1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:04,520 Speaker 1: On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and fair Weather 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: Friends Media. Though the looker likes didn't share biology, they 3 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:35,200 Speaker 1: shared a love of stories that bonded them. Huh. 4 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 2: I wanted to have a memorable first line of our podcast. 5 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: Oh okay, like when twenty four was spiteful. 6 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 2: Or they shoot the white girl first. 7 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: I was borned by the river. 8 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 2: It's like a jungle. Sometimes it makes me wonder how 9 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 2: I keep from going under. 10 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:53,560 Speaker 1: And those are some iconic lines. 11 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, when the grill speaks to people, listen, an elder 12 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 2: whose memory held a library miss folk tales, community histories, epics, 13 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:04,319 Speaker 2: and legends. 14 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 1: We have always always had many stories to tell, stories 15 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: of our highest highs and our lowest lows. 16 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 2: Our hearts cradled by our mama, daddy, sister, cousin, friend, Our. 17 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: Science and magic wielded by tender hands. 18 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 2: Our names and languages snatched, our links to our history, 19 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 2: our stories, ourselves sold. 20 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 1: Through it all, our mouths, our memories remained. 21 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 2: The people could fly, and it turns out the stories 22 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 2: could too. 23 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: Gospel music's redemptive. 24 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 2: Arc, blaxplotations, hyperbole, the quick wit. 25 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: Of playing the dozens and roasting. 26 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 2: The family history baked into recipes passed down from generation 27 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 2: to generation. 28 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 1: Ida's investigations of strange fruit, a reality that's hard to swallow. 29 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 2: Tony's loving hands writing about the Black women in America. 30 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 1: The subway performer who's larger than life, movements and familiar 31 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: cadence that are all but shouting. Do you see me? 32 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: Because I'm right here. 33 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 2: No matter the form, topic or venue, Black storytelling is 34 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 2: all about bearing witness. Black stories are the reason why 35 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 2: I hesitate to kill spiders even though they scare me, 36 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:21,239 Speaker 2: and why I know what nineteen seventies Jackson, Mississippi looks 37 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 2: like from a primary source. 38 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: Black stories are the reason why I feel empowered to 39 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: be a storyteller and join this podcast. Black stories are 40 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 1: the default, the meaningful and profound, the mundane and petty, 41 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: stories that keep us up at night, and stories that 42 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:38,799 Speaker 1: make us roll our eyes. 43 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 2: We're taking a second look and questioning the consensus. We're 44 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 2: pulling stories from the archive that you've never heard of 45 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 2: before and won't be able to shut up about afterward. 46 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 2: I'm Katie and I'm Eves, and this is on theme 47 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 2: with Katie and. 48 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 1: Eves today's episode. 49 00:02:55,840 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 2: This is the beginning. So why are we like? Why Now, first. 50 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 1: Of all, we love black stories and we think, you know, 51 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 1: black stories deserve the spotlight all of the time. True, Okay, 52 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 1: not just during Black History Month or around June teenth, 53 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 1: Not definitely, Not in the aftermath of a tragedy. Black 54 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: stories are more than a fad or fodder for opportunistic outsiders. 55 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,799 Speaker 1: We know them, we love them, and of course we're 56 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 1: moved by them. They change our lives, so we want 57 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: to share them. We want to give them their due. 58 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:32,679 Speaker 2: That was so beautiful. I just I just see a 59 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 2: moment right now. 60 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: Thank you. Okay, you playing what about you? 61 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 2: I echo everything you just said one hundred percent. Do 62 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 2: you remember in twenty twenty and everyone was like reckoning. Yeah, 63 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 2: it was a time, and I'm glad it's over home. 64 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 2: That was one of the times I was like, this 65 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 2: is gonna be in a history bookstore. It felt like 66 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 2: change was possible, like everything could change in that year, 67 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 2: and I mean some things did, but I vantaged point. 68 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 2: A lot of things went back to how they were, 69 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 2: including the attention black stories were receiving. So for me, 70 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 2: when thinking about this podcast and planning and creating it 71 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 2: with you, that Tony Morrison quote was really on my 72 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 2: mind the whole time. 73 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 1: Which quarter are you talking about, you know, the one. 74 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 2: Let me make sure I'm saying it right. If there's 75 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 2: a book that you want to read but it hasn't 76 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 2: been written yet, then you must write it. So I 77 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:25,600 Speaker 2: took that advice, but I applied it to podcasts selfishly. 78 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 2: I want to listen to this podcast because I haven't 79 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 2: heard anything like it yet. Basically, I was sick and 80 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 2: tired of being sick and tired. Okay, Fanny Lou Mississippi. 