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Speaker 1: Rivals as a production of I Heart Radio. Hello everyone,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to Rivals, the show about music beefs and

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Speaker 1: feuds and long simmering resentments between musicians. I'm Steve and

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Speaker 1: I'm Jordan. And today we're gonna settle the age old

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Speaker 1: question who's the better guitarist, Jimi Hendrix or Eric Clapton.

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Speaker 1: Actually we're not gonna answer that at all. Instead, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna look at the much deeper and more important question,

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Speaker 1: is it better to burn out or fade away? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: That really is the issue here. I mean, it's not

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Speaker 1: so much about the people actually feuding. Unlike a lot

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Speaker 1: of our episodes, the principles here actually got along and

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Speaker 1: even revered each other. It's more that they represent opposing ideas.

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Speaker 1: I wrote about this in my book Your Favorite Band

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Speaker 1: is Killing Me, And I really believe that you won't

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Speaker 1: find a better example of one musician in a way

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Speaker 1: benefiting from burning out in another musician in some ways

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Speaker 1: being punished because he was able to fade away. You know,

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Speaker 1: I recently invoked the Dark Knight in our David Crosby episode,

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Speaker 1: and I might have to do it again. You know,

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Speaker 1: you either died the hero or live long enough to

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Speaker 1: become the villain. That's the story of Jimi Hendrix and

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Speaker 1: Eric clapped into me. I can't wait to dive in.

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Speaker 1: Let's get into this mess. You know. For all the

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Speaker 1: flak that clapping gets in later years for playing like boring,

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Speaker 1: workman like blues, he actually had a really complicated family

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Speaker 1: upbringing that contributed to his really intense inner pain as

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Speaker 1: a boy. He grew up believing that his mother was

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Speaker 1: actually his elder sister, and he was raised by his grandparents,

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Speaker 1: and his mother was a teenager who had an affair

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Speaker 1: with a Canadian soldier who was just sort of passing through.

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Speaker 1: And when Eric learned the truth as an adolescent, it

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Speaker 1: really traumatized him, and he withdrew into his music and

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Speaker 1: his guitar, and he started listening to old blues guys

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Speaker 1: like Elmore James and Big Bill Bruns and Robert Johnson,

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Speaker 1: and then he went over towards the Chicago blues players

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Speaker 1: like Muddy Waters and Buddy Guy and t bone Walker,

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Speaker 1: guys like that and uh. He started playing in a

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Speaker 1: local band side of London called the Roosters before joining

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Speaker 1: the Yardbirds, who were London's one of their best blues

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Speaker 1: bands up there with Alexa's Corner, and they were famous

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Speaker 1: for sort of banging out these really fast and furious

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Speaker 1: versions of Chuck Berry songs and Slim Harpow songs, and

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Speaker 1: Clapton would later say this was kind of his apprentice

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Speaker 1: period and the band uh. They backed Sonny Boy Williamson

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Speaker 1: for a while. They did an album together which is

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Speaker 1: actually pretty good and just to sort of let you know,

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Speaker 1: like Clapton's where his head was at at this period.

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Speaker 1: He would later say that he didn't think he didn't

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Speaker 1: really respect Sunny Boy for a while. He didn't think

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Speaker 1: he was one of the like the good blues guys.

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Speaker 1: So when he first met him, he was kind of

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Speaker 1: stuck up around him, and then Sunny Boy very very

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Speaker 1: quickly put him in his place. But then the band

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Speaker 1: is the sixties progressed and sort of the Mersey beat

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Speaker 1: thing got bigger in London. Um the Yardbirds progressed more

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Speaker 1: towards like the pop sound. In six they released a

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Speaker 1: single called fore Your Love, which is it's pretty innovative,

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Speaker 1: way ahead of its time sounding record. It almost sounds

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Speaker 1: like on like Indians roans through like heavily distorted guitar.

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Speaker 1: It's a cool record, but Clapton absolutely loath that. He

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Speaker 1: thought this was like pop crap, so he quit the band.

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Speaker 1: He said, you know, the whole thing had gotten so

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Speaker 1: business like with finances and promotion, and we became machines

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Speaker 1: instead of human being. So he left, left the hit group.

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Speaker 1: It's funny with Clapton because he does have this reputation now,

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Speaker 1: like you said, as being this very middle of the

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Speaker 1: road classic rocker, and you know, we're gonna get into

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Speaker 1: this in our episode. I don't think there's a member

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Speaker 1: of that generation at sixties baby boomer rock generation whose

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Speaker 1: reputation has suffered more over the years. And Eric Clapton,

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Speaker 1: like his stock was sky high in the sixties and

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Speaker 1: I feel like it's gone down steadily since then. It

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Speaker 1: went up again a little bit in the nineties when

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Speaker 1: he had the Unplugged thing and he had like the

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Speaker 1: Jason Priestly haircut, and you know, he was having hits

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Speaker 1: at the time, and the beard certainly was never cool

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Speaker 1: though during that period. And but like when you look

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Speaker 1: at his early years, he really was like one of

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Speaker 1: the original like indie hipsters, you know, like he left

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Speaker 1: the Yardbirds because they were too commercial and of course,

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Speaker 1: the Yardbirds go on to become I think, like a

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Speaker 1: really seminal British rock band. Like they're not as successful

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Speaker 1: as like the Beatles are the Stones, but like you

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Speaker 1: don't have led Zeppelin without the Yardbirds, you don't have

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Speaker 1: like a lot of hard rock bands, I think without

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Speaker 1: them operating off the template that the Yardbirds designed, but

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Speaker 1: like clapped in at least initially it was like I

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Speaker 1: didn't want any part of that. So he started playing

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Speaker 1: with this guy named John Mayo, who was a British

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Speaker 1: blues guy, the epitome of the you know, purest blues.

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Speaker 1: We're only going to you know, focus on the real

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Speaker 1: American stuff. We're not going to try to have pop hits.

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Speaker 1: And this is where air Clapton really starts to make

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Speaker 1: his name as like a guitar hero. He ends up

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Speaker 1: playing on the Blues Breakers record that comes Down sixty

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Speaker 1: five I guess known as the Beano record because he's

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Speaker 1: is he holding like a comic called Beano on the

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Speaker 1: cover of the album. Oh yeah, he can't be bothered

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Speaker 1: to look up at the photographer. He's just reading his

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Speaker 1: comic book. Way too cool to look up. And uh,

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Speaker 1: the album is one of the great blue rock records

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Speaker 1: to come out of Britain in the sixties, but like

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Speaker 1: they're really known the Blues Breakers as a great live band,

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Speaker 1: and that is where Eric Clapton gets this reputation where

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Speaker 1: people start spray painting clapped in his God on the

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Speaker 1: walls of London because they just think this dude is

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Speaker 1: so cool, and that really leads to him becoming a superstar,

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Speaker 1: which in a way is what he didn't want in

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Speaker 1: The Yardbirds. But I guess maybe in the sense he

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Speaker 1: felt like he was becoming famous for the right reasons

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Speaker 1: with John may All. At any rate, he ends up

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Speaker 1: forming one of the first, I guess maybe the first

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Speaker 1: supergroup in rock, which is Cream. It's him Jack Bruce

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Speaker 1: Ginger Baker. And it's funny to me because like he

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Speaker 1: didn't want to play the pop trip in The Yardbirds,

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Speaker 1: but in Cream there is that blues base, but like

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Speaker 1: they didn't play straight blues. I mean they took it

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Speaker 1: and exploded it out and it became this I guess

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Speaker 1: you could say, self indulgent display of like instrumental virtuosity,

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Speaker 1: even though I really I really like Cream, And you know,

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Speaker 1: when I think about clapping in the sixties. What jumps

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Speaker 1: out to me is that he was always in bands

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Speaker 1: and he was always offset with like equally strong personalities.

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Speaker 1: And that was true certainly in the Yardbirds, it was

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Speaker 1: true with John Mayle. It's the case in Cream. And

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Speaker 1: then after he leaves Cream, of course he does blind

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Speaker 1: faith with Steve Winwood. And I just wonder, like, ultimately,

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Speaker 1: is there clapping just like a great side man, you know,

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Speaker 1: like because I feel like whenever he has to be

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Speaker 1: the focal point, he just retreats and his music gets

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Speaker 1: so much more boring. And it's like, if you can

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Speaker 1: be in a band, he can just play the guitar,

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Speaker 1: you can you know, be a hot shot. And maybe

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Speaker 1: that's more suited to him. And I just wonder in

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Speaker 1: his own mind, even if he thinks of himself that way,

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Speaker 1: like this guy once called a record journeyman for crying

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Speaker 1: out loud. I mean, I feel like that's his mentality

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Speaker 1: in some way. It's but you mentioned them earlier as

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Speaker 1: being sort of one of the first indie rock guys.

