WEBVTT - Nigel Farage Thinks Britain Has Had Too Many Unifiers 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:07.760 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:12.799 There are fundamentally two types of people in politics. Those 0:00:12.920 --> 0:00:15.360 want to be something, those want to do something. And 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:18.360 I've always been a person that's wanted to do something. 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:27.480 Nigel Farage Brexit campaigner, disruptor and now UK political leader 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:30.040 who could be prime minister. 0:00:32.159 --> 0:00:36.240 You know what, the rank, the title, the position doesn't 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:39.000 interest me at all, doesn't interest me in the least. 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:42.080 I couldn't care less about it. What interests me is 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:42.920 what you can do with it. 0:00:44.720 --> 0:00:49.440 From Bloomberg Weekend. This is the Michelle Hussein Show. I'm 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:58.040 Michelle Hussein. Welcome back. Remember the moment when the UK 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:01.640 voted to leave the EU nearly ten years ago now, 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:05.080 and one of the figures right at the forefront of 0:01:05.160 --> 0:01:06.600 that was Nigel Farage. 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:10.360 The sun has risen on an independent United. 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:14.679 Kingdom, mister Brexit. Indeed, to many people, you might have 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:18.640 thought that that was a career peak, an end of 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:21.840 the road. They'd achieved what they set out to do. 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:26.279 For him, though, it was the start of something new, 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:31.440 something bigger, it now seems, because he and his party 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:34.600 Reform UK have been having an extraordinary time in the 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:38.480 opinion polls in Britain. These are polls of voting intention, 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:43.040 and for months now Reform has enjoyed a sustained pole 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:47.640 lead over the two parties which have dominated British governments 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:51.360 for the last century, Labor and the Conservatives. Now an 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:54.480 election isn't due in the UK for another four years, 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:58.360 but if this kind of pole lead was to be maintained, 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:01.720 Nigel Farage a very good chance of being the next 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:05.360 UK Prime minister. Faras is someone who has been very 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:08.919 good at spotting political undercurrents. He did that with Brexit, 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:12.360 He's done that in the US in being close to 0:02:12.440 --> 0:02:17.240 Donald Trump for a long time, understanding in many countries. 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:19.560 I think what's bubbling under the surface and what other 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:24.640 people might not see. So he is worth paying attention to. 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:28.720 He's someone also who is very recognizable. He's a big 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:31.920 persona people stop him in the street, want to have 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:34.960 their picture taken with him, call him by his first name. 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:39.519 He's regularly pictured having a pint in the pub. Now 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:42.040 I knew this was going to be a tough conversation 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:46.359 in many ways. He's combative. He's someone who you have 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:48.800 to fact check to the best of your ability, and 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:51.560 I think you'll get a sense of the tone really 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:54.520 right from the start of this. But really what I 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:57.760 wanted to do in this conversation is understand what makes 0:02:57.840 --> 0:03:02.040 him tick and reveal really what kind of prime minister 0:03:02.480 --> 0:03:06.760 he might be. You'll hear us talk about his immigration policies, 0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:10.120 about the accusation that he is soft on national security, 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:14.800 what he reads, whether he would govern for the whole country, 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:18.359 and because he has used the words make Britain great again, 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:22.480 ask him what period he looks to in Britain's past. 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:29.800 We started, though, in the present. Welcome Rachel Farrett. How 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:31.519 how are you all right? 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:33.000 Yes, but I mean life is busy. 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:35.320 Well, I want to start with a sense of the moment, 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:37.760 actually because I'm conscious that you are in the midst 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:40.360 of a remarkable few months where your party has been 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:44.440 leading in the opinion polls in a sustained way, which 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:46.600 is why if there was an election today, and we 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:48.280 don't really have that kind of system in the UK, 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:50.200 but if there was an election today, you'd be you 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:51.960 look likely to become a prime minister. 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:54.920 Election tomorrow we'd win easily. But the trouble is it's 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:57.840 a marathon to the next election. We've hit the thirteen 0:03:57.840 --> 0:04:00.360 mile mark and we're a mile ahead. So it's a 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:02.560 good thing we've done what we've done. But there's a 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:03.680 long wedd again well. 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:07.560 But also on you personally, the idea of being prime minister. 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:12.240 Are you properly adjusted to this idea because most people 0:04:12.240 --> 0:04:14.720 see you this is what you're known for, campaigner disrupt 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:17.800 to someone who brings change from the outside, actually leading 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:19.480 for the whole country is a very different thing. 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:22.160 Yeah, that's the point. We now need change on the inside. 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:25.320 We've not had enough change. We are actupying as a country. 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:31.440 We're declining economically, we're declining societally, we're declining culturally. People 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:35.320 are leaving. We're in real, real trouble. So we now 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:39.039 need a disruptor, not from the outside the change perceptions, 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:41.760 but from the inside to actually change things. But you've 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:42.520 been ready for it. 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:44.680 Yes, you've only been an MP for a year, so. 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:47.839 I've been in politics for thirteen years. I was in 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:50.839 the European Parliament for over two decades. I led a 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:53.680 group in the European Parliament for over ten years. I've 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:57.159 got a lot more experience than Keir Starmer or many 0:04:57.160 --> 0:04:59.600 of the other prime ministers we've had in the recent. 0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:03.039 Political experience, but not governing experience. You've never been part 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:05.960 of that. You did once say that you did want 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:08.599 to say that you couldn't imagine having a seat around 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:11.200 the cabinet table, that it was not something that attracted you. 0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:17.239 Do you know what, the rank, the title, the position 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:20.799 doesn't interest me at all, doesn't interest me in the least. 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:23.880 I couldn't care less about it. What interests me is 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:26.400 what you can do with it. And there are fundamentally 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:30.120 two types of people in politics. Those want to be something, 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:33.120 those want to do something. And I've always been a 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:35.520 person that's wanted to do something. In the past. What 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:39.880 I've done is helped change public opinion, help shift national debate, 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:42.599 and now moving that on to the next logical stage. 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:45.279 Yeah, but I still wonder about the kind of work 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:48.279 that is involved in delivering for a country as the 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:51.200 Prime minister. It involves sitting there with the red boxes, 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:52.760 going through the official government papers. 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:53.920 What do you think I've been doing for the last 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:55.080 twenty five years building but. 0:05:56.760 --> 0:05:58.680 Through civil papers every day. 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:02.719 It's different only in human being in this country. Who 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:06.560 has built political movements on a table like this with 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:09.640 a telephone, a piece of paper and a pencil. I 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:12.320 can build things, I can do things. My track record 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:12.720 says that. 