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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, your home for

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Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan. In this is episode number three

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Speaker 1: seventy and today we're hearing from six different white tail

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Speaker 1: experts on the ins and outs of hunting deer during

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Speaker 1: the month of October. All right, welcome to the Wired

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Speaker 1: to Hunt podcast, brought to you by on X. Today

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Speaker 1: we're celebrating the month of October. It's here, and let

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Speaker 1: me tell you what. I am really really excited about it. Uh,

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Speaker 1: that's no surprise, I suppose anyone listening. I'm sure you're

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Speaker 1: pretty excited as well. This is an amazing time of year.

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Speaker 1: I just wrote an article actually over at the Meat

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Speaker 1: Eater website in which I made the claim that October

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Speaker 1: is the most interesting month of the entire hunting season.

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Speaker 1: And I say this because it's this month full of

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Speaker 1: tension and anticipation. It's it's it's just like the analogy

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Speaker 1: I used is a roller coaster that you know, that

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Speaker 1: first hill of a roller coaster when you're just slowly

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Speaker 1: going up and there's that click click click click click

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Speaker 1: as you get closer and closer and closer and closer

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Speaker 1: to the top, and then you get to the very

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Speaker 1: top and it's, oh my god, it's about to just

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Speaker 1: drop off from underneath me. That feeling, that rise, that's

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Speaker 1: what October is like for me. That month just slowly

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Speaker 1: builds towards the rut, and you know, any second now

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Speaker 1: things could just go crazy. But you don't know when

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Speaker 1: that's gonna be. It could be it might not be

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Speaker 1: till the very end of the month, but it could

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Speaker 1: also be October three when a big cold front comes

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Speaker 1: pushing through and the woods just lights up, or that

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Speaker 1: first early dough comes in the heat on October fift

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Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, it's it's nuts. That can

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Speaker 1: happen at any point, and even if that doesn't happen,

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Speaker 1: it's just the slow, steady rise of testosterone in the

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Speaker 1: bucks and excitement for all of us, and each day

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Speaker 1: it's going to be different. Speaking of that difference, there's

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Speaker 1: just this incredible diversity to the month, where you know,

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Speaker 1: what's going on in October one is very different from

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Speaker 1: what's going on and from how you should hunt on

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Speaker 1: October fift, which then again is even more different from

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Speaker 1: what you're doing on October thirty one. There's there's almost

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Speaker 1: three different hunting seasons just within the month of October.

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Speaker 1: So for all of those reasons, I wanted to take

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Speaker 1: a step back today and and kind of try to

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Speaker 1: get a big picture strategy session going on for all

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Speaker 1: things October. And to do that, I wanted to to

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Speaker 1: use a diverse set of voices and a bunch of

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Speaker 1: different ideas here and and I'm lucky we have that

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Speaker 1: kind of resource right at our fingertips here on the

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Speaker 1: wire Hunt podcast, because we've been doing these things, having

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Speaker 1: these conversations with the best of the best in the

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Speaker 1: white tailed world for seven years now. Myself and Dan

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Speaker 1: Johnson we got this thing cracking in the spring of

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Speaker 1: two thousand four, teens. We've been doing this for what

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Speaker 1: seems like a lifetime. And what I've realized though, is

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Speaker 1: that we're recently here. A lot of you who have

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Speaker 1: just joined us in the past couple of years, you've

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Speaker 1: missed out on a lot of really good stuff from

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Speaker 1: those early podcasts, some really foundational conversations back in Chosen

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Speaker 1: fourteen fifteen sixteen, and it really hasn't seen the light

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Speaker 1: of day compared to our recent things. So here's my

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Speaker 1: game plan for this one. I've gone back through our

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Speaker 1: archives and selected six different white tail experts from those

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Speaker 1: early episodes who covered various aspects of hunting in October.

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Speaker 1: I went back and listened to those and I hand

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Speaker 1: picked a selection of excerpts from those conversations. And sometimes

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Speaker 1: those are five minutes, sometimes it's twenty minutes. But on

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Speaker 1: piece together, between these six different people, you get this

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Speaker 1: very interesting, very varied, very varied what I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: say is very diverse set of ideas for hunting throughout

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Speaker 1: the upcoming month. Now, keep in mind, when you're listening

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Speaker 1: to this set of experts and these different people, you're

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Speaker 1: going to hear some conflicting ideas. One person is going

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Speaker 1: to say one thing, the next person might say something

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Speaker 1: completely the opposite. And I don't think that's a bad thing.

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Speaker 1: I think that's an interesting and good thing. And if

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Speaker 1: you've listened to this podcast over the years, I've I've

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Speaker 1: said this time and time again. I'm gonna say it again.

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Speaker 1: There are a million different ways to skin this cat,

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Speaker 1: that being hunting and killing deer. There's a lot of

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Speaker 1: different ways to do it, and You can have totally

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Speaker 1: different ideas from one person to the next, and they

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Speaker 1: can both be very successful. So I love comparing and

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Speaker 1: contrasting these different sets of strategies and circumstances when you're

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Speaker 1: when you listen to this, listen to these people, think

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Speaker 1: about the circumstances that they're in, the types of place

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Speaker 1: is they're hunting, the way that they hunt, and then

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Speaker 1: compare and contrast that to what you have in what

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Speaker 1: your situation is. Do you hunt public your private? Do

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Speaker 1: you hunt big farms or small farms? Do you hunt

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Speaker 1: you know, do you have a lot of time to hunt,

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Speaker 1: just a few days to hunt? Think about those things

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Speaker 1: as you listen to these people, and I think that's

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Speaker 1: going to help you figure out what's the best set

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Speaker 1: of ideas to pull from this to apply to your

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Speaker 1: own hunts. Now here's who's up to bat today. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna hear from Gordon Whittington, Dan Infult, Bernie Beranger, Jeff Sturgis,

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Speaker 1: Adam Hayes, and Mark Drewy in that order. Now, keep

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Speaker 1: in mind, these are just little polls from much larger conversations.

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Speaker 1: So if you're intrigued with, you know, with any one

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Speaker 1: of these experts, I'd really encourage you to go back

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Speaker 1: search for the full episode with each person and give

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Speaker 1: those a listen. Um, when we get to the beginning

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Speaker 1: of each different person, I'm gonna mention who it is

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Speaker 1: and then what number of that episode is, so you

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Speaker 1: can easily go back into your podcast app and and

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Speaker 1: find that one these are. These are way back there,

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Speaker 1: so you have to do a little searching. But every

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Speaker 1: one of these is really good in their own way,

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Speaker 1: so it would definitely recommend to do that. Before that, though,

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Speaker 1: I guess one last thing I want to do. I

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Speaker 1: want to give you a few things to think about

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Speaker 1: from from my perspective as someone who sat here for

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Speaker 1: seven years now hearing from all of these folks and more,

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Speaker 1: and trying to synthesize all of this down into a

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Speaker 1: few guiding principles. Um. I I don't claim to be

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Speaker 1: in the same level as any of these guys, but

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Speaker 1: I think if any of you have followed along since

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Speaker 1: excuse me, since the beginning, it's I've had. I've had

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Speaker 1: a cool opportunity to to take all these different tips

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Speaker 1: and tactics and ways of hunting, take it all in

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Speaker 1: and guinea pigs. Some of these things myself. So for

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Speaker 1: whatever it's worth, here's a few of my high level

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Speaker 1: October hunting one oh one pointer. I guess a few

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Speaker 1: of the of the big if I were writing an

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Speaker 1: article or if I were writing a book even on

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Speaker 1: hunting October, these might be four really important chapters of

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Speaker 1: that book. So I'm gonna give you the high level

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Speaker 1: on that. That'll be a good starting point, and then

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Speaker 1: from they're gonna send you in to these in depth,

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Speaker 1: much more detailed conversations with these six people. So here's

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Speaker 1: my starting points for October number one. If you have

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Speaker 1: an October one opener, like we do in Michigan, you've

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Speaker 1: got a really unique opportunity coming up. Right. If you're

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Speaker 1: listening to this on the day of this podcast drops,

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Speaker 1: it is October one, and those first couple of days

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Speaker 1: of the month represent one of your very best chances

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Speaker 1: of the entire season. And you know, if you had

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Speaker 1: a September fifteenth opener, you had that special opportunity on

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Speaker 1: September fifteenth, if you've had a September one opener, etcetera, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: But but for those of us listening today in Michigan

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Speaker 1: or elsewhere, Illinois was a whole bunch of states opening

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Speaker 1: right now. Those first couple of days of the month

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Speaker 1: represent this special chance because these deer have not been

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Speaker 1: heavily pressured up to this point. So I love taking

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Speaker 1: a big swing on one of those first couple of days.

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Speaker 1: These they are still acting relatively normal, They're still much

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Speaker 1: more daylight active than they might be a week or

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Speaker 1: two from now, and they're on those patterns to a degree,

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Speaker 1: they're still on a bedding to feeding pattern. So what

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Speaker 1: you want to do is have as much information at

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Speaker 1: your fingertips as possible. Maybe that's trail camera images, Maybe

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Speaker 1: that is actual long distance observations that you're doing in

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Speaker 1: the knights leading up to the opener. Maybe this is

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Speaker 1: historical data sightings and pictures from last year and the

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Speaker 1: year before. But take whatever information you have to put

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Speaker 1: together the very best guess at where you think that

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Speaker 1: Buck or Bucks in general would be feeding right now.

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Speaker 1: Because it's really a food game in early October, you

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Speaker 1: need to know what that top food sources and then

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Speaker 1: take an aggressive swing into the very best spot you

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Speaker 1: can think of given that. So again you need to

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Speaker 1: identify what the number one food sources right now and

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Speaker 1: get as close to that food source and to wherever

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Speaker 1: the best betting is, where you've come to find box

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Speaker 1: or betting, try to get in between that and aggressively

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Speaker 1: put yourself in the best position. Again, I like to

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Speaker 1: go for that top, top option right now, because again

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Speaker 1: you've got a little window here October one, October two,

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Speaker 1: maybe the third, and then if there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: pressure around you, you know, by the tenth eleven, it

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Speaker 1: could be a totally different ball game. So take that

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Speaker 1: aggressive swing at the top food source right now. Now,

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Speaker 1: as I mentioned, things can quickly change, and as you're

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Speaker 1: gonna hear from a bunch of people coming up, and

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Speaker 1: as I'm sure many of you've heard in the past,

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Speaker 1: there is this thing that a lot of people refer

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Speaker 1: to as the October lull. Right, people say, well, once

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Speaker 1: you get into October, you know, the second week, third week,

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Speaker 1: even you know, once you get into the first past

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Speaker 1: the first couple of days of October, you're gonna get

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Speaker 1: this October lull, which a lot of people see as

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Speaker 1: this this decrease in daylight dear activity. Because of that,

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Speaker 1: a lot people don't like to hunt during mid October,

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Speaker 1: or we'll just hunt does in mid October or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Here's my perspective on this is that it's not so

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Speaker 1: much a lull as it is a shift. You have

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Speaker 1: studies have shown a steady increase in dear activity and

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Speaker 1: buck activity throughout the month, but that's not necessarily what

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Speaker 1: a lot of people see. And that's because after the

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Speaker 1: first week of October, so a bunch of things are

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Speaker 1: changing in the woods. Number one, a lot more deer hunters.

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Speaker 1: Number two, a lot of changing food sources. Right, if

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Speaker 1: you hunt an egg land, you know, farm country, your

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Speaker 1: beans are drying down and not as attractive anymore. Corn

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Speaker 1: is drying down and becoming more attractive. You probably have

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Speaker 1: a lot of acorns possibly dropping. You're gonna have other

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Speaker 1: soft massed trees like apple tree starting to drop apples

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Speaker 1: in certain parts of the country. Not only that, but

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Speaker 1: you've got leaf cover dropping across the country as it

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Speaker 1: gets colder. So you have changing food sources and changing cover,

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Speaker 1: also coding siding with more hunting pressure. All that just

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Speaker 1: means a lot of change in dear activity. They're going

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Speaker 1: to react to those changes. They're gonna just where the

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Speaker 1: hunting pressure is. So this just means there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of movement not that you're gonna see, but movement in patterns.

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Speaker 1: So these bucks might still be daylight active, they might

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Speaker 1: still be on your property, but because of some of

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Speaker 1: these changes, because of hunting pressure, whatever it is, they

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Speaker 1: might just be doing this closer to their bedding areas.

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Speaker 1: Or maybe they're not hitting that big old bean field

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Speaker 1: that you saw them on a month ago, but they're

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Speaker 1: hitting acorns in the timber. You've got one of two

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Speaker 1: options in my mind for the middle of October, this

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Speaker 1: October shift time frame. I'm gonna say this is October

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Speaker 1: seven through October twenty one, maybe give or take um.

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Speaker 1: I think if you don't know your area, or if

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Speaker 1: you are relatively inexperienced, or if you just don't have

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Speaker 1: a strong handle on how dear react to those changes

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Speaker 1: I just described, this might be a time to play

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Speaker 1: a little more safe hunt the edges, observe um. Maybe

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Speaker 1: target does. Maybe if you've got like one small property

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Speaker 1: that's your best stuff. Maybe you don't hunt your best

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Speaker 1: stuff right now. Maybe you go and hunt some nearby

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Speaker 1: public land and experiment, try different things, get aggressive there,

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Speaker 1: but without blowing out your honey hole quite yet. That's

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Speaker 1: if you don't have a strong handle on your spots.

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Speaker 1: But if you do have a strong handle, or if

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Speaker 1: you are really experienced, you know your property as well,

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Speaker 1: you've scouted, you know where these bucks are betting. If

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Speaker 1: you have that kind of intelligence not I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: like i Q, I'm saying like intel, like uh, scouting information.

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Speaker 1: If you have that kind of stuff, it can be

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Speaker 1: a good time to get aggressive because these bucks are

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Speaker 1: still on a pattern. They are still tight to their

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Speaker 1: core areas. So if you know that stuff, they're they're killable.

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Speaker 1: You'll hear from people like Dan Infult who this is

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Speaker 1: a great time for them because they know where those

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Speaker 1: buck bedrooms are and they go in tight and they

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Speaker 1: hit those things hard and they can have success. So

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Speaker 1: you either play it safe or you have to be

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Speaker 1: very aggressive to get into these spots where these bucks

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Speaker 1: are still daylight active. It's just high risk, high reward.

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Speaker 1: So think about that number three. October really is a

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Speaker 1: month of playing the weather game. Uh. You can have

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Speaker 1: a situation that just happened here a few days ago,

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Speaker 1: so there's a little bit pre October. But just you know,

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Speaker 1: the very last couple of days of September, we had

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Speaker 1: a big cold front past through here in Michigan, and

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Speaker 1: it just lit up the woods. I mean, I was

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Speaker 1: glass in an area last night and I saw eight

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Speaker 1: or nine different bucks on their feet two hours before dark,

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Speaker 1: a full hour plus earlier than I've seen any of

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Speaker 1: these bucks moving until this front hit and then bam,

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Speaker 1: here they are, including a mature buck. There was sparring,

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Speaker 1: they were scraping, and it was directly linked in my

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Speaker 1: mind to this big twenty degree temperature drops. So when

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Speaker 1: you get those big temperature drops, you gotta jump on them.

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Speaker 1: You gotta go and take advantage of them. Most of

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Speaker 1: month of October is predicated on when this good weather

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Speaker 1: comes through. When it's swarm and creddy, I might still hunt,

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Speaker 1: but I'm not gonna hunt my good stuff. But when

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Speaker 1: the good fronts push through, I'm gonna take my swings.

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Speaker 1: That's when I'm going to strike. Okay. And finally, speaking

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Speaker 1: of strikes, this last portion of the month that last

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Speaker 1: ten days or so, really the last six or seven

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Speaker 1: days of the month. If I'm drilling down even further,

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Speaker 1: this is one of your very best chances the of

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Speaker 1: the year. In my mind, You've got this moment and

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Speaker 1: you're gonna here. Mark jury talks talk about this where

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Speaker 1: you have two things coming together in a special way.

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Speaker 1: You've got bucks that are still hanging tight to their

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Speaker 1: core areas and they're still on a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a pattern. So if you know a buck, or if

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Speaker 1: you know where a couple of bucks are spending a

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Speaker 1: lot of time, and you've got history with his deer

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Speaker 1: and you know your property, well, you can still have

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Speaker 1: confidence that they're gonna do that thing. They're still going

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Speaker 1: to be in that area, you know, but that pattern

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Speaker 1: is overlapping. Think of like a ven diagram where this

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Speaker 1: overlap is. This is overlapping also with the beginning of

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Speaker 1: the rut. So you've got the super high testosterone. You've

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Speaker 1: got bucks that are looking for the first dough. Maybe

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Speaker 1: the first dough does come into heat. That's all happening

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Speaker 1: while these bucks are still hanging out in that area

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Speaker 1: that you know. So you can kill these bucks in spots,

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Speaker 1: you know, while they're still hanging on the spots, you

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Speaker 1: can hunt and they're getting a little frisky. Early ten

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Speaker 1: days later November seven, this this pattern can be blown up.

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Speaker 1: Now they're doing crazy things. Now they're running all over

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Speaker 1: the place. These bucks are roaming a mile down the

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Speaker 1: road instead of writing your forty acres. So take advantage

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Speaker 1: of that last window in October. Take a surgical strike

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Speaker 1: into these spots where you know these bucks are living.

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Speaker 1: But now you've got the chance they're gonna move an

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Speaker 1: hour early. And if somehow you can get that cold

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Speaker 1: front that hits in late October, holy smokes. Get in there.

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Speaker 1: Canceled work, canceled dinner plans, uh, whatever you gotta do.

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Speaker 1: That is that's the good stuff right there. So those

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Speaker 1: are four high level October ideas to think about over

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Speaker 1: the next thirty one days. There's a lot more we're

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Speaker 1: gonna get into with these next six people, though, a

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Speaker 1: lot of good ideas. We're gonna kind of bounce around

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Speaker 1: a lot. You're gonna hear about, you know, should you

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Speaker 1: hunt mornings or not. You're gonna hear what do you

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Speaker 1: think about the October law. You're gonna hear about different

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Speaker 1: stands that you different stand ideas you should think about.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna hear about different weather conditions and how these

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Speaker 1: guys think about them during October. A lot of different stuff.

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Speaker 1: But keep in mind these four high level ideas. Keep

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Speaker 1: in mind when it's in the very beginning, try to

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Speaker 1: cherry pick what you can use from all these different things.

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Speaker 1: And finally, as we get through this, these are interviews

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Speaker 1: I described as I mentioned from two thousand, fourteen fifteen sixteen.

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Speaker 1: This is a long time ago. So you're gonna hear

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Speaker 1: myself and Dan Johnson, who helped me out with a

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Speaker 1: lot of these early episodes. You're gonna hear us asking

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Speaker 1: some questions or even sharing some of our perspectives that

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Speaker 1: might be different than and what I think right now.

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Speaker 1: So anything I say during these old school interviews take

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Speaker 1: with a grain of salt. This is this is young Mark,

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Speaker 1: this is old Mark. This is old Dan. And you'll

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Speaker 1: hear me called Dan Dallas too, that was his old nickname.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna get a little old school here. But when

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Speaker 1: you're hearing from our guests, it's some good stuff. It's

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Speaker 1: some varied stuff. And I guess you know, as I'm

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Speaker 1: building all this stuff, you don't want to hear from

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Speaker 1: me anymore. Let's let's stop with the Mark Kenyan rambling.

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Speaker 1: Let's get into our six expert opinions are October Masterclass,

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Speaker 1: and we're gonna kick this off with Gordon Whittington of

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Speaker 1: North American White Tail Magazine for the fifteen minutes actually

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Speaker 1: before you came onto the show with us, me and Dan,

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Speaker 1: we're just talking about our October hunting woes, all of

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00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:49,760
Speaker 1: things have gone wrong for us, and how we have

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Speaker 1: not killed a deer yet. Um. And that's kind of

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Speaker 1: what I wanted to start our conversation with Gordon was

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Speaker 1: just about some of the challenges of hunting this time

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Speaker 1: of year we're entering and we've all heard a thousand

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Speaker 1: times were entering this period of the season that many

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Speaker 1: people referred to as the October Law. Um, I guess

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Speaker 1: maybe what do you think about that, Gordon? Is there

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Speaker 1: such a thing? Do you believe that the October law is?

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Speaker 1: Is that factor fiction? Well, I think there is no

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Speaker 1: question that at various times of the fall, and really

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Speaker 1: year round obviously, but during the time of year when

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Speaker 1: hunting is legal. We all know there are times a

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Speaker 1: year when your probability of seeing a mature buck on

349
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Speaker 1: his feet in legal shooting light are better than others.

350
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Speaker 1: It depends on habitat, weather, moon phase, but mostly hunting

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Speaker 1: pressure to some extent, habitat type. There's all these different

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00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:49,760
Speaker 1: factors involved, dear densities, so many things, but I would

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Speaker 1: say that in general, if you if you talk to

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Speaker 1: the guys who have let's say, like in Michigan, October

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Speaker 1: one bow opener of the illinor it that way, you know,

356
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Speaker 1: right around October one, at least you've got you know,

357
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,000
Speaker 1: the deer have been out of velvet for three weeks

358
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Speaker 1: to a month. The bucks are you know, of course,

359
00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:14,080
Speaker 1: somewhat reclusive and solitary. Really when they come out of velvet,

360
00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:16,760
Speaker 1: they come other bachelor groups. They really go into a

361
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Speaker 1: short travel pattern. They don't move much in daylight. Even

362
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,399
Speaker 1: if they're not spook or being hunted, they're not moving

363
00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,239
Speaker 1: a long way to food. And you know, maybe out

364
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Speaker 1: in the prairie of Wyoming you've got deer walking two

365
00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:31,080
Speaker 1: miles when alfalfa fielding back, you know, even in early season.

366
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Speaker 1: But for the most part, in most habitats you have

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Speaker 1: deer on a very short travel pattern. And that's you know,

368
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Speaker 1: compounded by the fact that then suddenly we get the

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Speaker 1: acorns and the other fall masts that starts to come

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Speaker 1: into play. And that's so that's mostly back in the

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Speaker 1: woods and we're trying to kill these deer on the

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Speaker 1: edges because we don't want to penetrate their sanctuaries, and

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Speaker 1: yet their sanctuaries might literally have acorns dropping into their

374
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Speaker 1: bedding areas. As those deer lying there waiting for dark, Well,

375
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Speaker 1: that deer has got very little and sent him. Unless

376
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Speaker 1: he's really thirsty, he's got very little incentive to get

377
00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:05,479
Speaker 1: up and move much in daylight. And I think if

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Speaker 1: you look at Reggio telemetry and you look at all

379
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,440
Speaker 1: the different GPS studies that have been done on while deer,

380
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:12,920
Speaker 1: you'll see that mature bucks just have a very short

381
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:16,040
Speaker 1: travel pattern at this time of year. So there aren't

382
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Speaker 1: if you have the terminus, let's say is a food plot,

383
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Speaker 1: and it may be the best food plot in the county,

384
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,240
Speaker 1: and you may have the best bedding area two yards

385
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:27,520
Speaker 1: away from there in a swamp or something. If that

386
00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:29,639
Speaker 1: buck is in that swamp and he's going to that

387
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:32,399
Speaker 1: food plot at night, he's got very little ground to

388
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:34,439
Speaker 1: cover to get there, and he can get on his

389
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,080
Speaker 1: feet right at dark, you know, stretch a little bit,

390
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:40,560
Speaker 1: rubbed his rack a couple of times, and then prance

391
00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:42,600
Speaker 1: right out to the food plot, and he's already too

392
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:45,240
Speaker 1: late for you to kill him. Now, that's just the

393
00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:47,960
Speaker 1: fact a lie that you know, hunting pressure didn't necessarily

394
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,720
Speaker 1: cause that. It might have accentuated that pattern, but it

395
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,960
Speaker 1: didn't really cause it. He's just got no incentive to

396
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,920
Speaker 1: get there early. He's also got no incentive to stay

397
00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,360
Speaker 1: there after daylight in the morning. By the time you

398
00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:01,679
Speaker 1: got daylight coming over with a food plot, he's normally

399
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:03,760
Speaker 1: back in a place where you can't get him killed.

400
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,240
Speaker 1: So these are just realities, and he's not very responsive

401
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,119
Speaker 1: to rattling or calling. Generally speaking, you don't want a

402
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:12,200
Speaker 1: good deer drive. There's all sorts of things that you're

403
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,560
Speaker 1: not going to do an early season that otherwise might

404
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:19,520
Speaker 1: compensate for that lack of mobility on his partner's a

405
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,920
Speaker 1: lack of a daytime pattern. You put all that together,

406
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:26,040
Speaker 1: and that's a really long winded way of saying, Uh,

407
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,080
Speaker 1: they're hard to kill now, but but we understand why

408
00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,119
Speaker 1: they're hard to kill. They're just not on their feet

409
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,080
Speaker 1: much in daylight. And and I don't know what you

410
00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:38,280
Speaker 1: can ultimately do to change that pattern very much. Trail

411
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,280
Speaker 1: cameras clearly have made it easier for us to pinpoint

412
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,399
Speaker 1: those locations where they're spending time, but you have to

413
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,160
Speaker 1: be very careful not to blow the deer out, either

414
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,240
Speaker 1: checking cameras or going in to hunt that spot, and

415
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,440
Speaker 1: a lot of guys just get so impatient, and early

416
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,679
Speaker 1: season there's like, oh, man, Paul's finally here. I've been

417
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,160
Speaker 1: waiting all all year to get in the tree. I'm going, well,

418
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:00,520
Speaker 1: when is not quite right, I'm going anywhere, you know,

419
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:04,080
Speaker 1: I gotta go with Saturday. I'm going, well, you can

420
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:05,679
Speaker 1: go and blow him out and not see him a

421
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:07,640
Speaker 1: game for three months and have your neighbor killing three

422
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,040
Speaker 1: weeks later. And that's a lot of times. It's just

423
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:13,080
Speaker 1: the reality of what happens is that we just don't

424
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:18,480
Speaker 1: have the discipline to wait for better conditions. So would

425
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 1: you typically recommend Let's say we've got someone who's hunting

426
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:25,920
Speaker 1: in that type of scenario you just listed there where

427
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:29,040
Speaker 1: he's not getting daily troal camera pictures of a buck.

428
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:31,800
Speaker 1: He's not seeing daily activity from a buck yet because

429
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 1: of that situation, right, he's this buck doesn't need to

430
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,160
Speaker 1: travel very far. Maybe he hasn't been overly pressured yet,

431
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,000
Speaker 1: but he just doesn't have that incentive to move during

432
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,719
Speaker 1: daily So that's our scenario. Would you tell this person

433
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 1: all right, I guess would you typically think this hope

434
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:47,480
Speaker 1: of person should wait until the rut, or are there

435
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,480
Speaker 1: some things that they should do now to try to

436
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:54,920
Speaker 1: still make it happen. I would. I would go to

437
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,119
Speaker 1: a separate area and try to get my dose shot.

438
00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:59,199
Speaker 1: That's the first thing I would focus on. If I

439
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,560
Speaker 1: can't get him in the in the setup that I

440
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:06,160
Speaker 1: feel is most likely to produce an opportunity in the

441
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 1: first time or two or three, that I sit there

442
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:13,400
Speaker 1: during the earliest days of season and catch him unaware

443
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 1: and possibly get him shot before he knows the season

444
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 1: it's even open. If I can't do that, I'm gonna

445
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,360
Speaker 1: pull out. I'm gonna go somewhere else. I'm gonna try

446
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,440
Speaker 1: to get my doze shot, Or to be honest with you,

447
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 1: for many of us, it's I'm gonna try to get

448
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 1: all my jobs done around the house so that when

449
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,480
Speaker 1: prime time gets here, I can spend more time in

450
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,440
Speaker 1: the woods. And I do think that's some of It's

451
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 1: a function of time allocation. We all have limited time,

452
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,960
Speaker 1: even those of us who hunt quote for a living,

453
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 1: we all still have other things in our life we

454
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:44,879
Speaker 1: have to do, and the worst thing in the world

455
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,119
Speaker 1: is to put all those off hunt hard in October,

456
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 1: mess up your spot didn't come the fifth and November,

457
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,680
Speaker 1: and realize you're behind on your honey dues, and then

458
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,440
Speaker 1: have to spend three days in prime time catching up

459
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 1: so you can then go and chase deer again. I mean,

460
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,440
Speaker 1: I think sometimes we just don't have a really good

461
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,120
Speaker 1: game plan. And because of that. It's not to say

462
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 1: people don't kill big ones in October lad in mid October.

463
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:07,760
Speaker 1: They certainly do. I mean there's been some big ones

464
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 1: kill the last you know, a couple of weeks all

465
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 1: over North America. But the number of people hunting relative

466
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 1: the number of big deer opportunities is with a pretty

467
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:21,640
Speaker 1: skewed ratio. Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think it's hard

468
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 1: to argue with that that it's definitely possible, but at

469
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 1: the same time as challenging, at least from everything I've

470
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 1: ever learned and from all the different people we've talked

471
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 1: to on this podcast, I think, you know, one of

472
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 1: the big things that comes down to is, you know,

473
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 1: there's certain types of conditions, or certain little weak spots

474
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 1: in a big box armor of sorts that you can

475
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 1: take advantage of if you have that perfect scenario for it.

476
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,640
Speaker 1: But eight times out ten, you know, either you don't

477
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:48,919
Speaker 1: have that scenario or you don't have all the intel

478
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: that you need to make a smart move, or whatever

479
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 1: it might be. Eight times out of ten, usually smarter

480
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 1: bet is to wait until those right conditions, because to

481
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 1: your point, when you start pushing in there and doing

482
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,120
Speaker 1: things before at the times, right before the scenario was right,

483
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,440
Speaker 1: you're just gonna muck things up before you ever even

484
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 1: had a chance. And then when you might have had

485
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 1: that better chance, maybe in late October or November, whatever

486
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:12,439
Speaker 1: it is, or when the cold front comes through, you know,

487
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 1: now you can't take advantage of that because you've already

488
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 1: educated that buck. And that's a tough lesson to learn. Yeah,

489
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 1: it's difficult, and I could never blame anybody for saying, Look,

490
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 1: I just flat enjoyed being in the deerwoods, and even

491
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,400
Speaker 1: if it messes up my chances of killing the big one,

492
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 1: I want to go. Well, how on earth could you

493
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,160
Speaker 1: tell a guy that you shouldn't go? I mean, I

494
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 1: you know, a deer. Deer hunting is supposed to be

495
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: to be fun, and if that's fun to him and

496
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 1: he's legal and safe and ethical, then good for him.

497
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 1: I mean, I hope he shoots one, but if he

498
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 1: doesn't shoot one, I at least know that he was

499
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,160
Speaker 1: out there, you know, exercising his right and the privilege

500
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 1: to go hunting and be part of the American hunting

501
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 1: force that we're all so proud of. So I don't

502
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 1: really and it's hard me to bash that guy and say, oh,

503
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 1: you're crazy or you're not being smart. I mean, I

504
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 1: would like for him to see the payoff for doing

505
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: things a little different way. But I'm never going to

506
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 1: bash him because he made a quote poor decision and

507
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 1: and educated the buck that he might have otherwise shot.

508
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's his call, not mine. Yeah. Now,

509
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: given your position, you know, with North American Whitetail magazine,

510
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 1: you get to hear a live different perspectives from other

511
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,199
Speaker 1: writers and hunters who do sometimes push a little bit

512
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 1: more in October and have success. Are there any I

513
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,719
Speaker 1: don't know, any standout tactics that you have seen from

514
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 1: some of these other guys who do like to focus

515
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 1: on October that either intrigue you the most or that

516
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 1: you think have the most merit. Well, I think if you,

517
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 1: I thank you, You've got control of your land and

518
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 1: have a tactic where you can have number one, a

519
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 1: very relaxed deer herd, you know, and and and go

520
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 1: out of your way to minimize the pressure on those

521
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 1: deers so that you can wait for that little cool

522
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: front that really gets the buck a little bit more active,

523
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 1: you know, a little earlier in the evening, coming out

524
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 1: to the plot, and you've got a plot set up

525
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 1: so that you've got places between bedding and feeding where

526
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 1: you can get him shot. I do feel like if

527
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,159
Speaker 1: you can, if you can almost landscape your proper or

528
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 1: your hunting area that way, or or put the scouting

529
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,679
Speaker 1: in to find those situations that clearly that's going to

530
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 1: give you an advantage over the guy who's just randomly

531
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 1: going to go say, well there's acorns falling here, and

532
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 1: there's some deer pellets. I think i'll set here. Um yeah,

533
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 1: he might kill the many world record, but the chances

534
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:33,880
Speaker 1: are better for the guy who's actually got a plan,

535
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 1: as we all know. So so I look at it

536
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,879
Speaker 1: and say, yeah, if you can find that, you know

537
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,400
Speaker 1: a place where deer or pushed a little bit more

538
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 1: into a travel pattern because the topography changing crops possibly, um,

539
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 1: you know, you've got isolated food sources as opposed to

540
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: widespread food sources. If you can find those little honey hooles,

541
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,880
Speaker 1: if you will and really be super careful with the wind,

542
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 1: be being very disciplined about how you go in there

543
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,439
Speaker 1: and get out of them, and hunt them lightly, but

544
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: give yourself a chance on the periphery of that dear's

545
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 1: travel pattern to get a crack at him if he

546
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 1: makes a little bit of a slip up one afternoon

547
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 1: or one morning. But you know, day and day out,

548
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:17,439
Speaker 1: you're just going to have to be very disciplined and

549
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: how you approach it, because again it's it only takes

550
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 1: one slip up on our part and the buck is

551
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:29,159
Speaker 1: totally educated to at least that particular hunting set up. Now,

552
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,719
Speaker 1: he might continue to roam widely across the area and

553
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 1: get shot by somebody else, but but his knowledge of

554
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: that one particular ambush site that you've set up. We

555
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 1: want to minimize that. And we and you know, whether

556
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 1: it's you know, because we've hunted it sloppily. You know,

557
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,959
Speaker 1: we went in there wrong wind, or we threw trash

558
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 1: on the ground, or we didn't you know, we didn't

559
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 1: we went into bad conditions and we've basically left a

560
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: lot of of of tell tale knowledge for him to

561
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 1: pick up by our presence. Even if he didn't come

562
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 1: by the stand when we were in it, he still

563
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 1: knows we were there. And what we got to just

564
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 1: continue to go back to is minimizing the possibility of that.

565
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 1: But I do think that the guys that are most successful,

566
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 1: most often or really just crowding in as far as

567
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 1: they dare on the downwind side of a travel pattern

568
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 1: that they have reason to know is there either because

569
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 1: of sightings you know, sign or more often anymore, it's

570
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 1: just simply trail camera images that tell them that they're

571
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: on the right pattern. Just don't have to be careful

572
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 1: about how you hunt it. Yeah, And speaking of that

573
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 1: whole topic of you know, just being particularly careful about

574
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: everything related to hunting pressure, UM, you might remember I

575
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: actually wrote an article for North American Whitetail a few

576
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:49,959
Speaker 1: years ago about how I personally have decided to minimize

577
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 1: almost completely the number of mornings that I hunt during

578
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 1: early to mid October UM. And it's a long running

579
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 1: discussion that me and Dan here have with between ourselves

580
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: and other guests and stuff. Guess I'm just curious about

581
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 1: your take on that. What's your perspective on morning hunts

582
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 1: in early to mid October. Well, I have shot some

583
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 1: some books in the morning in let's say the third

584
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 1: week of October somewhere and there where, of course, but

585
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: later you get an October the generally speaking to better

586
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 1: things we're going to get. Um. I have had a

587
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 1: little bit of luck on some bucks, some early bucks,

588
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 1: starting to cruise small isolated food plots and sometimes even

589
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 1: coming into a to a buck decoy, and I've had

590
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: I've had pretty good luck doing that. I do feel

591
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 1: like that kind of minimizes my disturbance of any real

592
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 1: security cover because I'm out there on the edge of

593
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 1: an opening, and uh, I can hunt that way. And

594
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 1: if he if he comes out and he sees a

595
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 1: decoy and he's responsive to it, then he comes around,

596
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 1: gives me a shot, he's the right buck, then then

597
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 1: I'm golden. If it doesn't happen, I've not at least

598
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: not disturbed any significant security cover in the process. I

599
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 1: can back out, take my decoin, go home. So I

600
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: have seen. You know, sometimes you tend to think I've

601
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 1: got to be back in the deepest, darkest swamp to

602
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 1: kill one, you know, during this low period. Maybe not,

603
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 1: but you do need a little bit of weather or

604
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 1: something to get that buck a little bit more interested

605
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 1: in what's about to come in November. And if you

606
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 1: get that set of conditions, I do think that's a

607
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 1: great time to get to get a shot at. You know,

608
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: it's some relatively mature buck. Okay, Next, we're gonna get

609
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 1: a very different set of ideas from Dan in Falts.

610
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 1: You know him from The Hunting Beast, you know him

611
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: as an aggressive public land in d I, y bow hunter.

612
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 1: Here's some ideas from Dan. I want to take a

613
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: step back here real quick to get started because you

614
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 1: know this time frame, this middle portion of October. Lots

615
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: of people refer to that as the October lull. So

616
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: me and Dallas were just talking about this are different

617
00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 1: opinions on this, but I want to hear from you, Dan,

618
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 1: is the October law Is that fact or fiction? You know? Um?

619
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 1: I would say it's it's it's somewhat fact um somewhere

620
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 1: in the middle there. I mean, you do get less

621
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,959
Speaker 1: moving in daylight, um during this time frame. I think

622
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 1: it's starting to pick up now, but during that early

623
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: October frame, I think that you do get less movement,

624
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: but I don't see a law because I'm pushing those

625
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: dead and areas. I'm still getting them, you know, in

626
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 1: daylight seeing them, but I'm definitely seeing them closer to

627
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 1: the edge of darkness. And a lot of the bucks

628
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 1: I am seeing that are good bucks. Um, during that

629
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: time frame, only gettings from those beds. So I think

630
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 1: where most people are seeing a low as they're sitting

631
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: over food plots or food sources, you know, or acorn

632
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 1: patches or stuff like that, and they're seeing less moving

633
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: in daylight. Um, I'm still seeing the same amount of

634
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 1: moving at that time frame. I'm just seeing it later

635
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 1: in the day. Okay. And what do you think is

636
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: causing that decline and dear activity? Most people are saying

637
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 1: you said that these deer staying closer to the bedding

638
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 1: areas later. Um, I've got some different ideas, and there's

639
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 1: been a number of different hypotheses you know, thrown around

640
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: there about what caused that later movement or less um

641
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 1: decreased movement. But what do you think it's causing that day?

642
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 1: For me, it would have to be a guess. Um.

643
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: I think some of it has to do with the

644
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 1: heat and the fact that they're changing their coats to

645
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: winters winter coats, because it almost seems like when that

646
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 1: cold hits, you know, that that period of time and

647
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 1: that evening when it gets cold and so when they

648
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 1: get up and move. But that's pure speculation on my part, okay.

649
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 1: And maybe I imagine maybe some hunting pressure might cause

650
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 1: that too from a lot of people. Yeah, yeah, I

651
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 1: think so. But you know, I have on some spots

652
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: that don't get much pressure, and I still see it

653
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 1: places with pressure and I see it, so okay. Interesting.

654
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 1: So then that being the case, you know this time frame,

655
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: you said that you're still seeing that activity because you're

656
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: pushing it close to beds and close to bedding areas, um.

657
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 1: And I think you know that is I'm sure something

658
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 1: I want to talk about here. And are there any

659
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 1: other major tactics other than that the year employing this

660
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 1: time of year to get close to those dear or

661
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 1: does your entire strategy revolve around those betting areas at

662
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,800
Speaker 1: this time? I would never see my entire strategy revolves

663
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 1: around any one thing. Um. But there's one tip I'd

664
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 1: I'd love to give your listeners that they probably haven't

665
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 1: heard before. And this is gonna sound a little weird

666
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:30,320
Speaker 1: to you, but I guarantee it's true. Um, right around

667
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 1: the first week of October to the second week maple

668
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 1: leaves when they first started turning orange and dropping, when

669
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 1: they just first started dropping. They have a bigger draw

670
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 1: than acorns. Um. But you have to have isolated maple

671
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 1: leaves them things hit them like you wouldn't believe. I

672
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,359
Speaker 1: think they get a sweetness or something when they first die,

673
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 1: when they start dropping. Um, but they're a huge draw.

674
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 1: I first learned that from Andre Dia cuistal Um. He

675
00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 1: told me that when we were on a hunt one

676
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 1: time and I we paid attention after that and he

677
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:06,320
Speaker 1: was dead on. I observed it many times and moving

678
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 1: to these uh little maple patches. Wow, that's definitely something

679
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 1: I never thought about. Got a I got a maple

680
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 1: tree in my backyard, Maybe I should hunt in my backyard.

681
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 1: How close is the betting probably a couple of miles.

682
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 1: So so that said, then let's let's cycle back to

683
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: the betting area topic, because I think there's a whole

684
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 1: lot we could talk about in this and we talked

685
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: a little bit about it back in March or April

686
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 1: whenever we chatted with you the first time, dan Um.

687
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 1: But I guess let's start at the highest level and

688
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 1: then just keep on diving deeper. Can you give us

689
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 1: a high level overview of of what you're doing when

690
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 1: it comes to hunting these betting areas. When you're heading

691
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 1: in for a hunt, what are you thinking about, why

692
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 1: are you doing it, and how are you setting up? Well,

693
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 1: there's two different ways I go in on these betting areas,

694
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 1: and in the best way is if I prech scout

695
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 1: of it, and I've gone in and say January February

696
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 1: and really taking a good look at this betting area

697
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 1: and looked at how that's your stage, and look from

698
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 1: their perspective at how to set up. That's the best

699
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 1: scenario because then when I go back and I go

700
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 1: in for the first time in hunt, I've got a

701
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 1: really good shot to kill him. The second scenario is

702
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 1: I haven't hunted the area, and like this last book,

703
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 1: I'm going in and I'm guessing on the betting. I

704
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 1: think I do a little better than other people on

705
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 1: that aspect because I've been looking at these bets for

706
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 1: so many years that I have a good, good knack

707
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:33,840
Speaker 1: of reading them, if you know, if you know what

708
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 1: I mean, But those are like two mean scenarios. Is

709
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 1: guessing the betting or knowing it from previous scouting. Okay,

710
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 1: and so how about we go let's talk about that

711
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 1: first scenario, and then I really wanted to have in

712
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:51,839
Speaker 1: that second scenario too, because that might apply to people

713
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 1: at this point who who maybe are just trying to

714
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: figure this out as they go. But for someone who

715
00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 1: already has this betting area scouted out, let's say, like you,

716
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:01,879
Speaker 1: you're already have a whole lot of different betting areas

717
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 1: across numerous properties that you plan hunting. You know, how

718
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 1: do you have those prepared? Do you have stands hung up?

719
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,399
Speaker 1: Or I think from what I remember, lots of times

720
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 1: you're setting up on the on the go. But can

721
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 1: you talk to us about how you are choosing which

722
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,280
Speaker 1: ones you're gonna hunt on a given day and then

723
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 1: you know when you're heading in and what do those

724
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 1: setups look like? Okay, Well, you know some of the

725
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:25,840
Speaker 1: bet in areas are based on like acorns, you know,

726
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 1: or corn or or some food source. And if you

727
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:31,800
Speaker 1: know that food source and knowing that food source is available,

728
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 1: you know when the hunted. Um some you know, I

729
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: don't have any idea why they're betting there except for

730
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:40,919
Speaker 1: that it's a good bet in area, and I got

731
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:42,799
Speaker 1: to kind of, you know, go in and check it out.

732
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 1: Maybe you got a hunt in September, maybe a hunt

733
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: later in October, maybe a rut hunt, and try and

734
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,280
Speaker 1: figure out when they're there. Are you using wind direction

735
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:54,399
Speaker 1: at all to help make that decision? Is that from

736
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 1: absolutely um? But but there's there's one thing about wind,

737
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 1: is it's more important on the hill country directionalize then

738
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 1: it isn't swamps. A lot of times it swamps. They've

739
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 1: been on these points and and fingers and a little patches, um,

740
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 1: not based on the wind at all. So you can

741
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 1: have the wind in your face and and really do well.

742
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 1: But in like hill country, Um, they've been on that

743
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,919
Speaker 1: leeward side on the points and such. So you gotta

744
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 1: play that one a little bit. You gotta play it

745
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 1: off wind, um if you're gonna get him on the

746
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 1: hill side, which is a lot better than hunting downhill

747
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 1: because then you get the thermals busting you. So yeah,

748
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 1: when the wind plays a huge direction, I mean a

749
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 1: huge wind plays a huge factor in um, in choosing

750
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:44,800
Speaker 1: where you're gonna hunt and why, and more more so

751
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 1: than just keeping your wing from getting to the book.

752
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 1: In a lot of cases, they've been in a certain

753
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 1: position because of the wind. Can you tell us a

754
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 1: little more about that last part there? You know why

755
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 1: they've been in a certain area. Um. There's a lot

756
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 1: of different different opinions on this. You bucks wall enter

757
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 1: a bedding air with the wind in the face, or

758
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 1: the bed for the window over their backs, or they'll

759
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:07,719
Speaker 1: only leave with the wind in their face. You know what.

760
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 1: What's your take on that? On how deer use the

761
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 1: wind when choosing wear to bed and how to leave

762
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: their bed and approach the bed in the first place.

763
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: That's a good question, and whant to hear a lot

764
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 1: And as you can imagine, I've observed a lot of

765
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,400
Speaker 1: deer going in and out of beds, and the overall

766
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 1: majority of them come into a bed by circling around

767
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: and jay hooking and smelling from town wind. It just

768
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 1: don't feel comfortable going in there for some reason without

769
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 1: the wind interface. UM. So it makes it kind of

770
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 1: difficult to hunt those betting areas in the morning because

771
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 1: you kind of get the kind of come in from

772
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 1: a different direction each time. So the trails you see

773
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:46,800
Speaker 1: um at the bettering areas they used to dear leading

774
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 1: the beds, not going into them because they come in

775
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: it kind of weird. Um. But when they when they

776
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:56,360
Speaker 1: leave those beds, I don't see any relation to the

777
00:39:56,360 --> 00:40:00,839
Speaker 1: wind whatsoever. What I do see is if the wind

778
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 1: is not in their favors to their back, they come

779
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 1: out a little more cautiously, a little slower, but they

780
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: still go the direction they want to go. M So

781
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 1: then when you're choosing where to set up, you're not

782
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:16,719
Speaker 1: thinking about where will a buck want to go in

783
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 1: the evening. You know, you're hunting in the evening, so

784
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 1: you're not thinking about where is he gonna want to

785
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,280
Speaker 1: go based on the wind. You're just thinking about this morning,

786
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:24,919
Speaker 1: what was the wind direction that would cause him to

787
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 1: move into this betting or? Is that right? Uh? Yeah,

788
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 1: that's true to a degree. I mean, like I've said,

789
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 1: a lot of swamp that is regardless of the wind.

790
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 1: But if it is a wind specific bed, yeah, I'm

791
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 1: certainly thinking about, you know, if he's better there in

792
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 1: the morning. However, Um, I've seen bucks get up and

793
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:48,840
Speaker 1: move when the wind changes during the day, so that

794
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 1: can have a buring on it too, So you might

795
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:53,719
Speaker 1: want to be set up on where the wind is

796
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:58,320
Speaker 1: now or where it's going to be in the evening. Okay,

797
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 1: I gotta question for you. You mentioned earlier that you're

798
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 1: not hunting mornings this time of time of year. Can

799
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:08,919
Speaker 1: you can you elaborate on that a little bit while

800
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:13,760
Speaker 1: you're not spending time in the stand in the mornings? Well, Um,

801
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:15,719
Speaker 1: as you can imagine, I've been hunting these beds like

802
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 1: this for many, many, many years. Um. You know what

803
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 1: I've found is when I go into these bed in

804
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: areas in the morning, um, kicking the bucks out of

805
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 1: the bed in areas before daylight, they're already petted. Um.

806
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 1: What I see during daylight in the mornings at this

807
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,360
Speaker 1: time of the year, it's usually immature box or dollars.

808
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: The mature ones are alreadybetted. Okay, all right now? Is

809
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:44,240
Speaker 1: that the same for your marsh and your hill country? Oh? Yeah, yeah, okay.

810
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 1: See Now, me, on the other hand, I love hunting

811
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 1: mornings and um, but like unlike you, I'm not a

812
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:58,320
Speaker 1: I'm not a huge bed hunter, right. I like hunting

813
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:03,399
Speaker 1: transitions between food and bedding. In the mornings, and that's

814
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 1: where I that's where I had my success this this weekend. Anyway,

815
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 1: although I didn't kill, I still had an encounter with

816
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 1: a pretty good deer. And you know, we've talked about

817
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 1: this a lot, uh Dallas UM, and I think maybe

818
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 1: again I prior already mentioned us on previous episodes, but

819
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 1: I continue to wonder if this is again because of

820
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 1: the differences in pressure between you know, what Dan might

821
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:26,880
Speaker 1: be hunting and why I might be hunting in Michigan

822
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 1: or Wisconsin versus you know, the properties that you're there

823
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 1: on Iowa. UM, I don't know. I just I gotta

824
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 1: comment on this. Um. You know, a friend of mine

825
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 1: under the Crystal has shotten a lot of a lot

826
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 1: of big books. A matter of fact, he's if he

827
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 1: put him in the books, he has more blooming Crocketts

828
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 1: with the bow than anybody in the world. And I

829
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,720
Speaker 1: noticed that he's killing a lot of those big books. Um,

830
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 1: in the mornings, you love on the mornings. And I

831
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:58,760
Speaker 1: was interviewing him for something I was doing, and uh,

832
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 1: I said, you know, I gotta ask you, how do

833
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 1: you keep killing these books in the morning? And I

834
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 1: told them the problem I had that I'm kicking them

835
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 1: out of their beds and stuff. And he said to me,

836
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 1: he says, Dan, I got the same issue. But look

837
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:12,120
Speaker 1: at the dates when I killed those deer, he says.

838
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:14,840
Speaker 1: I'm waiting for the moon to be overhead before i

839
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 1: go in there, he says. And when I when I

840
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:20,839
Speaker 1: haven't moon overhead in the morning, uh, within the first

841
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 1: hour of daylight, he says, those books get back to

842
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 1: those beds of great light, and I'm able to shoot

843
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 1: him in daylight. I'm really glad you brought this up, Dan,

844
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:32,279
Speaker 1: So they're coming back to the beds later than they

845
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:37,840
Speaker 1: normally would with the moon overhead, yeah or underfoot? Okay,

846
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 1: So can you it seems to think that the overhead

847
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 1: moon has a little more influenced than the underfoot one. Um,

848
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 1: but I'm not so sure. Can you Can you go

849
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:49,879
Speaker 1: into this a little more for people that maybe might

850
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 1: not be as familiar with underfoot, overhead or all these

851
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 1: different moon um time frames. I know you you published

852
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 1: something on your website these moon dates that tend to

853
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:00,880
Speaker 1: lead to earlier movement in the thing or later movement

854
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,440
Speaker 1: movement in the morning. Um, could you just explain that

855
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 1: in detail for us, because The whole moon thing is

856
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:07,719
Speaker 1: something that so many people have questions about and so

857
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 1: many people don't really understand. So can you give us

858
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 1: your whole kind of one on one on that piece. Okay,

859
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 1: you know, I don't understand why they do it, but

860
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 1: I have seen plenty of evidence that I know that

861
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:21,919
Speaker 1: it goes on and there's more movement when the when

862
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 1: the moon is straight up or straight down, there's more

863
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 1: movement with buck movement. And when that happens UM in

864
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 1: the last couple hours of daylight or the first couple

865
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 1: of hours of daylight, you get more buck movement or

866
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 1: more dear movement. Overall, it's hard to notice UM on

867
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 1: the public lands and hunt but the few times I

868
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 1: was over by like Andre's hunting managed land, UM, you

869
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:48,920
Speaker 1: can set your watch to what time the food plots

870
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 1: would fill up based on the moon shart and it

871
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 1: was amazing, UH to just sit back and watch that.

872
00:44:56,200 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 1: UM the way where I got my information for Ms

873
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:03,319
Speaker 1: Jeff Murray UM. He passed away a few years ago,

874
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 1: but his his UH family still puts out a chart.

875
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 1: I think the charts like five or ten bucks. They

876
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 1: sew it on UM his website, which we just search

877
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 1: Jeff Murray moon guy, he'll find it. Um. I don't

878
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 1: believe all his principles about where to hunt and stuff

879
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 1: like that. Obviously I'm pushing dead in areas. And he's

880
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 1: talking about when daring food sources and stuff based on

881
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,759
Speaker 1: the moon. My thing is the movement based on the

882
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 1: moon overhead or underfoot. And so this chart, what is

883
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 1: this what is this chart showing? Is it showing you?

884
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 1: Is just telling you the time, the time frames that

885
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 1: the moon is overhead and underfoot, the dates and uh,

886
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 1: and it gives you he has like a hot thing

887
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 1: on her for time frame. But I think you can

888
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:52,840
Speaker 1: get that information free to you can just search it

889
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 1: online and and there's different charts different people have out there.

890
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:01,919
Speaker 1: But but some other people have different ideas on moon

891
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 1: charts and the moon position and stuff too. So you

892
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 1: can get kind of confused if you start searching it

893
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 1: um in other sources and you've you've put some of

894
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:14,720
Speaker 1: that on the Hunting Beasts, right if I if I

895
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:18,359
Speaker 1: found that because I link to that, Yeah, yeah, absolutely,

896
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:21,399
Speaker 1: it's it's stickied up on the top of the Deer

897
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 1: Hunting forum. UM. I put down the dates and times

898
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:31,240
Speaker 1: that I feel are the best for for daylight movement. Okay,

899
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:34,400
Speaker 1: I also put down based on the moon when the

900
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:39,240
Speaker 1: um what cruise time should be. Okay, interesting, and so

901
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:44,040
Speaker 1: again based on these charts and the rising and setting

902
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 1: of the moon. This is if you see one of

903
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 1: these charts or one of these time periods falling within

904
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 1: that same time period of first light or last light,

905
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 1: those are times when you might get that earlier or

906
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 1: later movement. And so that might be a time, even

907
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 1: in the middle of October to push into one of

908
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 1: these pushing closer to a betting area or one of

909
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 1: these hotter spots, because you might just get a couple

910
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 1: of extrements of movement, right correct, And and really, I

911
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 1: mean if you can get ten extra minutes of movement,

912
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:11,279
Speaker 1: they can get a long ways in ten minutes. Yeah,

913
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 1: for sure, definitely. So now how about our our second

914
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:18,440
Speaker 1: scenario that you mentioned a while back, Dan, which was

915
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 1: if you haven't pre scouted an area. Um, let's say

916
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 1: there's a guy listening to the show right now and

917
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 1: he's thinking to himself, Okay, I'm I'm having horrible success

918
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 1: right now. I've been hunting field edges and I'm not

919
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:30,359
Speaker 1: seeing any bucks. But I hear Dan is telling me

920
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 1: to try to push closer, closer some of these betting areas.

921
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:36,319
Speaker 1: For that guy that hasn't done the preseason scouting, all

922
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 1: he has is, you know what he knows about property

923
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:41,719
Speaker 1: and some maps? How can he go about finding these

924
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:44,359
Speaker 1: betting areas? And then you know, making those moves? How

925
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 1: are you doing that? And what should he know? This

926
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:50,760
Speaker 1: other guy? Okay, you know that's real rain specific, but um,

927
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 1: you see it's uh a marsh. You can't tell marsh.

928
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 1: That's to me, that's the easiest thing to read, um

929
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:59,400
Speaker 1: because you can see it visually, so easy. If you

930
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:01,359
Speaker 1: look at the can until marching and you look at

931
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:06,400
Speaker 1: the timber edge where it meets the cattails, you know

932
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 1: you've got the straight edge of trees meeting cant tails,

933
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: and somewhere along that line you're gonna see like a

934
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:14,440
Speaker 1: finger of trees go out or a point right at

935
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 1: that the point the tip of that finger. I guarantee

936
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 1: there's gonna be a good book that you see these

937
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 1: little islands, like a little brushy points that come off,

938
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:24,880
Speaker 1: and guarantee at the tip of that will be a

939
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 1: buck bit. And when you look at a swap and

940
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:31,839
Speaker 1: you start filling the whole thing with timber. You're gonna

941
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:35,799
Speaker 1: see the same stuff. It's just harder to visualize because

942
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 1: you can be able to see the different colors and

943
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 1: the different types of trees. The hard woods look different

944
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:43,320
Speaker 1: than the tamaracks in such right, and it's gonna be

945
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 1: the same thing. You're looking at those island tips, You're

946
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:48,280
Speaker 1: looking at those those changes in the contour that's straight

947
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:53,800
Speaker 1: line along hard transition of thick meats, you know, open.

948
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:56,040
Speaker 1: And when you start out in the public land, you've

949
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:59,400
Speaker 1: got to start looking for the remoter transitions, UM so

950
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:01,320
Speaker 1: that you're not and they're hunting where everybody else is

951
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 1: talking because people will follow those transitions to like a trail.

952
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 1: So you gotta try to find the remote ones that

953
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:09,359
Speaker 1: people don't go to. UM. Now, if you get into

954
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 1: hilling screen, then you're looking for points and fingers and

955
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:19,399
Speaker 1: stuff like that, and you're the top. So I've got

956
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 1: my TAPO and I've found a finger coming off a

957
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 1: ridge or maybe if I'm in the marshy area, i

958
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 1: found that finger of timber of high ground that pushes

959
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:30,239
Speaker 1: into the swamp. Um am, I just am, I just

960
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 1: gonna find that spot in the map decide. Okay, I

961
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:35,160
Speaker 1: know that there's a cot food source on the other

962
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:37,279
Speaker 1: side of this, so there's a decent chance he might

963
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:39,359
Speaker 1: be betting out in that finger. I'm going to try

964
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 1: to get as close as I can and set up

965
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 1: on any random day or maybe on one of those

966
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:45,480
Speaker 1: moon days. Or is there anything else that he needs

967
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:47,799
Speaker 1: to be thinking of about before moving in to try

968
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:50,880
Speaker 1: to hunt that bed he thinks is there. Well, what

969
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:52,759
Speaker 1: I do is if I'm pretty sure there's gonna be

970
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:54,239
Speaker 1: a bed there, or I think there's gonna be bed

971
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:56,919
Speaker 1: I just hunted. If I can get within a hundred yards,

972
00:49:56,920 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 1: I'm sure you can get a chance at that ball

973
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 1: in daylight. If there's a spot where I can't get

974
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:06,800
Speaker 1: that close to that buck, can't get close enough to

975
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:09,160
Speaker 1: that bed, I gotta hang back like two yards. So

976
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 1: that's the spot I saved for that moon day or

977
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 1: that cold front that comes in it gets to move

978
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:17,479
Speaker 1: a little earlier. Um, those are the days I saved

979
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 1: for that. Otherwise, UM, I'm hunting those spots one after another,

980
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:23,680
Speaker 1: pushing as close as I can. Because you're you don't

981
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 1: hunting this way, You're not gonna see bucks every time.

982
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 1: They've got different bet Nerrens are all over the place,

983
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:29,799
Speaker 1: And what I'm doing is I'm trying each bed nery

984
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 1: and once you're sent in the y're just stay out

985
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:33,279
Speaker 1: of there for a while. So it makes the other

986
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 1: Betton area is better. So you just keep, you know,

987
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:38,400
Speaker 1: hopping around and hitting these things, and you're gonna have

988
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:41,799
Speaker 1: a few that don't pay off. And in the more

989
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 1: of an amateur yard at it, the more you're gonna

990
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 1: have something that don't pay off, and you know, and

991
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 1: you just gotta keep hitting it until it works. And

992
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:51,319
Speaker 1: the hardest part for a guy who doesn't hunt like

993
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:55,319
Speaker 1: this is keeping up this confidence level because, like I said,

994
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 1: even I, you know, I'll go five six months without

995
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 1: seeing a deer, you know, but I guarantee in the

996
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 1: long run, I'm seeing more big books than most guys.

997
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 1: All right now, we're gonna bounce over to Bernie Barringer.

998
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:10,879
Speaker 1: He's the author of The Freelance bow Hunter, written from

999
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:14,840
Speaker 1: many different magazines, and he's got some different ideas on October.

1000
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:18,280
Speaker 1: Can you share this what your progression looks like throughout

1001
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 1: the month of October, um, and how you're hunting strategy

1002
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:29,080
Speaker 1: is typically changing as we progress. Yeah, Um, it's It's

1003
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:34,239
Speaker 1: interesting how so many people really think the the month

1004
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 1: of October is just a time to just wait, you know,

1005
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 1: forget it, let's just wait for November. And um, you know,

1006
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:46,720
Speaker 1: the first week in October can be a really tough

1007
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:51,759
Speaker 1: time because the um, the bachelor groups are broken up,

1008
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 1: and um, you know, the patterns. We're having a hard

1009
00:51:56,160 --> 00:52:01,840
Speaker 1: time figuring out where the deer are because, uh, you know,

1010
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 1: throughout the month of September, these deer a sort of

1011
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 1: just changing in their food sources and their patterns, and um,

1012
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:13,920
Speaker 1: you know, you'll be watching on your cameras and you'll

1013
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:15,759
Speaker 1: see these deer in the fields and the evenings and

1014
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 1: stuff like that starting late August and right through the

1015
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 1: middle of September, and all of a sudden they're gone,

1016
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:23,480
Speaker 1: you know. And then you know, the end of September,

1017
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:25,239
Speaker 1: first of October, and all of a sudden, you've got

1018
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:27,200
Speaker 1: a buck on your camera and you go, I haven't

1019
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 1: seen where did this come from? Well, he came from

1020
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:32,399
Speaker 1: somebody else. You know, they're wonder where he is. And

1021
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 1: uh so the first week in October, it's pretty much

1022
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 1: all about the food. M If you can find um, acorns, hazelnuts,

1023
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:44,640
Speaker 1: stuff like that, in my area. That's kind of what

1024
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:47,239
Speaker 1: they're eating on. If there's still some dry some corn

1025
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:50,360
Speaker 1: in the field, um, you know they're they're still in

1026
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:52,360
Speaker 1: somewhat of a pattern. It's just that you'll have to

1027
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:55,760
Speaker 1: find these deer again and you have to move quickly

1028
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:59,320
Speaker 1: because the patterns are changing. UM. I like hunting October

1029
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 1: because the first week in October, especially, the weather is

1030
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 1: nice and usually here we've had a frost, so we

1031
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 1: don't have much about mosquitoes and stuff like that. But then, um,

1032
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 1: as the second week of October wears on, then the

1033
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:17,640
Speaker 1: it's getting colder, so the deer seeking out the high

1034
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:19,800
Speaker 1: card foods like corn and stuff like that. When the

1035
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:22,920
Speaker 1: if they're standing corns left that there, that's a real

1036
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:26,759
Speaker 1: magnet for them. Um. Sometimes they're picking up corn that's

1037
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:30,440
Speaker 1: been harvested and so forth, and um. So that you know,

1038
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 1: second week is not a bad time to hunt either.

1039
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 1: And by the third week in October, now you're starting

1040
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:39,200
Speaker 1: to see a lot of scrapes and rubs. They are

1041
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:42,799
Speaker 1: pretty active rather than you know, there's there's you start

1042
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:44,800
Speaker 1: seeing scrapes and rubs. You know, at the end of

1043
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:48,200
Speaker 1: August and even as the velvet comes off, but by

1044
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:50,320
Speaker 1: the third week in October, the bucks are really paying

1045
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:54,319
Speaker 1: attention to them, and so that's when I start paying

1046
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:58,320
Speaker 1: attention to them too. And also that's when the effectiveness

1047
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:02,359
Speaker 1: of calling and rattling is starting to work. UM. And

1048
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 1: then by the fourth week in October, then you know,

1049
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:08,480
Speaker 1: calling and rattling is at its peak. That's it's it's

1050
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 1: the best last week in October, first week in November.

1051
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:13,879
Speaker 1: I would even give the edge to the last week

1052
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:17,960
Speaker 1: in October for for calling and rattling. Um. You know,

1053
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:19,959
Speaker 1: that's the best time of the year. Also to haunt

1054
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:23,320
Speaker 1: scrapes and rubs because the bucks are visiting them consistently.

1055
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:28,480
Speaker 1: And UM. You know something another issue with um with

1056
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 1: scrapes that a lot of people don't think about and um,

1057
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:36,200
Speaker 1: the you know, it's kind of complicated, but you know,

1058
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:41,879
Speaker 1: there's been several studies done that bucks, um don't visit

1059
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:45,000
Speaker 1: scrapes in the daylight. You've probably read the signists. What

1060
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:46,960
Speaker 1: they do is they put camera at the scrape and

1061
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 1: they and then they say, well, we got eighty percent

1062
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:51,879
Speaker 1: of the pictures of mature bucks that we got were

1063
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:58,239
Speaker 1: at night. And well, one thing that they that they're

1064
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:01,439
Speaker 1: not noticing about this is the fact that they're only

1065
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 1: putting a camera right at the scrape. And so bucks

1066
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 1: are checking scrapes during the day at this time, but

1067
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:11,239
Speaker 1: they're just not walking right into them because most of

1068
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 1: your scrapes, if you think about it, they're on a

1069
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:15,759
Speaker 1: power line cut or a road to track on the

1070
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:17,320
Speaker 1: edge of the field or something like that. Needs but

1071
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 1: your bucks don't like to expose themselves to open areas

1072
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:23,439
Speaker 1: during the daylight. So they'll whenever can they can, they'll

1073
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 1: stay thirty or forty yards down the wind of the

1074
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:29,080
Speaker 1: scrape in cover, and they'll just check the scrape without

1075
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:30,960
Speaker 1: walking right up to it. Now, if there's something good

1076
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:33,960
Speaker 1: in the scrape, if there's fresh dope, or if you

1077
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:37,319
Speaker 1: use a good lure or something like that, um you can,

1078
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:39,960
Speaker 1: you know, you can hunt right over these scrapes and

1079
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:43,480
Speaker 1: bring these bucks right in. But um so, don't completely

1080
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 1: discount hunting scrapes during the daylight because there's that last

1081
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:51,000
Speaker 1: week in October. Fact, Halloween is kind of famous for,

1082
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:55,680
Speaker 1: you know, for killing bucks over signed. So so at

1083
00:55:55,719 --> 00:55:59,319
Speaker 1: that time period is do you prioritize scrapes so much

1084
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:01,880
Speaker 1: that during that as we get October. That's that's one

1085
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 1: of the main areas that you're actually hunting over is

1086
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:08,480
Speaker 1: specifically in the spot because of a scrape. Yeah, I'm

1087
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:11,040
Speaker 1: looking for areas that are all torn up and uh

1088
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:13,839
Speaker 1: I'm you know, by the last week in October. I'm

1089
00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:16,160
Speaker 1: not spending a lot of time worrying about beds and

1090
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:19,440
Speaker 1: food and stuff like that. You know, I'm looking for

1091
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:23,760
Speaker 1: a sign that that those bucks, you know, the testosterones rising,

1092
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:27,680
Speaker 1: they're gonna be checking those scrapes and and uh, Terry,

1093
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:30,080
Speaker 1: if you find an area that's got six or eight

1094
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:32,359
Speaker 1: scrapes and a bunch of rubs and stuff like that,

1095
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:36,080
Speaker 1: it's it's definitely worth spending the afternoon there during that

1096
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:39,920
Speaker 1: last week in October. So one of the things that

1097
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:41,439
Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of people do talk about

1098
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 1: when when we're on this topic of scrapes is that

1099
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 1: the places that you will see that daytime activity are

1100
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 1: usually going to be the scrapes some people refer to

1101
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:53,480
Speaker 1: like primary scrape ariers or something like that, being these

1102
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:55,400
Speaker 1: places back in the cover. So the scrapes are on

1103
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:58,520
Speaker 1: the field edge, don't focus on those, try to find

1104
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:01,040
Speaker 1: these areas of that are all for but the ones

1105
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:03,359
Speaker 1: that are back secluded somewhat. Is that the way you're

1106
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 1: looking at things too, or are you even taking advantage

1107
00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:08,719
Speaker 1: of field that scrapes because you still think that they're

1108
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:11,320
Speaker 1: they're coming down wind of at thirty or forty yards

1109
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:15,879
Speaker 1: into the cover checking on those field that scrape somewhere. Yeah,

1110
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:19,080
Speaker 1: if the wind is right that you can get down

1111
00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:22,400
Speaker 1: wind of one of those scrapes that's on a field edge. Um,

1112
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:24,880
Speaker 1: they're good places hunt, you know, if you can have

1113
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:27,440
Speaker 1: the wind blowing from you or from the scrape to

1114
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:31,200
Speaker 1: you and getting a tree up there. The bucks will

1115
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 1: they'll check them and then they'll make a hook. They'll

1116
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 1: kind of circle around in a half circle. If if

1117
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 1: they smell something they like, then they'll kind of circle

1118
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:42,280
Speaker 1: around and try to quarter into the wind with the

1119
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:43,960
Speaker 1: you know, kind of the wind on the flat of

1120
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:46,479
Speaker 1: their face so it's in one nostril basically, and they'll

1121
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 1: approach the scrapes that way. So to keep that in mind.

1122
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:53,040
Speaker 1: But I would say if I had to choose between

1123
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:55,800
Speaker 1: the two, I'd take an area back in the cover

1124
00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:58,400
Speaker 1: more that's closer to the betting area that's all torn up,

1125
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 1: because you're more likely to encounter them in the daylight.

1126
00:58:02,040 --> 00:58:04,919
Speaker 1: If you're closer to the bedding area. But these these

1127
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 1: areas where they're all tore up on the edge of

1128
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:10,120
Speaker 1: the fields, they shouldn't be completely overlooked. Fair enough, have

1129
00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:13,840
Speaker 1: you seen have you seen, you know, for from all

1130
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:16,960
Speaker 1: your years of being in a tree stand and and

1131
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:22,360
Speaker 1: just watching deer movement in general, is there a time where,

1132
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 1: you know, we're talking about hunting scrapes right now, where

1133
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:30,920
Speaker 1: these dear really start to get up on their feet

1134
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:35,800
Speaker 1: in daylight, whether that's getting up early or coming to

1135
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:39,320
Speaker 1: back to bed late. Um, yeah, I would say the

1136
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:43,800
Speaker 1: last week in October here in the Upper Midwest is

1137
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:46,920
Speaker 1: when you start seeing that. And then by you know,

1138
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:49,480
Speaker 1: the first week in November, and then you start seeing

1139
00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:54,400
Speaker 1: more of the chasing more so, you know, and so

1140
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:58,880
Speaker 1: then the scrapes will work. But there, you know, you

1141
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:01,520
Speaker 1: can concentrate more on the dough betting areas and where

1142
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:03,640
Speaker 1: the doughs are feeding in the evening, because the bucks

1143
00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:06,160
Speaker 1: are going to be they're starting dose, are starting to

1144
00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:08,240
Speaker 1: smell pretty good, you know, around the first of November,

1145
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:10,600
Speaker 1: so those bucks are going to be sniffing them out.

1146
00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:13,960
Speaker 1: Because yeah, if you can answer your question, then last

1147
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:18,800
Speaker 1: week in October absolutely, Dan where you were you asking about,

1148
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 1: like time of year or where you were asking where

1149
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:25,960
Speaker 1: the factors that change it, well, not necessarily factors, I

1150
00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:30,439
Speaker 1: mean in regards to hunting the actual scrapes, right, that's

1151
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:33,960
Speaker 1: something that I don't do a lot of. So just

1152
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:38,440
Speaker 1: because I don't for me, I'm not seeing a lot

1153
00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:42,320
Speaker 1: of enough movement during the daylight, you know, I'm not

1154
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 1: necessarily going right into the bedroom in late October. Maybe

1155
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:49,840
Speaker 1: if there is a um, maybe if there is a

1156
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:53,919
Speaker 1: I guess a cold front coming for for an evening hunt,

1157
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:57,840
Speaker 1: I guess, But I do like hunting u late October,

1158
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:02,360
Speaker 1: the morning hunt back in the bedroom where the deer

1159
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:05,440
Speaker 1: might be coming later back to that bedroom or maybe

1160
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:10,120
Speaker 1: scent checking. So I guess my question was, um, there

1161
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:16,240
Speaker 1: you know what time of year, whether it's like twenty nine,

1162
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:21,400
Speaker 1: are are used typically seeing these deer not chasing yet,

1163
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:24,160
Speaker 1: but getting up on their feet a little earlier, because

1164
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:26,400
Speaker 1: you know, there's that smell and that there's that smell

1165
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:28,120
Speaker 1: in the air, like hey, we gotta we gotta start

1166
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:31,760
Speaker 1: getting ready. And I think, and I think, Bernie, you

1167
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:33,920
Speaker 1: you would go ahead and sorry, I was gonna say,

1168
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:36,720
Speaker 1: I think your previous answer then answers that right that

1169
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:39,720
Speaker 1: last week in October. Yeah, yeah, And I would like

1170
01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:43,200
Speaker 1: to mention the mornings too though that's a UM. I

1171
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:45,640
Speaker 1: would say the closer you get to November, the better

1172
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:48,440
Speaker 1: it gets. But as far as the morning goes, when

1173
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:52,000
Speaker 1: they're primarily on a feeding t betting pattern, then they'll

1174
01:00:52,040 --> 01:00:55,720
Speaker 1: trickle back in UM and it's hard to it's hard

1175
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:59,240
Speaker 1: to hunt mornings on feeding to betting patterns without bumping deer.

1176
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:02,840
Speaker 1: For particular, if they're hunting in open fields and you know,

1177
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:06,760
Speaker 1: they'll start trickling back in well before daylight sometimes and

1178
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:09,600
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, you might not encounter the deer

1179
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:13,160
Speaker 1: and you can it's it's hard not to uh spook

1180
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:18,000
Speaker 1: him or you know, intrude. But the closer you get

1181
01:01:18,040 --> 01:01:21,440
Speaker 1: to November one, the more the bucks stay out a

1182
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:23,600
Speaker 1: little later. So that's kind of an answer to your

1183
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:28,560
Speaker 1: question that the effective us of morning hunting UM gets

1184
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:34,680
Speaker 1: better as you approach the first November. All right, moving on,

1185
01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:39,120
Speaker 1: here is a few bits from Jeff Sturgis. He's the

1186
01:01:39,160 --> 01:01:42,919
Speaker 1: founder of Whitetail Habitat Solutions, the author of a number

1187
01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:45,960
Speaker 1: of great books. He's got the White Tail Habitat Solutions

1188
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:49,160
Speaker 1: YouTube channel and a lot of interesting ideas, in particular

1189
01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:53,400
Speaker 1: about how he looks at weather during the month of October.

1190
01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:56,560
Speaker 1: And we're gonna drop into a section here where Jeff

1191
01:01:56,560 --> 01:02:00,240
Speaker 1: and I were talking. It was right around October first,

1192
01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:02,360
Speaker 1: somewhere in that ballpark, and I asked him to walk

1193
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:05,760
Speaker 1: through the upcoming forecast. This is back into some fifteen

1194
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:07,800
Speaker 1: I think I want him to walk through the upcoming

1195
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:10,840
Speaker 1: forecast and how that would impact how he hunts. So

1196
01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:14,400
Speaker 1: keep this in mind. He's talking through a hypothetical set

1197
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:16,960
Speaker 1: of weather factors for the last ten days or so

1198
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:19,720
Speaker 1: of October and how that would influence the strategy. So

1199
01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:23,720
Speaker 1: here we go, so definitely. So so then here's the

1200
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:26,680
Speaker 1: next thing I'm curious about, because right I think we

1201
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:29,200
Speaker 1: hear about this type of thing, pay attention to cold fronts,

1202
01:02:29,240 --> 01:02:31,120
Speaker 1: looking for those changes in wind speed like you, So

1203
01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:32,640
Speaker 1: it seems like you like when it calms down a

1204
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:35,520
Speaker 1: little bit and the high pressure days. We hear about

1205
01:02:35,520 --> 01:02:37,080
Speaker 1: a lot of these things, but sometimes it's hard to

1206
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:40,800
Speaker 1: understand how to actually take that and put it into play.

1207
01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:43,200
Speaker 1: So something I've seen you do the last couple of

1208
01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:46,040
Speaker 1: weeks is you're putting out this weekly forecast where you

1209
01:02:46,080 --> 01:02:48,200
Speaker 1: talk about what the weather is going to look like

1210
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:51,400
Speaker 1: in the coming week or two weeks, and then which

1211
01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:53,400
Speaker 1: of those days coming up are high value sits and

1212
01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:56,000
Speaker 1: what that means for you as a hunter. Could you

1213
01:02:56,080 --> 01:02:59,560
Speaker 1: possibly walk us through, as best as you can remember

1214
01:02:59,640 --> 01:03:02,840
Speaker 1: right now, what that looks like for the coming days

1215
01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:05,960
Speaker 1: here UM is kind of an example, UM, and this

1216
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:10,160
Speaker 1: and for for context, this podcast will be going live

1217
01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:13,840
Speaker 1: on this Thursday. So maybe if you, if you remember

1218
01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:15,560
Speaker 1: what the forecast looks, can you talk to us about

1219
01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:18,600
Speaker 1: what you're looking at this upcoming weather and how you

1220
01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:22,400
Speaker 1: implement some of the things that we've just talked about. Yes, yeah,

1221
01:03:22,520 --> 01:03:25,640
Speaker 1: and I have that that weather forecast burned in my

1222
01:03:25,640 --> 01:03:28,120
Speaker 1: head pretty well. But and I this time when I

1223
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:30,760
Speaker 1: pulled up for Lacrosse, Wisconsin, last time I pulled up Chicago,

1224
01:03:31,040 --> 01:03:33,240
Speaker 1: I was actually thinking about flipping over to the Detroit

1225
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:39,160
Speaker 1: area lands and Grant Arbor next week regardless. So it'll

1226
01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:43,600
Speaker 1: be coming your way anyway. But the big thing with

1227
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:47,920
Speaker 1: UM this week is Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. We had three

1228
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:50,320
Speaker 1: days in the low seventies to mid seventies at least

1229
01:03:50,320 --> 01:03:53,520
Speaker 1: around here in this area. It really across the same

1230
01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:57,120
Speaker 1: general line moving east and last, there's not that much difference.

1231
01:03:57,160 --> 01:03:58,760
Speaker 1: It's gonna be a lag time a lot of day,

1232
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:01,280
Speaker 1: I would say, from here in lower Michigan and then

1233
01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:05,320
Speaker 1: another day over to northern Pennsylvania neal orkum. But really,

1234
01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:07,360
Speaker 1: you know, things happening for the most part, the weathers

1235
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:10,880
Speaker 1: moving west east or west northeast. So that being said,

1236
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:14,120
Speaker 1: this week we had those three warmer days and then

1237
01:04:14,320 --> 01:04:17,440
Speaker 1: here we have about a ten degree drop on Thursday.

1238
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:21,040
Speaker 1: And so those three warm days to me, really helped

1239
01:04:21,160 --> 01:04:24,640
Speaker 1: set up on that Thursday drop. And you could say,

1240
01:04:25,080 --> 01:04:27,040
Speaker 1: now if it was four or five days of poor

1241
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:30,920
Speaker 1: weather or warm weather, Um, if it was a you know,

1242
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:33,400
Speaker 1: if you had a monster storm moving through on Wednesday,

1243
01:04:33,880 --> 01:04:36,400
Speaker 1: that might make a really big difference. But it's still

1244
01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:39,160
Speaker 1: a pretty quality a high quality day. And especially that's

1245
01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:43,480
Speaker 1: gonna be uh the of October, and that happens to

1246
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:45,680
Speaker 1: be the days that have shot a couple of really

1247
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:47,480
Speaker 1: nice box five in secure old box, had a really

1248
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:53,320
Speaker 1: nice opportunity on another, a nice book, another five fix

1249
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:55,160
Speaker 1: year old. So we're starting to get into that time

1250
01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:57,040
Speaker 1: where I'm really getting pumped. And I talked to you

1251
01:04:57,040 --> 01:04:59,520
Speaker 1: about that this week to market. You had the box

1252
01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:02,480
Speaker 1: on camp and uh on the cameras and it's it's

1253
01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:07,320
Speaker 1: getting exciting. Um. Then on Friday, what's really cool is UM,

1254
01:05:07,400 --> 01:05:10,360
Speaker 1: so Thursday showing a let's say a low of thirty

1255
01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:13,320
Speaker 1: nine and a high of sixty. Let's say on Wednesday

1256
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:15,080
Speaker 1: it was the highest seventy one. So there's a leven

1257
01:05:15,080 --> 01:05:20,000
Speaker 1: degree temperature drop. UM. I believe the morning temperature. Now

1258
01:05:20,360 --> 01:05:23,120
Speaker 1: when you look at the weather forecast, and you know,

1259
01:05:23,160 --> 01:05:25,120
Speaker 1: maybe some of the listeners don't realize this, but when

1260
01:05:25,120 --> 01:05:29,040
Speaker 1: you see the low for Thursday, that's actually Friday mornings temperature.

1261
01:05:29,480 --> 01:05:32,040
Speaker 1: And so it's a little deceiving because if you look

1262
01:05:32,080 --> 01:05:35,080
Speaker 1: at Wednesday the low is forty nine, that's actually Thursday morning.

1263
01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:38,280
Speaker 1: So Friday morning has a forecast at low of actually

1264
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:41,560
Speaker 1: thirty nine, and so tend to gree temperature drop from

1265
01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:44,200
Speaker 1: morning to morning. I'm looking for that from the evening

1266
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:48,280
Speaker 1: daytime highs to daytime high and in some areas they're

1267
01:05:48,280 --> 01:05:52,640
Speaker 1: actually calling for a little bit of rain or precipitation,

1268
01:05:52,680 --> 01:05:56,800
Speaker 1: maybe some higher winds on wednesdy day to Thursday. UM.

1269
01:05:56,880 --> 01:05:58,840
Speaker 1: Even looking at the Chicago I think that the high

1270
01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:01,640
Speaker 1: quality days of Friday or whether that will help to

1271
01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:05,520
Speaker 1: actually enhance the value that day and going forward, I

1272
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:08,120
Speaker 1: think the there's a little bit of moisture on that

1273
01:06:08,280 --> 01:06:12,720
Speaker 1: Friday Saturday time, and another little bit of drop on

1274
01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:16,000
Speaker 1: on Sunday. And so I'm looking at like, if I

1275
01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:18,640
Speaker 1: was planning out this week, you know, I really want

1276
01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:21,880
Speaker 1: to make a priority of hunting this Thursday Friday because

1277
01:06:21,920 --> 01:06:24,120
Speaker 1: of the first couple of days after the front, there's

1278
01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:27,600
Speaker 1: good quality temperature, draw a little bit of weather to

1279
01:06:27,640 --> 01:06:29,800
Speaker 1: serve to set that up, and then there's a little

1280
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:31,680
Speaker 1: bit of a bump where you have some a little

1281
01:06:31,680 --> 01:06:35,360
Speaker 1: bit of a warmer day, um, some inclement weather, rain,

1282
01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:39,600
Speaker 1: and then clearing and high pressure on Sunday. So if

1283
01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:43,880
Speaker 1: I'm planning my sets, I might spend Saturday with family. Um,

1284
01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:46,400
Speaker 1: it looks like Friday night is going to be pretty wet.

1285
01:06:46,480 --> 01:06:48,720
Speaker 1: Not to say that you couldn't shoot a mature buck

1286
01:06:48,760 --> 01:06:51,440
Speaker 1: in the rain, certainly, But if I'm planning my sets

1287
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:53,000
Speaker 1: and I have four or five, then I really want

1288
01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:56,440
Speaker 1: to get out. I'm gonna I'm actually planning Friday or

1289
01:06:56,560 --> 01:07:00,320
Speaker 1: Thursday morning, Thursday night, Friday morning, and I'll sit on

1290
01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:03,800
Speaker 1: Sunday as well. So and then looking ahead, and this

1291
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:07,200
Speaker 1: is you know, looking at a week and a half. Um,

1292
01:07:07,360 --> 01:07:09,840
Speaker 1: the there's a really nice drop, and I think it's

1293
01:07:09,880 --> 01:07:13,560
Speaker 1: next Saturday or Sunday where you have pretty steady weather.

1294
01:07:13,600 --> 01:07:16,080
Speaker 1: It looks like next week, and then a major dropper

1295
01:07:16,080 --> 01:07:19,000
Speaker 1: around Halloween. So it's still a little ways out the

1296
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:23,200
Speaker 1: window of there, probably you know, really high probably uh

1297
01:07:23,240 --> 01:07:27,880
Speaker 1: you know, accuracy rating. But at the same time, I'm

1298
01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:30,560
Speaker 1: really looking forward to that next drop right around Halloween,

1299
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:35,600
Speaker 1: which is prime time in the northern part of the Midwest. Absolutely,

1300
01:07:35,640 --> 01:07:38,240
Speaker 1: that's going to be a great time to be in

1301
01:07:38,240 --> 01:07:42,280
Speaker 1: the tree now looking though at this most for this

1302
01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:45,440
Speaker 1: most kind of upcoming weekend. So you talked about that

1303
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:47,760
Speaker 1: cold front hitting today that the air the day that

1304
01:07:47,800 --> 01:07:50,560
Speaker 1: this podcast is going live is Thursday, so that cold

1305
01:07:50,600 --> 01:07:52,959
Speaker 1: fronts hitting Thursday, said, Thursday Friday could be good sits

1306
01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:56,680
Speaker 1: and then maybe against Sunday. Um, this time of year,

1307
01:07:56,840 --> 01:08:01,440
Speaker 1: the twenty six give or take, around this part of

1308
01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:04,640
Speaker 1: the year in October, how are you approaching those hunts

1309
01:08:04,680 --> 01:08:06,800
Speaker 1: at this time to take advantage of this good condition

1310
01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:09,680
Speaker 1: that's good conditions. Where are you hunting? What are you

1311
01:08:09,720 --> 01:08:13,120
Speaker 1: thinking about when choosing those stand sites? Yeah, that's a

1312
01:08:13,200 --> 01:08:16,679
Speaker 1: great question. Um, I'm looking at total pre rout hunting.

1313
01:08:16,720 --> 01:08:19,880
Speaker 1: And what I mean by that is really the box

1314
01:08:19,960 --> 01:08:22,920
Speaker 1: to me, are not moved in that far. And I

1315
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:25,120
Speaker 1: have to excuse me if this is a poor example

1316
01:08:25,280 --> 01:08:28,720
Speaker 1: or a crash example. But um, you know, bi guy,

1317
01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:32,200
Speaker 1: there's thirty girls in a nightclub, bar or whatever, and

1318
01:08:32,200 --> 01:08:35,400
Speaker 1: there's ten guys going in and and that's the time

1319
01:08:35,439 --> 01:08:39,960
Speaker 1: where it's uh, you know, pretty easy to meet a girl. Um.

1320
01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:45,080
Speaker 1: And that's to me unless you're unless you're danaus the

1321
01:08:45,120 --> 01:08:49,519
Speaker 1: same analogy a while ago. That's funny. Yeah, I use

1322
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:51,240
Speaker 1: that with a client. He said, I don't see anything

1323
01:08:51,240 --> 01:08:54,439
Speaker 1: wrong with that example. But any anyways, Um that uh,

1324
01:08:54,760 --> 01:08:56,639
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of like that for the pre rot.

1325
01:08:57,000 --> 01:08:59,120
Speaker 1: You know, these big boys already have the fall ring

1326
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:01,439
Speaker 1: ranges to published. They have where they want to eat,

1327
01:09:01,479 --> 01:09:03,120
Speaker 1: where they want to stay there in the day, their

1328
01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:05,680
Speaker 1: betting areas, and they have some doughs nearby. And it's

1329
01:09:05,680 --> 01:09:07,200
Speaker 1: not that they have to have those doughs, just the

1330
01:09:07,200 --> 01:09:09,120
Speaker 1: way it works. They the doughs are right next to

1331
01:09:09,160 --> 01:09:12,479
Speaker 1: the high quality food, good covering. Then those bucks are

1332
01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:16,200
Speaker 1: aren't far behind them, and so they're already established. And

1333
01:09:16,360 --> 01:09:18,639
Speaker 1: when one of those dose starts to get a little

1334
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:24,600
Speaker 1: a little ruddy. Then uh, it's those bucks they you know,

1335
01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:26,120
Speaker 1: you can pick up on that. There's a lot of

1336
01:09:26,120 --> 01:09:28,519
Speaker 1: dolls will start coming in the heat, and those first

1337
01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:30,600
Speaker 1: few doughs are pretty easy for them to find and

1338
01:09:30,640 --> 01:09:32,479
Speaker 1: they don't really need to move around too much. And

1339
01:09:32,520 --> 01:09:35,799
Speaker 1: so um, at the same time, right before that happens,

1340
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:37,840
Speaker 1: they're going to become more active. And I know, just

1341
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:40,120
Speaker 1: in the last three days, I've had a lot of

1342
01:09:40,160 --> 01:09:42,639
Speaker 1: scrapes pop up and then around the properties right hunt

1343
01:09:42,640 --> 01:09:44,320
Speaker 1: and that's not even going in the woods much. That's

1344
01:09:44,360 --> 01:09:47,400
Speaker 1: just just on the exterior edges. So what I'm looking

1345
01:09:47,439 --> 01:09:48,960
Speaker 1: at is for one of those bucks are going to

1346
01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:51,040
Speaker 1: move along ways. So I'm not really I'm not going

1347
01:09:51,080 --> 01:09:53,760
Speaker 1: to sit all day. Um. I just don't think there's

1348
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:55,280
Speaker 1: a lot of value and sitting there in the middle

1349
01:09:55,280 --> 01:09:57,000
Speaker 1: of the day unless you have to get into an

1350
01:09:57,040 --> 01:10:00,120
Speaker 1: area that you can't get out until after dark. Um.

1351
01:10:00,280 --> 01:10:03,360
Speaker 1: So I'm placing a high priority in the morning near

1352
01:10:03,360 --> 01:10:05,880
Speaker 1: bedding areas. So I'm trying to get within a hundred

1353
01:10:05,920 --> 01:10:09,040
Speaker 1: fifty yards of them sure box betting area, knowing that

1354
01:10:09,200 --> 01:10:11,400
Speaker 1: his range might expand from an acre to ten to

1355
01:10:11,479 --> 01:10:14,600
Speaker 1: fifteen acres during the morning, especially when there's cooler temperatures

1356
01:10:15,200 --> 01:10:17,479
Speaker 1: at the same time in the evening, if I sit

1357
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:19,360
Speaker 1: in that bedding area, then it's going to be a

1358
01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:22,360
Speaker 1: pretty poor hunt. The closer it gets too dark, because

1359
01:10:22,400 --> 01:10:25,599
Speaker 1: that box is then turning his attention towards the evening

1360
01:10:25,720 --> 01:10:28,000
Speaker 1: food sources of social areas where all the dos and

1361
01:10:28,040 --> 01:10:30,080
Speaker 1: the dope fani the groups are moving in the other box,

1362
01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:32,720
Speaker 1: and he wants to leave that bedding area and go

1363
01:10:32,800 --> 01:10:35,000
Speaker 1: to that food source. So if I'm still in that

1364
01:10:35,040 --> 01:10:38,479
Speaker 1: betting area, then the closer it gets start to last dance.

1365
01:10:38,920 --> 01:10:41,320
Speaker 1: I haven't seen a box. So I find the best

1366
01:10:41,360 --> 01:10:45,160
Speaker 1: to prioritize my sits and increase that value by sitting

1367
01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:47,840
Speaker 1: in a morning area that relates to a betting area

1368
01:10:48,280 --> 01:10:50,400
Speaker 1: and then an evening area that relates to a food source.

1369
01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:53,120
Speaker 1: Doesn't necessarily mean I'm sitting in the bedding area or

1370
01:10:53,120 --> 01:10:57,519
Speaker 1: in the food source, but I'm pretty close. So that's

1371
01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:01,519
Speaker 1: that's more the pre rod. So how are you choosing?

1372
01:11:02,040 --> 01:11:04,960
Speaker 1: You know? Okay, again we're talking about how we're prioritizing,

1373
01:11:05,040 --> 01:11:07,439
Speaker 1: you know, different days. We've prioritized days, But then how

1374
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:10,599
Speaker 1: do you prioritize a certain betting area or a certain

1375
01:11:10,600 --> 01:11:12,280
Speaker 1: food source, because I'm sure you know you're looking at

1376
01:11:12,320 --> 01:11:15,040
Speaker 1: your farm and you have done something to know. Okay,

1377
01:11:15,080 --> 01:11:17,559
Speaker 1: I think there's betting here, I think there's food here.

1378
01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:20,240
Speaker 1: But then the next question that naturally people are thinking

1379
01:11:20,240 --> 01:11:21,880
Speaker 1: through is Okay, I know I want to be by

1380
01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:23,360
Speaker 1: betting area in the morning, or I know I want

1381
01:11:23,400 --> 01:11:25,759
Speaker 1: to be by good food source. Then they start saying, okay,

1382
01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:28,919
Speaker 1: which one? And so I think we've talked about trail cameras,

1383
01:11:28,920 --> 01:11:32,320
Speaker 1: we talked about scouting, we talked about sightings. What of

1384
01:11:32,360 --> 01:11:35,280
Speaker 1: all those, if any or anything else are you using

1385
01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:38,599
Speaker 1: to then choose the the specific food source you're hunting

1386
01:11:38,600 --> 01:11:41,679
Speaker 1: in the evening? Well, I I do love my trail cameras.

1387
01:11:41,800 --> 01:11:44,160
Speaker 1: And for one that shows me if there's a sure

1388
01:11:44,160 --> 01:11:46,240
Speaker 1: box in the property or not. It showed me when

1389
01:11:46,240 --> 01:11:48,280
Speaker 1: they come on the property, when they don't, showed me

1390
01:11:48,280 --> 01:11:51,280
Speaker 1: if they're coming to in the day or at night. Um,

1391
01:11:51,280 --> 01:11:54,000
Speaker 1: But at the same time, the direction they're coming from,

1392
01:11:54,080 --> 01:11:56,759
Speaker 1: you should give me some clue as to what betting

1393
01:11:56,760 --> 01:11:59,200
Speaker 1: area they're choosing to stay at during the day. And

1394
01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:02,880
Speaker 1: so if I knew that a monster bok was hanging

1395
01:12:02,880 --> 01:12:05,400
Speaker 1: back out in this corner in a betting area, then

1396
01:12:05,920 --> 01:12:08,439
Speaker 1: that would be my priority stand location and where I'd

1397
01:12:08,439 --> 01:12:10,160
Speaker 1: want to go back into the edge of that betting area,

1398
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:13,800
Speaker 1: walk in the opposite direction from the food. So in

1399
01:12:13,840 --> 01:12:15,760
Speaker 1: the morning, when I'm walking in the dark, I'm not

1400
01:12:15,800 --> 01:12:17,439
Speaker 1: going through the food stars, I'm coming in from the

1401
01:12:17,439 --> 01:12:21,200
Speaker 1: exact opposite way, thinking that that box is somewhere between

1402
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:22,960
Speaker 1: that food and his betting. He might already be in

1403
01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:25,040
Speaker 1: his betting. But this time of year there's a lot

1404
01:12:25,080 --> 01:12:27,200
Speaker 1: of social activity taking place in the morning. They're making

1405
01:12:27,240 --> 01:12:29,840
Speaker 1: rub scrapes from chasing does, and so I have a

1406
01:12:29,880 --> 01:12:32,559
Speaker 1: lot more of a likelihood of sneaking into the backside

1407
01:12:32,560 --> 01:12:34,920
Speaker 1: of a betting area waiting for a buck to come

1408
01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:36,400
Speaker 1: back to me at this time of the year than

1409
01:12:36,439 --> 01:12:39,080
Speaker 1: I do October tenth, for example, or maybe even October.

1410
01:12:40,320 --> 01:12:43,719
Speaker 1: And so what I'm also doing is there's some pretty

1411
01:12:43,720 --> 01:12:47,200
Speaker 1: good value sit in the evening too, And so I'm

1412
01:12:47,240 --> 01:12:49,719
Speaker 1: looking at if I'm gonna if I'm gonna sit three times,

1413
01:12:49,880 --> 01:12:52,479
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna say, hunt two mornings in one evening.

1414
01:12:53,400 --> 01:12:55,080
Speaker 1: Where can I sit in the morning that I'm not

1415
01:12:55,600 --> 01:12:58,479
Speaker 1: potentially ruining that evening set if I happen to bump

1416
01:12:58,479 --> 01:13:01,360
Speaker 1: a deer and vice for so I'm really thinking about

1417
01:13:01,439 --> 01:13:04,679
Speaker 1: my next two to three sets out and making sure

1418
01:13:04,760 --> 01:13:08,120
Speaker 1: that you're moving from point A to point B and

1419
01:13:08,160 --> 01:13:10,680
Speaker 1: then they're also moving from point feed and point B,

1420
01:13:11,560 --> 01:13:14,439
Speaker 1: and I'm not getting into both those lines or one

1421
01:13:14,479 --> 01:13:16,840
Speaker 1: of those lines and destroying for that evening hunt. I'm

1422
01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:20,280
Speaker 1: saving another line and movement for you know, the next morning,

1423
01:13:20,280 --> 01:13:23,640
Speaker 1: in the next evening. I'm trying to prior to prioritize

1424
01:13:23,680 --> 01:13:25,400
Speaker 1: my sets that way so that I can maintain a

1425
01:13:25,479 --> 01:13:28,519
Speaker 1: high value and a freshening with each set. I also

1426
01:13:28,600 --> 01:13:31,920
Speaker 1: in each area most of my really high quality areas

1427
01:13:31,960 --> 01:13:35,280
Speaker 1: that I love to really focus on, I'll usually have

1428
01:13:35,360 --> 01:13:39,000
Speaker 1: two to three complimentary stands, and so one area can

1429
01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:41,960
Speaker 1: think of particularized I can't wait to hunt this weekend.

1430
01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:43,960
Speaker 1: It will be the first set. It's a triangle of

1431
01:13:44,040 --> 01:13:46,639
Speaker 1: stands um the one I can hunt with sutherly winds

1432
01:13:46,640 --> 01:13:48,519
Speaker 1: in the evening, the other one I can hit with

1433
01:13:48,680 --> 01:13:51,559
Speaker 1: hunt with northerly winds all day, either morning or evening,

1434
01:13:51,880 --> 01:13:54,200
Speaker 1: and the other one has to be southwesterly winds to

1435
01:13:54,280 --> 01:13:56,680
Speaker 1: westerly winds in the morning. And so it gives me

1436
01:13:56,720 --> 01:13:58,880
Speaker 1: a great compliment of stands I can hunt just about

1437
01:13:58,920 --> 01:14:03,559
Speaker 1: any wind condition morning, evening, midday doesn't really matter. If

1438
01:14:03,600 --> 01:14:05,200
Speaker 1: I know there's a big buck up there, which there

1439
01:14:05,360 --> 01:14:07,400
Speaker 1: there always is that I can go into one of

1440
01:14:07,439 --> 01:14:11,000
Speaker 1: those stands and and get a high quality set. But

1441
01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:12,960
Speaker 1: after I sit in there that one time, I'll probably

1442
01:14:13,000 --> 01:14:16,439
Speaker 1: skip over and hunt another set, um, you know, for

1443
01:14:16,439 --> 01:14:19,120
Speaker 1: for the next set or you know, the following morning.

1444
01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:23,600
Speaker 1: So are you ever looking at an area, uh, in

1445
01:14:23,680 --> 01:14:28,080
Speaker 1: particular stand and in setting a morning in an evening

1446
01:14:28,200 --> 01:14:30,320
Speaker 1: or an evening in a morning to try to catch

1447
01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:34,320
Speaker 1: movement coming back and forth if in fact the wind

1448
01:14:34,760 --> 01:14:38,760
Speaker 1: is the same. Yeah, And there's a lot of times where,

1449
01:14:39,439 --> 01:14:41,120
Speaker 1: you know, when when we're out in the whole country,

1450
01:14:41,120 --> 01:14:43,280
Speaker 1: you can cheat the wind a lot, which is different

1451
01:14:43,280 --> 01:14:45,479
Speaker 1: than the flat land. I mean, I live in Michigan

1452
01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:49,200
Speaker 1: forty two years, so it's pretty flat. They're compared to

1453
01:14:49,560 --> 01:14:52,120
Speaker 1: you know out here. But that being said, if you

1454
01:14:52,160 --> 01:14:55,559
Speaker 1: can get away with hunting both those mornings, there's times where, um,

1455
01:14:55,960 --> 01:14:58,439
Speaker 1: let's say the total movement from where I think a

1456
01:14:58,479 --> 01:15:00,920
Speaker 1: buck betting is to where I think he's really generally

1457
01:15:00,920 --> 01:15:05,760
Speaker 1: spending his evening and nighttime hours. Um, let's say it's

1458
01:15:05,760 --> 01:15:08,880
Speaker 1: four hundred yards along that movement or three hundred yards,

1459
01:15:09,160 --> 01:15:12,160
Speaker 1: why might come in the opposite direction, get a good

1460
01:15:12,200 --> 01:15:16,040
Speaker 1: morning hunt, and then leave that same way, and then

1461
01:15:16,040 --> 01:15:18,400
Speaker 1: I'll flip around in the afternoon for a nice three

1462
01:15:18,439 --> 01:15:21,439
Speaker 1: or four hour sit. Actually walk in through the food

1463
01:15:21,479 --> 01:15:24,479
Speaker 1: source and get into my stand location and let my

1464
01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:27,240
Speaker 1: wind blow into a safe way. And so in that way,

1465
01:15:27,320 --> 01:15:30,240
Speaker 1: I'm hunting both ends of the movement. And if I

1466
01:15:30,240 --> 01:15:32,479
Speaker 1: feel that I got in non invasively in the morning,

1467
01:15:32,520 --> 01:15:35,400
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't hear any spooks, I didn't hear

1468
01:15:35,439 --> 01:15:37,360
Speaker 1: anything blown at me while I was on the stand,

1469
01:15:37,360 --> 01:15:40,519
Speaker 1: and I thought I got away with a good clean sit. Um.

1470
01:15:41,160 --> 01:15:44,120
Speaker 1: I will certainly try that at times too. Are all

1471
01:15:44,240 --> 01:15:47,640
Speaker 1: your stands pre hung then, or do you do? Do

1472
01:15:47,680 --> 01:15:51,280
Speaker 1: you set up a lot of stands throughout the year? Yeah,

1473
01:15:51,360 --> 01:15:54,599
Speaker 1: most of my stands are pretty hung. Um. Now, when

1474
01:15:54,600 --> 01:15:56,760
Speaker 1: we go down to Ohio and hunt on public land,

1475
01:15:56,840 --> 01:15:58,280
Speaker 1: we have a few that we set a couple of

1476
01:15:58,320 --> 01:16:00,960
Speaker 1: weeks ago. But at the same time we have a

1477
01:16:00,960 --> 01:16:04,320
Speaker 1: lot of trees that we've marked for climbers and so,

1478
01:16:04,439 --> 01:16:07,760
Speaker 1: and I do use climbers occasionally around here. Um. I

1479
01:16:07,840 --> 01:16:10,560
Speaker 1: like actually the comfort of a climber. I like the portability.

1480
01:16:10,600 --> 01:16:14,120
Speaker 1: I do not like the noise I'm walking in with it. Um,

1481
01:16:14,160 --> 01:16:16,120
Speaker 1: you know, I period already takes me fifty minutes to

1482
01:16:16,120 --> 01:16:18,120
Speaker 1: get to some of my stands walking up four hundred

1483
01:16:18,160 --> 01:16:21,760
Speaker 1: feet in elevation, so to put a climber on my

1484
01:16:21,800 --> 01:16:24,840
Speaker 1: back along with the extra way to have on my front,

1485
01:16:25,560 --> 01:16:27,880
Speaker 1: and then it gets me pretty tired out by the

1486
01:16:27,880 --> 01:16:30,160
Speaker 1: time I'm up there. So, UM, I try to have

1487
01:16:30,240 --> 01:16:34,559
Speaker 1: those pre hung stands um cleaned out and ready to go,

1488
01:16:34,640 --> 01:16:38,519
Speaker 1: and then I'll use a climber when I need that flexibility.

1489
01:16:39,160 --> 01:16:41,320
Speaker 1: You mentioned that when you're sitting up for those mornings,

1490
01:16:41,360 --> 01:16:42,800
Speaker 1: since at this time of year you like to be

1491
01:16:42,800 --> 01:16:44,960
Speaker 1: I think you said like a hundred a hundred fifty

1492
01:16:45,040 --> 01:16:47,000
Speaker 1: yards from where you think that betting area is trying

1493
01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:49,080
Speaker 1: to be kind of close into there on the flip

1494
01:16:49,120 --> 01:16:53,200
Speaker 1: side in the evening, are you relating more to I

1495
01:16:53,240 --> 01:16:55,400
Speaker 1: know you mentioned that you're relating more to the food source,

1496
01:16:55,640 --> 01:16:59,000
Speaker 1: but I'm just curious about the relativity of being near

1497
01:16:59,000 --> 01:17:00,640
Speaker 1: to that food. So so are you right on the

1498
01:17:00,680 --> 01:17:03,400
Speaker 1: food or do you like to still usually try to

1499
01:17:03,400 --> 01:17:05,360
Speaker 1: stay pretty far off. I know from some of the

1500
01:17:05,360 --> 01:17:07,479
Speaker 1: stuff I've read it from you, you've talked a lot

1501
01:17:07,560 --> 01:17:10,640
Speaker 1: about the lines of movement and and placing yourself on that,

1502
01:17:10,680 --> 01:17:12,200
Speaker 1: but I'd love to hear a little more about that

1503
01:17:12,360 --> 01:17:14,679
Speaker 1: and um, you know, and if that factors into your

1504
01:17:14,680 --> 01:17:17,840
Speaker 1: distance from food or distance from the prime food, things

1505
01:17:17,880 --> 01:17:20,160
Speaker 1: like that. Well, one of the things I'm kind of

1506
01:17:20,160 --> 01:17:22,280
Speaker 1: looking at absolutes too, and one of those things is

1507
01:17:22,360 --> 01:17:25,320
Speaker 1: that absolute is where is the staging area. So staging

1508
01:17:25,360 --> 01:17:27,679
Speaker 1: area to me is a is a really thick area,

1509
01:17:27,920 --> 01:17:33,759
Speaker 1: brushy area, high stem count, density of regeneration, conifers, grasses, briers,

1510
01:17:34,200 --> 01:17:37,639
Speaker 1: kind of that mix where that last step of safety

1511
01:17:37,720 --> 01:17:40,800
Speaker 1: that a deer we'll go through from its secure bedding,

1512
01:17:40,960 --> 01:17:44,080
Speaker 1: secure travel corridor, gets to that edge in that staging

1513
01:17:44,120 --> 01:17:45,840
Speaker 1: area and when it pops out of there, it's really

1514
01:17:45,880 --> 01:17:48,759
Speaker 1: heading towards food. And so a lot of times because

1515
01:17:48,800 --> 01:17:51,240
Speaker 1: of the stem density and the proximity of food, those

1516
01:17:51,280 --> 01:17:54,120
Speaker 1: areas also become dull family group betting areas. And so

1517
01:17:54,200 --> 01:17:57,439
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to do is um really protect that.

1518
01:17:57,520 --> 01:17:59,840
Speaker 1: So I'm thinking of a spot that I hunted into

1519
01:17:59,840 --> 01:18:02,439
Speaker 1: the evening. It was in two thousand eleven, shot a

1520
01:18:02,479 --> 01:18:05,720
Speaker 1: real nice five six year old buck, beautiful buck on

1521
01:18:05,800 --> 01:18:10,720
Speaker 1: October two, and I was able to position myself. There

1522
01:18:10,840 --> 01:18:13,479
Speaker 1: was betting areas on benches down below the flat that

1523
01:18:13,560 --> 01:18:16,639
Speaker 1: I was on, and then there was a staging area

1524
01:18:16,960 --> 01:18:20,200
Speaker 1: that was probably about seventy to eight yards from where

1525
01:18:20,439 --> 01:18:23,200
Speaker 1: my stand location was. And so if you can kind

1526
01:18:23,240 --> 01:18:26,519
Speaker 1: of imagine, I'm coming into this stand location to my

1527
01:18:26,720 --> 01:18:31,360
Speaker 1: left and approximately within seventy fifty yards there's high quality betting.

1528
01:18:31,920 --> 01:18:35,000
Speaker 1: To my right, about seventy eight yards there's a staging

1529
01:18:35,040 --> 01:18:38,120
Speaker 1: area with highly high likelihood that there was some doll

1530
01:18:38,200 --> 01:18:41,280
Speaker 1: family groups bedding. And then about thirty yards out in

1531
01:18:41,320 --> 01:18:43,000
Speaker 1: the grass from there was the start of one our

1532
01:18:43,120 --> 01:18:46,559
Speaker 1: food plots. That was that food plight. The deer could

1533
01:18:46,600 --> 01:18:48,960
Speaker 1: go in either direction for five and fifty yards one

1534
01:18:49,000 --> 01:18:51,360
Speaker 1: way or four hundred yards in the other. And what

1535
01:18:51,479 --> 01:18:54,120
Speaker 1: I like about not having a big circular food plot

1536
01:18:54,200 --> 01:18:56,840
Speaker 1: at that point is once a deer entered that food

1537
01:18:56,880 --> 01:18:59,200
Speaker 1: source in the evening, it really stretched him out, so

1538
01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:02,240
Speaker 1: more deer and move more deer. Those deer pulled out

1539
01:19:02,280 --> 01:19:04,280
Speaker 1: in the middle of the fields away from the field edge,

1540
01:19:04,760 --> 01:19:07,200
Speaker 1: and uh, and that to me helps more deer cycle

1541
01:19:07,320 --> 01:19:11,400
Speaker 1: through too. So in that case, UM, I actually shot

1542
01:19:11,479 --> 01:19:13,719
Speaker 1: that buck with maybe forty five minutes to go before

1543
01:19:13,840 --> 01:19:16,160
Speaker 1: dark as he was cruising between that staging area and

1544
01:19:16,160 --> 01:19:18,640
Speaker 1: the bedding area, and uh, it was kind of a

1545
01:19:18,800 --> 01:19:21,880
Speaker 1: dead area, almost a secure travel but more of a

1546
01:19:21,960 --> 01:19:25,639
Speaker 1: travel corridor on benches and funnels than than actually coming

1547
01:19:25,680 --> 01:19:28,320
Speaker 1: into its basically coming in between doll bedding and buck

1548
01:19:28,360 --> 01:19:31,120
Speaker 1: betting on a more of an open flat um and

1549
01:19:31,160 --> 01:19:34,640
Speaker 1: the doll betting be in the staging area. Okay, And

1550
01:19:35,080 --> 01:19:39,640
Speaker 1: coming up here is Adam Hayes. He has been on

1551
01:19:39,720 --> 01:19:43,679
Speaker 1: a number of TV shows, including Team two hundred, which

1552
01:19:43,720 --> 01:19:47,720
Speaker 1: has been his latest. Uh. He's killed a whole lot

1553
01:19:47,800 --> 01:19:51,240
Speaker 1: of impressive deer, including uniquely compared to a lot of people,

1554
01:19:51,360 --> 01:19:53,840
Speaker 1: four different bucks over two inches, and he does us

1555
01:19:53,840 --> 01:19:58,040
Speaker 1: in a very targeted, specific, strategic way, which makes his

1556
01:19:58,160 --> 01:20:01,640
Speaker 1: input very interesting. Here's some quick ideas from Adam on

1557
01:20:01,760 --> 01:20:05,240
Speaker 1: hunting October. You talked about the success that you have

1558
01:20:05,520 --> 01:20:08,280
Speaker 1: towards the end of October, partly in that period of

1559
01:20:08,280 --> 01:20:11,000
Speaker 1: time that people call the October lowell um. And from

1560
01:20:11,280 --> 01:20:12,880
Speaker 1: some of the things I've read you, you've certainly killed

1561
01:20:12,920 --> 01:20:14,640
Speaker 1: some of your giant bucks during that time. Firm and

1562
01:20:14,840 --> 01:20:17,320
Speaker 1: I understand that you know what we've been talking about

1563
01:20:17,479 --> 01:20:20,000
Speaker 1: the moon and understanding to be patient and waiting to

1564
01:20:20,080 --> 01:20:22,240
Speaker 1: push in until those conditions are right. I know it's

1565
01:20:22,240 --> 01:20:24,879
Speaker 1: a big part of your your kind of formula for success.

1566
01:20:24,960 --> 01:20:27,720
Speaker 1: But what else are you doing at that time of year.

1567
01:20:28,040 --> 01:20:30,240
Speaker 1: What are the other pieces of that puzzle in late

1568
01:20:30,280 --> 01:20:33,240
Speaker 1: October that are helping you have success because people struggle

1569
01:20:33,280 --> 01:20:37,040
Speaker 1: with that sometimes. Yeah, well it goes back to really

1570
01:20:37,120 --> 01:20:39,680
Speaker 1: seeing the big picture and understanding what's going on that

1571
01:20:39,800 --> 01:20:43,800
Speaker 1: time of the year. You know, if if you're after

1572
01:20:43,920 --> 01:20:47,920
Speaker 1: a specific animal and you want your best opportunity to

1573
01:20:48,080 --> 01:20:51,920
Speaker 1: kill that animal, you need to concentrate on when that

1574
01:20:52,000 --> 01:20:54,240
Speaker 1: animal is going to be the most predictable and the

1575
01:20:54,320 --> 01:20:59,200
Speaker 1: most patternable, and that's early season, before you've got into

1576
01:20:59,520 --> 01:21:02,799
Speaker 1: into the rut when he's chasing all over the place.

1577
01:21:03,080 --> 01:21:05,519
Speaker 1: Late season, they've been pressured for three or four months

1578
01:21:05,520 --> 01:21:07,960
Speaker 1: and they're on edge every little thing they hear and

1579
01:21:08,240 --> 01:21:12,920
Speaker 1: smell and see. Early season is I think it's your

1580
01:21:13,000 --> 01:21:17,479
Speaker 1: best chance to kill a specific animal. And you know

1581
01:21:17,600 --> 01:21:19,840
Speaker 1: a lot of people talk about the October law and

1582
01:21:19,920 --> 01:21:23,600
Speaker 1: how tough it is to hunt. Yeah, it is in

1583
01:21:23,720 --> 01:21:26,160
Speaker 1: a sense. But you know, I learned this from Andre

1584
01:21:26,920 --> 01:21:31,880
Speaker 1: is that those animals are doing the exact same thing

1585
01:21:32,120 --> 01:21:35,080
Speaker 1: pretty much every day. All they're doing is they're betting

1586
01:21:35,360 --> 01:21:37,360
Speaker 1: and they're feeding, and they're going from A to B

1587
01:21:38,960 --> 01:21:42,479
Speaker 1: and they're doing it in a very very small area.

1588
01:21:42,640 --> 01:21:46,760
Speaker 1: They're not traveling very far at all. They're they're very

1589
01:21:46,920 --> 01:21:50,360
Speaker 1: vulnerable because they're so predictable and powerable because they're doing

1590
01:21:50,400 --> 01:21:54,600
Speaker 1: the same thing every day. But they're very tough to

1591
01:21:54,720 --> 01:21:57,040
Speaker 1: kill because they're doing it in a very small area

1592
01:21:57,160 --> 01:21:59,360
Speaker 1: and you're normally only going to get one chance to

1593
01:21:59,520 --> 01:22:02,880
Speaker 1: invade need that little area before games over, and it

1594
01:22:03,000 --> 01:22:07,400
Speaker 1: completely changes his pattern. He goes nocternal, he goes to

1595
01:22:07,560 --> 01:22:10,519
Speaker 1: the next farm over. I don't believe they run out

1596
01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:13,439
Speaker 1: of the county, but they will definitely change their patterns.

1597
01:22:13,520 --> 01:22:16,120
Speaker 1: So you're only going to get one crack at him hurling.

1598
01:22:17,200 --> 01:22:21,040
Speaker 1: So that's when the late season scouting comes into play.

1599
01:22:21,760 --> 01:22:24,679
Speaker 1: That's when you know knowing what these animals are doing,

1600
01:22:25,880 --> 01:22:28,759
Speaker 1: where they're at, you know where they're betting, where they're feeding,

1601
01:22:28,840 --> 01:22:30,439
Speaker 1: how they're getting back and forth or made to be,

1602
01:22:30,680 --> 01:22:32,640
Speaker 1: Knowing where the weak spot that where you need to

1603
01:22:32,680 --> 01:22:36,000
Speaker 1: be to kill him, having things set up, knowing what

1604
01:22:36,200 --> 01:22:38,720
Speaker 1: wins you need to get into that spot to kill him.

1605
01:22:39,080 --> 01:22:43,000
Speaker 1: You know, maybe having some strategically placed trail cameras along

1606
01:22:43,080 --> 01:22:45,759
Speaker 1: that pattern, so you know when that animal is moving

1607
01:22:45,840 --> 01:22:50,880
Speaker 1: during daylight and um, like I said, it's a tough

1608
01:22:51,320 --> 01:22:54,560
Speaker 1: time to hunt, but if you really understand what's going on,

1609
01:22:55,160 --> 01:22:58,080
Speaker 1: it's your best chance to kill him the mature buck,

1610
01:22:58,120 --> 01:23:01,200
Speaker 1: because he's doing the exact scene thing every day. It

1611
01:23:01,320 --> 01:23:04,080
Speaker 1: just makes it very difficulty to get it done on

1612
01:23:04,200 --> 01:23:06,840
Speaker 1: more than one occasion because, like I said, you you

1613
01:23:06,920 --> 01:23:10,400
Speaker 1: walk into the that buck's bedroom in mid October and

1614
01:23:10,479 --> 01:23:13,280
Speaker 1: you don't kill him in the game, is it either

1615
01:23:13,360 --> 01:23:16,800
Speaker 1: got tougher or it's over because he's gonna be somewhere else.

1616
01:23:16,880 --> 01:23:19,280
Speaker 1: He's gonna know you were in there. And it's just

1617
01:23:21,439 --> 01:23:24,240
Speaker 1: that's why it's so tough for guys, like I said,

1618
01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:27,920
Speaker 1: to not hunt a big gear everything's perfect, and then

1619
01:23:28,080 --> 01:23:30,320
Speaker 1: once you get it perfect, you know how to get

1620
01:23:30,400 --> 01:23:33,439
Speaker 1: into that area without disturbing atting animal and you kill

1621
01:23:33,520 --> 01:23:35,920
Speaker 1: him the first time in when he's got the wind

1622
01:23:35,960 --> 01:23:38,320
Speaker 1: in the moon in disavor, get in and get him out.

1623
01:23:38,360 --> 01:23:42,320
Speaker 1: Andrey used to say it was he was surgically removing

1624
01:23:42,360 --> 01:23:43,960
Speaker 1: a big buck from the face of the earth. And

1625
01:23:44,040 --> 01:23:45,760
Speaker 1: that's really rich. How you got to look at it.

1626
01:23:46,400 --> 01:23:49,120
Speaker 1: You're looking at it like a surgeon. Think about the

1627
01:23:49,160 --> 01:23:52,479
Speaker 1: amount of after the surgeon puts them to you know,

1628
01:23:53,080 --> 01:23:56,439
Speaker 1: not only you know, being able to practice medicine, but

1629
01:23:57,600 --> 01:24:00,559
Speaker 1: knowing what he needs to do in that rating room

1630
01:24:00,600 --> 01:24:03,360
Speaker 1: before he goes in there. And it's really it's that

1631
01:24:03,560 --> 01:24:05,479
Speaker 1: black and white. I mean, you got to go in

1632
01:24:05,560 --> 01:24:10,120
Speaker 1: there and surgically remove that animal. Yeah, I love that analogy.

1633
01:24:10,240 --> 01:24:12,519
Speaker 1: That's that's one that I'm gonna I don't start using.

1634
01:24:12,560 --> 01:24:15,320
Speaker 1: I like it. Um So, something you mentioned, and it's

1635
01:24:15,360 --> 01:24:17,920
Speaker 1: something that you know, I've always have believed, I think

1636
01:24:17,960 --> 01:24:20,400
Speaker 1: to degrees during that time of year, typically if you

1637
01:24:20,479 --> 01:24:23,599
Speaker 1: have all these things in your favor, is it safe

1638
01:24:23,640 --> 01:24:26,200
Speaker 1: to say that you are usually trying to get closer

1639
01:24:26,400 --> 01:24:28,960
Speaker 1: to a betting area at that time of year, when

1640
01:24:29,000 --> 01:24:30,439
Speaker 1: you have the right conditions, when you know where the

1641
01:24:30,439 --> 01:24:32,519
Speaker 1: buck is. Most of those huns, those kill sets are

1642
01:24:32,560 --> 01:24:34,920
Speaker 1: probably tight in the bedroom because of like you mentioned,

1643
01:24:34,920 --> 01:24:40,000
Speaker 1: the fact that these bucks are using a really small area. Yeah.

1644
01:24:40,200 --> 01:24:42,960
Speaker 1: I mean, for the most part, I think those deer

1645
01:24:43,200 --> 01:24:46,400
Speaker 1: moving around, you know, in the area why hunt in

1646
01:24:46,479 --> 01:24:49,439
Speaker 1: central Ohio, They're not moving very far between their bed

1647
01:24:49,600 --> 01:24:52,240
Speaker 1: and where they're feeding. A hundred two hundred yards mac,

1648
01:24:52,400 --> 01:24:55,439
Speaker 1: So wherever you're at, you're pretty darn close to where

1649
01:24:55,479 --> 01:25:00,479
Speaker 1: he's betting. Yeah, can you have my best I've had

1650
01:25:00,560 --> 01:25:04,639
Speaker 1: my best luck on those on those sets in evening hunts,

1651
01:25:05,320 --> 01:25:09,080
Speaker 1: I very very rarely ever try a morning hut early

1652
01:25:09,160 --> 01:25:12,120
Speaker 1: season on those animals. But if I'm going to, if

1653
01:25:12,160 --> 01:25:14,800
Speaker 1: I've tried it once or twice in the evening and

1654
01:25:14,920 --> 01:25:18,680
Speaker 1: haven't got it done, and I know right where that

1655
01:25:18,760 --> 01:25:20,960
Speaker 1: animal is betting, and then maybe I have a stand

1656
01:25:21,040 --> 01:25:24,439
Speaker 1: already hung in that bedding area, I will not go

1657
01:25:24,560 --> 01:25:27,160
Speaker 1: into that bedding area on an early season hunt until

1658
01:25:27,240 --> 01:25:31,200
Speaker 1: I have that red moon time one to three hours

1659
01:25:31,400 --> 01:25:35,400
Speaker 1: after daylight. I've witnessed it on a handful of occasions,

1660
01:25:36,160 --> 01:25:40,160
Speaker 1: seen a big, you know, two class animal coming back

1661
01:25:40,200 --> 01:25:44,160
Speaker 1: to bed late on those overhead times late in the morning,

1662
01:25:44,200 --> 01:25:46,280
Speaker 1: and that lives were the only times that animal came

1663
01:25:46,320 --> 01:25:50,840
Speaker 1: back late. So so they're stay, they're feeding a little

1664
01:25:50,960 --> 01:25:56,479
Speaker 1: later because the moon is telling them to not go

1665
01:25:56,640 --> 01:26:00,600
Speaker 1: back to bed yet. Yeah, instead of know that that

1666
01:26:01,040 --> 01:26:03,439
Speaker 1: that moontime hitting in the middle of the night and

1667
01:26:03,520 --> 01:26:06,400
Speaker 1: they fed and they're laying down and starts cracking daylight

1668
01:26:06,439 --> 01:26:09,160
Speaker 1: and they're heading back and get into their bed before

1669
01:26:09,360 --> 01:26:14,040
Speaker 1: shooting light. They're actually feeding closer to daylight, and you

1670
01:26:14,120 --> 01:26:16,840
Speaker 1: have a better chance to than seeding, you know, in

1671
01:26:16,960 --> 01:26:19,360
Speaker 1: the daylight and coming back just a little bit late.

1672
01:26:21,160 --> 01:26:22,920
Speaker 1: So how how much of a buffer are you giving

1673
01:26:22,960 --> 01:26:25,240
Speaker 1: yourself when you go into those tree stands as far

1674
01:26:25,320 --> 01:26:27,880
Speaker 1: as time is concerned, are you going in two hours early?

1675
01:26:28,000 --> 01:26:33,800
Speaker 1: One hour early? You're talking about mornings or evings or

1676
01:26:33,840 --> 01:26:39,960
Speaker 1: both mornings, Well, mornings, I'd like to get in super

1677
01:26:40,040 --> 01:26:42,439
Speaker 1: early because I want everything to have a chance to

1678
01:26:43,479 --> 01:26:45,679
Speaker 1: calm down. And I'm I mean, if I go into

1679
01:26:46,160 --> 01:26:48,160
Speaker 1: trying to dive into a bedding area in the morning,

1680
01:26:49,000 --> 01:26:51,040
Speaker 1: I'm taking my time. I mean, I don't want to

1681
01:26:51,080 --> 01:26:54,479
Speaker 1: break a twig. I don't want to bang my bow

1682
01:26:54,560 --> 01:26:56,320
Speaker 1: up against the stand. I mean, I don't want to

1683
01:26:56,360 --> 01:27:00,240
Speaker 1: do anything. I'm I'm doing everything in slow motion because

1684
01:27:00,280 --> 01:27:02,880
Speaker 1: you just can't make any mistakes in a betting area

1685
01:27:02,920 --> 01:27:06,280
Speaker 1: in the morning. So I give myself twice as much

1686
01:27:06,400 --> 01:27:08,439
Speaker 1: time as I think I need to get into my

1687
01:27:08,560 --> 01:27:14,479
Speaker 1: spot undetected, you know, literally tiptoing into a spot, and

1688
01:27:14,800 --> 01:27:18,040
Speaker 1: you know, given myself an hour before daylight for everything

1689
01:27:18,120 --> 01:27:21,360
Speaker 1: to maybe calm down a little bit and just to

1690
01:27:21,479 --> 01:27:24,439
Speaker 1: make sure that that animal is nowhere close to the

1691
01:27:24,479 --> 01:27:26,720
Speaker 1: begging area if if it's at all possible when I

1692
01:27:26,800 --> 01:27:30,519
Speaker 1: get in there. And to wrap us up, we've got

1693
01:27:30,560 --> 01:27:33,360
Speaker 1: a couple of excerpts from my very first conversation on

1694
01:27:33,439 --> 01:27:37,360
Speaker 1: the Wired Hunt podcast with Mark Jury. If you've listened

1695
01:27:37,360 --> 01:27:39,479
Speaker 1: to any of our other more recent episodes of them,

1696
01:27:39,640 --> 01:27:42,360
Speaker 1: you know he's a wealth of information. Here. He's going

1697
01:27:42,439 --> 01:27:46,280
Speaker 1: to talk through some thoughts on morning hunts in October,

1698
01:27:46,680 --> 01:27:50,719
Speaker 1: on the October lull, on some weather factors related to October,

1699
01:27:51,280 --> 01:27:54,519
Speaker 1: and then some of his high level thoughts on different

1700
01:27:54,600 --> 01:27:58,360
Speaker 1: phases of this month. So here we go. Now, I

1701
01:27:58,439 --> 01:28:00,559
Speaker 1: want to go off on a brief tangent here um

1702
01:28:01,280 --> 01:28:04,240
Speaker 1: because Dan and I, over the past weeks and really

1703
01:28:04,280 --> 01:28:06,120
Speaker 1: the last year or two we've been doing this, we

1704
01:28:06,200 --> 01:28:09,679
Speaker 1: have an ongoing debate about morning hunts, and we asked

1705
01:28:09,720 --> 01:28:11,479
Speaker 1: this to our guest last week and now you just

1706
01:28:11,600 --> 01:28:13,240
Speaker 1: briefly mentioned this and it made me think about So

1707
01:28:13,240 --> 01:28:16,679
Speaker 1: I want to get your opinion real fast, um, hunting

1708
01:28:16,800 --> 01:28:20,120
Speaker 1: mornings in October in general, is that something you would

1709
01:28:20,120 --> 01:28:24,799
Speaker 1: be for or against. I will hunt every first morning

1710
01:28:24,840 --> 01:28:27,320
Speaker 1: at the front and none of the others until the

1711
01:28:27,400 --> 01:28:29,760
Speaker 1: latter part of October. Then I will hunt every morning

1712
01:28:29,880 --> 01:28:33,640
Speaker 1: until about Thanksgiving. Okay, and can you so, can you

1713
01:28:33,720 --> 01:28:36,120
Speaker 1: explain to us why you don't hunt all those other

1714
01:28:36,200 --> 01:28:40,080
Speaker 1: mornings in October. I lack of movement and spoken deer

1715
01:28:40,280 --> 01:28:43,000
Speaker 1: getting into their bedroom. They're not moving very far for

1716
01:28:43,120 --> 01:28:45,519
Speaker 1: the most part. It's an afternoon game. I mean, their

1717
01:28:45,680 --> 01:28:48,639
Speaker 1: afternoon is it's like our morning. You know that they've

1718
01:28:48,640 --> 01:28:50,240
Speaker 1: been bed at all day. That's when they get up

1719
01:28:50,280 --> 01:28:53,160
Speaker 1: and by early morning they're going back to bed. The

1720
01:28:53,280 --> 01:28:56,080
Speaker 1: first morning the front is awesome. Regardless of what the

1721
01:28:56,160 --> 01:28:59,599
Speaker 1: date is in October, it is amazing that first north

1722
01:29:00,000 --> 01:29:02,760
Speaker 1: early morning. I don't care if it's October two or

1723
01:29:04,040 --> 01:29:06,280
Speaker 1: fifty threat in the middle of the well, that morning

1724
01:29:06,360 --> 01:29:10,600
Speaker 1: will be phenomenal. Guarantee. Yeah, that's good. That's good to know.

1725
01:29:10,720 --> 01:29:14,000
Speaker 1: I think it continues to evolve me and Dan's thoughts

1726
01:29:14,040 --> 01:29:16,600
Speaker 1: and opinions on this too, hearing the different perspectives, and

1727
01:29:16,680 --> 01:29:19,080
Speaker 1: that makes a lot of sense. Waiting for the fronts.

1728
01:29:19,120 --> 01:29:20,479
Speaker 1: I tend to do that a lot when it comes

1729
01:29:20,520 --> 01:29:23,120
Speaker 1: to even the evening hunts, and it makes sense that

1730
01:29:23,160 --> 01:29:25,439
Speaker 1: those morning hunts could really still be great even early

1731
01:29:25,560 --> 01:29:29,360
Speaker 1: on with that right man, that firs morning is awesome.

1732
01:29:29,800 --> 01:29:31,880
Speaker 1: It's just awesome, and they're they're in a good mood,

1733
01:29:31,960 --> 01:29:34,639
Speaker 1: they're moving around, and that what happens to to stay

1734
01:29:34,640 --> 01:29:37,080
Speaker 1: on the feed later, right, so they're late coming back

1735
01:29:37,120 --> 01:29:38,880
Speaker 1: to bed. And now this is provided you're in the

1736
01:29:39,000 --> 01:29:41,599
Speaker 1: right spot. You know, you can go goople any hunt

1737
01:29:41,640 --> 01:29:43,439
Speaker 1: up by hunting the wrong place at the wrong time.

1738
01:29:43,520 --> 01:29:45,599
Speaker 1: It's all about trying to get the right place at

1739
01:29:45,600 --> 01:29:48,160
Speaker 1: the right time. But generally they're on the food later

1740
01:29:48,640 --> 01:29:50,720
Speaker 1: and then they're going to be later coming back to bed,

1741
01:29:50,840 --> 01:29:53,840
Speaker 1: So therefore you're going to see daylight activity, whereas most

1742
01:29:53,920 --> 01:29:58,599
Speaker 1: mornings without that front, they're at bed are already betted

1743
01:29:58,640 --> 01:30:00,840
Speaker 1: by the time and stay break. That's my experience. And

1744
01:30:01,040 --> 01:30:05,519
Speaker 1: in October, yeah, so on on that particular instance, are

1745
01:30:05,560 --> 01:30:08,000
Speaker 1: you gonna be hunting near the betting area where they're

1746
01:30:08,000 --> 01:30:10,120
Speaker 1: coming back, or are you gonna be hunting some kind

1747
01:30:10,160 --> 01:30:13,080
Speaker 1: of transition or pinch point to catch them coming back

1748
01:30:13,439 --> 01:30:16,720
Speaker 1: to their bed. It depends on the mask cop that year.

1749
01:30:16,760 --> 01:30:18,479
Speaker 1: If there's a mash crop, I'm gonna be somewhere on

1750
01:30:18,560 --> 01:30:20,959
Speaker 1: an on an oak plat, or somewhere where there's acorns,

1751
01:30:20,960 --> 01:30:25,160
Speaker 1: because they're phenomenal throughout October on the coal propts that

1752
01:30:25,160 --> 01:30:27,880
Speaker 1: if there's not much of a mash crop, I'm probably

1753
01:30:27,920 --> 01:30:30,160
Speaker 1: going to be not far off of a food plot

1754
01:30:30,520 --> 01:30:32,719
Speaker 1: in a known betting area because they're just not moving

1755
01:30:32,840 --> 01:30:35,960
Speaker 1: very far off where their their primary food sources. What

1756
01:30:36,080 --> 01:30:41,360
Speaker 1: about specifically a morning hunt, That's what I was talking about. Okay,

1757
01:30:41,520 --> 01:30:44,479
Speaker 1: I got you. That's that's exactly what in the morning,

1758
01:30:44,560 --> 01:30:47,800
Speaker 1: that's where I go in October for those types of hunts,

1759
01:30:47,840 --> 01:30:49,679
Speaker 1: how early are you gonna be getting into your stands

1760
01:30:49,720 --> 01:30:55,800
Speaker 1: in the morning? Did I lose you? He? Can you hear? Mark? Oh?

1761
01:30:55,840 --> 01:30:57,800
Speaker 1: There you are? Okay, yep. It was just curious for

1762
01:30:57,960 --> 01:31:00,760
Speaker 1: those morning hunts in October, how earlier you trying to

1763
01:31:00,800 --> 01:31:04,200
Speaker 1: get into your stand in the morning? Fairly early, it's

1764
01:31:04,200 --> 01:31:06,680
Speaker 1: a thirty minutes before the first thought of like I

1765
01:31:07,080 --> 01:31:09,960
Speaker 1: that's they're just not far and not moving very far,

1766
01:31:10,120 --> 01:31:12,200
Speaker 1: So you better use the cover of darkness. And if you're,

1767
01:31:12,680 --> 01:31:16,280
Speaker 1: if you're, you get away with so much more during

1768
01:31:16,320 --> 01:31:18,360
Speaker 1: the cover of darkness than you do even at the

1769
01:31:18,760 --> 01:31:21,439
Speaker 1: first hint of light. It's so much easier to blow

1770
01:31:21,520 --> 01:31:23,479
Speaker 1: deer out at the first sin of light then when

1771
01:31:23,520 --> 01:31:25,320
Speaker 1: it's black dark. Did you ever notice that, like if

1772
01:31:25,360 --> 01:31:27,120
Speaker 1: you go in your stand, it's black dark, one might

1773
01:31:27,160 --> 01:31:29,599
Speaker 1: bounce thirty or forty yards, but yet when it gets light,

1774
01:31:29,680 --> 01:31:32,240
Speaker 1: you still see that deer, whereas if you're climbing up

1775
01:31:32,240 --> 01:31:33,800
Speaker 1: and there's a little light, you're gonna blow and plumb

1776
01:31:33,800 --> 01:31:37,320
Speaker 1: out of the country. I love black dark during October. Yeah,

1777
01:31:37,880 --> 01:31:41,200
Speaker 1: definitely much safer approach that way. That's for sure, much safer,

1778
01:31:41,280 --> 01:31:44,320
Speaker 1: and it's more important then than during the rut. Now,

1779
01:31:44,439 --> 01:31:47,000
Speaker 1: I got a question for you. You just brought it up,

1780
01:31:47,600 --> 01:31:50,760
Speaker 1: um in one of your last comments about the October law.

1781
01:31:51,280 --> 01:31:55,840
Speaker 1: All right, So what we've talked about so far, you know,

1782
01:31:55,920 --> 01:32:00,360
Speaker 1: the barometric pack pressure, the consistent winds, that the first

1783
01:32:00,439 --> 01:32:03,960
Speaker 1: change in a wind direction, the cooler temperatures. Am I

1784
01:32:04,080 --> 01:32:08,000
Speaker 1: to assume that your definition of the October law is

1785
01:32:08,160 --> 01:32:15,240
Speaker 1: the opposite of all those? Well, October law. It's also

1786
01:32:15,360 --> 01:32:17,920
Speaker 1: what I call the October swell. There's a defined period

1787
01:32:18,040 --> 01:32:20,120
Speaker 1: or a defined phase in the middle part of October

1788
01:32:20,200 --> 01:32:22,880
Speaker 1: where they come out of their feeding pattern that they're

1789
01:32:22,960 --> 01:32:25,519
Speaker 1: into heavily from you know, from the time they dropped

1790
01:32:25,520 --> 01:32:28,960
Speaker 1: the velvet until about October the chance through the fourteenth

1791
01:32:29,040 --> 01:32:30,920
Speaker 1: that varies year to year. When they go into the law,

1792
01:32:31,320 --> 01:32:36,120
Speaker 1: But from then untill about October, there is a definitely

1793
01:32:37,040 --> 01:32:39,800
Speaker 1: subdued movement period there in October. Unless it's a major

1794
01:32:39,880 --> 01:32:42,479
Speaker 1: could front. You have to have cold to have a

1795
01:32:42,600 --> 01:32:47,360
Speaker 1: decent day, in my opinion. So in those situations where

1796
01:32:47,400 --> 01:32:49,679
Speaker 1: you do get you know, I'm gonna continue to drill

1797
01:32:49,760 --> 01:32:53,559
Speaker 1: on these examples. Let's say now we're in that dreaded

1798
01:32:53,640 --> 01:32:57,400
Speaker 1: quote unquote October law. You do get that front. Is

1799
01:32:57,439 --> 01:32:59,120
Speaker 1: that just a situation where you're going to move into

1800
01:32:59,280 --> 01:33:01,200
Speaker 1: one of your Is that would you move into one

1801
01:33:01,240 --> 01:33:03,200
Speaker 1: of your better stands at that point, or even though

1802
01:33:03,360 --> 01:33:05,360
Speaker 1: you have a front, you're still gonna wait till a

1803
01:33:05,479 --> 01:33:09,120
Speaker 1: better time period, maybe later in the year. No, I'll

1804
01:33:09,120 --> 01:33:11,479
Speaker 1: go into it, and you have to recognize what's happening

1805
01:33:11,560 --> 01:33:13,439
Speaker 1: during this well I said, they go into it looking

1806
01:33:13,479 --> 01:33:15,800
Speaker 1: one way and they come out looking another way. I mean,

1807
01:33:15,920 --> 01:33:19,000
Speaker 1: that is the build up, that's the testosterone going from

1808
01:33:19,479 --> 01:33:22,280
Speaker 1: ground zero up to where it peaks to where all

1809
01:33:22,400 --> 01:33:25,360
Speaker 1: the daylight activity happens there during seeking phase of the

1810
01:33:25,400 --> 01:33:29,519
Speaker 1: pre route there in late October. That that period when

1811
01:33:29,600 --> 01:33:32,160
Speaker 1: you do get a cold front, that's when you look

1812
01:33:32,240 --> 01:33:35,439
Speaker 1: back historically at your pictures and you go where was

1813
01:33:35,520 --> 01:33:37,680
Speaker 1: I getting daylight activity or where was it getting a

1814
01:33:37,800 --> 01:33:41,000
Speaker 1: certain Bucks picture a lot during this date range. Chances

1815
01:33:41,040 --> 01:33:43,480
Speaker 1: are it's in and around the scrape. We always transition

1816
01:33:43,560 --> 01:33:47,479
Speaker 1: all of our cameras off of travel or food during

1817
01:33:47,560 --> 01:33:50,599
Speaker 1: the greater pasture sphase. When we go into the October law,

1818
01:33:50,920 --> 01:33:53,280
Speaker 1: that's the time we transition every camera we have the

1819
01:33:53,360 --> 01:33:56,120
Speaker 1: scrapes because scrapes are gonna absolutely light up during that

1820
01:33:56,240 --> 01:34:00,280
Speaker 1: phase and you you can go middle part of color.

1821
01:34:00,360 --> 01:34:02,200
Speaker 1: In fact, it is the best time to hunt scrapes

1822
01:34:02,439 --> 01:34:04,120
Speaker 1: is during the law, but you need a cold front

1823
01:34:04,320 --> 01:34:08,160
Speaker 1: to actually get one on Steet movie. And the one

1824
01:34:08,240 --> 01:34:10,880
Speaker 1: thing that we've kind of talked about interspersed throughout all

1825
01:34:10,920 --> 01:34:12,960
Speaker 1: these different factors is the time of the year. And

1826
01:34:13,040 --> 01:34:15,519
Speaker 1: you mentioned your show thirteen and the fact that you

1827
01:34:15,600 --> 01:34:18,840
Speaker 1: guys broke down the year into thirteen different phases. Could you,

1828
01:34:19,360 --> 01:34:22,400
Speaker 1: you know, briefly walk us through what those phases are.

1829
01:34:22,400 --> 01:34:23,640
Speaker 1: We touched on a few of them, but could you

1830
01:34:23,680 --> 01:34:25,559
Speaker 1: walk us through what those phases are that you guys

1831
01:34:25,680 --> 01:34:28,040
Speaker 1: believe are you know, distinct, and maybe give us a

1832
01:34:28,120 --> 01:34:30,840
Speaker 1: quick like you're one main thing to note about each

1833
01:34:30,880 --> 01:34:34,400
Speaker 1: one of those phases. It's that possible you know I

1834
01:34:36,920 --> 01:34:41,880
Speaker 1: can't do it off the top. I give you my

1835
01:34:42,000 --> 01:34:47,640
Speaker 1: favorite hold on down there, let me get through this.

1836
01:34:47,920 --> 01:34:55,160
Speaker 1: The moment the first days is September the fifteenth, and

1837
01:34:55,240 --> 01:34:59,679
Speaker 1: let's just coincide with when the Missouri season helping September st.

1838
01:35:01,320 --> 01:35:04,400
Speaker 1: And that's the phase we call the new Beginning. Uh.

1839
01:35:04,600 --> 01:35:06,800
Speaker 1: It's if you're on one, there's a good chance you're

1840
01:35:06,800 --> 01:35:08,760
Speaker 1: gonna kill him if you get a weather front. It's

1841
01:35:08,840 --> 01:35:11,040
Speaker 1: all about food source that time, and it's all about

1842
01:35:11,040 --> 01:35:14,559
Speaker 1: trail pictures and your summer observation, etcetera, etcetera. I love

1843
01:35:14,680 --> 01:35:16,680
Speaker 1: that phase. I also love the phase that follows it,

1844
01:35:16,960 --> 01:35:21,200
Speaker 1: which is greener Pastor September through October the twelve. To me,

1845
01:35:21,600 --> 01:35:25,400
Speaker 1: greener Pastors is one of the best phases to kill

1846
01:35:25,479 --> 01:35:29,280
Speaker 1: him the tur buck because there's a defoliation that goes

1847
01:35:29,360 --> 01:35:31,880
Speaker 1: on during this phase throughout the Midwest. And I'm only

1848
01:35:31,960 --> 01:35:34,599
Speaker 1: talking in terms of the hunting that I've observed here

1849
01:35:34,600 --> 01:35:38,040
Speaker 1: in Missouri, Iowa, Illinois, and Kansas. Well, those beans that

1850
01:35:38,160 --> 01:35:41,920
Speaker 1: we're planted back in May and Junior eventually turned from

1851
01:35:42,000 --> 01:35:45,200
Speaker 1: green to brown and defoliate. There is a major switch

1852
01:35:45,360 --> 01:35:48,080
Speaker 1: within the herd to go to the next green food source.

1853
01:35:48,760 --> 01:35:51,240
Speaker 1: And if you've got that green food source close to

1854
01:35:51,320 --> 01:35:54,320
Speaker 1: where you've seen the tur buck all summer, you're gonna

1855
01:35:54,400 --> 01:35:56,720
Speaker 1: go through what I call greenw green transfer. There's a

1856
01:35:56,800 --> 01:35:58,960
Speaker 1: good chance he's going to transfer from that green bean

1857
01:35:59,000 --> 01:36:01,600
Speaker 1: field and you're green plot. The difference is the b

1858
01:36:01,760 --> 01:36:03,800
Speaker 1: field might have been forty acres and your green field

1859
01:36:03,840 --> 01:36:07,719
Speaker 1: might be one to three acres, a much smaller target

1860
01:36:07,800 --> 01:36:10,400
Speaker 1: area to try and kill that dear. That phase, to

1861
01:36:10,520 --> 01:36:12,639
Speaker 1: me is one of the best of the whole year.

1862
01:36:13,439 --> 01:36:17,840
Speaker 1: Um October three, we'll talk about the October Law trus

1863
01:36:17,960 --> 01:36:20,280
Speaker 1: days overall, and you gotta have a cold front and

1864
01:36:20,439 --> 01:36:23,160
Speaker 1: mornings can be quite good. We key in on scrapes

1865
01:36:23,200 --> 01:36:26,000
Speaker 1: with our cameras and with our hunting tactics. We're gonna

1866
01:36:26,080 --> 01:36:28,840
Speaker 1: key in on scrapes in around that October Law with

1867
01:36:28,920 --> 01:36:30,960
Speaker 1: gilt and get here during that period because they're still

1868
01:36:31,000 --> 01:36:33,200
Speaker 1: on food source and they're not moving very fart. But

1869
01:36:33,280 --> 01:36:34,800
Speaker 1: you gotta have a weather front in order to do

1870
01:36:35,560 --> 01:36:39,719
Speaker 1: pre luck. October November the first. To me, this phase

1871
01:36:39,880 --> 01:36:42,360
Speaker 1: is all about killing the oldest, biggest gear in the

1872
01:36:42,439 --> 01:36:45,400
Speaker 1: herd if you can find him, especially with those historical

1873
01:36:45,479 --> 01:36:47,720
Speaker 1: pictures like we were talking about you can get on

1874
01:36:47,960 --> 01:36:52,320
Speaker 1: and kill that particular dear. This sphase, why because it's

1875
01:36:52,720 --> 01:36:55,679
Speaker 1: one of the few phases where that really old hear

1876
01:36:56,080 --> 01:36:58,800
Speaker 1: is actually on his feet. He's looking for the first

1877
01:36:58,840 --> 01:37:02,240
Speaker 1: available dough to give the first hint of asterisk. And

1878
01:37:02,320 --> 01:37:04,439
Speaker 1: I don't know that they're really ready to breathe yet

1879
01:37:04,560 --> 01:37:07,599
Speaker 1: during this space, but he's certainly ready to start tending

1880
01:37:07,720 --> 01:37:11,040
Speaker 1: her seven to ten days before he breathes her. But

1881
01:37:11,200 --> 01:37:13,280
Speaker 1: she said that one thing that old was sucking her

1882
01:37:13,600 --> 01:37:15,000
Speaker 1: is going to be the first one to find the

1883
01:37:15,080 --> 01:37:17,240
Speaker 1: one that's felling the vest I love that face where

1884
01:37:17,320 --> 01:37:21,240
Speaker 1: really mature deer. All right. So there you have it.

1885
01:37:21,840 --> 01:37:24,479
Speaker 1: H a lot to take in there, I realize in

1886
01:37:24,800 --> 01:37:27,680
Speaker 1: in a little bit all over the place. But I

1887
01:37:27,880 --> 01:37:31,120
Speaker 1: think that if you take a little bit from each

1888
01:37:31,160 --> 01:37:34,240
Speaker 1: of these different people, you can come into this next

1889
01:37:34,320 --> 01:37:38,200
Speaker 1: month with a lot of different little tricks up your sleeve,

1890
01:37:38,320 --> 01:37:40,639
Speaker 1: I think, and some things to think about the next

1891
01:37:40,720 --> 01:37:42,760
Speaker 1: time you're thinking about should I hunt this day or not?

1892
01:37:43,120 --> 01:37:45,479
Speaker 1: Or should I hunt this tree stand or not? Or

1893
01:37:45,560 --> 01:37:47,960
Speaker 1: should I worry about the October law or not. I'm

1894
01:37:48,000 --> 01:37:49,800
Speaker 1: hoping that this podcast is going to give you a

1895
01:37:49,880 --> 01:37:53,080
Speaker 1: starting point and point you in the right direction. As

1896
01:37:53,120 --> 01:37:56,320
Speaker 1: I mentioned at the top, these were just little bits

1897
01:37:56,360 --> 01:37:59,679
Speaker 1: from much larger conversations, so go back and listen to these.

1898
01:38:00,320 --> 01:38:05,400
Speaker 1: Gordon Whittington was episode number one, Dan Infalt was episode

1899
01:38:05,479 --> 01:38:10,240
Speaker 1: number twenty seven, Bernie Barringer was episode number one. See

1900
01:38:10,800 --> 01:38:14,840
Speaker 1: Jeff Sturgis was number seventy seven, Adam Hayes was number

1901
01:38:14,960 --> 01:38:19,000
Speaker 1: sixty nine, and Mark Jury was number sixty three. Check

1902
01:38:19,080 --> 01:38:21,880
Speaker 1: those out. Each one is jam packed with a lot

1903
01:38:21,960 --> 01:38:25,280
Speaker 1: more information than we just heard here. So that's gonna

1904
01:38:25,320 --> 01:38:28,000
Speaker 1: do it. I hope you guys enjoyed this one. Hopefully

1905
01:38:28,080 --> 01:38:30,680
Speaker 1: this provided you something helpful to kick off the month

1906
01:38:30,760 --> 01:38:33,800
Speaker 1: of October. It's a roller coaster, guys, and we are

1907
01:38:33,960 --> 01:38:37,639
Speaker 1: just beginning to head up that first hill, and I'm pumped.

1908
01:38:38,040 --> 01:38:40,920
Speaker 1: This is the best time of year. Enjoy it, soak

1909
01:38:41,000 --> 01:38:43,840
Speaker 1: it in, hunt as much as you possibly can, um

1910
01:38:44,280 --> 01:38:49,120
Speaker 1: because you know, don't don't neglect important obligations and responsibilities,

1911
01:38:49,160 --> 01:38:51,920
Speaker 1: of course, but I can tell you from experience that

1912
01:38:52,280 --> 01:38:53,960
Speaker 1: I look forward to this all year and then the

1913
01:38:54,040 --> 01:38:57,360
Speaker 1: month goes by so fast, just a blank and it's gone.

1914
01:38:57,479 --> 01:39:00,479
Speaker 1: So for whatever kind of time the energy you can

1915
01:39:00,520 --> 01:39:03,439
Speaker 1: put into, at least enjoy soak it in and uh

1916
01:39:03,680 --> 01:39:07,200
Speaker 1: just realize and remember these are special, special times, the

1917
01:39:07,320 --> 01:39:11,200
Speaker 1: best of luck, shoot straight, have fun, be safe, and

1918
01:39:11,439 --> 01:39:14,080
Speaker 1: stay wired to hunt.