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Speaker 1: This is Kelly Henderson and you're listening to the Velvet

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Speaker 1: Edge podcast. This steing on the podcast. My guest is

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Speaker 1: singer songwriter Joy Williams. I had never met Joy before

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Speaker 1: this interview, but immediately upon meeting her, I felt like

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Speaker 1: I had known her for a million years. And because

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Speaker 1: of that, our conversation was incredibly raw and open. We

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Speaker 1: talked about music, of course, but I also wanted to

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Speaker 1: hear about life experiences from Joy. She is mostly known

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Speaker 1: for her part in the duo the Civil Wars, so

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Speaker 1: we talked about that experience and of course demise of

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Speaker 1: that band, what she learned about herself through that process,

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Speaker 1: and how you pick up and start again after seeing

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Speaker 1: your dreams realized and then broken. She also told me

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Speaker 1: her top three career moments, including her matching tattoo with Adele.

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Speaker 1: No big deal, here's my new friend, Joy. I'm here

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Speaker 1: with Joy Williams. I feel like we're fast friends. We

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Speaker 1: just literally sat down and it was we just off

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Speaker 1: to the races. We went through the interior design. We

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Speaker 1: covered a lot of things. You know, Andrew glasses right

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Speaker 1: not today are matching the wall that now I'm asking

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Speaker 1: about paint colors, about so I'm feeling very on brand today. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so most people probably do know you from the Civil Wars,

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Speaker 1: wouldn't you say, oh yeah, or that girl from the

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Speaker 1: Civil Girl? Right? How did that go with? Like do

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Speaker 1: people like huge career before and now after? Well, it's

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Speaker 1: an interesting thing that a lot of people don't know

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Speaker 1: that I started in faith based music when I was seventeen. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so most people do know me from you know, when

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Speaker 1: I was in my mid to late twenties in you know,

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Speaker 1: in this Americana folk duo. But before I was singing

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Speaker 1: songs that were like super pop and like very churchy um.

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Speaker 1: And I was raised in a pretty conservative way growing up.

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Speaker 1: I grew up in northern California most of my life,

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Speaker 1: but which was an odd combo to grow up in

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Speaker 1: Santa Cruz County and and then grew up in a

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Speaker 1: really conservative household. Yeah, I do not associate the two. No,

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Speaker 1: neither do I, and I grew up in it. But

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Speaker 1: somehow I think it kind of played into everything else

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Speaker 1: that's happened, you know, moving forward. It brought like this

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Speaker 1: openness and this curiosity about you know, what does life

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Speaker 1: look like in the juxtaposition of like how all of

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Speaker 1: these things worked together to form us into who we are. UM.

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Speaker 1: But I left doing that kind of music when I

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Speaker 1: was twenty three. I just felt like I was feeling

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Speaker 1: really hemmed in and my world view was shifting and

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Speaker 1: deepening in a different way and um, and I didn't

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Speaker 1: know what I was gonna do. I mean, I sat

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Speaker 1: on my couch for a good solid several months when

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Speaker 1: it's like what I started at seventeen, so I mean

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Speaker 1: that people are graduating high school and I did, but

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Speaker 1: back and forth, like flying recording my album my senior

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Speaker 1: year and um, and then just like trying to get

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Speaker 1: to volleyball practice on time. So it was like an

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Speaker 1: interesting way to grow. But once I moved to Nashville

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Speaker 1: on my own eighteen, I had no idea what lay ahead.

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Speaker 1: So it was lots of trial and error and I

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Speaker 1: was on the road like two fifty days my first year,

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Speaker 1: eighteen bus full of bros. Let me just say, I

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Speaker 1: don't recommend that totally. I mean, you learn really really

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Speaker 1: quickly how to hold your ground and um and stay

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Speaker 1: with yourself. And it was really fun. Some of it

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Speaker 1: was really great. But by the time I got to

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Speaker 1: the Civil Wars, you know, I'd already been in the

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Speaker 1: industry several years, you know, almost almost a decade, and

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Speaker 1: so it was funny when people would say that it's

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Speaker 1: like it was an overnight success, you know, and it's

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Speaker 1: like it took some time. You know. It's like small

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Speaker 1: hinges on a really large door. I'd spent a lot

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Speaker 1: of time being on the road meeting people, learning how

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Speaker 1: to write songs and craft those and and it was

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Speaker 1: so good. It was such a great learning experience for

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Speaker 1: me personally and professionally. It was really painful in some

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Speaker 1: ways too, But I, UM, I've learned the importance of

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Speaker 1: UM staying with myself and what happens when I don't,

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Speaker 1: and and how important it is to trust my instincts

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Speaker 1: and UM and to not be afraid to speak up

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Speaker 1: when that needs to happen. And I think we as women,

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Speaker 1: women and men. I shouldn't just say women, but I

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Speaker 1: think women and men somehow, at different points in time,

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Speaker 1: we get cultured to think that we can't speak up

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Speaker 1: when we need to, when we when we really ought to.

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Speaker 1: And so I learned that kind of the hard way.

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Speaker 1: But I will say that I got to do like

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Speaker 1: bucket like like bucket list experiences, you know, like meeting

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Speaker 1: and Paul McCartney and like hanging out. I mean, the

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Speaker 1: list could go on and on and on about the

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Speaker 1: things that I'd always hoped to do in my career,

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Speaker 1: working my ass off to get to that spot and

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Speaker 1: finally experiencing that was really awesome. And then I describe

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Speaker 1: it as a little bit like seeing the backside of

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Speaker 1: Disney World, that it's really exciting. And then you turn

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Speaker 1: around and you go, Okay, there's a lot more to

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Speaker 1: life than just the as well, you worked really really

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Speaker 1: hard to get to a certain place, and then you

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Speaker 1: see it and you go, oh wait, there's more and

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Speaker 1: not more stuff or like more accolades to get, but

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Speaker 1: it means there's more in life to to look at

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Speaker 1: what really matters to you and why and um and

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Speaker 1: that taught me. That era taught me that in a

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Speaker 1: really stark way. Wow, that's a huge part of the

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Speaker 1: owning yourself. I think it's used. But if you started

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Speaker 1: at seventeen, didn't, don't you feel like you had to

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Speaker 1: learn that pretty fast? Jeez? I mean yeah, And what

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Speaker 1: a weird way to like learn about yourself while people

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Speaker 1: clapped for you every night? Right? That can really tweak

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Speaker 1: with your brain. And I don't I don't say that

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Speaker 1: as like way why. I mean, that's not like a

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Speaker 1: crime er river. Um. It just was what it was.

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Speaker 1: It was how I how I grew up. But it

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Speaker 1: was really good that when I left doing music in

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Speaker 1: that way at that age that I had a lot

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Speaker 1: of time. I mean, I didn't know what I was

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Speaker 1: going to do. I hadn't finished college. I didn't even

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Speaker 1: go I mean I graduated validatory in from my high

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Speaker 1: school and did go to college because I already had

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Speaker 1: this career. How did you graduate valedictorian If you're like

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Speaker 1: going back and forth doing music, I'm a nerd, really smart.

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Speaker 1: I am a nerd. I am a nerd. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if I don't know, if I I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what makes someone smart or not, but

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Speaker 1: I but I did. I was a kid that was like,

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Speaker 1: let me see if I can do that, let me

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Speaker 1: see if I can do that, let me try that.