81 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: Ganggang Jackson, stand up. 82 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 2: But seriously on themes here because it was its time. 83 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 2: There accounts podcasts out there, true enough and everything else 84 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 2: to take our attention. Lord knows, I'm addicted to TikTok, 85 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 2: But what I'm particularly looking forward to is adding to 86 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 2: the collective archive of black storytelling because there's so many 87 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 2: black storytellers out there, so many podcasters doing their things, 88 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 2: you know, and as a bookstore owner, I'm always surprised 89 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 2: when I find something that's new to me that's so 90 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 2: good but for whatever reason, has fallen off of the 91 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:13,159 Speaker 2: public's radar if it was ever on there to begin with. 92 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 2: There's so many books like from the twenties thirties forties 93 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 2: that black people wrote that are amazing? Have it heard 94 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 2: of them? Never heard of this man? Who is that man? 95 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 2: Sorry to that man? But enough exposition. Let's get into 96 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:25,919 Speaker 2: this first episode. 97 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: Okay, let's do it. So what are we talking about today? 98 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 2: All stories have a beginning, and all. 99 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: Good stories have good beginnings. 100 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 2: So today we're specifically looking at the first episodes of 101 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 2: TV shows that made us watch the series all the 102 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 2: way through. Slightly embarrassing. Fun fact about me, I get 103 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 2: weirdly attached to the fictional characters for my favorite TV shows, 104 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,159 Speaker 2: and that attachment usually happens the first time I encounter them. 105 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 1: I don't think that's embarrassing. There is something about going 106 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 1: on a journey with an especially a lovable character, so 107 00:05:58,839 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: I'm the same way too. 108 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 2: Beyond our emotional attachment, there are also some technical elements 109 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 2: that draw us into a stories world by design. 110 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: What are those technical elements? 111 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 2: You know? Characters, setup, answering the question why now, like why. 112 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: Is the story starting at this particular point in time? 113 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 2: Yep? Then of course, conflict and setting up for the 114 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 2: rest of the series. 115 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 1: Okay, so a reason for folks to keep watching along. 116 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 2: Mm hm because we all know there's plenty of media 117 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 2: to engage with, so folks are not about to sit 118 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:38,160 Speaker 2: around watching something that doesn't capture their attention. Ter Ray 119 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 2: has a good write up on pilots on her masterclass. 120 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 2: But yeah, as we're starting on our on theme journey 121 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 2: with all the emotions and feelings that come with beginning 122 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 2: something new, let's go rewatch the first episodes of our 123 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 2: favorite tales and put ourselves back in the state of 124 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 2: mind we were in when we first watched them. 125 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: So we'll meet back here after the break. 126 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:03,599 Speaker 2: And we're back. 127 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 1: So what episode did you watch? 128 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 2: I watched the first episode of The Abbot Elementary. Have 129 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:09,280 Speaker 2: you seen it? 130 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: I haven't, but I've heard great things about it. 131 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 2: What about you? What did you watch? 132 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: I watched I May Destroy You? Have you seen that? 133 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 2: I haven't, but I do know MICHAELA. Cole and her 134 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 2: cheekbones are the star. 135 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: That is true. She is also the writer, the co director, 136 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:26,239 Speaker 1: and the executive producer of the show. 137 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 2: Okay, you better get me together. She's ad just a star, 138 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 2: you know, all in the day's work for her. So 139 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 2: from what I know about I May Destroy You, it 140 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 2: sounds like we watched very different shows that sounds about 141 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 2: right for us. 142 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 1: It is very typical of us always doing the opposite 143 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: of each other. 144 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 2: Okay, so fill me in and anyone else who hasn't 145 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 2: watched I may destroy you give us a little synopsis 146 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 2: and the premise of the show, and you better say 147 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 2: spoil alert if you've got to spoil some Okay. 148 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 1: So spoilers constitute different things for different people. So I'm 149 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: just going to go ahead and say we have now 150 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: stepped into the spoiler alert, so be prepared, be prepared 151 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: to have some spoilers. Also, I will give a content 152 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: warning here because there is subject matter around rape. So 153 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 1: if you're sensitive to that topic, you can go ahead 154 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: and skip forward in this episode. Okay, So I'm going 155 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: to keep it simple. MICHAELA. Cole plays Arabella, a writer 156 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 1: who is struggling to finish her second book. She ends 157 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: up realizing that someone raved her while she was out 158 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: one night, but she can't remember what happened exactly. The show, 159 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:32,559 Speaker 1: which is only twelve episodes long, traces Arabella's path in 160 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: the aftermath of the rape, how she responds to it, 161 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: and how her friends help her through it. 162 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 2: I'm glad to get that content warning, unfortunately, so many 163 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 2: people can relate to that. 164 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, it is definitely something that is prescient and it's 165 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: always a topic of discussion, and it's something that many 166 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: people appreciated her really bringing up and talking about it 167 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 1: in a way that is really nuanced and sensitive as well. 168 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, I can imagine her perspective is one that we 169 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 2: needed in this conversation because it's something that's talked about. 