1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five, 2 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah hart Unger. 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, a practicing physician and blogger. 4 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: On the side, we are two working parents who love 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: our careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. 6 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, 7 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: and time for fun. From figuring out childcare to mapping 8 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get 9 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. 10 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode two hundred and sixty nine, 11 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: airing in late September of twenty twenty two. I am 12 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: going to be interviewing teen sleep expert Lisa Lewis. She 13 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: is the author of Sleep Deprived Teen and has been 14 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: instrumental in the movement in California to start high school later. 15 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 1: They now have a law in California that high schools 16 00:00:56,320 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: cannot start before about eight thirty AM. And and so 17 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: that was partly her handiwork, based on an op ed 18 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: she wrote for the Los Angeles Times several years ago 19 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: in her advocacy for that, partly as a parent of 20 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: a sleep deprived teen that she was seeing that there 21 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: was a huge problem with this setup. So we're looking 22 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: forward to talking with her about why it is so 23 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: important for teens to sleep, why high school start times 24 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: are generally not set up to make that possible, and 25 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: you know, we're looking forward to that. So, yeah, Sarah, 26 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 1: you don't have teens who sleep in yet. No, nor 27 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: do I even have like tweens who sleep in. I 28 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: am waiting for that milestone when like I get to 29 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 1: the point where I'm waiting for my kids to wake up, 30 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: but we're definitely not there yet. Generally, my kids sleep 31 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: better on Sunday than they do on Saturday, because I 32 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: guess we're up a little later Saturday. I do a 33 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: better job tiring them out. Perhaps Saturday morning not uncommon 34 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: to have someone bounce out of bed at like six am, 35 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: which is also kind of funny because on school days 36 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: a lot of times I'm having to drag them out. 37 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 1: It's six forty five. So I don't know, I got 38 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:09,359 Speaker 1: some early risers. I am an early riser. Maybe there's 39 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: a connection. I'm not sure. Yeah, that's the worst though, 40 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 1: when they're bounding out of bed before their time on weekdays, 41 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: like on weekends. It's like, no, no, you're missing the 42 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: point here, kid, This is this is not how this 43 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,079 Speaker 1: is supposed to work. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe we're 44 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 1: seeing some genetic differences here are you and me? Because 45 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: my tweens definitely sleep in I mean, Jasper and Sammer 46 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: in full freedged teen mode. I mean they would sleep 47 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: till ten eleven in the morning if we left them. 48 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 1: We don't let them even on weekends. It's not so 49 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: much that they have morning activities. It's just if you 50 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:41,799 Speaker 1: need to wake up at six thirty or seven during 51 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 1: the week and you sleep too late on the weekend, 52 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: you can't get back on track. So you know, I'm 53 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:49,919 Speaker 1: generally waking them up eight thirty nine somewhere in there. 54 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 1: We sometimes are waking even Alex and Henry up on weekdays, 55 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 1: which is kind of nutty. Alex is usually up. He 56 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: doesn't have to wake up until about eight because elementary 57 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: school starts at nine, which is of course just completely 58 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: backwards from how little kids versus big kids operate, and 59 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 1: especially now that our elementary schools are only K to four, 60 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 1: it would make a lot of sense to switch it. 61 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 1: But you know, Henry as he's been dropping the regular 62 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 1: nap is definitely sleeping longer in the morning, so sometimes 63 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: you know it's seven thirty closer to eight. So on 64 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: weekends there are times I'm definitely up before all of 65 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 1: my kids now, which is nutty. That had not happened 66 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: for for a long long time. What do you do 67 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: with that found time? I usually just lie in bed 68 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: because I don't want to wake anyone up, Like I'm like, 69 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: if I start walking around the house, it's gonna mess 70 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 1: everything up. The dog will start barking, somebody will hear me, 71 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: they'll be whining from the crib. Like I just you know, 72 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 1: lie as still as possible. But you know, often at 73 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: least one weekend morning, I am out running usually so 74 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: that's getting me up and then going to a church. 75 00:03:57,760 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: I usually need to be up around seven forty five 76 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: to get ready for that anyway, So it's not like 77 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 1: anyone's sleeping that long. That makes sense, That makes sense, well, 78 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: I have I look forward to maybe things shifting a 79 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: little bit as they get older, because I don't think 80 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: we've seen the full effects of what hormones can do. 81 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,839 Speaker 1: And even myself, which just thinking about this, even though 82 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: I do get up early now, and by the way, 83 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 1: I do that with an alarm, Like it's not like 84 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 1: I'm bounding outside at like four forty five, like hooray. 