Speaker 1: Pod Meets World Live presented by our pals at Hyundai
Speaker 1: is right around the corner, and no matter where you live,
Speaker 1: you can join us and watch the stream. We're bringing
Speaker 1: the bullies together for the first time in thirty years.
Speaker 1: From the moment we interviewed them, I knew we wanted
Speaker 1: to make it happen. So many of you asked for it,
Speaker 1: and our dreams are coming true. We are going to
Speaker 1: see them reunited on stage and all of you can
Speaker 1: witness it with us. So our stream is going to
Speaker 1: be available on May first. Will where can people go.
Speaker 2: They can go to moment dot Co slash Pod meets World.
Speaker 2: And I can't believe that we actually pulled this off.
Speaker 2: This wee I can't really really cool. I can't wait.
Speaker 1: I really the number one thing I'm looking forward to,
Speaker 1: and there are so many things I'm looking forward to.
Speaker 1: The fact that it's number one is pretty special.
Speaker 2: That's pretty awesome. Because again, when you go from there
Speaker 2: and you've also got Betsy Randall coming in, You've got
Speaker 2: Lisa Lowly thing. I mean, this is insane. It is
Speaker 2: going to be such an awesome show.
Speaker 1: I can also everyone's favorite Mister Turner is going to
Speaker 1: be there, mister Anthony Tyler Quinn, So I promise you
Speaker 1: you're not going to want to miss it again. You
Speaker 1: can go to moment dot Co slash podmeets World and
Speaker 1: you can get your ticket for the stream, which becomes
Speaker 1: available on May first, and you will have seven days
Speaker 1: to watch it after that, so no real rush to
Speaker 1: see it that day on May first.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I didn't mention Tony because I just can't. I
Speaker 2: can't with all these people. I can't do it anymore.
Speaker 2: There's too much I've got. My head's gonna explode. I
Speaker 2: can't wait.
Speaker 3: Rider.
Speaker 2: After much shaming, and let's be honest with each other,
Speaker 2: as we've been friends for so long, that's what it's been.
Speaker 2: After much horrible shaming coming from you. This morning, I
Speaker 2: purchased a thin, small wallet.
Speaker 3: Oh yes, thank you. I couldn't couldn't take it because
Speaker 3: stands a wallet like like you know, three hundred or
Speaker 3: three thousand page novel size wallet and everything in there.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, it was around Yeah please please what membership?
Speaker 3: But Blockbuster, do you still yours?
Speaker 2: Is gone? Thank you. Blockbuster is responsible for my marriage,
Speaker 2: by the way, literally responsible for my marriage. So let's
Speaker 2: have we not.
Speaker 3: Have we not talked about this.
Speaker 2: No, So Sue and I dated right after Sadness. No,
Speaker 2: I know, I love Blockbuster. I love it.
Speaker 3: I hope your marriage is not based on It's based
Speaker 3: on trust and mutual respect. It's a lot of other things.
Speaker 2: It's based on Blockbuster. We got the love and the trust.
Speaker 2: That's the easy part, the getting films nowadays. No, so
Speaker 2: Sue and I dated start dated first right after boy
Speaker 2: me t World and the timing just wasn't right, and
Speaker 2: we met again. I mean we stayed friendly for years,
Speaker 2: but then really met again in the parking lot in
Speaker 2: front of Blockbuster because I was going to return a movie.
Speaker 2: And when we met again, I asked her out and
Speaker 2: we've been together ever since. So five years after I
Speaker 2: met her in front.
Speaker 3: Of me were returning?
Speaker 2: I don't, but I think it was a Tuesday, because
Speaker 2: that's when the new movies come out, or did I
Speaker 2: proposed to her five years later on that same spot
Speaker 2: where the Blockbuster used to be in our in our
Speaker 2: Ralph slot, not the rot up. Yes, so that I
Speaker 2: proposed to see you on the same spot. Kin goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: But so Blockbuster without Blockbuster, without me returning that movie?
Speaker 2: Who knows?
Speaker 3: So see this is why we need video stores or
Speaker 3: great places to go.
Speaker 1: May I interest you in coming to shop at the
Speaker 1: DVD of Husband Jensen car producer of this podcast.
Speaker 2: Yeah we got with my house is the same and
Speaker 2: I love it. Or his alphabetical alphabetical.
Speaker 1: Yeah, his or alphabetical and he's yeah, it's yeah, that's
Speaker 1: how they should be. Okay, right, whatever you guys say.
Speaker 3: So you've gone to a slim wallet.
Speaker 2: I've got how many slim wallet?
Speaker 3: How many things do you have in there? Now?
Speaker 2: Twelve? But no, no, I just ordered it this morning. It
Speaker 2: carries twelve cards, but that's including like my license, and
Speaker 2: you know, I have a card to get into this.
Speaker 2: I have a priority passed for the airport. I have
Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah blah. So and then I have
Speaker 2: like two credit cards, my last card, like I know,
Speaker 2: your weirdest card, my weirdest card. Oh that's a tough question.
Speaker 2: I found two debit cards from years ago that I'd
Speaker 2: never activated from a bank I did not know I
Speaker 2: was part of.
Speaker 4: Do you have accounts there?
Speaker 2: I don't know. But I have a debit card with
Speaker 2: the sticker still on it, like.
Speaker 3: Five dollars in your jacket pocket. Will's going to discover
Speaker 3: I have ten?
Speaker 2: Seriously, I was seriously that, but no I do. I
Speaker 2: I kept But then I have things like so the
Speaker 2: first again sentimental. When I moved to California when I
Speaker 2: was sixteen, my mom hand wrote me a note about
Speaker 2: how much she loved me and how proud she was
Speaker 2: of me. And I still have that in my wallet,
Speaker 2: like I carry that with me everywhere.
Speaker 3: Oh, I just had a memory, Will of your original
Speaker 3: driver's license? You kept your hat on?
Speaker 2: Yeah, they didn't say anything. Ever seen a driver's license
Speaker 2: with a baseball hat? I remember?
Speaker 3: Do you still have that driver's license? No? No things.
Speaker 2: Do you remember your driver's test? Because my driver's test
Speaker 2: from the time I got into the car to the
Speaker 2: time I parked the car to be the test being done,
Speaker 2: it was less than ninety seconds.
Speaker 3: Yeah, my driver's test was pretty short, I remember, but.
Speaker 4: Mine was not. I had to get on the freeway
Speaker 4: and get off the freeway.
Speaker 2: You had a freeway drive, man, that's different.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we had it in La.
Speaker 2: Navigate the cows. And did you do years in La
Speaker 2: or up north?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: No, I did mine up north because it was year
Speaker 3: is better up there because if you did in La,
Speaker 3: you might have to get on the free So I
Speaker 3: did it up in Santa Rosa.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I have one other quick thing I want
Speaker 2: to talk about because Danielle you said something that got
Speaker 2: me to thinking, Okay, you hate it when I do that.
Speaker 2: I know you said, and it's something that I think
Speaker 2: we're going to talk about a little bit today. But
Speaker 2: you said that when we were talking about ben about
Speaker 2: being you know, defined as what you are when you're
Speaker 2: a child. Can you think of anything other than say
Speaker 2: actor or athlete where you are really defined by what
Speaker 2: you did when you were a kid, I mean, any
Speaker 2: other profession or anything that because you don't work so.
Speaker 1: But there are like athletics like, for example, you could
Speaker 1: be a cheerleader in school and then or a gym
Speaker 1: like for example, my cousin was an incredible gymnast growing up.
Speaker 1: Like I understand when I said once, well I was
Speaker 1: a gymnast before I started acting, and my mom said, no,
Speaker 1: you took gymnastics.
Speaker 3: A gymnast accomplishment exactly.
Speaker 1: There is a difference between I take gymnastics classes and
Speaker 1: I am actually a gymnast. My cousin was a gymnast
Speaker 1: and she did it from the time she was very
Speaker 1: young all the way through school, and it was like
Speaker 1: there was this anticipation of like, is she going to
Speaker 1: go to the Olympics? Is she going to you know,
Speaker 1: do it collegiately? And then you have this like kind
Speaker 1: of thing on you, like, well what do you do now?
Speaker 3: You know, like status, it's not about the activity because
Speaker 3: you know I talked about you know when in college
Speaker 3: I was friends with Josh Waitskin and it was chess, right,
Speaker 3: like he was the chess and like and you know whatever,
Speaker 3: you if you excel at anything at at an early
Speaker 3: age and you reach a certain level of status, whether
Speaker 3: that's a sport or a game or anything, I think
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: That definds you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, ends up being it just it just yeah, you
Speaker 3: spread your your status gets so uh, you know spread
Speaker 3: to the world that people end up defining you buy
Speaker 3: that identity whatever that is, or just.
Speaker 4: Being incredibly smart or a class clown or not being
Speaker 4: the smartest one in your family or like those things.
Speaker 2: Those those things are me.
Speaker 3: But I feel like those things happen on a like
Speaker 3: an interpersonal local basis. Yeah, like a local Like that's
Speaker 3: totally fine. And I think people are much more willing
Speaker 3: to forgive those things or to let you outgrow those
Speaker 3: things when you actually achieve status in a public mindset,
Speaker 3: which is you know, I guess nowadays more possible with
Speaker 3: social media for everybody, right, But yeah, I think that
Speaker 3: there's a certain degree of like when you reach a
Speaker 3: certain notoriety that it it becomes.
Speaker 1: Different talking about it in a way that is relatable
Speaker 1: for every person, because yes, you're right, there is a
Speaker 1: different there's a different echelon of it, which is like, well,
Speaker 1: now the public or a majority of the world or
Speaker 1: country knows me as this thing, and now they want
Speaker 1: to lock me in this thing. But literally, I think
Speaker 1: every person has a certain that goes through a version
Speaker 1: of that. Well, they feel like they are you know,
Speaker 1: well I was the smartest one in my school, and
Speaker 1: now I don't have a job that people would assume
Speaker 1: that I should have, And so they feel this like
Speaker 1: they feel a sense of failure if they don't live
Speaker 1: up to expectations that maybe were placed on them or
Speaker 1: that they set as as children. I take it back,
Speaker 1: you can't set an expert. You can't do it as
Speaker 1: a child. Other people put it on you as a child.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but It's one of those things like I think
Speaker 2: about the people that have have done were very successful
Speaker 2: in this industry as children and then moved on and
Speaker 2: had great careers doing other things. Like I think of
Speaker 2: like Stacy Keenan, who's one of the biggest prosecutors I
Speaker 2: think out here in Los Angeles now, and Josh Saviano
Speaker 2: from Wonder Years, I think also went off became a lawyer.
