better than that, and you know, focus

57
00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,560
Speaker 1: on folks who need it the most, but also to

58
00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:29,800
Speaker 1: get folks into a plan of returning to self sufficiency

59
00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:34,320
Speaker 1: rather than just remaining on the sidelines of our economy. Um. So,

60
00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:38,080
Speaker 1: if that's an option for working together with the Biden administration,

61
00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:40,440
Speaker 1: I do have to admit there's one thing in particular

62
00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:43,880
Speaker 1: I'm curious about that seems like a potential standoff. There

63
00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:48,040
Speaker 1: is going to be a debt limit deadline next year.

64
00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:51,040
Speaker 1: Bipartisan Policy Center estimates that deadline is going to come

65
00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:53,760
Speaker 1: up around the third quarter of next calendar year. I'm

66
00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:58,240
Speaker 1: curious if looking back to the debt limit standoff between

67
00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:01,680
Speaker 1: Republicans who had taken Congress and the Obama administration, are

68
00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,880
Speaker 1: we going to see Republicans use that deadline to try

69
00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:09,560
Speaker 1: to demand uh some something on the economy from the

70
00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,600
Speaker 1: Biden administration. Is at a point of leverage, well, I

71
00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:15,320
Speaker 1: think it's important to realize, you know, what can we

72
00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:19,760
Speaker 1: do that's reasonable and effective, that that can get us

73
00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:21,960
Speaker 1: headed in the right direction. We won't get everything we

74
00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:25,279
Speaker 1: want right away. But I also think it's important that

75
00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:29,040
Speaker 1: that the president understand that, you know, we we cannot

76
00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:34,279
Speaker 1: just continue without making any changes whatsoever, continue in the

77
00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:37,760
Speaker 1: direction of this spending that I think has been very problematic.

78
00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:42,240
Speaker 1: The American people expect us to to get that under control.

79
00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,640
Speaker 1: But again, that won't be all that won't we won't

80
00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:48,160
Speaker 1: be able to address all of that with one vote

81
00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:52,520
Speaker 1: with the debt saving I think it's very important that

82
00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,320
Speaker 1: we as legislators keep in mind that we don't want

83
00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:59,960
Speaker 1: innocent people to be harmed with an impass in Washington,

84
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,720
Speaker 1: and Uh, you know too, I've seen it happen in

85
00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:07,600
Speaker 1: the past where people who have done everything they were

86
00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:10,080
Speaker 1: supposed to do to save for the future, plan for

87
00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:14,719
Speaker 1: the future that they're they're furrowing. Ky for example, would

88
00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:17,919
Speaker 1: would see a decrease in value because of some bickering

89
00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:21,279
Speaker 1: in Washington that I think has been avoidable in the past.

90
00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,480
Speaker 1: Let's make sure we keep our eye and keep our

91
00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:28,960
Speaker 1: focus moving forward now with strategy to to make the

92
00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,600
Speaker 1: right reforms but also not do damage. Tis and folks, Well,

93
00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:37,760
Speaker 1: that's an interesting answer. And your hesitance to uh pick

94
00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:40,320
Speaker 1: huge fights that could damage the economy, I think is

95
00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:44,760
Speaker 1: that's an important topic. I'm also curious about, uh, the

96
00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:48,080
Speaker 1: presumed stop gap measure that's going to be needed to

97
00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:52,680
Speaker 1: fund the government as of September. I know the Freedom

98
00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:56,680
Speaker 1: Caucus members in the House are are saying, extend that

99
00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:00,640
Speaker 1: don't take a funding a government funding deal even in

100
00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,320
Speaker 1: the lame duck session. What do you think about that

101
00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,680
Speaker 1: strategy that the Freedom Caucus members are are raising, saying

102
00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,280
Speaker 1: we should just use a stopgap measure to freeze government

103
00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:16,240
Speaker 1: funding well into next year. Well, they the continuing resolutions

104
00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:19,920
Speaker 1: can be frustrating, and a lot of stakeholders offer a

105
00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:22,640
Speaker 1: good reasons why we should avoid this. But I do

106
00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:25,400
Speaker 1: think that the dynamics as we head into the election,

107
00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:30,520
Speaker 1: you know, it makes me nervous what the far left

108
00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,520
Speaker 1: and their priorities have been, you know, so there's there's

109
00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,640
Speaker 1: no telling what they would put into an appropriations process

110
00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,080
Speaker 1: that they would have the votes for right now. But really,

111
00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,240
Speaker 1: as we head into the November election then ultimately I

112
00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:47,240
Speaker 1: hope a new majority in the House. There there are

113
00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:50,040
Speaker 1: things that we need to get done that the American

114
00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:54,160
Speaker 1: people also expect us to get done that are very

115
00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:58,800
Speaker 1: inconsistent with what the Pelosi priorities are right now. Is

116
00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:01,599
Speaker 1: the I R S. One of those areas. I understand

117
00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,480
Speaker 1: Republicans are talking a lot about the number of the

118
00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,160
Speaker 1: seven thousand I R S employees that they're planning to

119
00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:12,840
Speaker 1: hire under this uh just signed into law bill. Or

120
00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:15,520
Speaker 1: what is the plan on the Republican side. Is there

121
00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:18,040
Speaker 1: going to be a proposal to take that money back?