85 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:27,479 Speaker 1: I'm so weak now, Like even I slept till really 86 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,479 Speaker 1: late on weekends as a teen. So there is hope. 87 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 1: There's hope. Yeah, well sort of, I guess. So you've 88 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: fixed your bedtime routine, which is awesome, and you got 89 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:39,840 Speaker 1: your kids in bed on time. Did you want to 90 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:42,840 Speaker 1: talk about that or I think I've talked some about it, 91 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 1: But I got to say, like, that's half of the 92 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: sleep equation, right, There's when they wake up, and then 93 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:49,039 Speaker 1: there's how bedtime works. And I do feel like we've 94 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 1: made such great progress. This is a huge pain point 95 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 1: kind of end of the summer going into the school year, 96 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:57,840 Speaker 1: and I just put a lot of energy and kind 97 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: of like firmness into it, which is now necessarily my 98 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: default parenting style, and it does seem to have paid off, 99 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:05,480 Speaker 1: and I'm really excited about that. I can usually have 100 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 1: all three kids in their rooms at least by eight 101 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: thirty and have a little bit of time to myself 102 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 1: most evenings, which is fantastic. It is nice, yeah, to 103 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:15,840 Speaker 1: get that so Henry's still a wild card in our 104 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: bedtime thing because he doesn't always go to bed at 105 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: the same time. I wish he did, but it's that'll 106 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: get better, I'm sure over time. But the four big kids, 107 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 1: we have a very strict routine now on weekday evenings, 108 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 1: which is that everyone needs to be in their rooms 109 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: with no devices by nine o'clock. And if Mommy is 110 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: still putting Henry to bed at that time, which does 111 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:40,919 Speaker 1: happen if he's taking a longer time to go down, 112 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: they still need to get their devices into my room 113 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: by nine o'clock. And they have been very good at 114 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: it that they will all tramp over there, put devices 115 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,799 Speaker 1: in there, and then return to their rooms. They can read, 116 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:57,239 Speaker 1: do whatever in their rooms. I start circling around to 117 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: turn off lights nine forty five, so between ninety five 118 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 1: and ten is kind of chat with all the kids. 119 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: Lights out time, you know, check on everything. If somebody 120 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 1: was supposed to shower and forgot to shower, that's the 121 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: time that that is reminded. And then lights out for 122 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 1: everyone is by ten. And because of that, I mean, 123 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: I'm not naive enough to think that everyone falls asleep 124 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:23,919 Speaker 1: immediately by ten, but I do you know, if you 125 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: don't have your devices and the light is out and 126 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: that is being policed, it's easier to fall asleep. And 127 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 1: so I'm pretty sure that Jasper is asleep by ten 128 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 1: thirty most nights, which means that if he has to 129 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: get up at six thirty, he is getting the eight 130 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: hours of sleep that is sort of the minimum that 131 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 1: teens do need ideally. It's more like ideally, if I've 132 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:46,039 Speaker 1: turning out his light at nine p fifty, he's fallowed 133 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: asleep earlier and then he's getting more than the eight hours. 134 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: But you know, that's the goal there, Sam and Ruth. 135 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:53,359 Speaker 1: If the lights are out at ten and they do 136 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,119 Speaker 1: generally go to bed around then they wake up at seven, 137 00:06:56,200 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: so that's nine hours Alex ten to you know, if 138 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,799 Speaker 1: he's up seven thirty, that's nine and a half hours. 139 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: And then Henry sometimes naps, but he's probably getting more 140 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: like eleven eleven to twelve total sleep hours per day. 141 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: So we are on it. That is happening. I am 142 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: very strict about it, again also in a way that 143 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 1: I usually am not with you know children. Yeah, this 144 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: is like not your style at all with most things. 145 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 1: So I'm impressed and I guess it speaks to the 146 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 1: fact that like speakers like Lisa and others have made 147 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: an impact in showing both of us how important that 148 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: sleep time is and how important it is to have 149 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 1: a little bit of boundary at the end of your day. 150 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 1: That's predictable as well. Yeah, because then I get ten 151 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: to eleven to do whatever, because my bedtime is eleven. 152 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: If I need to be up at six thirty, that's 153 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: seven and a half hours, and so that's you know, 154 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: gives me some downtime as well, which I really appreciate, 155 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: and not having to go straight from kids stuff to 156 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 1: sleep if I have any hope of getting enough sleep. Yeah, No, 157 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: there's there was a little grumbling about it. There's some 158 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: grumbling about it for occasionally, but they do it and 159 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: so I will see hopefully it lasts for the year. 160 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 1: Michael seems to have bought into it as well, and 161 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 1: I know that when I've been traveling, they've also put 162 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: their devices away pretty good. Alex sometimes does need to 163 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: be reminded, but you know, as long as somebody's focused 164 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: on reminding him, then everyone else is doing it. Awesome. Yeah, well, 165 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: I'm excited to hear this. Tom. Yeah, let's say you 166 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 1: to hear from Lisa about why it is so important 167 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: for kids to sleep well. I am delighted to welcome 168 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: Lisa Lewis to the program. Lisa is the author of 169 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: The Sleep Deprived Teen, to a new book that looks 170 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 1: at all the ways that teenagers are not getting enough 171 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: sleep these days and why that is a problem. So, Lisa, 172 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: I wonder if you could introduce yourself to our listeners. Yes, Hi, 173 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:50,199 Speaker 1: thanks so much for having me. As you mentioned, my 174 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:52,319 Speaker 1: book just came out a couple months ago. It's called 175 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: The Sleep Deprived Teen. Why our teenagers are so tired 176 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: and how parents in schools can help them thrive. And 177 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 1: I'm so happy to be here to chat about teen sleep. Yeah. 178 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 1: And so how did you get, you know, involved in 179 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: this issue in the beginning, because you've been championing this 180 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: issue for a few years now. Yes, I have been 181 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: immersed in this for the last seven years. It's all 182 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: started for me in August of twenty fifteen because that 183 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 1: was when my oldest my son was entering high school. 184 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,199 Speaker 1: That was the beginning of his freshman year. And at 185 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 1: that point, our local public high school started at seven 186 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: thirty in the morning and that felt incredibly early. It 187 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: was the earliest he had ever had to go to school, 188 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: and it was quickly obvious. I was the one driving 189 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 1: to school. We'd leave the house every day at seven ten, 190 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 1: and it was quickly obvious that it really just was 191 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: too early. He was hardly alert, and I was hardly 192 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 1: dropping off someone who was in, you know, perfect shape 193 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 1: to be going off for a full day of learning. 