Speaker 1: On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and fair Weather
Speaker 1: Friends Media. Though the looker likes didn't share biology, they
Speaker 1: shared a love of stories that bonded them. Huh.
Speaker 2: I wanted to have a memorable first line of our podcast.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, like when twenty four was spiteful.
Speaker 2: Or they shoot the white girl first.
Speaker 1: I was borned by the river.
Speaker 2: It's like a jungle. Sometimes it makes me wonder how
Speaker 2: I keep from going under.
Speaker 1: And those are some iconic lines.
Speaker 2: Yeah, when the grill speaks to people, listen, an elder
Speaker 2: whose memory held a library miss folk tales, community histories, epics,
Speaker 2: and legends.
Speaker 1: We have always always had many stories to tell, stories
Speaker 1: of our highest highs and our lowest lows.
Speaker 2: Our hearts cradled by our mama, daddy, sister, cousin, friend, Our.
Speaker 1: Science and magic wielded by tender hands.
Speaker 2: Our names and languages snatched, our links to our history,
Speaker 2: our stories, ourselves sold.
Speaker 1: Through it all, our mouths, our memories remained.
Speaker 2: The people could fly, and it turns out the stories
Speaker 2: could too.
Speaker 1: Gospel music's redemptive.
Speaker 2: Arc, blaxplotations, hyperbole, the quick wit.
Speaker 1: Of playing the dozens and roasting.
Speaker 2: The family history baked into recipes passed down from generation
Speaker 2: to generation.
Speaker 1: Ida's investigations of strange fruit, a reality that's hard to swallow.
Speaker 2: Tony's loving hands writing about the Black women in America.
Speaker 1: The subway performer who's larger than life, movements and familiar
Speaker 1: cadence that are all but shouting. Do you see me?
Speaker 1: Because I'm right here.
Speaker 2: No matter the form, topic or venue, Black storytelling is
Speaker 2: all about bearing witness. Black stories are the reason why
Speaker 2: I hesitate to kill spiders even though they scare me,
Speaker 2: and why I know what nineteen seventies Jackson, Mississippi looks
Speaker 2: like from a primary source.
Speaker 1: Black stories are the reason why I feel empowered to
Speaker 1: be a storyteller and join this podcast. Black stories are
Speaker 1: the default, the meaningful and profound, the mundane and petty,
Speaker 1: stories that keep us up at night, and stories that
Speaker 1: make us roll our eyes.
Speaker 2: We're taking a second look and questioning the consensus. We're
Speaker 2: pulling stories from the archive that you've never heard of
Speaker 2: before and won't be able to shut up about afterward.
Speaker 2: I'm Katie and I'm Eves, and this is on theme
Speaker 2: with Katie and.
Speaker 1: Eves today's episode.
Speaker 2: This is the beginning. So why are we like? Why Now, first.
Speaker 1: Of all, we love black stories and we think, you know,
Speaker 1: black stories deserve the spotlight all of the time. True, Okay,
Speaker 1: not just during Black History Month or around June teenth,
Speaker 1: Not definitely, Not in the aftermath of a tragedy. Black
Speaker 1: stories are more than a fad or fodder for opportunistic outsiders.
Speaker 1: We know them, we love them, and of course we're
Speaker 1: moved by them. They change our lives, so we want
Speaker 1: to share them. We want to give them their due.
Speaker 2: That was so beautiful. I just I just see a
Speaker 2: moment right now.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Okay, you playing what about you?
Speaker 2: I echo everything you just said one hundred percent. Do
Speaker 2: you remember in twenty twenty and everyone was like reckoning. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it was a time, and I'm glad it's over home.
Speaker 2: That was one of the times I was like, this
Speaker 2: is gonna be in a history bookstore. It felt like
Speaker 2: change was possible, like everything could change in that year,
Speaker 2: and I mean some things did, but I vantaged point.
Speaker 2: A lot of things went back to how they were,
Speaker 2: including the attention black stories were receiving. So for me,
Speaker 2: when thinking about this podcast and planning and creating it
Speaker 2: with you, that Tony Morrison quote was really on my
Speaker 2: mind the whole time.
Speaker 1: Which quarter are you talking about, you know, the one.
Speaker 2: Let me make sure I'm saying it right. If there's
Speaker 2: a book that you want to read but it hasn't
Speaker 2: been written yet, then you must write it. So I
Speaker 2: took that advice, but I applied it to podcasts selfishly.
Speaker 2: I want to listen to this podcast because I haven't
Speaker 2: heard anything like it yet. Basically, I was sick and
Speaker 2: tired of being sick and tired. Okay, Fanny Lou Mississippi.