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:14.200 Okay, so you're ready for it. 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:16.120 It is the job that you want to do, yes, 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:20.440 I mean, look, it's clearly an enormous job. And the 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:24.240 scale of the problems that we face, the institutional barriers 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:26.080 that will get put before us. You know, I do 0:06:26.240 --> 0:06:28.760 understand all of that. I'll tell you what if we 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:32.679 don't do this, then by twenty thirty five I shuddered 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:36.200 to think what this country, genuinely, what this country will 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:37.560 be like. So we have to do this? 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:40.800 Would you govern for all? Because you're not known as 0:06:40.800 --> 0:06:43.360 someone who brings people together. You're known as someone who 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:46.920 chooses their issues, campaigns very hard on them, who's often 0:06:46.960 --> 0:06:51.440 predicted and made the political weather. But you're not a unifier. 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:53.240 Doesn't a prime minister have to be there? 0:06:53.279 --> 0:06:54.920 Well, I think we've had too many unifiers. And look 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:58.200 where consensus politics has got us. Look at the message 0:06:58.240 --> 0:06:58.520 got it? 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:00.040 So you would govern as a device fig. 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:03.440 You'd govern as a majority government. You'd govern on a 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:07.840 radical manifesto that says the country needs fundamental reform. And 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:10.360 of course some people won't like it, but that's the 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:10.880 way it is. 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:14.160 Well, we'll talk about the ways that you would reform. 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:16.119 It is the name of your party, but it's also 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:17.600 what you want to do, and we'll talk about that 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:19.360 in a moment. But I want to go back in 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:22.240 time first of all, because you're recording with us here 0:07:22.600 --> 0:07:24.600 in our studios in the heart of the city of London, 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:27.000 a place you know well, absolutely, you used to be 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:31.200 a commodities trader, a metals trader. How formative was that 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:32.600 experience to who you are today? 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:34.520 Yeah, My father was a stop breaker for over half 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:36.480 a century. My grandfather was a stop breaker for over 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:39.200 half a century. So a lot of our family had worked, 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:41.560 in fact, on both sides in the city. I was 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:44.320 here in the eighties. I was here in that transformative 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:47.120 period where, let's be frank, what was a bit of 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:50.320 an old boys club through Big Bang became an international 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:51.920 global center deregulation. 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:53.920 Yeah, a city and it's heyday if you. 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:58.360 Like, opening up, innovative, that's just time. It was that 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:01.920 just time. Yeah, and you were actually oh absolutely, I 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:03.840 mean back then I was. But I mean, you know, 0:08:04.200 --> 0:08:06.920 bear in mind, we're talking forty years ago. There were 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:10.160 a different set of economic problems. We didn't have the 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:12.480 social problems in that just time that we've got. Now, 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:15.480 that's one aspect of life that's worse. So I was 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:18.760 here when yeah, I mean kind of by the middle 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:22.560 late eighties. I mean it was the most exciting, incredible 0:08:22.880 --> 0:08:23.880 and fun place to be. 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:26.360 We did have social problems though, a lot of people 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:28.720 got left us. A lot of people got left behind 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:31.360 in that period and some of them are supporting your 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:34.200 party today. There were mining community socualization. 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:37.800 There were mining communities who had a very bleak time. They, 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:40.120 by the way, had an even bleaker time in John 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:44.480 Major's years when we unnecessarily claoes pits. But what I 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:46.920 mean is we were all British. There was a much 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:51.040 bigger sense of togetherness despite the economic division than there 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:52.040 is in the country today. 0:08:52.520 --> 0:08:54.160 And this has been a theme of what you've been saying. 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:58.080 Essentially you look on migration as the source of all 0:08:58.280 --> 0:08:59.199 the country's ills. 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:01.439 Well, that's a ridiculos to say, but you just. 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:04.160 Pointed that we were more British in the period. 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:07.200 We have all sorts of problems. We have massive economic 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:11.400 problems now falling GDP per capita being perhaps top of 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:14.079 the list, or they're very ready talked about in Westminster. 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:17.160 Yes there were divisions then you're absolutely right, but the 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:20.600 social problems that we faced today are worst. Look I 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:23.200 think about the city was you know, I can remember 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:28.079 when the phone rang that it occasionally was Paris, occasionally 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:31.680 was Frankfurt, but much more likely to with Singapore or Santiago. 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:35.760 This was a global trading center and I couldn't understand the. 0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:38.320 City of London is still a global trading center. 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:41.280 Far less than it was. And I couldn't understand the 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:44.000 political obsession with our next door neighbors that the little 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:47.160 backyard market called Europe. Oh yes, it's the big market, 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:50.319 blah blah blah, but it's fifteen percent of global GDP. 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:53.240 So really, when I saw the Single European Act coming 0:09:53.240 --> 0:09:56.200 in eighty six, what are we doing? And then I 0:09:56.240 --> 0:09:58.760 saw the British establishment preparing for us to join the EUA. 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:02.680 We joined the exchange rate mechanism and. 0:10:02.559 --> 0:10:04.480 Then had to crash out of it two years later, 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:07.319 which I pegging to the deutsch market, which I predicted. 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:10.200 Yep, I predicted it. The very night we joined. I 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:12.760 was in a bar just over there saying this will 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:14.800 never ever work. And this is what really got me 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:17.800 in the politics I couldn't understand what I saw in 0:10:17.800 --> 0:10:20.160 my day to day life here. I want I saw 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:22.160 government doing. Were two very different things. 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:25.959 So it was there's a direct link then, between Brexit 0:10:26.200 --> 0:10:29.000 and your work in the city here in the nineteen 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:31.520 eighties and the nineteen nineties. You came here at the 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:34.040 age of eighteen, actually straight out of school. When you 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:37.000 look at Brexit today and what has happened in the 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:40.440 last nine years and you say that it's a poorer 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:43.800 country today than it was, do you think it was 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:45.800 worth having the referendum in twenty sixteen? 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:48.880 Do I think freedom is worth it? Yes? Absolutely? Do 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:51.840 I think self governance is governance is worth it? Yes, 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:54.240 of course I do. Do I think the ability to 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:57.240 control your borders is worth having? Yes? I do. Now 0:10:57.679 --> 0:10:58.839 have we exercised it? 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:01.760 No, That's why asked the question. Was it worth having 0:11:01.760 --> 0:11:04.800 it in twenty sixteen the vote? Given what we know now, 0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:08.679 Sterling has never recovered its value. Business investment, which was 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:12.000 rising has been stalled since that. No. 