194 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 1: So I started looking into it. I was trying to 195 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: figure out why does our high school start so early? 196 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 1: And what I quickly found out was that this was 197 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 1: not unique to our community. This unfortunate is the case 198 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,199 Speaker 1: in so many high schools around the country. Even today. 199 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:13,839 Speaker 1: There are high schools that start not just at seven thirty, 200 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: but seven a m. And that's first period mandatory attendance. 201 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: Those are not like optional classes. So one thing led 202 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 1: to another. I started looking into it, I started writing 203 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 1: about it. At the time that I got involved, the 204 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 1: issue was really hitting a critical mass because the previous year, 205 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: twenty fourteen, the American Academy of Pediatrics had just released 206 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 1: its policy statement recommending the middle and high schools start 207 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: no earlier than eight thirty. So it was, you know, 208 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: at that point that I was getting involved, starting to 209 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: write about it, and Abed I wrote which ran in 210 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:54,959 Speaker 1: the Los Angeles Times. The following fall ended up being 211 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: read by one of our California state senators who had 212 00:10:58,000 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 1: a high schooler of his own, so the issue ran 213 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:04,319 Speaker 1: with him. He ended up introducing a bill on the topic. 214 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 1: I got swept up in that whole journey, which was 215 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 1: two and a half years lengthy, lengthy process, got signed 216 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 1: into law in twenty nineteen three year implementation window, and 217 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: that just went into effect this past summer. So it's 218 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 1: been quite a ride. And yes it's been seven years 219 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:23,679 Speaker 1: as at this point that I have just been living 220 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: and breathing this living them really the tame sleep issue. 221 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: So why on earth do high schools start so early? 222 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: Because I know historically this has been the case. I mean, 223 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: if a district has a high school, a middle school, 224 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 1: an elementary school, or a high school and a K 225 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 1: through eight school, almost inevitably the high school will start 226 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 1: the earliest of the three, right, And why is that? Like? 227 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: Why is that the model that most places have had? 228 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: I know? And it well, So when it comes down to, 229 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: in a phrase, it's legacy bust schedules, because what happens 230 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: in many districts. As you mentioned, they have won fleet 231 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 1: of buses, and so for budget reasons, they decided to 232 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:07,079 Speaker 1: do that and schedule a tiered system for drop offs 233 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 1: and pick up so that they don't have to have 234 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 1: multiple buses running at the exact same time. And when 235 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,679 Speaker 1: they first put these schedules in place, back when these 236 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 1: these budget pressures were really hitting the districts, this was 237 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:24,320 Speaker 1: before the research on teams sleep was widely know and 238 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: so at that point, the default often was, well, let's 239 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: put the oldest kids in that earliest time thought, because 240 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: they're older, they should be able to handle it better. Well, 241 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 1: of course, now we know that's not the case, because 242 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: now we have all this research on teams sleep. But 243 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: those I call them legacy schedules because those schedules have 244 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:44,560 Speaker 1: endured long past the point where we know that, if anything, 245 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: it should be the exact opposite. I mean literally, some 246 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: districts can make a flip so that they have elementary 247 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: schools starting the earliest, you know, then middle and then 248 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 1: high school starting the latest. Yeah, I mean, so let's 249 00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:59,439 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about what happens with I mean, 250 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: we'll get to the objections people have to just flipping it. 251 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: But let's talk about what goes on with the teen 252 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 1: brain and teen sleep schedules, because you know, somebody might 253 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 1: look at that and say, well, you know, they should 254 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 1: just go to bed earlier, like get off their phones 255 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 1: and go to bed earlier. So what's going on with 256 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: teenage bodies? That makes it not quite that straightforward? Yes, 257 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: and it's I'm smiling because those are exactly the kind 258 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: of things that can often come up because you know, 259 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: when you don't really realize some of the basics of 260 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: teen sleep, it is easy to sort of think, oh, well, 261 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,679 Speaker 1: they're just being lazy. You know, should get up on time, 262 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,839 Speaker 1: they should put a bed earlier. So what has been 263 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: shown now and literally decades of research now is that 264 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: at puberty, our kids shift to a later sleep schedule, 265 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 1: so they have a circadian rhythm shift, and what that 266 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: means is that the timing shifts later for when they're 267 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:53,680 Speaker 1: feeling sleepy and also for when they are ready to 268 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: wake up in the morning. And you sort of just 269 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 1: see this in your house as you have a kid 270 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: who's growing older that when your kid is little, they 271 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: are bounding out of bed at six in the morning. 272 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 1: They're raring to go. Teens don't tend to do that, 273 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: and that's because they're all in this later schedule. So melatonin, 274 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: which is the hormone that primes is to feel sleepy, 275 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,680 Speaker 1: begins to be released later in the evening compared to 276 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 1: younger kids. And so what that means is that teens 277 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 1: really aren't feeling sleepy until about eleven o'clock at night. 278 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 1: Now I say eleven o'clock at night, because that's when 279 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 1: you know, sort of the earlier they're going to start 280 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: feeling sleepy. Reality is sometimes they are going to git 281 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: later than that. But the other reality to keep in 282 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 1: mind is that our teens up until age eighteen should 283 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 1: be getting eight to ten hours of sleep every single night. 