Speaker 1: Ganggang Jackson, stand up.
Speaker 2: But seriously on themes here because it was its time.
Speaker 2: There accounts podcasts out there, true enough and everything else
Speaker 2: to take our attention. Lord knows, I'm addicted to TikTok,
Speaker 2: But what I'm particularly looking forward to is adding to
Speaker 2: the collective archive of black storytelling because there's so many
Speaker 2: black storytellers out there, so many podcasters doing their things,
Speaker 2: you know, and as a bookstore owner, I'm always surprised
Speaker 2: when I find something that's new to me that's so
Speaker 2: good but for whatever reason, has fallen off of the
Speaker 2: public's radar if it was ever on there to begin with.
Speaker 2: There's so many books like from the twenties thirties forties
Speaker 2: that black people wrote that are amazing? Have it heard
Speaker 2: of them? Never heard of this man? Who is that man?
Speaker 2: Sorry to that man? But enough exposition. Let's get into
Speaker 2: this first episode.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's do it. So what are we talking about today?
Speaker 2: All stories have a beginning, and all.
Speaker 1: Good stories have good beginnings.
Speaker 2: So today we're specifically looking at the first episodes of
Speaker 2: TV shows that made us watch the series all the
Speaker 2: way through. Slightly embarrassing. Fun fact about me, I get
Speaker 2: weirdly attached to the fictional characters for my favorite TV shows,
Speaker 2: and that attachment usually happens the first time I encounter them.
Speaker 1: I don't think that's embarrassing. There is something about going
Speaker 1: on a journey with an especially a lovable character, so
Speaker 1: I'm the same way too.
Speaker 2: Beyond our emotional attachment, there are also some technical elements
Speaker 2: that draw us into a stories world by design.
Speaker 1: What are those technical elements?
Speaker 2: You know? Characters, setup, answering the question why now, like why.
Speaker 1: Is the story starting at this particular point in time?
Speaker 2: Yep? Then of course, conflict and setting up for the
Speaker 2: rest of the series.
Speaker 1: Okay, so a reason for folks to keep watching along.
Speaker 2: Mm hm because we all know there's plenty of media
Speaker 2: to engage with, so folks are not about to sit
Speaker 2: around watching something that doesn't capture their attention. Ter Ray
Speaker 2: has a good write up on pilots on her masterclass.
Speaker 2: But yeah, as we're starting on our on theme journey
Speaker 2: with all the emotions and feelings that come with beginning
Speaker 2: something new, let's go rewatch the first episodes of our
Speaker 2: favorite tales and put ourselves back in the state of
Speaker 2: mind we were in when we first watched them.
Speaker 1: So we'll meet back here after the break.
Speaker 2: And we're back.
Speaker 1: So what episode did you watch?
Speaker 2: I watched the first episode of The Abbot Elementary. Have
Speaker 2: you seen it?
Speaker 1: I haven't, but I've heard great things about it.
Speaker 2: What about you? What did you watch?
Speaker 1: I watched I May Destroy You? Have you seen that?
Speaker 2: I haven't, but I do know MICHAELA. Cole and her
Speaker 2: cheekbones are the star.
Speaker 1: That is true. She is also the writer, the co director,
Speaker 1: and the executive producer of the show.
Speaker 2: Okay, you better get me together. She's ad just a star,
Speaker 2: you know, all in the day's work for her. So
Speaker 2: from what I know about I May Destroy You, it
Speaker 2: sounds like we watched very different shows that sounds about
Speaker 2: right for us.
Speaker 1: It is very typical of us always doing the opposite
Speaker 1: of each other.
Speaker 2: Okay, so fill me in and anyone else who hasn't
Speaker 2: watched I may destroy you give us a little synopsis
Speaker 2: and the premise of the show, and you better say
Speaker 2: spoil alert if you've got to spoil some Okay.
Speaker 1: So spoilers constitute different things for different people. So I'm
Speaker 1: just going to go ahead and say we have now
Speaker 1: stepped into the spoiler alert, so be prepared, be prepared
Speaker 1: to have some spoilers. Also, I will give a content
Speaker 1: warning here because there is subject matter around rape. So
Speaker 1: if you're sensitive to that topic, you can go ahead
Speaker 1: and skip forward in this episode. Okay, So I'm going
Speaker 1: to keep it simple. MICHAELA. Cole plays Arabella, a writer
Speaker 1: who is struggling to finish her second book. She ends
Speaker 1: up realizing that someone raved her while she was out
Speaker 1: one night, but she can't remember what happened exactly. The show,
Speaker 1: which is only twelve episodes long, traces Arabella's path in
Speaker 1: the aftermath of the rape, how she responds to it,
Speaker 1: and how her friends help her through it.
