WEBVTT - Part One: How We Beat Polio But Not the Mythmaking Around Jonas Salk

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<v Speaker 1>Cool Zone Media.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello, and welcome to Cool People Did Cool Stuff. You're

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<v Speaker 2>a weekly reminder that when there's bad things, there's people

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<v Speaker 2>trying to do good things. I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy,

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<v Speaker 2>and this week I have a guest. I guess I

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<v Speaker 2>usually have a guest, but this week I have a

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<v Speaker 2>guest named Annie Reese. Hi, how are you?

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<v Speaker 3>I'm good. I feel like that's a loaded question these days,

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<v Speaker 3>but yes, I'm good. How are you?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm also good with air quotes everywhere.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, I'm very excited to be here.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm excited to have you on. And if people

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<v Speaker 2>haven't heard of you, which is surprising, you are one

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<v Speaker 2>of the hosts of Stuff Mom Never told You. And

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<v Speaker 2>you're also a host of Savor, which is a food podcast,

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<v Speaker 2>and I haven't actually heard that one yet, But I

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<v Speaker 2>am learning more and more about how I care about

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<v Speaker 2>food in terms of culture and politics and history and stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>And I just really appreciate y'all's tagline there's no you

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<v Speaker 2>and Savor.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you. We Actually the show is big on puns

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<v Speaker 3>and oh good bad jokes, if you'll allow me to say,

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<v Speaker 3>but yes, that is a huge part of Savors that

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<v Speaker 3>I feel like a lot of times people divorce food

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<v Speaker 3>from politics when they really shouldn't, and history when they

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<v Speaker 3>really shouldn't. And there's just so much to learn from

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<v Speaker 3>what you're eating every day. So that's my bitch for saver.

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<v Speaker 2>I want to hear it now. I like stuff mom'

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<v Speaker 2>never told you, and I think people will like these

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<v Speaker 2>things too. And if there's one thing you can say

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<v Speaker 2>about the current administration, this is not going to be

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<v Speaker 2>an episode about the current administration. Oh, I have to

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<v Speaker 2>do the rest of the introductions, including Sophie, who's our producer? Hi, Sophie.

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<v Speaker 1>Damn, it's just gonna forget me. I got a bright

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<v Speaker 1>prank hat on.

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<v Speaker 2>I never forget you, Sophie.

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<v Speaker 3>I would never forget Thank you, thank you.

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<v Speaker 2>And good house plants always good house.

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<v Speaker 1>Plans, Thank you. Pretty bushy behind me today, I'm like, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>I want to touch it.

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<v Speaker 2>We also have a new audio and who's Eva. Everyone's

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<v Speaker 2>to say hi to Eva, Hi Eva.

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<v Speaker 3>Hi Eva, Hiva. Eva's great.

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<v Speaker 1>He's gonna put that out there.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and actually Eva's been editing Our book Club, one

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<v Speaker 2>of my other shows. They cools on Media book Club

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<v Speaker 2>for a while.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, don't worry, we didn't get rid of Rory. Rory's

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<v Speaker 1>just working on a different project.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, mining coal. Yeah, actually not doing the mining of

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<v Speaker 2>the coal. But if you hang out in a cage,

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<v Speaker 2>you can keep track of when there's bad chemicals in

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<v Speaker 2>the air.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like we should make people at least, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>say haw to Rory one more time. I think, Hello, Rory, Hi,

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<v Speaker 1>Ri Hi Ory, if you want to say hi Rory more.

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<v Speaker 1>He's editing behind the bastards now.

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<v Speaker 2>So I am, well, okay, the current administration thing.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, what's going on there? That was like a really

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<v Speaker 1>wild little teaser you did.

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<v Speaker 2>So I went and did a Have you all ever

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<v Speaker 2>heard of lavender graduations?

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<v Speaker 3>No? No, I have not.

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<v Speaker 2>I hadn't, and I'm kind of embarrassed that I hadn't.

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<v Speaker 2>It's LGBT groups on college campuses have a graduation ceremony.

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<v Speaker 2>And I went and did a talk at one yesterday.

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<v Speaker 2>As we record this, and I was very like, how

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<v Speaker 2>is this gonna go? They hired a kind of fiery

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<v Speaker 2>anarchist to come give them their LGBT speech. I'm going

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<v Speaker 2>to tell them about gay people who had burned down

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<v Speaker 2>Nazi records. And then it kind of helped realizing that

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<v Speaker 2>everyone is really aware that things aren't okay right now,

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<v Speaker 2>So that was kind of actually promising. So in a

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<v Speaker 2>weird way, the one nice thing you can say about

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<v Speaker 2>the current situation is that no one has their head

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<v Speaker 2>in the sands in the same degree anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>That's fair.

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<v Speaker 2>Did it go well, Oh yeah, the event went great.

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<v Speaker 2>It was really heartwarming. Actually, it was a very like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>the kids are all right kind of moment, which is

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<v Speaker 2>condescending to say because they're not kids. There are like

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<v Speaker 2>twenty two I don't know how people are when they

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<v Speaker 2>graduate college.

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<v Speaker 3>Who knows. Two.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So if there is one thing this does actually

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<v Speaker 2>relate to what we're gonna talk about this week and

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<v Speaker 2>a lot in the near future. If there's one thing

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<v Speaker 2>I can say about the current administration of the United States,

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<v Speaker 2>it's that it has made us realize that there's an

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<v Speaker 2>awful lot of stuff we take for granted. Right, Like,

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<v Speaker 2>I've never been a big like government person, this is

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<v Speaker 2>true about me, right, but I'm a big like social

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<v Speaker 2>services person. But I'm like, oh, there's all of these

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<v Speaker 2>things that are really really good that we try to

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<v Speaker 2>do as a society, and we like stuff that society

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<v Speaker 2>tends to do for us. And a lot of that

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<v Speaker 2>stuff is being taken away. So I've decided to spend

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<v Speaker 2>some time focusing on these everyday miracles that we take

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<v Speaker 2>for granted, things that our parents or grandparents might not

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<v Speaker 2>have taken for granted, things that we can no longer

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<v Speaker 2>take for granted. I want to talk about vaccines. Ooh, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>I like vaccines. Vaccines are cool as hell, easily in

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<v Speaker 2>the top five best things humans have come up with.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know the other four on that list are,

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<v Speaker 2>but probably burritos. Specifically, I want to talk about the

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<v Speaker 2>polio vaccines. And I'm going to use the plural here

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<v Speaker 2>on purpose, because people talk about the polio vaccine as

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<v Speaker 2>if there's one vaccine, and there is a whole wild

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<v Speaker 2>history behind polio vaccines, and they have functionally, but not literally,

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<v Speaker 2>eradicated polio. Have you heard much of this story?

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<v Speaker 1>No?

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<v Speaker 3>But I do have a friend who works at the CDC.

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<v Speaker 3>She has not been fired yet, oh shit, yes, and

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<v Speaker 3>she is the biggest proponent of vaccines. She like, if

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<v Speaker 3>you catch her at a party, somehow vaccines will come up,

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<v Speaker 3>and a polio vaccin. It's one of her favorite stories

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<v Speaker 3>to tell. So I know it's got a history behind.

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<v Speaker 2>It, and a different history than I thought it did.

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<v Speaker 2>Because this week's story is going to follow an arc

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<v Speaker 2>that is familiar to regular listeners of the show, and

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<v Speaker 2>that Sophie and I spend a lot of our time

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<v Speaker 2>complaining about in signal chats, which is that I start

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<v Speaker 2>off researching, usually a guy who is famous for having

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<v Speaker 2>accomplished something right, and then I spend a week researching.

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<v Speaker 2>I read most of a biography, I'd read a whole

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<v Speaker 2>bunch of other stuff. I get about ninety percent through

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<v Speaker 2>my research. When I find out something that makes me

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<v Speaker 2>have to change everything about the story.

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<v Speaker 3>It happens all too often.

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<v Speaker 2>It's so annoying. It has happened when I researched women before,

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<v Speaker 2>but it happens all the time with men, where you're like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>and you're gonna like research this person and they're like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>they kind of we're a horrible monster to the people

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<v Speaker 2>closest to them, or actually all of this is myth

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<v Speaker 2>making and they're a con artist, or just like whatever

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<v Speaker 2>it is.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, Yeah, taking credit a lot of time.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, speaking of taking credit, you ever heard of a

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<v Speaker 2>guy named Jonas salk.

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<v Speaker 3>Have? Yes, this is.

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<v Speaker 2>The man Sophia, you heard of this guy? No, I hadn't.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think that, like you and I live under

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<v Speaker 2>a specific rock, because like, at least everything I've read

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<v Speaker 2>has been like, ah, yes, the most household name medicine

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<v Speaker 2>person in the world. And I'm like, I've never heard

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<v Speaker 2>of this man. Yeah, what have you heard of? Jonas Soak?

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<v Speaker 2>Before I tell you about Jonahs Sak.

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<v Speaker 3>I just knew he was involved in like medicine. I

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<v Speaker 3>just have heard his name from my elementary school days.

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<v Speaker 3>Perhaps that makes sense.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Jonas Sack, the man who defeated polio. He was

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<v Speaker 2>a Jewish guy raised poor in New York City from

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<v Speaker 2>a family of Eastern European immigrants. He worked his entire

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<v Speaker 2>life to fight disease and make the world a better place,

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<v Speaker 2>and along the way he became a sort of medical

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<v Speaker 2>rock star for his work developing a polio vaccine. He

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<v Speaker 2>is famous for saying he refused to patent this vaccine

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<v Speaker 2>because the world needed it. He said in an interview quote,

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<v Speaker 2>how can you patent the sun? And that what I

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<v Speaker 2>just read you is true? Ish, It is so close

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<v Speaker 2>to true that it is a massive fuck off. Lie.

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<v Speaker 2>Is such a lie? Fascinating and I like, I learned

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<v Speaker 2>that about seven hours ago.

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<v Speaker 3>He learned something every day. I know, like the.

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<v Speaker 2>Fact that the thing you've been researching for five days nonstuff,

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<v Speaker 2>isn't it true.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not even like true kind of it is.

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<v Speaker 2>It's so true that it becomes a lie.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh okay.

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<v Speaker 2>He did develop a polio vaccine. He developed the first

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<v Speaker 2>polio vaccine. The first functional one was we'll talk about it.

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<v Speaker 2>He didn't. Actually, we'll get to it. Okay. The first

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<v Speaker 2>polio vaccine that was widely tested is often called the

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<v Speaker 2>Salk vaccine, and he worked to do that with a

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<v Speaker 2>private anti communist foundation, one that claimed that public investment

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<v Speaker 2>in research was how communism would win in America, so

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<v Speaker 2>it couldn't be publicly funded. This is not reflecting the

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<v Speaker 2>politics of Jonah Sauk himself, but this is the organization

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<v Speaker 2>funded him. His vaccine saved uncountable lives, mostly white, middle

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<v Speaker 2>and upper class lives in the United States of America. Then,

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<v Speaker 2>another Eastern European Jewish man who also came up in

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<v Speaker 2>New York City, developed a polio vaccine in partnership between

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<v Speaker 2>American and Soviet scientists. This vaccine was cheap, more easily

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<v Speaker 2>administered and really slightly more dangerous by one context and

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<v Speaker 2>less dangerous by another context. That vaccine ended polio. After

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<v Speaker 2>polio is a effectively destroyed, the US went back to

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<v Speaker 2>Salks vaccine because when you have plenty of time and

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<v Speaker 2>medical facilities and can do booster shots and all that stuff,

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<v Speaker 2>Salks vaccine edges out a little bit. So it was

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<v Speaker 2>not Jonas Salk who beat polio. It wasn't even Albert Sabin,

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<v Speaker 2>who's this direct competitor, the one who I just said,

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<v Speaker 2>because no one person beat polio. It was an enormous

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<v Speaker 2>undertaking by thousands of researchers from across the world that

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<v Speaker 2>beat polio. And the Great Man theory of history is

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<v Speaker 2>once again a bunch of fucking garbage. And I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>know most of that when I wrote it this fucking episode,

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<v Speaker 2>So consider it a story about how myths are built.

