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Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio. All right,

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Speaker 1: let me know when you guys are done, write your verses.

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Speaker 2: Writing just off the top.

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Speaker 1: For me, the best part of the show is the

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Speaker 1: pre rold panic of the theme.

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Speaker 3: It's a little I'll point to you when it's your turn.

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Speaker 4: See, I know everything you say about to say.

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Speaker 5: No, it's just that's that frequency is a little daring, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 5: I do it as pressure.

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Speaker 3: Let's go mm hm. When three people are done, is had.

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Speaker 2: Three four?

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Speaker 3: Here time, let's go kids, Let's go Dad.

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Speaker 6: Suprema so Supremo role called Supremo Supremo roll.

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Speaker 3: As I sit here, yeah, singing in this gym.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember a time the roots were almost on PolyGram.

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Speaker 7: So Supreva roll called Supremo so so Supremo role.

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Speaker 3: My name is Fante.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, and I'm not alone because I'm with my peoples

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Speaker 8: in the comfort zone.

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Speaker 7: Supremo roll call Suprema Supremo role.

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Speaker 3: My name is Sugar.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I like this setting.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, but it's not as nice yeah as Klie's wedding.

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Speaker 3: Supremo So Supremo roll.

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Speaker 9: I'm unpaid bill, Yeah, I can't complain. Yeah, it's time

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Speaker 9: for stories about purple ring.

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Speaker 2: Whoa call.

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Speaker 7: Supremo roll call Supremo Supremo roll.

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Speaker 4: Like year, Yeah, exes here so much to say. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: won't get in the rear.

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Speaker 7: I didn't sup.

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Speaker 2: Last name, first name is Yeah. How'd y'all get me?

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Speaker 2: Yeah to come out of bed?

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Speaker 7: Supremo roll call Suprema So Supremo roll call Supremo Supremo,

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Speaker 7: roll call Supremo Supremo roll call.

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Speaker 1: Wow, that was an interesting choice of versus you guys.

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Speaker 1: We did good did Yeah?

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Speaker 3: It was that was rather amazing.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, man, shout out DJ Khalil for making this happen, man,

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Speaker 8: big shots.

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Speaker 3: Dj J made this happen.

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Speaker 2: Okay, shots, that's FM.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, man, Okay, we are still live in Los Angeles.

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Speaker 3: How is it going kids?

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Speaker 9: Great is always dead?

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Speaker 3: Okay? What was the highlight of your night?

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Speaker 9: So nope, you can only tell a great story one

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Speaker 9: time from watching you. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Wait a minute. That was a national commercial.

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Speaker 4: Yeah oh yeah.

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Speaker 3: They kind of presented in a local ways. I thought

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Speaker 3: it was just a Tri state area.

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Speaker 4: It's like, don't be a dragon lady. Wait, what's that

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Speaker 4: non smoking? Don't be a dragon lady?

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Speaker 3: Come on, that's a local Joe. We didn't have that.

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Speaker 10: One smoking okay, okay, see I thought I thought that

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Speaker 10: was just a Philly New York that was everywhere.

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Speaker 1: That one in the in the Friday Eggs, that one,

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Speaker 1: all right. So of course if you're not familiar, this

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Speaker 1: is Quest Love Supreme, the award winning Quest Love Supreme.

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Speaker 1: We won so many awards before. I don't know the

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Speaker 1: other words that we just all love.

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Speaker 5: We swept at the Schmuckies this year.

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Speaker 3: I see, how's it going on? Tigelow Ah going good man,

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Speaker 3: I'm making it. I guess by the time this comes

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Speaker 3: on the festival.

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Speaker 8: And Darren, I think hopefully to be over it by

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Speaker 8: the time this ship come out.

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Speaker 3: But nahunked over seventh. We did it and it was great.

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Speaker 1: Nice Steve Jazz World, how's.

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Speaker 3: He treating you?

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Speaker 5: Everything's good. We got the album you did with David

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Speaker 5: Murray that's available now. It's streaming and you know people

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Speaker 5: are gonna vote for it for the Grammys and everything.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: I was just I was just having a conversation with

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Speaker 1: a recent Quest Love Supreme guest on the show, and

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Speaker 1: he suggested, hey, well we do a project together so

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Speaker 1: that in Haith Newman, yes, her like not too long,

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Speaker 1: Faith Newman, Yes, at the nos birthday party yet down?

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah.

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Speaker 1: Pano wants to make something happen Cappin Yeah, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: speed of making it happen, Cavin.

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Speaker 3: When were we supposed to make something happen with Bob James?

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, that got pushed puns. Sorry, okay, but I love.

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Speaker 4: A quest Love Supreme collaboration a lot throughout the years.

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Speaker 3: What's making happen?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: All right, doctor Sesame Street.

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Speaker 9: I listened to the David Murray Quest Love record and

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Speaker 9: it is awesome.

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Speaker 3: It's crazy, it's really good. I'm still discovering stuff.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of samples on its really you just isolate,

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Speaker 1: very angry.

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Speaker 3: That could be like the next twelve roots albums right there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah it's incorrect.

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Speaker 3: Four platters, Yes, it's called plumb. What was your logic?

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Speaker 1: I wanted to call it Three Pleadians walk into a Bar,

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Speaker 1: but of course you did.

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Speaker 3: We did include that, right.

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Speaker 1: One was called I got the name one song, but

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Speaker 1: you know it's Steve. So what's our next project called peach?

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Speaker 3: Okay? And what would that be?

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Speaker 5: Hopefully Belile you Ray and Doyle Bramhall.

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Speaker 3: I like that. I like that, Okay, I'm with that.

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Speaker 5: Oh and Elaina Pinder hughes on flute, okay, like a quintet.

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Speaker 3: That's what's up? Okay, Peach, I got it. How's how's life?

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Speaker 4: Man? Listen?

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Speaker 1: It's good also for really like putting in the hard

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Speaker 1: work and organizing these Uh. She's sort of our person

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Speaker 1: that targets the guests that come on the show.

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Speaker 4: Booker.

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Speaker 7: Out of the.

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Speaker 3: Booker that level. I just feel like, I feel like

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Speaker 3: you run this ship.

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Speaker 4: That's nice me yes me, okay you flowers, yeahs, you

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Speaker 4: know we love you.

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Speaker 3: Take this love. Thank you anyway, ladies and gentlemen.

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Speaker 1: I will say that after are awesome Lisa Cortez episode

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Speaker 1: of Quest Love Supreme in which we kind of went

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Speaker 1: through the story of the close Butano Cigar outcome of

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Speaker 1: where the roots were going to land as far as

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Speaker 1: their major label was concerned. If you don't remember, we

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Speaker 1: have been, you know, spending all of nineteen ninety three,

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Speaker 1: thirty years ago, having showcases and whatnot. The very first

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Speaker 1: label that we wanted to sign to, of course, Mercury PolyGram,

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Speaker 1: and we were really excited. They took us out to dinner.

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Speaker 1: We went to like a Black Sheep Legion video set.

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Speaker 1: It was all exciting, and then because of a technicality,

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Speaker 1: we wound up on another label. So I kinda see

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Speaker 1: this as like an alternative universe.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, like that movie Other Earth.

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Speaker 1: This is an alternative universe in which I am talking

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Speaker 1: to the former president of the label that I never

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Speaker 1: got to sign to. But not that I mean as

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Speaker 1: former president of Mercury, Hollo Graham. But he's also been

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Speaker 1: a senior executive and also a producer, executive producer and

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Speaker 1: a music producer for a lot of the music that

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Speaker 1: we have grown up listening to still currently listen to.

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Speaker 2: Name it.

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Speaker 3: Michael Jackson, Quincy.

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Speaker 1: Jones, bon Jovi, Kiss, Whitney Houston, Quinny g Brian McKnight,

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Speaker 1: Tony Tony Tony very happy about that reunion.

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Speaker 3: By the way, did you see the North Carolina show? No?

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Speaker 3: I didn't see that.

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Speaker 1: Oh wait, I thought their first they did a test

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Speaker 1: show in North Carolina.

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Speaker 8: I know there was in October first, which today is

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Speaker 8: not Oh I get it.

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Speaker 1: But you don't know that in September they did a

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Speaker 1: secret show in North Carolina, Right, yeah they did. But

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Speaker 1: the only thing about like towards when they start, if

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Speaker 1: you don't see the first three shows is all but

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Speaker 1: guarantee that they're going to shop the songs in half once.

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Speaker 3: They find a rhythm.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, So I saw the set list of what

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Speaker 1: their show was and it's way past the roots in

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Speaker 1: ll It's like it's damn near three hours.

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Speaker 3: Like it's a.

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Speaker 1: Well, they start with all the classic filler. Then they

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Speaker 1: go into Raphael's songs that he wrote for other people.

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Speaker 1: Oh ship, because so he's doing cozy, He's doing.

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Speaker 8: What covied that's Covin and cozy.

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Speaker 10: I'm sorry as a as a word player, getting my

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Speaker 10: sea words mixed these things. Beyonce thing, well, she's she's

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Speaker 10: too omni president Like Beyonce is like.

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Speaker 3: A air and water. It's like hard to resist.

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Speaker 1: And then they go into the solo stuff and then

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Speaker 1: they end with the hits. So but of course, you know,

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Speaker 1: management stuff's like, uh, can y'all just turn this into

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Speaker 1: a two hour sho because your audience is like whatever?

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Speaker 3: But anyway, so much.

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Speaker 1: With the Tony's Yes, our guest today, I pray has

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Speaker 1: a lot of stories about his journey in this music

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Speaker 1: business that we love. Please welcome to usself Supreme, the

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Speaker 1: one and Only Ed Eckstein, Thank you, thank you.

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Speaker 2: Pleasure to be here.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for being here. Man, it's a long clap.

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Speaker 3: We got away for forty seconds clapping. How much for that?

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Speaker 4: I guess that. Listen to the show too?

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Speaker 3: How are you to day? You listen to the show?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I do. I listened when I walk in the morning. Wow,

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Speaker 2: that roll call then.

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Speaker 3: Shot right off the damn we knew the jazz guys.

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Speaker 1: Gotta I get the feeling you've been telling you about,

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Speaker 1: Like we got you out of bed this morning.

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Speaker 3: What what is your morning routine? What do you do?

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Speaker 1: I like to know what executives and creatives do for

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Speaker 1: the first half hour of the morning.

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Speaker 3: What's your morning routine?

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Speaker 2: I get up, I do a meditation and prayer, and

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Speaker 2: they go for a walk. I try to walk, you know,

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Speaker 2: close to ten thousand steps for really more like five.

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Speaker 3: Right. Hey, I'm with you.

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Speaker 2: And I come home, you know, have my breakfast, chill

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Speaker 2: with my wife and my son. Okay, you know, just

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Speaker 2: get on and get on the computer, you know, do

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Speaker 2: my thing.

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Speaker 3: I was your son.

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Speaker 2: He's twenty two, okay.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And what's your method for meditation? You know we're

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Speaker 4: into that here. What's that about?

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Speaker 2: Just close my eyes and you think about you know,

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Speaker 2: what I can do to better my life and be

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Speaker 2: better for the for the world is collective that day,

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Speaker 2: you know. Just so yeah, just positivity. Try to be

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Speaker 2: as positive as possible.

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Speaker 1: You said something, and now now I want to get there.

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Speaker 1: Everyone reveal your steps right now? What's on your phone?

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Speaker 1: Your steps?

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Speaker 3: Do you know how to look at your steps?

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Speaker 2: I went to the Gyn's money. I'm gonna win.

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Speaker 3: Okay, what is it? You go first?

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Speaker 9: Eight three hundred and six.

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Speaker 3: I hate you right now? That's mine.

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Speaker 1: I told you on a good day. That's why I

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Speaker 1: hope they get to like me. Getting above five thousands

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Speaker 1: my goal right now.

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Speaker 3: I'm nine eighteen.

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Speaker 2: That's not gonna.

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Speaker 3: I'm a lazy. That's like sometimes in my in my

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Speaker 3: hotel all the way, I'll walk twice. Hope I get

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Speaker 3: it up to one thousand. What's your step, Steve?

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Speaker 5: It says six in and out burgers, eighteen cigarettes.

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Speaker 3: I'm at five hundred and forty four steps.

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Speaker 4: I'm a twenty six seventy two.

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Speaker 3: Ye Let's let's try to get it up to five thousand.

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Speaker 3: At least that will help us.

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Speaker 4: Okay, were you did you say? Yours?

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Speaker 3: I sit nine hundred and eighteen.

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Speaker 4: I slept late and use we just gonna do it.

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Speaker 3: We just gonna do that.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I'm supposed to do at least ten thousand,

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Speaker 1: you know, So, like I know for you, and it's

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Speaker 1: rare to meet executives. Oftentimes I'll meet executives that are

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Speaker 1: more about saving their jobs and submitting their legacy, and

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Speaker 1: they don't really seem to be passionate about music or

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Speaker 1: music fans. But I definitely know that you are a

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Speaker 1: passionate You love music more than.

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Speaker 2: Anything in the blood.

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Speaker 3: It's almost ird to me. Do you do you find

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Speaker 3: that as well?

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Speaker 1: Like that executives aren't are mostly there to cross teas

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Speaker 1: and dot ies and really not.

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Speaker 2: Not all, but a significant portion. Yeah, during my period

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Speaker 2: when I was active in it, there was certainly there

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Speaker 2: were music guys in there. In the Wall Street takeover happened,

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Speaker 2: and it became, you know, sort of an element of

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Speaker 2: give me twelve pounds of music to go. You know,

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Speaker 2: nobody's really listening to it.

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Speaker 1: You know, in my head, I kind of hold like

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven as kind of the Mason Dixon line

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Speaker 1: of where hip hop, you know, suddenly realized it's it's

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Speaker 1: earning power, and then suddenly it became big business, right

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Speaker 1: as opposed to whatever me living in the delusional state

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Speaker 1: of Hey, people love music for music and it's an

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Speaker 1: artful and that sort of stuff.

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Speaker 11: Good luck with that, right well, I know, right, But

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Speaker 11: for you on the executive side of things, was there

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Speaker 11: a glory period and then was there the Mason Dixon

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Speaker 11: line period of like what am I doing here?

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Speaker 2: Yes? From the executive side, what got frustrating was in

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Speaker 2: those days it was still terrestrial radio largely. That was

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Speaker 2: the master that we had to honor. You know, there

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Speaker 2: were so many situations where there were acts that you

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Speaker 2: loved eta you know, I'd love to try and go

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Speaker 2: get after this and break it, but you knew that

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Speaker 2: radio wasn't going to play it, and it was you

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Speaker 2: had limited resources of what you could spend to make

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Speaker 2: things happen, and so to a certain extent, I found

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Speaker 2: myself in the position of chasing things that you thought

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Speaker 2: were somewhat safer. But you know, not that my instincts

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Speaker 2: may have gone in one direction, but the realities of

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Speaker 2: the marketplace, and after all, I'm running a business, you know,

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Speaker 2: is just another So all.

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Speaker 1: Right, I need a five second moment of reflection right now,

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Speaker 1: because instantly I'm regretting the decision I made. I'm literally

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Speaker 1: sitting here like, wait a minute, if this person was

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Speaker 1: at the top of the pyramid, how would of my

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Speaker 1: life had turned out. I don't know if this particular

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Speaker 1: tortoise in the hair journey it.

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Speaker 3: Is for everybody and it's not.

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Speaker 1: It was a long, hard thirty years in getting here,

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Speaker 1: and I'm glad I'm here. So yes, I will say

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Speaker 1: that I don't regret anything, but I will say that

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Speaker 1: of anyone that I had dealt with in music, to

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Speaker 1: even hear you speak on that level, in my head,

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Speaker 1: I'm already like, damn, where's that person when I needed

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Speaker 1: them in my career? Because we the reason why I'm

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Speaker 1: here is because we had to fit for ourselves. People

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Speaker 1: were just like, I don't know, figured it out for yourself,

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Speaker 1: So we had to figure it out for ourselves. And

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Speaker 1: so yeah, I'm having a moment of Oh, I wonder

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Speaker 1: what happened to have we chose well?

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Speaker 4: Who knows ed you might he might have been a

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Speaker 4: different end in those days too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and then I'm gonna ask, were you the same

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Speaker 1: ad now that you were thirty years ago.

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Speaker 2: Well in some ways yes, but no. But as far

300
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Speaker 2: as you guys were concerned, because I remember vividly Kenya

301
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Speaker 2: I bet you do. Ken YadA Bell was the an

302
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Speaker 2: R guy who was who was actually working for us,

303
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Speaker 2: who who first identified you guys was excited about. He

304
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Speaker 2: worked for Lisa Cortez, so he and Lisa came in

305
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Speaker 2: and said, we're really interested in this band. They said

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Speaker 2: the magic words banned to me because when I signed

307
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Speaker 2: the Tonys was at a period when there was a

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Speaker 2: lull in black bands, and I come up from that era,

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Speaker 2: and I always viewed the Tonys as the last of

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Speaker 2: the Mohicans on the R and B band level, but

311
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Speaker 2: of the hip hop generation. I remember vividly seeing them

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Speaker 2: play a performance at the Palladium one night in New York,

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Speaker 2: and they were killing that night on stage and the

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Speaker 2: audience was just dumbfounded, staring into space. And I was

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Speaker 2: there with the late great Gary Harris, who was working

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Speaker 2: for me at that time, and Gary and I say exactly,

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Speaker 2: and Gary and I are saying, I'm look at him, said, gee,

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Speaker 2: what's up man? How come nobody's reacting to him? They're

319
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Speaker 2: killing up her? He says, you got to understand some man.

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Speaker 2: He said, most of the kids in this audience have

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Speaker 2: never seen kids their own age playing a musical instrument.

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Speaker 2: I was like, wow, really, and so that that was

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Speaker 2: the reality of it. So when I heard about you guys,

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Speaker 2: you know, the combination of you know, Tarik and a band,

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Speaker 2: I said, this is interesting to me. I always remember

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Speaker 2: that the showcase was the coldest hell night in SI

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Speaker 2: studios myself half to death. I had a clause in

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Speaker 2: my contract in those days, because I'm from LA that

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Speaker 2: if it got to single digits in New York I

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Speaker 2: could I would turn around and go home. I mean,

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Speaker 2: and if I was walking through time times square, the

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Speaker 2: time and temperature, you know of the sign of the world,

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Speaker 2: if I looked up and there was you know, three

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Speaker 2: point fifty two eight degrees, I'd walk back to my

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Speaker 2: office say, Chris booked me, I'm going home. And I

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Speaker 2: think that night was one of those nights, you know,

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Speaker 2: at least it got me to stick around to see

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Speaker 2: the band. Thank you. Yeah, it's cool.

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Speaker 3: Thanks, brilliant though, that's brilliant.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you know to put that in there, like that's

341
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Speaker 4: so interesting, Like did somebody else tell you once, and

342
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Speaker 4: you know, and when you do a new contract.

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Speaker 2: No, because i'd worked, I'd spent enough time back He's

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Speaker 2: because I went to high school back he's and I

345
00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:19,439
Speaker 2: was working for Arista when I was at Ariston and

346
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Speaker 2: I didn't have that. Clive wasn't playing that.

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Speaker 3: I knew other name at x sign.

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Speaker 1: Of course, when you read OM credits, I saw your

349
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Speaker 1: name on like Vanessa Williams's projects and the Tony's and whatnot.

350
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Speaker 3: But what was the road that led to your president?

351
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Speaker 1: Like how long did it take from the moment you

352
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Speaker 1: entered the mailroom to presidency?

353
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Speaker 3: How long was that?

354
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Speaker 2: I started at PolyGram in nineteen eighty seven. Dick Asher

355
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Speaker 2: was the president of PolyGram in those days, and he

356
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Speaker 2: because PolyGram, just for a little inside baseball was a

357
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Speaker 2: Dutch owned Phillips Dutch owned company based in based in Hilversom, Holland,

358
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Speaker 2: with a with a European base in London, headquarters in

359
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Speaker 2: New York, with satellite offices in Nashville and Los Angeles,

360
00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:18,280
Speaker 2: but the creative centers were largely London in New York,

361
00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:22,480
Speaker 2: so let's just extended Los Angeles. In those days, poly

362
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Speaker 2: Phonogram UK would sign acts exclusively for UK and America

363
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Speaker 2: wouldn't have the rights to the Dire Straits was one

364
00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:32,239
Speaker 2: of those bands. Metallica was a banned like that. They

365
00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:34,600
Speaker 2: weren't signed to PolyGram for the world. And so when

366
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Speaker 2: a guy called Dick Asher took over, who would run

367
00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,200
Speaker 2: a CBS role When when Dick took over PolyGram, part

368
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:42,359
Speaker 2: of the edict was to sign things for the world.

369
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Speaker 2: So and they want up their presence as a West

370
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Speaker 2: Coast creative center. So there was a head of A

371
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Speaker 2: and R at PolyGram at the time. A guy called

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Speaker 2: Dick wynd Gate shout out to Dick Richards, Yeah and

373
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:58,760
Speaker 2: uh so. Asher apparently had had a thing in his

374
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Speaker 2: mind of who he was going to hire for this

375
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Speaker 2: West Coast situation. But wing Gate and some of the

376
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:04,520
Speaker 2: A and R guys in the New York office felt

377
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:06,760
Speaker 2: he was going old, they want somebody younger.

378
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Speaker 3: And I was going to ask you, is he well liked?

379
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,880
Speaker 3: Who only know the name Dick Asher?

380
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,479
Speaker 1: Because if you're a fan of liner notes, uh I

381
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:20,640
Speaker 1: believe on fear of Black Planet, Public Enemy wrote and

382
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,959
Speaker 1: fuck Dick Asher. We got Bill Stephanie watching our backs

383
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Speaker 1: and I was like, well, what does that mean?

384
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Speaker 3: Dick was cool or he was just an executive.

385
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:33,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, Dick was cool. It was great to me. Once again,

386
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:36,760
Speaker 2: sidebar story that I was having a conversation with my

387
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,600
Speaker 2: pops at one point after PolyGram had offered me the deal.

388
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:41,879
Speaker 2: You made me an offer, made me my offer, and

389
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Speaker 2: I said, well, tell me, baby, tell me about the deal.

390
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:46,080
Speaker 2: I told him, ran the deal down to him, and

391
00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:48,600
Speaker 2: when he sat in digest its, damn, sounds like you

392
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:57,399
Speaker 2: found old fashioned nigga lover. So those are kind of

393
00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:03,560
Speaker 2: hard to find these days. Dick was great to me.

394
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,040
Speaker 2: Dick was absolutely wonderful, you know, and afford to be

395
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:08,280
Speaker 2: a great opportunity there.

396
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,600
Speaker 3: I see. All right, So what where were you born?

397
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,320
Speaker 2: Born here in l A, all right, Saint John's Hospital,

398
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Speaker 2: Santa Monica.

399
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Speaker 3: Do you remember your very first musical memory?

400
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:20,000
Speaker 2: I do? What is it being? My parents were having

401
00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,160
Speaker 2: a party. We were living I was born in Santa Monica.

402
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,919
Speaker 2: We were living in Hollywood. My parents were having a party.

403
00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:29,560
Speaker 2: I was apparently like two or three years old. They

404
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:31,240
Speaker 2: were having a party in the house and a whole

405
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,760
Speaker 2: bunch of bird was there. Billie Holiday and different people

406
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,160
Speaker 2: were at the crib, and uh, this is all going

407
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 2: on on the house.

408
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:48,760
Speaker 12: You know, Wait, you were in this lifetime when Charlie Bird.

409
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:49,960
Speaker 2: Parker was was a life.

410
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,720
Speaker 10: Yeah, and you've seen or you've been in the presidence

411
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 10: of Billie Holliday once is basically, But the story is

412
00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:57,640
Speaker 10: even if you were too.

413
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:00,960
Speaker 2: My memory is because we had a two story house

414
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:03,720
Speaker 2: and the second floor. I somehow crawled out of my

415
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,119
Speaker 2: bed and there was you know, the second story and

416
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,199
Speaker 2: the you know, the things that hold them, and I

417
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,359
Speaker 2: was looking down at the party. My parents said they

418
00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:12,199
Speaker 2: looked up and they could feel a presence, and all

419
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:13,439
Speaker 2: of a sudden they looked up and there was my

420
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 2: little face looking down at everybody. You know. I was

421
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,280
Speaker 2: attracted to the music and the noise and the cacophony.