Speaker 2: I'm glad to get that content warning, unfortunately, so many
Speaker 2: people can relate to that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is definitely something that is prescient and it's
Speaker 1: always a topic of discussion, and it's something that many
Speaker 1: people appreciated her really bringing up and talking about it
Speaker 1: in a way that is really nuanced and sensitive as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can imagine her perspective is one that we
Speaker 2: needed in this conversation because it's something that's talked about.
Speaker 2: But is it talked about in the right way?
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? I mean it's hard to say.
Speaker 1: It is one of those things that's hard to talk about.
Speaker 1: That's already hard because the basis of it is sex,
Speaker 1: and we already know how hard even when sex is
Speaker 1: based around pleasure, and that should be easy to talk
Speaker 1: about pleasure, right, But when it comes to something that
Speaker 1: is regarding violence, you know, that's another different level of
Speaker 1: it and also something where gender is involved, and it's
Speaker 1: just so hard to have conversations around that in spheres
Speaker 1: where all of the ways that we're talking are very
Speaker 1: truncated versions of conversations. They're small, they're short, they're snappy,
Speaker 1: and so art can really show up and do something
Speaker 1: about that because it allows us to have different interpretations,
Speaker 1: It allows us to have an enjoyment of art at
Speaker 1: the same time that we are able to think more
Speaker 1: deeply about something and maybe develop new opinions and ideas
Speaker 1: around it.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. It's not just like a tweet or a SoundBite.
Speaker 2: So with's a fresh in your mind. Give us a
Speaker 2: rundown of the first episode.
Speaker 1: Okay, so we know from the jump that Arabella as
Speaker 1: a character, she's adventurous, she's driven, she's fun, and she's
Speaker 1: somehow laid back and on edge at the same time.
Speaker 1: And she's a little messy as we all are, you
Speaker 1: know exactly. In her masterclass, ter Ray talks about the
Speaker 1: importance of complex, real characters, and Arabella is definitely that.
Speaker 1: She shows strength and vulnerability, she makes imperfect choices, and
Speaker 1: she loves heart throughout it all. So the show starts
Speaker 1: off with her returning to her hometown, which is London
Speaker 1: after a quick hop skip over to Italy to link
Speaker 1: with the guy.
Speaker 2: They'll find me here because they think I'm working.
Speaker 1: Just show them what you've done so for So.
Speaker 2: Why I'm saying is what side she looks like from
Speaker 2: know what I'm done here is full.
Speaker 1: She speaks for a dick. But the thing is she
Speaker 1: was supposed to be there working on her second book,
Speaker 1: which her deadline for is fast approaching, and she plans
Speaker 1: on pulling this all nighter to write, but she ends
Speaker 1: up taking a break to party with her friends and
Speaker 1: finish her draft, which her agents are not super impressed
Speaker 1: by the end. By the way, but Arabella is clearly
Speaker 1: feeling out of black after her night out. She does
Speaker 1: end up finding her way back home after getting a
Speaker 1: little help navigating from a fan who is really seeming
Speaker 1: super thirsty and a little over zealous, but she was
Speaker 1: a fan nonetheless, and she was helpful. But Arabella arrived
Speaker 1: home and immediately remembered that she had been raped while
Speaker 1: she was out, And then the episode ends.
Speaker 2: Do you remember what was going through your mind when
Speaker 2: you first saw the episode? White emotions were coming up
Speaker 2: for you?
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I don't even know how much I
Speaker 1: had been primed to watch the show. I do like
Speaker 1: going into things without knowledge of them, so I think
Speaker 1: it was pretty heavy for me, like as a writer,
Speaker 1: also being able to relate to the struggles of writing,
Speaker 1: which is in itself a process that is that can
Speaker 1: be super vulnerable in lots of ways, and you're already
Speaker 1: participating in a sort of shedding of yourself something where
Speaker 1: you have to open your heart, you have to think,
Speaker 1: you have to think about things deeply.
Speaker 2: You know, you're forced to think thinking deeply.
Speaker 1: We say, as the host of this podcast about thinking
Speaker 1: deeply about the story, thinking you're in that zone and
Speaker 1: you're very open. You know, you're you're like, you have
Speaker 1: all these wounds all over you already sometimes in the
Speaker 1: process of writing, especially something like a book. So I
Speaker 1: think thinking about that and just being able to see
Speaker 1: the full breath of her character as a black woman
Speaker 1: who was allowed to make mistakes, who were allowed to
Speaker 1: be like girl, you could have done better, and also
Speaker 1: like girl, us saying to ourselves, me saying to myself,
Speaker 1: look at all of these very real societal and systemic
Speaker 1: issues that she's dealing with too, that she's handling in
Speaker 1: a way that I don't know if I would handle.