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<v Speaker 2>But first we're gonna talk about polio. I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>anyone who's had polio to my knowledge, and that is

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<v Speaker 2>because I was born after these vaccines. Poliomyelitis is a

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<v Speaker 2>viral infection. Most infections are either bacterial or viral, and

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<v Speaker 2>this one's viral. It has been around for kind of forever,

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<v Speaker 2>at least thousands of years. It was first given a

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<v Speaker 2>name in eighteenth century, and then it started really fucking

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<v Speaker 2>people up in the nineteenth century. It actually the places

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<v Speaker 2>that first really hit was Europe and then the United

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<v Speaker 2>States in the nineteenth century. In nineteen oh eight or

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen oh nine, I have read both. A guy actually

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<v Speaker 2>looked really close and was like, I have seen the

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<v Speaker 2>actual virus that does this, and that has got to

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<v Speaker 2>be a strange time to be a scientist where you're like, ah,

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<v Speaker 2>I am looking through a microscope and seeing the actual object.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, I can't imagine back in those days where you

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<v Speaker 3>were just this looks different. I'm not sure why. Let

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<v Speaker 3>me try to come up with some reason. Just the

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<v Speaker 3>way we've understood viruses throughout time and how that's changed

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<v Speaker 3>is fascinating to me. Honestly.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, totally, And I'm kind of excited about all the

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<v Speaker 2>things that people are going to look back one hundred

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<v Speaker 2>years from now if they're still alive in the world's

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<v Speaker 2>and been cooked to death. But otherwise I'm like excited

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<v Speaker 2>about all the things. I'll be like, remember when people

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<v Speaker 2>thought the following, you know, right, Polio was absolutely terrifying

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<v Speaker 2>to people. It barely causes any symptoms in most people,

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<v Speaker 2>so it's easily transmitted. So like adults get it and

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<v Speaker 2>transmit it, but they don't they're not affected by it,

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<v Speaker 2>basically not. Most of the time, it is transmitted through

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<v Speaker 2>the fecal oral route, which is there's just like different

0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:34.960
<v Speaker 2>ways that you know, is the following think airborn. This

0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:36.120
<v Speaker 2>is the kind of fun thing that's fun to talk

0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:38.640
<v Speaker 2>about at parties. Actually, well, with your friend, it probably

0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:39.760
<v Speaker 2>is fun to talk about a parties.

0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:42.480
<v Speaker 3>She does love talking about it. Yeah.

0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:44.800
<v Speaker 2>My favorite thing I like bringing up is that hand

0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:48.320
<v Speaker 2>sanitizer doesn't do anything for fecal oral routes diseases, and

0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:50.640
<v Speaker 2>so you actually need to wash your hands after you

0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:54.480
<v Speaker 2>go to the bathroom. You can't just like use hand sanitizer. Yeah,

0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:55.880
<v Speaker 2>makes me real popular.

0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:59.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, things are the fun things in life. You know.

0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:00.959
<v Speaker 2>This is why I go to so many parties and

0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:02.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm invited everywhere.

0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:04.959
<v Speaker 1>That sounds like you, Yeah, totally.

0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:07.680
<v Speaker 2>It is my goal to be invited to all the parties.

0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:09.640
<v Speaker 2>It is not my goal to go to all the parties.

0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:12.360
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, one hundred percent. I want to be invited,

0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:17.000
<v Speaker 1>but I'm not coming like please keep inviting me, because

0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:18.760
<v Speaker 1>if you don't, I'll be really sad about it. But

0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:22.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm not coming, I know, but if you're not reinvited,

0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:29.000
<v Speaker 1>which is fair but still not okay, no, okay, oh okay.

0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:31.080
<v Speaker 2>The best is when you have a friend where you

0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:33.120
<v Speaker 2>can invite each other to things and you know it's

0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:35.000
<v Speaker 2>safe because you know that both of you are gonna

0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:37.439
<v Speaker 2>be like, eh, I gotta hang out with my dog today.

0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:42.440
<v Speaker 3>Sorry, gotta have that like dog back burner.

0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:47.599
<v Speaker 1>Excuse, yeah, totally, I am good, my favorite the like, Oh.

0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:49.800
<v Speaker 2>My dog is just kind of needs to get home soon.

0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:56.199
<v Speaker 2>My dog and I get socially exhausted. My dog has

0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:57.920
<v Speaker 2>to record some podcasts in the morning.

0:13:58.400 --> 0:13:58.880
<v Speaker 3>There you go.

0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:05.520
<v Speaker 2>So polio almost exclusively affects children, and I'm going to

0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:08.400
<v Speaker 2>get into it because polio might come back because of

0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:11.079
<v Speaker 2>the motherfucker in charge of the fucking anyway, whatever, we'll

0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:14.520
<v Speaker 2>get to that. When you first get polio, you get

0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:17.360
<v Speaker 2>a runny nose and a sore throat. Then you get

0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:20.840
<v Speaker 2>a fever, then horrible pain throughout all your muscles or

0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:24.040
<v Speaker 2>some of your muscles, depending, leaving you thrashing and misery

0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:27.880
<v Speaker 2>in your bed. Then when the fever breaks, it's not over.

0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:30.520
<v Speaker 2>It means the virus is moved from the blood to

0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:35.280
<v Speaker 2>the nervous system. Within a few days, your muscles become paralyzed,

0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:38.200
<v Speaker 2>but your body doesn't go numb. You can still feel

0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:42.680
<v Speaker 2>all your muscles, you just can't use them. Among people

0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:45.200
<v Speaker 2>catch it symptomatically like this. I have read a ten

0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:47.080
<v Speaker 2>percent mortality rate, and I have read a twenty five

0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:51.160
<v Speaker 2>percent mortality rate. I believe the lower number. It kills

0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:54.320
<v Speaker 2>you by paralyzing essential functions. If it goes up in

0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:57.320
<v Speaker 2>your brain, you will stop being able to swallow. You'll

0:14:57.320 --> 0:14:58.640
<v Speaker 2>foam at the mouth and drown.

0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:03.120
<v Speaker 3>It's bad, It's really Yeah, that sounds terrible.

0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:06.800
<v Speaker 2>You the listener have probably seen if you all seen

0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:12.120
<v Speaker 2>the pictures of iron lungs. Yes, yes, so they have

0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:14.360
<v Speaker 2>been used for other things. It's like, if your lungs

0:15:14.400 --> 0:15:16.960
<v Speaker 2>are paralyzed, this is the object that would help you

0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:19.040
<v Speaker 2>back in the day. Now we use intubation and other

0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:22.480
<v Speaker 2>things more often, although iron lungs have come back thanks

0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:25.600
<v Speaker 2>to COVID. Iron lungs are huge metal tubes that you

0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:27.720
<v Speaker 2>go into with only your head sticking out, and the

0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:30.160
<v Speaker 2>machine varies the air pressure, so it sort of breathes

0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:32.480
<v Speaker 2>for you. Your head's not in it. But basically it's

0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:35.680
<v Speaker 2>a like forces your chest to expand. It brings airs,

0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:38.760
<v Speaker 2>and it's like manually working of bellows. If your lungs

0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:42.400
<v Speaker 2>are paralyzed, you need this thing. Most people only spent

0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:44.080
<v Speaker 2>about two weeks or a couple of months in the

0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:46.560
<v Speaker 2>iron lung while recovering. But plenty of people and every

0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:49.560
<v Speaker 2>time I say people, when I'm talking about polio, I'm

0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:52.480
<v Speaker 2>talking about children. Plenty of children. Well, I guess in

0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:55.840
<v Speaker 2>this case, people live their entire lives in iron lungs.

0:15:56.520 --> 0:16:00.000
<v Speaker 2>There is one woman, Martha Lillard, who got polio nineteen

0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:01.800
<v Speaker 2>fifty three when she was five years old, who was

0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:05.920
<v Speaker 2>still alive as of when I looked, and still lives

0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:08.880
<v Speaker 2>in one. And she's having trouble finding parts to keep

0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:12.360
<v Speaker 2>her iron long in good repair because she's the only

0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:16.840
<v Speaker 2>person living in one. Long term left people often regained

0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:19.520
<v Speaker 2>some use of their muscles, but generally people were disabled

0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:23.520
<v Speaker 2>for life, and polio scared the piss out of everyone.

0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:27.680
<v Speaker 2>It was killing and paralyzing children. The most famous polio

0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:30.840
<v Speaker 2>survivor is Franklin Roosevelt, the progressively served as President of

0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:33.080
<v Speaker 2>this country for the longest and could scarcely walk and

0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:38.480
<v Speaker 2>relied on leg bracestm wheelchairs. So in nineteen sixteen there

0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:42.280
<v Speaker 2>was this massive polio outbreak in New York City. Basically,

0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:46.760
<v Speaker 2>summertime in major cities was polio's time to shine. Babies

0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:49.880
<v Speaker 2>were dying of polio at a fantastic and terrible rate,

0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:55.040
<v Speaker 2>one every two and a half hours. Jesus Christ, Yeah,

0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:57.520
<v Speaker 2>that's too often. There's I've read so many stories about

0:16:57.560 --> 0:16:59.840
<v Speaker 2>doctors who are like, I don't know, just like walking

0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:04.520
<v Speaker 2>through these wards and just being like watching children dying constantly.

0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:06.480
<v Speaker 2>And there's a lot of emotional stuff I didn't put

0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:10.879
<v Speaker 2>in this part of it. It's transmission wasn't yet understood.

0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:14.159
<v Speaker 2>People assumed it was airborne basically, and they tried everything

0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:17.920
<v Speaker 2>to stop it. Families were quarantined, windows were screened to

0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:20.880
<v Speaker 2>keep flies away, the trash got picked up extra well.

0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:24.560
<v Speaker 2>Those two things actually probably helped them. Playgrounds were shut down.

0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:28.240
<v Speaker 2>Kids had their noses and throats rinsed with salt water daily,

0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:31.040
<v Speaker 2>which has got to be one of the worst things

0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:37.199
<v Speaker 2>that I can imagine happening on a daily basis. Most tragically,

0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:40.600
<v Speaker 2>seventy two thousand stray cats were killed by the city

0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:44.240
<v Speaker 2>because people thought they spread it and none of it worked.

0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:47.680
<v Speaker 2>But you know, it did work to save everyone who

0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:50.359
<v Speaker 2>has polio, and Sophie, I think we can promise that

0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:56.360
<v Speaker 2>all of the following people are capable of curing polio. Yeah,

0:17:56.400 --> 0:18:05.080
<v Speaker 2>why not, it's our response. They're all legally capable of

0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:08.320
<v Speaker 2>understanding what parody is and not getting mad about this

0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:11.600
<v Speaker 2>ad transition. That's what they're capable of doing. Here's a

0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:20.920
<v Speaker 2>bunch of ads, and we're back. But unfortunately, they didn't

0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:26.080
<v Speaker 2>have the products that support this podcast yet, or they might.

0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:27.560
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what we got advertised. Some of that

0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:30.200
<v Speaker 2>stuff has been around for a while, but they didn't

0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:33.320
<v Speaker 2>have enough of it. They didn't even have podcasts back then.

0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:37.080
<v Speaker 2>They had to listen to people on soapboxes and radio.

0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:39.879
<v Speaker 2>And actually we've been doing basically the equivalent of podcasts forever.

0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:44.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean, honestly, like, if you're thinking about a

0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:47.159
<v Speaker 3>lot of this sounds like COVID to me, And I

0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:53.959
<v Speaker 3>feel like the whole manosphere thing that happened during COVID,

0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:57.080
<v Speaker 3>where people were isolated and they didn't have real information

0:18:57.240 --> 0:18:59.840
<v Speaker 3>and they were just like, I don't know, I don't

0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:06.920
<v Speaker 3>understand that a lot of negative things around health came

0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:09.800
<v Speaker 3>out out of that, and it's still impacting us to

0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:11.679
<v Speaker 3>this day, which I'm sure we'll talk about.

