1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,880 Speaker 1: All right, we're back for another episode of the Friday Podcast, 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:08,240 Speaker 1: and tonight we have guests and other architecture guests. We 3 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: have Keith Rebb with us. Keith is a long time 4 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:17,080 Speaker 1: associate for Core and Crenshaw. He recently completed his first 5 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: you know, independent design. He partnered up with Riley Johns 6 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 1: to do a makeover of Orlando's Winter Park project. So 7 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: you may have seen Keith. He's been making a lot 8 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: of appearances on the Golf Channel, becoming quite the TV celebrity. 9 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: Uh so we're excited to have Keith on. Keith, thanks 10 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: for coming on. 11 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 2: Hey, thanks, Andy, I appreciate it, you know, thanks, thank 12 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 2: you for the listeners to tune in. I'm sure a 13 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 2: lot of people like, who is Keith Reb you know, 14 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 2: and why are we why are we tuning in? But 15 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:51,639 Speaker 2: hopefully at the end we kind of who I am 16 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 2: and you know, kind of what what what I've been doing? 17 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 2: So thank you for having me on. 18 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, we're excited to talk architects. So, you know, 19 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: I think you've got a very interesting story about how 20 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: you got into architecture. You know, it was kind of 21 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: an unconventional way, So why don't you tell the listeners. 22 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: You know how you became a golf course architect. 23 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,839 Speaker 2: Well, I mean it kind of first starts in Lincoln, Nebraska. 24 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 2: You know, I was doing concrete work. You know, fifteen 25 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:26,960 Speaker 2: years ago. If you would have talked to me, I 26 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 2: would be standing in concrete with a concrete loop in 27 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:32,039 Speaker 2: my hand, watching concrete come out of the back of 28 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 2: the truck, you know. And you know, I kind of 29 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 2: thought that, you know, this isn't exactly what I want 30 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 2: to be doing. And I went and interviewed with Landscapes 31 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 2: and Limited, a golf course development company in Lincoln, Nebraska. 32 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 2: I got hired on the spot and packed everything up 33 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 2: the next week and I moved to Agar, South Dakota, 34 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 2: a town of fifty people, to live in a trailer 35 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 2: down by the river. And you know, I mean that's 36 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 2: that was the start. You know, I'm mean, making a 37 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 2: big move, going to a place that I need have 38 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 2: never been to. And you know, once I stepped on 39 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 2: that golf course is a Grand Marsh design and and 40 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 2: I looked out there and and you know, over the 41 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 2: lake and everything there, I was like, man, this is 42 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 2: you know, this is what I want to be doing. 43 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 2: And you know, just you know, really fell in love 44 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 2: with with being outside and and doing that, and so 45 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 2: that I mean, that's kind of the first start of 46 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 2: getting into golf. You know, I didn't you know, as 47 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 2: a kid. I wasn't like, you know, aspiring to be 48 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 2: an architect or anything like that at that point. But 49 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 2: you know, it's like more and more just seeing different 50 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 2: golf courses and being exposed to these different places and 51 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 2: working with Bill and Ben. It just you can't help 52 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 2: but just fall in love with, you know, this business. 53 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: So I'm kind of kind of curious, you said, you 54 00:02:56,200 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: so when you go on site, few typical we just 55 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: live right on the golf course. 56 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 2: Uh, you know, you try to find some of our 57 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 2: close I mean, you know that that place when I 58 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,239 Speaker 2: was at a gard the only place that we could live. 59 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 2: You know, you you have the people there set you 60 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:15,079 Speaker 2: up a place to live and who you live with. 61 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:19,399 Speaker 2: You know, it was an interesting kind of set up there. 62 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 2: I got sent out there, and then I and that Lloyd, 63 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 2: a guy that I worked with there that started at 64 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 2: the same time, you know, probably about my dad's age, 65 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 2: and and that's who my roommate was going to be. 66 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:33,920 Speaker 2: You know, so we're living in this trailer. You know. 67 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 2: I mean it's kind of I go into a little 68 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 2: funny story that I've told the Riley and Trevor of some. 69 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: Of these guys. 70 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 2: But you know, we we'd work all week, long, long hours, 71 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 2: go home and I kicked back in a recliner and 72 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 2: Lloyd would, you know, have a couple of bud lights 73 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 2: and then fall asleep on the couch. But he'd always 74 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 2: eat Ritz crackers. And it was just one funny one 75 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 2: day We're sitting there and all of a sudden I 76 00:03:56,200 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 2: look over always passed out, you know, sleep and and 77 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 2: there's a mouse that came out of the couch and 78 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 2: just eating crackers. You know, it's just it's just you know, 79 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 2: these funny stories of these places that you're eating, you'll 80 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 2: live at and and you know, just looking over the mouse, 81 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 2: you know, eating crackers. And I don't know, funny stories 82 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 2: maybe for some, but yeah, I uh, it resonates with me. 83 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: I used to work for a tech startup and I 84 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 1: had to travel from city to city and we stayed 85 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 1: in just the worst places. And one of them we 86 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:32,840 Speaker 1: stayed we were staying in l a and we had 87 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 1: this mocking bird and we were staying in like a 88 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:39,040 Speaker 1: double wide trailer, and this mocking bird would would come 89 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: out at like midnight every night and just tweet like 90 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: all night long. But one of my buddies he would 91 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 1: go out and spray it with a hose at like 92 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 1: three in the morning. It was awful. The funny funny 93 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:55,840 Speaker 1: things of you know, remote work. 94 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So, I mean that's you know, that's kind 95 00:04:59,960 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 2: of one of those places you always try to find 96 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 2: somewhere close just so it's convenient. So you moved to 97 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 2: different places. 98 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: So then and so you're kind of working along there 99 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 1: and Phil and Ben are get their get their contract 100 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: to do Colorado Golf Club and and you get to 101 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: start working with them. Tell tell me a little bit 102 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 1: about how you got looped in with Coren Crenshaw and 103 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 1: that was, you know, one of their earlier projects. If 104 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: I have my tea, Yeah, so, you know. 105 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 2: I'm working with Landscapes Unlimited for about three years and 106 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 2: then I get assigned to go to work at Colorido 107 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 2: Golf Club. Landscapes Unlimited was the contractor for Friendshaw with 108 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 2: the designer. So I was just kind of working, as 109 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:51,160 Speaker 2: you know, just a utility guy working on skid loaders, 110 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 2: tractors or anything like that. And you know, I still 111 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 2: remember it to this day, you know, meeting Phil and 112 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 2: Ben on the fourth fair way out there, and you know, 113 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 2: I was just picking out a little ravine and you know, 114 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 2: I think at that time I didn't even know that 115 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 2: I was maybe big and though possible bunker or something, 116 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 2: and you know, Bill and Ben, you know, came up 117 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 2: and then Bill was like, you know, yeah, why don't 118 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 2: you just dig this out a little bit here, maybe 119 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 2: kind of little here, but just have fun with it. 120 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 2: I just thought, like that concept always stuck with me. 121 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 2: His thinking of just have fun, and I guess just 122 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 2: thinking of that and kind of the contractor mode have 123 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 2: fun with it just didn't really I guess connect. And 124 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 2: I just think, you know, when Bill mentioned that, you 125 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 2: know that that was really a neat thing, you know, 126 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 2: just go out and have fun and you know, and 127 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 2: kind of what happened was, you know, as working and 128 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 2: seeing the course evolved over time, a lot of the 129 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 2: guys got called to go to Sooro and Wikipaw in 130 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 2: Arizona to go work on that golf course. So they 131 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 2: kind of got pulled to the next one. And there 132 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:04,840 Speaker 2: was a little nine hole, little part three course that 133 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 2: that that needs to be built and and they kind 134 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:11,559 Speaker 2: of you know Bill, and then that gave me a chance. 135 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 2: You know, that was the first first opportunity to actually 136 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 2: shape something or build a green or build a bumper. 137 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 2: And you know, I was able to work with Dave 138 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 2: atlin h just a great guy, I me know, a 139 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 2: great friend, a great mentor, I mean, someone that that 140 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 2: it was so neat to work with Dave because he 141 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 2: had so much knowledge and so much experience, and then 142 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 2: me just being like a greenhorn, you know, coming in. 143 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 2: But then yet both of us just working together and 144 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 2: having a lot of fun, and he could teach me things. 