Speaker 1: So I have many feelings about it when I first
Speaker 1: saw the episode, I do know that I wanted to
Speaker 1: watch the rest of the show, and I will say
Speaker 1: that it does help that the show is only twelve
Speaker 1: episodes long, because if I look at a show and
Speaker 1: I'm like it's eight, it's ten, it's twelve episodes, you
Speaker 1: don't have to put that much investment into it. And
Speaker 1: it wasn't even from that perspective necessarily that I was
Speaker 1: thinking of it, because I was enjoying the experience of
Speaker 1: watching the show. So it was more like, oh, we
Speaker 1: got twelve episodes, let's go, and let's keep going and
Speaker 1: watching this. And I will also say that it was
Speaker 1: definitely helpful to put some space in between the episodes
Speaker 1: rather than watching them all at one time, because the
Speaker 1: subject matter can be triggering in different ways or can
Speaker 1: just bring up a lot of different kinds of emotions.
Speaker 1: So I knew that after watching that first episode that
Speaker 1: I was like, Oho, okay, okay, that message has been
Speaker 1: received and maybe I need to let it sit for
Speaker 1: a little bit before I go into the second episode.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, you talked about her
Speaker 2: being a writer, and you're a writer, and you identified
Speaker 2: with the vulnerability that comes with that, and then also
Speaker 2: she's a black woman. Do you think that the feelings
Speaker 2: that came up came up more easily because you were
Speaker 2: able to identify with the main character, like squarely see
Speaker 2: yourself and this person shoes.
Speaker 1: I think so. I think there's always a sort of
Speaker 1: distance that you have with the character that you're watching
Speaker 1: on television, not just be because they're fictional, but because
Speaker 1: they're drawn not to be you. You know, there are
Speaker 1: different ways in which I would differ, and that can
Speaker 1: make a viewing experience be so much more rich because
Speaker 1: you're like, I would never do that, like or wow,
Speaker 1: what if I did do that? You know, you can
Speaker 1: have differences and be able to imagine yourself in those situations.
Speaker 1: But I do think when it's specifically a black character
Speaker 1: or a black woman character, that there's something in me
Speaker 1: that really wants to root for them, like I will
Speaker 1: make an excuse for everything that I feel like they
Speaker 1: did wrong.
Speaker 2: And that's.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I will I will be on their
Speaker 1: side a lot more easily, I think, or at least
Speaker 1: it can be like that for me sometimes.
Speaker 2: Like you have more empathy for them, Yes.
Speaker 1: I would. I would say that I have more empathy,
Speaker 1: more length, more grace, more hope, all of those those
Speaker 1: great feelings.
Speaker 2: That's interesting because I think as Black Americans growing up,
Speaker 2: we're taught at early age to identify with white characters.
Speaker 2: Know whether it's through like the classic Disney movies or
Speaker 2: even the majority of books assigned to us in public school.
Speaker 2: So when there is a black character that you see
Speaker 2: like you see yourself or at least someone that you
Speaker 2: love in them, and then that attachment and those emotions
Speaker 2: are different, at least for me, and it sounds like
Speaker 2: maybe similar for you in this case with I May
Speaker 2: Destroy You.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so. I definitely can relate to this
Speaker 1: idea as a Black American of being taught to identify
Speaker 1: with white characters, but ashamedly I don't even know if
Speaker 1: that's a word, but it's about to be today. I
Speaker 1: definitely would imagine default white characters a lot of the
Speaker 1: time because I was so immersed in so many worlds
Speaker 1: where I was imagining white characters. So it is where
Speaker 1: they are a black main character and you see them
Speaker 1: traversing their ways through different situations and thinking and being
Speaker 1: complex and doing things that are in opposition in one moment,
Speaker 1: doing something that seems out of character based on what
Speaker 1: you have already assumed about them so far. It's really refreshing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that main character energy, Like you get to see
Speaker 2: them be super complex, like even with white shows that
Speaker 2: I really like, I found myself identifying with the supporting
Speaker 2: characters like, you know, I love the office back in
Speaker 2: the day, and everybody else don't do that. But I
Speaker 2: never identified with Michael the manager, the boss, like he
Speaker 2: was funny. He was a terrible manager. I saw many
Speaker 2: Michaels in my career. But when I watched the show
Speaker 2: and I saw Stanley, I was like, Stanley is me
Speaker 2: and I am Stanley.
Speaker 1: So Stanley, he's the black guy who took naps during
Speaker 1: work and left right on time.
