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Speaker 1: Hello listeners, Caitlin here dropping in at the top of

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Speaker 1: the episode to give you one final reminder about the

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Speaker 1: Shrek Tannek tour which starts next week. And you're also

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Speaker 1: about to find out that this is my birthday episode.

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Speaker 1: So if you would like to give me the most

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Speaker 1: wonderful birthday gift of all, you can do so by

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Speaker 1: buying tickets to the shows on this tour, which are

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Speaker 1: two shows in London on May twenty second, followed by

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Speaker 1: a show in Oxford with the Saint Audio Podcast Festival

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Speaker 1: on May twenty fourth, then Edinburgh on May twenty sixth,

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Speaker 1: Manchester on May twenty eighth, and Dublin on May twenty ninth.

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Speaker 1: Right now, there are still a few tickets available for

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Speaker 1: all of these shows, and it would just really mean

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Speaker 1: the world if you came out to see us live.

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Speaker 1: We have so much fun, goofy stuff planned, stuff you've

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Speaker 1: never seen or heard before. So do yourself a favor.

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Speaker 1: Do not miss these shows, which you can buy tickets

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Speaker 1: to at link tree slash Bechdel Cast. We will see

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Speaker 1: you there. We are so freaking excited. The other thing

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Speaker 1: switching gears here, but the other thing that we want

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Speaker 1: to do at the top of the episode is to

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Speaker 1: place a content warning for domestic abuse and violence, as

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Speaker 1: that is a component of our discussion on this episode.

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Speaker 1: Enjoy the episode.

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Speaker 2: On the Bechdelcast, the questions ask if movies have women

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Speaker 2: and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands

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Speaker 2: or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy? Zeff and

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Speaker 2: vest start changing with the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 3: Hey Caitlin, Hey Jamie, are you telling me that for

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Speaker 3: the last six or seven years you've also been podcasting

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Speaker 3: in secret? Well?

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Speaker 1: Gee, I don't know. I'm gonna be really secretive about it.

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Speaker 3: I guess the only way to get to the bottom

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Speaker 3: of it.

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Speaker 1: Is to kill each other, or to join forces and

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Speaker 1: do a podcast together.

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Speaker 3: Wow, and revitalize our relationship by hot started. God, wouldn't

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Speaker 3: that be I haven't seen the reboot, but what if

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Speaker 3: that is what happens, mister and missus Smith just start

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Speaker 3: a podcast. That would be such a bummer. I really

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Speaker 3: hope that that doesn't happen. Did you watch the show?

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Speaker 1: I didn't watch the whole thing, but I saw the pilot,

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Speaker 1: so I can describe the premise based on that.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I read about it, but I feel like that's

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Speaker 3: sometimes what happens now on shows where they're just like

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Speaker 3: they're under thirty five. Should they have a podcast? Unclear?

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Speaker 3: Maybe anyways, do do do? Happy birthday to Caitlin. Maybe

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Speaker 3: that's exactly who.

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Speaker 1: Oh happy thank you today, Thank you so much. It's

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Speaker 1: true as my birthday. And that's why I picked this movie,

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Speaker 1: Mister and Missus Smith, two thousand and five, because it

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Speaker 1: used to be a movie I really liked and now

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Speaker 1: maybe not so much.

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Speaker 3: I'm excited and if this happens to be your first

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Speaker 3: time around here, because you're a huge mister and Missus Smith,

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Speaker 3: two thousand and five fan, Welcome to the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 3: My name's Jamie Loftus.

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Speaker 1: My name is Caitlin Drante, and this is our podcast

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Speaker 1: where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens using

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Speaker 1: the Bechdel Test just to get the dang conversation going,

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Speaker 1: except we wait till the very end of the episode

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Speaker 1: to talk about it. Yeah, it makes sense.

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Speaker 3: It really does, it really does. The Bechdel Test is,

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Speaker 3: of course, a media metric created by cartoonist Alison Bechdel,

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Speaker 3: sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace Test because she co created

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Speaker 3: it with her friend Liz Wallace. Lots of different versions

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Speaker 3: of this test. The one we use.

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Speaker 4: For our purposes requires that two people, two characters of

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Speaker 4: a marginalized gender, speak to each other about something other

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Speaker 4: than a man for more than two lines.

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Speaker 3: Of dialogue, and it should be a meaningful exchange and

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Speaker 3: then we just sort of start the conversation from there.

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Speaker 3: It's thrilling.

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Speaker 1: So today's movie is, like I said, mister missus Smith, Jamie,

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Speaker 1: what is your relationship, if any, with the dang movie?

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Speaker 3: Easy? Nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing. I had never seen this movie.

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Speaker 3: I feel like I'm coming in completely cold because not

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Speaker 3: only have I never seen this, I had no interest

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Speaker 3: in the reboot because I had never seen this. I

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Speaker 3: really have never had much of an I mean, especially

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Speaker 3: as time goes on, as we'll talk about, I've never

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Speaker 3: really had much of an interest in Brad Pitt or

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Speaker 3: Angelina jo Lee action movies. So this was just never

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Speaker 3: going to be a movie I was good to see. Yeah, fair,

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Speaker 3: even though I think that, Like, I mean, when this

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Speaker 3: movie came out, he was like eleven or twelve, so

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Speaker 3: I feel like I should have been I feel like

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Speaker 3: that's a very like gossip magazine age, but I was

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Speaker 3: also not very invested in the media narrative. I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I guess this one just missed me. I just didn't care. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and I have to say not to be a downer

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Speaker 3: at the top of the episode. I watched the movie

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Speaker 3: and I care less than ever. Yeah, I didn't like

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Speaker 3: it very much. Although I do get like watching it now,

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Speaker 3: I do get why people liked it at the time.

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Speaker 3: I get it. It's a sexy little movie, yeah, and

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Speaker 3: it has its moments. But yeah, just really was not

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Speaker 3: doing very much for me. Caitlin, what is your history

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Speaker 3: with mister and Missus Smith.

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Speaker 1: I saw in theaters in two thousand and five. I

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Speaker 1: was either a freshman or sophomore in college, so you know,

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Speaker 1: I didn't have the most refined taste, and I thought

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Speaker 1: this movie was awesome. I was like, Wow, look at

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Speaker 1: these hot people being so hot, and they're hot near

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Speaker 1: each other, and they're hot on top of each other,

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Speaker 1: and they're fighting and then they're kissing and WOWI wow.

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Speaker 1: These are all the very nuanced thoughts going through my head.

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Speaker 1: And I thought it was a fun movie. And then

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Speaker 1: I bought it on DVD and I watched it a

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Speaker 1: lot on DVD, and I still have the DVD brag

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Speaker 1: for that.

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Speaker 3: Your DVD collection is a thing of beauty.

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Speaker 1: I really don't stand by a lot of it, but

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Speaker 1: it is there.

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Speaker 3: That's growth. That's growth.

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Speaker 1: I feel like, thank you.

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Speaker 3: It's very alarming when someone's taste never changes. Yeah, if

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Speaker 3: everyone can vouch for their DVD collection from twenty years ago, folks,

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Speaker 3: we've got a problem. You've got to look in word. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: you know, there has to be certain things that you

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Speaker 3: cannot answer for.

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Speaker 2: M hm.

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Speaker 3: What was it like rewatching?

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Speaker 1: I thought that the storytelling was sloppy and the pacing

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Speaker 1: was really bad. Yeah, because since I first saw this movie,

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Speaker 1: I of course went on to get a master's degree

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Speaker 1: in screenwriting from Boston University, something I would never mention,

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Speaker 1: but I have a far better understanding of, you know,

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Speaker 1: narrative structure and pacing. And I was like, oh, this

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Speaker 1: movie like lags. There's a lot of like unnecessary repetition

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Speaker 1: in the exposition, Like this could have been streamlined significantly.

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Speaker 1: I thought the storytelling was just like not very well done,

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Speaker 1: especially in Act one.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was sort of those movies where I couldn't

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Speaker 3: tell if it was the writing or if I was

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Speaker 3: just bored. But I did find like a lot of

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Speaker 3: the establishing information confusing, right, I mean, this is just

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Speaker 3: movie logic. But I'm like, they didn't know, right then,

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Speaker 3: you guys are a joke. You're bad at your job

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Speaker 3: because you're not being very subtle.

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Speaker 1: They are pretty bad at their jobs. The other thing

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Speaker 1: about this movie is that so I teach screenwriting classes

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Speaker 1: using aforementioned degree that I would never mention.

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Speaker 5: Plus plus plugs, and the main assignment in my intro

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Speaker 5: level class is for students to write a film treatment.

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Speaker 1: And I send them various treatments as an example of

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Speaker 1: what to do and how to write a treatment. And

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Speaker 1: I would say the best one I have found after

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Speaker 1: scouring the internet is the treatment for mister and Missus Smith. Really,

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Speaker 1: a lot of the treatments are either that are available

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Speaker 1: online at least that I have access to. They're either

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Speaker 1: a James Cameron's script Mint, so it's like seventy pages

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Speaker 1: long and he basically just wrote the script but kind

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Speaker 1: of summarized it also, so those aren't useful, or their

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Speaker 1: treatments that just like aren't very good at encapsulating like

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Speaker 1: what the story of the movie is. So even though

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Speaker 1: this is like not a masterpiece of cinema, the treatment

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Speaker 1: for it is at least effective at being a treatment

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Speaker 1: and serving the purpose that a treatment is supposed to serve.

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Speaker 1: So I send this to all my students, and this

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Speaker 1: is kind of like the main one that we study,

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Speaker 1: and so I'm constantly rereading the treatment for this movie.

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Speaker 3: Wow. Yeah, So, like you actually have a consistent and

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Speaker 3: like rather intimate relationship with this movie.

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Speaker 1: This is wild, right, But I hadn't rewatched the movie

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Speaker 1: probably since like twenty ten, twenty eleven, Like it definitely

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Speaker 1: fell off for me, and it wasn't something I was

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Speaker 1: consistently watching after the first few years of enjoying it.

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Speaker 1: But I do have this kind of like intimate relationship

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Speaker 1: with at least the premise of the movie, and so

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Speaker 1: I was excited to go back and rewatch it to

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Speaker 1: see if it held up at all. And I would say,

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Speaker 1: generally the answer is no, although I don't know if

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Speaker 1: it was just the nostalgia, but I was like, I'm

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Speaker 1: still having fun. There's still some fun set pieces and sequences.

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Speaker 3: Definitely, and also I mean like there's certain like images

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Speaker 3: where well, I don't even know if this is necessarily true,

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Speaker 3: but there are a few images in this movie that

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Speaker 3: I'm like, they don't make shots like that anymore. And

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Speaker 3: I'm thinking of Angelina Joe snapping someone's neck basically as Catwoman,

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Speaker 3: then jumping off a building with an umbrella and getting

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Speaker 3: into a cab all in the space of twenty seconds.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, yes, now that was cinema. That was cinema.

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Speaker 3: That was pretty amazing.

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Speaker 1: The movie feels like a movie in that moment.

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Speaker 3: The movie was really feeling like a movie, because this

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Speaker 3: is not a movie in which magic is a factor.

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Speaker 3: But like Catwoman, Mary Poppins, I know there was some

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Speaker 3: sort of gadget, but I was like, no way, no way.

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Speaker 3: I know, wow, that's passive. Well, I'm excited to talk

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Speaker 3: about the story. I also did a fairly deep dive

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Speaker 3: on the meat because I mean that to me, when

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Speaker 3: I think of mister and Missus Smith, I think of

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Speaker 3: the media cycles around it more so than the movie

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Speaker 3: that I didn't care about, never saw. So we're firing

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Speaker 3: on all cylinders today because it was. I mean, it's

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Speaker 3: probably one of the most famous tabloid sagas of our

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Speaker 3: lifetime that has oh boy been, I think thoughtfully reappraised

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Speaker 3: many times in the last couple of years. And also

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Speaker 3: Brad Pitt is a domestic abuser. We simply have to

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Speaker 3: say it at the top of the show. Whose children

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Speaker 3: hate him? So you know, so much to talk about today,

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Speaker 3: a rich church uterie of discourse.

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Speaker 1: Indeed, shall we make a quick break and then come

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Speaker 1: back for the recap. Let's do that, Okay, and we're back.

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Speaker 3: We're back. It's still Caitlin's birthday and we are mister

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Speaker 3: and missus Smith. Can I just say before we even start,

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Speaker 3: how I've never like because I didn't outside of Brad

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Speaker 3: Pitt and Angelina Joliet, had no idea who is in

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Speaker 3: this movie. I haven't experienced this in a long time,

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Speaker 3: But when Vince Vaughn came on the screen, I experienced

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Speaker 3: a full body shutter. And I don't even like hate him,

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Speaker 3: but I just like, for whatever headspace I was in

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Speaker 3: when I was watching this yesterday, I was like, not today, No,

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Speaker 3: I can't do Vince Vaughan today. And of course he's

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Speaker 3: the worst character.

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Speaker 1: In the movie, Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 3: And you're like, why is he here? And then you

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Speaker 3: do a little research and you're like, well, it's the

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Speaker 3: same director as Swingers. That's why he's here.

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Speaker 1: Yes, that is why he's here. And he's playing a

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Speaker 1: character that was his like bread and butter during this time,

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Speaker 1: and also in Swingers era.

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Speaker 3: Misogynists, Piece of Shit, Loser.

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Speaker 1: Wedding Crashers, he plays basically the same character. Oh really Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's just like spewing hatred toward women in every line

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Speaker 1: of dialogue, and that is his character.

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Speaker 3: Also on top of that, it seems like, I don't know,

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Speaker 3: I feel like you see misogynist characters who are meant

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Speaker 3: to look very like smooth, and then you see misogynist

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Speaker 3: characters and I'm just talking about this era of movies

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Speaker 3: who it's clear that they're being hateful out of rejection.

