Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,
Speaker 1: where we discuss the top political headlines with some of
Speaker 1: today's best minds. And Donald Trump says he as to
Speaker 1: cognitive test by identifying a whale. I'm sorry, but you
Speaker 1: can't argue with that. We have such a great show
Speaker 1: today NBC News as John Allen joins us from the
Speaker 1: snowy fields of New Hampshire to give us updates on
Speaker 1: the Republican presidential campaign trail. And we'll also talk a
Speaker 1: little bit about the Congress and pretending to want to
Speaker 1: deal with immigration. Then we'll talk to Heather Williams, president
Speaker 1: of the DLCC, about the ways in which Democrats are
Speaker 1: trying to influence policy at a state level. But first
Speaker 1: we have the host of the time of Monsters, the
Speaker 1: Nation's Jed Here. Welcome back to Fast Politics, my best aid.
Speaker 1: Jed here.
Speaker 2: Always good to be on the front ground.
Speaker 1: I'm very happy to have you. I really like you.
Speaker 1: That we never get to hang out because you live
Speaker 1: in Canada.
Speaker 2: I think it's much better if I go down and
Speaker 2: visit you in New York.
Speaker 1: Yes, and we'll all go on a nation cruise. I
Speaker 1: saw this piece of news. It really captured my imagination
Speaker 1: and I wanted to talk to you about it first.
Speaker 1: Justin Trudeau, your Prime minister, is pretty hot to run
Speaker 1: against Trump, explain to us how this works.
Speaker 2: I think what they're going to do is try to
Speaker 2: link the Conservative Party here to Trump, and that might
Speaker 2: have been hard to do. Like five years ago or more,
Speaker 2: Canadian Conservatives used to be of a different breed, but unfortunately,
Speaker 2: like as in many other places in the world, the
Speaker 2: right here has taken us our populous turn and including
Speaker 2: on issues like not wanting to help support Ukraine. But
Speaker 2: I also like sort of soft denial of COVID and
Speaker 2: anti vaccing stuff, and so yeah, I mean, I think
Speaker 2: you know, he's very down on the polls right now.
Speaker 2: I think they have a plausa will pass forward emphasizing
Speaker 2: how much the Conservatives have become Trump like. And Trump
Speaker 2: is very unpopular here. He's like eighty percent of the
Speaker 2: population here he doesn't like him. So if you can
Speaker 2: get that anti trumpfoot, if you're doing well.
Speaker 1: It's interesting to think about here's a brand that's so
Speaker 1: bad that other presidents in other countries are going to
Speaker 1: run against him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I think that's right. Well, I
Speaker 2: actually think that Trump's brand is bad in the United State.
Speaker 2: It's a little bit deceptive right now because he's in
Speaker 2: the Republican primaries, that's the group of people that like him.
Speaker 2: I actually think people are underestimating Trump's unpopularity.
Speaker 1: I think so too. Now I want to ask you
Speaker 1: as we go down this rabbit hole. I think that's right.
Speaker 1: But polling and again full disclaimer, not a fan, but
Speaker 1: polling has Biden down. There clearly is a feeling certain
Speaker 1: progressives are very mad at him. What do you think.
Speaker 1: It's many days away from the election, and so there
Speaker 1: really is an opportunity for Biden to win those people back, right,
Speaker 1: Like then, never Trump. Republicans are not going anywhere, they
Speaker 1: have no choices. But like, how does Biden win progressives back?
Speaker 1: How does he bring them home?
Speaker 2: Well, I think there's a couple of things that have
Speaker 2: to happen. One is, I think it's really hard, like
Speaker 2: as long as Gaza and foreign policy are kind of
Speaker 2: dominating the news, Like I don't think people necessarily voted
Speaker 2: for that, and it's becoming increasingly unpopular with his own base.
Speaker 2: But let's stipulate that, you know, like that's not going
Speaker 2: to go on forever and is not going to be
Speaker 2: the main issue in the summer in the fall. I
Speaker 2: actually think that Biden's doing a couple of things that
Speaker 2: are like smart and maybe not giving getting enough credit for.
Speaker 2: Oh interesting one is the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. They
Speaker 2: just released their real ending bank overdraft fees, and like
Speaker 2: that's like a really good measure. It's like a small
Speaker 2: board thing, but like it actually you know, like a
Speaker 2: lot of people to live paycheck to paycheck.
Speaker 1: It punishes poor people disproportionately.
Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely, Yeah, they're setting aside like land or solar power.
Speaker 2: A lot of federal lands is just announced today. Like
Speaker 2: a small board thing, but it's sort of I think
Speaker 2: it's a good wedge issue because that's obviously something Donald
Speaker 2: Trump will not do. And I think like the more
Speaker 2: you can emphasize like, oh, you know, like the stuff
Speaker 2: that like Biden can do and that Trump won't.
Speaker 1: Young people do vote on climate because they would like
Speaker 1: the planet to still be here.
Speaker 2: That's right, Yeah, yeah, you know, using the power that
Speaker 2: you have as a sort of federal administrative state. And
Speaker 2: I think it's a lot more that could be done
Speaker 2: in this area. I mean, I think that Biden's been
Speaker 2: good on judges, but that's been slowing down lately, and
Speaker 2: I would actually like really encourage them to like pick
Speaker 2: up the pace for a variety of reasons, one of
Speaker 2: which is just like you know, you could also lose, right,
Speaker 2: Like you want to get as many of your judges
Speaker 2: in there as possible and prevent as many Trump appointing
Speaker 2: judges if he gets back in. But having done that,
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think you should just be doing
Speaker 2: it as a routine administrative thing. Like they just play
Speaker 2: up the fact that, like, hey, there are all these
Speaker 2: judges out there that Trump judges are voting very badly
Speaker 2: on a lot of issues, like you know, particularly on
Speaker 2: abortion stop that continues to be a big issue, like
Speaker 2: where they're like supporting bad decisions at a state level
Speaker 2: and not not offering protection of rights. So I think
Speaker 2: that like if you can play up the judge issue
Speaker 2: as a political issue to like just say like it
Speaker 2: actually like really matters, Like you know, if your judge
Speaker 2: is going to like vote to say that like breath
Speaker 2: control pills are illegal and force women whose babies have
Speaker 2: already died to like carry to term, I would actually
Speaker 2: like turn the judge stuff into like a fighting issue.
Speaker 2: Just say these are just like regular ordinary judges, right,
Speaker 2: these are you know, Trump judges occasionally like push judges
Speaker 2: as well, you know, but just say like we actually
Speaker 2: you know, are having a big battle about this, and
Speaker 2: then make that the issue. You know. I think the
Speaker 2: Supreme Court, because of Dobbs, has like really made itself
Speaker 2: an issue. And I think that you can both run
Speaker 2: on Dobbs and but also like emphasize the new decisions
Speaker 2: that are gonna come down because I actually think there's
Speaker 2: a pretty good chance they're going to overturn the sort
Speaker 2: of Chevron precedent, which will be like disaster for the environment.