Speaker 2: They're they're very successful in other careers, and I think
Speaker 2: if you would talk to them, there's still a sense
Speaker 2: of people like, oh, that's what you're doing now you
Speaker 2: know where It's like you're now, Oh, I guess the
Speaker 2: acting thing didn't work out. It's like I'm a powerful attorney.
Speaker 2: I acted as a kid, and now I have this
Speaker 2: other But there's always that sense of like, oh, okay,
Speaker 2: I was just wondering what if there was anything else
Speaker 2: of it?
Speaker 3: But you're right, well, you know, I actually I have
Speaker 3: a weird react. I've been having a weird reaction to
Speaker 3: kihe Kwan's winning the Academy Award because on one hand,
Speaker 3: I am so happy because I think he is phenomenal
Speaker 3: and I've always loved him and I always, you know,
Speaker 3: thought he was a great actor, and when I watched
Speaker 3: the movie, I was like, oh, there, it is like
Speaker 3: there is an incredible performer doing his thing, but there's
Speaker 3: something in the narrative of his sort of like I'm
Speaker 3: still here and like this is what I needed all
Speaker 3: this time. That's a little bit of a bummer to me,
Speaker 3: because it's like the goal should not be you didn't
Speaker 3: exist until you came back into the public and won
Speaker 3: the Academy Award. Like maybe I would, I would appreciate
Speaker 3: the narrative being I've been living an awesome life this
Speaker 3: entire time, and it's just interesting to me that, you know.
Speaker 3: I mean, he's obviously is just enjoying himself, so I'm
Speaker 3: not blaming him, but the media narrative that is sort
Speaker 3: of like he went away and he and Brandan Fraser
Speaker 3: disappeared and now they've come back and accomplish something again
Speaker 3: that makes their lives worth notice, and it's a little
Speaker 3: bit of a bummer. I'm like, no, I think the
Speaker 3: conversation should be they've always been able to live full,
Speaker 3: fully realized lives, and we're maybe we should have been
Speaker 3: celebrating them this entire time, and maybe not just like now,
Speaker 3: you know, putting them back on a pedestal and saying
Speaker 3: all right, yeah, came back, you did it. You know,
Speaker 3: screw all those other you know people who's doing make
Speaker 3: it here.
Speaker 4: That is also just a criticism of award culture, you know,
Speaker 4: the idea.
Speaker 3: Of in status recognition, yes this week, you're huge.
Speaker 1: Next week, that the work you're doing or the work
Speaker 1: you did only mean something when everyone collectively says, fine,
Speaker 1: the work you're doing means something.
Speaker 2: There's also something about rich, beautiful people getting together to
Speaker 2: pat themselves on the back that just I find dicky.
Speaker 1: I I don't like it either. I don't like it either,
Speaker 1: but I was nominated for me and I went and
Speaker 1: I wanted to win.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think it's very important to have cultural prestige. Like,
Speaker 3: I think it's nice to have because otherwise it's just
Speaker 3: about money and box office like and I think that
Speaker 3: that is right. But that's what I mean, Like, I
Speaker 3: feel like the point of any awards ceremony is to
Speaker 3: put it into the hands of the people with that
Speaker 3: work within the industry, like or not, or critics right
Speaker 3: like you have. But I think that it's important to
Speaker 3: have other measures of success beyond just making money and
Speaker 3: being being, you know, the biggest box office number. So
Speaker 3: I think that the Academy Awards are really great for that,
Speaker 3: and I think what I love about it is that
Speaker 3: the people are nominated within their categories by their peers,
Speaker 3: by people who are accomplished in that. And I think
Speaker 3: for the most part, the Academy Awards usually I think
Speaker 3: the nominations get it pretty right. Like I think that
Speaker 3: they tend to have a good, good slate of films
Speaker 3: from the years.
Speaker 2: Not for me, it's never those award shows have never
Speaker 2: been for me.
Speaker 1: Well, I'd like to jump into our episode because I'm
Speaker 1: really excited about this one.
Speaker 4: So welcome to Pod meets World.
Speaker 2: I'm Daniel Fischl, I'm right or Strong, and I'm Wilfredell.
Speaker 1: So we have mentioned it on the show a few times,
Speaker 1: sometimes in a jokey way, like, oh, you know what
Speaker 1: would be cool is if we did this and here
Speaker 1: we are, so do we already regret saying that maybe
Speaker 1: we would bring a therapist on to talk to us about.
Speaker 2: I'm keeping my mind. I'm keeping an open mind. That's
Speaker 2: all I can say. I'm keeping an open mind. Good.
Speaker 1: Well, that brings me to giving you a little bit
Speaker 1: of backstory on Kira Muscara, who is a licensed clinical
Speaker 1: social worker. She is a former actor turned therapist specializing
Speaker 1: in well being for actors, female empowerment, and friendship dynamics.
Speaker 1: She holds a BFA in acting from NYU Tish School
Speaker 1: of the Arts and a master Yes and a Master
Speaker 1: of Science in Social Work for Columbia University.
Speaker 3: Oh, I like that's school. Yes, you do.
Speaker 4: She's basically filming it with us.
Speaker 2: Actually, Hogwarts was my safety school. That's a whole different thing.
Speaker 1: Kira currently works in private practice providing individual psychotherapy consulting
Speaker 1: and is hired for speaking engagements in educational and entertainment spaces.
Speaker 1: And now, after listening to every single episode of our
Speaker 1: podcast episodes, she is going to dissect the inner and
Speaker 1: outer thoughts of three former child stars on pod Meats World.
Speaker 1: So let's please welcome Kira Mascara. Yeah, guys, what if
Speaker 1: I said please welcome Kira.
Speaker 4: And then it was Dusty that would surprise he's here
Speaker 4: for all of the unpackings.
Speaker 2: Exactly.
Speaker 4: Well, thank you Kira for being here with us.
Speaker 1: And my first question is that we are now more
Speaker 1: more than halfway through season two of our podcast and
Speaker 1: of Boy meets world, and this is you know, probably
Speaker 1: something we should have asked many months ago, but was
Speaker 1: analyzing ourselves as teens thirty years later for thousands of strangers.
Speaker 4: A bad idea, I would say, short answer.
Speaker 2: No, okay, been amazing.
Speaker 5: I think something that's so important when we're looking at
Speaker 5: childhood and adolescent memories. We store the information through the
Speaker 5: lens of a child or adolescent, and so it's so
Speaker 5: important to unpack our experiences from that time through an
Speaker 5: adult lens so that we can apply what we know
Speaker 5: as adults to those experiences and those memories.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, Yeah, that's.
Speaker 1: Such a that's such a concise way of saying exactly
Speaker 1: what we have been have been feeling.
Speaker 5: Yes, thank you so much, but yet to like, as adults,
Speaker 5: we have tools, we have support systems to turn to,
Speaker 5: we have just perspective, and I think bringing all of
Speaker 5: that to a childhood or adolescent memory can kind of
Speaker 5: help us see it in a different way and store
Speaker 5: it in a different place in our body and our
Speaker 5: mind and our soul.
Speaker 4: Wow, no, wonder, this is all felt so healing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, why does Ryder like to steal so much?
Speaker 3: Dude?
Speaker 4: That might be a whole other episode she wasn't aware
Speaker 4: of that backstory.
Speaker 3: I think what's weird about our experience and what we're
Speaker 3: doing here is that we have all of this actual
Speaker 3: video footage.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: So it's like I and I, you know, I've talked
Speaker 3: about my insecurities just watching myself, but also just looking
Speaker 3: at even your guys' faces, and how you know, something
Speaker 3: starts happening in my brain when I'm watching my face
Speaker 3: and our faces. It's like it takes me right back.
Speaker 3: And so it's very weird to not only be processing
Speaker 3: these experiences narratively together as a team, like which is
Speaker 3: very therapeutic, right, psychotherapeutic to go back and talk it through,
Speaker 3: we also have this like archival footage of us performing.
Speaker 3: It's very bizarre and it's a unique experience, definitely, And.
Speaker 5: I think what's important about you guys doing it publicly
Speaker 5: because all that unpacking could be done behind the scenes
Speaker 5: in your private lives and your own therapy, but doing
Speaker 5: it publicly, what you guys have spoken about is how
Speaker 5: it really allows you to take ownership of the experience
Speaker 5: and ownership of who you are as people behind the characters.
Speaker 1: Right, Yes, that is very true question for you because
Speaker 1: you work a lot with actors. You specifically work with actors.
Speaker 1: You're an actor or former actor yourself, I am, Yeah,
Speaker 1: what issues do you find yourself dealing with more with
Speaker 1: people from that profession than maybe other professions.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a great question. I think so much of
Speaker 5: it is self esteem, to be honest, to keep it real, general,
Speaker 5: it's a lot of self esteem work and a lot
Speaker 5: of work I think, especially with people who were actors
Speaker 5: at a young age, is recognizing the parts of themselves
Speaker 5: that needed to come forward, maybe at a younger age
Speaker 5: than they would have otherwise, because they're working in this
Speaker 5: kind of world and working in this environment that is
Speaker 5: so adult and so so bizarre. To be frank, I mean,
Speaker 5: it requires you to be the instrument yourself. There's no
Speaker 5: separation between you and your work, and I think a
Speaker 5: lot of the work with actors can be helping them
Speaker 5: unblur those lines, if that makes sense.
Speaker 4: Wow, Kira, let's jump into your questions.
Speaker 1: I have so many things I could ask you, but
Speaker 1: I know that you have some things you'd like to
Speaker 1: talk to us about, so let's jump in with what you'd.
Speaker 4: Like to know.
Speaker 3: Awesome.
Speaker 5: Well, I think my first question is I would love
Speaker 5: to know during the time of filming the show. Did
Speaker 5: any of you have therapists at that time?
Speaker 4: Great question.
Speaker 2: I did not.
Speaker 3: I did not.
Speaker 2: No, I didn't at the time.