284 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 1: And I think sometimes people are surprised by that to 285 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: know that there's a range. It's not just eight hours. 286 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 1: Eight is the minimum. You know, it's great for an adult, 287 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: but teens are not yet adults. And so then you 288 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: just do the math. Well, if they're not feeling sleepy 289 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: till eleven eleven o'clock at night, they need eight to 290 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: ten hours of sleep. You can see why the issue 291 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 1: of school start times really you know, makes that in 292 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: some cases impossible for them to get enough sleep, and 293 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: what happens to their brains and their bodies when they 294 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: do wind up chronically getting lesser what have it? You 295 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: crash on the weekends. You try to make it up 296 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: sleeping in or napping on the weekend. So what happens 297 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 1: when they don't consistently get the eight hours every single 298 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: night and you know, maybe get eight hours over the 299 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 1: course of the week, you know, fifty six hours, but 300 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 1: some of it's concentrated on the weekends because they're skimping 301 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: during the week right, And that's an issue too, because 302 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 1: you can't really catch up on the weekends. I mean, 303 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 1: that's something that I think people end up doing because 304 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 1: they're so in particularly teams, because they have built up 305 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 1: this accumulated sleep yet. But you know, an analogy I've 306 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: heard one of the sleep scientists I worked with make 307 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: is you know, you don't think about that like with eating, 308 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: for example, you don't say, oh, well, I'm just going 309 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 1: to make up for all the food I eat during 310 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: the week by doing it on the weekends. Like that 311 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: is not really a sustainable strategy. So it's sort of 312 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: a stop gap measure that we use. But the reality 313 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: is our teams are chronically sleep deprived and us have 314 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 1: ramifications across the board. It affects their school performance and aget. Again, 315 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 1: there have been literally decades of studies done on what 316 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: happens to the team brain and also what happens you know, 317 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 1: the fact that that they do and you get more 318 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: sleep after the schools shift. But for instance, when school 319 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 1: shift to later start times and teams get more sleep, 320 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 1: they find that attendance goes up, tarties go down, absences 321 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: go down, grades go up, graduation rates go up. So 322 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 1: I mean, just looking at it from the school standpoint, 323 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: clearly there are a lot of benefits. But then there 324 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 1: are so many other implications for mental health for risky behaviors, 325 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: including drowsy driving. For teams who are athletes, it affects 326 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: their performance when they're sleep deprived. Obviously you're not performing 327 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: at your best. It even increases their risk for injuries. 328 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: So I mean, basically, the way to think about it 329 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 1: is none of us do anything better by being sleep deprived. 330 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: All right, Well, we're going to take a quick ad 331 00:16:57,560 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 1: break and we'll be back to learn more about teams 332 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 1: and sleep in just a minute. Well, I am back 333 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: with Lisa Lewis, who is the author of The Sleep 334 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: Deprived Teen, who has been very active in the campaign 335 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: in California to get all high schools to start no 336 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,159 Speaker 1: earlier than eight thirty am. So I happen to be 337 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 1: in one of those districts where the start time is 338 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 1: still seven thirty for high school, so we are up 339 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 1: early for that. And I'm sure you know what the 340 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: usual objections are. Theoretically, our district would like to move. 341 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 1: They are trying to move, but we have some recalcitrant 342 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: neighbors next to a high school football field who do 343 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 1: not want lights. So it ends up being a small 344 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 1: issue that does. But what are the Maybe that's just 345 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: us who have that one, But what are some of 346 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,479 Speaker 1: the objections that people tend to have to this and 347 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 1: to making the switch, Like, once you are moving you know, 348 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 1: thousands of students into different times, I mean, what winds 349 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 1: up happening. Yeah, now that's a really good point. There 350 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 1: are a number of different kinds of questions that come up, 351 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 1: because I mean, quite literally, every community has its own 352 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 1: unique circumstance. You know, in many cases it will be 353 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: a case where it has to do with lighting, but 354 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 1: in some others it might have to do with transportation, 355 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:23,440 Speaker 1: and some others that might have to do with you know, 356 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:26,440 Speaker 1: you might not want to do a flip because that's 357 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 1: super early start time at seven thirty or seven am. Well, 358 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 1: it's probably not really advisable to have elementary schools starting 359 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:36,120 Speaker 1: that early. So, I mean, there's so many different kinds 360 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:39,119 Speaker 1: of things that come up. So I would say a 361 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 1: few things. I would say. The first is, whenever a district, 362 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 1: a community, whatever size entity it is, you know, because 363 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 1: again we just at this state level is talking about 364 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:54,199 Speaker 1: changing start times, you have to allow enough time to 365 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: make the change effectively. So you don't just announce it 366 00:18:57,520 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: and say, oh, we're going to do this next month. 367 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: You know, you do have to allow enough time so 368 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 1: that these kinds of questions can come up, can be addressed, 369 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:06,679 Speaker 1: you know, can come up with solutions that work for everybody. 