Speaker 2: And again, as you said, like the young people and
Speaker 2: the left raighting progressives who are very of Biden, I
Speaker 2: think that you know, you have to like make that
Speaker 2: a fighting issues, say like you know, like these decisions
Speaker 2: are you know, coming from a pretty demonstrably corrupt court,
Speaker 2: especially like you know, like course such you know, his
Speaker 2: mami has a long history of like anti environmental policy,
Speaker 2: and this is something they've wanted for years. There's a
Speaker 2: way in which like Biden and Democrats of his generation
Speaker 2: are there conflict a verse and they are worried about
Speaker 2: you know, like undermining the system. But actually I honestly think, like,
Speaker 2: you know, like making the judiciary like a central thing.
Speaker 2: It's saying, like, you know, all these bad things that
Speaker 2: are happening. If you don't give Biden in a democratic Senate,
Speaker 2: then you know, Republicans will entrench their powers in the
Speaker 2: courts even more and they'll make click everything like just
Speaker 2: so much harder on any issue you care about. So
Speaker 2: I think that there's like, as I said, a host
Speaker 2: of policy stoff, you know, like I wrote about this recently,
Speaker 2: the transportation issue, Like you know, like if you're willing
Speaker 2: to pick a fight with Boeing and with the airlines,
Speaker 2: and this is again going against how people put to
Speaker 2: judge the Transportation Secretary has generally behaved. But like if
Speaker 2: he actually says like everyone is mad at the airlines, right,
Speaker 2: and the buddaget did actually give them credit, did like
Speaker 2: do a very strong thing in finding the airlines for
Speaker 2: the big mess that they created, not the past Christmas,
Speaker 2: with the previous Christmas.
Speaker 1: And they were not happy with that. That was really good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But but just like I think that a lot
Speaker 2: of people are very mad.
Speaker 1: Boeing is a great example.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Boying is a great example, and like to actually
Speaker 2: and you know, like this is something is a bit
Speaker 2: of a challenge because unfortunately the art Democrats have tied
Speaker 2: the Boying, But I think it's the more popular physician
Speaker 2: is to go against them, to say, like, you know,
Speaker 2: like you had a company that you know, used to
Speaker 2: be run by engineers and had engineers like on the
Speaker 2: board of directors and now it's all just concerned with
Speaker 2: Wall Street and say, like, you know, you have to change.
Speaker 2: And Boeing is a company that depends on government money, right,
Speaker 2: and like if you're going to get like and all
Speaker 2: that government money one way or another, you know, you
Speaker 2: have to like live up to certain standards. Both as
Speaker 2: an economic populis seing, but I think also just as
Speaker 2: the sort of you know, build back better agenda, right,
Speaker 2: we want America to be like competent again. We want
Speaker 2: to be America to be that great manufacturing power. And
Speaker 2: as president, I'm gonna like call out Boying, and I'm
Speaker 2: gonna call out the airlines because the way they're been
Speaker 2: running stuff since COVID, like it's a disgrace, and I
Speaker 2: think a lot of people are angry about it. As
Speaker 2: I mentioned earlier, I was pretty pleased with the overdraft thing,
Speaker 2: because that is a sign of an administration that's willing
Speaker 2: to pick a fight with the banks. Right, so you
Speaker 2: have to just like pick out like five or six
Speaker 2: villains that are not just Trump, but like these corporate villains.
Speaker 2: And I think then you tiey with Trump. It's not
Speaker 2: just you're gonna get Trump back in. But Trump is
Speaker 2: a pony's he says, he's like for the people that
Speaker 2: he'll never pick these fights, will pick these fights.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's a really good point, this idea
Speaker 1: that Democrats can actually be economic populous in a way
Speaker 1: that Republicans can't because they have no interest in being it.
Speaker 1: And it is like true, right that Democrats are a
Speaker 1: populous You don't do these things unless you believe in
Speaker 1: helping people write. So I do think that's a really point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I think there has actually been
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff, you know, maybe not as much
Speaker 2: as I've liked or as many of your listeners would like,
Speaker 2: but there has been stuff that Biden has been doing,
Speaker 2: you know, Like I mentioned Lisa Khan, who's the chair
Speaker 2: woman of the Federal Trade Commission, Like she's been like
Speaker 2: doing some pretty serious anti monopoly. Stop that's like really
Speaker 2: gotten corporate America angry at her. If I were her,
Speaker 2: I would take out a restraining order against the Wall
Speaker 2: Street Journal because they are obsessed with her, like like
Speaker 2: scores of article. If this were like civilian person, you'd
Speaker 2: be saying, like, okay, you can't get within like eighty
Speaker 2: feet of her, right, But they're there on behalf of
Speaker 2: corporate America. And I don't see why the Democrats students say,
Speaker 2: we appointed this person super confident, a real fighter, and
Speaker 2: she's like making the corporations mad as hell and they
Speaker 2: ate her, and this is our fighter. So yeah, I mean,
Speaker 2: I think that sort of fighting message will help Biden
Speaker 2: a lot. And I think it's a message that actually
Speaker 2: has the virtue of being consistent with the facts, Like
Speaker 2: it has the virtue of like you're actually trying to
Speaker 2: sell something that's true. We talked about the polls, right
Speaker 2: there is like reason three pessimism. I don't want to
Speaker 2: be like a Pollyanna, and the prospect of another Trump
Speaker 2: presidency you should terrify us. It's going to be the end.
Speaker 2: It's going to be like a period of turmoil in
Speaker 2: America we've never seen. And the poles are tight, and
Speaker 2: it's going to be tight in the fall. But the
Speaker 2: Democrats continue to like overperform in the sort of special elections.
Speaker 2: They just won one down in Florida.
Speaker 1: Yeah, state House.
Speaker 2: Yeah, state, they flipped that. Actually, I think Florida is
Speaker 2: kind of an interesting thing. Is it's something that sort
Speaker 2: of like fell out of the grasp of the Democrats
Speaker 2: starting in twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen. But I think that DeSantis,
Speaker 2: you know, and trying to become president has like gone
Speaker 2: so far to the right that he's actually like activated
Speaker 2: Democratic Party.