Speaker 2: Yes, yep, and that's me. That's me all day, every day.
Speaker 2: But back to I may destroy you looking back, why
Speaker 2: did you keep watching the show? And it wasn't a
Speaker 2: I started this show but never finished it type situation.
Speaker 1: So, first of all, it's not hard to watch michaela
Speaker 1: Cole do anything. So I knew that I was going
Speaker 1: to enjoy the rest of the show based on the
Speaker 1: first episode, of course, but also just based on the
Speaker 1: history of MICHAELA Cole's work, and I it is one
Speaker 1: of those ironic feelings to where it's something that I
Speaker 1: know that I'm watching that is hard subject matter for
Speaker 1: me to watch in moments, especially not knowing what's going
Speaker 1: to happen next. But at the same time, it is
Speaker 1: enjoyable to watch because there is not just focus on
Speaker 1: assault and on violence, but there's also focus on her friendships.
Speaker 1: There's focus on moments of brightness, even if that's just
Speaker 1: small moments of gritty humor, those things still do show up.
Speaker 1: So even though a lot of it is dark, there
Speaker 1: is still balance in the things that are talked about
Speaker 1: in the sweetness in the familiarity of black friendships. First
Speaker 1: of all, of how they show how black people show
Speaker 1: up for other black people even when the relationships are complicated.
Speaker 1: So even when spilled alert in the show, when social
Speaker 1: media starts to become an issue, it's still it happens
Speaker 1: in friendships. You know, there are things that come between
Speaker 1: us that break us down, that we get through that
Speaker 1: may be petty, but we still argue over that. We
Speaker 1: when we become jealous of friends maybe you know, different
Speaker 1: situations that happen within friendships and also within sexual and
Speaker 1: romantic relationships. So it's a multi layered show which has
Speaker 1: a lot of different elements in it that allow it
Speaker 1: to be enjoyable even when we're having these revelatory moments
Speaker 1: within that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it sounds like it really captured you with
Speaker 2: the complexity of you know, a world that looks like
Speaker 2: the real world. I'm doing air quotes there. But you know,
Speaker 2: sometimes you watch a show and even if you like it,
Speaker 2: you're just like, this could never happen. But with I
Speaker 2: may destroy you. And it sounds like she's kind of
Speaker 2: an emerging, kind of well known writer, someone in the
Speaker 2: early stages of their career, but has a lot of
Speaker 2: other stuff going on, Like she's just not set up
Speaker 2: living the life of luxury, so she still has like
Speaker 2: real stuff to contend with. I think you convinced me
Speaker 2: to watch it. I was a little hesitant because I
Speaker 2: did hear that it was dealing with sexual assault.
Speaker 1: So yeah, and it's no shame in taking your time
Speaker 1: to watch something. I mean, we, like you said, we
Speaker 1: are in the age of having many, many things in
Speaker 1: media that we are able to consume. So tell me
Speaker 1: and all of the other people about Abbot Elementary my pleasure.
Speaker 2: I love this show, but I have to profess my
Speaker 2: love after this ad break and we're back. I love
Speaker 2: this show.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I've been with miss Quintus since she was making skits.
Speaker 1: In a large corps A large You got money, he
Speaker 1: got money, get it all more.
Speaker 2: I wasn't expecting to love the show like I do.
Speaker 2: Like I expected to like it. You know, I expect
Speaker 2: to support my girl no matter if I didn't like it.
Speaker 2: But you know, it was advertised as a sitcom, and
Speaker 2: I am not a sitcom girly. I usually find them
Speaker 2: a bit corny. But you know I was gonna tune
Speaker 2: in no matter what, support my girl. Okay, okay, But
Speaker 2: so for the uninitiated, Abbot Elementary is about a group
Speaker 2: of teachers and an underfund school in Philadelphia and how
Speaker 2: they navigate teaching their students with limited resources. It's like
Speaker 2: mockumentary style, like The Office, and it's a comedy. The
Speaker 2: interactions between the teachers and the commentary that the students
Speaker 2: provide is hilarious. Like living and working in poverty isn't funny,
Speaker 2: fair enough, but the situations within that environment do get
Speaker 2: kind of hilarious.
Speaker 1: Okay. So, Katie, looking back at that first episode, what
Speaker 1: was going on in it and how were you reacting
Speaker 1: to it?
Speaker 2: So we meet Janine, the main character played by Quinta.
