WEBVTT - Farmer Hoggett in the Slammer 0:00:02.200 --> 0:00:05.240 I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing. 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:10.400 The movie Babe is very, very important in my family, 0:00:10.880 --> 0:00:13.640 and what takes the movie from good to grade is 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.760 the humanity and the wisdom in James Cromwell's farmer Hogget. 0:00:18.760 --> 0:00:21.959 Cromwell was already in his fifties when Babe came out. 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:24.880 It's easy to forget that his weathered face was still 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:28.160 a fresh one. In Hollywood. He was a working actor. 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:31.440 He played Archie Bunker's buddy Screech Cunningham in All in 0:00:31.480 --> 0:00:35.360 the Family, but Babe was his breakthrough role, and the 0:00:35.440 --> 0:00:38.800 moment he broke through, he put his celebrity to work. 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:43.239 Cromwell might be the most committed activist in Hollywood. Not 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:47.400 just fundraisers and photo ops. Cromwell's in the streets and 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:52.320 chain defenses. He's been arrested five times. Both art and 0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:58.240 politics are in James Cromwell's blood father, mother, grandmother, stepmother 0:00:58.600 --> 0:01:01.800 all actors. And you grew around that. I grew up. Yeah, 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:03.920 I grew up until I was six. They were divorced 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:06.560 when I was six, uh, and so I moved with 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:09.960 my mother back East. I think I was probably nine 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:13.080 when I went out for the first time with him 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:15.560 to Hollywood, and then he was in fifty three he 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:19.680 was blacklisted, so he came east the theater. Yeah, he 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:24.080 was in Mary, Mary and Sabrina Affair, so too, very 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:26.920 long running plays. I think they each ran acting three acting. 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:29.839 So for people who don't understand that the Hollywood Blacklist 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:32.640 was to a large degree the Hollywood Blacklist, you can 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:36.880 go elsewhere and work or not. Everybody, and he had testified, 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:40.960 but he had left New York before the Communist Party 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:45.360 really got organized, so he had nothing to say. It 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:48.240 was always my father's opinion. It's my opinion too that 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:51.920 really the blacklist was directed not so much at Communists, 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:55.720 but principally first of all Jews, and then secondly people 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:57.640 who had come back from the Second World War who 0:01:57.680 --> 0:02:01.800 had a different view about America, what was happening in 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:04.880 America because they could see what Eisenhower described as the 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:09.800 military industrial complex, and they could also, yeah, the discrepancy 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:15.040 between what America supposedly stood for and what it actually did. Obviously, 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:17.680 what was happening to the people of color, Indian people, 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:22.800 women's rights, not nothing existed. It was all people who 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:26.840 knew better, people who agreed were the more liberal and 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:30.280 democratic country kept their mouths shut so as not to 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:34.320 make ways. As you know that both all three unions 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:37.880 did not support the people who belonged to those unions 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:41.920 who were attacked by UK. Howard Us had bought the 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:45.519 studio and because my father had testified, he thought of 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:48.280 my father as a communist and wanted him out, but 0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:50.680 couldn't fire him because of the contract, so he gave 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:53.480 him a film to direct, call I Married a Communist, 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:57.400 And my father knew what he was doing and said, listen, 0:02:57.400 --> 0:02:59.720 I'll direct this, but you can't. I can't direct this. 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:02.839 You have to rewrite this. Well, he got writer after writer. 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:05.160 Nobody could fix this was a piece of ship. It 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:07.919 was just propaganda, until finally he settled. It was a 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:11.600 million dollar contract back in fifty three, settled the whole thing. 0:03:11.720 --> 0:03:15.000 My father bought a building in Beverly Hills, came back 0:03:15.000 --> 0:03:16.920 and did a play with Henry Founder called Point of 0:03:16.919 --> 0:03:20.720 No Return about JP Marquand and won a Tony, so 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:23.639 his first time back on the stage you want a Tony, 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:26.920 and then went on to do many many plays in 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:30.280 New York until basically I did go back to Hollywood. 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:33.000 He swore that he would never go back, but he 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:35.119 did towards the end of his life. I'm not sure 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:40.119 exactly why. And they did two of Robert Altman's pictures, 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:43.360 Three Women and The Wedding. Do you get a sense 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:47.360 that both acting for you and an activism for you 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:50.960 because of what your father went through with the being blacklisted, 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:53.080 do you find that that had that impact on you 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:57.200 and your life? He is a role model. Obviously. I 0:03:57.560 --> 0:04:01.000 loved um what I knew of his principles, what he 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:06.040 stood for. Um. He had a very jaundiced view of Hollywood, 0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:09.760 which I share. He was very frustrated all his life. 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:13.600 He was a very good director, but he didn't promote 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:16.960 himself the way Ford and Hawks did who had publicists, 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:19.560 and so he didn't. He sort of was down the 0:04:19.600 --> 0:04:22.719 food chain as far as the projects all that, and 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:25.479 then of course what he went through in the studio system, 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:29.120 you know, with as the personnelity, as you know, as 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:32.120 you will know, and uh you you encapsulate. I mean, 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:33.360 I don't want to dwell on this because I want 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:35.240 to talk about more positive things. But give me an 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:37.360 example of what your frustration with the town as man, 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:42.440 not give you mine? Okay, the emphasis on celebrity, the 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:49.320 emphasis on profit packaging an independent voice. John Wells telling 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:52.560 me he wrote a beautiful story about a man who 0:04:52.600 --> 0:04:56.359 lost his job in in two thousand and eight and 0:04:56.400 --> 0:04:59.200 had to go live with this um his in laws 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:03.159 and selling telephones. He had been a big executive and 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:07.159 what that the tension in his family, what it did 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:10.240 to him personally. The studio he had a deal first 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:13.560 look with the Warners, and Warner said, yeah, that's great, great, 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:16.240 We'll put Tom Cruise in it. John said, no, no, 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:19.279 wait a minute, this is a little film. You put 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:22.240 Tom in it, the accountants are going to tell you 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:25.320 that you gotta be it's gotta be capsized. The capsizes 0:05:25.360 --> 0:05:28.000 the film, and so what does it do? He goes 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:30.760 into their nobody. He can't get it out. It's gone. 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:34.040 The business is completely taken over by non creative people, 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:37.279 non creative people from top to bottom. It's marketing people 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:40.640 and finance people. They don't even like movies. These guys 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:42.880 aren't in the movie business. They'd like to just do 0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:45.719 the money part, the producing part, and then have no 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:48.000 product at all and go on to the next raising 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:49.520 money for the next one. If they could be making 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:53.960 money doing something else would now when acting for you professionally? 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:56.800 Did you study somewhere? I left Middlebury where I was 0:05:56.800 --> 0:06:00.200 at college, and came and study with Herbert burg Off 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:02.479 at the HBC and did a play with he and 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:06.640 Udah and Sandy Dennis. Then my father, Ruth was touring 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:11.920 my stepmother, Ruth Nelson was touring um long Day's Journey. Uh. 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:14.479 And they had played Pittsburgh. So they had gone to 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:17.880 Carnegie Tech. And my father really wanted me to have 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:20.479 an education, the one that he didn't have. So I 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:23.880 went there for about two and a half years. Left 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:27.560 that finished middle transferred, I've transferred to Carnegie Tech. And 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:29.120 then I didn't make it all the way through Carnegie 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:33.600 techither I crossed the disaster and but that's okay. Did 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:36.200 you come into New York to start your career? Uh? No, 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:38.200 I didn't. My father he had done a play at 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:41.160 Cleveland and got to know the man who ran Cleveland 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:45.240 kl molo and so he said, there's a wonderful opportunity. 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:50.400 You can go as a journeyman and act and stage manage, 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:52.520 and I'm going to direct a play, he said, So 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:55.360 you can be my stage managed. So I started at Cleveland, 0:06:56.080 --> 0:07:01.359 and then that summer after Kennedy was killed. Um that 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:05.160 summer I went to Europe with directors from all over 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:08.440 the world. Was the anniversary of Shakespeare's birth. So I 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:11.800 had all these incredible people who ran their companies and 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:15.960 you know in Slovenian, all these wonderful directors. And I 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:18.440 did that. And when I came back, he had cut 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:20.520 out a little squib from the New York Times that 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:24.560 a theater that was touring the South needed actors and directors. 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:26.600 And I he said to go down audition for which 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:30.520 I did, got the job. Arrived in New Orleans, met 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:32.520 by the head of the theater, taken to my place 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:34.400 where we're gonna stay in. On the side of the 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:37.760 of the next to the door was a plaque which 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:40.840 said coloreds only. And I thought, oh, it's a throwback 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:43.480 to the Civil War. Wh they must leave these things up. 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:46.520 Went up there. Nice black ladies showed us to our room. 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:48.960 We went out to a restaurant and promptly got thrown 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:51.000 out of the restaurant because John O'Neil, who was the 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:52.760 head of the theater, was black. Then I was white. 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:55.920 And guy came over and you're shaking and said, I 0:07:56.240 --> 0:07:59.720 ask you to leave. My reaction is the Irish pardon 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:04.280 sol was to John said no, no, no, no, I'll 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:06.760 handle it and advise the guy that he was violating 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:10.760 our civil rights. And and that was my introduction to 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:16.000 a company that toured Mississippi, Alabama, Tennessee, and Georgia during 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:19.440 the height of the civil rights Shakespeare No Doing, Waiting 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:26.000 for Gotto and Pearley Victorious to opposite extremes to people 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:29.280 who had never seen television, never probably never seen a 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:35.520 movie four sixty four, and I was actually I had 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:39.800 gone to school with a guy um and I didn't 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:43.319 know he was there, Mickey Schwerner and that was Schwerner, 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:46.160 Cheney and Goodman. And we knew as we were in 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:50.480 Mississippi traveling around that Mickey was they were missing, but 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:53.760 I didn't know it was Mickey until much later. Uh. 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:55.719 And they hadn't been found in the levee they've been 0:08:55.760 --> 0:08:59.440 buried in. So when in the early part of your career, 0:08:59.640 --> 0:09:01.719 was there part of you that you said, oh, the 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:03.920 theater is more my calling and I didn't You didn't 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:05.560 really want to go out to Hollywood and try to 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:07.719 make films into TV shows. The theater was more your 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:12.920 you're licking. First of all, it was I was emotionally retarded. 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:15.960 So I wanted to design sports cars. And I went 0:09:15.960 --> 0:09:18.680 to Middlebury as a part of a three two program. 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:20.240 You went to r p I and you got both 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:23.319 degrees in engineering and engineering. And I wanted to design 0:09:23.360 --> 0:09:25.400 sports cards. That was that. My father was making a 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:30.360 picture in Sweden within Mark Bergmann's my brit Nil Sineva Dolbeck, 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:33.840 and spend Niklas was the cameraman. And I went, I 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:37.480 was now eighteen, and I looked around. I looked at them, 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:40.760 and we went out to my Bert's house, and people 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:46.840 are articulate and attractive and loquacious, assisticated and sophisticated. And 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:49.040 I thought, ship man, this is I gotta do this. 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:52.760 I gotta do this. You know those people. So it 0:09:52.840 --> 0:09:54.800 only took me about a month to get, you know, 0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:59.040 frustrated with the theater department at Middlebury. Now that I 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:02.079 was and I knew anything. And then went to New 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:06.000 York and uh, and Herbert was. Herbert was actually very 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:10.160 really central to my I mean, for all his shenanigans, 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:13.840 I really loved him and adored uda. When you meet 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:17.680 with Herbert, what was your idea of what acting was 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:19.640 for you, Like what was your really because I have 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:21.280 my own story about that, but tell me, like when 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:23.319 you got there was it because you hear men sit 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:25.680 there and go I was gonna pick up girls. I 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:27.680 was gonna, you know, I was gonna. I think pick 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:32.000 up was the first. That was first. Women. My old 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:35.600 my oldest friend in this town is a Swiss actress 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:38.800 and she was the book. She ran the book, and 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:41.400 I thought she was the cat's pajamas and we've we've 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:47.400 been dearest friends lasting long time. What was like that 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:56.520 was magnificent, you know, um intense, um, implacable, brave, um smart. 0:10:57.520 --> 0:10:59.240 I remember the last time I saw her. She was 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:02.680 doing a play. I went to see her off Broadway. Um, 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:06.840 I think it's called Mrs Klein, about a psychologist. And 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:09.679 I waited for her and she came out and I 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:13.000 started to talk to her and I wept. I wept. 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:18.000 I she meant so much. I did a TV series, 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:20.640 and I had to choose between a job that was 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:22.960 a very good job and a very challenging piece and 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:25.640 a great role for me early in my career, or 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:28.880 to do a TV series, which was a very successful 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:31.600 show that was nothing to be ashamed of. But the 0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:34.160 real opportunity was I was going to play Julie Harris's son, 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:36.880 and I did that instead. For it, I passed on 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:40.079 what was the better role to spend a year and 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:42.120 a half with her and be around her, and oh 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:44.000 my god, I was not a copportunity of a life 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:47.880 wonderful another magic woman. But when you do your work 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:50.520 compared to them, I mean, how was that path change 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:53.360 for you as an actor? Well? I went to Tech 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:56.319 and I had a wonderful teacher the first year before 0:11:56.320 --> 0:12:00.240 you got fired, which was basically, you know, an actor 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:05.640 prepares the method, um and UM. A lot of it 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:08.040 I got, I think subliminately through my father and mother, 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:12.000 watching my father and watching my mother stepmother, um, and 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:15.079 then actually doing for the ten years that I did 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:20.520 resident theater, not taking acting classes, but watching people making 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:24.880 your own mistakes, being out on stage. In terms of acting, 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:27.600 I think I learned. I learned a lot because John 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:33.680 Voyd brought Sandy Meisner's repeat exercise to Hollywood. He altered 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:36.480 it a little, and I did that class with Richard 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:39.520 and Jill Clayburg, Richard Dreyfuss and Joe Clayberg and a 0:12:39.559 --> 0:12:42.199 lot of other people who were working, and I happen 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:45.040 to really love the repeat exercise, and the has great value, 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:46.880 and I love the fact that it's not taught by 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:49.600 a teacher. You know. Then of course I got a 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:52.640 magnificent the best teacher I've ever had. Milton could sell us. 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:57.120 Who was I just adored? Didn't tell me why why 0:12:57.120 --> 0:13:02.400 did I love Milton could sell us? Because in his class. 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:05.840 I took his class for like maybe nine months, and 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:08.959 then I left, and I'll never have many memories of him. 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:12.880 One was I was working at the time doing a pickup. 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:15.360 I did a pilot and they picked up eight episodes 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:18.080 and we were shooting, and I missed some of the classes. 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:21.480 This is like an eighty three eighty four, you know, 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:25.240 And my then girlfriend was taking class when we go 0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:28.600 to that Beverly Hills theater of his and we went 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:30.880 to I think I went to our Thursday nights or something. 0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:33.120 So I go some night and this one guy gets 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:36.440 up and he does the scene and he and he's 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:40.679 pulled a chair down to get the comments from Conzellis, 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:43.480 and Conzellis begins, you know, what do you think and 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:46.280 what were going forward? Always with you you reflect back 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:49.080 and then he starts to say things, and the guy 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:52.240 starts to kind of debate him, and Conzellis with the 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:54.880 big Conzellis was a bear of a man and very 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:59.120 you know, very intense sky but it's nonetheless kind of 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:01.400 he really laid back and he said, he said, he said, 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:04.720 we're not here to debate my opinions with you. He said, 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:06.640 you pay the money, you come here. I give you 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:08.760 my opinions. That's why we're here for me to give 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:12.280 you my opinions. And and I'm sitting there going because 0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:14.959 I had taken Strasbourg in New York for a year 0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:17.040 and a half and studied privately with people in New York, 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:21.840 and and I'm there and I'll never forget this. I 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:25.400 did a scene from How I Got That story by 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:27.800 Emlyn Gray, where there was the person that was the press, 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:30.120 and then there was the person that they called the event. 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:32.240 And so the one guy is the reporter and the 0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:34.560 other guy plays like thirty two different characters. You play 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:38.840 the Vietnamese dictator's wife. I did that in this class. 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:40.880 And he walks up to him. When he walks up 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:43.280 behind me, I don't even know he here works behind 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:45.720 me whip me was Gonzalas. And the only thing he 0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:47.240 ever said to me the whole class he whispers and 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:54.160 he goes lose eight pounds. That's it, walked away. I 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:59.320 should tell me, Uh, I had done Hamlet. I produced 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:02.240 my own Hamlet because no one was in L A 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:07.080 and four, and I played it a little theater down 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:09.760 on Santa Monica Boulevard. Sometimes we had more people on 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:12.280 stage than we did in the audience. It was the 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:15.600 Olympic Theater Festival, so the RSC had come and they 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:17.640 were playing out in U c l A. No one 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:19.880 came to ours. But I had a had a very 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:25.240 interesting time, learned quite a bit um. And then subsequent 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:27.800 to that about it a couple of years. Any about 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:34.120 a year later, Milton did a Shakespeare class, uh, because 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:36.280 he was working on Romeo and Juliet, which I also 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:39.080 did with him, and I had was going to do 0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:41.560 the Nunnery scene, and I had done it one time 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:46.200 for him and the class, and he said, um, you 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:48.920 don't know what this play is about. And I said, Milton, 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:52.360 I have done this place seven times. Don't don't tell 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:54.320 me that I don't know. He said, oh, no, no, no, 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:56.920 you know what it is up here in your head? 0:15:57.000 --> 0:15:59.320 You know an intellectually at this place is about, but 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:01.280 you don't know what it's what it is here in 0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:03.600 your heart. I want you to do the do the 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:07.480 scene again. He came behind me and put his hands 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:09.960 on my head and squeezed as hard as he could 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:12.920 and said, now, say to be or not to be? Well. 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:15.080 I didn't have to get but two words out when 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:18.760 I understood what he was driving at the pressure. So 0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:22.480 unfortunately I didn't get to rehearse in the intervening week. 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:26.360 So this the girl who was playing Ophelia, she just 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:28.800 thought that it would be the same. I went outside 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:32.040 to do push ups on my knuckles in the driveway 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:35.080 to get myself cranked up, and as I was doing it, 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:40.840 the door closed to the theater and locked. Now I'm 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:44.480 Hamlet is now locked out of the Nunnery scene. And 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:46.720 I realized that either I'm going to have to knock 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:49.160 on the door and somebody's gonna have to come and 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:51.960 let Hamlet in, which he might very well say, go 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:55.120 go let Hamlet in, or I'm gonna have to run 0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:58.239 around the front like an idiot and come the wrong way. 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:02.480 All of a sudden, hear footsteps. It's Milton. I have 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:06.879 no idea how he knows. He just clicks the door open. 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:09.840 He doesn't say anything to me. I can hardly see him. 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:13.040 And I come on, now, I am so freak. You're 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:17.200 playing Jack now, Jesus, I was on and I everything 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:22.040 completely changed in the scene. She now pursued me. I 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:25.160 kept retreating until I finally hit her. I hit her 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:31.800 really hard in the face. Uh. And I finally got 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:35.560 what this scene was about. And that was that was Milton. 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:39.520 That was both what he had done showing me physically 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:42.639 what was involved, and then because I used an event 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:46.160 that was happening to me in real time, and I 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:49.640 laid the verse on top of that, which of course 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:52.200 is what the RC when they work with the Sonnets, 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:55.240 that's what they do. Um. So I learned, and I 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:58.199 gotta say I just wanted. One of the lessons that 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:01.960 I learned is something that you said. I remember seeing. 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:05.080 I think you did a master's class or you did 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:08.960 some class, and you were describing that when you came 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:11.360 to a there was a scene in which you had 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:14.400 to walk down a corridor. The director said, okay, so 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:16.000 I like, this is what you're gonna do. You're gonna 0:18:16.000 --> 0:18:18.359 walk down this corridor, you're gonna reach you're gonna open 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:20.919 the door. You're gonna step into the room. You're going 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:24.320 to see her on the floor bleeding. You're gonna go 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:26.520 over to her. You're gonna get down, you're gonna pick 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:29.200 her up. I'm going to follow you with a steadicamp. 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:31.640 You're gonna hold her in your arms, and then you're 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:35.399 gonna you weep. And you said no, I'm not because 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:37.640 I know what's going to happen. I'm gonna go down. 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:39.560 I'm gonna get all cranked up to do this scene. 0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:42.440 I'm gonna go down the hall. You're gonna open the door. 0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:44.080 The camera's going to hit the side of the thing. 0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:46.720 You're gonna yell cut. We're gonna do that three and 0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:49.080 four times. By the time by the time I get 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:51.840 to pick her up, I'll have nothing left. This is 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:53.600 what you're gonna do. You're gonna take me down the hall. 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:55.840 You're gonna cut, You're gonna open the door, and you're 0:18:55.840 --> 0:18:59.879 gonna cut. So in other words, being able, that's what 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:04.080 I can remember that from Heaven's Prisoners when they shot 0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:06.600 my wife Kelly Lynch to pieces and I said, you're 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:09.359 gonna come in like a medium shot two cameras medium 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:11.400 and tied of me. When I scooper up and start crying. 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:14.000 If that's a separation, that's it, because you have to 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:17.880 protect yourself. And Milton's whole focus was on For those 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:21.800 who don't know Milton, it's he said, you don't have 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:25.600 an obligation to the play. You don't have an obligation 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:28.240 to the play right or the producer or whatever. You 0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:31.960 have only one obligation that's to your own genius and 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:34.840 whatever that is, it has to be expressed. Nobody gives 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:37.840 a ship whether you feel whether your interpretation of this 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:39.760 play is really wonderful and you're trying to get at 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:43.000 If you're not at home, if you're not engaged, there's 0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:46.480 no performance, there's nobody there. There's nobody to watch. That's 0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:50.640 what I loved about it. Now we've spent the bulk 0:19:50.680 --> 0:19:52.440 of this time talking about your working in the theater 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:55.080 and studying acting. We have other subject to cover. Now 0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:57.439 I'm going to jerk the steering wheel. Now down this 0:19:57.480 --> 0:20:00.879 other road stretch. Cunningham was your breakout role, and you 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:03.119 were doing film and TV before you did. That was 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:05.800 the first thing I was. Yeah, I had come. I 0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:08.399 had gone to CBS because a guy had been at 0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:12.800 Middlebury with Michael Severi. His father was Eric, Eric sever 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:16.080 right and and Eric Michael had been really great with me, 0:20:16.119 --> 0:20:18.320 and he had introduced me to the woman who was 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:21.520 casting him producer director. No, no, I think he was 0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:23.320 in the news department. I know what he actually what 0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:27.359 he was doing as at CBS. Uh. So my agent 0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:29.159 called me one day and said, get over to to 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:33.720 uh to uh CBS right away, uh and they got 0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:36.280 the show. Uh. So I went over there. I had 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:38.919 never seen all in the family, and I read for 0:20:38.960 --> 0:20:42.040 this woman who had interviewed me and found the only 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:46.199 I had sort of fudged on my resume that I 0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:49.080 had played Claudius at Stratford. I did actually go on 0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:52.120 as Claudius, but I was the understudy. She said, you 0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:57.480 did Claudius at Stratford, and I've probably flushed. And so 0:20:57.560 --> 0:21:00.600 she at four o'clock or five o'clock in the afternoon 0:21:00.600 --> 0:21:04.880 on a Friday, I read for her. She says, fine, wait, 0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:06.959 the director will be down. I read for the director. 0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:08.960 The director said, come on, let's go up and meet Norman. 0:21:09.640 --> 0:21:12.120 And the next day I'm doing Studge cutting him, and 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:15.840 I don't know what occurred to me. I think I 0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:19.960 had in my head art Carney, Hey, come on, oh yeah, 0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:25.840 I'm a off. So I guess I did that day 0:21:25.960 --> 0:21:29.359 and and Norman loved it. And the first show I did, 0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:33.520 Carol had quit and he was holding the show up, 0:21:34.560 --> 0:21:37.000 and so he did eventually come back. He came back 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:39.840 because Norman said, what am I supposed to say to Gene? 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:43.880 She's half the show? And so we were actually rehearsing 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:47.840 the episode where he was found dead in Buffalo. He 0:21:47.880 --> 0:21:50.040 and I had gone to Buffalo on a conference and 0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:53.679 he settled, but I had all the best lines. And 0:21:53.760 --> 0:21:56.120