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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Bombshelle.

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Speaker 3: Tonight, in the last hours, a man nabbed in the

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Speaker 3: health Boss assassination with him a ghost gun, a silencer,

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Speaker 3: multiple fake IDs, and a handwritten manifesto attacking the health

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Speaker 3: care industry. Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 4: Earlier this morning, in Altoona, Pennsylvania, members of the Altuona

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Speaker 4: Police Department arrested Luigi Mangioni, a twenty six year old

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Speaker 4: mail on firearms charges. At this time, he is believed

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Speaker 4: to be our person of interest.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 3: In the last hours, a person of interests nabbed in

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Speaker 3: the fatal shooting of healthcare boss Brian Thompson. From what

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Speaker 3: we understand, McDonald's employee and Altoona in western Pennsylvania spotted

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Speaker 3: the guy and thinks he looked like the health Boss assassin,

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Speaker 3: probably trying to use a fake ID in a McDonald's.

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Speaker 3: According to law enforcement and the New York Post, the

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Speaker 3: man being eyed for the cold blooded execution of Brian Thompson.

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Speaker 3: The guy has a gun, a silencer for fake IDs,

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Speaker 3: and other items consistent with what Elie was looking for

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Speaker 3: in the case.

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Speaker 1: But is it him?

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Speaker 3: Does he match this description? According to a McDonald's employee,

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Speaker 3: he does.

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Speaker 2: What else do we know? Where?

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Speaker 3: Is Altoona, Pennsylvania, Western Pennsylvania, two hundred and eighty miles

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Speaker 3: away from Manhattan, a little over a five hour drive.

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Speaker 2: But the man hunt.

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Speaker 3: Across the nation going in every direction from Manhattan. Divers, drones,

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Speaker 3: you name it, all used employed to find the killer

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Speaker 3: of the health care boss. What led to the detainment

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Speaker 3: of this guy? We also understand that in his possession

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Speaker 3: is a New Jersey ID at fake ID, possibly used

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Speaker 3: to check into that Manhattan hostel.

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Speaker 2: In the last hours police press conference listen.

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Speaker 5: A man was taken into custody today at Altuda, Pennsylvania

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Speaker 5: this morning. He has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangioni.

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Speaker 5: He's a mail twenty six years old. He was born

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Speaker 5: and raised in Maryland. We know he has tys to

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Speaker 5: San Francisco, California, and his last known address was Honolulu, Hawaii.

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Speaker 5: He has no prior arrest history in New York. Members

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Speaker 5: of the NYPD Detective Bureau are currently traveling to Pennsylvania

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Speaker 5: with members of the Manhattan District Attorney's Office to interview

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Speaker 5: this subject. This case was brought to a successful conclude

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Speaker 5: usion based on the coordinated effort between numerous NYPD units,

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Speaker 5: including the Intelligence and counter Terrorism Bureau, our federal partners

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Speaker 5: at the FBI, the Manhattan District Attorney's Office, and of course,

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Speaker 5: members of the Altoon of Police Department in Pennsylvania. On Thursday,

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Speaker 5: one day after this crime was committed, the NYPD released

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Speaker 5: a photo of the shooter in this case. This picture

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Speaker 5: was obtained by the NYPD during one of their extensive

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Speaker 5: video canvases. We took that photograph and we asked for

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Speaker 5: the public's health in identifying this subject, and the public responded.

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Speaker 5: Hundreds of tips began to pour into our hotline. Each

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Speaker 5: tip was investigated thoroughly, and we began to release additional

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Speaker 5: photographs as they came into our possession. The NYPD provided

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Speaker 5: these photos to numerous media outlets. Local, national, and international

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Speaker 5: outlets released the photo via television, print, social media, and

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Speaker 5: online content. Luckily, a citizen in Pennsylvania recognized our subject

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Speaker 5: and called local law enforcement of the Altoona Police Department

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Speaker 5: responded to the call and based on their investigation, they

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Speaker 5: notified the NYPD. This investigation is still active and ongoing.

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Speaker 5: Thank you very much.

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Speaker 6: I had a couple of questions about the document that

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Speaker 6: he was found in possession with. Can you go a

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Speaker 6: little bit more in depth about those motivations that you mentioned,

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Speaker 6: was that CEO specifically named in that document? Was there

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Speaker 6: anything more about him wanting to go after others? And

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Speaker 6: also in that document, was there any indication that explains

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Speaker 6: us how the level of detail that he went into

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Speaker 6: killing him, like, is there anything.