122
00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:20,360
Speaker 1: Is there gonna be a proposal to shift priorities from

123
00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,640
Speaker 1: enforcement to customer service? What can we look for from

124
00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:26,200
Speaker 1: Republicans who I know are are not happy about the

125
00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,880
Speaker 1: I r S provisions in this recently enacted law, right,

126
00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:34,200
Speaker 1: I think we could drastically reduce the number of funds,

127
00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:36,200
Speaker 1: the amount of funds going to the I r S,

128
00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:40,360
Speaker 1: but definitely start with customer service. This is a fundamental situation,

129
00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:42,880
Speaker 1: you know right now, what is it? One in ten

130
00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:47,240
Speaker 1: phone calls are answered at the I r S. And

131
00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,600
Speaker 1: you know, people people, they don't want to deal with

132
00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:55,240
Speaker 1: the hassles of the bureaucratic tax code and these agencies.

133
00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,680
Speaker 1: They want to get it done. Let's let's let's allow

134
00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:00,560
Speaker 1: them to do that. But we need to provide some

135
00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:03,240
Speaker 1: customer service, and so I think there's some interest in that.

136
00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:06,960
Speaker 1: But ultimately, you know, the numbers being what they are,

137
00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:09,280
Speaker 1: and the Democrats are trying to say if the middle

138
00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:14,360
Speaker 1: class won't face more audits, it's impossible given the language

139
00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:18,320
Speaker 1: of the legislation and the realities of how these agencies

140
00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,320
Speaker 1: and breaucracies work. You know, going back to the two

141
00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:25,960
Speaker 1: thousand ten levels of of audits alone, which would be inclusive,

142
00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,520
Speaker 1: here we would see a lot, a lot of folks

143
00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,120
Speaker 1: in the middle class being audited. And keep in mind

144
00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:34,160
Speaker 1: this this would include folks who already paid what they owed,

145
00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:37,480
Speaker 1: but they would incur a huge expense to once again

146
00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:42,199
Speaker 1: prove it. Right now, speaking of that bill, are you

147
00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:46,000
Speaker 1: and are Republicans in any way encourage I know there's

148
00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:47,719
Speaker 1: a million things in that bill that you don't like,

149
00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,440
Speaker 1: but according to the CBO, it would their unofficial score,

150
00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:53,800
Speaker 1: this would reduce the deficit by about three hundred billion

151
00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:59,000
Speaker 1: dollars over the next decade. Do you see anything positive

152
00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:01,679
Speaker 1: in what we've seen in the deficit coming down from

153
00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:04,280
Speaker 1: those extremely high peaks of recent years? Is there a

154
00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:08,719
Speaker 1: silver lining on it from Republicans perspective on the deficit. Well,

155
00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:12,079
Speaker 1: I'm open to various ideas to reduce the deficit, but

156
00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,040
Speaker 1: I you know, they're the Democrats are claiming that adding

157
00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:17,760
Speaker 1: all these auditors at the I R S we all

158
00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:20,599
Speaker 1: of a sudden generate more revenue to the government. I

159
00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:24,360
Speaker 1: hesitate to think that those numbers are will actually be

160
00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:30,600
Speaker 1: what is projected. So I'm I'm just hesitant in many

161
00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:34,160
Speaker 1: ways to say that, you know, raising taxes and spending

162
00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,079
Speaker 1: more money will lead to will lead to a reduction

163
00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:40,200
Speaker 1: in the deficit. Right when we talk about the deficit,

164
00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:45,439
Speaker 1: one I think big picture question facing Republicans is to

165
00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:48,880
Speaker 1: what extent they go for the I guess Paul ryan

166
00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:53,360
Speaker 1: approach of focusing on social security, focusing on medicare the

167
00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:57,160
Speaker 1: big mandatory spending issues that are projected to increase UH

168
00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:01,959
Speaker 1: into the foreseeable future versus the discretionary stuff. Do you

169
00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:04,959
Speaker 1: have a stance on if Republicans take control, should the

170
00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:10,520
Speaker 1: focus be limiting funding for your usual government agencies or

171
00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:15,120
Speaker 1: does there need to be some sort of big entitlement project. Well,

172
00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:17,880
Speaker 1: when you look at the drivers of our debts and

173
00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:22,480
Speaker 1: our deficits, UH, it is the mandatory side of funding

174
00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:26,559
Speaker 1: the discretionary which we've had a lot of debates about

175
00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:29,000
Speaker 1: over the last several years. And I think we when

176
00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:31,080
Speaker 1: we had the majority before, we actually move the need

177
00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:35,400
Speaker 1: along the discretionary side, but that didn't really impact the

178
00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:40,559
Speaker 1: debt and deficits like we need to address. So the

179
00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,520
Speaker 1: mandatory side yes, I think when you look at offering

180
00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:47,760
Speaker 1: seniors within Medicare, for example, Medicare advantage and seniors having

181
00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:51,200
Speaker 1: more choices, there is evidence that that actually drives down

182
00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:53,559
Speaker 1: the cost of healthcare, so we so I think I

183
00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:57,120
Speaker 1: see this as an opportunity for the feature to employ

184
00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:00,640
Speaker 1: more of these concepts across Medicare, so that seniors have choices,

185
00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:05,560
Speaker 1: the care is available, providers feel like they've they their

186
00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:10,079
Speaker 1: perspective is valued, and can engage in this process rather

187
00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:12,439
Speaker 1: than just a standard fee for service that I know

188
00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:16,320
Speaker 1: the Democrats want everyone to receive healthcare through the standard

189
00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:19,199
Speaker 1: fee for service. That I don't think they would like

190
00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:22,240
Speaker 1: to result for that right in our last twenty seconds,

191
00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:26,640
Speaker 1: Are you touching a political third rail by saying that? Though? Well,

192
00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:28,840
Speaker 1: I mean when you look at the popularity of Medicare

193
00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:32,400
Speaker 1: advantage among the seniors who haven't, I think it's a

194
00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:37,679
Speaker 1: great example where choices for individuals lead to cost savings

195
00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,280
Speaker 1: and consumers in general are better served by that, especially

196
00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,720
Speaker 1: as relates the future of our country in a fiscal manner.