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:14.280 I mean, look, you know, even as Kis Starmer himself says, 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:18.320 the deep seated economic problems within the country pre date Brexit, 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:21.199 even pre date the pandemic, and our response to it, 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:25.120 you know, our productivity problems being perhaps just one very 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:29.760 very good example. I am angry that a conservative government 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:33.120 with a whopping great majority didn't take advantage of it. 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:34.720 And you think you could have done better if you 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:36.160 were prime ministers. 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:39.280 Better, Mars better and I hate to see what's happening 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:39.760 in the city. 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:43.560 So then if you were prime minister, and I can 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:45.320 ask you this question because the way the polls are 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:47.520 looking right now, so today, if you became prime minister, 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:50.640 would you rip up the treaty, the agreement that Kirs 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:52.520 Starmer made with the EU earlier this year. 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:55.360 Well, the whole treaty is up for renegotiation anyway. It's 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:57.680 a very poor treaty. We can do a lot better 0:11:57.720 --> 0:11:59.920 than that. We'll have to play hard ball. If you 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:01.400 play hard or you have to mean it. 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:04.960 That's the article I've heard just before from whom well 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:08.360 I've heard this before from okay, from conservatives, not from 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:11.600 people in your party, but from people who believed in Brexit. 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:18.679 They never they never, but they never believed that. They Relatedly, 0:12:19.040 --> 0:12:23.400 they belatedly accepted Brexit because if they hadn't, they would 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:24.839 have faced political. 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:27.360 So if Brexit has never been done properly, you, as 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:31.079 Prime minister, would reshape our relationship with the EU. 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:33.880 What do you mean if Brexit hadn't happened The reason 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:34.440 I'm here. 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:36.160 No, I mean if you were Prime minister, what would 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:38.960 you do with the current alignment that we have with 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:40.480 the EU on many areas well. 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:43.240 Look, we've been weak as hell. We've given in. We've 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:46.400 given in, we've given in, We've expected favors in return, 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:50.040 we haven't got any. It needs a tough renegotiation. And ultimately, 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:52.840 even though we've got huge economic problems, they've got some 0:12:52.840 --> 0:12:56.040 pretty serious problems too. In fact, the French haven't even bigger, 0:12:56.240 --> 0:13:00.640 not just not just economic but constitutional crisis as well. Yeah, 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:03.000 giving away our fish for the next twelve years, things 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:07.520 like that completely outrageous, total betrayal of what people voted for. 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:12.439 But the focus, the focus, and yes, trade with Europe 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:15.400 is important, of course it is, but the real focus 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:19.040 has to be what's happening internally within the UK economy. 0:13:19.320 --> 0:13:23.600 So you would rip up the ki Starmer agreement with you, 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:25.959 I think you're saying it needs it needs a rethink, Okay. 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:29.120 But all is done has done is make concessions in return. 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:32.319 That means you would be taking an economic risk right now. 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:35.200 And that's and you have been known all your life 0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:36.800 for taking risks right It's in your book. 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:38.960 Everything in life's about risks, and life. 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:41.280 Is about yourself. On being a gambler, can I read these? 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:44.760 I love a gamble, I love stacking up the odds, 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:47.080 and it's only been through taking enormous risks that the 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:49.240 Party and I have got to where we are today. 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:50.839 Is that the kind of prime minister you would be? 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:52.240 A risk taking prime minister? 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:54.000 We need far more risk taking and by the way, 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:56.280 much more broad in the Prime minister. We need to 0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:58.920 encourage risk taking in the economy. 0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:01.640 You take a risk with the relation with the nearest neighbor, 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:05.200 the big geography that puts this big market on. You 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:06.920 take a risk with that in the interest of it 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:08.400 bad relationship. 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:10.920 You have to take risks to reshape it. 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:13.440 So how would you reshape it? You'd end alignment. 0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:16.640 Is that what you're saying, alignments catastrophic, So you'd end 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:18.760 it catastrophic, moronic. 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:21.360 You'd end alignment with the EA's. 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:23.480 Sending us is keeping us firmly hooked back in the 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:26.280 twentieth century, not in the twenty first it makes no 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:28.520 sense at all from any angle. 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:30.280 Is that a yes to the question I've asked, you'd 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:31.480 end alignment. 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:33.200 With the E one hundred plus. 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:35.720 Okay, So this is the point. So you're still a 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:38.040 risk taker. You weren't in your years as a trader 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:40.840 in the city, and you're still going to govern in 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:43.680 that way if you elected Prime minister. I know you 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:47.440 had two really traumatic experiences as a very young man. 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:49.720 You were hit by a car and you ended up 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:52.640 spending two months in hospital, and you were then diagnosed 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:55.960 with testicular when you're in your in your early twenties. 0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:59.240 There's another and I know you said that this is 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:03.200 part of why you decided you needed to do things 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:05.960 with your life. But there's a different way that that 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:09.480 story could have gone, which is that you conserve your 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:13.080 energy and you prioritize your family and you think of 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:18.440 all that's close to you. Instead, you had two failed marriages, and. 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:21.360 It's called living. You went, it's called living. 0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:22.520 And you campaigned around the country. 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:24.280 Look, I could be a boring so and SOA like 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:28.880 most people in politics. I've lived. I've had some huge successes, 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:33.480 I've had some massive failures. I'm sixty one, I've got 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:36.440 a vast experience of life. I've seen the good times, 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:40.320 I've seen the bad times. I've seen success, i've seen failure. 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:44.400 I think that makes me better qualified to be a 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:47.880 leader than those that have lived steady, what I might 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:49.120 describe as boring lives. 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:50.800 So what have been your big failures? 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:54.400 Well, I've made mistakes personally. Obviously I've had successes too, 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:57.360 but I've made mistakes financially. And look, I've lived the 0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:00.240 big I've lived the big Dipper of life. But I've 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:03.120 in the end been very lucky. I'm still here, I'm 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:05.440 still alive despite a couple of goes at not being 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:09.520 I think that's given me a couple of things. Number one, 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:13.600 a pretty rounded life, and number two, I'm not actually 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:19.560 frightened of anything, and that I think is very very 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:23.280 valuable asset given what I may well be facing in 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:24.160 two a three years time. 0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:29.240 So let's talk about your political instincts. Then, can you 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:31.840 take those headphones because I want to play you something 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:35.600 that you said at SEAPAC, the big conservative political conference 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:37.960 earlier on this year. You've been close to the American 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:39.520 right for a long time, so you go to these 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:41.720 conferences and this is what you said in February twenty 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:42.320 twenty five. 