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Speaker 3: I don't like to see either. But right you know,

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Speaker 3: the very like he lives with his mom, which are like,

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Speaker 3: it's just all so lazily written.

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Speaker 1: And I feel like this movie falls somewhere in the

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Speaker 1: middle because we're not supposed to be like, Wow, he's

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Speaker 1: awesome and hilarious, but we're also like, he's still an

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Speaker 1: ally to the characters we're meant to be rooting for,

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Speaker 1: and no one ever calls him out on his behavior.

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Speaker 1: So it's just sort of presented uncritically and where I

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Speaker 1: think meant to laugh along at what he's saying.

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Speaker 3: I think in two thousand and five seems likely. I

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Speaker 3: don't know. I haven't seen wedding crashers, and I'm God

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Speaker 3: willing I'll never have to. If you're a mad trend,

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Speaker 3: and I hope you are, please never vote for wedding crashers.

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Speaker 3: But it's on the poll. I never want to watch it.

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Speaker 3: If I can get through my whole life with never

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Speaker 3: seeing wedding crashers, that'll be all right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree.

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Speaker 3: Anyways, mister and Missus Smith, what happens to this damn movie?

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Speaker 1: So we open on a couple's counseling session where we

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Speaker 1: meet a married couple mister and Missus Smith, that's the

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Speaker 1: name of them, who are John and Jane played by

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Speaker 1: Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie. And we see them talking

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Speaker 1: to the therapist and they are not on the same

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Speaker 1: page maritally, and they then start to tell the story

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Speaker 1: of how they met. So five or six years ago,

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Speaker 1: they were both in Columbia during a flurry of police activity,

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Speaker 1: so they kind of come together to keep each other

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Speaker 1: safe and they hit it off and have a whirlwind romance.

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Speaker 1: A few weeks past, John is talking to his friend

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Speaker 1: slash colleague Eddie that's Vince Vaughn, saying how he proposed

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Speaker 1: to Jane. They're getting married. Meanwhile, Jane is talking to

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Speaker 1: her friend Jasmine played by Carrie Washington, who is too

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Speaker 1: good for this movie.

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Speaker 3: Kerry Washington is too good for so many of her

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Speaker 3: early roles. I just hope that this is the kind

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Speaker 3: of movie where you look at the budget and you're like,

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Speaker 3: I certainly hope she got a good paycheck.

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Speaker 1: I hope, but I also doubt.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean I also have such doubts.

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Speaker 1: We have such doubts, much like Meryl, Much like Merrill.

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Speaker 3: I have such doubts.

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Speaker 1: Yes, So they are talking about John aka they're not

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Speaker 1: passing the Bechdel test, and Jane thinks that John is

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Speaker 1: a construction contractor. John thinks Jane works in tech. What

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Speaker 1: they don't know is that actually they're both assassins.

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Speaker 3: WHOA. Yeah, I mean so much of this movie plays

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Speaker 3: on I think very tropey views of what hetero marriage is,

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Speaker 3: which is you secretly hate each other, uh huh. But

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Speaker 3: also like this movie just takes it to such a

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Speaker 3: far flung extent where I'm just like, oh my god,

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Speaker 3: what is this writer's marriage. Like, we're like, obviously it's

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Speaker 3: not autobiographical, because then he would be cool. But the

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Speaker 3: fact that they're like they don't even know really what

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Speaker 3: each other does, I don't know, it's funny. It's weird, right.

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Speaker 1: So I have a little bit of information on this, pulling,

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Speaker 1: of course, from scholarly journal Wikipedia once again hit me.

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Speaker 1: The movie was written by Simon Kinberg.

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Speaker 3: Who's written I think some of the most hated X

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Speaker 3: Men movies.

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Speaker 1: Also, oh, I didn't even realize that.

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Speaker 3: Throughout Dark Phoenix, I believe or produce Dark Phoenix.

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Speaker 1: Ooof well, he wrote and sold the script while he

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Speaker 1: was a grad student, and he had the idea for

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Speaker 1: the movie after listening to a couple of his friends

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Speaker 1: who went to marriage therapy, and he thought that it

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Speaker 1: sounded aggressive and mercenary, and he's like, hmm, this would

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Speaker 1: make an interesting template for a relationship inside of an

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Speaker 1: action movie. So he just like took his friend's marital

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Speaker 1: problems and then put that in an action movie.

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Speaker 3: Question mark, So I mean, I don't hate that, Like

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Speaker 3: I get what he's saying, but also I don't know,

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Speaker 3: it's weird. I sort of thought that, like, the therapy

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Speaker 3: was presented less hatefully than therapy often is in movies

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Speaker 3: of this era, So it's interesting to think that he

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Speaker 3: actually didn't feel that way. Well, who knows, but it

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Speaker 3: didn't read to be as like outwardly like I thought.

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Speaker 3: It was like a fun framing device that makes it

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Speaker 3: clear that he's a piece of shit, which I know

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Speaker 3: the movie isn't really capable of showing, but I had

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Speaker 3: no issue with the actual framing device.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it works for me. So then we cut

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Speaker 1: to five or six years later, and again their marriage

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Speaker 1: is rocky and unaffectionate. They are not open with each other.

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Speaker 1: They still don't know what the other one actually does

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Speaker 1: for a living. Then we see Jane leave one evening

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Speaker 1: on an assignment. She goes to see an arms dealer

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Speaker 1: pretending to be a dominatrix, then kills him. Meanwhile, John

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Speaker 1: assassinates a few guys at a poker game. They both

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Speaker 1: make swift escapes, and they reconvene at their suburban neighbors

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Speaker 1: holiday party, and we're like, Wow, what a contrast between

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Speaker 1: their sexy lives as assassins and suburban life.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of these coming out. I was thinking

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Speaker 3: about the bad sorry frank Oz, but the bad Stepford

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Speaker 3: Wives adaptation that came out like the year before or

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Speaker 3: after this. Like there's a lot of oh yeah, weird attempts.

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Speaker 3: I feel like, with like summery blockbusters to comment on

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Speaker 3: suburban life. And I'm sure there was a good one.

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Speaker 3: I don't know that I've seen it. Anyways, this is

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Speaker 3: another one where you're just like, sure, they're not like

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Speaker 3: other suburbanites, but like, that doesn't mean that we like that.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Well, Stepford Wives was the reason that Nicole Kidman, who

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Speaker 1: was originally considered for Jane Smith oh right, yes, couldn't

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Speaker 1: do the movie because she was too busy filming Stepford Wives.

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Speaker 3: Wow. Well, I guess this movie was technically more successful.

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Speaker 3: But I mean, I feel like there would be a

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Speaker 3: rift in the space time continuum if this movie's casting

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Speaker 3: went differently.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh my gosh, yeah, because I mean, I mean,

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Speaker 1: you would probably never have the Branjelina of it all.

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Speaker 3: Which might be for the best for all parties, but

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Speaker 3: also like, yeah, if the casting for this movie's leads

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Speaker 3: went different, America, as we know it would crumble, like

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Speaker 3: what would people have talked about?

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Speaker 1: True? In any case, So John and Jane then both

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Speaker 1: head off to work at their respective assassin offices, and

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Speaker 1: they both get the same assignment to kill Benjamin Dance

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Speaker 1: played by Adam Brody, who we've already seen receive an

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Speaker 1: assignment of his own, although we don't know what it is.

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Speaker 5: See.

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Speaker 3: That was my pleasant jump scare was Adam Brodie's appearance

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Speaker 3: in this movie had.

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Speaker 1: No idea good for him, good for him for.

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Speaker 3: A second when I think you first see him from

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Speaker 3: the back, and I was like, if that is justin Bartha,

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna lose it. But regrettably it was not just.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I'm happy either way. I'm happy either way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Now it's Adam Brody, and he's also being a

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Speaker 1: misogynist because he's like ordering a woman to bring him

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Speaker 1: a cup of coffee and that's not her job and

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Speaker 1: he sucks.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. And if there's one thing Adam Brody's gonna do

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Speaker 3: and he's typecast, it's be a piece of shit.

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Speaker 1: True.

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Speaker 3: I was like, Wow, it's really been twenty years of

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Speaker 3: Adam Brody being type cast as a piece of shit.

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Speaker 1: I wonder what He's like, in real life, we're seeing

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Speaker 1: a pattern, aren't we of male actors being type cast

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Speaker 1: as misogynists? Hmm, wonder what's up with that?

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Speaker 3: But the twist is, in this movie, we're supposed to

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Speaker 3: be rooting for at least one of them. Yeah, we're

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Speaker 3: supposed to be laughing, laughing, laughing. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, So John and Jane separately go to a location

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Speaker 1: in the desert near the US Mexico border where they

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Speaker 1: know Benjamin is going to be, and they're planning their attack,

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Speaker 1: and then they both realize another assassin is there, and

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Speaker 1: they try to sabotage the other one because they don't

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Speaker 1: realize it's their spouse whoa Neither are successful in their

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Speaker 1: mission to kill Adam Brody. Jane flees the scene. Great, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think I just started calling him Adam Brody like

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Speaker 1: from this point on.

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Speaker 3: I mean, what the hell are we supposed to call?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, Benjamin, you're right now, get a grip.

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Speaker 1: So Jane flees the scene and John takes her laptop

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Speaker 1: to try to figure out who that was. Meanwhile, Jane

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Speaker 1: is at Lady Assassin Headquarters Industries because everyone she works

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Speaker 1: with is a woman whoa feminism alert.

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Speaker 3: I mean it's a fun idea. It's a fun idea.

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Speaker 1: Although her boss, who they call Father played by Keith David,

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Speaker 1: is I think the only man and he's like, you

394
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Speaker 1: have forty eight hours to clean the scene, aka find

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Speaker 1: the other guy and kill him, or else she will

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Speaker 1: become the next target. So we cut back to John,

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Speaker 1: who finds out an address for the left and goes

398
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Speaker 1: there discovers that it's the office of his wife wa Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: Jane is looking at footage of the other Assassin in

400
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Speaker 1: the desert and she realizes it's her husband. So they

401
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Speaker 1: both go home, pretending like everything is normal, but dinner

402
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 1: is very tense, and then some wine gets spilled and

403
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Speaker 1: they both leave under the pretense of they're going to

404
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Speaker 1: clean it up, but actually John grabs a gun, Jane

405
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Speaker 1: speeds off in the car and they part ways. So

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Speaker 1: then John goes to Vince Vaughn's.

407
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Speaker 3: House mistake number one.

408
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Speaker 1: Seriously, Jane goes to Lady Assassin headquarters and talks to

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Speaker 1: Kerry Washington. Both John and Jane are relaying that their

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Speaker 1: spouse is the other assassin and that they have to

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Speaker 1: kill them. Although they seem to be contemplating whether or

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Speaker 1: not they can go through with it. The idea is

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Speaker 1: they claim to not love each other, but you can

414
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Speaker 1: see that they seem to actually have feelings for each

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Speaker 1: other that they're not willing to admit. So John goes

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Speaker 1: to Jane's office to try to kill her, although he

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Speaker 1: can't go through with it, and she escapes. Then he

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Speaker 1: goes to her backup.

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Speaker 3: Office question mark, I don't.

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Speaker 1: I was also confused, And then she explodes the elevator

421
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Speaker 1: that he's in, except she didn't really mean to, and

422
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Speaker 1: now she's sad, and she goes to a fancy dinner

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Speaker 1: by herself and she's having a little tear falling down

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Speaker 1: her face. But surprise, John shows up because he was

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Speaker 1: in a different elevator I guess.

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Speaker 3: And I also was like the writing on that was

427
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Speaker 3: also so confusing. I was like, how did he get?

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Speaker 3: I also did. My favorite character in the movie is

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Speaker 3: the person that Angelina Jolly works with who kills Brad Pitton,

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Speaker 3: and then Angelina Jolly is like, wait, what which First

431
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Speaker 3: of all, you have to brief the room if you're bluffing. Yes,

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00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,359
Speaker 3: So another example of just both of these assassins are

433
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 3: not very good at being assassins. I don't know why

434
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:31,959
Speaker 3: they're so high up in assassining. Assassinating.

435
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I think the first one was good.

436
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 3: But just that there's like an unnamed character who's like,

437
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 3: what you said, you said goodbye? Yeah, it's like good

438
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 3: for her, she's good at her job. Promote her, right.

439
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 1: So anyway, John shows up to this dinner and they're

440
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 1: sitting together, guns pointed at each other, trying to figure

441
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 1: out how to proceed. They dance a violent but also

442
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 1: jornie tango, but then she tries to kill him again

443
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 1: by planting a bomb on him. Oops, and she escapes

444
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 1: and he takes the bomb off or whatever. They both

445
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 1: race home, but they're talking to each other on the

446
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 1: phone on the way, and John is trying to be sentimental.

447
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 1: It's clear that there are feelings between them, but they're

448
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 1: not really willing to fully admit it. They get home,

449
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 1: they're sneaking around, they're gathering weapons, and then there's a

450
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 1: big shootout. Then it turns into hand to hand combat,

451
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,120
Speaker 1: but in so doing they realize that they can't kill

452
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: each other. And then suddenly they're making out and then

453
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 1: they have sex, and the passion is reignited. In their

454
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 1: relationship and for the first time, they're honest with each

455
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 1: other about their lives and their pasts, and they're telling

456
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 1: each other all of this stuff about who they really are.