145 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 2: You know. I just remember one day when I was 146 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 2: we were going to go look at a green and 147 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 2: and and I kind of forgot to move the dozer, 148 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 2: you know, so we walked back at the tea and 149 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 2: then look at this green. But then I parked the 150 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 2: dozer right in the front of the green. You know, 151 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 2: he just like Keith, you know, you're showing your horns, 152 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 2: you know, you know, you're showing your greenhorns, you know. 153 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 2: And it was just, you know, it's just neat working 154 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 2: with Dave. And we had a lot of fun. And 155 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 2: I think a lot of people really enjoy that. That's 156 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 2: that's part three golf, part free course of Colorado Golf Club. 157 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. That's uh. I'm hoping I saw there they 158 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: got the mid am in a few years, so fingers crossed, 159 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: I'll I'll get out there to play and that if 160 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:32,199 Speaker 1: not sooner. But yeah, I've heard nothing but great things 161 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:36,319 Speaker 1: about uh Colorado Golf Club. And then, uh, you've got 162 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: to you kind of are You're a big fan of 163 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: the short course, right, you. 164 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:43,679 Speaker 2: Know, Yeah, I I am, you know what I mean. 165 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 2: You know, I'm not I'm not the greatest golfer either, 166 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 2: you know, So I mean I enjoy kind of getting 167 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 2: out there learning the game and and not getting beat up, 168 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 2: and and and and having fun. And I think that's 169 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 2: I think that's a lot of things that we need 170 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 2: to get back to. It's just having fun, you know, 171 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 2: getting getting around with a couple of buddies, you know'll 172 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 2: just shoot some shots and match play and you know, 173 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 2: just enjoy the game the way it should be played. 174 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 1: And yeah, that's that's that's. 175 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 2: I just hope we get back to the roots, you know, 176 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 2: And it looks like it's slowly getting that way. With 177 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:20,839 Speaker 2: a lot of hor it seems like more courses are 178 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 2: you know, adding a short course, you know, and it's 179 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 2: it's exciting to see that. 180 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think a great bootprint is you know, taking courses, 181 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: making them less holes and taking out some of the 182 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: bad holes, making like things like putting courses or like 183 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 1: little three hole courses that somebody can go out and 184 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: play and play three holes in forty five minutes. 185 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 2: You know. 186 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: I think one of the things golf can do is 187 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: create more ways for people to to do it quickly 188 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 1: because it's you know, and in today's day and age, 189 00:09:56,559 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: I think it really needs to compete. Have petitive options 190 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:05,199 Speaker 1: for like somebody's workout time. You know, people carve out 191 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: an hour for working out, Like why can't we figure 192 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 1: out a way that's more fun than you know, hitting 193 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 1: a bucket range boss for an hour, you know, whether 194 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:18,719 Speaker 1: it be putting courses, short courses, you know, short loops. 195 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 2: So I'm on board with that, exactly, I am one 196 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 2: hundred percent. So I guess, you know, kind of to 197 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 2: go back to a little bit of the you know, 198 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 2: so after Colorado of off Club, you know, kind of 199 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 2: still working for landscapes and limited it's a little bit 200 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 2: later in the few years down the road, I get 201 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 2: a call, you know, to to come out to sugar 202 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 2: Loaf Mountain in Claremont, Florida to be the first official 203 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 2: you know project to work for court Friendshaw. So, you know, 204 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 2: getting that phone call, I'm like, you know, I'm in Colorado, 205 00:10:56,400 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 2: it's snowing. I'll be in Florida, you know the next day. 206 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 2: So that that was the you know, that was the 207 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 2: first first, the official court Friend Shop project that I 208 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:14,080 Speaker 2: worked on. You know, the others were with with landscapes. 209 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 1: So sugar Loave's got kind of an interesting story. It's 210 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 1: like one of those you know, golf courses that has 211 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: the sad end. So tell us, tell us a little 212 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 1: about sugar Loaf then you know the course for those 213 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:30,679 Speaker 1: that you know don't know about it. 214 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, Sugarloaf Mountain is the second highest point 215 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 2: is Florida. It's on sugar stands. It's it's a really 216 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 2: neat site. You really don't feel like you're at you know, 217 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 2: you don't feel like you're in Florida when you're on 218 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 2: that site, you know. I mean it was just it 219 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,439 Speaker 2: was right at two thousand and eight, you know, I mean, 220 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 2: the bubble was bursting it was going to be real 221 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 2: estate driven. You know, it was probably not you know, 222 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 2: really didn't get out there in the media, didn't get 223 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 2: the exposure that it needed to. You know, it struggled, 224 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 2: and then it finally uh went back to nature. You know. 225 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:15,959 Speaker 2: I mean, you go back there right now. I went 226 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 2: back there a couple of years ago. Together. There's still 227 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 2: bunker rakes and old bunkers, and you know it's basically 228 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 2: you know, tuble weeds and and the nettle grass, and 229 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 2: it's it's a shame. It's it's a great sight. You know. 230 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 2: I would love someday for someone to figure out a 231 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 2: way to disconnect the real estate with it and be 232 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 2: able to bring that course back to life. 233 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, I can only imagine. I get sad when I 234 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: read about golf course clothings. But like, I mean, like, 235 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: how sad were you when you heard of the news 236 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:52,840 Speaker 1: that it was kind of shuting down when like, you know, 237 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:56,679 Speaker 1: you spent like months of your life, you know, pouring 238 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:57,559 Speaker 1: sweat into it. 239 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 2: I mean, you know it does it doesn't bother you 240 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:05,960 Speaker 2: a little bit, you know. I mean all these guys 241 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 2: with four printshout that I work with, you know, they 242 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 2: put their hearts into the building the best golf they 243 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:13,720 Speaker 2: can and and Bill and Ben and and everyone. You know, 244 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 2: they they put it, they put themselves into it, they 245 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:20,319 Speaker 2: put their heart into it, and it's defing worse than 246 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 2: seeing it. Just you know, go away. You know it's done, 247 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 2: it's closed down, the doors are shut. I mean, you know, 248 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:30,839 Speaker 2: it's still kind of weird. You go out there to 249 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 2: drive by the golf course and they still have the 250 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 2: old sign up, like you know, Bill and Ben's first 251 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 2: golf course in Florida. You know, I mean it's it's uh, 252 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 2: it's tough. I mean, you know, maybe someone will go 253 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 2: out and take a look and realize the potential is 254 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 2: sight and you know, bring them back out there. 255 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:55,199 Speaker 1: So it's uh fingers crossed. That's why. You know, as 256 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: long as it doesn't turn into houses, it's got. 257 00:13:57,640 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 2: A chance, right, yeah, exactly. 258 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:06,439 Speaker 1: So I think you know, obviously Core and Crenshaw, since 259 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: you know, they are become the primo guys and golf 260 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 1: course design and are kind of leading this charge of 261 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 1: the you know Golden age, like kind of the new 262 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: Golden age of architecture with Dope and Bill Hans and all, 263 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: you know, these young off and comers, you know, having 264 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 1: worked with him for like ten plus years. Now, what's 265 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: something that you've noticed that they do so well that like, 266 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: you know that the common person might overlook, and you 267 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: know or even the you know, sharpest of architecture geeks 268 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 1: would overlook that they do just so well with their sites. 269 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: And why you know these all these sites turn out 270 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 1: such big successes. 271 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 2: I mean I would say, is uh. I mean probably 272 00:14:55,760 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 2: one thing. You know, there's no ego there, the egos 273 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 2: aren't there. They know how to bring the best potential 274 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 2: out of the people that they're working with, but also 275 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 2: the site. You know, Bill is the best at like 276 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 2: you know, bringing the potential out of the people that 277 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 2: he's around. You know, I mean everyone's got, you know, 278 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 2: a talent or something to bring to to a site, 279 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 2: and if you kind of limit the input or the 280 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 2: people that's involved, you tend to lose the potential to site. 281 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 2: And I think that's one thing that Bill and Ben 282 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 2: and a lot of these other guys know how to 283 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 2: bring the right people and talented people together and the 284 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 2: team together too to really bring the project to you know, 285 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 2: bring out the again potential of the projects. 286 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: So with the you know, the you know kind of 287 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 1: team like what's typically a you know, a build team, 288 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: look like on a daily basis that at a site. 289 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: So like you're working on the new course at Big 290 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 1: Seater Lodge now, like you know what what type of 291 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 1: you know, what's the side of the team that you 292 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: guys usually have out there. 