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:49.080 Suddenly, post November the fifth, America is optimistic, it's upbeat. 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:53.880 It's the beginning of a golden age in America. In fact, 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:57.360 in many ways, that's what we're fighting for. A very 0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:00.120 similar agenda to the one that you've just bought for. 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:04.800 I'm the one that you have just succeeded with. You're 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:07.440 going to make America great again, and we, in turn 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:09.679 will make Britain great again. 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:10.680 Thank you. 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:15.879 Well, well, hang on, I've got wait, listen, wait for 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:19.600 my question, which is that you use these words make 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:21.439 Britain great again. And I know that you have a 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:23.760 sense of history, and I know the past is important 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:25.400 to you. Sense of fun. 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:29.000 Say make Britain great again to an American audience, I've 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:31.399 just elected a president of make America great again? Is 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:31.840 quite fun. 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:34.240 So you didn't mean it, of course I meant it. 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:36.879 But that's what I understand what you mean by it, 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:38.520 because you have got a sense of history. I know 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:42.720 your grandparents about the past. Your grandfather had been wounded 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:46.400 in the First World War. What story did they tell 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:49.680 you about Britain's past? What is it that you think 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:51.160 of when you think of when Britain. 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:56.760 We had a stable society. We had belief things that 0:17:56.840 --> 0:18:00.560 bound us, perhaps religion being one of them. And by 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:02.800 the way, government can't force people to believe, but there 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:04.680 was a shared sense of religion. 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:06.440 Are you a man of faith community? 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:09.400 Yes, I mean I have to say, struggling a bit. 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:10.560 Do you go to church? 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:13.520 Well, of course, I'm an Anglican. It's been a catastrophe 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:14.440 for twenty five years. 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:18.800 What the Church of englis So you believe, you believe, 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:21.280 but there's no church that you feel like at. 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:23.760 Well, if I was a more regular churchgoer, I probably 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:26.600 would have defected to the Catholics. Probably would have done, 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:29.560 haven't I haven't. I've thought about it a couple of times. No, 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:32.280 I think a sense of community, a sense of family. 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:36.959 I mean, frankly, you know the values around the meaning 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:41.320 of family, community, country. Those things were much stronger in 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:42.240 years that have gone by. 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:44.880 Which is which is the decade you're looking at? That's 0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:47.880 what I'm curious about when you say the words when 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:50.240 Britain was great? What is in your mind? Which is 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:50.800 a decade? 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:55.480 Britain was great? Imperially, Britain was great, industrially, Britain was 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:59.800 great in terms of innovation. Britain was great in terms 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:03.200 actually in many ways, I think of taking some very 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:05.879 good things the large parts of the world. Britain was 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:09.560 great in leaving behind some amazing legacies Australia. 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:12.720 I'm wondering about what period when you when you look 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:15.320 to the past, are you thinking about the nineteen eighties 0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:17.480 and the period you're really or are you thinking about 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:19.280 the First World War. Britain is a great power. 0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:20.920 I think really what we did since six and eighty eight, 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:22.920 I think we were actually fortunate to have our servil. 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:25.119 But we're not going to go back to the seventeen. 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:28.119 Years I've just given you as. 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:31.840 A political leader, when you think of when you want 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:35.320 Britain to go back to because you to make Britain again, 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:36.199 what are you looking to. 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:39.320 I don't want Britain to go back anywhere. I want 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:41.840 Britain to go forwards. And that's really the point, and 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:44.479 it's one of the reasons why you know, I've been 0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:46.440 very critical of the Government of the Bank of England, 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:51.359 very critical much of our economic policy. I think we 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:56.240 are stuck in a rut. I think we're stuck with 0:19:56.359 --> 0:20:00.919 an old, out of touch globalist mindset about so many things. No, no, no, no. 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:03.720 You can respect your traditions, you can respect your past, 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:06.320 you can have a sense and a feeling of what 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:08.919 history is. I'm not going back anywhere I want to go. 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:10.560 I want us to be in the twenty first century. 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:14.240 We're not there. We're literally but here we are sitting. 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:16.480 I mean, I can see Saint Paul's as I'm talking 0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:18.240 to you in the middle of the city of London. 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:21.879 We have a revolution going on, an economic, a money 0:20:21.960 --> 0:20:27.360 revolution going on with digital assets, cryptocurrency. It's real. It's 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:34.520 growing very very quickly. And what's happening here nothing literally nothing. 0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:35.239 Untested ideas in government, aren't they. I know you were 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:37.080 talking the other day about wanting to have a national 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:38.679 cryptocurrency reserve. 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:41.000 I'm really sorry, we don't know what that looks like. No, 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:43.720 because we're years and years behind the rest of the world. 0:20:43.880 --> 0:20:47.280 Go to Miami, Go to Miami, Fly to Miami tonight, 0:20:47.720 --> 0:20:50.120 and you tomorrow morning can go out and buy everything 0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:54.280 from a Starbucks coffee to a Ferrari with a card 0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:57.040 that you've loaded up from an a am in the 0:20:57.080 --> 0:21:02.200 stry with bitcoin, ethereum or other currencies, and the world 0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:03.920 is changing and we're not changing. 0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:06.240 So if you think the bank, and if you think. 0:21:06.080 --> 0:21:09.680 About it, there's one more point think about it. Actually, 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:13.439 we have been great innovators, you know, whether it's the 0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:16.560 industrial revolution, whether it's the nuclear energy industry, which we 0:21:16.640 --> 0:21:20.280 led the world in just a few decades ago. We're very, 0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:25.040 very inventive. We're very creative. We're naturally a very entrepreneurial country. 0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:28.760 I just believe we've lost a sense of all of that. 0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:30.760 So the Bank of England, if you think they're so 0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:34.520 out of step with where their focus should be in 0:21:34.560 --> 0:21:37.879 your view, would you revoke their independence as Prime Minister? 0:21:38.040 --> 0:21:40.439 Well, I think the bigg I mean the bigger mistake 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:43.680 was taking away banking regulation from an organization that have 0:21:43.760 --> 0:21:46.639 been doing it since sixteen ninety four, gave it to 0:21:46.640 --> 0:21:49.160 a bunch of tick box bureaucrats down in Canary Wharf. 0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:50.439 Do you mean the financial conduct? 0:21:50.600 --> 0:21:50.879 Yeah? 0:21:51.119 --> 0:21:52.280 That so would you disband that? 0:21:52.480 --> 0:21:55.800 They are useless? They are arterly useless. 