Speaker 4: Right, well, when did you start therapy?
Speaker 2: I started therapy when I realized I needed it with
Speaker 2: my anxiety. So it was I think it was probably
Speaker 2: it was probably towards the end of the show, you know,
Speaker 2: maybe ninety nine, two thousand, like.
Speaker 3: The very while the show was going.
Speaker 2: I don't I can't remember. I don't think it was
Speaker 2: actually think, I don't think it.
Speaker 3: Was the show. And I know, Yeah, my feeling is
Speaker 3: that it wasn't until your early twenties. But you've said
Speaker 3: that you started feeling anxiety by the end of Boy
Speaker 3: Meets World.
Speaker 2: Oh, no, I had my first. So I had my
Speaker 2: first panic attack while filming at Double hockey Sticks. They
Speaker 2: used the take so I can see where my panic
Speaker 2: attack was. Wow, that was yeah, so I can actually
Speaker 2: point and go first anxiety attack. So that's on film
Speaker 2: for me too, in a scene with Gabrielle Union. And
Speaker 2: that was like ninety eight, ninety nine, right, yeah, ninety eight,
Speaker 2: And so then it was just then, you you know,
Speaker 2: I got on medication which is why I put on
Speaker 2: all the weight, and then I was just white knuckling
Speaker 2: it until you realize that that's not going to help
Speaker 2: for long anyway. And so by about two thousand I
Speaker 2: went and I did everything in a finite amount of time.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm not in therapy now. I don't know
Speaker 2: why I need to say that, but and I haven't
Speaker 2: been for many, many, many many years. But at the
Speaker 2: time I needed it and it was life altering and
Speaker 2: really helped.
Speaker 5: Wow.
Speaker 1: I actually thought you still were in therapy. I am
Speaker 1: recently in therapy for the very first time in my life.
Speaker 2: No, therapy's great, I just I haven't done it in
Speaker 2: twenty ye Yeah. Yeah, how is that for you?
Speaker 5: Daniel likes to have that in conjunction with this, which
Speaker 5: has also been therapeutic in its own way.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I don't want to say that the
Speaker 1: podcast is the reason that I'm in therapy, because it
Speaker 1: isn't the entirety of the reason that I'm in therapy,
Speaker 1: but to be honest, it is a large part of
Speaker 1: the reason I'm in therapy. I think that there have
Speaker 1: been a lot of things that have come up for
Speaker 1: me over the course of doing the podcast, rewatching the
Speaker 1: episodes about things and wondering how much of things that
Speaker 1: happened in my childhood or in my past have impacted
Speaker 1: who I am now as an adult and things that
Speaker 1: I'd like to change about myself, Like you guys have
Speaker 1: heard me joke about it, my perfectionism and my type
Speaker 1: A miss and you know it's funny if it also
Speaker 1: isn't so obnoxious, and if it also wasn't so for
Speaker 1: lack of a better word, painful, Like it is time
Speaker 1: consuming and exhausting for not only me to be so
Speaker 1: type A and perfectionist in nature, but it is also
Speaker 1: exhausting for the people around me who love me and
Speaker 1: frustrating for them because they want me to be gentler
Speaker 1: on myself and also gentler on others. And that comes
Speaker 1: out in a lot of ways that I'm not proud of.
Speaker 1: I'm quick to anger, I'm quick to raise my voice.
Speaker 1: And having kids now, like those things are just so
Speaker 1: important to me that my children don't grow up in
Speaker 1: a house where they feel like they have to be
Speaker 1: all be good all the time or be perfectionist all
Speaker 1: the time in order to keep me happy, Like I'm
Speaker 1: I just really don't want that and so I am
Speaker 1: in therapy for the first time in my life, partially
Speaker 1: because of this podcast, and I am struggling. One of
Speaker 1: the things that we are starting to talk about is
Speaker 1: like little girl Danielle and if I couldn't, I mean,
Speaker 1: I couldn't tell you how hard it is to be
Speaker 1: in touch with her. I'm like, it's so, I have
Speaker 1: like a complete dissociation and I don't know why. And
Speaker 1: we actually just had a very interesting experience where a
Speaker 1: full and complete, repressed memory was revealed when Will remembered
Speaker 1: something very clearly from an episode we shot where I
Speaker 1: apparently burst into tears in front of a live studio audience.
Speaker 4: And that is something.
Speaker 1: Bursting into tears in front of two hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: plus people is something.
Speaker 4: You should remember.
Speaker 3: And you're fellow cast, yeah, and everybody.
Speaker 5: And the audience that will eventually be watching the show. Yeah,
Speaker 5: I'm sure that's a piece as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And like that is something you would think if
Speaker 1: that happened to anybody listening right now, they go, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'd remember that. I'd remember that if that happened to me,
Speaker 1: if I burst into tears in front of that many
Speaker 1: people and ran off. And yet I have no memory
Speaker 1: of it, so I'm trying to, like, I'm trying to
Speaker 1: get to those to those things, and it's it is.
Speaker 1: If you thought the up the podcast was a lot
Speaker 1: of unpacking, I'm also jumping into all kinds of real
Speaker 1: life unpacking, which hopefully helps explain some of the reasons
Speaker 1: why I am like a raw nerve and am like
Speaker 1: could cry at the drop of a dime.
Speaker 4: So I I'm loving it. I'm truly loving it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 5: I mean that segues so well into kind of what
Speaker 5: I was going to move into. And I'm kind of
Speaker 5: going to give some information before I ask some questions
Speaker 5: that will relate to what I'm saying, so that when
Speaker 5: I'm using these words, you know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 4: So a lot of the work that I do is
Speaker 4: parts work.
Speaker 5: It stems from a type of therapy called internal family systems,
Speaker 5: basically looking at our internal ecosystem as a family as
Speaker 5: all these different parts of us that make up who
Speaker 5: we are. And a lot of that includes, like you said,
Speaker 5: little Danielle, that's a part of you too, and that
Speaker 5: could be multiple parts. Little Danielle can be little Danielle
Speaker 5: who was loving being on stage and being the center
Speaker 5: of attention. Danielle can be that part that was like
Speaker 5: feeling really beaten down and hurt or insecure. And when
Speaker 5: we look at all of our parts within us, a
Speaker 5: lot of times it could be things like you said, perfectionism,
Speaker 5: that could be a part. A part of us can
Speaker 5: be I'm a fierce caretaker. I really am passionate about
Speaker 5: taking care of my loved ones. These are all different
Speaker 5: parts of us. So if I ask you questions and
Speaker 5: I use the word parts, that's kind of what I'm
Speaker 5: referring to.
Speaker 4: Okay, I love it. I started crying just hearing you
Speaker 4: talk about it.
Speaker 2: Going to be a very.
Speaker 5: All come out. And so when you're looking at that experience,
Speaker 5: like you said, of like that is so bizarre to me.
Speaker 5: Why don't I remember that anyone would remember that? It's
Speaker 5: because another part came forward to protect you from the
Speaker 5: man as it was too painful to remember that little
Speaker 5: Danielle is like frozen in there. And what happens is
Speaker 5: the other parts of us have feelings about our different parts,
Speaker 5: and there's probably another part of you that's like, I
Speaker 5: hate that little girl that was embarrassed and ashamed and crying.
Speaker 5: I want to get rid of her.
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna take over and you're not going to
Speaker 2: remember that memory. Wow.
Speaker 5: And it's so painful because little Danielle is still in
Speaker 5: there and she wants to be heard just as much
Speaker 5: of that as that other voice is trying.
Speaker 3: To be heard.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's still a part of me that hates that
Speaker 1: little Danielle that burst into tears. There's a part of
Speaker 1: me that hates the big Danielle burst into tears too.
Speaker 1: And I like that, like big a part of me
Speaker 1: that always wants to just be like I need to
Speaker 1: get things done. It's time to get things done. You
Speaker 1: don't have time to talk about this. You don't have
Speaker 1: time to grieve this, you don't have time.
Speaker 3: To do that.
Speaker 4: There are things to get done.
Speaker 1: That part of me moving, Oh yeah, that part of
Speaker 1: my ego is like whoa, she's a stallion and she's
Speaker 1: very efficient and she's like super I mean, I also
Speaker 1: give her a lot of credit because that person is
Speaker 1: a lot of the reason I accomplish the goals that
Speaker 1: I want to accomplish, and I checked them, gets a
Speaker 1: lot done and is like super self starting and motivating
Speaker 1: and takes a lot on her plate and can get
Speaker 1: it all done like the superwoman version of me.
Speaker 2: But yeah, that's her.
Speaker 5: That's the part the Superwoman.
Speaker 1: That's the only part of me I think is well developed. Honestly,
Speaker 1: I think I think the other little parts of me
Speaker 1: have just been things. I've just been like, nope, not
Speaker 1: dealing with you.
Speaker 4: Go away.
Speaker 1: So I'm like just now starting to take the cap
Speaker 1: off of those people. I'm not gonna hog this episode.
Speaker 2: So yes, do about everybody's part.
Speaker 5: But I think that makes so much sense that you're like,
Speaker 5: that is the part of me that feels so developed,
Speaker 5: because yeah, that was the part that got you on
Speaker 5: a hit sitcom. That was the part that helped you
Speaker 5: sustain being on a hit sitcom. I mean, you need
Speaker 5: to be superwoman on set and in handling a situation
Speaker 5: that is so bizarre, like we said, and that needs
Speaker 5: to be moving, like that's how show business works.
Speaker 1: And so also the only version that got validation, that's
Speaker 1: also the one that gets the applause, that gets the
Speaker 1: good job, that gets the look what you did, that
Speaker 1: gets the like we're so proud of you, because that's
Speaker 1: you know, like that's the one that achieves.
Speaker 5: Yeah, the part that cried, like you said on set
Speaker 5: and had to take a break and slow down production
Speaker 5: and kind of hold everything up. That part doesn't work
Speaker 5: in show business.
Speaker 1: If no one was saying congratulations, Danielle, you just stopped
Speaker 1: the show. Congratulations, people are waiting.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So Superwoman Danielle learned, I gotta be at the forefront.
Speaker 5: I gotta be the driver's I'm going to get stuff
Speaker 5: done because these other parts are slowing us down.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's why they kind of disappear. Yeah, yeah, poof.
Speaker 4: Let's talk about writer.