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Speaker 1: I think I can do that. And at the time,

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Speaker 1: I was like that kid that just really always wanted

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Speaker 1: the gold star. Yeah, And I think I think some

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Speaker 1: of that was helpful and some of that wasn't you know,

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Speaker 1: I laughed that I've been a recovering perfectionist. Same I

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Speaker 1: can tell I can't. Well, it takes one to no one.

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Speaker 1: It takes one to no one, I know. But but

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Speaker 1: also it sitting down with you, I can tell you're

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Speaker 1: very kind, and I can also tell you're probably really

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Speaker 1: hard on yourself exactly, so you're very empathetic, am I

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Speaker 1: am you are too, so you feel it? Yeah, I do,

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Speaker 1: and them. And that's why it would probably be fun

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Speaker 1: if you and I had a cocktail afterwards, because we'd

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Speaker 1: probably it's a little earlier, not now, but yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think it's life finds a way to handy your

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Speaker 1: own ass and to remind you and to remind you

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Speaker 1: that it's not about doing things perfectly. It's about showing

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Speaker 1: up to the best of your ability with your heart

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Speaker 1: and your and your integrity intact, and that will get

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Speaker 1: challenged as we grow, you know, and mistakes happen, and

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Speaker 1: that's the part. That's what is that there's a there's

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Speaker 1: like a Japanese art where basically it's you would probably

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Speaker 1: know it. It's that you take a bowl and you

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Speaker 1: let it drop, it breaks into a million pieces, and

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Speaker 1: you solder it back in the exact same form that

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Speaker 1: it is, but with the gold or with some kind

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Speaker 1: of precious metal, and the basically it becomes that much

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Speaker 1: more valuable because it broke, so the gold goes into

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Speaker 1: the cracks. So I think that's kind of like life.

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Speaker 1: I love that. Wow, I remember the term for it.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I'm not that much of a nerd now that

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Speaker 1: I can't remember. So did kids make fun of you

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Speaker 1: in school when you would go to the music stuff?

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Speaker 1: Kids are so hard? I was secret. No. I basically

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Speaker 1: didn't talk about it because I was afraid of getting

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Speaker 1: made fun and I didn't know how it was going

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Speaker 1: to go either. I mean, it was like is this

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Speaker 1: I don't know this is going to work out, so

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Speaker 1: I don't put it out there yet. And I was

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Speaker 1: too busy doing other things. I mean, I was in

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Speaker 1: my school student council. Was cool. Yeah, Um, so you're

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Speaker 1: probably president guilty, yes, but I will say my I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna say that my my best friend Ashley Graham.

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Speaker 1: Shout out to Ashley, Um was the one that didn't everything,

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Speaker 1: although that would be interesting, that was sweet, Um, I don't.

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Speaker 1: I mean I look back at life and I think

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Speaker 1: how hard. I was trying. I was trying so hard,

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Speaker 1: and I think this, like this era of my life,

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Speaker 1: and even from porch kind of has the representation of

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Speaker 1: what does it look like? In my mom that was

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Speaker 1: a total fragment sentence, Um, what does it look like

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Speaker 1: to try and not try so hard? And that's what

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Speaker 1: my mom said to me a few years ago. She said,

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Speaker 1: the thing with you, Joys, you don't need to try harder,

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Speaker 1: you need to try less. And that really stuck with

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Speaker 1: me because after my dad passed away, after and all

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Speaker 1: in the same era of like having having a small child,

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Speaker 1: my dad passing away from cancer, and my um my

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Speaker 1: duo um imploding, in part because I spoke up. It

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Speaker 1: just it just leveled everything for me and I thought,

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Speaker 1: you know, Venus was kind of a representation of what

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Speaker 1: it looks like for me to exert. It was like

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Speaker 1: I wanted to explore, I wanted to push the boundaries.

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Speaker 1: How can I do this? What am I capable of?

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Speaker 1: And I am really proud of that record. But that

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Speaker 1: record was such a sonic departure from the Civil Wars

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Speaker 1: that a lot of people were like, what the hell

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Speaker 1: is she doing? Which record are you talking about? Venus

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Speaker 1: was the solo album that came after the last Civil Wars,

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Speaker 1: and that was on Columbia Records, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: people don't know about it, um, and that's okay, But

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Speaker 1: it was almost like I needed to cleanse my palette

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Speaker 1: and be like, okay, that was I'm capable of making

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Speaker 1: that music, But what does it look like to really

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Speaker 1: love what I do and do what I love? And

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Speaker 1: and I just started. I just went back to playing

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Speaker 1: with the guitar, you know, and singing and just telling

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Speaker 1: a story. And that's how Front Paid, Front Porch came about.

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Speaker 1: And it just felt so much more like me and

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Speaker 1: so much less about proving a point. Because I had

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Speaker 1: somebody in a UM at a record label, a very

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Speaker 1: prominent person like high up in the company at the time,

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Speaker 1: UM tell me, well, no one really wants to hear

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Speaker 1: you unless you're standing next to a man. They are.

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Speaker 1: These are hitting on so many points that I want

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Speaker 1: to ask you, and I'm starting like blah blah blah. No,

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Speaker 1: I'm just so curious. I mean, we'd obviously so you

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Speaker 1: did start in Chris to music, and then you took

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Speaker 1: a break as then I did music for TV film

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Speaker 1: which Okay, let's talk a little bit about that. Do

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Speaker 1: you feel like when you do things like that. Obviously

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Speaker 1: the paychecks are great, yes, they can be. They can be,

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Speaker 1: or they used to be more than they are now exactly,

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Speaker 1: and then sometimes it becomes this you know, this niche

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Speaker 1: for people. But do you did you, as a musician,

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Speaker 1: a serious musician at that point, feel like a sellout ever?

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Speaker 1: Or did you get any ship for that? It was

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Speaker 1: it was a form of function. It was a way

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Speaker 1: for me to create and provide for myself and my family.

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Speaker 1: And um, it didn't feel like selling out because I honestly,

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Speaker 1: because I'd been doing Christian music, it to me was

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Speaker 1: a really safe sort of lily pad leap into. It

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Speaker 1: was a little bit more in the background so I

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Speaker 1: could create that music. And I got I got shipped

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Speaker 1: for having transferred out of making like faith based musically.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'm mean, And that's okay, that's that's fine.

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Speaker 1: It happens. But um, are you still religious? I would

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Speaker 1: say that my spirituality has deepened and widened. That's what

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Speaker 1: I would say. That's the Christian you know it about it? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I think, I think, I think if we really get

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Speaker 1: down to it, there's a lot that we can all

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Speaker 1: agree on if we really got past some of the

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Speaker 1: picket fences that we put up. Some more spirituality. Yeah, Um,

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Speaker 1: I do think I do very much feel like it's

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Speaker 1: important to have a true North, you know, um, and

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Speaker 1: to do no harm I think that's really important. Um.