370 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:09,160 Speaker 1: So in California, for instance, we had a three year 371 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 1: implementation window. But the kinds of things that come up 372 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,919 Speaker 1: do tend to be similar. So when it comes to 373 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: you know, issues like lighting. You know that's true if 374 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 1: you didn't have lighting previously and you are talking about 375 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:26,159 Speaker 1: moving games later, yes, that is something that's going to 376 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: have to happen, and not everyone is going to be 377 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: happy about that. You know, I don't unfortunately have a 378 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:36,879 Speaker 1: you know, a magic solution for that. However, what does help, 379 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 1: and this is part of having that long implementation window, 380 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 1: is starting off with communicating about why this is being done. 381 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 1: This is not just being done to annoy it the 382 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 1: neighbors were putting on more lights. This is being done 383 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:53,440 Speaker 1: because teams sleep deprivation is a public health issue. And 384 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: so I like to start by just setting some of 385 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:00,879 Speaker 1: those basics to have people understand really what's at stake, 386 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,920 Speaker 1: that this is not just something that's being done as 387 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: a logistical change. It has compelling public health research. It 388 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: has the backing of every major medical group out there, 389 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:14,399 Speaker 1: not just the American Academy Pediatrics, American Medical Association, American 390 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:18,359 Speaker 1: Psychological Association, to you know, look at this as a 391 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: public health issue and make sure it's grounded in that 392 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 1: understanding so that it doesn't get derailed by logistics considerations, 393 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: which again I know that doesn't offer the perfect answer 394 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:32,959 Speaker 1: to that specific example, but it does help put it 395 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 1: in context. Because if you were talking about say lead 396 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:39,159 Speaker 1: paint or asbestos, you know, people wouldn't say, oh, well, 397 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 1: we know we should, but we can't because of this 398 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 1: logistical issue, and so you know, sometimes it's just really 399 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 1: making sure people understand why this is being done in 400 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: the first place goes a long way towards helping maybe 401 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: have the conversations be more open and you know, have 402 00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 1: more kind of open solutions that can come about. So 403 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 1: what have districts wound up doing that? Do have the 404 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:06,439 Speaker 1: three tiers of buses? And especially if you don't want 405 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:09,640 Speaker 1: elementary schools starting at seven point thirty either? Is there 406 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 1: a best practice of it? I I mean, because that's probably 407 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,200 Speaker 1: what you know, people get hung up on. Well, and see, 408 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: this is the thing. There is no one best practice 409 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:20,199 Speaker 1: because there are so many different scenarios out there. I 410 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: mean in every single district. These schedules sort of have 411 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: come about because of, you know, things that had nothing 412 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: to do with student well being, Like you know, we 413 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:31,639 Speaker 1: need to cut our bus our busing budget, and so 414 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:33,679 Speaker 1: we're going to do it with this tier system, and 415 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: in many cases those haven't been updated in years. I mean, 416 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: just as an example, and this really I think underscores it. 417 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 1: At the time that my son was entering high school 418 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: and our high school had a seven thirty start time. Yeah, 419 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 1: again that I've been put in place years ago because 420 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: we had this tiered system. So elementary schools all started 421 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 1: somewhere between seven forty five and eight ten. Middle schools 422 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,880 Speaker 1: started at eight forty five, which was perfect, and high 423 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 1: school started at seven thirty, which was this huge dramatic change. 424 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:07,640 Speaker 1: And you know, right when your kid is entering high 425 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 1: school and all of a sudden having to go to 426 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 1: school that much earlier. But here's the road. At that 427 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: point in time, they no longer were even offering bus 428 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:18,119 Speaker 1: service to high school because of budget, and yet this 429 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:21,160 Speaker 1: start times endured, so we couldn't even say like, oh, well, 430 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: at least it's being done because of this valid reason. 431 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,439 Speaker 1: So I mean, that's just a particularly egregious example of 432 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 1: you know that these schedules often have not been updated 433 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 1: in so many years that often it is time to 434 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 1: take another look at them. There may be ways to streamline, 435 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: you know, whatever schedule has been put in place, because 436 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: again that caveat that no one should really be starting 437 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: at seven or seven thirty, and so sort of looking 438 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: at it again with fresh eyes, often it's time, yeah, 439 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 1: see if you can get a few more buses, Although 440 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:58,360 Speaker 1: finding the bus driver seems to be its own problem, right, Well, yeah, exactly, 441 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 1: and there are these external factor and you know that's true, 442 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 1: And yet you don't want teams sleep to be the 443 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 1: thing that suffers as a result. I mean, something has 444 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:10,639 Speaker 1: to give in that equation. But when you look at 445 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: the harm we're doing to our teams because of this, 446 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:16,680 Speaker 1: I think that too often has been downplayed unfortunately. Yeah, 447 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: it's very strange. I'm very curious what will wind up 448 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 1: happening in our district if you know, they're just waiting 449 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: a year to announce it after you know everything's finally 450 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:26,399 Speaker 1: back open with COVID. But the neighbors next to one 451 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,680 Speaker 1: of the high school football fields absolutely do not want 452 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: lights and have taken the whole thing to court as 453 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 1: far as I can see. So we shall see how 454 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 1: that all pays out. But yeah, so we are still 455 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 1: at seven thirty. So for those of us who are 456 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 1: in a situation like this where you know seven thirty 457 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: is the school high school starts, sign how can we 458 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:50,880 Speaker 1: boost the chances of our kids getting adequate sleep? Even 459 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 1: knowing that there is this reality of teens wanting to 460 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 1: stay up later and sleep later in the morning, what 461 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:01,400 Speaker 1: can we do to kind of, you know, help the situation, 462 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 1: even if it's not ideal. Yeah, and I have some 463 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:06,719 Speaker 1: other ideas too, going back to the lighting thing, if 464 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: we have time to get back to that, oh sure, yeah, 465 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,440 Speaker 1: because again I get back to really trying to set 466 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 1: that foundation of understanding for why this is being done. 467 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:19,359 Speaker 1: This chronic sleep deprivation that our teams have been suffering, 468 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: especially these last several years. You know, with everything that's 469 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,880 Speaker 1: gone on with the pandemic, et cetera, your mental health 470 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 1: issues for teens. Every major medical group has been sounding 471 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: the alarm. So I think really helping people understand that 472 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 1: just to start really helps sometimes get people on the 473 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 1: same page to be able to come up with some solutions, 474 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,440 Speaker 1: because yeah, a seven thirty start time is too early, 475 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: and you know you don't want want, you know that 476 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 1: to be stuck forevermore, knowing that how difficult that is 477 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 1: making things for our teams. That being said, you know, 478 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,680 Speaker 1: although that is known to be the single biggest policy 479 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 1: change we can make to help our teams, there are 480 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,119 Speaker 1: still things we can do in our own homes. You know, 481 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 1: As I mentioned, teams aren't feeling sleep till about eleven 482 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:02,880 Speaker 1: o'clock at night. But many of them are not going 483 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:04,640 Speaker 1: to bed at eleven, many of them are up much 484 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 1: later than that. So there are a number of other 485 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 1: factors that play in. So probably one of the first 486 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 1: ones I would recommend that parents take a look at 487 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 1: is whether their team is overscheduled, because I think oftentimes 488 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 1: that is the reality. There are so many demands being 489 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 1: put on them in terms of needing to take advanced 490 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: or honor sible classes, doing extracurriculars, or there's sports or 491 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 1: other activities. Maybe they have a job too, And so 492 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,160 Speaker 1: one pretty straightforward step is just to take a look 493 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:39,399 Speaker 1: at everything that is currently on your team's plate. Add 494 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,120 Speaker 1: up the hours for each of those, you know, because 495 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,919 Speaker 1: particularly when they're taking honor civil classes, that is generally 496 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,640 Speaker 1: an expanded homework load. See add all that up plus 497 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: those hours that are already dedicated to their sports or 498 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 1: theater or speech and debate and their job, and see 499 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,879 Speaker 1: if there's even a window left for of eight to 500 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: ten hours to give them the opportunity to be able 501 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 1: to get in that sleep. Because if there's not, that 502 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: is part of the issue. You know, it may be 503 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 1: time to reevaluate. But again, that's that's a straightforward step. 504 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 1: To take to look at everything, but recognizing the pressures 505 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:12,919 Speaker 1: that have led them to be over scheduled. That that 506 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 1: is a bigger issue, you know, and so that is 507 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 1: something also where the schools can play a role. Teams, 508 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 1: you know, technology is a big issue. However, teens also 509 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,400 Speaker 1: have to be online in order to do their homework. 510 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 1: You know. It's not just their social media time that's 511 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 1: you know, keeping them online. They have to be online 512 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 1: to do their homework, to turn in their assignments. But 513 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:39,159 Speaker 1: one of the issues that may inadvertently be contributing is 514 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 1: the fact that homework due dates when they're entered into 515 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,920 Speaker 1: the system for turn ins often get a default time 516 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:49,159 Speaker 1: of eleven fifty nine pm, you know, and that just 517 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 1: sort of tacitly encourages you to work later, right, I mean, 518 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 1: that's just human nature. So things like that sometimes, you know, 519 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 1: may not have even been really raised, and so raising 520 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: that maybe a turn in time of ten o'clock would help, 521 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 1: you know. Looking at tech, there are some common sense 522 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 1: guidelines parents can look at implementing, such as no tech 523 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 1: use an hour before bed. Those are the official recognitions 524 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: in the American Academy of Pediatrics. Ideally, charging all devices 525 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: in a central location like the kitchen. But for that too, 526 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 1: it's not just the teen's devices that should be there, 527 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 1: it's ours too as adults, you know, because we need 528 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,920 Speaker 1: to be walking the talk. So that's another one, is 529 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 1: I guess probably it all boils DOWND to making sleep 530 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 1: a priority, you know, so that they are teams see 531 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 1: that we make sleep a priority. It's not just something 532 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 1: where we are coming in these edicts, but that these 533 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 1: are common sense best practices that we are also following. Yeah, 534 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 1: the no screens an hour before bed is a really 535 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 1: a good one to you know, just encourage reading winding 536 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 1: down in general, because it's hard to go from zooming 537 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 1: on online to nothing all of a sudden clean. Yeah, 538 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 1: I would love to go back to the lights issue 539 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: if you have, you know now that you know you 540 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 1: mentioned it, because of course what's going on here. I mean, 541 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,440 Speaker 1: obviously high school sports can be very important in many communities. 542 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 1: They are obviously important to kids as well. And if 543 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,359 Speaker 1: your school gets out at two forty five in the afternoon, 544 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: your football game can be at three fifteen and be 545 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 1: done by five thirty and you don't need the lights, 546 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,879 Speaker 1: whereas if it is you know, or your practice, I 547 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: guess as it is, if school is ending an hour 548 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 1: and a half later, then you are, at least during 549 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 1: the winter months, going definitely into darkness, which you know 550 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 1: probably makes it hard to catch a ball or watch 551 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 1: practice or anything else. So what do you do about 552 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: the sports question and all that if it puts you 553 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 1: into the darkness. Yeah. So the one other thing that 554 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 1: I was thinking of is when you're talking about practices 555 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 1: or games in the dark. Generally speaking, you know, I 556 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: can see how late in the evening that can the issue. 