170 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 2: But is it talked about in the right way? 171 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? I mean it's hard to say. 172 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: It is one of those things that's hard to talk about. 173 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 1: That's already hard because the basis of it is sex, 174 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 1: and we already know how hard even when sex is 175 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: based around pleasure, and that should be easy to talk 176 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: about pleasure, right, But when it comes to something that 177 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 1: is regarding violence, you know, that's another different level of 178 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: it and also something where gender is involved, and it's 179 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: just so hard to have conversations around that in spheres 180 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: where all of the ways that we're talking are very 181 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 1: truncated versions of conversations. They're small, they're short, they're snappy, 182 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: and so art can really show up and do something 183 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:55,839 Speaker 1: about that because it allows us to have different interpretations, 184 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 1: It allows us to have an enjoyment of art at 185 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 1: the same time that we are able to think more 186 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 1: deeply about something and maybe develop new opinions and ideas 187 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: around it. 188 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 2: Mm hmm. It's not just like a tweet or a SoundBite. 189 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 2: So with's a fresh in your mind. Give us a 190 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 2: rundown of the first episode. 191 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,319 Speaker 1: Okay, so we know from the jump that Arabella as 192 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: a character, she's adventurous, she's driven, she's fun, and she's 193 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: somehow laid back and on edge at the same time. 194 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 1: And she's a little messy as we all are, you 195 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: know exactly. In her masterclass, ter Ray talks about the 196 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:38,559 Speaker 1: importance of complex, real characters, and Arabella is definitely that. 197 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: She shows strength and vulnerability, she makes imperfect choices, and 198 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: she loves heart throughout it all. So the show starts 199 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,959 Speaker 1: off with her returning to her hometown, which is London 200 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:52,680 Speaker 1: after a quick hop skip over to Italy to link 201 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: with the guy. 202 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:55,440 Speaker 2: They'll find me here because they think I'm working. 203 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 1: Just show them what you've done so for So. 204 00:10:57,440 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 2: Why I'm saying is what side she looks like from 205 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 2: know what I'm done here is full. 206 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 1: She speaks for a dick. But the thing is she 207 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: was supposed to be there working on her second book, 208 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: which her deadline for is fast approaching, and she plans 209 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:13,839 Speaker 1: on pulling this all nighter to write, but she ends 210 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: up taking a break to party with her friends and 211 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 1: finish her draft, which her agents are not super impressed 212 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 1: by the end. By the way, but Arabella is clearly 213 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: feeling out of black after her night out. She does 214 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 1: end up finding her way back home after getting a 215 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 1: little help navigating from a fan who is really seeming 216 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: super thirsty and a little over zealous, but she was 217 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: a fan nonetheless, and she was helpful. But Arabella arrived 218 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 1: home and immediately remembered that she had been raped while 219 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 1: she was out, And then the episode ends. 220 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 2: Do you remember what was going through your mind when 221 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 2: you first saw the episode? White emotions were coming up 222 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 2: for you? 223 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: Well, you know, I don't even know how much I 224 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 1: had been primed to watch the show. I do like 225 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: going into things without knowledge of them, so I think 226 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 1: it was pretty heavy for me, like as a writer, 227 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:12,679 Speaker 1: also being able to relate to the struggles of writing, 228 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: which is in itself a process that is that can 229 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: be super vulnerable in lots of ways, and you're already 230 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:24,319 Speaker 1: participating in a sort of shedding of yourself something where 231 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 1: you have to open your heart, you have to think, 232 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: you have to think about things deeply. 233 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 2: You know, you're forced to think thinking deeply. 234 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:35,199 Speaker 1: We say, as the host of this podcast about thinking 235 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 1: deeply about the story, thinking you're in that zone and 236 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 1: you're very open. You know, you're you're like, you have 237 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,320 Speaker 1: all these wounds all over you already sometimes in the 238 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 1: process of writing, especially something like a book. So I 239 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:53,199 Speaker 1: think thinking about that and just being able to see 240 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: the full breath of her character as a black woman 241 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 1: who was allowed to make mistakes, who were allowed to 242 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 1: be like girl, you could have done better, and also 243 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 1: like girl, us saying to ourselves, me saying to myself, 244 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 1: look at all of these very real societal and systemic 245 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: issues that she's dealing with too, that she's handling in 246 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: a way that I don't know if I would handle. 