1
00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,720
Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

2
00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:07,200
Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

3
00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:11,559
Speaker 1: it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

4
00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:24,600
Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

5
00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:28,440
Speaker 2: crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with Courtney

6
00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:30,280
Speaker 2: Armstrong and Body Moven.

7
00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:33,080
Speaker 3: Of course we have a stacked house because we.

8
00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:37,480
Speaker 2: Have Taha, Sam and Adam with us as well. Wednesday,

9
00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:40,720
Speaker 2: February eleventh, because we also have a stack knight of headlines.

10
00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:45,640
Speaker 2: I cannot believe that we are still discussing this day eleven.

11
00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:50,280
Speaker 2: Nancy Guthrie still has not been found. There's been some

12
00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:53,519
Speaker 2: wild new developments though, so we'll be unpacking all of

13
00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:54,600
Speaker 2: that real time.

14
00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:57,720
Speaker 3: Plus Alex Murdoch. Remember this guy, uh.

15
00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:02,960
Speaker 2: You know, convicted or you know, killing his wife and son.

16
00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:05,760
Speaker 2: He is back in court. He is looking to turn

17
00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,000
Speaker 2: over his conviction. And again this is one of those

18
00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:11,759
Speaker 2: cases that we haven't gone into too too deeply because

19
00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:15,280
Speaker 2: it's a it's a tethered one, it's layered, but we're

20
00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:18,360
Speaker 2: about to. And also Karen Reid back in court as well,

21
00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:22,280
Speaker 2: civilly speaking and you know, she might have made a

22
00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:27,760
Speaker 2: minor mistake according to some attorneys. Speaking of attorneys, we

23
00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,880
Speaker 2: have our favorite prosecutor with us today. We have Jarrett

24
00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:34,360
Speaker 2: Farentino in the house answering any of your questions.

25
00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:35,119
Speaker 3: Keep them coming.

26
00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:38,720
Speaker 2: We're getting all of the talkbacks, which we're so excited about.

27
00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:42,200
Speaker 2: Regarding the swag, there seems to be an outpouring of

28
00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:49,080
Speaker 2: love for true crime tonight sweatshirts and iHeart it's time

29
00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:53,600
Speaker 2: to put in another order. We're on it and they've.

30
00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:55,720
Speaker 3: Been so great, but thank you. Keep it all coming.

31
00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:59,320
Speaker 2: So in the Epstein Files, obviously, we will continue to

32
00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,160
Speaker 2: update you, but you know it's there. There's so much

33
00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:04,280
Speaker 2: to get through, and we are trying to cut through

34
00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:08,160
Speaker 2: the clutter and not just add to the noise, and

35
00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:11,360
Speaker 2: we're really being mindful of that. So we will be

36
00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:15,640
Speaker 2: following that, but really unpacking that probably more tomorrow and

37
00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:19,880
Speaker 2: certainly into next week, continuing to wrap our brains around

38
00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:20,320
Speaker 2: it as well.

39
00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:25,560
Speaker 3: So, ladies, we made it to Wednesday. I'm so happy

40
00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:26,359
Speaker 3: to be with you guys.

41
00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:28,160
Speaker 4: Of course, this is where I said, this is where

42
00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:30,480
Speaker 4: I was kind of like unwined with you guys, you know,

43
00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:32,600
Speaker 4: like I just had a really crazy day at work.

44
00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:34,600
Speaker 4: Now I get to hear, we know with my girls,

45
00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:35,960
Speaker 4: have my coffee.

46
00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:40,320
Speaker 2: I just popped open a sprite. Did you are living aware?

47
00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,839
Speaker 2: I mean, come on living while? I have a coke

48
00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:46,239
Speaker 2: zero going here, which is unusual.

49
00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:49,360
Speaker 3: But oh boy, we're.

50
00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,119
Speaker 2: All craving some some caffeine, I suppose.

51
00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:54,040
Speaker 3: But yeah, so where shall we begin?

52
00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:57,240
Speaker 2: I feel like this Nancy, Nancy Guthrie and I know

53
00:02:57,320 --> 00:02:59,040
Speaker 2: we covered it for so long last night.

54
00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:01,440
Speaker 4: I was so we were so excited when we went

55
00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,760
Speaker 4: to bed right that there might be you know, this

56
00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:08,840
Speaker 4: potential break in the case while we were you know,

57
00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:13,280
Speaker 4: not misled, right, because they did, you know, detain what

58
00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:16,800
Speaker 4: they thought was a suspect. But it turns out no,

59
00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:19,680
Speaker 4: So let's start from the beginning, all right. There was

60
00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:25,320
Speaker 4: another potential break today all right around in the afternoon,

61
00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:31,600
Speaker 4: FBI agents found a black glove about a mile and

62
00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:35,000
Speaker 4: a half, you know, away from Nancy's house, on like

63
00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:38,240
Speaker 4: the side of the road. And this glove, if you

64
00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:41,160
Speaker 4: look at the photo that the New York Post posted,

65
00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,160
Speaker 4: because they're the ones who broke the story, it kind

66
00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,960
Speaker 4: of looks like that rubberized like kind of gloves. So

67
00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:50,960
Speaker 4: this could be a potential break. We don't know yet.

68
00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:55,600
Speaker 4: Investigators do think it may match the gloves that was

69
00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:57,960
Speaker 4: worn by the suspect we saw in that really scary

70
00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:02,640
Speaker 4: nest camera footage. So this could this could be a break.

71
00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:03,480
Speaker 1: You know.

72
00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:05,400
Speaker 4: It's of course they're going to analyze it and look

73
00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,440
Speaker 4: for DNA and all that. You know, the glove was

74
00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:14,440
Speaker 4: recovered during this intensive search that they were doing today.

75
00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:18,080
Speaker 4: They were searching the yard of Nancy Guthrie today, which

76
00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:19,640
Speaker 4: is a little surprising to me that that.

77
00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:20,680
Speaker 3: Wasn't already done.

78
00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:22,839
Speaker 4: But you know, it could be that they're just going

79
00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:26,040
Speaker 4: back again, like maybe we missed something. But oh my god,

80
00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:28,960
Speaker 4: people have been trampling through it, you know, like.

81
00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:30,880
Speaker 3: Just the elements alone.

82
00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:35,640
Speaker 2: It gets windy, things get shaft you know, there's animals

83
00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:38,479
Speaker 2: out in the wild that may be disturbing this very

84
00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:40,760
Speaker 2: sacred crime scene potentially.

85
00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:43,280
Speaker 3: So then today as well.

86
00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:45,120
Speaker 4: And I don't even know if this is anything, but

87
00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,719
Speaker 4: I'm gonna mention it because you never know what it

88
00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:52,400
Speaker 4: could mean. But it looked like the FBI or law

89
00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:56,520
Speaker 4: enforcement of some type at twelve fifteen, just after lunch,

90
00:04:56,680 --> 00:05:00,960
Speaker 4: showed up at Annie Guthrie's house. Now Annie to her family,

91
00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,719
Speaker 4: that's the daughter of Nancy Guthrie. Right, Savannah's sister and

92
00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:08,800
Speaker 4: her husband. They live in Tucson, and they're not staying

93
00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:11,760
Speaker 4: at the home. Obviously, there's somewhere else because it's just

94
00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:15,760
Speaker 4: a media circus, right, But these law enforcements agents showed

95
00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,640
Speaker 4: up and they had a key, and they went in

96
00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,919
Speaker 4: for like ten minutes, and they came back out and

97
00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,320
Speaker 4: they were they had a whole foods like paper bag,

98
00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:28,200
Speaker 4: and they also checked the mail. And the reason I

99
00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:29,920
Speaker 4: mentioned it it was because I thought it was interesting

100
00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:30,960
Speaker 4: they were checking the mail.

101
00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:31,400
Speaker 5: Now.

102
00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:34,320
Speaker 4: I don't think they're doing errands for the Guthrie family.

103
00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:36,960
Speaker 4: I think they're looking for communications from something.

104
00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:41,719
Speaker 6: Right, monitoring, monitoring, communication, monitoring communications, right, Very interesting to me,

105
00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:43,599
Speaker 6: very interesting.

106
00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,920
Speaker 4: Of course, they are conducting active searches near the home

107
00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:49,919
Speaker 4: and surrounding areas.

108
00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:50,280
Speaker 3: You know.

109
00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:54,520
Speaker 4: For those who don't know about this story, Nancy Guthrie,

110
00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:56,960
Speaker 4: she is eighty four years old and she was like

111
00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:01,520
Speaker 4: abducted from her home over night. She lives alone, she's

112
00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:06,719
Speaker 4: eighty four years old. FBI released this really scary footage

113
00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:10,400
Speaker 4: of her nest camera of this like man in a

114
00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:16,080
Speaker 4: balaklava mask. Very scary, A gun. He was armed. We

115
00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:19,360
Speaker 4: could see the gun. It was like really holstered, very strangely,

116
00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,800
Speaker 4: like in his crotch area. Can I say that crotch?

117
00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:24,839
Speaker 2: I don't know, Yeah, but it was. It was weird,

118
00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:29,159
Speaker 2: properly stashed. It wasn't anybody who had any formal gun.

119
00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:31,599
Speaker 3: Right. This was really scary footage.

120
00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,920
Speaker 4: And he's like hiding, he's covering the ring camera or

121
00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:38,080
Speaker 4: the nest camera camera with like bushes that he went

122
00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:38,600
Speaker 4: and grabbed.

123
00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:39,839
Speaker 3: It was very scary.

124
00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,920
Speaker 4: And just thinking about it and thinking of myself, I'm

125
00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:48,000
Speaker 4: fifty and if I had seen that, I would be terrified.

126
00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,800
Speaker 4: I can't imagine an eighty four year old woman who

127
00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:54,640
Speaker 4: lives alone, who's immobile. She's very ambulatory, right, Like, she's

128
00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:58,640
Speaker 4: very sharp minded, but she has mobility issues, and so

129
00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:00,480
Speaker 4: I just can't imagine how scary it must have been

130
00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:00,880
Speaker 4: for her.

131
00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:03,160
Speaker 3: Let's can we let's go to a talk back.

132
00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:08,080
Speaker 7: Hey guys, it's Jen from Florida. My real concern with

133
00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,679
Speaker 7: the Guthrie case is what if this person didn't really

134
00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,880
Speaker 7: know who she was and just targeted her for being elderly,

135
00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:18,800
Speaker 7: And now that they know how much media coverage it's getting,

136
00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:21,720
Speaker 7: they're in over their heads, and just thinking about that

137
00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,120
Speaker 7: is terrifying, and I just hope that she's still returned

138
00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:24,720
Speaker 7: home safely.

139
00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:26,320
Speaker 3: Love you guys. Thanks.

140
00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,560
Speaker 2: Oh what an interesting perspective. I hadn't considered that.

141
00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:32,960
Speaker 4: I kind of did, but I didn't want to say

142
00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,440
Speaker 4: it out loud, But yes, yeah, I guess.

143
00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:40,720
Speaker 6: Do you guys remember this timeline? It seems like it's

144
00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:43,400
Speaker 6: been going on. It's been quote only eleven days, but

145
00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:49,440
Speaker 6: eleven harrowing days. Do you remember how soon the ransom

146
00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:51,200
Speaker 6: notes were sent out?

147
00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,800
Speaker 4: I think that we learned about the ransom notes on Wednesday,

148
00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:56,960
Speaker 4: the third, I believe.

149
00:07:57,280 --> 00:07:59,240
Speaker 6: Okay, so that would have been about day three Because

150
00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:01,600
Speaker 6: I'm just I'm thinking through what the person on the

151
00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,360
Speaker 6: talk back said, which it is. It's an interesting and

152
00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:08,160
Speaker 6: terrifying idea, but you'd need to then formulate a plan,

153
00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:09,360
Speaker 6: do you know what I mean?

154
00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:12,160
Speaker 3: Well, there's now this other could be fake.

155
00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:15,240
Speaker 2: I don't know the other bitcoin too, So now somebody's

156
00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:20,160
Speaker 2: saying that this also straight to TMZ, who again, Harvey

157
00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,640
Speaker 2: Levin TMZ finds themselves in the center of this whirlwind.

158
00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:24,840
Speaker 3: This is so weird to me.

159
00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:27,000
Speaker 4: Can we talk about that for a moment, Steah, This

160
00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:31,920
Speaker 4: bitcoin doing so, TMZ just summarize it. TMZ got an

161
00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:35,240
Speaker 4: email today from someone to know the kidnapper. They know

162
00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:38,559
Speaker 4: who it is, and they're demanding one bitcoin, which is

163
00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:44,080
Speaker 4: about sixty grand, okay, in exchange for information about who

164
00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:46,360
Speaker 4: the kidnapper is. Right, I mean, this is the problem

165
00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:48,719
Speaker 4: with ra Why would you do this? Like, Okay, it's

166
00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:51,480
Speaker 4: so stupid to me. Why not just call the FBI

167
00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:55,679
Speaker 4: and get the reward it's fifty grand.

168
00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,280
Speaker 3: And be a hero? Like do you know what I mean?

169
00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,000
Speaker 3: This is so charm to me. Yeah, you're so smart

170
00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:02,960
Speaker 3: and that is so true. Yeah.

171
00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:08,720
Speaker 6: Well, however, unless the person is involved with other things,

172
00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:12,320
Speaker 6: involved in some capacity or knowing that if they are

173
00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:15,480
Speaker 6: somehow outed as the person who gave this tip to

174
00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:16,520
Speaker 6: the FBI, then.

175
00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:20,520
Speaker 3: They would be in trouble with very dangerous people. Right.

176
00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:23,400
Speaker 2: So the thing is that we also know to not

177
00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,000
Speaker 2: be true, just for clarity, even since we were together

178
00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:28,880
Speaker 2: last night, is that the person that was detained yesterday

179
00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:33,040
Speaker 2: evening was released FYI in case you missed that today.

180
00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:35,920
Speaker 2: Want to be very clear, So the person that was

181
00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:40,679
Speaker 2: brought into custody yesterday was also released. They searched his

182
00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:43,800
Speaker 2: you know, the home he had been staying at in

183
00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:47,160
Speaker 2: car and is not a suspect.

184
00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:52,320
Speaker 4: So this this continues, I want a floya the search warrant, like,

185
00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:55,480
Speaker 4: I want to know why they thought it was him.

186
00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:59,400
Speaker 4: But it's literally none of my business, but I want

187
00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:03,120
Speaker 4: to know. I want to know what investigatory things did

188
00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:06,120
Speaker 4: they They asked for the search warrant, like is it

189
00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:09,480
Speaker 4: the car? Is it that his phone was in the neighborhood?

190
00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,160
Speaker 4: You know he's a delivery driver, right, yeah, so it

191
00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:15,960
Speaker 4: was also they geo fenced it somehow and his phone,

192
00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:19,360
Speaker 4: you know, his phone was in the in the area

193
00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,600
Speaker 4: at the time because he was maybe delivering and delivering something.

194
00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:25,760
Speaker 3: I don't know, you know, but I want to know why.

195
00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:28,560
Speaker 6: They must have had something. But this man, whose name

196
00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:29,560
Speaker 6: I don't even know if.

197
00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:33,760
Speaker 3: We should give. Yeah, he's he's been through enough.

198
00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:37,720
Speaker 6: But you know, he told reporters I didn't do anything.

199
00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,520
Speaker 6: I hope they get the suspect because I'm not it.

200
00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:43,400
Speaker 6: I want to clear my name. By the way, if

201
00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:45,600
Speaker 6: you're just joining us, this is true crime. Tonight, we're

202
00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:49,360
Speaker 6: on iHeartRadio. I'm Courtney. I am here as always with

203
00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:54,120
Speaker 6: Body Moven and Stephanie Leidecker, and we're talking about day

204
00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:59,960
Speaker 6: eleven of Nancy Guthrie's abduction. But I gotta say, body,

205
00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:04,760
Speaker 6: I'm I'm deadly curious too on what grounds. Yeah, because

206
00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:07,320
Speaker 6: that was to say it was a huge to do

207
00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,680
Speaker 6: is such a gross understatement everything that went on last

208
00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,000
Speaker 6: night with the capture and everything else, and to have

209
00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:16,840
Speaker 6: him released is yeah.

210
00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:19,800
Speaker 4: And it's my understanding too that you know there was

211
00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:23,559
Speaker 4: some damage done to his house, like they they hurt,

212
00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,000
Speaker 4: they hurt, they hurt the garage door, as what I

213
00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:28,280
Speaker 4: was going to say, like, apparently they damaged the garage

214
00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:31,480
Speaker 4: door to this guy's house and it's pretty messy, and

215
00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,800
Speaker 4: I mean, I feel really bad for his family, especially.

