WEBVTT - From the Vault: Dreamfall into the Dark, Part 4 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:09.320 Hello, and welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My 0:00:09.440 --> 0:00:12.039 name is Joe McCormick, and today we are bringing you 0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:16.000 an episode from the vault. This one originally published June 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:19.520 twenty seventh, twenty twenty three, and it is the fourth 0:00:19.560 --> 0:00:23.479 and final part in our series dream Fall Into the Dark. 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:25.400 So let's get right into it. 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:32.600 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:41.040 Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:41.720 is Robert. 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:44.440 Lamb and I am Joe McCormick. 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:48.320 And we're jumping right into our fourth and final episode 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:52.200 in the dream Fall into the Dark series. Here about 0:00:52.240 --> 0:00:56.880 the mystique of dreaming, particular times and places where dream 0:00:56.920 --> 0:01:01.080 culture was especially pronounced. This, of course, won't be our 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:03.880 final episode on dreaming. Will inevitably come back to dreaming. 0:01:04.360 --> 0:01:07.600 Dreaming is always something that's going to come up one 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:09.760 way or another in the topics we cover on Stuff 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:10.440 to Blow Your Mind. 0:01:10.800 --> 0:01:14.440 But now, Rob, didn't we begin this whole investigation because 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:19.000 you got interested in a dream related monster from Japanese folklore. 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:22.160 That's right, a particular monster that we will be covering 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:24.240 in this episode, but it kind of served as the 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:28.600 white rabbit that we pursued and ended up doing three 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:32.600 additional episodes not directly related to it or even its 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:36.440 direct dream culture. It is a creature we're going to 0:01:36.440 --> 0:01:42.080 be talking about, a largely a creature of Japanese dream culture, 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:44.959 and so you know, we I think it was necessary 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:46.720 to talk about much of what we talked about in 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:49.960 the previous three episodes to fully appreciate it. But we 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:53.240 are going to have to also discuss Japanese dream culture 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:55.880 itself before discussing this curious. 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:59.000 Creature, right. So, as background, I was looking for a 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:01.960 paper on how how dreams have been viewed in Japanese 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:05.600 culture across history, and I came across one published in 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:09.440 the Journal of Psychiatry and Clinical Neurosciences in nineteen ninety 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:15.080 five by Shoozo Koyama called Japanese Dreams, Culture and Cosmology. 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:17.960 So this is a short article by a researcher named 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:21.600 Shoozo Koyama, who at the time of the publication worked 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:26.639 at the Japanese National Museum of Ethnology in Osaka. Now, 0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:30.320 of course, the way dreams are perceived in Japan across 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:34.280 times seems in broad regard to mirror patterns we've seen 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:37.480 in other cultures where there are some people and sometimes 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:41.240 who regard them more as private internal phenomena with no 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:45.160 informational relevance to the external world or no special power. 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:48.399 It's not like a place you go whereas others see 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:51.720 them as having a kind of magic or predictive power, 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:56.359 or involving genuine interactions with spiritual beings, both good and bad. 0:02:56.480 --> 0:02:59.520 But what this paper does is look at a series 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:03.400 of history periods in Japan and try to make a 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:07.040 few generalizations about trends in how dreams were perceived and 0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:10.320 written about in those periods relative to the other periods. 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:13.120 So the author begins by looking at the Joman period, 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:16.840 which is about ten thousand BCE until about five hundred BCE. 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:20.040 This is a time when Japan was occupied by hunter 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:24.960 gatherers who lived in small societies. We've talked about the 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:29.320 German culture before, especially with regards to their fabrication of 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:31.560 clay potts. I think we talked about this in our 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:36.040 episode on the Cauldron, and some evidence in early German 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:40.040 culture of transitioning from a hunter gatherer lifestyle to a 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:44.040 more settled lifestyle staying in one place. More so in 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:46.520 this period, there are no written records so it is 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:50.080 difficult to have much certainty about the beliefs and psychology 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:52.640 of people at the time. However, we can make some 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:57.160 guesses based on iconography preserved in artifacts of this culture. 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:00.880 So the German people did make figuring out of clay 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:05.160 and stone, representing both human and animal forms. The human 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:10.200 forms are very often female, often depicted with exaggerated breasts, stomachs, 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:13.840 and buttocks, with their faces hidden behind masks. These are 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:17.880 sometimes interpreted as goddesses or figures of fertility, or as 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:21.000 substitute human beings who are given up as offerings to 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:23.600 the gods, and you'll find them in different kinds of 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:27.040 archaeological settings, may be left alone in an abandoned dwelling 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:29.919 or deposited in a hole in the ground. As for 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:33.920 animal forms, one of the most common is apparently the snake. 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:37.800 Snake designs are found on many German vessels, and early 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:42.240 snake motifs seem to transition into more abstract forms like 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:47.320 spirals or waves in later designs. Late German figurines also 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:51.560 depict bears and wild boares, but humans and snakes are 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:55.000 especially common. This, according to the author, connects to the 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:59.040 role of snakes in Japanese mythology. There is a very 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:03.760 prominent story where prince kills or subdues a snake spirit 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:07.240 and this act leads to the creation of Japan. And 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:10.920 there are also folk tales of snakes that transform into 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:15.039 or appear as people, for example, a snake that transforms 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:17.520 into a man in order to father children with a 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:20.919 human woman, or a man that visits a beautiful woman 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:24.240 only to discover that she is actually a snake in disguise, 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:26.880 or has a snake spirit that is revealed and he 0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:30.880 runs away in terror. Now, to be very clear, there 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:34.280 is no proof that any of this imagery comes from dreams. 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:37.200 But in this period, because there are no written records 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:39.360 of dreams, all you can really do is look at 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:42.440 the imagery to try to get a best guess about 0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:46.600 what kinds of non realistic subject matter preoccupied the early 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:51.080 inhabitants of the Japanese archipelago now koyaman. This article uses 0:05:51.160 --> 0:05:56.080 the stories of humans with underlying snake spirits to argue 0:05:56.120 --> 0:06:00.239 that early Japanese culture is infused with animism, though here 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:03.440 I think the author defines animism maybe a little bit 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:05.599 differently than I'm used to or than I've seen in 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:09.880 some other scholarships. So in this paper, animism is defined 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:14.120 as the belief that living beings are composed of two substances, 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:18.360 spirit and body, that spirit is intangible and eternal, and 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:22.080 that body is visible and tangible but temporal. And of 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:25.159 course I'm no expert on the study of religions, but 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:29.520 I think usually, or at least more often, animism is 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:31.760 taken to me in a belief system that you find 0:06:31.800 --> 0:06:35.080 all around the world, which assumes that not only people, 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:39.160 but potentially all things have a sort of soul or 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:42.919 spirit or agency. And this can include animals, of course, 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:47.359 but also plants, geological features like mountains and rivers, just 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:52.720 generally places, weather patterns, even human artifacts or abstract concepts, 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:56.160 and in a sense these all can have a spirit, 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:59.359 a soul, or a life force with agency, desires, and 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:02.880 other quality of mind. One particular thing that's different here 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:06.320 is that I understand animism to notably make little or 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:10.880 no distinction between spiritual causes and material causes, whereas this 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:14.360 definition of animism, I think, would emphasize exactly that difference. 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:16.640 But I don't want to get two sidetracked here. Koyama 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:19.880 basically is asserting that that ancient Japanese art and stories 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:23.760 point toward a belief dividing the world into a material 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:27.320 reality and a spiritual reality that are separate. Now Here 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:30.680 you go to Phase two. This period begins five hundred 0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:34.480 BCE and goes until roughly the fifth century CE. The 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:38.000 historical context is that Koyama says, this is when patti 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:43.000 ricefield cultivation begins in Japan, probably introduced from practices in 0:07:43.080 --> 0:07:47.640 China through Korea. Some Chinese documents from this time imply 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:51.640 that Japan was probably a large and complex enough society 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:55.120 that there were different tribal territories. This is indicated by 0:07:55.120 --> 0:07:59.080 references to conflicts between them, and during this time there 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:02.560 was an influx of new peoples moving in from outside Japan, 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:06.360 introducing new cultural elements. There was still plenty of figurative 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:10.520 art from this period. Some German conventions continued, and you 0:08:10.640 --> 0:08:14.040 had depictions of human figures and daily activities. You would 0:08:14.040 --> 0:08:18.440 find figures depicted hunting, harvesting crops, or seafaring. A lot 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:23.000 of animal representations as well, including figurines of birds and dragons, 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:26.520 which are not really present in Phase one. Koyama says, 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:29.040 it's notable that both of these creatures that show up 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:32.440 here can fly and then writes quote. This coincides with 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:35.520 the fact that newcomers believed they were the descendants of 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:39.880 celestial gods, while indigenous groups were called offspring of gods 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:43.600 of the land in mythology. As a symbol of the sun, 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:47.880 mirrors were used by newcomers. A quantity of Chinese bronze 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:51.640 mirrors have been excavated from large scale tombs, apparently very 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:55.560 important artifacts. Decoration on the backs of some mirrors depicted 0:08:55.679 --> 0:08:59.200 Taoist cosmology, and it's in this period that we have 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:02.400 the first refa diferences to dreaming in Japanese culture in 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:07.000 written records. There's a collection of Chinese historical texts known 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:11.880 as the Way Dynasty Chronicle, which these texts claimed that 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:15.800 the Queen of Japan, in Koyama's words quote, governed her 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:19.240 nation by shamanism, though I'm not quite sure what that means. 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:23.920 So there is a collection of Chinese historical texts known 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:28.440 as the Way Dynasty Chronicle, and these texts make reference 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:32.000 to the Queen of Japan, and Koyama says that they 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:35.920 claim that she governed her nation by shamanism. During this time, 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:39.080 there was use of oracle bones to tell the future. 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:42.840 In Japan, excavated artifacts demonstrate this. So there was a 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:47.079 form of There were forms of divination in practice, and dreams, 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:50.439 as we know, are very often in basically all cultures 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:53.319 at some points used for divination to try to get 0:09:53.360 --> 0:09:58.160 access to future information or secret information. There is an 0:09:58.240 --> 0:10:02.360 eighth century Japanese text text tradition known as the Kojiki, 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:06.000 which contains a bunch of myths, legends, and alleged historical 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:09.800 accounts of Japan up to the seventh century, and it 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:13.520 claims that during this period, dreaming was used to decide 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:16.520 important matters of state. And so I'm going to read 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:18.720 a quote from Koyami here, but it makes reference to 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:24.160 an emperor Sujin. Sujin was a Japanese emperor, often known 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:27.600 as one of the so called legendary emperors. Though I've 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:31.560 read that something he maybe or probably did exist in history, 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:35.520 maybe reigning during the first century BCE or sometime around then. 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:38.240 But what we know about him is enmeshed in a 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:40.439 lot of legends, so I think it's hard to say 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:43.520 a lot for certain if he did exist. But anyway, 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:48.360 the chronicle says Emperor Sujin quote had a sacred bed 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:51.000 made so that he could dream in order to make 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:54.280 a decision in a crisis, for example, to stamp out 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:57.640 epidemics or to nominate the heir to the throne. He 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:00.520 often listened to the dreams of his subjects in order 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:03.920 to make national policy. It is clear that during this phase, 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:07.160 people still believed in the supernatural world, and dreaming was 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:11.960 considered a domain where qualified persons communicated with powerful spirits. 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:15.360 So this mimics beliefs about dreams. We've seen from elsewhere 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:18.960 that dreams could be used for divination, that they could 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:21.800 help you predict the future, or they could give you advice. 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:25.160 Maybe you would be getting advice directly from some kind 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:28.840 of spiritual entities who had privileged knowledge, and that in 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:33.119 some cases there were specially qualified people who could communicate 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:34.840 with these entities in dreams. 0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:38.880 I love this detail that the emperor had a sacred 0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:44.160 dreaming bed. That's that's wonderful. This idea that a night's 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:48.680 sleep needs to be special. Tonight's sleep is just about 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:51.120 a vital dream that will help lead the way. 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:55.880 I think you could consider this a form of intentional 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:59.160 dream incubation. That you know that we see this in 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:02.240 other cultures, like ancient Greco Roman culture. There would be 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:06.240 temples where you could go and sleep in the temple 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:08.760 in like a special place in order to receive a 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:11.880 dream from the God. I guess after you made an 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:14.520 offering to the god because you slept in the temple, 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:16.880 the dream would be from that God giving you advice 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:20.199 about what to do in order to solve your problem. Yeah. 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:24.840 After this, Koyama goes to Phase three, which is beginning 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:27.240 in the fifth century CE and going into the ninth 0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:30.400 This was a time when Japan was established as a 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:33.760 state and interacted politically with other states in East Asia 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:37.480 koamas As. There were strong Chinese influences in Japan at 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:40.440 this time, including Chinese law codes, as well as the 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:44.560 spread of philosophies and religions that were either Chinese in 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:48.839 origin or popular in China already, such as Confucianism, Buddhism, 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:52.560 and Taoism. Now, as we've discussed before, I think this 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:55.600 came up in talking about that book by Lynn Struve. 0:12:56.040 --> 0:13:01.640 Confucianism sometimes is taken to militate against supernatural or so 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:05.360 called irrational interpretations of dreams. I've read elsewhere. I think 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:10.160 that that Confucian thinkers were sort of often not on 0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:13.640 board with the idea of dream divination, while Taoism, on 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:16.400 the other hand, does sort of allow for fortune telling 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:17.040 and omens. 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:23.720 Yeah, that's my understanding that sort of three different schools 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:25.120 here are in play, but those are sort of the 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:30.520 major push and pull between Confucism and Daoism concerning dreams. 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:34.079 From this period, Koyama mentions a Buddhist temple coming back 0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:37.720 to the special dream bed, mentions a Buddhist temple called 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:41.520 the Horyuji, which was built in the early seventh century 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:45.679 by a prince named Shotoku, and allegedly the prince would 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:48.760 lock himself inside this temple for days at a time 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:52.800 to receive inspiration, and one of the names of this 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:57.880 building translates to dream hall. However, Koyama says that during 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:00.600 this period, the primary thing about dreams is that they 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:04.080 seem mostly kept private, maybe whether one believed in dreams 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:05.040 as divination or not. 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:08.959 Okay, so there wasn't as much in the way of 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:11.040 dream literature at the time. 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:14.240 But then we reach phase four, and it's when we 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:17.480 realize we are all just the dream of a giant 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:22.440 ant mound no sorry movie reference. Beginning in the ninth century, 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:27.040 going on until the thirteenth There is this period Koyama 0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:31.360 characterizes as the maturation of the political and economic structure 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:35.240 of Japan and the establishment of a court culture that 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:40.440 includes literature and other elite products. During this period, there 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:43.680 is a resurgence of interest in dreams as a tool 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:46.840 for seeing into the future. During this period, there is 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:50.040 a resurgence of interest in dreams as a tool for 0:14:50.120 --> 0:14:53.640 seeing into the future. This comes in concert with what 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:56.560 seems to be a general resurgence of belief in, or 0:14:56.600 --> 0:15:02.640 at least interest in supernatural beings and mechanisms like ghosts, demons, wraiths, omens, 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:07.520 and curses. And during this period, Japanese Buddhism Kuiamas has 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:11.360 incorporated some Shinto elements, Shinto being sort of the native 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:15.040 belief system of Japan. Again to the special dream facilities 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:18.640 and dream beds, Kuyama writes, quote, some temples and shrines 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:22.920 had special compounds for dreaming. People rushed to such places 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:25.560 en mass and stayed until they had a good dream. 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:31.080 There were professional dream interpreters and dreamers by profession. Nightmares 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:35.000 and sleep disorders were commonplace during this period. However, it's 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:38.520 important to consider none of these generalizations totalizing because there 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:42.560 are some counter examples, like Koyama mentions a tenth century 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:46.760 poetic diary known as the Kagerooniki, sometimes called the Gossamer 0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:50.040 Years in English, in which the author at one point 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:54.240 gets a supernatural interpretation of a dream from a priest, 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:57.640 and she calls the priest's interpretation of the dream a 0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:01.760 stupid lie. But the priests did try to give her 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:06.200 the interpretation, so it seems maybe that's normal for this period, 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:10.160 but the author's reaction suggests diversity of opinion on the 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:13.760 power of dreams among the elite. But overall, if Koyama 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:17.040 is correct, this is a period where belief in the 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:22.040 power of dreams flowers. Then there's Phase five, beginning in 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:25.320 the thirteenth century, the rise of the samurai class and 0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:29.400 its associated power system. Koyama describes them as, for the 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:34.800 most part, realistic and practical entrepreneurs. Koyama says literature of 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:38.440 this time period shows, on average a sort of turning 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:41.800 away from belief in the power of dreams as supernatural 0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:45.120 portents or realities, at least certainly not as much as 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:48.440 there was in the phase before. And one example Koyama 0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:51.680 gives is a Japanese epic known as the tai Haeiki 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:55.000 or the Chronicle of Great Peace. This is written sometime 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:58.640 in the late fourteenth century, and in part of this 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:03.080 text there is a warrior named Ayoto who quote refused 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:05.879 to receive an award after being told that his lord 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:10.640 wanted to give it because he dreamt of Aoto's distinguished service. 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:14.520 He said, I can't receive such an irrational award. I 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:17.240 did nothing. What will happen if he dreams another way? 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:21.199 And then Coyama says, quote, for such people, the difference 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:25.640 between dream and reality was clearly distinct. And then finally 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:29.640 phase six, Coyama says that this is the nineteenth century onward. 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:33.440 One of the main changes is the influence of Euro 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:37.919 American culture, and Coyama says that on one hand, modern 0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:42.720 Japanese culture has a predominantly rationalist and materialist view of nature, 0:17:42.800 --> 0:17:47.680 which relegates dreams to natural psychological phenomena with no predictive 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:51.320 power or reality of their own. On the other hand, 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:54.520 he says, millions still visit Shinto shrines and keep good 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:57.000 luck charms in their cars and so forth, and so 0:17:57.119 --> 0:17:59.600 in some ways, elements of what the author refers to 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:03.760 as animistic thinking, which again seems to mean in this paper, 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:07.280 the belief in a spiritual dimension of reality that operates 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:11.600 outside of strict physical causality can still be found peeking 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:15.080 out through the top layer of rationalism. Maybe people kind 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:17.520 of shift back and forth between these ways of seeing 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:20.360 the world depending on how they feel. Though I would 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:22.280 say I don't think this would be at all unique 0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:24.080 to Japan. It just seems to me this is sort 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:26.640 of what most people in all societies do. 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:29.080 Oh absolutely, I feel like this comes up time and 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:33.160 time again, whether we're talking about say, you know, varying 0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:37.399 at times contradictory beliefs about the afterlife and how you know, 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:39.960 you may think one way in the morning, one way 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:42.920 in the afternoon, or kind of two ways at once 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:46.280 without really putting a fine line on it. Likewise, I 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:50.480 remember when we looked at some research concerning belief in 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:54.920 modern China in the power of the zodiac concerning when 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:59.320 a child is born, and you know, as I remember, 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:02.639 part of that was was not that you had a 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:07.680 large number of contemporary people who were super invested in this, 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:12.440 like the zodiac system and that belief system, but they 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:14.439 were just a little bit aware of it. It's kind 0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:19.080 of like background superstitious belief that you may dip into 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:22.040 at times when it seems useful, when. 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:24.639 It feels right, suddenly you'll play on that board. But 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:27.119 right maybe most of the time you're not looking at it. 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:29.560 Yeah, yeah, Or you have a decision to make and 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:31.800 you know, you don't have any other factors to go on, 0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:35.119 but you do have this bit of you know, traditional 0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:37.920 lore that is a steeped in superstition. You might turn 0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:40.520 to that in those circumstances. And I think this also 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:43.640 extends to the use of amulets and you know, good 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:46.919 luck tokens and so forth. You know, because it's like 0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:49.280 you may not believe it completely, but hey, it doesn't 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:51.560 take a much room in the pocket or on the 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:53.800 dash of the car or what have you. 0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:56.679 A person might say, I don't really believe it, but 0:19:56.720 --> 0:19:59.280 it's kind of fun. But then once you have it, 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:01.560 you can kind of, I don't know, find yourself in 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:14.120 moments clutching at it. Yes, But you know, an interesting 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:16.119 thing that I think came up in part three of 0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:20.480 the series is that whether you have a totally rationalistic 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:23.680 approach to dreams, you don't really you know, give them 0:20:23.680 --> 0:20:26.920 any special power. You don't think they reflect a secret 0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:30.880 reality of spiritual entities interacting or giving you information about 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:34.240 the future how to live your life. Even then, you 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:37.119 still don't want to have nightmares. So people are looking 0:20:37.160 --> 0:20:40.240 for ways to have good dreams, whether they think dreams 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:42.280 are supernatural experiences or not. 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:45.080 Yeah, it's kind of like, all right, I wasn't listening 0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:47.199 when you were talking about what this dream and what 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:50.080 this dream meant. But but you said something about stopping nightmares. 0:20:50.440 --> 0:20:53.920 So let's get back to that. And that's ultimately where 0:20:53.960 --> 0:20:56.879 we come to in discussing the monster. At long last, 0:20:56.880 --> 0:21:01.159 we're going to be talking about the Baku. I encourage 0:21:01.160 --> 0:21:05.040 everyone to look up some illustrations of the Baku, certainly 0:21:05.080 --> 0:21:08.240 the historic illustrations, but I also ran across a number 0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:12.400 of like contemporary, you know, fan illustrations and so forth, 0:21:12.440 --> 0:21:16.159 online illustrations, and many of those are are also very impressive. 0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:19.600 I found two major trends in the way that this 0:21:19.680 --> 0:21:23.760 creature is depicted. One is kind of like the frightening 0:21:23.840 --> 0:21:27.320 Avenger of Nightmares version of the Baku, and the other 0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:29.399 is kind of like the I guess the Awe buddy 0:21:29.720 --> 0:21:32.320 version of the Baku, where he just looks looks snugly. 0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:36.000 The funny thing about the I totally agree, yeah you 0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:39.440 have the scary Baku or the snugly Baku, is that 0:21:39.560 --> 0:21:42.880 they both look very huggable, and somehow the scary Baku 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:44.680 is even more huggable. 0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:48.760 Than the two one. Yeah, yeah, I agree, Yeah, I 0:21:48.840 --> 0:21:51.920 mean and yeah, no matter what, there may be some 0:21:51.920 --> 0:21:56.160 some snuggling involved at the end of it. So the Baku, 0:21:56.920 --> 0:21:58.800 I guess just a good place to start is with 0:21:58.920 --> 0:22:04.320 sort of like general descriptions. I always go to Carol 0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:09.639 Roses encyclopedias of monsters and fairies and so forth, is 0:22:09.680 --> 0:22:12.159 a good like sort of starting place. And in that 0:22:12.280 --> 0:22:16.000 Rose describes the Baku as a benevolent, semi supernatural monster 0:22:16.760 --> 0:22:20.600 with an appearance that is basically that of a giant taper, 0:22:20.920 --> 0:22:22.960 but a creature that is also described as having the 0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:25.040 body of a horse, the head of a lion, and 0:22:25.080 --> 0:22:27.639 the legs and pods of a tiger. Note if you 0:22:27.640 --> 0:22:29.880 haven't seen an actual taper, a taper is of course 0:22:29.920 --> 0:22:33.920 a natural world organism. It does not look quite like this, 0:22:34.400 --> 0:22:37.320 though it does look very unique. It is a notable creature. 0:22:38.320 --> 0:22:40.879 I find that when I see one in a movie 0:22:41.080 --> 0:22:45.280 or at a zoo or illustrations online. I can't help 0:22:45.320 --> 0:22:48.760 but feel elated from having seen it. 0:22:49.240 --> 0:22:52.360 To me a taper or tapier, however, you say it 0:22:52.400 --> 0:22:57.520 is the three way cross between a pig, a panda, bear, 0:22:57.600 --> 0:22:58.359 and an elephant. 0:23:00.160 --> 0:23:02.320 Yeah, I guess it depends where your starting point is. 0:23:02.359 --> 0:23:06.840 But yeah, taper definitely feels more pig like, Yeah, pig 0:23:07.240 --> 0:23:10.560 and rhino based than anything more in the taper here 0:23:10.600 --> 0:23:13.159 in a bit, but the Baku. The idea is that 0:23:13.240 --> 0:23:16.119 humans may call on it in the early morning hours 0:23:16.160 --> 0:23:19.600 to devour a bad dream or nightmare that has plagued 0:23:19.680 --> 0:23:22.920 their dream space, allowing them to forget and carry on 0:23:23.119 --> 0:23:26.560 their day in peace, which is a most worthy duty. 0:23:26.560 --> 0:23:28.280 And I also find it interesting that, you know, this 0:23:28.359 --> 0:23:32.320 kind of lines up with the way that the dreams 0:23:32.320 --> 0:23:34.359 and especially bad dreams and nightmares kind of hit us. 0:23:34.359 --> 0:23:37.280 There's kind of like that period where we can easily 0:23:37.320 --> 0:23:40.320 forget or easily remember. Like part of the principle of 0:23:40.400 --> 0:23:42.400 dream journaling is, oh, you got to write it down 0:23:42.400 --> 0:23:46.040 before you forget it, And with nightmare sometimes that the 0:23:46.200 --> 0:23:49.560 challenge is reversed. You've got to not think about it 0:23:49.640 --> 0:23:52.119 before you remember it. You've got to forget it before 0:23:52.440 --> 0:23:53.560 it sticks with you too long. 0:23:53.840 --> 0:23:56.320 That's a good point. Yes, if it was really scary, 0:23:56.400 --> 0:23:59.280 you'll be thinking about it continuously after you wake up, 0:23:59.280 --> 0:24:01.320