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Speaker 1: But what were we talking about? So you were saying

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Speaker 1: that you got out of the Christian are the faith based? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that to do TV film, that's what you were

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Speaker 1: asking about. It didn't feel like a sea. It felt

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Speaker 1: like can I still do music if I don't have

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Speaker 1: these parameters set for me? So it actually worked out

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Speaker 1: really well. Like I wrote a bunch of things that

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Speaker 1: went on Gray's Anatomy, and you know, I got back

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Speaker 1: in the hated it was I loved Great Anatomy. We

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Speaker 1: all um and uh. And then I randomly wrote a

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Speaker 1: single that became a single, a jingle for Oscar Meyer.

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Speaker 1: I read about that who did that that the money

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Speaker 1: for Deli Meat would become the seedbed for financially funding

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Speaker 1: independently what would become the Civil Wars At the time,

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Speaker 1: my husband and I like took that money and we

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Speaker 1: put it into the Civil Wars. And and then it.

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Speaker 1: It was the little engine that could, and we worked

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Speaker 1: our asses off and I'm so grateful that it did

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Speaker 1: work until it didn't. And then, as all things do,

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Speaker 1: all there's a season for all those things. And and

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Speaker 1: now this is the season that I'm in again of

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Speaker 1: you know, making solo music and not afraid to go

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Speaker 1: back to the roots and and the sheer simplicity of

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Speaker 1: writing just with a guitar and a vocal. And I

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Speaker 1: did that when I was eighteen. I did that when

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Speaker 1: I was twenty three. I did that when I was

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Speaker 1: twenty seven. I did that, you know, and I'm still

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Speaker 1: doing that. Um. And I'm not afraid to. Now what

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Speaker 1: what do the Buddhists say, include and transcend? Like to

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Speaker 1: bring all this? I'm like on front ports, You've got

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Speaker 1: some spiritual language, but I'm going to turn in it

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Speaker 1: on its ear a little bit. It's like a little

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Speaker 1: bit of a raygrin on some of it. Um. And

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Speaker 1: then I'm not afraid to go back to that rootsy

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Speaker 1: aspect of writing. Like when I wrote in the Civil Wars,

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Speaker 1: it was mostly just John Paul and I writing. So

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Speaker 1: the contribution that I put into that I didn't I

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Speaker 1: think I was afraid to own that at a certain

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Speaker 1: point in time. And I'm not afraid to do that

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Speaker 1: anymore because I am really proud of the music that

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Speaker 1: we made. But don't you think I mean because you

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Speaker 1: guys did meet at a writing with it a conference

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Speaker 1: or like a writing camp. Yeah, And for another artist,

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Speaker 1: do you have that thing where you especially in a partnership.

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Speaker 1: I personally struggle with this sometimes I think the other person,

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Speaker 1: even though I'm bringing the same thing to the table,

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Speaker 1: I think for some reason they know better or with

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Speaker 1: they're saying is right, And I start to question myself,

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Speaker 1: did you do that in that relationship? Oh? Man, Yes,

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Speaker 1: that's a woman thing too, I think a little bit.

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Speaker 1: And I think we've been cultured out I think there.

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Speaker 1: I remember someone saying at a certain point that men

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Speaker 1: are cultured out of their hearts and women are cultured

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Speaker 1: out of their bodies. Wow. And I wept actually when

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Speaker 1: I heard that, because it was it just hit me

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Speaker 1: like a ton of bricks, because well, I think we

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Speaker 1: all have moments where we go. Man, if I only

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Speaker 1: just remember my worth and my value totally, I would

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Speaker 1: have responded so differently in that moment. I would have

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Speaker 1: had less regrets I would have maybe said that more clearly. Um,

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Speaker 1: there's this book have you read it by um Clarissa

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Speaker 1: s d s. And she's a PhD. And it's called

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Speaker 1: Women Who Run with the Wolves And it is it's

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Speaker 1: um all these stories around from around the world that

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Speaker 1: um and she talks about the history of each of

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Speaker 1: those stories and how it correlates to women and what

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Speaker 1: we've been cultured out of and what we have within

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Speaker 1: us at any point in time if we need it.

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Speaker 1: To me, I'm like, it should be required reading for

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Speaker 1: And you have to re listen to this podcast so

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Speaker 1: I can remember, well, I'm taking notes on the art

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Speaker 1: on the artist that's on your wall right now. But

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Speaker 1: it's I think that book in particular. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: have a I have a ten she's ten months old today.

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Speaker 1: I have a ten month old daughter right now, and

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Speaker 1: and I think to myself, I really want to make

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Speaker 1: sure that I ingest this, the wisdom of this, and

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Speaker 1: the wisdom from my mom and and the wisdom that

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Speaker 1: I'm getting, so I can pass it down to her

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Speaker 1: and hopefully she can feel the shift within her to

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Speaker 1: trust her instincts more. What happened for you, Like when

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Speaker 1: you you said you felt like you kind of have

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Speaker 1: been sort of cultured to sort of differ, And I

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Speaker 1: was too. I totally was too. There's lots of moments

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Speaker 1: where I'm like, well, surely they must know more than me,

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Speaker 1: and I go since says, well, that's what I'm learning.

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Speaker 1: The older I get is they just everyone's just trying

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Speaker 1: to figure it out all the time. None of us

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Speaker 1: really know what if anyone says they do, do you

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Speaker 1: kind of I sometimes question it now because I just

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Speaker 1: know that's not true, you know. I think it's like

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Speaker 1: when you're growing up and you look at your parents

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Speaker 1: and you just think they know what they're doing because

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Speaker 1: they're your parents. They don't have a clue. Well, they

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Speaker 1: were just doing the best they could do exactly. And

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Speaker 1: I think that's what I'm realizing is that's okay to

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Speaker 1: wake up every day and not have every answer. Like

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Speaker 1: I just put so much pressure on myself to know,

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Speaker 1: and if I don't know, then I'm just wrong or

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Speaker 1: dumb or so, you know, Like I get those kind

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Speaker 1: of messages in your head like that's the that's the

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Speaker 1: ticker tape that starts like playing for you. And what

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Speaker 1: I've noticed about a lot of men is either they

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Speaker 1: cover it better or they don't go to that. They

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Speaker 1: think if I don't know, they'll figure it out or

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Speaker 1: they'll find out. But they don't ever judge themselves. There's

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Speaker 1: little as shaming about it. We need didn't have to ask,

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Speaker 1: we need a dude didn't hear it? Ask with what

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Speaker 1: they think about a friend? Later a friend. But so, hey,

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Speaker 1: I want to go back to what you said that person.

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Speaker 1: I'm I don't. I don't know what I was about

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Speaker 1: to say. That man said to you. Oh yeah, but

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Speaker 1: that person said to you about you singing next to

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Speaker 1: Can you repeat what they said? No one wants to

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Speaker 1: hear you unless you're standing next to him. Now, did

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Speaker 1: you respond, I walked blocks in New York in the snow.

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Speaker 1: Did you believe it? Though? I think that's why I

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Speaker 1: walked blocks, because a part of me knew that was

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Speaker 1: totally bullshit, and the other part of me thought, what

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Speaker 1: if he's right, It's like all your worst fears being

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Speaker 1: said up. Who would I mean, who wants to hear

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Speaker 1: that you basically don't matter unless you're connected to someone else.

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Speaker 1: What a painful thing that is, and it's not true.