Speaker 2: She's in her second year of teaching and I describe
Speaker 2: her as earnest, eager, even And you know, I've definitely
Speaker 2: been that girl. I'm embarrassed by how ernest I've been
Speaker 2: in the past. So she's definitely in her earnest eager
Speaker 2: era and she's not embarrassed yet. We also meet other characters,
Speaker 2: including other teachers, the principal, the janitor, a sub and
Speaker 2: some of the students.
Speaker 1: It's giving ensemble casts.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and they work really well together. So the
Speaker 2: first episode were introduced to the cast and the overarching
Speaker 2: conflict in the show, which is the school not having
Speaker 2: enough funding to get the things they need for their students.
Speaker 2: In this case, it's the rugs for the classroom, like
Speaker 2: you know, the storytime rug. So Janine our eager mcbeever
Speaker 2: gets the principal to put an emergency funding request to
Speaker 2: the district, which is approved, but then the principal misappropriates
Speaker 2: those funds to get a sign on the outside of
Speaker 2: school that includes a nearly life sized picture of herself.
Speaker 1: A plastic sign. Thank god for the school district, because
Speaker 1: they gave us three thousand dollars and I had to
Speaker 1: spend all of it. You've spent all of the money
Speaker 1: on this rushed up. Can you believe it's quality? Dang?
Speaker 2: But not not all is lost, a veteran teacher calls
Speaker 2: in a favor and gets free Philadelphia Eagles rugs for
Speaker 2: the classrooms. Instead, the teachers were able to subvert the
Speaker 2: system and authority to provide for their students.
Speaker 1: Okay, so how did you feel watching it?
Speaker 2: I felt two ways, like as someone watching a new
Speaker 2: show and if someone watching a creator do something that
Speaker 2: could catapult their career. So from the standpoint of watching
Speaker 2: a new show, I felt like, these people are fun,
Speaker 2: They're a good team, they work well together. You know,
Speaker 2: I had my eyes peeled for a budding romance.
Speaker 1: Of course you did.
Speaker 2: And I felt really safe watching the show. I knew
Speaker 2: there was going to be conflict because that comes with storytelling, right,
Speaker 2: But I didn't anticipate being traumatized or any jump scares
Speaker 2: or heart wrenching plot twist. It was just a wholesome,
Speaker 2: non corny, funny TV show and I felt warm and
Speaker 2: ready to see what happened next.
Speaker 1: Okay, so I am very interested in using you using
Speaker 1: that word safe. So what does it mean to you
Speaker 1: to feel safe watching a show? Because I you know,
Speaker 1: I'm a horror girly, so a lot of things I
Speaker 1: watched I know that I'm not going to be in
Speaker 1: a safe environment when I step into that world. So
Speaker 1: what is it about you and your experience of enjoying
Speaker 1: viewing things that you want to feel safe in and
Speaker 1: that does make you feel safe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good question. So I'm not a horror girly,
Speaker 2: but I also am a thriller girly. So I do
Speaker 2: like stories that don't provide that safety. But with a
Speaker 2: sitcom focused on black people, especially black kids is in
Speaker 2: the school, like the kids are all around, I didn't
Speaker 2: want to see anything that was going to make me
Speaker 2: sad and I saw like on Twitter, people were like, Quinca,
Speaker 2: you should have a school shooting episode, Like be fucking
Speaker 2: for real? Who needs to see that? Like we see
Speaker 2: that on the news every time we turn on the TV.
Speaker 1: And some somehow, some way that people always want the drama.
Speaker 2: Yeah, some of the episodes get very awkward, but it's
Speaker 2: never like that.
Speaker 1: It's like.
Speaker 2: It's on a good level for me for what it is.
Speaker 2: I'm not coming to Abbot Elementary to cry, you know
Speaker 2: what I'm saying, Like, I'm not coming to Abbit Elementary
Speaker 2: to be staring at the screen a minute after the
Speaker 2: show ends with my mouth wide open, like, I just
Speaker 2: want to have fun. Let's have a vibe. That's all
Speaker 2: I need.
Speaker 1: That's real. I respect that. And so when you say
Speaker 1: you're watching Quinta at the same time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, like for a lot of shows, I don't
Speaker 2: really know or care who created it as long as
Speaker 2: it's entertaining. But for Abbot, I knew it was miss
Speaker 2: Quinta's and seeing her transition from viral videos to working
Speaker 2: at BuzzFeed and now she has a show on ABC,
Speaker 2: it was like witnessing a very pivotal point in her
Speaker 2: evolution as a creator and storyteller. And I don't know
Speaker 2: what's in the future for Quinta. I believe a lot
Speaker 2: of good things, and I believe Abbot will be the
Speaker 2: conduit that will open a lot of those doors for
Speaker 2: those cool opportunities coming for her. So I think I
Speaker 2: just felt like a sense of wonder and endless possibility.