216
00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:36,960
Speaker 2: It happens when someone gets a search warrant. I've never

217
00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:41,520
Speaker 2: experienced this personally, thankfully, that someone just stay just bang

218
00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:44,360
Speaker 2: on your door and boom, they're just tearing through your

219
00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:47,600
Speaker 2: house and leaving it in the shambles. And if you've

220
00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:51,800
Speaker 2: done nothing wrong, all of your items are thrown everywhere

221
00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,160
Speaker 2: and your cushions are all torn up.

222
00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:58,520
Speaker 3: Is that what happens? Yeah, that's my understanding. Yeah, that's understanding.

223
00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:01,400
Speaker 6: So messy and you should actually asked Jared to confirm

224
00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:04,680
Speaker 6: because what I've seen on TV. I'm thinking specifically of

225
00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,240
Speaker 6: adolescents the movie and the house skits.

226
00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:12,920
Speaker 2: I understand why, but why in sacks you would think

227
00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,920
Speaker 2: you were ransack in small sections, one at a time,

228
00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:17,440
Speaker 2: with the owner standing there.

229
00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:18,360
Speaker 3: You know, I don't know.

230
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,880
Speaker 4: It's so definitely times I don't think riff want the

231
00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:23,960
Speaker 4: I don't want. I don't think they want the occupants

232
00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:27,320
Speaker 4: of the home in the home while they're looking at stuff,

233
00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:31,480
Speaker 4: because it's dangerous for them the law enforcement agents, you know,

234
00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:34,920
Speaker 4: mm hmm, yeah, so many times, like I think last night,

235
00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:39,080
Speaker 4: if I remember correctly, you know, the mother in law

236
00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:40,679
Speaker 4: of the you know, the guy that they did the

237
00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,200
Speaker 4: search weren't was outside of the home doing interviews with

238
00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:46,760
Speaker 4: like CNN and Brian Entton and whatnot. They weren't in

239
00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:47,920
Speaker 4: the home when the search was going on.

240
00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,680
Speaker 2: That Brian Nton at it again, I know, looks like

241
00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,520
Speaker 2: a million bucks, you know, all shined up right in

242
00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:56,480
Speaker 2: front of that house.

243
00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:58,440
Speaker 3: I don't know how he pulls it off every day.

244
00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:00,960
Speaker 4: I don't know how he stays awake. But this is crazy.

245
00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:05,440
Speaker 4: Nearly eighteen thousand calls have come in to the Pima

246
00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:09,560
Speaker 4: County Sheriff's Office since February first, with four thousand in

247
00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:14,760
Speaker 4: the last twenty four hours. Man, if you listen, don't

248
00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,959
Speaker 4: call them unless you really have a tip, you know

249
00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:22,360
Speaker 4: what I mean, Like, do not bother these people. They

250
00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:24,640
Speaker 4: have to look at each one. This is a lot

251
00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:28,040
Speaker 4: of manpower. I'm not discouraging anybody from calling in a

252
00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,360
Speaker 4: genuine tip, right, but you know, don't call them into

253
00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:34,600
Speaker 4: wish condolences and things like that, Like and no clients,

254
00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:38,640
Speaker 4: stop the trolling, you know what I mean? And I

255
00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:40,840
Speaker 4: know every Internet sleuth out there things that they have

256
00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:43,920
Speaker 4: a break in the case. Put it in a package,

257
00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,840
Speaker 4: email it in you don't have to call, put it together,

258
00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:51,360
Speaker 4: get all your thoughts on paper, you know what I mean.

259
00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:53,520
Speaker 4: You don't have to call them because you think the

260
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,160
Speaker 4: guy has eyeliner on, do you know what I mean? Like,

261
00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:58,440
Speaker 4: enough enough with the craziness.

262
00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:02,080
Speaker 2: This is just like one of those random people in

263
00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:06,400
Speaker 2: the Luigi Mangioni case, for example, just some random person

264
00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:09,520
Speaker 2: at the McDonald's you know, who was a customer that

265
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,160
Speaker 2: they saw somebody in the corner that sort of kind

266
00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:14,120
Speaker 2: of looked like the guy.

267
00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:15,559
Speaker 3: Remember the al Tuna.

268
00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:19,560
Speaker 2: Police didn't even think that was possibly him, So it

269
00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:23,200
Speaker 2: could be a random sighting It's a tough fine line

270
00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:24,880
Speaker 2: because yeah, you can't clown the cops.

271
00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:26,080
Speaker 3: It wastes their time.

272
00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:31,240
Speaker 2: And at the same time, sometimes the littlest detail you

273
00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:32,600
Speaker 2: should share it.

274
00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,760
Speaker 6: Did you guys see that there was officials had to

275
00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:40,320
Speaker 6: take time out of their investigation to make the announcement.

276
00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:44,480
Speaker 3: And this was based on a YouTuber who was.

277
00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:49,720
Speaker 6: Doing, you know, streaming from the Guthrie residents and had

278
00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,240
Speaker 6: ordered uber eats and they said, can people please not

279
00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:55,520
Speaker 6: have food delivered to a crime scene?

280
00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:58,520
Speaker 4: So that was one that wasn't the YouTuber that did that.

281
00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:02,080
Speaker 4: It was the YouTuber. It was one of his audience

282
00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,720
Speaker 4: members that was like sending him a thing he didn't know.

283
00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:09,080
Speaker 2: Oh, I see, okay, even I was asking about that

284
00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,840
Speaker 2: today too, and now all I see is pizza everywhere

285
00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:14,760
Speaker 2: because I'm a deep and Epstein file, so even that

286
00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:15,800
Speaker 2: ring strange to me.

287
00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:22,240
Speaker 4: I'm like, people have started delivering flowers to Nancy's home

288
00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:25,760
Speaker 4: and a little memorial is being kind of like erected

289
00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:30,240
Speaker 4: like near her the edge of her yard. It's quite beautiful.

290
00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:32,520
Speaker 4: Hull Well, stick around. We're going to be joined by

291
00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:37,240
Speaker 4: Attorney Jarrett Farentino, who is going to answer some legal

292
00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:41,160
Speaker 4: questions as they're pertaining to the Nancy Gothrie case. Going

293
00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,000
Speaker 4: to break down the detention and ransom notes and what

294
00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:47,640
Speaker 4: could legally happen. Next and later we'll be talking about

295
00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:53,200
Speaker 4: Haaren Reid's reply all mistake. It's everyone's nightmare, gone legal.

296
00:15:53,640 --> 00:16:06,200
Speaker 4: Keep it here True Crime Tonight.

297
00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:10,240
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

298
00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,640
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

299
00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:17,480
Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong and body move in and we have our

300
00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:21,880
Speaker 2: very favorite prosecutor, Jarrett Farentino with us this evening. By

301
00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:24,720
Speaker 2: the way, Jarrett, you've had a lot on your plate.

302
00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:28,360
Speaker 2: There are so many cases to get through. We've also

303
00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:30,960
Speaker 2: been getting a ton of questions from you guys, so

304
00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:32,200
Speaker 2: keep them coming.

305
00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:33,440
Speaker 3: If you want to leave us a talk.

306
00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:36,480
Speaker 2: Back, please do or call us live eight eight eight

307
00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:41,960
Speaker 2: three one Crime. We're obviously knee deep in discussing Nancy Guthrie,

308
00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:46,240
Speaker 2: and it appears that this abduction is not an easy

309
00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,520
Speaker 2: an easy thing to solve in eleven days and it continues.

310
00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,360
Speaker 3: So Jarrett, we're so glad you're here. Yes, bod you

311
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,200
Speaker 3: want to give us a little bit of a quick reset.

312
00:16:57,480 --> 00:16:59,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, I could do a little bring you back up

313
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,360
Speaker 4: to speed, right, if you're just joining. We've been talking

314
00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:04,439
Speaker 4: about Nancy Guthrie, and we went over like kind of

315
00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,480
Speaker 4: what happened today. And what happened today was they found

316
00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:11,800
Speaker 4: this very interesting glove, right, this black like kind of

317
00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:14,639
Speaker 4: like rubberized glove, something that you would wear like if

318
00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:18,000
Speaker 4: you were handling chemicals or something. It looks like it

319
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:21,520
Speaker 4: looks very rubberized. And they found this glove about a

320
00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:23,440
Speaker 4: mile and a half from Nancy's house. So this could

321
00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:27,000
Speaker 4: be a potential break or it could just be trash.

322
00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:31,040
Speaker 4: We don't know yet, right, And the FBI, you know,

323
00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:35,959
Speaker 4: they're conducting all these really active searches near Nancy Guthrie's home.

324
00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,320
Speaker 4: And they visited Annie Guthrie's home today and got the mail,

325
00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,439
Speaker 4: which I thought was pretty interesting. But so that's a

326
00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,520
Speaker 4: summary of what happened today. Oh, oh, biggest thing. And

327
00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:50,680
Speaker 4: last night they took this guy into custody. They said

328
00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:52,680
Speaker 4: they might have a suspect. They took this guy into

329
00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:55,119
Speaker 4: custody and then like an hour and a half later,

330
00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,480
Speaker 4: he's back at home, not questioned really at all and says,

331
00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:00,720
Speaker 4: I don't know what they wanted with me. They said

332
00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:03,879
Speaker 4: that my eyelashes might have matched, which does not make

333
00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,200
Speaker 4: any sense at all, because a million people's eyelashes might

334
00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:09,439
Speaker 4: look like the suspects from the ring camp. Doesn't make

335
00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:12,800
Speaker 4: any sense. Everything's crazy. Nothing makes sense in this case.

336
00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:16,120
Speaker 3: No, and there was that other letter today send to TMZ.

337
00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:16,879
Speaker 3: Yeah forgot.

338
00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:19,679
Speaker 4: There's been so many things, and this crazy letter to

339
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:24,640
Speaker 4: TMZ asking for one bitcoin because they they know who

340
00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,919
Speaker 4: the kidnapper is and they're going to tell TMZ if

341
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,399
Speaker 4: TMZ sends them one bitcoin, which is about sixty grand,

342
00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,200
Speaker 4: instead of just calling the FBI and collecting the fifty grand,

343
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,240
Speaker 4: they're going to call TMZ. It's crazy. It's brought out

344
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,359
Speaker 4: all the crazies, in my opinion. I'm here here we

345
00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:42,200
Speaker 4: have broke down so well though.

346
00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:43,640
Speaker 3: No I did, and I forgot a lot of things.

347
00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:44,440
Speaker 3: You did a good thing.

348
00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:48,000
Speaker 4: But we've got a couple of talkbacks that are talking

349
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,680
Speaker 4: about some like legal questions, and since we have Jarrett,

350
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:53,359
Speaker 4: I thought it would be great to play one of them.

351
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:54,600
Speaker 3: Let's let's go down right now.

352
00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,520
Speaker 8: Hey, True crime and I Corey calling in from New

353
00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:01,359
Speaker 8: York City. Quick question for you. So in the Nancy

354
00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:04,440
Speaker 8: Got three case, my understanding as a man was taken

355
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:08,440
Speaker 8: into custody and question in her disappearance, and then released

356
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,639
Speaker 8: with no charges. My question is this, if you're that

357
00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:14,919
Speaker 8: person and your name ends up in the media, do

358
00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:18,440
Speaker 8: you have any legal grounds to sue for being publicly named?

359
00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:19,639
Speaker 5: What love your thoughts?

360
00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:22,919
Speaker 3: Hmm, such a great question.

361
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,800
Speaker 2: It's a moral answer and then there's the legal answer.

362
00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, well they're both know the answer to the both

363
00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:31,159
Speaker 5: of those are no.

364
00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,959
Speaker 9: I think so if you're doing your job and the

365
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:39,000
Speaker 9: police properly took this person in, they were following the law,

366
00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:42,720
Speaker 9: there was no malice, there was no lies, there were

367
00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:46,800
Speaker 9: no misrepresentations, then this person does not have a claim

368
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:50,639
Speaker 9: so long as they were identified as a suspect. And

369
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:53,480
Speaker 9: this gentleman, the gentleman from last night, was not even

370
00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:57,520
Speaker 9: identified as a suspect. He was identified as an individual

371
00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:02,840
Speaker 9: being detained. So I don't think he has a claim

372
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:07,760
Speaker 9: based on what we know right now, provided he was

373
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:13,080
Speaker 9: not defamed and information that was put out was somewhat

374
00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:16,080
Speaker 9: truthful at the time. That's the key to the whole thing.

375
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:18,200
Speaker 9: It's not a Richard Jewell situation.

376
00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:20,359
Speaker 5: Now. A lot of people think about Richard Jewell.

377
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:25,119
Speaker 9: The nineteen ninety six suspect in the Atlanta Olympic bombings.

378
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:29,240
Speaker 9: You remember that now, absolutely remember that the government, this

379
00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:31,600
Speaker 9: was a man who was originally identified as a hero.

380
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:36,080
Speaker 9: The government tap danced on this guy's rights, named him

381
00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,280
Speaker 9: not only a suspect. I mean they out and out

382
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:43,640
Speaker 9: accused Richard Jewel and ruined his life. That's a different situation.

383
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,280
Speaker 9: That's the exception, not necessarily the rule.

384
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:48,520
Speaker 10: Jared.

385
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:50,159
Speaker 3: I have a follow up on that.

386
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:55,960
Speaker 6: We were talking last segment about if police come and search,

387
00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:58,000
Speaker 6: they have a search weren't so they have that in

388
00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,679
Speaker 6: their pockets and they come and let's call it a

389
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:03,840
Speaker 6: very thorough search, and let's call it your couch is busted,

390
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:06,640
Speaker 6: and so are mirrors, et cetera. Do you have any

391
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:12,240
Speaker 6: claims to damages or are you just yeah, what legally happens.

392
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,280
Speaker 9: Well, when my kids used to play in the toy room,

393
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:18,080
Speaker 9: I used to say, it looked like somebody served a

394
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,400
Speaker 9: search warrant. You know, the stuff was all over the place, right,

395
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:26,240
Speaker 9: That's what it looks like, Drawers pulled out, baskets dumped over. Right,

396
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:31,280
Speaker 9: There's just no stone left unturned. If what was done

397
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:35,679
Speaker 9: and the up ending that was done was likely to

398
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,440
Speaker 9: lead to discoverable evidence, then no. If you can show

399
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,760
Speaker 9: there was deliberate damage or malfeasance on the part of

400
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:47,640
Speaker 9: the police, If they're smashing mirrors for no reason, then

401
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 9: a creative lawyer could make a claim and say, what

402
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:54,119
Speaker 9: did that have to do with looking for drugs in

403
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,960
Speaker 9: the house? You know, are drugs likely to be contained

404
00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:01,080
Speaker 9: in there? Why was that smashed? But it's assured. Police

405
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:05,840
Speaker 9: can cut open upholstery, pull out drawers, they dump them.

406
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,720
Speaker 9: It is not a clean or it is a messy

407
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:11,639
Speaker 9: situation at the end of a search warrant.

408
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,640
Speaker 2: Wow, that is a really scary experience. I can only

409
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:18,800
Speaker 2: imagine if you just get a thunk at the door

410
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:22,400
Speaker 2: and somebody just comes in and starts tearing through your home.

411
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:24,639
Speaker 4: In order to get a search warrant, you have to

412
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,200
Speaker 4: get a judge to sign off on it, right, Jarrett.

413
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 5: Right, and you have to establish probable cause. So before

414
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:32,639
Speaker 5: that can happen, we have.

415
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:36,639
Speaker 9: To show in the United States of America, we've established

416
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 9: before a judge that right is so sacricinct, you know,

417
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:45,560
Speaker 9: reaching that door, going into that home, your private space

418
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,919
Speaker 9: is so private and so constitutionally protected. A judge has

419
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,680
Speaker 9: to actually look at the facts and sign off on

420
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,520
Speaker 9: it before the right to go in there and look

421
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 9: and every nook and cranny is granted.

422
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,119
Speaker 3: So what do we think the probable cause? Wass Can

423
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 3: we speculate?

424
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,879
Speaker 5: Well, I can speculate there's some connection to Tucson. He

425
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,680
Speaker 5: was the delivery driver. He said he was up that way.

426
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:13,879
Speaker 9: He certainly matches the physical description of the individual, at

427
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:17,400
Speaker 9: least his eyes, his mouth area. That's what I observed

428
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,399
Speaker 9: this morning when I turned on the television and he

429
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 9: was being interviewed. Beyond that, we may not know what

430
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 9: facts they had about this individual that drew him into

431
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,680
Speaker 9: their web, because that warrant will be under sealed. Here's

432
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 9: why there's facts in that warrant that aren't public yet.

433
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 9: Perhaps there was a vehicle that was identified nearby, things

434
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:45,200
Speaker 9: of that nature that are not public yet, but we all.