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Speaker 1: But I didn't. I didn't know how to respond. At

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Speaker 1: the time, I remember saying I don't agree, because I thought,

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Speaker 1: if I snap back, then that's not that's I don't

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Speaker 1: even need to entertain that. And if I snap back,

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Speaker 1: then I'm sort of, um, I'm reacting instead of responding,

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Speaker 1: and I wouldn't. I didn't even want to give that

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Speaker 1: thought any more power than it felt like. It felt like,

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Speaker 1: I felt like a punch to the stomach. And I

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Speaker 1: have to keep reminding myself that some people may think that,

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Speaker 1: and that's okay, but I'm not gonna waste any more

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Speaker 1: time thinking about that. What can I do now, and

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Speaker 1: who can I be now? And what kind of women

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Speaker 1: can I be? Where I can make my kids proud,

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Speaker 1: Where I can make my you know, I can show

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Speaker 1: my six and a half year old son, Miles, and

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Speaker 1: my my infant daughter. I can show them what does

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Speaker 1: it look like to be honest and real and show

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Speaker 1: up and make mistakes and own them and apologize and

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Speaker 1: try and try again, and stay creative and stay curious

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Speaker 1: and kind if I can, because otherwise I would just

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Speaker 1: spend the rest of my life trying to prove everybody wrong.

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Speaker 1: And who wants to do that? That's a lot of

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Speaker 1: wasted energy. I think, what did you learn? What are

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Speaker 1: the differences between standing on stage with someone else and

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Speaker 1: standing on stage by yourself? If it doesn't work, you

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Speaker 1: can only blame yourself. Yeah. But the other thing is

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Speaker 1: is that I I've had people ask me does it

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Speaker 1: feel so different now being a solo artist versus being

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Speaker 1: in a duo? And I say, no, not really, because

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Speaker 1: I still bring what I bring and I love to collaborate.

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Speaker 1: That's uh, that's one of my sweet spots. I've always

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Speaker 1: done that, whether I was a solo artist, collaborating with

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Speaker 1: a producer or collaborating with a band leader. Um, even now,

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Speaker 1: you know, when I was making this record, Kenneth Patton

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Speaker 1: Gail from a duo called the Milk Cart and Kids,

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Speaker 1: you know we were he knew the nature of and

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Speaker 1: the importance of collaborating, and that was one of the

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Speaker 1: reasons why I wanted to work with him, was because

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Speaker 1: he knew how important right parte is. And and even

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Speaker 1: on the road with my band, you know, it was

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Speaker 1: a three piece, you know, upright bass and guitar and

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Speaker 1: fiddle slash mando. And I thought to myself, I'm I

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Speaker 1: am a solo artist, but this is I don't feel

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Speaker 1: like I'm boss lady, you know, I feel like we're

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Speaker 1: all rowing the boat together and and I know how

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Speaker 1: to lead, and I know how to do that in

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Speaker 1: a way that's hopefully kind and respectful, because that's how

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Speaker 1: I want to be treated. But I'm still collaborating. I'm

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Speaker 1: still I'm still linking arms and going I couldn't do

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Speaker 1: this without you guys. I wouldn't want to, So you know,

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Speaker 1: it's I'm learning. That's one of my strengths is working

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Speaker 1: with other people. And I don't have to feel weak

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Speaker 1: or less because of that. So when you guys, because

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Speaker 1: obviously you had some great success and talking about the

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Speaker 1: Civil Civil Wars, yes, and you guys were pretty much

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Speaker 1: at the height of what seemed like your career and

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Speaker 1: you just announced that the tour was canceled. You were

420
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Speaker 1: breaking up it was done. Um, I was listening to

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Speaker 1: Bobby interview on the Bobby Cast. Bobby Burns. Yeah, I'm

422
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Speaker 1: just kidding that guy, But this is one of my

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Speaker 1: favorite things you said, was, Um, you were talking about

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Speaker 1: the bad press that you got after that, and you said,

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Speaker 1: when everything you've been working for falls apart and you're

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Speaker 1: still standing you just realize it's going to be okay.

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Speaker 1: So what was that like? Can you talk me through that?

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Speaker 1: Because I I imagine that if I'd been working so

429
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,960
Speaker 1: hard for something and it's finally happening. I mean, you

430
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 1: said you've been doing music since you were seventeen, and

431
00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,200
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden it's happening, and then it's

432
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,000
Speaker 1: just not and you're also being beat up for it

433
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:34,720
Speaker 1: and misunderstood and misunderstood. What does that without the ability

434
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:38,840
Speaker 1: to defend yourself? Frankly, Um, what does it feel like? Yeah?

435
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 1: Total annihil like ego annihilation, Okay, Um, it feels it

436
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 1: feels like when you walk into the grocery store and

437
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:52,280
Speaker 1: you see somebody that you know, four weeks ago would

438
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 1: have been walking right up to you and chatting you up, um,

439
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 1: now glares at you and walks right past you like

440
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:03,159
Speaker 1: they don't even know you. And and you go, you know,

441
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 1: this might be one of one of kind of a

442
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 1: version of my worst nightmare. But I'm still breathing, and

443
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 1: you really do get back to the basics of what

444
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 1: am I really grateful for. I'm grateful I get to

445
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 1: wake up in a bed in a house that is warm,

446
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,679
Speaker 1: and what am I grateful for that my worth and

447
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,480
Speaker 1: value is not determined on other people's opinions of me,

448
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 1: and and that I get to walk this out in

449
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 1: my own life and that's on me. And UM, I

450
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:36,359
Speaker 1: don't know. You realize you take you take what you

451
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 1: do seriously, but you don't take yourself too seriously and

452
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 1: you go Okay. At a certain point, this will pass

453
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 1: in um, and people will people will be less vitriolic

454
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:49,359
Speaker 1: about it. And I have compassion because if people don't

455
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 1: really know, then that all they have are their opinions

456
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 1: and their assumptions. And because it involves other people, I

457
00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:02,400
Speaker 1: don't feel like to publicly speak about that, uh would

458
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 1: do much good. Yeah, So I have to stay with

459
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 1: that and that is hard some days because um, it's

460
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 1: just hard. But I think to myself it's about moving

461
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:20,359
Speaker 1: forward and not and not looking back. And UM, you know,

462
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:23,440
Speaker 1: I learned a lot. There's things I would have done differently,

463
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 1: there's things I wouldn't have done differently, and that's all

464
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 1: life is. I think. Because I was gonna ask you

465
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:31,119
Speaker 1: if you would go back, would you do it all

466
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 1: all again? I don't know, I mean, you have It's like,

467
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 1: what's that movie sliding doors. You know, it's like it's like, well,

468
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 1: if I didn't do that, then this wouldn't have happened,

469
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,640
Speaker 1: and then this would have happened. So I can say

470
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,199
Speaker 1: there are there are moments that I go, man, I

471
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 1: wish I would have ah remembered my backbone more. But

472
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 1: ultimately it's made me. It's brought me right here sitting

473
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,159
Speaker 1: down with you. And would you have even realized that

474
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 1: if you hadn't gone through that so not. I think

475
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 1: suffering can be a great teacher until it's not necessary.