Speaker 5: Writer, tell me about your part. Yeah, something writer that
Speaker 5: I in a recent episode.
Speaker 3: I know you're talking about.
Speaker 5: I know there's been a lot of conversation about being
Speaker 5: hard on ourselves watching everything back, it's I think the
Speaker 5: curse of the actor.
Speaker 4: It's impossible to not feel that way.
Speaker 5: But I know you described it as feeling like, oh
Speaker 5: my god, I just look so out of control, and
Speaker 5: so I wrote it down not presentable, which I thought
Speaker 5: was such like, ooh.
Speaker 4: Those are powerful words.
Speaker 2: What what was that like?
Speaker 5: Is that how you felt at the time?
Speaker 2: Out of control? Uh?
Speaker 3: It's interesting because I was I was thinking about because
Speaker 3: I you know, yeah, that episode recently just came out,
Speaker 3: so I saw that clip on Instagram, and I was like, wow, yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean, I think what's interesting is that when I
Speaker 3: watched the clip of me saying I was out of
Speaker 3: control and not presentable, I actually feel the opposite about
Speaker 3: acting now, Like I actually think that in a certain
Speaker 3: to a certain degree, being out of control and being
Speaker 3: non presentable is good for actors, right, Like I think, really,
Speaker 3: I think that the and I think, what part of
Speaker 3: the my the part of you know, the reason I'm
Speaker 3: not an actor anymore is that I realized that so
Speaker 3: much of acting became being in control and being presentable,
Speaker 3: and that ruined me as an actor, Like that actually
Speaker 3: took away the essential thing that is great about acting,
Speaker 3: which is that you're doing this high wire act, you're
Speaker 3: feeling it, You're alive. So, for instance, I I was
Speaker 3: thinking the other day, I remember one time, near the
Speaker 3: end of Boy Me World, I finally went into the
Speaker 3: editing room. We rarely went into the editing room, and
Speaker 3: I remember sitting there watching the editors work on one
Speaker 3: of our scenes and Karen mcchanne was our producer, and
Speaker 3: they couldn't tell which take they were using from a
Speaker 3: performance of mine, and they were like, oh, it's the
Speaker 3: same in both of these takes, and Karen turned to
Speaker 3: me and said, yeah, you and Ben are often it's
Speaker 3: impossible to tell the difference between your takes. And at
Speaker 3: the time, I went, that's not a good thing. I
Speaker 3: don't think that's a good thing. And what that says
Speaker 3: to me is that by the end of Boy Meets World,
Speaker 3: I had sort of learned to control my presentation to
Speaker 3: you know, and I think it destroyed acting for me.
Speaker 3: And it wasn't until I was in my late twenties
Speaker 3: early thirties that I started taking acting classes again and
Speaker 3: met my wife and sort of rediscovered what acting is
Speaker 3: and realized, look, no, I needed like be free, Like
Speaker 3: the whole point is to be out of control. So
Speaker 3: I totally it's interesting that now I look back on
Speaker 3: my early days on Boy Meets World and I'm criticizing that,
Speaker 3: when in reality, I think that was actually the right impulse,
Speaker 3: you know. I think it's more just like the insecurity
Speaker 3: of like, look, feeling awkward about my face and what
Speaker 3: I looked like and whatnot. But actually I'm I want
Speaker 3: to go back and tell fourteen year old Rider in
Speaker 3: second season, keep going, keep being weird, just keep keep
Speaker 3: being out of control actually because I think that, yes,
Speaker 3: like what I said on the podcast was the sort
Speaker 3: of part of me. I was trying to clamp down
Speaker 3: and be more presentable and be cooler or better looking
Speaker 3: or more and in retrospect, that's all not good for
Speaker 3: actors to be. I don't think, you know, I think
Speaker 3: I think for me, acting should be freeing and being
Speaker 3: about expressive and being honest and open and and so. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So I actually kind of want to take back those
Speaker 3: those what I was saying and be like, no, you
Speaker 3: know is right for me to watch? Yeah, but I
Speaker 3: think I was doing right. Like, I think the problem
Speaker 3: was that as time went on on Boy Meet's World
Speaker 3: and I'm curious to see how it goes, I think
Speaker 3: I got more and more presentable and actory and locked
Speaker 3: in in my performances and in my jokes, and I
Speaker 3: think that made it less funny. I think I became
Speaker 3: less entertaining as comedically. I think I might have been
Speaker 3: fine dramatically, but I think that's part of the reason
Speaker 3: why Sean became not funny is because I got very
Speaker 3: insecure about my ability to hit jokes and nail a beat.
Speaker 3: And that was you know, truth be told. That was
Speaker 3: The atmosphere on our set was that there's a right
Speaker 3: way to do jokes, and there was one person in
Speaker 3: charge of that right way, and he would tell us
Speaker 3: you are only going to get a laugh if you
Speaker 3: do it the way I'm going to do it. And
Speaker 3: I think Will fortunately was able to break free of
Speaker 3: that very early on, and you always were like, no,
Speaker 3: I know what's funny, and you did it, and you
Speaker 3: were allowed the freedom to do that, and you were
Speaker 3: written too in that reg whereas I always felt like,
Speaker 3: in order to be funny, I had to follow the
Speaker 3: literal line readings or the literal instructions of one man
Speaker 3: who was writing those jokes, and that, you know, really
Speaker 3: that paralyzed me about comedy and it's a bummer. That's gosh,
Speaker 3: that's so powerful.
Speaker 5: I think that is so much of the work for
Speaker 5: actors in sustaining a whole career is how do you
Speaker 5: keep that freedom and that fluidity that makes you a
Speaker 5: good actor and not care because you hear so much
Speaker 5: from people like, oh, my best audition was when I
Speaker 5: didn't really care about the auditions. I didn't really care
Speaker 5: about the part. And it's like, how do we keep
Speaker 5: that feeling in us? When we do care because actors,
Speaker 5: of course care. It's like the stakes are so high,
Speaker 5: we do it because we care, Yes, right.
Speaker 3: I had this incredible experience when I was so when
Speaker 3: I was twenty three, I did the play The Graduate,
Speaker 3: and I played the Ben Ben Care, the uh Dustin
Speaker 3: Hoffman character, so it was I was on stage the
Speaker 3: entire time, and it was very much a comedy. It
Speaker 3: was a sort of an It was more bag based
Speaker 3: on the book The Graduate. They took some parts of
Speaker 3: the movie, but it's more based on the book, so
Speaker 3: it had more of a sort of comedic outwardly funny tone.
Speaker 5: And I.
Speaker 3: Did my best and I was very much a certain
Speaker 3: type of actor and just got killed in the reviews,
Speaker 3: just massacred, which was the first time I had ever
Speaker 3: had bad reviews because it was the first time being
Speaker 3: an adult actor, frankly, and like, you know, I finally
Speaker 3: and it was so funny. While I was doing the play,
Speaker 3: I would read the reviews and be like, eh, they
Speaker 3: don't know and move on and be fine. But then
Speaker 3: like a year a year and a half after doing
Speaker 3: the play, for whatever reason, I decided to google the
Speaker 3: reviews and like could not sleep for weeks and it
Speaker 3: was devastating. And then when I was thirty, they asked
Speaker 3: me the production, the producers of the Graduate asked me
Speaker 3: to go do the play again and I still looked
Speaker 3: young enough to play the part, and they said, come
Speaker 3: to Australia. And at this point I was already pretty
Speaker 3: much done with acting. I had moved into directing and
Speaker 3: I got this opportunity to play the same role again
Speaker 3: and I told the director. I was like, I'm not
Speaker 3: going to do it the same way because at that
Speaker 3: point I had sort of had this revelation like I
Speaker 3: need to like let go of control and let go
Speaker 3: of like every night being the same performance and every
Speaker 3: line being the same, and it was super freeing and
Speaker 3: it was so wonderful to go back and do the
Speaker 3: same play and this time completely let go of the
Speaker 3: net and it completely changed my approach to acting. And
Speaker 3: that's really when I kind of stopped acting after that run.
Speaker 3: It was wonderful. It was super empowering, Like and what
Speaker 3: I would do is I would be sitting there on
Speaker 3: stage and I could feel the audience like if I was,
Speaker 3: you know, finding myself into a rote performance where I'm like, oh,
Speaker 3: I'm hitting the beats I'm saying that, and I could
Speaker 3: feel the audience waning. I could feel the energy waning.
Speaker 3: I would be like, whoa, and I'd have to like
Speaker 3: wake myself up and be like, next line, I'm just
Speaker 3: not going to know how I'm going to say it.
Speaker 3: I'm just gonna I know the line, but I'm going
Speaker 3: to completely infuse it with a new meaning and a
Speaker 3: new feeling. And immediately the audience would come with me,
Speaker 3: and immediately they would come back, and so like, I
Speaker 3: feel like I got to discover the power of acting
Speaker 3: for the first time at thirty years old, you know,
Speaker 3: and it was it was so cool to be able
Speaker 3: to go back and do the same play again and
Speaker 3: be able to like fix it. You know.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: The actress working with me try to get me fired.
Speaker 3: Who yeah, because she was like, she's like writers not
Speaker 3: doing it the same way every night. I can't work
Speaker 3: with him.
Speaker 2: Wow, had done very she had that actor well, she
Speaker 2: was a she.
Speaker 3: Was a very English style actress where there it's like
Speaker 3: we lock in our performance and we do it every
Speaker 3: night the exact same way. And she she she accused
Speaker 3: me of changing the lines and I was like, no, no, no,
Speaker 3: I'm doing it word for word the same. I'm just
Speaker 3: changing the way I say every night. I would never
Speaker 3: improvise on stage, but what I would do is change
Speaker 3: the tone, change whatever, change the intention, feel it be
Speaker 3: alive in the moment. And that freaked her out, and
Speaker 3: you know, of course she had wanted me to go
Speaker 3: back to what I had been when I was twenty three,
Speaker 3: where I had just been a performing robot, and.
Speaker 5: Where you were in quote unquote control, where you were predictable. Yeah,
Speaker 5: being a director, has that given you any insight into
Speaker 5: the kind of set and dynamic on set and culture
Speaker 5: on set that you want to generate for the cast
Speaker 5: that you're working with. And in doing that, is it
Speaker 5: giving you any insights into the environment on set of
Speaker 5: Boy Meets World?