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Speaker 1: For just the way that he's sort of shunned commercial ventures,

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Speaker 1: it's weird. Maybe it's just it's just a testament to

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Speaker 1: how much his reputation has suffered that I don't and

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Speaker 1: even see him as this like paragon of like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I've got integrity, my musical integrity. I think of him

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Speaker 1: now of all the bands that he's left, is just

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Speaker 1: thinking he was just a pain in the ass like

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Speaker 1: a prima donna back then. I feel like that's kind

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Speaker 1: of the quotes that you get from like the John

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Speaker 1: Mayles when he left Bruise Breakers, and when when you

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Speaker 1: talk to guys from the Yardbirds and stuff, it makes

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Speaker 1: it makes him seem like just a big prima too,

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Speaker 1: which is really interesting. Yeah, I the pivot from wanting

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Speaker 1: to leave the Yardbirds to pursue like hardcore blues to

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Speaker 1: then doing Cream and doing stuff like you know, the

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Speaker 1: track wrapping paper and even like singles like I Feel Free,

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Speaker 1: it's so in the pop realm. I never really was

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Speaker 1: able to figure out, like how we decided, Okay, now

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Speaker 1: it's time to move that way, because that just seems

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Speaker 1: way more poppy than anything yards Birds were doing in

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Speaker 1: nineteen five. I never really figured out what the change was. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I just seemed like in Cream, you know, he could

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Speaker 1: just be the total hot shot guitar player. And again

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Speaker 1: I think It has something to do with the fact too,

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Speaker 1: that he was with these two other guys who had

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Speaker 1: as big as egos as he did, so he could

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Speaker 1: be a star. But again I feel like in some way,

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Speaker 1: as much as he could be a prima donna, I'm

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Speaker 1: sure that his mentality is that of a sideman. I

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Speaker 1: just think that when he's in that role he shines.

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Speaker 1: When he's making solo records, it just gets more and

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Speaker 1: more boring. But as it is at this time, he

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Speaker 1: is I think the pre eminent guitar hero of rock music.

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Speaker 1: But there's another guy who's gonna be coming along who,

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Speaker 1: I think it's fair to say, kind of blows him

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Speaker 1: out of the water absolutely, James Marshall Hendrix. Uh. Jimmy

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Speaker 1: also a rough upbringing in the Pacific Northwest. He grew

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Speaker 1: up in poverty and his parents split when he was

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Speaker 1: when he was a young boy. His mother was an

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Speaker 1: alcoholic and died of complications from liver disease when Jimmy

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Speaker 1: was a little boy, and his father refused to take

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Speaker 1: him to her funeral. Instead, he gave him a shot

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Speaker 1: of whiskey and told him that this was how men

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Speaker 1: deal with loss. So this is the background that he's

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Speaker 1: coming from. His first instrument was a one string ukulele

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Speaker 1: that he found in the trash, So I just think

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Speaker 1: of going from that to the Jimmy Hendrix that you know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's mind blowing. And he eventually got a real

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Speaker 1: guitar and used it not only to learn blues tracks

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Speaker 1: and Elvis songs, but also to imitate sounds that he

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Speaker 1: would hear from cartoons on the TV, which actually, when

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Speaker 1: you think of the stuff that he would do later on,

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Speaker 1: it makes total sense that he was into exploring the

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Speaker 1: different kinds of sounds that you could make with a guitar.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't interested in just being a virtuoso. He really

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Speaker 1: wanted to explore the sonic pallet to what you can

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Speaker 1: get at a six strings in a Wammi bar. So

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Speaker 1: he does a stint in the army, which even just

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Speaker 1: looking at pictures of him in the uniform, it's just

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Speaker 1: so weird to see very quickly say he was a paratrooper,

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Speaker 1: which is pretty cool. But yeah, I quickly became apparent

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Speaker 1: to both sides that this was a really bad fit,

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Speaker 1: and he was given a an honorable discharge even though

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Speaker 1: he was unable to I think the report read individuals

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Speaker 1: unable to conform to military rules and regulations. Mrs Bedcheck

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Speaker 1: sleeps while supposed to be working unsatisfactory duty performance. So

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Speaker 1: of course, and it's Jimmy Hendrix, Like that's what you

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Speaker 1: would want him to be doing in the military. I

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Speaker 1: just want to say that, like, if Jimmy was going

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Speaker 1: to be in the military, I'm glad that he was

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Speaker 1: like falling out of the sky. You know, at least

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Speaker 1: there's some sort of mystical element to what he was doing.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't just a grunt. He was flying among the

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Speaker 1: stars as Jimi Hendrix. So he gets out, he's discharged,

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Speaker 1: and he pays his dues on what was then known

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Speaker 1: as the Chitland Circuit, which was a series of venues

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Speaker 1: in the South and the Northeast for African American artists.

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Speaker 1: And he's a backing musician primarily at this time, back

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Speaker 1: in the acts like the Easley Brothers and Little Richard

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Speaker 1: and Curtis Knight, and he does package tours with Sam

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Speaker 1: Cook and Chuck Jackson, and he keeps getting in trouble

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Speaker 1: because he's supposed to be a backing musician and he's

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Speaker 1: playing like Jimmy Hendrix. He's I think, uh, little Richard

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Speaker 1: screaming him for playing with his teeth and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: He would just would outshine the stars, so he kept

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Speaker 1: getting fired from all these all these guys. Have you

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Speaker 1: seen the clip of him, he's I think he's playing

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Speaker 1: with the Eisley Brothers. I think it's his first filmed

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Speaker 1: appearance and he's playing shotgun and it is unreal because

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Speaker 1: the Holy Brothers are out front, but then there's this

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Speaker 1: you know guy in the back doing all Jimmy Hendricks tricks.

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Speaker 1: It's it's like, you know, years before. He's got like

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Speaker 1: shorter hair in the suit and everything, but it's very

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Speaker 1: clearly Jimmie Hendrix. It's really cool to watch. Well, it's

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Speaker 1: funny too because eventually, you know, the Asy Brothers are

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Speaker 1: going to have Ernie Eisley playing essentially Jimi Hendrix inspired guitar.

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Speaker 1: Like eventually a lot of these R and B and

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Speaker 1: funk groups we're going to have to have a Jimi

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Speaker 1: Hendrix type element to them, like after Jimmy of course

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Speaker 1: transformed rock and pop music when he became a big thing.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, like in the sixties, the early sixties, what

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Speaker 1: he was doing it wasn't really gonna fly, so like

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Speaker 1: by like sixty six, he has to start doing his

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Speaker 1: own thing. And he's performing in Greenwich Village under the

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Speaker 1: name Jimmy James and the Blue Flames, and he's stuck

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Speaker 1: in this weird predicament because he can't really play Harlem

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Speaker 1: because the Harlem audiences consider him to sound too white.

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Speaker 1: And yet playing for white audiences, this black guitar player

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Speaker 1: playing again a fusion of like rock, R and B

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Speaker 1: soul looking ahead to it's gonna be happening in hard

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Speaker 1: rock and funk. American audiences really can't stand it. And

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Speaker 1: the other thing too about Jimmy Hendrix is that he

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Speaker 1: ends up being part of this tradition of like British

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Speaker 1: music fans appreciating American music before Americans, you know, which

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Speaker 1: is something that is going to be happening. Of course,

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Speaker 1: it happens throughout the sixties with all the British blues

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Speaker 1: bands who were really responsible for like introducing a generation

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Speaker 1: of like white kids to music being made by black Americans.

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Speaker 1: Like if it weren't for like the Rolling Stones or

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Speaker 1: you know, the Yardbirds or the Animals, it's possible that

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Speaker 1: a lot of white kids like wouldn't have been turned

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Speaker 1: onto the blues. Uh. And a similar thing happens with

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Hendrix because he can't find an audience in America,

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Speaker 1: but British people start taking notice of him. There's this woman,

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Speaker 1: Linda Keith, who I think was she like Keith Richard's girlfriend,

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Speaker 1: Rich's girlfriend on a model and she was really plugged

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Speaker 1: into the British rock scene at this time. And her

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Speaker 1: last name is Keith. She kind of looks like Keith Richards,

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Speaker 1: so like Keith Richards was only dating women that looked

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Speaker 1: like him, which is pretty cool something you can do

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Speaker 1: with your Keith Richards. She's encouraging Jimmy though, to like

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Speaker 1: come over to England, and you know, she has some

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Speaker 1: connections to like the British music scene. So Jimmy goes

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Speaker 1: over there and that's where he becomes a pretty big star.

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Speaker 1: He starts mingling with other rock stars, including the Guys

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Speaker 1: and Cream, and there's this story. I mean, it's pretty incredible.

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Speaker 1: I mean it makes sense now because we know who

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Andris is, but like at the time it seems

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Speaker 1: kind of insane because like he basically went to Cream.

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Speaker 1: I think they were having a rehearsal maybe, and I

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Speaker 1: think it was a live show. It was a live

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Speaker 1: show at a college. Did like he joined them on

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Speaker 1: stage or was this like before they go this was

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Speaker 1: on stage? Is before the show? He goes up to

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Speaker 1: him because his manager is Chas Chandler, who was in

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Speaker 1: the Animals and that you know, they were big in

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Speaker 1: the in the British blues rock scene, and uh and

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Speaker 1: Chas goes, yeah, ay, Eric, I got I got this

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Speaker 1: friend with me. He loved to jam with you. And

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Speaker 1: you know, the British rock scene in the mid sixties

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Speaker 1: it's just as regimented and class oriented as the rest

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Speaker 1: of British society at this time. I mean, there's a

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Speaker 1: hierarchy and cream they are the cream there on the top.