422
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,560
Speaker 3: And Billie Holliday.

423
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Speaker 1: All right, I mean more stories of your life, Like

424
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Speaker 1: give me a version of your childhood in which you

425
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Speaker 1: don't know that God's in the room with you. Like, oh,

426
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,560
Speaker 1: my parents once told me that whatever I went to

427
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,639
Speaker 1: the school with Jackie Jackson, Well that's a bad example.

428
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 2: But the best way I could answer that is just

429
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,240
Speaker 2: my dad was an avid golfer because he was on

430
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,480
Speaker 2: the road all the time, and when he'd come home

431
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,800
Speaker 2: from the road. He played golf a lot. And one

432
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 2: of the things that was always fun was we'd come

433
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 2: home from school, you know, because in our house you

434
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 2: had like a little bar sort of speakeasy area where

435
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 2: he used to chill after he played golf, and he

436
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 2: never knew when we come home was going to be

437
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:02,440
Speaker 2: in the crib with him. We played golf with that day,

438
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 2: had days where he'd come home and he was there

439
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 2: with Smokey or there with Marvin Gaye, or there with

440
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:08,200
Speaker 2: Sean Connery.

441
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 3: This is when he was on Motown, right.

442
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:14,680
Speaker 2: I know he signed in the mid sixties. Cool, but yeah,

443
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 2: this is this is mid sixties stuff. I'm like twelve

444
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,399
Speaker 2: thirteen years old at that point. So just little things

445
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:24,040
Speaker 2: like that. The other aspects of it, there were, there

446
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:27,720
Speaker 2: were moments because the whole Billy ecksteinness of it all

447
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,280
Speaker 2: was he was just Pops. But you know the fact

448
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,920
Speaker 2: that you know, people, my friend, my kid's parents reacted

449
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 2: more to him than you know, anything else, you know.

450
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 2: And one of things that Pop's always tried to do

451
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 2: to my brothers and I for my brothers and I

452
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 2: was demystify the business but also sort of put a

453
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 2: vibe on it to make us understand that although people

454
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 2: kind of went buck wild when when he was around,

455
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 2: that we had to realize that he was no better

456
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,200
Speaker 2: or no worse than anybody else than the people across

457
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 2: the street who had you know, regular quote unquote regular jobs.

458
00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 2: His just happened to be in lights and people got

459
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:04,360
Speaker 2: excited about it. So that was really that was sort

460
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 2: of a God moment in its own way of just

461
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,159
Speaker 2: you know that how life was. You know, Pops is

462
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 2: just you know, Pops, so many brothers and you have

463
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 2: there's seven of us. Where do you fall? I fall

464
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 2: in the middle. It's five boys, two girls, two older

465
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 2: three older brothers, two of whom are deceased now, and

466
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 2: then then me and then my little brother and two

467
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 2: younger sisters.

468
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 3: Any of all those siblings they go into music anyway.

469
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 2: Well, my brother guys a producer and a manager, and

470
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,119
Speaker 2: and my youngest sister, our youngest sister, Gene is a singer.

471
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 3: As as a child or as a teen.

472
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 1: Would other adults annoy you if they start singing to

473
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 1: you like Moody's mood or anything like that, Your dad.

474
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 2: Is really sort of get to us, was you know,

475
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 2: collective because he was on the road so much, you know,

476
00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 2: and the only time we really talked to him was

477
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 2: on the road was on Sunday nights. You know, hear

478
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,120
Speaker 2: from him. You know, Dad, I hit a home run

479
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 2: on Tuesday by blah blah, you're that kind of shit.

480
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 2: So when he was home, there were very valuable, cherished moments.

481
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 2: If we went out to dinner as a family, invariably

482
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 2: there's somebody to come. Ah, mister b I saw you

483
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 2: in Moleen, Illinois in nineteen fifty one, you know, and

484
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 2: we're trying to talk to Pops. And you know, we

485
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 2: were sort of taught slash train that you know that

486
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 2: the fans are the lifeblood of you know, of us

487
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,440
Speaker 2: having the ability to live the lives that we live.

488
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:29,439
Speaker 2: So just kind of smile your way through it, you know,

489
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,919
Speaker 2: be polite, be nice, and Pops would handle it from there.

490
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:33,479
Speaker 2: And if you if they stayed a little too long

491
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 2: to say, hey baby, I'm trying to have dinner with

492
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 2: my family here, you know, and then if they stayed long,

493
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 2: said get the fuck out of here.

494
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 1: You know, I was I was going to issue a

495
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 1: mandate like none of you do there I go reference.

496
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,400
Speaker 5: So any what if you got us to do it,

497
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 5: then we'd do it where you'd want us to do

498
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:50,120
Speaker 5: it so much.

499
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 4: Did you have peers in that way though, is as

500
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 4: you were part of this kind of music musical family.

501
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 4: Did you have other kids that kind of felt the

502
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,199
Speaker 4: pains that you were going to through because their parents

503
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 4: weren't one tour.

504
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 2: And ish But we're I grew up in Sino, California,

505
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:07,879
Speaker 2: So we're the only black family there till the Jackson.

506
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 2: There are people and so the Jackson's got.

507
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 4: There, Okay, So y'all were there first, right because he's.

508
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 2: Your dad, Yeah, and so any of the Sino at

509
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 2: that point it still is. In the San Fernando Valley

510
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 2: in Cina was basically two lane dirt road with orange

511
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 2: groves and a lot of almond trees and shit, And

512
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 2: then somewhere in the late late fifties became a bit

513
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 2: of a go West young man syndrome. A lot of

514
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 2: folks moving out to the hills there and a significant

515
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 2: port because with the expanse of the film and TV

516
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 2: business out here, and a lot of the folks that

517
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 2: moved to that part of the valley were business people,

518
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 2: largely Jewish from New York, from other parts of the

519
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 2: country and certain parts of the city here were redlined

520
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 2: that you know, certain Jews and Blacks couldn't live in

521
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 2: certain areas. So the valley became the area of development,

522
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 2: you know, of of principal development, and the line of

523
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 2: demarcation in the San Fernanda Valley is in tro Boulevard.

524
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 2: And a lot of the kids I grew up with were,

525
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,360
Speaker 2: you know, Mo Austin's kids, Eddie Rosenblatt kids, different shiz

526
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,199
Speaker 2: show biz kids, you know, making movies of the selves

527
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 2: as Steely Dan said, right, and don't give a fuck

528
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 2: about nobody else.

529
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 4: So so they were your peers, but they really weren't

530
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:16,880
Speaker 4: your pee.

531
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, there were peers, and since their parents weren't performers.

532
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 2: But you know, there were some my older brothers, like

533
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,159
Speaker 2: my second and third my second oldest brother went to

534
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 2: high school with Sally Field and uh and cheer. So yeah,

535
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:34,159
Speaker 2: she went to school. Had had a moment about this

536
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 2: was called fifteen years ago. It was during the the

537
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 2: Kobe shack Laker years. It was one of the playoffs

538
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 2: championship games. Sally Field happened to be standing in front

539
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 2: of me at that game and in the stand. Since

540
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 2: I tapped her on the shoulder and said she said hello,

541
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,160
Speaker 2: and said you went to high school with my brothers,

542
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 2: and she kind of looked gave me a quizzical look

543
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 2: of like, you know, to the sun Town. I was like,

544
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 2: wait a minute, no, none of you motherfuckers said right right,

545
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,160
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you're kid. And Ron's brother.

546
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:07,479
Speaker 3: Instantly new so well, actually, I asked, okay. I asked

547
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 3: the Jacksons the same question, but now that I know

548
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 3: that you were there first, First of all, were you

549
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 3: aware of the situation that you were placed in? I

550
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 3: asked them what is it to be?

551
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 1: Because I, you know, I always considered the Jacksons the

552
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 1: first post civil rights result, like all that that between

553
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 1: you know, reconstruction, slavery and civil rights.

554
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 3: And then you get to this point post sixty eight.

555
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: Where the idea of freedom or the idea of pursuit

556
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: of happiness whatever, and the Jacksons sort.

557
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 3: Of took that. And I asked him, like, what was

558
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 3: it like.

559
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 1: Navigating in those first five years in Encino in Los Angeles?

560
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 1: You know, I've seen the photos. You guys have roles,

561
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 1: voices and fancy cars, see and roaster and all that stuff.

562
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: And Marlon was like yeah, and no routinely got stopped

563
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 1: by cops and all and stuff.

564
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 3: So were you aware that was like proceed with caution

565
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 3: or was.

566
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 2: It like yeah, very aware, partially because how we were raised.

567
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 2: You know, my dad was very active in the civil

568
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 2: rights movement, and the conversation around the dinner table or

569
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 2: all meals actually was either showbiz or the civil rights

570
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 2: move because civil rights movement played out on TV every

571
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 2: night on Walter Cronkite and stuff like that, and Pops

572
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 2: was was close with Doctor King's, close with Malcolm. So

573
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 2: as a result, we were very aware of who we

574
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 2: were and what was up, you know, my parents pretty much.

575
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 2: That was one of the things they hammered home to us.

576
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 2: You know, don't for one minute start thinking you're white

577
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 2: open here. You know, it's this is the reality of

578
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 2: your existence, you know.

579
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 4: Which you must have confused people a little bit visually

580
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 4: as well.

581
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 2: Well. And I realized that some of that too was

582
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 2: you know, because there's a certain amount of ethnic ambiguity,

583
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 2: you know, inherent to uh, to the suntan right and

584
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 2: then you know, and and the hair at the time

585
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 2: and uh and as a result, you know, there's but

586
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 2: there was always a kid every year in school, the

587
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 2: one stepped to one of my brothers and nigger, you know,

588
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 2: he pop somebody in the face and then uh, and

589
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 2: then you'd get sent to the principal's office and then

590
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 2: they said, well, we're gonna call your parents. And you

591
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 2: didn't want my mom coming down. You know, Mom was

592
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 2: straight out of Georgia, Thomas and Georgia. She wouldn't have it.

593
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 2: So she was like, you know, if they don't hit

594
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 2: those people, if they don't punch them, you know, when

595
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 2: they get home, they's go be their ass. That was

596
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 2: that was that was our reality. But yeah, the Jackson's

597
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 2: period was was cool because I that's when I first

598
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 2: met them and John McClain. During that period of time,

599
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 2: I was. I was. I went to a boarding school

600
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 2: in western Pennsylvania, a place called the Kiski School outside

601
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 2: of Pittsburgh. Actually, Jake, your your producer, went to one

602
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 2: of rival schools. So I was at the school Pennsylvania

603
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 2: and one of my really close friends here was was

604
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 2: screwing up in school here and he got sent to

605
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 2: a private school, private day school here in town, which

606
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 2: was where Motown sent to Jackson's once they could no

607
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 2: longer go to public school here, a place called the

608
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 2: Walton School. So when I come home on vacations, our

609
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 2: vacations were out of sink with my friends vacations here.

610
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 2: So ostensibly my days would end up being spend either

611
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 2: hanging out with my mom because Pops was on the road,

612
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 2: hanging out mom going doing what mom was gonna do,

613
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 2: or sit at home and just listening to records all day,

614
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 2: which I did a fair share of that, and play

615
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 2: my guitar. But my buddy was like, Doude, once you

616
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 2: come to the come down to my school and hang

617
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 2: out with us. Jackson's are here, blah blah blah blah blah.

618
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 2: All the honeys are on the Jackson's hard And I

619
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 2: was in an all boys school, so I mean I'm in.

620
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 2: So I started going to show up to show up

621
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 2: on the campus. Yeah, we did, and play ball and

622
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:43,239
Speaker 2: we played ball all day and that's where I met

623
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 2: met those guys. And Mike was Mike was little, you know,

624
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 2: chasing insects and rats around.

625
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 3: Right, sounds about right. It sounds about right.

626
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 1: What was your Do you remember the first album you

627
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 1: ever purchased.

628
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 2: First album I ever purchased was Meet the Beatles? First

629
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 2: single ever, which was My Girl.

630
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 5: Where's the family record collection?

631
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 3: Yeah? Where is the family record collection?

632
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 2: I had? I sold my vinyl about fifteen years ago.

633
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 2: I had, you know, fifteen thousand pieces sold.

634
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 3: Okay on behalf of.

635
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 2: On pay bill. Yeah, long story, long story, but yeah,

636
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 2: I sold it and then, uh, mom and Dad's collection.

637
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 2: I still have a bunch of it, you know, but

638
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 2: they had a fair share, not a lot. Some of

639
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 2: this guy sold. I got a great story that we

640
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 2: had a lady who was a housekeeper for us in

641
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 2: the late fifties when Ray Charles was blown up with

642
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 2: all the Atlantic records, and mom and pops loved those records,

643
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 2: so they had all the Ray Charles album you know,

644
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 2: the early Ray Charles records. They came home from tour

645
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 2: at one point, went to get to put their Ray

646
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 2: Charles joints on. They weren't there, and they're like, where's

647
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 2: the records in this one housekeeper, lady Gussie Gussie Gussie,

648
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 2: you know, pinched the records. So she she she left,

649
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 2: and Mom and Dad told us, look, all's forgiven, just

650
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 2: bring the records back, you know, you gotta have your

651
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 2: job back. No, she didn't want the job back. She

652
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 2: kept the fucking records.

653
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 4: Her family.

654
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 3: Right now, now I got to check my collection.

655
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:17,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, so Jesus Christ, when you sell a record collection,

656
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: that means you're really that music is in the rear

657
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 1: view mirror.

658
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 2: Well I ever, I just digitized everything. But yeah, I

659
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 2: mean I.

660
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 3: Love you know, I need tangible proof, tactile thing I did.

661
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 5: Something in the end of Man is judged by his

662
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 5: record collection pretty much.

663
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 3: People come in my house, That's the first thing they do.

664
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 1: They like, what are you listening to?

665
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 3: That sort of thing, and you know, look at stuff.

666
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:45,959
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was known for it because when I used

667
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 2: to go to go to Kiski school is called Kiskie.

668
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 2: When I kis come up with the holidays, I always

669
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 2: have three or four foot lockers filled with vinyl, filled

670
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 2: with records. They took me so all the kids school

671
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 2: do me as a record guy? You know? Can I

672
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 2: ask a little follow? Yeah?

673
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 3: Good question.

674
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 5: So the first two records you bought, The Beatles and

675
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 5: My Girl.

676
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 2: Yeah?

677
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 5: How did those first to purchase shape your taste in

678
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:09,439
Speaker 5: music and career?

679
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 2: I was the Beatles on Ed Sullivan kid. You know,

680
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 2: when I saw the Beatles and Ed Sullivan I was like,

681
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 2: I want to play guitar. I wanted to play drums first,

682
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 2: but moms wouldn't happen it, right, I ain't gonna have

683
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 2: all that noise over in my house, So so I

684
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,319
Speaker 2: play guitar, and then I got a guitar, you know,

685
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 2: later that year for my birthday. Don't play well, but

686
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 2: I collect him pretty well. But my son actually is

687
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 2: this prolific player, prodigious player. And my girl was just

688
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 2: because I love the single, you know, the lick and

689
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,879
Speaker 2: all that stuff. Yeah, yeah, And I always tell the story.

690
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:40,879
Speaker 2: People say, what do you sing? You sing like your dad.

691
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 2: So I must have been like eleven, and I was

692
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:45,840
Speaker 2: singing my girl in the show. My dad opened the

693
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 2: shower to stop singing. Boy closed the shower and walked away.

694
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 2: Billy XI tells me not to sing. I'm not going

695
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 2: to sing.

696
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 1: I was going to say, that's where the billy he

697
00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 1: ain't really works the prince. So I would assume being

698
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 1: a young teenager in the late sixties early seventies, uh,

699
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,319
Speaker 1: and being in the position that you're in, you've been

700
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 1: privy to many a concert experience. Can you give me

701
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 1: your top three concert going experiences as a kid?

702
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, kid meaning under twenty one or just whenever.

703
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 1: All right, well, give me your your what's the first

704
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: concert you went to? That's not your dad, but even then,

705
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,879
Speaker 1: I'm certain that your dad's done festivals and stuff you've seen.

706
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, so you gotta include your dad.

707
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 2: I want to see Marvin gay at what's now a

708
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 2: club called Cerroo's with my older brother when he was

709
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 2: when he was in college. I was like eight or

710
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 2: nine years old, pre beard Marvin Gaye, yeah, when he

711
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,720
Speaker 2: still still suits, you know, yeah, stubborn kind of fellow

712
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 2: Mark early.

713
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 3: Was it just like man? Or did you it?

714
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 2: Because I loved all that shit?

715
00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:57,799
Speaker 3: Yeah?

716
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I loved all And there used to be

717
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 2: a theater out in the valley in Woodland Hills called

718
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 2: the Valley Music Theater. It was one of those theaters

719
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,760
Speaker 2: in the round. Valley Music Theater used to do shows.

720
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,760
Speaker 2: And this was before the rock and roll industrial complex,

721
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:13,840
Speaker 2: as we've come to know it came to Puish and

722
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,760
Speaker 2: came to life. And in those days, all this baby

723
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 2: rock bands were out here making records, but there was

724
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 2: really they're having hits, but there was nowhere for them

725
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 2: to play. They weren't touring, so they would do a

726
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 2: lot of promotion shows for local pop station r KRLA,

727
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,360
Speaker 2: and so Carol A did a show at the Valley

728
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 2: Music Theater of like the Doors, The Birds, The Buffalo, Springfield,

729
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 2: three other bands I'm not thinking of right now. I

730
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,799
Speaker 2: remember cutting going out one night, you know, on my

731
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,320
Speaker 2: bike riding to the game. My parents were work. My

732
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:43,479
Speaker 2: dad was on the road. Mom was with him going

733
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,839
Speaker 2: to that gig and then you know, down the road,

734
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 2: you know once a, you know, professionally Stones nineteen seventy

735
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 2: three at the Forum.

736
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 3: Oh se you saw a post exile show.

737
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, absolutely. When they did the tour with the

738
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 2: Lotus Flower that opened, you know, yeah opened like they

739
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 2: opened a honky talk woman and Mick was hanging off

740
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 2: the front front Pedes tour. Yeah, it was great.

741
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 3: Was Stevie opening for them?

742
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 2: Maybe Stevie was with Ray Parker and Ali and the band.

743
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,879
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, and uh Denise Williams.

744
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 2: Do yep, exactly.

745
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 3: She She gave a lot of debaucherous stories about that.

746
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 2: And then Bootsy Bootsy at the Forum nineteen seventy eight,

747
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 2: you know, post the year, yeah, post post the Pfunk

748
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 2: Earth tour, but just Bootsy play the thing, you know,

749
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:41,360
Speaker 2: with uh, you know, with Macio doing the the opening

750
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:49,399
Speaker 2: high Bootsy, you know, you know, the place, the whole

751
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 2: forum was just shaken. It was amazing.

752
00:37:56,000 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: So by the mid seventies or even in the late sixties,

753
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:05,319
Speaker 1: are you trying to figure out what your path or

754
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:08,360
Speaker 1: what your goal in life was like? And I'm certain

755
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 1: everyone asked you, like, and what do you want to

756
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 1: be when you grew Like, all right, so when you

757
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 1: were twelve, what did you want to be when you

758
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 1: grew up?

759
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 2: I wanted to pitch for the Dodgers. I want to

760
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 2: be in the Black Sandy Kofax.

761
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 3: Oh okay, this was up. So when you were in

762
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 3: tenth grade fifteen sixteen, did that change?

763
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 2: Yeah? I still wanted me Cofax, but I was mourned

764
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 2: to me. I was also into music at that point,

765
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,720
Speaker 2: and in those days, the Twain hadn't met yet. Where

766
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 2: you know, basically jocks were jocks, and you know, it

767
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 2: was very much sort of beer frat shit, you know,

768
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,319
Speaker 2: whereas music was hipper, you know, and the girls were there.

769
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:49,280
Speaker 2: And so I was like, yeah, I don't know, sports

770
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 2: things cool, but no, and then it's certain when I

771
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:53,760
Speaker 2: got to college it all sort of went up and smoked.

772
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 2: What kind of smoke, indo smoke.

773
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 3: Yes. By the time you got out of high school,

774
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,320
Speaker 3: Uh huh, would you say, then, that's when you saw

775
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 3: your path too.

776
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I knew I pretty much wanted to pursue something

777
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 2: in the music business because right out of high school

778
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:11,320
Speaker 2: I did not want to go to college. Immediately. I

779
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 2: wanted to take the you know, the bridge year as

780
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 2: they called them in those days. Okay, and my parents

781
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 2: weren't having that, you know, my parents were immediately what

782
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 2: college was this Boston University?

783
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:21,319
Speaker 3: Oh shit?

784
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:23,799
Speaker 2: Okay, So my parents weren't having it. You know, there

785
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,319
Speaker 2: was a striver thing and all that stuff, and if

786
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 2: you go to Europe it means you're never coming back

787
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 2: to college. Blah blah blah. So my interest was music.

788
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 2: You know, I figured, you know, I love my parents deally,

789
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 2: but I wanted to get as far away from them

790
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 2: as possible, which is la. I went to Boston, and

791
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,240
Speaker 2: Boston had a very thriving music scene in those days.

792
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 2: That's it still does, you know, significant college population. So

793
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 2: I just immersed myself in that.

794
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 3: It's kept me a live.

795
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 2: Used to walk down the street. Aerosmith was a local band.

796
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 2: They're playing in front of the student union. Jay gilesman

797
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 2: Peter Wolf was still on the radio in Boston. Giles

798
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:57,240
Speaker 2: band was playing.

799
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,360
Speaker 3: You got to witness these people when they were just upstarts.

800
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 2: To see Aerosmith every freaking day, it seemed, playing on

801
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 2: Commonwealth Avenue in front of the BU student Union, you know,

802
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 2: doing the same stick that they did. You know, a

803
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 2: zillion years later and cut to nineteen seventy three, seventy four.

804
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 2: I'm here back home in LA I'm driving down the

805
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 2: freeway and I'm listening to a rock station k Los

806
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 2: and dream On plays and your dream. I have that

807
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 2: moment where they called something here's why do I know

808
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 2: that song? I know it's from somewhere. It was so

809
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 2: out of context. And when when the guy fys, oh,

810
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 2: there are new bad boys from Boston Aerosmith, I was like,

811
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 2: oh shit, those motherfuckers got So.

812
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 3: There have been a few guests on our show.

813
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 1: What earlier you mentioned a and m exact oh John

814
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 1: McClean that we always miss so you know, I mean,

815
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:47,799
Speaker 1: we've had guests on the show, notably Lenny Kravitz telling

816
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 1: me of a period especially like.

817
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 3: Between seventy five.

818
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:58,879
Speaker 1: In eighty one, eighty two in which kind of black Hollywood,

819
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 1: black young Holly would That world was so small that

820
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 1: you had to know the Carrie Gordy's, the Cravis's, the Medina's,

821
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 1: like anybody in Apollo. Were you ever sort of associated

822
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 1: or inducted in that circle? Because everyone seems to have

823
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 1: known each other. We can never get John McClean on

824
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 1: the show. And I'm mad as hell.

825
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 2: I knew people, I knew them, but I didn't hang

826
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 2: you know, I was in it, but not of it

827
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:29,319
Speaker 2: because I had my own little sort of world at

828
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 2: that point, and that was earlier part of seventy five.

829
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 2: I was already working for Quincy by then. But you know,

830
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 2: seventy two to seventy three period, that's when I first

831
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 2: got in the game as a writer. That's when I

832
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 2: first started doing writing for Soul magazine at the time.

833
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:43,439
Speaker 3: You wrote for Soul.

834
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 2: That was my first gig.

835
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,839
Speaker 3: Shit, you know how much money I just put down

836
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 3: for back issues of Soul? That is crazy.

837
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:52,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. Actually, the way I ended up there was I

838
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 2: was there was a kid that I grew up with

839
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,359
Speaker 2: in my neighborhood, a guy called David Guest. David lived

840
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:03,280
Speaker 2: somewhat infamy as the guy was married somewhat.

841
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 3: Yeah sure, and U wait, what don't you family?

842
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 2: And David and I grew up, grew up Ansino together,

843
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 2: and uh, you know he was he was a record

844
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 2: troll too. I see David a lot in the music stores.

845
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:18,399
Speaker 2: We had different pursuits because I was the guitar player.

846
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:21,320
Speaker 2: I was into gitar you know, guitar rock stuff. David

847
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 2: was was into girl groups and ship. So we had

848
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 2: this thing, you know, mississ and whoever got on first

849
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 2: would pull the other along. So David was writing for

850
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 2: Soul at that point, and uh he.

851
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 3: He wrote for Soul magazine. Well, okay, wait for it.

852
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,840
Speaker 2: So so I used to tag along with him to

853
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 2: shows and stuff because in those days l A the

854
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 2: sort of deal here was like Monday nights stuff would

855
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 2: happen at the Whiskey, Tuesday night was opening is at

856
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 2: the Troubadour. Wednesdays with the Roxy Roxy was opened. By

857
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,799
Speaker 2: Thursday night would be a total experience down the hood

858
00:42:56,080 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 2: and from Friday Friday Saturday, Friday Friday Saturday night would

859
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 2: be concerts. So I would tag with David and as

860
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 2: and in those days the press was treated with a

861
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 2: certain level of dare I say respect or cater to.

862
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:13,399
Speaker 2: And so I would, I would, I would, I would

863
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 2: hang with my man and get in the rooms, and

864
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 2: you know, obviously be in this tall tall dude, tall

865
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 2: black dude in the rooms. There weren't a lot of

866
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 2: us there. So as a result, one of the things

867
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 2: that happened was I would see the shows with David.

868
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 2: And David could hardly write his name, let alone write

869
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 2: a story. And because I'd gone to a school that

870
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,800
Speaker 2: you know, English was you know, put upon us, I

871
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:34,280
Speaker 2: wrote all his stories. It wasn't like it was exactly

872
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:38,839
Speaker 2: true joints. I wrote his joints. So one day David

873
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 2: had gotten hired by London Records to work with Al

874
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 2: Green for Hot with High and UH, and he went

875
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:46,399
Speaker 2: into Regina and Regina and the editor at the time,

876
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 2: he said, I'm leaving. I'm going to do this, blah blah, David.

877
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 2: We don't want you to leave. We'll need the stuff

878
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 2: so much, all that ship, you know, on and on.

879
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 2: David says, well, you like my stuff so much, meet

880
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 2: the guy who's been writing it, and and from stage

881
00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 2: left here I come and uh, and they signed me

882
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:02,959
Speaker 2: something and I wrote a couple you know, I wrote,

883
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,360
Speaker 2: I wrote for him for about a year. That is crazy.

884
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 1: Okay, So you mentioned those clubs, and this is what

885
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 1: I want to know. So my period of la obviously,

886
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:17,799
Speaker 1: I came after I came in on the tail end

887
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 1: of whatever the former scene was, where like Sunset Boulevard

888
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 1: was sort of a safe right well, it was also

889
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 1: the Death Road period, so say after ninety eight, it

890
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 1: was more you know anyway, you know what I'm trying

891
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 1: to get at.

892
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 3: But if you are wanting to hang with like where

893
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:46,800
Speaker 3: it's hip and your people's like, is the Total Experience

894
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:48,359
Speaker 3: club the only option in town?

895
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 2: Mavericks Flats another club I've heard of that?

896
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 3: Now, where's that at?

897
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 2: Right down the street from on crnscheall right down the

898
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:56,879
Speaker 2: street from when the Total Experience.

899
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 3: Was so it was no thing to hang on Crenshaw

900
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 3: in the seventies or in the eighties.

901
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 2: It was well, well, Mavericks and Total Experience in the

902
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,880
Speaker 2: eighties maybe the Comedy Act theater. Okay, you know there

903
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 2: was stuff to do there.

904
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 3: Comedy Act is where like Robin Harrison.

905
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, that's how I signed up.

906
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 3: Damn, that's right, you signed Robin Harris.

907
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:16,320
Speaker 2: I got that.

908
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:20,799
Speaker 1: So for you, though, were you an open format fan,

909
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 1: as in Okay, I'm gonna see Arrismith one night and

910
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 1: the next night, I'm gonna see Rufus next night.

911
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,840
Speaker 2: Absolutely country, whatever the case may be. You know, I

912
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 2: get it.

913
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:31,959
Speaker 1: Were you at all and see the La punk scene

914
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 1: like not much, not much, so you didn't see like

915
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 1: bands like X or nothing.

916
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:39,760
Speaker 2: I did see X, did see Missing Persons, Chili Peppers

917
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:42,480
Speaker 2: with the Chili Peppers, So.

918
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:46,719
Speaker 1: We were like those pre skoy Fish bony post punk

919
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:47,839
Speaker 1: band Where would they.

920
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:51,320
Speaker 2: Play Madam Wongs Madame Woks was a Chinese restaurant on

921
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:57,840
Speaker 2: on Wilshire Boulevard, Don Don Brentwood, Borderline, Brentwood, Santa Monica,

922
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 2: and then also there was Madame Wongs downtown. They would

923
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 2: play there, or the star Wood, which was at Los

924
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:10,239
Speaker 2: Sienega in Santa Monica Boulevard. Isn't that still a or

925
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 2: of Creston Heights and Santa Minchael Boulevard. It's not there anymore.

926
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 2: I think it's been developed into like a mini mall

927
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 2: or something. But that was a place where Van Halen

928
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 2: emerged from, and I remember seeing Clinton do the Uncle

929
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:27,839
Speaker 2: Jam Tour there, Uncle Jam Jam Show there, Funkadelic show.

930
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 3: Okay, you mentioned working for Quincy. What was your first

931
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 3: industry get?

932
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,320
Speaker 2: Well, they paid me any money or just period because

933
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:39,879
Speaker 2: where you start soul music thing and then also soul

934
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:41,839
Speaker 2: magazine thing. And also I had a gig at Rogers

935
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 2: and Collen one summer PR from Big Time PR from

936
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 2: here Intown. They were looking after Stacks, uh, and the

937
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 2: guy who was who was the head publicist there, a

938
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 2: guy called Sandy Friedman. Sandy hired me to do some

939
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:58,840
Speaker 2: writing for them. I was working in the mailroom. Actually

940
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:01,760
Speaker 2: Deanie Parker, who was ahead of PR for for Stacks,

941
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 2: recommended me for this job. Al Bell recommended for the

942
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 2: job actually in the mail room at Rogers and Cowen,

943
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:11,279
Speaker 2: and Uh, I was you know, I was token black kid.

944
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 2: Did they hired because they had a black account And

945
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:16,280
Speaker 2: so I was there and did that for a minute.

946
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 1: And you wait, guys, we we just had a guest

947
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:23,840
Speaker 1: on the show that also started out as PR and remote.

948
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I was trying to get mine. Have you

949
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 3: ran into him in circles before? Okay, now I get it,

950
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:34,000
Speaker 3: I get it.

951
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:37,640
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, so you so the time, did.

952
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 3: You think you're going to start as a publicist.

953
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 2: Or I kind of was that. I mean, Quincy initially

954
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 2: hired me. That's pretty much what I was there to do.

955
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 2: You know, I was there to sort of blow up.

956
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:49,240
Speaker 2: He called me a pigmy stretcher. He said, go stretch

957
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 2: some fucking pigmies and that's Quincy pylons. Yeah, so he

958
00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:59,359
Speaker 2: hired me to as he said, I'll make the music,

959
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:01,840
Speaker 2: you make the no and uh and that that was

960
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 2: kind of what I did. So, Sarah, you basically do

961
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:06,719
Speaker 2: pr marketing and sort of keep an eye on his

962
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:09,719
Speaker 2: interest at the record company. And I was floating around

963
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 2: the n M a lot people looking at me like,

964
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:12,839
Speaker 2: who is this nigga? What's he doing here? What's he doing?

965
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 3: And this was it.

966
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:16,280
Speaker 2: This is for Quest Records, Quincy Jones Productions.

967
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:18,439
Speaker 3: So it was just like doing the sounds and stuff

968
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 3: like that period or body heat, body heat.

969
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 1: So he the reason why he did a really random

970
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 1: guest on Soul Train, like with the brothers Johnson is my.

971
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:31,799
Speaker 2: Brother playing drums, my little brother playing drums. Yeah, yeah,

972
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:32,760
Speaker 2: guys playing drums.

973
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 3: Oh my god, oh my god. Oh I'm sorry now

974
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:44,320
Speaker 3: to watch it. What are your relationships like?

975
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:47,760
Speaker 1: Because I know now for instans like there's former interns

976
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 1: of mine at the Tonight show that then interned that

977
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:55,319
Speaker 1: record labels and maybe in a year or two they'll

978
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:57,799
Speaker 1: figure out, Okay, my n R, my publicist or whatever.

979
00:48:58,200 --> 00:48:59,399
Speaker 3: There's a system to go through.

980
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 1: Are are you going through a road less traveled? Like

981
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:07,239
Speaker 1: in terms of publicity, like how do you know who

982
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 1: to market Quincy Jones?

983
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:10,840
Speaker 3: Too? Like do you know the people at People magazine?

984
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 3: Do you know if Rolling Stone's into them?

985
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 2: It was at that point it was just pull out

986
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 2: the gun and shoot where you may, you know, good luck,

987
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 2: you know. So it was just too I mean, at

988
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:27,400
Speaker 2: that point he had voluminous credits and not a lot

989
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:31,360
Speaker 2: of hits, you know, and my job is to basically

990
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 2: make those voluminous credits seem As I used to say

991
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 2: at the time, you say to people, you know Quincy Jones, Yeah,

992
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:40,479
Speaker 2: I know the name. What can you have? No idea?

993
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 2: People didn't really know what to attach the name to,

994
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 2: you know, and my jobs attached to I wanted to know.

995
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:48,160
Speaker 1: How potent he was pre off the wall in terms

996
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:51,879
Speaker 1: of like because I know the idea of Quincy Jones,

997
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 1: especially now, he's definitely the post thriller effect, and you know,

998
00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:58,840
Speaker 1: he's told me stories that even off the wall was

999
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 1: a hard selle because like they didn't want him, you know,

1000
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 1: the guy's old, past his prime.

1001
00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 2: Whatever. Well, actually the line was they said, he'll make

1002
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:08,400
Speaker 2: him sound. He'll make Michael sound like the brothers Johnson

1003
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:14,279
Speaker 2: and Brothers were, which Platinum was great, and Mike was like, okay, right,

1004
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,839
Speaker 2: I see that. But in terms of the potency, I mean,

1005
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:19,840
Speaker 2: obviously it was it was a build because when he

1006
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:23,280
Speaker 2: hired me. Ostensibly. The short of the very long story

1007
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:26,359
Speaker 2: is I was there to do an interview with him

1008
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 2: about Body Heat. I got a call from the publicity

1009
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:31,800
Speaker 2: department A and M asking me what I'm interested in

1010
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 2: talking to him about body Eat. So I listened to

1011
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:35,719
Speaker 2: the record, loved it, said I'd love to. And I

1012
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:37,920
Speaker 2: had known him since I was a kid because he

1013
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:40,360
Speaker 2: had conducted for my dad and and he had signed

1014
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:42,400
Speaker 2: my dad. He made some of my dad's records at

1015
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:45,040
Speaker 2: Mercury when he was head of A and rn't Mercury.

1016
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:48,880
Speaker 2: So we went. He told me to meet him at

1017
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 2: A and M because he was still doing his big

1018
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:53,759
Speaker 2: band down down at Disneyland. Disneyland used to do big

1019
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 2: band shows during the summer. Uh, he said, meet him

1020
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 2: in a. M met him in a and M got

1021
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 2: on the band bus, went down there. We sat backstage

1022
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:03,600
Speaker 2: and talked for you know, all night. He never did

1023
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:05,440
Speaker 2: do the interview, so come by the crib the next day.

1024
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:08,400
Speaker 2: I did, and talked more for twelve more hours. Never

1025
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 2: did do the interview, told me to come back Sunday

1026
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:12,360
Speaker 2: and do it again. We didn't again on Sunday, and

1027
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 2: I really never did do the interview. And I realized

1028
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 2: after it was all said and done, while I was

1029
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:19,160
Speaker 2: there to interview him, he was actually interviewing to me,

1030
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:22,400
Speaker 2: and the truth was he had. He explained to me

1031
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 2: something I came to realize years later. Quincy shed skin

1032
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 2: every seven years seven years or so. You know, he

1033
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:30,480
Speaker 2: makes changes overall, and changes and whatever he's working on,

1034
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 2: and he was about to make. He said to me,

1035
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:36,759
Speaker 2: body heat was indicative of many things he was. He

1036
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:39,320
Speaker 2: was moving away from the whole big band arrangement anything

1037
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:43,319
Speaker 2: to a more rhythm section based electronic R and B vox.

1038
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 2: And as he said to me, say man, he said,

1039
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 2: I feel like every day I'm going to film studios

1040
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:49,440
Speaker 2: doing this big band conducting thing, but I'm going home

1041
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:52,440
Speaker 2: at night listening to Stevie Rufus and Chako Ohio Players

1042
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:54,319
Speaker 2: and Earth Wind and Fire and he said, I want

1043
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:55,879
Speaker 2: to I want to jump in those waters. And that's

1044
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:59,760
Speaker 2: ostensibly what Body Heat was. And then you know, Body

1045
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:02,719
Speaker 2: Heat was his first gold record worked Melon Madness was

1046
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 2: you know, first platinum record, first golden platinum, and Brothers

1047
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:08,919
Speaker 2: Johnson Lookout for Number One was also platinum, the first

1048
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:11,400
Speaker 2: golden platinum albums by Black Arts the A and M

1049
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 2: had had and he just you know, slowly built it

1050
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 2: from there. You know, it's crazy. Yeah, I found your

1051
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:19,759
Speaker 2: brother by the way, Yep, yep, there is that back

1052
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 2: to my brother guy.

1053
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:30,399
Speaker 3: What is your How long did you stay with Quincy Jones?

1054
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 2: And he was there for eleven years from nineteen seventy

1055
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 2: three to nineteen eighty four.

1056
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:40,040
Speaker 3: Wow, who was the brain trust behind his branding?

1057
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:43,439
Speaker 1: Like I've never seen someone have their logo on someone

1058
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 1: else's record before.

1059
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, he said, he was like, I want to, I

1060
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:48,719
Speaker 2: want my logo on there, you know, and said we

1061
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 2: thought helped him fight for it.

1062
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:54,880
Speaker 3: But that's so unprecedented though, Like who knew to do that?

1063
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:55,239
Speaker 2: Like?

1064
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:56,319
Speaker 3: Is that is that the first?

1065
00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:56,520
Speaker 1: Uh?

1066
00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 8: What do you call the drop that every producer has like, oh,

1067
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 8: like a guy a producer tag like this music. No, no,

1068
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:08,840
Speaker 8: but seriously, I mean, if not to that extent, but no,

1069
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:12,319
Speaker 8: it really was great, Brandon, because every time you saw

1070
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:14,759
Speaker 8: that logo, you knew what the record was going to

1071
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:17,640
Speaker 8: sound you, at least for me as a kid, like

1072
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:20,840
Speaker 8: reading that and seeing Quincy Jones productions like, Okay, I

1073
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:23,800
Speaker 8: know I'm getting Polino Da Costa, Jerry Hay, I know

1074
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:26,359
Speaker 8: I'm getting Rod Tempersent, right, you know what I mean?

1075
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 8: It was already just kind of a building selling.

1076
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:30,600
Speaker 2: The other thing we said you to is when he

1077
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 2: was doing a new artist, So I said, Quincy Jones presents,

1078
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:35,200
Speaker 2: you know, Brothers Johnson or whatever.

1079
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:39,759
Speaker 3: At any point do you sort of elevate past like

1080
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:43,879
Speaker 3: doing this publicity to like actually working, So like, why

1081
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:47,400
Speaker 3: do you work with Patty Austin where it's weird, Like

1082
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:50,279
Speaker 3: I know, I believe she's this god daughter or.

1083
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:54,840
Speaker 4: Her I feel like forever?

1084
00:53:55,040 --> 00:54:00,040
Speaker 3: Right, So, like, what was your first big.

1085
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 2: Responsibility Brothers Brothers Johnson.

1086
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:03,239
Speaker 3: Really?

1087
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1088
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:06,200
Speaker 3: Okay? So for those three four.

1089
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:09,160
Speaker 2: Albums, ibserved for four records, from the first album through

1090
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:12,959
Speaker 2: through the st the Night. Okay, look out for number

1091
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:17,400
Speaker 2: one second record, right, on time, right on time, and the.

1092
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 1: Worst beating in my life. Well, you know, because they

1093
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:24,240
Speaker 1: jumped again. This is another impressible Americans in Trouble story.

1094
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,360
Speaker 1: You know, they're jumping on the album cover and the

1095
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:32,920
Speaker 1: I guess the camera right, And so I once I

1096
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 1: used to always go to my dad's band mates like

1097
00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 1: and try it jumping, and I jumped and dropped the

1098
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:46,440
Speaker 1: dad's guitar players and yeah, boy, and talk about lookout.

1099
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:47,760
Speaker 3: For number one. Number one was the belt.

1100
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:50,279
Speaker 2: You live to tell?

1101
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:50,919
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1102
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:54,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, Yeah, So, like, what were your duties in

1103
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:55,760
Speaker 3: terms of their projects?

1104
00:54:56,360 --> 00:55:00,440
Speaker 8: I was de facto manager, but really yeah, like a

1105
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:03,279
Speaker 8: project manager or like manager.

1106
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:05,919
Speaker 2: Of that product manager product as well as artist manager.

1107
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 2: You know, just sort of connected the dots on his

1108
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:11,200
Speaker 2: behalf because in the early days, the first three records,

1109
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:13,760
Speaker 2: yeah there were, Quincy had a management company called Mellow

1110
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:16,239
Speaker 2: Management and then and it was he basically he and

1111
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 2: I got a guy called Peter Long and Peter Long

1112
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:22,880
Speaker 2: actually was It's funny missed in Sesame Street. He was

1113
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:26,759
Speaker 2: married to uh along the red along, Yeah, exactly, and

1114
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:28,960
Speaker 2: Peter Peter was how long was he married to a

1115
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:29,399
Speaker 2: long time?

1116
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:30,719
Speaker 3: He played keyboards? Right? No?

1117
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 2: Uh no, He was a stage manager at the Apollo

1118
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:38,399
Speaker 2: and he and he ran the Apollo Kids. Luther came

1119
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:40,440
Speaker 2: through there. Now Rogers came through there.

1120
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:46,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Luther the only authorized book. That's how I know.

1121
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:51,080
Speaker 1: The name Luther kind of speaks of how like wanting

1122
00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:57,480
Speaker 1: Peter Long's approval of Like I guess Peter was sort

1123
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:00,960
Speaker 1: of like the doting father that you know, never gave.

1124
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:04,920
Speaker 2: He was very acerbic, right, and Luther.

1125
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 3: Always felt like no matter he would sell out consonants.

1126
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:09,279
Speaker 3: He was Luther Vangrosen.

1127
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:14,040
Speaker 1: Finally, like maybe the Busy Body tour, the Night I

1128
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:16,799
Speaker 1: Fell in Love tour, like Peter Long was like.

1129
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:18,360
Speaker 3: I'm proud of you.

1130
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:20,960
Speaker 1: You did well for yourself, and like Luther like cried,

1131
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:22,960
Speaker 1: like finally I made my dad proud, like that sort

1132
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:23,239
Speaker 1: of thing.

1133
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:25,480
Speaker 3: That's how I know Peter Long.

1134
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:29,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, Peter was the responsible adult because during the course

1135
00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 2: of the early period of my existence with Quincy, he

1136
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:33,840
Speaker 2: would always bring in because I was a kid. He

1137
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 2: hired me when I was nineteen, and he would always

1138
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:38,880
Speaker 2: bring in a so called responsible adult to kind of

1139
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:40,880
Speaker 2: you know, balance me out, you know, make sure I

1140
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:43,839
Speaker 2: didn't get two buck. And Peter was that guy.

1141
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:44,800
Speaker 3: Okay.

1142
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:47,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, so as a manager, and so I'm glad I'm

1143
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:49,960
Speaker 1: interviewing someone who was a manager in the seventies.

1144
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:58,240
Speaker 3: Were writers a thing? Yeah that okay, so similar to now.

1145
00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:01,960
Speaker 2: Ish but yeah, but you know now they're more pronounced,

1146
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:04,960
Speaker 2: and in those days, you know, it was primarily you know,

1147
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:08,600
Speaker 2: the black promoters consortium, you know, so you know, if

1148
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:10,840
Speaker 2: you tried that, I only want the red eminems like

1149
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:11,759
Speaker 2: nigga fuck all right.

1150
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:17,960
Speaker 1: So I later found out from David Lee Roth that

1151
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 1: they weren't separating the green eminems. If you don't know,

1152
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:27,400
Speaker 1: Van Halen was world famous for separating the brown eminem's

1153
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:30,840
Speaker 1: from the pile, and we thought that was the most

1154
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:34,080
Speaker 1: arrogant rock star the boucher shit ever but we later

1155
00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:38,800
Speaker 1: discovered that not true. Yeah, we later found out that

1156
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:41,520
Speaker 1: the reason why Van Halen had that in their writer

1157
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:47,439
Speaker 1: was because sometimes promoters would not read the writers at all.

1158
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:49,840
Speaker 3: To see if you're paying attention to details, right, And

1159
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:52,560
Speaker 3: so that was the that was the thing. Wait, one

1160
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:54,080
Speaker 3: more question about them.

1161
00:57:56,160 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 1: What happened in nineteen eighty one with the Winners record

1162
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:02,320
Speaker 1: and why didn't Quincy produced that album?

1163
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:04,560
Speaker 2: I was gone by that, I mean, I wasn't gone.

1164
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:10,040
Speaker 2: Then you know, guys wanted to Quincy got tired of

1165
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:12,680
Speaker 2: hearing Yeah, these records are great, but wait till you

1166
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:14,240
Speaker 2: hear what we do when we get a chance to

1167
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 2: do it ourselves, you know. And Quincy was like, okay,

1168
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 2: have some with that, right.

1169
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:21,520
Speaker 1: It's weird because it's not like they stopped working with

1170
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:24,680
Speaker 1: I mean, you know Lewis still yeah, exactly was working

1171
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:27,440
Speaker 1: with them. But in their mind they're like, did they

1172
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 1: feel as though they wanted to get a more modern

1173
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:30,480
Speaker 1: sound or you.

1174
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:32,280
Speaker 2: Thought they had graduated and were ready to get out

1175
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:34,320
Speaker 2: on their own, you know, ah, and.

1176
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:39,480
Speaker 3: You don't let that happen. Is this also a classic

1177
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:42,120
Speaker 3: case of like, you know, you got to let them

1178
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:42,959
Speaker 3: find out on their.

1179
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:45,280
Speaker 2: Own, and he did in their own way. And then

1180
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:47,400
Speaker 2: then also Quincy at that point is doing other stuff,

1181
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:50,840
Speaker 2: so you know, Mike mic and his own records, and.

1182
00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 3: So where did you jump to after that?

1183
00:58:54,120 --> 00:59:00,560
Speaker 2: After Ariston? I went to aristone eighty four. I started

1184
00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:03,600
Speaker 2: in January eighty five, I had uh, so.

1185
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:07,000
Speaker 1: It's kind of after you No, well, I mean I

1186
00:59:07,080 --> 00:59:09,560
Speaker 1: always consider Angelo Bouthfield like mine.

1187
00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:12,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I loved it, loved her, I loved her.

1188
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:16,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, what was he like because anytime she was on television,

1189
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:19,400
Speaker 1: she was the most her and Tota Vega was the

1190
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:23,840
Speaker 1: most eccentric humans I've ever seen get interviewed.

1191
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:26,400
Speaker 3: Right, she was and what was about her?

1192
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:26,640
Speaker 8: Like?

1193
00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:28,040
Speaker 3: Was he just does she have?

1194
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:28,320
Speaker 2: Like?

1195
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:29,840
Speaker 3: Was humor her shield?

1196
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:32,040
Speaker 2: I don't know. I was crushed out because you know,

1197
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:34,320
Speaker 2: she was on g RP and Gruson is one of

1198
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:35,760
Speaker 2: Quincy's closest friends, and it was.

1199
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:37,640
Speaker 3: D Dave Bruson really ran GRP.

1200
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:41,480
Speaker 2: He and Larry Larry Rosen. Yeah, and I remember when

1201
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:43,800
Speaker 2: she played here for the Angela Night record, you know,

1202
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:46,560
Speaker 2: big coming out party here in La and I was

1203
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 2: I was crushed out, crushed out fanboy. And uh, when

1204
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:55,360
Speaker 2: I got to Arista, they too tough, had just sort

1205
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:58,000
Speaker 2: of happened, had happened, and they were doing the Greatest

1206
00:59:58,040 --> 01:00:03,160
Speaker 2: Hits record, and Clive had me looking for songs for

1207
01:00:03,240 --> 01:00:05,200
Speaker 2: the Greatest Hits Record. You know they want to add

1208
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:07,600
Speaker 2: two extra song, Yeah, extra song. So we just song

1209
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:10,200
Speaker 2: called Still in Love that Derek Bramble produced and wrote.

1210
01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:14,040
Speaker 2: And uh, and she should call me high ed. She

1211
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:17,320
Speaker 2: had little little cutesy voice and she was, you know,

1212
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 2: said kind of eccentric. Yeah, she was cool she's.

1213
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:21,680
Speaker 4: Very under the moon and over the star.

1214
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:22,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

1215
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:28,200
Speaker 3: So what was working with prime Clive Davis?

1216
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 2: Like, well, nineteen eighty four, when Quincy and I stopped

1217
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:34,120
Speaker 2: working together, I got a call from Neil Port. Now

1218
01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:36,760
Speaker 2: Port now you know who ran the Grammys. And Neil

1219
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:38,320
Speaker 2: at that point was ahead of West head of the

1220
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:41,200
Speaker 2: West Coast for Arista. So he calls me because I

1221
01:00:41,240 --> 01:00:43,840
Speaker 2: knew him from from record business out here. He worked

1222
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:46,600
Speaker 2: for twenty Century Records, worked Verry White and stuff like that,

1223
01:00:47,160 --> 01:00:50,160
Speaker 2: Very White, and then James Inger, the original James's first

1224
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:53,800
Speaker 2: deal was actually a twentieth twentieth Century Wow. Yeah, we

1225
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:56,680
Speaker 2: jacked him basically from them. Okay, And Neil calls me

1226
01:00:56,760 --> 01:00:58,880
Speaker 2: one day in the office and and what's up. Neil says,

1227
01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:02,040
Speaker 2: there's a rumor that you're leaving Quincy. He said, it's

1228
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:04,360
Speaker 2: not a rumor. I said, I'm leaving. He said, would

1229
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:06,240
Speaker 2: you be interested in talking to Clive? It's because Jerry

1230
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:08,280
Speaker 2: Griffith is leaving. Jerry Griffith, being the guy who had

1231
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:10,840
Speaker 2: signed Whitney, found Whitney. He said, would you be interested

1232
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:12,920
Speaker 2: in talking to Clive? You know, I said yeah, sure,

1233
01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:14,800
Speaker 2: Because I was well aware of the legend of and

1234
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:17,640
Speaker 2: all that stuff, and had never met the man. Neil says,

1235
01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:19,880
Speaker 2: he said, there's just one thing to remember, and I said, well,

1236
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:22,800
Speaker 2: he said, Eris is a label of artists, and Clive's

1237
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:26,600
Speaker 2: the biggest artist on the label. And uh, oh, I

1238
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:29,360
Speaker 2: got you. So I got a call and met him

1239
01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:31,520
Speaker 2: over at the Beverly Hills Hotel. You know, the legendary

1240
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:35,480
Speaker 2: Enclaver he olds court when he's here, and uh in

1241
01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:38,240
Speaker 2: a in a suite, you know, with speakers. Basically I

1242
01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:41,720
Speaker 2: thought it was in a fucking Metallica gig, you know, cranked,

1243
01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:45,200
Speaker 2: you know, and he people music and he's blasting, you know,

1244
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:48,400
Speaker 2: and he's played me Whitney. He's Whitney was working progress.

1245
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:51,560
Speaker 2: The first record he played, You Give Good Love, played

1246
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:54,640
Speaker 2: a bit of how well I Know and Saving All

1247
01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:57,680
Speaker 2: My Love for you, and you know when just back

1248
01:01:57,720 --> 01:01:59,440
Speaker 2: to back to back, and you couldn't really talk to

1249
01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:01,240
Speaker 2: him after I said, oh, that's Whitney. Hears that. He

1250
01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:04,360
Speaker 2: goes really, how'd you know? I said, I said, I

1251
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:07,040
Speaker 2: know these things, you know. And recently they had had

1252
01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:10,040
Speaker 2: a showcase here in LA for writers and producers, which

1253
01:02:10,120 --> 01:02:11,920
Speaker 2: was kind of legendary story at the time, where he

1254
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:14,800
Speaker 2: was pitching for songs and stuff, and Quincy couldn't make it.

1255
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:18,840
Speaker 2: But I was well aware, and you know, Whitney was fine,

1256
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:21,280
Speaker 2: you know, and I was smart enough to know that.

1257
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:23,960
Speaker 3: So do those things generally work?

1258
01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:29,400
Speaker 1: Like when you gather uh, you know, a bunch of

1259
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:33,080
Speaker 1: of of not even named brand but writers and producers

1260
01:02:33,880 --> 01:02:37,120
Speaker 1: in a room and someone tries to sell you on

1261
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:39,840
Speaker 1: their artists, like we're going to really make it work.

1262
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:43,120
Speaker 2: Sometimes that generally work. Sometimes when its Clive Davis or

1263
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:46,280
Speaker 2: Quincy Jones. Yeah, you know, so when it's just you know,

1264
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:51,880
Speaker 2: some pisher an our guy, but not so much. But yeah,

1265
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:54,040
Speaker 2: so you know, he played me, played me, that played

1266
01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:56,520
Speaker 2: me a kashif some of the Kachiff record that was

1267
01:02:56,600 --> 01:03:01,640
Speaker 2: in motion Kenny g record, which was basically record with

1268
01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:02,680
Speaker 2: Kenny playing solos.

1269
01:03:03,360 --> 01:03:07,280
Speaker 1: Was he generally you know, okay, not not to throw

1270
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:09,720
Speaker 1: the bus, but like kind of like the way that

1271
01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:13,200
Speaker 1: Jimmy Ivying operated during the time when we were under

1272
01:03:13,360 --> 01:03:16,560
Speaker 1: the tutelage of Jimmy Ivy. Like, you know, it's like

1273
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:18,720
Speaker 1: if you're in a world where you're dealing with sting

1274
01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:23,400
Speaker 1: and no doubt in eminem then it's like you might

1275
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:26,680
Speaker 1: just get like a once a year below there and whatever.

1276
01:03:26,800 --> 01:03:29,880
Speaker 1: But in general, was Clive the type of artist that

1277
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:31,800
Speaker 1: paid attention.

1278
01:03:31,560 --> 01:03:35,240
Speaker 3: To a group like Real, a group like Real to Real,

1279
01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:38,880
Speaker 3: just like he would you know about Real to Real, Dude,

1280
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:40,400
Speaker 3: I'm a leon. We're a leon.

1281
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:45,400
Speaker 2: And I took him a copy of the Real Real cassette.

1282
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 2: He'd forgotten all about it, Dude.

1283
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:50,400
Speaker 3: They just released that that album. They just digitized it

1284
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:52,920
Speaker 3: like maybe a month ago. Wow, it's finally on streaming.

1285
01:03:53,240 --> 01:03:55,160
Speaker 3: But I'm saying, would he pay attention to them as

1286
01:03:55,240 --> 01:03:57,440
Speaker 3: much as he would air supply or no?

1287
01:03:57,840 --> 01:04:03,680
Speaker 2: No, I don't know their situation. I mean basically the

1288
01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:05,560
Speaker 2: role of thumb that we had amongst the A and

1289
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:07,560
Speaker 2: our staff, whether it was true or not, but it was.

1290
01:04:07,640 --> 01:04:10,600
Speaker 2: We found it to be the practical reality, which was

1291
01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:12,880
Speaker 2: if he had stuff that he was excited about at

1292
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:15,880
Speaker 2: one point and then somehow had lost its luster, it

1293
01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:18,600
Speaker 2: didn't perform in the marketplace or whatever, and they went

1294
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:20,200
Speaker 2: back in to do their fill in the blank second

1295
01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:22,120
Speaker 2: or third record, and the new songs that came in

1296
01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:24,240
Speaker 2: weren't his cool and blah blah blah, but they didn't

1297
01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:27,040
Speaker 2: want to pay out to throw the bone to the

1298
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:29,480
Speaker 2: ANR guys, here fix this, you know. And Real the

1299
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:31,960
Speaker 2: Real was one of those situations for me.

1300
01:04:32,360 --> 01:04:36,440
Speaker 3: Okay, now know what happened to like average White Band and.

1301
01:04:38,040 --> 01:04:40,200
Speaker 2: Real the Real and Patrese.

1302
01:04:40,760 --> 01:04:44,520
Speaker 1: Yeah that's right, but yeah it feels so real, like well,

1303
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:47,400
Speaker 1: it's hard to tell, like when if you're a kid

1304
01:04:47,480 --> 01:04:51,760
Speaker 1: and you hear a song long enough as yeah, yeah,

1305
01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:54,840
Speaker 1: but okay, So even Jeffrey Osborne explained to his situation

1306
01:04:55,120 --> 01:04:57,520
Speaker 1: with with the Aerosmith and the same with Ray Parker Jr.

1307
01:04:58,120 --> 01:05:01,760
Speaker 3: So yeah, like who would you at at Arista? Who

1308
01:05:02,040 --> 01:05:03,880
Speaker 3: what was your duties there as far as like.

1309
01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:07,000
Speaker 2: I was vice president of an R for aren't the

1310
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:08,479
Speaker 2: R and b R and B area?

1311
01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:10,040
Speaker 3: What X came onto your tutelage?

1312
01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:17,320
Speaker 2: Obviously they were under clives too, right, you know? But uh, Aretha,

1313
01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:21,760
Speaker 2: it was during the Freeway love period, just heavily during

1314
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:24,080
Speaker 2: the Narda period. I have some great fun.

1315
01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:25,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, please give me.

1316
01:05:26,280 --> 01:05:34,280
Speaker 1: I'm also curious about just how jazz fusion guys, ironically

1317
01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:39,440
Speaker 1: weird enough start establishing the pop landscape of the eighties,

1318
01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:41,240
Speaker 1: and Narda is one of those people.

1319
01:05:41,360 --> 01:05:42,480
Speaker 2: With him is I should have loved you?

1320
01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:42,800
Speaker 3: You know?

1321
01:05:43,160 --> 01:05:46,400
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, very well because brothers Johnson toured. The

1322
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:49,680
Speaker 2: tour was Noardi, Michael Walden, Rufus and Shaka heat Wave

1323
01:05:49,880 --> 01:05:54,240
Speaker 2: and brothers Johnson and Bill Yeah one, Bill Arenas and

1324
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:58,360
Speaker 2: uh and Narda had like fifteen minutes up front. You know, basically,

1325
01:05:58,480 --> 01:05:59,200
Speaker 2: I should have loved you.

1326
01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:01,160
Speaker 3: And then you know some I don't want anybody else

1327
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:01,720
Speaker 3: to dance with you.

1328
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:05,760
Speaker 2: Now, I think that was what's his name Jackson was?

1329
01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:07,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was seventeen.

1330
01:06:08,240 --> 01:06:10,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, So as an an R and you know who

1331
01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:16,400
Speaker 1: your boss is, how heavy is the pressure to readjust

1332
01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:23,840
Speaker 1: your ears and your preferences to sort of blend in

1333
01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:27,360
Speaker 1: with his for survival's sake, as opposed to.

1334
01:06:29,880 --> 01:06:32,480
Speaker 3: I think it should go in this direction.

1335
01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:38,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a frustrating experience, but I learned a

1336
01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:40,960
Speaker 2: great deal. And I hold dear to my to my

1337
01:06:41,040 --> 01:06:43,600
Speaker 2: heart to twenty months that I worked for Clive because

1338
01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:45,720
Speaker 2: he puts you up on game, you know, because when

1339
01:06:45,720 --> 01:06:47,280
Speaker 2: I came out of Quincy, it was kind of like

1340
01:06:47,360 --> 01:06:50,040
Speaker 2: I'd been in a glorified mom and Pop or I've

1341
01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:52,320
Speaker 2: been at Howard and going to Clive was like going

1342
01:06:52,360 --> 01:06:52,880
Speaker 2: to Harvard.

1343
01:06:54,440 --> 01:06:58,160
Speaker 3: What's the main lessons that Quincy taught you that and

1344
01:06:58,440 --> 01:06:59,960
Speaker 3: what's the main lessons that Clive taught you.

1345
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:04,080
Speaker 2: Quincy, I'd say song, song is king and melody is queen,

1346
01:07:05,040 --> 01:07:08,520
Speaker 2: truth and honesty at all times, and you know, vatively

1347
01:07:08,760 --> 01:07:13,600
Speaker 2: business all the above. Okay, Yeah, My take on q

1348
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:15,680
Speaker 2: in those days was if there were two doors in

1349
01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:18,160
Speaker 2: a room, one was marked artist, one was marked business,

1350
01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:20,960
Speaker 2: ninety seven percent of the times he would go in

1351
01:07:21,040 --> 01:07:22,760
Speaker 2: and out of the artist or but you know the

1352
01:07:22,840 --> 01:07:26,000
Speaker 2: business store was was he was well oiled. He was

1353
01:07:26,040 --> 01:07:28,440
Speaker 2: in other you know, he was highly evolved as a businessman.

1354
01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:31,360
Speaker 2: Get it. He was really driven by the business and

1355
01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:33,800
Speaker 2: his business drove his art in a lot of levels.

1356
01:07:35,880 --> 01:07:38,680
Speaker 8: So Clyde was the was it Everse was he was

1357
01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:39,680
Speaker 8: more business than.

1358
01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:42,720
Speaker 2: Clyde was song. But he was definitely business and it

1359
01:07:42,920 --> 01:07:49,480
Speaker 2: was the feel for the marketplace. This sounds like a

1360
01:07:49,560 --> 01:07:52,520
Speaker 2: pejorative and it's not intended to be per se, but

1361
01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:56,120
Speaker 2: we used to hear from time to time just because

1362
01:07:56,160 --> 01:07:58,600
Speaker 2: their artist doesn't mean they know what they're doing. It's

1363
01:07:58,640 --> 01:08:01,240
Speaker 2: our responsibility as a our people and creative people at

1364
01:08:01,240 --> 01:08:04,280
Speaker 2: the record company, because we're spending the money to find hits,

1365
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:05,520
Speaker 2: to find the hits for.

1366
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:08,240
Speaker 1: So, is there an example of a song in which

1367
01:08:09,200 --> 01:08:12,280
Speaker 1: the artist might be perceived as kicking and screaming like

1368
01:08:12,480 --> 01:08:14,880
Speaker 1: there is air supply, like we had.

1369
01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:18,360
Speaker 2: This, even I wasn't really with their supply. Air supply

1370
01:08:18,479 --> 01:08:23,040
Speaker 2: wasn't there when I was there and Manilow had, Manelo

1371
01:08:23,160 --> 01:08:25,360
Speaker 2: had more or less had left the label at that point.

1372
01:08:27,000 --> 01:08:29,160
Speaker 2: I was there during the you know it was Billy Ocean,

1373
01:08:29,280 --> 01:08:31,040
Speaker 2: you know, with the give stuff. Hoo, Denei, with the

1374
01:08:31,120 --> 01:08:36,200
Speaker 2: give stuff. That's what friends are for Dionne. Because that

1375
01:08:36,400 --> 01:08:37,840
Speaker 2: that was a frustrating record for me.

1376
01:08:41,120 --> 01:08:43,479
Speaker 3: Why didn't last night only getting the worse?

1377
01:08:44,240 --> 01:08:46,200
Speaker 2: That was just the record single?

1378
01:08:46,280 --> 01:08:49,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, what's the story of that? From your nuts?

1379
01:08:50,320 --> 01:08:53,360
Speaker 2: My frustration was Arthur Baker and Little Stephen had come

1380
01:08:53,439 --> 01:08:56,479
Speaker 2: to me with the with the Sun City record. We

1381
01:08:56,479 --> 01:08:58,519
Speaker 2: didn't want to do that, and and and I played

1382
01:08:58,520 --> 01:09:00,519
Speaker 2: it for Climb and played it for Roy, rented up

1383
01:09:00,520 --> 01:09:03,240
Speaker 2: the Flagpoole for all the obvious reasons. I really wanted it,

1384
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:06,160
Speaker 2: and I like Arthur and I like Steven, and I

1385
01:09:06,240 --> 01:09:09,200
Speaker 2: brought it in and it kind of dangled and dawdled

1386
01:09:09,439 --> 01:09:11,760
Speaker 2: for a bit and then we're not gonna do it.

1387
01:09:11,840 --> 01:09:13,680
Speaker 2: We're gonna do the dion has just come to me

1388
01:09:13,800 --> 01:09:16,280
Speaker 2: with this idea from Burt Backrack blah blah blah. It

1389
01:09:16,400 --> 01:09:18,599
Speaker 2: was the front end of the whole AIDS epidemic thing,

1390
01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:21,000
Speaker 2: you know, And I admit that I was a bit

1391
01:09:21,040 --> 01:09:23,080
Speaker 2: of a knucklehead. I was like, fuck e fuck that. Yea,

1392
01:09:23,520 --> 01:09:26,920
Speaker 2: this is important to Sun Cities. However, black people, black people,

1393
01:09:26,960 --> 01:09:30,000
Speaker 2: black people, and you know, they weren't having it, and

1394
01:09:30,080 --> 01:09:33,800
Speaker 2: then so he wasn't having it. So ultimately Arthur and

1395
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:37,559
Speaker 2: Stephen took it to Manhattan to Bruce Lunvall. I guess yeah, uh,

1396
01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:40,960
Speaker 2: and then Clive, you know, they did. That's what friends

1397
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:43,120
Speaker 2: are for. And this is pre digital, so any kind

1398
01:09:43,160 --> 01:09:45,719
Speaker 2: of cuts and edits, we're actual tape cuts and stuff.

1399
01:09:46,160 --> 01:09:47,400
Speaker 2: And there's a guy who was on the A and

1400
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:50,320
Speaker 2: R staff with me then, uh, still a friend of

1401
01:09:50,320 --> 01:09:52,280
Speaker 2: a guy called John Mervos. Mervos and I have had

1402
01:09:52,320 --> 01:09:54,160
Speaker 2: a running bit ever since then because there was an

1403
01:09:54,200 --> 01:09:56,320
Speaker 2: A and R meeting at one point where Clive had

1404
01:09:56,439 --> 01:09:59,720
Speaker 2: us in there listening to a bazillion different mixes and

1405
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:04,600
Speaker 2: different cuts. You know, Stevie first, Gladys first, you know,

1406
01:10:05,160 --> 01:10:08,960
Speaker 2: you keep smiling, He's smiling, so.

1407
01:10:09,080 --> 01:10:12,080
Speaker 1: You're trying to tell me that they wanted the piecemeal together,

1408
01:10:12,240 --> 01:10:14,880
Speaker 1: like yeah, all right, so we'll bring glass in the end.

1409
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:17,800
Speaker 2: And they did it all they did. Everybody had a

1410
01:10:17,880 --> 01:10:19,639
Speaker 2: solo verse. Everybody had an ad lib.

1411
01:10:19,720 --> 01:10:22,880
Speaker 3: So everyone saying the verse, and then you guys had

1412
01:10:22,880 --> 01:10:23,879
Speaker 3: to figure out the nomination.

1413
01:10:24,280 --> 01:10:27,240
Speaker 4: He would offer his you know that, and how do

1414
01:10:27,320 --> 01:10:30,160
Speaker 4: you figure out the sequence first?

1415
01:10:31,840 --> 01:10:32,000
Speaker 2: There?

1416
01:10:34,479 --> 01:10:35,599
Speaker 3: I was always felt that song.

1417
01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:38,000
Speaker 8: I mean I was five six whenever it came out,

1418
01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:39,920
Speaker 8: but I always thought it felt like they were trying

1419
01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:41,240
Speaker 8: to make a wee all the world, like they were

1420
01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:44,559
Speaker 8: going for that moment, like another anthem kind of that's

1421
01:10:44,600 --> 01:10:46,240
Speaker 8: what yeah, you know what I mean.

1422
01:10:47,360 --> 01:10:51,479
Speaker 1: But I always wondered why Gladys Knight never got a verse.

1423
01:10:52,080 --> 01:10:56,960
Speaker 1: She just comes in on the ad lib at the end, smile, smiling.

1424
01:10:57,080 --> 01:10:58,519
Speaker 1: That's the only time she appears on.

1425
01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:01,720
Speaker 3: It, right, So goo ahead. So were you there for

1426
01:11:01,840 --> 01:11:03,880
Speaker 3: the recording of it or just like not.

1427
01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:05,400
Speaker 2: In the studio, but you know, in the in the

1428
01:11:05,479 --> 01:11:07,720
Speaker 2: office because you know that was a client project, so

1429
01:11:07,840 --> 01:11:09,720
Speaker 2: you know, you'd bring me and our guys in, you know,

1430
01:11:09,800 --> 01:11:11,560
Speaker 2: when when there was a decision to be made or

1431
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:13,280
Speaker 2: listen to this what do you think kind of stuff?

1432
01:11:13,320 --> 01:11:13,479
Speaker 8: You know?

1433
01:11:14,200 --> 01:11:17,320
Speaker 3: And uh, and how long did it take to slice

1434
01:11:17,320 --> 01:11:18,400
Speaker 3: together and all of those things.

1435
01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:20,960
Speaker 2: I don't know, I remember. I just remember the meeting

1436
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:24,080
Speaker 2: being interminable, you know, and a certain pint like.

1437
01:11:26,880 --> 01:11:29,360
Speaker 1: We got to get Steve Little Stephen on the show

1438
01:11:29,439 --> 01:11:33,800
Speaker 1: because I just finished his reading his autobiography and him

1439
01:11:33,880 --> 01:11:38,120
Speaker 1: talking about leaving leaving right on the payoff of boring

1440
01:11:38,160 --> 01:11:42,560
Speaker 1: in the USA to do uh, artist against apartheid.

1441
01:11:42,080 --> 01:11:45,640
Speaker 2: And he's a good man. I almost almost hired him

1442
01:11:45,640 --> 01:11:48,080
Speaker 2: at one point at Mercury really because you know, he's

1443
01:11:48,120 --> 01:11:49,320
Speaker 2: part of the bon Jovie mob.

1444
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:50,920
Speaker 3: And uh, he's a record guy.

1445
01:11:51,040 --> 01:11:52,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I used to see him a lot around

1446
01:11:52,560 --> 01:11:55,080
Speaker 2: John and Richie and those guys. Okay, you talked to

1447
01:11:55,160 --> 01:11:57,400
Speaker 2: me when he had it was just formed of the

1448
01:11:57,439 --> 01:12:00,639
Speaker 2: Disciples of Soul, his band, and uh. I remember being

1449
01:12:00,680 --> 01:12:03,360
Speaker 2: in England with bon Jovi and Stephen was there and

1450
01:12:03,800 --> 01:12:07,080
Speaker 2: kicking it with the said our job. You know.

1451
01:12:07,240 --> 01:12:10,400
Speaker 3: So how long was your your run at Arista?

1452
01:12:10,760 --> 01:12:11,360
Speaker 2: Twenty months?

1453
01:12:11,840 --> 01:12:14,600
Speaker 3: Okay from January it was your last few months.

1454
01:12:14,439 --> 01:12:20,320
Speaker 2: Like weird. It got weird there from a bit because

1455
01:12:20,360 --> 01:12:23,320
Speaker 2: the project that I ended up working on that took

1456
01:12:23,760 --> 01:12:26,720
Speaker 2: It became pretty clear to me early on in the

1457
01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:31,200
Speaker 2: process that I always said that you know, it's Clive's

1458
01:12:31,240 --> 01:12:32,960
Speaker 2: candy store, and if he doesn't want a certain kind

1459
01:12:32,960 --> 01:12:37,160
Speaker 2: of chocolate in the candy store, you're fucked. And there

1460
01:12:37,200 --> 01:12:38,920
Speaker 2: were things that I wanted to do that you know,

1461
01:12:39,000 --> 01:12:40,439
Speaker 2: kept getting shot down because.

1462
01:12:40,240 --> 01:12:41,439
Speaker 3: This is a canine story.

1463
01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:46,160
Speaker 2: I had LeVert early Wait what Yeah, I had Lavert

1464
01:12:47,120 --> 01:12:50,080
Speaker 2: because because Eddie and uh, Eddie and Harry Coombs called

1465
01:12:50,120 --> 01:12:51,680
Speaker 2: me one day and said, hey, man, what you doing?

1466
01:12:52,920 --> 01:12:54,400
Speaker 2: He said, me and Eddie are gonna come out here.

1467
01:12:54,439 --> 01:12:56,720
Speaker 2: You want your headies? Kid? He played me, played me.

1468
01:12:56,760 --> 01:12:59,080
Speaker 2: They had an independent record of the song I'm Still Yes,

1469
01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:01,560
Speaker 2: and then heard it and smash, you know, and the

1470
01:13:01,680 --> 01:13:04,120
Speaker 2: kid sounds like his dad was all good and uh

1471
01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:06,479
Speaker 2: and played it for the boss and he was like,

1472
01:13:08,080 --> 01:13:09,520
Speaker 2: you know, so pass.

1473
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:13,920
Speaker 1: Okay without really in the most respectful way, or if

1474
01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:19,719
Speaker 1: you just want to be honest, does sometimes this black

1475
01:13:19,800 --> 01:13:21,160
Speaker 1: music have to be explained to him?

1476
01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:23,280
Speaker 3: Like did he know the magic that he had in

1477
01:13:23,439 --> 01:13:26,400
Speaker 3: Hudini or is this like oh these rap guys went

1478
01:13:26,479 --> 01:13:26,880
Speaker 3: gold too.

1479
01:13:27,680 --> 01:13:29,479
Speaker 2: That was really Clive Calder and Barry Wise and a

1480
01:13:29,680 --> 01:13:31,880
Speaker 2: Carle and Carly you should have on the show sometimes.

1481
01:13:33,080 --> 01:13:38,160
Speaker 2: Tokyoski Yo. Yeah, he had a pretty good feeling he

1482
01:13:38,160 --> 01:13:40,519
Speaker 2: had a feel for songs, songs and trends, you know.

1483
01:13:41,920 --> 01:13:46,439
Speaker 1: So yeah, all right, okay, So I'm revisiting and there's

1484
01:13:46,479 --> 01:13:48,479
Speaker 1: a reason why I have all the Soul Trained stuff.

1485
01:13:49,080 --> 01:13:51,519
Speaker 1: So now I'm kind of in the Sole Train Awards thing,

1486
01:13:51,560 --> 01:13:55,040
Speaker 1: and I'm watching season two of the Soul Train Awards

1487
01:13:55,080 --> 01:13:57,320
Speaker 1: and you can clearly hear the booze and the jeers

1488
01:13:57,400 --> 01:13:58,720
Speaker 1: of the second album.

1489
01:13:59,400 --> 01:13:59,920
Speaker 3: In the build.

1490
01:14:00,720 --> 01:14:04,240
Speaker 1: I was there, Okay, so in the building even though,

1491
01:14:04,760 --> 01:14:08,800
Speaker 1: and it's so weird because everyone's relationship with I want

1492
01:14:08,840 --> 01:14:13,720
Speaker 1: to dance with somebody now, like I put I want

1493
01:14:13,720 --> 01:14:16,360
Speaker 1: to dance with somebody in what I call the September file,

1494
01:14:18,040 --> 01:14:21,280
Speaker 1: I don't I don't believe that Earth when Fire really

1495
01:14:21,400 --> 01:14:24,040
Speaker 1: thought like September was going to be their signature song,

1496
01:14:24,760 --> 01:14:26,640
Speaker 1: just like I don't think run DMC thought that it's

1497
01:14:26,760 --> 01:14:28,760
Speaker 1: tricky it's going to be their signature song.

1498
01:14:29,560 --> 01:14:30,200
Speaker 3: Now it's like.

1499
01:14:31,800 --> 01:14:33,720
Speaker 1: When I play I want to Dance with Somebody who

1500
01:14:33,760 --> 01:14:37,280
Speaker 1: loves me, it's almost like I see the revisionist reaction.

1501
01:14:37,080 --> 01:14:40,439
Speaker 3: Of everyone, like we've always loved the song, but I.

1502
01:14:40,520 --> 01:14:42,599
Speaker 4: Did as a little girl when it came out as

1503
01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:43,120
Speaker 4: a That's.

1504
01:14:43,080 --> 01:14:45,120
Speaker 1: Because when you were young and no, no, no, and

1505
01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:50,360
Speaker 1: it's technically nothing, it's nothing wrong with it, but there's

1506
01:14:50,400 --> 01:14:51,160
Speaker 1: a reason.

1507
01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:52,920
Speaker 2: For me.

1508
01:14:53,360 --> 01:14:53,639
Speaker 3: Okay.

1509
01:14:53,800 --> 01:14:58,120
Speaker 1: So George Clinton once told this joke, said that slide

1510
01:14:58,120 --> 01:15:02,519
Speaker 1: Stone said this about Prince. I was like, man, he

1511
01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:04,519
Speaker 1: walked around here like they want to some Sign of

1512
01:15:04,520 --> 01:15:06,200
Speaker 1: the Time show, and George is like, what'd you think?

1513
01:15:06,280 --> 01:15:07,920
Speaker 1: Like that was the first time that Sly really got

1514
01:15:07,960 --> 01:15:12,040
Speaker 1: to see Princess, and Sli allegedly said, man, man, he

1515
01:15:12,520 --> 01:15:17,599
Speaker 1: up there tasting like broccoli when he should be tasting

1516
01:15:17,680 --> 01:15:23,439
Speaker 1: like mustard greens. I got that, and so I think

1517
01:15:23,520 --> 01:15:26,840
Speaker 1: in my mind the thing was I tried to figure

1518
01:15:26,840 --> 01:15:30,800
Speaker 1: out Okay, so the version that I would have wanted

1519
01:15:30,880 --> 01:15:32,280
Speaker 1: Whitney Houston to come out with.

1520
01:15:32,880 --> 01:15:35,360
Speaker 3: Then it would just probably been like a she record.

1521
01:15:36,040 --> 01:15:38,679
Speaker 1: More thinking about you is more you give good loves,

1522
01:15:39,080 --> 01:15:40,519
Speaker 1: which we're still our gems.

1523
01:15:42,280 --> 01:15:43,680
Speaker 3: But I don't know.

1524
01:15:44,760 --> 01:15:47,200
Speaker 1: Oftentimes I don't want to be the fan that punishes

1525
01:15:47,280 --> 01:15:54,479
Speaker 1: someone for having to adjust to the climate. And it's

1526
01:15:54,520 --> 01:15:56,760
Speaker 1: almost like I don't know what the answer is. But

1527
01:15:56,920 --> 01:16:00,200
Speaker 1: I do remember when I got that record, you know,

1528
01:16:00,439 --> 01:16:03,679
Speaker 1: loves the Contact Sport, and I was just like, wow,

1529
01:16:03,760 --> 01:16:06,360
Speaker 1: this is really poppy, and I wasn't thing like an

1530
01:16:06,400 --> 01:16:07,880
Speaker 1: an r at the age of fifteen, but.

1531
01:16:07,920 --> 01:16:13,479
Speaker 2: Even I knew, like from inception, the the motive always was.

1532
01:16:14,280 --> 01:16:17,240
Speaker 2: I remember just being there, She's a pop star, Whitney's

1533
01:16:17,240 --> 01:16:19,200
Speaker 2: gonna be the biggest pop star in the world, and

1534
01:16:19,320 --> 01:16:21,160
Speaker 2: that was that was that was the goal. And the

1535
01:16:21,280 --> 01:16:24,720
Speaker 2: Kashif tracks were there to basically introduce her to put

1536
01:16:24,840 --> 01:16:27,200
Speaker 2: toe in the water at black radio, get black folks,

1537
01:16:27,240 --> 01:16:29,320
Speaker 2: you know, to know what it is. But then we're

1538
01:16:29,360 --> 01:16:30,280
Speaker 2: crossing it from there.

1539
01:16:30,160 --> 01:16:32,479
Speaker 3: You know, did anyone ever asked? But at what cost?

1540
01:16:33,840 --> 01:16:36,080
Speaker 1: That's not Whitney Houston, because I'm almost certain that she

1541
01:16:37,200 --> 01:16:40,519
Speaker 1: too was like, hello, I don't know, I don't know, Okay,

1542
01:16:41,040 --> 01:16:42,720
Speaker 1: so do you know what the general feeling in the

1543
01:16:42,760 --> 01:16:45,439
Speaker 1: building was after the Sole Train Award situation, because I'm

1544
01:16:45,479 --> 01:16:47,800
Speaker 1: really shocked they didn't edit.

1545
01:16:48,840 --> 01:16:51,559
Speaker 3: So they later edited those booze out, but I.

1546
01:16:51,640 --> 01:16:54,800
Speaker 4: Recorded it like the full sentence of mere fort a

1547
01:16:54,840 --> 01:16:55,240
Speaker 4: young folk.

1548
01:16:55,360 --> 01:16:55,599
Speaker 3: Okay.

1549
01:16:55,800 --> 01:16:59,000
Speaker 1: So at the Soul Train Awards, and it really wasn't

1550
01:16:59,000 --> 01:17:01,439
Speaker 1: Whitney's fault, but she was just like, too you biquit,

1551
01:17:01,520 --> 01:17:04,839
Speaker 1: it's winning too much. And so when they were nominated

1552
01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:07,519
Speaker 1: and the nominas of her so emotional winning us and

1553
01:17:07,600 --> 01:17:07,880
Speaker 1: you just.

1554
01:17:07,880 --> 01:17:08,479
Speaker 3: Clearly hear.

1555
01:17:11,120 --> 01:17:15,680
Speaker 1: It's just crazy crazy booze and me and my mom

1556
01:17:15,720 --> 01:17:17,640
Speaker 1: looking at each other watching the Soul Train Awards like yo,

1557
01:17:17,920 --> 01:17:20,800
Speaker 1: like wow, and so who do.

1558
01:17:20,880 --> 01:17:22,560
Speaker 4: We want to win? I'm like, now a retrospect to

1559
01:17:22,640 --> 01:17:24,000
Speaker 4: I'm like, who do we think? God dooped?

1560
01:17:24,640 --> 01:17:26,840
Speaker 3: I was frustrated at her career.

1561
01:17:27,000 --> 01:17:31,280
Speaker 1: I'm proud of this success, but there was just too

1562
01:17:31,400 --> 01:17:33,840
Speaker 1: much scene on it for me, too much Yamaha Dix

1563
01:17:33,880 --> 01:17:38,759
Speaker 1: seven too much, you know, the Michael Master intros and everything.

1564
01:17:39,640 --> 01:17:44,479
Speaker 1: But it's weird because now it's like, oh, I love

1565
01:17:44,560 --> 01:17:48,040
Speaker 1: this all along, which is you know, but what were

1566
01:17:48,080 --> 01:17:50,560
Speaker 1: your general feelings like what was the feelings of the

1567
01:17:50,600 --> 01:17:52,320
Speaker 1: building after the Soul Train Awards?

1568
01:17:53,160 --> 01:17:55,280
Speaker 2: Just disappointment? You know what the fuck was that? You

1569
01:17:55,360 --> 01:17:58,080
Speaker 2: know kind of thing? You know, But was it an.

1570
01:17:58,000 --> 01:18:00,439
Speaker 3: Instant like we gotta fix this or was Claud aware

1571
01:18:00,560 --> 01:18:01,800
Speaker 3: like we might have to fix this.

1572
01:18:02,040 --> 01:18:04,360
Speaker 2: Let's just keep it moving. That was the vibe. I guys,

1573
01:18:04,479 --> 01:18:06,160
Speaker 2: keep it moving, you know, keep putting it on the

1574
01:18:06,280 --> 01:18:07,040
Speaker 2: radio and blow it up.

1575
01:18:07,080 --> 01:18:07,280
Speaker 4: You know.

1576
01:18:12,040 --> 01:18:14,799
Speaker 3: What happened after Arista what the PolyGram?

1577
01:18:15,120 --> 01:18:18,439
Speaker 2: There was a new music seminar was going on in

1578
01:18:18,560 --> 01:18:23,120
Speaker 2: New York. It was August July of eighty six, and

1579
01:18:24,080 --> 01:18:26,920
Speaker 2: I'd run into this guy called Bob Scoo Scorro ended

1580
01:18:27,000 --> 01:18:28,479
Speaker 2: up being in my head at A and R for

1581
01:18:28,640 --> 01:18:31,200
Speaker 2: Mercury the pop side, and Bob and I had known

1582
01:18:31,240 --> 01:18:32,519
Speaker 2: each other from out here because he used to be

1583
01:18:32,560 --> 01:18:36,880
Speaker 2: a song plugger for EMI Music and I saw him

1584
01:18:36,920 --> 01:18:38,760
Speaker 2: when he was like, dude, how I am? You know

1585
01:18:38,800 --> 01:18:40,639
Speaker 2: one of those things? What's happening? I said, dude, get

1586
01:18:40,680 --> 01:18:42,880
Speaker 2: me out of here? He said what he said, just

1587
01:18:43,040 --> 01:18:46,160
Speaker 2: get me out of here. I see. It wasn't working

1588
01:18:46,200 --> 01:18:49,439
Speaker 2: out for me. It was it was weird environment. I said,

1589
01:18:49,439 --> 01:18:50,840
Speaker 2: I don't want to be here anymore, and I had

1590
01:18:50,880 --> 01:18:53,720
Speaker 2: aspirations of doing something. You know, Arista was not a

1591
01:18:53,760 --> 01:18:55,720
Speaker 2: great place to be at that time. If you were

1592
01:18:55,720 --> 01:18:59,679
Speaker 2: a creative person who had illusions of your own personal grandeur.

1593
01:18:59,760 --> 01:19:02,840
Speaker 3: You know, who did you try to bring there that

1594
01:19:03,840 --> 01:19:04,639
Speaker 3: besides LeVert?

1595
01:19:04,880 --> 01:19:12,280
Speaker 2: Like LeVert who got away basically LeVert us mostly songs?

1596
01:19:12,320 --> 01:19:13,759
Speaker 2: Could you find songs and stuff?

1597
01:19:13,800 --> 01:19:14,120
Speaker 8: You know that?

1598
01:19:14,280 --> 01:19:17,200
Speaker 2: Uh? That you what songs did you ride for that?

1599
01:19:17,439 --> 01:19:21,200
Speaker 2: Caravana Love for Angie really yeah wow?

1600
01:19:21,479 --> 01:19:23,920
Speaker 3: Caravan Love Angel.

1601
01:19:25,760 --> 01:19:31,000
Speaker 2: Yeah wow? My my ex girlfriend from years her sister

1602
01:19:31,160 --> 01:19:34,720
Speaker 2: was married to Ernie, and uh, and that's yeah, I

1603
01:19:34,760 --> 01:19:37,240
Speaker 2: got to call it one one point. You know, Ernie

1604
01:19:37,280 --> 01:19:39,519
Speaker 2: and Chris have songs they want you to hear. So yeah,

1605
01:19:39,520 --> 01:19:41,880
Speaker 2: I'm looking for songs for Angie Bofield. Well we got

1606
01:19:41,920 --> 01:19:43,400
Speaker 2: a perfect song for They came up and played me

1607
01:19:43,640 --> 01:19:45,479
Speaker 2: Caravana Love, and uh.

1608
01:19:46,400 --> 01:19:47,000
Speaker 3: I didn't see it.

1609
01:19:47,160 --> 01:19:54,280
Speaker 2: No, so no, it's too preachy. So yeah, okay, Yeah, anyway.

1610
01:19:54,200 --> 01:19:56,960
Speaker 1: I assume that he's trying to hit Middle America. Yeah,

1611
01:19:57,160 --> 01:20:01,040
Speaker 1: yesh okay, and you're trying to hit all of America exactly.

1612
01:20:02,640 --> 01:20:07,719
Speaker 2: So that got frustrating. And the projects that I actually

1613
01:20:07,760 --> 01:20:10,840
Speaker 2: ended up working with Kenny g got dropped in my lap,

1614
01:20:10,960 --> 01:20:14,120
Speaker 2: you know, because I did the toes Thank you?

1615
01:20:14,600 --> 01:20:15,960
Speaker 3: Can you plan that moment?

1616
01:20:16,520 --> 01:20:16,560
Speaker 2: Like?

1617
01:20:17,200 --> 01:20:20,759
Speaker 3: Can you plan that level of lightning in a bottle?

1618
01:20:20,880 --> 01:20:24,040
Speaker 2: Here's the moment. I'd known Kenny as Kenny Gorlic when

1619
01:20:24,040 --> 01:20:26,200
Speaker 2: he was playing with Jeff Lauber's band. I was a

1620
01:20:26,280 --> 01:20:29,120
Speaker 2: Laber fan and uh, and so when I got in

1621
01:20:29,200 --> 01:20:31,519
Speaker 2: then and once again I spent some time with Kashif

1622
01:20:31,880 --> 01:20:34,439
Speaker 2: and out here in La Hi, How You Doing was

1623
01:20:34,560 --> 01:20:36,800
Speaker 2: actually a hit record on the radio, which was a

1624
01:20:36,880 --> 01:20:39,000
Speaker 2: Kenney record, but it was a kaif with Kenny solo

1625
01:20:39,080 --> 01:20:42,360
Speaker 2: in it, and uh So, one day I get a

1626
01:20:42,400 --> 01:20:46,479
Speaker 2: call Clive actually Roy Lott, who's the number two guy

1627
01:20:46,640 --> 01:20:49,200
Speaker 2: in Ariston, and Roy says, you know Kenny Kenny g

1628
01:20:49,320 --> 01:20:51,439
Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah blah. So yeah, cool, let me

1629
01:20:51,479 --> 01:20:53,120
Speaker 2: hear it. I said, I know who he is. Let

1630
01:20:53,160 --> 01:20:55,360
Speaker 2: me hear it. And then Kenny calls Kenny's manager, guy

1631
01:20:55,400 --> 01:20:58,800
Speaker 2: called Dennis Turner, who had managed George Benson. I knew.

1632
01:20:58,880 --> 01:21:02,280
Speaker 2: I knew him from the Gimme the Night days. So

1633
01:21:02,520 --> 01:21:04,760
Speaker 2: they came by and Kenny walks in and he says, dude,

1634
01:21:04,840 --> 01:21:06,320
Speaker 2: I don't want to be here anymore. I want to

1635
01:21:06,360 --> 01:21:08,080
Speaker 2: get off the label. I hated here. I fucking hate

1636
01:21:08,120 --> 01:21:09,800
Speaker 2: it here. I'm tired of being a sideman on my

1637
01:21:09,840 --> 01:21:12,680
Speaker 2: own records. And I looked at I said, dude, I

1638
01:21:12,720 --> 01:21:14,320
Speaker 2: know who you are. I said, I saw you play

1639
01:21:14,360 --> 01:21:16,120
Speaker 2: with Jeff many times. I said, I like your playing.

1640
01:21:16,479 --> 01:21:19,960
Speaker 2: He looked at me, like what what what? I said, Yeah, Dick,

1641
01:21:20,000 --> 01:21:22,519
Speaker 2: how you sounded good with with Larber's band. I said,

1642
01:21:22,520 --> 01:21:24,080
Speaker 2: I know what you're trying to do. I said, but

1643
01:21:24,200 --> 01:21:26,560
Speaker 2: the reality is is people are trying to put you

1644
01:21:26,680 --> 01:21:28,120
Speaker 2: in a in a box that you need to be

1645
01:21:28,160 --> 01:21:30,920
Speaker 2: Sonny Rollins and John Coltrane when the reality of it is,

1646
01:21:31,000 --> 01:21:33,240
Speaker 2: I know you your path in it is like David

1647
01:21:33,320 --> 01:21:38,000
Speaker 2: Sanborn and Grover you know, and Junior Walker. So that

1648
01:21:38,160 --> 01:21:40,120
Speaker 2: was like music to me. This it was at the time,

1649
01:21:40,280 --> 01:21:42,680
Speaker 2: was at the front end of the CD thing, but

1650
01:21:42,800 --> 01:21:44,080
Speaker 2: also it is at the front end of the whole

1651
01:21:44,360 --> 01:21:47,360
Speaker 2: smooth jazz the wave format, you know. And I said,

1652
01:21:47,439 --> 01:21:49,320
Speaker 2: I think you can live in that zone. And then

1653
01:21:49,360 --> 01:21:51,120
Speaker 2: he gave me a cassette of you know, the home

1654
01:21:51,200 --> 01:21:53,200
Speaker 2: stuff that he was working on, which was ultimately the

1655
01:21:53,280 --> 01:21:55,720
Speaker 2: bones of the meat and bones of what was the

1656
01:21:55,800 --> 01:21:58,200
Speaker 2: duo toun And and I told him to say, man, look,

1657
01:21:58,240 --> 01:22:00,120
Speaker 2: here's what we need to do. If you trust me,

1658
01:22:00,160 --> 01:22:02,040
Speaker 2: here's what we need to do to make this fly. Here.

1659
01:22:02,280 --> 01:22:04,200
Speaker 2: So we got to do two covers. We got to

1660
01:22:04,200 --> 01:22:06,519
Speaker 2: do two vocal songs. One of them's got to be

1661
01:22:06,560 --> 01:22:08,439
Speaker 2: a cover and that was what does it Take to

1662
01:22:08,439 --> 01:22:11,400
Speaker 2: Win Your Love? And then another and another vocal song,

1663
01:22:11,439 --> 01:22:15,240
Speaker 2: which was don't Don't make Me Wait for Love?

1664
01:22:15,479 --> 01:22:15,719
Speaker 3: Okay.

1665
01:22:16,479 --> 01:22:18,759
Speaker 2: We got a guy called Ellis Hall, who's a keyboard

1666
01:22:18,760 --> 01:22:20,320
Speaker 2: player up up in the Bay Area that did a

1667
01:22:20,360 --> 01:22:22,800
Speaker 2: lot of stuff for Narda got Ellis to sing it,

1668
01:22:23,320 --> 01:22:27,040
Speaker 2: and ultimately he ended up putting Bolton on it. I said,

1669
01:22:27,160 --> 01:22:29,200
Speaker 2: and if we do that, we have some of the radio.

1670
01:22:29,240 --> 01:22:31,439
Speaker 2: Can promotion can take the radio. We're off to the

1671
01:22:31,520 --> 01:22:33,200
Speaker 2: race and the rest will live on it. So and

1672
01:22:33,320 --> 01:22:35,759
Speaker 2: you'll you'll be the king of you know whatever, smooth jazz.

1673
01:22:36,200 --> 01:22:37,040
Speaker 2: And we did so.

1674
01:22:37,280 --> 01:22:40,200
Speaker 3: Nowhere and you can't end it. We did, I mean

1675
01:22:40,240 --> 01:22:40,479
Speaker 3: we did.

1676
01:22:40,880 --> 01:22:43,479
Speaker 1: You weren't done you surely you weren't thinking like, and

1677
01:22:43,680 --> 01:22:45,639
Speaker 1: this is going to sell you ten million copies.

1678
01:22:45,680 --> 01:22:47,200
Speaker 2: No, I didn't think that, because I didn't think the

1679
01:22:47,320 --> 01:22:49,320
Speaker 2: songbird would would end up emerging.

1680
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:51,680
Speaker 1: A songbird, even I was working at sam Goodies at

1681
01:22:51,720 --> 01:22:55,200
Speaker 1: the time. Even like the amount of people that's how

1682
01:22:55,240 --> 01:22:58,280
Speaker 1: I knew. I've realized that I knew some songs from

1683
01:22:58,600 --> 01:23:02,000
Speaker 1: a previous record, right, But the amount of people just

1684
01:23:02,080 --> 01:23:02,920
Speaker 1: kept in somber.

1685
01:23:03,400 --> 01:23:05,680
Speaker 3: That's I don't know what a dou withtones is? How

1686
01:23:05,760 --> 01:23:07,960
Speaker 3: did y'all? How did song I was?

1687
01:23:08,040 --> 01:23:10,680
Speaker 2: I was gone by then, But basically what happened. The

1688
01:23:10,720 --> 01:23:13,519
Speaker 2: story that I'm told is Donnie Einer, who is the

1689
01:23:13,560 --> 01:23:16,439
Speaker 2: head of promotion in Ariston in those days, best promotion

1690
01:23:16,920 --> 01:23:19,960
Speaker 2: man of his of his of his period of his era.

1691
01:23:20,800 --> 01:23:23,080
Speaker 2: Donnie had gotten a call from some guy up and like,

1692
01:23:23,520 --> 01:23:26,080
Speaker 2: I want to say, Uh, what's the part of Pennsylvania

1693
01:23:26,120 --> 01:23:30,200
Speaker 2: that Biden talked about aways from? Uh, Scranton some some

1694
01:23:30,320 --> 01:23:32,400
Speaker 2: p D and Scranton had been using it for some

1695
01:23:32,800 --> 01:23:35,120
Speaker 2: using it as a theme for some like daytime call

1696
01:23:35,240 --> 01:23:37,960
Speaker 2: in show or something, just the melody, and I guess

1697
01:23:38,000 --> 01:23:40,439
Speaker 2: people started calling station what is that? What's that melody?

1698
01:23:40,520 --> 01:23:42,360
Speaker 2: Play man? And so they put the record on late

1699
01:23:42,400 --> 01:23:44,760
Speaker 2: at night and then phone started lighting up and they

1700
01:23:44,840 --> 01:23:46,880
Speaker 2: called Donnie and said, I think you may have something here,

1701
01:23:47,160 --> 01:23:49,680
Speaker 2: and Donnie pushed Donnie and Cliveve pushed the button, put

1702
01:23:49,720 --> 01:23:50,880
Speaker 2: it out and off off it went.

1703
01:23:51,680 --> 01:23:55,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, So at PolyGram, how long does it take

1704
01:23:55,920 --> 01:23:59,679
Speaker 3: you to get to the top of the mountain?

1705
01:24:00,920 --> 01:24:03,680
Speaker 2: I had I was working at aristat and Ramon came

1706
01:24:03,720 --> 01:24:05,360
Speaker 2: by to see me one day, just you know, on

1707
01:24:05,439 --> 01:24:10,400
Speaker 2: some some whatever, and uh, Vanessa at that point, had

1708
01:24:10,479 --> 01:24:12,559
Speaker 2: you know done, just dur frysco at that shake and hey,

1709
01:24:12,600 --> 01:24:15,760
Speaker 2: good looking on on the PFONK record, on George Clinton record,

1710
01:24:16,080 --> 01:24:18,880
Speaker 2: and uh, and I knew that they'd been in and

1711
01:24:18,960 --> 01:24:22,840
Speaker 2: out of mini offices here shopping a deal, and ostensibly

1712
01:24:22,920 --> 01:24:25,200
Speaker 2: what was happening was that she was kind of being

1713
01:24:25,240 --> 01:24:28,120
Speaker 2: ogled at by you know, record company presidents and A

1714
01:24:28,200 --> 01:24:30,559
Speaker 2: and R people whatever, but nobody was really taking it seriously.

1715
01:24:31,000 --> 01:24:33,200
Speaker 2: And he said, you know, we haven't been able to

1716
01:24:33,200 --> 01:24:35,240
Speaker 2: get anything happen, and blah blah blah blah. And I

1717
01:24:35,280 --> 01:24:36,880
Speaker 2: told him, I said, look on the lowest and I'm

1718
01:24:36,920 --> 01:24:38,880
Speaker 2: leaving here in about six weeks. I got this software

1719
01:24:38,920 --> 01:24:41,439
Speaker 2: PolyGram to start a label for them, and I'm going

1720
01:24:41,520 --> 01:24:44,120
Speaker 2: back home to California. I said I would entertain the

1721
01:24:44,200 --> 01:24:47,200
Speaker 2: notion then, because my theory at the time was I

1722
01:24:47,240 --> 01:24:50,000
Speaker 2: could start a new label with Susie Jones, you know,

1723
01:24:50,080 --> 01:24:52,760
Speaker 2: black on Army female that nobody nobody's ever heard of,

1724
01:24:53,160 --> 01:24:55,120
Speaker 2: or I could do with Vanessa Williams. I named that

1725
01:24:55,200 --> 01:24:57,600
Speaker 2: everybody knew, and I said it was in coming on

1726
01:24:57,680 --> 01:24:59,000
Speaker 2: me as an A and R guy and a record

1727
01:24:59,040 --> 01:25:01,360
Speaker 2: maker to make the music, to find the right hole

1728
01:25:01,479 --> 01:25:03,760
Speaker 2: to put her in. And so he said, okay, cool.

1729
01:25:03,800 --> 01:25:05,880
Speaker 2: So I flew. I came home and she and I,

1730
01:25:06,240 --> 01:25:08,360
Speaker 2: she and I sat and had dinner one night, and uh,

1731
01:25:09,200 --> 01:25:10,360
Speaker 2: after the races, we went.

1732
01:25:10,320 --> 01:25:12,519
Speaker 1: You know, is the goal of an an R to

1733
01:25:12,640 --> 01:25:18,919
Speaker 1: find like three signature artists so that you can eventually

1734
01:25:19,240 --> 01:25:21,800
Speaker 1: like get considered for well.

1735
01:25:22,280 --> 01:25:28,240
Speaker 2: Interestingly enough, the uh, the presidency thing was not what

1736
01:25:28,400 --> 01:25:32,120
Speaker 2: I ever aspired to be, you know, president of the

1737
01:25:32,160 --> 01:25:34,800
Speaker 2: whole Mercury thing. I never aspired to be that guy.

1738
01:25:35,479 --> 01:25:38,320
Speaker 2: But there was a certain aspect of when it was

1739
01:25:38,400 --> 01:25:40,559
Speaker 2: offered to me. I thought about a lot of those

1740
01:25:40,600 --> 01:25:42,720
Speaker 2: old school dudes that I knew from, you know, from

1741
01:25:42,760 --> 01:25:45,439
Speaker 2: my dad's era. You know, old old old brothers who

1742
01:25:45,439 --> 01:25:48,560
Speaker 2: would promotion and whatever the Dave Clark's, Joe Medlin's in

1743
01:25:48,600 --> 01:25:51,200
Speaker 2: the world. People like people probably worked your old man's records.

1744
01:25:51,720 --> 01:25:55,720
Speaker 2: So yeah, so those guys were very qualified and extremely

1745
01:25:55,960 --> 01:25:58,160
Speaker 2: good at what they did, but they never were offered.

1746
01:25:58,160 --> 01:26:00,840
Speaker 2: The situation never got never got shot. I thought about it.

1747
01:26:00,840 --> 01:26:03,559
Speaker 2: I said, who am I to say no? So they

1748
01:26:03,600 --> 01:26:05,360
Speaker 2: made me an offer I couldn't refuse, and I didn't

1749
01:26:05,360 --> 01:26:08,200
Speaker 2: refuse it. But the truth of the matter is the path,

1750
01:26:08,280 --> 01:26:09,800
Speaker 2: if I had stayed on the path that I was

1751
01:26:09,840 --> 01:26:14,639
Speaker 2: on doing the wing thing, Vanessa, Blue, Tony's Blue, Robin

1752
01:26:14,680 --> 01:26:19,080
Speaker 2: Harris was was gonna do, was gonna blow. Unfortunately lost

1753
01:26:19,160 --> 01:26:21,360
Speaker 2: them in a period of time, and then that's when

1754
01:26:21,400 --> 01:26:23,639
Speaker 2: I found Brian along the same period of time, Brian McKnight.

1755
01:26:23,920 --> 01:26:26,240
Speaker 2: So if I had just done those records and just

1756
01:26:26,280 --> 01:26:28,800
Speaker 2: stayed in their careers, you know that was you know

1757
01:26:28,880 --> 01:26:32,640
Speaker 2: that one success breeds another album. I would have been

1758
01:26:32,800 --> 01:26:34,599
Speaker 2: four or five albums deep on each one of them.

1759
01:26:34,680 --> 01:26:37,520
Speaker 1: You know, you came through the Tonys because of Foster mceilroy.

1760
01:26:37,600 --> 01:26:41,840
Speaker 1: But I thought they were more Warner based and no, like,

1761
01:26:43,000 --> 01:26:43,760
Speaker 1: how did they come to you?

1762
01:26:43,880 --> 01:26:49,120
Speaker 2: I put them with Denny Tommy. Oh yeah, short. How

1763
01:26:49,160 --> 01:26:50,920
Speaker 2: they came to me was the Tony said made us

1764
01:26:51,160 --> 01:26:53,560
Speaker 2: made a single, the twelve inch on Macolo Records, the

1765
01:26:53,640 --> 01:26:55,200
Speaker 2: local indie record, indy label.

1766
01:26:57,680 --> 01:27:03,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, he tells you designs video games.

1767
01:27:04,640 --> 01:27:07,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, I forget to nip because I was thinking about it.

1768
01:27:07,640 --> 01:27:11,479
Speaker 2: I can't find it now. I shouldn't have sold my vinyl. Yes,

1769
01:27:12,680 --> 01:27:15,000
Speaker 2: So they had a twelve inch on mycola and my

1770
01:27:15,080 --> 01:27:16,880
Speaker 2: head of promotion at Wing at the time was a

1771
01:27:16,920 --> 01:27:19,479
Speaker 2: guy called Michael Johnson. And Michael came to me one

1772
01:27:19,560 --> 01:27:21,240
Speaker 2: day and said, man, you got to hear this record

1773
01:27:21,280 --> 01:27:23,639
Speaker 2: and I heard. I said, yeah, it's cool. Sorry, I said,

1774
01:27:23,760 --> 01:27:25,680
Speaker 2: He said, man, they're here in times. Let's you want

1775
01:27:25,720 --> 01:27:28,200
Speaker 2: to fuck with him? And said yeah. Their manager came

1776
01:27:28,240 --> 01:27:29,880
Speaker 2: by and I sat with him a little bit and

1777
01:27:30,120 --> 01:27:32,160
Speaker 2: and upon hearing it, I went, these guys sound good,

1778
01:27:32,439 --> 01:27:35,280
Speaker 2: but they need help. They need somebody to help fare

1779
01:27:35,880 --> 01:27:37,600
Speaker 2: sort it out a little bit. In those days, my

1780
01:27:37,720 --> 01:27:40,680
Speaker 2: theory was every producer worth any degree of salt had

1781
01:27:40,720 --> 01:27:42,880
Speaker 2: a cassette in his back pocket of an act that

1782
01:27:42,920 --> 01:27:44,439
Speaker 2: they wanted to work with. You know, oh, this is

1783
01:27:44,520 --> 01:27:47,240
Speaker 2: my cousin, this is my brother, you know what? And uh,

1784
01:27:47,680 --> 01:27:49,280
Speaker 2: I said, you know, these guys are cool, so let me.

1785
01:27:49,880 --> 01:27:53,320
Speaker 2: David Lombard, who manages Denny and Tommy, was a friend.

1786
01:27:53,400 --> 01:27:56,719
Speaker 2: And I went to see Club Nouveau because Club Nouveau

1787
01:27:56,840 --> 01:27:58,439
Speaker 2: was playing here in town. So when Danny and Tommy

1788
01:27:58,479 --> 01:28:00,280
Speaker 2: were still in the band before they left, it was

1789
01:28:00,400 --> 01:28:02,680
Speaker 2: actually the last gig they played with him, So was

1790
01:28:02,720 --> 01:28:04,559
Speaker 2: the show with David, and he introduced me with Danny

1791
01:28:04,600 --> 01:28:06,639
Speaker 2: and Tommy, and I told him, I said, man, I'd

1792
01:28:06,720 --> 01:28:08,120
Speaker 2: like to have you guys work on this band that

1793
01:28:08,160 --> 01:28:10,439
Speaker 2: I'm thinking about signing. Really who And I told me, oh,

1794
01:28:10,520 --> 01:28:12,960
Speaker 2: we know those guys. They knew them from Oakland because

1795
01:28:12,960 --> 01:28:15,080
Speaker 2: I guess they'd worked with Tommy in the studio up

1796
01:28:15,120 --> 01:28:15,559
Speaker 2: in Oakland.

1797
01:28:16,120 --> 01:28:18,960
Speaker 1: So at the time, did you realize that you were

1798
01:28:19,360 --> 01:28:24,040
Speaker 1: working with possibly the last well not the last R

1799
01:28:24,040 --> 01:28:26,840
Speaker 1: and B group, But I meant, if it starts with

1800
01:28:26,880 --> 01:28:29,320
Speaker 1: Sling the Family Stone in sixty eight and it kind of.

1801
01:28:31,080 --> 01:28:33,639
Speaker 3: The bracket ends with Tony Tony Tony in eighty eight.

1802
01:28:33,760 --> 01:28:36,280
Speaker 2: I was. I was very aware of it. Absolutely, So you.

1803
01:28:36,320 --> 01:28:39,360
Speaker 3: Knew that black music was in trouble even in eighty

1804
01:28:39,600 --> 01:28:43,920
Speaker 3: sixty seven. And what were some of that indicators for you?

1805
01:28:44,560 --> 01:28:49,439
Speaker 2: Black radio? You know, there was that that MTV video

1806
01:28:49,520 --> 01:28:53,000
Speaker 2: of video killed the Radio Star, and I said, black

1807
01:28:53,080 --> 01:28:56,360
Speaker 2: radio killed the Black radio star during the period of

1808
01:28:56,439 --> 01:28:57,680
Speaker 2: time you know about that?

1809
01:28:57,920 --> 01:29:00,479
Speaker 1: Is it just in terms of promoting you talk about

1810
01:29:00,479 --> 01:29:03,640
Speaker 1: Donnie Iron, which I didn't know it even started and.

1811
01:29:03,920 --> 01:29:05,920
Speaker 2: Start there, but that was when it was a big

1812
01:29:05,960 --> 01:29:07,519
Speaker 2: gig before he went to we went to Son.

1813
01:29:07,680 --> 01:29:10,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So when you talk about promotion, men, do

1814
01:29:10,520 --> 01:29:14,280
Speaker 1: you tell about the difference between as much as you're

1815
01:29:14,280 --> 01:29:18,000
Speaker 1: allowed to say, like how these songs get on radio

1816
01:29:18,080 --> 01:29:21,759
Speaker 1: or how they get promoted as opposed to that which.

1817
01:29:21,720 --> 01:29:25,000
Speaker 4: I you know, and explain what you mean about how

1818
01:29:25,040 --> 01:29:26,840
Speaker 4: it killed because we didn't really explain it.

1819
01:29:26,920 --> 01:29:27,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, that part.

1820
01:29:28,920 --> 01:29:33,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, both of the above So to give a perfect

1821
01:29:33,720 --> 01:29:36,519
Speaker 2: example as it worked with me, was when we released

1822
01:29:36,520 --> 01:29:38,840
Speaker 2: the first Brothers Johnson album in nineteen seventy six, look

1823
01:29:38,880 --> 01:29:41,320
Speaker 2: Out for Number One. The first city that it blew

1824
01:29:41,400 --> 01:29:45,080
Speaker 2: up in was d C. So we being George and Lewis,

1825
01:29:45,439 --> 01:29:48,560
Speaker 2: were going to d C to do some promotion and

1826
01:29:48,840 --> 01:29:51,320
Speaker 2: we're coming in from Dulles in the car and we're

1827
01:29:51,320 --> 01:29:55,200
Speaker 2: hearing and turn on h U R and ky asked

1828
01:29:55,520 --> 01:29:57,639
Speaker 2: right over the other stations in d C and they're

1829
01:29:57,760 --> 01:30:01,400
Speaker 2: blasting good to you. Get the phone, look out my face, thunders,

1830
01:30:01,439 --> 01:30:03,880
Speaker 2: thumbs and lightings like free and single and tomorrow playing

1831
01:30:04,040 --> 01:30:06,960
Speaker 2: five even the filler yep, five cuts deep, you know,

1832
01:30:07,080 --> 01:30:09,000
Speaker 2: playing the ship out of it. You know this is

1833
01:30:09,400 --> 01:30:11,400
Speaker 2: exactly playing a ship out of it, and say, oh

1834
01:30:11,439 --> 01:30:13,000
Speaker 2: my god, this is great, you know it was. It's

1835
01:30:13,000 --> 01:30:16,320
Speaker 2: all like that. So that night we were the local

1836
01:30:16,400 --> 01:30:18,320
Speaker 2: guy in the market took us to dinner with the

1837
01:30:18,840 --> 01:30:20,479
Speaker 2: program director music director of.

1838
01:30:22,240 --> 01:30:27,000
Speaker 4: W o L, the big radio one. Yeah, that was

1839
01:30:27,040 --> 01:30:31,920
Speaker 4: preen w L w M m J is Katy Katy's

1840
01:30:31,960 --> 01:30:32,320
Speaker 4: first station.

1841
01:30:32,840 --> 01:30:35,080
Speaker 2: So they took us to dinner with these guys. It

1842
01:30:35,200 --> 01:30:37,479
Speaker 2: was a program director at the time is a guy

1843
01:30:37,520 --> 01:30:39,599
Speaker 2: called Bobby Bennett, who was known as the Burner, sort

1844
01:30:39,600 --> 01:30:43,000
Speaker 2: of legendary radio guy, another guy called Chuck McCool, guy

1845
01:30:43,080 --> 01:30:45,240
Speaker 2: called Cortes Thompson who went on to become a head

1846
01:30:45,240 --> 01:30:48,439
Speaker 2: of promotion at at Warner Brothers. And another guy whose

1847
01:30:48,520 --> 01:30:50,599
Speaker 2: name escapes soon. So you know, we're at the dinner

1848
01:30:50,640 --> 01:30:53,000
Speaker 2: table and I'm green behind you as I'm geeked, Oh,

1849
01:30:53,120 --> 01:30:55,000
Speaker 2: this is worth the palm. This is great, this is great.

1850
01:30:55,240 --> 01:30:57,000
Speaker 2: You guys are playing it right the car well, we

1851
01:30:57,080 --> 01:30:59,320
Speaker 2: heard our record the whole way in. And one of

1852
01:30:59,360 --> 01:31:01,120
Speaker 2: them looks, come, young brother, let me talk to you

1853
01:31:01,160 --> 01:31:03,640
Speaker 2: a minute. He took me into the bathroom, you know,

1854
01:31:03,720 --> 01:31:06,240
Speaker 2: and said, and then five guys come in the bathroom

1855
01:31:06,240 --> 01:31:08,559
Speaker 2: and what the fuck this said? Let me explain something

1856
01:31:08,600 --> 01:31:11,680
Speaker 2: to you. It said, Okay, said basically, you know, we're

1857
01:31:11,720 --> 01:31:13,120
Speaker 2: playing the Ship out of your record, but you know

1858
01:31:13,160 --> 01:31:14,800
Speaker 2: we can play the Ship out of his record or

1859
01:31:14,880 --> 01:31:17,639
Speaker 2: her record or his record too. But here's here's here's

1860
01:31:17,680 --> 01:31:19,880
Speaker 2: your payback for this. We're gonna do it. We're doing this.

1861
01:31:20,000 --> 01:31:22,320
Speaker 2: We're also concert promoters. We're gonna do a series of

1862
01:31:22,400 --> 01:31:26,639
Speaker 2: shows in the d C, d M v DC, Maryland, Virginia.

1863
01:31:27,560 --> 01:31:31,320
Speaker 2: It was P. P. Funk, Natalie Cole and the Bootsy

1864
01:31:31,320 --> 01:31:35,000
Speaker 2: and the Brothers Johnson and whatever you're going rate is,

1865
01:31:35,080 --> 01:31:37,040
Speaker 2: it's not gonna be your going rate. So and we'll

1866
01:31:37,120 --> 01:31:40,320
Speaker 2: keep you'll keep those spins up. And they did and

1867
01:31:40,479 --> 01:31:43,120
Speaker 2: we did, and uh, this is.

1868
01:31:43,240 --> 01:31:47,360
Speaker 1: How the Chef Gordon Teddy Pendergrast story comes into play

1869
01:31:47,680 --> 01:31:53,000
Speaker 1: because Shef Gordon told us that programmers and DJs were

1870
01:31:53,160 --> 01:31:56,320
Speaker 1: like any concerts that you saw in the seventies and

1871
01:31:56,360 --> 01:32:00,960
Speaker 1: eighties were due to the radio station, not independent of Hey,

1872
01:32:01,640 --> 01:32:03,479
Speaker 1: I'm coming to town and you pay me.

1873
01:32:03,800 --> 01:32:06,840
Speaker 3: Right, so they the promo show.

1874
01:32:06,960 --> 01:32:09,439
Speaker 4: I guess era getting of the promo shows because that.

1875
01:32:12,000 --> 01:32:14,479
Speaker 2: Show you're gonna play our Christmas show? You know years

1876
01:32:14,520 --> 01:32:17,560
Speaker 2: later A see, So how did they kill it?

1877
01:32:17,640 --> 01:32:19,080
Speaker 4: How did black radio kill it? For you?

1878
01:32:19,800 --> 01:32:23,000
Speaker 2: There's so much I don't want to say payola, but

1879
01:32:23,200 --> 01:32:27,519
Speaker 2: just there are limited spots. Guys were taking money and

1880
01:32:27,600 --> 01:32:28,960
Speaker 2: then you know they wouldn't play the way you know,

1881
01:32:29,040 --> 01:32:30,479
Speaker 2: it didn't get the spends that you know that you

1882
01:32:31,040 --> 01:32:33,400
Speaker 2: expected to get, you know, so many hours in the

1883
01:32:33,479 --> 01:32:36,799
Speaker 2: day and then you know, but legitimate hits got played,

1884
01:32:36,880 --> 01:32:38,840
Speaker 2: but stuff that you know that you you want to

1885
01:32:38,880 --> 01:32:40,560
Speaker 2: get a shot. You know, I think we could do

1886
01:32:40,640 --> 01:32:42,439
Speaker 2: well with this. Here's X amount. You know, I need

1887
01:32:42,560 --> 01:32:47,080
Speaker 2: whatever fifty spins this weekend. Whatever didn't happen, you know,

1888
01:32:47,160 --> 01:32:49,320
Speaker 2: guys took your money and ran, you know, and then

1889
01:32:49,439 --> 01:32:53,160
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, there's no loyalty anymore to legacy acts.

1890
01:32:53,560 --> 01:32:56,000
Speaker 2: You know. You know when you see like that, I'm

1891
01:32:56,040 --> 01:32:59,320
Speaker 2: talking early into late nineties. When you're seeing that, Luther Stevie,

1892
01:32:59,520 --> 01:33:01,360
Speaker 2: I need a People out there are having to fight

1893
01:33:01,439 --> 01:33:04,639
Speaker 2: to get on the radio at black radio. That's really

1894
01:33:04,680 --> 01:33:07,200
Speaker 2: a sad state of affairs, it is.

1895
01:33:07,680 --> 01:33:08,800
Speaker 3: I think about it all the time.

1896
01:33:08,880 --> 01:33:12,080
Speaker 1: But for you, it's like when when do you consider

1897
01:33:12,400 --> 01:33:16,679
Speaker 1: you leaving or do you consider yourself completely graduated from

1898
01:33:17,439 --> 01:33:18,799
Speaker 1: quote unquote the business?

1899
01:33:19,000 --> 01:33:21,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, am I'm more or less retired. I still do

1900
01:33:21,640 --> 01:33:23,920
Speaker 2: little bits and pieces of stuff here and there, you know,

1901
01:33:23,960 --> 01:33:26,240
Speaker 2: because I get these occasional phone calls, Hey, Ed, I

1902
01:33:26,320 --> 01:33:28,720
Speaker 2: got an idea, And I always say, does the check

1903
01:33:28,760 --> 01:33:32,600
Speaker 2: come with that idea? I'll pay attention. So what do

1904
01:33:32,720 --> 01:33:33,320
Speaker 2: you is.

1905
01:33:33,520 --> 01:33:35,439
Speaker 3: Watching the State of music right now?

1906
01:33:36,640 --> 01:33:39,479
Speaker 2: Is it a dizzying experience somewhat?

1907
01:33:39,560 --> 01:33:42,519
Speaker 3: Is it like a beautiful mind meme where you see

1908
01:33:43,280 --> 01:33:45,160
Speaker 3: like is it like that for you?

1909
01:33:45,320 --> 01:33:48,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, somewhat. It was interesting. In preparation for today, I

1910
01:33:48,680 --> 01:33:50,920
Speaker 2: was thinking about, you know, I said, if I get

1911
01:33:50,960 --> 01:33:53,400
Speaker 2: asked the question, what are you listening to? And I

1912
01:33:53,439 --> 01:33:56,240
Speaker 2: had to realize I hate answering that question. Yeah, I

1913
01:33:56,320 --> 01:33:59,120
Speaker 2: realized that, you know, of most of the new stuff

1914
01:33:59,120 --> 01:34:01,000
Speaker 2: that I listened to is old stuff that's either been

1915
01:34:01,080 --> 01:34:04,760
Speaker 2: released or it's new on my radar, you know. But

1916
01:34:05,000 --> 01:34:06,519
Speaker 2: it's just not a lot of new stuff that you know,

1917
01:34:06,560 --> 01:34:08,280
Speaker 2: I don't mean to sound like an old man, but

1918
01:34:08,320 --> 01:34:09,600
Speaker 2: it's not a new a lot of new stuff that

1919
01:34:09,720 --> 01:34:10,479
Speaker 2: rocks my world, you know.

1920
01:34:10,560 --> 01:34:14,720
Speaker 3: Know, We're we're a band of a folk who it's

1921
01:34:14,760 --> 01:34:15,640
Speaker 3: somewhat frustrated.

1922
01:34:16,120 --> 01:34:17,720
Speaker 4: It's just harder to find it these days. There's way

1923
01:34:17,720 --> 01:34:19,960
Speaker 4: too many options. Because at the same time we say that,

1924
01:34:20,000 --> 01:34:22,000
Speaker 4: but then I also I'll hear y'all two talking about

1925
01:34:22,040 --> 01:34:23,640
Speaker 4: like new R and B acts and stuff like that

1926
01:34:23,720 --> 01:34:25,679
Speaker 4: that I've never heard of, and I'm just like, fuck,

1927
01:34:25,760 --> 01:34:27,200
Speaker 4: how do I even find these people?

1928
01:34:28,040 --> 01:34:28,200
Speaker 2: Well?

1929
01:34:28,520 --> 01:34:30,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I mean, now you have to have

1930
01:34:30,320 --> 01:34:31,040
Speaker 3: the patience to.

1931
01:34:32,760 --> 01:34:35,880
Speaker 1: You know, either scroll on the internet or in my case,

1932
01:34:36,840 --> 01:34:41,080
Speaker 1: I have at least twenty music snobs that I just

1933
01:34:41,160 --> 01:34:43,519
Speaker 1: peek on their Spotify and see what they're listening to,

1934
01:34:43,600 --> 01:34:44,000
Speaker 1: and then.

1935
01:34:44,240 --> 01:34:46,559
Speaker 3: I'll take that and take That's how I know whose

1936
01:34:46,560 --> 01:34:47,720
Speaker 3: salt was, you know what I mean?

1937
01:34:47,840 --> 01:34:48,760
Speaker 2: So I like salt.

1938
01:34:49,120 --> 01:34:52,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's quick, there's there's there's a few, a few left.

1939
01:34:52,560 --> 01:34:55,280
Speaker 8: I don't want to ask what year. So you're president

1940
01:34:55,520 --> 01:34:59,280
Speaker 8: of a Mercury from what years?

1941
01:34:59,360 --> 01:34:59,760
Speaker 3: When did you?

1942
01:35:00,000 --> 01:35:03,080
Speaker 2: I was co president? Initially, I was a polygra. I

1943
01:35:03,120 --> 01:35:06,040
Speaker 2: was a PolyGram during the wing from nineteen eighty six

1944
01:35:06,640 --> 01:35:09,479
Speaker 2: to nineteen eighty eight, and then I became co president

1945
01:35:09,560 --> 01:35:13,080
Speaker 2: of Mercury from nineteen eighty eight till nineteen ninety with

1946
01:35:13,160 --> 01:35:16,479
Speaker 2: a guy called Mike Bone, and then I became the

1947
01:35:16,520 --> 01:35:19,000
Speaker 2: sole president from nineteen ninety till I left to nineteen

1948
01:35:19,080 --> 01:35:19,479
Speaker 2: ninety eight.

1949
01:35:19,960 --> 01:35:21,760
Speaker 3: Oh wow, Okay, it was a run.

1950
01:35:22,120 --> 01:35:25,240
Speaker 8: So in terms of I wanted to know with hip hop,

1951
01:35:25,680 --> 01:35:28,080
Speaker 8: looking back on it now, like Murcury was always a

1952
01:35:28,200 --> 01:35:30,719
Speaker 8: label with hip hop. I mean, y'all had black sheet

1953
01:35:30,960 --> 01:35:34,880
Speaker 8: you know what I'm saying. You had like elous scratch, you.

1954
01:35:34,880 --> 01:35:35,320
Speaker 2: Know what I'm saying.

1955
01:35:35,360 --> 01:35:38,760
Speaker 3: Like y'all have records edog, you know what I mean.

1956
01:35:38,880 --> 01:35:41,920
Speaker 8: And so for me, it seems like Mercury was one

1957
01:35:41,920 --> 01:35:45,000
Speaker 8: of the first labels that I in retrospect. Now, they

1958
01:35:45,120 --> 01:35:48,479
Speaker 8: y'all had like records and artists, but it was kind

1959
01:35:48,560 --> 01:35:52,519
Speaker 8: of like unless that artists was attached to like black.

1960
01:35:52,320 --> 01:35:54,439
Speaker 3: Sheet, they were attached to Native tones, you know what

1961
01:35:54,439 --> 01:35:54,840
Speaker 3: I'm saying.

1962
01:35:55,160 --> 01:35:57,360
Speaker 8: But if you had artists that had great records, if

1963
01:35:57,400 --> 01:36:01,439
Speaker 8: they weren't attached to another production company, like you know

1964
01:36:01,479 --> 01:36:04,639
Speaker 8: what I'm saying, or like like you know what became

1965
01:36:04,760 --> 01:36:08,280
Speaker 8: Rockefeller and murder In and all of those things, it

1966
01:36:08,439 --> 01:36:12,120
Speaker 8: was kind of the beginning for me of losing faith.

1967
01:36:12,640 --> 01:36:14,680
Speaker 3: In major labels doing hip hop.

1968
01:36:15,040 --> 01:36:18,960
Speaker 8: Like if I just saw Columbia, I'm like that, if

1969
01:36:19,080 --> 01:36:22,320
Speaker 8: I see, you know, Rockefeller slash, I'm like, oh, okay.

1970
01:36:22,200 --> 01:36:24,320
Speaker 2: You know what I mean, it's like a good housekeeping

1971
01:36:24,600 --> 01:36:27,519
Speaker 2: stamp over approval or the Quincy Jones reduction. Yeah, exactly,

1972
01:36:27,800 --> 01:36:28,200
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.

1973
01:36:28,400 --> 01:36:32,280
Speaker 8: So, how did you as a labelhad how did push

1974
01:36:32,360 --> 01:36:34,320
Speaker 8: in hip hop coming from like the pop background and

1975
01:36:34,360 --> 01:36:37,320
Speaker 8: with Clive and stuff, How did you adapt to marketing

1976
01:36:37,400 --> 01:36:37,760
Speaker 8: hip hop?

1977
01:36:38,600 --> 01:36:40,160
Speaker 2: You just see, you get in where you can fit in,

1978
01:36:40,280 --> 01:36:42,639
Speaker 2: you know. And if it was this case of finding

1979
01:36:42,640 --> 01:36:45,120
Speaker 2: stuff that was attached to somebody else or something else,

1980
01:36:45,400 --> 01:36:47,960
Speaker 2: that's how you did it, you know, because you knew

1981
01:36:47,960 --> 01:36:50,240
Speaker 2: there was an uphill climb if you're starting it from scratch,

1982
01:36:50,720 --> 01:36:53,400
Speaker 2: because at radio once again, the first question you're going

1983
01:36:53,479 --> 01:36:55,400
Speaker 2: to ask is who are they down with? You know who?

1984
01:36:56,920 --> 01:36:59,840
Speaker 9: So it was that, you know, Similarly, there's like a

1985
01:36:59,880 --> 01:37:03,040
Speaker 9: new phase of white rock music in the same time period, right,

1986
01:37:03,040 --> 01:37:06,280
Speaker 9: it's bon Jovi, def Leppard, Mellencamp, Tears for Fears, Kiss, Like,

1987
01:37:07,080 --> 01:37:09,920
Speaker 9: what what made the diversity of what you were doing?

1988
01:37:09,960 --> 01:37:11,320
Speaker 9: I think you started with R and B. Now it's

1989
01:37:11,680 --> 01:37:14,200
Speaker 9: rock music like they were. How'd you feel about being

1990
01:37:14,280 --> 01:37:15,679
Speaker 9: that guy that ushered that kind of stuff?

1991
01:37:15,880 --> 01:37:18,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, the h all those artists were already at the

1992
01:37:18,160 --> 01:37:20,120
Speaker 2: label when I got there, you know, I inherited them,

1993
01:37:20,560 --> 01:37:23,240
Speaker 2: and it was interesting.

1994
01:37:23,360 --> 01:37:25,439
Speaker 3: Did you have good relationships with most of them?

1995
01:37:26,280 --> 01:37:28,320
Speaker 1: Or did you did you feel that there was resistance

1996
01:37:28,360 --> 01:37:30,640
Speaker 1: from the rock people that maybe you don't understand them.

1997
01:37:30,840 --> 01:37:33,160
Speaker 1: I know there was a situation where Sylvia roon at

1998
01:37:33,479 --> 01:37:36,840
Speaker 1: Elektra with like Metallica, and there was a lot of

1999
01:37:36,880 --> 01:37:39,719
Speaker 1: disrespect on their end because they're like, who does.

2000
01:37:39,640 --> 01:37:40,840
Speaker 3: This black woman know about that?

2001
01:37:41,080 --> 01:37:43,400
Speaker 2: Like I had my version of that, you know. One

2002
01:37:43,479 --> 01:37:45,680
Speaker 2: point was sort of asked the question, what does he

2003
01:37:45,800 --> 01:37:47,720
Speaker 2: know about rock and roll, and I say a whole

2004
01:37:47,760 --> 01:37:49,120
Speaker 2: lot more than you know about R and B.

2005
01:37:49,640 --> 01:37:52,240
Speaker 4: You know that my people created it, right.

2006
01:37:53,400 --> 01:37:56,879
Speaker 9: But there's a line here that says John Mellencamp being difficult.

2007
01:37:57,160 --> 01:38:08,080
Speaker 3: I'm sure there's a story there said John's also an essentric.

2008
01:38:08,160 --> 01:38:09,519
Speaker 3: I think all artists are centric.

2009
01:38:10,520 --> 01:38:15,599
Speaker 2: So you know, I liked him, but he's he definitely

2010
01:38:15,840 --> 01:38:21,760
Speaker 2: what's the Q tip line record? Yeah, John definitely read

2011
01:38:21,800 --> 01:38:25,799
Speaker 2: that book and then had had suspicion of everybody. Everybody

2012
01:38:25,840 --> 01:38:27,240
Speaker 2: record company is an idiot.

2013
01:38:26,960 --> 01:38:29,400
Speaker 1: You know, and uh and you know, and he was

2014
01:38:29,439 --> 01:38:31,920
Speaker 1: successful though he was, but he just had you know,

2015
01:38:32,520 --> 01:38:35,000
Speaker 1: everything was were you the brain chow behind him?

2016
01:38:37,439 --> 01:38:43,599
Speaker 2: What is Tim? Tim wi our new words a lot?

2017
01:38:46,280 --> 01:38:48,800
Speaker 2: Tim White? Timothy White who used to be the editor

2018
01:38:48,840 --> 01:38:51,560
Speaker 2: of Billboard. Tim and I were pretty friendly, and he

2019
01:38:51,640 --> 01:38:54,160
Speaker 2: was one of John's closest friends. And I knew that

2020
01:38:54,280 --> 01:38:56,479
Speaker 2: if I pitched John directly, here's an idea I have

2021
01:38:56,600 --> 01:39:01,160
Speaker 2: for a duet, But he was fuck you. So Tim

2022
01:39:01,280 --> 01:39:03,439
Speaker 2: calls me at one point and says we're having a conversation.

2023
01:39:03,520 --> 01:39:05,400
Speaker 2: He goes, I'm trying to help John make some sense

2024
01:39:05,400 --> 01:39:07,439
Speaker 2: to this next record. He said, what do you think?

2025
01:39:07,520 --> 01:39:09,679
Speaker 2: I said, Well, a cover might be a cool idea.

2026
01:39:09,920 --> 01:39:12,800
Speaker 2: I covered it day he goes let's got it, I said,

2027
01:39:13,040 --> 01:39:15,880
Speaker 2: Michelle and na Ocello, she was the girl of the moment,

2028
01:39:15,920 --> 01:39:18,640
Speaker 2: and so I said, John, you know it's satisfied his

2029
01:39:18,800 --> 01:39:20,800
Speaker 2: Negro Jane and so.

2030
01:39:21,720 --> 01:39:24,280
Speaker 1: Hey, this is once play a little Ricorvette at a

2031
01:39:24,360 --> 01:39:27,559
Speaker 1: walk man like to his audience, like back in.

2032
01:39:27,560 --> 01:39:30,720
Speaker 2: Eighty two, and so yeah, Tim basically with the John

2033
01:39:30,800 --> 01:39:33,799
Speaker 2: So here's an idea, but min and John Levan Morrison,

2034
01:39:33,880 --> 01:39:35,560
Speaker 2: so it's cool. Then he did it.

2035
01:39:37,040 --> 01:39:39,200
Speaker 1: I was at I was at a Michelle show at

2036
01:39:39,240 --> 01:39:41,800
Speaker 1: the Blue Note and some poor soul in the back

2037
01:39:41,960 --> 01:39:43,040
Speaker 1: was like shouted it out.

2038
01:39:43,680 --> 01:39:48,200
Speaker 2: I was like, how was the response?

2039
01:39:49,040 --> 01:39:51,400
Speaker 3: She laughed, Okay, oh thats how.

2040
01:39:51,720 --> 01:39:56,439
Speaker 8: Involving you and the creation of Vanessa's The Comfort Zone

2041
01:39:56,479 --> 01:39:57,599
Speaker 8: album one.

2042
01:39:57,520 --> 01:40:00,240
Speaker 2: Hundred percent okay, producer you work with on it?

2043
01:40:00,439 --> 01:40:01,000
Speaker 8: Keith Thomas.

2044
01:40:01,240 --> 01:40:03,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, Keith, Yeah, man, Like, how did that?

2045
01:40:03,840 --> 01:40:06,559
Speaker 8: Because was my favorite song on that album again, good

2046
01:40:06,600 --> 01:40:10,800
Speaker 8: Bye that was by MC knights comes in at the end.

2047
01:40:14,520 --> 01:40:19,479
Speaker 2: That was the Yeah, Keith Thomas, because I really like

2048
01:40:19,560 --> 01:40:21,600
Speaker 2: the B, B and C C record I'm Lost Without You.

2049
01:40:21,840 --> 01:40:22,040
Speaker 6: Yeah.

2050
01:40:23,479 --> 01:40:26,000
Speaker 2: And then Keith had produced that record, wrote and produced

2051
01:40:26,040 --> 01:40:29,599
Speaker 2: that record, and uh, Keith was kind of Christian David Foster,

2052
01:40:29,880 --> 01:40:31,960
Speaker 2: you know, that was the vibe, you know. And when

2053
01:40:32,080 --> 01:40:34,439
Speaker 2: when the publishing person played me save the Best for

2054
01:40:34,600 --> 01:40:37,040
Speaker 2: Last and I said yeah, and I played for v

2055
01:40:37,200 --> 01:40:39,280
Speaker 2: and she dug it. I said, who's the right person

2056
01:40:39,320 --> 01:40:40,880
Speaker 2: to produce that? Foster would be great to do it,

2057
01:40:40,920 --> 01:40:44,200
Speaker 2: but I know he won't. But Uh, Keith Thomas. I

2058
01:40:44,280 --> 01:40:46,840
Speaker 2: called Keith Scott. Folks who was in our capit on

2059
01:40:46,920 --> 01:40:50,960
Speaker 2: those days, front on you, everybody fronted up.

2060
01:40:51,160 --> 01:40:53,519
Speaker 3: Dreaming was a proven hit by the folks.

2061
01:40:53,720 --> 01:40:57,000
Speaker 2: Folks fronted, yeah, she had to do it again to

2062
01:40:57,080 --> 01:40:58,200
Speaker 2: prove it. Yeah, exactly.

2063
01:40:58,400 --> 01:40:58,920
Speaker 3: Goddamn.

2064
01:40:59,479 --> 01:41:02,439
Speaker 2: Keith respect called Keith and and they and they, and

2065
01:41:02,520 --> 01:41:04,880
Speaker 2: he said, yeah, I'm down. The funny part about is

2066
01:41:05,000 --> 01:41:08,960
Speaker 2: Keith's production assistant had sent me a cassette of just

2067
01:41:09,120 --> 01:41:12,040
Speaker 2: ideas that he had and then left out to two

2068
01:41:12,160 --> 01:41:13,800
Speaker 2: songs that Keith thought had come to me he thought

2069
01:41:13,840 --> 01:41:15,760
Speaker 2: it passed on. One of them was Baby Baby, the

2070
01:41:15,760 --> 01:41:18,200
Speaker 2: Amy Grant record, and the other was the song that

2071
01:41:18,360 --> 01:41:20,519
Speaker 2: was this big Selena hit. So that's that's the Keith

2072
01:41:20,600 --> 01:41:23,360
Speaker 2: Thomas story. You know, Keith, Keith, Keith was a good dude.

2073
01:41:23,280 --> 01:41:25,840
Speaker 8: And how was it, because another one of your hip

2074
01:41:25,880 --> 01:41:27,400
Speaker 8: hop I really like Dimond D.

2075
01:41:27,720 --> 01:41:29,719
Speaker 3: He had what you involve.

2076
01:41:30,120 --> 01:41:32,080
Speaker 2: We had a deal with I can't remember the name

2077
01:41:32,080 --> 01:41:35,240
Speaker 2: of the label, Mstry Chemistry Records, Chemistry Records, a guy

2078
01:41:35,240 --> 01:41:38,720
Speaker 2: called Brian Chen. Brian was the dance dance music editor

2079
01:41:38,800 --> 01:41:41,120
Speaker 2: Billboard for a long time. And and Brian had a

2080
01:41:41,200 --> 01:41:43,680
Speaker 2: partner whose name escapes me right now, but they did,

2081
01:41:44,280 --> 01:41:48,519
Speaker 2: they did, They had chemistry. Eto Ge was theirs. Yeah,

2082
01:41:48,520 --> 01:41:49,560
Speaker 2: a few things. Diamond D.

2083
01:41:50,320 --> 01:41:59,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, so yeah, can you please tell us the girlfriend's story?

2084
01:42:00,479 --> 01:42:07,080
Speaker 2: Oh? Sure. So nineteen eighty seven, eighty six, eighty seven,

2085
01:42:07,080 --> 01:42:09,960
Speaker 2: I'm working with Vanessa on her first record, so we're

2086
01:42:10,000 --> 01:42:12,920
Speaker 2: trying to make some sense of who would produce, who

2087
01:42:12,960 --> 01:42:15,960
Speaker 2: would work with on that record. And I knew these

2088
01:42:16,000 --> 01:42:20,639
Speaker 2: two guys from Cincinnati at the time, called Kenny Edmunds

2089
01:42:20,680 --> 01:42:23,519
Speaker 2: and Antonio Reid. I had met them because when I

2090
01:42:23,560 --> 01:42:28,480
Speaker 2: was working for Quincy, there was a local street producer entrepreneur,

2091
01:42:28,520 --> 01:42:31,599
Speaker 2: a guy called Pablo Davis in the Cincinnati, Columbus, Ohio area,

2092
01:42:32,280 --> 01:42:36,600
Speaker 2: and Pablo turned me onto the Callaway Brothers then and

2093
01:42:36,720 --> 01:42:40,480
Speaker 2: also and he was looking after Kenny. Kenny and Antonio

2094
01:42:41,200 --> 01:42:44,400
Speaker 2: they were just becoming La and Babyface. They hadn't gotten

2095
01:42:44,439 --> 01:42:46,880
Speaker 2: on yet, and they came by my office, had Vanessa

2096
01:42:46,960 --> 01:42:49,120
Speaker 2: go by their place and they worked. She worked with

2097
01:42:49,200 --> 01:42:53,479
Speaker 2: him on some songs and they gave he a song

2098
01:42:53,560 --> 01:42:56,240
Speaker 2: called Girlfriend, which was great. I forget who was singing

2099
01:42:56,280 --> 01:42:58,600
Speaker 2: the lead on the demo, and I've heard it, so

2100
01:42:58,760 --> 01:43:01,000
Speaker 2: this smash. I got to have this record, and I

2101
01:43:01,080 --> 01:43:04,040
Speaker 2: thought we'd made a deal. We played let's make a deal,

2102
01:43:04,720 --> 01:43:08,720
Speaker 2: and v was she was pregnant with her first child

2103
01:43:08,800 --> 01:43:12,760
Speaker 2: at that point, and I guess truth of the matter

2104
01:43:12,880 --> 01:43:15,439
Speaker 2: is cut to the end, Pebbles was the perfect person

2105
01:43:15,520 --> 01:43:17,759
Speaker 2: for it because she had the attitude. She was that persona.

2106
01:43:18,040 --> 01:43:19,320
Speaker 2: Vanessa's not that persona.

2107
01:43:19,600 --> 01:43:23,160
Speaker 13: But it was tried with the yeah, yeah, the right

2108
01:43:23,200 --> 01:43:25,200
Speaker 13: stuff was a little bomb squatted out and yeah and

2109
01:43:26,400 --> 01:43:30,519
Speaker 13: and the second single, uh from the cumber Zone.

2110
01:43:30,320 --> 01:43:37,240
Speaker 2: Album, Yeah, running back to you, right, yeah, so attitude anyway, So,

2111
01:43:37,439 --> 01:43:38,880
Speaker 2: like I said, I thought it had made a deal

2112
01:43:38,920 --> 01:43:41,160
Speaker 2: for these like four songs on the tape, that we

2113
01:43:41,240 --> 01:43:44,280
Speaker 2: wanted them all and her girlfriend was one of them.

2114
01:43:44,720 --> 01:43:46,840
Speaker 2: And at the last minute, right when I thought it

2115
01:43:46,920 --> 01:43:50,120
Speaker 2: was time for us to get started, l A Bales,

2116
01:43:50,280 --> 01:43:51,800
Speaker 2: he said, He said, I can't fuck with you on

2117
01:43:51,840 --> 01:43:54,000
Speaker 2: this recommend. You know, I guess Lowell that he played

2118
01:43:54,040 --> 01:43:56,680
Speaker 2: him for Lowell and Lil you know Lowland Jerrell and

2119
01:43:56,800 --> 01:43:58,760
Speaker 2: they you know, they loved him, loved it, and then

2120
01:43:58,960 --> 01:44:01,080
Speaker 2: you know, threw money I made and Offrey couldn't refuse,

2121
01:44:01,600 --> 01:44:04,960
Speaker 2: and you know I got left ass out. So yeah,

2122
01:44:05,080 --> 01:44:07,160
Speaker 2: I wasn't. I was, you know, it was it was.

2123
01:44:07,280 --> 01:44:09,240
Speaker 2: It was nearly an an R wars, you know, because

2124
01:44:09,240 --> 01:44:11,080
Speaker 2: I was like, I want to beat this brother's ass.

2125
01:44:13,880 --> 01:44:15,640
Speaker 2: Thank you man. Yeah.

2126
01:44:15,800 --> 01:44:19,800
Speaker 3: So, so what do you feel from Afar.

2127
01:44:20,840 --> 01:44:22,360
Speaker 2: From CET three or two of the Bleachers?

2128
01:44:22,880 --> 01:44:28,320
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly. Do you have hope that.

2129
01:44:29,960 --> 01:44:32,439
Speaker 1: Sort of the thing that And again, I know this

2130
01:44:32,560 --> 01:44:35,800
Speaker 1: is such a subjective question because I'm certain that there's

2131
01:44:35,920 --> 01:44:39,920
Speaker 1: some fourteen year old that's in their feelings at a

2132
01:44:40,080 --> 01:44:43,519
Speaker 1: Billie Eilish show that you know, probably the same way

2133
01:44:43,720 --> 01:44:46,360
Speaker 1: your dad's looking at Sli the family Stone, like what

2134
01:44:46,520 --> 01:44:47,000
Speaker 1: the hell is this?

2135
01:44:47,240 --> 01:44:48,679
Speaker 3: Like I knew Billy.

2136
01:44:48,479 --> 01:44:52,320
Speaker 1: Holliday, But in your mind, do you think that there

2137
01:44:52,400 --> 01:44:58,160
Speaker 1: will be an itch that gets scratched as far as

2138
01:44:58,240 --> 01:45:02,040
Speaker 1: your relationship to music and and what brought you to it?

2139
01:45:03,080 --> 01:45:04,679
Speaker 2: I don't know, Or is it just in your kid's

2140
01:45:04,720 --> 01:45:06,960
Speaker 2: hands down is my kid's hands down, because there's a

2141
01:45:07,000 --> 01:45:09,400
Speaker 2: certain aspect of it that I wonder that, you know,

2142
01:45:09,800 --> 01:45:12,479
Speaker 2: if the tree falls in the forest, does anybody hear it?

2143
01:45:12,560 --> 01:45:15,160
Speaker 2: You know, I'm wondering at times that if whatever that

2144
01:45:15,320 --> 01:45:18,800
Speaker 2: next big flash point is, if it happens, William Bay

2145
01:45:18,840 --> 01:45:21,040
Speaker 2: really how much William Bay really give a fuck? And

2146
01:45:21,200 --> 01:45:25,519
Speaker 2: the give a fuck factor is decidedly different now in

2147
01:45:25,600 --> 01:45:29,640
Speaker 2: terms of what that impact is. You know, it's the

2148
01:45:30,120 --> 01:45:31,640
Speaker 2: because there's so many options, you know.

2149
01:45:32,560 --> 01:45:36,280
Speaker 1: You know, this is probably this is this is the

2150
01:45:36,360 --> 01:45:38,760
Speaker 1: episode that I wish. The Faith Newman episode was like

2151
01:45:38,800 --> 01:45:44,320
Speaker 1: I feel satisfied. I always always tease her about like,

2152
01:45:44,520 --> 01:45:46,360
Speaker 1: you know, you made the worst Q less.

2153
01:45:48,280 --> 01:45:51,080
Speaker 2: It's just the Monica episode was the bomb.

2154
01:45:52,600 --> 01:45:55,320
Speaker 4: That's your favorite's favorite QL episode so far.

2155
01:45:56,280 --> 01:45:59,360
Speaker 2: Bootsy was cool. That was great. Monica was cool.

2156
01:45:59,880 --> 01:46:03,360
Speaker 1: You're gonna love the Robert Townsend episode. That is like

2157
01:46:03,560 --> 01:46:06,640
Speaker 1: Robert Towns in it. In my opinion, has put the

2158
01:46:06,760 --> 01:46:09,479
Speaker 1: Family Stand Jimmy Jam was first.

2159
01:46:09,640 --> 01:46:10,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jam was great.

2160
01:46:10,640 --> 01:46:12,960
Speaker 1: That was great, But then for me, the Family Stand

2161
01:46:13,360 --> 01:46:17,120
Speaker 1: episode was the Jimmy Jam episode with humor and a

2162
01:46:17,200 --> 01:46:20,920
Speaker 1: lot of salacious, unnecessary.

2163
01:46:21,600 --> 01:46:23,120
Speaker 3: And are slashing.

2164
01:46:24,400 --> 01:46:27,479
Speaker 1: I pray that Sylvia comes on the show eventually, and

2165
01:46:27,560 --> 01:46:31,200
Speaker 1: then Robert. I don't know the Robert Towns's episode was

2166
01:46:31,240 --> 01:46:35,479
Speaker 1: an unexpected nice surprise. But no, this is equally satisfied. Man,

2167
01:46:35,640 --> 01:46:37,519
Speaker 1: I learned so much today, man can reach.

2168
01:46:37,720 --> 01:46:41,080
Speaker 4: One roots question. Yes, So in retrospect, as you were

2169
01:46:41,120 --> 01:46:44,320
Speaker 4: watching this ship go by without you, did you ever

2170
01:46:44,400 --> 01:46:46,240
Speaker 4: have any moments where you were like, man, if I

2171
01:46:46,240 --> 01:46:47,720
Speaker 4: only able to sign with me, I would have did

2172
01:46:47,800 --> 01:46:49,600
Speaker 4: da d H. I would have been had them and

2173
01:46:49,680 --> 01:46:49,880
Speaker 4: so and.

2174
01:46:49,920 --> 01:46:51,800
Speaker 3: So and so someone told you that five minutes after

2175
01:46:51,880 --> 01:46:52,880
Speaker 3: this episode.

2176
01:46:55,960 --> 01:47:00,320
Speaker 2: For us, for me my roots moment because once again

2177
01:47:00,360 --> 01:47:02,800
Speaker 2: I wasn't as invested at the time when you were

2178
01:47:02,800 --> 01:47:05,679
Speaker 2: showcasing it was really Lisa and Kenyata and I would

2179
01:47:05,760 --> 01:47:08,200
Speaker 2: have jumped on board had you know, had we gotten

2180
01:47:08,240 --> 01:47:10,240
Speaker 2: the mid green lighted the deal, So I would have

2181
01:47:10,320 --> 01:47:12,360
Speaker 2: jumped on board to give you a little sidebar to

2182
01:47:12,439 --> 01:47:14,960
Speaker 2: digress them. But how the whole thing went down when

2183
01:47:15,040 --> 01:47:16,960
Speaker 2: you know a couple of names were spelled wrong. Yes,

2184
01:47:17,160 --> 01:47:19,840
Speaker 2: that ended up being a huge moment for us inside

2185
01:47:19,880 --> 01:47:22,719
Speaker 2: the label because a PolyGram At that time, all business

2186
01:47:22,760 --> 01:47:25,600
Speaker 2: affairs was kind of done centrally out of corporate and

2187
01:47:25,680 --> 01:47:28,599
Speaker 2: the label. Individual labels didn't have their own business affairs people,

2188
01:47:28,920 --> 01:47:31,120
Speaker 2: and I made so much fucking noise.

2189
01:47:30,880 --> 01:47:32,719
Speaker 4: About that I fired fired somebody.

2190
01:47:32,840 --> 01:47:34,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I didn't fire the person, but one of

2191
01:47:34,920 --> 01:47:37,120
Speaker 2: the business fairs persons. And ultimately what it led to

2192
01:47:37,400 --> 01:47:41,160
Speaker 2: was me getting my own business fairs person inside of

2193
01:47:41,200 --> 01:47:43,640
Speaker 2: the company, which is a woman called Julie Swiddler and

2194
01:47:43,720 --> 01:47:46,200
Speaker 2: Swiddler's Julie's now they had of business affairs and has

2195
01:47:46,280 --> 01:47:48,719
Speaker 2: been for the last ten years at Sony globally.

2196
01:47:49,120 --> 01:47:51,599
Speaker 3: So yeah, and she crossed every team, do every idea

2197
01:47:51,800 --> 01:47:52,400
Speaker 3: right exactly.

2198
01:47:53,479 --> 01:47:56,400
Speaker 2: So I was drugg that we lost you. But answer

2199
01:47:56,400 --> 01:47:59,760
Speaker 2: your question, what really resonated with me was when you

2200
01:47:59,800 --> 01:48:03,240
Speaker 2: got went to England, because I was dealing with Giles

2201
01:48:03,280 --> 01:48:07,040
Speaker 2: a lot in those days. And then also that how

2202
01:48:07,160 --> 01:48:10,960
Speaker 2: you know when you initially blew up quote unquote blew up.

2203
01:48:11,720 --> 01:48:14,840
Speaker 2: I met a couple of my friend's kids, white who

2204
01:48:14,880 --> 01:48:17,320
Speaker 2: were college students in the East, were he have you.

2205
01:48:17,360 --> 01:48:19,240
Speaker 3: Heard ever heard of the roots red?

2206
01:48:19,600 --> 01:48:23,519
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure that was me, So yeah, there's a

2207
01:48:23,520 --> 01:48:25,439
Speaker 2: lot of that. I was like, I loved what you

2208
01:48:25,520 --> 01:48:27,400
Speaker 2: guys were generating it on your own, because I don't

2209
01:48:27,400 --> 01:48:28,400
Speaker 2: think it was being marketed that.

2210
01:48:29,080 --> 01:48:31,639
Speaker 1: Now, Wendy Goldstein did what was allowed at the time.

2211
01:48:31,760 --> 01:48:35,479
Speaker 1: But you know, it's almost like literally the second we signed,

2212
01:48:35,600 --> 01:48:38,920
Speaker 1: then the crisis started happening. No more Nirvana, no more Aerosmith,

2213
01:48:39,000 --> 01:48:42,160
Speaker 1: no more you know, guns and Roses. And then it's like, ah,

2214
01:48:42,520 --> 01:48:44,200
Speaker 1: we should have went to the PolyGram.

2215
01:48:44,479 --> 01:48:46,200
Speaker 2: Maybe I got a couple of things here.

2216
01:48:46,520 --> 01:48:53,160
Speaker 3: Yes, Yes, he's presenting me with records. Yeah, whoa, Okay,

2217
01:48:54,120 --> 01:48:55,080
Speaker 3: he explaining what this is.

2218
01:48:55,479 --> 01:49:00,280
Speaker 2: Yes, speak to ship. It's a seventy eight of Wow

2219
01:49:01,520 --> 01:49:08,479
Speaker 2: the Hearts, Wow on chests with your racial chests, logan.

2220
01:49:08,680 --> 01:49:11,720
Speaker 3: His dad's group, Wow on chest chests.

2221
01:49:11,520 --> 01:49:14,200
Speaker 4: Records, don't cry.

2222
01:49:17,120 --> 01:49:17,200
Speaker 7: Up.

2223
01:49:17,800 --> 01:49:20,360
Speaker 3: Whatever you need to do it have your moment.

2224
01:49:21,920 --> 01:49:24,479
Speaker 2: That was That was That was an artifact that came

2225
01:49:24,520 --> 01:49:27,920
Speaker 2: from my mom and dad. You know Pops. Pops didn't

2226
01:49:27,920 --> 01:49:30,559
Speaker 2: give a funk about Duop, but apparently he likes your

2227
01:49:30,640 --> 01:49:33,720
Speaker 2: dad's grew man because you had their record Wow.

2228
01:49:34,439 --> 01:49:37,280
Speaker 3: And it's a seventy eight. Do you have something to

2229
01:49:37,280 --> 01:49:38,160
Speaker 3: play at seventy eight on?

2230
01:49:38,439 --> 01:49:38,840
Speaker 2: Like you.

2231
01:49:40,520 --> 01:49:41,360
Speaker 3: I had to frame this.

2232
01:49:42,040 --> 01:49:43,280
Speaker 2: That's what you do with that?

2233
01:49:43,400 --> 01:49:47,519
Speaker 3: Don't play that? I feel like it'll just like I'm

2234
01:49:48,000 --> 01:49:49,760
Speaker 3: so I'm beyond grateful for this man.

2235
01:49:49,840 --> 01:49:50,160
Speaker 2: This is.

2236
01:49:52,000 --> 01:49:54,960
Speaker 3: Wow. I've never seen not a speechless guy.

2237
01:49:55,080 --> 01:49:56,160
Speaker 2: Ed made a speechless guy.

2238
01:49:56,240 --> 01:50:00,960
Speaker 3: Well done, man, that's real now. And oh man, even

2239
01:50:01,040 --> 01:50:03,400
Speaker 3: Roy Calhoun's the girl around the corners on the beach.

2240
01:50:03,479 --> 01:50:05,040
Speaker 4: Oh shit, and what do you have?

2241
01:50:09,120 --> 01:50:11,320
Speaker 2: Well, wait a minute, look at the back of it,

2242
01:50:12,040 --> 01:50:14,519
Speaker 2: and I'll read you the letter, because there's a.

2243
01:50:16,800 --> 01:50:17,160
Speaker 6: What is it?

2244
01:50:17,280 --> 01:50:20,759
Speaker 2: So? The legend is told that when Prince was initially

2245
01:50:21,360 --> 01:50:24,000
Speaker 2: doing demos and shopping himself, he only made three demos

2246
01:50:24,040 --> 01:50:26,720
Speaker 2: to send out. One was to go to the one

2247
01:50:26,840 --> 01:50:28,640
Speaker 2: was to go to Warner Brothers. One was to go

2248
01:50:28,720 --> 01:50:31,160
Speaker 2: to Columbia. And the lore has been A and M,

2249
01:50:31,520 --> 01:50:35,840
Speaker 2: but it was Quincy Jones and and so I got

2250
01:50:35,920 --> 01:50:36,360
Speaker 2: this letter.

2251
01:50:37,200 --> 01:50:39,000
Speaker 3: I got this letter. You guys have to see this.

2252
01:50:39,400 --> 01:50:42,880
Speaker 2: I got this letter. This is like a year before

2253
01:50:42,960 --> 01:50:45,960
Speaker 2: COVID from Owen Husney. Owen was Prince's original managers and

2254
01:50:46,000 --> 01:50:49,080
Speaker 2: old friend. Ed. Sorry, this is forty years later in

2255
01:50:49,120 --> 01:50:51,679
Speaker 2: getting to you. You know how the mail is these days.

2256
01:50:52,320 --> 01:50:54,640
Speaker 2: This is the early eight track demo before me we

2257
01:50:54,720 --> 01:50:57,479
Speaker 2: made the original twenty four track demo that got him

2258
01:50:57,479 --> 01:50:59,960
Speaker 2: signed to Warner Brothers. Your name is in my hand

2259
01:51:00,040 --> 01:51:02,639
Speaker 2: and writing, and the rest is Prince you can still

2260
01:51:02,720 --> 01:51:04,960
Speaker 2: make an offer to sign him if you like what's

2261
01:51:05,000 --> 01:51:10,560
Speaker 2: on the tape. Hope all is well, Please keep the

2262
01:51:10,640 --> 01:51:12,719
Speaker 2: secure as this is worth quite a bit to collectors.

2263
01:51:13,600 --> 01:51:18,360
Speaker 3: Holy. Yeah, and there is someting wet and aces that

2264
01:51:19,840 --> 01:51:23,320
Speaker 3: you know, you know, I mean, it's up with this

2265
01:51:23,920 --> 01:51:27,360
Speaker 3: very stereo, very very very stereous.

2266
01:51:27,360 --> 01:51:29,040
Speaker 2: Prince Rogers Nelson Esquire.

2267
01:51:29,560 --> 01:51:32,760
Speaker 4: Right, this is why it's so important to know your

2268
01:51:32,840 --> 01:51:35,439
Speaker 4: history and the players. And we gotta keep saying your name,

2269
01:51:35,560 --> 01:51:38,519
Speaker 4: say your name, say your name, dude.

2270
01:51:39,320 --> 01:51:40,760
Speaker 2: Go to nice gift and for the rest of us,

2271
01:51:44,520 --> 01:51:45,639
Speaker 2: the first.

2272
01:51:45,439 --> 01:51:53,839
Speaker 4: Dominant, he wrote, Prince Nelson Esquire, Prince Nelson Esquire.

2273
01:51:53,920 --> 01:51:56,760
Speaker 3: That's hilarious, very stereo. He's a lawyer, man.

2274
01:51:56,800 --> 01:52:00,680
Speaker 8: That's so that's seventy How how is that? How you

2275
01:52:00,760 --> 01:52:02,719
Speaker 8: think that pression is well.

2276
01:52:02,640 --> 01:52:08,400
Speaker 3: Tear drops came out and fifth fifty eight? Wow? Bro, yeah,

2277
01:52:08,400 --> 01:52:09,920
Speaker 3: holy you guys show the camera that they got No,

2278
01:52:10,040 --> 01:52:12,760
Speaker 3: that's yeah, this this this came out in fifty eight,

2279
01:52:12,920 --> 01:52:16,240
Speaker 3: so wow. And that's an original press and that's like.

2280
01:52:16,320 --> 01:52:19,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you can say somebody played the ship out

2281
01:52:19,600 --> 01:52:26,799
Speaker 2: of it. A yeah, Wow, that's amazing.

2282
01:52:28,200 --> 01:52:30,080
Speaker 3: Wow, this is I.

2283
01:52:30,080 --> 01:52:32,880
Speaker 2: Brought a couple of why you signed?

2284
01:52:32,960 --> 01:52:33,639
Speaker 3: Did you sign Joe?

2285
01:52:34,240 --> 01:52:34,439
Speaker 2: Huh?

2286
01:52:34,680 --> 01:52:35,240
Speaker 3: You signed Joe?

2287
01:52:35,800 --> 01:52:37,639
Speaker 2: Yeah? Anyone? He was signed?

2288
01:52:38,320 --> 01:52:38,479
Speaker 11: Yeah?

2289
01:52:38,520 --> 01:52:39,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah he was.

2290
01:52:39,680 --> 01:52:40,439
Speaker 3: I had the first album.

2291
01:52:40,479 --> 01:52:42,760
Speaker 2: Guy called Dave McPherson signed him. Yeah.

2292
01:52:43,120 --> 01:52:47,360
Speaker 9: Also, we didn't discuss the Jason's Lyrics soundtrack, perhaps one

2293
01:52:47,360 --> 01:52:48,760
Speaker 9: of my favorite soundtracks time.

2294
01:52:49,439 --> 01:52:53,200
Speaker 3: It is that the way for whatever reason, you will,

2295
01:52:56,560 --> 01:52:59,680
Speaker 3: I love that. But that was so wow. This is

2296
01:52:59,760 --> 01:53:01,200
Speaker 3: your this is your.

2297
01:53:02,840 --> 01:53:04,320
Speaker 4: This is your Blackman unit.

2298
01:53:04,560 --> 01:53:07,439
Speaker 2: Wasn't we can talk about that?

2299
01:53:07,840 --> 01:53:10,960
Speaker 13: Actually, wait a minute, did you take a stab at

2300
01:53:11,120 --> 01:53:15,479
Speaker 13: di'angelo before you signed it? Yeah?

2301
01:53:15,960 --> 01:53:18,519
Speaker 2: Gary? And then Joscelyn. Jocelyn was working for me in

2302
01:53:18,520 --> 01:53:19,360
Speaker 2: there in those days too.

2303
01:53:20,040 --> 01:53:23,439
Speaker 3: Were you in the were you in the wait? Joscelyn

2304
01:53:23,760 --> 01:53:25,320
Speaker 3: was shopping at the time or no.

2305
01:53:25,520 --> 01:53:28,320
Speaker 2: Joscelyn had a publishing company with me. I'd made we

2306
01:53:28,400 --> 01:53:31,920
Speaker 2: made a deal called for Midnight Music and uh, when

2307
01:53:31,960 --> 01:53:35,200
Speaker 2: Gary took a em I Jocelyn signed the publishing deal

2308
01:53:36,360 --> 01:53:38,680
Speaker 2: had him and Gary. They weren't going to use you

2309
01:53:38,760 --> 01:53:42,280
Speaker 2: will know for his album and George Jackson and Doug

2310
01:53:42,360 --> 01:53:45,040
Speaker 2: mckenry were doing Jason's lyric and that brought me in.

2311
01:53:45,160 --> 01:53:48,599
Speaker 2: I was music supervising it with him and I'd heard

2312
01:53:49,439 --> 01:53:51,240
Speaker 2: you will know from Gary, and I said this would

2313
01:53:51,240 --> 01:53:53,320
Speaker 2: be perfect for the for the for the soundtrack, given

2314
01:53:53,600 --> 01:53:55,880
Speaker 2: the theme of the film and all that stuff and

2315
01:53:56,000 --> 01:53:57,960
Speaker 2: having you know, come from the sort of the Q world.

2316
01:53:58,280 --> 01:53:59,640
Speaker 2: I came up with the idea of let's do it

2317
01:53:59,680 --> 01:54:02,240
Speaker 2: as were the worldish kind of thing and called it

2318
01:54:02,400 --> 01:54:04,719
Speaker 2: black B and you because that's what they're calling prisons

2319
01:54:04,760 --> 01:54:07,639
Speaker 2: at that point, black Man University was, you know, because

2320
01:54:08,520 --> 01:54:11,760
Speaker 2: in jail prisons called BM you, and I said let's

2321
01:54:11,800 --> 01:54:14,040
Speaker 2: call it BMMU, and then I said black Men United,

2322
01:54:14,600 --> 01:54:15,400
Speaker 2: oh ship, and then we.

2323
01:54:15,439 --> 01:54:17,640
Speaker 3: Did so then but you also did the same for

2324
01:54:18,080 --> 01:54:21,320
Speaker 3: women for the Panther.

2325
01:54:22,640 --> 01:54:23,040
Speaker 2: Exactly.

2326
01:54:23,360 --> 01:54:24,880
Speaker 3: Well, I want to thank you for coming on the

2327
01:54:24,880 --> 01:54:26,280
Speaker 3: show man. Thank you.

2328
01:54:27,200 --> 01:54:29,160
Speaker 8: You've been by like some of my favorite records man,

2329
01:54:29,280 --> 01:54:31,439
Speaker 8: like Amy, like you know, just from Vanessa Williams and

2330
01:54:31,560 --> 01:54:33,680
Speaker 8: the Tony's you know, like if I saw your name

2331
01:54:33,720 --> 01:54:36,200
Speaker 8: on it, I was like, okay, it's yeah, it's.

2332
01:54:36,040 --> 01:54:36,960
Speaker 3: Basically not for real.

2333
01:54:37,000 --> 01:54:37,160
Speaker 2: Man.

2334
01:54:39,080 --> 01:54:42,040
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to The Quest Love Supreme hosted

2335
01:54:42,080 --> 01:54:48,680
Speaker 1: by Amra cous loved Thomas, Why You, Saint, Clair Coleman, Sugar,

2336
01:54:48,760 --> 01:54:54,480
Speaker 1: Steve mandell An, Unpaid, Bill Sherman, Executive producers are a

2337
01:54:54,600 --> 01:54:59,320
Speaker 1: Mere Quest, Love Thompson, Sean g and Brian Calton.

2338
01:55:00,400 --> 01:55:04,000
Speaker 3: Produced by Britney, benjer Cousin.

2339
01:55:03,800 --> 01:55:11,560
Speaker 1: Jake Payne, Wah Sinkley, edited by Alex Connolly, Produced by iHeart.

2340
01:55:11,320 --> 01:55:16,160
Speaker 3: By Noel Brown and Mike John's. Audio engineering by Graham

2341
01:55:16,240 --> 01:55:29,320
Speaker 3: Gibson and iHeart LA Studio. West Love Supreme is a

2342
01:55:29,360 --> 01:55:31,120
Speaker 3: production of iHeart Radio.

2343
01:55:34,600 --> 01:55:37,840
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

2344
01:55:38,080 --> 01:55:41,120
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.