Speaker 2: I felt excited for her, I felt hopeful for her.
Speaker 2: I was just like, go Quinta, goll Quinta, Go Quinta.
Speaker 1: That's still interesting to me because we're talking about first episodes,
Speaker 1: but you're also kind of talking about these premieres for people,
Speaker 1: and of course there's work that's leading up to it,
Speaker 1: but pivotal moments of change of new beginnings for people.
Speaker 1: So if you see that happening at the same time
Speaker 1: for a creator of a show, especially if they're just
Speaker 1: so integral in something that so many people end up
Speaker 1: loving and really admiring, that work at the same time,
Speaker 1: and it's kind of like you're starting something with them,
Speaker 1: and I can imagine that feels really good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like I was there episode one before the Emmy.
Speaker 1: Now that's a flex. I'd never heard not episode one,
Speaker 1: not day one episode and I know you did some
Speaker 1: work before then. Yeah, I didn't I know about you did,
Speaker 1: but I caught up. I caught up. Okay, I got
Speaker 1: there ually.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's how it matters.
Speaker 1: So it's like you were watching Janine the fictional character
Speaker 1: and Quinta the real person at the same time and
Speaker 1: feeling different things.
Speaker 2: For them, different but similar to I think that Uinta,
Speaker 2: like Jeanine, has a really good team that really works
Speaker 2: well together, else the show wouldn't be garnering the attention
Speaker 2: and getting the reaction from fans that it has. I
Speaker 2: wonder if you had similar thoughts about Michayla the person
Speaker 2: and Arabella and I may destroy you.
Speaker 1: Can you tell me more about what you mean by
Speaker 1: similar thoughts?
Speaker 2: Yeah, like, did you see Mikayla in a pivotal point
Speaker 2: of her career as you were watching Arabella go through
Speaker 2: her struggles or did you just focused on the character.
Speaker 1: So I did know that there was a history of
Speaker 1: Michayla Cole herself being sexually assaulted, and that kind of
Speaker 1: that had a lot to do with why she created
Speaker 1: this show, But I wasn't so much focused on MICHAELA
Speaker 1: Cole in real life and what was happening with Arabella,
Speaker 1: even though there was that intrinsic link to MICHAELA Cole
Speaker 1: the real person and her character, and of course the
Speaker 1: element of her being an artist in the show as well,
Speaker 1: that because she was a writer, But I didn't necessarily
Speaker 1: see or think about as I was watching the show,
Speaker 1: And maybe that has something to do with it wasn't
Speaker 1: so humor based. You know, you were watching something that
Speaker 1: was sick. I was watching something that had humorous moments,
Speaker 1: but that was about the drama more so, even though
Speaker 1: it did have lighter moments in it as well. So
Speaker 1: maybe it had something to do with that, and that's
Speaker 1: why I was able to separate those two worlds.
Speaker 2: M I'm like, oh, you said this is so great,
Speaker 2: You're gonna do great, good job. Quld do a good job?
Speaker 2: Like I think about the person behind it, because there's
Speaker 2: it takes so much to create art. It does, and
Speaker 2: so I'm I'll think about that, like, oh, like she
Speaker 2: really worked hard. Like this is beautiful cinematography, this writing
Speaker 2: is great. I'm really not in it, you know what
Speaker 2: I'm saying. I'm distracted think about everything else. But I
Speaker 2: I like that you're able to immerse yourself completely. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's the I think it's the yoga. It's that, you know, I.
Speaker 1: Try to take it one step at a time. Be
Speaker 1: here now, I'm in the moment.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm curious as we wrap up our first episode,
Speaker 2: how does this beginning feel for you?
Speaker 1: You mean, begetting this podcast? Yeah, it feels great. First
Speaker 1: of all, I love starting new things with you, Katie.
Speaker 1: That feels good, doesn't it. Yeah? I mean we're our
Speaker 1: own two person cast of characters here, starting crew, a
Speaker 1: monthly crew, starting our own thing. I love that we
Speaker 1: are able to start something together because we have so
Speaker 1: much more ahead of us, right, so we know that
Speaker 1: when we start something new, that that means that there
Speaker 1: will be many, many other things in the future, that
Speaker 1: there is potential for growth and there is potential for new,
Speaker 1: unexpected things to happen. And I think that's the case
Speaker 1: with first episodes as well. It's like there's that big
Speaker 1: and like really bubbly feeling of anticipation of not knowing
Speaker 1: what's going to happen next, and in shows not knowing
Speaker 1: and also being excited because you don't know what's going
Speaker 1: to happen next, because the world is your oyster and
Speaker 1: we're sharpening our oyster nive.