197
00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:47,320
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Congressman. As Congressman Adrian Smith, Republican

198
00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,679
Speaker 1: of Nebraska, on a wide variety of economic issues and

199
00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,120
Speaker 1: where the Republican Party stands on them. We're gonna go

200
00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,679
Speaker 1: to the panel next Roger Fisk and Rick Davis, and

201
00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,240
Speaker 1: of course we're talking later to Jen de Louis about

202
00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:01,080
Speaker 1: that big story on Bill Gates's in this major bill.

203
00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:10,000
Speaker 1: I'm Jack Fitzpatrick. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg

204
00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:16,520
Speaker 1: Sound On on Bloomberg Radio. Republicans are not fans of

205
00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:20,040
Speaker 1: the I R S components of this major tax, energy

206
00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,400
Speaker 1: and drug pricing bill the President Biden just signed into

207
00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:26,360
Speaker 1: law about four pm today. You heard it from Congressman

208
00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:30,199
Speaker 1: Adrian Smith. I'm Jack Fitzpatrick from Bloomberg Government, stepping in

209
00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:33,440
Speaker 1: today for Joe Matthew. Let's bring in the panel today.

210
00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:37,520
Speaker 1: We've got Roger Fisk, the Obama campaign and administration alum

211
00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:40,760
Speaker 1: who's at the president of New Day Strategy. And of

212
00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:44,640
Speaker 1: course we've got Rick Davis, Bloomberg Politics contributor. Guys, happy

213
00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:47,120
Speaker 1: to have you on. I wanna go back to a

214
00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,880
Speaker 1: couple of points that Congressman Smith made. He stands out

215
00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:54,439
Speaker 1: as I think a pretty level headed person. He does

216
00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:58,480
Speaker 1: not want Republicans to pick a major fight over the

217
00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,959
Speaker 1: debt limit next year, even if they win control of

218
00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:04,439
Speaker 1: the House and or Senate. Uh. That seems to be

219
00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:08,000
Speaker 1: a difference that he has with some maybe Freedom Caucus members,

220
00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:10,880
Speaker 1: in a difference compared to if you look at the

221
00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:14,319
Speaker 1: Obama years. I'm curious how much of a redux of

222
00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:17,880
Speaker 1: the Obama versus the Freedom Caucus fights we can expect

223
00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:22,200
Speaker 1: from President Biden if Republicans do have a big year. Uh. Roger,

224
00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:25,360
Speaker 1: I'm curious what you make of of that answer and

225
00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:29,200
Speaker 1: what we should expect if Republicans do win the House

226
00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:32,199
Speaker 1: and or Senate. How much of a showdown should we

227
00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:36,240
Speaker 1: be expecting on economic issues and how explosive does it

228
00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:40,320
Speaker 1: get on something like the debt limit. Well, first off, Jack,

229
00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:42,200
Speaker 1: thank you so much for having me, and I love

230
00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:46,000
Speaker 1: being on with Rick, and congratulations on a very level headed,

231
00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:49,720
Speaker 1: to use your term, conversation with Congressman Smith. I found

232
00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,760
Speaker 1: myself somewhat nostalgic for the late nineties and the early

233
00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:57,520
Speaker 1: os when I was just a shiny, optimistic Senate staffer,

234
00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:00,319
Speaker 1: and I never would have thought back then, during Clinton

235
00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,000
Speaker 1: impeachment and things like that, that that would be somewhat

236
00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,320
Speaker 1: of a collegial time in in on the Hill compared

237
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:10,520
Speaker 1: to where we are now. But first off, it's use

238
00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:13,240
Speaker 1: the word if. It is it is increasingly every day

239
00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:15,800
Speaker 1: it's becoming more of an if that the Republicans will

240
00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:18,560
Speaker 1: take especially at the House. I think there their chances

241
00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:22,200
Speaker 1: of taking the Senate are are fading actually quite quickly. Um.

242
00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:25,400
Speaker 1: But you know, you don't need to look any further

243
00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:29,520
Speaker 1: than what they're already saying, UM in terms of the

244
00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:32,240
Speaker 1: confrontational approach that they're going to take to the to

245
00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:36,360
Speaker 1: President Biden, and then as we all know, the dead

246
00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:41,320
Speaker 1: ceiling and things like that, are are very almost ritualistic

247
00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,520
Speaker 1: in their posturing and things like that. So that's a

248
00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,560
Speaker 1: long way of saying, yes, we can expect that, and

249
00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:49,720
Speaker 1: I think we can expect it with an extra dose

250
00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,000
Speaker 1: of hot sauce on it, should the Republicans take control

251
00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:55,840
Speaker 1: of especially the House. That that is not a terribly

252
00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,640
Speaker 1: surprising answer, And I think it's fair to put this

253
00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:02,120
Speaker 1: in perspective that Congressman Smith, I think sort of stands

254
00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:04,880
Speaker 1: apart as I said that that's the the very calm,