557 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: But if you're talking well, first of all, if you're 558 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 1: talking around dinner time, I mean, it's sort of figuring 559 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: out what is too late. The same way there at 560 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 1: doors regulations in different communities after a certain point of time. 561 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 1: So is it reasonable to have them at say five 562 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 1: o'clock at night if needed, that would seem to be preferable. 563 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 1: I would assume to neighbors then stay at ten o'clock 564 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 1: at night. And I will also mention that you probably 565 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 1: don't want kids out practicing late at night anyway, because 566 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 1: that is also not in keeping with the spirit of 567 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 1: trying to help them get more sleep, and that again 568 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 1: is a best practice I have talked to, for instance, 569 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: a superintendent in Maine that when they made the switch 570 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 1: to later start times, they set a cap on how 571 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: late practices could go at night, and they also forbade 572 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 1: before school practices because those are also of course taking 573 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 1: away from the whole point of helping teens get more sleep. 574 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:50,840 Speaker 1: So that can be part of it of not having 575 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 1: these things go late at night when it comes to practices. 576 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: But even games, you know, oftentimes they'll help JV we'll 577 00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: play in the afternoon and then varsity will play at night. 578 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 1: Well maybe they could have varsity played earlier in the 579 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 1: evening on Friday and have JV plan on Thursday. You know, like, 580 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 1: it seems like there are solutions where you can do 581 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 1: it where it doesn't have to be late at night, 582 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 1: you know, nine o'clock at night. It just seems like 583 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,239 Speaker 1: having those sort of conversations with neighbors and starting to 584 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 1: look at some of these options, and particularly once you've 585 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 1: established why this is being done to help your team's 586 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 1: not be sleep deprived, then maybe they would be more 587 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 1: open to coming up with some solutions like that. Yeah, 588 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 1: now it's a fascinating issue. I mean, what do you 589 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 1: see happening do you think it's going to be sort 590 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 1: of states adopting what California did. I know this is 591 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 1: under consideration, and a few other states, New Jersey and 592 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: a few other places that would be my hope. And 593 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 1: I say that because it does seem like to really 594 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 1: have change happen at scale. The reality is having it 595 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 1: happen at the state wide level seems like the best approach. 596 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 1: And I will point out it's also what's done for 597 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 1: other public health issues. Again as best the paint. You 598 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: don't leave that to local communities to decide whether or 599 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:06,640 Speaker 1: not to heed. You know, we're into lead paint. And 600 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 1: I mean the sad reality is this research has been 601 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 1: out there for decades and the AAP, you know, even 602 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 1: their statement that was twenty fourteen, so it's it's been 603 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 1: a number of years even since then, and they didn't 604 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 1: come to that lightly. They waited until what there was 605 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 1: this body of research and you know, proven results pre 606 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 1: and post or is to show that yes, these later 607 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 1: start times are linked to teens getting more sleep. So 608 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 1: we know the research is out there, and yet up 609 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 1: until California making this change, the change really has happened 610 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 1: on a patchwork basis. So I wish I could tell 611 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 1: you the exact number of districts that have changed, but 612 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 1: there is no central database, So I mean, I know 613 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 1: it's hundreds, more than hundreds that have done this, you 614 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 1: know it Before California, the largest jurisdiction to do so 615 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: was probably the city of Seattle. And so there have 616 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 1: been cities that have done this. There have been districts 617 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,040 Speaker 1: as small as one high school, but it has and 618 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 1: on a patrick basis, and so you know, often California 619 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 1: is the bell weather for changes, and so I do 620 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 1: hope that this is now putting some wind in the 621 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 1: sales of some of these other states like New Jersey, 622 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 1: like New York, like Massachusetts that do have active bills 623 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 1: under consideration right now. And there's one other piece I'll 624 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 1: mentioned that ties back to sports, which is that when 625 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:26,280 Speaker 1: this happens at the state wide level, it also eliminates 626 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 1: some of what has historically come up as a sticking point, 627 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 1: which is districts having to negotiate with other districts that 628 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:35,720 Speaker 1: haven't changed their start times. So what that's going to 629 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 1: mean for practices, Well, the beauty of it when it's 630 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 1: at at a state wide level is you don't have 631 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: to do that because all the schools are now more 632 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: in sync with their start times as opposed to some 633 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: starting at seven am and some starting at seven thirty 634 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: am and sun starting at eight thirty. Yeah, exactly. All right, well, Lisa, 635 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: this has been great talking about this. We always end 636 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,480 Speaker 1: with a love of the week. It doesn't have to 637 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,240 Speaker 1: be sleep related. It can be if you want, we 638 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 1: can say what it is. I can go first, just 639 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 1: anything that is making your life good this week. I 640 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:12,680 Speaker 1: will say that I have designated a area for the kids' 641 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 1: devices and they are all required to be in their 642 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 1: rooms and off devices by nine pm, with the lights 643 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: then going off at ten. And you know, it's been good, 644 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 1: like having a spot for everyone to put stuff and 645 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 1: a time that it absolutely has to be done. There 646 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 1: has been a good start of school routine. I'm hoping 647 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 1: we can stick with it. But it does make the 648 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 1: whole evening a bit more coordinated and peaceful. And