457
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,719
Speaker 1: But oh no, now there's a hit out for both

458
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 1: John and Jane and Vince Fawn gets notification to kill them,

459
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:18,439
Speaker 1: and other assassins come after them also, So Jane and

460
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 1: John steal their neighbor's car and escape. There's a whole

461
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:26,120
Speaker 1: car chase. They kill the people chasing them. Then they

462
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 1: go to see Vince Vaughn to get some intel on

463
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: who's after them and how many people, and he's like, basically,

464
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 1: everyone from both of your agencies are going to try

465
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: to kill you. If you separate, you have a shot,

466
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 1: but if you stay together, you're dead unless you can

467
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 1: find something that they want more than you. So John

468
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 1: and Jane kidnap the original target, Adam Brody, and he

469
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 1: reveals he was never actually the target that they were

470
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: because they're agencies found out that they were married, so

471
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 1: they set up a sting to get them to kill

472
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 1: each other, and Adam Brody was just the bait.

473
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 3: It's the classic I'm just an intern, I'm just a

474
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 3: little stinker and sure.

475
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he was the bait and he still is.

476
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 1: The flock of assassins are approaching, so John and Jane

477
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 1: do contemplate splitting up and going their separate ways, but

478
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: they decide to stay together and fight, and they end

479
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,479
Speaker 1: up in this like big box store for home goods

480
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 1: or something. It's like an Ikea.

481
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 3: Again, some attempt to like be better than the mall

482
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 3: or whatever. They're like, we're built different, screw the mall.

483
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 3: You're like, sure, whatever.

484
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: So they're in this store and assassins surround them, but

485
00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 1: mister and missus Smith take out all of the enemies

486
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 1: and they win, and we cut back to them a

487
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,719
Speaker 1: couple's therapy. Their marriage is in a better place because

488
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 1: now they're honest with each other and they fuck all

489
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: of the time.

490
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 5: The end.

491
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:21,239
Speaker 1: Oh, that's the movie. Let's take another quick break and

492
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 1: we'll come back to discuss. Yay, we're back.

493
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,719
Speaker 3: Okay, where should we begin.

494
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 1: I kind of want to briefly go through the various

495
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: other renditions of this narrative. Yeah, because there are a few. Yeah,

496
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,479
Speaker 1: they're kind of relevant. I suppose I was more just

497
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 1: sort of interested in them. So there's a Hitchcock movie

498
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 1: from nineteen four forty one, a rare Hitchcock comedy. Fun fact,

499
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 1: I watched this movie back in probably like two thousand

500
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: and seven or something because I was like, I like

501
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 1: mister and missus Smith from two thousand and five, I

502
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: wonder what the Hitchcock one is like, and it basically

503
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with really. So the story is

504
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:28,719
Speaker 1: that there's a married couple where the woman finds out

505
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: that their marriage was never actually valid, and so they

506
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 1: have various arguments and eventually split up and she starts

507
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: dating another man, but her husband, David keeps following her,

508
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 1: just stalking her, and she keeps being like, no, I

509
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: don't want to get back together with you, and he's like, well,

510
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 1: what about if we do? And that's basically the story.

511
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 1: And then they realize that actually they are meant for

512
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 1: each other, and then they kiss at the end, and

513
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 1: I guess they get back together. So it's about like

514
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: a marriage that isn't valid and then they have to

515
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: decide if they want to actually be together as a

516
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 1: married couple or not.

517
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 3: So very little to do, Okay, a lot of logistics

518
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 3: in there.

519
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 1: Yes, I thought the movie was pretty bad. I didn't

520
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,479
Speaker 1: enjoy it at all when I watched it, and so

521
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: great that is that version. Apparently, there is an American

522
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: crime drama TV series that aired for like two months

523
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety six before it got canceled, oh, called

524
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 1: Mister and Missus Smith. It stars Scott Bacula and Maria Below. Okay, minion, Oh, okay.

525
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 3: First, that better be how she pronounces it, Maria below, Bello,

526
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 3: That one I didn't come across. I mean I came

527
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 3: across the original, but we interesting.

528
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 1: So the premise for this one, and I think it again,

529
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 1: only aired for like a dozen or so episodes, But

530
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 1: the premise is a spy known only as mister Smith.

531
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 1: That's Scott Bakula works for a private security organization known

532
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 1: as the Factory, and in the pilot a rival named

533
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: Missus Smith Maria below it comes entangled in a case

534
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: with mister Smith, and then after losing her job when

535
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 1: the mission fails, the Factory hires her and assigns them

536
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 1: to work together. And even though they often bicker and

537
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 1: they know nothing about each other's personal lives, including their

538
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: real names, they make a good team. So this one's closer.

539
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 3: Right, inching toward what we have?

540
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then as I said, I watched the pilot

541
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 1: of the twenty twenty four TV series starring Donald Glover

542
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 1: and Maya Erskin, where two strangers independently agree to become

543
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:10,240
Speaker 1: secret agents for a mysterious organization undercover as a married couple.

544
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 1: So in this series, they know that the other one

545
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 1: is a spy from the very beginning. It's just that

546
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 1: the marriage is a sham. They are not actually married.

547
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: I don't know how the rest of the episodes pan out,

548
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 1: but I do know that they like start to get

549
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 1: to know each other a little bit better. I don't

550
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 1: know if a romance develops or not. I didn't watch

551
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: that far into it.

552
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 3: I've heard good things about it. I think it's probably

553
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 3: worth watching, but this is famously not a TV or

554
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:42,359
Speaker 3: reading podcast, and so we simply can't speak to it.

555
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,240
Speaker 3: I feel like I missed the media cycle for that series,

556
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 3: and I am kind of intrigued. I think I will

557
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 3: watch it.

558
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:52,839
Speaker 1: I liked the first episode. I would keep going, and.

559
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 3: I guess time will sort of tell. With the most

560
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 3: recent adaptation, I feel like, at least at the time

561
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 3: of this recording, this render of Mister and Missus Smith

562
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 3: is the best known yes because it was a really

563
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 3: really really successful movie, like kind of more successful than

564
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 3: I remembered. It almost made half a billion dollars twenty

565
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 3: years ago, which is just I guess everybody saw this

566
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:20,359
Speaker 3: movie except for me. Like pretty wild, pretty impressive and

567
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 3: one of the kind of I think broiest creative teams

568
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 3: I've come across in a movie we've covered in a while.

569
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 3: And that's sort of saying something. We've got the director

570
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 3: of Swingers and Bourne Identity One, We've got the writer of.

571
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 3: Actually I did like this movie, but it is I

572
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 3: think bro Cannon guy Ritchie Sherlock Holmes.

573
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 1: Oh, I also like the movie.

574
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 3: He directed what I think is considered the worst X

575
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,359
Speaker 3: Men movie of all time. You know, he's just kind

576
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 3: of slaying no. But it just took a really interesting

577
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 3: Broie Missus Smith never stood a chance, is what I'm saying. Yeah,

578
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 3: in terms of there being any sort of nuance there,

579
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 3: I kind of want to talk about the characters first

580
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,479
Speaker 3: and then get into the media thing because I feel

581
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 3: like that's just like almost a whole other podcast. So

582
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 3: I don't want to forget to talk about the characters. Yeah, Kiten,

583
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 3: what do you what do you think that mister and

584
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 3: missus Smith. I don't care for them, and I really

585
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 3: don't care for mister Smith. I fucking hate the guy.

586
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, he is awful.

587
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 3: To me.

588
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:38,399
Speaker 1: What I was getting was like mister Smith, I mean,

589
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:40,760
Speaker 1: I think he's way worse at his job. I think

590
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 1: that Jane is a more competent spy and you know,

591
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 1: a woman in an action movie. I appreciate that she

592
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 1: is the better one at her job, and that's a

593
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 1: job that in I'm sure real life and in movies

594
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 1: is commonly associated with a man doing that job. So

595
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 1: I appreciated that she was at least shown as being

596
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:08,839
Speaker 1: competent at her job.

597
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:09,280
Speaker 3: Yeah.

598
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,839
Speaker 1: However, I think that as far as characterization goes, like

599
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 1: what even is her personality? I feel like she's so underwritten.

600
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,720
Speaker 3: I feel like that for every woman we see, really

601
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 3: because I think it's like even more intensely contrasted between

602
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:26,320
Speaker 3: Kerrie Washington and Vince Vaughn where they're playing for sure,

603
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 3: mister and missus Smith's respective best friends. And you can

604
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:34,840
Speaker 3: just tell that the writer, I mean, Simon Kimberg very well,

605
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 3: maybe a nice guy, but I don't think he has

606
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 3: any grip on what women would say to each other

607
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 3: if left in a room, and it felt clear every

608
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:49,279
Speaker 3: time that happened, which was almost.

609
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 1: Never, it was not very much. But even if she's

610
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 1: interacting with her husband, I feel like she just like

611
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 1: is a blah nothing like there's no personality there. At

612
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 1: least John gets.

613
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 3: Jokes, Yeah, John and Vaughn.

614
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,919
Speaker 1: John and Vaughn. Whether or not you laugh at them

615
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 1: is kind of beside the point. But they're written in

616
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,360
Speaker 1: such a way that you know they're the funny ones.

617
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:23,359
Speaker 1: They get the jokes. And meanwhile, Jane is humorless and

618
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 1: she isn't generating any of the comedy in this action

619
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 1: comedy aside from maybe one or two punchlines that they

620
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:34,799
Speaker 1: give her, but generally speaking, like she's sort of a

621
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 1: nothing character, no personality, She's humorless. Meanwhile, the men get

622
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 1: to have fun. We were talking about this a lot

623
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 1: on the Knocked Up episode, where the men are written

624
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 1: to be funny and goofy and the women are like

625
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,800
Speaker 1: humorless shrews, and I found that to be the case

626
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 1: for this movie as well.

627
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 3: I didn't find them to be I guess as like

628
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 3: shrewy in this movie as they certainly as they are

629
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 3: in like jud Apatow movies of the same era, I

630
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:13,399
Speaker 3: guess I more found them to just be nothing right,

631
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 3: like nothing, which is really frustrated because you consider, like

632
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 3: Angelaine and jo Lee had an oscar like why didn't

633
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 3: you write her a part? Which I know happens to

634
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:30,400
Speaker 3: successful actresses in particular all the time, but it's just like,

635
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 3: come on, yeah, and I think that you know, she

636
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 3: and Carrie Washington do everything with what they're given, but

637
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 3: they're not given very much. And I think that the

638
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:41,839
Speaker 3: best moments for Angelina and Jolie, I feel like there's

639
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 3: references to her. I guess what her persona would have

640
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 3: been at the time, where like she's like this famous,

641
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:53,400
Speaker 3: gorgeous woman with a history of like publicly being into kink,

642
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 3: so I feel like there are like references to that

643
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 3: throughout the day. It's like fun, I don't know, I mean,

644
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 3: and this happened all the time still, but like you've

645
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 3: been given this tremendously talented actor and she's just traded

646
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 3: like a body right and totally, which I feel like

647
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:15,279
Speaker 3: early on in us doing this show, I like, I

648
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 3: feel like I had kind of like an undercooked like

649
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 3: she's being objectified and like, which is very, very often true,

650
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 3: and I think is often true in this movie. But

651
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 3: isn't an inherently bad thing to be sexy in a movie?

652
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 3: Like that's yeah, technically right. Part of the appeal of

653
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 3: this movie is two hot people fighting. Fine, great, Like

654
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:39,319
Speaker 3: I'm seated for that, but it's just you also have

655
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 3: to be able to like do other things, or it

656
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 3: starts to feel like, well, you're just a body if

657
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,439
Speaker 3: you're not given any sort of like if you don't

658
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 3: have a character, right, and so yeah, like Brad Pitt

659
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,239
Speaker 3: is hot with a character, and Angelina Jilly is hot

660
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 3: without a character, and so you're just like, well, yeah,

661
00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 3: that's they did the thing.

662
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 1: That's men writing a movie for you. I am speculating here,

663
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 1: but it feels so much to me as I watched

664
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 1: this movie that the direction that director Doug Lyman was

665
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 1: giving to Angelina Jolie and every scene was be sexier,

666
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: flutter your eyelashes, do something with your posture.

667
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 5: Do you know?

668
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:27,440
Speaker 1: It was like the note was always like be sexier,

669
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 1: as if like that's a replacement for having a personality,

670
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 1: because that's what you're seeing in every scene. It's him

671
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 1: being funny, cracking a joke, being goofy whatever, and then

672
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 1: her just sort of like pursing her lips or fluttering

673
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:47,479
Speaker 1: her eyelashes or something like.

674
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 3: That, which it's like she's great at for sure, but

675
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 3: also she has a fucking oscar. Like I think that

676
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:56,840
Speaker 3: you see a lot of the same stuff like we

677
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,879
Speaker 3: talked about truly, like probably over seven years ago now

678
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:03,319
Speaker 3: the turmb Raider movies, where I think that she is

679
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 3: objectively less objectified in this movie than she is in

680
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 3: the turmb Raider movies. But that is not really a

681
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 3: yardstick that anyone should have to use. Yeah, So, I

682
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 3: mean it just feels like a classic example of especially

683
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 3: because while Brad Pitt is a piece of shit domestic abuser,

684
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 3: he's a good actor. Right, So you have two famously

685
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:35,440
Speaker 3: talented actors at this time, the more decorated actor is

686
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 3: being given absolutely nothing, and you know, no one really

687
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 3: said much about it. And while this movie's coming out,

688
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:49,720
Speaker 3: Angelina Jolie specifically is getting pummeled in the media, and.

689
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 1: So it's just almost like society hates women.