255
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,920
Speaker 1: cool and collected Republicans stance. There are other members calling

256
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,120
Speaker 1: for for bigger fights, even sooner than the dead limit

257
00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:13,720
Speaker 1: deadline next year, as soon as September thirty, the government

258
00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:17,200
Speaker 1: funding measure. Rick, I'm curious what you make when somebody

259
00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,360
Speaker 1: like Congressman Smith says, Look, the reality is we have

260
00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:23,560
Speaker 1: to talk about mandatory spending. The two big parts of

261
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:27,600
Speaker 1: mandatory spending or Social Security and Medicare. The congressman did

262
00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:31,080
Speaker 1: not think that he was seeing something terribly unpopular on

263
00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:32,960
Speaker 1: the point you made about Medicare advantage. But do you

264
00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:36,000
Speaker 1: how much political risk do you see if Republicans go

265
00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:40,440
Speaker 1: back to really focusing on calling for those mandatory spending cuts. Rick, Yeah,

266
00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:43,040
Speaker 1: I think that'll be a really incredible fight. Um. You know,

267
00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:47,320
Speaker 1: the public has been sort of muted with this sense

268
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,640
Speaker 1: that there's had an unlimited supply of healthcare dollars coming

269
00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:53,960
Speaker 1: out of Washington, whether it's been for these entitlements or

270
00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,760
Speaker 1: for battling COVID. When you look at the trillions dollars

271
00:15:57,840 --> 00:15:59,800
Speaker 1: that have passed through in the last few years a

272
00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:05,280
Speaker 1: round healthcare, UH, starting really with the Obamacare legislation. It's

273
00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:07,880
Speaker 1: just something that people have gotten used to having. Right now.

274
00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:12,840
Speaker 1: This is a a situation where, realistically, I think UH,

275
00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:17,160
Speaker 1: level headed guys like Roger are like uh Adrian Smith

276
00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:20,280
Speaker 1: the UH I had to say levelheaded because everyone else

277
00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:24,000
Speaker 1: has today, UM really wants to dial back some of this.

278
00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:28,400
Speaker 1: We can't let government completely be taken over by entitlement spending.

279
00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:32,200
Speaker 1: But UM finding a counterparty, finding other people within his

280
00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:35,440
Speaker 1: own party to have a serious conversation. It's going to

281
00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,640
Speaker 1: be increasingly difficult as we get to the elections, and

282
00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:42,720
Speaker 1: and then the outcome, as Roger says, will determine whether

283
00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:44,840
Speaker 1: or not he's looking for partners in the majority of

284
00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:49,280
Speaker 1: the minority. Right Another, I guess more immediate point on healthcare,

285
00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,680
Speaker 1: On the cost of healthcare, Uh, pretty big news today,

286
00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:56,120
Speaker 1: the FDA decided to allow hearing aids to be sold

287
00:16:56,200 --> 00:17:00,000
Speaker 1: over the counter without a prescription. Brian Deese, the direct

288
00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,600
Speaker 1: to the National Economic Council, discussed this today on Bloomberg

289
00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:06,119
Speaker 1: TV on Balance of Power. Here's here here's what he

290
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,680
Speaker 1: had to say about that announcement. Starting this fall, you're

291
00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:10,959
Speaker 1: gonna be able to go into a pharmacy and by

292
00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:13,800
Speaker 1: hearing aids over the counter, that means a lot cheaper

293
00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:16,040
Speaker 1: hearing aids. You could see hearing aids for a pair

294
00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,119
Speaker 1: of those hearing rates come down on average by almost

295
00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,920
Speaker 1: three thousand dollars a pair. Roger I I'm curious. I

296
00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,720
Speaker 1: almost see this as you know Democrats saying we have

297
00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:30,399
Speaker 1: had our major legislative victories. Now, uh, there were members

298
00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,359
Speaker 1: who wanted hearing aids and vision and dental to be

299
00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:35,879
Speaker 1: covered under Medicare as part of that major bill that

300
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:41,520
Speaker 1: got pulled out. Is this a strategy of agencies and

301
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:44,040
Speaker 1: executive orders trying to fill in the gaps on other

302
00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:46,280
Speaker 1: key priorities. What do you make of this? Uh, this

303
00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,639
Speaker 1: news today on hearing aids, It's it's great news. I

304
00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:53,480
Speaker 1: think more hearing means more, you know, communication, and ideally

305
00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:59,200
Speaker 1: more communications means more understanding. Had had this been generated

306
00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,520
Speaker 1: in a vacuum, or at least within just the confines

307
00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,119
Speaker 1: of the Biden administration, I would get the premise of

308
00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:08,320
Speaker 1: your question. But I'm inspired by Congressman Smith, So let

309
00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:09,960
Speaker 1: me see if I can, if I can try to

310
00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:14,200
Speaker 1: match his tone. The f d A M allowing this

311
00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:18,640
Speaker 1: to happen actually came about from legislation filed by Senator

312
00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:21,240
Speaker 1: Warren and grass Lely, So first take a second to

313
00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:25,760
Speaker 1: think about that, and then signed by President Trump. So, um,

314
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:29,040
Speaker 1: it actually predates the Biden administration, and I think it's

315
00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:31,560
Speaker 1: just it came along at a at a good time,

316
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,960
Speaker 1: But to to leap ahead to talk about Medicare party

317
00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:38,720
Speaker 1: or advantage, which was started under the Bush administration. So

318
00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:42,679
Speaker 1: much of our healthcare costs are kind of these archaic barriers.