293 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 2: I mean right now we've got you know, Jimbo right, 294 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 2: great shafer, awesome shaper Bill with Phil and Ben forever, 295 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 2: very talented guy you know out here, and you got 296 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 2: Jeff Bradley you know aka bunker Do up out here 297 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 2: doing the bunkers, you know what I mean? So you 298 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 2: have different specialists you know that that do that that 299 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 2: are on the site. You know a lot of times 300 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 2: it's three four four guys. It's just you know, different 301 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 2: sites have different things, you know, Like when I was 302 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 2: out in Tasmania, it was just Dave Axton and myself 303 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 2: and and then we uh, you know toss the on 304 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 2: you know, the guys locally there on how to you 305 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 2: know the build stuff and and and finish things. 306 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: So mm hmm, what would you say, is you know 307 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: your favorite site that you've worked on? Is it you know, 308 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:10,399 Speaker 1: Winter Park or was it one of the core crunch Off. 309 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 2: Sites you know, I get I get that quote question 310 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 2: quite a bit. They lost farm Tasmania, Barnbougle to working 311 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 2: at Cava Cliffs, you know, stream Songs, Old Town, you know, Yokohama, 312 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 2: a country club in Japan. You know, I mean they 313 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 2: all have their own little characters to them. I mean 314 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 2: it's it's hard to pick one out that would say 315 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,640 Speaker 2: would be the best. But you know, I mean Tasmania 316 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 2: was just you know, a really neat site, all sand 317 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 2: and working with the owners there was just a really cool, 318 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 2: cool place. 319 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: So h So you know, it's listed you as a shaper, 320 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:59,159 Speaker 1: so for you know, just the maybe novice architecture fans, 321 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:02,679 Speaker 1: could you walk through you know, like what you know 322 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 1: a shaper does? And you know how how you know, 323 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:10,360 Speaker 1: how do you get good at shaping? 324 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 2: You know? I mean I guess you know how you 325 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 2: get good a shaping as I think you kind of 326 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 2: start from, you know, a shovel, You start from, you know, 327 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:22,640 Speaker 2: shoveling things. You kind of learn how to build things, 328 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 2: you know, by hand, and then you kind of work 329 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,640 Speaker 2: your way up. You know, you get more opportunities to 330 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 2: get on different pieces of equipment, like maybe a skid 331 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 2: loader or a miniac and then an estivator and then 332 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 2: the dozor you know, it just it takes a lot 333 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:42,440 Speaker 2: of patience. You know, it's it's you know what we 334 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 2: do is you know, we're normally shaping bunkers or fair 335 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 2: ways or greens. And it's just I don't know, it's 336 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 2: it's what I look forward to. It's like my office 337 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 2: each day. You know, I hop in a dozer and 338 00:18:56,280 --> 00:19:00,080 Speaker 2: and I can move earth and and be creative. And 339 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:02,879 Speaker 2: you know that's one thing that then, which is so 340 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 2: neat out here, that is they don't put you in 341 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 2: a box of like here's exactly you know, this is 342 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 2: exactly what you need to build, here's a plan. You 343 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,679 Speaker 2: got to hit these grades. You know, they're like, you know, 344 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 2: this is what we're kind of looking at. You know, 345 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 2: but if you but if you see something or something happened, 346 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 2: run with it. You know, they never put you in 347 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 2: a situation where they're trying to put you in a box. 348 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 2: They give you a lot of creative freedom out there. 349 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 2: And I mean that's what just makes it so much 350 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 2: fun is that you know, each day out there you're 351 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,400 Speaker 2: doing something a little different and you're just being able 352 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 2: to have fun and not worrying about making a mistake 353 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 2: or having Bill and Ben or someone come out and say, 354 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 2: you know, man, that's you know, what did you use it? 355 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 2: You're messed up or something like that. They would never 356 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 2: do that. And sometimes if if a mistake happens or 357 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 2: something like that, it's it's it ends up being something 358 00:19:56,080 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 2: that's even better than what anyone would have thought would happen. 359 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 2: So it's it's really neat working with Bill and Ben 360 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 2: and they really give you that creative freedom and you 361 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 2: never have to worry about making a mistake out that's 362 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:12,360 Speaker 2: that's awesome. 363 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 1: It's the it's usually the way people do their best 364 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:19,119 Speaker 1: work is when they have the freedom and know that 365 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 1: you know, if I do something and I believe that, 366 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 1: you know, they're going to back me out. But it's 367 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 1: I mean, that's cool. What's your favorite kind of feature 368 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,880 Speaker 1: to build? You know, whether it's not necessarily while you're 369 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 1: building it, but like, what do you what do you 370 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 1: think is kind of like the coolest feature to put 371 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 1: on a golf course? 372 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 2: I guess you know features I would say, you know, 373 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,199 Speaker 2: like a picker slope or something like that. You know, 374 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,479 Speaker 2: if there's a certain slope that it's someone's flazer going 375 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 2: to reward it and then they might not know, like, 376 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 2: hey there's a little slot here in my fifteth year 377 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 2: that the ball might run. You know, that's just one 378 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 2: thing that Bill. You know, you see the influences that. 379 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: Your favorite Golden Age architects. Obviously we we like Golden 380 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 1: Age architects, but the Frida Egg would love to hear 381 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 1: kind of in your studying, you know who kind of 382 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,160 Speaker 1: stands out in your mind. 383 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 2: I mean I would definitely say one hundred Perry Maxwell, 384 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,439 Speaker 2: you know, I mean having the opportunity to work at 385 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 2: Old Town and seeing how he laid that golf course 386 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 2: on the land and the greens and you know, the 387 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,360 Speaker 2: little Maxwell role and things like that that he has 388 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 2: in those dreams. I mean, you know what I mean 389 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 2: for me, you know, not really coming up being like, Okay, 390 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 2: this is what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna be an architect. 391 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 2: You know, Perry Maxwell was a banker, fell in love 392 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 2: with the game, and then let that love kind of 393 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:03,440 Speaker 2: transition into act actually becoming an architect. So I kind of, 394 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:07,360 Speaker 2: you know, I kind of relate to that, you know, 395 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,359 Speaker 2: and it just I mean, Old Town is just a 396 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 2: special place I mean you get a chance to get 397 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 2: out there and look at that, you see the influences 398 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:19,680 Speaker 2: that that had on Bill Bill's design, which is really 399 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,679 Speaker 2: neat to to kind of come full circle to be 400 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,679 Speaker 2: on that side to say, now I kind of get 401 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 2: why Bill builds a certain contour or or maybe this 402 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 2: certain type of drain. So that that I think definitely, uh, 403 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,159 Speaker 2: Harry Maxwell, and I look forward to as I have 404 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 2: time off to go look at more of his his courses. 405 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 1: Yeah what what what his courses there highest on your 406 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:46,400 Speaker 1: kind of bucket list to see? 407 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 2: I mean Verry Prairie Dunes. I mean you can't you know, 408 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 2: you Hutch in Kansas know that or worked out there 409 00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 2: a lot, and that was what was cool about old 410 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 2: And again I'm working with Dave Exlin again, you know 411 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 2: him and I are working on that, you know, as 412 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 2: a team. So yeah, I mean just you know, I mean, 413 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 2: you know, you just you get this architecture. You start, 414 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 2: like you said, when you first get out there and 415 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:18,359 Speaker 2: you start first getting that little taste of what it is, 416 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:20,639 Speaker 2: and you kind of get to see it on the 417 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 2: ground and you see that and it gets you and 418 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,679 Speaker 2: you want to learn more and you want to go 419 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,679 Speaker 2: search out different golf courses. And I mean that's the 420 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 2: biggest thing for me, is like, you know, coming from 421 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 2: more of the construction side of things, there's more that 422 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 2: I look forward to seeing more of these golf courses 423 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 2: because I can look at it a way of like, Okay, 424 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,239 Speaker 2: how do you build that? You know, not just how 425 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 2: is it design? But then how can I actually build that? 426 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 2: And what equipment would I need to build something? Neat 427 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,359 Speaker 2: like that? So I think kind of coming from it 428 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,120 Speaker 2: from a different angle, I mean for me, it's that's 429 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,959 Speaker 2: that's what I look forward to, is it is searching 430 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,880 Speaker 2: out more of these golf courses and in learning more. 431 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:10,159 Speaker 2: I mean I'm always learning. 432 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 1: So yeah, I think that everybody is always learning. With architectures, 433 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: h There's there's infinite cool little courses to see. I 434 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 1: mean I feel like I add ten courses I want 435 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 1: to go to every day, and it's you know the 436 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 1: tough part about it. Hopefully in a lifetime you'll get 437 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: to see all of them, but very unlikely that's going 438 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: to happen. 439 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. 