0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:15.399
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's a lot of overlaps between this and like

0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:18.120
<v Speaker 2>we will talk about some like really early anti vaxxers

0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:20.439
<v Speaker 2>during this, But there was actually this thing where like

0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:23.720
<v Speaker 2>it seems like from the reading that more people were

0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:26.240
<v Speaker 2>willing to trust experts than like currently.

0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:29.400
<v Speaker 3>That's fun. Yeah, I love that.

0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:36.480
<v Speaker 2>People started fleeing the city. And to be clear, there's

0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:39.280
<v Speaker 2>outbreaks everywhere, but New York City is like particularly bad.

0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:43.040
<v Speaker 2>Twelve hundred kids a day escaped the city with their

0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:46.280
<v Speaker 2>families for a little while, but then other cities soon

0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:51.000
<v Speaker 2>stopped letting them come in. Kids and babies were taken

0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:54.240
<v Speaker 2>to Kingston Avenue Hospital and quarantined for two months, away

0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:57.399
<v Speaker 2>from their families, and then cops would go around and

0:19:57.440 --> 0:19:59.680
<v Speaker 2>steal children from their families to take them to the

0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:03.280
<v Speaker 2>hospit all. I only got one sentence of that, and

0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:05.760
<v Speaker 2>I want to know more about what happened there. Was

0:20:05.800 --> 0:20:07.520
<v Speaker 2>it like you got a runny nose, Now you got

0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:11.160
<v Speaker 2>to go to the you know, quarantine, the death land.

0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:13.200
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, the.

0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:18.040
<v Speaker 3>Police are coming, you know, I have had a couple

0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:22.840
<v Speaker 3>of instances where I have had something like swine flu,

0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:26.040
<v Speaker 3>and basically they've been like, you're going to this quarantine zone.

0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:28.280
<v Speaker 3>And I didn't know what was happening, and they just

0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:30.640
<v Speaker 3>told me where to go.

0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:33.800
<v Speaker 2>Wait, you've been quarantined by who. What happened?

0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:38.879
<v Speaker 3>I was quarantined just multiple times. One time when I

0:20:38.920 --> 0:20:41.480
<v Speaker 3>was flying into the US. That was when I had

0:20:41.840 --> 0:20:46.200
<v Speaker 3>bird flu. One time at college when I had swine flu,

0:20:46.560 --> 0:20:50.280
<v Speaker 3>uh huh, and they didn't want to report it because

0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:52.119
<v Speaker 3>if they had to report it, they would have shut

0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:59.159
<v Speaker 3>down the university. And then another time where a doctor

0:20:59.280 --> 0:21:01.640
<v Speaker 3>was just like, please go home and quarantine.

0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:04.680
<v Speaker 1>I feel really great about that. That made me really confident.

0:21:04.880 --> 0:21:08.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, they basically were like, just don't tell Anyboddy, go

0:21:08.880 --> 0:21:09.760
<v Speaker 3>back to your door.

0:21:11.160 --> 0:21:15.159
<v Speaker 1>I feel really confident about the American education system. I

0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:17.520
<v Speaker 1>feel like we're really setting the priority straight.

0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:22.159
<v Speaker 3>They did give me a mask and some clothes and

0:21:22.200 --> 0:21:25.600
<v Speaker 3>the instructions to stay in my room away from people

0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:26.760
<v Speaker 3>for a couple of days.

0:21:27.000 --> 0:21:30.160
<v Speaker 2>So college kids are notoriously good at following instruction.

0:21:30.200 --> 0:21:35.080
<v Speaker 3>Definitely socializing. It was also Halloween. I remember very specifically

0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:36.760
<v Speaker 3>Jesus Christ.

0:21:36.840 --> 0:21:40.960
<v Speaker 2>My Halloween costume is the person with mask and gloves.

0:21:42.480 --> 0:21:43.720
<v Speaker 3>I did stay in my room.

0:21:43.880 --> 0:21:44.280
<v Speaker 2>That's good.

0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:44.640
<v Speaker 3>I did.

0:21:45.200 --> 0:21:48.520
<v Speaker 2>Yes, that's good. So if there's ever like a new

0:21:48.720 --> 0:21:52.040
<v Speaker 2>animal named flu, are you just personally convinced that you

0:21:52.119 --> 0:21:54.840
<v Speaker 2>are going to get it? Kind of like once there's

0:21:54.840 --> 0:21:57.119
<v Speaker 2>like a snake flu, I'm like staying away from you

0:21:57.160 --> 0:21:57.639
<v Speaker 2>for a while.

0:21:57.920 --> 0:21:58.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:21:58.359 --> 0:22:01.640
<v Speaker 3>I think that's fair. I think that's a really fair response. Honestly.

0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:05.919
<v Speaker 2>Well, just like the thing that saved you, the epidemics

0:22:05.960 --> 0:22:12.240
<v Speaker 2>stopped because summer stopped. Two four hundred people, mostly kids

0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:15.520
<v Speaker 2>under five, died in New York City that summer, and

0:22:15.560 --> 0:22:20.640
<v Speaker 2>around nine thousand were paralyzed. Nationwide, twenty seven thousand kids

0:22:20.680 --> 0:22:23.000
<v Speaker 2>died or paralyzed, and I don't know which because it

0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:25.439
<v Speaker 2>was confusingly written, and I tried across reference, but it

0:22:25.480 --> 0:22:30.119
<v Speaker 2>doesn't always work. It was a bad summer. Every summer

0:22:30.160 --> 0:22:35.400
<v Speaker 2>across the world, polio came back, and it mostly slowly

0:22:35.440 --> 0:22:39.960
<v Speaker 2>got worse. Fifteen thousand kids a year were disabled by

0:22:39.960 --> 0:22:44.119
<v Speaker 2>polio in the United States, and is peaked in nineteen

0:22:44.160 --> 0:22:47.760
<v Speaker 2>fifty two. In the early nineteen fifties, the thing that

0:22:47.840 --> 0:22:51.120
<v Speaker 2>most Americans were afraid of was nuclear war, which makes

0:22:51.119 --> 0:22:54.560
<v Speaker 2>sense The second thing after that that they were the

0:22:54.600 --> 0:22:58.520
<v Speaker 2>most afraid of was polio. And it's like one of

0:22:58.560 --> 0:23:00.160
<v Speaker 2>those things where it's like polio's is like an old

0:23:00.160 --> 0:23:02.119
<v Speaker 2>timey disease. You're like, oh, that could have been like

0:23:02.680 --> 0:23:04.880
<v Speaker 2>that bad. We're still around as a species, and I've

0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:08.920
<v Speaker 2>never met anyone in polio, you know, right, maybe most

0:23:08.920 --> 0:23:10.760
<v Speaker 2>people are better at thinking things through than I would

0:23:10.760 --> 0:23:11.040
<v Speaker 2>have been.

0:23:11.080 --> 0:23:15.560
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, it had a huge impact though. I know

0:23:15.600 --> 0:23:17.760
<v Speaker 3>we've talked about it, but in terms of like the

0:23:17.880 --> 0:23:19.720
<v Speaker 3>ADA and all those kind of things.

0:23:19.920 --> 0:23:22.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Yeah, one of the things that we're not going

0:23:22.320 --> 0:23:24.359
<v Speaker 2>to get into too much, but the start of the

0:23:24.400 --> 0:23:27.720
<v Speaker 2>disability rights movement and also the start of the concept

0:23:27.760 --> 0:23:31.600
<v Speaker 2>of physical therapy. Yeah, comes out of polio. And of

0:23:31.640 --> 0:23:34.479
<v Speaker 2>course that was done by a woman and isn't as

0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:36.439
<v Speaker 2>written about as much. And then I'm as guilty as

0:23:36.440 --> 0:23:38.600
<v Speaker 2>anyone else because instead I'm going to complain about a man.

0:23:39.280 --> 0:23:41.400
<v Speaker 2>That's the main thing I'm gonna do this episode.

0:23:41.480 --> 0:23:45.399
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean, you know, sometimes you've just got to

0:23:45.400 --> 0:23:46.200
<v Speaker 3>complain about a man.

0:23:46.280 --> 0:23:51.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, under totally, totally. In nineteen fifty five, the polio vaccine,

0:23:52.359 --> 0:23:57.480
<v Speaker 2>the first one was administered, and the way it's usually

0:23:57.480 --> 0:24:02.119
<v Speaker 2>presented is that basically overnight polio dropped from disabling fifteen

0:24:02.160 --> 0:24:04.640
<v Speaker 2>thousand kids a year to about one hundred cases a year.

0:24:06.320 --> 0:24:11.600
<v Speaker 2>This isn't true. It did start turning the tide dramatically,

0:24:11.960 --> 0:24:15.720
<v Speaker 2>but it wasn't until nineteen sixty two, I think when

0:24:15.760 --> 0:24:18.960
<v Speaker 2>the other vaccine that we'll talk about later came in

0:24:19.600 --> 0:24:22.240
<v Speaker 2>that it started dropping to one hundred cases a year.

0:24:23.840 --> 0:24:25.560
<v Speaker 3>So was it a kind of marketing thing.

0:24:26.400 --> 0:24:29.200
<v Speaker 2>It's that people want a simple history with a hero,

0:24:30.280 --> 0:24:33.160
<v Speaker 2>and Jonas Salk, the guy that we're going to talk about,

0:24:33.160 --> 0:24:39.840
<v Speaker 2>mostly was a hero. He stopped polio. You know, by

0:24:39.920 --> 0:24:43.800
<v Speaker 2>nineteen seventy nine. Polio is effectively eliminated in the United

0:24:43.800 --> 0:24:49.479
<v Speaker 2>States until the modern anti vax movement, which is basically

0:24:49.560 --> 0:24:50.440
<v Speaker 2>a death cult.

0:24:50.920 --> 0:24:51.320
<v Speaker 3>Uh huh.

0:24:51.640 --> 0:24:54.600
<v Speaker 2>In twenty twenty two, the US got some cases of

0:24:54.640 --> 0:24:57.840
<v Speaker 2>polio for the first time since nineteen seventy nine.

0:24:58.160 --> 0:25:04.280
<v Speaker 3>Great, yeah, with RFK Junior charge moving forward, well, let's let's.

0:25:04.080 --> 0:25:07.760
<v Speaker 2>Talk about that real quick. RFK Junior soon to be

0:25:07.800 --> 0:25:11.920
<v Speaker 2>remembered as one of history's greatest monsters. Yes, he has

0:25:12.000 --> 0:25:14.879
<v Speaker 2>gone on record to say that the polio vaccine has

0:25:14.960 --> 0:25:20.080
<v Speaker 2>quote killed many, many, many, many many more people than

0:25:20.119 --> 0:25:25.080
<v Speaker 2>polio ever did such an idiot uh huh wow, because

0:25:25.080 --> 0:25:27.840
<v Speaker 2>he was like, oh, he like gives people cancer or something.

0:25:29.160 --> 0:25:32.520
<v Speaker 2>And also he claims that the vaccine didn't actually reduce

0:25:32.600 --> 0:25:36.879
<v Speaker 2>polio cases, that it is quote a mythology and quote

0:25:37.480 --> 0:25:40.639
<v Speaker 2>just not true. Studies have shown, of course, that the

0:25:40.680 --> 0:25:44.480
<v Speaker 2>polio vaccine does not cause cancer, and that polio has

0:25:44.520 --> 0:25:49.440
<v Speaker 2>been pretty much completely eliminated worldwide because of these vaccines.

0:25:50.840 --> 0:25:54.320
<v Speaker 2>Everyone of every political party who allowed RFK Junior to

0:25:54.359 --> 0:25:57.800
<v Speaker 2>come to power has fucking blood on their hands. Yeah,

0:25:57.880 --> 0:26:01.600
<v Speaker 2>polio is bad and it was real bad. And this

0:26:01.680 --> 0:26:04.359
<v Speaker 2>is the story about people developing the vaccine, but it

0:26:04.400 --> 0:26:07.800
<v Speaker 2>actually starts in its way with people fighting against the flu.