690
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:59,839
Speaker 3: What it's misogyny and soost like everyone hates women. You know,

691
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,439
Speaker 3: the show is about very obvious in this movie, this movie,

692
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:06,320
Speaker 3: I mean if nothing else. It just feels like lazy

693
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:10,800
Speaker 3: and it's characterization of women. It's just like neither director

694
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 3: nor writer talked to any women that they knew to

695
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 3: see this. I mean, I feel like that's also reflected

696
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 3: in how lazy the uh attempted, like Upper Crest suburban

697
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:27,440
Speaker 3: commentary is in this movie where you know, Frank Oztepford

698
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 3: Wives isn't great, but it's at least specific in like

699
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:34,439
Speaker 3: what it's trying to do. It doesn't do a great job,

700
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,880
Speaker 3: but you can see the attempt. But it's just like

701
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:41,760
Speaker 3: men be doing business, women be holding babies and wearing

702
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 3: ugly sweaters, and you're like, certainly like the rich upstate

703
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:51,359
Speaker 3: New York white upper class like fair game, but like

704
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:56,320
Speaker 3: it's not saying anything. I don't know, it was just bizarre.

705
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 3: I think one positive thing or maybe just one thing,

706
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 3: let's let's see, let's see this that I was surprised.

707
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 3: I guess that this wasn't present because I feel like,

708
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 3: you know, like there are a couple in their thirties

709
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 3: and their homeowners and blah blah blah, there is not

710
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 3: any baby storyline between the two of them. I was

711
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:19,839
Speaker 3: sort of expecting that just because of what I am

712
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 3: trained to expect from movies about heterosexual couples that are

713
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:28,360
Speaker 3: thirty or over. And there is like one scene where

714
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 3: like missus Smith is holding a baby and she's sort

715
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 3: of like I liked that, and I liked that it

716
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:37,359
Speaker 3: never came back and you were just like, Okay, they

717
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:40,359
Speaker 3: don't want kids, and I think that, given the fact

718
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 3: that their assassins and bad at it, that's probably for

719
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 3: the best. But that's like, yeah, one of the only

720
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 3: nice things I can say about this movie is I

721
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:52,720
Speaker 3: kept expecting that to become a thing and it never did. However,

722
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 3: so many of the one liners, because like you're saying,

723
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 3: like he is supposed to be funny, and maybe in

724
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 3: two thousand five people, I mean people seem to be

725
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 3: laughing to the tune of half a billion dollars.

726
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:05,359
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, but.

727
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 3: Like any like little comment, any quip that he'd throw

728
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 3: to her would be like I don't like your cooking,

729
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 3: I don't like you. Like they're also his wife codd

730
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 3: in a way that like it was annoying because it

731
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 3: was sexist and annoying, but it was also annoying because

732
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 3: it just was like bad writing, where like he's talking

733
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:34,320
Speaker 3: to her, like the quality of her cooking was something

734
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 3: that we know is very important to her, when we

735
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 3: have no real reason to believe that that's true. Like

736
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:43,919
Speaker 3: it just seems like again like the writers being like, well,

737
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 3: what would hurt a woman's feelings? And I don't know,

738
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 3: it's just so lazy and felt like dated for two

739
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 3: thousand and five, like it just sucked.

740
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:54,799
Speaker 1: Yes, and he's just mean to her.

741
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 3: He's just mean to her, and then he's slutshames her

742
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:59,280
Speaker 3: at the end, you know, just anything you could possibly

743
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 3: imagine that you wouldn't want. It's kind of the murderer's row.

744
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 1: Yes, there's all these examples of him. He like comments

745
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:12,799
Speaker 1: on our cooking three times, like why, and then it's

746
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 1: revealed that like she doesn't cook, like the women at

747
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 1: Lady Assassin Headquarters cook for her or something. But you

748
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 1: also like see her preparing food. So I'm like, but

749
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:26,320
Speaker 1: we are seeing her I don't know anyway.

750
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:31,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, so like more bad writing and like inconsistent writing,

751
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:36,240
Speaker 3: but also just like counting on your assumption that any

752
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:41,239
Speaker 3: woman would be so hurt if her husband didn't like

753
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:42,919
Speaker 3: her cooking, and you're just like.

754
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:46,279
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, at least she's like I don't care what

755
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 1: you think about my cooking. Stopped talking about it. Right,

756
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 1: There are a few things that I don't hate, and

757
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,719
Speaker 1: I think are probably why I connected to this movie

758
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:01,439
Speaker 1: as much as I did in two thousand five. One

759
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 1: of them is her participation in the action where and

760
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 1: we've had this conversation many times at this point as

761
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 1: far as like, if a woman is allowed to be

762
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 1: in an action movie, is she allowed to fight? And

763
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 1: if so, what does that look like? And in this case,

764
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 1: again we see her being competent at her job. She

765
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:26,879
Speaker 1: gets to do stuff. She's doing action movie things. She's

766
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,279
Speaker 1: shooting guns, she's driving in the chase scene.

767
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 3: She's allowed to fight her husband.

768
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that's an almost like separate conversation as far

769
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 1: as like men and women can they fight each other?

770
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 1: But before I kind of dive more into that, there's

771
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:45,440
Speaker 1: just like things that she's allowed to do that often

772
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:49,480
Speaker 1: aren't afforded to women in action movies. You know, there's

773
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 1: a scene during that chase scene where they're in the minivan.

774
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:57,320
Speaker 1: John isn't able to take out the last two cars

775
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:00,920
Speaker 1: chasing them, and so she takes charge and she's the

776
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 1: one to take out those cars, and there might be

777
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:09,240
Speaker 1: some like possibly gendered things attached to this, But she's

778
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:14,879
Speaker 1: the more sort of like meticulous planner assassin. That's her

779
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:18,839
Speaker 1: approach to her job, whereas John is the more like,

780
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:22,480
Speaker 1: oh I'll improvise. Oh I'm just gonna wing it. And

781
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 1: then that manifests and.

782
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 3: He is very often wrong.

783
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 1: He's often wrong, and she's usually right. But when she

784
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 1: calls him out for it, I feel like the movie

785
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:38,279
Speaker 1: is framing those moments as like she's nagging him and

786
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 1: he got the job done, so what's the big deal.

787
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:43,839
Speaker 1: So I was feeling notes of that.

788
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 3: I kept going back and forth on that, yeah, because

789
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 3: it's like, I think that you can read it both ways,

790
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:50,400
Speaker 3: but I just don't see any reason to give a

791
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 3: generous read to this rider or director, right right.

792
00:48:55,480 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 1: So I appreciate her involvement in the action. It's something

793
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 1: that a lot of action movies before and since this

794
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:12,319
Speaker 1: movie wouldn't afford even like a lady assassin to be

795
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:16,400
Speaker 1: as involved in the action as she is. And then

796
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 1: like we were saying, yes, she and a man are

797
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 1: fighting each other, and this is another discussion we've had

798
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 1: many times, I think, most recently on maybe the John

799
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:32,360
Speaker 1: Wick episode. But it's always been like, should we see

800
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:36,880
Speaker 1: a man punching a woman in a movie? Can a

801
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:39,879
Speaker 1: woman and a man fight each other? And I think

802
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:44,319
Speaker 1: our conversation has evolved over the years, but at least

803
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:48,439
Speaker 1: in this context, when they are both trained assassins and

804
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 1: their mission is to kill each other, it stands to

805
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:55,799
Speaker 1: reason that they would be fighting, and the movie doesn't

806
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:58,160
Speaker 1: shy away from that. Again, it shows her just as

807
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:03,320
Speaker 1: competent of a fighter ye as him and their equals

808
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:09,400
Speaker 1: as far as like hand to hand combat and gun stuff.

809
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:12,879
Speaker 3: So and gun no, I agree with you. I think

810
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:16,040
Speaker 3: that that's something that, like, I wonder, I meant to

811
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:18,840
Speaker 3: look more into this because I feel like for years

812
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 3: and years, whenever men and women would fight on screen,

813
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:25,319
Speaker 3: it would launch a bunch of op eds about like

814
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 3: should this have happened? I will say for this one,

815
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:32,279
Speaker 3: and I'm wondering. I think that maybe it also has

816
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:36,400
Speaker 3: to do with how much I was reading about Brad

817
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 3: Pitt and Angelina Jolie's relationship. It's only in one sequence,

818
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 3: but let me know what you think. It was bothering me,

819
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:46,759
Speaker 3: and it could be a personal thing. But in the

820
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:49,920
Speaker 3: scene where they're fighting in their house, I get it

821
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:53,719
Speaker 3: like their assassins. I do feel like there's like erotic fighting,

822
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:57,719
Speaker 3: there's wish fulfillment stuff. It's blah blah blah. They're basically

823
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:02,000
Speaker 3: b dsming each other with any consent rules because it's

824
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:05,400
Speaker 3: blah blah blah. Yah, I get it. I do feel

825
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:08,880
Speaker 3: as if though, that like all of her moves or

826
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 3: the majority of her moves to me, looked like fight moves,

827
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:18,440
Speaker 3: looked like martial arts right training, and I felt like

828
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:22,319
Speaker 3: his moves often looked more just like domestic abuse and

829
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:25,879
Speaker 3: shoving her against a wall and just throwing her over

830
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 3: a table, and like, I don't know, it bugged me, Yeah,

831
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:32,280
Speaker 3: the fight choreography, like he did do martial arts stuff,

832
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 3: and she didn't break shit over his head. So maybe

833
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 3: I was reading into it a little too hard, but

834
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:39,359
Speaker 3: there were like several things, especially because it's Brad Pitt

835
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:41,719
Speaker 3: and we know he's a domestic abuser, right like that,

836
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:45,759
Speaker 3: just like I don't know, Yeah, But then in any

837
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:48,279
Speaker 3: other fight sequence they're in together, it's just that long

838
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:51,239
Speaker 3: fight sequence where they're fighting each other where it just

839
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 3: felt like she was almost always doing clear martial arts stuff.

840
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:59,440
Speaker 3: I felt like he was like half and half he

841
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:04,319
Speaker 3: was very often just pushing her. I didn't like that

842
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:05,960
Speaker 3: fight sequence very much.

843
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 1: That didn't ping for me because I didn't super notice it.

844
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:14,640
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it didn't happen. I would just have

845
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:18,319
Speaker 1: to like rewatch and look more closely at that. But

846
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:23,279
Speaker 1: I'd imagine it's because of the whole Oh, he's the

847
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 1: fly by the seat of his pants assassin and she's

848
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:31,840
Speaker 1: the meticulous one, and so maybe that also manifested in

849
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:36,280
Speaker 1: the fight choreography. But then if you're a filmmaker making

850
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:39,360
Speaker 1: that choice for the characters and for the actors, you

851
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 1: have to understand the implications of what that actually looks

852
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:46,239
Speaker 1: like and like, what are the optics of a man

853
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:47,759
Speaker 1: fighting that way?

854
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:50,719
Speaker 3: I know, I felt like I was writing the op

855
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:53,000
Speaker 3: ed into that as the time I'm I think, but

856
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 3: because I do think it is like if they didn't

857
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:59,240
Speaker 3: they have to fight each other, like, it's also besogae

858
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 3: if they if they don't let her fight, like that's ridiculous.

859
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 3: It was just the way there was just like a

860
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:08,320
Speaker 3: few choices that just felt yeah, I mean not even

861
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:12,360
Speaker 3: necessarily unrealistic if you're fighting somewhat, but like, I just

862
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:15,359
Speaker 3: didn't like it. I didn't like it fair, I don't

863
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 3: like this spuffee. Let's see what else I will say.

864
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:25,720
Speaker 1: The one other thing that I appreciate on this watch,

865
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 1: although it's perhaps open to interpretation, but I thought it

866
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:36,480
Speaker 1: was interesting that of the two of them, the man

867
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:40,200
Speaker 1: seems to be the more sentimental one, or at least

868
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:43,640
Speaker 1: someone who's more willing to express his feelings. Because there

869
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:46,720
Speaker 1: are different scenes, such as when they're doing the tango

870
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 1: in the restaurant or when they're on the phone with

871
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 1: each other as they're both driving back home. He's sort

872
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:59,400
Speaker 1: of like probing to see if she does have feelings

873
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 1: for him, and he's being a bit more open about

874
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 1: how he does have feelings for her, and he says

875
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:12,560
Speaker 1: something like I thought you looked like Christmas morning, right,

876
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:15,800
Speaker 1: And she's like, no, it was only ever just work.

877
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:18,960
Speaker 1: And so she's like kind of the cold, calculated one,

878
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:22,680
Speaker 1: and he's the one more willing to be warm and

879
00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 1: like try to coax emotion out of her, which is

880
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:31,920
Speaker 1: something you don't often see in totally hetero relationships, you know,

881
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:35,680
Speaker 1: and it's obviously because of social conditioning, where men are

882
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:40,000
Speaker 1: conditioned to be the more kind of closed off ones

883
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 1: emotionally generally speaking men are not taught how to regulate

884
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:48,799
Speaker 1: or express their emotions very well. So I thought that

885
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:53,120
Speaker 1: that was an interesting subversion at the very least.

886
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:56,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, And then now I'm gonna be hate again.

887
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:58,759
Speaker 3: And I was surprised that, you know, she like she

888
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:03,280
Speaker 3: and Carrie Washington very frankly of like Carrie Washington's character

889
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:05,359
Speaker 3: is like, well, you don't love him, so that's great,

890
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:06,640
Speaker 3: and She's like, I know, I don't.

891
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 1: But then she like kind of like has a moment

892
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:12,760
Speaker 1: to herself where she's like, but do I love him?

893
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 3: Right, which is like, I guess this goes back to

894
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:20,279
Speaker 3: the fact that a character was not necessarily written for

895
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:24,400
Speaker 3: Miss Jane Smith as being a core issue because outside

896
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:29,520
Speaker 3: of them both being hot and obviously they have chemistry,

897
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:32,279
Speaker 3: they like got together because of this movie. But if

898
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:36,200
Speaker 3: you're just reading they like, I don't understand what she

899
00:55:36,520 --> 00:55:39,319
Speaker 3: gained by staying with him. I don't know. I mean,

900
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 3: we think this about couples all the time. I just like,

901
00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:45,640
Speaker 3: he's such a fucking asshole. She's better at what they're

902
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 3: doing than he is. And I understand that logistically, like

903
00:55:50,239 --> 00:55:52,759
Speaker 3: now it's them versus the world, but it almost felt

904
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 3: like a prison sentence for her where it's like good

905
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:58,439
Speaker 3: that she wanted to stay with him, because it didn't

906
00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:01,479
Speaker 3: seem like the movie gave her room to leave him

907
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 3: really because of what their circumstances, and I just it

908
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:11,480
Speaker 3: was weird, and also just the obsession that this movie

909
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:14,640
Speaker 3: had with how much the amount of time that he

910
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:18,959
Speaker 3: brought up how much they were or weren't fucking was incessant.