435
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 2: Do maybe it's his vehicle. But his guy was wearing

436
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,440
Speaker 2: a mask. You know, when I hear people talking, it

437
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 2: sounds like we can see his face. I don't really see,

438
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:59,119
Speaker 2: not really anything. Even his eyes look like they're infrared

439
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 2: seeing it correctly, what.

440
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 3: Should I be looking for?

441
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 2: People have like even the facial hair. I'm like, okay,

442
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:09,360
Speaker 2: But like says everybody by that description, literally every man

443
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 2: that I'm looking at, even in this moment.

444
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:13,359
Speaker 3: In this moment, I mean.

445
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 4: Have a mustag, you're in plain sight way and you

446
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:23,159
Speaker 4: know I've.

447
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,679
Speaker 3: Seen this go down on TV. Yeah, he was waiting

448
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:26,399
Speaker 3: for the moment.

449
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 4: I think it's going to be that the guy was working,

450
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 4: you know, possibly he said he does delivery drive, he

451
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 4: works up in Tucson. And I think the probable cause

452
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:40,920
Speaker 4: could be a speculation alert allegedly allegedly allegedly, you know,

453
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 4: they pulled the AT and T towers whatever, and this

454
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 4: guy's phone and car were on like surveillance. His car

455
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 4: was on surveillance somewhere maybe the circle k right, and

456
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 4: his phone was in the area, and I think.

457
00:24:58,960 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 5: A physical description.

458
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 9: But the way these things work to a little inside baseball,

459
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 9: when you're drafting in these investigations, you draft the affidavit

460
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 9: a probable cause, and let's just say it's a three

461
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 9: or four page affidavit. Pages two, one, two, and three

462
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 9: are typically the same pages as you continue the case.

463
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 9: So that's why even the search warrant that led to

464
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 9: the arrest of this individual or the detention of this

465
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 9: individual will likely remain under seal because there is this

466
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,440
Speaker 9: boilerplate language that's likely going to be in as the

467
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:38,440
Speaker 9: case moves forward, provided that information remains relevant. But body,

468
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 9: I think you're right. Cell phone, vehicle, physical description, and

469
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,919
Speaker 9: maybe one or two little facts, yeah, might have been

470
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 9: enough in the mindset of Nancy, maybe alive.

471
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 5: We got to get to her, let's get in there.

472
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 5: So I think that's probably what did it.

473
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

474
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 4: And if I was a judge and law enforcement and

475
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 4: AFFI it comes to me and they have these facts,

476
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 4: like we see the cars on the Circle K camera

477
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 4: like a mile from her home, his phone turned on,

478
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 4: he was on the phone, you know, his SIM card,

479
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 4: you know whatever. I would be like, yeah, okay, so

480
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 4: I'd probably sign that weren't right, wouldn't you, guys?

481
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 9: There was a part of there was a part of

482
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 9: me though, when when I heard this morning he was released.

483
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 9: I lost a little bit of hope here. I started

484
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,880
Speaker 9: to say, my god, if we're taking in the wrong guy,

485
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 9: we're nowhere near as far along as I certainly hoped,

486
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 9: and I know all of you have hoped. But it's hard,

487
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 9: you know, when you have four thousand leads coming in

488
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 9: or tips coming in over the past day and a

489
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 9: half the answer could be there already. They just got

490
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 9: to get through this stuff. It's just the process of elimination.

491
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 2: Right, And and I'm sure sorry, Boddy, go please no.

492
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 2: I was just going to say, in your experience, have

493
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 2: you covered any cases that have any crossover to this

494
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 2: in some way? It seems like it's it's so uniquely

495
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 2: in the public right now. I think we all First

496
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 2: of all, I think it's such a beautiful thing that

497
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 2: the whole country and world cares so so much about

498
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 2: Nancy's safe return. I think we all like needed someplace

499
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 2: to really toss our empathy. Also, right for the Guthrie family,

500
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 2: is there like anything that we can be thinking about

501
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 2: from a legal perspective that's pretty you.

502
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,880
Speaker 9: Know, just when you thought you've seen it all right, right,

503
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 9: this comes along Like I could tell you this. I've

504
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 9: handled hundreds, if not thousands of cases nothing like this.

505
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,360
Speaker 9: And then add to it the fame of Savannah Guthrie, Right,

506
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 9: who's sweeter than Savannah gut Thrie every day?

507
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,439
Speaker 5: I don't know are people that know where but all

508
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 5: good things?

509
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:40,679
Speaker 3: Right?

510
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 9: The problem here is to me, it creates a new

511
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 9: vulnerability for the attendant. People in the lives of celebrities

512
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 9: and the lives of like all of a sudden, your

513
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 9: mom's in danger because you're you're a well known person,

514
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 9: Like these are the kind of things that you start

515
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,360
Speaker 9: to say to yourself, like, my god, I did sign

516
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 9: on for this.

517
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 5: That's for sure.

518
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:04,120
Speaker 3: No, it's very very true.

519
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 2: And then add the layer of bitcoin and sort of

520
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 2: the whole world is sort of learning about bitcoin.

521
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 3: And you know, is that how you launder money? Is

522
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 3: this not how you launder money?

523
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 2: We're seeing things kind of happening and unfolding real time,

524
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 2: and for community like ours that we all want justice

525
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 2: and want to use investigative skills to make the world better,

526
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 2: this is like scratching everybody's everything, which also can be

527
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 2: troublesome because yeah, it maybe it backs up law enforcement

528
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:35,159
Speaker 2: with too many tips.

529
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,239
Speaker 3: Right, we have another, we have another talk back. Can

530
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 3: we please let's do it?

531
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 5: Right?

532
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 8: The FBI release images of a masked person at Nancy's home.

533
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 3: From a legal standpoint, what goes into that decision?

534
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 8: Could releasing those images ever complicate a future prosecution?

535
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 3: Good question, that's great question.

536
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 4: I don't know about this the latter part, and I speak,

537
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 4: let Jared speak to that. You know, could this hinder

538
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 4: any execution? But what goes into the FBI releasing those images.

539
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 9: Well, my times of the essence here, right, So you

540
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 9: have a picture of this individual and they're hoping that

541
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 9: the clothing the gate, that the walk of this person

542
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 9: triggers somebody. They're going to say, hey, that's Bob. You know,

543
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 9: Bob walks that way and he has that coat. Remember

544
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 9: you know when you think about the Down the Hill

545
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 9: murders in Indiana where the kids, all you had was

546
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 9: a video of a man walking okay, and he was

547
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 9: recognized and ultimately led to his prosecution. That's the kind

548
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 9: of thing that could trigger somebody's memory. So the FBI

549
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 9: makes a very very big decision there and saying it's

550
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 9: time to release this. It's time to see if this

551
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 9: triggers anyone, And the calls have started to come in

552
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 9: the downside of that may be down the road when

553
00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 9: an individual is truly a suspect and identified, his lawyers

554
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 9: may say there was witness contamination, the tips were tainted

555
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 9: by the video, things of that nature. But when you

556
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 9: do that balance the good parts and the benefits of

557
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 9: releasing that far outweigh the risks.

558
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 6: But can I ask a follow up on that, Does

559
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 6: that defend? Does that argument ever work? I mean, if

560
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 6: I robbed a bank and they put my picture out

561
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 6: and then I was brought into custody and said no, no,

562
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 6: but you put my picture out, does that argument work?

563
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 5: Well?

564
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 9: Hopefully the picture they put out was of the person

565
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 9: that robbed the bank. Now, in this situation, the only

566
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 9: risk could be some kind of prejudice to the defendant.

567
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 9: But that's I mean, how could in this situation You

568
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 9: have a masked man on the porch, clearly in the

569
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 9: middle of the night, at the moment she was taken,

570
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:55,959
Speaker 9: So there is no real downside.

571
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think it tells us a lot about

572
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 4: the investigation too. They don't know who this guy is.

573
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 4: This guy maybe he was a decoy for They have

574
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 4: no idea who has her.

575
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 5: Well, they certainly didn't last night. Hopefully they know more tonight.

576
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 4: Oh it's so scary too, And I mean, I mean

577
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 4: it really is scary. This is like a nightmare fuel

578
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 4: for me. You know, this is this poor woman in

579
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 4: this crazy mask the guy and I at first thought,

580
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 4: you know, maybe this is somebody that knows her.

581
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 3: I don't know anymore.

582
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 2: So the Murdoch case if you guys aren't conversant. In

583
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 2: the Alec Murdoch case of the murder of his beloved

584
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 2: wife and younger son, he has one remaining son and

585
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 2: he claims his innocence. This guy turns out to be

586
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 2: a bit of a local scoundrel if I'm remembering correctly,

587
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 2: hurting me armstrong.

588
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 3: And I mean to kill your own wife and son.

589
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 2: But this is one of those cases that it's so layered,

590
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 2: and we do have some questions because you know, he's

591
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 2: he's back in it, and Jared's going to answer. But Boddy,

592
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 2: do you want to like attempt a brief where.

593
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 3: Let's just have a conversation. Let's just have a quick conversation.

594
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 3: It's a juicy, juicy one. It is juicy.

595
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 4: So his murder, Alex, you know he was convicted of murder,

596
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 4: right well, they're being reviewed. His convictions are being reviewed

597
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 4: by the South Carolina Supreme Court. His lawyers are arguing

598
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 4: today in fact that he didn't receive a fair trial.

599
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 4: Alex Murdall, he's once a well known South Carolina lawyer.

600
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 4: He comes from a really powerful legal family, and in

601
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 4: twenty twenty one he ran all these long running financial

602
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 4: like kind of scam crimes right while they were coming

603
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 4: to light. Right, And in March of twenty twenty three,

604
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 4: he was convicted for the twenty twenty one murders of

605
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 4: his wife Maggie and son Paul.

606
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 3: Paul. Yeah, exactly.

607
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 4: So from night teen twenty to two thousand and six,

608
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 4: three generations of the Murdall family served as elected prosecutors.

609
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 4: So this is like a you know, a really long

610
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 4: upstanding family in the south, right. You know they're all

611
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 4: they're all lawyers. You have to understand, right, it's like.

612
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 3: A low country Yeah, low country dynasty.

613
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 6: They run absolutely had their pause in every facet of

614
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 6: everything going on, financially, legally, prosecutorially.

615
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 4: Didn't they call it like Murdoll country down there? Yeah,

616
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 4: they were kind of celebrities in that regard. Barrier didn't

617
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 4: say the family was a big deal. And you know, listen,

618
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 4: Alec Murdoch, like him, hate him. This was a real

619
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 4: affable guy, right, He was a lawyer. He was very

620
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 4: charismatic by by many accounts, a real man about town,

621
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 4: a good old boy.

622
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 7: Right.

623
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 4: So in early twenty twenty one, he secretly stole millions

624
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 4: of dollars from his clients, laundered that money, committed like

625
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 4: insurance fraud, and he had like an opioid addiction on.

626
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 3: Top of it all. Yeah, he was a raging draaddict,

627
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 3: all right.

628
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 4: And so by the springtime of twenty twenty one, his

629
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 4: law firm noticed finally these missing funds and an upcoming

630
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 4: court hearing that was scheduled, you know, threatened to expose him.

631
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 4: Right While investigators later discovered he had stole more than

632
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 4: twelve million dollars from clients, including settlement funds for injured

633
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 4: people and families of the deceased. He faced dozens of

634
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 4: state charges and fragile charges for fraud, money laundering, and conspiracy.

635
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 4: So comes June seventh of twenty twenty one, he called

636
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 4: nine one one reporting his He found his wife, Maggie,

637
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 4: she was fifty two years old, and his son Paul,

638
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 4: he was only twenty two, shot near the dog kennels

639
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:58,319
Speaker 4: at their hunting estate. Because again, this is a really

640
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 4: powerful family. This isn't a state they've got right.

641
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 2: But yeah, but one thing, Papa, the son that was

642
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 2: going to be that had just been murdered, was also

643
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 2: about to go to trial because he had he was

644
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:14,320
Speaker 2: driving a boat drunken allegedly and many lost their lives

645
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:18,319
Speaker 2: of his buddies, so one of them specifically was going

646
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 2: to Now the trial was going to begin of the

647
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 2: death of one of nineteen year old partygoers, nineteen year

648
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 2: old exactly that Papa was now being accused of manslaughter.

649
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 2: So this guy a drug addict, lots of money problems,

650
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 2: and has this impeding trial coming up with his son.

651
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 6: That's also ruining the reputation of his family, which is

652
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 6: everything to them, everything.

653
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 4: Okay, So now that you know, Okay, So Maggie was

654
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 4: like threatening divorce and there was a lot going on

655
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 4: in the family.

656
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 3: But let's get to the appeal. Okay.

657
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 4: So he was convicted, all right. There was famously the

658
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,360
Speaker 4: snapchat video from the kennels. You guys have to go

659
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 4: watch the trial. Please go watch it because this is

660
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 4: going to be important. Well, the clerk of the court

661
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 4: that was in the trial handling things for the court.

662
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 4: You're never going to believe this, you guys. She has

663
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 4: like a sworn duty, right, She was showing sealed exhibits

664
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 4: to reporters, and she was writing a book. She was

665
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,240
Speaker 4: writing a book during the trial about the trial.

666
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 3: Can't do that.

667
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 4: So the lawyers are using. That's my understanding of the appeal.

668
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 4: And thankfully we have Jarrett here to tell me if

669
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 4: I'm wrong or not. But you know, she was hoping

670
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,320
Speaker 4: like a guilty verdict in the trial would help sell

671
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 4: her book. And so that's like a that's like an

672
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,240
Speaker 4: appealable offense. I what I'm meant, you know, is that right, Jarrett?

673
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 5: I think? So we're talking about Becky Hill, Becky Hill clerk.

674
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 9: She was the person that walk the murdered jury in

675
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 9: and out every day, and she was in charge of

676
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 9: them behind the scenes. I think she did actually write

677
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 9: a book, a pretty bad book, quite honestly. But the

678
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:18,919
Speaker 9: major violation she committed was she commented on the veracity

679
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 9: and the credibility of Murdoch's Murdock's testimony that she basically said, like,

680
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 9: don't believe him, or you know, watch don't believe his

681
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 9: crocodile tears, things of that nature.

682
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 3: And here's what she said. One look, really quick, here's

683
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:34,279
Speaker 3: what she said.

684
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,360
Speaker 4: She was walking the jury to their seats before the

685
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 4: defense began, and she said, the defense is about to

686
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 4: do their side. Don't let them confuse you or convince

687
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 4: you or throw you off.

688
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 5: So and she's imbued with all the authority of the court.

689
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,239
Speaker 9: So her making that statement, let me, if I'm the

690
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 9: prosecutor on that case and went through everything to get

691
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 9: to that point, I would want to strangle that woman.

692
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:04,800
Speaker 5: Of course I can't.

693
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:11,320
Speaker 9: That is a huge problem and Dick Carpullian, Murdaw's lawyer,

694
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 9: has been going crazy with this issue since.

695
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:19,280
Speaker 5: Weeks after the trial because it happened interviewed the jurors.

696
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 9: Anytime jurors are getting interviewed after a trial, or being

697
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 9: brought back into testify or providing affid David's is not

698
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 9: a good thing.

699
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:29,879
Speaker 5: I mean, it's bad, It's bad news.

700
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 9: However, that doesn't necessarily change the fact the question that

701
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 9: jurors would have to have been asked absent Becky Hill's statement,

702
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 9: would you have ruled differently in the case of Alec Murdau?

703
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 5: And when you look at the case, a judge on.

704
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 9: The appellate court could say, looking at everything in this case,

705
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 9: his performance, the evidence of his voice set down at

706
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:57,799
Speaker 9: the kennels when he said he wasn't there at them,

707
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:02,479
Speaker 9: essentially everything else that was going on in his life.

708
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 9: He still would have been convicted but for that statement

709
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 9: and not every jur or heard that statement that these

710
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 9: are I think there were two that went on record

711
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 9: and said she said something like that, and that one

712
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 9: said they considered it. Somebody else said it really didn't

713
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 9: have an impact on them, at least that's when it

714
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 9: was initially reported.

715
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 5: So this is a big issue. It's not likely to

716
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 5: overturn the case.

717
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,399
Speaker 4: And as a just as a side note, Becky Hill,

718
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 4: the clerk, she pluged guilty in this, so she did

719
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 4: plead guilty. She I think she got like three years

720
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 4: probation for this.

721
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 5: She got a probationary sense, she.

722
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,279
Speaker 4: Got a probationary sense. Yeah, so she is guilty of this,

723
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 4: so she admits it. I mean, she doesn't really have

724
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 4: a choice at this point. But so the the you

725
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,360
Speaker 4: to your point, jar At, the defense attorney for Alec Murdall,

726
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 4: his name is Dick Carpoolatin.

727
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 5: How do you say it for pulling Carpoolian?

728
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 4: Thank you listen, I'm not the best, okay at the

729
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 4: pronunciation said, but they don't need to prove actual influence

730
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 4: on the verdict, only that the former court clerk Becky

731
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 4: Hill's statements could have reasonably affected jurors.

732
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:11,799
Speaker 3: Now and this goes to like psychology.

733
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 4: I think, can you really look back on a decision

734
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 4: that you've made and say, yeah, I was influenced by

735
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 4: that comment.

736
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 3: I mean, can you really do that like effectively? Can you?

737
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 5: Well, they're not going to be asked that though.

738
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 9: That's the question is whether those jurors were when you

739
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 9: say that reasonableness word in the law.

740
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 5: Here's the hint.

741
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:35,280
Speaker 9: Anytime you hear the word reasonableness, it's no longer about

742
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 9: the person, it's about this fake reasonable person. So they're

743
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,880
Speaker 9: going to be asking what a reasonable person let the

744
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 9: statement of Becky Hill affect their decision on the case.

745
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:49,799
Speaker 9: That's the question, and that's the question the judges are

746
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 9: going to be wrestling with. So it almost doesn't matter

747
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 9: what those jurors said, it's what a reasonable person would do.

748
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 9: So Carpullian says the standard correctly. I think it's a

749
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 9: tougher burden if he had jurors saying and slining out

750
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 9: for David saying, hey, whatever miss Hill said, we bought

751
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 9: hook line and sinker.

752
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 5: Different case.

753
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,360
Speaker 9: A reasonable person would say, we sat for this trial

754
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:15,399
Speaker 9: for weeks and weeks and weeks. We listened to all

755
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 9: this evidence, we watched him testify, we found him guilty,

756
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 9: and Becky Hill's one off statement didn't really carry the

757
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 9: day for us.

758
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:28,359
Speaker 5: Of a reasonable person wouldn't feel that way.

759
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 3: I don't know. I hear what you're saying. I'm going

760
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 3: to courtney here.

761
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 7: Yeah.

762
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 6: I think that's a word I can't say on air.

763
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 6: That is blown be unreasonable.

764
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 2: If I was being held and I was now found

765
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 2: guilty for a crime, and the woman who was in

766
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 2: charge to be impartial started writing a book about the

767
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 2: ongoings that, who was so integrated if something is reasonable?

768
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:58,800
Speaker 2: I would like to see the sample of reasonable people

769
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 2: in today's day age that should be deciding that. For me, Well,

770
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 2: this guy I believe is guilty.

771
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 3: So you know I do too. I think he's guilty.

772
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 9: But I do think the other thing you should consider too.

773
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 9: In addition to what a reasonable person would do. A

774
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:19,280
Speaker 9: jury is instructed over and over again not to consider

775
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,239
Speaker 9: certain things. Only consider the evidence you see in here

776
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 9: in the courtroom. So, and you know, quite honestly, that

777
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 9: environment becomes when you're in that environment with the jurors,

778
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,840
Speaker 9: in the in the court personnel, it becomes much more relaxed.

779
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:39,280
Speaker 9: People say stupid things, and again it's a really stupid

780
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 9: thing what she said. But at the same time, these

781
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:43,879
Speaker 9: folks got to know Becky Hill.

782
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:47,880
Speaker 11: You know, it's not like they write so in that sense,

783
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 11: a casual statement may not be given the weight it

784
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 11: looks like it would have on paper.

785
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 9: That's really the way it kind of played out in

786
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 9: my mind. Doesn't mean it was wrong. Does it mean

787
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:04,239
Speaker 9: she's not foolish for what she did. I just think

788
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 9: looking at the reality of the situation, I don't think

789
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 9: her statement ambiguous statement carried the day and allowed for

790
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 9: them to not consider the defense and convict.

791
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 5: Alec Murtin, right.

792
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:20,280
Speaker 4: I think though, when you combine it with other things

793
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 4: that happened. There was no physical evidence. They never recovered

794
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:29,240
Speaker 4: the murder weapons, there was no DNA, no blood recover.

795
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 3: You know, there was no physical evidence.

796
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:35,720
Speaker 4: And when you add in the defense is also saying

797
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 4: that the trial allowed excessive financial crime evidence, which prejudiced

798
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:43,319
Speaker 4: the jury against Alec. When you combine those three things,

799
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 4: I think they might.

800
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:48,720
Speaker 9: Have like a so, I agree those aren't small issues,

801
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 9: But when you look at the financial crime evidence that

802
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:53,879
Speaker 9: came in, it was his motive for murder. You see

803
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:58,919
Speaker 9: Alex Murda's House of cards was falling down. His law firm,

804
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 9: he MPD was the law firm, if I'm remembering correctly.

805
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 9: They confronted him around the time of the murders. Basically

806
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:09,719
Speaker 9: the gig was up. They figured out what Alec was doing,

807
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 9: and he had the weight of what Paul had done

808
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:18,360
Speaker 9: and the depth of Mallory. Right, he had the shame

809
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 9: of the family hanging over him. He was hopelessly addicted

810
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 9: to painkillers and his source of money, the law firm

811
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 9: was falling apart, and his father passed away, so he

812
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:33,360
Speaker 9: had all this stuff going on. His mother had Alzheimer,

813
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 9: So the financial crimes at that time were part of

814
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:37,800
Speaker 9: the motive.

815
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:38,800
Speaker 5: So they come in.

816
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:41,840
Speaker 9: We've talked about four or four B evidence, right, we

817
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 9: talked about bad stuff coming in your case for another crime.

818
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:50,240
Speaker 9: If it's related to the crime, it's part of the motive,

819
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:52,320
Speaker 9: it's part of the chain of events, it's part of

820
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 9: the story. It's evidence, and I think any day of

821
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 9: the week, a superior court, a Supreme court is going

822
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 9: to uphold that much any stuff coming in.

823
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 7: Hmm.

824
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 6: Interesting. We only have a couple of minutes left on this,

825
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 6: But I had a question for you. Stephanie had pointed

826
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:12,320
Speaker 6: out during the break. How compelling Alec murder I was

827
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 6: on the stand, and he was, of course so interesting, captivating.

828
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:20,279
Speaker 6: You know, being a trial attorney, I have to think

829
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:22,800
Speaker 6: gives you a huge leg up. So, Jared, if you

830
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,720
Speaker 6: were on trial for something, would you take the stand

831
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 6: in your own defense?

832
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 3: Big question? It deserves like a drum roll.

833
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:33,800
Speaker 6: You know.

834
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 9: I can't imagine if I was unable to work the

835
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 9: case out and took the trial. I can't imagine. I

836
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:43,759
Speaker 9: wouldn't want to put myself on the stand.

837
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 3: And tell myself you would, of course you would.

838
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 5: I couldn't imagine it because I just never sits well

839
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 5: with me when somebody doesn't take a stand, and.

840
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 9: Someone like myself and like yourselves, were familiar with so

841
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:02,239
Speaker 9: many cases been in the courtroom, maybe you have that

842
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 9: comfort level. You can't rely on anybody else to tell

843
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 9: your story. You got to go up there and tell

844
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 9: it yourself.

845
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:09,239
Speaker 3: It reads, you know.

846
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 2: Authenticity, I think is so impossible to have relayed. You know,

847
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:16,360
Speaker 2: even if some of the facts are wrong, if somebody

848
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:19,920
Speaker 2: is one hundred percent just giving their authentic version, I

849
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 2: don't know I would take the stand.

850
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 4: I would be so worried about getting crossed that I

851
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 4: would be so nervous that I know I would mess up.

852
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:30,399
Speaker 6: I know I would not, you know, so I think

853
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:33,479
Speaker 6: that's where I would fall too, be too concerned about

854
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 6: being cross examoned.

855
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 5: A prosecutors people more nervous too, exactly.

856
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 6: I don't want to be crossed by you. Well, stick around,

857
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:43,840
Speaker 6: Jarrett Farantino will be doing so. You will not be

858
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 6: cross examining any of us, hopefully, but we will all

859
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 6: be talking about Karen Read's email.

860
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 3: Sparks are flying in this civil case, and we'd love

861
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 3: to hear from you. True Crimson.

862
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:10,880
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We've been

863
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:14,799
Speaker 2: talking true crime all the time. We already swung through

864
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 2: the first hour, so if you missed any of it,

865
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 2: please check us out right after as a podcast. You

866
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:23,880
Speaker 2: can also join us live as you well know eight

867
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 2: eight eight three one Crime and keep the talkbacks coming.

868
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 2: We are searching for your opinions, no matter what they are.

869
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:35,400
Speaker 2: So we have Jarrett Farantino with us right now. Obviously,

870
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 2: are our prosecutor here to answer any legal questions because

871
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 2: they're mounting Jarrett. In many many cases, I might add,

872
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 2: Alec Murdoch, we were just talking about that fiasco. On

873
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 2: to Karen Reid. I suppose right, So she is back

874
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:55,399
Speaker 2: in court and may have made a really big email error.

875
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 6: Living nightmare so read she did such a human things.

876
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:08,320
Speaker 6: She accidentally pressed reply all to an email. This happened

877
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 6: at the end of last year, end of twenty twenty five,

878
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:15,840
Speaker 6: and that has there's now a whole legal clash in

879
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:20,560
Speaker 6: her ongoing legal excuse me, ongoing civil lawsuits, and it's

880
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 6: raising a lot of questions about attorney client privilege which

881
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:24,800
Speaker 6: were so psyched.

882
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 3: Jarrett Farantino can help us out with.

883
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,440
Speaker 6: So if you need a reminder of who Karen Reid is,

884
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:34,400
Speaker 6: she was a defendant who was found not guilty of

885
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 6: murdering her boyfriend, a really upstanding police officer who died

886
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 6: named John O'Keefe, and Karen Reid was put on trial

887
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 6: twice for his murder and it was alleged that she

888
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 6: prosecution alleged that she backed her SUV into him, knowingly

889
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:56,320
Speaker 6: left him in the snow to die, and fled the scene.

890
00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 6: And the first trial there was it was a deadlock,

891
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:04,440
Speaker 6: so there was no verdict, and then in the second

892
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:06,320
Speaker 6: trial she was acquitted.

893
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 2: So and everybody really disliked her right Worth, noting she

894
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 2: like suffered with likability issues. You know, Karen Reid familiar

895
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 2: to me. I like Boston, I like her her cold directness.

896
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:23,359
Speaker 2: But you know, we're talking about a police officer who

897
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 2: lost his life, and she was certainly not warm and

898
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:29,840
Speaker 2: fuzzy and crying in the courtroom.

899
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:34,240
Speaker 6: And I feel like that didn't help. No, it certainly

900
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 6: did not help. I mean, this was one of the

901
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:41,920
Speaker 6: most divisive cases in my recent memory in terms of

902
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:47,840
Speaker 6: people sort of taking it personally. When another person outside

903
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:51,080
Speaker 6: the case disagreed with their point of view.

904
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:52,320
Speaker 3: People will get into fights.

905
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,240
Speaker 4: I feel she was wildly It's like the most drawid

906
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:59,120
Speaker 4: case I've ever witnessed. And from a social media perspective,

907
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:02,000
Speaker 4: I couldn't even say the name Karen Reid without eighty

908
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:05,360
Speaker 4: six comments saying I was wrong for the pronunciation, Like

909
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:06,360
Speaker 4: it was crazy.

910
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:10,560
Speaker 6: Jared, what do you think, by the way, what drives that,

911
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 6: you know, mob mentality around certain cases.

912
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:17,160
Speaker 9: The Karen Reid case. I think what drove it was

913
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 9: Karen read. I mean, she wasn't just ice.

914
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 5: She was defiant, like she would scratch her eyes out.

915
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:25,920
Speaker 9: Like she was.

916
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 2: A little bit, just a little bit a little bit

917
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:33,120
Speaker 2: where she was like, why the heck, Why the f

918
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:36,919
Speaker 2: do I have to be grieving? My life is being

919
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 2: wrecked right now. I'm being accused of a crime I

920
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 2: didn't commit. Why am I not getting all.

921
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:43,879
Speaker 3: The pats on the back. I feel like that's where

922
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:44,839
Speaker 3: she was coming from.

923
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 9: I also felt like it was a purview into the

924
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 9: nightmare that John o'keith lived as her boyfriend for those couples.

925
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 3: Possibly, but she she loved that father.

926
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:55,440
Speaker 9: Though.

927
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:58,360
Speaker 2: I will say one thing that I will think always

928
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:02,120
Speaker 2: brought her such human I think was seeing her with

929
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:02,640
Speaker 2: her dad.

930
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:04,759
Speaker 3: Her dad was so crazy about her. Remember he would

931
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:06,359
Speaker 3: talk about her. He gets choked up every time.

932
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 5: I'm afraid.

933
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:10,799
Speaker 3: There's no question she loved him.

934
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:12,319
Speaker 5: Her dad loves her.

935
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 9: And but here's the thing. I look at this inadvertent email.

936
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:18,439
Speaker 9: Now there's a part of Karen Reid in my mind

937
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:20,279
Speaker 9: that's just dying to get the truth out.

938
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 5: I don't know why.

939
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:25,800
Speaker 9: I just think, like, but when you look at this situation,

940
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:30,279
Speaker 9: this is an inadvertent by all accounts, disclosure of a

941
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:35,040
Speaker 9: confidential communication. You know, the attorney client privilege is something

942
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 9: that very recently I was looking at the case where

943
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:42,960
Speaker 9: lawyers knew where previous victims of a serial killer's bodies

944
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 9: were buried, and they actually went and found the bodies, okay,

945
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:50,839
Speaker 9: And they could not disclose that information because it came

946
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 9: from their client. And that's the case that the attorney

947
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 9: client privilege is tested at its limits. That shows you

948
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:04,839
Speaker 9: how how sacricynct and protected that relationship is. So when

949
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:09,360
Speaker 9: you have a disclosure like this question becomes how do

950
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 9: you waive it? You can disclose information to a third

951
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:16,840
Speaker 9: party purposefully, okay, or you can act in a manner

952
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:20,840
Speaker 9: inconsistent with someone who is looking to maintain this confidence?

953
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:25,480
Speaker 5: Is what Karen Reid did hear that? I don't know,

954
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:27,320
Speaker 5: you know, a mass discuss what it is.

955
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:30,360
Speaker 2: So in case you don't know even what this email

956
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 2: was about, let's cut that. Let's court you give yes absolutely,

957
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 2: So with you know, the true trials we just talked about. Criminally,

958
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:42,800
Speaker 2: there's a lot of bad blood, which is an understatement,

959
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:48,759
Speaker 2: between Karen Reid and the victim, John O'Keeffe's family, for one,

960
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 2: And there are countersuits going around between Karen Reid and

961
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:59,959
Speaker 2: the O'Keeffe family, as well as other people who were present.

962
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 2: Isn't that evening who Karen Reads defense alleged they actually

963
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:06,640
Speaker 2: had to do with John O'Keefe's murder. So there's many

964
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 2: many people doing and a lot of them lied also

965
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 2: seemingly under oath Patrick in all kinds of facacta stories.

966
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:17,719
Speaker 3: On their side. So there's like shots fired on all

967
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:18,880
Speaker 3: sides exactly.

968
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 6: And so the O'Keefe, the victim's family's attorneys, they filed

969
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 6: a motion and they asked Karen Read to answer some

970
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:31,000
Speaker 6: more questions, and they said, hey, you haven't fully explained

971
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 6: who she thought was responsible for the victim, John O'Keefe's death.

972
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:40,000
Speaker 6: So one of Karen Read's attorneys replied to the motion

973
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:44,920
Speaker 6: and Karen Reid was BC seed on that email in

974
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 6: less than one hour. Karen Reid on accident, She did

975
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 6: not know she'd been bc seed. She hit reply all

976
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:56,840
Speaker 6: and she sent her own response to everyone on the thread.

977
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:02,799
Speaker 6: And so this is what's causing all of the questions

978
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:06,320
Speaker 6: because the content of the email is redacted in the

979
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 6: court filings. But the O'Keefe family is saying that it

980
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 6: includes factual allegations that are relevant and that it conflicted

981
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 6: with Reid's previous sworn statements.

982
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:23,960
Speaker 3: Oh no, oh yeah, So just.

983
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:26,360
Speaker 2: For like the for the dummy in the back of

984
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:29,960
Speaker 2: the room, My hand is up me too, So just

985
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:33,320
Speaker 2: for clarity. So Karen Reid, who I think was wrongly

986
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 2: accused my personal opinion, she was ultimately acquitted for John

987
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:43,040
Speaker 2: O'Keefe's death. We all can agree that Peggy O'Keeffe, victim

988
00:54:43,239 --> 00:54:49,200
Speaker 2: John's mom is like the greatest and heartbroken and everybody's

989
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:52,719
Speaker 2: like we our hearts are so with her. So, but

990
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:55,560
Speaker 2: that's a contentious They don't not like each other.

991
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:56,080
Speaker 9: They are on.

992
00:54:56,239 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 2: Opposite sides of this fight in a very real way

993
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 2: because they're trying to grieve whoa So, who is on

994
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 2: this list? I guess is the first question? Can we

995
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 2: say that? Can we speculate? I know they've been redacted, Well,

996
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:14,280
Speaker 2: who's on it matters?

997
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:15,720
Speaker 5: Stephanie. That's a good question.

998
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 9: So if she's hitting reply all, clearly it went to

999
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:25,680
Speaker 9: someone beyond that attorney client confidentiality, zone of trust, circle

1000
00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:28,160
Speaker 9: of trust like remember meet the parents, right, you're in

1001
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:32,120
Speaker 9: the circle of trust somehow, move back to those defense

1002
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:34,520
Speaker 9: attorneys or the plaintiff's attorneys in.

1003
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:36,279
Speaker 5: This case, because it's the civil case.

1004
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:41,640
Speaker 9: Now, Okay, so they have an unfettered, unfiltered response from

1005
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:42,399
Speaker 9: Karen Reed.

1006
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:46,440
Speaker 5: And then Karen Reid's lawyers immediately.

1007
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 9: Go to claw that back like they're trying to unring

1008
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:51,719
Speaker 9: the bell and say, oops, she didn't mean to send that.

1009
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:52,919
Speaker 5: Send it back.

1010
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:56,760
Speaker 9: You cannot use it because she believed in that moment

1011
00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:00,960
Speaker 9: her communication was insulated by the at any client privilege,

1012
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:02,680
Speaker 9: but you can't see it.

1013
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:06,920
Speaker 5: Her belief is important.

1014
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:10,960
Speaker 9: The context of this situation is important because in Massachusetts,

1015
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:13,440
Speaker 9: court is going to look at this and apply a test.

1016
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:17,200
Speaker 9: How did it happen, how quickly did her lawyers react,

1017
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:22,920
Speaker 9: what was the context of it? And I'm telling you court,

1018
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:26,600
Speaker 9: always the knee jerk reaction is to protect that privilege,

1019
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:27,920
Speaker 9: even in the most even in.

1020
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:30,759
Speaker 4: Civil court where it's not like, you know, she's going

1021
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:31,720
Speaker 4: to jail or anything.

1022
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:35,640
Speaker 9: So sander may be a little diminished for civil court,

1023
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:38,560
Speaker 9: still it's still paramount.

1024
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 4: So because she thought she was sending it to her attorneys,

1025
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:44,840
Speaker 4: and there would be like attorney client privilege, you know,

1026
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:49,200
Speaker 4: assuming that many other people who should not have read

1027
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:53,359
Speaker 4: this email read it, it's possible that the judge would say, well,

1028
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:57,880
Speaker 4: you know, she her intention was to maintain the privilege.

1029
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:00,239
Speaker 3: So we're going to not admit, you know, this is

1030
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:02,400
Speaker 3: not gonna be admissible. That's a potential.

1031
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:04,560
Speaker 2: It's correct, and maybe they would say she was just

1032
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:08,200
Speaker 2: answering off the cuff, you know, without her eyeglasses with

1033
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:09,000
Speaker 2: one hand.

1034
00:57:09,239 --> 00:57:11,160
Speaker 3: Thought she was just being like quick.

1035
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:15,120
Speaker 2: And easy about it, not realizing Peggy O'Keeffe and her

1036
00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 2: husband and you know, the people they're lawyer employing as lawyers.

1037
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:20,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, not so into it.

1038
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 2: That sort of showed a hand that you may they

1039
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:27,920
Speaker 2: now need to double down on. And if it's contradictory

1040
00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:31,040
Speaker 2: to what you've said also under oath at a different time,

1041
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:32,560
Speaker 2: that's problematic.

1042
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 3: This is your crime.

1043
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:36,920
Speaker 4: Tonight on iHeartRadio, we're right in the middle of talking

1044
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:40,360
Speaker 4: about this Karen read civil case in this email. So Pa,

1045
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:44,040
Speaker 4: let's say that Karen Reid made. If you have any questions,

1046
00:57:44,080 --> 00:57:45,640
Speaker 4: give us a call eighty eight to thirty one crime

1047
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:48,120
Speaker 4: or hit us on the talkbacks on the iHeartRadio app.

1048
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:52,040
Speaker 4: Jared I had a question. The filings note that the

1049
00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 4: judge could review this email privately in camera to decide

1050
00:57:56,680 --> 00:57:58,600
Speaker 4: whether it should be allowed or protect or not.

1051
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:00,520
Speaker 3: What does that mean in camera?

1052
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:00,880
Speaker 10: Do you know?

1053
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 9: So that means the judge reviews that in their chambers,

1054
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 9: not in the presence of anyone else, not in the presence.

1055
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:10,600
Speaker 5: Of any of the viewing public. They do that.

1056
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:14,680
Speaker 9: So the judge would have to know what this email

1057
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:19,480
Speaker 9: says to truly appreciate the totality of these circumstances, right,

1058
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:24,720
Speaker 9: he or she cannot say this is a confidential communication

1059
00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:28,160
Speaker 9: without knowing exactly what it says. So they'll But at

1060
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:30,920
Speaker 9: the same time they have to protect you know, this

1061
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:33,560
Speaker 9: thing is like a grenade. You know, if it gets out,

1062
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:36,320
Speaker 9: that statement's going to get out. So when something is

1063
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 9: of that nature, it's heard in camera, in chambers.

1064
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:43,040
Speaker 5: Of the judge, not in the public eye. So that's

1065
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:43,720
Speaker 5: what that means.

1066
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:45,160
Speaker 3: That makes sense.

1067
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:48,600
Speaker 6: I wanted to follow up on something Stephanie had said,

1068
00:58:48,680 --> 00:58:52,960
Speaker 6: actually and ask you, Jared, so, how problematic is it

1069
00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:58,280
Speaker 6: that what the O'Keefe family is alleging that she that

1070
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:03,720
Speaker 6: she used factual algations that are relevant and conflicted her

1071
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:07,600
Speaker 6: sworn statements. Is Karen Reid in trouble for conflicting her

1072
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:08,800
Speaker 6: sworn statements?

1073
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:13,760
Speaker 9: Well, so you think like a perjury type situation, Yeah,

1074
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:17,480
Speaker 9: something of that nature. See, the bottom line is not

1075
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:21,640
Speaker 9: likely because this statement is like a whisper to her lawyer.

1076
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:23,280
Speaker 5: That's how she has to treat it.

1077
00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:26,480
Speaker 9: And if you are just having a conversation with your lawyer,

1078
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:31,000
Speaker 9: she can't be prosecuted for having a conversation with her lawyer.

1079
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:32,440
Speaker 5: So if she says something that.

1080
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:36,640
Speaker 9: Is factually different, and again without knowing exactly what Karen

1081
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:39,000
Speaker 9: Reid said, it's kind of hard like if it was

1082
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:42,160
Speaker 9: an extreme difference where she said, no, I backed over John,

1083
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:42,880
Speaker 9: you know, with.

1084
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:45,760
Speaker 3: My lexus No, my goodness, can you imagine.

1085
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:50,160
Speaker 5: I mean, obviously she confessed, I would hope that's.

1086
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:50,840
Speaker 9: Not what she said.

1087
00:59:51,160 --> 00:59:53,920
Speaker 2: Obviously, but it's likely the people that were in the

1088
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:56,120
Speaker 2: house the day, the night that this happened, that were

1089
00:59:56,200 --> 01:00:00,280
Speaker 2: at this said after party. It's the Albert's home. It's

1090
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:03,760
Speaker 2: everybody that was there that suspicion was thrown at.

1091
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:04,320
Speaker 10: Period.

1092
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:09,360
Speaker 2: The end, it was there were many inconsistencies and this

1093
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:13,840
Speaker 2: particular police department didn't really size up when.

1094
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:16,480
Speaker 3: Put to the pressure test, you know, period.

1095
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:21,640
Speaker 2: So which is a shame because so many others around

1096
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:24,360
Speaker 2: their operate so differently.

1097
01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:27,000
Speaker 3: So this is a complicated one.

1098
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:31,280
Speaker 5: Well, and I look at this like what really there

1099
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:33,800
Speaker 5: were a lot of problems with that case. No doubt right.

1100
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:37,720
Speaker 9: And Stephanie, like you said, I mean you believe she

1101
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:40,320
Speaker 9: didn't do it. It almost doesn't matter.

1102
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:43,120
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter at all exactly, So, I mean, I

1103
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:45,400
Speaker 2: believe they did not prove it, correct.

1104
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:45,720
Speaker 3: I agree.

1105
01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:49,440
Speaker 9: The other thing was the Alberts. They never came outside.

1106
01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:53,080
Speaker 9: There's a police officer and your friend dead in your

1107
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:56,360
Speaker 9: front yard. You never come outside door.

1108
01:00:56,480 --> 01:00:58,840
Speaker 2: At your house like you were just with them at

1109
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:00,880
Speaker 2: the bar, and you old decide to drive back to

1110
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:03,880
Speaker 2: your home. No, they it appeared just based on what

1111
01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:06,880
Speaker 2: we've were I have no personal relationship to this, but

1112
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:09,640
Speaker 2: it appeared that there was some level of a cover

1113
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:13,520
Speaker 2: up happening that evening. And because it was so messy,

1114
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:15,959
Speaker 2: it was impossible to see through the mess.

1115
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:20,720
Speaker 9: And Alan Jackson, you can't take it away from Alan Jackson.

1116
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:26,720
Speaker 9: He represented Karen Reid. He fought them at every step.

1117
01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:29,920
Speaker 9: You know, he was angry every day. I don't know

1118
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:31,880
Speaker 9: if he was really angry, but I certainly got the

1119
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:35,480
Speaker 9: sense that he was angry in there, right.

1120
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:37,960
Speaker 5: And he's no joke, you know, And and that's something

1121
01:01:38,080 --> 01:01:42,160
Speaker 5: that jurors. I always say this to people.

1122
01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:45,600
Speaker 9: They may not remember what you say, but they will

1123
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:48,720
Speaker 9: remember how you make them feel and if you make

1124
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:53,400
Speaker 9: them feel like there has been a wrong your client right,

1125
01:01:53,480 --> 01:01:56,200
Speaker 9: and they're in a position to make it right. Boy,

1126
01:01:56,520 --> 01:01:58,479
Speaker 9: that's they're on a crusade at that point.

1127
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:05,480
Speaker 4: And here too, right, yes, yes, even the civil team,

1128
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:06,120
Speaker 4: Well that.

1129
01:02:06,200 --> 01:02:07,160
Speaker 3: Was smart, right.

1130
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:09,240
Speaker 4: I mean to keep him because he knows the case

1131
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:12,880
Speaker 4: better than anyone, so he's best to Yeah, he's a fortune,

1132
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:15,520
Speaker 4: Oh my god, a fortune. But he's made I mean,

1133
01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:17,439
Speaker 4: he's made a really great name for himself. I don't

1134
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:20,960
Speaker 4: know that he necessarily needs the money necessarily, but he's

1135
01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:21,800
Speaker 4: just a great lawyer.

1136
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:25,680
Speaker 3: Jarrett. Thank you so much for joining us Tonighting. It

1137
01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:27,040
Speaker 3: forward all week to.

1138
01:02:27,080 --> 01:02:30,000
Speaker 4: Having you here. Everybody loves having you. Anyone who wants

1139
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:32,360
Speaker 4: more Jarrett and who doesn't. You can follow him on

1140
01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:37,080
Speaker 4: social media at Jarrett Farentino on Instagram. You can also

1141
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:41,720
Speaker 4: pre order his upcoming book, Mothers, Murders and Motivation. It's

1142
01:02:41,840 --> 01:02:44,560
Speaker 4: out on the spring of twenty twenty six. And don't

1143
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:47,800
Speaker 4: go anywhere the Justice Department unredacts new names in the

1144
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:50,680
Speaker 4: Jeffrey Epstein Files. Keep it right here, True Grind Tonight.

1145
01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:04,560
Speaker 4: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight and iHeartRadio. We're talking

1146
01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:07,480
Speaker 4: true crime all the time staff here with Courtney and

1147
01:03:07,640 --> 01:03:12,320
Speaker 4: body and listen. Thank you jareded Farantino for answering our

1148
01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:15,800
Speaker 4: legal questions. He will definitely be back next week, so

1149
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:19,040
Speaker 4: make sure you tass us some talkbacks if you want

1150
01:03:19,120 --> 01:03:23,280
Speaker 4: us to start stashing them for his arrival next Wednesday.

1151
01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:27,640
Speaker 4: So the Epstein Files, I mean, where do we begin.

1152
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:29,960
Speaker 4: We've all been sort of tackling this.

1153
01:03:30,120 --> 01:03:33,520
Speaker 2: And when I say all of us, literally all of us,

1154
01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:37,000
Speaker 2: Adam included, Sam, raise your hand back there, because I

1155
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:38,760
Speaker 2: know you're paying attention to this too.

1156
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:40,280
Speaker 3: I mean, Adam has a.

1157
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:45,280
Speaker 2: Whole like real time crime line, if you will, and

1158
01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:48,800
Speaker 2: it's really helpful because you know, it's very difficult to

1159
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:53,160
Speaker 2: get through them without discerning what's being put in here

1160
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:55,560
Speaker 2: to freak us out beyond repair.

1161
01:03:55,920 --> 01:03:59,320
Speaker 3: What is political? What is truth?

1162
01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:03,640
Speaker 2: There's so many categories that even for me, who I

1163
01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:06,640
Speaker 2: feel like I've been following this very closely for such

1164
01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:07,840
Speaker 2: a long time, we all have.

1165
01:04:09,720 --> 01:04:09,760
Speaker 8: That.

1166
01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:14,440
Speaker 2: I don't want to be misleading in any way or

1167
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:17,000
Speaker 2: let my emotion sort of lead the ship on this.

1168
01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:20,400
Speaker 2: So keep me in check, please, and we're just going

1169
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:22,800
Speaker 2: to take it in chunks, because.

1170
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:25,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's.

1171
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:28,200
Speaker 2: Unfortunate because I think we're all feeling the same scary

1172
01:04:28,320 --> 01:04:31,280
Speaker 2: feeling of we know that there's been a lot of

1173
01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:35,080
Speaker 2: lies across more lies, and that there's more lies.

1174
01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:38,080
Speaker 3: Everyone has been lying.

1175
01:04:38,280 --> 01:04:42,480
Speaker 2: So the truth is, you know, we as a community

1176
01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:46,320
Speaker 2: and collective have been correct maybe pitted against each other

1177
01:04:46,680 --> 01:04:49,440
Speaker 2: so that we're so busy arguing that we're not noticing

1178
01:04:49,560 --> 01:04:53,720
Speaker 2: that there's this whole other world, this Epstein class of

1179
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:59,919
Speaker 2: humans who are really just using us as their reality show.

1180
01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:03,400
Speaker 3: You know, we've been groomed like we are.

1181
01:05:03,720 --> 01:05:06,400
Speaker 2: We are a part of the game at this point,

1182
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:09,240
Speaker 2: and I guess that's what's been super scary, because it

1183
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:14,880
Speaker 2: feels a little bit like unbelievable, honestly. So I'm sort

1184
01:05:14,920 --> 01:05:16,600
Speaker 2: of kind of coming to it of my own. So

1185
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:18,560
Speaker 2: we're going to just take it a little bit in chunks.

1186
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:21,520
Speaker 2: I think today was very important. In the last few

1187
01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:23,040
Speaker 2: days were extremely important.

1188
01:05:23,600 --> 01:05:23,960
Speaker 3: Today.

1189
01:05:24,240 --> 01:05:28,640
Speaker 2: Pam Bondi, the head of the DOJ, was in front

1190
01:05:28,680 --> 01:05:34,040
Speaker 2: of the oversight committee. Yes is the Attorney General also was,

1191
01:05:34,600 --> 01:05:38,560
Speaker 2: you know, infamously the one the blonde woman who who

1192
01:05:38,680 --> 01:05:41,800
Speaker 2: initially said, oh my goodness, the files are on my desk,

1193
01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:44,680
Speaker 2: all these files, look at all these files and then

1194
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:47,440
Speaker 2: very quickly after that was like, I didn't mean that

1195
01:05:47,560 --> 01:05:49,880
Speaker 2: there are no files, there's nothing to see here. And

1196
01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:55,040
Speaker 2: then suddenly Cash Patel, who had, you know, previously in

1197
01:05:55,120 --> 01:05:58,600
Speaker 2: his previous life spoken about how these files were going

1198
01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:01,760
Speaker 2: to be released, and then he jumped on board and said,

1199
01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:03,680
Speaker 2: oh my god, no, no, no, there's nothing to see here.

1200
01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:06,040
Speaker 2: We had been assured by so many that there was

1201
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:08,360
Speaker 2: nothing in here, and now there's like a lot in

1202
01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:13,480
Speaker 2: here that we should just start with what we are

1203
01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:18,520
Speaker 2: calling big ticket items. But even that's impossible to disseminate.

1204
01:06:18,640 --> 01:06:21,160
Speaker 2: So take it in the spirit. It's we don't know

1205
01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:24,960
Speaker 2: where to start other than by sharing more stories of

1206
01:06:25,160 --> 01:06:29,120
Speaker 2: survival and making sure that we're all mindful of safety

1207
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:33,000
Speaker 2: and it is happening around us. So how to keep

1208
01:06:33,040 --> 01:06:35,600
Speaker 2: our kids safe, how to keep each other safe? You know,

1209
01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:39,560
Speaker 2: listen up, So Court, it seems as though there are

1210
01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:42,240
Speaker 2: some key names that we should probably make sure we're

1211
01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:46,760
Speaker 2: at least opening the conversation about. And then we're going

1212
01:06:46,840 --> 01:06:50,200
Speaker 2: to keep doing this in small chunks, you know, certainly

1213
01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:51,120
Speaker 2: more into next week.

1214
01:06:51,160 --> 01:06:54,720
Speaker 3: If that makes sense, well, and it necessarily has to be.

1215
01:06:55,120 --> 01:06:57,080
Speaker 6: I might mess up the quote, but I was listening

1216
01:06:57,200 --> 01:07:00,200
Speaker 6: to journalists and they said, you know, if they were

1217
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:06,200
Speaker 6: fifty journalists each reading five hundred pages a day, it

1218
01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:07,200
Speaker 6: would take I think it was.

1219
01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:11,880
Speaker 3: Three or four months. And that is only the reading

1220
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:12,400
Speaker 3: it through.

1221
01:07:12,920 --> 01:07:16,360
Speaker 6: That is not connecting the dots of these three million

1222
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:23,040
Speaker 6: pages which are out of order and in no discernible in.

1223
01:07:23,200 --> 01:07:26,480
Speaker 3: Chronological or right. So it's so maddening.

1224
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:31,440
Speaker 6: So that task of you know, fifty times five hundred

1225
01:07:31,720 --> 01:07:35,400
Speaker 6: times three months, so necessarily it needs to be in chunks.

1226
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:37,600
Speaker 3: But today we got a chunk. We got a chunk

1227
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:39,160
Speaker 3: that has six names in it.

1228
01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:45,720
Speaker 6: So the Department of Justice they have unredacted multiple previously

1229
01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:49,960
Speaker 6: hidden names in these Jeffrey Epstein files. There has been

1230
01:07:50,080 --> 01:07:57,480
Speaker 6: pressure mounting from everywhere, it seems, and this revealed individuals

1231
01:07:57,520 --> 01:08:02,120
Speaker 6: who are listed as potentially conspiracy and also reignited the

1232
01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:06,400
Speaker 6: scrutiny over the overall handling of these documents.

1233
01:08:09,040 --> 01:08:13,400
Speaker 3: So should we go to if anyone needs reminding.

1234
01:08:13,480 --> 01:08:18,080
Speaker 6: Jeffrey Ebstein as a convicted sex offender, very wealthy, and

1235
01:08:18,760 --> 01:08:22,000
Speaker 6: he is accused of sex trafficking at the highest level

1236
01:08:22,760 --> 01:08:26,839
Speaker 6: and two people of consequence who are running the world basically,

1237
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:30,560
Speaker 6: so that's him, and these are the documents relating to

1238
01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:36,120
Speaker 6: the case, and let's go to a Representative Rocanna's clip.

1239
01:08:37,439 --> 01:08:40,880
Speaker 12: Yesterday, Congressman Massey and I went to the Department of

1240
01:08:41,120 --> 01:08:45,360
Speaker 12: Justice to read the unredacted Epstein files. We spent about

1241
01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:49,559
Speaker 12: two hours there and we learned that seventy to eighty

1242
01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:55,160
Speaker 12: percent of the files are still redacted. In fact, there

1243
01:08:55,200 --> 01:08:59,920
Speaker 12: were six wealthy powerful men that the DOJ hid for.

1244
01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:01,120
Speaker 5: No apparent reason.

1245
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:05,200
Speaker 12: When Congressman Massey and I pointed this out to the

1246
01:09:05,280 --> 01:09:09,439
Speaker 12: Department of Justice, they acknowledged their mistake. And now they

1247
01:09:09,479 --> 01:09:13,120
Speaker 12: have revealed the identity of these six powerful men.

1248
01:09:13,920 --> 01:09:14,800
Speaker 5: These men are.

1249
01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:25,280
Speaker 12: Salvator Novora Zorab, miklods Leopig Leonor, Nikola Kaputa, Sultan Ahmed

1250
01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:32,120
Speaker 12: bin Suliam, CEO of Dubaiports World, and billionaire businessman Leslie Wexner,

1251
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:36,080
Speaker 12: who was labeled as a co conspirator by the FBI.

1252
01:09:37,040 --> 01:09:39,479
Speaker 12: Now my question is why did it take Thomas Massey

1253
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:42,840
Speaker 12: and me going to the Justice Department to get these

1254
01:09:42,920 --> 01:09:47,439
Speaker 12: six men's identities to become public. And if we found

1255
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:51,520
Speaker 12: six men that they were hiding in two hours, imagine

1256
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:54,599
Speaker 12: how many men they are covering up for in those

1257
01:09:54,680 --> 01:09:55,719
Speaker 12: three million files.

1258
01:09:56,520 --> 01:10:01,960
Speaker 2: I mean, well said, who are these guys? But also,

1259
01:10:02,240 --> 01:10:04,439
Speaker 2: you know, what we're finding is that this is that

1260
01:10:04,600 --> 01:10:09,160
Speaker 2: the netting is so wide. I mean, it's worldwide. It's

1261
01:10:09,200 --> 01:10:13,000
Speaker 2: so much bigger than even you know, it's way bigger

1262
01:10:13,080 --> 01:10:17,320
Speaker 2: than Capitol Hill. Oh yes, is some random thing happening

1263
01:10:17,400 --> 01:10:20,800
Speaker 2: on an island with some creepy guys. You know, it's

1264
01:10:21,479 --> 01:10:24,400
Speaker 2: far bigger than that, far scarier in so many ways. So,

1265
01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:28,640
Speaker 2: you know, Court, what's your takeaway in terms of.

1266
01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:34,720
Speaker 6: Well, I think it's you know, just what you know,

1267
01:10:34,840 --> 01:10:40,040
Speaker 6: Representative Rocanna said, is so staggering. First of all, that

1268
01:10:40,280 --> 01:10:43,519
Speaker 6: seventy to eighty percent is still redacted number one and

1269
01:10:43,920 --> 01:10:47,519
Speaker 6: number two, that again they found these names in the

1270
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:50,760
Speaker 6: course of two hours, versus the depth of.

1271
01:10:50,840 --> 01:10:53,439
Speaker 3: What we just said, how deep these files are. So

1272
01:10:53,560 --> 01:10:55,040
Speaker 3: it's unbelievable what is there.

1273
01:10:55,680 --> 01:10:59,320
Speaker 6: But the names that have come out, they are big, wealthy,

1274
01:10:59,600 --> 01:11:02,519
Speaker 6: they are our financial leaders and a lot of them.

1275
01:11:02,720 --> 01:11:04,640
Speaker 3: It's and.

1276
01:11:06,439 --> 01:11:10,599
Speaker 6: Also I think it exposes that or at least according

1277
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:15,680
Speaker 6: to Thomas Massey and others and a lot of the survivors,

1278
01:11:16,200 --> 01:11:20,639
Speaker 6: they've criticized the DOJ saying they're going against the law.

1279
01:11:21,280 --> 01:11:24,439
Speaker 3: So that's obviously, well, we're breaking the law, and so

1280
01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:26,320
Speaker 3: it's like it's two pieces of it.

1281
01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:29,479
Speaker 2: One it's like, let's get justice for the victims who

1282
01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:32,559
Speaker 2: have felt as though they've been tossed aside for decades. Right,

1283
01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:35,640
Speaker 2: So it's almost like there's two parallel paths happening at

1284
01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:39,600
Speaker 2: the same time, which is extra extra just regulating.

1285
01:11:39,760 --> 01:11:39,880
Speaker 9: Right.

1286
01:11:40,040 --> 01:11:42,559
Speaker 2: So, on the one hand, we know of the victims

1287
01:11:42,680 --> 01:11:46,639
Speaker 2: that either we personally have seen, you know, on Capitol

1288
01:11:46,720 --> 01:11:51,120
Speaker 2: Hill and even today in the courtroom, or with even

1289
01:11:51,200 --> 01:11:55,559
Speaker 2: at the Oversight Committee meeting, there were survivors that were there,

1290
01:11:55,880 --> 01:11:58,360
Speaker 2: and then larger were also coming to terms with their

1291
01:11:58,439 --> 01:12:00,800
Speaker 2: fact that there may be an elite government that we

1292
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:05,400
Speaker 2: weren't even aware of that was actually working things behind

1293
01:12:05,439 --> 01:12:08,680
Speaker 2: the scenes. And that's like a whole other parallel investigation

1294
01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:12,120
Speaker 2: that has to be continued, which again, every day you

1295
01:12:12,240 --> 01:12:14,240
Speaker 2: sort of wake up to a new set of things

1296
01:12:14,320 --> 01:12:18,600
Speaker 2: that are so complicated. These six people, why were they redacted?

1297
01:12:19,120 --> 01:12:21,919
Speaker 2: Why is it possible that the files that were released,

1298
01:12:22,080 --> 01:12:24,720
Speaker 2: even the three million that we have access to Right now,

1299
01:12:25,439 --> 01:12:28,519
Speaker 2: the House Oversight Committee is speaking to Pambondi. We're being

1300
01:12:28,600 --> 01:12:33,439
Speaker 2: told that Congress can see unredacted versions anytime. Yet we're

1301
01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:37,040
Speaker 2: finding out when they go there, it's like four random

1302
01:12:37,160 --> 01:12:41,040
Speaker 2: computers to look at three million documents. And by the way,

1303
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:44,360
Speaker 2: the documents that they're looking at are the ones that

1304
01:12:44,479 --> 01:12:48,320
Speaker 2: were redacted the first time, so they're seeing like the

1305
01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:53,960
Speaker 2: added layer of redactions removed, but there's a previous layer

1306
01:12:54,160 --> 01:12:58,240
Speaker 2: of redactions that has already been applied. So again they're

1307
01:12:58,320 --> 01:13:02,439
Speaker 2: going to like a random It seems like so low rent.

1308
01:13:02,720 --> 01:13:05,760
Speaker 2: You know, are we not more sophisticated than this? You're

1309
01:13:05,800 --> 01:13:08,680
Speaker 2: going to go there on your job time as a

1310
01:13:08,760 --> 01:13:11,479
Speaker 2: member of Congress, log on to one of the weird

1311
01:13:11,640 --> 01:13:15,519
Speaker 2: four computers that have three million pages of documents, and

1312
01:13:15,600 --> 01:13:20,639
Speaker 2: you're going to comb through to see unredacted redacted files.

1313
01:13:21,200 --> 01:13:23,599
Speaker 3: Right, it's purposely archaic, right.

1314
01:13:23,600 --> 01:13:28,439
Speaker 2: So you know, the CSI, we know that this is

1315
01:13:28,479 --> 01:13:33,920
Speaker 2: a sophisticated world, right that you know, we have extraordinary options,

1316
01:13:34,200 --> 01:13:37,160
Speaker 2: whether that's through a I or otherwise. I don't know

1317
01:13:37,240 --> 01:13:40,479
Speaker 2: what the hold ups there are legally, but surely there's

1318
01:13:40,520 --> 01:13:44,240
Speaker 2: a less unsophisticated way to do this, right, Like this

1319
01:13:44,400 --> 01:13:47,200
Speaker 2: is crazy. Imagine number one, number two, the things that

1320
01:13:47,280 --> 01:13:49,360
Speaker 2: are coming out, you know, I feel like there's some

1321
01:13:49,640 --> 01:13:52,920
Speaker 2: like you know, bombs being tossed at us a little

1322
01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:57,360
Speaker 2: bit that you see both sides figuring out and they're like, ah,

1323
01:13:57,840 --> 01:13:59,679
Speaker 2: you know they were they're the enemy.

1324
01:14:00,080 --> 01:14:00,920
Speaker 3: Know you're the enemy.

1325
01:14:01,439 --> 01:14:05,720
Speaker 6: Guys, guess what should we actually go through? Who these

1326
01:14:05,920 --> 01:14:06,240
Speaker 6: men are?

1327
01:14:07,040 --> 01:14:07,240
Speaker 2: You are?

1328
01:14:07,680 --> 01:14:07,840
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1329
01:14:07,840 --> 01:14:10,160
Speaker 10: Because I only recognize really one name on the list,

1330
01:14:10,200 --> 01:14:10,679
Speaker 10: so I'd love.

1331
01:14:10,680 --> 01:14:11,800
Speaker 3: Lex right right.

1332
01:14:11,920 --> 01:14:15,200
Speaker 6: So, so the one that's probably familiar is Les Wester.

1333
01:14:15,479 --> 01:14:18,439
Speaker 6: He's a retail magnet. He's a founder of Victoria's Secret

1334
01:14:20,000 --> 01:14:24,360
Speaker 6: was one of or possibly still is the wealthiest people

1335
01:14:24,560 --> 01:14:25,040
Speaker 6: in the state of.

1336
01:14:25,040 --> 01:14:27,719
Speaker 3: Ohio to give you now. He lives at Ohio.

1337
01:14:28,160 --> 01:14:32,559
Speaker 2: Interesting aside on that front is he's like the original sourcing,

1338
01:14:33,080 --> 01:14:36,240
Speaker 2: you know, he kind of is the og of the

1339
01:14:36,400 --> 01:14:41,439
Speaker 2: financial sourcing. And there's lots of discussion also about the

1340
01:14:41,880 --> 01:14:46,720
Speaker 2: university hospital in Ohio that Les Wexner must in some

1341
01:14:46,880 --> 01:14:52,560
Speaker 2: way be a part of, and doctors being on Epstein's

1342
01:14:52,760 --> 01:14:57,760
Speaker 2: retainer gynecologists. There's a whole other world in Ohio specifically

1343
01:14:58,439 --> 01:15:02,240
Speaker 2: that needs that's really scary. It's just that's like a

1344
01:15:02,320 --> 01:15:06,479
Speaker 2: whole whole other year world. Yes, so exactly, let's park that.

1345
01:15:06,760 --> 01:15:12,679
Speaker 6: But important Number two Sultan Ahmed Bill excuse me, Sultan

1346
01:15:12,720 --> 01:15:20,600
Speaker 6: Ahmed bin su Layman and it's a billionaire and Mariti businessman.

1347
01:15:21,120 --> 01:15:24,320
Speaker 6: He's the CEO of DP World, which is a global

1348
01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:28,680
Speaker 6: ports logistics company that operates in over eighty countries. And

1349
01:15:29,800 --> 01:15:34,120
Speaker 6: I actually one of his unredacted emails I remember seeing

1350
01:15:34,680 --> 01:15:37,439
Speaker 6: he was the recipient of an email that said, where

1351
01:15:37,520 --> 01:15:38,680
Speaker 6: are you are you?

1352
01:15:38,800 --> 01:15:44,160
Speaker 3: Okay? I love the torture video that I've seen that email,

1353
01:15:44,200 --> 01:15:48,120
Speaker 3: but I didn't know who who's very real. So what they're.

1354
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:51,080
Speaker 2: Referring to is, is it possible that there is this

1355
01:15:51,400 --> 01:15:57,280
Speaker 2: larger ring of elite minds and that elite mind ring

1356
01:15:57,640 --> 01:16:01,439
Speaker 2: wait for it to gir alert, is there's like a

1357
01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:04,320
Speaker 2: ritual like getting into a gang, Like there's some sort

1358
01:16:04,320 --> 01:16:06,479
Speaker 2: of a ritual that requires.

1359
01:16:06,840 --> 01:16:10,719
Speaker 3: A young child, oh god, to be in this weird

1360
01:16:10,800 --> 01:16:11,360
Speaker 3: ritual club.

1361
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:13,360
Speaker 2: This is what the assessment is a little bit from

1362
01:16:13,400 --> 01:16:17,120
Speaker 2: a distance. We'll get into it more with smarter brains, Okay,

1363
01:16:17,280 --> 01:16:19,000
Speaker 2: But that's the implication.

1364
01:16:19,320 --> 01:16:22,280
Speaker 6: Right, And again this is you know, a man who's

1365
01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:27,360
Speaker 6: a billionaire, who is I guess sharing torture videos with

1366
01:16:27,400 --> 01:16:28,240
Speaker 6: Jeffrey Ebstein.

1367
01:16:28,600 --> 01:16:31,120
Speaker 2: It is directly related to a lot of the things

1368
01:16:31,120 --> 01:16:33,840
Speaker 2: that we're seeing real time in terms of tariffs, et cetera.

1369
01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:37,719
Speaker 2: Like this is a big piece of this equation math

1370
01:16:38,080 --> 01:16:39,320
Speaker 2: equation right.

1371
01:16:40,960 --> 01:16:46,680
Speaker 6: Leslie Groff so a former assistant to Ebstein, So she

1372
01:16:46,800 --> 01:16:50,560
Speaker 6: worked closely with them for many years, handled just administrative, financial,

1373
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:55,559
Speaker 6: and personal matters, and she is named as a potential

1374
01:16:55,680 --> 01:17:01,759
Speaker 6: co conspirator, and she managed Epstein's day to day affairs,

1375
01:17:01,800 --> 01:17:05,799
Speaker 6: which if you guys, remember when we had Lisa Phillips

1376
01:17:05,880 --> 01:17:10,400
Speaker 6: on the other night, her saying that secretary secretaries.

1377
01:17:09,960 --> 01:17:15,000
Speaker 3: Yeah on, you know, all the time, all the time, right, yeah.

1378
01:17:15,160 --> 01:17:19,120
Speaker 6: Yes, incessantly trying to get these women. Then we have

1379
01:17:20,439 --> 01:17:26,439
Speaker 6: Leapig Lenov and Leah peg hold On. I'm sorry I

1380
01:17:27,000 --> 01:17:29,959
Speaker 6: lost my place, I lost my great job because.

1381
01:17:31,320 --> 01:17:33,200
Speaker 10: Some of the I think some of the other names

1382
01:17:33,200 --> 01:17:35,960
Speaker 10: that some of them we don't have any information.

1383
01:17:36,439 --> 01:17:38,960
Speaker 13: Got it from Leapeg is one of the people that

1384
01:17:39,360 --> 01:17:41,639
Speaker 13: there's really nothing that we know about this person.

1385
01:17:41,920 --> 01:17:43,160
Speaker 10: So we've done.

1386
01:17:43,560 --> 01:17:45,679
Speaker 3: That's why I couldn't find in my notes, thank you Taha.

1387
01:17:45,960 --> 01:17:50,160
Speaker 10: Yeah, there's no public reporting, so that indicates any.

1388
01:17:50,280 --> 01:17:54,560
Speaker 2: Okay, throw one other thing out there too, because what

1389
01:17:54,680 --> 01:17:57,400
Speaker 2: we also know, this is undisputable at this point, is

1390
01:17:57,479 --> 01:18:01,519
Speaker 2: that there is a lot a larger intelligence community at large.

1391
01:18:01,680 --> 01:18:05,200
Speaker 2: So we're not going to find these people online. They

1392
01:18:05,240 --> 01:18:07,800
Speaker 2: don't have a LinkedIn right. These are the people that

1393
01:18:07,920 --> 01:18:11,639
Speaker 2: get scrubbed from the Internet. This is how the digital

1394
01:18:11,720 --> 01:18:15,599
Speaker 2: cage that is allegedly being built around us survives. These

1395
01:18:15,640 --> 01:18:17,160
Speaker 2: are the people making those decisions.

1396
01:18:17,560 --> 01:18:20,960
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, Well do we want to continue this next? Yes,

1397
01:18:21,080 --> 01:18:23,560
Speaker 4: let's continue. Let's continue with the next name when we

1398
01:18:23,640 --> 01:18:25,560
Speaker 4: come back, and we're going to be getting into some

1399
01:18:25,640 --> 01:18:26,560
Speaker 4: of your talkbacks.

1400
01:18:26,680 --> 01:18:28,080
Speaker 3: Keep it right here, True Crime Tonight.

1401
01:18:38,680 --> 01:18:41,719
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1402
01:18:41,800 --> 01:18:45,080
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

1403
01:18:45,200 --> 01:18:49,320
Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong Body movin as well, of course, so we're

1404
01:18:49,360 --> 01:18:54,200
Speaker 2: talking all things Epstein Files, keeping our heads high and Courtney,

1405
01:18:54,360 --> 01:18:57,920
Speaker 2: go ahead, give us another name, a newly released name.

1406
01:18:58,360 --> 01:18:58,559
Speaker 10: Yeah.

1407
01:18:58,640 --> 01:19:01,000
Speaker 6: So, if you're just joining us, we are talking about

1408
01:19:01,080 --> 01:19:05,559
Speaker 6: the newly released names in the Epstein Files that happened

1409
01:19:05,680 --> 01:19:10,040
Speaker 6: after representatives Rocanna and Thomas Massey put a lot of

1410
01:19:10,160 --> 01:19:12,880
Speaker 6: pressure to have them these names released.

1411
01:19:12,920 --> 01:19:14,559
Speaker 3: So we have two left.

1412
01:19:14,960 --> 01:19:19,160
Speaker 6: Jean Luke Brunel and he was a French modeling agent,

1413
01:19:19,560 --> 01:19:24,479
Speaker 6: founder of MC two and Character Model Management funded by

1414
01:19:24,600 --> 01:19:28,240
Speaker 6: Epstein Model. Yeah.

1415
01:19:28,479 --> 01:19:32,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, put in that and He is accused of.

1416
01:19:33,640 --> 01:19:38,400
Speaker 6: Recruiting young women and girls for Epstein. He face charges

1417
01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:42,919
Speaker 6: in France for rape and for sexual assault of minors.

1418
01:19:43,680 --> 01:19:49,160
Speaker 6: And this man was ultimately found This sounds a little familiar.

1419
01:19:49,360 --> 01:19:52,719
Speaker 6: He was found dead by suicide in his Paris prison

1420
01:19:52,840 --> 01:19:55,960
Speaker 6: cell in twenty twenty two before standing trial.

1421
01:19:56,320 --> 01:19:59,320
Speaker 3: Stop it, wow, stop it right now. I will to

1422
01:19:59,400 --> 01:20:01,240
Speaker 3: stop it for it's just.

1423
01:20:03,800 --> 01:20:04,080
Speaker 7: Wow.

1424
01:20:05,280 --> 01:20:08,360
Speaker 4: And he was like, can you imagine, Yeah, the whole

1425
01:20:08,400 --> 01:20:10,960
Speaker 4: conversation we have with Lisa Phillips about the modeling and

1426
01:20:11,560 --> 01:20:13,960
Speaker 4: it just you know, how hey, listen, you know, this

1427
01:20:14,120 --> 01:20:17,280
Speaker 4: is a really great modeling contract and one of them,

1428
01:20:17,320 --> 01:20:19,200
Speaker 4: you know, let's go talk to my friend Jeffrey. He

1429
01:20:19,280 --> 01:20:22,719
Speaker 4: really likes massages, and they're you know, dangling this contract.

1430
01:20:22,760 --> 01:20:24,760
Speaker 3: I can just listen. I can just see it now,

1431
01:20:25,080 --> 01:20:27,240
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. You can just literally see

1432
01:20:27,280 --> 01:20:27,679
Speaker 3: it now.

1433
01:20:28,479 --> 01:20:31,320
Speaker 2: Handed from one place to one place, to one place

1434
01:20:31,400 --> 01:20:35,320
Speaker 2: to one place, and it sounds like they're all being groomed.

1435
01:20:35,880 --> 01:20:39,200
Speaker 2: It sounds like they're all being you know, it's pageants,

1436
01:20:39,600 --> 01:20:45,120
Speaker 2: it's modeling agencies, it's banking systems. You know, the reality

1437
01:20:45,280 --> 01:20:48,000
Speaker 2: is this system on every level is potentially compromised.

1438
01:20:48,840 --> 01:20:54,759
Speaker 4: Well and because apparently Jeffrey Epstein funded this guy's modeling company,

1439
01:20:55,120 --> 01:20:58,200
Speaker 4: his management company, so not only oh.

1440
01:20:58,080 --> 01:21:03,960
Speaker 3: My god, it was so horrible, so horrible. Okay, who's next.

1441
01:21:04,320 --> 01:21:08,600
Speaker 6: So the final the final name we have on this

1442
01:21:08,760 --> 01:21:16,080
Speaker 6: evening is Karna Shuliac. Now, she was Epstein's longtime girlfriend

1443
01:21:16,360 --> 01:21:19,840
Speaker 6: and close associate for between eight and ten years.

1444
01:21:20,880 --> 01:21:23,840
Speaker 2: She was out of nowhere. I had never heard her

1445
01:21:23,920 --> 01:21:27,840
Speaker 2: name until recently until it came out about her.

1446
01:21:27,880 --> 01:21:30,720
Speaker 3: Will sorry to cut you off, and.

1447
01:21:31,040 --> 01:21:34,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, she was kept under wraps and not all that

1448
01:21:34,840 --> 01:21:39,360
Speaker 6: much is known, but she was his last phone call

1449
01:21:39,479 --> 01:21:43,240
Speaker 6: I'm fairly certain before his suicide, either last or second

1450
01:21:43,320 --> 01:21:47,840
Speaker 6: to last. And she is a Belarusian born dentist.

1451
01:21:47,880 --> 01:21:53,360
Speaker 2: Dentist I know, dentist, which does raise sort of we

1452
01:21:53,400 --> 01:21:56,640
Speaker 2: can put a pin in maybe the loop regarding the

1453
01:21:56,720 --> 01:21:59,800
Speaker 2: dentist chair that we've seen that was so curious to us.

1454
01:22:00,520 --> 01:22:05,360
Speaker 3: Maybe it was because his longtime girlfriend was a dentist.

1455
01:22:05,720 --> 01:22:06,320
Speaker 10: That tracks.

1456
01:22:06,439 --> 01:22:09,479
Speaker 2: Okay, why all the doctors everywhere, like even having a

1457
01:22:09,640 --> 01:22:13,479
Speaker 2: dentist on the island there is There's a couple of

1458
01:22:13,560 --> 01:22:15,839
Speaker 2: things that I think, you know, just as an audience,

1459
01:22:15,920 --> 01:22:18,559
Speaker 2: even for us all to just be thinking about low

1460
01:22:18,640 --> 01:22:20,800
Speaker 2: key in the back of our minds that are like

1461
01:22:20,920 --> 01:22:23,880
Speaker 2: these these little clues that are getting dropped. Some of

1462
01:22:23,920 --> 01:22:27,640
Speaker 2: them are very harrowing. So I'm treading lightly here. A

1463
01:22:27,680 --> 01:22:30,080
Speaker 2: couple of things we know is that there's this discussion

1464
01:22:30,160 --> 01:22:34,200
Speaker 2: of torture. There's a discussion of in various ways, whether

1465
01:22:34,360 --> 01:22:38,720
Speaker 2: this is just slang, or that there's some level of

1466
01:22:39,000 --> 01:22:41,720
Speaker 2: there's some kind of an experiment or something happening with

1467
01:22:41,880 --> 01:22:48,280
Speaker 2: an experiment on someone or mini someone's And it seems

1468
01:22:48,320 --> 01:22:51,160
Speaker 2: to point at New Mexico, the location that was never

1469
01:22:51,520 --> 01:22:57,560
Speaker 2: actually even gone through by law enforcement. New Mexico is

1470
01:22:57,600 --> 01:23:02,040
Speaker 2: where Epstein had his original and this was sort of

1471
01:23:02,240 --> 01:23:08,400
Speaker 2: his first, huge, beautiful location prior to Epstein Island. They

1472
01:23:09,200 --> 01:23:13,760
Speaker 2: investigators haven't even haven't even looked at this place at all.

1473
01:23:13,880 --> 01:23:18,120
Speaker 2: That's impossible. And there's some inferences, maybe out of context.

1474
01:23:18,439 --> 01:23:21,880
Speaker 2: So we're taking our time to give that proper context.

1475
01:23:22,720 --> 01:23:26,439
Speaker 2: That weird stuff has been happening, and they were sending

1476
01:23:26,600 --> 01:23:30,360
Speaker 2: like DNA tests twenty three and me DNA tests in

1477
01:23:30,520 --> 01:23:35,560
Speaker 2: bulk to so many weird places like Geneva and you know,

1478
01:23:35,720 --> 01:23:41,040
Speaker 2: Saudi Arabia. Why why was Jeffrey Epstein with all the

1479
01:23:41,120 --> 01:23:45,320
Speaker 2: DNA kits everywhere, and was there something about the eugenics

1480
01:23:45,600 --> 01:23:48,200
Speaker 2: or him trying to create the perfect.

1481
01:23:49,760 --> 01:23:51,520
Speaker 3: The perfect bloodline.

1482
01:23:51,760 --> 01:23:55,240
Speaker 2: It seemed as though he's obsessed with his his smarty

1483
01:23:55,320 --> 01:23:58,880
Speaker 2: pants DNA. There seems to be a little there's a

1484
01:23:58,920 --> 01:24:01,439
Speaker 2: little of that every where in the files from what

1485
01:24:01,640 --> 01:24:05,280
Speaker 2: I'm seeing collectively that I don't know what to do

1486
01:24:05,360 --> 01:24:07,760
Speaker 2: with that information, and certainly I'm not smart enough to

1487
01:24:07,880 --> 01:24:10,519
Speaker 2: know what to do with that information, but something for

1488
01:24:10,640 --> 01:24:14,800
Speaker 2: us to be tracking. And these names new to the party,

1489
01:24:15,360 --> 01:24:18,760
Speaker 2: but likely these names have been redacted many many, many,

1490
01:24:18,800 --> 01:24:22,880
Speaker 2: many many many times, And there's likely another layer over

1491
01:24:23,080 --> 01:24:28,439
Speaker 2: this six people like what's the real conspirators who are

1492
01:24:28,560 --> 01:24:32,719
Speaker 2: employing Jeffrey Epstein? And or was he just a super

1493
01:24:32,840 --> 01:24:37,160
Speaker 2: spy who has just taking dibbs and blackmailing everybody possible

1494
01:24:38,360 --> 01:24:38,719
Speaker 2: or both?

1495
01:24:40,680 --> 01:24:40,840
Speaker 3: Right?

1496
01:24:42,120 --> 01:24:44,640
Speaker 4: And she so she was this longtime girlfriend. She was

1497
01:24:44,680 --> 01:24:48,880
Speaker 4: a dentist, right, And apparently I just went and looked.

1498
01:24:49,640 --> 01:24:54,439
Speaker 4: She came to America on his dime. She was from

1499
01:24:54,560 --> 01:24:58,280
Speaker 4: She's Belarusian born, came to America on his dime, and

1500
01:24:58,400 --> 01:25:03,360
Speaker 4: he put her through through school right at Columbia University's

1501
01:25:03,400 --> 01:25:06,240
Speaker 4: dental school. After she was initially rejected.

1502
01:25:07,640 --> 01:25:09,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's really egregious.

1503
01:25:10,040 --> 01:25:13,760
Speaker 6: He he didn't put her through school so much as

1504
01:25:13,800 --> 01:25:17,160
Speaker 6: it sounds like he bought her way in, had her

1505
01:25:17,240 --> 01:25:21,600
Speaker 6: place there. Because the dean and other administrators facilitated this

1506
01:25:21,800 --> 01:25:25,519
Speaker 6: transfer to Columbia where she didn't deserve to be because

1507
01:25:25,520 --> 01:25:29,639
Speaker 6: she had been denied. The dean and other administrators shared

1508
01:25:29,760 --> 01:25:32,920
Speaker 6: exam materials with her, and then they went ahead and

1509
01:25:33,000 --> 01:25:36,120
Speaker 6: developed a personalized study plan stuff.

1510
01:25:36,560 --> 01:25:39,760
Speaker 4: A special study plan just for Yeah, wow, do you

1511
01:25:39,920 --> 01:25:41,160
Speaker 4: get infury?

1512
01:25:41,320 --> 01:25:45,840
Speaker 3: Like there's a whole layer, there's a higher that we're

1513
01:25:45,960 --> 01:25:47,240
Speaker 3: just not allowed to play.

1514
01:25:47,320 --> 01:25:49,840
Speaker 4: Everybody. Everybody has to play by the rules except for

1515
01:25:50,080 --> 01:25:50,960
Speaker 4: these guys.

1516
01:25:50,760 --> 01:25:55,040
Speaker 3: Right except the ones that don't make the rules. It's

1517
01:25:55,080 --> 01:25:58,160
Speaker 3: like talking about you know.

1518
01:25:59,320 --> 01:26:01,320
Speaker 2: And then when we're not sure, they're like toss a

1519
01:26:01,360 --> 01:26:03,600
Speaker 2: war at us. But yet we're paying for it and

1520
01:26:03,720 --> 01:26:05,479
Speaker 2: sending our kids. I don't know what to say.

1521
01:26:05,840 --> 01:26:09,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, so this woman, we might even consider doing sort

1522
01:26:09,120 --> 01:26:12,360
Speaker 6: of a deeper dive when we have our information, because

1523
01:26:13,439 --> 01:26:16,479
Speaker 6: I don't know where she is now. But ultimately she

1524
01:26:16,600 --> 01:26:20,400
Speaker 6: did get a practice Lens Saint Thomas in the US

1525
01:26:20,479 --> 01:26:21,160
Speaker 6: Virgin Islands.

1526
01:26:21,320 --> 01:26:23,799
Speaker 3: She received about thirty million dollars.

1527
01:26:23,920 --> 01:26:24,120
Speaker 5: You know.

1528
01:26:24,320 --> 01:26:28,840
Speaker 2: So she received many diamonds that are the size of

1529
01:26:28,960 --> 01:26:33,960
Speaker 2: like half a finger sized diamonds, raw diamonds, you know,

1530
01:26:34,600 --> 01:26:35,800
Speaker 2: cash million.

1531
01:26:36,320 --> 01:26:40,439
Speaker 6: She was left the lion's share of his wealth one

1532
01:26:40,520 --> 01:26:42,400
Speaker 6: hundred million dollars in his estate.

1533
01:26:42,520 --> 01:26:52,400
Speaker 3: Actually, god, which is before your death? Oh Elaine got

1534
01:26:53,120 --> 01:26:55,000
Speaker 3: what did she get? What did Glaine get? Like?

1535
01:26:55,200 --> 01:26:55,760
Speaker 10: What did she get?

1536
01:26:55,880 --> 01:26:56,960
Speaker 3: Twenty million? Something like that?

1537
01:26:58,840 --> 01:27:00,599
Speaker 10: I can't even imagine she got.

1538
01:27:00,560 --> 01:27:02,880
Speaker 2: Like one hundred grand or something or Yeah, it was

1539
01:27:02,960 --> 01:27:08,120
Speaker 2: like penny It was comparatively speaking, pennies and on par

1540
01:27:08,439 --> 01:27:12,639
Speaker 2: with you know, somebody who was like his longtime pilot.

1541
01:27:12,760 --> 01:27:15,519
Speaker 2: I'm paraphrasing, but it was like somebody who offered him,

1542
01:27:16,240 --> 01:27:18,320
Speaker 2: you know, his flying to breed.

1543
01:27:20,240 --> 01:27:22,800
Speaker 3: Something to that extent. Yeah, let's slap in the face

1544
01:27:22,880 --> 01:27:26,519
Speaker 3: to Glayne. Right good? I mean I kind of like it.

1545
01:27:26,680 --> 01:27:27,080
Speaker 3: But wow.

1546
01:27:28,000 --> 01:27:30,840
Speaker 2: So it raises a couple of questions with Gilayne Maxwell too.

1547
01:27:31,040 --> 01:27:35,639
Speaker 2: Did she really love him or was she calling the shots?

1548
01:27:36,360 --> 01:27:39,679
Speaker 2: Who was the original og? It does seem like her father,

1549
01:27:39,960 --> 01:27:43,120
Speaker 2: Gilaine Maxwell's father is becoming a larger character in the

1550
01:27:43,200 --> 01:27:45,639
Speaker 2: story than I had appreciated.

1551
01:27:46,640 --> 01:27:46,680
Speaker 8: That.

1552
01:27:47,120 --> 01:27:50,880
Speaker 2: You know, where was his death in all of this?

1553
01:27:51,320 --> 01:27:56,000
Speaker 2: He had a suspicious death he died while aboard his boat,

1554
01:27:56,360 --> 01:27:59,599
Speaker 2: and some say it was suicide, very similar to Epstein.

1555
01:28:00,560 --> 01:28:02,519
Speaker 2: I also think we're learning in the files that it

1556
01:28:02,680 --> 01:28:05,960
Speaker 2: wasn't suicide, Adam, Am, I overstating right now.

1557
01:28:05,960 --> 01:28:08,240
Speaker 3: I'm trying not to get ahead of myself. No, I

1558
01:28:08,360 --> 01:28:12,080
Speaker 3: mean there is an email where Epstein I think that

1559
01:28:12,320 --> 01:28:15,760
Speaker 3: was a lie. Yeah, I think we're right. I don't

1560
01:28:15,800 --> 01:28:18,000
Speaker 3: want to speak on air, but there are emails where

1561
01:28:18,000 --> 01:28:21,599
Speaker 3: Epstein discusses it with people how Glen's father died.

1562
01:28:22,960 --> 01:28:23,360
Speaker 7: Yeah, so.

1563
01:28:25,120 --> 01:28:27,759
Speaker 3: You know, there's a lot of repeat behavior is happening.

1564
01:28:27,880 --> 01:28:32,519
Speaker 2: It doesn't also seem that Jeffrey Epstein committed suicide as

1565
01:28:32,600 --> 01:28:35,960
Speaker 2: it's been reported. And remember the chain of command here

1566
01:28:36,080 --> 01:28:39,720
Speaker 2: goes back through all cabinets at this point. So so

1567
01:28:39,800 --> 01:28:42,160
Speaker 2: if Jeffrey didn't gemit suicide, I don't know who a

1568
01:28:42,280 --> 01:28:44,720
Speaker 2: point free even at I think we all kind of

1569
01:28:44,760 --> 01:28:47,559
Speaker 2: agree that the even the forensics don't point to Jeffrey

1570
01:28:47,560 --> 01:28:48,280
Speaker 2: committed suicide.

1571
01:28:48,360 --> 01:28:51,519
Speaker 3: Scientifically, that's what he prepare us to be through the files.

1572
01:28:51,600 --> 01:28:53,880
Speaker 4: Yet, because I haven't gotten as deep into it as

1573
01:28:53,960 --> 01:28:56,600
Speaker 4: like you and Adam have have, we learned through the

1574
01:28:56,640 --> 01:28:58,000
Speaker 4: files and the suspects are.

1575
01:29:00,040 --> 01:29:01,160
Speaker 3: Or the suspects would be.

1576
01:29:01,760 --> 01:29:06,960
Speaker 2: In Epstein's death names, Yeah, like you who killed him directly.

1577
01:29:07,400 --> 01:29:11,000
Speaker 3: As with everything, it's just like a million more questions are.

1578
01:29:13,400 --> 01:29:13,559
Speaker 5: Well.

1579
01:29:13,800 --> 01:29:17,400
Speaker 6: Interestingly about the document in which these unredacted names are

1580
01:29:17,439 --> 01:29:20,760
Speaker 6: released is the actual name of the document, which is

1581
01:29:22,080 --> 01:29:27,519
Speaker 6: Jeffrey Ebstein Victim Death Investigation. So you could see that

1582
01:29:27,560 --> 01:29:32,920
Speaker 6: as an implication that the FBI was investigating these individuals

1583
01:29:32,960 --> 01:29:38,360
Speaker 6: in connection with Epple. Oh, so these names appeared on

1584
01:29:38,479 --> 01:29:43,720
Speaker 6: a death document, Jeffrey Ebstein Victim Death Investigation.

1585
01:29:44,000 --> 01:29:47,559
Speaker 3: And that was what the testimony was today in front

1586
01:29:47,560 --> 01:29:48,920
Speaker 3: of Congress.

1587
01:29:49,680 --> 01:29:53,800
Speaker 2: Those names that he said, because we're yes, just for

1588
01:29:53,960 --> 01:29:59,000
Speaker 2: added clarity, when Donald Trump signed into law that the

1589
01:29:59,120 --> 01:30:01,680
Speaker 2: things that were going to be redacted were simply to

1590
01:30:01,880 --> 01:30:06,160
Speaker 2: prevent any harm to victims. So the things that were

1591
01:30:06,200 --> 01:30:09,479
Speaker 2: being redacted would only be related to the victims, and

1592
01:30:09,880 --> 01:30:13,120
Speaker 2: there would also be a footnote or some explanation as

1593
01:30:13,200 --> 01:30:16,600
Speaker 2: to why a certain redaction would be there. Then what

1594
01:30:16,840 --> 01:30:20,640
Speaker 2: happened was there's like just tons of redactions. You know,

1595
01:30:20,760 --> 01:30:23,639
Speaker 2: that's become the drinking word of the week is redactions. Right,

1596
01:30:23,840 --> 01:30:28,200
Speaker 2: So now we're going back and seeing, Okay, well, those

1597
01:30:28,240 --> 01:30:30,479
Speaker 2: weren't really victims' names. It seems like there's been a

1598
01:30:30,520 --> 01:30:36,160
Speaker 2: lot of identifiers of male names or potential perpetrators that

1599
01:30:36,240 --> 01:30:41,240
Speaker 2: are being redacted, a lot of them, including even Donald

1600
01:30:41,280 --> 01:30:43,679
Speaker 2: Trump being named a million times. It's like it's definitely

1601
01:30:43,960 --> 01:30:47,720
Speaker 2: a there seems to be a concerted effort for these

1602
01:30:47,800 --> 01:30:52,920
Speaker 2: particular names, six of them specifically that may be repeatedly

1603
01:30:53,479 --> 01:30:55,559
Speaker 2: redacted from these files. And by the way, these are

1604
01:30:55,560 --> 01:30:59,520
Speaker 2: the files that were being given. Surely there's like conversations

1605
01:30:59,560 --> 01:31:02,760
Speaker 2: and things that are happening in rooms. There's video, there's

1606
01:31:02,800 --> 01:31:04,559
Speaker 2: no five I haven't gotten through all the video.

1607
01:31:06,800 --> 01:31:07,280
Speaker 3: Then there's a.

1608
01:31:07,439 --> 01:31:11,240
Speaker 2: Sub file to each file, you know, So it is

1609
01:31:11,640 --> 01:31:16,040
Speaker 2: really a scientist's work. So it's pretty lazy and sloppy

1610
01:31:16,200 --> 01:31:18,800
Speaker 2: that it's being thrown at the American people with very

1611
01:31:18,840 --> 01:31:21,800
Speaker 2: little context to sort of figure out for themselves as

1612
01:31:21,920 --> 01:31:24,400
Speaker 2: busy work. But at the same time, it's the busy

1613
01:31:24,439 --> 01:31:26,800
Speaker 2: work we're asking for. So I don't know what the

1614
01:31:27,120 --> 01:31:29,360
Speaker 2: solve is other than to be slow and steady.

1615
01:31:29,840 --> 01:31:32,160
Speaker 3: I wonder if a whole new like AI language model

1616
01:31:32,280 --> 01:31:35,799
Speaker 3: is going to be like invented to analyze these files,

1617
01:31:36,360 --> 01:31:36,519
Speaker 3: you know.

1618
01:31:36,520 --> 01:31:41,000
Speaker 2: What I mean, Like, oh, that's interesting, he's doing the prompting, right,

1619
01:31:41,120 --> 01:31:44,040
Speaker 2: But this is who's doing the prompt right, So that's

1620
01:31:44,120 --> 01:31:47,560
Speaker 2: also equally important, you know, right now the DOJ. And

1621
01:31:47,640 --> 01:31:50,000
Speaker 2: I'm afraid to say this because I know we're in dangerous,

1622
01:31:50,080 --> 01:31:53,040
Speaker 2: weird times and I have nothing but the utmost respect

1623
01:31:53,200 --> 01:31:55,600
Speaker 2: for the system, and I don't even know what to

1624
01:31:55,640 --> 01:31:59,839
Speaker 2: say past that. But if the system is the monitoring

1625
01:32:00,240 --> 01:32:02,840
Speaker 2: the system as we know it, and we're seeing that

1626
01:32:02,960 --> 01:32:06,880
Speaker 2: the system has proven to be dishonest to us.

1627
01:32:08,000 --> 01:32:11,280
Speaker 3: As a member of US, I don't know. I don't

1628
01:32:11,320 --> 01:32:12,479
Speaker 3: know where to go for the truth.

1629
01:32:12,600 --> 01:32:15,560
Speaker 2: So that's why I think having the opportunity to be

1630
01:32:15,640 --> 01:32:18,919
Speaker 2: here together every night for two hours and why everyone's

1631
01:32:18,960 --> 01:32:21,400
Speaker 2: opinions are really valuable because I'm not even sure how

1632
01:32:21,439 --> 01:32:25,280
Speaker 2: to source the truth, you know, and it's truth, so

1633
01:32:25,600 --> 01:32:26,080
Speaker 2: that's true.

1634
01:32:26,200 --> 01:32:27,400
Speaker 3: You don't think it's the design.

1635
01:32:27,880 --> 01:32:30,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't know what's true and what's not. But

1636
01:32:30,720 --> 01:32:33,080
Speaker 2: I think that's a bigger piece of this. I don't

1637
01:32:33,080 --> 01:32:35,519
Speaker 2: think the DJ is really that dumb. I don't think

1638
01:32:35,640 --> 01:32:38,479
Speaker 2: we're I think we're getting a version of what we're

1639
01:32:38,520 --> 01:32:42,720
Speaker 2: supposed to be getting and it's probably fatiguing for all

1640
01:32:42,800 --> 01:32:46,280
Speaker 2: of us and just regulating, you know, it's doing the trick.

1641
01:32:48,240 --> 01:32:50,160
Speaker 3: We're going to try to sort through it so that.

1642
01:32:51,680 --> 01:32:53,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we don't want that to be the case either,

1643
01:32:53,400 --> 01:32:56,240
Speaker 2: because we have to stay hopeful that's the right spiriting.

1644
01:32:56,600 --> 01:33:01,000
Speaker 2: So we're going to keep at it it but be

1645
01:33:01,120 --> 01:33:04,120
Speaker 2: more actionable and have like more of a cliff notes

1646
01:33:04,439 --> 01:33:06,800
Speaker 2: of sort of what we're seeing as ticket items, and

1647
01:33:06,920 --> 01:33:10,200
Speaker 2: please feel free to share anyone listening what you're seeing

1648
01:33:10,240 --> 01:33:12,160
Speaker 2: as big ticket items, and then we'll just kind of

1649
01:33:12,200 --> 01:33:12,960
Speaker 2: parse those.

1650
01:33:14,760 --> 01:33:15,320
Speaker 10: In a way that.

1651
01:33:15,360 --> 01:33:20,400
Speaker 4: Seems sized chunks that's more easy to understand, right, like, yeah,

1652
01:33:20,560 --> 01:33:22,040
Speaker 4: simplify crazy.

1653
01:33:22,080 --> 01:33:26,400
Speaker 3: By the end of the day you pull up seems

1654
01:33:26,439 --> 01:33:27,160
Speaker 3: to dire.

1655
01:33:28,800 --> 01:33:32,280
Speaker 6: And that's part of what is so deeply problematic is

1656
01:33:32,840 --> 01:33:36,000
Speaker 6: you know, the threads are not connected or connecting, and

1657
01:33:36,760 --> 01:33:38,759
Speaker 6: of course is that the whole point.

1658
01:33:40,040 --> 01:33:43,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, so let's not be hasty, but you know it's

1659
01:33:43,760 --> 01:33:52,400
Speaker 3: important stuff. Well yeah, I don't even know for tomorrow, right,

1660
01:33:52,960 --> 01:33:53,960
Speaker 3: let's talk about tomorrow.

1661
01:33:54,920 --> 01:33:57,760
Speaker 13: Okay, Well for tomorrow, I'm excited because we're going to

1662
01:33:57,840 --> 01:34:00,960
Speaker 13: have two days. One of them Joseph's he's the executive

1663
01:34:01,000 --> 01:34:05,320
Speaker 13: producer of a documentary called love Ted Bundy. He's bringing

1664
01:34:05,400 --> 01:34:10,200
Speaker 13: along with him Ednawell caell. She is Ted Bundy's cousin,

1665
01:34:10,320 --> 01:34:11,800
Speaker 13: but she's going to be on the show with us.

1666
01:34:12,520 --> 01:34:14,759
Speaker 3: Ted Bundy's cousin is going to be on the show tomorrow.

1667
01:34:15,240 --> 01:34:15,719
Speaker 8: Tomorrow.

1668
01:34:15,840 --> 01:34:18,880
Speaker 10: She's got a lot to say and it's really fascinating to.

1669
01:34:18,960 --> 01:34:23,160
Speaker 3: Hear the corresponding Wow, okay, wow, Ted Bundy.

1670
01:34:22,880 --> 01:34:25,200
Speaker 2: Say, we have Joe Freed as well True Crime tonight.

1671
01:34:25,640 --> 01:34:26,599
Speaker 2: Stay safe, everyone,