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Speaker 1: And you know, no one asks to play no one

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Speaker 1: asks to play with This is insane, I mean. And

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Speaker 1: so they're like they're just taken aback by the audacity

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Speaker 1: of the request, Like clearly this is some American guy

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Speaker 1: who doesn't know decorum, Like this is not like you know, alright, fine,

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Speaker 1: we'll let you come on stage and jam with us,

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Speaker 1: but like this is weird. They're definitely like this is

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Speaker 1: this is not an everyday occurrence, but they let it

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Speaker 1: happen because it is so bizarre. And then Jimmy ends

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Speaker 1: up playing this song Killing Floor. It's a hallowing wolf song.

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Speaker 1: And I know his rendition because this is the song

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Speaker 1: he played at Monterey Pop. I think it's the first

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Speaker 1: song that he plays when he comes out, and it's

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Speaker 1: like this electrifying like version. When Jimmy Andricks plays it, it

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Speaker 1: it just sounds like his guitars on fire, even before

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Speaker 1: he is actually sounds like a train. Yeah, it's unbelievable,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I imagine it's sounding something like that

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Speaker 1: when he played it at this concert. And of course

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Speaker 1: Eric Clapton, he's Jimmy Hendrix playing Killing Floor, and he

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Speaker 1: like wets his pants immediately because it is amazing. It's

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Speaker 1: Jimi Hendrix, and it's like an alien has come down

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Speaker 1: from you know, some other planet. And he is the

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Speaker 1: greatest thing to ever touch the guitar ever. And you know,

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Speaker 1: when I think about the Clapton Hendrix dynamic, I think

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Speaker 1: about the movie Amadeus. You know, like we have Mozart

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Speaker 1: and Salieri, and Mozart is like the young hot shot

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Speaker 1: and he's a genius. Of course, Saliari is the more

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Speaker 1: established popular person, but like Salieri is cursed with this

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Speaker 1: special insight into appreciating Mozart's genius, like he can see

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Speaker 1: it really before anyone else, because like even in the cream,

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Speaker 1: like you know, Hendrix is is just blowing minds by

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Speaker 1: playing killing floor. But I think like Ginger Baker heard

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Speaker 1: it and he was like, I'm not really feeling it,

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Speaker 1: which is a very Ginger Baker type of reaction. A

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Speaker 1: ship we're about playing about virtuosity exactly. This guy is

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Speaker 1: all flash. There's no substance to what he's doing. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: Eric Clapton again, he's wet his pants, he's backstage, and

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Speaker 1: I mean it seems like he's like almost inconsolable because

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Speaker 1: he knows that this guy is the real thing. And

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Speaker 1: it's like Clapton is a really great guitar player. But

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Speaker 1: the difference between these two guys is that Clapton is

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Speaker 1: a great formalist. He can play great blues, he can

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Speaker 1: like replicate what other people have done. He can uh be,

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Speaker 1: I guess, the best British example of American music. And

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Speaker 1: then you have Jimmy Hendrix coming along. Is he's the

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Speaker 1: real thing. He's reinventing the guitar, like he is inventing something,

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Speaker 1: he's not just sort of reviving something or preserving something.

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Speaker 1: Like this is a whole new thing and it's going

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Speaker 1: to change the world. And like Clapton could see that

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Speaker 1: before a lot of other people could. I think there's

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Speaker 1: the famous long he's backstage after the show, after after

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Speaker 1: Jimmy's just blown his mind and he's trying to light

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Speaker 1: a cigarette and he can't because his hands are shaking.

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Speaker 1: He's just so shocked, and and Chess Chandeler, Jimmy's manager,

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Speaker 1: comes up to him, and Eric just goes, he didn't

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Speaker 1: tell me he was that fucking good. It's like Chess

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Speaker 1: Chandler introduced John Wilkes Spooks to Klibradham Lincoln. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's like this is the guy who's gonna take you out,

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Speaker 1: you know, and like you're gonna shake each other's hand,

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Speaker 1: and you know, like like if they could have had

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Speaker 1: some formal meeting ahead of time, Like that's basically the

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Speaker 1: dynamic here, Like Jimmie Hendricks is John Wilkes Booth to

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Speaker 1: Eric Clapton's Abraham Lincoln, and that's the way it's going

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Speaker 1: to be from now on. And they both know, Jimmy

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Speaker 1: Made said he felt bad about it. He thought it

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Speaker 1: was like pushy getting on because now he's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I love Eric. This is years later the thing and

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Speaker 1: I love Eric. I can't believe I did that. I

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Speaker 1: can't believe I like pushed my way on stage into

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Speaker 1: his set. But you know, I was young. I was

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Speaker 1: trying to make an impact on the scene and that

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Speaker 1: was what I had to do. But yeah, I guess

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Speaker 1: his His girlfriend later said that that he actually said

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Speaker 1: at least that he felt bad about that. Um so

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Speaker 1: that was his his I think that was his first

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Speaker 1: time ever playing in London. I think the borrow of guitar,

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Speaker 1: he'd only been there for a week. But the word

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Speaker 1: gets around, you know, God is long live Hendrix. That

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Speaker 1: people know that that's there and Chess Chandler arranges is

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Speaker 1: very well orchestrated. Uh formal debut at the Bag of

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Speaker 1: Nails club in London, which was this really hip Carnaby

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Speaker 1: Street club and you know, like I said, word has

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Speaker 1: gotten around. All the leaders of the British music scene

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Speaker 1: there in full force. Keith Richards, Mick Jagger, Brian Jones,

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Speaker 1: Jeff Beck, McCartney, Eric Burton from the animals John Mayle. Uh,

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Speaker 1: Eric is so freaked out that he calls Pete Townsend,

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Speaker 1: who he's not even particularly close to, to go with

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Speaker 1: him just because he like needs back up to see

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Speaker 1: this guy. Because he knows that that this is this

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Speaker 1: is possibly the end, he said, of his career. He's

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Speaker 1: going down. Uh. So they all go out to see Jimmy, everybody,

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Speaker 1: I think. Uh. Pete Townsend later said that he and

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Speaker 1: Clapton were so moved that they held hands. They just

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Speaker 1: like clasp each other's hands in the middle of the

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Speaker 1: performance because it's just like you said, it's it is

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Speaker 1: reinventing the guitar. It's like nothing anyone has ever seen before.

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Speaker 1: And every guitarist in the joint is just rattled to

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Speaker 1: their core. Like Jeff Beck later said that he thought

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Speaker 1: his career was over when he saw them, But everybody

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Speaker 1: goes home in the practice, I'll put it that way. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And you looked at this earlier, and and this was

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Speaker 1: part of I think Jimmy from the beginning, him trying

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Speaker 1: to recreate the sounds on the cartoon. You know, he

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Speaker 1: just contextualized the instrument in a totally different way from

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Speaker 1: what his contemporaries were doing. You know, they were trying

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Speaker 1: to emulate their heroes from the blues scene. Jimi Hendrix,

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Speaker 1: he loved those guys too, but he was also thinking

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Speaker 1: of ways that he could communicate other types of things

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Speaker 1: with his guitar, and it just seemed like he had

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Speaker 1: figured that out already at this point. And Yeah, all

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Speaker 1: these people who are the legends of the biggest legends

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Speaker 1: of classic rock, really that you would think, oh, they

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Speaker 1: should already feel pretty assured in what they're doing. They

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Speaker 1: just feel like jumping off a bridge seeing this guy.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's like, we're done. We're done already. And

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Speaker 1: um with In terms of like the personal relationship between

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Speaker 1: Clapton and Hendrix, you know, we said this earlier that

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Speaker 1: you know, in a way they were rivals because the

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Speaker 1: public pitted them against each other fairly early on, But

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Speaker 1: in terms of their personal relationship, it seemed like they

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Speaker 1: always got got on together pretty well. Like there was

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Speaker 1: I think the first time that they met was like

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Speaker 1: not long after that original Cream gig where again Hendricks

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Speaker 1: murdered clapped in front of everybody John Wilkes booth style.

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Speaker 1: But then they actually met. I think like Clapton walking

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Speaker 1: into a restaurant where Hendricks was giving an interview, which,

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Speaker 1: by the way, well, how amazing would have been to

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Speaker 1: been like to be in London at this time when

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Speaker 1: you could just like walk into a restaurant and you

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Speaker 1: see Jimmy Hendricks giving an interview and then there's Eric

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Speaker 1: Clapton over here, and now they're gonna have a pow wow.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's just just so amazing. But yeah, it

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Speaker 1: does seem like they were able to talk to each

426
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,840
Speaker 1: other because they were the closest thing that the other

427
00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:48,040
Speaker 1: guy had to a contemporary Like they could just get

428
00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:52,040
Speaker 1: together and talk about guitars, talk about gear, talk about techniques,

429
00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:55,439
Speaker 1: talk about like their favorite guitar players, and it seems

430
00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:57,760
Speaker 1: like that was how they were really able to bond

431
00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,639
Speaker 1: at that time. Yeah, it's finally clapped in later say, like,

432
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:02,120
Speaker 1: you know, it was great talking to him about music

433
00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,280
Speaker 1: and stuff, but Jimmy had such an abstract imagination that

434
00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:07,480
Speaker 1: he would go off and start talking about like you know,

435
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,239
Speaker 1: clouds in the sky and stars and everything, and it

436
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:12,520
Speaker 1: was really hard to actually like keep them on track

437
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:15,280
Speaker 1: and have like a you know, a secular based conversation

438
00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:17,040
Speaker 1: with him, which is you know, kind of what you

439
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,719
Speaker 1: want to hear about Hendrix. I guess exactly. I wouldn't

440
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 1: want to hear that like Jimmy and conversation was like

441
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:25,840
Speaker 1: talking about you know, tax laws or or you know,

442
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,280
Speaker 1: transmissions or literature anything else. I want to Yeah, I

443
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,159
Speaker 1: want him just to be purely a space cadet. You know,

444
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,000
Speaker 1: that's the Jimmie Hendrix that we all know and love

445
00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:36,959
Speaker 1: all right hand, We'll be right back with more rivals.

446
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:49,640
Speaker 1: I'm curious to get your take on this, because you're

447
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,000
Speaker 1: a musician and I'm not so you I think probably

448
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:53,960
Speaker 1: have more of an insight into this than I do,

449
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,280
Speaker 1: just comparing their different playing styles. And you know, I

450
00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,359
Speaker 1: was saying before about Clapton in essence being sort of

451
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,240
Speaker 1: like a preservationist, Like he's someone who's studying the past,

452
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:07,200
Speaker 1: trying to carry a tradition forward, whereas Hendrix he has

453
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,480
Speaker 1: also studied those same reference points, but he's more about

454
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,439
Speaker 1: pushing it out and and taking it into outer space.

455
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 1: Along with the showmanship aspect too, I mean, he is,

456
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:23,399
Speaker 1: especially early on, much more of an effusive performer. You know,

457
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,320
Speaker 1: he's setting his guitar and fire, he's having sex with

458
00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:28,920
Speaker 1: his amplifiers. You know, he's doing all the things that

459
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,639
Speaker 1: like rock bands are gonna be doing forever after they

460
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,160
Speaker 1: see Jimi Hendrix. But like, how else would you say

461
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,160
Speaker 1: that these two guys divergent terms of their playing styles. Yeah,

462
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,440
Speaker 1: I mean, I think Clapton is more reverent, probably because

463
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 1: it's a scene that is not native to him. You know,

464
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 1: he was not not a black kid born in the

465
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:45,119
Speaker 1: United States, you know, not to put to find a

466
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 1: point on it. And so he for all the reasons

467
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,480
Speaker 1: like we mentioned about him wanting to leave the Yardbirds

468
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 1: because it was getting to poppy into commercial, I think

469
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,199
Speaker 1: he he wanted to be a stylist, whereas Jimmy, like

470
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,200
Speaker 1: you said, was pushing it out. And Jimmy's main stock

471
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,879
Speaker 1: in trade was for years is just as a straight

472
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 1: R and B backing musician, you know. And so by

473
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,560
Speaker 1: the time that we got to know him as Jimmie

474
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 1: Hendrick's guitar god, he was really bored with just straight blues.

475
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:11,840
Speaker 1: I think the only real straight twelve bar blues type

476
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 1: song that he ever recorded was Red House, and so instead,

477
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 1: I think Pete Townsend it a really great way describing

478
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:22,200
Speaker 1: he married the blues with the transcendent joy of psychedelia. Um,

479
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,639
Speaker 1: I think he kind of made Clapton and others in

480
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 1: the scene no that kind of their their act was

481
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,159
Speaker 1: sort of more old hat. And there's something else that

482
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 1: I really love about hendricks stuff and showman ship aside.

483
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:34,879
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe this is getting a little two granular,

484
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,360
Speaker 1: is that Hendricks started off, as I said, a backing musician,

485
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,200
Speaker 1: and so those guys were mostly doing rhythm guitar and

486
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 1: whereas the front guy was playing lead like single line

487
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 1: bends and stuff on the lead guitar. Clapton was known

488
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,440
Speaker 1: for doing that. He was kind of the guy out

489
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:54,359
Speaker 1: front putting the guitar embroidery on top or as. Hendricks

490
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:58,160
Speaker 1: could not only do those fills, but he would also

491
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 1: play sort of more polyphonic stuff. He would hit chords

492
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 1: in between playing the solos, which is so it sounds

493
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 1: like you've almost two people playing at once, which is,

494
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 1: you know, incredible. So his sense of rhythm is really

495
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:11,399
Speaker 1: one of the hallmarks of hendricks is playing. And he

496
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 1: would later say he said about clapping, you know, I

497
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,479
Speaker 1: wish he would play more chords. You know, the guy doesn't,

498
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 1: that's not really what he does. Eric clapping is a

499
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 1: great guitarist and we think along the same lines, but

500
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 1: I'm not sure he's playing exactly what he wants to.

501
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 1: He later said, I was said, I was jamming with

502
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 1: Eric the other day and it was pretty nice, but

503
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:29,880
Speaker 1: I wanted to hear him bring out some chords. So yeah,

504
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 1: I think that he thought that. Well, Yeah, Jimmie Hendricks

505
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,959
Speaker 1: saying that Clapton doesn't play enough chords is a very

506
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,119
Speaker 1: Jimmie Hendricks power move, is he It's pretty good playing

507
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 1: with him, you know, It's like, all right, it just

508
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,160
Speaker 1: sounds like Michael Jordan playing basketball with like the JV team.

509
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 1: It's like that's pretty good. But I couldn't really do

510
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 1: everything I that I can normally do, you know, because

511
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 1: this guy is I think, you know, the thing with Clapton,

512
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,479
Speaker 1: I always think like his style is maybe cleaner, you know,

513
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 1: it's a little less cluttered and which is like, again,

514
00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 1: I think in a lot of the band situations that

515
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 1: he's been in that works really well. But yeah, with

516
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 1: Jimi Hendrix, you just feel like sometimes he's playing like

517
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:06,880
Speaker 1: three or four different guitars at once. I mean, there's

518
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 1: just so much going on sonically, it's just overwhelming and

519
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,399
Speaker 1: you don't necessarily get that influence with Clapton. Although I

520
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 1: think is it fair to say that, like in the

521
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,879
Speaker 1: short run, that like Clapton was trying to play like

522
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,479
Speaker 1: Hendricks and Cream. I mean because because when I look

523
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 1: at Hendrix I don't really see any influence there. I

524
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 1: don't think he was ever really trying to do what

525
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 1: Clapton did, you know, even when he was playing straight

526
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,400
Speaker 1: up blues like you mentioned Redhouse for instance, I don't

527
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,400
Speaker 1: really hear a lot of Clapton influence in that. Whereas

528
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 1: if I look at what Clapton ends up doing on

529
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 1: like Wheels of Fire or just really gears, I wonder

530
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 1: if like he would had maybe Hendricks in his head

531
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,680
Speaker 1: a little bit. Oh yeah, absolutely, I think Jack Bruce

532
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 1: later said, a couple of days after they first saw

533
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:54,439
Speaker 1: Hendricks perform, they had a Cream rehearsal, and Eric shows

534
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 1: up trying to do all the Hendricks tricks. He's trying

535
00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,400
Speaker 1: to play with his teeth, he does all these showboating

536
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 1: moments rehearsal. He's like trying to, you know, figure out

537
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: how to be like like Hendrix. And then a couple

538
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:07,159
Speaker 1: of weeks later they show up to a gig and

539
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 1: Clapton has his big perm, you know, Hendrick style perm,

540
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 1: starts shopping at the same like psychedelic clothes stores that

541
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,359
Speaker 1: that Hendrix does. So he was pretty unabashed in his

542
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,679
Speaker 1: in his worship of Hendrix at this time. Um I

543
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,159
Speaker 1: would say for the other way around, probably the biggest

544
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: thing that Clapton did for Hendrix, and he probably would

545
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:27,719
Speaker 1: have stumbled on this anyway, is probably hooking him up

546
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 1: with with Jim Marshall, with Marshall stax, which was, you know,

547
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 1: such a crucial component to uh to Jimmy sound. Clapton

548
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 1: started using those early with like the Blues Breakers stuff.

549
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 1: But yeah, that I would say would probably be the

550
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,919
Speaker 1: closest thing I could say to Clapton's influence on Hendrix,

551
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 1: and even that something he probably would have discovered on

552
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 1: his own pretty soon. I mean, it seems like the

553
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 1: biggest thing that clapped in and other British rock stars

554
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: did for Jimi Hendrix was just giving him an audience

555
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,199
Speaker 1: that he couldn't get in America. That again, he was

556
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: a struggling musician in America playing Greenwich Village, you know,

557
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:01,360
Speaker 1: not really make a name for himself. And then he's

558
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,880
Speaker 1: able to go to London and you know, just blow

559
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 1: away all these British rock stars and eventually there is

560
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 1: a buzz about him that starts building in America. People

561
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,439
Speaker 1: are hearing about this guy. And then he ends up

562
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: playing Monterey Pop and and and that's the big gig

563
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: for him. Yeah, I mean he was welcomed into the

564
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,199
Speaker 1: scene pretty quickly. I mean there wasn't In fact, I

565
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 1: can't really think of anyone that was trying to like,

566
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,880
Speaker 1: you know, jealous. He took over and shut him out.

567
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:27,639
Speaker 1: He was given a place he needed a place to stay,

568
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 1: so he ends up crashing at Ringo Star's apartment in London.

569
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 1: He's giving gigs on on package tours for the young

570
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 1: Cat Stevens. Was you know that Dan in his pop

571
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,880
Speaker 1: star incarnation. He's embraced pretty quickly. And as you said,

572
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,880
Speaker 1: but buzz from England is very quickly heard over in America.

573
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 1: And when John Phillips is putting together the Monterey Pop Festival,

574
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,479
Speaker 1: he calls Paul McCartney and says, you know the Beatles

575
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 1: like to play. Well, we're not really performing right now,

576
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 1: but you should get this guy, Jimmy Hendrix and uh

577
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 1: and so yeah, it was on Paul McCartney's recommendation that

578
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 1: that Jimmy got the Monterey gig. And you know, I

579
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 1: always wondered Clapton. It's sort of always been around and

580
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 1: rose through the ranks and kind of he was sort

581
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 1: of always there. Jimmy in England and in the United

582
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 1: States kind of had this element of surprise. We just

583
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 1: kind of exploded. And you definitely see that at Monterey,

584
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: where you know, he came out and people didn't know

585
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 1: what to expect, and you know, it's this guy with

586
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 1: these monster, massive hands coming out playing killing floor and

587
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 1: like you said, it sounds like a freight train coming

588
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 1: through the auditorium and then he sets his guitar on fire.

589
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just he knew how to make an entrance,

590
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 1: which is something that I think Clapton never really had.

591
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: He never had that that breakout moment. It was a

592
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: slow burn, whereas Hendricks was explosive whenever he entered the

593
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 1: scene on both sides of the Atlantic well. And I

594
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: think also Hendrix's early music just was similar enough to

595
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 1: Cream that you couldn't help but put the Jimmy Hendricks

596
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 1: experience next to Cream and to compare them, you know,

597
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 1: they're both power trios. They're both led by these hot

598
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 1: shot guitar players. They have very busy rhythm set sans

599
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 1: you know behind them, you know, making this like fairly

600
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: catchy but like you know, also bluesy psychedelic rock. And

601
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: in nineven you have again I mentioned this earlier. They

602
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: you have the album just Really Gears by Cream, which

603
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 1: ends up being their most successful record, and that's the

604
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 1: record that has like Sunshine of Your Love on it,

605
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 1: for instance, and there's a bunch of other like radio

606
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: classics on their strange bruise on that record. I'm a

607
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: big fan of just Reeli Gears. I like Cream in general.

608
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 1: I think that's a great record. But then you have

609
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: are you experienced by the Jimi Hendrix experience? Another power

610
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 1: trio record, and what is better than are you experienced?

611
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: You know, like there's not many records by anyone that

612
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 1: are better than that record. And I mean that album

613
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: by itself is like the greatest hits album, Purple Hayes,

614
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 1: Foxy Lady, you know, the wind cries, Mary uh Stone Free.

615
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 1: I mean, every song on that record, I feel like

616
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 1: is is famous and the sound of it too. To me,

617
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 1: it's like you listen to Cream and it sounds like

618
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 1: this sixties and I love that sound, but like Jimmie

619
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: Hendrix experience, it sounds like the seventies and eighties and

620
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 1: nineties and like the future of hard rock essentially, like

621
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 1: that record and like the early led Zeppelin records, I

622
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 1: feel like, are the albums that rock bands still want

623
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 1: to sound like, you know, like just sonically they sound

624
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 1: so amazing, and uh, Eric Clapton was not going to

625
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 1: come out well and that equation because of what Jimmy

626
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: was able to do in basically the same lane, right,

627
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 1: you know, it's funny and the sound was so fully

628
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 1: formed too. I mean, you wish in the fresh cream.

629
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: It doesn't sound anything like Israeli gears as far as

630
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 1: I'm concerned, there's something there's still sort of finding their way,

631
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 1: whereas HENDRICKSIX debut is you know that classic sound immediately, Yeah, absolutely,

632
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 1: and yeah there's something about their playing and also just

633
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 1: like the production styles of those albums. Again, like the

634
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 1: way that the Hendrix records sound. They're so forward thinking,

635
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 1: and I think that continues as both of their careers progress.

636
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 1: I mean in sixty eight and you know they're both

637
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: putting out double records. You have Cream put on Wheels

638
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: of Fire, which I think is a great record. You know,

639
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 1: you got white Room on that record, huge hit. I

640
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 1: think Jimmie Hendricks said that he wished he wrote that song,

641
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: Isn't that right? He said, you wish that song? And

642
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 1: then Jack Bruce very sort of gallantly said, well, you

643
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: know I ripped it off from you anyway. Right, So

644
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 1: even in a moment of triumpher air clapp and there's

645
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 1: something sort of undercutting him at the end there. But yeah,

646
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 1: you have Wheels of Fire, really good record. But then

647
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 1: Jimmie Hendrix makes Electric Ladyland maybe the best double record ever,

648
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 1: certainly in the conversation with like ex on Main Street

649
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: and Sign of the Times by Prince, you know, like

650
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 1: just a masterful record that when you listen to Wheels

651
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: of Fire next to that album, it just makes Wheels

652
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 1: of Fire sounds smart. I mean, you see this again

653
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 1: again with the clapped versus Hendricks thing. It's like clapped

654
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 1: up by any other metric would be just massive, huge,

655
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 1: should feel great, And you have this crazy outlier that

656
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 1: is Jimmie Hendricks and it just dwarfs whatever he's done

657
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 1: all throughout the sixties and beyond. I think Wheels of Fire.

658
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 1: I think it's my favorite Cream album just for the

659
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 1: just the breadth of it. And just like you said,

660
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: White Room, amazing track. But yeah, I can't hold the

661
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 1: candle to Electric Lady Land. So around that time, it's

662
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: funny like how these things work up, because I mean

663
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 1: Cream falls apart in sight, and like the Jimmy Hendrix Experience,

664
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 1: I mean they fell apart around the same time, didn't they. Yeah,

665
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 1: and they they paid this great Cream broke up first

666
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 1: and they did their sort of farewell tour at the

667
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: famous show at the Royal Abbott Hall, and they put

668
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: out their last album, Goodbye, and the news of Cream's

669
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 1: demise hits newsstands in uh in January, and the Hendrix Experience,

670
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 1: which are you know, also on their last legs, are

671
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 1: playing a show with Lulu to Serve with Love uh

672
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 1: singer Lulu on this like really not that hip BBC show.

673
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 1: I don't know how they got booked for that, and

674
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: it's a live television broadcast. And they stopped their song

675
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 1: mid set and say, you know, we want to we

676
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 1: want to shout at Cream. We just amounts to announced

677
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 1: that they're breaking up today. We want to play a

678
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 1: tribute to them, So they placed Sunshine of Your Up

679
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 1: and this incredible searing version that that goes on so

680
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 1: long that it actually, because it's a lot of television broadcast,

681
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 1: they don't just cut it. It actually ends up delaying

682
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: the news broadcast later that night because it just goes

683
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 1: on longer than the show time limit is allowed. Incredible

684
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 1: showboating version, uh, which you could again read as either

685
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 1: a beautiful tribute to Eric and his now former band

686
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 1: or just like Hendricks dancing on Cream's grave, depending on

687
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 1: how you want to look at it. I think what's

688
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 1: crucial at this time is that you know there, you know,

689
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: you have Hendrix and you have clapped In. They're both

690
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 1: free of their bands that you know, really made them

691
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 1: huge stars. And I think this is where they start

692
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: to diverge because Clapton again in Cream, it seemed like

693
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 1: he was trying to do a Jimi Hendrix thing. He

694
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 1: even had again, like he had his own like white

695
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: dude Afro and Cream for a while, which is kind

696
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 1: of awkward to see when you look at old photos now.

697
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 1: But then when he goes into blind Faith, and then

698
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 1: especially when he starts may King, the Derek and the

699
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 1: Domino's record, it seems like instead of following Hendrix, he's

700
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 1: going back to his American roots, And in a way,

701
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 1: is I guess looking at you know, groups like Delaney

702
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 1: and Bonnie and the Alman Brothers as being his new

703
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 1: sort of artistic north star, whereas Hendrix he's going to

704
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 1: go into banded gypsies, moving in more sort of like

705
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 1: a funk almost jazz direction. Of course, we're not going

706
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 1: to know the full fruition of that because he's going

707
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:28,839
Speaker 1: to pass away tragically in nineteventy. But clapped in with

708
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 1: Derek and the Dominos, he makes Layla. And you know,

709
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: I think as a solo artist, and I've said this

710
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 1: before in this episode, I think Eric Clapton is a

711
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,240
Speaker 1: pretty boring solo artist. There aren't many of his records

712
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,919
Speaker 1: that he's made under his own name that I really love.

713
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:44,320
Speaker 1: I mean, I like slow Hand, I like four sixty

714
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: one Ocean Boulevard. There's a couple of records here maybe

715
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 1: after that that are okay, like to me, like Layla. Yeah, right,

716
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,359
Speaker 1: Old Sock is a masterpiece. But in my mind there's

717
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,879
Speaker 1: no question that Layla is like his higher water mark

718
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 1: as an artist. And to me like what separates that

719
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 1: from like a lot of his work is that I

720
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 1: just feel like Eric Clapton is kind of lazy on

721
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 1: his own. I think he evolves into this sort of

722
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:14,400
Speaker 1: like the middle of the road, like Journeyman blues Stick

723
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 1: that as he got older, it just got more and

724
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 1: more dull. And when you listened to Layla, you know,

725
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 1: it just sounds like he is something at stake. There's

726
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 1: a real fire and his playing, and of course he

727
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 1: was in love with George Harrison's wife and he was

728
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:28,839
Speaker 1: starting to use hard drugs and I mean, I think

729
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 1: everyone knows that story. But I mean, am I being

730
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 1: too hard on him? I mean, I just feel like

731
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 1: there's something in Layla that he didn't have later on.

732
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 1: Maybe in some respect it was because he's still at

733
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 1: Hendricks There, being someone that he wanted to impress. I

734
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 1: just wonder if that had something to do with it.

735
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 1: I mean, Hendricks There and also bringing Dwayanne Almond into

736
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 1: the mix, because I think for a number of weeks

737
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 1: or maybe even a month, sessions for the album were

738
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 1: torturous and really not much was accomplished and he didn't

739
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:56,319
Speaker 1: really have somebody to spar with. And then when they

740
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 1: brought Dwayne Almond into the mix. That was when the

741
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 1: sessions really took off. So he definitely he needs It's

742
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 1: like what you're saying earlier, he's just he's a sideman.

743
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 1: He's best as a sideman. He needs somebody to sort

744
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 1: of spar with and also getting back to you know,

745
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,799
Speaker 1: whatever Clapton does, it's never quite good enough. He's just

746
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,359
Speaker 1: cursed with that you've got. He always has Hendrix above him,

747
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:18,479
Speaker 1: and in this case with um Patty Boy, George Harrison's wife.

748
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 1: You know, I mean, you're you're air clapping, you're in cream,

749
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 1: You're a guitar god, you should be feeling pretty good.

750
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 1: You could probably have any woman you want, but not

751
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 1: the wife of a Beatle, you know what I mean.

752
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 1: Like he just seems perpetually cursed to have, like to

753
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,799
Speaker 1: do really great and then just be topped by this

754
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 1: crazy outlier situation, uh, which I mean I wonder how

755
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 1: much that factors into just is clazy playing. It's just

756
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 1: kind of like you know, or or something just like,

757
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 1: oh man, no matter what I do, Yeah, it's a

758
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:48,279
Speaker 1: chicken or the egg thing with him, where like is

759
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 1: he in this perpetual Bridesmaid's role because of his mentality,

760
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 1: or does he have that mentality because fate relegates him

761
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: to that. I don't know what it is. And again,

762
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 1: it's it's a little weird to make that argument about

763
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 1: someone like Eric Clapton, who you know, is he a billionaire?

764
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, he's like, I'm sure he

765
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:09,760
Speaker 1: has like hundreds of millions of dollars in his bank account.

766
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,879
Speaker 1: He's a very successful musician. He's a huge rock star,

767
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,760
Speaker 1: so it's not like, you know, he's just some obscure

768
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 1: guy living in a shack somewhere. I mean, he has

769
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 1: done very well for himself over the years. But again,

770
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 1: I just I always feel like with Clapton there is

771
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:27,320
Speaker 1: this sense of like squandered potential um And maybe I

772
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 1: feel that way because I feel like Layla, the Derek

773
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 1: and the Domino's album is so brilliant, and to me

774
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,720
Speaker 1: it's an example of like what happens when this guy's

775
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 1: really applying himself. Of course, the thing that we haven't

776
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 1: mentioned yet is that Jimi Hendrix ended up dying during

777
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 1: the sessions for Layla, and one of the most powerful

778
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:49,759
Speaker 1: songs on that record is Clapton's cover of Little Wing

779
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,799
Speaker 1: from Access Bold His Love, which I think did they

780
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 1: record that after or before Hendrix? Just before, like weeks before.

781
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 1: So it's very strange because you listen to it and

782
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:02,760
Speaker 1: it almost sounds like it could have been recorded after

783
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 1: Hendricks did. It's a very emotional, kind of bombastic version

784
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 1: of the song, but it ends up being this sort

785
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 1: of weirdly precient track that they recorded for the record.

786
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 1: It ends up being a posthumous tribute to Hendricks, and

787
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 1: in a way, it kind of plays into what we

788
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:20,359
Speaker 1: were saying of Hendricks being up here and Clapton being

789
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 1: the Saliari figure who admires the guy up there, you know,

790
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 1: because it's like, I guess Hendricks played Sunshine of Your

791
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 1: Love on that show, but he never recorded Clapton songs

792
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 1: just for the hell of it on his records, you know,

793
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 1: Like it was pretty clear that he was his own man.

794
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 1: I like clap that he's my friend, but like I'm

795
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 1: in my own class, right. I mean, it's very it's

796
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 1: very telling that Clapp in making this monster album that

797
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 1: I think it was recorded late enough in the sessions

798
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 1: that I think he knew that it was going to be,

799
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,799
Speaker 1: you know, a substantial piece of work. They still made

800
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,359
Speaker 1: space for a tribute to to to hendricks On there.

801
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:55,359
Speaker 1: I think it was a very uh telling, a very

802
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 1: generous thing to do. And when you look at like

803
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 1: Clapton's reaction to Hendrix's death, I mean there's like sincere

804
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: grief there. I mean it really did destroy him. Oh yeah,

805
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 1: I mean there's this really there was this unreleased documentary

806
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,720
Speaker 1: called what was that Eric Clapton and his Rolling Hotel

807
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: that was done in the late seventies and he's talking

808
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 1: this is ten years after Hendricks's died, and Clapton is

809
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 1: still welling up, I mean choked up. It's talking about

810
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 1: Hendrix's death ten years later. He was supposed to see him.

811
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 1: He bought a gift of a of a left handed

812
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,800
Speaker 1: strato caster, which was hard to come by in England

813
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy and they were supposed to go to

814
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 1: a sly Stone show and uh and they didn't end

815
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 1: up meeting. And Clapton is just looking at the camera.

816
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 1: Ten years later, Sandon, I could see him, and I

817
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 1: couldn't get to him at the concert, and then whack

818
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:45,320
Speaker 1: the next day he was gone and I was left

819
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 1: with that left handed strato caster oh my god. I mean,

820
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 1: he's it's heartbreaking to see him tell his story, and

821
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 1: that was an awful year for him to his his

822
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 1: his grandfather, who he knew was his father, died that

823
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:00,360
Speaker 1: year and and Patty ended up not leaving George Harrison

824
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:01,919
Speaker 1: for him at that time. So he that was really

825
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 1: the year where he fell deeper into his heroin addiction

826
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:07,919
Speaker 1: and just kind of hold himself away for a few

827
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 1: years there too. But yeah, Jimmy's death really sent him

828
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 1: off on a horrible spiral. And you know, even now,

829
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 1: like you know, it's been fifty years since Jimi Hendrix died,

830
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 1: and you know, we've had a lot of time to

831
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,360
Speaker 1: get over it, I think by now. But you know,

832
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 1: for me, I still don't think there's a bigger tragedy

833
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,399
Speaker 1: in not history than Jimmie Hendrix's death at the age

834
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: of seven. I mean, it's like I just try to imagine,

835
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 1: like if Miles Davis had died at age seven, you

836
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:36,759
Speaker 1: know that that would have meant he would have died

837
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty three. You know, just think of all

838
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 1: the music that like Miles Davis wouldn't have made if

839
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 1: he had died at that age. You know, and I

840
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 1: really think you could make a comparable case for Jimmie Hendrix,

841
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 1: because again we're talking about three studio albums. You know,

842
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 1: like he did not have much time to build a legacy,

843
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 1: and yet what he did in that short window that

844
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 1: he was famous, you know, it's it continues to reverberate

845
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 1: in rock music. Um, of course we go back to

846
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 1: the burnout versus fade away argument. And I'm sure there

847
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 1: are a lot of people who look at Jimmie Hendrix

848
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 1: as this sort of like perfect musician because he died

849
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 1: at age seven, Like he never had his bad eighties period.

850
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 1: He never made like goofy synth rock records. You know,

851
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:25,359
Speaker 1: he didn't like appear in Michelobe commercials, He didn't do

852
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,720
Speaker 1: like the Lame Unplugged album, you know all these things

853
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 1: that say Eric Clapton did when you know, he got

854
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:34,959
Speaker 1: into his eighties period and got into the nineties. And

855
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 1: it is an interesting, I guess brain experiment to think about,

856
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 1: like what would have happened if Jamie Hendrix had lived, um,

857
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 1: and like what kind of career would he have had?

858
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 1: Would he have continued to be brilliant or would he

859
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 1: have like faded away like Eric Clapton did, and then

860
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 1: you can do the other way where you imagine like

861
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:54,800
Speaker 1: what if Eric Clapton had died right after Laila came out?

862
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 1: You know, because he could have died. I mean he

863
00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 1: was not in a very good way. He was, you know,

864
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 1: us a lot of drugs. He was drinking a lot.

865
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 1: You know, he wasn't really any healthier than Jimmy Hendrix

866
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 1: was at that time. How would we think of Eric Clapton?

867
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:10,879
Speaker 1: Would Eric Clapton be this like romantic figure now like that, Oh,

868
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 1: he made this record for George Harrison's wife because he

869
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 1: was so in love with her, and then he died,

870
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:18,840
Speaker 1: you know like what she said no and then he

871
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 1: went off and yeah, and then died and then and

872
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:25,760
Speaker 1: sorrow and died. Yeah. How would that have affected the record?

873
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 1: You know how we think of it? Like why does

874
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 1: love have to be so sad? You know that's a

875
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 1: song on Laila? Like how would we hear that now

876
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 1: if Clapton had died? Uh, and Jimmie Hendrix was the

877
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:39,799
Speaker 1: one doing tributes to Clapton. It's it's something it's sort

878
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 1: of a ghoulish, you know, brain experiment to play. But

879
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 1: I think it's something you can't help doing if you

880
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 1: care about these two artists. Yeah, I mean it's like

881
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 1: listening to Amy Winehouse is back to Black, you know,

882
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 1: and hearing Rehab now you can't hear it without you know,

883
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 1: divorcing it from knowing what happened later on, and it

884
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 1: definitely abused it with this, you know, horrific ghoulish, as

885
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:02,919
Speaker 1: you said, the tragedy that was to come. Yeah, I mean,

886
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 1: and his legacy if he died and say, you know

887
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 1: January Nino would have been incredible. I mean, going from Yardbirds,

888
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:12,799
Speaker 1: the Blues Breakers, to Cream to Blind Faith to having

889
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,359
Speaker 1: this one killer album with Derek Thedomino's I mean, yeah,

890
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:20,359
Speaker 1: it would have been a an insane legacy, uh, in

891
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 1: that same window, I think because what Hendricks, I think

892
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 1: died almost four years almost to the day that he

893
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 1: arrived in London. I mean, he only had four years

894
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:29,840
Speaker 1: to do everything that he did. And I think Clapton

895
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:33,320
Speaker 1: in that same period was also incredibly prolific. It was

896
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 1: incredible run for both of them. I think the thing

897
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:38,320
Speaker 1: that must be stated clearly for the record here, unless

898
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:41,799
Speaker 1: people think that we're glamorizing early death too much in

899
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 1: this episode, is that I think fading away is a

900
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 1: privilege and it's something that people should ultimately aspire to.

901
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 1: And that was something, you know, like when I wrote

902
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:53,920
Speaker 1: about these two guys in my book, that's what I

903
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 1: landed on, you know, because you know, Eric Clapton, to me,

904
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:59,280
Speaker 1: has always been someone who's been easy to clown, easy

905
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 1: to make fun of. You know, it's something that people

906
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:03,880
Speaker 1: still do to this day. I mean, like Phoebe Bridgers.

907
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:07,360
Speaker 1: I interviewed her this year. She took tons of shots

908
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 1: at Eric Clapton, and you know people are going to

909
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 1: go for that because you know, he's done a lot

910
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 1: of like questionable things in his career. But I wish

911
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:20,799
Speaker 1: that I could hear Jimmie Hendrix's bad records. You know,

912
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 1: I would give anything to hear a synth rock record

913
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 1: that Jimmy Hendricks made in three you know, I would

914
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 1: love to see his like embarrassing MTV Video Music Awards appearances,

915
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:35,280
Speaker 1: you know, where it was like him and like jaw Rule,

916
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 1: you know, performing a song in like ven. You know,

917
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 1: I think that would have been amazing to see, like

918
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 1: and it's sad to me that like we weren't given

919
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 1: that opportunity, you know, because again ultimately, Yeah, it's it

920
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:52,280
Speaker 1: makes for a more perfect discography if you die tragically

921
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:54,960
Speaker 1: when you're young. But you know, nobody wants to die

922
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,399
Speaker 1: before their time. I mean, that's a sad story. And

923
00:44:57,880 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 1: you know, we all get lame, we all get older,

924
00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 1: we all get fatter, we all get you know, more

925
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 1: lame as we age. It's one of the great things

926
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 1: about being alive, you know. And it's it's sad to

927
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:11,360
Speaker 1: me that Jimmy Hendrix didn't have that privilege in his life. Yeah,

928
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 1: the narrative of the artist's life, I think is is

929
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:16,319
Speaker 1: such a big question and how you separate that from

930
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:18,279
Speaker 1: their music. But at the end of the day, you're right,

931
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 1: we are talking about human beings here. We're gonna take

932
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:22,360
Speaker 1: a quick break to get a word from our sponsor

933
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 1: before we get to more rivals. So we know, we're

934
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 1: just a part of the episode where we give the

935
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 1: pro side of each part of the rivalry. And again,

936
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 1: I feel like it has to be said that, like,

937
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 1: these guys were not rivals in the sense that we

938
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:44,400
Speaker 1: normally talk about in this show. You know, they weren't feuding,

939
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:46,319
Speaker 1: you know, they weren't throwing shoes at each other. They

940
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:48,360
Speaker 1: weren't saying mean things about each other in the press.

941
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 1: They were friends, but they've taken on this stature of

942
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:55,760
Speaker 1: being rivals just because of us in the audience wanting

943
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 1: to compare their different guitar styles, which we've done in

944
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:01,719
Speaker 1: this episode, and also just looking them as signifiers of

945
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 1: of different ideas of like how to age as a musician.

946
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:08,840
Speaker 1: And with Eric Clapton again, it's the idea of fading away,

947
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 1: which is not a very romantic thing to talk about,

948
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:14,760
Speaker 1: the idea that as you get older, maybe you aren't

949
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 1: as artistically artistically relevant as you were when you were

950
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 1: in your twenties. You know, you're not making the same

951
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:23,960
Speaker 1: sort of fiery records that you did at that time. Um,

952
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 1: but you're still allowed to live and to evolve. And

953
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 1: you know, with Eric Clapton, you know, I don't think

954
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 1: anything that he's done later in his career should obscure

955
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:34,479
Speaker 1: how good he was in the sixties as a member

956
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 1: of the Yardbirds, the Blues Breakers, Cream Blind Faith, playing

957
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:40,799
Speaker 1: with Delaney and Bonnie as a sideman, and then going

958
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 1: into Derek and the dominos Um. His work in the

959
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:47,279
Speaker 1: context of bands, for me is his best work, and

960
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:49,360
Speaker 1: it's music that I still turned to I think is

961
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 1: really good. The records he made on his own, I

962
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 1: think are another story. But this is the pro side,

963
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:56,640
Speaker 1: so I'll ignore that for now. I think there's still

964
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,400
Speaker 1: a lot of music that Eric Clapton made that um

965
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:01,919
Speaker 1: deserves to be discussed in terms of like the great

966
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:04,440
Speaker 1: guitar music that's ever been made in rock. Yeah, I mean,

967
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,840
Speaker 1: I definitely think he's probably the most accessible guitarist of

968
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:10,320
Speaker 1: the two. I'd say he's much more precise and restraints

969
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 1: some might say tasteful player than Hendrix, who you know,

970
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:16,280
Speaker 1: obviously was flashier but ultimately sloppier. I think he would

971
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 1: He's sort of like the neo young of like guitar virtuoso.

972
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 1: I think it was less about the notes and more

973
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:22,759
Speaker 1: about the field and even I think he said in

974
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,319
Speaker 1: a Dick Cavit appearance, you know, I never practice. It's

975
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:26,920
Speaker 1: just I always like to jam. It's hard for me

976
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 1: to remember any notes because I'm constantly trying to create

977
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 1: other things, which you know is part of his brilliance.

978
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:36,200
Speaker 1: But I think Clapton was more of a hardcore student

979
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:38,720
Speaker 1: of the blues. And you know, some people maybe labelhim

980
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 1: a copyist, but you know, still an incredible player. I

981
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 1: think it's unfair uh to really ding him prow much,

982
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 1: you borrow from the blues because Hendrix did the same thing.

983
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 1: And uh. I also, this is maybe a controversial opinion,

984
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 1: I think that Clapton is a better singer than Hendrix.

985
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 1: I don't know, there's something it's more soulful about his voice.

986
00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:59,759
Speaker 1: What do you think? I I like just Clapton's kind

987
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,600
Speaker 1: of bluesy whale. I think that Hendrix, for all of

988
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 1: his incredible gifts as a guitar, as kind of more

989
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:06,919
Speaker 1: like talk song his way through a lot of his work,

990
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 1: and it's kind of mumbled. But I don't know, maybe

991
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:11,399
Speaker 1: it's Yeah, I mean I don't I don't even think

992
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:13,839
Speaker 1: that's controversial. I mean I think, yeah, like as a

993
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:18,399
Speaker 1: pure singer, I think Clapton from the beginning was uh

994
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 1: just better technically than Hendrix was. I mean, I like

995
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 1: the sound of Hendricks's voice. I think he sounds cool

996
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:26,919
Speaker 1: on the mic. But yeah, like he he wasn't really

997
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:29,320
Speaker 1: a singer, right. He famously said that like he didn't

998
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:31,879
Speaker 1: have the courage to sing at all until he heard

999
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:33,919
Speaker 1: Bob Dylan, you know, like he was a huge Bob

1000
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 1: Dylan fan and like, what's like, what this guy's singing

1001
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:38,279
Speaker 1: that I can sing too? Yeah, I mean I think

1002
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:41,399
Speaker 1: with Clapton, you know, for the longest time, I think

1003
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:44,879
Speaker 1: he was fairly regarded as like the most overrated rock

1004
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 1: musician of you know, to come out of the sixties.

1005
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:49,360
Speaker 1: And now there's like a weird thing where I almost

1006
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:51,960
Speaker 1: feel like he's like underrated, you know, I feel like,

1007
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 1: you know, it's like him in the Doors are like

1008
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:59,400
Speaker 1: the two big sixties institutions that like people always clown,

1009
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 1: you know, they always dunk on those, and I think

1010
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 1: that they both have at this point sort of underappreciated charms. Um.

1011
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 1: So that would be my defensive Clapton for going over

1012
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 1: to the Hendrick side. I mean, look, it's Jimmy Hendrix.

1013
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:15,400
Speaker 1: I mean, what more do you need to say. I

1014
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 1: think if you look at the true geniuses of twentieth

1015
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 1: century music, you're gonna talk about Miles Davis, You're gonna

1016
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:25,400
Speaker 1: talk about Ray Charles, Bob Dylan, Billy Holliday, Louis Armstrong,

1017
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:27,800
Speaker 1: James Brown, and I think he puts you me Hendrix

1018
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 1: on that very prestigious list as well. I mean, he

1019
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:34,760
Speaker 1: is the very best of the best. And you know, again,

1020
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 1: it's sad to me, you know, a half century after

1021
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 1: his death that he wasn't allowed to fully blossom, you know,

1022
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:44,879
Speaker 1: because we we only got a small taste of what

1023
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 1: he could do. And you know, I think that rock

1024
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 1: music generally suffered tremendously because he died so young. In

1025
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 1: the same way, again, if Miles Davis had died at

1026
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 1: I think the loss to jazz would have been, you know,

1027
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 1: just unfathomable. And we'll never know what we lost because

1028
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:06,040
Speaker 1: he died so young. But the work that he gave

1029
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 1: us is pretty freaking great, you know, and I think

1030
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:11,879
Speaker 1: it stands up, you know, all these years later. Oh yeah,

1031
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 1: I mean were do you even begin to praise Hendricks?

1032
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:15,920
Speaker 1: I mean, I think Ginger Baker said, Yeah, Eric was

1033
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:19,320
Speaker 1: a very very good guitar player. Hendricks was a force

1034
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 1: of nature. You know, he's a genius. I mean, if

1035
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 1: you define genius as being able to do something that

1036
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 1: no one else can do and do it very, very

1037
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:29,799
Speaker 1: very well to the highest level of proficiency, I mean, yeah,

1038
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 1: Hendricks is incredible. Clap. They may have had more taste

1039
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:35,719
Speaker 1: in restraint or whatever, especially as he matured, but to Hendricks,

1040
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 1: it was bigger than the guitar, you know. I think

1041
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 1: clapped In it was all about sort of the instrument

1042
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:42,440
Speaker 1: and what came out of his fingers. But with Hendrix

1043
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 1: was just all about the sound and the soundscape he

1044
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:47,360
Speaker 1: was able to do. I mean, you really wonder what

1045
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 1: he could have done because his sort of musical laboratory,

1046
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:53,600
Speaker 1: Electric lady On Studios in New York opened like right

1047
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:55,360
Speaker 1: before he died, and you really do wonder what he

1048
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:57,799
Speaker 1: would have been able to do with his own, you know,

1049
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:02,319
Speaker 1: laboratory like that. Um. Also, I feel like for all

1050
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 1: of his guitar pyrotechnics of virtuosity, we don't talk about

1051
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 1: Hendricks is a songwriter enough. Like I just think that

1052
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 1: the number of songs that he wrote, just regardless of

1053
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:12,680
Speaker 1: how well he played them, is truly crazy. Man. If

1054
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:16,319
Speaker 1: you go through Clapton's discography, there's really not that many

1055
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 1: transcendent songs that he himself wrote, you know. I mean

1056
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:21,400
Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of the things like stuff

1057
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:23,360
Speaker 1: that we think of him playing with Cream was a

1058
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 1: lot of like Jack Bruce's rifts and stuff. So I

1059
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:28,479
Speaker 1: think that Hendricks is a songwriter. Beats clapped in hands down,

1060
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 1: oh yeah, and it's a shame that we didn't spend

1061
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 1: more time on that because you know, if you talk

1062
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:36,320
Speaker 1: so much about him as a guitar player, it almost

1063
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 1: sounds like a prog rock thing where it's just about

1064
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 1: how his technique is great and we were just modeling

1065
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 1: at his virtuosity. When you know, this guy wrote like

1066
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 1: Foxy Lady, like one of the most primal rock songs ever.

1067
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 1: He wrote, you know, Voodoo Child's that Return. You know,

1068
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:55,960
Speaker 1: he wrote machine Gun, you know, credible protest song. Um.

1069
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 1: And also him as as an arranger, like him or

1070
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:01,440
Speaker 1: him as an interpret of other people's songs. I mean,

1071
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:03,720
Speaker 1: all Along the watch Tower, one of his most famous

1072
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 1: songs is a Bob Dylan song, and even Bob Dylan

1073
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:09,839
Speaker 1: now plays it the way Jimmie Hendrix plained it, you know,

1074
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:13,319
Speaker 1: because he took this thing and he just arranged the

1075
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 1: hell out of it and like made it his own.

1076
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:18,919
Speaker 1: So yeah, definitely he was the complete package. And yeah,

1077
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 1: you just think of like where was he going to

1078
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 1: go as a composer, you know, as his musical outlook expanded.

1079
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 1: It's it really boggles the mind, you know what was

1080
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:30,400
Speaker 1: lost when he died. Um. But you know, when we

1081
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:33,200
Speaker 1: look at these two guys together, you know again, you know,

1082
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:35,400
Speaker 1: like they weren't rivals, but I think they do amount

1083
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:39,759
Speaker 1: to like a philosophical equation about life. Like you know,

1084
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 1: in life and in art. Sometimes you know, burning out

1085
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:47,960
Speaker 1: is better for your legacy if you're concerned with sort

1086
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:51,080
Speaker 1: of like a romantic idea of of of youth and

1087
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 1: of vitality. But clearly we should all aspire to fade away.

1088
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 1: Like as I get older, I look forward to being

1089
00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:00,239
Speaker 1: as lame as I can be. I want to my

1090
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:03,400
Speaker 1: old sock when I'm in my seventies, the way that

1091
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 1: Eric Clapton did, you know, I look forward to that

1092
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 1: because you know, that's just a part of life, and uh,

1093
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:11,239
Speaker 1: it's something that should be embraced. I think I want

1094
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:13,360
Speaker 1: to make my album with Phil Collins. I want to

1095
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:16,560
Speaker 1: make my August, you know, I want gonna give the

1096
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:18,520
Speaker 1: final word to Jimmy once said, you know, there's no

1097
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:21,440
Speaker 1: best guitarists. There are so many styles of music. It's

1098
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 1: a matter of taste exactly. So is it fair to

1099
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:27,440
Speaker 1: say that these guys weren't like crosstown traffic, that they

1100
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 1: were in some way running in parallel with each other.

1101
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:32,200
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of a Jimi Hendrick song where

1102
00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:34,600
Speaker 1: there's a parallel. I'm sure I'll think of it after

1103
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:37,799
Speaker 1: this episode, or tweet at us let me know if

1104
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 1: there was a better classic rock reference I could have

1105
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:41,319
Speaker 1: made at the end of this episode, David, I think

1106
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:44,319
Speaker 1: they were both fire. There we go. That works as well.

1107
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:47,239
Speaker 1: My mind was a purple haze. If you will trying

1108
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:48,880
Speaker 1: to come up with a good joke at the end

1109
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 1: of this episode, I think that is a good way

1110
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:53,440
Speaker 1: to end it. So thank you for listening to this

1111
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:56,440
Speaker 1: episode of Rivals. We will be back with more beefs

1112
00:53:56,440 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 1: and feuds and long simmery resentments next week. M Rivals

1113
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 1: is a production of I Heart Radio. The executive producers

1114
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:09,080
Speaker 1: are shaun Tytone and Noel Brown. The supervising producers are

1115
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:12,640
Speaker 1: Taylor chicogn and Tristan McNeil. The producer is Joel hat Stat.

1116
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:15,319
Speaker 1: I'm Jordan run Talk. I'm Stephen Hyden. If you like

1117
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:17,400
Speaker 1: what you heard, please subscribe and leave us a review.

1118
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:20,040
Speaker 1: For more podcasts for My Heart Radio, visit the I

1119
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:23,120
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

1120
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:23,920
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.