911
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:21,560
Speaker 3: And then like literally the last line in the movie

912
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:24,120
Speaker 3: is like, everything's great now because we fuck every day,

913
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:27,000
Speaker 3: You're like great. I don't know. I just think if

914
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:30,120
Speaker 3: it was in a different movie, I would be like whoo,

915
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:33,319
Speaker 3: But this one just didn't hit for me. I did

916
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:35,920
Speaker 3: like when Adam Brody wore the Fight Club T shirt

917
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:36,319
Speaker 3: that was.

918
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:43,279
Speaker 1: Finn I mean, haha, funny joke, get it. Yeah, I

919
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:46,320
Speaker 1: have a few more things to say about the characters themselves,

920
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:50,680
Speaker 1: and then we can sure move on. There were a

921
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:54,400
Speaker 1: few other things that I didn't like and just felt

922
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:58,600
Speaker 1: like it was leaning into gendered stereotypes and yeah stuff

923
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:02,839
Speaker 1: you brought up him slut shaming her towards the end

924
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:07,160
Speaker 1: because they're having a conversation where they're both saying a

925
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:10,759
Speaker 1: number of people it's not clear, and I think this

926
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:12,960
Speaker 1: is the joke. It's not clear if it's the number

927
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:15,479
Speaker 1: of people they've had sex with or it's the number

928
00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:18,120
Speaker 1: of people they've killed. I think you can interpret it

929
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:23,040
Speaker 1: either way, and like the uncertainty is the joke in

930
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:26,760
Speaker 1: this situation. But either way, you can interpret it as

931
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:31,480
Speaker 1: she's fucked three hundred and seventeen people or whatever, and

932
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:36,680
Speaker 1: he's threatened by that because it's a lot more than

933
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:42,360
Speaker 1: he has, and he's then making slut shamey comments about

934
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:44,960
Speaker 1: her ear things that can be interpreted as slut shamey comments,

935
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:49,320
Speaker 1: and and this is just not a funny joke. Conversely,

936
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:54,120
Speaker 1: there's a scene where he as they're sort of divulging

937
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:56,920
Speaker 1: new information to each other that they've kept from each

938
00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:59,760
Speaker 1: other all these years. He says something like I was

939
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:03,320
Speaker 1: made before, and she gets very pissed.

940
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 3: Right, because that's what's supposed to matter to her, and

941
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:09,480
Speaker 3: sextual partners is what's supposed to have matter to him.

942
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:15,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, her being jealous of another woman and another romantic

943
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 1: relationship he's had in the past, and she gets so

944
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:22,480
Speaker 1: mad about it, and it just felt like a very tropy,

945
00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:26,480
Speaker 1: like pitting women against each other kind of thing. That

946
00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:31,920
Speaker 1: men do in their writing. There's that there's similar to

947
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:37,720
Speaker 1: the he's obsessed with hating her cooking. There's another like

948
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:43,240
Speaker 1: runner about curtains, where she's like, look, I got new curtains,

949
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:44,200
Speaker 1: and he's.

950
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:47,400
Speaker 3: Also which to me, says I wrote that that like

951
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:50,800
Speaker 3: Simon Kinberg has never done a chore, because it's like

952
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:54,000
Speaker 3: also like he doesn't even know how to write about,

953
00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:57,000
Speaker 3: like if you were a homemaker, what would be important?

954
00:58:57,120 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 3: He's just like a.

955
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:01,040
Speaker 1: Curtain Like what do women do curtains?

956
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:04,760
Speaker 3: Right, Like being a homemaker is and doing domestic work

957
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:08,600
Speaker 3: in general is a very legitimate way to spend one's life.

958
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:14,160
Speaker 3: But the job isn't curtain like. It's just so brain

959
00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:20,680
Speaker 3: was not on when writing any of the missus parts.

960
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:26,560
Speaker 1: Down, certainly not. Also the trope of like her guns

961
00:59:26,680 --> 00:59:30,440
Speaker 1: are in the kitchen because women spend time in the kitchen,

962
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:35,680
Speaker 1: and his guns are in a garage because men like

963
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:38,520
Speaker 1: cars and they go into the garage.

964
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:41,200
Speaker 3: And I think it's just like so much of like

965
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:45,240
Speaker 3: their relationship is predicated on the fact that it is

966
00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:49,680
Speaker 3: safe to assume that every married couple hates each other,

967
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:54,080
Speaker 3: which obviously isn't to say that like all marriages should

968
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:55,960
Speaker 3: be presented as happy and easy.

969
00:59:55,680 --> 00:59:57,880
Speaker 1: Because that's not realistic either.

970
00:59:58,040 --> 01:00:01,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, most people get divorced. But like just that, I

971
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:04,920
Speaker 3: find it so depressing just to be like, they've been

972
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:07,920
Speaker 3: married for five years and they're that miserable, they should

973
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:12,160
Speaker 3: get divorced. Like if I was married to Simon Kinberg,

974
01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:16,680
Speaker 3: I'd be like, are you fucking kidding me? Yeah, fucking

975
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:17,240
Speaker 3: kidding me?

976
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 1: Do then hate me? Yeah? I guess I appreciate that.

977
01:00:21,560 --> 01:00:25,440
Speaker 1: The I suppose moral of the story is if you

978
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:29,680
Speaker 1: are open and honest with your romantic partner, it will

979
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:32,400
Speaker 1: lead to a healthier relationship.

980
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:35,480
Speaker 3: That's true. That is true. And I think, even in

981
01:00:35,520 --> 01:00:39,520
Speaker 3: spite of the Kinberg comment that like, the movie is

982
01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:42,560
Speaker 3: not against couples counseling, and that it seems like it

983
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:46,320
Speaker 3: actually amongst other things, like, yeah, the more honest they

984
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:48,680
Speaker 3: were with each other, the more deeply they fell in love.

985
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:53,760
Speaker 3: And that's a nice precedent. It's all over the place.

986
01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:58,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. Also, I mean, speaking about the guns again, there's

987
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:02,080
Speaker 1: a part where after they've decided to like team up

988
01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:07,960
Speaker 1: and collaborate and their allies, John hands Jane a gun

989
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:10,680
Speaker 1: and she's like, why do I get the girl gun?

990
01:01:11,280 --> 01:01:14,240
Speaker 1: And then he like hands her a different gun, and

991
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:16,560
Speaker 1: I'm sure in two thousand and five they thought that

992
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:22,560
Speaker 1: was like feminism or something lazy. Yeah, yeah, I didn't

993
01:01:22,560 --> 01:01:25,880
Speaker 1: really know what to make of that. But yeah, the

994
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:29,800
Speaker 1: movie's full of different moments where you're just like, I

995
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:33,080
Speaker 1: think they're trying something, or I think they're trying to

996
01:01:33,160 --> 01:01:39,440
Speaker 1: comment on something or challenge a trope. But for the

997
01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:44,840
Speaker 1: most part, it's just leaning into pretty gendered tropes over all.

998
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:48,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, Ultimately, if you're looking for a commentary, she's just

999
01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 3: not the movie to watch. I wanted to say, because

1000
01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:54,080
Speaker 3: I felt like I was losing my mind because she

1001
01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:57,040
Speaker 3: was then not credited and I didn't have the Wikipedia

1002
01:01:57,080 --> 01:01:58,600
Speaker 3: page in front of me. I just watched the movie

1003
01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:02,320
Speaker 3: straight through. Well, Bassett is in fact the voice of

1004
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:05,360
Speaker 3: mister Smith's boss, because I was like, oh, so weird.

1005
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:09,960
Speaker 3: It sounds like Angela Bassett, and it is because I

1006
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:12,600
Speaker 3: think you just hear her on the phone, right and

1007
01:02:12,680 --> 01:02:16,160
Speaker 3: you're just like, whoa, And then who knows. I'm assuming

1008
01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:21,400
Speaker 3: that she knew the director or something. But there's that.

1009
01:02:22,160 --> 01:02:24,200
Speaker 3: In terms of the other characters in this movie, we

1010
01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:27,840
Speaker 3: don't really have much to talk about, I mean, other

1011
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:30,560
Speaker 3: than the respective best friend characters, which, as we were

1012
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:35,080
Speaker 3: hinting at earlier on, Vince Vaughn's character is just obnoxious.

1013
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:38,680
Speaker 3: Every word that comes out of his mouth is misogynist.

1014
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:41,600
Speaker 3: We've talked about characters like this in the past. He

1015
01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:46,600
Speaker 3: fucking sucks, and like you were saying earlier, Caitlin, like him,

1016
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:50,439
Speaker 3: sucking is his personality. But he has a personality which

1017
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:54,440
Speaker 3: we cannot say a Kerry Washington's character, Jasmine, who is

1018
01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:57,840
Speaker 3: playing a very stock best friend character and I think

1019
01:02:57,960 --> 01:03:00,000
Speaker 3: like also very much plays into the black best friend

1020
01:03:00,240 --> 01:03:04,080
Speaker 3: trope where we know nothing about her other than she

1021
01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:08,760
Speaker 3: is Jane Smith's friend and co worker and is there

1022
01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:12,520
Speaker 3: to ask her questions and to ask her like plot

1023
01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:19,960
Speaker 3: questions that set up Jane's also poorly written emotional arc. Yeah, so,

1024
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:24,960
Speaker 3: like you said earlier, like Kerry Washington, obviously, I mean

1025
01:03:25,280 --> 01:03:29,120
Speaker 3: not only deserves better, but like Angelina, Julie very much

1026
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:33,200
Speaker 3: proven that she's way too good for this movie. Other

1027
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:35,600
Speaker 3: than that, I mean, this movie really does sort of

1028
01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:39,760
Speaker 3: stay locked on mister and missus Smith. I don't really

1029
01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:42,160
Speaker 3: know if I have much to say about any other

1030
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:44,680
Speaker 3: characters besides them, and they're best friends.

1031
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:48,000
Speaker 1: Vince Vaughn gets more screen time than Carrie Washington does,

1032
01:03:48,120 --> 01:03:51,560
Speaker 1: which is also telling easily. I think Adam Brody also

1033
01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:55,160
Speaker 1: gets more screen time than Carrie Washington. I do like

1034
01:03:55,200 --> 01:04:00,480
Speaker 1: the idea of an old lady assassin agency, but we

1035
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:04,959
Speaker 1: don't really know anything about it or what the deal

1036
01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:05,760
Speaker 1: is there.

1037
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:09,240
Speaker 3: So a strong idea to introduce. Yeah, that was the

1038
01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:11,240
Speaker 3: kind of thing. My note there was like I really

1039
01:04:11,280 --> 01:04:13,120
Speaker 3: love that, and I wish there was more of it.

1040
01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:15,840
Speaker 3: But also it's not like I want to know what

1041
01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:21,960
Speaker 3: this creative team things happens there, and all women's Assassin

1042
01:04:22,040 --> 01:04:25,360
Speaker 3: Squad would look like you know, there's better movies about it,

1043
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:29,000
Speaker 3: and some of them written by other misogynists. I'm thinking

1044
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:34,920
Speaker 3: about kill Bill, great movie about I guess majority women's

1045
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:37,680
Speaker 3: the Deadly Viper. Yeah, assassination Squad.

1046
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:39,600
Speaker 1: Four of the five of them are women.

1047
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:42,960
Speaker 3: Should we talk about the brandolina of it all?

1048
01:04:43,040 --> 01:04:46,760
Speaker 1: Let's do it. I think you probably have more research

1049
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:49,400
Speaker 1: on this than I do. I just mostly remember like

1050
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:52,880
Speaker 1: the anecdotal stuff as it was happening in real time.

1051
01:04:53,160 --> 01:04:56,600
Speaker 3: Actually, I wanted to start with that before getting into

1052
01:04:56,640 --> 01:04:59,520
Speaker 3: the specifics. This is a sort of a detour into

1053
01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:02,600
Speaker 3: a tiny you're wrong about episode I wanted to know

1054
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:07,000
Speaker 3: what your recollection was of that media cycle before I

1055
01:05:07,040 --> 01:05:07,640
Speaker 3: talked about it.

1056
01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:13,280
Speaker 1: Here's my recollection. I don't know how reliable this information is.

1057
01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:16,440
Speaker 3: It's your recollection. So that's the thing. I feel like,

1058
01:05:16,520 --> 01:05:18,880
Speaker 3: probably it's wrong, and that's interesting.