247 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 1: So I have many feelings about it when I first 248 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 1: saw the episode, I do know that I wanted to 249 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: watch the rest of the show, and I will say 250 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: that it does help that the show is only twelve 251 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: episodes long, because if I look at a show and 252 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 1: I'm like it's eight, it's ten, it's twelve episodes, you 253 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: don't have to put that much investment into it. And 254 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 1: it wasn't even from that perspective necessarily that I was 255 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 1: thinking of it, because I was enjoying the experience of 256 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 1: watching the show. So it was more like, oh, we 257 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: got twelve episodes, let's go, and let's keep going and 258 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 1: watching this. And I will also say that it was 259 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 1: definitely helpful to put some space in between the episodes 260 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 1: rather than watching them all at one time, because the 261 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: subject matter can be triggering in different ways or can 262 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 1: just bring up a lot of different kinds of emotions. 263 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 1: So I knew that after watching that first episode that 264 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: I was like, Oho, okay, okay, that message has been 265 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 1: received and maybe I need to let it sit for 266 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: a little bit before I go into the second episode. 267 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, you talked about her 268 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 2: being a writer, and you're a writer, and you identified 269 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 2: with the vulnerability that comes with that, and then also 270 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 2: she's a black woman. Do you think that the feelings 271 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 2: that came up came up more easily because you were 272 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 2: able to identify with the main character, like squarely see 273 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 2: yourself and this person shoes. 274 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: I think so. I think there's always a sort of 275 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 1: distance that you have with the character that you're watching 276 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: on television, not just be because they're fictional, but because 277 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: they're drawn not to be you. You know, there are 278 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: different ways in which I would differ, and that can 279 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: make a viewing experience be so much more rich because 280 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 1: you're like, I would never do that, like or wow, 281 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 1: what if I did do that? You know, you can 282 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: have differences and be able to imagine yourself in those situations. 283 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: But I do think when it's specifically a black character 284 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: or a black woman character, that there's something in me 285 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: that really wants to root for them, like I will 286 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: make an excuse for everything that I feel like they 287 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 1: did wrong. 288 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 2: And that's. 289 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: I don't know. I will I will be on their 290 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: side a lot more easily, I think, or at least 291 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 1: it can be like that for me sometimes. 292 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 2: Like you have more empathy for them, Yes. 293 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 1: I would. I would say that I have more empathy, 294 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 1: more length, more grace, more hope, all of those those 295 00:15:57,960 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 1: great feelings. 296 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 2: That's interesting because I think as Black Americans growing up, 297 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 2: we're taught at early age to identify with white characters. 298 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 2: Know whether it's through like the classic Disney movies or 299 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 2: even the majority of books assigned to us in public school. 300 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 2: So when there is a black character that you see 301 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 2: like you see yourself or at least someone that you 302 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 2: love in them, and then that attachment and those emotions 303 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 2: are different, at least for me, and it sounds like 304 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 2: maybe similar for you in this case with I May 305 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 2: Destroy You. 306 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so. I definitely can relate to this 307 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: idea as a Black American of being taught to identify 308 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 1: with white characters, but ashamedly I don't even know if 309 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 1: that's a word, but it's about to be today. I 310 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 1: definitely would imagine default white characters a lot of the 311 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 1: time because I was so immersed in so many worlds 312 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 1: where I was imagining white characters. So it is where 313 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:04,159 Speaker 1: they are a black main character and you see them 314 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:10,399 Speaker 1: traversing their ways through different situations and thinking and being 315 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 1: complex and doing things that are in opposition in one moment, 316 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: doing something that seems out of character based on what 317 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:25,680 Speaker 1: you have already assumed about them so far. It's really refreshing. 318 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, that main character energy, Like you get to see 319 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,199 Speaker 2: them be super complex, like even with white shows that 320 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 2: I really like, I found myself identifying with the supporting 321 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,159 Speaker 2: characters like, you know, I love the office back in 322 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 2: the day, and everybody else don't do that. But I 323 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 2: never identified with Michael the manager, the boss, like he 324 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:53,440 Speaker 2: was funny. He was a terrible manager. I saw many 325 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 2: Michaels in my career. But when I watched the show 326 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,639 Speaker 2: and I saw Stanley, I was like, Stanley is me 327 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 2: and I am Stanley. 328 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: So Stanley, he's the black guy who took naps during 329 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,399 Speaker 1: work and left right on time. 330 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:11,120 Speaker 2: Yes, yep, and that's me. That's me all day, every day. 331 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 2: But back to I may destroy you looking back, why 332 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 2: did you keep watching the show? And it wasn't a 333 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 2: I started this show but never finished it type situation. 