0:21:56.000 --> 0:21:57.920 We need a complete Would you do away with them? 0:21:57.920 --> 0:21:59.720 We did a radical rethink of what they are, what 0:21:59.720 --> 0:22:02.720 they're for, who they serve, what their purpose is. 0:22:02.720 --> 0:22:04.440 Isn't the truth though? You? I mean you don't. Really, 0:22:04.480 --> 0:22:06.359 it's not a question of who does the regulation. I 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:10.119 think you instinctively don't like regulation or regular don't you 0:22:10.160 --> 0:22:12.720 see it as a hindrance, and other people might see 0:22:12.720 --> 0:22:15.720 it as the things that protect us from wrongdoing. Actually 0:22:15.720 --> 0:22:16.520 your mistakes. 0:22:16.600 --> 0:22:22.200 Actually you're wrong. You're wrong, because my argument with crypto 0:22:22.280 --> 0:22:26.159 with digital assets is we need a regulated market. Again, 0:22:26.400 --> 0:22:28.560 you go back there in the medieval times, it was 0:22:28.600 --> 0:22:32.240 all about having a basic framework of rules that consumers 0:22:32.280 --> 0:22:35.160 and market users can trust. So I'm not against regulation. 0:22:35.400 --> 0:22:39.600 I'm not a complete laisse fair merchant, but you have 0:22:39.680 --> 0:22:40.880 to get that balance right. 0:22:40.920 --> 0:22:43.040 But I think you are saying, as Prime Minister, you 0:22:43.080 --> 0:22:45.760 are signaling that you'd be prepared to do away with 0:22:45.800 --> 0:22:49.480 the Financial Conduct Authority, you would give those powers back 0:22:49.480 --> 0:22:50.400 to the Bank of England. 0:22:51.400 --> 0:22:54.040 I think we need a complete radical rethink. Yes on 0:22:54.200 --> 0:22:56.600 many of these things, and the FCA has been a 0:22:56.640 --> 0:22:57.360 total failure. 0:22:57.600 --> 0:23:00.000 Would you sack Andrew Bailey's Bank of England? 0:23:00.080 --> 0:23:02.439 I was debanked, you know, I was debanked. I was 0:23:02.680 --> 0:23:08.080 rejected by ten other banks. I was literally being frozen 0:23:08.080 --> 0:23:10.200 out of the financial system to the point I might 0:23:10.240 --> 0:23:12.080 have had to leave the country, which indeed is what 0:23:12.119 --> 0:23:13.399 they wanted and. 0:23:13.480 --> 0:23:16.080 That became a big issue. And well, luckily you got 0:23:16.119 --> 0:23:16.800 your accounts back. 0:23:16.880 --> 0:23:19.360 Well luckily, I'm big enough and ugly enough to fight 0:23:19.440 --> 0:23:21.640 my own corner. But there are thousands of people out 0:23:21.680 --> 0:23:26.000 there who've been debanked because of excessive rules on anti 0:23:26.040 --> 0:23:29.320 money laundering directives or whatever else it may be, who've 0:23:29.320 --> 0:23:30.639 got no voice for themselves. 0:23:30.920 --> 0:23:32.879 And what about the governor of the Bank of England, 0:23:33.040 --> 0:23:35.960 Andrew big Well, he's a nice enough bloke, but would 0:23:35.960 --> 0:23:37.000 he keep his job if you were. 0:23:37.640 --> 0:23:40.520 Said, a good run, we might find someone new. Really, 0:23:41.119 --> 0:23:41.640 he's had a. 0:23:41.560 --> 0:23:46.280 Good run, so you are signaling you'd be I'm just 0:23:46.320 --> 0:23:49.040 saying this is shade of President Trump at the federal 0:23:49.119 --> 0:23:49.520 ry if. 0:23:49.440 --> 0:23:52.320 Andrew Bailey wants to get with the twenty first century. 0:23:52.880 --> 0:23:55.720 And by the way, there's one encouraging thing, because I 0:23:55.760 --> 0:23:58.399 went to see him last month. He'd just put a 0:23:58.440 --> 0:24:01.600 limit on the number of state coins any individual can hold. 0:24:02.640 --> 0:24:05.760 I said, Andrew, this, this is ridiculous, this is dinosaur like. 0:24:05.880 --> 0:24:08.359 Within a week he changed it, So maybe he was listening. 0:24:08.600 --> 0:24:12.280 But the Bank of England, the British government, the regulator, 0:24:12.320 --> 0:24:14.960 whatever shape that takes, they've all got to understand that 0:24:15.000 --> 0:24:19.120 the world is changing, has changed very, very rapidly. 0:24:19.600 --> 0:24:22.840 Okay, So the world has changed, not just the financial world, 0:24:23.040 --> 0:24:25.119 the world more broadly. And if you were prime minister, 0:24:25.200 --> 0:24:29.360 you'd have to have opinions and take advice and formulate 0:24:29.400 --> 0:24:31.720 policy on a whole host of areas which you're not 0:24:32.160 --> 0:24:36.720 known for talking about, such as social care, how you'd 0:24:36.720 --> 0:24:41.480 feel vacancies in the social care sector and national security. 0:24:41.800 --> 0:24:45.320 And there are people in the political establishment, labor figures, 0:24:45.359 --> 0:24:48.719 conservative figures, including Boris Johnson, who think that you and 0:24:48.760 --> 0:24:50.040 your party are soft on Russia. 0:24:50.080 --> 0:24:52.399 Oh poor Boris. I feel sorry for I'm really I 0:24:52.400 --> 0:24:53.960 guess if you failed that much you have to laugh 0:24:54.000 --> 0:24:56.760 it out at somebody. Look, I mean, but I mean 0:24:56.800 --> 0:24:59.399 this is of course politics and narratives, isn't it. You know, 0:24:59.800 --> 0:25:05.200 just because fourteen thirteen years ago I said in an interview, 0:25:05.240 --> 0:25:08.840 I thought Putin was a very effective political operator, but 0:25:08.920 --> 0:25:11.880 not a nice human being. Suddenly you're a Putin supporter. 0:25:12.040 --> 0:25:13.840 But enough, the year after I said that, the Queen 0:25:13.840 --> 0:25:16.199 met him. Whether she was seen to be a collaborator, 0:25:16.200 --> 0:25:16.679 I don't know. 0:25:16.800 --> 0:25:19.560 I think it's all the accusations come from the fact 0:25:19.640 --> 0:25:23.080 that you've said things in the past like no, you think, Nate, 0:25:23.800 --> 0:25:27.639 what I'm going to say. You've suggested that NATO provoked 0:25:27.800 --> 0:25:29.879 Putin into invading Ukraine. 0:25:29.640 --> 0:25:33.119 The endless eastward expansion of NATO and the European Union, 0:25:33.280 --> 0:25:35.679 and Kissinger warned about this years ago. We shouldn't have 0:25:35.680 --> 0:25:37.400 done it, but that's in the past. We did it. 0:25:37.760 --> 0:25:42.119 Putin's invaded. I was really hoping that Trump could bring 0:25:42.200 --> 0:25:45.320 Putin to heal and that some kind of compromise could 0:25:45.320 --> 0:25:48.520 be struck, as it's just been recently struck with Gaza 0:25:48.880 --> 0:25:53.800 and Israel. Clearly that is not going to happen. Obviously, 0:25:53.840 --> 0:25:55.360 Putin is a very bad dude. 0:25:55.600 --> 0:25:58.320 Simple Why hasn't President Trump put more pressure on him? 0:25:58.480 --> 0:26:01.040 Oh, he's putting huge pressure on, his pressure on India. 0:26:01.240 --> 0:26:04.600 He's putting pressure on and I think himself, I think 0:26:04.640 --> 0:26:07.479 Trump feels that puns met with all of him. And 0:26:07.520 --> 0:26:10.000 clearly Putin is not a rational man. He wants to 0:26:10.000 --> 0:26:11.960 come to a logical deal. So the idea that i'mselfd 0:26:12.000 --> 0:26:12.960 on this is just nonsense. 0:26:13.320 --> 0:26:16.440 Well, what put fire under the accusations was very recently 0:26:16.480 --> 0:26:19.600 when the former leader of your party in Wales, Nathan Gill, 0:26:20.000 --> 0:26:23.719 pleaded guilty to eight counts of bribery, taking money from 0:26:23.800 --> 0:26:27.440 someone described as a pawn of the Russian secret services. 0:26:27.520 --> 0:26:29.920 Appalling, appalling, And he will go to prison for a 0:26:29.960 --> 0:26:31.320 long time, at least I hope he does. 0:26:31.440 --> 0:26:34.040 He was the leader of your past three three weeks. 0:26:34.320 --> 0:26:38.000 But hang on, he's been on. He's been involved with KI, 0:26:38.960 --> 0:26:42.160 he was involved in Brexit, the Brexit party, your former 0:26:42.200 --> 0:26:45.320 party with. He's been at your years. 0:26:45.359 --> 0:26:48.640 I've done it for twenty five years. He was unbelievably 0:26:48.840 --> 0:26:52.800 you perhaps don't know this a bishop in the Mormon Church, 0:26:54.000 --> 0:26:58.280 I mean, god fearing to a level I've almost never met. 0:26:58.680 --> 0:27:01.320 I mean, so uncorrupted. I thought he wouldn't even drink coffee, 0:27:01.920 --> 0:27:05.200 and there he was taking money to ask questions. Appaul, 0:27:05.440 --> 0:27:08.520 is it just one bad without any shadow of it down? 0:27:08.640 --> 0:27:11.080 You can assure voters that there is no one else 0:27:11.240 --> 0:27:13.040 like Nathan Gillen reforms ranks. 0:27:13.400 --> 0:27:17.000 If there were, if I even suspected it, they wouldn't 0:27:17.000 --> 0:27:17.720 be let through the door. 0:27:18.480 --> 0:27:20.680 And you're sure that no one else has taken money 0:27:20.680 --> 0:27:21.280 from I'm. 0:27:21.160 --> 0:27:24.160 Sure that my mother's not the mass murderer. There's nothing 0:27:24.359 --> 0:27:25.960 sure as that, you know, I mean, how can you 0:27:26.000 --> 0:27:27.840 be sure of anything in life? Well, you know, the 0:27:27.920 --> 0:27:30.119 question itself is you didn't know. The question itself is 0:27:30.119 --> 0:27:32.120 a stupid question. You know that, and I know that 0:27:32.400 --> 0:27:34.720 I believe one hundred percent with all my heart was 0:27:34.760 --> 0:27:35.320 nobody else. 0:27:35.760 --> 0:27:38.920 Can I just quickly then understand your instincts on Russia 0:27:39.080 --> 0:27:43.000 a bit more fully with a few scenarios. So if 0:27:43.000 --> 0:27:48.320 you were Prime Minister and NATO jets entered Russian jets 0:27:48.440 --> 0:27:51.240 entered NATO airspace, where do you stand on that? 0:27:51.320 --> 0:27:52.840 Do you think they should be to shoot them down? 0:27:52.880 --> 0:27:56.159 No questions? Whatever? That does? How much that inflames tensions? 0:27:56.640 --> 0:27:57.960 Russian needs to be taught to lessons and. 0:27:58.000 --> 0:28:01.200 Love trying heart. I'm the only person in the world 0:28:01.560 --> 0:28:04.679 I think that stood up in the European Parliament in 0:28:04.760 --> 0:28:08.040 twenty fourteen, and do you know what I said? There 0:28:08.119 --> 0:28:11.720 will be a war in Ukraine. It's coming. I'm the 0:28:11.760 --> 0:28:14.760 only person that got it right. I might have made 0:28:14.880 --> 0:28:18.359 one comment once thirteen years ago that said I admired 0:28:18.440 --> 0:28:20.960 him as a political operator, but not as a human being, 0:28:21.119 --> 0:28:22.919 and I'd never live in Russia. Period. 0:28:23.000 --> 0:28:25.800 Okay, frozen assets, Russian frozen acids should be used to 0:28:26.400 --> 0:28:27.440 help go on as. 0:28:27.440 --> 0:28:29.400 Long as you like. I've made the position perfectly clear. 0:28:29.440 --> 0:28:30.399 No, what's the answer to that. 0:28:30.400 --> 0:28:32.840 They would be they're in Belgium. 0:28:32.400 --> 0:28:34.000 So they should be they should be used. 0:28:34.040 --> 0:28:36.600 You better ask the Belgian government, but clearly if they're 0:28:36.800 --> 0:28:38.640 there through illegal means, they should see. 0:28:38.680 --> 0:28:41.000 Your instincts is as British Prime Minister do. 0:28:41.120 --> 0:28:43.400 My instinct is I think Putin's a really bad blow. 0:28:43.520 --> 0:28:44.800 And you can and you can sit me here for 0:28:44.840 --> 0:28:46.320 an hour, you're going to get nowhere. 0:28:46.360 --> 0:28:49.240 You put British troops on the ground in most of 0:28:49.280 --> 0:28:50.600 all Ukraine after its cease. 0:28:50.400 --> 0:28:53.640 Fire, I'd be very cautious about doing that might put 0:28:53.640 --> 0:28:56.240 a un force. When I put the British Army badge 0:28:56.320 --> 0:29:00.080 that badged as a British Army, be deeply deeply. 0:28:59.760 --> 0:29:02.720 Thought because you'd be worried about them being a target 0:29:02.720 --> 0:29:03.200 for the Russian. 