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Speaker 5: Else that That document is currently in the possession of

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Speaker 5: the Altoona Police Department as part of their investigation, but

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Speaker 5: just from briefly speaking with them, we don't think that

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Speaker 5: there's any specific threats to other people mentioned in that document,

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Speaker 5: but it does seem that he has some ill will

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Speaker 5: towards corporate America.

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Speaker 7: Can you point to a single linchpin that help practice case.

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Speaker 5: There's numerous lynchpins in this case, and the fact that

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Speaker 5: we've recovered an enormous amount of forensic evidence, an enormous

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Speaker 5: amount of video, and once again with your help and

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Speaker 5: the public SELP so I couldn't. I really couldn't put

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Speaker 5: it on one thing, but if I had to, would

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Speaker 5: be the release of that photograph from the media. We

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Speaker 5: had divers in the ward yesterday that came up negative

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Speaker 5: results the passport. We don't believe that he was planning

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Speaker 5: on doing any traveling at this time. We don't think

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Speaker 5: he at this point our investigation, we don't think he

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Speaker 5: was trying to flee the country.

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Speaker 2: Person at McDonald's, were they buying food? What were they

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Speaker 2: doing at that exact court.

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Speaker 5: He was an employee at the McDonald's.

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Speaker 7: But what was the suspect?

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Speaker 5: He was sitting there reading, Well, the suspect.

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Speaker 7: If you brought back to New York and chards.

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Speaker 5: Here and when, We're going to have to work that

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Speaker 5: out with the Manhattan District Attorney's Office in Altoona, Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 5: He's going to be facing gun charges there, and at

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Speaker 5: some point we'll work out through our tradition, to bring

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Speaker 5: him back to New York to face charges here, working

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Speaker 5: with the Manhattan District Attorney's Office.

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Speaker 7: Hi Nada from the New York Post.

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Speaker 5: I was just hoping to get more details of the

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Speaker 5: capture itself.

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Speaker 1: Did he put up a fight?

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Speaker 2: Did you say through the cops?

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Speaker 4: And we've also recorded that he published online anti health

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Speaker 4: KA industry rantings.

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Speaker 2: Can you share with us some of the services that

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Speaker 2: he posted on.

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Speaker 5: We're still working through his social media. We're going to

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Speaker 5: do a complete scrub of that prelomin earily. Like I said,

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Speaker 5: he seems that he has some ill will tod Corporate America,

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Speaker 5: but that will all come out as part of our investigation.

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Speaker 5: We're not done here. We're still going to be putting

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Speaker 5: this together. We're still going to be working very hard

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Speaker 5: to bring this to a successful conclusion.

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Speaker 3: A ghost gun, a silencer, fake IDs, and a handwritten

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Speaker 3: manifesto attacking the healthcare industry sounds.

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Speaker 1: Like our guy.

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Speaker 2: But what else led to this entertainment in Pennsylvania?

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Speaker 3: Hey, doctor Bethany Marshall joining us are now psychoanalyst out

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Speaker 3: of La, author of deal Breaker. You can see her

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Speaker 3: on Peacott Now Doctor Bethany. The theory that the assassin

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Speaker 3: meant to scatter toy monopoly money over the dead body.

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Speaker 2: That tells me a lot about him.

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Speaker 3: He's got a lot of time sitting in somebody's basement,

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Speaker 3: thinking and plotting.

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Speaker 2: It almost rules out a day job in my mind.

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Speaker 3: But that said, we know he's white male, we know

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Speaker 3: he's got money and a guy that can fund himself

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Speaker 3: cash wise.

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Speaker 2: For nearly two weeks, in Manhattan.

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Speaker 3: We also know that while he may have meant to

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Speaker 3: scatter fake monopoly money all over the dead body, sending

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Speaker 3: a message as if the nine millimeter bullet didn't do that,

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Speaker 3: he didn't leave the money behind. But he did leave

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Speaker 3: behind a water bottle with DNA and fingerprints on it.

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Speaker 2: He left behind.

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Speaker 3: A candy or bar wrapper. He left behind a burner phone.

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Speaker 3: If they can break into that burner flowe burner phone,

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Speaker 3: that is going to be a tremendous source of evidence.

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Speaker 3: But he forgot to strow the money.

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Speaker 7: Ah, Nancy, he forgot it. This guy is obsessional. In

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Speaker 7: the crime world, say methodical, I say obsessional, meaning he

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Speaker 7: has been thinking about this for a long long time.

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Speaker 7: When I have a patient like this come into my

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Speaker 7: Beverly Hills office, they usually are enraged at one person,

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Speaker 7: and that is all they can talk about. What they

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Speaker 7: would like to do, what the what the person's look

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Speaker 7: on their face would be like, you know, Nancy, With

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Speaker 7: obsessional paranoia, the person the person sort of alleviates their

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Speaker 7: rage by constantly thinking about inflicting harm on the victim.

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Speaker 7: But I also think although he obsessed about this and

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Speaker 7: planted out, this was his first crime He did not.

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Speaker 7: He did not think about what it would be like

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Speaker 7: to drop a candy wrapper, drop the water bottle. He

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Speaker 7: didn't have time to plan, He didn't have time to

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Speaker 7: scatter the monopoly money. This was all in his head.

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Speaker 7: You'd never practiced before.

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Speaker 3: Hey, you know what, Tom Smith, former NYPD knows this

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Speaker 3: area like the back of his hand. Tom the burner

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Speaker 3: the cell phone. I mean there's an outside chance it's

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Speaker 3: his actual cell phone. But the report's we hearing is

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Speaker 3: it's a burner phone. Lauren Colin, Yes, no burner phone,

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Speaker 3: actual phone.

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Speaker 2: Burner phone, Nancy, Tom Smith. What I'm coming to you

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Speaker 2: about is the phone? What an idiot? I think.

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Speaker 3: Bethany's right, this may be his first time at the rodeo,

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Speaker 3: and you know, like, let me think of.

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Speaker 2: A good one. Robert Blake remember when he and his henchman.

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Speaker 3: Got his bodyguards, got together and murdered Bondi Lee Bakley, And.

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Speaker 2: They had this extensive to do list.

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Speaker 3: Very often you can catch the purp because of their

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Speaker 3: to do list and they're over planning, right. Uh. But

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Speaker 3: the burner phone, they're really hard to break into. Do

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Speaker 3: you remember in the Alexe Burrogg trial, they had to

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Speaker 3: bring in the secret service to crack his phone.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, and I agree with Lauren. It's a burner phone

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Speaker 8: and who knows what's on there. Yeah, he could just

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Speaker 8: use it for simple things. Again, if he play hands

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Speaker 8: it out and knows Berner phones and what to use

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Speaker 8: them for, there may not be a lot on there,

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Speaker 8: but the ability to break in there might not be

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Speaker 8: that difficult because of the low technology that Bernard Phone

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Speaker 8: and Giugi are and the limited amount of information that'll.

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Speaker 3: Be on there, all the surveillance video, all the pictures

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Speaker 3: that we've got so far talking on the phone just

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Speaker 3: before the murder. Hey, Doctor Bethany Marshall, and then I'm

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Speaker 3: going to follow up with renowned defense attorney Jason Oceans.

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Speaker 2: Dr Bethany, He's not worried.

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Speaker 1: Look at him.

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Speaker 2: He has practiced this over and over and over.

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Speaker 3: He has been watching the victim like a hawk from

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Speaker 3: the moment the victim got into town. This guy knows

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Speaker 3: the itinerary by heart. He knew that there was a breakfast,

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Speaker 3: he knew that that started at eight o'clock. He knew

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Speaker 3: that the victim was going over ahead of time from

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Speaker 3: the Hilton over to the Executive Forum, where he was

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Speaker 3: set to speak that morning.

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Speaker 2: Now, all of.

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Speaker 3: This surveillance video is from individuals and businesses along the trek.

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Speaker 2: Check it out.

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Speaker 3: So what I'm getting at, Dr Bethany, this guy's cold,

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Speaker 3: cool and calculated.

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Speaker 7: This is definitely cold blooded and methodical. To use the

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Speaker 7: panel's term, Nancy. There's one thing this guy forgot to do.