476
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 1: So I don't know, what do you think, like you

477
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 1: looking back at your life, if you if I asked

478
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 1: you the same question, what would you say? I love

479
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:18,719
Speaker 1: that you turn interviews as I Well, when you were

480
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 1: initially just talking, I was thinking there was a moment

481
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 1: in my life where I also realized, like that statement,

482
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 1: I'm a human being, not a human doing and um,

483
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 1: that was for me after a huge fall as well,

484
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 1: and just realizing like I can't really control things in

485
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 1: this life. I can only control how I act, how

486
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:42,440
Speaker 1: I treat people, what I show up and do every day, um,

487
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 1: and knowing that that's not my worth. So once I

488
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,199
Speaker 1: realized that, I think It's completely shifted the way that

489
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: I respond to anything in life. You know, I don't

490
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 1: think that I would go back and change it. Though

491
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 1: as painful as all of that stuff has been, I

492
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,159
Speaker 1: don't think that I could be this person because it

493
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,919
Speaker 1: was transformative of it sounds like the same, Yeah, say so,

494
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: it's worth it. So when you did finally get to

495
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 1: the place where you were like, I'm still standing, I'm

496
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 1: still okay, what was the next step? How did you

497
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 1: pick back up and do music again? Very slowly? Yeah,

498
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 1: very very slowly. Um, it's like falling off a horse,

499
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:19,639
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like you get close to

500
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 1: the animal again, You're like your whole body memories, Like

501
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 1: you know what's going to happen, and you confront your fears.

502
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:32,119
Speaker 1: You become friends with your fears. And the great thing

503
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 1: about Ready music is that I get to kind of

504
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:40,160
Speaker 1: exercise these demons. And I wrote eighty songs for Venus.

505
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 1: I wrote eighty songs and they actually made the album

506
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 1: only what was it? I met with a couple of

507
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 1: extra bonus things. I mean, it was like twelve or fourteen.

508
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 1: But um, but with front Porch, I was very slow

509
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:58,159
Speaker 1: and steady on that. I kept going. I kept just

510
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: the like just the steadiest you go was kind of model. Yeah,

511
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: and I was less. We moved. I moved to l

512
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: A after the Civil Wars ended. It was just like

513
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 1: I can't I just got I just gotta get out

514
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,639
Speaker 1: of town. So we had a place by the beach,

515
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 1: and um, I just took my son to the ocean

516
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:22,119
Speaker 1: and worked on music when I could, and you know,

517
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,479
Speaker 1: randomly worked on other projects with other people. And that

518
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,640
Speaker 1: was a good thing for me to do at the time. Um,

519
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:31,199
Speaker 1: And I was closer to my dad at that time

520
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 1: because he was in northern California really really sick, so

521
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 1: I could just like do work and then when Dad called,

522
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 1: I could pop up and just be with him while

523
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: he slowly kind of passed through the veil. But um, yeah,

524
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 1: I had moved out of town. But you bring wherever

525
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:51,440
Speaker 1: you go there you are okay yourself, right, No, But

526
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 1: like I think that was once my dad passed away,

527
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 1: I was like, why am I in l A. I

528
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 1: don't really want to be here, like it's great, and

529
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 1: it's just the It was just like schools aren't great.

530
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,199
Speaker 1: I was starting to look at that for miles, you know,

531
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 1: and community. I felt it was harder to grow out there.

532
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 1: Everyone just hustle lean all the time, the day and time.

533
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 1: So we got back to Nashville and I was like,

534
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: I'm home. And I think that really played a part

535
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 1: into Front Porch and um just really really beginning to

536
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,199
Speaker 1: settle back in and not settle for something, but to

537
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 1: settle back into um, just like you said, the human

538
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,959
Speaker 1: the being part versus the doing part. And and so

539
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 1: when I wrote this time around, I waited for the

540
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: people that I wanted to work with. It wasn't like, Okay,

541
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: who's available, how can I get this done? Like what

542
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 1: can I blah? I was like, no, I really want

543
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 1: to write with. And it was a really small tribe

544
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 1: of people. So I just waited until their calendars opened

545
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: up and mine worked in between, you know, um, dropping

546
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 1: Miles off at school and you know, the regular everyday

547
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: errands of being a mom, and sat down and wrote,

548
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 1: what a blessing? Don't you think a lot of times

549
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 1: for me? I know, everyone's like, oh, your job is

550
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 1: so cool, But in any creative job or thing that

551
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 1: you make a job, it ends up becoming a business.

552
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 1: You know, you're chasing the money or you're chasing a

553
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: schedule or there's all these other demands. So what a

554
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: cool experience to get to wait, Yeah, and how you

555
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: want to do it? Yeah, I mean I do feel

556
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 1: I do feel like that was a really big gift

557
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 1: and it helped me. It helped me just kind of

558
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: calmed down. It calmed my nerves, and I thought, you know,

559
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 1: if I wanted to make money, I probably wouldn't do music, right,

560
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: you know, But why do I do this? You know?

561
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 1: I do this because I love I love the nature

562
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 1: of making something that hopefully can connect with someone else

563
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 1: and that maybe someone else can feel a little less

564
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,479
Speaker 1: alone because of that, and we can all remember how

565
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 1: connected we are. And it's like, to me, music is

566
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 1: like cooking. It's it's it's fun to cook for yourself,

567
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 1: but it's way more fun to cook for other people

568
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 1: and and invite them in and share that, and if

569
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 1: they enjoy it and it nourishes them, then it's like

570
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: that just feels even better to me. So it was

571
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 1: it was sort of like, how do I want to cook?

572
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:11,479
Speaker 1: What kind of meal do I want to cook? This time? Um?

573
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 1: And it and it just slowly came together and I

574
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: was writing about what was going on in my life,

575
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 1: going through hard times, coming through realizing what really matters

576
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 1: in life, um, and what really doesn't and what does

577
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 1: it look like to you know, fight for yourself and

578
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 1: fight for love and celebrate celebrate the high times and

579
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 1: acknowledge the low times and and not be afraid to

580
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 1: show up for both. I was going to ask that

581
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 1: how much of what you write as reflective of what's

582
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 1: happening in your life? Oh so much, but so much

583
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: also in the sense of it can be what was

584
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 1: happening in my life when I was having a conversation

585
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 1: with one of my good friends, you know, like Trouble

586
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 1: with Wanting is a song that is you know, we

587
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 1: can all, we can all relate to the feeling the

588
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 1: ache of desire or the thought of like that what

589
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 1: if dot dot question mark kind of stuff. Um. But

590
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 1: that was from a conversation I had with one of

591
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: my really good friends about her on again, off again

592
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: relationship for ten years. And then like a song called

593
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: Hotel St. Cecilia on the record, it was just kind

594
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: of I saw this elderly woman sitting alone at a bar,

595
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: and she wasn't like she looked very lovely and put together.

596
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,479
Speaker 1: It wasn't like this sad state of affairs, you know.

597
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 1: But I just I just thought, I wonder what her

598
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 1: story is, and I've made one up and wrote that

599
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: and but a lot of it is directly autobiographical, like

600
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: a song called Preacher's Daughter of that every single line

601
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 1: is directly from my life because you grew up the

602
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 1: pastor's daughter. So um so it's all in there. It's

603
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 1: the the the the movie is in there, the movie

604
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: in my mind is in there, and the ordinary everyday

605
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 1: parts of my life are in there, like the front

606
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 1: porch you know that currently has a Howdy welcome Matt

607
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 1: on it, and you know a couple Razor scooters and

608
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 1: a bike that's all banged up, and you know, sidewalk

609
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: chalk on it. And that's that's also my real life too. Yeah.