0:29:03.440 --> 0:29:06.640 Be deeply thoughtful about doing that, and it wouldn't make everything. 0:29:06.480 --> 0:29:09.360 You see exactly. That kind of thing is what gives 0:29:10.040 --> 0:29:14.920 hearing something caveat is what gives Russia courage. 0:29:15.040 --> 0:29:17.960 You are quite right, I'm not a warmonger. Rather like 0:29:18.000 --> 0:29:20.960 President Trump, I'm not a warmonger. Those that went before 0:29:20.960 --> 0:29:24.880 have been persistent warmongers. I'm not. I happen to think 0:29:25.400 --> 0:29:29.760 that what the UN did in career was remarkable, and 0:29:29.880 --> 0:29:33.360 still over seventy years on, has held and South Korea 0:29:33.360 --> 0:29:36.520 has become just, I mean, the most incredible country, which 0:29:36.520 --> 0:29:38.080 by the way, does things far better than we do 0:29:38.480 --> 0:29:41.400 in terms of building nuclear energy and much else. That 0:29:41.440 --> 0:29:42.760 would be the right way to go forward. 0:30:01.920 --> 0:30:05.400 So let's talk about areas then, where your agenda. As 0:30:05.440 --> 0:30:07.480 you said in that clip, we heard a moment ago 0:30:07.520 --> 0:30:10.640 where your agenda is similar to the Trump administrations, for example, 0:30:10.640 --> 0:30:14.760 on migration. Both your party and prisident Trump's Republicans feel 0:30:14.800 --> 0:30:16.240 very well what he's done, strongly about that. 0:30:16.280 --> 0:30:17.160 What he's done is amazing. 0:30:17.240 --> 0:30:21.040 So would you want ICE style raids taking place here 0:30:21.080 --> 0:30:24.440 to deport the six hundred thousand people in five years 0:30:24.520 --> 0:30:24.959 you wanted to? 0:30:25.160 --> 0:30:26.640 I think it's really I think what I think. Let's 0:30:26.640 --> 0:30:29.240 see this is again. You know, I was with Tom Homan, 0:30:29.760 --> 0:30:33.040 who was his Borders are a few weeks ago to 0:30:33.080 --> 0:30:34.960 try and find out what's really going on in America. 0:30:35.120 --> 0:30:39.520 It's really interesting. Border crossings are down ninety seven percent 0:30:40.080 --> 0:30:42.960 since Trump came to power. But the interesting thing is 0:30:42.960 --> 0:30:47.920 about deportations. So they have a thousand ICE squads out 0:30:47.920 --> 0:30:52.960 around America knocking on doors saying you're here illegally and 0:30:53.000 --> 0:30:57.920 you've got two choices. Number One, you can go. We'll 0:30:57.920 --> 0:31:01.560 fund your return. We'll give you a few dollars. We'll 0:31:01.600 --> 0:31:04.640 say to you that you can legally if you want, 0:31:05.040 --> 0:31:08.000 apply for skills VIASA in the years to come to 0:31:08.040 --> 0:31:10.200 come back to America, and if we think you're going 0:31:10.200 --> 0:31:13.000 to be a productive member of the economy and of society, 0:31:13.440 --> 0:31:14.080 will let you in. 0:31:14.280 --> 0:31:16.720 Is that what you want? The ice raids are done 0:31:16.760 --> 0:31:20.760 by masked armed men who jump out of vehicles grab people. 0:31:21.000 --> 0:31:23.800 That's your media narrative. I've just told you what's happening 0:31:24.280 --> 0:31:25.280 and what is really. 0:31:25.280 --> 0:31:27.120 If you have masks, don't they and guns and they 0:31:27.160 --> 0:31:28.360 do go into work ploce as. 0:31:28.400 --> 0:31:30.880 I mean, I would hope actually homes if they didn't 0:31:30.920 --> 0:31:31.840 have guns, they'll be mad. 0:31:32.320 --> 0:31:34.400 Would you want that here? That's really because this interview 0:31:34.400 --> 0:31:36.080 is about what you would do as prime minister. 0:31:36.320 --> 0:31:38.680 Do you know how many people have voluntarily left America 0:31:38.840 --> 0:31:43.680 in eight months? One point six million. It is truly remarkable. 0:31:43.960 --> 0:31:49.160 One point six million people have peacefully with incentives not 0:31:49.240 --> 0:31:52.840 just to leave, but potential. I want to understand the potential. 0:31:52.880 --> 0:31:54.360 What lessons you're taking for the UK. 0:31:54.400 --> 0:31:56.520 For what I'm learning is if you do things well 0:31:57.040 --> 0:31:59.440 and do things properly, it can be highly effective. 0:31:59.480 --> 0:32:02.640 So is that to yes to ice style raids in 0:32:02.680 --> 0:32:03.160 the UK? 0:32:03.640 --> 0:32:07.400 It's we're not America. We'll do it our way, not 0:32:07.440 --> 0:32:07.880 the America. 0:32:07.960 --> 0:32:09.680 So what is that? Does our way involve the army? 0:32:10.480 --> 0:32:13.920 Our way will involve border Force doing the job that 0:32:13.960 --> 0:32:15.480 they would so desperately like to do. 0:32:16.120 --> 0:32:18.800 That's the job they do. Now, how would it be? 0:32:19.200 --> 0:32:20.840 Would you use the army now? At the moment border 0:32:20.880 --> 0:32:22.640 Force are a taxi service and they hate it, so 0:32:23.520 --> 0:32:28.400 you use the army. They absolutely hate doing what they're doing, 0:32:28.440 --> 0:32:30.360 which is why say many people resign. 0:32:31.720 --> 0:32:35.719 Sad saving people essentially in the channel and bringing them 0:32:35.720 --> 0:32:38.080 to short You may see that what you mean by 0:32:38.120 --> 0:32:39.280 the teche No, that's what in me. I think that's 0:32:39.280 --> 0:32:39.880 what you're referring to. 0:32:41.080 --> 0:32:44.240 French Navy. Bring them across, French Navy, bring them acrass. 0:32:44.400 --> 0:32:46.960 It's got them all the way. Border Force picked them up, 0:32:47.120 --> 0:32:49.400 bring them in. They tuck their passports in the sea, 0:32:49.640 --> 0:32:51.959 they chuck their phones in the sea, and we're supposed 0:32:51.960 --> 0:32:53.800 to just put up with it. 0:32:54.080 --> 0:32:56.800 Really important is to understand how because the numbers you've 0:32:56.840 --> 0:32:59.440 said you would deport are really significant six hundred thousand 0:32:59.480 --> 0:33:01.920 over five year, which is why I'm interested in the methods. 0:33:02.240 --> 0:33:04.680 Look, I think the truth is that most people who 0:33:04.720 --> 0:33:07.280 were caught, who were in Britain illegally, if we do 0:33:07.360 --> 0:33:10.280 it nicely and do it properly, will accept they have 0:33:10.360 --> 0:33:10.560 to go. 0:33:10.880 --> 0:33:14.120 It's about nine thousand a year currently, and to meet 0:33:14.120 --> 0:33:17.320 your target you'd be increasing that by ten times. Do 0:33:17.360 --> 0:33:18.040 you think you can? 0:33:18.480 --> 0:33:23.400 I think we can. Of course theory reality, being in government, 0:33:23.520 --> 0:33:25.760 I get all of that. I understand all of that. 0:33:26.440 --> 0:33:29.680 Is it doable, yes, But there is a very important 0:33:29.680 --> 0:33:32.960 message here. Very I mean, in most countries in the world, 0:33:33.920 --> 0:33:37.520 if you enter illegally, you are chucked in prison. Literally, 0:33:37.920 --> 0:33:40.720 in a majority of countries in the world, illegal entry 0:33:40.800 --> 0:33:41.920 means immedia in prison. 0:33:42.480 --> 0:33:44.680 So is that what you do? People would arrive and 0:33:44.760 --> 0:33:46.920 they would be put in prison immediately detain. 0:33:47.240 --> 0:33:49.200 Well, that's what I didn't say, and you said. 0:33:49.080 --> 0:33:51.280 It, that's right, said what do you say? 0:33:51.240 --> 0:33:53.840 Said, that's fine, I'm not playing games. I'm not playing games. 0:33:54.000 --> 0:33:55.440 People would be detained. 0:33:55.040 --> 0:33:57.479 And deported dead simple in prison. 0:33:58.240 --> 0:34:00.000 There are plenty of X military bases we can keep. 0:34:00.280 --> 0:34:03.120 But the point, Look, you know, it's very interesting. Australia 0:34:03.160 --> 0:34:06.040 had all this in twenty twelve. They stopped it within 0:34:06.040 --> 0:34:08.640 a fortnight. Within a fortnight, no one came illegally you 0:34:08.680 --> 0:34:11.160 know why they were taied back to Indonesia. It can 0:34:11.200 --> 0:34:14.200 be done. It's about political will, it's about being tough 0:34:14.600 --> 0:34:16.920 for a short period of time. It can be done. 0:34:17.120 --> 0:34:17.719 It can be done. 0:34:17.920 --> 0:34:20.960 You've got a big pledge also to cut significant amounts 0:34:21.120 --> 0:34:24.200 of government waste. I know you're rethinking your economic plans, 0:34:24.239 --> 0:34:26.480 but there is a figure in your principles, not the 0:34:26.480 --> 0:34:28.360 broad print. Well, what about the amounts that it says 0:34:28.360 --> 0:34:32.400 in this from last year that you would cut waste 0:34:32.440 --> 0:34:36.360 by the tune government waste to save fifty billion pounds 0:34:36.360 --> 0:34:38.399 a year. Is that still yeah? That was about That's 0:34:38.400 --> 0:34:39.520 still the plan that was about. 0:34:39.600 --> 0:34:41.400 Yeah, actually we'd probably go further than that. 0:34:41.400 --> 0:34:42.839 I mean, you get more than more. 0:34:43.800 --> 0:34:46.000 Malay and Argentina's shown that you can do it, but 0:34:46.480 --> 0:34:48.160 you have to work out doing it what the cost 0:34:48.160 --> 0:34:48.520 of that is. 0:34:48.560 --> 0:34:50.919 You must discover that he couldn't cut nearly as much 0:34:51.080 --> 0:34:54.719 as he hoped to. Initially he said to had to 0:34:54.760 --> 0:34:55.840 have that, and then it went. 0:34:55.760 --> 0:34:57.839 To be fair. Malay has to be fair, Malay has 0:34:57.920 --> 0:35:00.120 but look, we're test bedding this in the in the 0:35:00.160 --> 0:35:02.719 local councils that we won last May. Well, we've cut 0:35:02.719 --> 0:35:05.120 about half a billion so far. You know, it's a 0:35:05.280 --> 0:35:06.840 very good start in six months. 0:35:07.040 --> 0:35:10.080 What happens if you were elected to government and you're 0:35:10.120 --> 0:35:12.759 Prime minister and you find out that you can't find 0:35:12.760 --> 0:35:16.560 the savings you want, you're in the process of rethinking 0:35:16.600 --> 0:35:21.400 your economic polity kinds of tax cutting plans which are 0:35:21.440 --> 0:35:24.759 now having to be rethought. Is that because they were unworkable. 0:35:24.920 --> 0:35:30.040 Net zero thirty billion saved, cutbacks and civil service tens 0:35:30.040 --> 0:35:33.279 of billions saved. But of course the big one, the 0:35:33.280 --> 0:35:35.120 big one, and the thing that I've got to think 0:35:35.160 --> 0:35:42.560 out far more fully is the whole explosion of disability payments. 0:35:42.680 --> 0:35:44.960 And you are in midster having seriously what I want 0:35:45.000 --> 0:35:48.640 to ask you is that you people said about your 0:35:48.719 --> 0:35:51.319 plans to spend and to tax cuts that they were 0:35:51.400 --> 0:35:54.319 unworkable and they were fantasy economics, and the fact that 0:35:54.360 --> 0:35:56.520 you're having to rethink them suggested, well. 0:35:56.440 --> 0:35:58.480 I'm not rethinking they were right. I suspect what we 0:35:58.520 --> 0:35:59.960 come back will be a lot more out of it 0:36:00.760 --> 0:36:02.239 than what you saw there. 0:36:02.160 --> 0:36:03.879 More radical in which way more tax. 0:36:04.440 --> 0:36:05.759 Well, as I said to you before I came and 0:36:05.800 --> 0:36:07.680 did this, I'm going to be laying out some economic 0:36:07.719 --> 0:36:10.520 stuff between now and the budget. In terms of speeches. 0:36:10.800 --> 0:36:12.480 What is for certain? I tell it what is for 0:36:12.520 --> 0:36:15.560 certain with the economy. And we touched on this right 0:36:15.600 --> 0:36:19.840 at the beginning. We touched on this place in the eighties, 0:36:19.880 --> 0:36:22.480 but we could go more broadly across the country. In 0:36:22.520 --> 0:36:28.080 the eighties there was an attitudinal change towards work, towards 0:36:28.160 --> 0:36:32.239 having a go, towards risk, which I'm pro. I'm very 0:36:32.280 --> 0:36:35.719 pro risk. I'm very pro individuals taking risk. I don't 0:36:35.719 --> 0:36:38.439 believe we should protect people from themselves. We should allow 0:36:38.480 --> 0:36:40.960 them to go out and have a go. We need 0:36:41.000 --> 0:36:47.480 an attitudinal change towards success, towards money, towards business, towards 0:36:47.520 --> 0:36:53.320 tax and incentives. And this is stuff that you can't 0:36:53.320 --> 0:36:54.920 necessarily write in a manifesto. 