440 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 1: So you know, in terms of you know, if you 441 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: were going to describe what your dream project to work 442 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,639 Speaker 1: on would be, you know, what what what type of 443 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:51,160 Speaker 1: things would you know be the five characteristics that you'd say, 444 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 1: you know, this is the ideal project and situation I'd 445 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 1: want to build my own course on. 446 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 2: Well. I mean, I think the first you start with team. 447 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 2: You know a bunch of guys that you know, all 448 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 2: get along. You know, they they don't have egos, you know, 449 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 2: they they like to collaborate and and just have fun, 450 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,119 Speaker 2: you know. I mean, I think the biggest thing is 451 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 2: when you see these golf courses being built and everyone's 452 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 2: having fun. I think it kind of gets in the 453 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,879 Speaker 2: DNA of that golf course and and it shows like, 454 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 2: you know, these guys really enjoyed being here and they 455 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 2: have fun building the soft course. And I think that's 456 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 2: the biggest thing is is you know, if you have 457 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 2: the team of guys you know like Riley Trevor, you know, 458 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 2: Andrew Littlefield, you know, all these different I mean Blake, 459 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:40,360 Speaker 2: I mean you could go on and on of these 460 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 2: guys that just love what they do. They're very creative, 461 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,400 Speaker 2: but they don't let egos get in the way. You know, 462 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 2: there might be a thing where and also put Day there. 463 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 2: I gotta put Day backs on of course because he's 464 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,400 Speaker 2: just no ego, greatest guy to work with, and it's 465 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 2: just where you can say, hey, I'm stuck here, why 466 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,920 Speaker 2: don't you come over here and work on this and 467 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,159 Speaker 2: and kind of see what you can do, you know, 468 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 2: And I think that's that's what makes it so much fun, 469 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 2: is when you know each person can kind of put 470 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:16,439 Speaker 2: their layer creativity on a site. And that's what I 471 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 2: look forward to. So my dream site would be working 472 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 2: with a bunch of people that love love the game 473 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 2: of golf, love architecture, no egos, and and want to 474 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 2: have fun and and build you know, cool golf. 475 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think everybody's best. 476 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:39,679 Speaker 2: Work and it and on top of that sand site, 477 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:44,680 Speaker 2: sand site on the coast, so you kind of add 478 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,399 Speaker 2: the most maybe in Tasmania or somewhere you know, so 479 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 2: you know, you kind of add some of those things 480 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,119 Speaker 2: into it. But it just for me is just the 481 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,640 Speaker 2: group of guys you have together. If it's a hard, 482 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 2: rocky site, you still got guys that are enjoying it 483 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 2: and having fun and like to get along and build google. 484 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 2: I mean, if it's a rocky site or if it's 485 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,880 Speaker 2: a sand site, it's about it's about the team. 486 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 1: So MH. It's I mean, how much harder is it 487 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,880 Speaker 1: to shape stuff with the rocky site? I mean obviously 488 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: stand I you know, you can see how you can 489 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 1: just move it to every way you want it to move. 490 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,919 Speaker 1: But with rocky site, you know what, what kind of 491 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,119 Speaker 1: do you have different strategies? Like what do you have 492 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,639 Speaker 1: to do to you know, kind of get it into 493 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 1: an ideal, you know, the way you want it. 494 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,440 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, first you're looking at you know, 495 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 2: just the cost. I mean you're looking at the equipment, 496 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 2: the amount of equipment and heavy equipment you have to 497 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,400 Speaker 2: have on a site to move the rock or we'll 498 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 2: cut through the rock, or if you have to blast. 499 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:51,119 Speaker 2: You know, then you think about how you get the 500 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,680 Speaker 2: irrigation took around. I mean, there's so many things that 501 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 2: you know, become more of expense. You know. 502 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,680 Speaker 1: It's just that it sounds like just don't build on 503 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 1: a rocky site. 504 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:09,679 Speaker 2: Well, I mean it also it depends on how I 505 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 2: get what kind of rock. 506 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:12,440 Speaker 1: I mean like out. 507 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 2: Here at the ridge course out here, you know in Branson, 508 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,919 Speaker 2: it's rocky soil, but it breaks up pretty easily. I 509 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 2: mean you can rip it and kind of break it up, 510 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,400 Speaker 2: and we're kind of on ridges, so we don't really 511 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,159 Speaker 2: get into the heavy rock. So I mean, but but 512 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,680 Speaker 2: if it's a site you're you know, you're you're blasting 513 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,680 Speaker 2: a way, then it's kind of like you got to 514 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 2: kind of take that in consideration. Is this is this 515 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 2: worth the cost? You know? I mean, are we just 516 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 2: wasting someone's money here to get a couple of good 517 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 2: holes and then the rest are just mediocre? I mean 518 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 2: that's what you always got to look at on a site. 519 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 2: What the potential of the full side is not just 520 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 2: to have one great signature hole and then walk away 521 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 2: and the rest are like mediocre. So, you know, it's 522 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 2: just I think I think the biggest thing is just 523 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 2: really gonna think about the money you're spending on your client, 524 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 2: you know, and making sure that you know you can 525 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 2: get the full potential out of a site and not 526 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:15,560 Speaker 2: waste their money. Huh. 527 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it makes a lot of sense. It's, uh, 528 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: you have to have eighteen good holes. If you want 529 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 1: to have a great course, they have to you have 530 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 1: to have eighteen great holes, you know. 531 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean those. 532 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 1: Are the courses that stand out, and are you know, 533 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: at the top of the list. 534 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 2: You know, I think you know, Bill always explained it, like, 535 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 2: you know, it's it's kind of like a roller coaster, 536 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 2: you know, not every hole can always be at the 537 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 2: very top, you know, and you're going down as a 538 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 2: great you know, you've got to have you know, connecting 539 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 2: holes and stuff like that, and you've got to have 540 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 2: a good balance, you know. And and it's like, you know, 541 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 2: so many sites are just sacrifice for or to We're 542 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 2: going to get this one hole out here, and then 543 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 2: the rest of the golf course isn't gonna isn't gonna fit, 544 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 2: you know. I mean I think Cabot Cliss is you know, 545 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 2: the perfect example of that. I mean, you know, Bill 546 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 2: has this amazing sight that you know, be Ben Callender 547 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 2: you know, had out there, and you know, Bill's like, 548 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 2: you know, you really need to get you know a 549 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 2: little bit more properly over here, and you really need 550 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 2: to get this, you know. You know, and when a 551 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 2: lot of times a lot of people would say, oh, 552 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 2: well this is good enough. We'll do this and we'll 553 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 2: just build the rest of these holes, you know up 554 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 2: here in the trees. But we'll have a couple holes 555 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 2: out here that you know, you can see the ocean front. 556 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 2: So I think that's you know, a really neat thing 557 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 2: that Bill you know, won't just settle for a couple 558 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 2: of good foals, that he wants to make sure that 559 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 2: if he's going to be there, that again he can 560 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 2: get the full potential out of the site, you know, 561 00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:57,800 Speaker 2: for that client. 562 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and they've no arguing the work they've 563 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: been doing. Like I mean, it's so many, so many 564 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: great golf courses. It's cool to see and so you know, 565 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 1: let's let's switch gears and move more into you and 566 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 1: Riley's work at winter Park. So you know, the training 567 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 1: wheels were off. Now you were out on your own. 568 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: You got your name on the project. So for those 569 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 1: of listeners that aren't familiar, I'll put some videos in 570 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:37,239 Speaker 1: the in the podcast page that the Golf Channel has 571 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 1: done a great job with. But the background of Winter 572 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 1: Park is, you know, it was a kind of overgrown 573 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 1: municipal golf course that the community kind of banded and 574 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 1: said we want something better. So you know, it's keys. 575 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 1: I'm sure you can color it in more. But I'd 576 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: love to hear about how you guys got involved, how 577 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 1: you you know, on the project, and then we can 578 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 1: talk more about you know, the project as a whole. 579 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. So I guess you just I guess you 580 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 2: got to kind of start at square one. You know, 581 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 2: you got you got residents there like Matt Haggerty and 582 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 2: Gary Deal and you know, they they they saw their 583 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 2: golf course there and you know, they loved it, but 584 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 2: they they saw the potential. They said, hey, we we 585 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,239 Speaker 2: could be we can be better. So you know, what 586 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 2: do these guys do. They they put together a cast 587 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 2: force that then reported to the governor, I mean the 588 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 2: mayor there to kind of give him input like, hey, 589 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 2: this is what we're looking at. You know, here's you know, 590 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 2: Matt Haggerty works at the golf channels, you know a 591 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 2: lot of great golf courses. You know, Gary's been in 592 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 2: the field too, so they have, you know, their expertise 593 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 2: and their input, and they brought that to to the mayor, 594 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:57,680 Speaker 2: you know, to say, hey, like I really think we 595 00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 2: could be better. So they start task force. They went 596 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 2: to the task force and they kind of dust deeper 597 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 2: into the golf course and realized that there's a lot 598 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 2: more work to be done. You know, it's this isn't 599 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 2: just a you know, do a couple of greens and 600 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 2: and everything's going to be great. You know, the golf 601 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 2: course greens had roots growing in them, you know, so 602 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:24,720 Speaker 2: they're mowing over roots. You know, the the graph is mutated, 603 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:31,000 Speaker 2: the course is stashed over so it doesn't drain properly. 