1059
01:05:20,320 --> 01:05:24,240
Speaker 1: So I remember Brad Pitt and Jennifer Aniston being this

1060
01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:27,760
Speaker 1: power couple that everyone was obsessed with and oh my gosh,

1061
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:31,280
Speaker 1: they're gonna make it and everyone loves them as a

1062
01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:36,600
Speaker 1: celebrity couple. And then Angelina and Jolie enters the picture

1063
01:05:36,880 --> 01:05:40,400
Speaker 1: by way of this movie, because this set is where

1064
01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:45,320
Speaker 1: Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie met, and I remember the

1065
01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:48,520
Speaker 1: kind of media attention around this being that, oh, Angelina

1066
01:05:48,640 --> 01:05:51,320
Speaker 1: Jolie is a home wrecker and she broke up this

1067
01:05:51,400 --> 01:05:54,680
Speaker 1: amazing couple. I also remember something to the effect of

1068
01:05:55,840 --> 01:06:02,720
Speaker 1: the reason that Brad Pitt and Jennifer Aniston cited as

1069
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:06,040
Speaker 1: splitting up had something to do with the fact that

1070
01:06:06,720 --> 01:06:10,320
Speaker 1: she didn't want to have children and he did, so

1071
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:15,000
Speaker 1: I vaguely remember something about that being part of the

1072
01:06:15,040 --> 01:06:19,160
Speaker 1: reason that they split up, but everyone was like, well,

1073
01:06:19,160 --> 01:06:22,640
Speaker 1: it's obviously actually because he fell in love with Angelina

1074
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:25,920
Speaker 1: and Jolly instead yeah, I just remember that part of

1075
01:06:25,960 --> 01:06:29,080
Speaker 1: it and Angelina and Jolie getting a lot of guff

1076
01:06:29,080 --> 01:06:33,200
Speaker 1: for being a home wrecker. I didn't feel really one

1077
01:06:33,240 --> 01:06:35,320
Speaker 1: way about it or the other because I've never been

1078
01:06:35,360 --> 01:06:39,680
Speaker 1: a celebrity gossip person. I just like let it wash

1079
01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:43,640
Speaker 1: over me and I don't pay attention and like, honestly,

1080
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:49,000
Speaker 1: until the news broke pretty recently, was it in the

1081
01:06:49,040 --> 01:06:55,480
Speaker 1: past year that Brad Pitt was outed as an abuser?

1082
01:06:56,160 --> 01:06:58,360
Speaker 1: The past year or two, I think.

1083
01:06:58,480 --> 01:07:02,520
Speaker 3: In a major way. Yeah, in the celebrity gossip world

1084
01:07:02,600 --> 01:07:05,960
Speaker 3: it was, which is a part of this story. And again,

1085
01:07:06,120 --> 01:07:10,440
Speaker 3: like I'll say, for anyone listening for a comprehensive version

1086
01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:13,720
Speaker 3: of this story, this is not the place. But I

1087
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:18,880
Speaker 3: think it became more commonly reported in the last couple

1088
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:21,960
Speaker 3: of years, but the story has been out there for

1089
01:07:22,280 --> 01:07:26,040
Speaker 3: a long time. I believe that the assault.

1090
01:07:25,720 --> 01:07:27,200
Speaker 1: That is think twenty sixteen.

1091
01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:30,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, so the like as long as this show has

1092
01:07:30,720 --> 01:07:33,400
Speaker 3: been like eight years ago, essentially, like I mean, and

1093
01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:37,000
Speaker 3: who knows what a marriage ending, but that was sort

1094
01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:39,960
Speaker 3: of the final straw. And when I think it's presented

1095
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:42,080
Speaker 3: that Angelina Jolie was like, this is not safe for

1096
01:07:42,160 --> 01:07:45,000
Speaker 3: me or the kids, and we've got to get the

1097
01:07:45,040 --> 01:07:46,960
Speaker 3: fuck out of here, right. Yeah.

1098
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:51,000
Speaker 1: So my point is I didn't know about that story

1099
01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:55,480
Speaker 1: when it happened in twenty sixteen. I didn't either, and

1100
01:07:55,640 --> 01:08:00,440
Speaker 1: until it was like sort of re reported post me two,

1101
01:08:01,360 --> 01:08:04,240
Speaker 1: I thought they were still married. Like, I didn't even

1102
01:08:04,280 --> 01:08:07,240
Speaker 1: know they got divorced. Like that's the level at which

1103
01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:10,680
Speaker 1: I'm paying attention to celebrity gossip, so it's almost none.

1104
01:08:10,720 --> 01:08:13,480
Speaker 1: I rarely care about it like that, It's just not

1105
01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:14,520
Speaker 1: my thing.

1106
01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:17,200
Speaker 3: Well, that's why I was curious, like what your memory

1107
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:19,280
Speaker 3: of the time was, because it was like, whether you

1108
01:08:19,280 --> 01:08:23,240
Speaker 3: were interested in the story or not, you couldn't avoid it, really, Okay,

1109
01:08:23,360 --> 01:08:27,000
Speaker 3: So yes, the truth thing is that these two met

1110
01:08:27,040 --> 01:08:30,000
Speaker 3: on the set of this movie, began having an affair

1111
01:08:30,240 --> 01:08:34,000
Speaker 3: while brad Pitt was still married to Jennifer Aniston, and

1112
01:08:34,360 --> 01:08:39,200
Speaker 3: that he then left Jennifer Aniston and in quick order

1113
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:42,559
Speaker 3: was with Angelae Jullie. They didn't get married for years,

1114
01:08:42,560 --> 01:08:45,559
Speaker 3: but there was also and I won't get too deep

1115
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:50,120
Speaker 3: into this, but there was pretty soon after they were

1116
01:08:50,120 --> 01:08:55,320
Speaker 3: together they started having children and adopting children, and ultimately

1117
01:08:55,360 --> 01:08:58,120
Speaker 3: I think that they have five or six children together,

1118
01:08:59,080 --> 01:09:03,839
Speaker 3: either biological or adopted, and from what I have gathered,

1119
01:09:04,320 --> 01:09:06,559
Speaker 3: none of these children want anything to do with brad Pitt,

1120
01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:10,720
Speaker 3: and that's just the truth anyways, But just trying to

1121
01:09:10,800 --> 01:09:13,280
Speaker 3: keep stuff in order. At the time, I feel like

1122
01:09:13,320 --> 01:09:17,680
Speaker 3: you sort of got this very classic Madonna horror tabloid

1123
01:09:17,720 --> 01:09:21,639
Speaker 3: story with Jennifer Aniston and Angelina Joe Lee. The two

1124
01:09:22,240 --> 01:09:25,759
Speaker 3: essays that I'm pulling from here. The first was published

1125
01:09:25,880 --> 01:09:29,479
Speaker 3: last year in Vox by Constance Grady. Brad Pitt was

1126
01:09:29,520 --> 01:09:32,600
Speaker 3: the only winner of the Aniston Jolie tabloid battle. The

1127
01:09:32,720 --> 01:09:35,240
Speaker 3: other is an older piece by a writer I really

1128
01:09:35,240 --> 01:09:40,519
Speaker 3: really like, Anne Helen Peterson in BuzzFeed. Amember that from

1129
01:09:40,760 --> 01:09:44,400
Speaker 3: twenty fourteenth's almost ten years ago, and that piece is

1130
01:09:44,439 --> 01:09:48,479
Speaker 3: more of a deep dive on how Angelina Joe Lee

1131
01:09:49,040 --> 01:09:51,760
Speaker 3: essentially had to like pr maneuver her way out of

1132
01:09:51,760 --> 01:09:55,720
Speaker 3: this fucking nightmare yea, and eventually, at least at the

1133
01:09:55,720 --> 01:09:58,000
Speaker 3: time it was published, seemed to have successfully done. So

1134
01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:01,320
Speaker 3: both are really good pieces. I'd recommend checking both out,

1135
01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:04,400
Speaker 3: particularly the more recent one. But essentially, I mean, and

1136
01:10:04,720 --> 01:10:09,599
Speaker 3: I remember this even though I was eleven and should

1137
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:12,120
Speaker 3: not have known any of this, even though I wasn't

1138
01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:14,479
Speaker 3: interested in it. Just you couldn't go to a grocery

1139
01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:18,440
Speaker 3: store without being confronted with this story.

1140
01:10:18,240 --> 01:10:20,040
Speaker 1: The cover of every magazine.

1141
01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:22,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, I feel like the story evolved

1142
01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:28,040
Speaker 3: over time, and it started as you know, Angelina Jolie

1143
01:10:28,160 --> 01:10:32,160
Speaker 3: is a man stealer, Jennifer Aniston is the sweet girl

1144
01:10:32,240 --> 01:10:37,160
Speaker 3: next door. Angelina Jolie is this like vampy man stealer,

1145
01:10:37,320 --> 01:10:41,839
Speaker 3: home wrecker essentially, which media of the time really played

1146
01:10:41,880 --> 01:10:45,639
Speaker 3: into ways that she had either presented herself or been

1147
01:10:45,720 --> 01:10:49,799
Speaker 3: framed in the past of like, you know, early Angelina

1148
01:10:49,880 --> 01:10:53,800
Speaker 3: jo Lee kissed her brother and like wore Billy Bob

1149
01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:56,920
Speaker 3: Thornton's blood around her neck, and like she was a

1150
01:10:57,000 --> 01:11:01,080
Speaker 3: weird lady like and I think that anything she did

1151
01:11:01,160 --> 01:11:03,560
Speaker 3: in her twenties, and she also had I don't know

1152
01:11:03,640 --> 01:11:06,280
Speaker 3: a ton about her early life except that she is

1153
01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:10,120
Speaker 3: the daughter of John Voight, who's famously a piece of

1154
01:11:10,160 --> 01:11:12,680
Speaker 3: fucking garbage, and like, I believe they don't have a

1155
01:11:12,680 --> 01:11:18,040
Speaker 3: relationship anyways. Sounds like a difficult upbringing, a kind of

1156
01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:23,280
Speaker 3: like tumultuous twenties that she had, but also very successful.

1157
01:11:23,360 --> 01:11:25,760
Speaker 3: She wanted to oscar for girl interrupted. But either way,

1158
01:11:25,800 --> 01:11:30,800
Speaker 3: they're like okay, Jennifer Anison good, Angelina Jolee bad. However,

1159
01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:36,559
Speaker 3: as time went on, that narrative didn't flip, but it

1160
01:11:36,640 --> 01:11:41,760
Speaker 3: did change where once Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt had

1161
01:11:41,840 --> 01:11:47,600
Speaker 3: a family and Angelina Joe which had already begun. And

1162
01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:50,759
Speaker 3: I want to be careful not to like position any

1163
01:11:51,360 --> 01:11:56,240
Speaker 3: humanitarian work that she's done as disingenuous, Like I don't

1164
01:11:56,280 --> 01:11:59,080
Speaker 3: think that that is true. We don't need to get

1165
01:11:59,080 --> 01:12:00,760
Speaker 3: into the weeds of like, well, what is it, you

1166
01:12:00,760 --> 01:12:04,639
Speaker 3: know whatever. I do believe that the convictions that she's presented,

1167
01:12:04,720 --> 01:12:06,840
Speaker 3: it's been at least on a long enough timeline that

1168
01:12:06,920 --> 01:12:10,280
Speaker 3: whether you agree with the particulars or not, it seems

1169
01:12:10,320 --> 01:12:14,200
Speaker 3: to be a big part of her life. But as

1170
01:12:14,240 --> 01:12:16,600
Speaker 3: that became a bigger part of her life, and she

1171
01:12:16,640 --> 01:12:20,559
Speaker 3: sort of was presented as less of a home wrecking

1172
01:12:20,640 --> 01:12:25,400
Speaker 3: vamp and more of a mother of five who did

1173
01:12:25,479 --> 01:12:29,400
Speaker 3: all of this work, you see the narrative flip. And

1174
01:12:29,560 --> 01:12:34,639
Speaker 3: like all, Angelina Julie is not bad anymore. The more

1175
01:12:34,720 --> 01:12:37,559
Speaker 3: she leans into motherhood, or the more the media leads

1176
01:12:37,600 --> 01:12:40,920
Speaker 3: into the image of motherhood, she's presented better and better.

1177
01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:45,719
Speaker 3: And meanwhile, Jennifer Aniston does not end up having children,

1178
01:12:46,280 --> 01:12:51,080
Speaker 3: and she's presented as pathetic on a longer timeline. Yeah,

1179
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:54,040
Speaker 3: you're totally right that at the time, it was presented

1180
01:12:54,080 --> 01:12:58,599
Speaker 3: that Jennifer Anison didn't want children and Brady Pitt did

1181
01:12:58,720 --> 01:13:01,440
Speaker 3: so he found a woman who can give him children.

1182
01:13:02,280 --> 01:13:05,840
Speaker 3: It turns out that this is also not true. She

1183
01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:10,120
Speaker 3: had fertility issues and had them. I mean, I don't

1184
01:13:10,840 --> 01:13:14,639
Speaker 3: cannot speak to the timeline that she but it wasn't

1185
01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:18,439
Speaker 3: until like twenty nineteen where she gave an interview that

1186
01:13:18,960 --> 01:13:22,120
Speaker 3: was like, there was this popular narrative about me that

1187
01:13:22,240 --> 01:13:24,120
Speaker 3: like I didn't want to comment on because it's just

1188
01:13:24,160 --> 01:13:27,559
Speaker 3: like fucked up and weird, because whether you want children

1189
01:13:27,640 --> 01:13:30,799
Speaker 3: or not is a very personal decision and has nothing

1190
01:13:30,840 --> 01:13:34,080
Speaker 3: to do with anything. And also it shouldn't have been

1191
01:13:34,120 --> 01:13:38,200
Speaker 3: criticized if she didn't want children, but as it turns out,

1192
01:13:38,280 --> 01:13:41,840
Speaker 3: she did, and it was also just this like big

1193
01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:46,559
Speaker 3: traumatic lie. So it's, you know, one of the more

1194
01:13:46,640 --> 01:13:51,559
Speaker 3: I think famous and fucked up media narratives. Because of

1195
01:13:51,560 --> 01:13:56,320
Speaker 3: course in all of these, Brad Pitt is never presented

1196
01:13:56,479 --> 01:14:00,600
Speaker 3: as bad. It's he was tempted or he was not

1197
01:14:00,760 --> 01:14:04,120
Speaker 3: given the babies that he wanted, so who could blame him,

1198
01:14:04,360 --> 01:14:06,400
Speaker 3: which is a lot of what the vox essay is

1199
01:14:06,439 --> 01:14:11,080
Speaker 3: about of just like it was never even floated or

1200
01:14:11,160 --> 01:14:14,719
Speaker 3: presented that he could be at fault for anything. It

1201
01:14:14,760 --> 01:14:17,080
Speaker 3: has to be the fault of one woman or the other.