0:26:08.160 --> 0:26:09.920
<v Speaker 2>So we're gonna talk about the flu real quick too.

0:26:12.160 --> 0:26:15.560
<v Speaker 2>The flu is way harder to vaccinate against, although we

0:26:15.640 --> 0:26:18.560
<v Speaker 2>do it fairly well. Regardless, people should get their flu shots.

0:26:19.560 --> 0:26:21.959
<v Speaker 2>I never bothered because I was like, I'm young and

0:26:22.000 --> 0:26:24.679
<v Speaker 2>can do whatever. And then I like have a doctor

0:26:24.720 --> 0:26:28.320
<v Speaker 2>friend and he's like, that's not the point. The point

0:26:28.359 --> 0:26:31.000
<v Speaker 2>is that if you don't get it, old people die.

0:26:31.359 --> 0:26:33.720
<v Speaker 2>I'm also like closer and closer to an honorary old

0:26:33.760 --> 0:26:37.040
<v Speaker 2>person myself, but yeah.

0:26:36.720 --> 0:26:38.760
<v Speaker 3>I had the same thing where it's like I don't

0:26:38.760 --> 0:26:40.959
<v Speaker 3>need it. It just kind of makes me feel a little

0:26:41.000 --> 0:26:43.840
<v Speaker 3>off for a couple of days. Why should I get it?

0:26:44.359 --> 0:26:47.240
<v Speaker 3>And then somebody sat me down and was like, it's

0:26:47.280 --> 0:26:51.880
<v Speaker 3>not just about you. Yeah, yeah's kind of the point totally.

0:26:52.320 --> 0:26:54.520
<v Speaker 2>And there's like some people who can't get the shot

0:26:54.600 --> 0:26:57.960
<v Speaker 2>at all because they're immuno compromised. I think there's seventeen

0:26:58.000 --> 0:27:01.040
<v Speaker 2>million people living in the US who have actual medical

0:27:01.080 --> 0:27:05.000
<v Speaker 2>reasons that they can't get vaccinated, do an immunocompromisation. Whatever.

0:27:05.520 --> 0:27:08.760
<v Speaker 2>We still successfully vaccinate against the flu, even though mutates

0:27:08.800 --> 0:27:12.040
<v Speaker 2>all the time, which is why it's like less effective. Right.

0:27:12.080 --> 0:27:15.480
<v Speaker 2>The polio vaccine was like good by polio, right, and

0:27:15.520 --> 0:27:18.920
<v Speaker 2>we haven't been able to say good bye flu. Polio

0:27:18.960 --> 0:27:21.480
<v Speaker 2>doesn't like to mutate all that much, but the flu

0:27:21.760 --> 0:27:24.720
<v Speaker 2>mutates like it's its full time job. You have the

0:27:24.760 --> 0:27:27.280
<v Speaker 2>polio outbreak of nineteen sixteen, and then you have the

0:27:27.280 --> 0:27:30.920
<v Speaker 2>Spanish flu, which is the closest COVID parallel, especially because

0:27:30.920 --> 0:27:34.040
<v Speaker 2>they wore masks and stuff. And this is a global

0:27:34.080 --> 0:27:37.960
<v Speaker 2>pandemic from nineteen eighteen to nineteen twenty, and this fucking

0:27:37.960 --> 0:27:40.800
<v Speaker 2>thing killed like twenty five to fifty million people and

0:27:41.640 --> 0:27:45.120
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people. Yeah. This was during World War One,

0:27:45.560 --> 0:27:47.800
<v Speaker 2>and the Spanish flu was as good at killing soldiers

0:27:47.840 --> 0:27:52.160
<v Speaker 2>as masked charges against machine guns was like World War

0:27:52.200 --> 0:27:55.200
<v Speaker 2>One was like when we were really bad at understanding

0:27:55.240 --> 0:27:59.080
<v Speaker 2>that you can't charge a machine gun, you know, and

0:27:59.119 --> 0:28:01.000
<v Speaker 2>so they would be like, Oh, to send more young,

0:28:01.040 --> 0:28:03.680
<v Speaker 2>poor people in front of that machine gun, that'll work.

0:28:05.160 --> 0:28:08.639
<v Speaker 2>I think for actual soldiers, combat deaths edges out. I

0:28:08.640 --> 0:28:11.800
<v Speaker 2>didn't write down the numbers, but they're in the running

0:28:11.840 --> 0:28:16.760
<v Speaker 2>with each other. The thing that really scared people about

0:28:16.760 --> 0:28:19.320
<v Speaker 2>the Spanish flu is that it was affecting healthier people

0:28:19.359 --> 0:28:22.560
<v Speaker 2>than the flu usually did, and we didn't have the

0:28:22.560 --> 0:28:25.560
<v Speaker 2>flu shot yet, but public health departments did their best.

0:28:25.840 --> 0:28:27.880
<v Speaker 2>I think there's kind of this interesting thing where it's

0:28:27.920 --> 0:28:31.600
<v Speaker 2>like people do try, you know, and you're like, oh,

0:28:31.680 --> 0:28:34.399
<v Speaker 2>they did things wrong, and you're like, yeah, yeah, but

0:28:34.440 --> 0:28:38.719
<v Speaker 2>they did things they Yeah, they did what was what

0:28:38.760 --> 0:28:40.000
<v Speaker 2>they thought they could, you know.

0:28:40.360 --> 0:28:43.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, going back to my friends who works in the

0:28:43.600 --> 0:28:47.680
<v Speaker 3>health industry, they were trying to learn as much as

0:28:47.720 --> 0:28:51.080
<v Speaker 3>they could about in this case, COVID, but it was

0:28:51.120 --> 0:28:53.880
<v Speaker 3>constantly changing. They were getting new data. It was moving

0:28:53.920 --> 0:28:58.040
<v Speaker 3>so quickly. I can only imagine back in nineteen seventeen, yeah,

0:28:58.160 --> 0:29:02.680
<v Speaker 3>or nineteen thirteen. But yeah, yeah, in that area.

0:29:02.920 --> 0:29:03.400
<v Speaker 2>In front of me.

0:29:03.520 --> 0:29:10.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, I memorized you know that, Yeah, that wasn't

0:29:10.760 --> 0:29:15.520
<v Speaker 3>you didn't have ready access. Actually, that's kind of an

0:29:15.520 --> 0:29:19.440
<v Speaker 3>interesting juxtaposition of like, in some cases I think that

0:29:19.560 --> 0:29:22.640
<v Speaker 3>boone is having more access than maybe in other cases

0:29:22.680 --> 0:29:25.280
<v Speaker 3>it's kind of a detriment, which is what we're seeing

0:29:25.280 --> 0:29:31.000
<v Speaker 3>today in terms of you know, misinformation disformation. But oh yeah, totally,

0:29:31.200 --> 0:29:34.840
<v Speaker 3>but not that that didn't exist before. But yeah, but

0:29:34.960 --> 0:29:38.320
<v Speaker 3>she was saying that we were always trying to figure

0:29:38.320 --> 0:29:40.959
<v Speaker 3>it out as quickly as we could to get solutions

0:29:40.960 --> 0:29:44.280
<v Speaker 3>because there are also people who don't want their loved

0:29:44.280 --> 0:29:45.480
<v Speaker 3>ones to die, I know.

0:29:45.560 --> 0:29:48.280
<v Speaker 2>And it's like, oh, you said last week it was this,

0:29:48.400 --> 0:29:50.240
<v Speaker 2>and you're like, yeah, you're aware that, Like the whole

0:29:50.280 --> 0:29:52.320
<v Speaker 2>point of science is to change your mind as new

0:29:52.320 --> 0:29:55.360
<v Speaker 2>information comes in, but then act on the best available

0:29:55.400 --> 0:29:58.959
<v Speaker 2>information the entire time. Like that doesn't feel like a

0:29:59.040 --> 0:30:01.000
<v Speaker 2>hard concept from my point of view.

0:30:01.160 --> 0:30:04.720
<v Speaker 3>You know, yeah, no, that makes total sense that you

0:30:04.760 --> 0:30:10.600
<v Speaker 3>would get new information, take that in and then make

0:30:10.720 --> 0:30:11.840
<v Speaker 3>your informed opinion.

0:30:12.400 --> 0:30:14.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and so in New York City, when the Spanish

0:30:14.360 --> 0:30:20.240
<v Speaker 2>flu came. They basically built a social distancing infrastructure. They

0:30:20.320 --> 0:30:23.240
<v Speaker 2>staggered business hours so that not everyone was on public

0:30:23.280 --> 0:30:26.840
<v Speaker 2>transit at once. They got rid of rush hour in

0:30:26.960 --> 0:30:29.680
<v Speaker 2>order to fight the flu. Oh wow, I wish they

0:30:29.680 --> 0:30:31.960
<v Speaker 2>would just do that anyway, what am I saying? I

0:30:31.960 --> 0:30:33.240
<v Speaker 2>live in the mountains. I haven't had to deal with

0:30:33.360 --> 0:30:36.080
<v Speaker 2>rush hour, and like, I don't remember how many years

0:30:38.240 --> 0:30:38.640
<v Speaker 2>they got.

0:30:38.680 --> 0:30:39.480
<v Speaker 3>Well it's painful.

0:30:39.640 --> 0:30:42.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, there's no one around. Yeah, like you like,

0:30:43.360 --> 0:30:45.520
<v Speaker 2>we have to like wait for a tractor. That's the

0:30:45.520 --> 0:30:47.320
<v Speaker 2>most annoying thing that I have to.

0:30:47.240 --> 0:30:49.560
<v Speaker 3>Put up with, you know, hilarious.

0:30:49.600 --> 0:30:51.720
<v Speaker 2>But then when you finally pass them, they're just like, oh, hey,

0:30:51.760 --> 0:30:57.600
<v Speaker 2>how's it going, you know, give the wave. Yeah. They

0:30:57.640 --> 0:31:01.560
<v Speaker 2>also got theaters to sell only half their seats to people,

0:31:01.680 --> 0:31:04.240
<v Speaker 2>so you have an empty seat next to you. And

0:31:05.160 --> 0:31:08.080
<v Speaker 2>people started covering their mouths when coughing, which was a

0:31:08.120 --> 0:31:09.480
<v Speaker 2>new technology at the time.

0:31:10.480 --> 0:31:14.160
<v Speaker 3>Wow, I love this. See I do the vampire cough.

0:31:14.280 --> 0:31:17.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah no, yeah, we've moved from hands to the yeah.

0:31:18.840 --> 0:31:20.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:31:20.440 --> 0:31:24.400
<v Speaker 2>Bodies piled up unburied, and in nineteen eighteen, twenty one

0:31:24.400 --> 0:31:29.160
<v Speaker 2>thousand New York City children were orphaned, and that is

0:31:29.200 --> 0:31:31.440
<v Speaker 2>the New York city that our main character of the

0:31:31.440 --> 0:31:34.640
<v Speaker 2>week was born into, the one that his competitor would

0:31:34.720 --> 0:31:39.320
<v Speaker 2>move to. Jonas Salk was called a hero, and he

0:31:39.360 --> 0:31:42.320
<v Speaker 2>seemed to kind of revel in that identity. There's a

0:31:42.360 --> 0:31:45.400
<v Speaker 2>lot of like arguments this is a man that there

0:31:45.400 --> 0:31:47.960
<v Speaker 2>are hagiography is about. This is a man where they're like,

0:31:48.920 --> 0:31:51.320
<v Speaker 2>either he's just a complete piece of garbage or like

0:31:51.360 --> 0:31:53.120
<v Speaker 2>almost everything you read about it is like he's just

0:31:53.160 --> 0:31:56.120
<v Speaker 2>basically the best. This is Jesus walking amongst us. You know,

0:31:58.280 --> 0:32:02.080
<v Speaker 2>much like Jesus. He was Jewish, he was hard working

0:32:02.080 --> 0:32:04.920
<v Speaker 2>as fuck, and he tirelessly worked to make the world better.