334 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:22,399 Speaker 1: So, first of all, it's not hard to watch michaela 335 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 1: Cole do anything. So I knew that I was going 336 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 1: to enjoy the rest of the show based on the 337 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,639 Speaker 1: first episode, of course, but also just based on the 338 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 1: history of MICHAELA Cole's work, and I it is one 339 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: of those ironic feelings to where it's something that I 340 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:40,159 Speaker 1: know that I'm watching that is hard subject matter for 341 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,200 Speaker 1: me to watch in moments, especially not knowing what's going 342 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 1: to happen next. But at the same time, it is 343 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:53,440 Speaker 1: enjoyable to watch because there is not just focus on 344 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 1: assault and on violence, but there's also focus on her friendships. 345 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:05,159 Speaker 1: There's focus on moments of brightness, even if that's just 346 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 1: small moments of gritty humor, those things still do show up. 347 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: So even though a lot of it is dark, there 348 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 1: is still balance in the things that are talked about 349 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 1: in the sweetness in the familiarity of black friendships. First 350 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: of all, of how they show how black people show 351 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:26,959 Speaker 1: up for other black people even when the relationships are complicated. 352 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 1: So even when spilled alert in the show, when social 353 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 1: media starts to become an issue, it's still it happens 354 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 1: in friendships. You know, there are things that come between 355 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: us that break us down, that we get through that 356 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,719 Speaker 1: may be petty, but we still argue over that. We 357 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: when we become jealous of friends maybe you know, different 358 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: situations that happen within friendships and also within sexual and 359 00:19:55,600 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 1: romantic relationships. So it's a multi layered show which has 360 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:06,919 Speaker 1: a lot of different elements in it that allow it 361 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:12,680 Speaker 1: to be enjoyable even when we're having these revelatory moments 362 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:13,479 Speaker 1: within that. 363 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, so it sounds like it really captured you with 364 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 2: the complexity of you know, a world that looks like 365 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,679 Speaker 2: the real world. I'm doing air quotes there. But you know, 366 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 2: sometimes you watch a show and even if you like it, 367 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:29,199 Speaker 2: you're just like, this could never happen. But with I 368 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 2: may destroy you. And it sounds like she's kind of 369 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 2: an emerging, kind of well known writer, someone in the 370 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:39,119 Speaker 2: early stages of their career, but has a lot of 371 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:41,680 Speaker 2: other stuff going on, Like she's just not set up 372 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 2: living the life of luxury, so she still has like 373 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:49,159 Speaker 2: real stuff to contend with. I think you convinced me 374 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 2: to watch it. I was a little hesitant because I 375 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 2: did hear that it was dealing with sexual assault. 376 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 1: So yeah, and it's no shame in taking your time 377 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 1: to watch something. I mean, we, like you said, we 378 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: are in the age of having many, many things in 379 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: media that we are able to consume. So tell me 380 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:08,680 Speaker 1: and all of the other people about Abbot Elementary my pleasure. 381 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 2: I love this show, but I have to profess my 382 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 2: love after this ad break and we're back. I love 383 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 2: this show. 384 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 1: You know. 385 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 2: I've been with miss Quintus since she was making skits. 386 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 1: In a large corps A large You got money, he 387 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: got money, get it all more. 388 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,399 Speaker 2: I wasn't expecting to love the show like I do. 389 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 2: Like I expected to like it. You know, I expect 390 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 2: to support my girl no matter if I didn't like it. 391 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 2: But you know, it was advertised as a sitcom, and 392 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:48,920 Speaker 2: I am not a sitcom girly. I usually find them 393 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 2: a bit corny. But you know I was gonna tune 394 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 2: in no matter what, support my girl. Okay, okay, But 395 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 2: so for the uninitiated, Abbot Elementary is about a group 396 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 2: of teachers and an underfund school in Philadelphia and how 397 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 2: they navigate teaching their students with limited resources. It's like 398 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 2: mockumentary style, like The Office, and it's a comedy. The 399 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 2: interactions between the teachers and the commentary that the students 400 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 2: provide is hilarious. Like living and working in poverty isn't funny, 401 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 2: fair enough, but the situations within that environment do get 402 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 2: kind of hilarious. 403 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,679 Speaker 1: Okay. So, Katie, looking back at that first episode, what 404 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 1: was going on in it and how were you reacting 405 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 1: to it? 406 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,639 Speaker 2: So we meet Janine, the main character played by Quinta. 407 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 2: She's in her second year of teaching and I describe 408 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 2: her as earnest, eager, even And you know, I've definitely 409 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,359 Speaker 2: been that girl. I'm embarrassed by how ernest I've been 410 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 2: in the past. So she's definitely in her earnest eager 411 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:50,639 Speaker 2: era and she's not embarrassed yet. We also meet other characters, 412 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 2: including other teachers, the principal, the janitor, a sub and 413 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:55,400 Speaker 2: some of the students. 