604 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 2: So you know, so they went to the mayor, they 605 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,480 Speaker 2: went to the task force. They put out an RFP 606 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 2: I put together a team with Riley and and and 607 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 2: Don Halfney to to put together a team that could 608 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 2: get the job done in the timeframe that they needed 609 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 2: it done. So, you know, when they were looking at us, 610 00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 2: they they saw that we would be on site and 611 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 2: every day, and they saw a really big benefit that 612 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 2: So that's that's awesome. 613 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: So you know, you go down there, how long did 614 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,920 Speaker 1: the project take and kind of you know, walk us 615 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 1: through a little bit of you know, kind of your vision, 616 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 1: uh for the golf course. 617 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, so it was, uh, you know, three of us 618 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 2: out there. So you know, Riley, myself and Blake Coone 619 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:33,320 Speaker 2: and you know, we you know, three guys out there, 620 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:37,800 Speaker 2: you know, out there shaping building bunkers, you know, fairways 621 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:44,000 Speaker 2: and everything. So it was it was three months, three 622 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 2: guys and a d three you know, that's that's what 623 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:48,840 Speaker 2: we kind of we always kind of laughed a little 624 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 2: because the D three doser is you know, we ordered 625 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 2: a D five, but we get a D three. You know, 626 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 2: it's very small doser compared to what we needed to 627 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 2: get the job done. You know, so it you know, 628 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:09,440 Speaker 2: it was, uh, it was exciting to work with with, 629 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 2: you know, just like minded people that were out there 630 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,600 Speaker 2: to to get the best out of the golf course. 631 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,560 Speaker 2: I mean, it was I'm trying to think of how 632 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 2: to really explain it, but I mean it's just you 633 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 2: know it, but I don't know really how to Yeah, 634 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 2: I don't really know together. 635 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 1: I mean I imagine it's you know, it's a it's 636 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 1: a crowning achievements. You know, your first golf course with 637 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,520 Speaker 1: your name. It's got to be something that's kind of crazy. 638 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 1: It's hard to you know process. I'm sure when you 639 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,400 Speaker 1: think back to where you're peign concrete. 640 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:54,880 Speaker 2: Right, yeah, I mean you know to think that, you know, 641 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 2: you you take all those experiences you have and in 642 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:02,440 Speaker 2: all these different sites that you worked on and you 643 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,759 Speaker 2: get a chance to bring all your experiences that you 644 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:10,399 Speaker 2: have to municipal golf course. You know, we were coming 645 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,319 Speaker 2: off of like Habo cliffs. You know, these are top 646 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:15,759 Speaker 2: one hundred golf courses in the world that we're working on, 647 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 2: and we get to bring the experience that we have 648 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,759 Speaker 2: to to municipal golf course, you know, for a community 649 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:28,800 Speaker 2: in Winter Park, Florida. I mean that's you know that 650 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:36,640 Speaker 2: that was a neat opportunity to bring that experience and 651 00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,319 Speaker 2: and that was you know, yeah, I mean I guess 652 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 2: it's you kind of sit back and you kind of 653 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:45,520 Speaker 2: look at that like, you know, wow, you know, to 654 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 2: bring to to to give back in a lot of 655 00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,279 Speaker 2: ways to a game that's you know, given so much 656 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 2: to me, to give back to a community where you know, 657 00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 2: when we're out there first starting the project, you know, 658 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:03,240 Speaker 2: we're watching you know, young, old, you know, blue collar, 659 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,719 Speaker 2: white collar, no collar, you know, out there golfing. You know, 660 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,719 Speaker 2: this is this is the roots of community golf. And 661 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 2: it's like, we can't mess this up. Yeah, we had 662 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:15,799 Speaker 2: the pressure. We had the pressure on us, and then 663 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 2: we also had you know, the golf channel, you know, 664 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,800 Speaker 2: I mean the golf channels right there. You know, Matt Hagerty, 665 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,880 Speaker 2: you know, you got Matt Janella, you got these guys 666 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,720 Speaker 2: that this is their home course. You know, these guys 667 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,400 Speaker 2: drive by this course every day, and you know you 668 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,560 Speaker 2: can't you can't mess this up, you know, and and 669 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,839 Speaker 2: you can't come out here and do everything that you've 670 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:42,680 Speaker 2: always wanted to bill on every golf course. And you 671 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,399 Speaker 2: got to make it, you know, playable, and it's got 672 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,480 Speaker 2: to be affordable and and you know, there's so many 673 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:50,440 Speaker 2: things that go into your mind when you're when you're 674 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,480 Speaker 2: starting a project. You know, when you get to the end, 675 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:59,360 Speaker 2: you're like, did did we achieve our goal? And you know, 676 00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 2: I really think we we we achieved the goal. When 677 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 2: you know you're sitting in the clubhouse and guys are 678 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 2: laughing and you're cheering, and you know they're just having 679 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 2: a blast out there playing fun golf. And they're like, 680 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,040 Speaker 2: you see me carry you know, the trees on number 681 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:18,279 Speaker 2: six to to carry the green? Or can you believe 682 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:20,799 Speaker 2: that bunker shot? Or you know, those type of things. 683 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:22,880 Speaker 2: Are the guys that come into the clubhouse and they're like, 684 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:24,920 Speaker 2: we just played nine, but we want to go out 685 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:29,319 Speaker 2: and play another nine. You know, that's that that's or 686 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,920 Speaker 2: or the or the kid that it's his first first 687 00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,640 Speaker 2: round of golf. You know, a dad and his son, 688 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:38,640 Speaker 2: you know, and the and the and the kids keen 689 00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:42,040 Speaker 2: off off the deck with the driver, you know, and 690 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,279 Speaker 2: and he hits it out there about fifty yards, you know, 691 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:50,279 Speaker 2: to see that, you know, yeah, after you work so 692 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:54,920 Speaker 2: hard to achieve what you know, to grow the game. 693 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:59,480 Speaker 1: So yeah, it's I mean, the I think it's a 694 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:03,040 Speaker 1: it's sort of I'm excited. I'm gonna get to go 695 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:07,080 Speaker 1: down there and play in January and you know, I'll 696 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,320 Speaker 1: put a hole right up. But you know, from everything 697 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:11,919 Speaker 1: I've seen in the pictures you've sent me before and after, 698 00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,719 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a total transformation, and I think you know, 699 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:19,080 Speaker 1: it serves as kind of a blueprint for you know, 700 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:22,799 Speaker 1: community golf and municipalities and you know what you can 701 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:28,440 Speaker 1: do with you know, it's relatively lean budget. But you know, 702 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:32,319 Speaker 1: everybody wants to go with a you know, an established name, 703 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,520 Speaker 1: but a lot of times the best way to go 704 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:36,920 Speaker 1: is to go with the the you know, up and 705 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,239 Speaker 1: coming you know, people that are passionate and that have 706 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,120 Speaker 1: all this. You know, you have worlds of experience and 707 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,080 Speaker 1: you know, have learned from the best in the business, 708 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:49,520 Speaker 1: and giving somebody a shot is so you know, it's 709 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:53,080 Speaker 1: it's they're gonna you know, like they're going to work 710 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,600 Speaker 1: their you know, tails off for the project. And I 711 00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:59,359 Speaker 1: think that's the cool thing about the whole project was that, 712 00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:01,360 Speaker 1: you know, with it with the big names and the 713 00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:05,359 Speaker 1: golf channel involved, that you and Riley and Blake got 714 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,279 Speaker 1: you know, you got to shine when I'm sure you 715 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:11,360 Speaker 1: were up against some bigger name people. 716 00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:16,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I mean it was. It's it's very 717 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:20,720 Speaker 2: humbling too to think that, you know that the city 718 00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:24,719 Speaker 2: put full trust in us. You know, how many how 719 00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,440 Speaker 2: many opportunities where someone gives you that chance, you know, 720 00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:32,440 Speaker 2: so we we trust you. You know that the city 721 00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,560 Speaker 2: never said, you know, well, this is the way we 722 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:39,000 Speaker 2: do it. You know, they you know, the leader, you know, 723 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:42,600 Speaker 2: with the mayor, Steve Leary. I mean you can't I 724 00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 2: can't say enough about that leadership. And in water Park. 725 00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:50,560 Speaker 2: If more governments, in local governments ran like winter Park, 726 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,759 Speaker 2: I mean we'd be we'd be in a whole lot 727 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:58,759 Speaker 2: of better place in this country because with his leadership, 728 00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:02,279 Speaker 2: is is what made that golf course. They put the 729 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:05,920 Speaker 2: trust in us, They they gave us the resources that 730 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:11,760 Speaker 2: we needed to be successful, and you know we uh, 731 00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:15,200 Speaker 2: I really think we delivered for them. And you know 732 00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:17,920 Speaker 2: it's just now. That's the biggest thing is someone puts 733 00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,680 Speaker 2: a trust in us. We're you know, we're gonna we're 734 00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,480 Speaker 2: going to try our best to deliver every time for 735 00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:29,239 Speaker 2: for a client, and you know, that's it's it's it's 736 00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:33,000 Speaker 2: just a really neat story and how it all went down. 737 00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:37,480 Speaker 2: And and I really think that if it's it's kind 738 00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:40,400 Speaker 2: of a blueprint that I hope a lot of unique 739 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,719 Speaker 2: golf courses can can can maybe look to call up 740 00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:46,480 Speaker 2: when a part you know, hey, we have this golf course. 