319
00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:45,880
Speaker 1: Uh that, for example, in the hearing aid thing didn't

320
00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,159
Speaker 1: allow people to get them without a prescription, and in

321
00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,920
Speaker 1: the Medicare party context wouldn't allow the federal government to

322
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:56,040
Speaker 1: negotiate bulk purchases. So clearing the decks of these things

323
00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:57,960
Speaker 1: is a good thing. Right. Coming up, We're gonna talk

324
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,720
Speaker 1: to Jen de Louis Bloomberg News about this fascinating story

325
00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:04,359
Speaker 1: on Bill Gates's role in that bill passing. This is

326
00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:12,360
Speaker 1: Bloomberg really interesting story on the Bloomberg terminal today titled

327
00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:17,240
Speaker 1: Bill Gates Quietly campaigned to save Biden's Climate Bill. That's

328
00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:21,440
Speaker 1: by Ox Shot Rothy and Jennifer aid Louis. Uh, Bill

329
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,639
Speaker 1: Gates isn't even the beginning and end of the story.

330
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:29,080
Speaker 1: It's a really interesting mix of characters. Gates, Larry Summers,

331
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,920
Speaker 1: people from the National Wildlife Federation, economists from the University

332
00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:38,080
Speaker 1: of Chicago, etcetera. For more, we're bringing in Jenda Louis,

333
00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,640
Speaker 1: who helped write that piece and first let's actually play

334
00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,560
Speaker 1: a clip of what Bill Gates had to say about

335
00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,240
Speaker 1: how this all came together in an interview with ox

336
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:52,200
Speaker 1: shot Rothy. Here's Bill Gates and maintaining that dialogue, including

337
00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:55,800
Speaker 1: them the last month where people felt like, Okay, we tried,

338
00:19:55,920 --> 00:20:00,639
Speaker 1: we're gone. It failed, and you know, because so I

339
00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:04,080
Speaker 1: believed it was a unique opportunity my trying to bridge

340
00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,200
Speaker 1: the communication gap and encourage people to make one more

341
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:11,040
Speaker 1: effort because of the relationship we built up over time,

342
00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:13,760
Speaker 1: you know, we were able to talk even at a

343
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,800
Speaker 1: time when he felt people weren't listening. You know, I

344
00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:21,320
Speaker 1: wouldn't have wanted to be in his position. So Jen,

345
00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,400
Speaker 1: very happy to have you on. This is a really

346
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:28,320
Speaker 1: interesting story. The first question I have when I hear

347
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:31,879
Speaker 1: comments like that, uh Bill Gates saying it sounds like

348
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:34,360
Speaker 1: he he was almost trying to give people a pep talk,

349
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:38,120
Speaker 1: saying don't give up yet. I'm curious what exactly did

350
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:42,240
Speaker 1: Joe Mansion need to hear to keep these talks going.

351
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,520
Speaker 1: Was it encouragement? Was it something from economists saying this

352
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:50,600
Speaker 1: will be disinflationary? Was where where people twisting his elbow?

353
00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:52,840
Speaker 1: Was it the carrot or the stick what needed to

354
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,280
Speaker 1: happen and did happen when all of these other characters

355
00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:01,000
Speaker 1: got involved and tried to communicate between people like Chuck

356
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:06,080
Speaker 1: Schumer and Joe Mansion. Right, Well, it's really, uh really

357
00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:10,200
Speaker 1: in those final days after July fourteenth, when Mansion essentially

358
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:12,960
Speaker 1: slammed the brakes on what would become the Inflation Reduction Act,

359
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:14,440
Speaker 1: there were a lot of there was a lot of

360
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:16,760
Speaker 1: encouragement going toward a lot of folks and and and

361
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:21,520
Speaker 1: that includes to Senator Schumer. Um. But but obviously huge

362
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:25,040
Speaker 1: pressure and and uh conversations were being had and mounted

363
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:29,960
Speaker 1: on uh Senator Mansion. Uh. He he felt uh both

364
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 1: a great deal of rage uh from from colleagues and

365
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:38,840
Speaker 1: from many activists who felt like, you know, the rug

366
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,399
Speaker 1: has been pulled out from them, U beneath them on

367
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:43,960
Speaker 1: this bill. Uh. You know, one of his colleagues mused

368
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,440
Speaker 1: that he shouldn't necessarily have his gabble as the head

369
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:48,879
Speaker 1: of the Energy Committee anymore. Um. So he had that

370
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,440
Speaker 1: pressure at the same time that he was hearing from

371
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:53,640
Speaker 1: a lot of advocates who have been working with him

372
00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:57,600
Speaker 1: for eighteen months, uh, you know, trying to to to

373
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,240
Speaker 1: help him understand that the value you of of such

374
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:05,480
Speaker 1: a swooping bill to West Virginia where you know coal miners, Uh,

375
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 1: you know, a source of income and source of vitality

376
00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:11,960
Speaker 1: and jobs is diminishing. Uh. And and he'd be able

377
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,439
Speaker 1: to talk with those folks. We saw a real effort

378
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:19,639
Speaker 1: by UH Colin O'Mara at the National Wildlife Federation and

379
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:24,440
Speaker 1: by fellow senators including Senator Chris Coons to get economists

380
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,920
Speaker 1: in front of Joe Manchin to to really walk through

381
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,520
Speaker 1: his inflation concerns and and talk to him about how

382
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 1: the bill would actually have a deplationary impact. All of

383
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:34,359
Speaker 1: this was in the final week and a half, really

384
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 1: UH to to get him to a place where he

385
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,720
Speaker 1: could support in the Indeed, and failed this legislation with

386
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:43,600
Speaker 1: Chuck Schumer. Right, So is it that bad? The I?