414 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:57,639 Speaker 1: It's giving ensemble casts. 415 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and they work really well together. So the 416 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 2: first episode were introduced to the cast and the overarching 417 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:06,440 Speaker 2: conflict in the show, which is the school not having 418 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 2: enough funding to get the things they need for their students. 419 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 2: In this case, it's the rugs for the classroom, like 420 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 2: you know, the storytime rug. So Janine our eager mcbeever 421 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,879 Speaker 2: gets the principal to put an emergency funding request to 422 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 2: the district, which is approved, but then the principal misappropriates 423 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 2: those funds to get a sign on the outside of 424 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 2: school that includes a nearly life sized picture of herself. 425 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,880 Speaker 1: A plastic sign. Thank god for the school district, because 426 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:33,439 Speaker 1: they gave us three thousand dollars and I had to 427 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 1: spend all of it. You've spent all of the money 428 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: on this rushed up. Can you believe it's quality? Dang? 429 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 2: But not not all is lost, a veteran teacher calls 430 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 2: in a favor and gets free Philadelphia Eagles rugs for 431 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,680 Speaker 2: the classrooms. Instead, the teachers were able to subvert the 432 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 2: system and authority to provide for their students. 433 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: Okay, so how did you feel watching it? 434 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 2: I felt two ways, like as someone watching a new 435 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 2: show and if someone watching a creator do something that 436 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 2: could catapult their career. So from the standpoint of watching 437 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:09,920 Speaker 2: a new show, I felt like, these people are fun, 438 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 2: They're a good team, they work well together. You know, 439 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 2: I had my eyes peeled for a budding romance. 440 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: Of course you did. 441 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 2: And I felt really safe watching the show. I knew 442 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 2: there was going to be conflict because that comes with storytelling, right, 443 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 2: But I didn't anticipate being traumatized or any jump scares 444 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 2: or heart wrenching plot twist. It was just a wholesome, 445 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,919 Speaker 2: non corny, funny TV show and I felt warm and 446 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 2: ready to see what happened next. 447 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: Okay, so I am very interested in using you using 448 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: that word safe. So what does it mean to you 449 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 1: to feel safe watching a show? Because I you know, 450 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: I'm a horror girly, so a lot of things I 451 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 1: watched I know that I'm not going to be in 452 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,199 Speaker 1: a safe environment when I step into that world. So 453 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 1: what is it about you and your experience of enjoying 454 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: viewing things that you want to feel safe in and 455 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:07,639 Speaker 1: that does make you feel safe. 456 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good question. So I'm not a horror girly, 457 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 2: but I also am a thriller girly. So I do 458 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 2: like stories that don't provide that safety. But with a 459 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:24,439 Speaker 2: sitcom focused on black people, especially black kids is in 460 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 2: the school, like the kids are all around, I didn't 461 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,159 Speaker 2: want to see anything that was going to make me 462 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 2: sad and I saw like on Twitter, people were like, Quinca, 463 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,879 Speaker 2: you should have a school shooting episode, Like be fucking 464 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:38,920 Speaker 2: for real? Who needs to see that? Like we see 465 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 2: that on the news every time we turn on the TV. 466 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 1: And some somehow, some way that people always want the drama. 467 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, some of the episodes get very awkward, but it's 468 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 2: never like that. 469 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 1: It's like. 470 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 2: It's on a good level for me for what it is. 471 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:58,159 Speaker 2: I'm not coming to Abbot Elementary to cry, you know 472 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 2: what I'm saying, Like, I'm not coming to Abbit Elementary 473 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 2: to be staring at the screen a minute after the 474 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,679 Speaker 2: show ends with my mouth wide open, like, I just 475 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,399 Speaker 2: want to have fun. Let's have a vibe. That's all 476 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 2: I need. 477 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 1: That's real. I respect that. And so when you say 478 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 1: you're watching Quinta at the same time. 479 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, So, like for a lot of shows, I don't 480 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,239 Speaker 2: really know or care who created it as long as 481 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,200 Speaker 2: it's entertaining. But for Abbot, I knew it was miss 482 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,440 Speaker 2: Quinta's and seeing her transition from viral videos to working 483 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 2: at BuzzFeed and now she has a show on ABC, 484 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,439 Speaker 2: it was like witnessing a very pivotal point in her 485 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 2: evolution as a creator and storyteller. And I don't know 486 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,920 Speaker 2: what's in the future for Quinta. I believe a lot 487 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,199 Speaker 2: of good things, and I believe Abbot will be the 488 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 2: conduit that will open a lot of those doors for 489 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 2: those cool opportunities coming for her. So I think I 490 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 2: just felt like a sense of wonder and endless possibility. 491 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 2: I felt excited for her, I felt hopeful for her. 492 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:59,439 Speaker 2: I was just like, go Quinta, goll Quinta, Go Quinta. 493 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 1: That's still interesting to me because we're talking about first episodes, 494 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: but you're also kind of talking about these premieres for people, 495 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:08,239 Speaker 1: and of course there's work that's leading up to it, 496 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: but pivotal moments of change of new beginnings for people. 