WEBVTT - Selects: How Stuttering Works 0:00:00.760 --> 0:00:04.240 Hi everyone, it's Chuck here. I'm going back in time. 0:00:04.320 --> 0:00:06.480 Let's all go back in time together. In fact, this 0:00:06.559 --> 0:00:11.879 Saturday for our select episode to Summertime, August fifteenth, twenty seventeen. 0:00:12.600 --> 0:00:16.280 And this one is about stuttering, how stuttering works. It 0:00:16.360 --> 0:00:24.799 is pretty interesting, actually, so check it out. Welcome to 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:33.080 Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:33.920 --> 0:00:36.560 Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:41.400 Charles W Chuck Bryant, and there's no our guest producer today, 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:43.400 which means it's still Stuff you should Know. 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:45.520 That's right, the Jerry Free edition. 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:51.440 Yeah, it feels weird. Eh. She was like, I can't 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:54.680 do this today. I'm going to the mall. She's always 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:55.760 leaving us for the mall. 0:00:56.520 --> 0:00:58.240 I know, that's weird. Ever since we did that mall 0:00:58.320 --> 0:00:59.960 episode and she learned it was a thing. 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:02.880 Right, you know, She's like, this sounds like my kind 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:03.280 of place. 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:05.160 How are you doing. 0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:09.160 I'm doing pretty good. I'm been wanting to do this 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:12.120 one for a long time. Yeah, And I think I 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:14.160 started to research it and I was like, oh man, 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:17.960 maybe we went on tour or something like that. I 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:19.640 got pulled away from it and never went back to it, 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:21.080 So I'm glad we're doing it finally. 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:26.880 So stuttering if you're in North America or Australia and 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:29.280 stammering if you're in the UK. Perhaps is that how 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:30.080 it works? 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:33.200 I don't know. I know that stammering is what they 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:34.960 call it in the UK. Do they call it stuttering 0:01:35.000 --> 0:01:36.000 in Australia as well? 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:39.480 Yeah? This thing I pulled up just said. In general, 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:44.000 it's North America and Australia say stutter. In UK they 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:45.880 say stammer But it's the same thing. 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:49.440 Right, it's basically I think the way that they get 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:54.080 around that is calling it disfluency. No one calls it that, 0:01:54.400 --> 0:01:55.600 the scientists do. 0:01:57.520 --> 0:01:58.680 I never heard that word. 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:03.000 Sure, disfluence, So I think that's actually the clinical name 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:06.720 for what we call startering or stammering, depending on where 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:07.160 you are. 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:11.639 Yeah, And wasn't that Colin Firth movie called The Disfluent 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:13.200 Prince Who Would Be King? 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:18.200 Yep? I think that was the working title what they 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:20.120 call it, The King's Speech? 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:25.600 Yeah, pretty good movie. That was cute, cute it was. 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:28.520 Anytime you get Jeffrey right in there in an inspirational role, 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:31.560 it's gonna be a cute movie. No, not Jeffrey right, 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:35.600 Jeffrey Rush Yeah, I agreed. Jeffrey Wright always plays like 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:40.000 the super smart, like kind of like a deep state guy. 0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:43.440 Jeffrey Wright. He was Baskeocht right, I'm not thinking of 0:02:43.480 --> 0:02:45.639 the right guy. 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:47.120 Did he play basket Yacht? 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:48.080 I think so. 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:50.680 I don't think so in the movie Baskeocht. 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:52.239 Yeah. Isn't Jeffrey Wright. 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:53.000 I don't think so. 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:54.000 It's Jeffrey Wright. 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:58.519 Jeffrey Wright has been in tons of stuff. Just look 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:00.200 him up. You'll be like, oh, that's Jeffrey right. 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:02.560 Okay, this is. 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:07.440 Going terribly already. This is basically like the podcast equivalent 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:13.160 of stuttering, because Chuck stuttering, also known as stammering better 0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:21.880 known as disfluency, is an interrupted flow of speech. Okay, 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:25.200 but what when it starts to qualify for what we 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:29.680 would call like stuttering or stammering, it is it's really noticeable. 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:36.720 It's it has an interrupting effect, typically on the conversation 0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:38.840 or the communication that's meant to be going on, the 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:42.880 speaking that's going on that's on the far end of 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:45.360 the spectrum, on the on the other end of the spectrum. 0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:50.840 Apparently just about everybody engages in disfluent speech. I'm particularly 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:54.040 guilty because I say a lot, and that's a form 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:59.520 of disfluency. And disfluency Chuck comes from the idea that 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:03.119 that when you speak fluently, you're speaking in a flowing 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:08.280 manner that is easy to follow typically and is uninterrupted. 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:12.080 But when you start adding things like or pauses or 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:18.600 that kind of thing like that, that's disfluency. And again, 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:23.560 disfluency is a normal part of communication if it occurs 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:27.000 about less than ten percent of the time. After that 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:31.600 you start to get into the stuttering slash stammering spectrum 0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:33.520 or side of the disfluent spectrum. 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:35.600 Yeah, and one thing I learned, You know, you and 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:43.200 I both QA quality assure each episode, which means it's 0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:46.159 a little behind the curtain peak. But Jerry will send 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:48.080 them back to us and you listen to it once 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:51.320 and then give her any like edit notes or whatever 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:54.440 and thoughts, and then I will listen to it and 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:57.160 generally I have no edit notes. 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:02.480 Found that I know we're both gonna be so self 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:03.440 conscious about that. 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:05.200 Well, that's where I was getting to though. I found 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:09.080 early on when listening to these episodes of ourselves that 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:15.200 it's it doesn't pay to focus on dysfluency in our 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:16.480 own language because it can. 0:05:16.520 --> 0:05:18.279 Drive you nuts, it really can. 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:22.479 And so we have a conversational podcast, so we're not 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:26.720 trying to you know, we're not Churchill or Henry or 0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:29.280 was it Henry the six now. 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:37.920 Yeah it was, I don't remember. Just Calin Firth, how 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:38.400 about that. 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:44.159 Yeah, we're not Colin Firth addressing the country on the airwaves, 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:46.760 where it was very important that he come across as 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:51.400 you know, a certain had a certain fluency. But when 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:53.800 it comes to stuff like this, I think people are 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:55.960 used to the fact, like occasionally we'll get emails that 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:59.039 go you go to say like an am a lot right, and. 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:03.240 We're just like response, is better luck finding a different podcast? 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:05.960 Yeah this is not for you. No, So anyway, I 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:09.159 learned to not drive myself crazy with that stuff. No. 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:10.919 But it's funny you bring that up because I was 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:17.200 just yesterday listening to the Stockholm Syndrome episode for stuff 0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:20.159 you should know selects right, and I must have said 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:24.760 like five times over the span of ten words. 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:26.919 You can't even listen to that, But. 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:31.200 Even I noticed it. I normally have I'm pretty good 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:34.360 about tuning it out, but even I noticed at that time, 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:38.719 and it really kind of raises this issue that the 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:42.920 whole thing about starting or stammering is not that it's 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:49.360 a it's a disorder or disease, or the sign of 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:52.680 an unintelligent person, or that the person can't think of 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:56.080 what they mean to say. It's absolutely none of those things. 0:06:56.240 --> 0:07:01.159 It is strictly an interruption in what we would consider 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:05.200 normal communication, and so attention is drawn to it, and 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:07.599 it turns out that that just makes the problem worse 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:10.440 and worse, so it it turns into this vicious cycle 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:15.440 to where but that's all that, That's all it is. 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:17.800 That's it, that's really it. And I mean, like there's 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:21.840 there's different theories about what's behind it or what could 0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:24.160 make it worse and what could possibly make it better, 0:07:24.480 --> 0:07:27.680 but really all it is is just interrupted communication between 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:30.200 two people. Because it's not like the person who's who's 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:34.840 stuttering stutters in their head, like it's strictly when they're 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:38.280 speaking and communicating with other people. So it's it's pretty 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:40.920 it's a unique. It's a unique condition. 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:44.080 Yeah, and they're they're generally three ways in which that 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:50.400 flow can be interrupted. One is repetition. So if you 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:53.480 say the first few like the beginning of a word, 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:55.800 if you repeat it a few times in a row 0:07:55.840 --> 0:08:00.240 and then say the word, another would be prolongation. So 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:03.160 if the word is like you would, you would roll 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:06.440 that l out by itself for a long time, and 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:09.120 then the last would be an abnormal stoppage, which is 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:12.960 just no sound at all coming out. Yeah, block, yeah, 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:17.080 a complete block. Have you you know anyone with a 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:17.880 severe stutter? 0:08:18.280 --> 0:08:20.760 Sure? Yeah, I've known people with stutters before. 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:24.280 Yeah, I know somebody with a very severe stutter. And 0:08:24.320 --> 0:08:28.480 it's always interesting because I think, and we'll get to 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:31.720 like what you should and shouldn't do as a participant 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:36.920 in a conversation with someone who stutters. But before I 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:39.640 read this, I knew that just as a courtesy, what 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:42.480 you probably shouldn't do, which is correct, is try and 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:46.800 complete someone's sentence for them, even though that urge is there. 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:49.640 You know, it's just a natural instinct because people do that, 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:52.439 you know, when speaking all the time if someone can't 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:53.960 think of a word or something. But like you said, 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:54.960 that's not what's going on. 0:08:55.600 --> 0:08:58.240 No, no, And I mean that, And I think that 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:02.280 urge also comes from a a good place typically like 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:07.200 you're not You're not saying like, uh, pitch is the 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:09.800 word stupid. That's not what you're saying when you when 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:13.360 you when you finish their sentence, you're helping them along, right, 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:17.960 to keep the conversation on track, right, But what you're 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:21.800 also doing is saying you're not communicating effectively. I'm jumping 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:25.000 in and taking over on your behalf. Just sit there 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:28.520 and be quiet. So, yeah, we'll talk more about what 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:30.719 to do or what to what not to do when 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:34.080 you're in a conversation with somebody with a stutter and I. 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:35.840 Don't know what you mean. You're trying, you're trying to help. 0:09:35.880 --> 0:09:38.280 You're not trying to like be a jerk. Yeah, but 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:39.680 it's it's not a help. 0:09:40.679 --> 0:09:41.200 No, it's not. 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:44.319 But I imagine they also understand to a certain degree. 0:09:44.080 --> 0:09:47.959 Too well, probably just from being exposed to it so much, Yeah, 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:48.559 for so. 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:51.880 Long, and some people feel, you know, like with anything 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:53.800 like this, some people might be used to it and 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:56.080 have been like, well, you know, that's how I talk. 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:58.960 I've tried to uh correct it, and I've kind of 0:09:59.000 --> 0:10:01.160 learned to live with it, and people might still feel 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:02.040 really bad about it. 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:06.240 Yeah, I read a a I guess an essay a 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:13.400 blog post basically by a guy named man I can't 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:17.480 find it anywhere, great great blog posts where he said 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:23.600 I recognize and accept my stutter, and it was on 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:26.600 say dot org. His name is Danny Litwack l I 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:29.880 t w A c K Litwack. Maybe I embrace and 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:34.600 accept my stutter. It's great. He talks about his his 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:37.679 experience with growing up with a stutter his whole life 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:40.320 and just what a negative impact it had on him 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:42.960 for a very long time. And I saw this elsewhere. 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:50.120 But the first step toward either either getting past your 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:52.240 stutter or just getting over the fact that you have 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:56.000 a stutter, is accepting that you have a stutter. And 0:10:56.040 --> 0:10:58.679 that's a that's from what I can gather, a really 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:03.120 big first step, because I think people recognize that they 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:08.600 have a stutter to themselves, but there's also are they 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:12.640 take measures to protect against sharing that with other people. 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:18.400 So I read another story about another person who grew 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:19.880 up with a stutter and when they got to I 0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:22.800 think college or something. On the first day of this 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:25.320 one class, everybody went around and said where they were from, 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:28.600 and this person said that they forgot where they were from, 0:11:28.960 --> 0:11:32.200 rather than having to say Wilmington, Delaware because of the 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:34.679 W and the D. So instead they told the class 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:37.800 they forgot where they were they were born and grew. 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:40.760 Up because in that case there were certain triggers. 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:43.320 Yeah, the W and the D, the W and Wilmington 0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:45.280 and the D in Delaware. So there's like a lot 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:49.960 of obfuscation that people with stutters engage in. People with 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:53.160 stutters are not to be trusted in other words, but 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:56.760 they have to they have to basically just take steps 0:11:56.800 --> 0:11:58.880 to make it seem like they don't have a stutter. 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:02.280 And I think what this guy Danny Litwack was saying. 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:05.720 And then, like I said, I saw elsewhere people saying, 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:08.560 like I have a stutter, like this is how I talk. 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:11.240 You're gonna have to like either just walk away during 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:14.520 the conversation or just let me finish on my own time. 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:17.000 But this is me and this is how I talk, 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:20.320 and I'm accepting it or learning to and you're gonna 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:23.079 have to as well. And that's the first step, as 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:25.920 I understand it. Once you're an adult, I should say. 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:27.520 I think there are so many things in life where 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:30.559 that's the case. Oh yeah, man, Instead of like at 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:33.280 a certain point at a certain age, you, I think, 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:36.040 or at least I got to a point where like, well, 0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:39.120 I can really continue to work to try and change 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:41.440 the thing, or I can just accept that this is 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:44.080 kind of who I am, right and be happy. 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:47.000 Yeah, don't worry, be happy now. 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:50.720 So don't ever strive to be better people. Just accept 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:52.120 how messed up you are. 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:55.320 Right, and force everyone else around you to accept it. 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:58.240 Should we take a little break here, All right, We'll 0:12:58.280 --> 0:12:59.880 take a break and we'll come back and get into 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:04.320 of the stats, and house stutters can develop right after this, 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:34.520 all right, so we're back. I promise stats. Yeah, the stats, 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:41.400 you shall receive one percent roughly of adults in the 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:46.640 world stutter. Yeah, but that is not one percent of children, 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:49.960 because many times have in fact, about seventy five percent 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:53.800 of the time, well five percent of children stutter, and 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:56.800 about seventy five percent of time they will lose that 0:13:56.880 --> 0:14:00.240 disfluence as they grow older, right, leaving that at a 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:01.720 one percent number as adults. 0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:04.840 Yeah, and so in the US there's that means there's 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:07.320 about three million or so, maybe three and a half 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:14.560 million people adults that stutter. Right, More women, is it? 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:16.640 More women, and more men and more men more men, 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:22.400 and it's like four to five in childhood and then 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:25.360 it goes to like three or four in adulthood. So 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:30.320 by far, men stutter more than women. And although in 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:36.560 strangely boys tend to naturally lose their stutter if they're 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:38.880 going to lose their stutter in childhood more than girls. 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:41.360 Yeah, and I don't think they found any rhyme or 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:42.360 reason to that at all. 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:46.600 Right, No, man, there's there's like a lot of lack 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:52.480 of understanding as far as stuttering goes scientifically socially, there's 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:54.880 just we just don't know that much about it, which 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:59.600 is surprising because apparently as far back as Moses, people 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:01.640 have been stuttering on record. 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:06.200 We'll tell that story later. Oh, okay, about sixty There 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:09.360 could be a genetic basis because about sixty percent of 0:15:09.360 --> 0:15:12.000 people who stutter have a family member who stutters. 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:16.720 Yeah, and I also saw that among monozygotic also known 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:20.520 as identical twins, if one twin stutters, there's a ninety 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:23.480 percent chance that the other one does as well. Oh interesting, 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:28.000 But for die zygotic, like fraternal twins, there's only a 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:32.080 twenty percent chance. So there's clearly a genetic basis to stuttering. 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:35.080 Somehow, right, But it's also one of those things where 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:39.560 it can be genetic, doesn't have to be. Sometimes if 0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:44.080 you like suffer a head trauma, you might develop a stutter. Right. 0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:50.280 Sometimes it's developmental. Sometimes it could be obviously with something 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:55.720 like Parkinson's disease, that could be a symptom. But those 0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:58.240 are to me, I think, probably different kinds of stuttering, 0:15:58.360 --> 0:15:59.360 but still shuttering. 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:03.600 Right. So there's basically two main categories. Developmental, which is 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:07.600 by far the more the one that accounts for the 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:10.960 most cases of stuttering. Yeah, and then the others acquired, 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:14.960 like you said, say from like Parkinson's or they put 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:18.480 you on a prescription that like suddenly is making you stutter. 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:23.160 There's also psychogenic, which is supposedly an emotional trauma can 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:25.640 give you a stutter. I don't know if that's just 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:29.000 leftover lore, because apparently they used to think all stutters 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:31.840 were the result of some psychology. 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:34.320 Yeah, and they. 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:36.720 Just say, well, no, it's possible, or some people have 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:38.880 it and just haven't figured out that it's not the 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:41.560 case at all, or if there really is a small 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:46.320 section of people who do have psychogenic stutters, but all 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:48.840 of those would fall under acquired and then the other 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:50.160 one is developmental boy. 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:53.720 How about that guy that took mushrooms and quit stuttering? Yeah, 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:54.800 so interesting. 0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:56.520 I saw a Ted talk at his once. 0:16:56.880 --> 0:16:57.160 Really. 0:16:57.280 --> 0:17:00.800 Yeah, he's like all about mushroom saving the world. 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:02.560 Paul's dammit. 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:03.280 Yep. 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:06.480 Yeah. He he leads off our article on how stuff 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:11.320 works and he had a severe stutter. Was very affected 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:14.359 by it, kind of Withdrew socially. Went camping one time, 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:17.240 took a bunch of psychedelic mushrooms and climbed a tree, 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:24.040 got up there, decided he could not climb down, and 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:27.600 then the storm came in and got really intense, and 0:17:27.680 --> 0:17:31.000 he he said he sort of felt one with the world, 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:36.240 which sounds about right. And eventually the storm passed. He 0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:38.760 came down and while he was up there during this 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:41.399 intense experience, he was like, I will not stutter anymore, 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:43.800 and he just kept saying that. Came down and he 0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:44.679 had lost his stutter. 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:49.440 Yeah, and apparently he didn't relapse, which is pretty unusual, 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:49.840 I think. 0:17:50.040 --> 0:17:52.040 So he started studying mushrooms for a living. 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:55.760 Yeah, he became a mycologist. Yeah, man, and I gotta 0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:58.119 I've said this before, I'll say it again. One of 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:00.800 the best articles I've ever read my life was called 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:03.520 blood Spore, Yeah, and I think it was in Harper's 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:09.040 and it was about a murder in the world of mycologists. 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:10.800 It was just so interesting. 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:14.879 Blood Spore coming soon to a theaternew I hope so 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:16.040 you should write the script. 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:21.639 Yeah. So Stamids was remarkably lucky in that he just 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:27.280 basically decided not to stutter anymore and stop stuttering. Apparently 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:32.359 the fact that he didn't relapse is probably what's most remarkable, 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:39.600 because I think relapsing among stuttering treatments is actually pretty common. 0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:42.840 Oh yeah, yeah, but again, this is once you get 0:18:42.840 --> 0:18:45.800 out of childhood. It's fairly common to have to develop 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:48.720 a stutter as you're a child, as you're learning to talk, 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:53.280 and then it's equally common to lose that that stutter 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:58.600 as you age, usually within eighteen months of developing the 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:04.040 onset of the stutter. But then as you acquire this 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:08.320 or develop this stutter as you get older, it apparently 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:11.199 becomes more and more set in. And that seems to 0:19:11.240 --> 0:19:14.960 be because of the plasticity of your brain when you're 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:15.400 a kid. 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:15.800 Yeah. 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:20.000 Start, it's almost like, from what I can gather, it's 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:24.640 like if you have a stutter past a certain point, 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:29.200 it almost gets locked into your brain as your neural 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:34.920 pathways solidify and cement. Yeah, like you learned to have 0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:36.280 a stutter after a while. 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:40.360 Yeah, And I think they say to wait. I think 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:43.040 they wait like three months before they even start looking 0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:45.520 into it, because that's how fleeting a stutter can be 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:51.040 when you're a little kid. Right after three months, they'll say, 0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:52.679 all right, maybe we should start looking into this. 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:55.680 Right, you would want to go to a speech pathologist 0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:59.040 to be able to diagnose it. Yeah, And usually what 0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:03.760 they're looking for and you take your child who's developed 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:08.520 a stutter to a speech pathologist is how pronounced it is. 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:13.040 There's a guy in I think the late nineties named 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:19.439 Barry Guitar. He sounds like he played, you know, guitar 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:21.120 for the band Boston. 0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:23.600 He knows all the chords. No, wait, that's guitar George. 0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:25.720 Right, Sorry, what's that from? 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:26.600 Oh? 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:30.359 Come on, guitar George? Is that a Ray Stevens song? 0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:33.240 No, it's from Dire Straits Sultan's of Swing. 0:20:33.680 --> 0:20:37.000 Oh gotcha. That's a good song. Yeah, it is a 0:20:37.040 --> 0:20:40.000 good song. I love it so very Guitar came with 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:43.359 five levels of stuttering development. And I already referenced the 0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:48.200 first I know his name's all that. I already referenced 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:52.200 the first level, which is you you have less than 0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:55.640 ten percent of your speech is disfluent. That's that's anybody 0:20:55.680 --> 0:20:58.919 walking around like that, right, Yeah, unless you're like the 0:20:59.000 --> 0:21:02.040 King of England or something. And then ironically unless you're 0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:05.640 that one king who had a stutter. Yeah, and then 0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:08.600 it goes on the from there and just gets worse 0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:10.760 and worse. But one of the things that's attendant with 0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:16.639 these different stages of development of a stutter are like 0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:22.320 emotional problems or symptoms like comorbid symptoms along with the stutter. 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:27.360 So there can be things like blinking, like like pursing 0:21:27.400 --> 0:21:30.840 your lips, where you're frustrated, where you're angry, where you're fearful, 0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:35.600 where you're anxious, in conjunction with stuttering. And so this 0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:37.880 is the kind of thing that the speech pathologists will 0:21:37.880 --> 0:21:40.159 be looking for to kind of diagnose your kid like, no, 0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:44.400 this is just normal kid stuff. Or actually the stutters 0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:47.640 developing faster than we'd like it too, so we need 0:21:47.680 --> 0:21:48.840 to start treating it now. 0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:52.640 Well, that makes sense because dopamine. We talked a lot 0:21:52.640 --> 0:21:56.080 about dopamine on the show The neud Transmitter. If you 0:21:56.440 --> 0:22:01.359 have an overabundance of dopamine we talked about in the 0:22:01.440 --> 0:22:04.560 Tourette's episode, Right, is that one of the things that 0:22:04.600 --> 0:22:07.440 can be comorbid with stuttering because I know too much 0:22:07.480 --> 0:22:09.240 dopamine can lead to a stutter as well. 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:15.240 Yeah, supposedly, so Dopamine controls movement, right, Yeah, and if 0:22:15.240 --> 0:22:17.240 you have too much, it makes you have ticks like 0:22:17.320 --> 0:22:18.119 Tourette you're. 0:22:18.000 --> 0:22:19.040 Saying, well, it can. 0:22:19.520 --> 0:22:26.600 So I noticed this that Parkinson's and dopamine are I 0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:31.440 think they're like Parkinson's has to do with too much dopamine. Yeah, 0:22:31.680 --> 0:22:34.840 and Parkinson's is one of the ways that you could 0:22:34.920 --> 0:22:39.440 acquire neurogenically a stutter. Yeah, So that makes total sense 0:22:39.480 --> 0:22:43.639 that there's something in your brain with dopamine transmission to 0:22:43.680 --> 0:22:46.080 where you have maybe too much of it, and so 0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:51.280 you're trying to you're having trouble but getting the thoughts 0:22:51.280 --> 0:22:55.879 in your head into the movements that it takes to 0:22:55.920 --> 0:22:56.760 create the speech. 0:22:57.440 --> 0:22:59.359 Yeah. I mean it's a little clumsy the way the 0:22:59.400 --> 0:23:02.480 brain does this. It would be a lot easier if 0:23:02.480 --> 0:23:04.480 it was streamlined in one part of the brain, but 0:23:04.920 --> 0:23:08.480