1202
01:14:17,160 --> 01:14:19,120
Speaker 3: And there were t shirts sold and all this shit.

1203
01:14:19,840 --> 01:14:23,919
Speaker 3: So I think, you know, Angelina and Jolie and Jennifery

1204
01:14:23,920 --> 01:14:29,959
Speaker 3: Addison's career, you have to imagine mental health are affected

1205
01:14:29,960 --> 01:14:35,080
Speaker 3: by that. And then on a longer timeline, Brad Pitt

1206
01:14:35,120 --> 01:14:38,240
Speaker 3: and Angelina and Jolie have a family together. They get

1207
01:14:38,240 --> 01:14:44,320
Speaker 3: married at some point, and he was an abusive alcoholic

1208
01:14:44,760 --> 01:14:47,720
Speaker 3: person to her, and without getting into I think we

1209
01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:50,840
Speaker 3: have referenced it on the show before and other Brad

1210
01:14:50,880 --> 01:14:53,720
Speaker 3: Pitt vehicles. I don't remember which episode off the top

1211
01:14:53,760 --> 01:14:58,120
Speaker 3: of my head, but essentially, he assaulted his wife and

1212
01:14:58,120 --> 01:15:00,920
Speaker 3: berated one of his children in front of the whole

1213
01:15:00,920 --> 01:15:05,759
Speaker 3: family on a plane in twenty sixteen, which resulted in

1214
01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:10,680
Speaker 3: an investigation. It resulted in police reports, and ultimately it

1215
01:15:10,720 --> 01:15:15,479
Speaker 3: was at least a contributing factor to their eventual divorce.

1216
01:15:16,280 --> 01:15:19,960
Speaker 3: What that looks like now, It was actually in the

1217
01:15:20,200 --> 01:15:23,920
Speaker 3: news as recently as four days before. We're recording this.

1218
01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:27,840
Speaker 3: I think a lot of the reason even though post

1219
01:15:27,880 --> 01:15:30,320
Speaker 3: me to, and I can't say exactly when I remember

1220
01:15:30,360 --> 01:15:32,759
Speaker 3: first hearing this story for the first time, but post

1221
01:15:32,800 --> 01:15:38,519
Speaker 3: me to this story was brought up again because I

1222
01:15:38,520 --> 01:15:41,559
Speaker 3: think that it was reported at the time, but no

1223
01:15:41,600 --> 01:15:42,880
Speaker 3: one took an.

1224
01:15:42,880 --> 01:15:48,600
Speaker 1: Interest culturally, we simply didn't yeah, post me to.

1225
01:15:49,479 --> 01:15:53,240
Speaker 3: So I guess anytime after late twenty seventeen, this story

1226
01:15:53,600 --> 01:15:57,960
Speaker 3: comes back, but it does keep kind of disappearing like

1227
01:15:58,000 --> 01:16:01,960
Speaker 3: it never stayed. It appears that the reason that is

1228
01:16:01,960 --> 01:16:07,719
Speaker 3: is because Brad Pitt has been repeatedly suing Angelina Jolie

1229
01:16:08,240 --> 01:16:12,680
Speaker 3: to get her to say less about this. Essentially, so

1230
01:16:12,760 --> 01:16:15,679
Speaker 3: the story I'm pulling from Angelina Jolie's lawyers call Brad

1231
01:16:15,680 --> 01:16:19,519
Speaker 3: Pitt's NDA request abusive in winery case, there's also this

1232
01:16:19,560 --> 01:16:22,040
Speaker 3: whole business like they're rich and so they had a

1233
01:16:22,080 --> 01:16:26,439
Speaker 3: winery business and they're in a fight with that. But

1234
01:16:27,040 --> 01:16:30,200
Speaker 3: basically like he's finding all of these reasons to sue her.

1235
01:16:30,280 --> 01:16:34,160
Speaker 3: Because I want to make sure I'm getting this correct.

1236
01:16:35,439 --> 01:16:38,160
Speaker 3: A quote from a Vulture article by Zoe Guy from

1237
01:16:38,160 --> 01:16:41,800
Speaker 3: a few days ago. Jolie's attorneys previously claimed Pitt wanted

1238
01:16:41,840 --> 01:16:44,920
Speaker 3: her to sign an onerous and expansive NDA that would

1239
01:16:45,000 --> 01:16:48,880
Speaker 3: quote cover Pit's personal misconduct, whether related to a Miraval,

1240
01:16:49,120 --> 01:16:53,320
Speaker 3: the winery, or not, including the abuse allegations related to

1241
01:16:53,360 --> 01:16:56,479
Speaker 3: an incident on a plane in twenty sixteen, in order

1242
01:16:56,520 --> 01:16:59,400
Speaker 3: for Jolee to agree to sell her stake in Miraval

1243
01:16:59,520 --> 01:17:02,000
Speaker 3: to Pit. When the deal fell apart over the matter,

1244
01:17:02,120 --> 01:17:05,479
Speaker 3: she sold her shares elsewhere, So essentially he's suing her

1245
01:17:06,120 --> 01:17:09,519
Speaker 3: for selling her shares to this winery she no longer

1246
01:17:09,560 --> 01:17:11,759
Speaker 3: wants anything to do with because she doesn't want to

1247
01:17:11,880 --> 01:17:15,439
Speaker 3: be involved in his life, and he attempted to make

1248
01:17:15,479 --> 01:17:18,559
Speaker 3: it impossible for her to extract herself from their co

1249
01:17:18,680 --> 01:17:22,160
Speaker 3: owned business unless she signed an NDA saying she could

1250
01:17:22,200 --> 01:17:26,040
Speaker 3: never publicly speak about him being a domestic abuser, Which

1251
01:17:26,680 --> 01:17:29,760
Speaker 3: how is that fucking legal? I couldn't tell you. But

1252
01:17:30,000 --> 01:17:32,400
Speaker 3: she just sort of was like It appears that she

1253
01:17:32,479 --> 01:17:34,599
Speaker 3: was sort of like fuck you and sold her shares

1254
01:17:34,640 --> 01:17:37,599
Speaker 3: off anyways, and now he's trying to sue her again.

1255
01:17:38,680 --> 01:17:41,200
Speaker 3: I think the Brad Pitt obviously has a very vested

1256
01:17:41,240 --> 01:17:48,560
Speaker 3: interest in his image and does not care about anybody,

1257
01:17:48,720 --> 01:17:52,280
Speaker 3: perhaps accept himself. Yeah, he is a bitch. I hate

1258
01:17:52,320 --> 01:17:54,960
Speaker 3: him in the bad way. We talked about this. I'm sorry,

1259
01:17:54,960 --> 01:17:56,360
Speaker 3: we talked about this our episode yesterday.

1260
01:17:56,400 --> 01:17:57,360
Speaker 1: I want Monsters Inc.

1261
01:17:57,479 --> 01:17:59,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, in Munsters Inc. Go to the Matreon.

1262
01:18:00,200 --> 01:18:02,360
Speaker 1: Bitch in a bad way, bitch in a bad way,

1263
01:18:02,560 --> 01:18:05,320
Speaker 1: or bitch is in a good way exactly.

1264
01:18:05,439 --> 01:18:07,840
Speaker 3: So, while there are you know, I'm sure plenty of

1265
01:18:08,120 --> 01:18:12,640
Speaker 3: criticisms of Angelina Julie that have nothing to do with

1266
01:18:12,680 --> 01:18:15,200
Speaker 3: this marriage. Brad Pitt very much the villain of this

1267
01:18:15,280 --> 01:18:19,400
Speaker 3: marriage and still actively the villain of this marriage. I

1268
01:18:19,439 --> 01:18:26,160
Speaker 3: want to just finally close by reading what their son

1269
01:18:26,600 --> 01:18:32,759
Speaker 3: Packs posted on Father's Day to his Instagram story. He said,

1270
01:18:33,680 --> 01:18:37,080
Speaker 3: Happy Father's Day to this world class asshole. You time

1271
01:18:37,120 --> 01:18:39,240
Speaker 3: and time again prove yourself to be a terrible and

1272
01:18:39,280 --> 01:18:42,320
Speaker 3: despicable person. You have no consideration or empathy towards your

1273
01:18:42,320 --> 01:18:45,240
Speaker 3: four youngest children, who tremble in fear when in your presence.

1274
01:18:45,680 --> 01:18:47,560
Speaker 3: You will never understand the damage you have done to

1275
01:18:47,600 --> 01:18:50,360
Speaker 3: my family because you are incapable of doing so. You

1276
01:18:50,400 --> 01:18:52,280
Speaker 3: have made the lives of those closest to me a

1277
01:18:52,360 --> 01:18:55,200
Speaker 3: constant hell. You may tell yourself in the world whatever

1278
01:18:55,240 --> 01:18:57,320
Speaker 3: you want, but the truth will come to light someday.

1279
01:18:57,479 --> 01:19:01,599
Speaker 3: So Happy Father's Day, you fucking awful human being, and

1280
01:19:01,920 --> 01:19:06,679
Speaker 3: so I see no reason not to go with him there. Yeah,

1281
01:19:06,720 --> 01:19:12,040
Speaker 3: and to believe children of abusive parents. It appears, at

1282
01:19:12,120 --> 01:19:13,840
Speaker 3: least at the time of this recording, it seems like

1283
01:19:13,920 --> 01:19:17,679
Speaker 3: Angelina Jolie has a good relationship with all of her children.

1284
01:19:18,439 --> 01:19:20,160
Speaker 1: They have six, By the way, I know that we

1285
01:19:20,160 --> 01:19:21,559
Speaker 1: were not sure if it's five or six.

1286
01:19:21,640 --> 01:19:24,439
Speaker 3: I was literally doing the mister and missus Smiths five.

1287
01:19:24,400 --> 01:19:28,599
Speaker 1: Or children, It's yeah, it's six, because.

1288
01:19:28,360 --> 01:19:30,599
Speaker 3: I think they had twins, And then I kept counting

1289
01:19:30,640 --> 01:19:34,960
Speaker 3: twins as one, which is twin discrimination. And I apologize

1290
01:19:34,960 --> 01:19:39,200
Speaker 3: to the twin community. But yes, it seems like Angelina,

1291
01:19:39,600 --> 01:19:42,840
Speaker 3: or at least their children publicly have a good relationship

1292
01:19:42,880 --> 01:19:46,599
Speaker 3: with her, and they also publicly fucking hate Brad Pitt.

1293
01:19:46,800 --> 01:19:50,200
Speaker 3: So fuck Brad Pitt. I guess is the little bow

1294
01:19:50,280 --> 01:19:51,280
Speaker 3: I want to put on that second.

1295
01:19:51,520 --> 01:19:55,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, there are a number of movies that he is

1296
01:19:56,400 --> 01:20:01,519
Speaker 1: the star of that I really like, and I don't

1297
01:20:01,640 --> 01:20:04,400
Speaker 1: consume those movies anymore, or at least not to the

1298
01:20:04,439 --> 01:20:08,880
Speaker 1: same extent that I was. But like you know, and

1299
01:20:08,920 --> 01:20:11,559
Speaker 1: we've talked about, I'm never gonna be someone who like

1300
01:20:11,600 --> 01:20:16,360
Speaker 1: separates the art from the artists. It doesn't necessarily mean

1301
01:20:16,400 --> 01:20:19,479
Speaker 1: that I will refuse to watch certain things. I will

1302
01:20:19,520 --> 01:20:24,479
Speaker 1: just be mindful of horrible people involved in the project. Yeah,

1303
01:20:24,520 --> 01:20:27,360
Speaker 1: it varies project a project or you know, actor or

1304
01:20:27,439 --> 01:20:30,120
Speaker 1: actor what you know. It's very much on a case

1305
01:20:30,160 --> 01:20:31,280
Speaker 1: by case basis.

1306
01:20:31,360 --> 01:20:34,759
Speaker 3: But and everyone's on like sort of a personal journey

1307
01:20:35,479 --> 01:20:37,920
Speaker 3: right with that, Like, I certainly don't think anyone who

1308
01:20:38,120 --> 01:20:41,960
Speaker 3: like would watch a movie with Brad Pittknitt is a

1309
01:20:42,040 --> 01:20:45,000
Speaker 3: bad person. I think he's just personally Yeah, I think

1310
01:20:45,080 --> 01:20:48,879
Speaker 3: as time goes on, I find him harder and harder

1311
01:20:48,960 --> 01:20:49,960
Speaker 3: to stummitch.

1312
01:20:50,280 --> 01:20:53,120
Speaker 1: Sure, And it's been a journey for me because like,

1313
01:20:53,439 --> 01:20:57,120
Speaker 1: there was a long time where he was someone I

1314
01:20:57,240 --> 01:20:59,559
Speaker 1: enjoyed very much watching on screen.

1315
01:20:59,840 --> 01:21:01,679
Speaker 3: And he's a good actor.

1316
01:21:01,800 --> 01:21:05,960
Speaker 1: Unfortunate he's a good actor, he is, and he's charismatic

1317
01:21:06,240 --> 01:21:09,240
Speaker 1: and charming the way that a lot of scary bad

1318
01:21:09,280 --> 01:21:13,320
Speaker 1: people are. And this was one of the harder ones

1319
01:21:13,320 --> 01:21:15,200
Speaker 1: for me to be like, oh, I don't fuck with

1320
01:21:15,320 --> 01:21:17,800
Speaker 1: him anymore. Fuck Brad Pitt.

1321
01:21:18,680 --> 01:21:22,000
Speaker 3: The end, this movie passes the Bechdel testing.