Speaker 3: Absolutely? Yeah.
Speaker 4: Girl Meets World was really that way that, uh, you.
Speaker 3: Know, just deciding, oh, I'm not only a creative director here,
Speaker 3: I am. I need to model what I think good
Speaker 3: behaviors and good set behaviors for these kids, and I
Speaker 3: need to protect them. And it was, you know, and
Speaker 3: I was becoming a father during Boy Meets World or
Speaker 3: during Girl Meets World. And I remember those two roles
Speaker 3: sort of you know, me recognizing like, oh I am
Speaker 3: the grown up here and I need to be, you know,
Speaker 3: helping create a safe space for these kids and trying
Speaker 3: to support them as actors in a way that I
Speaker 3: did not feel was being supported and that I did
Speaker 3: not feel was supported on Boy Meth World except from
Speaker 3: people like David Trainor and Jeff McCracken. And we had
Speaker 3: some good directors. We had some great directors and great
Speaker 3: producers producers, you know, but in general, yes, with with
Speaker 3: Girl Meth World, it was like, oh, I'm I'm time
Speaker 3: traveling back, and I get to be one of the
Speaker 3: adults that I appreciated when I was on Boymuth World,
Speaker 3: and I need to like actively engage those powers now
Speaker 3: and and try and do good. And it was really,
Speaker 3: it was great. It was It was wonderful. I you know,
Speaker 3: I actually don't have much of a relationship with the
Speaker 3: girls from Girl Meth World, but I would like to
Speaker 3: think that that they think fondly on our time together,
Speaker 3: you know. And that way that I was a good
Speaker 3: influence was.
Speaker 5: That healing in itself to be able to kind of
Speaker 5: be in the parent role and almost reparent other people,
Speaker 5: but in a way almost reparent yourself.
Speaker 3: And little Rider. The problem was I also had to
Speaker 3: act on the show, and I did not want to
Speaker 3: do that and I did not want to have to
Speaker 3: be Sean Hunter again. And so while there was so
Speaker 3: much empowerment when I directed, you know, and I ended
Speaker 3: up directing a bunch of the episodes, ultimately the experience, like,
Speaker 3: I think people still think of me as John Hunter,
Speaker 3: and I only further entrenched that identity by being on
Speaker 3: the show, which was a trade off, right. I agreed
Speaker 3: to do two episodes a season of Girl Meets World
Speaker 3: in order to be able to direct some episodes. But
Speaker 3: when I look at that time, all I can remember
Speaker 3: and all I can really think about is the directing
Speaker 3: that I did. But unfortunately it's It definitely was the
Speaker 3: nail in the coffin of my acting career because it
Speaker 3: was like, oh here I am doing Sewan again, and
Speaker 3: I just did not want to be there for that,
Speaker 3: you know, in that role.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I had no problem coming back and playing
Speaker 1: Topang again. I was excited to do it and to
Speaker 1: see what Tapega was going to be as a mother
Speaker 1: and how her relationship with Corey would have evolved, and
Speaker 1: who she was as a wife and as a professional.
Speaker 4: I was excited about all of those things.
Speaker 1: And yes, it was very arctic to be an adult
Speaker 1: professional on a set that that helped to try and
Speaker 1: create in every way that I could a safe space
Speaker 1: environment for all of the actors and all the kids
Speaker 1: on that show. Unfortunately, in order to do that, I
Speaker 1: myself was constantly fraught in near constant battle, and so
Speaker 1: it was a total dichotomy of I'm going to battle
Speaker 1: to help create a safe space environment, and so it was,
Speaker 1: you know, I walked away from it feeling like I
Speaker 1: threw myself under a bus or in the line of
Speaker 1: five onto the grenade and I and I hope it
Speaker 1: worked to a certain and you know, I know only
Speaker 1: to a certain extent that it that it you know,
Speaker 1: it could it could only it would only work as
Speaker 1: much as it could work.
Speaker 4: And you know, uh, yeah, so let's talk about Will.
Speaker 4: Will has been silent.
Speaker 2: I've just been very I'll be totally honest with you, Kira.
Speaker 2: I'm not fully comfortable with this and never have been. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think therapy is very important and very private, so
Speaker 2: I'm sure I will be guarded in what I answer,
Speaker 2: but have at it.
Speaker 5: No, that's totally okay. I completely respect that because yeah,
Speaker 5: this is very unusual. Usually therapy is completely private and confidential.
Speaker 5: So yeah, something that I was that I thought was
Speaker 5: interesting listening as as a fan of the podcast listening
Speaker 5: the whole story about Amsterdam and kind of one the
Speaker 5: fleeing to Amsterdam and Jason Marten leading to kind of
Speaker 5: come be like, come on, let's get back to real life,
Speaker 5: Like we could do this for a week, then we
Speaker 5: got to get back to me. It's obviously it's a
Speaker 5: hilarious story, but I heard as a therapist, I was like, wow,
Speaker 5: that is a strong part of you that was coming forward,
Speaker 5: really protecting you from from something from you know, from
Speaker 5: being on set, or how you felt being on set,
Speaker 5: how you felt being in la.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm sure it would be something more
Speaker 2: of maybe being in Los Angeles or away from my family,
Speaker 2: but that wouldn't make sense because I had gone to Europe.
Speaker 2: But no, I my on set experience was normally very
Speaker 2: very good. I just I you know, after the first year,
Speaker 2: I didn't have to be in school, so I found
Speaker 2: Tony Quinn. That second year we were off. You know,
Speaker 2: I was doing this incredible show where I was enjoying
Speaker 2: myself immensely acting and got such a rush from the audience,
Speaker 2: and I could spend time with my friends and I
Speaker 2: loved it. You know, was everything awesome? No, of course not.
Speaker 2: But overall, when I look back at Boy Mets World,
Speaker 2: it's a wonderful experience, probably the best seven years of
Speaker 2: my life. I think there's also something just to be
Speaker 2: said for I was like twenty yeah, and you I
Speaker 2: just wanted to change. It's just something different. It's you know,
Speaker 2: when you're under contract, even if it's a marvelously wonderful contract,
Speaker 2: it's you know, the golden handcuffs. Occasionally where I'm I
Speaker 2: had to go and ask permission to get a tattoo,
Speaker 2: If I want to get my haircut, I have to
Speaker 2: ask permission to do that. It's just you're under contract,
Speaker 2: which is you know, there's a wonderful balance to being
Speaker 2: under contract because you're also doing what you love and
Speaker 2: you're getting money for it, you're getting the recognition for it.
Speaker 2: You're making people laugh to me as my drug. So
Speaker 2: getting to do that every week in front of an
Speaker 2: audience that was every week we saw them getting more
Speaker 2: and more invested in the characters in the show was
Speaker 2: a wonderful experience for me. So I think I I'm
Speaker 2: one of those guys who very rarely rebelled. And when
Speaker 2: I look back at the stuff that I did rebel on,
Speaker 2: it was all more personally damaging. Like I started smoking
Speaker 2: cigarettes when I was ten. I didn't, I don't. Didn't
Speaker 2: find drinking until I was like twenty five thirty, and
Speaker 2: I didn't. I never did hard drugs or any of
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff like that. But you know, smoking
Speaker 2: for thirty five years or whatever not a good thing.
Speaker 2: And so that I'm sure had something to do with
Speaker 2: my anxiety and all that kind of stuff like that.
Speaker 2: And I think for those three months, however long I
Speaker 2: was in Amsterdam two months, there was this moment of
Speaker 2: it's my life and I'm leaving and doing it. Meanwhile,
Speaker 2: I was under contract to write a script for Disney.
Speaker 2: That's why I was there, So, I mean, it was
Speaker 2: still a long chain that was attached to the parent company.
Speaker 2: But I loved working for the parent company.
Speaker 5: I did.
Speaker 2: I loved all the benefits we got. I loved all
Speaker 2: the people we met. I loved you know, I I
Speaker 2: love the little thing. Hey, come on, we're going to
Speaker 2: Disney World this time we're going to Disneyland. They're shutting
Speaker 2: down the park. So I had a lot of issues
Speaker 2: in my life when it came to I mean again,
Speaker 2: when it comes to the anxiety, the more I learned
Speaker 2: about it is, you know, it's a slight tick in
Speaker 2: my fight or flight response, but for the vast majority
Speaker 2: of what I was dealing with, it was genetic. It's
Speaker 2: a chemical imbalance. So it was it wasn't what I
Speaker 2: was going through in my life so much as what
Speaker 2: I was going through in my life was altered by
Speaker 2: my physiology. So unfortunately, this thing that was the most
Speaker 2: wonderful thing of running out in front of an audience,
Speaker 2: of entertaining them, all of a sudden became one of
Speaker 2: the most frightening things I had to do, literally in
Speaker 2: a millisecond, because when you have that first anxiety attack,
Speaker 2: it changes everything, everything, your whole life. So it was
Speaker 2: it wasn't Boymet's world that did it, you know, it was.
Speaker 2: You see people nowadays, and we've all seen them in
Speaker 2: news and in the news or in magazines or things
Speaker 2: like that, where they seem to become unhinged for lack
Speaker 2: of a better word, in their early twenties and that's
Speaker 2: usually when, if it doesn't hit you very early, when
Speaker 2: a mental illness will hit you as late teen's early twenties,
Speaker 2: as your brain is starting to finish developing. So you
Speaker 2: know it was to me When I look back, the
Speaker 2: regret is not that I had the anxiety. That's who
Speaker 2: I am, and it's made me who I am. And
Speaker 2: if I woke up tomorrow with no anxiety, I'm not
Speaker 2: sure I would know what to do. I've befriended it.
Speaker 2: It's a warm blanket that I put on every day.
Speaker 2: The thing that upsets me is that chocolate cake was
Speaker 2: my favorite thing, and it changed the flavor. So I
Speaker 2: loved Boy Mets World. I loved everything about it and
Speaker 2: the idea that it didn't steal it from me my brain.