387
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:45,959
Speaker 1: I look, I don't mean to be negative when they

388
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 1: just had this major victory and it's signed into law.

389
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:52,400
Speaker 1: But is the working relationship between Chuck Schumer and Joe

390
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,640
Speaker 1: Manchin so negative that then they need the marriage counselor

391
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:58,439
Speaker 1: of Bill Gates and and Chris Coon's needs to get

392
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 1: Larry Summers to talk to Joe man And why was

393
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 1: it more effective to have these other middlemen rather than

394
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:10,880
Speaker 1: negotiations directly among senators yielding the results. You know, great question.

395
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 1: You know clearly Uh. Senator Mansion and Senator Schumers spent

396
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,920
Speaker 1: a great deal of time together working up this legislation.

397
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 1: Mansions described it, you know kind of uh, some very

398
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 1: heated moments between the two of them, uh and uh

399
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,480
Speaker 1: where Schumer could speak eloquently perhaps about certain elements of

400
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 1: the bill. But Mansion, what was clearly going to um

401
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 1: confirm more authority on the voice of economists such as

402
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,399
Speaker 1: you know, former Treasury Secretary Larry Summers, one of the

403
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,200
Speaker 1: folks who was an emissary talking to him during this

404
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 1: two week period. Um. Uh. Clearly there were other outside

405
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:47,239
Speaker 1: voices who could be dispositive in a way that senators uh,

406
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 1: some of his colleagues just couldn't be. And that includes

407
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 1: real voices from on the ground in West Virginia. You know,

408
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 1: the head of a solar uh company, the head of

409
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 1: a steel company, both were involved. You also had miners

410
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 1: in his state, mining interests and labor interests coming to

411
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,639
Speaker 1: him and saying, look, we really need the worker protections

412
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 1: in this bill. We need the Black Lung Disability Trust

413
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 1: Fund funded through this bill, so that all really was important,

414
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 1: and those were voices and arguments he wasn't going to

415
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 1: hear just from Majority Leader Schumer. So would it have

416
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:21,239
Speaker 1: happened without Bill Gates stepping in. I'm curious if there

417
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,400
Speaker 1: was any other way. Uh. You know, I think Bill

418
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 1: Gates is UH is maybe an example of all of

419
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 1: the voices and the UH folks who intervened here, without

420
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,119
Speaker 1: which this probably would not have happened. So, you know,

421
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 1: maybe you could take one or two of them out

422
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 1: of the equation, But it was the cumulative effect of

423
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 1: so many important and powerful stakeholders talking to Mansion, having

424
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 1: trust both ways with him, and really persistently and doggedly

425
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,160
Speaker 1: working on this over the last year and a half.

426
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,919
Speaker 1: I have been curious throughout all of these negotiations how

427
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:57,880
Speaker 1: much of the Mansion focus was really entirely about Mansion,

428
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 1: or if maybe he at sometimes was saying no to

429
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:04,119
Speaker 1: things on behalf of other senators who might not have

430
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 1: wanted all the tax measures. What have we learned about

431
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 1: how pivotal Joe Mansion singularly was in these negotiations. You know,

432
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 1: I think I think it's hard to to diminish the

433
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 1: incredible role of that he played in in negotiating this

434
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 1: final legislation. Clearly other senators, including Cinema, had concerns with

435
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 1: aspects of this bill. And I think we're still going

436
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:29,920
Speaker 1: to learn all the great deal more about the way

437
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 1: this came together. I think, you know, books are going

438
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 1: to be written about this, and we're gonna learn a

439
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:37,439
Speaker 1: great deal more about the last two years of negotiations. Uh,

440
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 1: you know. But clearly he wasn't alone in having some

441
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 1: of these concerns, and at times he just happened to

442
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 1: be the lightning rod attracting the most attention. Okay, so

443
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: before we go, is there books we read? Are is

444
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 1: it going to be your book? Are you writing it?

445
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to reading them. That Well, we'll go

446
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 1: to the panel next Roger Fisk and Rick Davis. I'm

447
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:18,879
Speaker 1: Jack Fitzpatrick. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg sound

448
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 1: on on Bloomberg Radio. Pat Sippoloni, the former White House

449
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: Council and his deputy from the Trump administration, both interviewed

450
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:34,679
Speaker 1: by the FBI. This is in the investigation into documents

451
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 1: that were stored at marl Lago, the Florida, a state

452
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 1: of former President Donald Trump, some of which some of

453
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 1: those documents were marked top secret with the highest level

454
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,399
Speaker 1: of the s c I clearance. So I want to

455
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 1: discuss this before we get into all the elections today

456
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 1: with the panel, let's bring in Roger Fisk and Obama alum,

457
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 1: Obama Administration alum, who's president of New Day Strategy, as

458
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: well as Bloomberg Politics contributor Rick Davis. Guys, it just

459
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 1: seems to be a daily drip, drip drip. We were

460
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: talking about how we could practically guarantee there'd be some

461
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 1: sort of Trump legal news that drops during the show.