1322
01:21:23,000 --> 01:21:27,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, there are a few scenes in Lady Assassin Headquarters

1323
01:21:27,560 --> 01:21:33,320
Speaker 1: Industries where but although are they ever not talking about

1324
01:21:33,640 --> 01:21:34,439
Speaker 1: John Smith.

1325
01:21:35,120 --> 01:21:38,400
Speaker 3: Let me triple check, but I think I clocked a

1326
01:21:38,439 --> 01:21:43,519
Speaker 3: few like barely passes. I did technically pass, I would

1327
01:21:43,520 --> 01:21:49,200
Speaker 3: say spiritually definitely not. So whoever's editing the Wikipedia page

1328
01:21:49,200 --> 01:21:51,760
Speaker 3: these days sort of go with God. I would say,

1329
01:21:53,320 --> 01:21:58,600
Speaker 3: yeah it technically I think may pass between Jane and Jasmine,

1330
01:21:59,080 --> 01:22:04,080
Speaker 3: but spiritually know because neither of them are really characters that.

1331
01:22:04,040 --> 01:22:05,599
Speaker 1: Were written true.

1332
01:22:05,800 --> 01:22:09,960
Speaker 3: So it's challenging. Actually there's oh, this is one of

1333
01:22:09,960 --> 01:22:14,640
Speaker 3: my favorites because there is a like old website that

1334
01:22:14,680 --> 01:22:18,360
Speaker 3: we consult sometimes to check our own work Bectel test Dott.

1335
01:22:19,560 --> 01:22:21,280
Speaker 3: And every once in a while you find a movie

1336
01:22:21,280 --> 01:22:24,880
Speaker 3: where there is just a rich comment section where they're like, well,

1337
01:22:25,000 --> 01:22:27,320
Speaker 3: sort of and then other people are like, it doesn't.

1338
01:22:27,600 --> 01:22:31,080
Speaker 3: So jury's kind of out on this one that like

1339
01:22:31,400 --> 01:22:33,920
Speaker 3: the official ruling of the website is no. There's a

1340
01:22:33,920 --> 01:22:36,679
Speaker 3: lot of comments you're saying technically yes, I'd say, let's

1341
01:22:36,800 --> 01:22:37,320
Speaker 3: just go with no.

1342
01:22:37,960 --> 01:22:42,840
Speaker 1: I'm fine with that because either it's Kerry Washington's character

1343
01:22:43,200 --> 01:22:50,400
Speaker 1: and Jane Smith talking about killing a man that's better

1344
01:22:50,439 --> 01:22:54,719
Speaker 1: than nothing, but they are mostly talking about John Smith,

1345
01:22:55,040 --> 01:22:57,799
Speaker 1: I believe, And then there might be an interaction between

1346
01:22:58,240 --> 01:23:02,080
Speaker 1: Jane Smith and her neighbor, Missus Coleman. They're always talking

1347
01:23:02,080 --> 01:23:07,679
Speaker 1: about the Colemans, and maybe something there passes. But again,

1348
01:23:07,800 --> 01:23:13,360
Speaker 1: that's a very fleeting moment, a fleeting character, not plot impactful.

1349
01:23:13,520 --> 01:23:16,400
Speaker 1: So I would say spiritually know the movie does not

1350
01:23:16,560 --> 01:23:17,800
Speaker 1: pass the Bechdel.

1351
01:23:17,479 --> 01:23:21,479
Speaker 3: Test, and possibly technically now yes, but what about the

1352
01:23:21,479 --> 01:23:24,760
Speaker 3: most important media metric of all, Oh, do you.

1353
01:23:24,680 --> 01:23:29,519
Speaker 1: Mean the Bechdel cast nipple scale, where we rate the

1354
01:23:29,680 --> 01:23:33,599
Speaker 1: movie zero to five nipples based on examining it through

1355
01:23:33,640 --> 01:23:37,200
Speaker 1: an intersectional feminist lens. I'll give this movie one nipple.

1356
01:23:37,640 --> 01:23:42,080
Speaker 1: There are some things I did appreciate more at the time,

1357
01:23:42,280 --> 01:23:46,559
Speaker 1: and still to some degree appreciate, which is the woman's

1358
01:23:46,600 --> 01:23:50,400
Speaker 1: involvement in the action. I think a lot of other

1359
01:23:50,640 --> 01:23:54,000
Speaker 1: movies that would have an assassin who's a woman would

1360
01:23:54,080 --> 01:23:57,040
Speaker 1: still not let her do much. So I appreciate that

1361
01:23:57,600 --> 01:24:01,720
Speaker 1: she's a far more active participant in the action than

1362
01:24:02,120 --> 01:24:06,240
Speaker 1: we're accustomed to seeing, especially of movies from this era.

1363
01:24:07,040 --> 01:24:11,480
Speaker 1: And there are a couple other slight subversions that I appreciated,

1364
01:24:11,800 --> 01:24:17,679
Speaker 1: like the man being the more emotionally expressive, sentimental one

1365
01:24:18,400 --> 01:24:21,800
Speaker 1: and not that like I'm advocating for women to be

1366
01:24:21,880 --> 01:24:26,240
Speaker 1: closed off emotionally, it's more that a trope is present.

1367
01:24:25,960 --> 01:24:28,080
Speaker 3: But it does happen and you never see it.

1368
01:24:27,960 --> 01:24:31,559
Speaker 1: And you don't see it, and so I appreciate the

1369
01:24:31,600 --> 01:24:35,439
Speaker 1: subversion of that trope. But by and large, it's a

1370
01:24:35,479 --> 01:24:40,599
Speaker 1: movie leaning into gendered tropes and it's not as good

1371
01:24:40,960 --> 01:24:45,400
Speaker 1: as I once thought. The movie was so one nipple

1372
01:24:45,439 --> 01:24:48,240
Speaker 1: for the few things that I appreciate, and it goes

1373
01:24:48,400 --> 01:24:52,479
Speaker 1: to Carrie Washington. Justice for Carrie Washington.

1374
01:24:53,640 --> 01:24:56,080
Speaker 3: I am going to go half a nipple because I

1375
01:24:56,120 --> 01:24:59,120
Speaker 3: don't really I don't have a nostalgia for it. The

1376
01:24:59,120 --> 01:25:02,280
Speaker 3: more I read about it, the BRANDOLINASAKA, the more just

1377
01:25:02,560 --> 01:25:04,680
Speaker 3: like a hostile agridge with it. It's not you know,

1378
01:25:04,880 --> 01:25:09,599
Speaker 3: you cannot blame the movie itself, but spiritually I do.

1379
01:25:10,600 --> 01:25:14,400
Speaker 3: And so I'm gonna give it a half nipple, and

1380
01:25:14,439 --> 01:25:16,680
Speaker 3: I'm gonna give the half nipple to.

1381
01:25:18,640 --> 01:25:18,680
Speaker 2: Know.

1382
01:25:18,680 --> 01:25:23,360
Speaker 3: I'm gonna give it to Angelina Jolie. And with that, Caitlin,

1383
01:25:23,400 --> 01:25:24,559
Speaker 3: Happy freaking birthday.

1384
01:25:25,080 --> 01:25:29,599
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. If listeners want to do something

1385
01:25:29,960 --> 01:25:34,120
Speaker 1: nice for me on my birthday, g me. You can

1386
01:25:34,640 --> 01:25:38,080
Speaker 1: follow me on Instagram. I was just talking about this

1387
01:25:38,280 --> 01:25:42,880
Speaker 1: on the Monsters, Inc. Episode, which may have already come

1388
01:25:42,880 --> 01:25:45,960
Speaker 1: out or maybe it comes out very soon, but either way,

1389
01:25:46,080 --> 01:25:49,720
Speaker 1: on the Matreon, right on the Matreon. Either way. I

1390
01:25:49,760 --> 01:25:54,560
Speaker 1: am trying to do more stand up in LA and elsewhere,

1391
01:25:55,120 --> 01:26:00,400
Speaker 1: and it helps to get booked on shows the more

1392
01:26:00,560 --> 01:26:04,280
Speaker 1: followers you have. I don't necessarily like that that's the case,

1393
01:26:04,920 --> 01:26:08,280
Speaker 1: but it is. But we live the fact of the matter.

1394
01:26:08,360 --> 01:26:11,320
Speaker 1: We live in a society, So just follow me on

1395
01:26:11,360 --> 01:26:15,960
Speaker 1: Instagram so that I can appear to be a legitimate comedian.

1396
01:26:16,080 --> 01:26:18,960
Speaker 3: You are dufest wow thing.

1397
01:26:19,360 --> 01:26:26,719
Speaker 1: I mean, I know that, but bookers don't. Anyway, Listeners,

1398
01:26:26,720 --> 01:26:32,480
Speaker 1: thank you so much for listening to the show. And

1399
01:26:33,160 --> 01:26:37,360
Speaker 1: you know, I just feel extra sentimental on my birthday

1400
01:26:38,600 --> 01:26:42,120
Speaker 1: and finally free Palestine.

1401
01:26:42,439 --> 01:26:43,759
Speaker 3: The Happy Birthday Kitlin.

1402
01:26:44,080 --> 01:26:51,400
Speaker 1: Thank you. Follow us also on Instagram at Bechdel Cast.

1403
01:26:51,680 --> 01:26:54,519
Speaker 1: There's our Patreon. Ooh, another little gift you could give

1404
01:26:54,520 --> 01:26:57,320
Speaker 1: me for my birthday. If you're not already a Matreon subscriber,

1405
01:26:57,680 --> 01:27:01,760
Speaker 1: go over to patreon dot com spetl Cast, where you

1406
01:27:01,760 --> 01:27:04,679
Speaker 1: can get two bonus episodes every single month, plus access

1407
01:27:04,720 --> 01:27:09,120
Speaker 1: to the one hundred and fifty bonus episodes on the

1408
01:27:09,240 --> 01:27:14,799
Speaker 1: Matreon for five dollars a mom mentioned and our tour

1409
01:27:15,080 --> 01:27:17,920
Speaker 1: kicks off very soon, so grab tickets to that if

1410
01:27:17,960 --> 01:27:21,360
Speaker 1: you don't already have it at link tree slash Spectel Cast.

1411
01:27:21,479 --> 01:27:25,120
Speaker 1: We're in various cities in the UK as well as Dublin.

1412
01:27:25,600 --> 01:27:27,800
Speaker 3: And you know what, I'm not gonna plug anything because

1413
01:27:27,800 --> 01:27:30,240
Speaker 3: it's your damn birthday, Happy birthday.

1414
01:27:31,120 --> 01:27:34,080
Speaker 1: But people should listen to your new show, your new podcast,

1415
01:27:35,000 --> 01:27:36,120
Speaker 1: say something about it.

1416
01:27:36,880 --> 01:27:41,400
Speaker 3: Wow, only because you ask in your birthday. Yeah, please

1417
01:27:41,479 --> 01:27:43,360
Speaker 3: check out if you haven't checked it out already, we

1418
01:27:43,400 --> 01:27:45,800
Speaker 3: should be a few I guess two episodes deep when

1419
01:27:45,800 --> 01:27:49,639
Speaker 3: this comes out. Sixteenth Minute is a new weekly show

1420
01:27:49,760 --> 01:27:52,679
Speaker 3: doing that comes out every Tuesday. That's a different profile

1421
01:27:52,760 --> 01:27:55,479
Speaker 3: every week of a different Internet character of the day.

1422
01:27:55,640 --> 01:27:59,679
Speaker 3: So I believe this week our episode on the dress

1423
01:27:59,840 --> 01:28:02,120
Speaker 3: just came out. Member, that was it the.

1424
01:28:02,160 --> 01:28:06,080
Speaker 1: Dress that people either saw? Was it like white and

1425
01:28:07,240 --> 01:28:09,080
Speaker 1: wet and gold or black and blue?

1426
01:28:09,280 --> 01:28:09,479
Speaker 5: Right?

1427
01:28:09,800 --> 01:28:10,040
Speaker 3: Yes?

1428
01:28:10,280 --> 01:28:12,360
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I'll never forget.

1429
01:28:12,800 --> 01:28:15,600
Speaker 3: Never forget. Yeah. So every episode is like that, just

1430
01:28:15,680 --> 01:28:18,240
Speaker 3: Internet things that have been ingrained in your brain against

1431
01:28:18,240 --> 01:28:21,320
Speaker 3: your will. Every episode's about that, So check it out.

1432
01:28:21,360 --> 01:28:23,400
Speaker 3: We're having a fun time over there, and it's also

1433
01:28:23,439 --> 01:28:27,719
Speaker 3: produced by Bechdel Cast producer Sophie Lichterman, so very nice.

1434
01:28:28,000 --> 01:28:33,440
Speaker 3: Enjoy your birthday, Kaitlin, thank you so much. Enjoy your day, listeners.

1435
01:28:33,000 --> 01:28:38,559
Speaker 1: Yes, happy birthday to you also, and we'll be back

1436
01:28:38,640 --> 01:28:49,400
Speaker 1: next week for more episode Bye bye. The Bechdel Cast

1437
01:28:49,479 --> 01:28:52,800
Speaker 1: is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Derante and

1438
01:28:52,920 --> 01:28:56,800
Speaker 1: Jamie Loftus, produced by Sophie Lickterman, edited by Mola Board.

1439
01:28:57,280 --> 01:29:00,479
Speaker 1: Our theme song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals

1440
01:29:00,479 --> 01:29:04,439
Speaker 1: by Katherine Voskresenski. Our logo and merch is designed by

1441
01:29:04,520 --> 01:29:08,600
Speaker 1: Jamie Loftus and a special thanks to Aristotle Assevedo. For

1442
01:29:08,720 --> 01:29:12,760
Speaker 1: more information about the podcast, please visit linktree slash Bechtelcast