0:32:05.280 --> 0:32:08.400
<v Speaker 2>He also wasn't the only person doing this work.

0:32:08.800 --> 0:32:08.960
<v Speaker 3>Oh.

0:32:09.000 --> 0:32:10.640
<v Speaker 2>Also, we'll get to this at the end. He was

0:32:10.680 --> 0:32:13.800
<v Speaker 2>like a eugenicist and had really wild ideas and it

0:32:13.840 --> 0:32:17.000
<v Speaker 2>was a real sketchy.

0:32:16.680 --> 0:32:17.880
<v Speaker 3>Oh that's fun, Tea said.

0:32:18.080 --> 0:32:21.840
<v Speaker 2>His wife dihorsed him and for pretty solid reasons. And anyway,

0:32:22.240 --> 0:32:22.840
<v Speaker 2>we'll get to that.

0:32:23.080 --> 0:32:28.520
<v Speaker 3>Did it go, girl, Yeah, you're a eugenicist. I think

0:32:28.560 --> 0:32:29.320
<v Speaker 3>I should get out of it.

0:32:29.320 --> 0:32:33.120
<v Speaker 2>I was like, yeah, yeah, And I think there were

0:32:33.160 --> 0:32:36.160
<v Speaker 2>a lot of breakups around Trump's election, you know, I

0:32:36.160 --> 0:32:38.160
<v Speaker 2>think that there was a lot of people who are like, oh,

0:32:38.880 --> 0:32:40.800
<v Speaker 2>I could put up with my boyfriend until this is

0:32:40.840 --> 0:32:43.320
<v Speaker 2>just the step too far, this is too real now.

0:32:43.840 --> 0:32:47.080
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure I.

0:32:47.120 --> 0:32:50.760
<v Speaker 2>Met someone who would that basically happened to and I

0:32:50.800 --> 0:32:52.840
<v Speaker 2>don't feel bad for him at all, but I'm like, oh,

0:32:52.880 --> 0:32:58.520
<v Speaker 2>I'm so sorry that you wait. Nope, never mind. Anyway,

0:32:58.800 --> 0:33:03.680
<v Speaker 2>Jonahsok wasn't the only person doing this work around vaccines,

0:33:04.320 --> 0:33:06.680
<v Speaker 2>and people have complained about him taking credit for more

0:33:06.720 --> 0:33:09.480
<v Speaker 2>than his own work. And he started off his life

0:33:09.520 --> 0:33:11.800
<v Speaker 2>as a leftist. He was actually investigated by the FBI

0:33:11.880 --> 0:33:16.200
<v Speaker 2>for communist sympathies. Then he moved to a political and

0:33:16.240 --> 0:33:19.600
<v Speaker 2>he wound up writing mystical eugenesis shit about how scientists

0:33:19.640 --> 0:33:23.120
<v Speaker 2>should control the human race genetically by introducing viruses into

0:33:23.560 --> 0:33:28.720
<v Speaker 2>people's embryos. That's the big medical hero the twentieth century,

0:33:29.080 --> 0:33:37.240
<v Speaker 2>Jonas Salk. But one thing that Jonas Salk had access to, no,

0:33:37.360 --> 0:33:40.000
<v Speaker 2>he didn't. Actually he raised very poor. Well, I bet

0:33:40.040 --> 0:33:42.880
<v Speaker 2>some of our products and services were actually affordable. So

0:33:43.440 --> 0:33:46.600
<v Speaker 2>probably because some of them are just losing your life

0:33:46.600 --> 0:33:49.600
<v Speaker 2>to Anyway, here's some ads. I love all of them

0:33:49.640 --> 0:33:52.480
<v Speaker 2>and have no complicated feelings about the nature of my work.

0:33:52.920 --> 0:34:00.760
<v Speaker 2>Here they are. We're back and we're talking to Jonas

0:34:00.880 --> 0:34:03.560
<v Speaker 2>Salk born with no middle name, but he's going to

0:34:03.640 --> 0:34:05.080
<v Speaker 2>get one in an interesting way.

0:34:05.720 --> 0:34:06.160
<v Speaker 3>Can't wait.

0:34:06.800 --> 0:34:09.760
<v Speaker 2>That's my teaser. And it's not like me just adding

0:34:09.800 --> 0:34:12.680
<v Speaker 2>a eugenicist in quotas the middle name or whatever. No,

0:34:12.719 --> 0:34:15.440
<v Speaker 2>he actually gets an actual middle name. Jonah Salk was

0:34:15.440 --> 0:34:19.520
<v Speaker 2>born on October twenty eighth, nineteen fourteen, in East Harlem

0:34:19.560 --> 0:34:23.160
<v Speaker 2>in a tenement building. He was the first son of

0:34:23.280 --> 0:34:26.680
<v Speaker 2>Dora and Daniel Salk. His mother was a Russian Jew

0:34:26.719 --> 0:34:29.880
<v Speaker 2>from what's now Belarus. Her own parents had owned a

0:34:29.960 --> 0:34:33.400
<v Speaker 2>tavern in Minsk. Dora came over to Manhattan with her

0:34:33.440 --> 0:34:36.880
<v Speaker 2>family when she was thirteen, where she lived with others

0:34:36.920 --> 0:34:39.600
<v Speaker 2>in the wildly overcrowded tenements of the Lower East Side

0:34:39.640 --> 0:34:42.600
<v Speaker 2>and worked in the garment industry, which was not known

0:34:42.640 --> 0:34:45.400
<v Speaker 2>for good working conditions. And people who've listened to this

0:34:45.480 --> 0:34:47.719
<v Speaker 2>show and order have much of a grasp know that

0:34:47.760 --> 0:34:49.759
<v Speaker 2>the reason that Jews were leaving the Russian Empire is

0:34:49.800 --> 0:34:56.000
<v Speaker 2>that the Pograms were real not nice. The family did

0:34:56.040 --> 0:34:59.799
<v Speaker 2>fairly well for themselves, and Dora became a foreman at

0:34:59.840 --> 0:35:05.400
<v Speaker 2>the you know, tenement of sewing garment industry whatever. I

0:35:05.440 --> 0:35:08.160
<v Speaker 2>don't know the name of the place she worked, and

0:35:08.239 --> 0:35:11.040
<v Speaker 2>the family moved to East Harlem, where like more people

0:35:11.080 --> 0:35:13.880
<v Speaker 2>had like actual homes, but were still kind of crowded

0:35:13.880 --> 0:35:17.080
<v Speaker 2>into them. This is a like move from like poverty

0:35:17.120 --> 0:35:20.040
<v Speaker 2>to lower middle class. That's the best I can tell, Okay.

0:35:21.080 --> 0:35:24.000
<v Speaker 2>Jonas's dad, Daniel, was a Lithuanian Jews born in the

0:35:24.080 --> 0:35:28.400
<v Speaker 2>US and a lace maker who designed women's neckwear. He

0:35:28.520 --> 0:35:31.440
<v Speaker 2>was quiet and humble. His mom was driven in loud.

0:35:31.480 --> 0:35:33.759
<v Speaker 2>I have read so many biographies for this work where

0:35:33.760 --> 0:35:36.680
<v Speaker 2>they just like really want to complain about overbearing moms,

0:35:37.160 --> 0:35:40.520
<v Speaker 2>to the point where I actually just question everything about

0:35:40.560 --> 0:35:41.800
<v Speaker 2>the way the history is presented.

0:35:42.760 --> 0:35:49.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think the history of the overbearing mom, I

0:35:49.040 --> 0:35:50.680
<v Speaker 3>always question it every time I see it.

0:35:50.800 --> 0:35:57.839
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, yeah, in this case, Jonas likes his mom

0:35:58.719 --> 0:36:02.160
<v Speaker 2>and appreciates that she was a taskmaster.

0:36:03.280 --> 0:36:04.360
<v Speaker 3>Okay, okay.

0:36:05.280 --> 0:36:07.520
<v Speaker 2>When they wound up with Jonas their eldest kid, mom

0:36:07.600 --> 0:36:10.200
<v Speaker 2>was very active in directing his education and making sure

0:36:10.239 --> 0:36:12.840
<v Speaker 2>he started reading right away. And shit, she became a

0:36:12.840 --> 0:36:15.839
<v Speaker 2>stay at home mom and was apparently kind of domineering.

0:36:16.920 --> 0:36:20.520
<v Speaker 2>Our boy, Jonas skipped a bunch of grades, was very quiet,

0:36:20.880 --> 0:36:25.359
<v Speaker 2>ignored sports, and read books. He wasn't a very happy kid.

0:36:25.840 --> 0:36:28.600
<v Speaker 2>His mother treated him like an adult pretty much right away.

0:36:29.239 --> 0:36:31.359
<v Speaker 2>But he never blamed anything on his mother and said

0:36:31.400 --> 0:36:34.320
<v Speaker 2>that he inherited her work ethic and is very grateful

0:36:34.360 --> 0:36:37.759
<v Speaker 2>for it. And it is important to this story that

0:36:37.800 --> 0:36:40.160
<v Speaker 2>he is a Jewish kid, the child of an immigrant.

0:36:40.560 --> 0:36:43.480
<v Speaker 2>His Judaism is important to his work. He's not necessarily

0:36:43.520 --> 0:36:45.520
<v Speaker 2>like super observant near the end of his life as

0:36:45.520 --> 0:36:49.440
<v Speaker 2>a kid, he is, but though like cultural and sort

0:36:49.440 --> 0:36:52.840
<v Speaker 2>of theological underpinions remain important to him. I believe his

0:36:52.960 --> 0:36:57.960
<v Speaker 2>entire life he consciously accepts the Jewish obligation of takun alum,

0:36:58.280 --> 0:37:02.239
<v Speaker 2>which is repairing the world. You have an obligation to

0:37:02.280 --> 0:37:05.399
<v Speaker 2>make the world a better place, which is I think

0:37:05.400 --> 0:37:07.759
<v Speaker 2>cool as hell, although obviously people can interpret that to

0:37:07.760 --> 0:37:09.800
<v Speaker 2>me and I want to inject viruses and the children

0:37:09.880 --> 0:37:13.880
<v Speaker 2>to make them have different you know, genetic structures. But

0:37:15.840 --> 0:37:18.000
<v Speaker 2>first he just saves millions of lives.

0:37:18.080 --> 0:37:19.920
<v Speaker 3>Right, you know, at this level.

0:37:20.000 --> 0:37:22.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and he doesn't do any of the philosophical stuff

0:37:22.680 --> 0:37:25.719
<v Speaker 2>he dreams of later. So the thing he practically.

0:37:25.200 --> 0:37:27.759
<v Speaker 3>Does, it just seems a dream he has in his head.

0:37:29.480 --> 0:37:31.600
<v Speaker 2>I like went back and forth like four times already.

0:37:31.680 --> 0:37:32.680
<v Speaker 2>I had a moment where I was like, do I

0:37:32.680 --> 0:37:35.200
<v Speaker 2>have to just scrap this and styling, and I'm like,

0:37:35.680 --> 0:37:39.440
<v Speaker 2>he's just actually complicated and overall not looking great, but

0:37:40.000 --> 0:37:44.560
<v Speaker 2>he's still interesting. Early on, he decides that he wants

0:37:44.640 --> 0:37:47.360
<v Speaker 2>to work relieving the suffering of the sick and the injured.

0:37:48.120 --> 0:37:50.880
<v Speaker 2>And there's so much myth making about this guy, and

0:37:50.920 --> 0:37:52.400
<v Speaker 2>like there's like things you'll read where he's like he

0:37:52.440 --> 0:37:56.400
<v Speaker 2>saw the nineteen sixteen and nineteen eighteen pandemics, and I'm like, no,

0:37:56.480 --> 0:38:01.240
<v Speaker 2>he didn't. He was like three years old. He did, though,

0:38:01.440 --> 0:38:03.520
<v Speaker 2>grow up in the wake of those crises, and he

0:38:03.600 --> 0:38:07.040
<v Speaker 2>absolutely grew up knowing people who were paralyzed and dealing

0:38:07.040 --> 0:38:09.360
<v Speaker 2>with a lot of disability as a result of folio.