497 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 1: So if you see that happening at the same time 498 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 1: for a creator of a show, especially if they're just 499 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 1: so integral in something that so many people end up 500 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 1: loving and really admiring, that work at the same time, 501 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,160 Speaker 1: and it's kind of like you're starting something with them, 502 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 1: and I can imagine that feels really good. 503 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like I was there episode one before the Emmy. 504 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: Now that's a flex. I'd never heard not episode one, 505 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,439 Speaker 1: not day one episode and I know you did some 506 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: work before then. Yeah, I didn't I know about you did, 507 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 1: but I caught up. I caught up. Okay, I got 508 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:47,120 Speaker 1: there ually. 509 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's how it matters. 510 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,359 Speaker 1: So it's like you were watching Janine the fictional character 511 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 1: and Quinta the real person at the same time and 512 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: feeling different things. 513 00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 2: For them, different but similar to I think that Uinta, 514 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,160 Speaker 2: like Jeanine, has a really good team that really works 515 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,640 Speaker 2: well together, else the show wouldn't be garnering the attention 516 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 2: and getting the reaction from fans that it has. I 517 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,640 Speaker 2: wonder if you had similar thoughts about Michayla the person 518 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,359 Speaker 2: and Arabella and I may destroy you. 519 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 1: Can you tell me more about what you mean by 520 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 1: similar thoughts? 521 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:23,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, like, did you see Mikayla in a pivotal point 522 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 2: of her career as you were watching Arabella go through 523 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,959 Speaker 2: her struggles or did you just focused on the character. 524 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: So I did know that there was a history of 525 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: Michayla Cole herself being sexually assaulted, and that kind of 526 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 1: that had a lot to do with why she created 527 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 1: this show, But I wasn't so much focused on MICHAELA 528 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 1: Cole in real life and what was happening with Arabella, 529 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 1: even though there was that intrinsic link to MICHAELA Cole 530 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: the real person and her character, and of course the 531 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 1: element of her being an artist in the show as well, 532 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,720 Speaker 1: that because she was a writer, But I didn't necessarily 533 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: see or think about as I was watching the show, 534 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 1: And maybe that has something to do with it wasn't 535 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 1: so humor based. You know, you were watching something that 536 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,959 Speaker 1: was sick. I was watching something that had humorous moments, 537 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 1: but that was about the drama more so, even though 538 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 1: it did have lighter moments in it as well. So 539 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: maybe it had something to do with that, and that's 540 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 1: why I was able to separate those two worlds. 541 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 2: M I'm like, oh, you said this is so great, 542 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,480 Speaker 2: You're gonna do great, good job. Quld do a good job? 543 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 2: Like I think about the person behind it, because there's 544 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 2: it takes so much to create art. It does, and 545 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 2: so I'm I'll think about that, like, oh, like she 546 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 2: really worked hard. Like this is beautiful cinematography, this writing 547 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 2: is great. I'm really not in it, you know what 548 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 2: I'm saying. I'm distracted think about everything else. But I 549 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 2: I like that you're able to immerse yourself completely. Yeah, 550 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 2: it's the I think it's the yoga. It's that, you know, I. 551 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 1: Try to take it one step at a time. Be 552 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 1: here now, I'm in the moment. 553 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 2: Okay, I'm curious as we wrap up our first episode, 554 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 2: how does this beginning feel for you? 555 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 1: You mean, begetting this podcast? Yeah, it feels great. First 556 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 1: of all, I love starting new things with you, Katie. 557 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 1: That feels good, doesn't it. Yeah? I mean we're our 558 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 1: own two person cast of characters here, starting crew, a 559 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 1: monthly crew, starting our own thing. I love that we 560 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 1: are able to start something together because we have so 561 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: much more ahead of us, right, so we know that 562 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: when we start something new, that that means that there 563 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 1: will be many, many other things in the future, that 564 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: there is potential for growth and there is potential for new, 565 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 1: unexpected things to happen. And I think that's the case 566 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 1: with first episodes as well. It's like there's that big 567 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: and like really bubbly feeling of anticipation of not knowing 568 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 1: what's going to happen next, and in shows not knowing 569 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 1: and also being excited because you don't know what's going 570 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 1: to happen next, because the world is your oyster and 571 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 1: we're sharpening our oyster nive. 572 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:35,719 Speaker 2: Come on, Zora. I have so many feelings, even conflicting feelings. 573 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 2: I feel hopeful. I also feel kind of nervous, you know, 574 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 2: like hopeful that we'll create something artful and smart and 575 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 2: every other positive adjective there is out there and it 576 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 2: will grow in the direction it's supposed to, but also 577 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 2: nervous because it's hard being seen trying in public, right, 578 00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 2: And that's what a podcast is. Yeah, just in someone's 579 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,000 Speaker 2: ears and they're in your thoughts, and it's really nerve 580 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 2: wracking for me. 581 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: I hear you, KD, I affirm that, and it is 582 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:13,240 Speaker 1: I think that is the pain of being an artist 583 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: in general too, where you try in public, but there's 584 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 1: no way we can ever get around that, right, Going 585 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: back to this idea, if there's something you want to 586 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 1: see in the world, then you have to write it. 587 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 1: It's also like when there is no writer who says 588 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: when they're finished with their book that there's nothing they 589 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 1: would change about it. But there is some point in 590 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 1: that process where you have to let go of the thing. 591 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:41,960 Speaker 1: You have to release it to people because you're writing it. 592 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 1: It wasn't meant for you to hold on too. If 593 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 1: it was a thing you weren't planning on holding onto, 594 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: you wanted to share it with the world, and you 595 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 1: wanted to share it with the world for a reason, 596 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 1: So trying in public, that's also part of the process, 597 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 1: and that process is just as important as the finished product. 598 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,720 Speaker 1: And with first episodes as in TV shows, as this 599 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:07,680 Speaker 1: is a first episode as well, we have to remember 600 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 1: that there is more to come, and that there in 601 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 1: lies more potential for change, more potential for progress, and 602 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,520 Speaker 1: that things don't have to be one hundred percent perfect 603 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 1: and beautiful for you to release them. You know, we're 604 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,959 Speaker 1: all figuring things out as we go along. That is 605 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 1: applicable in our art, but that's also applicable in our 606 00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:31,960 Speaker 1: lives in general. 607 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:35,640 Speaker 2: Something I definitely need to work on because I'm a 608 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 2: don't put it out till it's perfect girl. 609 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:39,120 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. 610 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 2: And that's how I'll be doing It. 611 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 1: Came back to bite you. 612 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 2: It's like I need to be perfect, but then like, 613 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,240 Speaker 2: I'm also not a perfections so I was like never 614 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:53,000 Speaker 2: going to get perfect, so it's not gonna happen. That's 615 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,920 Speaker 2: why I have you to push me, and I will 616 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 2: to be better, be best. 617 00:33:58,240 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 1: And I will. 618 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,480 Speaker 2: Well, it's about that time at the end of every 619 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:06,800 Speaker 2: episode we'll give credit to a person, place, thing, idea, 620 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 2: whatever so eaves Who or what are you giving credit 621 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:11,240 Speaker 2: to today? 622 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 1: I am going to give credit to MICHAELA. Cole's book Misfits. 623 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: As you know, Katie, because you've known me for a 624 00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:21,520 Speaker 1: very long time, I can often feel like a misfit, 625 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 1: often feel very unconventional, and so MICHAELA. Cole's book Misfits 626 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,919 Speaker 1: was a short read based on a speech that she gave. 627 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 1: But I've found that it's one of those things that 628 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:37,440 Speaker 1: you can find these little small nuggets of inspiration and 629 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:42,880 Speaker 1: just encouragement to stand the path you're on, and be 630 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,319 Speaker 1: true to yourself and be fearless in the way that 631 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,239 Speaker 1: you present your offerings to the world, and exist and 632 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:51,600 Speaker 1: express yourself in the world. 633 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 2: Love it good turn. I think I'm willing to give 634 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:06,440 Speaker 2: credit to all the black podcasters that came before us. Specifically, 635 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 2: I'm thinking about Heaven and Tracy in this moment. They 636 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 2: were the first. Another Round was the first podcast that 637 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 2: I was like waiting for the podcast to drop, like 638 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,640 Speaker 2: that's what type of listener I was, and they just 639 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:22,879 Speaker 2: showed me. It's just like two black women can make 640 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,919 Speaker 2: a show like that's fine, that's cool, people will listen, 641 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 2: people will love it. So yeah, I want to give 642 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 2: them credit. Hope they're doing well in their pursuits now. 643 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,040 Speaker 2: But I definitely go back to the Another Round catalog 644 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 2: from time to time and reminisce. 645 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:40,160 Speaker 1: And I love that. So this was our first episode 646 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,960 Speaker 1: in a beginning for all of us together. But this 647 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,120 Speaker 1: won't be the last time that you all hear from us, 648 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:51,360 Speaker 1: So we'll see you again next week. On Theme is 649 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:55,960 Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio and Fairweather Friends Media. This episode 650 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,960 Speaker 1: was written by Eves Jeffco and Katie Mitchell. It was 651 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 1: edited and produced Tari Harrison. Follow us on Instagram at 652 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:06,359 Speaker 1: on themeshow. You can also send us an email at 653 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: helloat ontheme dot show. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit 654 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:16,040 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 655 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:17,239 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.