462
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 1: This came, uh, this was published by ABC News just

463
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: a few minutes ago. Uh. My initial reaction is Pat

464
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 1: Sippolloni when the January six stuff came up in the

465
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,439
Speaker 1: January six committee, he was somebody who pointed who pushed

466
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 1: against what he considered the errand voter fraud claims by

467
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 1: h former President Trump. Rick, would you imagine that as

468
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 1: it relates to the storage of top secret documents, Sippoloni

469
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 1: must have uh pushed back against this or what is

470
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: the significance do you think? Uh? In terms of the interview,

471
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: Pat Sippoloni and Pat Philbin both interviewed by the FBI. Yeah.

472
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:50,400
Speaker 1: I think it's a really fascinating report because it indicates

473
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 1: what we really don't know about this investigation. I mean,

474
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 1: this investigation really came into the public, uh eyes during

475
00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,080
Speaker 1: one of our earlier shows, um, you know, during the

476
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,199
Speaker 1: search of mar Lago. And and since then we've been

477
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: getting a drip drip trip of information about you know,

478
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 1: potential grand juries and what the Affidavid says and and

479
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 1: and we've just been learning in real time what the

480
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 1: impact of this is going to be. I I gotta

481
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,879
Speaker 1: believe that everything we've seen of of pet Siboloni as

482
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 1: that he's been a cautious and and concerned counsel in

483
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 1: the White House who had the responsibility for the transition

484
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 1: of these documents to the archives. And he probably did

485
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: everything he thought was in his abilities to do. And uh,

486
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 1: it'll be fascinating to learn someday if we can whether

487
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 1: or not he even knew that these documents were taken

488
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 1: out of the White House and and and asconced down

489
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 1: in mar Lago. So I gotta believe his side of

490
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: this story is going to be probably vanilla. This is

491
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: how we handled at the White House and then there

492
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 1: was a whole another side of the story, which is

493
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: what Donald Trump did in his last minute packing and

494
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 1: and and scarring off to Florida. Yeah. You you wonder

495
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 1: this seems like such a serious issue that they're investigating.

496
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 1: There must have been numerous failures or maybe one person,

497
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 1: the former president, putting some stuff in a bag on

498
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: his way out. I don't know, that's what That's what

499
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 1: I do when I move. I I don't know what

500
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 1: ends up in what box. Um uh. Let's talk elections,

501
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 1: and I think we've got to start of all the

502
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 1: elections that are happening today, some really interesting primaries in

503
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 1: a special election, We've got to start with Congresswoman Liz

504
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: Cheney and her reelection. The polls that have come out

505
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 1: do not look good. She faces Harriet Hageman, who is

506
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: the Trump anointed challenger in the Republican race for the

507
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 1: Republican nomination in Wyoming. Let's play some sound from Liz

508
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 1: Cheney's ad, her latest ad, just to get a sense

509
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: of exactly what she's campaigning on. Here's Congresswoman Cheney's latest ad.

510
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 1: No matter how long we must fight, this is a

511
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: battle we will win. Millions of Americans across our nation, Republicans, Democrats,

512
00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: independents stand united in the cause of freedom. We are stronger,

513
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 1: more dedicated, and more determined than those trying to destroy

514
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: our republic. This is our great task and we will prevail.

515
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 1: I hope you will join me in this fight. So

516
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 1: you usually don't hear a member of Congress doing a

517
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 1: campaign ad in their Republican primary calling on Republicans, Democrats,

518
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 1: and independence in this valiant effort. But there is the

519
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: idea that maybe Democrats and independence will register and vote

520
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: in this, uh, this Republican primary. H Roger, What are

521
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 1: the chances of not Republicans but Democrats and Independence saving

522
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: Liz Cheney in this primary? Well, I think her problem

523
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 1: is just mathematical, right. I don't think there's enough Democrats

524
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 1: and why aming to do that. Um. But but it

525
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 1: is interesting and and you know what I might take

526
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 1: away from it is you can kind of see and

527
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 1: hear her look past uh this election. You know, to

528
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 1: to to weave together some of our thematic strands here

529
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 1: and to build on on your discussion with Congressman Smith

530
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 1: and how I mentioned he was a little bit of

531
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: a welcomed throwback. I remember in the Clinton impeachment. How

532
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 1: you know, these these very lofty speeches about how you

533
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 1: can't lie, and the GOP's message to President Clinton was

534
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: you can't lie. And now the GOP's message to Liz

535
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 1: Cheney Cheney is you must lie. You must embrace this,

536
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 1: this big lie about and that's extremely troubling. And I

537
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: think she looks at that and she realizes she might

538
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 1: have a lane to not necessarily win national office, but

539
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 1: certainly play some kind of a torpedo role. And I

540
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: think she would really enjoy playing it. Yet not necessarily

541
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 1: about winning, is my takeaway here. Using the phrase destroy

542
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: our republic, it seems like she's going for something bigger

543
00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 1: and broader than re election. Rick, It's I guess it's

544
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 1: one question to say, does she know she's gonna lose

545
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: and she wants to make a stand anyway, But also

546
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 1: is there something else she's gunning for. Is it going

547
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 1: to be a superpack that she sets up or a

548
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 1: nonprofit or does she run for president or I mean,

549
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: what what is she preparing for? Well, I think the

550
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 1: first thing that you've pointed out, Jack, is that she

551
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 1: hasn't actually been running for re election. She hasn't been

552
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 1: talking to the people of Wyoming about inflation and and

553
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,479
Speaker 1: the rampants spending in Congress and the impact is going

554
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 1: to have on their taxes. And I mean these would

555
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: be normal things that a typical House member would would

556
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 1: say to their state in this case, Uh, and she

557
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 1: hasn't done that. She from the very get go said

558
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 1: my reelection is going to be all about Donald Trump

559
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 1: and keeping him from ever being in the Oval office again.