610
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 1: I've always been so envious of songwriters because it seems

611
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 1: like such a therapeutic process. I'm like, you guys don't

612
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 1: have to pay for what we have to pay. Oh no, no,

613
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 1: I swear to you. I've bought several therapists, like like apartments,

614
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: um with the amount of therapy. Um, it is it

615
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: is good. It's good therapy. It is good therapy. And

616
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: then it also can be like, if you're not careful,

617
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: it can be like intense navel gazing me it can

618
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: just be like, this is what I've gone through, and

619
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: I can write ten songs about it. So it's like

620
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 1: I could get really dark. Yeah, so I think it's

621
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 1: I tell my son all the time, you've got to

622
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: become friends with your with your feelings, so otherwise they'll

623
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 1: come out sideways. So true. So it's like learning to

624
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: make friends with your feelings also allows allows us to

625
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 1: communicate more clearly and hopefully write better songs. Feelings are

626
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 1: just feelings, and they're important to acknowledge, and they're important

627
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 1: not to necessarily camp there for like decades at a time.

628
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 1: And life is hard. Like I'm in a season right

629
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 1: now that I never thought that I would have to

630
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 1: be in that I never wanted to be in um

631
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 1: and yet this is where I am. Yeah, and I've

632
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 1: got beautiful music in the midst of all of this,

633
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 1: and I have two amazing kids, and and I think

634
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:27,479
Speaker 1: I'm going to be okay. That just made me think

635
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 1: of my favorite song on the album All I Need.

636
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 1: I've been listening to that on repeats, And that also

637
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 1: reminds you that is kind of you coming full circle

638
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: because there's a lot of spirituality in that. You know,

639
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 1: such a beautiful, simple song, but it's not simple to downplay. No, no, no,

640
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm glad. It feels like statements are just

641
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 1: like oh yeah, yeah. Hopefully it reminds us of like

642
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: the elemental aspects of life exactly, you know, the basics

643
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 1: that we need to remember. Um, so we've talked about

644
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: your kids a little bit, So tell me you have

645
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 1: two kids. I do. I do. Old Miles will be

646
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: seven very soon. Okay, he's so awesome. Is that a

647
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: fun age? It is? Yeah, He's so full of life

648
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 1: and so full of curiosity, is so much energy. I

649
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 1: mean there's moments I'm like, I mean he wakes up

650
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 1: and it's just like ready to go. Yeah, he just

651
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 1: wakes up on a green light. That's just how it goes,

652
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 1: and you're like, I need some but he's just he

653
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,919
Speaker 1: just came out such a light. He's just never lost

654
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: that twinkle in his eye. And he's so deeply empathic

655
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,399
Speaker 1: as well, So he's got all the all that sort

656
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 1: of like classic you know, some might say boy energy.

657
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,360
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily know if it's engendered or not, doesn't

658
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 1: need to be. But he's so very much in his

659
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 1: body yeah, and yet also so very much in his heart.

660
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 1: And he's such a he's just such a round human being.

661
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,839
Speaker 1: And he teaches me a lot, and and then this

662
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:59,439
Speaker 1: wonderful bliss ball um Poppy, Poppy. I have a friend

663
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,760
Speaker 1: with a kid, really a little girl. Yeah, so cute.

664
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,439
Speaker 1: I love that name too. We named her. We named

665
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 1: her Poppy because she her her e t a. When

666
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 1: we found out we were pregnant was my late dad's birthday,

667
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: and I just thought that's a little full circle right there.

668
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,760
Speaker 1: And the grandkids all call them Poppy. What a cool story.

669
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 1: So she was born, she had her own birthday, which

670
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,320
Speaker 1: I like. She was born one day before my dad's birthday,

671
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 1: and I like to think he was cheering her on.

672
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,359
Speaker 1: So we named her Poppy. I love that. So how

673
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 1: do you balance this career because obviously you know road life, traveling,

674
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,319
Speaker 1: you're following your dreams, but you have these two kids

675
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 1: at home. What do you what is that? Like? I mean,

676
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: my dreams, my dreams get um folded into the deep

677
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 1: and absolute privilege of parenting. Like that, Everything changes, Everything

678
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 1: changes when you have a baby, what do you mean

679
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 1: tell me more? Uh, Well, you never realized how much

680
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: time you had on your hands until you had it.

681
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 1: That's what everyone told you. And then you have to

682
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,399
Speaker 1: and I'm so grateful for it. But every all your

683
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,760
Speaker 1: priorities shift, you know, it doesn't It's not just about

684
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 1: like what can I accomplish? What can I do now?

685
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 1: It's like, how do I do this in a way

686
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 1: where I still my kids know that I'm there for

687
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 1: them all the time. How do I do this in

688
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 1: a way that provides for them? And um, and I

689
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 1: I think I was. I became less precious, and I

690
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 1: mean that in a good way about the music that

691
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,319
Speaker 1: I make. It was more of like I just sat

692
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:40,240
Speaker 1: on a stool pregnant and sick, a f recording front porch.

693
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:42,959
Speaker 1: I was early pregnant, and I was and I don't

694
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 1: have like that unicorns and rainbows pregnancies, Like I'm like,

695
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:51,240
Speaker 1: what is that? Like? You know, like um, the Duchess

696
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 1: of you know, like Kate, you know, she had like

697
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 1: she was sick like twenty four hours for six or

698
00:36:57,680 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 1: seven months, like all the way through. I was that way.

699
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 1: And so but I sat down in a studio and

700
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 1: I was like, this is time to create because it

701
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 1: I knew it was going to keep me really really

702
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: um honest and how I made what I made and

703
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:14,279
Speaker 1: it did. I think you can hear that on the

704
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 1: on front porch. You can hear that. It's there's no striving.

705
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 1: I'm literally just sitting down singing and um. And you know,

706
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 1: parenting in general makes you go, Okay, what really needs

707
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 1: to happen versus what do I just want to happen?

708
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: And somehow I think it all works together in a

709
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 1: and its attention. I don't when people say how do

710
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 1: you balance it? And like, ain't no such thing like

711
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 1: in this regard, Um, I'm constantly moving, I'm constantly altering.

712
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,360
Speaker 1: I'm constantly shifting, like how do I take care of

713
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 1: myself so that I can take really good care to paids?

714
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 1: And and I don't do I don't do that. I

715
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 1: don't I probably don't do that well a lot. But

716
00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:00,359
Speaker 1: at least I'm able to say it and I thought it, yeah,

717
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 1: and and and say, this isn't about doing this perfectly again,

718
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 1: getting back to that whole thing, Um, It's about how

719
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 1: can I do this with bravery and kindness and and

720
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:16,879
Speaker 1: show up for the people that I love. Um, I'll

721
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 1: let you know if I figure it out, or or

722
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 1: you let me know, and then you can write a

723
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 1: book and make a ba jillion dollars and then Oprah

724
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: will interview you, and then I will like buy taking

725
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 1: to your seminars and you know it'll be it'll be

726
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:31,879
Speaker 1: a whole thing, if you be a whole Burne Brown thing.

727
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm speaking my language. Who I really

728
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,399
Speaker 1: want to be friends with? Same her and Oprah would

729
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 1: be I mean that people talk about who they would

730
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:43,439
Speaker 1: want to meet, and like, those are my people. Yeah,

731
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:45,840
Speaker 1: I would like to be adopted by Michelle Obama and

732
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 1: Oprah and Burne Brown. And if there's so many names,

733
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,479
Speaker 1: who else? Um, I love Glennon Doyle, I mean all

734
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:57,760
Speaker 1: of those women. Anybody that's been on Oprah Super Souls

735
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: Sunday basically good. Oh my word. This guy named Richard

736
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 1: Roor was just um just talking with Oprah, and I

737
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: love Richard ror has been a part of kind of

738
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 1: what changed a bit of my sort of walk in

739
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 1: regards to like what I believe it was. I think

740
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 1: we go through this. I don't know anybody who grew

741
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 1: up in a conservative household the temptation might be to

742
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,360
Speaker 1: just completely deconstruct and just leave it in a thousand pieces.

743
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,320
Speaker 1: And I was like that for a long time. But um,

744
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,320
Speaker 1: this guy named Richard Ror, He's a Franciscan monk who

745
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 1: um has a center in New Mexico called the c

746
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 1: a C. The Center for Action and Contemplation, and he

747
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,839
Speaker 1: wrote this book called Everything Belongs and it was like

748
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 1: my first step back into like, ah, wait, maybe I

749
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:46,320
Speaker 1: don't need to throw it all out and uh it

750
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:48,799
Speaker 1: was a pretty cool, pretty cool path. And then he

751
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 1: got interviewed by Oprah. I'm like, see, see what you're doing.

752
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:58,280
Speaker 1: You're doing something right. You know. That is like literal

753
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:03,799
Speaker 1: goals totally. Um. That is interesting though about spirituality because

754
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 1: I feel the same way. It's like you, Yeah, I

755
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:09,799
Speaker 1: grew up in a really Christian conservative home and I

756
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 1: don't necessarily practice the same beliefs. But I don't think

757
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 1: it's it never leaves you. It might for me. It's

758
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 1: just expanded a lot and life has just I don't know,

759
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,399
Speaker 1: I just see everything with a bigger perspective now than

760
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 1: I used to. Yeah, I just think there's so many walls.

761
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 1: Why are there so many walls? Like if if we

762
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 1: could take those walls down. I think we really get

763
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:35,360
Speaker 1: back to the basics, which I think most teachers in

764
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 1: the world. That's what everyone's trying to remind us of,

765
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 1: you know, but to each their own front porches out

766
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 1: a may what's your favorite What was your favorite part

767
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:50,279
Speaker 1: of recording that album? Man, I just never had so

768
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 1: much fun recording in the studio. And that's saying a lot, because,

769
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 1: like I mentioned, I was really really dogsick. But and

770
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:01,320
Speaker 1: I've been in studios for many, many years, but working

771
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 1: with Kenneth as a co producer, UM, it was really special.

772
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 1: And then the way in which we went about it

773
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:13,280
Speaker 1: just felt really really good. I mean, Kenneth was like, Okay,

774
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 1: I said, I want to record this record UM in

775
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 1: the most unadulterated way possible, meaning like I don't want overdubs.

776
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: So there's no overdubs on the record. It's literally just

777
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 1: like front to back performances. And I've always said, if

778
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 1: you can't do it in one take, you probably shouldn't

779
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,840
Speaker 1: try and do it live. Wow. Yeah, that's a great

780
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 1: that's just for me. That's just how I feel about me.

781
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:36,840
Speaker 1: And and so the Civil Wars was that way and

782
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:41,319
Speaker 1: UM and then also and then also recording this was

783
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:44,760
Speaker 1: that way too. So there was just so much ease

784
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:49,840
Speaker 1: involved and a lot of laughter. And Kenneth, you know,

785
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: really listened when I when I said, this is what

786
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 1: I want to do and how and the players. I

787
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:56,759
Speaker 1: didn't know who the players were going to be, but

788
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,799
Speaker 1: Kenneth heard me when I said, everybody that we bring in,

789
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 1: I just need them to be empathic listeners because I

790
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:04,760
Speaker 1: don't want them to come in and just like slap

791
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 1: their stuff on it, like this is how I play,

792
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 1: this is what I do. Everybody that came in, we

793
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 1: really set the tone of we want this to be

794
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 1: like we're cooking together, you know. Then and and let's

795
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 1: add what we can but less is more so how

796
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,400
Speaker 1: do we do this? And plain simply is actually really

797
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 1: quite hard to do. Um, But the amazing talent on

798
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 1: the record, you know, he speaks for itself. You know,

799
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 1: got Russ Paul and Scott mulbile Hill and Caitlin Canty

800
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 1: on back, some background vocals and um, you know John

801
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 1: Melander on fiddle and um and Anthony Di Costa on guitar.

802
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 1: Are these all Nashville people? Not all, but they are now?

803
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 1: But everyone you know, came from a different part of

804
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 1: the country and live here now. But it was to

805
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 1: Kenneth's credit. Kenneth was saying, I really think you and

806
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 1: Anthony the guitar player, you guys should just rehearse for

807
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:02,400
Speaker 1: two like two months. Yeah, and we did. He Anthony

808
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 1: just came to my house and we rehearsed for two

809
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 1: months straight on green velvet couches in my living room

810
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:10,439
Speaker 1: and Kenneth would sit there and we'd play it through

811
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 1: and we'd work out harmonies and so that when we

812
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:15,240
Speaker 1: got in the studio, it was just like press record

813
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 1: and let's go. Yeah, I read was it five days? Yeah?

814
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:22,280
Speaker 1: Fifteen songs and five days. It was just so easy.

815
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 1: It was so it was crazy, but it was crazy

816
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 1: easy with that, and I had never experienced it to

817
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 1: that degree. It was. I just felt like there was

818
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,360
Speaker 1: some really special magic by way of the hard work

819
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 1: leading up to it. Yeah, you know, yeah, it was.

820
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 1: It really was just so joyful in there. It just

821
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 1: felt really the ease was there. It felt like sitting

822
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 1: on a front porch with friends and um. And that

823
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 1: was the whole impetus for starting the record. You know,

824
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 1: when I sat down with songwriters I said, you know

825
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 1: what's really coming to me is if I can't play

826
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 1: it on a front porch, it's probably not for me.

827
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:00,200
Speaker 1: And and I remember Liz Rose who helped me right

828
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 1: and Emily Shackleton helped me right front porch. She was like, well,

829
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 1: have you written a song with that title yet? And

830
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:07,279
Speaker 1: I was like no. She's like, well, don't you think

831
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 1: we should hear that? Yes, it was a snake it

832
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 1: would bit ye did um. So the album is out,

833
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 1: you guys should totally check it out. I was gonna say,

834
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 1: it's funny that you keep comparing the cooking stuffing because

835
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 1: I've been cooking in my house listening to the Yes. Yes,

836
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 1: it's the perfect like background music for home to me

837
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 1: because it's so calming. I don't know, I just have

838
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:38,480
Speaker 1: I've felt the last three days I've been listening and

839
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 1: it's it's definitely a very calming, contemplative album, Like I

840
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:47,359
Speaker 1: hear something different every time the lyrics, Yeah, which has

841
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:52,880
Speaker 1: been really exciting. Okay, what have your greatest career moments

842
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 1: been that you would say? I know that's like the

843
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,279
Speaker 1: hardest thing, but I'm curious because I feel like you've

844
00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:02,919
Speaker 1: got You've covered so many bassis, give me like top three.