that's 649 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 1: been good. Yes, oh no, that's perfect. And particularly I'm 650 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 1: gathering your kids maybe a little younger than mine, because 651 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 1: having those routines set, you know, when kids are younger 652 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 1: makes it easier as they morph into teens and as 653 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 1: all of you know these demands ramp up, so that 654 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 1: is a great practice, I will say on my end, 655 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 1: but I am enjoying quite literally. This week is the 656 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 1: break in the weather. I'm in southern California and it 657 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 1: has been beastly hot for a good ten days and 658 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 1: that makes it hard to sleep. So I am very 659 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 1: grateful that finally we're turning the corner getting a little 660 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: hint of fall. And my crisp cotton sheets too, those 661 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 1: are good. Those make sleep excellent. Yes, I've been getting 662 00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 1: some good sleep, some nice blankets that as it gets 663 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 1: colder we'll be able to use. I don't like it 664 00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:27,240 Speaker 1: was too cold, but you know, a little bit of fall, 665 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,040 Speaker 1: nip in the air, is this is a lightful thing 666 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,359 Speaker 1: for sleeping. Well all right, well, Lisa, this has been great. 667 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,439 Speaker 1: Why don't you tell our listeners where they can find you. Yes, 668 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:42,400 Speaker 1: my website is Lisalllewis dot com. I do use my 669 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 1: middle initial just because it's a somewhat common name. So 670 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,800 Speaker 1: even on my book you'll see it's Lisa L. Lewis. 671 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,600 Speaker 1: And the book is The Sleep Deprived Teen, Why our 672 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,680 Speaker 1: teenagers are so tired and how parents at schools can 673 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: help them thrive. Oh and I should mention Twitter and Instagram. 674 00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 1: It's at Lewis Lisa l awesome, all right that Lisa, 675 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much. 676 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 1: Really enjoyed it, all right. So that was great hearing 677 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,400 Speaker 1: from Lisa about teens sleep and what we can do 678 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:14,240 Speaker 1: to make sure that our communities are supporting healthy sleep 679 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 1: for teenagers. So, Sarah, you wanted to include this in 680 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:22,319 Speaker 1: lieu of a question. We have a reader pro tip 681 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,160 Speaker 1: or a listener pro tip. So do you want to 682 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,880 Speaker 1: read this one? Sure? Since this has been like a 683 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,560 Speaker 1: fantasy of mine for so long and this person actually 684 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 1: put it into action. Okay. So she writes that she 685 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:36,480 Speaker 1: wanted to contribute to the conversation about school morning breakfast 686 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,680 Speaker 1: ideas and had a strategy that was working in their 687 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:42,320 Speaker 1: household for many years. She meets with her kids twice 688 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,719 Speaker 1: a year, once before school starts and once when they 689 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 1: go back in January, and that meeting they decide what 690 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:49,960 Speaker 1: breakfast is going to be and put it on a schedule. 691 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:52,080 Speaker 1: Since there's buy in from the kids, they are not 692 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 1: resistant to the mules, and since it's predetermined, it removes 693 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 1: the decision making conversation every morning they came up with 694 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,800 Speaker 1: me people. Mondays pancakes with maple syrup, toast, Tuesdays oatmeal 695 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 1: and grits with toast or avocado toast waffle, Wednesday's thirsty, 696 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: Thursdays which is a smoothie, don't get excited, fun Fridays 697 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 1: which is cereal, and see is there a weekend? While 698 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,839 Speaker 1: she no specific weekend rotation, but that makes sense because 699 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 1: weekends tend to be less hectic anyway. And she writes 700 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:22,960 Speaker 1: they also always have fruit as a side and keep 701 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 1: some other backups on hand, and she likes having that 702 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:28,919 Speaker 1: second meeting in January so the kids can shake things 703 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,279 Speaker 1: up to avoid burnout if needed. I just thought it 704 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:33,360 Speaker 1: was so cool. I've always wanted to have a quote 705 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,799 Speaker 1: breakfast rotation. Maybe I haven't had enough kid input. Maybe 706 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,280 Speaker 1: if it was their rotation, there would be more excitement 707 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:44,000 Speaker 1: around said rotation. I will say I have learned that 708 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:45,840 Speaker 1: the secret to give you my kids oatmeal and not 709 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 1: hearing complaints is serving it with chocolate chips. So that 710 00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:50,760 Speaker 1: is my pro tip for the day. I think anything 711 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,359 Speaker 1: with chocolate chips can reduce the wining. It's something about 712 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 1: the chocolate chips. It's even just the tiniest little bit 713 00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 1: of chocolate whip cream is another thing you could try 714 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,760 Speaker 1: for almost anything like a time. Little bit of whipped 715 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:07,240 Speaker 1: cream on a whatever, on anything, anything tends to reduce 716 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 1: the whining. So yeah, that was a great tip from 717 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:12,840 Speaker 1: our listener about having a morning rotation like that. My 718 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 1: older children are responsible for their own breakfasts and then 719 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,239 Speaker 1: Alex is happy to just have a freezer waffle and 720 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:22,239 Speaker 1: a piece of cheese. So you know, I think this 721 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:24,960 Speaker 1: would be a lot more elaborate than we would have 722 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 1: in our house. But if you've got younger kids who 723 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,080 Speaker 1: have not reached quite the get your own breakfast stage, 724 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 1: I can think this would be definitely helpful. So this 725 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:35,880 Speaker 1: has been best of both worlds. I have been talking 726 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,520 Speaker 1: with Lisa Lewis, who is an expert on teen sleep 727 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:44,319 Speaker 1: was helpful in getting California to pass legislation making sure 728 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,640 Speaker 1: that high schools started later to take into account teen 729 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,439 Speaker 1: sleep needs. We will be back next week with more 730 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:54,960 Speaker 1: on making work and life fit together. Thanks for listening. 731 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,200 Speaker 1: You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com 732 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:02,000 Speaker 1: or at the Underscore shoe Box on Instagram, and you 733 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:06,200 Speaker 1: can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This 734 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 1: has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join 735 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,400 Speaker 1: us next time for more on making work and life 736 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:13,240 Speaker 1: work together.