0:36:55.160 --> 0:36:56.320 Well you're going to have to do though, Well, no 0:36:56.400 --> 0:36:56.840 you can't. 0:36:57.120 --> 0:37:01.680 You can't attitudeal stuff. You can't. You cannot, right, you cannot. 0:37:01.680 --> 0:37:04.880 It's called a contract anymore. 0:37:04.920 --> 0:37:06.520 You've been at the BBC all your life. I don't 0:37:06.520 --> 0:37:09.480 think you understand what I'm saying. I'm talking about attitudinal 0:37:09.600 --> 0:37:13.000 change within society. You can't put any of that in manifestos. 0:37:13.280 --> 0:37:16.360 It's about a buzz, it's about a vibe, it's about 0:37:16.360 --> 0:37:19.400 how a country feels. And and you know one of 0:37:19.400 --> 0:37:21.160 the reasons, and you know you played that tape to 0:37:21.200 --> 0:37:25.120 me earlier. You know what is interesting about Trump's America? 0:37:25.120 --> 0:37:26.560 And there are bits of it you can dislike or 0:37:26.719 --> 0:37:30.000 like or whatever. What is interesting about Trump's America is 0:37:30.080 --> 0:37:32.160 a lot more people in America are having a go. 0:37:32.760 --> 0:37:35.839 They're setting up companies, they're borrowing money, they're taking risks. 0:37:36.000 --> 0:37:38.200 We need to get to that place. And and as 0:37:38.239 --> 0:37:40.000 I say, you can't put in a piece of paper, 0:37:40.600 --> 0:37:41.800 and one thing, I'm certain. 0:37:41.680 --> 0:37:43.239 You're gonna have to inspire people, aren't you. 0:37:43.320 --> 0:37:45.600 That's right, That's exactly which. 0:37:45.400 --> 0:37:47.120 Takes me back to where I started that are you 0:37:47.200 --> 0:37:50.319 going to be someone who brings people together? Because you're 0:37:50.360 --> 0:37:53.640 known for turning the fire on people, You're not known 0:37:53.760 --> 0:37:56.680 for being someone who I don't know, appeals right across 0:37:56.760 --> 0:37:59.160 the country, has a common message that. 0:37:59.160 --> 0:38:01.560 I'm there, I think, you know, give me. 0:38:01.520 --> 0:38:04.840 An inspirational message. What is great about Britain today? 0:38:04.880 --> 0:38:07.200 Even in my time, even in my time in the 0:38:07.200 --> 0:38:10.120 European Parliament, where perhaps I achieved some level of infamy. 0:38:11.000 --> 0:38:13.440 Was I turning my fire on people? No, I was 0:38:13.480 --> 0:38:16.000 just teasing them. I was just teasing them. They were 0:38:16.040 --> 0:38:17.719 turning their far on me. I mean, we just had 0:38:17.719 --> 0:38:20.400 a party conference seas and where the levels of insightful 0:38:20.400 --> 0:38:23.200 abuse that have come from Starmar in his cabinet are 0:38:23.280 --> 0:38:25.760 off the scale. I've never behaved like that, not with anybody. 0:38:25.880 --> 0:38:28.640 I might have strong opinions, I might express what I 0:38:28.680 --> 0:38:32.560 believe in strongly, what I'm against very strongly. I don't 0:38:32.600 --> 0:38:35.680 think if you look through my political career that you 0:38:35.719 --> 0:38:39.480 will find personal invective. You'll find teasing and not much 0:38:39.480 --> 0:38:43.560 more than that. We have to we have to have 0:38:43.760 --> 0:38:47.960 a vibe, a buzz that says to young people setting 0:38:48.040 --> 0:38:53.000 up businesses, taking risk, even having failures, even having failures 0:38:53.320 --> 0:38:55.960 along the way is a good thing, not a bad thing. 0:38:56.280 --> 0:38:59.120 And you know something I might succeed, I might fail. 0:38:59.320 --> 0:39:01.480 I accept that. Yeah, but I'm going to have a guy. 0:39:01.560 --> 0:39:04.040 If you don't succeed as Prime minister, it's not the 0:39:04.080 --> 0:39:07.759 same as your personal success. That's about the fortunes of 0:39:07.800 --> 0:39:09.960 the country that are riding on that. So we're going 0:39:10.000 --> 0:39:10.799 to need more than a vibe. 0:39:10.840 --> 0:39:12.359 Well, I think the two are the same thing. We're 0:39:12.360 --> 0:39:15.760 in that much trouble. We're in that much trouble. 0:39:15.760 --> 0:39:18.320 Well, you as you as one man, and the vibe 0:39:18.360 --> 0:39:19.239 you create. 0:39:20.160 --> 0:39:22.560 There's a whole movement here now. There's a whole movement 0:39:22.560 --> 0:39:25.360 here now, and you've seen and I'm sitting talking to you. 0:39:25.360 --> 0:39:27.720 I don't do many interviews these days. I allow others 0:39:27.760 --> 0:39:29.839 to go and do it. There's a much broader range 0:39:29.840 --> 0:39:32.520 of talent, you know, that has come on the scene 0:39:32.760 --> 0:39:36.480 for the party. We're building a mass membership very rapidly. 0:39:37.040 --> 0:39:39.000 You see. I know you're a risk taker, but I 0:39:39.000 --> 0:39:41.160 think the moment of real risk that exists for your 0:39:41.200 --> 0:39:43.919 party right now is that you've had this sustained period 0:39:43.960 --> 0:39:46.480 where you've been rising in the opinion polls while you've 0:39:46.480 --> 0:39:51.520 been making big promises on spending, on big tax cuts, 0:39:51.719 --> 0:39:53.520 and now you're at a point where're having to rethink 0:39:53.520 --> 0:39:57.920 your economic policy and it's it's probably going to be 0:39:58.040 --> 0:39:59.920 much more like to make reality. 0:40:00.000 --> 0:40:01.920 We're going to make bigger propose. We're going to make 0:40:01.960 --> 0:40:02.560 even bigger proper. 0:40:02.760 --> 0:40:05.400 That's not the signals that your people in your party 0:40:05.400 --> 0:40:06.920 are setting out. They're saying you're going to have a 0:40:06.920 --> 0:40:11.840 fully costed manifest facing the same realities that other parties. 0:40:12.000 --> 0:40:12.920 Well, look, we're in goment. 0:40:12.920 --> 0:40:13.720 Maybe you're not special. 0:40:13.760 --> 0:40:15.839 We're in government now. We're in government now, in the 0:40:15.880 --> 0:40:18.600 local government. You know, we're going to do our damned 0:40:18.600 --> 0:40:20.719 list to be in government in Wales next May. We 0:40:20.800 --> 0:40:22.279 may or may not succeed, but we're going to do 0:40:22.320 --> 0:40:24.239 our damned list. I won't have to be judged by 0:40:24.320 --> 0:40:25.600 what we do. I accept that. 0:40:25.800 --> 0:40:29.160 So is Donald Trump a role model for you for government. 0:40:29.880 --> 0:40:35.080 In terms of standing up for the national interest above 0:40:35.120 --> 0:40:41.920 all else. Yes, in terms of keeping promises that you 0:40:42.000 --> 0:40:45.200 made the electorate. Yes, there are many other areas in 0:40:45.200 --> 0:40:47.440 which we might disagree or might do things. Which are 0:40:47.480 --> 0:40:49.640 the areas that there are other areas that might disagree, 0:40:49.680 --> 0:40:52.839 social policy, et cetera. We might see things differently. But 0:40:53.280 --> 0:40:57.000 the fundamentalism of Trump is you tell the electorate I'm 0:40:57.040 --> 0:40:59.719 going to do X, and you actually do it. And 0:41:00.080 --> 0:41:02.520 that's what he's doing. And you know, and we might 0:41:02.560 --> 0:41:05.400 look at I mean, look, you know, you and I 0:41:05.440 --> 0:41:07.160 consider over coup of see and talk about some of 0:41:07.200 --> 0:41:10.759 the tariff machinations and say to ourselves, what the hell 0:41:10.840 --> 0:41:13.239 is going on, or we could go back to the 0:41:13.239 --> 0:41:15.440 thirties and think about tariffs and damage it's done to 0:41:15.440 --> 0:41:16.479 the economy or et cetera. 0:41:16.560 --> 0:41:17.640 Do you think he's damaging them? 0:41:18.000 --> 0:41:21.840 It's irrelevant. No, no, no, no, listen to me. It's irrelevant. 0:41:22.160 --> 0:41:24.800 He promised the American public he'd used tariffs as a weapon. 0:41:24.960 --> 0:41:27.239 He's doing it, so he is. So is he to 0:41:27.280 --> 0:41:30.560 a large extent restoring faith in the democratic system. Yes, 0:41:31.040 --> 0:41:33.680 and we will have to if we succeed. There is 0:41:33.680 --> 0:41:35.279 a long way to go. As I said said to 0:41:35.280 --> 0:41:38.359 you earlier halfway through the marathon, if we succeed, we 0:41:38.440 --> 0:41:40.760 must do the same. Because one of the reasons why 0:41:41.000 --> 0:41:43.680 reform is doing so well is there is a complete 0:41:43.680 --> 0:41:46.359 breakdown of trust. No one believes a blooming thing. 0:41:46.400 --> 0:41:48.680 The other parties say, I think you could be part 0:41:48.719 --> 0:41:51.359 of that breakdown of trust because this document which said 0:41:51.400 --> 0:41:53.680 our contract with you, it's a contract with the voters. 0:41:53.680 --> 0:41:55.480 It's the document you stood on last year. 0:41:55.560 --> 0:41:58.279 I didn't write it. I inherited it to be fair. 0:41:59.800 --> 0:42:02.920 Lead standing there face Your face is right there on 0:42:02.960 --> 0:42:03.239 the front. 0:42:03.400 --> 0:42:05.080 Came in after it was published to be fair, and 0:42:05.440 --> 0:42:08.360 we changed the front page. But look are the principles 0:42:08.440 --> 0:42:11.600 right within it? Yes, can we but. 0:42:11.600 --> 0:42:13.360 There are numbers in it. It's put forward as a 0:42:13.360 --> 0:42:17.120 contract breakdown of trust. And you've been sort of a 0:42:17.120 --> 0:42:17.960 breakdown of trust. 0:42:18.200 --> 0:42:23.360 You have you seen what the concern is your interview? 0:42:23.480 --> 0:42:25.719 If you complain about a breakdown of trust, don't you 0:42:25.760 --> 0:42:27.520 have to stick to your I stick. 0:42:27.360 --> 0:42:29.360 To I would like nobody in Britain to pay income 0:42:29.440 --> 0:42:31.360 tax until they end twenty thousand pounds. 0:42:31.400 --> 0:42:33.160 And when do you think you'd be able to deliver 0:42:33.239 --> 0:42:33.960 that in government? 0:42:33.960 --> 0:42:35.640 I will answer that over the course of the next 0:42:35.640 --> 0:42:37.279 few weeks, not today, as I told you before I 0:42:37.280 --> 0:42:40.479 came on here. But do I want to want of that? Yes? 0:42:41.280 --> 0:42:44.680 Is it realistic immediately we're in government? No, and those 0:42:44.680 --> 0:42:51.279 circumstances are changed. Are the principles, aspirations and even the 0:42:51.360 --> 0:42:55.279 numbers that are set out there wrong? No they're not. 0:42:55.520 --> 0:42:58.120 They're right. But it's all about getting things in the 0:42:58.160 --> 0:42:58.640 right order. 0:43:00.200 --> 0:43:03.880 This is the Bloomberg Weekend interview. I wondered if you 0:43:03.960 --> 0:43:07.280 get one these days, because you are more in demand 0:43:07.360 --> 0:43:10.880 than ever before. According to your team, you're meeting presidents, 0:43:10.960 --> 0:43:14.000 prime ministers and kings from the Middle East these days. 0:43:14.880 --> 0:43:17.480 I wouldn't comment on that particularly, but King or at 0:43:17.600 --> 0:43:19.239 least I remember, and if I do, it, wouldn't tell you. 0:43:19.560 --> 0:43:20.800 I wouldn't tell you. I wouldn't do. 0:43:20.840 --> 0:43:23.280 You know what I'm it's inaccurate that you're meeting Trstan's 0:43:23.320 --> 0:43:25.120 Prime Minister and kings from the Middley. 