Speaker 2: You know, my brain is not my enemy. I'm I'm
Speaker 2: in control of it. But it did alter it for me,
Speaker 2: and that's a shame because it went from being the
Speaker 2: most wonderful thing in the world to being scary, having
Speaker 2: nothing to do with anything but my own physiology. So
Speaker 2: that's that's what I deal with. I don't deal with
Speaker 2: the same kind of we talk about unpacking. I was,
Speaker 2: as writer said, I got away from you know, I
Speaker 2: kind of carved my own niche niece for the Boy
Speaker 2: Meets World fans out there. I carved my own niece
Speaker 2: very early and just stuck with it, and I think
Speaker 2: the producers and the writers respected that and let me
Speaker 2: do my thing. And so that coupled with being with
Speaker 2: writer and Danielle every day, being with Tony Quinn, you know,
Speaker 2: in the early episodes, being in front of the audience.
Speaker 2: Every time I look back at Boy, I smile, even
Speaker 2: when even when we talk about some of these horrible
Speaker 2: things that that have happened, and there are, but that's
Speaker 2: you know, that's life, and you take them. And that's
Speaker 2: when I look at Danielle and I look at Ryder.
Speaker 2: They've taken the things that have happened to them and
Speaker 2: made them the people they are. And there are two
Speaker 2: people that I love almost more than anybody else on
Speaker 2: the planet. So I wouldn't want to change anything they
Speaker 2: went through because I don't want to change them. So
Speaker 2: that's kind of that's how I look at it. I
Speaker 2: think that is such a powerful way to look at it.
Speaker 6: If chocolate cake was my favorite cake and it changed
Speaker 6: the flavor, so now I think that's almost like a
Speaker 6: perfect metaphor potentially for this podcast for you guys, is
Speaker 6: that how it has felt for any of you is
Speaker 6: that maybe a chocolate cake wasn't your favorite flavor, Boy
Speaker 6: Meets World wasn't like the highlight of your life, but
Speaker 6: it was this good thing, and doing the podcast has that,
Speaker 6: you know, has there been more space created for the
Speaker 6: parts of it as well.
Speaker 3: I've always, i think, you know, part of maybe just
Speaker 3: my personality or whatever, my experience Boy Meets World was
Speaker 3: always sort of torturous for me in cert you know,
Speaker 3: in certain regard, I've always been tortured by, uh, the experience.
Speaker 3: So the podcast is actually just is if anything, made
Speaker 3: it more positive because I'm sharing the experience and and
Speaker 3: and reappreciating just the quality of the show, and appreciating
Speaker 3: the quality the love of the fans, and and respecting,
Speaker 3: you know, this part of my life that I ran
Speaker 3: away from for so long. So for me like this
Speaker 3: this is you know, therapeutic in a most mostly wholly
Speaker 3: positive way. It's not, it's you know, so the unpacking
Speaker 3: is like coming to terms with a lot of the
Speaker 3: good things about Boy Meets World that I didn't allow
Speaker 3: myself to feel out of us, I think a sense
Speaker 3: of self preservation that fame, you know, the fame was
Speaker 3: a source of trauma for me, and I felt out
Speaker 3: of control. I felt like I did not get to
Speaker 3: control my public identity from the age of thirteen on.
Speaker 3: And contending with that has been very difficult because on
Speaker 3: one hand, you know, and I know that this is
Speaker 3: sort of a child actor thing, right, It's like, on
Speaker 3: one hand, you want you want status back, like you
Speaker 3: want to be acknowledged for something, for being good at
Speaker 3: something or being you know, and you do you get
Speaker 3: used to that, right, I got used to the idea
Speaker 3: that people cared who right or strong was, and that
Speaker 3: if I wrote something, everybody would want to read it,
Speaker 3: or if I you know, and when you realize that
Speaker 3: that's not the case, it's hard, you know, And it's
Speaker 3: always been a difficult thing for me to both run
Speaker 3: away from Boymet's world but then also acknowledge that it's
Speaker 3: the source of a lot of great things in my life,
Speaker 3: a source of a lot of successful things in my
Speaker 3: life and things that I cherish. So yeah, so doing
Speaker 3: this podcast is kind of right up my alley as
Speaker 3: far as like the way I don't feel like I'm
Speaker 3: I'm I'm rediscovering the good things about Bombing World ultimately,
Speaker 3: Like I don't feel like i've I've always kind of
Speaker 3: taken a slightly negative view, and I know that's kind
Speaker 3: of hard for our fans to hear sometimes, and and
Speaker 3: I'm I apologize for in the past. I feel like
Speaker 3: I've you know, been disparaging about my own fans or
Speaker 3: our own fans because I'm I've been so insecure and
Speaker 3: I've run away from this part of my life. And
Speaker 3: I feel like, for me, the podcast is a way
Speaker 3: to embrace it and to confront it, and so it
Speaker 3: feels good. On the whole, it feels very good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, on a somewhat related but slightly different layer, I
Speaker 1: have gone my entire life hearing and knowing how beloved
Speaker 1: the show was, and I just accepted it at face value.
Speaker 4: I thought, oh, that's so nice.
Speaker 1: Everybody loves the show. But I did not remember anything
Speaker 1: about it at all, And so I in my head
Speaker 1: was always like, I don't know why, but I don't
Speaker 1: need to know why.
Speaker 4: It doesn't matter. What we did was good. You think
Speaker 4: it was good. I accept that. I don't run away
Speaker 4: from it.
Speaker 1: I am I am thrilled to have played a character
Speaker 1: that that is mostly beloved by a lot of people,
Speaker 1: like that's a wonderful thing. I will just say thank
Speaker 1: you and and say yes, isn't it great? But I
Speaker 1: never really knew why. This experience for me has been.
Speaker 4: Let's learn, let's learn what do you what?
Speaker 2: What?
Speaker 5: What is the thing?
Speaker 4: What are the things?
Speaker 3: What did we do?
Speaker 4: How come I don't remember what?
Speaker 2: What were?
Speaker 4: What were they?
Speaker 1: And then trying to embrace the positive and the negative
Speaker 1: memories and experiences that come with that.
Speaker 4: And to Will's point, I'm grateful for them both.
Speaker 1: I love I truly love them both, even even the
Speaker 1: bad ones that even that, even things that are like
Speaker 1: oh man, that must have been hard, and I'll cry
Speaker 1: thinking about it.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 4: I don't want it to change. I just want to
Speaker 4: understand it.
Speaker 1: I just want to know the role it's played and
Speaker 1: who I am now because I I do so love
Speaker 1: my life and I want to to me, life is
Speaker 1: not interesting if you are not asking a million questions.
Speaker 1: And so that's what this has allowed us to do,
Speaker 1: and to get to know myself better and to know
Speaker 1: the show better, and then also get to know the
Speaker 1: two of these gentlemen better, and for us to deepen
Speaker 1: our bonds and our relationships and reconnect with the people
Speaker 1: who had such a such a hand and shaping our
Speaker 1: memories and our childhoods and our lives.
Speaker 4: You know, what a what a gift.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have I have a quick question for you both,
Speaker 2: because I've been curious about this. Do you think looking
Speaker 2: back at Boy Meets World, the way we are would
Speaker 2: be different for you both had Girl Meets World never happened.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah, I mean Girl
Speaker 3: Girl Meets World was the sort of first version of
Speaker 3: doing this podcast for me where I could suddenly see
Speaker 3: the dynamic of our set at being recreated in a
Speaker 3: new context and see it as an adult. And I
Speaker 3: made huge realizations in the course of Girl Meets World, like, oh,
Speaker 3: that's the way we were talked to, that's the way
Speaker 3: we were treated that I that is not the way
Speaker 3: I thought it was, you know. And we can get
Speaker 3: into details about that, but I don't know if it's
Speaker 3: even worth it. But like, certainly, like I my brain
Speaker 3: went through a huge reconfiguration at the age of thirty
Speaker 3: three or whenever Girl Meets World started, where I had
Speaker 3: to like adjust my perspective on the people we had
Speaker 3: been working with and adjust my perspective on the environment
Speaker 3: of a set. I also think just being a director
Speaker 3: in general not only changed the way I think about,
Speaker 3: you know, acting, like I've described, but also you realize
Speaker 3: how limited your view is as an actor, Like when
Speaker 3: an actor shows up on set, especially a kid actor,
Speaker 3: this this thing has been primed for them and everybody
Speaker 3: you know. And and so our worldview from Boy Meets World,
Speaker 3: which I didn't realize until I was older and until
Speaker 3: I took a step into the director's chair, is so limited,
Speaker 3: like it's such a small part of the entire production experience.
Speaker 3: And so having that awareness and being like, oh my god,
Speaker 3: my worldview from Boy Meets World was like just the
Speaker 3: tiniest liver of what was actually going going on, and
Speaker 3: that's that was. So that was the first step in
Speaker 3: that direction. And then I feel like, now that's mostly
Speaker 3: you know, we're kind of continuing that journey that kind
Speaker 3: of began with Girl Meets World.
Speaker 1: From me, yeah, absolutely, one hundred percent. I agree with
Speaker 1: everything you just said. And also I can say from
Speaker 1: childhood Danielle's eyes, the adults we worked with were infallible.
Speaker 1: I took everything they said at face value and truth
Speaker 1: and therefore fact and thought only the highest things of
Speaker 1: everyone we worked with, only every single person. Everything had
Speaker 1: real rose colored glasses on, even when I was thirty
Speaker 1: three years old and looking back at it, and then
Speaker 1: when I went back to the set as an adult
Speaker 1: with all of these anticipations and expectations of what it
Speaker 1: was going to be and who they were and who
Speaker 1: we were going to be in this this recreated environment,
Speaker 1: and I was it.
Speaker 4: Was shocking and just shouldn't have been so shocking.
Speaker 2: What like, what you are?
Speaker 3: Some adults have no idea what's going on?
Speaker 4: And you are You are actually saying things that are untrue,
Speaker 4: but that is not the truth. Why would you say
Speaker 4: such things?
Speaker 3: You're telling the kids one thing and then doing it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and that's what we're talking about in the beginning.
Speaker 5: It's like, oh, now I'm an adult. I'm an adult
Speaker 5: in the room too, as a fellow adult. What the
Speaker 5: hell is going on there?
Speaker 6: Correct?
Speaker 3: Correct?
Speaker 4: Correct?
Speaker 3: It's such a bizarre experience, and it was.
Speaker 1: It literally turned my little Boy meets World, turned my
Speaker 1: world completely upside down. And all of a sudden, the
Speaker 1: things that I the stories that I remembered, had this
Speaker 1: new lens on them of maybe that wasn't said with
Speaker 1: good intentions, Maybe that isn't actually the truth, maybe this
Speaker 1: person maybe, and.
Speaker 4: I became like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: So I think when we went into the podcast, we
Speaker 1: went into the podcast with this feeling of what will
Speaker 1: this reveal to us? And I have actually been very
Speaker 1: pleasantly surprised with what has come back, with what we've
Speaker 1: seen with overall everything that's gone on, it has been
Speaker 1: it's actually been very enjoyable and pleasant, and I am
Speaker 1: thrilled we've done it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, me too, Me too.
Speaker 5: I love that you asked that question well, because I
Speaker 5: think that is such a unique experience, similar to what
Speaker 5: Ryder was talking about with the play that he had done,
Speaker 5: of like getting to come back to it with these
Speaker 5: fresh eyes and like what that brings up positively and
Speaker 5: negatively and remembering too. Like we've been saying, it's like
Speaker 5: it's not all black and white. It's not all good
Speaker 5: or bad. It's like, as humans, we want so badly
Speaker 5: for it to be all good or all bad, because
Speaker 5: that makes sense, that's comfortable. But I feel like what
Speaker 5: this podcast has been doing is really strengthening the gray space,
Speaker 5: because that's usually a space.
Speaker 2: As humans that we avoid because.
Speaker 5: It's so like, I don't know what to do in
Speaker 5: this area, and this is just strengthening that area, so
Speaker 5: there's more space in there to grow and play.
Speaker 1: Yes, well, do you think it's change. Do you think
Speaker 1: Girl Meets were I know you had. You know, you're
Speaker 1: it's very limited, You're very limited, I know. But do
Speaker 1: you think it had any impact on you as well?
Speaker 2: Maybe not so, I mean maybe a little bit. I
Speaker 2: had the same experience with the adults. Yeah, but I
Speaker 2: also knew that the kids were different than we were
Speaker 2: because I remember saying to one of the producers on
Speaker 2: the show, the kids, at least the weeks I've been here,
Speaker 2: they almost never smile. And it was one of those
Speaker 2: things where I had these memories of us running around
Speaker 2: to the point where I then came back for an
Speaker 2: episode and they all lined up in front of me
Speaker 2: and put these big fake smiles on and they're like,
Speaker 2: is this better? Like they literally did it as a joke.
Speaker 2: But that also I attribute that to also kind of
Speaker 2: the self the quote unquote selfishness of the younger generation,
Speaker 2: just meaning you're always on your phone, you're always inside,
Speaker 2: you know, you're you're always in your own little world
Speaker 2: as opposed to we were our worlds back then. We
Speaker 2: weren't on our cell phones. We weren't.
Speaker 4: We had to create our own fund.
Speaker 3: We did.
Speaker 2: We sat, We sat in our director's chairs and talked
Speaker 2: about books and movies. We fought about politics. We did
Speaker 2: all this. I was on the set of Girl Meets World,
Speaker 2: and you know, one actor would be in this corner
Speaker 2: on a phone, one actor be in that corner on
Speaker 2: his phone. They maybe talk as they walk by. It
Speaker 2: was just a whole different vibe. Yeah, And it was
Speaker 2: also just on a personal note, first time getting back
Speaker 2: on camera in front of an audience in years, So
Speaker 2: that was a whole other level of anxiety for me.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I didn't have the same experience of on
Speaker 2: Girl Meet World as anybody did. I was there for
Speaker 2: a total of four episodes, and you know, popping in
Speaker 2: and out for that. So I was not as not
Speaker 2: to use this word, but tainted by girmyts World as
Speaker 2: the two of you were. It was just kind of
Speaker 2: a thing that I did and used it as a
Speaker 2: personal experience more than anything else where. It's like, all right,
Speaker 2: I'm using this to get back on camera and I also.
Speaker 3: Still an actor. You know, we changed our actual role.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: I was a producer and an actor for every episode
Speaker 3: and director. I came in as a director first.
Speaker 2: It was yeah, well that's the only reason, like you,
Speaker 2: the only reason I did it is the deal was
Speaker 2: I got to write an episode if I could be free.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And the writing was not a great experience.
Speaker 2: It was just being in the writer's room was not
Speaker 2: a not a great experience for me. And I know
Speaker 2: that's not the norm for all writers rooms, but this
Speaker 2: one wasn't wasn't great and it was. And the thing
Speaker 2: that's so odd is you take you can take seven
Speaker 2: or eight wonderful people who are in incredibly talented and
Speaker 2: put them in a room, and that experience is not
Speaker 2: the same as hanging out with them one on one
Speaker 2: or two at the time or something. It's just it
Speaker 2: changes the dynamic. Yeah, because the right the people that
Speaker 2: were there are some of my favorite people ever. You know,
Speaker 2: love Mark Blutman, love Manel. You know, I'm bless Matt Nelson,
Speaker 2: I miss Matt. You know, Randy, there's some writers up
Speaker 2: there that were just phenomenally talented and wonderful people. But
Speaker 2: then you put them in an environment that might not
Speaker 2: be conducive to let's throw around create you know, the
Speaker 2: best creative ideas, and it doesn't always go the way
Speaker 2: that it should. So yeah, Gromy's World was not an
Speaker 2: experience that My entire takeaway from Gromiy's World is getting
Speaker 2: back in front of an audience, looking up as I
Speaker 2: ran out through the audience the first time ever, them
Speaker 2: standing up and give me a standing ovation and seeing
Speaker 2: my wife crying.
Speaker 3: That's what I take.
Speaker 2: That's what I take from Gromiy's World because I was
Speaker 2: a wonderful memory for me and kind of the rest
Speaker 2: of it be damned, but I was not as involved
Speaker 2: with it as you guys were, which is why there's
Speaker 2: such a difference for me than there was for you.
Speaker 4: Well, and it's another thing. I mean, I wouldn't I
Speaker 4: wouldn't change it either.
Speaker 1: I mean I wouldn't change it because, for one thing,
Speaker 1: those rose colored glasses that I looked back on everything
Speaker 1: with didn't need to be there and and shouldn't have
Speaker 1: been there. And I'm glad to have seen things from
Speaker 1: a different lens and to have that lens on my life.
Speaker 1: And you know, also, I mean those that show brought me.
Speaker 1: Those children are still some of my favorite people in
Speaker 1: the entire world. I mean, Sabrina Carpenter is literally one
Speaker 1: of my best friends. She was a bridesmaid in my wedding.
Speaker 4: Like she is, she is one of the people I
Speaker 4: am closest to in the world. I'm you know.
Speaker 1: Corey foglemanis is also somebody I am still very close with.
Speaker 1: And I love every single one of those children who
Speaker 1: are now full grown adults with children of their own.
Speaker 2: In some cases they're great kids. They're just great kids.
Speaker 4: Peyton does not have a kid, Kira, is there anything
Speaker 4: you We are nearing the end of our time with you,
Speaker 4: and so is there anything before we go that you
Speaker 4: really want to know or another question you'd like to
Speaker 4: ask us based on what you've learned so far, yess
Speaker 4: kind of to wrap it all up and come back
Speaker 4: to where we started with the parts.
Speaker 2: When you think back to.
Speaker 5: The whole experience on Boy Meets World and with all
Speaker 5: of the information you have now as adults and doing
Speaker 5: this podcast, what are the parts that you think needed
Speaker 5: to really come forward in Boy Meets World And what
Speaker 5: were the parts that like you take with you as
Speaker 5: an adult that king forward for Boy Meets World that
Speaker 5: now serve you as an adult as well.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 1: I mean right back to the beginning of the episode,
Speaker 1: when I was talking about things I'm unpacking in my
Speaker 1: own personal therapy.
Speaker 4: That's right up there, and I think it's very interesting.
Speaker 1: I've always described Topanga as being just on the other
Speaker 1: side of my heart, and I'm really not sure where.
Speaker 1: You know, we've talked about like a hippie Topanga, early Topanga,
Speaker 1: quirky Topanga, unique to Panga, was nothing like teenage Danielle.
Speaker 1: But as Tapanga evolved over the years, and as then
Speaker 1: Danielle has evolved over the years, there are parts of
Speaker 1: us that are just so tied together. I can't see
Speaker 1: where one starts and one ends, and I will be
Speaker 1: interested to see Tapanga is very much the type a
Speaker 1: person that Danielle is, and I will be interested to
Speaker 1: see when we get to some of those later episodes
Speaker 1: that I don't really remember, like the episode of Tapanga
Speaker 1: having a nervous breakdown because her parents get a divorce.
Speaker 1: I don't remember what the conversation around it is, but
Speaker 1: it feels like, with little understanding I have of the
Speaker 1: parts of Danielle that are inside that I haven't tapped into.
Speaker 1: It feels as though Topanga has little parts of her
Speaker 1: that she also did not tap into, that she also
Speaker 1: protected with this kind of, you know, facade of let's
Speaker 1: just get things done and let's be this perfectionist. And
Speaker 1: so I want to I look forward to as I
Speaker 1: discover more about myself while watching Boy Meets World and
Speaker 1: doing this podcast. I look forward to almost therapizing.
Speaker 3: Is that a word?
Speaker 4: Make it a word?
Speaker 1: I like the therapy of Tapanga and thinking about what
Speaker 1: Tapanga may have been repressing or not experiencing, or not
Speaker 1: tapping into, or maybe seemed off the wall. Maybe what
Speaker 1: somebody how she could have been helped in other ways.
Speaker 5: So that would be such an interesting, like acting exercise
Speaker 5: for actors to apply this together. Yeah, absolutely rich the
Speaker 5: performance would be. That's such an interesting way of looking
Speaker 5: at it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, righter, do you want me to go? Do you
Speaker 2: want to go?
Speaker 3: I don't know if I have an answer. Parts of gosh,
Speaker 3: what was the question exactly?
Speaker 5: Parts of myself, the parts of yourself that you think
Speaker 5: really came forward because of Boy Meets World, but that
Speaker 5: you find as an adult. Wow, that's a really to
Speaker 5: keep it positive, that's a really helpful part that I
Speaker 5: had to grow during that time and it really still
Speaker 5: serves me as an adult.
Speaker 3: Definitely, story and storytelling and ability to analyze. I learned
Speaker 3: so much from you know, you know, the like what
Speaker 3: is it like ten thousand hours of doing something. I
Speaker 3: feel like just we got the ten thousand hours on
Speaker 3: Boyle's World, and for me, it didn't end up translating
Speaker 3: to acting it, but it did translate to writing and
Speaker 3: directing and thinking about how to break down story to
Speaker 3: understand beats and I, you know, Michael Jacobs was incredible
Speaker 3: about sharing that information and sharing analysis and man am
Speaker 3: I glad uh and then also the studio teachers that
Speaker 3: we had. I discovered intellectualism, Like I discovered that like,
Speaker 3: oh there's a you know, I got access to the
Speaker 3: world of books and poetry and uh. And I'm realizing
Speaker 3: that that wasn't a coincidence. It was built into boy
Speaker 3: Mets World. It's literally every episode we're referencing Shakespeare or something,
Speaker 3: the great work of literature. And so I don't think
Speaker 3: it was a coincidence that that was part of that development.
Speaker 3: And I've always thought of those things as separate. I
Speaker 3: always thought that, like I ran away to college. You know,
Speaker 3: I ended up a Columbia kind of keeping my head
Speaker 3: down and just going to classes and not acting. But
Speaker 3: in retrospect, that was part of the same journey. Actually,
Speaker 3: there was there was a There was this sort of
Speaker 3: like little writer, you know, who was this budding want
Speaker 3: to be intellectual because of Boy Meets World, because of
Speaker 3: what our set engendered, uh, you know, in front of
Speaker 3: the camera and behind the camera. And so I really
Speaker 3: appreciate that and I'm carrying that into my own writing
Speaker 3: and now I teach and and directing. It's it's I
Speaker 3: use it all the time, and I'm so grateful for that. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it cannot I mean, that's just what an opportunity.
Speaker 6: Wow.
Speaker 2: The thing I took with me from Boy Meets World
Speaker 2: is the harsh and wonderful realization that all of this
Speaker 2: is temporary. So let the beauty wash over you when
Speaker 2: it's there, because eventually none of this matters anymore. So
Speaker 2: for all of us. You got to love while we can,
Speaker 2: and love the people that are around us, and our
Speaker 2: friends and our family, and you're gonna have moments that
Speaker 2: are incredible and moments that aren't so good, and they
Speaker 2: all make you who you are and and then it's over,
Speaker 2: So enjoy it. Why you can? I love that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that can be a powerful for me.
Speaker 5: I know that is a helpful outlook when the anxiety
Speaker 5: takes over, when depression takes over, things take over. It's
Speaker 5: like remembering, like you said, zooming out, being like this
Speaker 5: is a blip in the in the universe, and just
Speaker 5: cherish what is good and ride through the waves of what's.
Speaker 2: Not so good. Yeah. Well, I mean when I when
Speaker 2: I listen to Writer and Danielle, a lot of times
Speaker 2: when they talk about their biggest regret, it's not being
Speaker 2: able to it's wanting to go back and tell themselves
Speaker 2: to relax and enjoy it more. Yeah, And I think
Speaker 2: that's one of the things. I think that's an important thing,
Speaker 2: is enjoy the moment you're in, even the bad ones.
Speaker 2: You might not enjoy it today, but it's going to
Speaker 2: matter to you. It's going to mean something. So we
Speaker 2: need the bad to have the good. Yeah. Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1: Well, Kira, thank you so much for being here with
Speaker 1: us and sharing your wisdom. Thank you for listening to
Speaker 1: every episode. I I'm so happy you were here with
Speaker 1: us for this.
Speaker 4: You were the perfect person. I mean you really were.
Speaker 1: You couldn't have found a more perfect person to help
Speaker 1: guide this episode for us. So I will give all
Speaker 1: of your socials and everything. Kira can be found on
Speaker 1: social media platforms at Kira k I E r A
Speaker 1: m U s c A r A. Did I say
Speaker 1: your name right?
Speaker 4: Kira Muscara, Kira Muscara Pretty Muscarra. Yeah, I'd like to
Speaker 4: make lair on it. It's like the makeup Okay. So
Speaker 4: everyone wants to make it rhyme or do something just
Speaker 4: Kira list.
Speaker 1: I get the same thing Danielle Fischell. People want to
Speaker 1: say and I go, oh, it doesn't rhyme, It doesn't rhyme.
Speaker 1: It's yeah, it's just Danielle Fisher.
Speaker 2: Everyone gets right all the time.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Phil Freedom, super Phil Freedom. Okay.
Speaker 1: So, Kira can be found on social media platforms at
Speaker 1: Kira Muscarra, Mascara and online at Kira Muscara dot com.
Speaker 1: And we want to alert everyone of nine to eight eight,
Speaker 1: which is a number you can now dial as the
Speaker 1: National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline. It is a great general
Speaker 1: resource for anyone seeking urgent mental health support. And Kira
Speaker 1: recommends Psychology Today dot com Alma and Headway for anyone
Speaker 1: who is looking for a therapist of their own. So, Kira,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. Everyone go give her a follow
Speaker 1: and yeah, thank you for being here with us. Everyone
Speaker 1: as always, Thank you, Kia.
Speaker 5: Thanks, thank you guys so much for having me and
Speaker 5: for just keeping the conversation open throughout the whole experience.
Speaker 3: Come back for season three. We'll just keep doing it.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 3: I can't believe how much we just talked.
Speaker 2: I'm sure there will only be more unpack on when
Speaker 2: you do come back. I think you by this point
Speaker 2: you've realized with how much we talk, we each get
Speaker 2: about one question.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we're gonna go off. I'm sure maybe
Speaker 3: we should do individual therapy sessions with Kara. We should
Speaker 3: just do an episode. That's just.
Speaker 4: Well, thank you so much, Kira, Thank.
Speaker 2: Bye, bye bye. Well that was fun.
Speaker 3: We talked a lot.
Speaker 2: That was the That was the roller coaster equivalent of
Speaker 2: the Goofy Sky School.
Speaker 3: Were you tense? Were intense?
Speaker 5: Will?
Speaker 2: I was? Yeah, I was.
Speaker 3: I wasn't.
Speaker 2: I just it's I just it's very it's a personal thing,
Speaker 2: you know, it's just a very personal thing. Therapy. So
Speaker 2: the idea of you know, talking about boy Metrol and
Speaker 2: putting in the context of boy Metrol is different for
Speaker 2: me than sitting down and you know, you have a
Speaker 2: bond with your therapist. And I didn't know this woman,
Speaker 2: and she's wonderful, but it's it's kind of like, hey,
Speaker 2: let's talk about some of your stuff now. To everybody,
Speaker 2: it's just I don't know, it's weird to me.
Speaker 4: Will doesn't like to talk to people about politics. Uh, therapy, Yeah,
Speaker 4: money makes yeah, don't.
Speaker 3: I'm an open wound. I've just you know, it's it's
Speaker 3: one of the reasons I've only gone to therapy a
Speaker 3: couple of times and never for anything any extended period
Speaker 3: of time. And I think it's partly because I'm always
Speaker 3: therapizing my therapy.
Speaker 4: That's the word I came up with, therapus.
Speaker 3: I am constantly, you know, and I think, much to
Speaker 3: the dismay of my wife and my friends in my life,
Speaker 3: I'm always like psychoanalyzing myself and discussing it. But yeah,
Speaker 3: I should probably compartmentalize that and actually pay somebody to
Speaker 3: do it.
Speaker 2: It's wonderful if you find the right person. It's absolutely wonderful.
Speaker 3: It really is.
Speaker 2: And I again I did it for a finite amount
Speaker 2: of time when I had my when anxiety is really
Speaker 2: bad a couple of years. But it was great. It's
Speaker 2: just you're sitting there, somebody's you know, somebody who's trained
Speaker 2: to do it, is sitting and listening to you talk
Speaker 2: and analyz. It's really helpful. It's really helpful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm I'm loving it and writer to your point,
Speaker 1: I am also like always questioning always, but truthfully, there
Speaker 1: have been things that I reached a point where I.
Speaker 4: Was like, I don't have an answer to this. I
Speaker 4: don't know why I don't.
Speaker 1: I'm questioning. I'm going like what what is this? Where
Speaker 1: are these emotions coming from?
Speaker 4: Where? What is this happening?
Speaker 1: Like I had a total wall about certain things like
Speaker 1: and behavior i'd like to change where I like to
Speaker 1: think I could just power through it and mind over
Speaker 1: matter and change this behavior, but like occurring behavior that
Speaker 1: I just can't seem to change, and so it's like
Speaker 1: I obviously need help for that. And it's so it's
Speaker 1: been truly, it's been truly incredible.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, there's also there's things that you don't recognize in
Speaker 2: yourself that you need somebody else to point out to
Speaker 2: you where it's like I didn't even know that I
Speaker 2: was doing that. It's like, yeah, you you are, and
Speaker 2: you can talk about that too. So self realization. Self
Speaker 2: actualization is absolutely wonderful, but occasionally need somebody who's just
Speaker 2: staring at the painting to go, like, we need to
Speaker 2: talk about this part too.
Speaker 1: That's exactly right, It's exactly right. Well, thank you all
Speaker 1: for joining us for this episode of Pod Meets World.
Speaker 1: We've hope You've hope you cried like I did. You
Speaker 1: can follow us on Instagram pod meets World Show.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: You can follow us on Instagram at pod meets World Show.
Speaker 1: You can send us your emails pod meets World Show
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. And as always, we have.
Speaker 2: Merch Tell me about your merchandise.
Speaker 1: Pod meets Worldshow dot com. We'll see y'all next time.
Speaker 1: Writer send us out.
Speaker 3: We love you all, pod dismissed. Podmeets World is an
Speaker 3: iHeart podcast produced and hosted by Danielle Fischel, Wilfredell and
Speaker 3: Ryder Strong. Executive producers Jensen Karp and Amy Sugarman. Executive
Speaker 3: in charge of production, Danielle Romo, Producer and editor Tara
Speaker 3: Sudbach producer, Jackie Rodriguez, engineer and Boy Meets World superfan
Speaker 3: Easton Allen. Our theme song is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon.
Speaker 3: You can follow us on Instagram at Podmets World Show
Speaker 3: or send us an email at Podmeats World Show at
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