0:38:11.960 --> 0:38:14.520
<v Speaker 2>When he was twelve, he went to an all boys

0:38:14.600 --> 0:38:19.279
<v Speaker 2>prep school for City College. This school is free, but

0:38:19.360 --> 0:38:22.399
<v Speaker 2>it's incredibly hard to get into, which means that it's

0:38:22.440 --> 0:38:25.200
<v Speaker 2>mostly the children of immigrants who go there, and especially

0:38:25.280 --> 0:38:27.799
<v Speaker 2>Jewish immigrants based on the demographics of New York at

0:38:27.840 --> 0:38:31.400
<v Speaker 2>the time. I like grew up so outside of this concept.

0:38:31.600 --> 0:38:33.760
<v Speaker 2>This place is is like preppy I like didn't understand

0:38:33.800 --> 0:38:36.160
<v Speaker 2>what a prep school was. This place is as preppy

0:38:36.200 --> 0:38:40.440
<v Speaker 2>as a prep school can prep. Their school newspaper is

0:38:40.480 --> 0:38:41.120
<v Speaker 2>in Latin.

0:38:42.440 --> 0:38:44.600
<v Speaker 3>Oh okay.

0:38:45.800 --> 0:38:51.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it is more of a humanities school than a

0:38:51.239 --> 0:38:54.520
<v Speaker 2>stem school. And once he was there, he did not

0:38:54.680 --> 0:38:58.400
<v Speaker 2>stand out. He was class secretary, but not class president.

0:38:58.960 --> 0:39:00.640
<v Speaker 2>The only thing that stood out about him was that

0:39:00.719 --> 0:39:04.160
<v Speaker 2>he was a sharp dresser. He was quiet and dedicated

0:39:04.239 --> 0:39:06.840
<v Speaker 2>and figured he'd become a lawyer or a politician to

0:39:06.880 --> 0:39:10.319
<v Speaker 2>make the world better. Once again, politicians famously always making

0:39:10.360 --> 0:39:10.919
<v Speaker 2>the world better.

0:39:11.719 --> 0:39:17.800
<v Speaker 3>Definitely. Also just like I guess I'll just be a lawyer, yeah,

0:39:17.920 --> 0:39:19.000
<v Speaker 3>or a politician.

0:39:19.280 --> 0:39:21.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, whatever ever makes the world better. One of those

0:39:21.160 --> 0:39:27.000
<v Speaker 2>things I don't know. Yes, he was a prep school nerd.

0:39:27.680 --> 0:39:30.319
<v Speaker 2>He was in the Current History Society, and he was

0:39:30.360 --> 0:39:33.919
<v Speaker 2>in the Law and Debate Society. Oh wow, the Law

0:39:33.920 --> 0:39:36.920
<v Speaker 2>and Debate Society is one society. So that sounds extra miserable.

0:39:37.640 --> 0:39:41.799
<v Speaker 3>That sounds really intense. Yeah, law and debate, yeah, not

0:39:42.000 --> 0:39:44.920
<v Speaker 3>just debate. Yeah, we must have the law.

0:39:44.960 --> 0:39:47.279
<v Speaker 2>Whoever wins the debate gets to tell everyone who lives

0:39:47.280 --> 0:39:48.800
<v Speaker 2>and dies, so it's going to be totally normal.

0:39:49.480 --> 0:39:50.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, definitely.

0:39:51.440 --> 0:39:54.320
<v Speaker 2>He was the advertising manager for the yearbook and assistant

0:39:54.400 --> 0:39:57.720
<v Speaker 2>business manager of the school paper. They get a picture

0:39:57.760 --> 0:39:59.279
<v Speaker 2>of this guy, you're just like, he doesn't have a

0:39:59.320 --> 0:40:01.839
<v Speaker 2>lot of friends, Like, no one hates him. He's just there,

0:40:02.040 --> 0:40:02.239
<v Speaker 2>you know.

0:40:02.840 --> 0:40:05.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, he was doing a lot. We must say it was.

0:40:05.640 --> 0:40:07.360
<v Speaker 2>You want to guess what year he started college?

0:40:08.480 --> 0:40:10.439
<v Speaker 3>No, yeah, he least.

0:40:10.440 --> 0:40:12.400
<v Speaker 2>Don't make me he was fifteen years old when he

0:40:12.440 --> 0:40:15.279
<v Speaker 2>started college, because of course he fucking was.

0:40:15.560 --> 0:40:16.840
<v Speaker 3>Oh gosh.

0:40:16.880 --> 0:40:18.680
<v Speaker 2>He went to City College, which is what it was

0:40:18.680 --> 0:40:21.440
<v Speaker 2>a prep school for that he went to. And City

0:40:21.440 --> 0:40:25.600
<v Speaker 2>College was prestigious and free, and it was also eighty

0:40:25.640 --> 0:40:28.919
<v Speaker 2>percent Jewish because it was the place that immigrant kids

0:40:28.960 --> 0:40:33.120
<v Speaker 2>can go to. He barely made any friends. He was

0:40:33.160 --> 0:40:35.360
<v Speaker 2>going to do pre law, but then his mom was like, no,

0:40:35.560 --> 0:40:37.480
<v Speaker 2>you'd be terrible as a lawyer. You can't even beat

0:40:37.520 --> 0:40:40.960
<v Speaker 2>me in an argument, ow because he's not very like assertive,

0:40:41.080 --> 0:40:41.279
<v Speaker 2>you know.

0:40:41.520 --> 0:40:41.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:40:42.120 --> 0:40:44.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So he went into pre med and then his

0:40:44.320 --> 0:40:47.040
<v Speaker 2>mom was like, now you're too weak to be a doctor.

0:40:47.200 --> 0:40:48.120
<v Speaker 2>You should be a teacher.

0:40:48.520 --> 0:40:50.239
<v Speaker 1>Mom, sounds fun.

0:40:50.400 --> 0:40:53.160
<v Speaker 2>And he stood up for himself again he's myth making

0:40:53.280 --> 0:40:57.239
<v Speaker 2>against his overbearon mom, who he actually loved. He was like, no,

0:40:57.280 --> 0:40:58.160
<v Speaker 2>I like medicine.

0:40:58.200 --> 0:41:00.160
<v Speaker 1>He doesn't have a wife to blame at this point.

0:41:00.200 --> 0:41:04.000
<v Speaker 2>But he will have a wife to blame soon, don't worry. Yeah, yeah,

0:41:04.120 --> 0:41:04.600
<v Speaker 2>give it to that.

0:41:05.239 --> 0:41:07.880
<v Speaker 1>Men like this always have some woman where like it

0:41:07.920 --> 0:41:08.200
<v Speaker 1>was her.

0:41:08.320 --> 0:41:14.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Absolutely. He was like, I'm going to do medicine,

0:41:14.680 --> 0:41:16.640
<v Speaker 2>but I don't want to be a doctor. I want

0:41:16.680 --> 0:41:19.520
<v Speaker 2>to do medical science. He had read a book about

0:41:19.560 --> 0:41:22.800
<v Speaker 2>Louis Pasteur, the guy who did one a vaccine or whatever,

0:41:22.880 --> 0:41:25.520
<v Speaker 2>and he was like, all right, vaccines and shit, that's

0:41:25.520 --> 0:41:30.319
<v Speaker 2>my fucking thing. The problem with this, there's this free

0:41:30.360 --> 0:41:33.200
<v Speaker 2>school and it's full of Jewish immigrant kids, is that

0:41:33.320 --> 0:41:37.319
<v Speaker 2>higher education was anti Semitic and had informal caps on

0:41:37.320 --> 0:41:40.520
<v Speaker 2>the number of Jewish kids admitted. So it was very

0:41:40.560 --> 0:41:44.280
<v Speaker 2>hard for the city college kids to get into higher schools,

0:41:44.360 --> 0:41:48.440
<v Speaker 2>like once they finished their undergrad This entire establishment was

0:41:48.480 --> 0:41:50.640
<v Speaker 2>built and funded to help the children of immigrants, but

0:41:50.640 --> 0:41:53.399
<v Speaker 2>there's like a serious glass ceiling put into place by

0:41:53.440 --> 0:41:59.239
<v Speaker 2>WASP America. So Jonah Sulk applied everywhere and every place

0:41:59.280 --> 0:42:02.160
<v Speaker 2>rejected him. Mixed one. So we went to what's now

0:42:02.160 --> 0:42:06.720
<v Speaker 2>called the New York University College of Medicine. His interest

0:42:06.800 --> 0:42:09.120
<v Speaker 2>was in medical research and so people were like, just

0:42:09.120 --> 0:42:11.200
<v Speaker 2>get a PhD instead of an MD, and he was like, no,

0:42:11.239 --> 0:42:13.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to be a doctor, just a research doctor.

0:42:15.520 --> 0:42:19.560
<v Speaker 2>And in this new school he was entirely unremarkable and forgettable.

0:42:20.680 --> 0:42:23.560
<v Speaker 2>He barely made any friends. He lived at home with

0:42:23.640 --> 0:42:28.319
<v Speaker 2>his overbearing mom. Sorry anyway, oh god. He had to

0:42:28.360 --> 0:42:30.920
<v Speaker 2>find work to pay for school. So we started working

0:42:31.000 --> 0:42:34.520
<v Speaker 2>in research, and he was good at medical research right away.

0:42:34.960 --> 0:42:37.400
<v Speaker 2>If you were interested in animal rights, this man is

0:42:37.400 --> 0:42:37.879
<v Speaker 2>not a hero.

0:42:38.440 --> 0:42:41.799
<v Speaker 3>I was just one of the many maybe categories we

0:42:41.840 --> 0:42:42.520
<v Speaker 3>can say.

0:42:42.440 --> 0:42:44.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that one's like a style at the time thing,

0:42:44.600 --> 0:42:46.759
<v Speaker 2>and like animal testing is a complicated subject that I

0:42:46.800 --> 0:42:48.960
<v Speaker 2>don't want to get into the morality of anyway, whatever,

0:42:50.200 --> 0:42:52.359
<v Speaker 2>he starts working in research, and he is good at

0:42:52.360 --> 0:42:56.120
<v Speaker 2>this shit right away. His second research project was to

0:42:56.160 --> 0:42:59.360
<v Speaker 2>cultivate scarlet fever, or rather the bacteria that causes it,

0:43:00.040 --> 0:43:04.640
<v Speaker 2>and give rabbit scarlet fever. He improved the process of

0:43:04.680 --> 0:43:08.040
<v Speaker 2>cultivating bacteria, speeding it up by a factor of seven,

0:43:08.880 --> 0:43:11.680
<v Speaker 2>and got his first paper published in an academic journal

0:43:11.760 --> 0:43:15.279
<v Speaker 2>when he was twenty two. So this is like kind

0:43:15.320 --> 0:43:18.879
<v Speaker 2>of the first time he's like really like standing out, you.

0:43:18.840 --> 0:43:22.680
<v Speaker 3>Know, yeah, is overbearing mom.

0:43:22.800 --> 0:43:24.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we're all doing air quotes this whole time. I

0:43:24.640 --> 0:43:26.280
<v Speaker 2>think everyone can hear it in our voices.

0:43:26.400 --> 0:43:28.360
<v Speaker 3>I hope you can hear it an air quote. Yeah,

0:43:28.680 --> 0:43:30.640
<v Speaker 3>has been like, you're not good at this, You're not

0:43:30.680 --> 0:43:33.160
<v Speaker 3>good at this. He's been a part of all these

0:43:33.239 --> 0:43:39.920
<v Speaker 3>organizations and now has something that he feels good at.

0:43:40.040 --> 0:43:40.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:43:40.440 --> 0:43:43.480
<v Speaker 3>It's really painting a picture of somebody who was trying

0:43:43.520 --> 0:43:47.560
<v Speaker 3>a bunch of things and looking for the one thing

0:43:47.640 --> 0:43:50.239
<v Speaker 3>that they would really excel at.

0:43:50.840 --> 0:43:54.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, totally. He's good at this stuff. He might not

0:43:54.080 --> 0:43:57.319
<v Speaker 2>be as groundbreaking as people later paint him, but he

0:43:57.400 --> 0:44:03.080
<v Speaker 2>is genuinely good at this stuff. And when he gets

0:44:03.120 --> 0:44:06.960
<v Speaker 2>interested in vaccines, there are a few bacterial vaccines and

0:44:07.000 --> 0:44:12.319
<v Speaker 2>a few viral vaccines around, and bacterial vaccines can be

0:44:12.360 --> 0:44:17.200
<v Speaker 2>made using dead bacteria, but viral vaccines at the time,

0:44:18.120 --> 0:44:21.880
<v Speaker 2>like for smallpox, rabies, and yellow fever, they had to

0:44:21.920 --> 0:44:25.520
<v Speaker 2>be made out of weakened but live viruses. So you

0:44:25.600 --> 0:44:29.120
<v Speaker 2>isolate a virus, beat it up, tell it that it's

0:44:29.160 --> 0:44:31.960
<v Speaker 2>no good, never going to amount to anything, and then

0:44:32.440 --> 0:44:36.200
<v Speaker 2>you inject that into someone and this is seen as

0:44:36.200 --> 0:44:40.359
<v Speaker 2>an axiom. Viral infections can only be vaccinated against by

0:44:40.400 --> 0:44:45.720
<v Speaker 2>live viruses and live virus vaccines are inherently a bit riskier.

0:44:46.200 --> 0:44:48.960
<v Speaker 2>People still use them, and actually it's going to be

0:44:49.040 --> 0:44:52.360
<v Speaker 2>a live virus that's going to actually get rid of folio.

0:44:54.320 --> 0:44:58.440
<v Speaker 2>Live vaccines are more likely to provide lifelong immunity. You

0:44:58.800 --> 0:45:01.080
<v Speaker 2>and everyone listening to this as likely had both, and

0:45:01.120 --> 0:45:03.600
<v Speaker 2>if you haven't, then get mad at your parents for

0:45:03.719 --> 0:45:07.800
<v Speaker 2>not vaccinating you and go get vaccinated. But live vaccines

0:45:07.800 --> 0:45:10.759
<v Speaker 2>are not always appropriate. The flu shot we use now

0:45:10.840 --> 0:45:14.480
<v Speaker 2>is an inactive vaccine. It's a dead virus vaccine. And

0:45:14.600 --> 0:45:18.560
<v Speaker 2>Jonas Sulk is part of why we get the flu shot.

0:45:18.960 --> 0:45:22.520
<v Speaker 2>He was working for a virologist named Thomas Francis Junior,

0:45:22.760 --> 0:45:25.200
<v Speaker 2>who was the first man to isolate the flu virus

0:45:25.640 --> 0:45:29.080
<v Speaker 2>and later who developed the flu shot, or led the

0:45:29.120 --> 0:45:31.120
<v Speaker 2>research team that developed the flu shot. There's a lot

0:45:31.120 --> 0:45:34.319
<v Speaker 2>of I mean, no one's like writing hagiographies about him,

0:45:34.320 --> 0:45:38.719
<v Speaker 2>but you know he's part of a team. Thomas had

0:45:38.800 --> 0:45:43.360
<v Speaker 2>Jonas try to stimulate antibodies in mice with that flu virus.

0:45:43.840 --> 0:45:46.279
<v Speaker 2>The basic idea of vaccines, which people probably know, but

0:45:46.280 --> 0:45:48.560
<v Speaker 2>in case you don't, say, either contain antibodies to a

0:45:48.640 --> 0:45:51.759
<v Speaker 2>viral or bacterial infection or they convince your body to

0:45:51.800 --> 0:45:56.280
<v Speaker 2>make its own antibodies, which is even better. So Jonas

0:45:56.320 --> 0:45:59.680
<v Speaker 2>is working to stimulate antibodies in mice with dead flu

0:45:59.760 --> 0:46:04.880
<v Speaker 2>virus like a normal person who has normal hobbies. I'm

0:46:05.040 --> 0:46:07.360
<v Speaker 2>actually gratefully did this. I'm not complaining.

0:46:08.520 --> 0:46:08.719
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:46:09.440 --> 0:46:13.680
<v Speaker 2>Meanwhile, he fell for a woman named Donna Lindsay, who

0:46:13.719 --> 0:46:15.759
<v Speaker 2>was an inch taller than him and from a rich

0:46:15.840 --> 0:46:20.000
<v Speaker 2>family and was pursuing her master's in social work at

0:46:20.000 --> 0:46:23.400
<v Speaker 2>this point. They're both leftists, and they shared a desire

0:46:23.440 --> 0:46:26.680
<v Speaker 2>to make the world better. This does not sound like

0:46:26.719 --> 0:46:29.200
<v Speaker 2>a really great romance. He was completely smitten with her

0:46:29.239 --> 0:46:32.640
<v Speaker 2>and she was like, I don't know. And I've read

0:46:32.640 --> 0:46:34.960
<v Speaker 2>it described in multiple places as he basically kind of

0:46:34.960 --> 0:46:36.800
<v Speaker 2>wore her down until she was like final, marry you.

0:46:38.200 --> 0:46:43.319
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. She was like I don't need you. I'm good.

0:46:43.719 --> 0:46:47.040
<v Speaker 2>But he yeah, he persisted, which means that she's going

0:46:47.080 --> 0:46:49.080
<v Speaker 2>to have to like give up her career and like

0:46:49.760 --> 0:46:53.000
<v Speaker 2>raise their kids, and like it was a you know,

0:46:53.200 --> 0:46:54.440
<v Speaker 2>it was the early twentieth century.

0:46:55.280 --> 0:46:59.479
<v Speaker 3>It was like the type of romances that we still

0:46:59.560 --> 0:47:03.359
<v Speaker 3>unfortunate sometimes paint romantically, but at the time was very

0:47:03.480 --> 0:47:07.360
<v Speaker 3>romantic of just a man being like I got her eventually,

0:47:07.400 --> 0:47:11.400
<v Speaker 3>I wore her dad. Yeah, she saw how smart I was.

0:47:11.880 --> 0:47:12.840
<v Speaker 3>I'm not a nerd.

0:47:13.000 --> 0:47:17.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, totally. Well, and he's like, she's so beautiful, and

0:47:17.280 --> 0:47:23.759
<v Speaker 2>she's always like he's all right, I don't know. He

0:47:23.840 --> 0:47:28.120
<v Speaker 2>graduated on June eighth, nineteen thirty nine, and he and

0:47:28.160 --> 0:47:31.200
<v Speaker 2>Donna got married on June ninth, nineteen thirty nine, the

0:47:31.360 --> 0:47:33.960
<v Speaker 2>very next day. And the reason it happened in this

0:47:34.120 --> 0:47:38.280
<v Speaker 2>order is that she's from this like wealthy Jewish family,

0:47:38.520 --> 0:47:41.000
<v Speaker 2>and his parents don't like that her family isn't really

0:47:41.040 --> 0:47:46.120
<v Speaker 2>practicing Jewish, but her family doesn't like that his family

0:47:46.200 --> 0:47:51.640
<v Speaker 2>is poor. Donna's dad is already pretty mad that his

0:47:51.719 --> 0:47:54.920
<v Speaker 2>daughter is marrying below her station, so he insisted that

0:47:54.960 --> 0:47:58.880
<v Speaker 2>it be done after he graduated, so that the announcement

0:47:58.960 --> 0:48:03.640
<v Speaker 2>could say Jonas Edward Sulk MD. And you might be

0:48:03.640 --> 0:48:07.320
<v Speaker 2>thinking to yourself, but doesn't he not have a middle name? Well,

0:48:08.239 --> 0:48:11.360
<v Speaker 2>Donna's dad was mad that Jonas didn't have a middle

0:48:11.400 --> 0:48:16.360
<v Speaker 2>name had not been properly anglicized, so he insisted that

0:48:16.440 --> 0:48:21.439
<v Speaker 2>Jonas take Edward as a middle name. So he gets

0:48:21.440 --> 0:48:23.560
<v Speaker 2>his middle name from his father in law, who's like,

0:48:23.640 --> 0:48:24.440
<v Speaker 2>you are an Edward.

0:48:26.719 --> 0:48:32.000
<v Speaker 3>Wow, there's also something to be said about you know what,

0:48:33.040 --> 0:48:36.200
<v Speaker 3>the day after you graduate, we're just going to take

0:48:36.239 --> 0:48:37.839
<v Speaker 3>out all the air out of what you.

0:48:37.840 --> 0:48:42.719
<v Speaker 2>Did, Yeah and put it here totally, totally.

0:48:42.960 --> 0:48:44.840
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that was a real move. Okay.

0:48:45.960 --> 0:48:48.919
<v Speaker 2>So he's married now and I think he moves out

0:48:48.920 --> 0:48:51.960
<v Speaker 2>of the house. He has a two year internship at

0:48:51.960 --> 0:48:54.799
<v Speaker 2>a research hospital and he wanted to keep doing virology,

0:48:55.280 --> 0:48:57.479
<v Speaker 2>but he was Jewish and he wasn't from an ivy league,

0:48:57.520 --> 0:49:01.359
<v Speaker 2>so he kept getting turned down everywhere. Hill His former supervisor,

0:49:01.520 --> 0:49:03.720
<v Speaker 2>Thomas Franz and Junior, the guy who had him testing

0:49:03.760 --> 0:49:06.919
<v Speaker 2>dead viruses on mice, brought him out to ann Arbor,

0:49:06.960 --> 0:49:10.719
<v Speaker 2>Michigan to keep working on influenza. Eventually, Donna's going to

0:49:10.760 --> 0:49:12.799
<v Speaker 2>be like, I'm you can't just fucking drag me all

0:49:12.800 --> 0:49:15.200
<v Speaker 2>over the country for your shitty fucking research and then

0:49:15.239 --> 0:49:18.359
<v Speaker 2>ignore me all the time. But that hasn't happened yet,

0:49:19.320 --> 0:49:22.560
<v Speaker 2>and he like never talked about her or their relationship,

0:49:22.680 --> 0:49:27.560
<v Speaker 2>like would be shocked to know anyway, they're out ann Arbor,

0:49:28.400 --> 0:49:30.920
<v Speaker 2>Thomas Francis Junior and some others had developed a vaccine

0:49:30.960 --> 0:49:33.440
<v Speaker 2>ready for human trials for the first time for the

0:49:33.440 --> 0:49:37.120
<v Speaker 2>flu shot and the lab rats that they were going

0:49:37.160 --> 0:49:41.080
<v Speaker 2>to use for this were patients at state hospitals for

0:49:41.120 --> 0:49:43.520
<v Speaker 2>people with severe mental illnesses who were not in any

0:49:43.520 --> 0:49:45.200
<v Speaker 2>way able to provide meaningful consent.

0:49:46.080 --> 0:49:47.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. I love that.

0:49:48.480 --> 0:49:49.640
<v Speaker 2>History is a nightmare land.

0:49:50.760 --> 0:49:55.080
<v Speaker 3>Yah okay.

0:49:56.000 --> 0:49:58.560
<v Speaker 2>Jonas Salk spoke at the end of his life about

0:49:58.560 --> 0:50:02.080
<v Speaker 2>the importance of taking calculate risks in order to advance science.

0:50:03.000 --> 0:50:06.600
<v Speaker 2>He seemed to genuinely consider the human costs of those risks,

0:50:06.960 --> 0:50:11.520
<v Speaker 2>but he sure took a lot of them. He oversaw

0:50:11.600 --> 0:50:14.759
<v Speaker 2>eight thousand patients who got the vaccine or a placebo.