741 00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:51,000 Speaker 2: You know, we're losing money. It's it's it's not going well. 742 00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:52,759 Speaker 2: I mean, I think we're gonna have to sell the 743 00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:54,600 Speaker 2: thing and it's going to turn into a parking lot 744 00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:58,840 Speaker 2: or or condos. What what? What? What did you guys 745 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:02,520 Speaker 2: do here at winn a part? And maybe it might 746 00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:04,600 Speaker 2: save a lot of these golf courses where you know, 747 00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:08,400 Speaker 2: this is where kids learn how to play golf, you know, 748 00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:10,319 Speaker 2: and this is how we're going to grow the game. 749 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:13,279 Speaker 2: So I just hope that a lot of people look 750 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:15,799 Speaker 2: to win a park and can contact you know, the 751 00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:21,279 Speaker 2: task force in the mayor and get the information and 752 00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:25,239 Speaker 2: kind of get that blueprint, and you know, hopefully you know, 753 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:29,799 Speaker 2: if it's us or someone else, you know, it's if 754 00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:34,080 Speaker 2: it's it's just so mini golf can win and grow. 755 00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:38,160 Speaker 1: So yeah, I think it's a it's a core part. 756 00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:40,640 Speaker 1: I grew up playing. I grew up and learned the 757 00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:44,200 Speaker 1: game on a municipal course. So you know, I ride 758 00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,919 Speaker 1: my bike to the golf course with my golf bag 759 00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:49,239 Speaker 1: and just you know, in the summers and spend all 760 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:53,600 Speaker 1: day there. So you know, having a cool place to 761 00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,160 Speaker 1: play would be you know, where you have to hit 762 00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,839 Speaker 1: shots and you learn strategy versus you know, the state 763 00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:02,919 Speaker 1: of most MENI golf courses is just you know, rip 764 00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:08,080 Speaker 1: it and and and chip it. So that I want 765 00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:12,080 Speaker 1: to get some Twitter questions. We got a couple here. 766 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:16,680 Speaker 1: One of them is from a buddy Ors Trevor. Yeah, yeah, 767 00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:21,120 Speaker 1: trev So he wants to know what advice you have 768 00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:23,400 Speaker 1: for young people trying to learn your craft. 769 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,480 Speaker 2: You know, I would say, I mean, in my case, 770 00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:30,880 Speaker 2: you know, I saw a really big benefit and working 771 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:34,200 Speaker 2: for a contractor, like a golf course contractor, you know, 772 00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:36,800 Speaker 2: the chance to kind of get some experience, you know, work, 773 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:40,080 Speaker 2: you know, work a summer for for a golf course 774 00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:43,880 Speaker 2: or local golf course, you know, doing grounds work or 775 00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,880 Speaker 2: or go work for a golf course development company for 776 00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:51,319 Speaker 2: a summer, you know, get get experienced. I would say, 777 00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:55,160 Speaker 2: you know, you just you know, take ownership and work 778 00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:59,399 Speaker 2: hard and don't lean on a shovel, don't don't sit 779 00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:01,760 Speaker 2: down in the bun you know, just just work hard. 780 00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:05,719 Speaker 2: And the people that are you know, in place to 781 00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:10,080 Speaker 2: the leadership will notice that effort and then they might say, hey, 782 00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:13,000 Speaker 2: you know, why don't you hop on this excavator or 783 00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:15,400 Speaker 2: why don't you say I'm why don't you coming on 784 00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:17,440 Speaker 2: Saturday on your day off, I'm gonna teach you how 785 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:19,920 Speaker 2: to run a del you know. I mean, there's more 786 00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:23,600 Speaker 2: of affluence for someone to give you that chance to 787 00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:27,680 Speaker 2: learn another craft. If you're working hard, you know, and 788 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,040 Speaker 2: you're showing that effort, people will make the effort to 789 00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,200 Speaker 2: teach you. And I mean that's the biggest thing for 790 00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:36,200 Speaker 2: me is that you know, I'd love to you know, 791 00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,520 Speaker 2: teach guys how to you know, I've had guys teach me. 792 00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:43,080 Speaker 2: You know, I want to be here if if there's 793 00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:45,400 Speaker 2: people out there that like gave as from the thing, 794 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:47,840 Speaker 2: that give me the chance to to get on a 795 00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:51,480 Speaker 2: piece of equipment or be creative and there's a lot 796 00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:53,239 Speaker 2: of people that have been helped to have given me 797 00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:55,640 Speaker 2: that chance. And you know, I'd love to give that 798 00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:59,160 Speaker 2: chance to anyone that on different projects, if people want 799 00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:02,160 Speaker 2: to come out and and work hard. And so I think, 800 00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:04,239 Speaker 2: you know, first is you know, see if this is 801 00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:06,600 Speaker 2: right for you. I mean, this isn't right for everyone, 802 00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:09,879 Speaker 2: you know. I mean, you know, we're traveling and I'm 803 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,279 Speaker 2: I'm at home, you know, sometimes maybe eighty days a year. 804 00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:15,480 Speaker 2: You know, I'm on the road, you know, away from 805 00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:18,399 Speaker 2: my wife. And you know, I mean, I'm I'm very 806 00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:20,760 Speaker 2: lucky that I have a wife that supports you fully 807 00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:24,759 Speaker 2: and and and loves your traps. But sometimes it's not 808 00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,120 Speaker 2: it's not exactly for everyone, you know. I mean, we're 809 00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,560 Speaker 2: it's kind of a funny business where we're always working 810 00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:34,320 Speaker 2: ourselves into unemployment. We just finish a project and the 811 00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,640 Speaker 2: lune employee, you know. I mean, so it's you know, 812 00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:41,840 Speaker 2: I would just say, have a positive attitude, take ownership 813 00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,759 Speaker 2: about whatever you're doing, and people will give you the 814 00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:51,480 Speaker 2: chance to move up. And and I think that's my 815 00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:57,000 Speaker 2: opinion on my best advice for for how to to learn. 816 00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:01,319 Speaker 1: M It's it's a lot like you know, work hard 817 00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:05,479 Speaker 1: and try and try and be there and be ready. 818 00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:09,000 Speaker 2: I mean, there's just there. There there's no shortcuts, you know. 819 00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:11,719 Speaker 2: I mean when when you try to take a short cut, 820 00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:16,880 Speaker 2: you're going to get found out. I mean, so yeah, 821 00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:22,040 Speaker 2: it's definitely. Ah, it is a fun business. It's very rewarding, 822 00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:26,239 Speaker 2: but it does have its sacrifices. You know, you have 823 00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:32,040 Speaker 2: to realize that you there's a lot of uncertainty if 824 00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,120 Speaker 2: you're looking for a plan on whether it's going to 825 00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:36,960 Speaker 2: be the next day or the next month. You know, 826 00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:40,600 Speaker 2: I don't know what what next next project I'm going 827 00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:42,719 Speaker 2: to end up when I'm after this project, you know, 828 00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:46,200 Speaker 2: and so you never know. So yeah, when you even 829 00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:49,960 Speaker 2: accept the uncertainty, if your person that can do that, 830 00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:52,279 Speaker 2: then this might be the right business. 831 00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:57,359 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's to probably be good for you know, 832 00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:01,400 Speaker 1: anybody that kind of can happy to float, you know. 833 00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:02,160 Speaker 2: Yep. 834 00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:08,799 Speaker 1: Yeah. So we got one from Andy Roderick, who you know, 835 00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:13,960 Speaker 1: he's qualified for the US four ball in the spring, 836 00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:17,240 Speaker 1: so it looks like he's going down to play Dormy 837 00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:20,479 Speaker 1: Club while he's down there, so you know, he wants 838 00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:22,759 Speaker 1: to kind of know what what he can expect from 839 00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,799 Speaker 1: Dormy Club. And you know you having worked on it, 840 00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:28,360 Speaker 1: you know, I played it. I got to played. I 841 00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:32,520 Speaker 1: really it's a great golf course. Would love to hear 842 00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:34,040 Speaker 1: your experience out there. 843 00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:39,080 Speaker 2: Yeah you know, I mean you no, I finished up 844 00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:42,879 Speaker 2: at cir Mountain and then I got sent out there 845 00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:45,520 Speaker 2: for a little while. I was only there for a 846 00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:48,680 Speaker 2: short time. It's kind of was it was kind of 847 00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:52,360 Speaker 2: in the construction phase where you could only work on 848 00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:56,080 Speaker 2: thirty two acres at a time, so you're only building like, 849 00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:58,959 Speaker 2: you know, three holes at the time, then draft those 850 00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:01,360 Speaker 2: and then you can move on to the exception. So 851 00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:04,560 Speaker 2: you know, a lot of that golf course. You know, 852 00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:07,879 Speaker 2: once I left, I didn't really see the rest of it, 853 00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:13,759 Speaker 2: you know, completed. I did have the opportunity which was 854 00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:16,959 Speaker 2: my first you know kind of official court Crenshaw Green 855 00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:19,080 Speaker 2: that I got to build was number seven out there. 