Speaker 2: Come on, Zora. I have so many feelings, even conflicting feelings.
Speaker 2: I feel hopeful. I also feel kind of nervous, you know,
Speaker 2: like hopeful that we'll create something artful and smart and
Speaker 2: every other positive adjective there is out there and it
Speaker 2: will grow in the direction it's supposed to, but also
Speaker 2: nervous because it's hard being seen trying in public, right,
Speaker 2: And that's what a podcast is. Yeah, just in someone's
Speaker 2: ears and they're in your thoughts, and it's really nerve
Speaker 2: wracking for me.
Speaker 1: I hear you, KD, I affirm that, and it is
Speaker 1: I think that is the pain of being an artist
Speaker 1: in general too, where you try in public, but there's
Speaker 1: no way we can ever get around that, right, Going
Speaker 1: back to this idea, if there's something you want to
Speaker 1: see in the world, then you have to write it.
Speaker 1: It's also like when there is no writer who says
Speaker 1: when they're finished with their book that there's nothing they
Speaker 1: would change about it. But there is some point in
Speaker 1: that process where you have to let go of the thing.
Speaker 1: You have to release it to people because you're writing it.
Speaker 1: It wasn't meant for you to hold on too. If
Speaker 1: it was a thing you weren't planning on holding onto,
Speaker 1: you wanted to share it with the world, and you
Speaker 1: wanted to share it with the world for a reason,
Speaker 1: So trying in public, that's also part of the process,
Speaker 1: and that process is just as important as the finished product.
Speaker 1: And with first episodes as in TV shows, as this
Speaker 1: is a first episode as well, we have to remember
Speaker 1: that there is more to come, and that there in
Speaker 1: lies more potential for change, more potential for progress, and
Speaker 1: that things don't have to be one hundred percent perfect
Speaker 1: and beautiful for you to release them. You know, we're
Speaker 1: all figuring things out as we go along. That is
Speaker 1: applicable in our art, but that's also applicable in our
Speaker 1: lives in general.
Speaker 2: Something I definitely need to work on because I'm a
Speaker 2: don't put it out till it's perfect girl.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: And that's how I'll be doing It.
Speaker 1: Came back to bite you.
Speaker 2: It's like I need to be perfect, but then like,
Speaker 2: I'm also not a perfections so I was like never
Speaker 2: going to get perfect, so it's not gonna happen. That's
Speaker 2: why I have you to push me, and I will
Speaker 2: to be better, be best.
Speaker 1: And I will.
Speaker 2: Well, it's about that time at the end of every
Speaker 2: episode we'll give credit to a person, place, thing, idea,
Speaker 2: whatever so eaves Who or what are you giving credit
Speaker 2: to today?
Speaker 1: I am going to give credit to MICHAELA. Cole's book Misfits.
Speaker 1: As you know, Katie, because you've known me for a
Speaker 1: very long time, I can often feel like a misfit,
Speaker 1: often feel very unconventional, and so MICHAELA. Cole's book Misfits
Speaker 1: was a short read based on a speech that she gave.
Speaker 1: But I've found that it's one of those things that
Speaker 1: you can find these little small nuggets of inspiration and
Speaker 1: just encouragement to stand the path you're on, and be
Speaker 1: true to yourself and be fearless in the way that
Speaker 1: you present your offerings to the world, and exist and
Speaker 1: express yourself in the world.
Speaker 2: Love it good turn. I think I'm willing to give
Speaker 2: credit to all the black podcasters that came before us. Specifically,
Speaker 2: I'm thinking about Heaven and Tracy in this moment. They
Speaker 2: were the first. Another Round was the first podcast that
Speaker 2: I was like waiting for the podcast to drop, like
Speaker 2: that's what type of listener I was, and they just
Speaker 2: showed me. It's just like two black women can make
Speaker 2: a show like that's fine, that's cool, people will listen,
Speaker 2: people will love it. So yeah, I want to give
Speaker 2: them credit. Hope they're doing well in their pursuits now.
Speaker 2: But I definitely go back to the Another Round catalog
Speaker 2: from time to time and reminisce.
Speaker 1: And I love that. So this was our first episode
Speaker 1: in a beginning for all of us together. But this
Speaker 1: won't be the last time that you all hear from us,
Speaker 1: So we'll see you again next week. On Theme is
Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio and Fairweather Friends Media. This episode
Speaker 1: was written by Eves Jeffco and Katie Mitchell. It was
Speaker 1: edited and produced Tari Harrison. Follow us on Instagram at
Speaker 1: on themeshow. You can also send us an email at
Speaker 1: helloat ontheme dot show. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.