0:43:24.840 --> 0:43:26.360 Do you know what. One of the reasons I've survived 0:43:26.400 --> 0:43:29.640 so long in public lives, I'm very discreet and you know, 0:43:29.719 --> 0:43:32.279 if I have private meanings with people, I never discuss it. 0:43:32.560 --> 0:43:35.000 It's one of your senior supporters and donors who said this. 0:43:35.160 --> 0:43:36.799 Well, I don't know who he is or she is, 0:43:36.840 --> 0:43:40.480 but well, well I wouldn't comment on it, all right, 0:43:40.520 --> 0:43:42.759 I wouldn't comment on it. I don't comment on things 0:43:42.840 --> 0:43:44.759 like that, and people trust me because of that, you know, 0:43:44.800 --> 0:43:45.600 I keep confidence. 0:43:45.760 --> 0:43:48.040 But you are in circles you haven't been in before. 0:43:48.239 --> 0:43:51.600 That's fair, That's fair, I mean, that is fair. Yeah. 0:43:51.760 --> 0:43:53.080 I think a lot of people around the world think 0:43:53.080 --> 0:43:55.600 we are going to win the next election just because 0:43:55.640 --> 0:43:58.600 they people that you know, like this country, see what 0:43:58.640 --> 0:43:59.880 a mess has got itself into. 0:44:00.280 --> 0:44:03.120 See it's a long haul because technically it's not due 0:44:03.160 --> 0:44:05.239 for another four years and the current government has a 0:44:05.320 --> 0:44:08.840 large authority do you think you can sustain the level 0:44:08.880 --> 0:44:13.120 of engagement you need to still be in this position 0:44:13.320 --> 0:44:18.080 in four years time. You're not really known for you 0:44:18.239 --> 0:44:19.640 stuck at the idea of wanting you ab out of 0:44:19.680 --> 0:44:22.440 the European Union, but you've had a number of different 0:44:22.480 --> 0:44:23.800 parties over the years. 0:44:24.160 --> 0:44:25.879 I stuck at it more than anybody. I've been doing 0:44:25.880 --> 0:44:29.440 this since nineteen ninety three. Did I finally retire on 0:44:29.480 --> 0:44:31.600 the thirty first of January twenty twenty, Yes, I did. 0:44:31.920 --> 0:44:32.239 That was it? 0:44:32.280 --> 0:44:35.480 I had done with it. I came back into politics 0:44:35.560 --> 0:44:38.879 last year. It was probably the toughest decision in my life. 0:44:39.080 --> 0:44:42.400 You know, I turned sixty last year. Life pretty settled, 0:44:43.160 --> 0:44:46.040 some good jobs, a company being quite successful in a 0:44:46.080 --> 0:44:49.960 variety of areas, first couple of grandkids born. You know, 0:44:50.040 --> 0:44:52.560 life was pretty good. So I knew I was making 0:44:52.560 --> 0:44:56.200 a big sacrifice coming back into it, and I'm determined 0:44:56.520 --> 0:45:00.520 to make it a success. And I think I've been 0:45:00.640 --> 0:45:03.840 very you know, we talked about persistent, but I've generally 0:45:03.920 --> 0:45:07.960 been pretty consistent in the kind of values and views 0:45:08.400 --> 0:45:12.600 and beliefs that have had. And can I sustain it 0:45:12.640 --> 0:45:16.400 for four years? Yep? It's a long haul, but yep, 0:45:16.719 --> 0:45:19.279 can the government sustain it for four years, I think 0:45:19.400 --> 0:45:22.520 very unlikely. And I think, you know, just as you've 0:45:22.520 --> 0:45:26.080 seen reform take over the center right of British politics, 0:45:27.000 --> 0:45:29.000 I think there's a massive change on the left about 0:45:29.040 --> 0:45:32.719 to come. And I think that I think that the 0:45:32.760 --> 0:45:37.920 government will be forced by twenty seven into a genuine 0:45:37.920 --> 0:45:42.719 austerity budget. I mean, a real austerity budget. Just the markets, 0:45:42.960 --> 0:45:45.440 you know, are going to demand that. And I suspect 0:45:45.440 --> 0:45:48.080 at that moment the left of British politics splits in 0:45:48.120 --> 0:45:51.360 a very very dramatic way. And I think the growth 0:45:51.560 --> 0:45:58.359 of the Greens, the Corbynites, the sort of urban left 0:45:58.400 --> 0:46:02.160 of politics, those who vote on gaza and religion more 0:46:02.239 --> 0:46:06.000 than British issues, all of those things, I think they 0:46:06.040 --> 0:46:08.279 will struggle to see our twenty seven. 0:46:08.480 --> 0:46:10.120 That's why you think there'll be a general election? 0:46:10.200 --> 0:46:10.879 Then I do. 0:46:11.000 --> 0:46:14.640 Yeah, Okay, I want to know what sustains you. Is 0:46:14.680 --> 0:46:16.160 it true you read constantly? 0:46:16.680 --> 0:46:18.440 I do read a lot, Yeah, I do read a lot. 0:46:18.480 --> 0:46:19.480 What are you reading at the moment? 0:46:19.560 --> 0:46:22.800 Well, I'm The last book I read was mister Bellfour's Poodle, 0:46:22.920 --> 0:46:25.279 which is about the constitutional crisis between the. 0:46:25.160 --> 0:46:27.719 Commons of the Lords early twentieth century. 0:46:27.800 --> 0:46:29.640 Yeah, the principles are exactly the same. And by the way, 0:46:29.640 --> 0:46:32.600 the Salisbury Convention has been there since nineteen eleven, And so. 0:46:32.640 --> 0:46:33.719 How are you interested in that? 0:46:34.000 --> 0:46:36.080 Because say we get elected on the manifesto to say 0:46:36.080 --> 0:46:37.880 we're going to do X, Y and z. What if 0:46:37.880 --> 0:46:39.320 the House what if the House of Lords would have 0:46:39.360 --> 0:46:42.520 block us? The what if the civil service would have 0:46:42.520 --> 0:46:44.359 block us? These are all the things that we're thinking 0:46:44.360 --> 0:46:45.319 and going through at the moment. 0:46:45.360 --> 0:46:46.920 You're going back one hundred years to try and find 0:46:46.960 --> 0:46:47.520 the answers to that. 0:46:47.600 --> 0:46:50.320 Principles don't change over centuries. What else are you reading 0:46:50.440 --> 0:46:52.359 over centuries? Principles day. 0:46:52.480 --> 0:46:54.280 How do you like poetry? 0:46:54.520 --> 0:46:56.760 Like a little bit of poetry? I wouldn't say hugely. 0:46:56.880 --> 0:47:01.279 I read. I like biography, I like history. My current book, 0:47:01.320 --> 0:47:04.359 which i've really barely started, is written by the former 0:47:04.400 --> 0:47:07.360 Prime Minister of Armenia, and it's about how small states 0:47:07.360 --> 0:47:10.279 can survive in the big wide world. Sarkasan is his name. 0:47:10.360 --> 0:47:13.080 He wrote everything you're reading is kind of part of 0:47:13.120 --> 0:47:15.919 your homework if you like for government. Is that the case? 0:47:16.320 --> 0:47:17.840 What do you do to actually put your head in 0:47:17.880 --> 0:47:18.600 a different place? 0:47:19.520 --> 0:47:22.359 Yeah, I mean I like to go out walk when 0:47:22.360 --> 0:47:25.400 I get time. I like to fish. I like a 0:47:25.480 --> 0:47:27.920 day at the races. I like the odd day at 0:47:27.920 --> 0:47:30.920 the cricket. There are things I enjoy doing. No, the 0:47:30.960 --> 0:47:32.360 truth is, I mean, look, we are living in a 0:47:32.400 --> 0:47:37.360 twenty four to seven media environment. I am a political entrepreneur. 0:47:38.120 --> 0:47:42.720 Even though I'm trying to shed responsibilities of the party 0:47:42.800 --> 0:47:46.040 for the moment, I'm still the main entry point for 0:47:46.120 --> 0:47:48.160 most new people that want to give money or stand 0:47:48.160 --> 0:47:52.240 as candidates. And so most of my life these days, 0:47:52.360 --> 0:47:55.560 believe it or not, is focusing on what's beneath the bonnet, 0:47:55.920 --> 0:47:58.520 focusing on the structure of the party, focusing on the 0:47:58.560 --> 0:48:02.400 funding of the party, focusing on making sure that across 0:48:02.400 --> 0:48:05.600 all the regions of the United Kingdom we're prepared. And 0:48:05.640 --> 0:48:07.719 I just sort of say this to you, sort of 0:48:07.960 --> 0:48:11.840 towards the end that I don't think anyone's yet really understood. 0:48:12.560 --> 0:48:17.040 Next May May the sixth next year is the British 0:48:17.080 --> 0:48:21.480 equivalent of the midterms in America. These are elections of 0:48:21.480 --> 0:48:25.600 a magnitude and a significance that almost nobody yet understands. 0:48:26.080 --> 0:48:27.759 To close, I want to go back to where I 0:48:27.880 --> 0:48:30.600 began and the kind of person you're known for, and 0:48:30.640 --> 0:48:32.279 the kind of person you'd have to be if you're 0:48:32.560 --> 0:48:36.719 to be a great prime minister. What would you say 0:48:36.760 --> 0:48:40.160 to someone who worries that you might deport their grandmother 0:48:40.880 --> 0:48:43.920 or you might not be a leader for them because 0:48:44.000 --> 0:48:47.759 they are not white or they're Muslim. No, what would 0:48:47.760 --> 0:48:48.239 you say to that? 0:48:48.360 --> 0:48:50.799 There are people give me a message to say the 0:48:50.880 --> 0:48:53.600 questions beneath you. But I would also say this if 0:48:53.640 --> 0:48:55.799 you the only people that call me a racist tend 0:48:55.800 --> 0:48:58.240 to be called Jocasta and have gone to Saint Mary's 0:48:58.239 --> 0:49:01.120 Ascot and be upper middle class and very snobby. 0:49:01.360 --> 0:49:03.960 Is that to someone who'd be worried about you as surprised? 0:49:04.000 --> 0:49:07.120 What is your message of unity? Do you have one? 0:49:07.239 --> 0:49:10.760 Our message for unity is if you're in this country legally, 0:49:11.000 --> 0:49:13.240 whether you've been a for one generation or one hundred 0:49:13.239 --> 0:49:17.479 and fifty generations, if you're paying your taxes, obeying the law, 0:49:17.880 --> 0:49:22.480 being part of our community, recognizing there is commonality between 0:49:22.600 --> 0:49:25.920 all of us, whilst we're different, things that we share. 0:49:26.120 --> 0:49:29.759 You're incredibly welcome, But are we here to be the 0:49:29.840 --> 0:49:31.560 dumping ground of the world. Are we here to be 0:49:31.600 --> 0:49:33.680 the food bank of the world. Are we here to 0:49:33.760 --> 0:49:38.960 have uncontrolled, massive legal immigration changing our culture in dangerous 0:49:38.960 --> 0:49:41.080 women on our streets now on that we're going to 0:49:41.120 --> 0:49:44.799 get really, really tough, and I think you'll be very, 0:49:44.960 --> 0:49:48.120 very surprised how many people from all different backgrounds of 0:49:48.160 --> 0:49:51.520 religions from all over the world support that message and 0:49:51.680 --> 0:49:54.600 want that as the country that they've either been born 0:49:54.600 --> 0:49:56.759 into or chosen to live in. 0:49:57.760 --> 0:50:04.080 Nasure Parish. Thank you, thank you, And that's the Michelle 0:50:04.160 --> 0:50:07.839 Hussein Show for this week. To make sure you never 0:50:07.880 --> 0:50:11.560 miss an episode, please subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, 0:50:11.880 --> 0:50:13.919 and if you want to leave us a comment while 0:50:13.920 --> 0:50:17.200 you're there, I'm told that's a good thing. If you'd 0:50:17.239 --> 0:50:19.959 like to see my conversation with Nigel Farash, you'll find 0:50:19.960 --> 0:50:23.680 the video online and at bloomberg dot com Slash Weekend 0:50:23.800 --> 0:50:26.719 you'll find the written version of this interview with a 0:50:26.760 --> 0:50:30.760 portrait of Nigel Faraj and my notes why I asked, 0:50:30.800 --> 0:50:35.080 what I did and the context around it. The Michelle 0:50:35.120 --> 0:50:38.360 Hussein Show is produced by Jessica Beck and Chris Martlu. 0:50:38.600 --> 0:50:42.320 Guest booking by Dave Warren, Social media by Alex Morgan. 0:50:42.880 --> 0:50:46.799 Our sound engineers are Blake Maples and Kyle Murdoch. Our 0:50:46.880 --> 0:50:51.640 video editors are Laura Francis and Toby Babalola. Our executive 0:50:51.680 --> 0:50:56.200 producer is Louisa Lewis. Brendan Francis Newnham is Editorial director 0:50:56.239 --> 0:51:00.680 of Audio and Special Projects for Bloomberg Weekend. Katherine Bell 0:51:01.080 --> 0:51:05.480 is the executive editor of Weekend. Our music is composed 0:51:05.480 --> 0:51:08.640 by Bot Walshaw and we'd also like to thank Will Shaw, 0:51:08.920 --> 0:51:14.760 Alana Susnow, Victoria Wakeley, Adam Blenford, Sammasadi and Sage Bauman 0:51:15.960 --> 0:51:19.160 and thank you for listening. Come back next Weekend