856 00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:24,120 Speaker 2: Kind of the reverse were dand AR three, you know, 857 00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:26,480 Speaker 2: fun little shot in there. But I mean, if it's 858 00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:29,000 Speaker 2: a you know, I want, I went, I got. I 859 00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:30,799 Speaker 2: went as an old town. I got a chance to 860 00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,960 Speaker 2: go back there and kind of you know, take a 861 00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:37,759 Speaker 2: little loop and and look at the holes that you 862 00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:40,880 Speaker 2: know that that we're finished. I mean, you just you know, 863 00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:43,120 Speaker 2: you gotta you gotta think about the shots you make 864 00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:47,279 Speaker 2: in there. You know you can make the ground game 865 00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:53,200 Speaker 2: is uh, you know there. I mean it's you know, 866 00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:55,360 Speaker 2: it's just been one of those golf courses that you know, 867 00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:58,040 Speaker 2: has gone through a lot of different transitions, and you know, 868 00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:01,600 Speaker 2: from what I hear from different people, it's, uh, it's 869 00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:05,880 Speaker 2: it's it's back up there. It's and I don't know 870 00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:08,000 Speaker 2: what's uh when you were there, when what was your 871 00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:11,799 Speaker 2: what was your take of of of Dormy Club and 872 00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:12,719 Speaker 2: the conditions? 873 00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:18,880 Speaker 1: And I think it's awesome. It's you got with the 874 00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:24,040 Speaker 1: greens are like are tough? You know they you got 875 00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:26,560 Speaker 1: I forget, I forget what hole was you got that? 876 00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,840 Speaker 1: I really like that part four that has that downhill 877 00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:33,279 Speaker 1: shot with the the waters not in play, but it's 878 00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:35,560 Speaker 1: over to the right and it's got those cool cross 879 00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:40,760 Speaker 1: bunkers coming down. I played four. 880 00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:44,080 Speaker 2: I don't know, yeah, maybe four kind of has the 881 00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:47,120 Speaker 2: ravine and the waters off to the Yeah, you know 882 00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:50,359 Speaker 2: that that's that's a really neat neat meat Bassola. 883 00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:54,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's you know, for me, that was my first 884 00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:57,920 Speaker 1: time playing in North Carolina, and I you know, I 885 00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:01,399 Speaker 1: just the land site and the pines. It's just such 886 00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:05,080 Speaker 1: a unique golf experience for anybody that hasn't been down 887 00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:08,040 Speaker 1: there and played that kind of golf. You know, it 888 00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:11,240 Speaker 1: played firm and fast, you know, the green I loved 889 00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:14,200 Speaker 1: all like the runoff areas, the fairway around the greens. 890 00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:16,920 Speaker 1: That it's one of my favorite features in terms of 891 00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:21,120 Speaker 1: golf courses is having you know ample you know, slopes 892 00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:24,080 Speaker 1: and have that ball run you know, if you miss 893 00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:29,040 Speaker 1: that green, have it run twenty yards and staying fairway 894 00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:31,799 Speaker 1: because I think that it's so cool. It's such a 895 00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:34,880 Speaker 1: unique test and unique shots. Coming back from those. 896 00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:39,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely makes you think about what shot you're taken, 897 00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:41,880 Speaker 2: and they're not just you know, your standard. You know, 898 00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:45,520 Speaker 2: the golf course isn't dictating what you what you have 899 00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:48,879 Speaker 2: to do, which is so great on Court French House 900 00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,880 Speaker 2: site that you know, the golf course isn't going to say, well, 901 00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:54,440 Speaker 2: you got to hit this shot. You know, you have options, 902 00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:56,680 Speaker 2: you know you're going to use every club and you're bad, 903 00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:58,200 Speaker 2: you know, I mean, it's just you know, I mean, 904 00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:02,359 Speaker 2: it's just the great you know characters of a court 905 00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:05,920 Speaker 2: Friendshaw projects. 906 00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:08,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's you know, one of my favorite you know, 907 00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:13,840 Speaker 1: architecture kind of principles is I never think that the 908 00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:17,040 Speaker 1: whole should dictate the type of shot that you have 909 00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:20,200 Speaker 1: to play, you know, where you know, off the t 910 00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:23,640 Speaker 1: a slicer and hit a slice, you know, and there 911 00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:26,400 Speaker 1: isn't all these trees on the left side that that 912 00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:29,920 Speaker 1: don't let them do that, you know, but there is 913 00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:33,400 Speaker 1: a specific way that the golf course should be played, 914 00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:37,279 Speaker 1: you know, where you know certain if you're able to 915 00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:41,840 Speaker 1: hit certain shot shapes, you're rewarded for doing so, but 916 00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:46,439 Speaker 1: you're not, you know, essentially, you know, kindalyzed heavily for 917 00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:51,879 Speaker 1: not being able to hit a specific shape exactly. It's 918 00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:56,480 Speaker 1: it's interesting. It's that you know, there's golf courses and 919 00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:59,400 Speaker 1: just playability is I think the number one thing that 920 00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:03,600 Speaker 1: golf courses need. Yeah, yeah, I mean every type of 921 00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:04,439 Speaker 1: player has fun. 922 00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:08,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean getting getting that short cut you know, 923 00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:10,960 Speaker 2: instead of having rough you know in some of those 924 00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:14,320 Speaker 2: areas between the transitions between a t you know, on 925 00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:16,719 Speaker 2: some of these like short course like Winter Park, where 926 00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:20,000 Speaker 2: you know, before the golf course had rough you know, 927 00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:24,000 Speaker 2: and now we just one cut fair way and dreams. 928 00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:26,480 Speaker 2: So I mean you're seeing the ball run. I mean 929 00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:28,960 Speaker 2: these beginners. You know, even if they top the ball 930 00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:31,879 Speaker 2: and the one burn it down there, they're advancing the ball. 931 00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:35,120 Speaker 2: They're enjoying it. You know when you when you put 932 00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:37,759 Speaker 2: a bunker in front of them or or things like 933 00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:41,440 Speaker 2: that rough and you just get you know, it gets frustrated, 934 00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:44,960 Speaker 2: you know. And yeah, and and I think that's I 935 00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:46,920 Speaker 2: think that's one thing. You know, get get rid of 936 00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:50,160 Speaker 2: that rough, you know, cut it down shoulder and let 937 00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:53,280 Speaker 2: people enjoy the game. Don't don't penalize everyone. 938 00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:56,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you know, for the better players, you 939 00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:59,960 Speaker 1: make it about angles, you know, you make it yep. Yeah, 940 00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:02,759 Speaker 1: you make it so that you know, you want to 941 00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:05,360 Speaker 1: be on the right side of the fairway and maybe 942 00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:07,919 Speaker 1: you have you know, you have a bunker over there 943 00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:09,719 Speaker 1: that you know only they can get to. 944 00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:12,200 Speaker 2: I think that's exactly. 945 00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:17,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, you make it and that's the strategy. No, no, 946 00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:18,120 Speaker 1: go for. 947 00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:19,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I mean that's I mean, that's one thing 948 00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:21,440 Speaker 2: I guess, you know, kind of going back to the 949 00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:23,839 Speaker 2: winter Park thing, I mean, you know, we were we 950 00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:26,400 Speaker 2: were really stuck and limited because we had roads and 951 00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:28,479 Speaker 2: we had a ringing, we had we had different things, 952 00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:31,279 Speaker 2: but we we had to figure out ways to make 953 00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:35,640 Speaker 2: it challenging for you know, the low handicapper. You know, 954 00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:39,560 Speaker 2: how is he gonna you know, challenge this person, but 955 00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:44,359 Speaker 2: yet not challenge you know, the high handicappers. So I mean, 956 00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:48,000 Speaker 2: we looked at areas where we still different sets of 957 00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:51,399 Speaker 2: teas that angled away from bunkers. You know that if 958 00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:53,680 Speaker 2: this guy, if he carries a bunker, then he's gonna 959 00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:56,920 Speaker 2: get shaped, you know. But if this dinner player, that 960 00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:59,440 Speaker 2: buffer isn't even in play because the angle will be 961 00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,480 Speaker 2: set the you know, just kind of keeping you know, 962 00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:06,439 Speaker 2: that in mind. And there are different angles and risk 963 00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:09,239 Speaker 2: reward that you can put into a golf course that 964 00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:11,880 Speaker 2: you know, I mean, as the person gets furder in 965 00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:14,759 Speaker 2: their golf games and they start moving back to the further, 966 00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:16,640 Speaker 2: you know, they kind of move back to this season 967 00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:19,239 Speaker 2: they you know, I mean even I think I think 968 00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:21,200 Speaker 2: the cool thing about Winter Park is what we've seen 969 00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:24,040 Speaker 2: is that even when they shift the keys from not 970 00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:25,839 Speaker 2: the back kee and they kind of move it up 971 00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:27,520 Speaker 2: and then some of the as you've been playing the 972 00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:29,840 Speaker 2: golf course every day, like wow, you know, this completely 973 00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:32,719 Speaker 2: changes the whole and this is new and it's neat, 974 00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:33,520 Speaker 2: you know, so. 975 00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:39,480 Speaker 1: Factoring in that, yeah, I mean it's it's kind of 976 00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:42,080 Speaker 1: fun sometimes to play golf courses. Like, you know, I 977 00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:45,320 Speaker 1: play the back tis almost everywhere I go. But the 978 00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:48,080 Speaker 1: thing I used to like to do and a golf 979 00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:50,240 Speaker 1: course I played a lot is I'd play the front 980 00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:55,080 Speaker 1: piece like the lady's teeth and see how low I 981 00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:58,520 Speaker 1: could shoot. And you know, it's actually kind of like 982 00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:01,759 Speaker 1: a fun, cool extra size. I mean, like you think, 983 00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:04,200 Speaker 1: you know, but if it makes you really work on 984 00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:07,040 Speaker 1: your Like you know, you're driving up by greens, all 985 00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:08,800 Speaker 1: of a sudden, you have to work on your wedges 986 00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:12,040 Speaker 1: and you're in places that you're never in before, and 987 00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:14,279 Speaker 1: you know, it's just a fun way to change things up. 988 00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:17,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that's one thing that we kind of 989 00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:19,080 Speaker 2: you know, one of the parts that we wanted to kind 990 00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:21,400 Speaker 2: of get people to do is, you know, go play 991 00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:24,919 Speaker 2: for the pack and play your second nine and play 992 00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:27,640 Speaker 2: from the four, you know, and then you're playing mating 993 00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:31,640 Speaker 2: holes and it's got different shots, it's got different challenges, 994 00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:34,360 Speaker 2: but it's got it makes you think in different ways, 995 00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:36,680 Speaker 2: you know. So it's like you get your full eighteen in, 996 00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:40,919 Speaker 2: but you're playing it from different angles and in different feats. 