Speaker 1: There. It's Spran back all over again. Right, I mean
Speaker 1: it's Arizona, It's Sheriff Joe right.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. So I think that there is, you know,
Speaker 2: ways in which one can win back people, and I
Speaker 2: think that there's a ways in which the real and
Speaker 2: the unpopularity of both Trump and the Republican Party is
Speaker 2: like a big factor. So I honestly think if it's
Speaker 2: a domestic policy issue, Biden's in good shape, like on
Speaker 2: foreign policy. Like I'm not a complect hater of Biden either,
Speaker 2: but I think it's the unfortunate thing is that there's
Speaker 2: a lot of people who are instinctively think like, if
Speaker 2: there's wars, you want like a tough guy, Right, there's
Speaker 2: stuff to criticize in Biden or whatever, But I just
Speaker 2: worry about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Joe Biden is not the first person to get
Speaker 1: into trouble with this situation, which is a completely unsolvable solve.
Speaker 1: Everything is just a humanitarian crisis everywhere. It is a
Speaker 1: really interesting moment. I think your point though about economic populism,
Speaker 1: and I mean even like, for example, the Chips Act,
Speaker 1: which nobody cares about but is actually humongous, right, is
Speaker 1: this idea that they brought all this manufacturing back to
Speaker 1: the United States, which was Trump. He said it was
Speaker 1: going to bring things that he didn't and couldn't have.
Speaker 1: You know, coal, which is very very expensive. It's bad
Speaker 1: for the climate, yes, but it's also quite expensive. Right,
Speaker 1: It's like you might as well just not do that
Speaker 1: and just like cheaper, it's going to bring back coal
Speaker 1: and make coal great again. That's a great example though,
Speaker 1: like Chips is actually bringing back manufacturing to America in
Speaker 1: a way that we hadn't in a long time. And
Speaker 1: I think that's quite quite interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I know, I think that's quite interesting. I
Speaker 2: think another thing that democrats can lean on is labor,
Speaker 2: Like there has been a real you know, revival of
Speaker 2: labor in terms of like labor having a fighting spirit,
Speaker 2: and they've been like you know, these big strikes, and
Speaker 2: the unions have these big strikes that have been union
Speaker 2: victories like of a type that we haven't really seen
Speaker 2: since the seventies. And I think, like, you know, like
Speaker 2: if Joe Biden is like up there with the autoworkers,
Speaker 2: even with like you know, the Hollywood people, the writers
Speaker 2: and actors and with the team stars who are a
Speaker 2: big part of that Hollywood strike, and in terms of support,
Speaker 2: like just say you have a president that as the
Speaker 2: back of labor, that supported labor during the auto strike,
Speaker 2: You're not going to get that with Trump really emphasize
Speaker 2: the differences in ser like economic and material terms. I
Speaker 2: think this is like a debate among the left. Like
Speaker 2: there's some people who say, like, well, Trump's streatch to
Speaker 2: democracy is bad enough that should convince people. In theory,
Speaker 2: I kind of agree with you, but like actually like
Speaker 2: to motivate people to get people to vote, get out there,
Speaker 2: like if you can actually show like real material things
Speaker 2: that you're making a difference on to show these like
Speaker 2: this is a union resident. I think that would mobilize
Speaker 2: people because you know, it's actually interesting you look at
Speaker 2: that you're talking about polls. You look at the polls.
Speaker 2: All the institutions, the Supreme Court, the media, the military,
Speaker 2: they're all down in terms of public trust. The only
Speaker 2: institution that's like risen in public trust in the last
Speaker 2: ten years is unions. And they're actually like added on
Speaker 2: at all time high. So why not make it clear
Speaker 2: like one party is the party of unions and one
Speaker 2: party is not.
Speaker 1: It's really good point. It's funny because we always think about,
Speaker 1: like I always right about the Supreme Court and how
Speaker 1: their approval rating is literally every day man there gets lower.
Speaker 2: Yeah, historic lows, historic lows for the Supreme Court.
Speaker 1: Right, And like people hate Congress, they hit the President
Speaker 1: and they hit this, they hit that, but they do
Speaker 1: like unions. And that's after the Koch brothers spending a
Speaker 1: lot of money trying to say, you know, unions don't
Speaker 1: there's so much corporate money fighting unions. There's one thing
Speaker 1: they don't like.
Speaker 2: It's unions, that's right, that's right. Yeah, And I think
Speaker 2: that you want a wedge issue where the Republicans can
Speaker 2: join you like like Trump did try he's the lowest
Speaker 2: part of the most Republicans. He tried to make it
Speaker 2: look like he was supporting the autoworkers, but he actually
Speaker 2: you know, went to a non union.
Speaker 1: Shop, right, so trumpy.
Speaker 2: And the thing with the unions is they're good educational enterprises.
Speaker 2: Like you know, they don't just go on strike. They
Speaker 2: have like meetings at membership and they tell you up
Speaker 2: the union official, tactive members, and of the trust of
Speaker 2: members because they're the guys. You know, if you get
Speaker 2: in trouble with the boss, your union stewart is the
Speaker 2: person who's going to have your back. Mobilize the unions
Speaker 2: and get this message out that there's a fundamental difference
Speaker 2: and that Trump is a phony. I think that'll make
Speaker 2: a big difference. I'm not totally like pessimistic, like I think,
Speaker 2: you know, things are a lot closer than I would
Speaker 2: like them to be, just on the issues. I think
Speaker 2: Biden has a lot of advantages. The other thing is
Speaker 2: just to mobilize the whole party, like not just have it,
Speaker 2: you know, like Biden. But you know, you have like
Speaker 2: you know, like Obama Warren, you have Bernie Sanders, you
Speaker 2: have all these very popular governors like Whitmer. If you
Speaker 2: mobilize the whole party, I think this is a winnable fight. Like,
Speaker 2: I don't want any of your listeners to like, you know,
Speaker 2: let's throw the towel right now, because that's not where
Speaker 2: we're at.
Speaker 1: Jeet here, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 2: Oh it's always a pleasure.
Speaker 1: John Allen is a senior national politics reporter at NBC
Speaker 1: and author of Lucky How Joe Biden Barely won the presidency.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Fast Politics, John Allen.
Speaker 3: WELLI, John Fust. I'm so happy to be back.
Speaker 1: With you, so happy to have you. First of all,
Speaker 1: we're friends, which is so and you know, since it's
Speaker 1: silly season, we don't get to see any of our
Speaker 1: friends because it's this insane primary season or whatever.
Speaker 3: We're real friends.
Speaker 1: We're real friends.
Speaker 3: I set you the holiday card, my family's holiday card,
Speaker 3: and I would.
Speaker 1: Say the real data point here is my kids were like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's the Allens. But so let's talk about you went
Speaker 1: from you were in Iowa, now you're in New Hampshire.
Speaker 1: You know this is not a normal primary season. Let's
Speaker 1: talk about Iowa. First, you were there, I mean the
Speaker 1: turnout was slightly less than half of what it was
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, But was the enthusiasm the same. I mean,
Speaker 1: sort of talk us through if you saw a difference
Speaker 1: on the ground.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think there was a little bit
Speaker 3: less enthusiasm, partially because there wasn't much competition. I mean,
Speaker 3: it was very clear that Trump was going to win
Speaker 3: by a lot. But the other thing that I do
Speaker 3: think affected the turnout is that it was like end
Speaker 3: below twenty below zero, like depending on where you were
Speaker 3: and what time of the day. And you know, there's
Speaker 3: ice and snow like blanketing the entire state. I mean
Speaker 3: even the cities where they have like snowplows, you know,
Speaker 3: ready to go, and you know municipal governments, like the
Speaker 3: streets were like kicked in like inches of height, so
Speaker 3: it was really dangerous to go out. And then I
Speaker 3: think that affected turn out as well.
Speaker 1: But also I think the sense that it was a
Speaker 1: feed a complay, right, I mean, the polling showed that
Speaker 1: nobody was going to displace Trump.
Speaker 3: Right when you say this is an unusual primary season,
Speaker 3: I think it's partially it feels like an unusual primary
Speaker 3: season because Donald Trump is effectively an incumbent. I'm not
Speaker 3: saying that he won the twenty twenty election, but he
Speaker 3: has won the Republican nomination twice. Some ridiculous percentage of
Speaker 3: his party believes that the or at least says that
Speaker 3: they believe the election was rigged last time. He is
Speaker 3: running as an incumbent in this primary, and yet there
Speaker 3: are relatively serious people who were running against him, and
Speaker 3: that's an unusual hybrid thing. Usually serious people do not
Speaker 3: run against incumbents in their own party.
Speaker 4: Which is what we're seeing in Biden world right, and
Speaker 4: the way it's playing out with the electorate here is
Speaker 4: much more like an incumbent running against non serious people
Speaker 4: or somewhat serious people, but not in an open seat
Speaker 4: for the Republican nomination.
Speaker 3: And so that, you know, it shouldn't be terribly surprising
Speaker 3: that Trump was the dominant figure in his party. It
Speaker 3: has been since they arrived on the stage eight or
Speaker 3: nine years ago. Couldn't be terribly surprising that he's dispatching
Speaker 3: for tenders to the throne.
Speaker 1: Yes, I think that makes a lot of sense. I mean,
Speaker 1: I also think like they're not offering anything but a
Speaker 1: sort of mimeograph of the og right.
Speaker 3: That's definitely a uh you know where jasanis is. I
Speaker 3: think it's where Ramaswami was. Christie was obviously very different.
Speaker 3: You know, Nikki Haley tried to shoot thread and needle
Speaker 3: a little bit where you know, she says trumb was
Speaker 3: the right guy at the right time, but now it's
Speaker 3: a different time, and so we don't need that guy anymore.
Speaker 3: And there's a lot of work being done by you know,
Speaker 3: by the idea that she's offerating something different, which she
Speaker 3: isn't terribly different from a policy perspective, but different enough
Speaker 3: for the rest of the Republicans to look at her
Speaker 3: and yell Democrat, and different enough for the Democrats to
Speaker 3: look at her and be like, eh, she'd be better
Speaker 3: than Trump.
Speaker 1: Right. I want to talk to you about this because
Speaker 1: this segue is right into the veepstakes, right.
Speaker 3: I think Kamala Harris is going to get it. I
Speaker 3: think Kamala Harris will be Joe Biden's choice exactly.
Speaker 1: Just to be clear, Yeah, but in this veepstakes on
Speaker 1: the Republican side, there's a lot of anxiety in Trump
Speaker 1: world that Trump might pic Nick, right, will you talk
Speaker 1: us through that.
Speaker 3: I think there's a lot of anxiety in Trump world
Speaker 3: about all of the people, and there's a lot of
Speaker 3: jockeying to be the person, and there's only one person
Speaker 3: that's going to make that decision. I mean, that's always
Speaker 3: the case, but it's even more so with Trump that
Speaker 3: trying to figure out what's going to influence him is
Speaker 3: a real guessing game. And I think the more active
Speaker 3: people are and try to impress him or to appear
Speaker 3: to be oppressing him for that reason, the more likely
Speaker 3: it is that he's going to decide they're not the
Speaker 3: only person. But who knows. I mean, I think go
Speaker 3: factor in a couple couple things, like number one, is
Speaker 3: this somebody you know who basically would try to stop
Speaker 3: the certification of election, Like not that necessarily would come
Speaker 3: up again, but the person with that kind of loyalty
Speaker 3: that no matter what he tries, no matter what his
Speaker 3: interpretation of the Constitution is, that this person will be
Speaker 3: with him compell or high water of the people that
Speaker 3: hit that qualification. I think he's gonna kind of look
Speaker 3: in his mind's eye, as he always does at the stage,
Speaker 3: and think to himself, who's the person that looks best right.
Speaker 1: Who looks the most like in the TV version, right.
Speaker 3: Right, go looks the best mash up against Kabla Harrison.
Speaker 3: I don't mean physically looks the best, but like just
Speaker 3: matches up well, you know, and we'll match up in
Speaker 3: the mind's eye of voters. And so, you know, I
Speaker 3: think there was a point where that could have been
Speaker 3: nikkiy Haley, and maybe it could be again, she has
Speaker 3: touched a part of the Republican Party that Donald Trump
Speaker 3: is alienated and is obviously, you know, appealing to a
Speaker 3: lot of independence. But you know, I think you're more
Speaker 3: likely to get somebody who's just like, yeah, traditionally in
Speaker 3: that Trump mode, like Tim Scott or Christine Nome or
Speaker 3: somebody like that. But who knows, right.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think the idea of ascribing logic to
Speaker 1: the way Trump works, there's no evidence to support the
Speaker 1: supposition that logic is involved in Trump's decision making.
Speaker 3: Well, I think the way that I would look at
Speaker 3: it is that his decisions aren't made along the line
Speaker 3: the traditional lines for like a vice president. They don't
Speaker 3: necessarily track, you know, with generations of politicians have done.
Speaker 3: You know, like, I just think his metrics are different.
Speaker 3: He's not sitting there with some law firm like going like,
Speaker 3: all right, let's bet their background.
Speaker 1: I mean, yes, I feel like we're having a conversation
Speaker 1: about him like he's a normal political candidate, and I
Speaker 1: think we should pause because even though, and again I
Speaker 1: know you're not your nonpartisan and on the straight news side,
Speaker 1: So I'm not going to ask you to say anything here,
Speaker 1: but I'm just going to say, in my mind, treating
Speaker 1: him like a normal candidate. Well, it is true. There
Speaker 1: are certain things about him, like he's going through the
Speaker 1: caucus in a normal way, his plan for what he
Speaker 1: will do if he gets re elected, and the legal
Speaker 1: challenges that he's facing make him an unprecedented candidate.
Speaker 3: Fair, Yeah, I mean I don't think that's a partisan
Speaker 3: thing to say. I think he is unprecedented in American
Speaker 3: politics for a variety of reasons, and certainly the facing
Speaker 3: criminal indictment and three jurisdictions one of them twice is
Speaker 3: one of the ways in which he is non traditional
Speaker 3: or unprecedented as a candidate. That's not partisan to me.
Speaker 3: You know, the question like to treat Donald Trump differently
Speaker 3: as a separate question that but absolutely there's never been
Speaker 3: anything like in American politics.
Speaker 1: So let me ask you. One of the things that
Speaker 1: Trump has been doing is he's been going to all
Speaker 1: of these court cases and he didn't go to the
Speaker 1: Eugene Carrol case when the jury was deciding and they
Speaker 1: voted in several case they consider him to be guilty
Speaker 1: of raping Egene.
Speaker 3: Carol, right, sexually assaulting.
Speaker 1: Sexually assaulting. This jury has found that, right, So now
Speaker 1: we're in this sort of damages phase and actually now
Speaker 1: we're enough. Did he libelhar one of the things that
Speaker 1: he's been doing. And you can argue it's smart, you
Speaker 1: can argue it's done. But he has been trying really
Speaker 1: hard to make this case a case that has tried
Speaker 1: in the media and not his social media and not
Speaker 1: in the court. Right, He's tried really hard to say
Speaker 1: this is about me, and they're cure to get me,
Speaker 1: but they're really trying to get you or make it
Speaker 1: a larger issue that isn't about his situation with Egen.
Speaker 1: And I'm wondering, I think that is sort of plan
Speaker 1: right now, as much as he has a plan for anything,
Speaker 1: is that he is going to be at a lot
Speaker 1: of these hearings, right, yeah, I mean that way, I mean,
Speaker 1: what's your sense on how that play is well, at.
Speaker 3: Least in a primary, plays very well. For there's nothing
Speaker 3: that has, you know, has entered his base more than
Speaker 3: the idea that Donald Trump is being unfairly targeted. So
Speaker 3: I think he likes being in a court room. I mean,
Speaker 3: I'm sure he doesn't love sitting there listening to judges
Speaker 3: tab shut his mouth, but it has been politically good
Speaker 3: for him with his base, and I think he understands
Speaker 3: that in order to win the presidential election, he needs
Speaker 3: his base super energized. He needs them angry, He needs
Speaker 3: them to believe that not only is he being treated unfairly,
Speaker 3: but he is, you know, as he likes to say,
Speaker 3: a vessel for them, and he likes to say that
Speaker 3: the government's going after him to go after them. And
Speaker 3: that's his argument making that something that is fresh in
Speaker 3: the minds of his supporters is important to his electoral strategy.
Speaker 1: Can we talk a little bit about what's happening in
Speaker 1: Congress right now? Sure, I know you're in New Hampshire.
Speaker 3: I'm touring the coldest places in the world in the
Speaker 3: winter time.
Speaker 1: There are some really good pancakes, right, There's some good
Speaker 1: I had the best little stuff grapes this morning. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean New Hampshire is like a jam.
Speaker 3: Really the syrup that's really the syrup that does it.
Speaker 1: So let's talk about Congress. We're in really interesting moment
Speaker 1: I think in Congress where the Senate wants a border
Speaker 1: deal whatever that looks like, more than the House wants
Speaker 1: a border deal.
Speaker 3: The reason that we haven't had comprehensive immigration reform, and
Speaker 3: we've been really debating it intensely for the last basically
Speaker 3: twenty years. The reason we haven't had that is that
Speaker 3: it is politically beneficial to the Republicans to not have
Speaker 3: its tall and at time right now, at least, and
Speaker 3: at the times it has politically been beneficial to the
Speaker 3: Democrats to not have it solved. When George W. Bush
Speaker 3: was president, Barack Obaba voted for a poison pill in
Speaker 3: the Senate that basically killed comprehensive immigration reform. The two
Speaker 3: parties like this fight right maybe more than anything else,
Speaker 3: speaks to the split in their values. It's something that
Speaker 3: generates money, like donations, something that generates votes.
Speaker 1: Right on the Republican side well.
Speaker 3: But also on the Democratic side. Right now, the Democrats
Speaker 3: are hiding from it a little more than than they might.
Speaker 3: You know, it probably depends on how much the public
Speaker 3: sees at any given moment on documented immigration as a
Speaker 3: problem versus a positive, and that probably connects pretty closely
Speaker 3: to what the economy looks like in the US at
Speaker 3: any given time. But there are times when this is,
Speaker 3: you know, an issue that's very beneficial for Democrats, or
Speaker 3: at least they didn't want George W. Bush to get it.
Speaker 1: I think, I mean, immigration is a really interesting issue
Speaker 1: because I feel like there's such a there's been so
Speaker 1: much can kicking on it, and there's been on both
Speaker 1: sides for sure. Right now though we're in this tenuous
Speaker 1: position where it's going to be a third cr signed
Speaker 1: which will keep the government from shutting down, sounds like,
Speaker 1: but the Ukraine funding borders. I mean, this will be
Speaker 1: a package if it works. What I think is a
Speaker 1: little bit interesting about this moment is it seems as
Speaker 1: if Mike Johnson, as much as he is in the
Speaker 1: same almost identical situation to Kevin McCarthy, he seems like
Speaker 1: he's not being held hostile in quite the same way
Speaker 1: to the right now, to the far right now. He
Speaker 1: may still end up being held hostage by them, but
Speaker 1: he does. He's behaving as if he has more leeway.
Speaker 3: He does have more leeway, And I think there are
Speaker 3: a couple of reasons for that. Number One, they already
Speaker 3: just got rid of a speaker.
Speaker 1: Right, he can't do that too many times.
Speaker 3: You can't do it every week. He knows that there
Speaker 3: is some latitude. I also think that the reason that
Speaker 3: Kevin McCarthy's no longer the Speaker of the House is personal.
Speaker 3: They stopped liking him, they stopped crossing him, or whatever
Speaker 3: it was. But like, there are different reasons, and I'm
Speaker 3: sure some of them would based on policy, but like
Speaker 3: the truth of the matter is, there's not much difference
Speaker 3: between the way Mike Johnson will play this in the
Speaker 3: way Kevin McCarthy will play this, except for that Kevin
Speaker 3: McCarthy was a little bit more experienced and might have
Speaker 3: the benefit of that experience. And you know, Johnson stilled
Speaker 3: feeling his way out a little bit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I mean it's quite interesting, but it does
Speaker 1: seem like there is a schism in the party between
Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell's saying he wants a border Deale, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: do you think there is? And again, this is a
Speaker 1: supposition as much as anything. But like, do you think
Speaker 1: there's a world in which Mitch McConnell has less to
Speaker 1: lose and so is even less motivated by Trump and
Speaker 1: his anxiety about Trump?
Speaker 3: I do think he has less to lose. O. Look,
Speaker 3: he's already gotten everything he wanted out of life, you.
Speaker 2: Know what I mean.
Speaker 3: He's been set up the majority leader or whatever. So
Speaker 3: like on a personal level, he's reached the apen.
Speaker 1: It seems like this is it for him, right.
Speaker 3: I think he wants to get the policy done. I
Speaker 3: think he thinks it's good to strengthen the border. I
Speaker 3: think he's an old school politician who's like, when you
Speaker 3: see an opportunity to get the thing done that your
Speaker 3: voters want done, you should do it. And so like,
Speaker 3: for example, you know the Supreme Court stuff, you know,
Speaker 3: like the judges the Supreme Court. He wasn't like, Oh,
Speaker 3: we're going to appoint these people and then they're going
Speaker 3: to undo Roe versus Weight, and then we're going to
Speaker 3: lose a bunch of elections. He's like, the people that
Speaker 3: elected me in the Senate are pro life, and the
Speaker 3: people who elected them want a zero overturned. And so
Speaker 3: we're going to push that to get the thing done.
Speaker 3: There's something classic and predictable and traditional about that that
Speaker 3: is different from the modern Republican leaders that have succeeded
Speaker 3: or at least you know, have grown up since Mitch
Speaker 3: McConnell first came to power. So like, it makes sense
Speaker 3: that you would want a border deal. Also, even if
Speaker 3: they get a border deal, it's still an issue that
Speaker 3: his candilates can use in, you know, in the campaign
Speaker 3: trop because I don't think anybody's going to see a
Speaker 3: border deal and then immediately immigration's going to stop.
Speaker 1: I mean, Mike Johnson does have like an opportunity here
Speaker 1: to show Republicans doing stuff, you know, like he really
Speaker 1: has these far right Republicans who want to burn it
Speaker 1: all down. From what I understand from people I've talked to,
Speaker 1: I know, you'll be shocked to hear that. I don't
Speaker 1: talk to any Republicans in the House, but there is
Speaker 1: a sense that the people who are a Republican, who
Speaker 1: are quote unquote normal Republicans are furious with the heart
Speaker 1: right because they just want to get stuff done and
Speaker 1: they're irritated that these people have made them look bad.
Speaker 3: I would say members from Swing districts that are on
Speaker 3: the you know, on the chopping.
Speaker 1: Block, like Michael Lawler.
Speaker 3: They're not happy with just blocking things and they're not
Speaker 3: happy with messaging boats. But if you're like Johnson and
Speaker 3: you want to get stuff done, like your best route
Speaker 3: is to like have a bunch of those messaging boats
Speaker 3: and like let all these let all the super conservatives
Speaker 3: like get their you know, get their day on the
Speaker 3: House floor and then ask them to vote for the
Speaker 3: things that they don't like and say, like, look, we
Speaker 3: put your stuff up even if it failed, and you
Speaker 3: could do that through an amendment processes. It's one of
Speaker 3: the sad things that's been lost in recent years, with
Speaker 3: you know, a ton of turnover in the House and
Speaker 3: primaries and stuff, is that leaders have lost the sense
Speaker 3: of how to legislate and the deals that you can
Speaker 3: make and the ways in which you can make your
Speaker 3: members happy or satisfy them enough. I feel like the
Speaker 3: floor is not used as well as it could be.
Speaker 1: John Allen, thank you so much. Also, Seersucker Day, right,
Speaker 1: I guess it's still.
Speaker 3: Going not in New Hampshire Soccer here weird plea.
Speaker 1: Seer Soccer Day. Heather Williams as president of the Democratic
Speaker 1: Legislative Campaign Committee. Welcome to fat Politics, Heather, Thank you.
Speaker 5: I'm very excited to be here.
Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about this twenty twenty four
Speaker 1: memo brus. Tell us what you do and why you are.
Speaker 5: Here would be too. So the DLCC is the party
Speaker 5: committee responsible for identifying ways to build power in the states.
Speaker 5: We work across states to really articulate and identify, using data,
Speaker 5: where the greatest opportunities are to build power. And what
Speaker 5: we're seeing is the states are where things are getting done.
Speaker 5: It's where the Democratic Party's agenda is geting accoplished, why
Speaker 5: the president's agenda is geting accomplished. It's where we're protecting
Speaker 5: our rights, and we are on the forefront of that work.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about that, because on the Republican side, we see,
Speaker 1: for example, in Texas, Abbot killing migrants. I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: not laughing, I'm just shocked that that's happening. Revernor Abbot
Speaker 1: took away the right to choose right. I mean, that
Speaker 1: was what they did with SBA. So we do see
Speaker 1: a precedent for states setting the tone in a larger way.
Speaker 5: Right on the Dobbs decision, crystallized for so many people
Speaker 5: the importance of what was happening in the States, and
Speaker 5: it shed a light on what was going on in
Speaker 5: a way that it just hadn't existed before. And that's
Speaker 5: really important because for a long time, I think the
Speaker 5: States were seen as a laboratory of democracy, as an
Speaker 5: opportunity to try and test things. Legislation moves very quickly,
Speaker 5: things could happen fast, and what we've seen since the
Speaker 5: Dobbs decision is a spotlight and Republicans refusing to listen
Speaker 5: to their constituents, to voters on the issues that they
Speaker 5: care about and what they want to see action on,
Speaker 5: and instead are using their power to advance their own
Speaker 5: personal ideals and agenda right.
Speaker 1: And I think also takeaway rights right. I mean SBA
Speaker 1: is a great example of taking away rights like this
Speaker 1: was a right that it was entrined in the Constitution,
Speaker 1: taken away by a state legislature.
Speaker 5: Absolutely, the same thing happened in North Carolina when there
Speaker 5: was a party switcher and the governor lost the video power,
Speaker 5: and the first thing Republicans did when they had enough
Speaker 5: power to do so was be an abortion. This is
Speaker 5: the first thing that they're doing everywhere.
Speaker 1: So let's talk a little bit about like I've certainly
Speaker 1: seen a Michigan. They've worked really hard at the state legislature.
Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 5: Michigan has been a legislative battleground for a long time,
Speaker 5: and we worked really closely with them in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 5: We built a trifecta. It is a narrow margin trifecta,
Speaker 5: but it is one that took their power very seriously,
Speaker 5: and they delivered for the voters. They delivered on their promises,
Speaker 5: and they went into their first legislative session as a
Speaker 5: trifecta with a really clear agenda, and they made so
Speaker 5: much progress in Michigan. They advanced and secured abortion rights,
Speaker 5: they moved common sense gun legislation, they made their labor
Speaker 5: laws so much better. They just did so much good
Speaker 5: with what they had. And now we're in a position
Speaker 5: where the state Senate is not on the ballot in
Speaker 5: twenty twenty four, but the state houses, and they are
Speaker 5: going to prove their case to the voters. They're going
Speaker 5: to talk about all that they've accomplished, and they're certainly
Speaker 5: going to be asked to return to that trifecta in November.
Speaker 1: When it comes to state legislature, what are the rights
Speaker 1: that you can enshrine for people?
Speaker 5: Oh, this is such a great question. The power of
Speaker 5: the state legislature is pretty vast. You know. When we
Speaker 5: think about in context of this decision and where our
Speaker 5: rights are, you're seeing Democrats and the legislature at vance
Speaker 5: or secure our rights around abortion and reproductive healthcare, around
Speaker 5: access to contraceptives, around voting rights, around allowing us to
Speaker 5: love who we want to love and marry who we
Speaker 5: want to marry, Around safety and schools, around safety in
Speaker 5: our community. So many of these fundamental rights have a
Speaker 5: state based component to them. And with the inaction in
Speaker 5: Congress and the deep need to address issues in this country,
Speaker 5: all of the action is happening in the states. And
Speaker 5: you see such a stark contrast of not just priorities
Speaker 5: but action when you look at and compare Florida and
Speaker 5: what they are doing in their legislature in their state
Speaker 5: versus you know, Minnesota or Michigan New Democratic trifectas and
Speaker 5: what they are doing.
Speaker 1: So talk to me about Minnesota, because that is very
Speaker 1: exciting in my mind.
Speaker 5: Minnesota has done, you know, a really incredible job. The
Speaker 5: Senate is on the ballot again in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 5: The Houses, they really took, what I would say, and
Speaker 5: I'm from Minnesota, like a very pragmatic approach to their legislating.
Speaker 5: They looked at the things that we're going to touch
Speaker 5: people's lives, that we're going to give them some relief
Speaker 5: that we're really going to affect it. And the thing
Speaker 5: that I always like to talk about in Minnesota is
Speaker 5: they made sure that all kids had access to lunch.
Speaker 5: And it is governing through that lens, through understanding that
Speaker 5: you have the power to not just make a difference,
Speaker 5: but to do things that have a true impact to
Speaker 5: our lives. That represents the kind of community and government
Speaker 5: that we're actually looking for, that cares for people. And
Speaker 5: they accomplish that and so much more in Minnesota.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about that, because the Republican case against free
Speaker 1: school lunches, free school breakfast is that it is like
Speaker 1: some real backward stuff. I mean, you know, we don't
Speaker 1: want to end up paying for someone who could afford lunch.
Speaker 1: I mean, they really have no argument against feeding hungry kids.
Speaker 1: Where else are you guys feeding hungry kids? Where else
Speaker 1: is the legislature doing those kind of anti poverty things
Speaker 1: that seem to not get the spotlight but are so
Speaker 1: profoundly important.
Speaker 5: I think you're seeing elements of this across all of
Speaker 5: our democratic chambers, and you're seeing advocating for this in
Speaker 5: chambers where Democrats are in the minority. This is the
Speaker 5: kind of work that Democrats are doing. Of course, the
Speaker 5: attention right is always on the ability to expand abortion
Speaker 5: access or to remove an ancient law off the books.
Speaker 5: That is what gets the spotlight. But when you go
Speaker 5: a layer deeper, you see these very pragmatic, smart approaches
Speaker 5: to ensuring that our communities are strong, that we're looking
Speaker 5: through a lens of justice and people feel included, and
Speaker 5: that we are using our resources to help people where
Speaker 5: we can. And we see that all over the place,
Speaker 5: and we see Republicans fighting against it. Yet they are
Speaker 5: the first ones to offer vouchers where they may be
Speaker 5: doing the exact same thing for private schools, right the
Speaker 5: person who could afford it is given a voucher, But
Speaker 5: we couldn't do the same for school lunch.
Speaker 1: I would love you to just explain to our listeners
Speaker 1: why you think that Republicans are happy to support schools
Speaker 1: that are not public in a way that they don't
Speaker 1: with public schools.
Speaker 5: I think what we're seeing across Republicans and the way
Speaker 5: that they are governing is that they are doing it
Speaker 5: for them, and they're very narrow communities. Their interests are
Speaker 5: not for the people. They may not know where the
Speaker 5: communities they are not a member of. They cannot seem
Speaker 5: to comprehend how to even say, do you know what,
Speaker 5: I'm not a member of this community, but I understand
Speaker 5: that this thing is hard. Let me make it easier.
Speaker 5: Let me make sure that you are included in our
Speaker 5: community and that we are protecting you. Instead, it's looked
Speaker 5: through the lens of how do we hold on to
Speaker 5: the power that we have we meet in this office,
Speaker 5: but also me in this community, and how do we
Speaker 5: expand that power so that we keep our power for
Speaker 5: a very long time and we use it to tell
Speaker 5: other people how to live their lives.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the legislating that you do, explain to us what
Speaker 1: that sort of centralized legislation means. So is that involved
Speaker 1: in getting Democrats elected at the state level? Is that
Speaker 1: helping to find candidates? I mean, what does that look like?
Speaker 5: The great question we are the party committee, the Political
Speaker 5: Committee that is looking across all of these legislative elections,
Speaker 5: and so we are supporters and tieging partners and we
Speaker 5: share resources right with these campaigns where we can build power.
Speaker 5: And so it's everything from supporting candidate recruitment to making
Speaker 5: sure that we've got the best opportunities to communicate with
Speaker 5: voters at the door, which is such a cornerstone of
Speaker 5: our campaigns, those real conversations with voters in the community,
Speaker 5: to know the paid communication at the very end. And
Speaker 5: I think if you folks are interested in learning more,
Speaker 5: they can head to dealcc dot org. But we are
Speaker 5: really in it all the way.
Speaker 1: Let's talk for a minute about what sort of legislatures,
Speaker 1: state houses you're looking at now, what states are up,
Speaker 1: what the landscape looks like where you're hopeful, where you're
Speaker 1: not hopeful. So first talk to us about what are
Speaker 1: your kind of focuses right now.
Speaker 5: This year there is a lot of overlap with the
Speaker 5: legislative map and the paths of the presidency and some
Speaker 5: of these really key states white races. So the states
Speaker 5: and I think the opportunities are going to feel quite familiar.
Speaker 5: We've got real opportunities to challenge Republican control in Arizona
Speaker 5: and in New Hampshire, and we have a need to
Speaker 5: return our neuro democratic majorities in Michigan in the Pennsylvania House,
Speaker 5: and then return that trifecta in Minnesota. And then the
Speaker 5: sort of third thing is we kind of think both
Speaker 5: an immediate wrong on the power ladder, if you will,
Speaker 5: and also kind of long term, we're looking at places
Speaker 5: where we can secure a democratic governor's veto power, understanding
Speaker 5: how important that is in Kansas and in Wisconsin and
Speaker 5: in North Carolina. And then we've got a list of
Speaker 5: places where we're really looking to gain ground.
Speaker 1: So I want to like really drill down on this
Speaker 1: because you are the person to talk about this, and
Speaker 1: so I want a lot of our listeners are sitting
Speaker 1: there watching Donald Trump really freaked out. I think if
Speaker 1: our listeners are anything like my husband completely freaked out,
Speaker 1: so I think they want to hear exactly what this
Speaker 1: plan is. So the state legislatures that need to that
Speaker 1: can be one are ones like Arizona, right that that
Speaker 1: could be.
Speaker 5: Flipped, that is exactly right, yep, where the Republicans in
Speaker 5: control are vulnerable, and we believe that Democrats have the
Speaker 5: greatest opportunity in twenty twenty four to create a democratic majority.
Speaker 1: And so Arizona has a democratic governor and a democratic
Speaker 1: Secretary of State and a democratic age. So he has
Speaker 1: three Democrats there, but the state House is still Republican.
Speaker 1: And when you have a Republican state house, especially a
Speaker 1: lot of these Republicans, they tend to do a lot
Speaker 1: of things that maybe Democrats wouldn't do to hold on
Speaker 1: to power.
Speaker 5: Right, Yes, that's right. And so in Arizona, the governor,
Speaker 5: Governor Hobbs, who is a former legislator herself.
Speaker 1: Right, and you'll remember she won against Carrie Lake, who
Speaker 1: had made it clear that she did not believe in
Speaker 1: in democracy the way we've done it all this time.
Speaker 2: For it all.
Speaker 5: Yes, that is exactly right. So she is a former
Speaker 5: legislator now the governor, and her power is different with
Speaker 5: a Republican. Her power in being able to proactively execute
Speaker 5: her vision for Arizona to make change is different with
Speaker 5: a Republican legislature. They have to work together and she
Speaker 5: does not have an ability to proactively do things. Now,
Speaker 5: she can obviously use her power in a lot of
Speaker 5: regulatory ways, and there's a lot that she can do,
Speaker 5: but she does not have full power because she does
Speaker 5: not have this state legislature. They are Republicans.
Speaker 1: I just want people to completely understand the situation here.
Speaker 1: If you can flip the state legislature in Arizona, you
Speaker 1: can do things like pre school breakfasts for public school kids.
Speaker 5: Yes, it is exactly what happened in Minnesota and Michigan.
Speaker 5: That is the result of creating democratic power and creating
Speaker 5: new democratic majorities in a state, and Arizona would be
Speaker 5: the next one of those.
Speaker 1: So codify row free school breakfast, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: You'll be able to do that. New Hampshire also has
Speaker 1: a mixed state house, right.
Speaker 5: They're all Republicans right now, there's going to be an
Speaker 5: open governor's race, and the House is an enormous legislative body.
Speaker 5: It's four hundred people in the New Hampshire House, which
Speaker 5: is wild given the size of the state. We are
Speaker 5: really close to a majority there, and I think that
Speaker 5: the New Hampshire Senate is also going to put up
Speaker 5: a really good fight as we move through this election. Okay,
Speaker 5: so New Hampshire, Arizona, those are the greatest places right
Speaker 5: now to create new majorities.
Speaker 1: Explain to us your second theory of the case when
Speaker 1: it comes to preventing super majorities, because that's a really
Speaker 1: important idea that I don't know that people quite understand.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So using North Carolina as an example to sort
Speaker 5: of launch us into what the opportunities are in twenty
Speaker 5: twenty four. In twenty twenty three, there was a party
Speaker 5: switcher who gave Republicans the super majority.
Speaker 1: Ran as a Democrat but changed as soon as she
Speaker 1: got elected.
Speaker 5: That's right, she changed over the summer, and that gave
Speaker 5: Republicans the power to override the governor's veto.
Speaker 1: There, Christen Cinema, Yes, because the governor is is actually
Speaker 1: a Democrat.
Speaker 5: Yes, Governor Cooper. So Governor Cooper in that moment lost
Speaker 5: the veto pen which meant that all of the abortion
Speaker 5: bands that had come to his desk he could veto
Speaker 5: until that moment. And when Republicans gained that power, that
Speaker 5: ability to override his veto, they moved an abortion ban
Speaker 5: and he was unable to veto it. So when we
Speaker 5: think about how to build power in the states, and
Speaker 5: truly what makes legislative elections and work in the state
Speaker 5: so interesting is you've got these different levers that you
Speaker 5: can think about as you're building towards the pinnacle of power,
Speaker 5: which is a democratic trifectam. So we want to make
Speaker 5: sure re elected governors in Kansas Governor Kelly and in
Speaker 5: Wisconsin Governor Evers that they have the veto pun. And
Speaker 5: then in North Carolina there's an open governor's race. We're
Speaker 5: going to believe very strongly that we're going to return
Speaker 5: a governor to North Carolina democratic governor. We want them
Speaker 5: to come in with that veto pen because the legislature
Speaker 5: is so harmful under their Republican control. And so that
Speaker 5: is the how we're wrong by which we are looking
Speaker 5: in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1: Right makes a lot of sense New Hampshire, Arizona. And
Speaker 1: then the three sort of fighting against the supermajority states.
Speaker 5: Are North Carolina, Kansas, Wisconsin, all.
Speaker 1: State houses with Democratic governors who are being foiled by
Speaker 1: Republican state electeds who want to strip them of power. Yes,
Speaker 1: Heather Williams, thank you so much for joining us. I
Speaker 1: hope you'll come back.
Speaker 5: Thank you so much. I loved it.
Speaker 6: No moment ou Jesse canon my junk fast. You know,
Speaker 6: it's like one of Trump's favorite things to do. Is
Speaker 6: like a little bit of like, let me back out
Speaker 6: of this dumb thing I did when I realized I'm
Speaker 6: back into a corner and try to weasel his way
Speaker 6: out of it with some really inept language.
Speaker 3: What are you seeing here with that today?
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know this, but Trump is king,
Speaker 1: and so he needs to be able to shoot someone
Speaker 1: on for the avenue. His supporters already feel that it's
Speaker 1: not a bad thing perhaps to be doing, but Trump
Speaker 1: would really like it if the law also let him
Speaker 1: do that. He's working on it. So that is what
Speaker 1: Trump is bringing the Supreme Court his reign of kingness.
Speaker 1: And for that, Donald Trump, considering himself king is our moment. Offucker.
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday and Friday to hear the best minds
Speaker 1: in politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you
Speaker 1: enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to a friend
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening.