Speaker 1: Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams, a production of
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and The Black Effect. What do you do when
Speaker 1: it seems like everybody else is getting their dreams and
Speaker 1: you're not well. I'm so excited about our next guest today,
Speaker 1: Heather Thompson Day. She's going to tell you right here
Speaker 1: on another episode of Checking In. Heather Thompson Day is
Speaker 1: an associate professor in the Department of Visual Arts, Communication
Speaker 1: and Design at Andrews University in Baryon Springs, Michigan.
Speaker 2: She runs an online.
Speaker 1: Community called I'm That Wife and hosts the Viral Jesus
Speaker 1: podcast and entered Denominational speaker. Heather is the author of
Speaker 1: books including Confession of a Christian Wife and How to
Speaker 1: Feed the Mediavore and her newest book, It's Not Your Turn.
Speaker 1: She's also a contributor for Religion News Service, Newsweek, and
Speaker 1: The Barner Group. And she previously taught at Colorado Christian University.
Speaker 1: And It's Not Your Turn it's her newest release which
Speaker 1: I had the pleasure of contributing just aligne for her book.
Speaker 1: And when you first hear the title It's Not Your Turn,
Speaker 1: it can sound like stop, it is not your turn versus.
Speaker 1: But what's on the cover of the book is a
Speaker 1: traffic signal that we all need because if we don't
Speaker 1: have that traffic signal, we would just crash.
Speaker 2: You know, some of us.
Speaker 1: Haven't learned what the right away means. So your book
Speaker 1: is not your turn what to do while you're waiting
Speaker 1: for your breakthrough.
Speaker 3: Heather, welcome to checking out in. I am so excited
Speaker 3: to be here. Thanks for having me listen.
Speaker 1: When about maybe was it two years ago, because that's
Speaker 1: kind of how long.
Speaker 2: It takes on it's your book.
Speaker 1: Me and you had some contact via social media. I
Speaker 1: can't can't remember if it was Twitter or Instagram. First,
Speaker 1: it might have been Twitter. I was following you. I
Speaker 1: think some of your posts have gone viral in a
Speaker 1: good way, and one of your most recent viral posts
Speaker 1: was about when your father walked you down the aisle.
Speaker 2: Yeah that's right at your wedding.
Speaker 1: But we got in contact because of your book and girl,
Speaker 1: maybe even a connection or two of love connection.
Speaker 2: We can talk about that, but I got cold feet.
Speaker 2: Let's talk about it now.
Speaker 3: Tell them Michelle, because so one of my things I
Speaker 3: am a professor, but also I'm a matchmaker. I love
Speaker 3: setting people up, and I was trying to set you
Speaker 3: up and you never followed through. Just let them hang,
Speaker 3: loft them unrid.
Speaker 1: Well, if they're listening to this, you can reach out
Speaker 1: to them, Heather, And I'll let you know in this
Speaker 1: episode Airs, I got cold feet. Okay, when you know
Speaker 1: at the time you think you're ready because you know
Speaker 1: you're like, okay, I'm ready, but I got cold feet
Speaker 1: and maybe I wasn't ready. And I want to encourage
Speaker 1: people that that's okay when you think you're ready, and
Speaker 1: you know, just follow that, follow follow your heart, follow wisdom,
Speaker 1: following discernment, like, eh, I'm gonna put a stop to it.
Speaker 1: I'm not ready, and I wouldn't want to waste anybody's time.
Speaker 1: You know, it's more than just letting them because I
Speaker 1: love a good ribbi and it's more than just enjoying
Speaker 1: a ribbi. It's not wasting someone's time, right, So I'm
Speaker 1: not in the business of that. At least I pray
Speaker 1: that I have not intentionally wasted anyone's time.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, ladies and gentlemen that are listening, Heather tried
Speaker 2: our best. Was it about two or three?
Speaker 3: And listen, I got three of the most eligible bachelors.
Speaker 3: I knew, just top notch cream of the crop, got
Speaker 3: them so excited that they would be hearing from you,
Speaker 3: and then nothing.
Speaker 2: But it's okay. You weren't ready. Did I not respond
Speaker 2: to either of them? I don't. I don't think you did.
Speaker 3: One was like.
Speaker 2: An owner of a team. It's fine, it's fine. He
Speaker 2: wasn't he's an owner of a team? Or was he
Speaker 2: one coaches?
Speaker 3: He had like a high level, like a vice president
Speaker 3: of a sports team. No. We I was scouring for
Speaker 3: the top notch people, put them together. I had like
Speaker 3: a bio sheet ready for.
Speaker 2: You, and then we passed. But it's okay. I'm sorry
Speaker 2: to read. Are they still eligible? You know? I'd have
Speaker 2: to follow back up on that now it's been over me.
Speaker 1: Be like Michelle might not Michelle wasn't ready for you,
Speaker 1: but she might know two or three folks that are.
Speaker 1: Can we Is that okay? Guys, if you're listening, we're
Speaker 1: gonna circle back. So oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: I think I was. I don't know if I was
Speaker 2: lonely or being sentimental or maybe in that place.
Speaker 1: Like I said, I thought I was ready for a
Speaker 1: relationship and it just did not work.
Speaker 2: Out that way and you're so busy. So you're so busy,
Speaker 2: that's perfect.
Speaker 1: And I'm not gonna even say it's busy. You do
Speaker 1: make time for what you're ready for and what you want.
Speaker 1: I just knew when I look back. I just I
Speaker 1: thought I was ready, but I wasn't, especially when you
Speaker 1: finally are are, when it's put in front of you.
Speaker 2: I could have easily maybe.
Speaker 1: Press respond or whatever the app was, Instagram sign think
Speaker 1: I do recall some DMS? Yes I do, okay, And
Speaker 1: I just was not ready. I just was like, I'm
Speaker 1: not ready, but I respect not.
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, okay.
Speaker 1: Well meaning, And it wasn't their turn, right, it wasn't
Speaker 1: their turn.
Speaker 2: It is not my turn. It wasn't our turn.
Speaker 1: So what to do while you're waiting for your breakthrough
Speaker 1: is an amazing, phenomenal book. I was able to get
Speaker 1: a copy beforehand, and I think then, I think an
Speaker 1: actual book that was sent that consumers actually get in
Speaker 1: their hands.
Speaker 2: So thank you, thank you, thank you. Was that your
Speaker 2: own experience?
Speaker 3: That was absolutely my experience. It was something I started
Speaker 3: saying to myself. I couldn't find a job after I
Speaker 3: felt like I had done everything right. Academically, and at
Speaker 3: the exact same time, one of my best friends named
Speaker 3: Jule calls me and she gets hired by NASA, and
Speaker 3: I was like, wow, I'm so happy for you, and
Speaker 3: I was happy for her. I was just also incredibly
Speaker 3: sad for myself. And that was probably the first time
Speaker 3: I felt like the Holy Spirit said, hoether, it's not
Speaker 3: your turn, but it's hers, and so you clap for her,
Speaker 3: show up for her.
Speaker 2: And that's what I did.
Speaker 3: So it became something I started repeating to myself when
Speaker 3: other people were getting the things I was praying for.
Speaker 3: I just started saying, it's not your turn, it's not
Speaker 3: your turn. It's not your turn, but it's her turn,
Speaker 3: and so you show up in you clap.
Speaker 1: So that is a real thing, whether or not you
Speaker 1: have a solid relationship with God. You know, you are
Speaker 1: a professor, you know you write for amazing popular magazines,
Speaker 1: but you still find yourself in that position, like this
Speaker 1: person has what I'm praying for, and it's a human thing.
Speaker 2: You know, now, as you told us.
Speaker 1: What you did from the human perspective, how did you
Speaker 1: handle it spiritually?
Speaker 2: M How am I.
Speaker 3: Still handling it spiritually? It's funny it's like I've not graduated.
Speaker 3: And I think I had thought when I wrote this book,
Speaker 3: I was going to have graduated. I would no longer
Speaker 3: struggle with insecurity, I would no longer feel jealous of
Speaker 3: somebody else. And it hasn't been the case. And I
Speaker 3: feel like what I am really good at now is
Speaker 3: just giving it to God.
Speaker 2: Immediately.
Speaker 3: I will go up in my room somebody has a
Speaker 3: New York Times bestseller, which is alway been my dream.
Speaker 3: I'll go up in my room and just say to God, like, hey,
Speaker 3: I this is hard for me.
Speaker 2: I'm struggling with this.
Speaker 3: And I am I've been freed though, because it's like
Speaker 3: I don't have to be perfect or have the perfect responses.
Speaker 3: I just have to be honest right and try to
Speaker 3: stay in the relationships. And so that's kind of been
Speaker 3: more of my focus now.
Speaker 1: That's so good being honest and like you said, taking
Speaker 1: it to God in prayer, yes, versus going to social
Speaker 1: media about it or acting away to the friend or
Speaker 1: or that peer that has that book on the New
Speaker 1: York Times bestseller list.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm with you on that.
Speaker 1: I was like, I just know my book is going
Speaker 1: to be a New York Times bestseller. We are doing
Speaker 1: the right things and it just didn't hit and you're
Speaker 1: soul right.
Speaker 2: I had to sit in that and sit in disappointment, yeap.
Speaker 1: And a part of me also had to sit in
Speaker 1: was a part of me feeling entitled.
Speaker 3: Let's talk about that, because I think that's where I've
Speaker 3: come to right now. But this has been a progression
Speaker 3: for me. I have now gotten to a point where
Speaker 3: I have to say, Heether, do you want anything God
Speaker 3: himself has not given you?
Speaker 2: I don't, right, But that has been a progression.
Speaker 3: I think I went most of my years feeling a
Speaker 3: little bit entitled because I felt like I'd done so
Speaker 3: much work.
Speaker 2: Yes, right. That's the thing when you actually do the word,
Speaker 2: do the work.
Speaker 1: You're prepared, everybody's given you accolas.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're like, I didn't.
Speaker 1: Get the results I wanted. But it's like, what if
Speaker 1: you got the actual result that God wanted you.
Speaker 2: To have exactly?
Speaker 3: And how do we defer to God being actual lord
Speaker 3: over our lives?
Speaker 2: That's the human experience, that's the journey.
Speaker 1: And how we define what success is or what impact is.
Speaker 1: Would I have felt that I made impact because it
Speaker 1: was on the bestseller list or am I excited? I
Speaker 1: did a podcast recording before you and not knowing the
Speaker 1: young lady has my book and she's referring to chapters
Speaker 1: in my book that have.
Speaker 2: Helped her on her journey.
Speaker 1: She's an expert in finance, and I'm never thinking that
Speaker 1: someone who seems to be an expert at what they're
Speaker 1: doing would be holding a book in my.
Speaker 2: Hand to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, that is impact, and it is impact I
Speaker 1: believe in the way God desires for it to have impact.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so essentially The entire book for me came
Speaker 3: down to this sentence. Who we are when we perceive
Speaker 3: it to not be our turn is actually more important
Speaker 3: than who we will be when it is.
Speaker 2: It's very easy.
Speaker 3: I was just speaking for university campus last week and
Speaker 3: I told them it is not hard to get up
Speaker 3: and speak in front of several thousand people.
Speaker 2: That's really easy easy.
Speaker 3: What's hard to do is show up when you don't
Speaker 3: know if anyone's coming.
Speaker 2: That's hard. That's integrity. And I really think we need
Speaker 2: a generation.
Speaker 3: Of people who are going to hit the podcast button
Speaker 3: on when I don't know if anyone's gonna listen. That's integrity.
Speaker 3: I'm in this because of the mission, not because of
Speaker 3: the reward. And who we are when it's on our
Speaker 3: turn is more important than who we will be when
Speaker 3: it is.
Speaker 1: And not only that, like you said, doing the event
Speaker 1: if you feel like anyone will come. Also, what about
Speaker 1: posting that post when you feel like, okay, but no
Speaker 1: one's gonna see it?
Speaker 2: Am I gonna have one?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: But I'm telling you your people will see it in
Speaker 1: the right people when it's time.
Speaker 2: Like you said, when is your when it's your turn?
Speaker 1: A lot of people have gone viral out of the
Speaker 1: blue based out of the obedience of what they felt
Speaker 1: like they were supposed to do.
Speaker 2: Tabitha Brown is such a great example, yes of.
Speaker 1: Her saying at that time, I've got a cell phone,
Speaker 1: I feel obedient, feel I feel like I'm let to
Speaker 1: post things about cooking and inspirational moments and this girl
Speaker 1: is on fire, you know, just based off of that.
Speaker 1: So thank you for that while you wait, Like you said,
Speaker 1: when it's not your turn yet, do you feel like
Speaker 1: that's who you really are?
Speaker 3: I think that's when we decide who we are, okay,
Speaker 3: is when it's not our turn?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: When does David become King? David is anointed king.
Speaker 3: For years before it's ever in his circumstances, right, So
Speaker 3: when does David actually feel like king?
Speaker 2: He has to.
Speaker 3: Believe the vision that's been spoken over his life long
Speaker 3: before anybody else is even able to confirm it.
Speaker 1: So when you're saying he was anointed king long before
Speaker 1: he felt was that the early days of imposter syndrome?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: And how do we keep showing up in those spaces
Speaker 3: when nobody's cheering for you when nobody the truth is.
Speaker 2: Nobody would even care if you didn't.
Speaker 3: How do we keep showing up when nobody else would
Speaker 3: even notice? And I had to come to a point
Speaker 3: where I realized, this is actually when it matters. My
Speaker 3: life doesn't start. It's a metaphorical there. Once I get there,
Speaker 3: that's when my life start.
Speaker 2: No, my life starts.
Speaker 3: Martin Luther King Junior has this really fantastic quote. He
Speaker 3: was speaking to a group of high school seniors. This is,
Speaker 3: I really think like a life transforming quote. And essentially
Speaker 3: what he says is if all you ever do when
Speaker 3: you leave here is become a street sweeper, then you
Speaker 3: sweep those streets with so much passion and so much
Speaker 3: intention and so much charisma that all of heaven has
Speaker 3: to stop and say, oh my God, look at the
Speaker 3: street sweeper.
Speaker 2: So good. I want to live my life like that.
Speaker 2: So good, so good, showing up to my own life.
Speaker 1: When you said that your friend, you know, got this job,
Speaker 1: and was that NASA? Is it something that she posted
Speaker 1: on social media or did you just find doubt?
Speaker 2: Was it a text?
Speaker 3: No, she called me, she said, you're not going to
Speaker 3: believe this. And at the exact same time, so this
Speaker 3: is about this is almost ten years ago. At the
Speaker 3: same time, I am applying for jobs left and right.
Speaker 3: I've been in school. I graduated high school in two
Speaker 3: thousand and five. I never took a summer off. I
Speaker 3: stayed all the way through my PhD. And I thought,
Speaker 3: surely I'm going to get a job right away, and
Speaker 3: I didn't. And I applied and I applied and I
Speaker 3: applied it and nothing was opening for me. I'm adjuncting
Speaker 3: at like five different schools, trying to just make enough
Speaker 3: money to pay for diapers. And at the exact same time,
Speaker 3: my friend, who did not do all the right things right,
Speaker 3: just totally did her own path, gets hired at NASA.
Speaker 3: And she calls me, she's like, I'm not going to
Speaker 3: believe it, and I'm like, oh my god, what She's like,
Speaker 3: I just got hired at NASA, and I'm like, wow.
Speaker 2: This is great.
Speaker 3: And I had to like, I just think it's okay
Speaker 3: for both things to be true. It's okay that this
Speaker 3: is really hard for me and also that I'm actually
Speaker 3: genuinely happy for you because I always was right, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: and allowing myself to just say that out loud, this
Speaker 3: is a botha and situation. I am sad for me,
Speaker 3: but I'm also really happy for you. But in this moment,
Speaker 3: how they do not let your sadness for you obstruct
Speaker 3: what you could say to her? And so I told her,
Speaker 3: I'm so happy for you. We're going to clap for you,
Speaker 3: We're going to go to dinner. This is amazing because
Speaker 3: it was right. And so when I had to free
Speaker 3: myself of feeling like a bad person for also being sad,
Speaker 3: like I had to go through that walk and I'm
Speaker 3: still going through that walk. I'm still on that journey.
Speaker 2: Okay. Do you think social media makes this feeling worse, Michelle?
Speaker 2: I know it makes it worse.
Speaker 3: We know statistics. I teach social media. This absolutely has
Speaker 3: been exasperated. It used to be that we compare ourselves
Speaker 3: like to our neighbors. Well, now I compare myself to
Speaker 3: several thousand people at a time, right, my closest quotations, friends,
Speaker 3: and often it's people that honestly have like a literally
Speaker 3: totally different life experience than me, but they're showing up
Speaker 3: on my feed and feeling behind on a race that
Speaker 3: I was never in, right, I was never in that race.
Speaker 3: And so yeah, then we look at our own lives,
Speaker 3: we see everybody else's highlights, and it's.
Speaker 2: Hard to feel good about where you are.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, absolutely the comparison we compare ourselves to absolute total strangers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember about a year or two ago, Tasha Cobbs.
Speaker 1: Leonard posted something I think she had gotten a plaque
Speaker 1: or something, and she said she almost didn't post it
Speaker 1: because of that reason. She didn't want anybody to feel
Speaker 1: like she was showing off and you know, gloating her success.
Speaker 1: And you know, but then at the same time, it's like,
Speaker 1: I'm so excited about an accomplishment that I have, which
Speaker 1: is the total opposite of like you said, you were
Speaker 1: happy for the person, but you weren't happy. But then
Speaker 1: the other side of things are people actually won't post
Speaker 1: the highlights as well because of how it might make
Speaker 1: people feel. Then you have people who will post their
Speaker 1: highlights to literally make people jealous. I want my co
Speaker 1: worker to know I got the promotion and they did
Speaker 1: it right, just to be petty and I'm sorry. I
Speaker 1: feel like you're gonna reap that if that's the attitude
Speaker 1: in which you post something. But how do you feel
Speaker 1: now about posting like your highlights?
Speaker 2: That's a good question.
Speaker 3: And you know this because it's it's not just me, right,
Speaker 3: So I have an agent that's saying you need to
Speaker 3: make sure that people understand this, and I have other
Speaker 3: people that are telling me make sure that. So that's
Speaker 3: a really really good question, and they're at some point
Speaker 3: social media. As much as it's a reflection of us,
Speaker 3: it also becomes a reflection of other people's work too, right,
Speaker 3: that are helping me.
Speaker 2: In whatever this brand is.
Speaker 3: I hate to use that word, but that we're trying
Speaker 3: to put out there that are that I mean. So
Speaker 3: here's here's a real conversation that I just had with
Speaker 3: my agent. You should be putting doctor Heather Thompson day
Speaker 3: in your in your actual name so that people know.
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, what what?
Speaker 2: Wait a minute, Wait a.
Speaker 1: Minute, doctor Heather Thompson Day.
Speaker 2: So you see, this is a thing.
Speaker 3: So this is the thing I don't I don't do it,
Speaker 3: I don't put it, and so it's I have a
Speaker 3: lot of different feelings about that because I don't make
Speaker 3: my students refer to me as that I.
Speaker 1: Hate a minute, I gotta do a whole intro again,
Speaker 1: doctor Heather Thompson Day. I promise you don't an associate
Speaker 1: professor in the Department of Visual.
Speaker 2: Arts doctor now.
Speaker 3: So this is a thing, right, So people say you
Speaker 3: have to be very careful because you want people to
Speaker 3: see you in a certain way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hard sociality, is it because you want them
Speaker 1: to be eye level with you or to receive you
Speaker 1: from an organic down or earth.
Speaker 3: I think for me it's because I'm still in the
Speaker 3: classroom and so because I'm with real students.
Speaker 2: Every single day.
Speaker 3: I have found in my own experience with this generation,
Speaker 3: they do better or a student is more likely to
Speaker 3: when it's just Heather, they might be too afraid to
Speaker 3: ever stay after if it's doctor Heather Tomp's day. So
Speaker 3: I've just kind of allowed myself to be myself without
Speaker 3: necessarily titles although conversations I have with other people, or
Speaker 3: should we.
Speaker 2: Keep doing that? Should we do this differently? Okay? All right?
Speaker 2: Is it in your bio your Instagram bio line? Yes,
Speaker 2: I think it might be. I know, it says professor.
Speaker 3: You know, there's only so many characters that allows you
Speaker 3: to have in those little bios.
Speaker 2: And I know, and we have some.
Speaker 1: I know my first name, middle name, and last name
Speaker 1: is way too low.
Speaker 2: Let me make sure headther' Thompson day. Nope, it is not.
Speaker 2: I don't have it in there. See yeah, Nope, it's not.
Speaker 2: It just says Heather Thompson Day. You know. And listen,
Speaker 2: I just did a post about.
Speaker 1: My uncle for a Black History Month and I felt
Speaker 1: like I call him uncle Charles, but in certain settings
Speaker 1: I must call him doctor Washington, you know, to let
Speaker 1: him know that I honor, you know, around because I
Speaker 1: don't want somebody just walking up to him saying, hey
Speaker 1: Chuck because they heard me call him uncle Charles. It's like, no,
Speaker 1: he is a medical doctor. It too come years to
Speaker 1: get these letters behind his name, so absolutely incredible. What
Speaker 1: to do while you're waiting? What do we tell somebody
Speaker 1: who feels like they're doing everything right. They're praying, they're
Speaker 1: honoring their parents, they're paying.
Speaker 3: Their bills before the do date. Yeah, what I've come
Speaker 3: to is, I just started. I just think you're anointing
Speaker 3: begins the day you believe you have one.
Speaker 2: And so I just.
Speaker 3: I'm anointed and it doesn't matter if anybody else sees it.
Speaker 3: I'm just going to show up and believe that for myself.
Speaker 3: And so what happened for me was I can remember
Speaker 3: the day. It was a February about four years ago.
Speaker 3: I had this revelation for myself where I said, you're
Speaker 3: annointing me begins the day you believe you have one.
Speaker 3: And I was going to go teach a class after
Speaker 3: lunch and all the students it was after lunch, the
Speaker 3: students heads around their desks. There was only like five
Speaker 3: kids in the class. And typically I probably would have
Speaker 3: went into an environment like that and read the room
Speaker 3: said okay, let me just try to get this lecture
Speaker 3: done and get nobody wants to be here, and I
Speaker 3: just decided, no, I'm anointed to be and I'll never
Speaker 3: forget it. At the that class, a girl came to
Speaker 3: my office and she said, you said something. I don't
Speaker 3: remember what it was, but she says, you said something
Speaker 3: in your lecture that I had been praying on for
Speaker 3: the last six months.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. And I just.
Speaker 3: Realized, had I not shown up, had I not believed
Speaker 3: that there was a reason for me to be there,
Speaker 3: I probably wouldn't have answered the prayer that she.
Speaker 2: Had and praying.
Speaker 3: And so then I realized, wait a second, how many
Speaker 3: people am I going through life? And because I'm not
Speaker 3: showing up to my own life, I'm missing opportunities to
Speaker 3: impact people in the way that God has actually called
Speaker 3: me to impact them, right, And so once I realized
Speaker 3: that I couldn't, I couldn't go back. I couldn't go
Speaker 3: back to living my life the way I used to
Speaker 3: live it because I've seen now the ramifications of what
Speaker 3: it looks like to treat every single person I'm with
Speaker 3: as if it's the most important thing I'm ever going
Speaker 3: to do.
Speaker 2: Okay, it changes things, so good, so good, so good?
Speaker 1: Do you mind if I fast forward as well to
Speaker 1: relationship and inter racial dating?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 1: In the criticism or did you find yourself having criticism?
Speaker 1: And if you did, what was your process and didn't
Speaker 1: have anything to also do with insecurity.
Speaker 2: So I'm biracial.
Speaker 3: My mom is white, my dad is black, So in
Speaker 3: my home like my sister's husband's Asian, my brother's wife
Speaker 3: was Hispanic. Like my family dynamic is very multiracial, multi cultural,
Speaker 3: So I never it just didn't come up necessarily in
Speaker 3: my mind about dating app well, almost anybody would be
Speaker 3: outside of my race, just because I'm already biracial, but
Speaker 3: dating outside of my race and my husband I've known
Speaker 3: since I was in sixth grade, so we have definitely
Speaker 3: had people say things or make comments. But it's in
Speaker 3: my family culture that I'm in, and then I also
Speaker 3: teach for the most diverse university in the nation.
Speaker 2: I'm just in a very.
Speaker 3: Multi racial environment that it has been very protective I
Speaker 3: think in a lot of ways of our relationship, me
Speaker 3: and my husband.
Speaker 1: Anyway, Okay, okay, I know the the referring to a
Speaker 1: post that you posted about your father and you know
Speaker 1: walking down that aisle and what it was for you.
Speaker 1: I know for me, I grew up, of course, in
Speaker 1: an all black household, went to a private school and
Speaker 1: then public school, and so I was surrounded by multiculture.
Speaker 1: I was also surrounded by relatives who had also maybe
Speaker 1: consider okay, you dated outside your race, and the negativity
Speaker 1: that can come with that. My own dealing my someone
Speaker 1: I was engaged to white man, and some of the blowback,
Speaker 1: you know that I felt, I got it now. Majority
Speaker 1: was love who you love, Go girl, Let God use you,
Speaker 1: Let them be glorified, you know what I mean. But
Speaker 1: sometimes you listen to those naysayers a little louder, you know,
Speaker 1: because I found myself wanting to please every.
Speaker 2: And even guilty of letting.
Speaker 1: The entire world into that relationship, which was a huge mistake,
Speaker 1: instead of maybe stewarting that and protecting that. And so
Speaker 1: I just wanted to ask you, you know, maybe to
Speaker 1: advice for people who might date someone or goal on
Speaker 1: a career path that seems to be outside of what
Speaker 1: everybody else is comfortable with you doing.
Speaker 3: I mean, I do want to say this about dating
Speaker 3: outside of your race. I do think it's really important
Speaker 3: that you're with somebody who celebrates who you are and
Speaker 3: is not asking you to change or is not embarrassed
Speaker 3: the way you may do things. Like I will say
Speaker 3: in my relationship that has absolutely been very key probably
Speaker 3: is that my husband is incredibly supportive of not just me,
Speaker 3: but my family background and our culture and the way
Speaker 3: we do things that is different than the way he
Speaker 3: grew up doing them.
Speaker 2: So I think that's important for people.
Speaker 3: How do we do things when we don't have everybody's
Speaker 3: blessing over it. That's tough, especially for Christians, right because
Speaker 3: we look for the confirmation of so many people to
Speaker 3: feel like, Okay, now I'm fully in God's will. And
Speaker 3: I think at the end of the day, you have
Speaker 3: to know the voice of God. You have to know
Speaker 3: what that sounds like for you. Is it God calling
Speaker 3: me to this thing? Because I can think of very
Speaker 3: rarely do I do things without my parents' blessings. I
Speaker 3: really respect my parents. They've proven themselves in my life
Speaker 3: to be people who fully love me and support me.
Speaker 3: But there's been a couple times that they disagreed with
Speaker 3: a job I was going to take or a city
Speaker 3: I was going to move to. And at the end
Speaker 3: of the day, I had to put it before the
Speaker 3: Lord and say, you raised me to be somebody that
Speaker 3: listens to God above all else, and God is calling
Speaker 3: me here. And if you trust the raising that you
Speaker 3: did of me, and you trust my character I'm asking
Speaker 3: for your blessing none as I go, and then I
Speaker 3: have to go right. So I think we have to
Speaker 3: weigh that out. Is this something that one or two
Speaker 3: people are saying no?
Speaker 2: Too?
Speaker 3: Is everybody saying no that you trust with counsel I'm
Speaker 3: really big on mentorship and council but are you. I
Speaker 3: have people that I will put things out to that
Speaker 3: I trust as much as almost I trust myself, and
Speaker 3: then I take that feedback in absolutely.
Speaker 1: Now I don't agree with someone just talking to some
Speaker 1: of everybody because maybe you're scared of.
Speaker 2: A couple things.
Speaker 1: I don't agree with you just talking to people who
Speaker 1: you feel are going to tell you what you want
Speaker 1: to hear. I also don't agree with you just talking
Speaker 1: to everybody to vent and get it out, because then
Speaker 1: that's where confusion comes, because now you've got twenty perspectives
Speaker 1: when there should only be maybe three trusted counselors or people.
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm going through something.
Speaker 1: Right now, that my therapist my like person who's gonna
Speaker 1: give me bible that perspective, right, and like a best
Speaker 1: friend who'll tell me the truth period. Yeah, But other
Speaker 1: than that, because I can't vent to my therapist, like
Speaker 1: I will my best friend just to you know, although
Speaker 1: you have to be honest with your therapists chaunselor, you know,
Speaker 1: And the same with my spiritual advisor. I feel like
Speaker 1: there are things that I even know to do in
Speaker 1: the word. There are things I know to do through prayer.
Speaker 1: But sometimes when you're just being human, sometimes my pastor
Speaker 1: will be like, now I'm gonna talk to you as
Speaker 1: your pastor, you know, And I feel like you need that,
Speaker 1: And I hope everybody listening to us has that.
Speaker 2: Be careful that you're not just telling stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if it involves another person, honor that other
Speaker 1: person and kind of cover them and not just blast
Speaker 1: what you might be going through inter personally.
Speaker 2: With about your coworker, about your boyfriend, about your husband,
Speaker 2: about your wife, kind of cover you know, you know,
Speaker 2: be be cool about that.
Speaker 1: But you know, I can tell when a person has
Speaker 1: talked to eighty people already before they got to me.
Speaker 3: And I think it's important that people that we're asking
Speaker 3: people who are wise right and have the fruit of
Speaker 3: that wisdom in their own life, because sometimes we're asking
Speaker 3: people that you don't you don't want advice from them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, great, Like you, you might talk to a pastor
Speaker 1: spiritual adviser.
Speaker 2: That don't mean they have fruit in that air.
Speaker 1: But I promise you that there are people that they've
Speaker 1: got some fruit for.
Speaker 2: Sure in this area.
Speaker 1: And so I just think that's so important, and I
Speaker 1: think that's a good suggestion of what a person should
Speaker 1: do while they're waiting. Yes, but they're breakthrough, Yeah, seek counsel,
Speaker 1: what you're what you do while you wait is so
Speaker 1: important while you.
Speaker 3: Wait, yes, And I just I want essentially, I just
Speaker 3: want people to understand it's always your turn. It's always
Speaker 3: your turn to keep living your own life. It's always
Speaker 3: your turn to keep showing up to your own life.
Speaker 3: It's always your turn to keep believing something for yourself, right,
Speaker 3: Like you have to claim that your anointing begins the
Speaker 3: day you believe you have one.
Speaker 2: You sure you're not a lack of songwriter.
Speaker 1: On the lift, you almost as they say, you got bars,
Speaker 1: You've dropped a culp, shit, you've dropped a couple. And
Speaker 1: so I am just so appreciative of your encouragement and
Speaker 1: of your time today.
Speaker 2: What is brewing next? Yeah?
Speaker 3: So yeah, my latest book is It's not your turn.
Speaker 3: And then I have I'll see you tomorrow, which is
Speaker 3: all about relationship.
Speaker 2: So I think we have a lot.
Speaker 3: Of really needed advice about boundaries, which is all important,
Speaker 3: and how to leave. But I'm really concerned that people
Speaker 3: don't know how to stay, and so I wrote a
Speaker 3: book about how do we stay? How do we Essentially,
Speaker 3: we don't get to have relationships that span decades unless
Speaker 3: we learn how to have conversations about what it looks
Speaker 3: like to say I'll see you tomorrow. I'm pissed, i
Speaker 3: am angry, i am discouraged by what just happened, but
Speaker 3: I'm committed to the idea of a relationship with you
Speaker 3: because I value you as a human being. I'll see
Speaker 3: you tomorrow, so I'm really excited about that.
Speaker 1: Wait wait, wait, wait wait, you saw my eyes get big?
Speaker 1: Wait wait wait wait, I'll see you tomorrow. So there
Speaker 1: are books that help people to uncouple in a very
Speaker 1: positive way.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, which is important.
Speaker 1: Which is important. And then now you're writing a book.
Speaker 1: I'm mad at you, but I'll see you tomorrow. We're
Speaker 1: going to watch that's good. There's a meme that says,
Speaker 1: I don't care how mad you are, would be you
Speaker 1: better come and pretzel with me you better, you like
Speaker 1: you know. But I think that's good because in the
Speaker 1: heat of the moment, we might make her decisions.
Speaker 2: Listens to this.
Speaker 1: When we have a temporary feeling, we might say it's over,
Speaker 1: I'm done.
Speaker 3: Here's the real I've been the bad friend, I've been
Speaker 3: the jealous friend, I've been the bitter friend. And I'm
Speaker 3: so grateful for people who forgave me. I'm so grateful
Speaker 3: for people who recognize that it wasn't a pattern, it
Speaker 3: was an incident. I think there's a difference between patterns
Speaker 3: and incidents. And at a time when we're saying everybody's toxic,
Speaker 3: we're forgetting that words mean things. That toxic means something.
Speaker 3: It means every time I drink from this well, I'm
Speaker 3: being poisoned. Every time I'm with you, it's hurting me.
Speaker 3: That's called the pattern. We should absolutely break relational patterns,
Speaker 3: but all people, because of the nature of being a
Speaker 3: human being, are going to have incidents. You're going to
Speaker 3: do something that pisses somebody else off, and so then
Speaker 3: we have to say, was this a pattern or is
Speaker 3: this a singular incident.
Speaker 1: Have you seen a person break a pattern and have
Speaker 1: a successful relationship with the same person.
Speaker 3: I think pattern breaking, well, I'm a Christian, obviously, I
Speaker 3: think pattern breaking can be done. But I think the
Speaker 3: person has to be willing to do that work. You
Speaker 3: can't control somebody else, right, Is that person willing to
Speaker 3: do the work that's required. Yep, And and so that
Speaker 3: things have to be an individual basis for sure, But
Speaker 3: on average, I think it's a really good advice to take.
Speaker 3: If you see a pattern, it's not your job to
Speaker 3: try to fix somebody.
Speaker 2: So good, Okay, yeah, better listen. I'll see you tomorrow.
Speaker 2: That's right, girl, I see you tomorrow. I'm so excited.
Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us today. Thank you so
Speaker 2: much for having me. We'll see soon.
Speaker 1: Checking In with Michelle Williams is a production of iHeartRadio
Speaker 1: and The Black Effect. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit
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