0:50:15.920 --> 0:50:18.840
<v Speaker 2>Antibodies went up, but there was no flu that season,

0:50:18.920 --> 0:50:23.160
<v Speaker 2>so they couldn't really prove anything. So they were like, ah,

0:50:23.200 --> 0:50:25.520
<v Speaker 2>the problem is that none of these people got the flu.

0:50:26.040 --> 0:50:32.480
<v Speaker 2>Option A, Oh, no way to hear. Option B. Take

0:50:32.520 --> 0:50:35.480
<v Speaker 2>infected mouse lung tissue and spray it into people's noses

0:50:35.480 --> 0:50:37.440
<v Speaker 2>who are not able to consent because they have severe

0:50:37.440 --> 0:50:40.560
<v Speaker 2>mental illnesses and rewards of the state. He goes for

0:50:40.640 --> 0:50:41.279
<v Speaker 2>Option B.

0:50:42.120 --> 0:50:46.239
<v Speaker 3>Yep, that's what I was afraid of. Yeah.

0:50:47.000 --> 0:50:49.400
<v Speaker 2>This kind of thing did not fall out of style

0:50:49.520 --> 0:50:53.440
<v Speaker 2>until the Nuremberg Trials of nineteen forty seven, when people

0:50:53.480 --> 0:50:56.880
<v Speaker 2>were like, maybe there should be ethical standards for testing

0:50:56.920 --> 0:50:57.440
<v Speaker 2>on people.

0:50:58.160 --> 0:51:02.080
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, maybe there's a lot of stuff that the Nazis

0:51:02.080 --> 0:51:04.040
<v Speaker 3>did that was kind of just what everyone in the

0:51:04.080 --> 0:51:07.280
<v Speaker 3>West was doing, but cranked up like three notches.

0:51:07.880 --> 0:51:11.040
<v Speaker 2>You know, Yeah, and it made everyone feel like, oh,

0:51:11.920 --> 0:51:12.520
<v Speaker 2>were we doing.

0:51:12.480 --> 0:51:15.239
<v Speaker 3>Let's really go for it. Yeah, if we're gonna do it,

0:51:15.360 --> 0:51:18.799
<v Speaker 3>let's just go yeah, and made everybody else be like,

0:51:19.680 --> 0:51:21.760
<v Speaker 3>oh yeah, yeah.

0:51:22.280 --> 0:51:24.160
<v Speaker 2>You'd think they'd be like, maybe this eugenics thing is

0:51:24.200 --> 0:51:26.480
<v Speaker 2>no good, but it actually took decades before the West

0:51:26.520 --> 0:51:30.239
<v Speaker 2>got over their obsession with eugenics. Some people like Sock

0:51:30.320 --> 0:51:32.840
<v Speaker 2>died obsessed with I don't know if he defined what

0:51:32.880 --> 0:51:35.160
<v Speaker 2>he did as eugenics. I couldn't actually find the answer

0:51:35.200 --> 0:51:38.360
<v Speaker 2>to that, but we'll talk about that later. This worked,

0:51:38.440 --> 0:51:40.839
<v Speaker 2>the flu shots and the giving people the flu without

0:51:40.880 --> 0:51:43.600
<v Speaker 2>their permission. The control group got the flu at about

0:51:43.640 --> 0:51:47.440
<v Speaker 2>fifty percent, while the vaccinated folks got it at sixteen percent,

0:51:47.840 --> 0:51:50.759
<v Speaker 2>so it was very effective at stopping the flu that year.

0:51:52.120 --> 0:51:54.040
<v Speaker 2>In nineteen forty three, they got to show the world

0:51:54.040 --> 0:51:57.560
<v Speaker 2>that they'd done good as a flu epidemic spread. Twelve

0:51:58.040 --> 0:52:00.920
<v Speaker 2>five hundred soldiers were put into a try no need

0:52:00.960 --> 0:52:03.560
<v Speaker 2>to spray infected mouse lungs into their noses because there's

0:52:03.600 --> 0:52:07.200
<v Speaker 2>actually a flu this year and only two percent of

0:52:07.239 --> 0:52:11.000
<v Speaker 2>the inoculated folks got sick, and the mental patients who

0:52:11.000 --> 0:52:14.400
<v Speaker 2>had been tested on the year before were still immune.

0:52:14.880 --> 0:52:18.960
<v Speaker 2>So dead viruses can work. And that's where we're going

0:52:19.040 --> 0:52:23.960
<v Speaker 2>to leave it today. Our hero is doing great things.

0:52:24.640 --> 0:52:26.400
<v Speaker 2>It's just messy. This is just like like he's not

0:52:26.880 --> 0:52:30.600
<v Speaker 2>in any way acting abnormally to what he does for

0:52:30.680 --> 0:52:34.319
<v Speaker 2>work at this point, and that's just an indictment of

0:52:35.040 --> 0:52:37.040
<v Speaker 2>people refusing to think about ethics.

0:52:37.560 --> 0:52:41.960
<v Speaker 3>Wow, well, I'm very eager to see the downfall of

0:52:42.040 --> 0:52:45.239
<v Speaker 3>this year. Oh that doesn't happen like the teas of

0:52:45.320 --> 0:52:46.040
<v Speaker 3>the downfall.

0:52:46.239 --> 0:52:48.279
<v Speaker 2>No, he die as a hero.

0:52:49.360 --> 0:52:50.200
<v Speaker 3>Ah Okay.

0:52:51.000 --> 0:52:53.720
<v Speaker 2>I started researching him because people painted a real pretty

0:52:53.719 --> 0:52:55.080
<v Speaker 2>picture of him, and I was like, he's going to

0:52:55.120 --> 0:52:57.720
<v Speaker 2>win to cover because you can paint a real pretty

0:52:57.719 --> 0:53:01.120
<v Speaker 2>picture of this man. And like maybe this is just

0:53:01.120 --> 0:53:04.359
<v Speaker 2>like a no Heroes moment right where you're like, well, yeah,

0:53:04.480 --> 0:53:07.759
<v Speaker 2>whoever does this kind of work is going to have

0:53:08.960 --> 0:53:12.200
<v Speaker 2>a willingness to hurt people to help people in a

0:53:12.239 --> 0:53:18.040
<v Speaker 2>way that is like morally messy. But I still kind

0:53:18.040 --> 0:53:21.560
<v Speaker 2>of come down on this particular guy not so great.

0:53:21.680 --> 0:53:24.799
<v Speaker 3>In the end, I think taking in the complexities of

0:53:24.840 --> 0:53:30.080
<v Speaker 3>anybody is good. Yeah, and then like science, weighing the

0:53:30.120 --> 0:53:33.520
<v Speaker 3>information you get and forming your opinion.

0:53:34.239 --> 0:53:37.319
<v Speaker 2>Ah, all right, well instead of telling the listener what

0:53:37.360 --> 0:53:38.960
<v Speaker 2>to think about this man, you mean, I should just

0:53:39.480 --> 0:53:44.719
<v Speaker 2>continue to explain this story and then interesting. Although I

0:53:44.719 --> 0:53:46.400
<v Speaker 2>didn't name this cool people did cool stuff, so I

0:53:46.440 --> 0:53:48.360
<v Speaker 2>always feel like I got to kind of specifically be like,

0:53:49.719 --> 0:53:52.440
<v Speaker 2>this man is not worthy of the title. But the

0:53:52.480 --> 0:53:56.560
<v Speaker 2>thing that happened, the creation of a polio vaccine is.

0:53:56.920 --> 0:54:00.719
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well that's also complicated, you know, was just called

0:54:00.760 --> 0:54:01.520
<v Speaker 3>cool stuff too.

0:54:01.560 --> 0:54:06.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, totally, it's just cool stuff. Well, if people are like,

0:54:06.120 --> 0:54:08.880
<v Speaker 2>but I want to hear you any Reese on the

0:54:08.920 --> 0:54:10.880
<v Speaker 2>podcast more, but I don't want to wait till Wednesday.

0:54:11.320 --> 0:54:11.960
<v Speaker 2>What can they do?

0:54:12.520 --> 0:54:15.239
<v Speaker 3>Well, you can find me on stuff when I ever

0:54:15.280 --> 0:54:19.319
<v Speaker 3>told you, or savor wherever you get your podcast and

0:54:19.400 --> 0:54:21.879
<v Speaker 3>I'm out and about but not really yeah, fair enough,

0:54:22.120 --> 0:54:24.200
<v Speaker 3>I don't even know why say yeah, but yes, you

0:54:24.239 --> 0:54:25.080
<v Speaker 3>can find me there.

0:54:25.640 --> 0:54:28.480
<v Speaker 2>I finally post on Instagram like yesterday, being like I'm

0:54:28.560 --> 0:54:31.440
<v Speaker 2>not checking Dmazon here anymore. I am so tired of

0:54:31.480 --> 0:54:32.720
<v Speaker 2>meta with a company.

0:54:33.960 --> 0:54:36.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, pretty much.

0:54:36.080 --> 0:54:38.480
<v Speaker 2>That's where I am still on Blue Sky. You can

0:54:38.480 --> 0:54:42.759
<v Speaker 2>find me there. I'm on Substack find me there. And

0:54:43.880 --> 0:54:48.080
<v Speaker 2>podcasts and also what podcast I listened to this week

0:54:48.080 --> 0:54:49.920
<v Speaker 2>that I was like, I can't wait to plug this one.

0:54:49.960 --> 0:54:51.520
<v Speaker 3>On air now.

0:54:51.560 --> 0:54:55.920
<v Speaker 2>I don't remember what it was. I don't know. Sorry,

0:54:56.239 --> 0:54:58.080
<v Speaker 2>it was probably sixteenth minute, but I don't even remember

0:54:58.120 --> 0:54:59.600
<v Speaker 2>what the most recent sixteenth minute was.

0:54:59.760 --> 0:55:02.840
<v Speaker 1>So it's about the Hawk Tua sec scandal.

0:55:03.160 --> 0:55:05.839
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I mean I did listen to that, but I.

0:55:05.840 --> 0:55:08.080
<v Speaker 1>Was like, that doesn't seem like something you'd be like, wow, wow,

0:55:08.120 --> 0:55:10.160
<v Speaker 1>wow about really great episode by the way she.

0:55:10.120 --> 0:55:11.840
<v Speaker 2>Listened, it is a good episode. Good yeah, and it

0:55:11.880 --> 0:55:12.719
<v Speaker 2>was a good update to it.

0:55:12.920 --> 0:55:15.239
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, but like financial scandal, not really your

0:55:16.360 --> 0:55:16.759
<v Speaker 1>What was the.

0:55:16.719 --> 0:55:17.920
<v Speaker 2>Most recent Hood Politics?

0:55:17.920 --> 0:55:19.960
<v Speaker 3>Maybe? Is that politics?

0:55:19.960 --> 0:55:20.479
<v Speaker 1>A great show?

0:55:21.120 --> 0:55:21.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

0:55:21.719 --> 0:55:24.520
<v Speaker 2>Well, listen to Hood Politics with prop and sixteenth minute

0:55:24.640 --> 0:55:27.439
<v Speaker 2>and everything else from cool Zone Media and everything else

0:55:27.480 --> 0:55:30.279
<v Speaker 2>that Annie Reese does, and listen to all of it

0:55:30.320 --> 0:55:32.279
<v Speaker 2>before Wednesday, because I will be quizzing you.

0:55:33.000 --> 0:55:35.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, all right, hi everyone? Ye.

0:55:38.360 --> 0:55:40.840
<v Speaker 1>Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

0:55:40.880 --> 0:55:43.959
<v Speaker 1>cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media,

0:55:44.160 --> 0:55:47.399
<v Speaker 1>visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com or check us out

0:55:47.520 --> 0:55:50.879
<v Speaker 1>on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

0:55:50.920 --> 0:55:52.160
<v Speaker 1>your podcasts.