997 00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:46,400 Speaker 1: All right, So our last question here is from Robbie 998 00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:50,560 Speaker 1: Vogel and it's about Cabot. He played it in June 999 00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:54,719 Speaker 1: and he thought it was incredible. He's wondering if there's 1000 00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:59,400 Speaker 1: any potential or land for a third course, and how 1001 00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:02,839 Speaker 1: much better do you expect the Cliffs course to get 1002 00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:05,920 Speaker 1: as it matures. 1003 00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:07,800 Speaker 2: You know, I mean you never know. I mean you 1004 00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:11,400 Speaker 2: got the you got the Kaiser factor, you know, my Kayser, 1005 00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:14,319 Speaker 2: you got you know, think klandor up there. I mean, 1006 00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:16,719 Speaker 2: you just never know what they what they have up 1007 00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:20,120 Speaker 2: there sweep you know. Sometimes you know, I could see 1008 00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:25,040 Speaker 2: a short course, you know, possibly being there, you know, 1009 00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:30,320 Speaker 2: I mean I I see growth for you know, another 1010 00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:33,319 Speaker 2: golf course to kind of pull people, to kind of 1011 00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:37,240 Speaker 2: be like a golf Cabot Trail type thing to Ugland people. 1012 00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:40,319 Speaker 2: I mean, that's that whole area out there. Just but 1013 00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:43,200 Speaker 2: if you can go in the Cabot Trail play you 1014 00:56:43,239 --> 00:56:46,719 Speaker 2: know links, you know, you play Cabot Cliffs, you go 1015 00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:49,879 Speaker 2: to Highlands, you know, and then another golf course, I mean, 1016 00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:53,440 Speaker 2: that's there's the there. There's not many places like that 1017 00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:56,279 Speaker 2: where you could play that high quality golf. So I 1018 00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:59,480 Speaker 2: see that there'll be definitely potential for from more golf 1019 00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:06,719 Speaker 2: up there and for every course. Some Yeah, it just 1020 00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:09,400 Speaker 2: takes it takes time. You know, it will take a 1021 00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:12,040 Speaker 2: few more years, you know. I mean the thing with 1022 00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:15,200 Speaker 2: with Cliffs is it's so popular that you've got so 1023 00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:18,000 Speaker 2: many people coming there that you just don't want to 1024 00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:20,920 Speaker 2: wear it out. You know, you got the factor all 1025 00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:23,160 Speaker 2: the people playing, but then you got all the caddies 1026 00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:25,160 Speaker 2: on top of it. You think about how much foot 1027 00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:29,320 Speaker 2: traffic you know, you're putting on those greens and around 1028 00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:34,800 Speaker 2: the greens. You know, it's but also you're trying to 1029 00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:38,000 Speaker 2: get that much golf in a small window of the 1030 00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:40,800 Speaker 2: time that you have to actually get golf out there 1031 00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:45,480 Speaker 2: and Inverness. So I mean it's always as it's a 1032 00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:50,600 Speaker 2: double edged sort there because yeah, you know you want 1033 00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:52,360 Speaker 2: to bring people in and get them out there and 1034 00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:55,040 Speaker 2: enjoy it, but yet you don't want to you don't 1035 00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:58,840 Speaker 2: want to wear it out. But I think it really 1036 00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:01,480 Speaker 2: is the winters. You know, how the winter goes, how 1037 00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:06,680 Speaker 2: how the course winters. If they get snow covered, they 1038 00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:10,440 Speaker 2: get moisture, you know, how those greens come out of 1039 00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:13,360 Speaker 2: the winter the next year. There's always a challenge. 1040 00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:18,200 Speaker 1: So yeah, I bet that had some interesting constraints to 1041 00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:21,560 Speaker 1: building it. I bet you had a lot of cold 1042 00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:23,320 Speaker 1: days on a dozer out there. 1043 00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:29,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it was that. That's probably the most 1044 00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:33,280 Speaker 2: challenging project I've ever worked on, you know. I mean 1045 00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:36,760 Speaker 2: you have a small window of time, you know, and 1046 00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:40,080 Speaker 2: and and all the guys that work on that project 1047 00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:42,800 Speaker 2: just gave their heart and and and made a bunch 1048 00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:47,400 Speaker 2: of sacrifices to get that get that project to where 1049 00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:50,760 Speaker 2: it is now. I mean to debut at I don't know, 1050 00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:53,240 Speaker 2: it was nineteen in the world or or some I 1051 00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:56,520 Speaker 2: don't know, some way up there on the list. I mean, 1052 00:58:56,760 --> 00:58:59,000 Speaker 2: a lot of guys put their hearts into making that 1053 00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:02,200 Speaker 2: project happen. And it was tough days, I'll tell you 1054 00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:05,840 Speaker 2: it was. It tests you in every which way, and 1055 00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:09,360 Speaker 2: just when you think you're getting it, you know, it 1056 00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:12,800 Speaker 2: would you know, mother nature would come down and and 1057 00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:15,040 Speaker 2: and beat you down. You know. It was a it 1058 00:59:15,080 --> 00:59:19,560 Speaker 2: was a very uh, very tough projects are very rewarding, 1059 00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:24,560 Speaker 2: and I'm just glad that you know, people aren't enjoying it. 1060 00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:29,040 Speaker 2: And you know, Lynks is you know, what Ross Rob's 1061 00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:34,040 Speaker 2: done out there is an awesome force. You know, It's 1062 00:59:34,560 --> 00:59:38,640 Speaker 2: it's cool that you know, building Ben and and Rod. 1063 00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:41,560 Speaker 2: All these guys you know, get get the work, you know, 1064 00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:44,520 Speaker 2: close together on the project like that. So and to 1065 00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:48,360 Speaker 2: have Rod work on cliffs too, you know, you know, 1066 00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:50,280 Speaker 2: you kind of dig into the roots of you know, 1067 00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:54,240 Speaker 2: these guys, you know, like doing Bill sitting and Rod 1068 00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:56,520 Speaker 2: and Rob was working at a golf course with them, 1069 00:59:56,520 --> 00:59:58,960 Speaker 2: and they're sitting there, you know, talking about maybe some 1070 00:59:59,120 --> 01:00:02,760 Speaker 2: day building golf courses and then you know, you fast forward, 1071 01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:05,959 Speaker 2: you know, thirty years thereon Rod got a golf course 1072 01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:08,200 Speaker 2: that he designed and then build build a golf course 1073 01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:10,480 Speaker 2: right next hill. I mean, it's just you know, just cool, 1074 01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:17,400 Speaker 2: cool stories. You could probably still hours of podcasts about, 1075 01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:21,400 Speaker 2: you know, with with with Bill and Ben and day 1076 01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:22,480 Speaker 2: back some stories. 1077 01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:28,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty cool. I mean, I'm I'm really excited 1078 01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:33,720 Speaker 1: to see your career progress in the coming years and 1079 01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:37,160 Speaker 1: hopefully we'll get you on here, you know, a bunch 1080 01:00:37,240 --> 01:00:42,120 Speaker 1: more and talk about some more cool projects. But really 1081 01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:46,040 Speaker 1: appreciate all the time. I mean, you gave us a 1082 01:00:46,080 --> 01:00:50,000 Speaker 1: good hour plus and I'm sure you had a long 1083 01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:52,920 Speaker 1: day out on the ridge at the ridge course at 1084 01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:56,360 Speaker 1: uh six Peter Lodge and you probably got an early 1085 01:00:56,440 --> 01:00:57,200 Speaker 1: morning tomorrow. 1086 01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:01,720 Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, and uh, you know, I just. 1087 01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:03,600 Speaker 2: Want to think, you know, thank all the listeners too, 1088 01:01:03,720 --> 01:01:05,680 Speaker 2: you know. I mean, you know, this is all kind 1089 01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:08,520 Speaker 2: of new for me that to kind of be out there, 1090 01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:13,240 Speaker 2: you know, to talk about you know what now It's 1091 01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:15,480 Speaker 2: it's sometimes hard for me to talk about what I 1092 01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:18,640 Speaker 2: do because I don't want it to to come across 1093 01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:21,720 Speaker 2: as you know, cocky or have an ego or anything 1094 01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:25,160 Speaker 2: like that. I mean, it's just you know, we're just 1095 01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:28,960 Speaker 2: you know, guys that are really passionate about what we 1096 01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:32,120 Speaker 2: do and and really want to work with, you know, 1097 01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:35,320 Speaker 2: people that enjoy the game, and you know, we just 1098 01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:37,600 Speaker 2: want to work with cool people and build cool golf. 1099 01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:40,400 Speaker 2: I mean, if we can do that, then you know, 1100 01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:44,000 Speaker 2: golf will win. And you know it's it's not about 1101 01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:46,920 Speaker 2: it's not about the name of who the designer is 1102 01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:49,400 Speaker 2: or or or who that is. I mean, if it 1103 01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:52,000 Speaker 2: could be more about the golf course and and what 1104 01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:55,160 Speaker 2: that does for a community or the people in that area. 1105 01:01:55,360 --> 01:02:00,200 Speaker 2: So yeah, it's I just really appreciate you know, you 1106 01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:03,200 Speaker 2: you're having me on here. It's always nice to meet 1107 01:02:03,240 --> 01:02:06,520 Speaker 2: people that are passionate about you know, architecture and and 1108 01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:09,600 Speaker 2: find new ways to kind of get the information out 1109 01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:12,960 Speaker 2: to people. And you know, thanks, thanks again for having 1110 01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:14,840 Speaker 2: me on here. I don't hope I didn't mess it 1111 01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:18,680 Speaker 2: up too much. And my phone dropped out dropped out. 1112 01:02:18,680 --> 01:02:22,840 Speaker 3: There a couple of times. So this will be this 1113 01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:26,760 Speaker 3: will be your last. Uh you know, we'll kind of. 1114 01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:28,680 Speaker 3: I know that you're up in your game on the 1115 01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:31,560 Speaker 3: podcast thing, so I guess you can go out with 1116 01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:32,919 Speaker 3: a bang on this one thing. 1117 01:02:33,720 --> 01:02:37,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, for everybody out there, I want to say this 1118 01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:42,360 Speaker 1: is the last, the last podcast without a real microphone. 1119 01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:46,840 Speaker 1: So the podcast is and the next thing we're gonna 1120 01:02:46,840 --> 01:02:49,800 Speaker 1: work on. We're gonna get some entrance music. So yeah, 1121 01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:52,960 Speaker 1: the podcast, but I don't know if we'll get a 1122 01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:57,600 Speaker 1: better guy. So I appreciate the time, Keith, and uh 1123 01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:02,360 Speaker 1: we'll talk soon. Okay, thank you, thanks like you, thank you. 1124 01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:04,360 Speaker 2: M