560
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: And and she's stuck true to that every ad she's produced,

561
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: even with her father. Uh, it's all been about Donald Trump.

562
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 1: And so she's effectively used this platform uh to basically say, Look,

563
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,479
Speaker 1: I know I'm probably not gonna win reelection probably uh

564
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 1: don't even want to try. I'm gonna try and defeat

565
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 1: Donald Trump and any any ambitions he has in the future.

566
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 1: And I have absolutely no doubt. We should watch her

567
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: speech um tonight, UH if we're can stay up that

568
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 1: late and and and see what she says, because I think,

569
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 1: like what Roger was saying, listen to what she says.

570
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 1: She will give us an idea. Even though she won't

571
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 1: lay out in full form what she's gonna do next,

572
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 1: she will give us an idea. Uh. And My guess

573
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 1: is that idea is she's going to continue the fight

574
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 1: that she's waging against Donald Trump. However, it manifests itself. Uh. Yeah,

575
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 1: look Western, that's a Western time zone in Wyoming, So

576
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 1: if you're planning to stay up late for the results.

577
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: Although on the other hand, this seems like a race

578
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 1: they may uh, they may call early if if we're

579
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 1: all correct and the polling is correct, that it's not

580
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 1: going to be a terribly close race. It'll be interesting

581
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 1: to see if she gives a concession speech that is

582
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: not conceding the broader point. A couple other interesting races

583
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 1: to talk about today. Uh. One, you see the Sarah

584
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: Palin race. The possibility of Sarah Palin winning the house race.

585
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 1: It's a bit convoluted because this is for Don Young's

586
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 1: see the late Don Young who died earlier this year.

587
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 1: This is a special election. She will also be running

588
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,879
Speaker 1: for the full term. And if it's not confusing enough

589
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,800
Speaker 1: that she's kind of running twice at once. Uh. This

590
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: is Alaska's new system of ranked choice voting. UH. For one,

591
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 1: I I'm wondering how long we have to wait for

592
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 1: the results because of of ranked choice voting. UH. And

593
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 1: we don't necessarily know who the favorite is. Palin uh

594
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 1: faces uh. She she beat Nick Beget in the Republican

595
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 1: primary in this special election. Roger one, what are your

596
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 1: expectations for the possibility of Congresswoman Sarah Palin And to A,

597
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 1: I write in thinking that even though the votes are

598
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 1: cast and there is starting to count tonight, it could

599
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 1: be a while before we know what happens in that race. Yeah,

600
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 1: I think that. I think that's accurate. And then to

601
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 1: speak to her chances, I mean, somebody always beats nobody

602
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 1: for the most part, although there's some exceptions, Eric Canter losing,

603
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:20,399
Speaker 1: you know, while he was a majority whip and things

604
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,320
Speaker 1: like that. But I think she comes into it with

605
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 1: a with an incredible name recognition and and a brand,

606
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 1: and that brand, probably in the Alaskan context, probably has

607
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 1: a decent amount of momentum behind it because of this

608
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,879
Speaker 1: this perception that the that the Republicans are on the march,

609
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 1: even though as I mentioned earlier, I think that's less

610
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,359
Speaker 1: and less true every day. But I would I would

611
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 1: imagine she's feeling pretty good. So regardless of whether they

612
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 1: end up in the majority or the minority. Rick, where

613
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: does Sarah Palin fit into the House Republican Conference if

614
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 1: she wins today's House Republican Conference, and what does it

615
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 1: say about how that conference operates in the next Congress,

616
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 1: if Sarah Palin is part of it. Yeah, that'll be

617
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 1: an interesting question if she gets through this process, both

618
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: now and in the final vote for the next term,

619
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 1: and and and I think she might find herself actually

620
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 1: less conservative or less i would say, uh, extreme than

621
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 1: a lot of the caucus that's uh that's going to

622
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 1: show up there after this election, because there will be

623
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: a lot of new members in the House Caucus and

624
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 1: and and they're likely to be very big Trump uh supporters,

625
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:34,760
Speaker 1: and and probably much more along the lines of conspiracy theorists.

626
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 1: Then she's been um not to diminish her her her

627
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 1: move to the right, uh since she was on the

628
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 1: ticket with John McCain. But um, the reality is a

629
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 1: lot of these people believe things that that that Sarah

630
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 1: Palin probably is going to have to really question whether

631
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: or not she wants to be a part of that class.

632
00:36:55,800 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 1: And Rick, I'm curious, especially as a former John McCain guy, uh,

633
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: Lisa Murkowski, what are the expectations for her primary I

634
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 1: think that's another big one to look forward to tonight. Well,

635
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:10,280
Speaker 1: she is the ultimate survivor, right, I Mean, she's arguably

636
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: out of step with the Republicans in Alaska, but she

637
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 1: seems to do really well with everybody else. So my

638
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: my guess is she'll survive another near death experience politically,

639
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 1: another one that's tough to predict in this strange new

640
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 1: system of Alaska races. Thanks again to our guests, including

641
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:31,879
Speaker 1: Congressman Adrian Smith, Jinda Lewis, and the panel. I'm Jack Fitzpatrick.

642
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:33,320
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg