Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio. All right,
Speaker 1: let me know when you guys are done, write your verses.
Speaker 2: Writing just off the top.
Speaker 1: For me, the best part of the show is the
Speaker 1: pre rold panic of the theme.
Speaker 3: It's a little I'll point to you when it's your turn.
Speaker 4: See, I know everything you say about to say.
Speaker 5: No, it's just that's that frequency is a little daring, right, Yeah,
Speaker 5: I do it as pressure.
Speaker 3: Let's go mm hm. When three people are done, is had.
Speaker 2: Three four?
Speaker 3: Here time, let's go kids, Let's go Dad.
Speaker 6: Suprema so Supremo role called Supremo Supremo roll.
Speaker 3: As I sit here, yeah, singing in this gym.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember a time the roots were almost on PolyGram.
Speaker 7: So Supreva roll called Supremo so so Supremo role.
Speaker 3: My name is Fante.
Speaker 8: Yeah, and I'm not alone because I'm with my peoples
Speaker 8: in the comfort zone.
Speaker 7: Supremo roll call Suprema Supremo role.
Speaker 3: My name is Sugar.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I like this setting.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but it's not as nice yeah as Klie's wedding.
Speaker 3: Supremo So Supremo roll.
Speaker 9: I'm unpaid bill, Yeah, I can't complain. Yeah, it's time
Speaker 9: for stories about purple ring.
Speaker 2: Whoa call.
Speaker 7: Supremo roll call Supremo Supremo roll.
Speaker 4: Like year, Yeah, exes here so much to say. Yeah,
Speaker 4: won't get in the rear.
Speaker 7: I didn't sup.
Speaker 2: Last name, first name is Yeah. How'd y'all get me?
Speaker 2: Yeah to come out of bed?
Speaker 7: Supremo roll call Suprema So Supremo roll call Supremo Supremo,
Speaker 7: roll call Supremo Supremo roll call.
Speaker 1: Wow, that was an interesting choice of versus you guys.
Speaker 1: We did good did Yeah?
Speaker 3: It was that was rather amazing.
Speaker 8: Yeah, man, shout out DJ Khalil for making this happen, man,
Speaker 8: big shots.
Speaker 3: Dj J made this happen.
Speaker 2: Okay, shots, that's FM.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, man, Okay, we are still live in Los Angeles.
Speaker 3: How is it going kids?
Speaker 9: Great is always dead?
Speaker 3: Okay? What was the highlight of your night?
Speaker 9: So nope, you can only tell a great story one
Speaker 9: time from watching you. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Wait a minute. That was a national commercial.
Speaker 4: Yeah oh yeah.
Speaker 3: They kind of presented in a local ways. I thought
Speaker 3: it was just a Tri state area.
Speaker 4: It's like, don't be a dragon lady. Wait, what's that
Speaker 4: non smoking? Don't be a dragon lady?
Speaker 3: Come on, that's a local Joe. We didn't have that.
Speaker 10: One smoking okay, okay, see I thought I thought that
Speaker 10: was just a Philly New York that was everywhere.
Speaker 1: That one in the in the Friday Eggs, that one,
Speaker 1: all right. So of course if you're not familiar, this
Speaker 1: is Quest Love Supreme, the award winning Quest Love Supreme.
Speaker 1: We won so many awards before. I don't know the
Speaker 1: other words that we just all love.
Speaker 5: We swept at the Schmuckies this year.
Speaker 3: I see, how's it going on? Tigelow Ah going good man,
Speaker 3: I'm making it. I guess by the time this comes
Speaker 3: on the festival.
Speaker 8: And Darren, I think hopefully to be over it by
Speaker 8: the time this ship come out.
Speaker 3: But nahunked over seventh. We did it and it was great.
Speaker 1: Nice Steve Jazz World, how's.
Speaker 3: He treating you?
Speaker 5: Everything's good. We got the album you did with David
Speaker 5: Murray that's available now. It's streaming and you know people
Speaker 5: are gonna vote for it for the Grammys and everything.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: I was just I was just having a conversation with
Speaker 1: a recent Quest Love Supreme guest on the show, and
Speaker 1: he suggested, hey, well we do a project together so
Speaker 1: that in Haith Newman, yes, her like not too long,
Speaker 1: Faith Newman, Yes, at the nos birthday party yet down?
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: Pano wants to make something happen Cappin Yeah, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: speed of making it happen, Cavin.
Speaker 3: When were we supposed to make something happen with Bob James?
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, that got pushed puns. Sorry, okay, but I love.
Speaker 4: A quest Love Supreme collaboration a lot throughout the years.
Speaker 3: What's making happen?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: All right, doctor Sesame Street.
Speaker 9: I listened to the David Murray Quest Love record and
Speaker 9: it is awesome.
Speaker 3: It's crazy, it's really good. I'm still discovering stuff.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of samples on its really you just isolate,
Speaker 1: very angry.
Speaker 3: That could be like the next twelve roots albums right there.
Speaker 2: Yeah it's incorrect.
Speaker 3: Four platters, Yes, it's called plumb. What was your logic?
Speaker 1: I wanted to call it Three Pleadians walk into a Bar,
Speaker 1: but of course you did.
Speaker 3: We did include that, right.
Speaker 1: One was called I got the name one song, but
Speaker 1: you know it's Steve. So what's our next project called peach?
Speaker 3: Okay? And what would that be?
Speaker 5: Hopefully Belile you Ray and Doyle Bramhall.
Speaker 3: I like that. I like that, Okay, I'm with that.
Speaker 5: Oh and Elaina Pinder hughes on flute, okay, like a quintet.
Speaker 3: That's what's up? Okay, Peach, I got it. How's how's life?
Speaker 4: Man? Listen?
Speaker 1: It's good also for really like putting in the hard
Speaker 1: work and organizing these Uh. She's sort of our person
Speaker 1: that targets the guests that come on the show.
Speaker 4: Booker.
Speaker 7: Out of the.
Speaker 3: Booker that level. I just feel like, I feel like
Speaker 3: you run this ship.
Speaker 4: That's nice me yes me, okay you flowers, yeahs, you
Speaker 4: know we love you.
Speaker 3: Take this love. Thank you anyway, ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 1: I will say that after are awesome Lisa Cortez episode
Speaker 1: of Quest Love Supreme in which we kind of went
Speaker 1: through the story of the close Butano Cigar outcome of
Speaker 1: where the roots were going to land as far as
Speaker 1: their major label was concerned. If you don't remember, we
Speaker 1: have been, you know, spending all of nineteen ninety three,
Speaker 1: thirty years ago, having showcases and whatnot. The very first
Speaker 1: label that we wanted to sign to, of course, Mercury PolyGram,
Speaker 1: and we were really excited. They took us out to dinner.
Speaker 1: We went to like a Black Sheep Legion video set.
Speaker 1: It was all exciting, and then because of a technicality,
Speaker 1: we wound up on another label. So I kinda see
Speaker 1: this as like an alternative universe.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, like that movie Other Earth.
Speaker 1: This is an alternative universe in which I am talking
Speaker 1: to the former president of the label that I never
Speaker 1: got to sign to. But not that I mean as
Speaker 1: former president of Mercury, Hollo Graham. But he's also been
Speaker 1: a senior executive and also a producer, executive producer and
Speaker 1: a music producer for a lot of the music that
Speaker 1: we have grown up listening to still currently listen to.
Speaker 2: Name it.
Speaker 3: Michael Jackson, Quincy.
Speaker 1: Jones, bon Jovi, Kiss, Whitney Houston, Quinny g Brian McKnight,
Speaker 1: Tony Tony Tony very happy about that reunion.
Speaker 3: By the way, did you see the North Carolina show? No?
Speaker 3: I didn't see that.
Speaker 1: Oh wait, I thought their first they did a test
Speaker 1: show in North Carolina.
Speaker 8: I know there was in October first, which today is
Speaker 8: not Oh I get it.
Speaker 1: But you don't know that in September they did a
Speaker 1: secret show in North Carolina, Right, yeah they did. But
Speaker 1: the only thing about like towards when they start, if
Speaker 1: you don't see the first three shows is all but
Speaker 1: guarantee that they're going to shop the songs in half once.
Speaker 3: They find a rhythm.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, So I saw the set list of what
Speaker 1: their show was and it's way past the roots in
Speaker 1: ll It's like it's damn near three hours.
Speaker 3: Like it's a.
Speaker 1: Well, they start with all the classic filler. Then they
Speaker 1: go into Raphael's songs that he wrote for other people.
Speaker 1: Oh ship, because so he's doing cozy, He's doing.
Speaker 8: What covied that's Covin and cozy.
Speaker 10: I'm sorry as a as a word player, getting my
Speaker 10: sea words mixed these things. Beyonce thing, well, she's she's
Speaker 10: too omni president Like Beyonce is like.
Speaker 3: A air and water. It's like hard to resist.
Speaker 1: And then they go into the solo stuff and then
Speaker 1: they end with the hits. So but of course, you know,
Speaker 1: management stuff's like, uh, can y'all just turn this into
Speaker 1: a two hour sho because your audience is like whatever?
Speaker 3: But anyway, so much.
Speaker 1: With the Tony's Yes, our guest today, I pray has
Speaker 1: a lot of stories about his journey in this music
Speaker 1: business that we love. Please welcome to usself Supreme, the
Speaker 1: one and Only Ed Eckstein, Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2: Pleasure to be here.
Speaker 3: Thank you for being here. Man, it's a long clap.
Speaker 3: We got away for forty seconds clapping. How much for that?
Speaker 4: I guess that. Listen to the show too?
Speaker 3: How are you to day? You listen to the show?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I do. I listened when I walk in the morning. Wow,
Speaker 2: that roll call then.
Speaker 3: Shot right off the damn we knew the jazz guys.
Speaker 1: Gotta I get the feeling you've been telling you about,
Speaker 1: Like we got you out of bed this morning.
Speaker 3: What what is your morning routine? What do you do?
Speaker 1: I like to know what executives and creatives do for
Speaker 1: the first half hour of the morning.
Speaker 3: What's your morning routine?
Speaker 2: I get up, I do a meditation and prayer, and
Speaker 2: they go for a walk. I try to walk, you know,
Speaker 2: close to ten thousand steps for really more like five.
Speaker 3: Right. Hey, I'm with you.
Speaker 2: And I come home, you know, have my breakfast, chill
Speaker 2: with my wife and my son. Okay, you know, just
Speaker 2: get on and get on the computer, you know, do
Speaker 2: my thing.
Speaker 3: I was your son.
Speaker 2: He's twenty two, okay.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And what's your method for meditation? You know we're
Speaker 4: into that here. What's that about?
Speaker 2: Just close my eyes and you think about you know,
Speaker 2: what I can do to better my life and be
Speaker 2: better for the for the world is collective that day,
Speaker 2: you know. Just so yeah, just positivity. Try to be
Speaker 2: as positive as possible.
Speaker 1: You said something, and now now I want to get there.
Speaker 1: Everyone reveal your steps right now? What's on your phone?
Speaker 1: Your steps?
Speaker 3: Do you know how to look at your steps?
Speaker 2: I went to the Gyn's money. I'm gonna win.
Speaker 3: Okay, what is it? You go first?
Speaker 9: Eight three hundred and six.
Speaker 3: I hate you right now? That's mine.
Speaker 1: I told you on a good day. That's why I
Speaker 1: hope they get to like me. Getting above five thousands
Speaker 1: my goal right now.
Speaker 3: I'm nine eighteen.
Speaker 2: That's not gonna.
Speaker 3: I'm a lazy. That's like sometimes in my in my
Speaker 3: hotel all the way, I'll walk twice. Hope I get
Speaker 3: it up to one thousand. What's your step, Steve?
Speaker 5: It says six in and out burgers, eighteen cigarettes.
Speaker 3: I'm at five hundred and forty four steps.
Speaker 4: I'm a twenty six seventy two.
Speaker 3: Ye Let's let's try to get it up to five thousand.
Speaker 3: At least that will help us.
Speaker 4: Okay, were you did you say? Yours?
Speaker 3: I sit nine hundred and eighteen.
Speaker 4: I slept late and use we just gonna do it.
Speaker 3: We just gonna do that.
Speaker 1: But you know, I'm supposed to do at least ten thousand,
Speaker 1: you know, So, like I know for you, and it's
Speaker 1: rare to meet executives. Oftentimes I'll meet executives that are
Speaker 1: more about saving their jobs and submitting their legacy, and
Speaker 1: they don't really seem to be passionate about music or
Speaker 1: music fans. But I definitely know that you are a
Speaker 1: passionate You love music more than.
Speaker 2: Anything in the blood.
Speaker 3: It's almost ird to me. Do you do you find
Speaker 3: that as well?
Speaker 1: Like that executives aren't are mostly there to cross teas
Speaker 1: and dot ies and really not.
Speaker 2: Not all, but a significant portion. Yeah, during my period
Speaker 2: when I was active in it, there was certainly there
Speaker 2: were music guys in there. In the Wall Street takeover happened,
Speaker 2: and it became, you know, sort of an element of
Speaker 2: give me twelve pounds of music to go. You know,
Speaker 2: nobody's really listening to it.
Speaker 1: You know, in my head, I kind of hold like
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven as kind of the Mason Dixon line
Speaker 1: of where hip hop, you know, suddenly realized it's it's
Speaker 1: earning power, and then suddenly it became big business, right
Speaker 1: as opposed to whatever me living in the delusional state
Speaker 1: of Hey, people love music for music and it's an
Speaker 1: artful and that sort of stuff.
Speaker 11: Good luck with that, right well, I know, right, But
Speaker 11: for you on the executive side of things, was there
Speaker 11: a glory period and then was there the Mason Dixon
Speaker 11: line period of like what am I doing here?
Speaker 2: Yes? From the executive side, what got frustrating was in
Speaker 2: those days it was still terrestrial radio largely. That was
Speaker 2: the master that we had to honor. You know, there
Speaker 2: were so many situations where there were acts that you
Speaker 2: loved eta you know, I'd love to try and go
Speaker 2: get after this and break it, but you knew that
Speaker 2: radio wasn't going to play it, and it was you
Speaker 2: had limited resources of what you could spend to make
Speaker 2: things happen, and so to a certain extent, I found
Speaker 2: myself in the position of chasing things that you thought
Speaker 2: were somewhat safer. But you know, not that my instincts
Speaker 2: may have gone in one direction, but the realities of
Speaker 2: the marketplace, and after all, I'm running a business, you know,
Speaker 2: is just another So all.
Speaker 1: Right, I need a five second moment of reflection right now,
Speaker 1: because instantly I'm regretting the decision I made. I'm literally
Speaker 1: sitting here like, wait a minute, if this person was
Speaker 1: at the top of the pyramid, how would of my
Speaker 1: life had turned out. I don't know if this particular
Speaker 1: tortoise in the hair journey it.
Speaker 3: Is for everybody and it's not.
Speaker 1: It was a long, hard thirty years in getting here,
Speaker 1: and I'm glad I'm here. So yes, I will say
Speaker 1: that I don't regret anything, but I will say that
Speaker 1: of anyone that I had dealt with in music, to
Speaker 1: even hear you speak on that level, in my head,
Speaker 1: I'm already like, damn, where's that person when I needed
Speaker 1: them in my career? Because we the reason why I'm
Speaker 1: here is because we had to fit for ourselves. People
Speaker 1: were just like, I don't know, figured it out for yourself,
Speaker 1: So we had to figure it out for ourselves. And
Speaker 1: so yeah, I'm having a moment of Oh, I wonder
Speaker 1: what happened to have we chose well?
Speaker 4: Who knows ed you might he might have been a
Speaker 4: different end in those days too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then I'm gonna ask, were you the same
Speaker 1: ad now that you were thirty years ago.
Speaker 2: Well in some ways yes, but no. But as far
Speaker 2: as you guys were concerned, because I remember vividly Kenya
Speaker 2: I bet you do. Ken YadA Bell was the an
Speaker 2: R guy who was who was actually working for us,
Speaker 2: who who first identified you guys was excited about. He
Speaker 2: worked for Lisa Cortez, so he and Lisa came in
Speaker 2: and said, we're really interested in this band. They said
Speaker 2: the magic words banned to me because when I signed
Speaker 2: the Tonys was at a period when there was a
Speaker 2: lull in black bands, and I come up from that era,
Speaker 2: and I always viewed the Tonys as the last of
Speaker 2: the Mohicans on the R and B band level, but
Speaker 2: of the hip hop generation. I remember vividly seeing them
Speaker 2: play a performance at the Palladium one night in New York,
Speaker 2: and they were killing that night on stage and the
Speaker 2: audience was just dumbfounded, staring into space. And I was
Speaker 2: there with the late great Gary Harris, who was working
Speaker 2: for me at that time, and Gary and I say exactly,
Speaker 2: and Gary and I are saying, I'm look at him, said, gee,
Speaker 2: what's up man? How come nobody's reacting to him? They're
Speaker 2: killing up her? He says, you got to understand some man.
Speaker 2: He said, most of the kids in this audience have
Speaker 2: never seen kids their own age playing a musical instrument.
Speaker 2: I was like, wow, really, and so that that was
Speaker 2: the reality of it. So when I heard about you guys,
Speaker 2: you know, the combination of you know, Tarik and a band,
Speaker 2: I said, this is interesting to me. I always remember
Speaker 2: that the showcase was the coldest hell night in SI
Speaker 2: studios myself half to death. I had a clause in
Speaker 2: my contract in those days, because I'm from LA that
Speaker 2: if it got to single digits in New York I
Speaker 2: could I would turn around and go home. I mean,
Speaker 2: and if I was walking through time times square, the
Speaker 2: time and temperature, you know of the sign of the world,
Speaker 2: if I looked up and there was you know, three
Speaker 2: point fifty two eight degrees, I'd walk back to my
Speaker 2: office say, Chris booked me, I'm going home. And I
Speaker 2: think that night was one of those nights, you know,
Speaker 2: at least it got me to stick around to see
Speaker 2: the band. Thank you. Yeah, it's cool.
Speaker 3: Thanks, brilliant though, that's brilliant.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know to put that in there, like that's
Speaker 4: so interesting, Like did somebody else tell you once, and
Speaker 4: you know, and when you do a new contract.
Speaker 2: No, because i'd worked, I'd spent enough time back He's
Speaker 2: because I went to high school back he's and I
Speaker 2: was working for Arista when I was at Ariston and
Speaker 2: I didn't have that. Clive wasn't playing that.
Speaker 3: I knew other name at x sign.
Speaker 1: Of course, when you read OM credits, I saw your
Speaker 1: name on like Vanessa Williams's projects and the Tony's and whatnot.
Speaker 3: But what was the road that led to your president?
Speaker 1: Like how long did it take from the moment you
Speaker 1: entered the mailroom to presidency?
Speaker 3: How long was that?
Speaker 2: I started at PolyGram in nineteen eighty seven. Dick Asher
Speaker 2: was the president of PolyGram in those days, and he
Speaker 2: because PolyGram, just for a little inside baseball was a
Speaker 2: Dutch owned Phillips Dutch owned company based in based in Hilversom, Holland,
Speaker 2: with a with a European base in London, headquarters in
Speaker 2: New York, with satellite offices in Nashville and Los Angeles,
Speaker 2: but the creative centers were largely London in New York,
Speaker 2: so let's just extended Los Angeles. In those days, poly
Speaker 2: Phonogram UK would sign acts exclusively for UK and America
Speaker 2: wouldn't have the rights to the Dire Straits was one
Speaker 2: of those bands. Metallica was a banned like that. They
Speaker 2: weren't signed to PolyGram for the world. And so when
Speaker 2: a guy called Dick Asher took over, who would run
Speaker 2: a CBS role When when Dick took over PolyGram, part
Speaker 2: of the edict was to sign things for the world.
Speaker 2: So and they want up their presence as a West
Speaker 2: Coast creative center. So there was a head of A
Speaker 2: and R at PolyGram at the time. A guy called
Speaker 2: Dick wynd Gate shout out to Dick Richards, Yeah and
Speaker 2: uh so. Asher apparently had had a thing in his
Speaker 2: mind of who he was going to hire for this
Speaker 2: West Coast situation. But wing Gate and some of the
Speaker 2: A and R guys in the New York office felt
Speaker 2: he was going old, they want somebody younger.
Speaker 3: And I was going to ask you, is he well liked?
Speaker 3: Who only know the name Dick Asher?
Speaker 1: Because if you're a fan of liner notes, uh I
Speaker 1: believe on fear of Black Planet, Public Enemy wrote and
Speaker 1: fuck Dick Asher. We got Bill Stephanie watching our backs
Speaker 1: and I was like, well, what does that mean?
Speaker 3: Dick was cool or he was just an executive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Dick was cool. It was great to me. Once again,
Speaker 2: sidebar story that I was having a conversation with my
Speaker 2: pops at one point after PolyGram had offered me the deal.
Speaker 2: You made me an offer, made me my offer, and
Speaker 2: I said, well, tell me, baby, tell me about the deal.
Speaker 2: I told him, ran the deal down to him, and
Speaker 2: when he sat in digest its, damn, sounds like you
Speaker 2: found old fashioned nigga lover. So those are kind of
Speaker 2: hard to find these days. Dick was great to me.
Speaker 2: Dick was absolutely wonderful, you know, and afford to be
Speaker 2: a great opportunity there.
Speaker 3: I see. All right, So what where were you born?
Speaker 2: Born here in l A, all right, Saint John's Hospital,
Speaker 2: Santa Monica.
Speaker 3: Do you remember your very first musical memory?
Speaker 2: I do? What is it being? My parents were having
Speaker 2: a party. We were living I was born in Santa Monica.
Speaker 2: We were living in Hollywood. My parents were having a party.
Speaker 2: I was apparently like two or three years old. They
Speaker 2: were having a party in the house and a whole
Speaker 2: bunch of bird was there. Billie Holiday and different people
Speaker 2: were at the crib, and uh, this is all going
Speaker 2: on on the house.
Speaker 12: You know, Wait, you were in this lifetime when Charlie Bird.
Speaker 2: Parker was was a life.
Speaker 10: Yeah, and you've seen or you've been in the presidence
Speaker 10: of Billie Holliday once is basically, But the story is
Speaker 10: even if you were too.
Speaker 2: My memory is because we had a two story house
Speaker 2: and the second floor. I somehow crawled out of my
Speaker 2: bed and there was you know, the second story and
Speaker 2: the you know, the things that hold them, and I
Speaker 2: was looking down at the party. My parents said they
Speaker 2: looked up and they could feel a presence, and all
Speaker 2: of a sudden they looked up and there was my
Speaker 2: little face looking down at everybody. You know. I was
Speaker 2: attracted to the music and the noise and the cacophony.
Speaker 3: And Billie Holliday.
Speaker 1: All right, I mean more stories of your life, Like
Speaker 1: give me a version of your childhood in which you
Speaker 1: don't know that God's in the room with you. Like, oh,
Speaker 1: my parents once told me that whatever I went to
Speaker 1: the school with Jackie Jackson, Well that's a bad example.
Speaker 2: But the best way I could answer that is just
Speaker 2: my dad was an avid golfer because he was on
Speaker 2: the road all the time, and when he'd come home
Speaker 2: from the road. He played golf a lot. And one
Speaker 2: of the things that was always fun was we'd come
Speaker 2: home from school, you know, because in our house you
Speaker 2: had like a little bar sort of speakeasy area where
Speaker 2: he used to chill after he played golf, and he
Speaker 2: never knew when we come home was going to be
Speaker 2: in the crib with him. We played golf with that day,
Speaker 2: had days where he'd come home and he was there
Speaker 2: with Smokey or there with Marvin Gaye, or there with
Speaker 2: Sean Connery.
Speaker 3: This is when he was on Motown, right.
Speaker 2: I know he signed in the mid sixties. Cool, but yeah,
Speaker 2: this is this is mid sixties stuff. I'm like twelve
Speaker 2: thirteen years old at that point. So just little things
Speaker 2: like that. The other aspects of it, there were, there
Speaker 2: were moments because the whole Billy ecksteinness of it all
Speaker 2: was he was just Pops. But you know the fact
Speaker 2: that you know, people, my friend, my kid's parents reacted
Speaker 2: more to him than you know, anything else, you know.
Speaker 2: And one of things that Pop's always tried to do
Speaker 2: to my brothers and I for my brothers and I
Speaker 2: was demystify the business but also sort of put a
Speaker 2: vibe on it to make us understand that although people
Speaker 2: kind of went buck wild when when he was around,
Speaker 2: that we had to realize that he was no better
Speaker 2: or no worse than anybody else than the people across
Speaker 2: the street who had you know, regular quote unquote regular jobs.
Speaker 2: His just happened to be in lights and people got
Speaker 2: excited about it. So that was really that was sort
Speaker 2: of a God moment in its own way of just
Speaker 2: you know that how life was. You know, Pops is
Speaker 2: just you know, Pops, so many brothers and you have
Speaker 2: there's seven of us. Where do you fall? I fall
Speaker 2: in the middle. It's five boys, two girls, two older
Speaker 2: three older brothers, two of whom are deceased now, and
Speaker 2: then then me and then my little brother and two
Speaker 2: younger sisters.
Speaker 3: Any of all those siblings they go into music anyway.
Speaker 2: Well, my brother guys a producer and a manager, and
Speaker 2: and my youngest sister, our youngest sister, Gene is a singer.
Speaker 3: As as a child or as a teen.
Speaker 1: Would other adults annoy you if they start singing to
Speaker 1: you like Moody's mood or anything like that, Your dad.
Speaker 2: Is really sort of get to us, was you know,
Speaker 2: collective because he was on the road so much, you know,
Speaker 2: and the only time we really talked to him was
Speaker 2: on the road was on Sunday nights. You know, hear
Speaker 2: from him. You know, Dad, I hit a home run
Speaker 2: on Tuesday by blah blah, you're that kind of shit.
Speaker 2: So when he was home, there were very valuable, cherished moments.
Speaker 2: If we went out to dinner as a family, invariably
Speaker 2: there's somebody to come. Ah, mister b I saw you
Speaker 2: in Moleen, Illinois in nineteen fifty one, you know, and
Speaker 2: we're trying to talk to Pops. And you know, we
Speaker 2: were sort of taught slash train that you know that
Speaker 2: the fans are the lifeblood of you know, of us
Speaker 2: having the ability to live the lives that we live.
Speaker 2: So just kind of smile your way through it, you know,
Speaker 2: be polite, be nice, and Pops would handle it from there.
Speaker 2: And if you if they stayed a little too long
Speaker 2: to say, hey baby, I'm trying to have dinner with
Speaker 2: my family here, you know, and then if they stayed long,
Speaker 2: said get the fuck out of here.
Speaker 1: You know, I was I was going to issue a
Speaker 1: mandate like none of you do there I go reference.
Speaker 5: So any what if you got us to do it,
Speaker 5: then we'd do it where you'd want us to do
Speaker 5: it so much.
Speaker 4: Did you have peers in that way though, is as
Speaker 4: you were part of this kind of music musical family.
Speaker 4: Did you have other kids that kind of felt the
Speaker 4: pains that you were going to through because their parents
Speaker 4: weren't one tour.
Speaker 2: And ish But we're I grew up in Sino, California,
Speaker 2: So we're the only black family there till the Jackson.
Speaker 2: There are people and so the Jackson's got.
Speaker 4: There, Okay, So y'all were there first, right because he's.
Speaker 2: Your dad, Yeah, and so any of the Sino at
Speaker 2: that point it still is. In the San Fernando Valley
Speaker 2: in Cina was basically two lane dirt road with orange
Speaker 2: groves and a lot of almond trees and shit, And
Speaker 2: then somewhere in the late late fifties became a bit
Speaker 2: of a go West young man syndrome. A lot of
Speaker 2: folks moving out to the hills there and a significant
Speaker 2: port because with the expanse of the film and TV
Speaker 2: business out here, and a lot of the folks that
Speaker 2: moved to that part of the valley were business people,
Speaker 2: largely Jewish from New York, from other parts of the
Speaker 2: country and certain parts of the city here were redlined
Speaker 2: that you know, certain Jews and Blacks couldn't live in
Speaker 2: certain areas. So the valley became the area of development,
Speaker 2: you know, of of principal development, and the line of
Speaker 2: demarcation in the San Fernanda Valley is in tro Boulevard.
Speaker 2: And a lot of the kids I grew up with were,
Speaker 2: you know, Mo Austin's kids, Eddie Rosenblatt kids, different shiz
Speaker 2: show biz kids, you know, making movies of the selves
Speaker 2: as Steely Dan said, right, and don't give a fuck
Speaker 2: about nobody else.
Speaker 4: So so they were your peers, but they really weren't
Speaker 4: your pee.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there were peers, and since their parents weren't performers.
Speaker 2: But you know, there were some my older brothers, like
Speaker 2: my second and third my second oldest brother went to
Speaker 2: high school with Sally Field and uh and cheer. So yeah,
Speaker 2: she went to school. Had had a moment about this
Speaker 2: was called fifteen years ago. It was during the the
Speaker 2: Kobe shack Laker years. It was one of the playoffs
Speaker 2: championship games. Sally Field happened to be standing in front
Speaker 2: of me at that game and in the stand. Since
Speaker 2: I tapped her on the shoulder and said she said hello,
Speaker 2: and said you went to high school with my brothers,
Speaker 2: and she kind of looked gave me a quizzical look
Speaker 2: of like, you know, to the sun Town. I was like,
Speaker 2: wait a minute, no, none of you motherfuckers said right right,
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you're kid. And Ron's brother.
Speaker 3: Instantly new so well, actually, I asked, okay. I asked
Speaker 3: the Jacksons the same question, but now that I know
Speaker 3: that you were there first, First of all, were you
Speaker 3: aware of the situation that you were placed in? I
Speaker 3: asked them what is it to be?
Speaker 1: Because I, you know, I always considered the Jacksons the
Speaker 1: first post civil rights result, like all that that between
Speaker 1: you know, reconstruction, slavery and civil rights.
Speaker 3: And then you get to this point post sixty eight.
Speaker 1: Where the idea of freedom or the idea of pursuit
Speaker 1: of happiness whatever, and the Jacksons sort.
Speaker 3: Of took that. And I asked him, like, what was
Speaker 3: it like.
Speaker 1: Navigating in those first five years in Encino in Los Angeles?
Speaker 1: You know, I've seen the photos. You guys have roles,
Speaker 1: voices and fancy cars, see and roaster and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: And Marlon was like yeah, and no routinely got stopped
Speaker 1: by cops and all and stuff.
Speaker 3: So were you aware that was like proceed with caution
Speaker 3: or was.
Speaker 2: It like yeah, very aware, partially because how we were raised.
Speaker 2: You know, my dad was very active in the civil
Speaker 2: rights movement, and the conversation around the dinner table or
Speaker 2: all meals actually was either showbiz or the civil rights
Speaker 2: move because civil rights movement played out on TV every
Speaker 2: night on Walter Cronkite and stuff like that, and Pops
Speaker 2: was was close with Doctor King's, close with Malcolm. So
Speaker 2: as a result, we were very aware of who we
Speaker 2: were and what was up, you know, my parents pretty much.
Speaker 2: That was one of the things they hammered home to us.
Speaker 2: You know, don't for one minute start thinking you're white
Speaker 2: open here. You know, it's this is the reality of
Speaker 2: your existence, you know.
Speaker 4: Which you must have confused people a little bit visually
Speaker 4: as well.
Speaker 2: Well. And I realized that some of that too was
Speaker 2: you know, because there's a certain amount of ethnic ambiguity,
Speaker 2: you know, inherent to uh, to the suntan right and
Speaker 2: then you know, and and the hair at the time
Speaker 2: and uh and as a result, you know, there's but
Speaker 2: there was always a kid every year in school, the
Speaker 2: one stepped to one of my brothers and nigger, you know,
Speaker 2: he pop somebody in the face and then uh, and
Speaker 2: then you'd get sent to the principal's office and then
Speaker 2: they said, well, we're gonna call your parents. And you
Speaker 2: didn't want my mom coming down. You know, Mom was
Speaker 2: straight out of Georgia, Thomas and Georgia. She wouldn't have it.
Speaker 2: So she was like, you know, if they don't hit
Speaker 2: those people, if they don't punch them, you know, when
Speaker 2: they get home, they's go be their ass. That was
Speaker 2: that was that was our reality. But yeah, the Jackson's
Speaker 2: period was was cool because I that's when I first
Speaker 2: met them and John McClain. During that period of time,
Speaker 2: I was. I was. I went to a boarding school
Speaker 2: in western Pennsylvania, a place called the Kiski School outside
Speaker 2: of Pittsburgh. Actually, Jake, your your producer, went to one
Speaker 2: of rival schools. So I was at the school Pennsylvania
Speaker 2: and one of my really close friends here was was
Speaker 2: screwing up in school here and he got sent to
Speaker 2: a private school, private day school here in town, which
Speaker 2: was where Motown sent to Jackson's once they could no
Speaker 2: longer go to public school here, a place called the
Speaker 2: Walton School. So when I come home on vacations, our
Speaker 2: vacations were out of sink with my friends vacations here.
Speaker 2: So ostensibly my days would end up being spend either
Speaker 2: hanging out with my mom because Pops was on the road,
Speaker 2: hanging out mom going doing what mom was gonna do,
Speaker 2: or sit at home and just listening to records all day,
Speaker 2: which I did a fair share of that, and play
Speaker 2: my guitar. But my buddy was like, Doude, once you
Speaker 2: come to the come down to my school and hang
Speaker 2: out with us. Jackson's are here, blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: All the honeys are on the Jackson's hard And I
Speaker 2: was in an all boys school, so I mean I'm in.
Speaker 2: So I started going to show up to show up
Speaker 2: on the campus. Yeah, we did, and play ball and
Speaker 2: we played ball all day and that's where I met
Speaker 2: met those guys. And Mike was Mike was little, you know,
Speaker 2: chasing insects and rats around.
Speaker 3: Right, sounds about right. It sounds about right.
Speaker 1: What was your Do you remember the first album you
Speaker 1: ever purchased.
Speaker 2: First album I ever purchased was Meet the Beatles? First
Speaker 2: single ever, which was My Girl.
Speaker 5: Where's the family record collection?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Where is the family record collection?
Speaker 2: I had? I sold my vinyl about fifteen years ago.
Speaker 2: I had, you know, fifteen thousand pieces sold.
Speaker 3: Okay on behalf of.
Speaker 2: On pay bill. Yeah, long story, long story, but yeah,
Speaker 2: I sold it and then, uh, mom and Dad's collection.
Speaker 2: I still have a bunch of it, you know, but
Speaker 2: they had a fair share, not a lot. Some of
Speaker 2: this guy sold. I got a great story that we
Speaker 2: had a lady who was a housekeeper for us in
Speaker 2: the late fifties when Ray Charles was blown up with
Speaker 2: all the Atlantic records, and mom and pops loved those records,
Speaker 2: so they had all the Ray Charles album you know,
Speaker 2: the early Ray Charles records. They came home from tour
Speaker 2: at one point, went to get to put their Ray
Speaker 2: Charles joints on. They weren't there, and they're like, where's
Speaker 2: the records in this one housekeeper, lady Gussie Gussie Gussie,
Speaker 2: you know, pinched the records. So she she she left,
Speaker 2: and Mom and Dad told us, look, all's forgiven, just
Speaker 2: bring the records back, you know, you gotta have your
Speaker 2: job back. No, she didn't want the job back. She
Speaker 2: kept the fucking records.
Speaker 4: Her family.
Speaker 3: Right now, now I got to check my collection.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so Jesus Christ, when you sell a record collection,
Speaker 1: that means you're really that music is in the rear
Speaker 1: view mirror.
Speaker 2: Well I ever, I just digitized everything. But yeah, I
Speaker 2: mean I.
Speaker 3: Love you know, I need tangible proof, tactile thing I did.
Speaker 5: Something in the end of Man is judged by his
Speaker 5: record collection pretty much.
Speaker 3: People come in my house, That's the first thing they do.
Speaker 1: They like, what are you listening to?
Speaker 3: That sort of thing, and you know, look at stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was known for it because when I used
Speaker 2: to go to go to Kiski school is called Kiskie.
Speaker 2: When I kis come up with the holidays, I always
Speaker 2: have three or four foot lockers filled with vinyl, filled
Speaker 2: with records. They took me so all the kids school
Speaker 2: do me as a record guy? You know? Can I
Speaker 2: ask a little follow? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Good question.
Speaker 5: So the first two records you bought, The Beatles and
Speaker 5: My Girl.
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 5: How did those first to purchase shape your taste in
Speaker 5: music and career?
Speaker 2: I was the Beatles on Ed Sullivan kid. You know,
Speaker 2: when I saw the Beatles and Ed Sullivan I was like,
Speaker 2: I want to play guitar. I wanted to play drums first,
Speaker 2: but moms wouldn't happen it, right, I ain't gonna have
Speaker 2: all that noise over in my house, So so I
Speaker 2: play guitar, and then I got a guitar, you know,
Speaker 2: later that year for my birthday. Don't play well, but
Speaker 2: I collect him pretty well. But my son actually is
Speaker 2: this prolific player, prodigious player. And my girl was just
Speaker 2: because I love the single, you know, the lick and
Speaker 2: all that stuff. Yeah, yeah, And I always tell the story.
Speaker 2: People say, what do you sing? You sing like your dad.
Speaker 2: So I must have been like eleven, and I was
Speaker 2: singing my girl in the show. My dad opened the
Speaker 2: shower to stop singing. Boy closed the shower and walked away.
Speaker 2: Billy XI tells me not to sing. I'm not going
Speaker 2: to sing.
Speaker 1: I was going to say, that's where the billy he
Speaker 1: ain't really works the prince. So I would assume being
Speaker 1: a young teenager in the late sixties early seventies, uh,
Speaker 1: and being in the position that you're in, you've been
Speaker 1: privy to many a concert experience. Can you give me
Speaker 1: your top three concert going experiences as a kid?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, kid meaning under twenty one or just whenever.
Speaker 1: All right, well, give me your your what's the first
Speaker 1: concert you went to? That's not your dad, but even then,
Speaker 1: I'm certain that your dad's done festivals and stuff you've seen.
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, so you gotta include your dad.
Speaker 2: I want to see Marvin gay at what's now a
Speaker 2: club called Cerroo's with my older brother when he was
Speaker 2: when he was in college. I was like eight or
Speaker 2: nine years old, pre beard Marvin Gaye, yeah, when he
Speaker 2: still still suits, you know, yeah, stubborn kind of fellow
Speaker 2: Mark early.
Speaker 3: Was it just like man? Or did you it?
Speaker 2: Because I loved all that shit?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I loved all And there used to be
Speaker 2: a theater out in the valley in Woodland Hills called
Speaker 2: the Valley Music Theater. It was one of those theaters
Speaker 2: in the round. Valley Music Theater used to do shows.
Speaker 2: And this was before the rock and roll industrial complex,
Speaker 2: as we've come to know it came to Puish and
Speaker 2: came to life. And in those days, all this baby
Speaker 2: rock bands were out here making records, but there was
Speaker 2: really they're having hits, but there was nowhere for them
Speaker 2: to play. They weren't touring, so they would do a
Speaker 2: lot of promotion shows for local pop station r KRLA,
Speaker 2: and so Carol A did a show at the Valley
Speaker 2: Music Theater of like the Doors, The Birds, The Buffalo, Springfield,
Speaker 2: three other bands I'm not thinking of right now. I
Speaker 2: remember cutting going out one night, you know, on my
Speaker 2: bike riding to the game. My parents were work. My
Speaker 2: dad was on the road. Mom was with him going
Speaker 2: to that gig and then you know, down the road,
Speaker 2: you know once a, you know, professionally Stones nineteen seventy
Speaker 2: three at the Forum.
Speaker 3: Oh se you saw a post exile show.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, absolutely. When they did the tour with the
Speaker 2: Lotus Flower that opened, you know, yeah opened like they
Speaker 2: opened a honky talk woman and Mick was hanging off
Speaker 2: the front front Pedes tour. Yeah, it was great.
Speaker 3: Was Stevie opening for them?
Speaker 2: Maybe Stevie was with Ray Parker and Ali and the band.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, and uh Denise Williams.
Speaker 2: Do yep, exactly.
Speaker 3: She She gave a lot of debaucherous stories about that.
Speaker 2: And then Bootsy Bootsy at the Forum nineteen seventy eight,
Speaker 2: you know, post the year, yeah, post post the Pfunk
Speaker 2: Earth tour, but just Bootsy play the thing, you know,
Speaker 2: with uh, you know, with Macio doing the the opening
Speaker 2: high Bootsy, you know, you know, the place, the whole
Speaker 2: forum was just shaken. It was amazing.
Speaker 1: So by the mid seventies or even in the late sixties,
Speaker 1: are you trying to figure out what your path or
Speaker 1: what your goal in life was like? And I'm certain
Speaker 1: everyone asked you, like, and what do you want to
Speaker 1: be when you grew Like, all right, so when you
Speaker 1: were twelve, what did you want to be when you
Speaker 1: grew up?
Speaker 2: I wanted to pitch for the Dodgers. I want to
Speaker 2: be in the Black Sandy Kofax.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, this was up. So when you were in
Speaker 3: tenth grade fifteen sixteen, did that change?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I still wanted me Cofax, but I was mourned
Speaker 2: to me. I was also into music at that point,
Speaker 2: and in those days, the Twain hadn't met yet. Where
Speaker 2: you know, basically jocks were jocks, and you know, it
Speaker 2: was very much sort of beer frat shit, you know,
Speaker 2: whereas music was hipper, you know, and the girls were there.
Speaker 2: And so I was like, yeah, I don't know, sports
Speaker 2: things cool, but no, and then it's certain when I
Speaker 2: got to college it all sort of went up and smoked.
Speaker 2: What kind of smoke, indo smoke.
Speaker 3: Yes. By the time you got out of high school,
Speaker 3: Uh huh, would you say, then, that's when you saw
Speaker 3: your path too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I knew I pretty much wanted to pursue something
Speaker 2: in the music business because right out of high school
Speaker 2: I did not want to go to college. Immediately. I
Speaker 2: wanted to take the you know, the bridge year as
Speaker 2: they called them in those days. Okay, and my parents
Speaker 2: weren't having that, you know, my parents were immediately what
Speaker 2: college was this Boston University?
Speaker 3: Oh shit?
Speaker 2: Okay, So my parents weren't having it. You know, there
Speaker 2: was a striver thing and all that stuff, and if
Speaker 2: you go to Europe it means you're never coming back
Speaker 2: to college. Blah blah blah. So my interest was music.
Speaker 2: You know, I figured, you know, I love my parents deally,
Speaker 2: but I wanted to get as far away from them
Speaker 2: as possible, which is la. I went to Boston, and
Speaker 2: Boston had a very thriving music scene in those days.
Speaker 2: That's it still does, you know, significant college population. So
Speaker 2: I just immersed myself in that.
Speaker 3: It's kept me a live.
Speaker 2: Used to walk down the street. Aerosmith was a local band.
Speaker 2: They're playing in front of the student union. Jay gilesman
Speaker 2: Peter Wolf was still on the radio in Boston. Giles
Speaker 2: band was playing.
Speaker 3: You got to witness these people when they were just upstarts.
Speaker 2: To see Aerosmith every freaking day, it seemed, playing on
Speaker 2: Commonwealth Avenue in front of the BU student Union, you know,
Speaker 2: doing the same stick that they did. You know, a
Speaker 2: zillion years later and cut to nineteen seventy three, seventy four.
Speaker 2: I'm here back home in LA I'm driving down the
Speaker 2: freeway and I'm listening to a rock station k Los
Speaker 2: and dream On plays and your dream. I have that
Speaker 2: moment where they called something here's why do I know
Speaker 2: that song? I know it's from somewhere. It was so
Speaker 2: out of context. And when when the guy fys, oh,
Speaker 2: there are new bad boys from Boston Aerosmith, I was like,
Speaker 2: oh shit, those motherfuckers got So.
Speaker 3: There have been a few guests on our show.
Speaker 1: What earlier you mentioned a and m exact oh John
Speaker 1: McClean that we always miss so you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: we've had guests on the show, notably Lenny Kravitz telling
Speaker 1: me of a period especially like.
Speaker 3: Between seventy five.
Speaker 1: In eighty one, eighty two in which kind of black Hollywood,
Speaker 1: black young Holly would That world was so small that
Speaker 1: you had to know the Carrie Gordy's, the Cravis's, the Medina's,
Speaker 1: like anybody in Apollo. Were you ever sort of associated
Speaker 1: or inducted in that circle? Because everyone seems to have
Speaker 1: known each other. We can never get John McClean on
Speaker 1: the show. And I'm mad as hell.
Speaker 2: I knew people, I knew them, but I didn't hang
Speaker 2: you know, I was in it, but not of it
Speaker 2: because I had my own little sort of world at
Speaker 2: that point, and that was earlier part of seventy five.
Speaker 2: I was already working for Quincy by then. But you know,
Speaker 2: seventy two to seventy three period, that's when I first
Speaker 2: got in the game as a writer. That's when I
Speaker 2: first started doing writing for Soul magazine at the time.
Speaker 3: You wrote for Soul.
Speaker 2: That was my first gig.
Speaker 3: Shit, you know how much money I just put down
Speaker 3: for back issues of Soul? That is crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Actually, the way I ended up there was I
Speaker 2: was there was a kid that I grew up with
Speaker 2: in my neighborhood, a guy called David Guest. David lived
Speaker 2: somewhat infamy as the guy was married somewhat.
Speaker 3: Yeah sure, and U wait, what don't you family?
Speaker 2: And David and I grew up, grew up Ansino together,
Speaker 2: and uh, you know he was he was a record
Speaker 2: troll too. I see David a lot in the music stores.
Speaker 2: We had different pursuits because I was the guitar player.
Speaker 2: I was into gitar you know, guitar rock stuff. David
Speaker 2: was was into girl groups and ship. So we had
Speaker 2: this thing, you know, mississ and whoever got on first
Speaker 2: would pull the other along. So David was writing for
Speaker 2: Soul at that point, and uh he.
Speaker 3: He wrote for Soul magazine. Well, okay, wait for it.
Speaker 2: So so I used to tag along with him to
Speaker 2: shows and stuff because in those days l A the
Speaker 2: sort of deal here was like Monday nights stuff would
Speaker 2: happen at the Whiskey, Tuesday night was opening is at
Speaker 2: the Troubadour. Wednesdays with the Roxy Roxy was opened. By
Speaker 2: Thursday night would be a total experience down the hood
Speaker 2: and from Friday Friday Saturday, Friday Friday Saturday night would
Speaker 2: be concerts. So I would tag with David and as
Speaker 2: and in those days the press was treated with a
Speaker 2: certain level of dare I say respect or cater to.
Speaker 2: And so I would, I would, I would, I would
Speaker 2: hang with my man and get in the rooms, and
Speaker 2: you know, obviously be in this tall tall dude, tall
Speaker 2: black dude in the rooms. There weren't a lot of
Speaker 2: us there. So as a result, one of the things
Speaker 2: that happened was I would see the shows with David.
Speaker 2: And David could hardly write his name, let alone write
Speaker 2: a story. And because I'd gone to a school that
Speaker 2: you know, English was you know, put upon us, I
Speaker 2: wrote all his stories. It wasn't like it was exactly
Speaker 2: true joints. I wrote his joints. So one day David
Speaker 2: had gotten hired by London Records to work with Al
Speaker 2: Green for Hot with High and UH, and he went
Speaker 2: into Regina and Regina and the editor at the time,
Speaker 2: he said, I'm leaving. I'm going to do this, blah blah, David.
Speaker 2: We don't want you to leave. We'll need the stuff
Speaker 2: so much, all that ship, you know, on and on.
Speaker 2: David says, well, you like my stuff so much, meet
Speaker 2: the guy who's been writing it, and and from stage
Speaker 2: left here I come and uh, and they signed me
Speaker 2: something and I wrote a couple you know, I wrote,
Speaker 2: I wrote for him for about a year. That is crazy.
Speaker 1: Okay, So you mentioned those clubs, and this is what
Speaker 1: I want to know. So my period of la obviously,
Speaker 1: I came after I came in on the tail end
Speaker 1: of whatever the former scene was, where like Sunset Boulevard
Speaker 1: was sort of a safe right well, it was also
Speaker 1: the Death Road period, so say after ninety eight, it
Speaker 1: was more you know anyway, you know what I'm trying
Speaker 1: to get at.
Speaker 3: But if you are wanting to hang with like where
Speaker 3: it's hip and your people's like, is the Total Experience
Speaker 3: club the only option in town?
Speaker 2: Mavericks Flats another club I've heard of that?
Speaker 3: Now, where's that at?
Speaker 2: Right down the street from on crnscheall right down the
Speaker 2: street from when the Total Experience.
Speaker 3: Was so it was no thing to hang on Crenshaw
Speaker 3: in the seventies or in the eighties.
Speaker 2: It was well, well, Mavericks and Total Experience in the
Speaker 2: eighties maybe the Comedy Act theater. Okay, you know there
Speaker 2: was stuff to do there.
Speaker 3: Comedy Act is where like Robin Harrison.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, that's how I signed up.
Speaker 3: Damn, that's right, you signed Robin Harris.
Speaker 2: I got that.
Speaker 1: So for you, though, were you an open format fan,
Speaker 1: as in Okay, I'm gonna see Arrismith one night and
Speaker 1: the next night, I'm gonna see Rufus next night.
Speaker 2: Absolutely country, whatever the case may be. You know, I
Speaker 2: get it.
Speaker 1: Were you at all and see the La punk scene
Speaker 1: like not much, not much, so you didn't see like
Speaker 1: bands like X or nothing.
Speaker 2: I did see X, did see Missing Persons, Chili Peppers
Speaker 2: with the Chili Peppers, So.
Speaker 1: We were like those pre skoy Fish bony post punk
Speaker 1: band Where would they.
Speaker 2: Play Madam Wongs Madame Woks was a Chinese restaurant on
Speaker 2: on Wilshire Boulevard, Don Don Brentwood, Borderline, Brentwood, Santa Monica,
Speaker 2: and then also there was Madame Wongs downtown. They would
Speaker 2: play there, or the star Wood, which was at Los
Speaker 2: Sienega in Santa Monica Boulevard. Isn't that still a or
Speaker 2: of Creston Heights and Santa Minchael Boulevard. It's not there anymore.
Speaker 2: I think it's been developed into like a mini mall
Speaker 2: or something. But that was a place where Van Halen
Speaker 2: emerged from, and I remember seeing Clinton do the Uncle
Speaker 2: Jam Tour there, Uncle Jam Jam Show there, Funkadelic show.
Speaker 3: Okay, you mentioned working for Quincy. What was your first
Speaker 3: industry get?
Speaker 2: Well, they paid me any money or just period because
Speaker 2: where you start soul music thing and then also soul
Speaker 2: magazine thing. And also I had a gig at Rogers
Speaker 2: and Collen one summer PR from Big Time PR from
Speaker 2: here Intown. They were looking after Stacks, uh, and the
Speaker 2: guy who was who was the head publicist there, a
Speaker 2: guy called Sandy Friedman. Sandy hired me to do some
Speaker 2: writing for them. I was working in the mailroom. Actually
Speaker 2: Deanie Parker, who was ahead of PR for for Stacks,
Speaker 2: recommended me for this job. Al Bell recommended for the
Speaker 2: job actually in the mail room at Rogers and Cowen,
Speaker 2: and Uh, I was you know, I was token black kid.
Speaker 2: Did they hired because they had a black account And
Speaker 2: so I was there and did that for a minute.
Speaker 1: And you wait, guys, we we just had a guest
Speaker 1: on the show that also started out as PR and remote.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I was trying to get mine. Have you
Speaker 3: ran into him in circles before? Okay, now I get it,
Speaker 3: I get it.
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, so you so the time, did.
Speaker 3: You think you're going to start as a publicist.
Speaker 2: Or I kind of was that. I mean, Quincy initially
Speaker 2: hired me. That's pretty much what I was there to do.
Speaker 2: You know, I was there to sort of blow up.
Speaker 2: He called me a pigmy stretcher. He said, go stretch
Speaker 2: some fucking pigmies and that's Quincy pylons. Yeah, so he
Speaker 2: hired me to as he said, I'll make the music,
Speaker 2: you make the no and uh and that that was
Speaker 2: kind of what I did. So, Sarah, you basically do
Speaker 2: pr marketing and sort of keep an eye on his
Speaker 2: interest at the record company. And I was floating around
Speaker 2: the n M a lot people looking at me like,
Speaker 2: who is this nigga? What's he doing here? What's he doing?
Speaker 3: And this was it.
Speaker 2: This is for Quest Records, Quincy Jones Productions.
Speaker 3: So it was just like doing the sounds and stuff
Speaker 3: like that period or body heat, body heat.
Speaker 1: So he the reason why he did a really random
Speaker 1: guest on Soul Train, like with the brothers Johnson is my.
Speaker 2: Brother playing drums, my little brother playing drums. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: guys playing drums.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, oh my god. Oh I'm sorry now
Speaker 3: to watch it. What are your relationships like?
Speaker 1: Because I know now for instans like there's former interns
Speaker 1: of mine at the Tonight show that then interned that
Speaker 1: record labels and maybe in a year or two they'll
Speaker 1: figure out, Okay, my n R, my publicist or whatever.
Speaker 3: There's a system to go through.
Speaker 1: Are are you going through a road less traveled? Like
Speaker 1: in terms of publicity, like how do you know who
Speaker 1: to market Quincy Jones?
Speaker 3: Too? Like do you know the people at People magazine?
Speaker 3: Do you know if Rolling Stone's into them?
Speaker 2: It was at that point it was just pull out
Speaker 2: the gun and shoot where you may, you know, good luck,
Speaker 2: you know. So it was just too I mean, at
Speaker 2: that point he had voluminous credits and not a lot
Speaker 2: of hits, you know, and my job is to basically
Speaker 2: make those voluminous credits seem As I used to say
Speaker 2: at the time, you say to people, you know Quincy Jones, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I know the name. What can you have? No idea?
Speaker 2: People didn't really know what to attach the name to,
Speaker 2: you know, and my jobs attached to I wanted to know.
Speaker 1: How potent he was pre off the wall in terms
Speaker 1: of like because I know the idea of Quincy Jones,
Speaker 1: especially now, he's definitely the post thriller effect, and you know,
Speaker 1: he's told me stories that even off the wall was
Speaker 1: a hard selle because like they didn't want him, you know,
Speaker 1: the guy's old, past his prime.
Speaker 2: Whatever. Well, actually the line was they said, he'll make
Speaker 2: him sound. He'll make Michael sound like the brothers Johnson
Speaker 2: and Brothers were, which Platinum was great, and Mike was like, okay, right,
Speaker 2: I see that. But in terms of the potency, I mean,
Speaker 2: obviously it was it was a build because when he
Speaker 2: hired me. Ostensibly. The short of the very long story
Speaker 2: is I was there to do an interview with him
Speaker 2: about Body Heat. I got a call from the publicity
Speaker 2: department A and M asking me what I'm interested in
Speaker 2: talking to him about body Eat. So I listened to
Speaker 2: the record, loved it, said I'd love to. And I
Speaker 2: had known him since I was a kid because he
Speaker 2: had conducted for my dad and and he had signed
Speaker 2: my dad. He made some of my dad's records at
Speaker 2: Mercury when he was head of A and rn't Mercury.
Speaker 2: So we went. He told me to meet him at
Speaker 2: A and M because he was still doing his big
Speaker 2: band down down at Disneyland. Disneyland used to do big
Speaker 2: band shows during the summer. Uh, he said, meet him
Speaker 2: in a. M met him in a and M got
Speaker 2: on the band bus, went down there. We sat backstage
Speaker 2: and talked for you know, all night. He never did
Speaker 2: do the interview, so come by the crib the next day.
Speaker 2: I did, and talked more for twelve more hours. Never
Speaker 2: did do the interview, told me to come back Sunday
Speaker 2: and do it again. We didn't again on Sunday, and
Speaker 2: I really never did do the interview. And I realized
Speaker 2: after it was all said and done, while I was
Speaker 2: there to interview him, he was actually interviewing to me,
Speaker 2: and the truth was he had. He explained to me
Speaker 2: something I came to realize years later. Quincy shed skin
Speaker 2: every seven years seven years or so. You know, he
Speaker 2: makes changes overall, and changes and whatever he's working on,
Speaker 2: and he was about to make. He said to me,
Speaker 2: body heat was indicative of many things he was. He
Speaker 2: was moving away from the whole big band arrangement anything
Speaker 2: to a more rhythm section based electronic R and B vox.
Speaker 2: And as he said to me, say man, he said,
Speaker 2: I feel like every day I'm going to film studios
Speaker 2: doing this big band conducting thing, but I'm going home
Speaker 2: at night listening to Stevie Rufus and Chako Ohio Players
Speaker 2: and Earth Wind and Fire and he said, I want
Speaker 2: to I want to jump in those waters. And that's
Speaker 2: ostensibly what Body Heat was. And then you know, Body
Speaker 2: Heat was his first gold record worked Melon Madness was
Speaker 2: you know, first platinum record, first golden platinum, and Brothers
Speaker 2: Johnson Lookout for Number One was also platinum, the first
Speaker 2: golden platinum albums by Black Arts the A and M
Speaker 2: had had and he just you know, slowly built it
Speaker 2: from there. You know, it's crazy. Yeah, I found your
Speaker 2: brother by the way, Yep, yep, there is that back
Speaker 2: to my brother guy.
Speaker 3: What is your How long did you stay with Quincy Jones?
Speaker 2: And he was there for eleven years from nineteen seventy
Speaker 2: three to nineteen eighty four.
Speaker 3: Wow, who was the brain trust behind his branding?
Speaker 1: Like I've never seen someone have their logo on someone
Speaker 1: else's record before.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he said, he was like, I want to, I
Speaker 2: want my logo on there, you know, and said we
Speaker 2: thought helped him fight for it.
Speaker 3: But that's so unprecedented though, Like who knew to do that?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 3: Is that is that the first?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 8: What do you call the drop that every producer has like, oh,
Speaker 8: like a guy a producer tag like this music. No, no,
Speaker 8: but seriously, I mean, if not to that extent, but no,
Speaker 8: it really was great, Brandon, because every time you saw
Speaker 8: that logo, you knew what the record was going to
Speaker 8: sound you, at least for me as a kid, like
Speaker 8: reading that and seeing Quincy Jones productions like, Okay, I
Speaker 8: know I'm getting Polino Da Costa, Jerry Hay, I know
Speaker 8: I'm getting Rod Tempersent, right, you know what I mean?
Speaker 8: It was already just kind of a building selling.
Speaker 2: The other thing we said you to is when he
Speaker 2: was doing a new artist, So I said, Quincy Jones presents,
Speaker 2: you know, Brothers Johnson or whatever.
Speaker 3: At any point do you sort of elevate past like
Speaker 3: doing this publicity to like actually working, So like, why
Speaker 3: do you work with Patty Austin where it's weird, Like
Speaker 3: I know, I believe she's this god daughter or.
Speaker 4: Her I feel like forever?
Speaker 3: Right, So, like, what was your first big.
Speaker 2: Responsibility Brothers Brothers Johnson.
Speaker 3: Really?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Okay? So for those three four.
Speaker 2: Albums, ibserved for four records, from the first album through
Speaker 2: through the st the Night. Okay, look out for number
Speaker 2: one second record, right, on time, right on time, and the.
Speaker 1: Worst beating in my life. Well, you know, because they
Speaker 1: jumped again. This is another impressible Americans in Trouble story.
Speaker 1: You know, they're jumping on the album cover and the
Speaker 1: I guess the camera right, And so I once I
Speaker 1: used to always go to my dad's band mates like
Speaker 1: and try it jumping, and I jumped and dropped the
Speaker 1: dad's guitar players and yeah, boy, and talk about lookout.
Speaker 3: For number one. Number one was the belt.
Speaker 2: You live to tell?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, Yeah, So, like, what were your duties in
Speaker 3: terms of their projects?
Speaker 8: I was de facto manager, but really yeah, like a
Speaker 8: project manager or like manager.
Speaker 2: Of that product manager product as well as artist manager.
Speaker 2: You know, just sort of connected the dots on his
Speaker 2: behalf because in the early days, the first three records,
Speaker 2: yeah there were, Quincy had a management company called Mellow
Speaker 2: Management and then and it was he basically he and
Speaker 2: I got a guy called Peter Long and Peter Long
Speaker 2: actually was It's funny missed in Sesame Street. He was
Speaker 2: married to uh along the red along, Yeah, exactly, and
Speaker 2: Peter Peter was how long was he married to a
Speaker 2: long time?
Speaker 3: He played keyboards? Right? No?
Speaker 2: Uh no, He was a stage manager at the Apollo
Speaker 2: and he and he ran the Apollo Kids. Luther came
Speaker 2: through there. Now Rogers came through there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Luther the only authorized book. That's how I know.
Speaker 1: The name Luther kind of speaks of how like wanting
Speaker 1: Peter Long's approval of Like I guess Peter was sort
Speaker 1: of like the doting father that you know, never gave.
Speaker 2: He was very acerbic, right, and Luther.
Speaker 3: Always felt like no matter he would sell out consonants.
Speaker 3: He was Luther Vangrosen.
Speaker 1: Finally, like maybe the Busy Body tour, the Night I
Speaker 1: Fell in Love tour, like Peter Long was like.
Speaker 3: I'm proud of you.
Speaker 1: You did well for yourself, and like Luther like cried,
Speaker 1: like finally I made my dad proud, like that sort
Speaker 1: of thing.
Speaker 3: That's how I know Peter Long.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Peter was the responsible adult because during the course
Speaker 2: of the early period of my existence with Quincy, he
Speaker 2: would always bring in because I was a kid. He
Speaker 2: hired me when I was nineteen, and he would always
Speaker 2: bring in a so called responsible adult to kind of
Speaker 2: you know, balance me out, you know, make sure I
Speaker 2: didn't get two buck. And Peter was that guy.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so as a manager, and so I'm glad I'm
Speaker 1: interviewing someone who was a manager in the seventies.
Speaker 3: Were writers a thing? Yeah that okay, so similar to now.
Speaker 2: Ish but yeah, but you know now they're more pronounced,
Speaker 2: and in those days, you know, it was primarily you know,
Speaker 2: the black promoters consortium, you know, so you know, if
Speaker 2: you tried that, I only want the red eminems like
Speaker 2: nigga fuck all right.
Speaker 1: So I later found out from David Lee Roth that
Speaker 1: they weren't separating the green eminems. If you don't know,
Speaker 1: Van Halen was world famous for separating the brown eminem's
Speaker 1: from the pile, and we thought that was the most
Speaker 1: arrogant rock star the boucher shit ever but we later
Speaker 1: discovered that not true. Yeah, we later found out that
Speaker 1: the reason why Van Halen had that in their writer
Speaker 1: was because sometimes promoters would not read the writers at all.
Speaker 3: To see if you're paying attention to details, right, And
Speaker 3: so that was the that was the thing. Wait, one
Speaker 3: more question about them.
Speaker 1: What happened in nineteen eighty one with the Winners record
Speaker 1: and why didn't Quincy produced that album?
Speaker 2: I was gone by that, I mean, I wasn't gone.
Speaker 2: Then you know, guys wanted to Quincy got tired of
Speaker 2: hearing Yeah, these records are great, but wait till you
Speaker 2: hear what we do when we get a chance to
Speaker 2: do it ourselves, you know. And Quincy was like, okay,
Speaker 2: have some with that, right.
Speaker 1: It's weird because it's not like they stopped working with
Speaker 1: I mean, you know Lewis still yeah, exactly was working
Speaker 1: with them. But in their mind they're like, did they
Speaker 1: feel as though they wanted to get a more modern
Speaker 1: sound or you.
Speaker 2: Thought they had graduated and were ready to get out
Speaker 2: on their own, you know, ah, and.
Speaker 3: You don't let that happen. Is this also a classic
Speaker 3: case of like, you know, you got to let them
Speaker 3: find out on their.
Speaker 2: Own, and he did in their own way. And then
Speaker 2: then also Quincy at that point is doing other stuff,
Speaker 2: so you know, Mike mic and his own records, and.
Speaker 3: So where did you jump to after that?
Speaker 2: After Ariston? I went to aristone eighty four. I started
Speaker 2: in January eighty five, I had uh, so.
Speaker 1: It's kind of after you No, well, I mean I
Speaker 1: always consider Angelo Bouthfield like mine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I loved it, loved her, I loved her.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what was he like because anytime she was on television,
Speaker 1: she was the most her and Tota Vega was the
Speaker 1: most eccentric humans I've ever seen get interviewed.
Speaker 3: Right, she was and what was about her?
Speaker 8: Like?
Speaker 3: Was he just does she have?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 3: Was humor her shield?
Speaker 2: I don't know. I was crushed out because you know,
Speaker 2: she was on g RP and Gruson is one of
Speaker 2: Quincy's closest friends, and it was.
Speaker 3: D Dave Bruson really ran GRP.
Speaker 2: He and Larry Larry Rosen. Yeah, and I remember when
Speaker 2: she played here for the Angela Night record, you know,
Speaker 2: big coming out party here in La and I was
Speaker 2: I was crushed out, crushed out fanboy. And uh, when
Speaker 2: I got to Arista, they too tough, had just sort
Speaker 2: of happened, had happened, and they were doing the Greatest
Speaker 2: Hits record, and Clive had me looking for songs for
Speaker 2: the Greatest Hits Record. You know they want to add
Speaker 2: two extra song, Yeah, extra song. So we just song
Speaker 2: called Still in Love that Derek Bramble produced and wrote.
Speaker 2: And uh, and she should call me high ed. She
Speaker 2: had little little cutesy voice and she was, you know,
Speaker 2: said kind of eccentric. Yeah, she was cool she's.
Speaker 4: Very under the moon and over the star.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: So what was working with prime Clive Davis?
Speaker 2: Like, well, nineteen eighty four, when Quincy and I stopped
Speaker 2: working together, I got a call from Neil Port. Now
Speaker 2: Port now you know who ran the Grammys. And Neil
Speaker 2: at that point was ahead of West head of the
Speaker 2: West Coast for Arista. So he calls me because I
Speaker 2: knew him from from record business out here. He worked
Speaker 2: for twenty Century Records, worked Verry White and stuff like that,
Speaker 2: Very White, and then James Inger, the original James's first
Speaker 2: deal was actually a twentieth twentieth Century Wow. Yeah, we
Speaker 2: jacked him basically from them. Okay, And Neil calls me
Speaker 2: one day in the office and and what's up. Neil says,
Speaker 2: there's a rumor that you're leaving Quincy. He said, it's
Speaker 2: not a rumor. I said, I'm leaving. He said, would
Speaker 2: you be interested in talking to Clive? It's because Jerry
Speaker 2: Griffith is leaving. Jerry Griffith, being the guy who had
Speaker 2: signed Whitney, found Whitney. He said, would you be interested
Speaker 2: in talking to Clive? You know, I said yeah, sure,
Speaker 2: Because I was well aware of the legend of and
Speaker 2: all that stuff, and had never met the man. Neil says,
Speaker 2: he said, there's just one thing to remember, and I said, well,
Speaker 2: he said, Eris is a label of artists, and Clive's
Speaker 2: the biggest artist on the label. And uh, oh, I
Speaker 2: got you. So I got a call and met him
Speaker 2: over at the Beverly Hills Hotel. You know, the legendary
Speaker 2: Enclaver he olds court when he's here, and uh in
Speaker 2: a in a suite, you know, with speakers. Basically I
Speaker 2: thought it was in a fucking Metallica gig, you know, cranked,
Speaker 2: you know, and he people music and he's blasting, you know,
Speaker 2: and he's played me Whitney. He's Whitney was working progress.
Speaker 2: The first record he played, You Give Good Love, played
Speaker 2: a bit of how well I Know and Saving All
Speaker 2: My Love for you, and you know when just back
Speaker 2: to back to back, and you couldn't really talk to
Speaker 2: him after I said, oh, that's Whitney. Hears that. He
Speaker 2: goes really, how'd you know? I said, I said, I
Speaker 2: know these things, you know. And recently they had had
Speaker 2: a showcase here in LA for writers and producers, which
Speaker 2: was kind of legendary story at the time, where he
Speaker 2: was pitching for songs and stuff, and Quincy couldn't make it.
Speaker 2: But I was well aware, and you know, Whitney was fine,
Speaker 2: you know, and I was smart enough to know that.
Speaker 3: So do those things generally work?
Speaker 1: Like when you gather uh, you know, a bunch of
Speaker 1: of of not even named brand but writers and producers
Speaker 1: in a room and someone tries to sell you on
Speaker 1: their artists, like we're going to really make it work.
Speaker 2: Sometimes that generally work. Sometimes when its Clive Davis or
Speaker 2: Quincy Jones. Yeah, you know, so when it's just you know,
Speaker 2: some pisher an our guy, but not so much. But yeah,
Speaker 2: so you know, he played me, played me, that played
Speaker 2: me a kashif some of the Kachiff record that was
Speaker 2: in motion Kenny g record, which was basically record with
Speaker 2: Kenny playing solos.
Speaker 1: Was he generally you know, okay, not not to throw
Speaker 1: the bus, but like kind of like the way that
Speaker 1: Jimmy Ivying operated during the time when we were under
Speaker 1: the tutelage of Jimmy Ivy. Like, you know, it's like
Speaker 1: if you're in a world where you're dealing with sting
Speaker 1: and no doubt in eminem then it's like you might
Speaker 1: just get like a once a year below there and whatever.
Speaker 1: But in general, was Clive the type of artist that
Speaker 1: paid attention.
Speaker 3: To a group like Real, a group like Real to Real,
Speaker 3: just like he would you know about Real to Real, Dude,
Speaker 3: I'm a leon. We're a leon.
Speaker 2: And I took him a copy of the Real Real cassette.
Speaker 2: He'd forgotten all about it, Dude.
Speaker 3: They just released that that album. They just digitized it
Speaker 3: like maybe a month ago. Wow, it's finally on streaming.
Speaker 3: But I'm saying, would he pay attention to them as
Speaker 3: much as he would air supply or no?
Speaker 2: No, I don't know their situation. I mean basically the
Speaker 2: role of thumb that we had amongst the A and
Speaker 2: our staff, whether it was true or not, but it was.
Speaker 2: We found it to be the practical reality, which was
Speaker 2: if he had stuff that he was excited about at
Speaker 2: one point and then somehow had lost its luster, it
Speaker 2: didn't perform in the marketplace or whatever, and they went
Speaker 2: back in to do their fill in the blank second
Speaker 2: or third record, and the new songs that came in
Speaker 2: weren't his cool and blah blah blah, but they didn't
Speaker 2: want to pay out to throw the bone to the
Speaker 2: ANR guys, here fix this, you know. And Real the
Speaker 2: Real was one of those situations for me.
Speaker 3: Okay, now know what happened to like average White Band and.
Speaker 2: Real the Real and Patrese.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's right, but yeah it feels so real, like well,
Speaker 1: it's hard to tell, like when if you're a kid
Speaker 1: and you hear a song long enough as yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but okay, So even Jeffrey Osborne explained to his situation
Speaker 1: with with the Aerosmith and the same with Ray Parker Jr.
Speaker 3: So yeah, like who would you at at Arista? Who
Speaker 3: what was your duties there as far as like.
Speaker 2: I was vice president of an R for aren't the
Speaker 2: R and b R and B area?
Speaker 3: What X came onto your tutelage?
Speaker 2: Obviously they were under clives too, right, you know? But uh, Aretha,
Speaker 2: it was during the Freeway love period, just heavily during
Speaker 2: the Narda period. I have some great fun.
Speaker 3: Yeah, please give me.
Speaker 1: I'm also curious about just how jazz fusion guys, ironically
Speaker 1: weird enough start establishing the pop landscape of the eighties,
Speaker 1: and Narda is one of those people.
Speaker 2: With him is I should have loved you?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, very well because brothers Johnson toured. The
Speaker 2: tour was Noardi, Michael Walden, Rufus and Shaka heat Wave
Speaker 2: and brothers Johnson and Bill Yeah one, Bill Arenas and
Speaker 2: uh and Narda had like fifteen minutes up front. You know, basically,
Speaker 2: I should have loved you.
Speaker 3: And then you know some I don't want anybody else
Speaker 3: to dance with you.
Speaker 2: Now, I think that was what's his name Jackson was?
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was seventeen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So as an an R and you know who
Speaker 1: your boss is, how heavy is the pressure to readjust
Speaker 1: your ears and your preferences to sort of blend in
Speaker 1: with his for survival's sake, as opposed to.
Speaker 3: I think it should go in this direction.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a frustrating experience, but I learned a
Speaker 2: great deal. And I hold dear to my to my
Speaker 2: heart to twenty months that I worked for Clive because
Speaker 2: he puts you up on game, you know, because when
Speaker 2: I came out of Quincy, it was kind of like
Speaker 2: I'd been in a glorified mom and Pop or I've
Speaker 2: been at Howard and going to Clive was like going
Speaker 2: to Harvard.
Speaker 3: What's the main lessons that Quincy taught you that and
Speaker 3: what's the main lessons that Clive taught you.
Speaker 2: Quincy, I'd say song, song is king and melody is queen,
Speaker 2: truth and honesty at all times, and you know, vatively
Speaker 2: business all the above. Okay, Yeah, My take on q
Speaker 2: in those days was if there were two doors in
Speaker 2: a room, one was marked artist, one was marked business,
Speaker 2: ninety seven percent of the times he would go in
Speaker 2: and out of the artist or but you know the
Speaker 2: business store was was he was well oiled. He was
Speaker 2: in other you know, he was highly evolved as a businessman.
Speaker 2: Get it. He was really driven by the business and
Speaker 2: his business drove his art in a lot of levels.
Speaker 8: So Clyde was the was it Everse was he was
Speaker 8: more business than.
Speaker 2: Clyde was song. But he was definitely business and it
Speaker 2: was the feel for the marketplace. This sounds like a
Speaker 2: pejorative and it's not intended to be per se, but
Speaker 2: we used to hear from time to time just because
Speaker 2: their artist doesn't mean they know what they're doing. It's
Speaker 2: our responsibility as a our people and creative people at
Speaker 2: the record company, because we're spending the money to find hits,
Speaker 2: to find the hits for.
Speaker 1: So, is there an example of a song in which
Speaker 1: the artist might be perceived as kicking and screaming like
Speaker 1: there is air supply, like we had.
Speaker 2: This, even I wasn't really with their supply. Air supply
Speaker 2: wasn't there when I was there and Manilow had, Manelo
Speaker 2: had more or less had left the label at that point.
Speaker 2: I was there during the you know it was Billy Ocean,
Speaker 2: you know, with the give stuff. Hoo, Denei, with the
Speaker 2: give stuff. That's what friends are for Dionne. Because that
Speaker 2: that was a frustrating record for me.
Speaker 3: Why didn't last night only getting the worse?
Speaker 2: That was just the record single?
Speaker 3: Yeah, what's the story of that? From your nuts?
Speaker 2: My frustration was Arthur Baker and Little Stephen had come
Speaker 2: to me with the with the Sun City record. We
Speaker 2: didn't want to do that, and and and I played
Speaker 2: it for Climb and played it for Roy, rented up
Speaker 2: the Flagpoole for all the obvious reasons. I really wanted it,
Speaker 2: and I like Arthur and I like Steven, and I
Speaker 2: brought it in and it kind of dangled and dawdled
Speaker 2: for a bit and then we're not gonna do it.
Speaker 2: We're gonna do the dion has just come to me
Speaker 2: with this idea from Burt Backrack blah blah blah. It
Speaker 2: was the front end of the whole AIDS epidemic thing,
Speaker 2: you know, And I admit that I was a bit
Speaker 2: of a knucklehead. I was like, fuck e fuck that. Yea,
Speaker 2: this is important to Sun Cities. However, black people, black people,
Speaker 2: black people, and you know, they weren't having it, and
Speaker 2: then so he wasn't having it. So ultimately Arthur and
Speaker 2: Stephen took it to Manhattan to Bruce Lunvall. I guess yeah, uh,
Speaker 2: and then Clive, you know, they did. That's what friends
Speaker 2: are for. And this is pre digital, so any kind
Speaker 2: of cuts and edits, we're actual tape cuts and stuff.
Speaker 2: And there's a guy who was on the A and
Speaker 2: R staff with me then, uh, still a friend of
Speaker 2: a guy called John Mervos. Mervos and I have had
Speaker 2: a running bit ever since then because there was an
Speaker 2: A and R meeting at one point where Clive had
Speaker 2: us in there listening to a bazillion different mixes and
Speaker 2: different cuts. You know, Stevie first, Gladys first, you know,
Speaker 2: you keep smiling, He's smiling, so.
Speaker 1: You're trying to tell me that they wanted the piecemeal together,
Speaker 1: like yeah, all right, so we'll bring glass in the end.
Speaker 2: And they did it all they did. Everybody had a
Speaker 2: solo verse. Everybody had an ad lib.
Speaker 3: So everyone saying the verse, and then you guys had
Speaker 3: to figure out the nomination.
Speaker 4: He would offer his you know that, and how do
Speaker 4: you figure out the sequence first?
Speaker 2: There?
Speaker 3: I was always felt that song.
Speaker 8: I mean I was five six whenever it came out,
Speaker 8: but I always thought it felt like they were trying
Speaker 8: to make a wee all the world, like they were
Speaker 8: going for that moment, like another anthem kind of that's
Speaker 8: what yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: But I always wondered why Gladys Knight never got a verse.
Speaker 1: She just comes in on the ad lib at the end, smile, smiling.
Speaker 1: That's the only time she appears on.
Speaker 3: It, right, So goo ahead. So were you there for
Speaker 3: the recording of it or just like not.
Speaker 2: In the studio, but you know, in the in the
Speaker 2: office because you know that was a client project, so
Speaker 2: you know, you'd bring me and our guys in, you know,
Speaker 2: when when there was a decision to be made or
Speaker 2: listen to this what do you think kind of stuff?
Speaker 8: You know?
Speaker 3: And uh, and how long did it take to slice
Speaker 3: together and all of those things.
Speaker 2: I don't know, I remember. I just remember the meeting
Speaker 2: being interminable, you know, and a certain pint like.
Speaker 1: We got to get Steve Little Stephen on the show
Speaker 1: because I just finished his reading his autobiography and him
Speaker 1: talking about leaving leaving right on the payoff of boring
Speaker 1: in the USA to do uh, artist against apartheid.
Speaker 2: And he's a good man. I almost almost hired him
Speaker 2: at one point at Mercury really because you know, he's
Speaker 2: part of the bon Jovie mob.
Speaker 3: And uh, he's a record guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I used to see him a lot around
Speaker 2: John and Richie and those guys. Okay, you talked to
Speaker 2: me when he had it was just formed of the
Speaker 2: Disciples of Soul, his band, and uh. I remember being
Speaker 2: in England with bon Jovi and Stephen was there and
Speaker 2: kicking it with the said our job. You know.
Speaker 3: So how long was your your run at Arista?
Speaker 2: Twenty months?
Speaker 3: Okay from January it was your last few months.
Speaker 2: Like weird. It got weird there from a bit because
Speaker 2: the project that I ended up working on that took
Speaker 2: It became pretty clear to me early on in the
Speaker 2: process that I always said that you know, it's Clive's
Speaker 2: candy store, and if he doesn't want a certain kind
Speaker 2: of chocolate in the candy store, you're fucked. And there
Speaker 2: were things that I wanted to do that you know,
Speaker 2: kept getting shot down because.
Speaker 3: This is a canine story.
Speaker 2: I had LeVert early Wait what Yeah, I had Lavert
Speaker 2: because because Eddie and uh, Eddie and Harry Coombs called
Speaker 2: me one day and said, hey, man, what you doing?
Speaker 2: He said, me and Eddie are gonna come out here.
Speaker 2: You want your headies? Kid? He played me, played me.
Speaker 2: They had an independent record of the song I'm Still Yes,
Speaker 2: and then heard it and smash, you know, and the
Speaker 2: kid sounds like his dad was all good and uh
Speaker 2: and played it for the boss and he was like,
Speaker 2: you know, so pass.
Speaker 1: Okay without really in the most respectful way, or if
Speaker 1: you just want to be honest, does sometimes this black
Speaker 1: music have to be explained to him?
Speaker 3: Like did he know the magic that he had in
Speaker 3: Hudini or is this like oh these rap guys went
Speaker 3: gold too.
Speaker 2: That was really Clive Calder and Barry Wise and a
Speaker 2: Carle and Carly you should have on the show sometimes.
Speaker 2: Tokyoski Yo. Yeah, he had a pretty good feeling he
Speaker 2: had a feel for songs, songs and trends, you know.
Speaker 1: So yeah, all right, okay, So I'm revisiting and there's
Speaker 1: a reason why I have all the Soul Trained stuff.
Speaker 1: So now I'm kind of in the Sole Train Awards thing,
Speaker 1: and I'm watching season two of the Soul Train Awards
Speaker 1: and you can clearly hear the booze and the jeers
Speaker 1: of the second album.
Speaker 3: In the build.
Speaker 1: I was there, Okay, so in the building even though,
Speaker 1: and it's so weird because everyone's relationship with I want
Speaker 1: to dance with somebody now, like I put I want
Speaker 1: to dance with somebody in what I call the September file,
Speaker 1: I don't I don't believe that Earth when Fire really
Speaker 1: thought like September was going to be their signature song,
Speaker 1: just like I don't think run DMC thought that it's
Speaker 1: tricky it's going to be their signature song.
Speaker 3: Now it's like.
Speaker 1: When I play I want to Dance with Somebody who
Speaker 1: loves me, it's almost like I see the revisionist reaction.
Speaker 3: Of everyone, like we've always loved the song, but I.
Speaker 4: Did as a little girl when it came out as
Speaker 4: a That's.
Speaker 1: Because when you were young and no, no, no, and
Speaker 1: it's technically nothing, it's nothing wrong with it, but there's
Speaker 1: a reason.
Speaker 2: For me.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: So George Clinton once told this joke, said that slide
Speaker 1: Stone said this about Prince. I was like, man, he
Speaker 1: walked around here like they want to some Sign of
Speaker 1: the Time show, and George is like, what'd you think?
Speaker 1: Like that was the first time that Sly really got
Speaker 1: to see Princess, and Sli allegedly said, man, man, he
Speaker 1: up there tasting like broccoli when he should be tasting
Speaker 1: like mustard greens. I got that, and so I think
Speaker 1: in my mind the thing was I tried to figure
Speaker 1: out Okay, so the version that I would have wanted
Speaker 1: Whitney Houston to come out with.
Speaker 3: Then it would just probably been like a she record.
Speaker 1: More thinking about you is more you give good loves,
Speaker 1: which we're still our gems.
Speaker 3: But I don't know.
Speaker 1: Oftentimes I don't want to be the fan that punishes
Speaker 1: someone for having to adjust to the climate. And it's
Speaker 1: almost like I don't know what the answer is. But
Speaker 1: I do remember when I got that record, you know,
Speaker 1: loves the Contact Sport, and I was just like, wow,
Speaker 1: this is really poppy, and I wasn't thing like an
Speaker 1: an r at the age of fifteen, but.
Speaker 2: Even I knew, like from inception, the the motive always was.
Speaker 2: I remember just being there, She's a pop star, Whitney's
Speaker 2: gonna be the biggest pop star in the world, and
Speaker 2: that was that was that was the goal. And the
Speaker 2: Kashif tracks were there to basically introduce her to put
Speaker 2: toe in the water at black radio, get black folks,
Speaker 2: you know, to know what it is. But then we're
Speaker 2: crossing it from there.
Speaker 3: You know, did anyone ever asked? But at what cost?
Speaker 1: That's not Whitney Houston, because I'm almost certain that she
Speaker 1: too was like, hello, I don't know, I don't know, Okay,
Speaker 1: so do you know what the general feeling in the
Speaker 1: building was after the Sole Train Award situation, because I'm
Speaker 1: really shocked they didn't edit.
Speaker 3: So they later edited those booze out, but I.
Speaker 4: Recorded it like the full sentence of mere fort a
Speaker 4: young folk.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: So at the Soul Train Awards, and it really wasn't
Speaker 1: Whitney's fault, but she was just like, too you biquit,
Speaker 1: it's winning too much. And so when they were nominated
Speaker 1: and the nominas of her so emotional winning us and
Speaker 1: you just.
Speaker 3: Clearly hear.
Speaker 1: It's just crazy crazy booze and me and my mom
Speaker 1: looking at each other watching the Soul Train Awards like yo,
Speaker 1: like wow, and so who do.
Speaker 4: We want to win? I'm like, now a retrospect to
Speaker 4: I'm like, who do we think? God dooped?
Speaker 3: I was frustrated at her career.
Speaker 1: I'm proud of this success, but there was just too
Speaker 1: much scene on it for me, too much Yamaha Dix
Speaker 1: seven too much, you know, the Michael Master intros and everything.
Speaker 1: But it's weird because now it's like, oh, I love
Speaker 1: this all along, which is you know, but what were
Speaker 1: your general feelings like what was the feelings of the
Speaker 1: building after the Soul Train Awards?
Speaker 2: Just disappointment? You know what the fuck was that? You
Speaker 2: know kind of thing? You know, But was it an.
Speaker 3: Instant like we gotta fix this or was Claud aware
Speaker 3: like we might have to fix this.
Speaker 2: Let's just keep it moving. That was the vibe. I guys,
Speaker 2: keep it moving, you know, keep putting it on the
Speaker 2: radio and blow it up.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: What happened after Arista what the PolyGram?
Speaker 2: There was a new music seminar was going on in
Speaker 2: New York. It was August July of eighty six, and
Speaker 2: I'd run into this guy called Bob Scoo Scorro ended
Speaker 2: up being in my head at A and R for
Speaker 2: Mercury the pop side, and Bob and I had known
Speaker 2: each other from out here because he used to be
Speaker 2: a song plugger for EMI Music and I saw him
Speaker 2: when he was like, dude, how I am? You know
Speaker 2: one of those things? What's happening? I said, dude, get
Speaker 2: me out of here? He said what he said, just
Speaker 2: get me out of here. I see. It wasn't working
Speaker 2: out for me. It was it was weird environment. I said,
Speaker 2: I don't want to be here anymore, and I had
Speaker 2: aspirations of doing something. You know, Arista was not a
Speaker 2: great place to be at that time. If you were
Speaker 2: a creative person who had illusions of your own personal grandeur.
Speaker 3: You know, who did you try to bring there that
Speaker 3: besides LeVert?
Speaker 2: Like LeVert who got away basically LeVert us mostly songs?
Speaker 2: Could you find songs and stuff?
Speaker 8: You know that?
Speaker 2: Uh? That you what songs did you ride for that?
Speaker 2: Caravana Love for Angie really yeah wow?
Speaker 3: Caravan Love Angel.
Speaker 2: Yeah wow? My my ex girlfriend from years her sister
Speaker 2: was married to Ernie, and uh, and that's yeah, I
Speaker 2: got to call it one one point. You know, Ernie
Speaker 2: and Chris have songs they want you to hear. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm looking for songs for Angie Bofield. Well we got
Speaker 2: a perfect song for They came up and played me
Speaker 2: Caravana Love, and uh.
Speaker 3: I didn't see it.
Speaker 2: No, so no, it's too preachy. So yeah, okay, Yeah, anyway.
Speaker 1: I assume that he's trying to hit Middle America. Yeah,
Speaker 1: yesh okay, and you're trying to hit all of America exactly.
Speaker 2: So that got frustrating. And the projects that I actually
Speaker 2: ended up working with Kenny g got dropped in my lap,
Speaker 2: you know, because I did the toes Thank you?
Speaker 3: Can you plan that moment?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 3: Can you plan that level of lightning in a bottle?
Speaker 2: Here's the moment. I'd known Kenny as Kenny Gorlic when
Speaker 2: he was playing with Jeff Lauber's band. I was a
Speaker 2: Laber fan and uh, and so when I got in
Speaker 2: then and once again I spent some time with Kashif
Speaker 2: and out here in La Hi, How You Doing was
Speaker 2: actually a hit record on the radio, which was a
Speaker 2: Kenney record, but it was a kaif with Kenny solo
Speaker 2: in it, and uh So, one day I get a
Speaker 2: call Clive actually Roy Lott, who's the number two guy
Speaker 2: in Ariston, and Roy says, you know Kenny Kenny g
Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah blah. So yeah, cool, let me
Speaker 2: hear it. I said, I know who he is. Let
Speaker 2: me hear it. And then Kenny calls Kenny's manager, guy
Speaker 2: called Dennis Turner, who had managed George Benson. I knew.
Speaker 2: I knew him from the Gimme the Night days. So
Speaker 2: they came by and Kenny walks in and he says, dude,
Speaker 2: I don't want to be here anymore. I want to
Speaker 2: get off the label. I hated here. I fucking hate
Speaker 2: it here. I'm tired of being a sideman on my
Speaker 2: own records. And I looked at I said, dude, I
Speaker 2: know who you are. I said, I saw you play
Speaker 2: with Jeff many times. I said, I like your playing.
Speaker 2: He looked at me, like what what what? I said, Yeah, Dick,
Speaker 2: how you sounded good with with Larber's band. I said,
Speaker 2: I know what you're trying to do. I said, but
Speaker 2: the reality is is people are trying to put you
Speaker 2: in a in a box that you need to be
Speaker 2: Sonny Rollins and John Coltrane when the reality of it is,
Speaker 2: I know you your path in it is like David
Speaker 2: Sanborn and Grover you know, and Junior Walker. So that
Speaker 2: was like music to me. This it was at the time,
Speaker 2: was at the front end of the CD thing, but
Speaker 2: also it is at the front end of the whole
Speaker 2: smooth jazz the wave format, you know. And I said,
Speaker 2: I think you can live in that zone. And then
Speaker 2: he gave me a cassette of you know, the home
Speaker 2: stuff that he was working on, which was ultimately the
Speaker 2: bones of the meat and bones of what was the
Speaker 2: duo toun And and I told him to say, man, look,
Speaker 2: here's what we need to do. If you trust me,
Speaker 2: here's what we need to do to make this fly. Here.
Speaker 2: So we got to do two covers. We got to
Speaker 2: do two vocal songs. One of them's got to be
Speaker 2: a cover and that was what does it Take to
Speaker 2: Win Your Love? And then another and another vocal song,
Speaker 2: which was don't Don't make Me Wait for Love?
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: We got a guy called Ellis Hall, who's a keyboard
Speaker 2: player up up in the Bay Area that did a
Speaker 2: lot of stuff for Narda got Ellis to sing it,
Speaker 2: and ultimately he ended up putting Bolton on it. I said,
Speaker 2: and if we do that, we have some of the radio.
Speaker 2: Can promotion can take the radio. We're off to the
Speaker 2: race and the rest will live on it. So and
Speaker 2: you'll you'll be the king of you know whatever, smooth jazz.
Speaker 2: And we did so.
Speaker 3: Nowhere and you can't end it. We did, I mean
Speaker 3: we did.
Speaker 1: You weren't done you surely you weren't thinking like, and
Speaker 1: this is going to sell you ten million copies.
Speaker 2: No, I didn't think that, because I didn't think the
Speaker 2: songbird would would end up emerging.
Speaker 1: A songbird, even I was working at sam Goodies at
Speaker 1: the time. Even like the amount of people that's how
Speaker 1: I knew. I've realized that I knew some songs from
Speaker 1: a previous record, right, But the amount of people just
Speaker 1: kept in somber.
Speaker 3: That's I don't know what a dou withtones is? How
Speaker 3: did y'all? How did song I was?
Speaker 2: I was gone by then, But basically what happened. The
Speaker 2: story that I'm told is Donnie Einer, who is the
Speaker 2: head of promotion in Ariston in those days, best promotion
Speaker 2: man of his of his of his period of his era.
Speaker 2: Donnie had gotten a call from some guy up and like,
Speaker 2: I want to say, Uh, what's the part of Pennsylvania
Speaker 2: that Biden talked about aways from? Uh, Scranton some some
Speaker 2: p D and Scranton had been using it for some
Speaker 2: using it as a theme for some like daytime call
Speaker 2: in show or something, just the melody, and I guess
Speaker 2: people started calling station what is that? What's that melody?
Speaker 2: Play man? And so they put the record on late
Speaker 2: at night and then phone started lighting up and they
Speaker 2: called Donnie and said, I think you may have something here,
Speaker 2: and Donnie pushed Donnie and Cliveve pushed the button, put
Speaker 2: it out and off off it went.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, So at PolyGram, how long does it take
Speaker 3: you to get to the top of the mountain?
Speaker 2: I had I was working at aristat and Ramon came
Speaker 2: by to see me one day, just you know, on
Speaker 2: some some whatever, and uh, Vanessa at that point, had
Speaker 2: you know done, just dur frysco at that shake and hey,
Speaker 2: good looking on on the PFONK record, on George Clinton record,
Speaker 2: and uh, and I knew that they'd been in and
Speaker 2: out of mini offices here shopping a deal, and ostensibly
Speaker 2: what was happening was that she was kind of being
Speaker 2: ogled at by you know, record company presidents and A
Speaker 2: and R people whatever, but nobody was really taking it seriously.
Speaker 2: And he said, you know, we haven't been able to
Speaker 2: get anything happen, and blah blah blah blah. And I
Speaker 2: told him, I said, look on the lowest and I'm
Speaker 2: leaving here in about six weeks. I got this software
Speaker 2: PolyGram to start a label for them, and I'm going
Speaker 2: back home to California. I said I would entertain the
Speaker 2: notion then, because my theory at the time was I
Speaker 2: could start a new label with Susie Jones, you know,
Speaker 2: black on Army female that nobody nobody's ever heard of,
Speaker 2: or I could do with Vanessa Williams. I named that
Speaker 2: everybody knew, and I said it was in coming on
Speaker 2: me as an A and R guy and a record
Speaker 2: maker to make the music, to find the right hole
Speaker 2: to put her in. And so he said, okay, cool.
Speaker 2: So I flew. I came home and she and I,
Speaker 2: she and I sat and had dinner one night, and uh,
Speaker 2: after the races, we went.
Speaker 1: You know, is the goal of an an R to
Speaker 1: find like three signature artists so that you can eventually
Speaker 1: like get considered for well.
Speaker 2: Interestingly enough, the uh, the presidency thing was not what
Speaker 2: I ever aspired to be, you know, president of the
Speaker 2: whole Mercury thing. I never aspired to be that guy.
Speaker 2: But there was a certain aspect of when it was
Speaker 2: offered to me. I thought about a lot of those
Speaker 2: old school dudes that I knew from, you know, from
Speaker 2: my dad's era. You know, old old old brothers who
Speaker 2: would promotion and whatever the Dave Clark's, Joe Medlin's in
Speaker 2: the world. People like people probably worked your old man's records.
Speaker 2: So yeah, so those guys were very qualified and extremely
Speaker 2: good at what they did, but they never were offered.
Speaker 2: The situation never got never got shot. I thought about it.
Speaker 2: I said, who am I to say no? So they
Speaker 2: made me an offer I couldn't refuse, and I didn't
Speaker 2: refuse it. But the truth of the matter is the path,
Speaker 2: if I had stayed on the path that I was
Speaker 2: on doing the wing thing, Vanessa, Blue, Tony's Blue, Robin
Speaker 2: Harris was was gonna do, was gonna blow. Unfortunately lost
Speaker 2: them in a period of time, and then that's when
Speaker 2: I found Brian along the same period of time, Brian McKnight.
Speaker 2: So if I had just done those records and just
Speaker 2: stayed in their careers, you know that was you know
Speaker 2: that one success breeds another album. I would have been
Speaker 2: four or five albums deep on each one of them.
Speaker 1: You know, you came through the Tonys because of Foster mceilroy.
Speaker 1: But I thought they were more Warner based and no, like,
Speaker 1: how did they come to you?
Speaker 2: I put them with Denny Tommy. Oh yeah, short. How
Speaker 2: they came to me was the Tony said made us
Speaker 2: made a single, the twelve inch on Macolo Records, the
Speaker 2: local indie record, indy label.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he tells you designs video games.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I forget to nip because I was thinking about it.
Speaker 2: I can't find it now. I shouldn't have sold my vinyl. Yes,
Speaker 2: So they had a twelve inch on mycola and my
Speaker 2: head of promotion at Wing at the time was a
Speaker 2: guy called Michael Johnson. And Michael came to me one
Speaker 2: day and said, man, you got to hear this record
Speaker 2: and I heard. I said, yeah, it's cool. Sorry, I said,
Speaker 2: He said, man, they're here in times. Let's you want
Speaker 2: to fuck with him? And said yeah. Their manager came
Speaker 2: by and I sat with him a little bit and
Speaker 2: and upon hearing it, I went, these guys sound good,
Speaker 2: but they need help. They need somebody to help fare
Speaker 2: sort it out a little bit. In those days, my
Speaker 2: theory was every producer worth any degree of salt had
Speaker 2: a cassette in his back pocket of an act that
Speaker 2: they wanted to work with. You know, oh, this is
Speaker 2: my cousin, this is my brother, you know what? And uh,
Speaker 2: I said, you know, these guys are cool, so let me.
Speaker 2: David Lombard, who manages Denny and Tommy, was a friend.
Speaker 2: And I went to see Club Nouveau because Club Nouveau
Speaker 2: was playing here in town. So when Danny and Tommy
Speaker 2: were still in the band before they left, it was
Speaker 2: actually the last gig they played with him, So was
Speaker 2: the show with David, and he introduced me with Danny
Speaker 2: and Tommy, and I told him, I said, man, I'd
Speaker 2: like to have you guys work on this band that
Speaker 2: I'm thinking about signing. Really who And I told me, oh,
Speaker 2: we know those guys. They knew them from Oakland because
Speaker 2: I guess they'd worked with Tommy in the studio up
Speaker 2: in Oakland.
Speaker 1: So at the time, did you realize that you were
Speaker 1: working with possibly the last well not the last R
Speaker 1: and B group, But I meant, if it starts with
Speaker 1: Sling the Family Stone in sixty eight and it kind of.
Speaker 3: The bracket ends with Tony Tony Tony in eighty eight.
Speaker 2: I was. I was very aware of it. Absolutely, So you.
Speaker 3: Knew that black music was in trouble even in eighty
Speaker 3: sixty seven. And what were some of that indicators for you?
Speaker 2: Black radio? You know, there was that that MTV video
Speaker 2: of video killed the Radio Star, and I said, black
Speaker 2: radio killed the Black radio star during the period of
Speaker 2: time you know about that?
Speaker 1: Is it just in terms of promoting you talk about
Speaker 1: Donnie Iron, which I didn't know it even started and.
Speaker 2: Start there, but that was when it was a big
Speaker 2: gig before he went to we went to Son.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So when you talk about promotion, men, do
Speaker 1: you tell about the difference between as much as you're
Speaker 1: allowed to say, like how these songs get on radio
Speaker 1: or how they get promoted as opposed to that which.
Speaker 4: I you know, and explain what you mean about how
Speaker 4: it killed because we didn't really explain it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that part.
Speaker 2: Yeah, both of the above So to give a perfect
Speaker 2: example as it worked with me, was when we released
Speaker 2: the first Brothers Johnson album in nineteen seventy six, look
Speaker 2: Out for Number One. The first city that it blew
Speaker 2: up in was d C. So we being George and Lewis,
Speaker 2: were going to d C to do some promotion and
Speaker 2: we're coming in from Dulles in the car and we're
Speaker 2: hearing and turn on h U R and ky asked
Speaker 2: right over the other stations in d C and they're
Speaker 2: blasting good to you. Get the phone, look out my face, thunders,
Speaker 2: thumbs and lightings like free and single and tomorrow playing
Speaker 2: five even the filler yep, five cuts deep, you know,
Speaker 2: playing the ship out of it. You know this is
Speaker 2: exactly playing a ship out of it, and say, oh
Speaker 2: my god, this is great, you know it was. It's
Speaker 2: all like that. So that night we were the local
Speaker 2: guy in the market took us to dinner with the
Speaker 2: program director music director of.
Speaker 4: W o L, the big radio one. Yeah, that was
Speaker 4: preen w L w M m J is Katy Katy's
Speaker 4: first station.
Speaker 2: So they took us to dinner with these guys. It
Speaker 2: was a program director at the time is a guy
Speaker 2: called Bobby Bennett, who was known as the Burner, sort
Speaker 2: of legendary radio guy, another guy called Chuck McCool, guy
Speaker 2: called Cortes Thompson who went on to become a head
Speaker 2: of promotion at at Warner Brothers. And another guy whose
Speaker 2: name escapes soon. So you know, we're at the dinner
Speaker 2: table and I'm green behind you as I'm geeked, Oh,
Speaker 2: this is worth the palm. This is great, this is great.
Speaker 2: You guys are playing it right the car well, we
Speaker 2: heard our record the whole way in. And one of
Speaker 2: them looks, come, young brother, let me talk to you
Speaker 2: a minute. He took me into the bathroom, you know,
Speaker 2: and said, and then five guys come in the bathroom
Speaker 2: and what the fuck this said? Let me explain something
Speaker 2: to you. It said, Okay, said basically, you know, we're
Speaker 2: playing the Ship out of your record, but you know
Speaker 2: we can play the Ship out of his record or
Speaker 2: her record or his record too. But here's here's here's
Speaker 2: your payback for this. We're gonna do it. We're doing this.
Speaker 2: We're also concert promoters. We're gonna do a series of
Speaker 2: shows in the d C, d M v DC, Maryland, Virginia.
Speaker 2: It was P. P. Funk, Natalie Cole and the Bootsy
Speaker 2: and the Brothers Johnson and whatever you're going rate is,
Speaker 2: it's not gonna be your going rate. So and we'll
Speaker 2: keep you'll keep those spins up. And they did and
Speaker 2: we did, and uh, this is.
Speaker 1: How the Chef Gordon Teddy Pendergrast story comes into play
Speaker 1: because Shef Gordon told us that programmers and DJs were
Speaker 1: like any concerts that you saw in the seventies and
Speaker 1: eighties were due to the radio station, not independent of Hey,
Speaker 1: I'm coming to town and you pay me.
Speaker 3: Right, so they the promo show.
Speaker 4: I guess era getting of the promo shows because that.
Speaker 2: Show you're gonna play our Christmas show? You know years
Speaker 2: later A see, So how did they kill it?
Speaker 4: How did black radio kill it? For you?
Speaker 2: There's so much I don't want to say payola, but
Speaker 2: just there are limited spots. Guys were taking money and
Speaker 2: then you know they wouldn't play the way you know,
Speaker 2: it didn't get the spends that you know that you
Speaker 2: expected to get, you know, so many hours in the
Speaker 2: day and then you know, but legitimate hits got played,
Speaker 2: but stuff that you know that you you want to
Speaker 2: get a shot. You know, I think we could do
Speaker 2: well with this. Here's X amount. You know, I need
Speaker 2: whatever fifty spins this weekend. Whatever didn't happen, you know,
Speaker 2: guys took your money and ran, you know, and then
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, there's no loyalty anymore to legacy acts.
Speaker 2: You know. You know when you see like that, I'm
Speaker 2: talking early into late nineties. When you're seeing that, Luther Stevie,
Speaker 2: I need a People out there are having to fight
Speaker 2: to get on the radio at black radio. That's really
Speaker 2: a sad state of affairs, it is.
Speaker 3: I think about it all the time.
Speaker 1: But for you, it's like when when do you consider
Speaker 1: you leaving or do you consider yourself completely graduated from
Speaker 1: quote unquote the business?
Speaker 2: Yeah, am I'm more or less retired. I still do
Speaker 2: little bits and pieces of stuff here and there, you know,
Speaker 2: because I get these occasional phone calls, Hey, Ed, I
Speaker 2: got an idea, And I always say, does the check
Speaker 2: come with that idea? I'll pay attention. So what do
Speaker 2: you is.
Speaker 3: Watching the State of music right now?
Speaker 2: Is it a dizzying experience somewhat?
Speaker 3: Is it like a beautiful mind meme where you see
Speaker 3: like is it like that for you?
Speaker 2: Yeah, somewhat. It was interesting. In preparation for today, I
Speaker 2: was thinking about, you know, I said, if I get
Speaker 2: asked the question, what are you listening to? And I
Speaker 2: had to realize I hate answering that question. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: realized that, you know, of most of the new stuff
Speaker 2: that I listened to is old stuff that's either been
Speaker 2: released or it's new on my radar, you know. But
Speaker 2: it's just not a lot of new stuff that you know,
Speaker 2: I don't mean to sound like an old man, but
Speaker 2: it's not a new a lot of new stuff that
Speaker 2: rocks my world, you know.
Speaker 3: Know, We're we're a band of a folk who it's
Speaker 3: somewhat frustrated.
Speaker 4: It's just harder to find it these days. There's way
Speaker 4: too many options. Because at the same time we say that,
Speaker 4: but then I also I'll hear y'all two talking about
Speaker 4: like new R and B acts and stuff like that
Speaker 4: that I've never heard of, and I'm just like, fuck,
Speaker 4: how do I even find these people?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I mean, now you have to have
Speaker 3: the patience to.
Speaker 1: You know, either scroll on the internet or in my case,
Speaker 1: I have at least twenty music snobs that I just
Speaker 1: peek on their Spotify and see what they're listening to,
Speaker 1: and then.
Speaker 3: I'll take that and take That's how I know whose
Speaker 3: salt was, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: So I like salt.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's quick, there's there's there's a few, a few left.
Speaker 8: I don't want to ask what year. So you're president
Speaker 8: of a Mercury from what years?
Speaker 3: When did you?
Speaker 2: I was co president? Initially, I was a polygra. I
Speaker 2: was a PolyGram during the wing from nineteen eighty six
Speaker 2: to nineteen eighty eight, and then I became co president
Speaker 2: of Mercury from nineteen eighty eight till nineteen ninety with
Speaker 2: a guy called Mike Bone, and then I became the
Speaker 2: sole president from nineteen ninety till I left to nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety eight.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, Okay, it was a run.
Speaker 8: So in terms of I wanted to know with hip hop,
Speaker 8: looking back on it now, like Murcury was always a
Speaker 8: label with hip hop. I mean, y'all had black sheet
Speaker 8: you know what I'm saying. You had like elous scratch, you.
Speaker 2: Know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: Like y'all have records edog, you know what I mean.
Speaker 8: And so for me, it seems like Mercury was one
Speaker 8: of the first labels that I in retrospect. Now, they
Speaker 8: y'all had like records and artists, but it was kind
Speaker 8: of like unless that artists was attached to like black.
Speaker 3: Sheet, they were attached to Native tones, you know what
Speaker 3: I'm saying.
Speaker 8: But if you had artists that had great records, if
Speaker 8: they weren't attached to another production company, like you know
Speaker 8: what I'm saying, or like like you know what became
Speaker 8: Rockefeller and murder In and all of those things, it
Speaker 8: was kind of the beginning for me of losing faith.
Speaker 3: In major labels doing hip hop.
Speaker 8: Like if I just saw Columbia, I'm like that, if
Speaker 8: I see, you know, Rockefeller slash, I'm like, oh, okay.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean, it's like a good housekeeping
Speaker 2: stamp over approval or the Quincy Jones reduction. Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.
Speaker 8: So, how did you as a labelhad how did push
Speaker 8: in hip hop coming from like the pop background and
Speaker 8: with Clive and stuff, How did you adapt to marketing
Speaker 8: hip hop?
Speaker 2: You just see, you get in where you can fit in,
Speaker 2: you know. And if it was this case of finding
Speaker 2: stuff that was attached to somebody else or something else,
Speaker 2: that's how you did it, you know, because you knew
Speaker 2: there was an uphill climb if you're starting it from scratch,
Speaker 2: because at radio once again, the first question you're going
Speaker 2: to ask is who are they down with? You know who?
Speaker 9: So it was that, you know, Similarly, there's like a
Speaker 9: new phase of white rock music in the same time period, right,
Speaker 9: it's bon Jovi, def Leppard, Mellencamp, Tears for Fears, Kiss, Like,
Speaker 9: what what made the diversity of what you were doing?
Speaker 9: I think you started with R and B. Now it's
Speaker 9: rock music like they were. How'd you feel about being
Speaker 9: that guy that ushered that kind of stuff?
Speaker 2: Yeah, the h all those artists were already at the
Speaker 2: label when I got there, you know, I inherited them,
Speaker 2: and it was interesting.
Speaker 3: Did you have good relationships with most of them?
Speaker 1: Or did you did you feel that there was resistance
Speaker 1: from the rock people that maybe you don't understand them.
Speaker 1: I know there was a situation where Sylvia roon at
Speaker 1: Elektra with like Metallica, and there was a lot of
Speaker 1: disrespect on their end because they're like, who does.
Speaker 3: This black woman know about that?
Speaker 2: Like I had my version of that, you know. One
Speaker 2: point was sort of asked the question, what does he
Speaker 2: know about rock and roll, and I say a whole
Speaker 2: lot more than you know about R and B.
Speaker 4: You know that my people created it, right.
Speaker 9: But there's a line here that says John Mellencamp being difficult.
Speaker 3: I'm sure there's a story there said John's also an essentric.
Speaker 3: I think all artists are centric.
Speaker 2: So you know, I liked him, but he's he definitely
Speaker 2: what's the Q tip line record? Yeah, John definitely read
Speaker 2: that book and then had had suspicion of everybody. Everybody
Speaker 2: record company is an idiot.
Speaker 1: You know, and uh and you know, and he was
Speaker 1: successful though he was, but he just had you know,
Speaker 1: everything was were you the brain chow behind him?
Speaker 2: What is Tim? Tim wi our new words a lot?
Speaker 2: Tim White? Timothy White who used to be the editor
Speaker 2: of Billboard. Tim and I were pretty friendly, and he
Speaker 2: was one of John's closest friends. And I knew that
Speaker 2: if I pitched John directly, here's an idea I have
Speaker 2: for a duet, But he was fuck you. So Tim
Speaker 2: calls me at one point and says we're having a conversation.
Speaker 2: He goes, I'm trying to help John make some sense
Speaker 2: to this next record. He said, what do you think?
Speaker 2: I said, Well, a cover might be a cool idea.
Speaker 2: I covered it day he goes let's got it, I said,
Speaker 2: Michelle and na Ocello, she was the girl of the moment,
Speaker 2: and so I said, John, you know it's satisfied his
Speaker 2: Negro Jane and so.
Speaker 1: Hey, this is once play a little Ricorvette at a
Speaker 1: walk man like to his audience, like back in.
Speaker 2: Eighty two, and so yeah, Tim basically with the John
Speaker 2: So here's an idea, but min and John Levan Morrison,
Speaker 2: so it's cool. Then he did it.
Speaker 1: I was at I was at a Michelle show at
Speaker 1: the Blue Note and some poor soul in the back
Speaker 1: was like shouted it out.
Speaker 2: I was like, how was the response?
Speaker 3: She laughed, Okay, oh thats how.
Speaker 8: Involving you and the creation of Vanessa's The Comfort Zone
Speaker 8: album one.
Speaker 2: Hundred percent okay, producer you work with on it?
Speaker 8: Keith Thomas.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Keith, Yeah, man, Like, how did that?
Speaker 8: Because was my favorite song on that album again, good
Speaker 8: Bye that was by MC knights comes in at the end.
Speaker 2: That was the Yeah, Keith Thomas, because I really like
Speaker 2: the B, B and C C record I'm Lost Without You.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then Keith had produced that record, wrote and produced
Speaker 2: that record, and uh, Keith was kind of Christian David Foster,
Speaker 2: you know, that was the vibe, you know. And when
Speaker 2: when the publishing person played me save the Best for
Speaker 2: Last and I said yeah, and I played for v
Speaker 2: and she dug it. I said, who's the right person
Speaker 2: to produce that? Foster would be great to do it,
Speaker 2: but I know he won't. But Uh, Keith Thomas. I
Speaker 2: called Keith Scott. Folks who was in our capit on
Speaker 2: those days, front on you, everybody fronted up.
Speaker 3: Dreaming was a proven hit by the folks.
Speaker 2: Folks fronted, yeah, she had to do it again to
Speaker 2: prove it. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: Goddamn.
Speaker 2: Keith respect called Keith and and they and they, and
Speaker 2: he said, yeah, I'm down. The funny part about is
Speaker 2: Keith's production assistant had sent me a cassette of just
Speaker 2: ideas that he had and then left out to two
Speaker 2: songs that Keith thought had come to me he thought
Speaker 2: it passed on. One of them was Baby Baby, the
Speaker 2: Amy Grant record, and the other was the song that
Speaker 2: was this big Selena hit. So that's that's the Keith
Speaker 2: Thomas story. You know, Keith, Keith, Keith was a good dude.
Speaker 8: And how was it, because another one of your hip
Speaker 8: hop I really like Dimond D.
Speaker 3: He had what you involve.
Speaker 2: We had a deal with I can't remember the name
Speaker 2: of the label, Mstry Chemistry Records, Chemistry Records, a guy
Speaker 2: called Brian Chen. Brian was the dance dance music editor
Speaker 2: Billboard for a long time. And and Brian had a
Speaker 2: partner whose name escapes me right now, but they did,
Speaker 2: they did, They had chemistry. Eto Ge was theirs. Yeah,
Speaker 2: a few things. Diamond D.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so yeah, can you please tell us the girlfriend's story?
Speaker 2: Oh? Sure. So nineteen eighty seven, eighty six, eighty seven,
Speaker 2: I'm working with Vanessa on her first record, so we're
Speaker 2: trying to make some sense of who would produce, who
Speaker 2: would work with on that record. And I knew these
Speaker 2: two guys from Cincinnati at the time, called Kenny Edmunds
Speaker 2: and Antonio Reid. I had met them because when I
Speaker 2: was working for Quincy, there was a local street producer entrepreneur,
Speaker 2: a guy called Pablo Davis in the Cincinnati, Columbus, Ohio area,
Speaker 2: and Pablo turned me onto the Callaway Brothers then and
Speaker 2: also and he was looking after Kenny. Kenny and Antonio
Speaker 2: they were just becoming La and Babyface. They hadn't gotten
Speaker 2: on yet, and they came by my office, had Vanessa
Speaker 2: go by their place and they worked. She worked with
Speaker 2: him on some songs and they gave he a song
Speaker 2: called Girlfriend, which was great. I forget who was singing
Speaker 2: the lead on the demo, and I've heard it, so
Speaker 2: this smash. I got to have this record, and I
Speaker 2: thought we'd made a deal. We played let's make a deal,
Speaker 2: and v was she was pregnant with her first child
Speaker 2: at that point, and I guess truth of the matter
Speaker 2: is cut to the end, Pebbles was the perfect person
Speaker 2: for it because she had the attitude. She was that persona.
Speaker 2: Vanessa's not that persona.
Speaker 13: But it was tried with the yeah, yeah, the right
Speaker 13: stuff was a little bomb squatted out and yeah and
Speaker 13: and the second single, uh from the cumber Zone.
Speaker 2: Album, Yeah, running back to you, right, yeah, so attitude anyway, So,
Speaker 2: like I said, I thought it had made a deal
Speaker 2: for these like four songs on the tape, that we
Speaker 2: wanted them all and her girlfriend was one of them.
Speaker 2: And at the last minute, right when I thought it
Speaker 2: was time for us to get started, l A Bales,
Speaker 2: he said, He said, I can't fuck with you on
Speaker 2: this recommend. You know, I guess Lowell that he played
Speaker 2: him for Lowell and Lil you know Lowland Jerrell and
Speaker 2: they you know, they loved him, loved it, and then
Speaker 2: you know, threw money I made and Offrey couldn't refuse,
Speaker 2: and you know I got left ass out. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I wasn't. I was, you know, it was it was.
Speaker 2: It was nearly an an R wars, you know, because
Speaker 2: I was like, I want to beat this brother's ass.
Speaker 2: Thank you man. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So, so what do you feel from Afar.
Speaker 2: From CET three or two of the Bleachers?
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly. Do you have hope that.
Speaker 1: Sort of the thing that And again, I know this
Speaker 1: is such a subjective question because I'm certain that there's
Speaker 1: some fourteen year old that's in their feelings at a
Speaker 1: Billie Eilish show that you know, probably the same way
Speaker 1: your dad's looking at Sli the family Stone, like what
Speaker 1: the hell is this?
Speaker 3: Like I knew Billy.
Speaker 1: Holliday, But in your mind, do you think that there
Speaker 1: will be an itch that gets scratched as far as
Speaker 1: your relationship to music and and what brought you to it?
Speaker 2: I don't know, Or is it just in your kid's
Speaker 2: hands down is my kid's hands down, because there's a
Speaker 2: certain aspect of it that I wonder that, you know,
Speaker 2: if the tree falls in the forest, does anybody hear it?
Speaker 2: You know, I'm wondering at times that if whatever that
Speaker 2: next big flash point is, if it happens, William Bay
Speaker 2: really how much William Bay really give a fuck? And
Speaker 2: the give a fuck factor is decidedly different now in
Speaker 2: terms of what that impact is. You know, it's the
Speaker 2: because there's so many options, you know.
Speaker 1: You know, this is probably this is this is the
Speaker 1: episode that I wish. The Faith Newman episode was like
Speaker 1: I feel satisfied. I always always tease her about like,
Speaker 1: you know, you made the worst Q less.
Speaker 2: It's just the Monica episode was the bomb.
Speaker 4: That's your favorite's favorite QL episode so far.
Speaker 2: Bootsy was cool. That was great. Monica was cool.
Speaker 1: You're gonna love the Robert Townsend episode. That is like
Speaker 1: Robert Towns in it. In my opinion, has put the
Speaker 1: Family Stand Jimmy Jam was first.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jam was great.
Speaker 1: That was great, But then for me, the Family Stand
Speaker 1: episode was the Jimmy Jam episode with humor and a
Speaker 1: lot of salacious, unnecessary.
Speaker 3: And are slashing.
Speaker 1: I pray that Sylvia comes on the show eventually, and
Speaker 1: then Robert. I don't know the Robert Towns's episode was
Speaker 1: an unexpected nice surprise. But no, this is equally satisfied. Man,
Speaker 1: I learned so much today, man can reach.
Speaker 4: One roots question. Yes, So in retrospect, as you were
Speaker 4: watching this ship go by without you, did you ever
Speaker 4: have any moments where you were like, man, if I
Speaker 4: only able to sign with me, I would have did
Speaker 4: da d H. I would have been had them and
Speaker 4: so and.
Speaker 3: So and so someone told you that five minutes after
Speaker 3: this episode.
Speaker 2: For us, for me my roots moment because once again
Speaker 2: I wasn't as invested at the time when you were
Speaker 2: showcasing it was really Lisa and Kenyata and I would
Speaker 2: have jumped on board had you know, had we gotten
Speaker 2: the mid green lighted the deal, So I would have
Speaker 2: jumped on board to give you a little sidebar to
Speaker 2: digress them. But how the whole thing went down when
Speaker 2: you know a couple of names were spelled wrong. Yes,
Speaker 2: that ended up being a huge moment for us inside
Speaker 2: the label because a PolyGram At that time, all business
Speaker 2: affairs was kind of done centrally out of corporate and
Speaker 2: the label. Individual labels didn't have their own business affairs people,
Speaker 2: and I made so much fucking noise.
Speaker 4: About that I fired fired somebody.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I didn't fire the person, but one of
Speaker 2: the business fairs persons. And ultimately what it led to
Speaker 2: was me getting my own business fairs person inside of
Speaker 2: the company, which is a woman called Julie Swiddler and
Speaker 2: Swiddler's Julie's now they had of business affairs and has
Speaker 2: been for the last ten years at Sony globally.
Speaker 3: So yeah, and she crossed every team, do every idea
Speaker 3: right exactly.
Speaker 2: So I was drugg that we lost you. But answer
Speaker 2: your question, what really resonated with me was when you
Speaker 2: got went to England, because I was dealing with Giles
Speaker 2: a lot in those days. And then also that how
Speaker 2: you know when you initially blew up quote unquote blew up.
Speaker 2: I met a couple of my friend's kids, white who
Speaker 2: were college students in the East, were he have you.
Speaker 3: Heard ever heard of the roots red?
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure that was me, So yeah, there's a
Speaker 2: lot of that. I was like, I loved what you
Speaker 2: guys were generating it on your own, because I don't
Speaker 2: think it was being marketed that.
Speaker 1: Now, Wendy Goldstein did what was allowed at the time.
Speaker 1: But you know, it's almost like literally the second we signed,
Speaker 1: then the crisis started happening. No more Nirvana, no more Aerosmith,
Speaker 1: no more you know, guns and Roses. And then it's like, ah,
Speaker 1: we should have went to the PolyGram.
Speaker 2: Maybe I got a couple of things here.
Speaker 3: Yes, Yes, he's presenting me with records. Yeah, whoa, Okay,
Speaker 3: he explaining what this is.
Speaker 2: Yes, speak to ship. It's a seventy eight of Wow
Speaker 2: the Hearts, Wow on chests with your racial chests, logan.
Speaker 3: His dad's group, Wow on chest chests.
Speaker 4: Records, don't cry.
Speaker 7: Up.
Speaker 3: Whatever you need to do it have your moment.
Speaker 2: That was That was That was an artifact that came
Speaker 2: from my mom and dad. You know Pops. Pops didn't
Speaker 2: give a funk about Duop, but apparently he likes your
Speaker 2: dad's grew man because you had their record Wow.
Speaker 3: And it's a seventy eight. Do you have something to
Speaker 3: play at seventy eight on?
Speaker 2: Like you.
Speaker 3: I had to frame this.
Speaker 2: That's what you do with that?
Speaker 3: Don't play that? I feel like it'll just like I'm
Speaker 3: so I'm beyond grateful for this man.
Speaker 2: This is.
Speaker 3: Wow. I've never seen not a speechless guy.
Speaker 2: Ed made a speechless guy.
Speaker 3: Well done, man, that's real now. And oh man, even
Speaker 3: Roy Calhoun's the girl around the corners on the beach.
Speaker 4: Oh shit, and what do you have?
Speaker 2: Well, wait a minute, look at the back of it,
Speaker 2: and I'll read you the letter, because there's a.
Speaker 6: What is it?
Speaker 2: So? The legend is told that when Prince was initially
Speaker 2: doing demos and shopping himself, he only made three demos
Speaker 2: to send out. One was to go to the one
Speaker 2: was to go to Warner Brothers. One was to go
Speaker 2: to Columbia. And the lore has been A and M,
Speaker 2: but it was Quincy Jones and and so I got
Speaker 2: this letter.
Speaker 3: I got this letter. You guys have to see this.
Speaker 2: I got this letter. This is like a year before
Speaker 2: COVID from Owen Husney. Owen was Prince's original managers and
Speaker 2: old friend. Ed. Sorry, this is forty years later in
Speaker 2: getting to you. You know how the mail is these days.
Speaker 2: This is the early eight track demo before me we
Speaker 2: made the original twenty four track demo that got him
Speaker 2: signed to Warner Brothers. Your name is in my hand
Speaker 2: and writing, and the rest is Prince you can still
Speaker 2: make an offer to sign him if you like what's
Speaker 2: on the tape. Hope all is well, Please keep the
Speaker 2: secure as this is worth quite a bit to collectors.
Speaker 3: Holy. Yeah, and there is someting wet and aces that
Speaker 3: you know, you know, I mean, it's up with this
Speaker 3: very stereo, very very very stereous.
Speaker 2: Prince Rogers Nelson Esquire.
Speaker 4: Right, this is why it's so important to know your
Speaker 4: history and the players. And we gotta keep saying your name,
Speaker 4: say your name, say your name, dude.
Speaker 2: Go to nice gift and for the rest of us,
Speaker 2: the first.
Speaker 4: Dominant, he wrote, Prince Nelson Esquire, Prince Nelson Esquire.
Speaker 3: That's hilarious, very stereo. He's a lawyer, man.
Speaker 8: That's so that's seventy How how is that? How you
Speaker 8: think that pression is well.
Speaker 3: Tear drops came out and fifth fifty eight? Wow? Bro, yeah,
Speaker 3: holy you guys show the camera that they got No,
Speaker 3: that's yeah, this this this came out in fifty eight,
Speaker 3: so wow. And that's an original press and that's like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you can say somebody played the ship out
Speaker 2: of it. A yeah, Wow, that's amazing.
Speaker 3: Wow, this is I.
Speaker 2: Brought a couple of why you signed?
Speaker 3: Did you sign Joe?
Speaker 2: Huh?
Speaker 3: You signed Joe?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Anyone? He was signed?
Speaker 11: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah he was.
Speaker 3: I had the first album.
Speaker 2: Guy called Dave McPherson signed him. Yeah.
Speaker 9: Also, we didn't discuss the Jason's Lyrics soundtrack, perhaps one
Speaker 9: of my favorite soundtracks time.
Speaker 3: It is that the way for whatever reason, you will,
Speaker 3: I love that. But that was so wow. This is
Speaker 3: your this is your.
Speaker 4: This is your Blackman unit.
Speaker 2: Wasn't we can talk about that?
Speaker 13: Actually, wait a minute, did you take a stab at
Speaker 13: di'angelo before you signed it? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Gary? And then Joscelyn. Jocelyn was working for me in
Speaker 2: there in those days too.
Speaker 3: Were you in the were you in the wait? Joscelyn
Speaker 3: was shopping at the time or no.
Speaker 2: Joscelyn had a publishing company with me. I'd made we
Speaker 2: made a deal called for Midnight Music and uh, when
Speaker 2: Gary took a em I Jocelyn signed the publishing deal
Speaker 2: had him and Gary. They weren't going to use you
Speaker 2: will know for his album and George Jackson and Doug
Speaker 2: mckenry were doing Jason's lyric and that brought me in.
Speaker 2: I was music supervising it with him and I'd heard
Speaker 2: you will know from Gary, and I said this would
Speaker 2: be perfect for the for the for the soundtrack, given
Speaker 2: the theme of the film and all that stuff and
Speaker 2: having you know, come from the sort of the Q world.
Speaker 2: I came up with the idea of let's do it
Speaker 2: as were the worldish kind of thing and called it
Speaker 2: black B and you because that's what they're calling prisons
Speaker 2: at that point, black Man University was, you know, because
Speaker 2: in jail prisons called BM you, and I said let's
Speaker 2: call it BMMU, and then I said black Men United,
Speaker 2: oh ship, and then we.
Speaker 3: Did so then but you also did the same for
Speaker 3: women for the Panther.
Speaker 2: Exactly.
Speaker 3: Well, I want to thank you for coming on the
Speaker 3: show man. Thank you.
Speaker 8: You've been by like some of my favorite records man,
Speaker 8: like Amy, like you know, just from Vanessa Williams and
Speaker 8: the Tony's you know, like if I saw your name
Speaker 8: on it, I was like, okay, it's yeah, it's.
Speaker 3: Basically not for real.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to The Quest Love Supreme hosted
Speaker 1: by Amra cous loved Thomas, Why You, Saint, Clair Coleman, Sugar,
Speaker 1: Steve mandell An, Unpaid, Bill Sherman, Executive producers are a
Speaker 1: Mere Quest, Love Thompson, Sean g and Brian Calton.
Speaker 3: Produced by Britney, benjer Cousin.
Speaker 1: Jake Payne, Wah Sinkley, edited by Alex Connolly, Produced by iHeart.
Speaker 3: By Noel Brown and Mike John's. Audio engineering by Graham
Speaker 3: Gibson and iHeart LA Studio. West Love Supreme is a
Speaker 3: production of iHeart Radio.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.