845
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 1: Meeting Paul McCartney and saying he was a fan. He

846
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 1: said he was a face. I wanted to die. I died.

847
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: That's It's it's downhill from there, you know what I'm saying,

848
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 1: Like sh um, Yeah, that that was good. Getting matching

849
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:25,359
Speaker 1: tattoos with Adele. Can you tell that story? Yeah? We

850
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 1: we went the Civil Wars. She discovered the music of

851
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 1: the Civil Wars and asked us to come on the

852
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 1: road with her. Oh god, we became fast friends on

853
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 1: the road, and I got to witness what it looks

854
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 1: like to go from being somewhat well known to like

855
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 1: the sky rocket like stratospheric fame, and just to watch

856
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:55,840
Speaker 1: her stay the same and and to just bear witness

857
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:58,359
Speaker 1: to the human aspect of all of that too. And

858
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:01,839
Speaker 1: uh we but we were I was not even close

859
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 1: to having any kids at that point, so we were

860
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 1: I was ps, do not try and keep up drinking

861
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 1: with Adele. Yeah, it was. But we we joke now

862
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:16,719
Speaker 1: that like we don't. We were like we're moms now,

863
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 1: we can't even we can't do that. You're like, yeah,

864
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 1: I know. I'm like, oh that one really hit me.

865
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be up at six and that one's gonna

866
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 1: hurt the half glass of wine that they had. But um,

867
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 1: but I think getting to go on the road with her,

868
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:33,400
Speaker 1: it was really just a special thing and getting to

869
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 1: know her, and um, what's the tattoo. The tattoo is

870
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:41,719
Speaker 1: three dots. It's an ellipsus, which just means to be continued,

871
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 1: and and it's on our wrists. And um. We finished

872
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 1: the tour that leg of the tour. We finished that

873
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:51,920
Speaker 1: that leg of the tour, and she um had arranged

874
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 1: for a tattoo artist on the bus, so we went

875
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:57,000
Speaker 1: on the bus after our. At the end of tour,

876
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 1: um she had ironically given me a bottle of in

877
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:03,799
Speaker 1: which I had gotten terribly, terribly sick from drinking. UM,

878
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 1: so that was a little giggle and and we got

879
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 1: we it was are both of our first tattoos. And

880
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:15,400
Speaker 1: now we kind of we think that it's I don't know.

881
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 1: I haven't so I haven't spoken to her in a

882
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 1: little bit. But but I looked down and I think

883
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 1: to myself, that's right. Everything is to be continued. You

884
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 1: keep you keep an open mind about what's about to happen.

885
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:26,759
Speaker 1: You know, you never know how life is going to move,

886
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:29,760
Speaker 1: but you just keep remembering there's always more, There's always

887
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 1: more to be continued, like our friendship, and and then

888
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 1: we both wound up having like getting pregnant around the

889
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:40,680
Speaker 1: same time, just totally randomly. So we've joked at times

890
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:43,239
Speaker 1: that it's, you know, it's like us two and our

891
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 1: son's like connected you guys. But and then now I

892
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 1: don't know if I need out a fourth stop. But

893
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 1: then that wouldn't work out for Poppy, um wouldn't be

894
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 1: an ellipsus. So that one and then Top three. I

895
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 1: think it's hard. It's like I go back and forth

896
00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 1: between like really small moments of stepping out on stage

897
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 1: and and just that moment that happens of feeling this

898
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 1: deep cycle circle of gratitude that I feel like, I

899
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:12,719
Speaker 1: feel like it's like, no, thank you for being here,

900
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 1: and then it's like this moment of like feeling that

901
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 1: thank you and it's like no, thank you, and it's

902
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:19,280
Speaker 1: like thank you. That to me, that's a really small

903
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 1: but but really impacting thing for me every time that

904
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 1: I say you feel that every show I do. And

905
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:28,279
Speaker 1: some days I'm really tired or some days with roat

906
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 1: hurts or you're pregnant. Yeah, some days I'm pregnant and

907
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:34,120
Speaker 1: some days, my you know, I'm so exhausted. I don't

908
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 1: know how I'm going to hit that high note for

909
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 1: that one song and um, but it's like sitting down

910
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 1: in a living room, you know, and just being like,

911
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you're here, and and if and if

912
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:47,799
Speaker 1: you can keep that conversation going and just be who

913
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 1: you are, it's not putting on a show. I mean,

914
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 1: I do like putting on a show, but but I

915
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:55,359
Speaker 1: think the shows I love going to the most of

916
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 1: the shows where I feel like people really bring themselves.

917
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 1: They bring the drama and they bring themselves and and

918
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 1: like that to me is a highlight to the career

919
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 1: that hopefully I can keep that feeling of gratitude going always.

920
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:12,680
Speaker 1: I mean, like Dolly Parton still has so much gratitude

921
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 1: for her career, like she's a queen to me forever

922
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:18,480
Speaker 1: in a day. And I think of Emmy Lou Harris,

923
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 1: who was never afraid to branch out and try new

924
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 1: things and it is still making music decades decades later.

925
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 1: Like those those aren't even personal highlights for me. But

926
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:29,960
Speaker 1: I look at that and I go, no, that's a

927
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:34,280
Speaker 1: highlight I want to aspire to. What about you, Oh God,

928
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 1: greatest career moments. I mean, I think there's been people

929
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:40,759
Speaker 1: I've gotten to meets or just even be around, like Emmy,

930
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:43,759
Speaker 1: Lou Harris and all of those things that have been

931
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:47,200
Speaker 1: great for me. But I think lately the thing that

932
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:49,880
Speaker 1: I would say that that's kind of hitting me the

933
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:53,399
Speaker 1: most is with gratitude. Is just even though I don't

934
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:54,759
Speaker 1: know what I'm doing with a lot of the stuff

935
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 1: I'm doing, the opportunities keep presenting themselves, you know what

936
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:01,439
Speaker 1: I'm saying, Where it's just like one foot in front

937
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:04,799
Speaker 1: of the other and something is opening up, and I

938
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:07,879
Speaker 1: just know I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be. This

939
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:10,440
Speaker 1: is Kelly Henderson and you've been listening to the Velvet's

940
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:13,880
Speaker 1: Edge podcast. I truly believe that every one of us

941
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 1: has a little velvet and a little edge, so it's

942
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:19,319
Speaker 1: so important to remember that to be strong, you must

943
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:22,279
Speaker 1: be soft too. Thank you so much for sharing in

944
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:26,280
Speaker 1: those stories with me. You can follow Velvet's Edge on Instagram, Facebook,

945
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 1: and Twitter, as well as velvet's Edge dot com. If

946
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 1: you have it yet, go to Apple podcast and subscribe,

947
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:35,799
Speaker 1: rate and review this podcast. Join me every Wednesday for

948
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:40,440
Speaker 1: more conversations on lifestyle, beauty, and relationships. My thanks to

949
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 1: Joy Williams. Her album front Port is out everywhere now.

950
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:45,960
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.