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Speaker 7: He didn't watch the Nancy Grace Show, because if he had,

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Speaker 7: he would have known that there were surveillance cameras all

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Speaker 7: along that street. And that fifteen minute phone call. That

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Speaker 7: makes me wonder if this is like the DC Sniper

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Speaker 7: where an older, more ruthless person recruited a younger person,

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Speaker 7: or that he's acting in concert with somebody else and

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Speaker 7: that's why he's on that phone.

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Speaker 3: Hey, Lauren, it was a call fifteen minutes before the shooting,

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Speaker 3: not a fifteen minute phone call.

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Speaker 2: Correct.

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Speaker 9: Correct, The phone call occurred at six thirty am.

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Speaker 3: So, Doctor Bethany. But I agree with what you were saying,

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Speaker 3: but he did not yet.

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Speaker 2: For fifteen minutes.

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Speaker 3: It's all just as if he's checking in, because I'm

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Speaker 3: wondering is he speaking or is he listening?

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Speaker 2: I can't tell.

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Speaker 3: Plus his mouth is covered right there and I'll tell

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Speaker 3: you why Jason Ocean is joining me renow defense attorney

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Speaker 3: joining us out of this jurisdiction. Who also, you and

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Speaker 3: I have walked this track before together at Jason Ocean's

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Speaker 3: back around or TV and HLN Day's Jason true. The

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Speaker 3: reason I'm wondering if he was listening to something and

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Speaker 3: not talking. I prosecuted an arson murder, and just before

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Speaker 3: the guy burned his mansion down and tried to fake

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Speaker 3: that his wife died in the fire from smoking elation,

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Speaker 3: he called and checked the weather channel. Jason, I was

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Speaker 3: so happy he called and checked the weather channel to

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Speaker 3: find out if it was going to rain the day

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Speaker 3: he was setting the house on fire. So, for all

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Speaker 3: I know, this guy's checking the bus schedule or checked

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Speaker 3: was it?

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Speaker 2: Now? I know he was not on a flight. I

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Speaker 2: know he was on a bus.

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Speaker 3: But every time I'm headed to Legordia, I call or

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Speaker 3: I check online to see if my delta flight is delayed. Okay,

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Speaker 3: how do I know if he was just checking something

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Speaker 3: or actually speaking to someone. In Bethany's train of thought,

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Speaker 3: what if he calls someone it was a quick callment,

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Speaker 3: Hey I'm on the way right now, I'm walking I

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Speaker 3: just passed Starbucks. It could be that it could be anything.

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Speaker 10: Anta I think the theory that, you know, the potential

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Speaker 10: theory that he was directed by someone and that's why

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Speaker 10: he was on the phone is fascinating. Then also struck

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Speaker 10: by that his lack of knowledge, you know, the overall

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Speaker 10: aspect of the cameras that are everywhere. I think he

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Speaker 10: didn't plan for that. That was the one thing in

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Speaker 10: this seemingly meticulous planning that was that was not done.

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Speaker 10: But that phone call could be very critical if we

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Speaker 10: can find out if it was an incoming or an

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Speaker 10: outgoing call, and the limited technology it has the ability

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Speaker 10: to bust that phone up.

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Speaker 3: I got to figure out how the Secret Service actually

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Speaker 3: cracks it. You'd think it would be easy, because you know,

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Speaker 3: Cheryl McCollum with me forensic expert. When I was researching

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Speaker 3: for my last book, Don't Be a Victim, I found

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Speaker 3: out that about I think it was seventy percent or

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Speaker 3: eighty percent, some crazy astronomical number of people still use

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Speaker 3: the factory code UH that they had on answer machines,

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Speaker 3: or they do one two three four is their code

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Speaker 3: or one one one one, or of course sixty nine

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Speaker 3: sixty nine that's now tried and true, or let's see

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Speaker 3: lucky numbers that they come up with, like seven seven

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Speaker 3: seven seven.

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Speaker 2: It's so predictable.

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Speaker 3: But then you got somebody like this who's uh half smart,

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Speaker 3: and he's probably got some bizarre code on his cell

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Speaker 3: phone the burner. You know how long it took them

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Speaker 3: to crack Alex Murdog's. Finally they had to ring in

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Speaker 3: the secret Service to do it.

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Speaker 11: Exactly. Mean, if you look, that phone call could have

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Speaker 11: been something as simple as he called him sick to

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Speaker 11: work because he knew wouldn't gonna make it. Who you

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Speaker 11: can call it? Six forty five am is a very

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Speaker 11: small group of people, so it could have been he's

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Speaker 11: checking the bus schedule because he's leaving that morning and

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Speaker 11: wants to make.

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Speaker 2: Sure that's smart. It's smart, smart way.

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Speaker 3: But you just you just really gave me clue, Cheryl,

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Speaker 3: who are you going to call at six o'clock.

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Speaker 2: In the morning?

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Speaker 11: Okay?

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Speaker 2: Not very many people?

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Speaker 11: Okay, go ahead, because if you call your mom or

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Speaker 11: a sister or something like that, you're going to scare

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Speaker 11: the day like that of them. So it's got to

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Speaker 11: be somebody that's obvious. So you can leave a message

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Speaker 11: for somebody, because you know they're not at work at

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Speaker 11: you can check the bus schedule. I'm not as interested

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Speaker 11: in that as I am his other messages. What he

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Speaker 11: wrote on the shellcasing, the threat before the murder, the

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Speaker 11: fact that he would choose New York and not the victim,

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Speaker 11: Poe state, why not shoot him at any red light works?

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Speaker 3: Oh, Cheryl, Cheryl, you just gave me another tidbit. Hold on,

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Speaker 3: I want to tell everybody. At first we were led

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Speaker 3: to believe that the bullets were engraved in some way with.

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Speaker 2: Deny defend deposed.

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Speaker 3: We now know it was written with black sharp which

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Speaker 3: tells me even more. Do you know that you can

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Speaker 3: get a handwriting sample off of that?

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Speaker 2: Not that I think police.

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Speaker 3: Are gonna need a handwriting sample when they've got fingerprints

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Speaker 3: in DNA, but you never know what might click with

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Speaker 3: the jury.

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Speaker 2: What about it? Cheryl?

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Speaker 11: One hundred? But again, it tells you he took extra

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Speaker 11: time to leave a message on shellcasings. He took extra

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Speaker 11: time to get the monopoly money. That's a message. Shooting

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Speaker 11: him in New York City the morning of that meeting

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Speaker 11: was a message. He could have shot him anytime in

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Speaker 11: his home, stated a red light, but he didn't. This

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Speaker 11: is somebody. It was laser focus about his intended target

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Speaker 11: and his motive.

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Speaker 1: Period crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Welcome Back.

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Speaker 3: A person of interest in the execution style murder of

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Speaker 3: healthcare boss Brian Thompson has been nabbed nabbed in western

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Speaker 3: Pennsylvania carrying very incriminating items. An eagle eyed McDonald's employee

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Speaker 3: called law enforcement.

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Speaker 4: The suspect was in a McDonald's and was recognized by

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Speaker 4: an employee, who then.

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Speaker 1: Called local police.

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Speaker 4: Responding officers questioned the suspect, who was acting suspiciously and

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Speaker 4: was carrying multiple fraudulent IDs as well as a US passport.

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Speaker 3: First, I want to go out to our dive expert.

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Speaker 3: I'm curious about the search in the lake at Central Park.

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Speaker 12: The New York Police Department dive team is called into

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Speaker 12: action after the discovery of the backpack near Hexherre Playground.

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Speaker 12: The divers are seen trawling a Central Park pond behind

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Speaker 12: an area cordoned off with police tape next to Bethesda Fountain,

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Speaker 12: in a body of water known as the Lake near

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Speaker 12: Central Park boat House. The NYPD has been searching Central

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Speaker 12: Park since the gunman was seen escaping on an ee

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Speaker 12: bike into the park. Police have not yet recovered the

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Speaker 12: distinctive gun used in the shooting, and it's unclear if

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Speaker 12: officers recovered any evidence from the water.

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Speaker 3: Joining me special guest Ben Dobin, Virginia Beach Emergency Medical Services,

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Speaker 3: also the Dean of Professional Services at Virginia Wesleyan University.

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Speaker 3: He is an expert diver and he is actually a

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Speaker 3: dive instructor. Well.

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Speaker 13: I do a lot of police diving also and just

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Speaker 13: into emergency diving. And so I'm looking at this on

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Speaker 13: Google Maps, and it's a relatively closed area, so that

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Speaker 13: makes it a lot easier than having to go into

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Speaker 13: the ocean or you know, a great lake or the

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Speaker 13: chest Pea Bay, So it makes it a lot easier

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Speaker 13: for the divers. It's also I just looked it up,

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Speaker 13: it's only four to six feet deep, so that also

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Speaker 13: makes it a lot more simple to do a dive operation.

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Speaker 13: But what they're could be doing is they're gonna be

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Speaker 13: looking for anything that they can find. And one thing

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Speaker 13: that your listeners and watchers need to understand is anything

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Speaker 13: that exists above water exists underwater. People use it as

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Speaker 13: a garbage dump. We find you name it bikes, washing machines,

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Speaker 13: shopping carts, so there's a lot of debris. The more

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Speaker 13: people that are around, the more people use that as

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Speaker 13: a dumping ground. But there's two things that I imagine

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Speaker 13: they're looking for just listening to the different news reports

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Speaker 13: and listening to you. They're looking for the firearm, obviously,

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Speaker 13: but that telephone also, they're looking for that. You know,

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Speaker 13: those are both very small items that are relatively easy

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Speaker 13: to discard, and one of the things that if you

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Speaker 13: find an item like that, you're gonna have to recover it.

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Speaker 13: Evidence recovery is the same underwater as it is above

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Speaker 13: water from the police perspective, but the one thing we

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Speaker 13: have to keep in mind is that it's in a

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Speaker 13: different environment. Evidence above is in air, so you all

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Speaker 13: if you do is keep it in the air. But

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Speaker 13: evidence that's recovered underwater you have to recover it with

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Speaker 13: the water. If you take it out of the water,

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Speaker 13: things start to break down relatively quickly. When I'm talking

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Speaker 13: about specifically is fingerprints if you take something out of

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Speaker 13: the water, and fingerprints can last for about a week underwater,

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Speaker 13: so the clock is ticking. But if you remove whether

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Speaker 13: it's a firearm or the telephone or any piece of evidence.

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Speaker 13: You're gonna want to take it out of the water

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Speaker 13: and just bring some of the local water with it

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Speaker 13: and then bring that to your forensics office and then

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Speaker 13: they're going to drain the water and then do all

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Speaker 13: the magic that they do to get the fingerprints off

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Speaker 13: of it.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Ben Dobwin is joining me, not only Dane Professional

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Speaker 3: Services at Virginia Westling and he is a dive instructor

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Speaker 3: and a police diver. Now, Ben, you just taught me

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Speaker 3: something I didn't know. Number One, when items are taken

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Speaker 3: out of the water, you have to preserve them in

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Speaker 3: preferably the abbiant water the water in which they were in,

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Speaker 3: because the moment they hit the air, it starts to degrade.

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Speaker 2: For instance, fingerprints.

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Speaker 3: Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of

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Speaker 3: Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and star of a

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Speaker 3: hit series Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan, I wanted

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Speaker 3: to talk to you about the gun, but I want

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Speaker 3: to follow.

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Speaker 2: Up on what Dobrain is telling us.

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Speaker 3: Yes, prints are preserved underwater because prints, fingerprints are based

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Speaker 3: on the oil in the body oil water.

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Speaker 2: Get it. You can explain better than me.

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Speaker 1: Go ahead.

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Speaker 14: Yeah, our fingerprints come about as a result of the

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Speaker 14: discharge of the fatty lipids that we have in the

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Speaker 14: pores that surround the print that's left behind. Remember, we

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Speaker 14: don't have fingerprints on the tips of our fingers. We

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Speaker 14: have friction ridges that leave behind fingerprints. So in this

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Speaker 14: particular case, we believe that this is a weapon that

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Speaker 14: has a magazine in it, Nancy. So if you have

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Speaker 14: a magazine, that means that you're going to be pressing

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Speaker 14: down on the rounds as you're loading the magazine in,

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Speaker 14: and also you're touching that surface of the magazine. The

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Speaker 14: magazine is this then fitted into essentially the grip of

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Speaker 14: this weapon, and it's kind of in a protected space there.

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Speaker 14: So what Ben is talking about is right on the money.

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Speaker 14: You have this protected space. If you can keep this

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Speaker 14: in the water that it comes from and take that

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Speaker 14: into the lab, they can get around that weapon pretty

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Speaker 14: quickly and raise any kind of latent prints that might

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Speaker 14: be there.

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Speaker 3: You did that so eloquently, Joe Scott, I would have

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Speaker 3: just said, you know, like oil and water don't mix.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly what I'm saying here. That one more thing

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Speaker 2: about it.

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Speaker 14: Yeah, you think about. You know, Ben had mentioned how

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Speaker 14: densely populated, and all of us have been to Manhattan,

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Speaker 14: how densely populated this area. This guy and pay very

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Speaker 14: close than you weren't about to say this guy, if

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Speaker 14: he did this, he ain't the first person to think

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Speaker 14: about dumping a weapon into that lake, all right. So

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Speaker 14: they have a herculean task at hand here dealing around,

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Speaker 14: dealing in this filthy water where they're going to be

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Speaker 14: using their hands, crawling along. How many other weapons are

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Speaker 14: in there? Just because you find a firearm e merged

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Speaker 14: doesn't mean it's the firearm that was used.

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Speaker 2: Ben.

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Speaker 3: I want to follow up with you on this is

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00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,320
Speaker 3: a great thing to throw at Jason Ocean's when we

444
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 3: come back. But this guy did so much planning, Ben,

445
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 3: But I bet he didn't measure the depth of this

446
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 3: lake and has no idea even though it's big, it's

447
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 3: twenty acres.

448
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 2: I guarantee you he didn't know that it was just four.

449
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 13: To six feet year And I just found that Google.

450
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 13: And if you go a little bit further north, it

451
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,920
Speaker 13: looks like there's the reservoir in the and that's forty

452
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,120
Speaker 13: feet deep, So that is significantly deeper. I mean, it's

453
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 13: obviously you can dive that. It just takes a little

454
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 13: bit longer to get down and get up, But four

455
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:08,880
Speaker 13: to six feet is super easy. If they find something,

456
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 13: they can just pop their head out of the water

457
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 13: and look at it. And what the what he just

458
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,440
Speaker 13: said is we've done training dives in local lakes where

459
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 13: we have found multiple guns. What we weren't looking for.

460
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 13: I mean, we're just doing a training dive and we

461
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 13: found guns. I found a flint lock pistol. I wasn't

462
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 13: looking for one time, because you know, in a populated

463
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 13: era of people think, oh if I if I discard

464
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,360
Speaker 13: a firearm in this lake, nobody will ever find it. Well,

465
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 13: you know it's hard to see, but if people are

466
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 13: looking for it, they're gonna find it. If the New

467
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 13: York City Police dive team is one of the most

468
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,200
Speaker 13: respected in the world, if it's in that little area there,

469
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 13: they're going to find something.

470
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:55,160
Speaker 3: Crime Stores with Nancy Gray.

471
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:55,440
Speaker 2: Welcome back. Breaking news tonight.

472
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 3: In the last hours, a man nabbed in western Pennsylvania

473
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 3: in the Altoona area at a local McDonald's. He has

474
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 3: now been arrested on charges relating to a gun. Sources

475
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 3: telling us it was a so called ghost gun, a

476
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 3: gun that has no serial number that is often put

477
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 3: together with a kit. The parts of the gun purchased

478
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:26,199
Speaker 3: or obtained separately, a ghost gun and a silencer, along

479
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 3: with a hand written manifesto attacking the healthcare industry. Wow,

480
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 3: but what else led to tonight's arrest? Joining me right

481
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 3: now is expert Tom Smith, NYPD, detective thirty years and

482
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:48,160
Speaker 3: the star of the gold Shields podcast. Tom again, thank

483
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 3: you for being with us. We've learned a lot about

484
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:50,919
Speaker 3: the gun.

485
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 2: At first, it looks like it's.

486
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 3: Been manipulated with a homemade silencer on it. We are

487
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 3: now understand that is not a home made silence, Sir,

488
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 3: that this is a weapon that is often used by

489
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 3: veterinarians to put down that's nice word for it, animals.

490
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,160
Speaker 2: The magazine is in the grip.

491
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 3: And when many people thought that it was jamming and

492
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,360
Speaker 3: he was clearing it after each shot, which I thought

493
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,399
Speaker 3: he did really calmly and methodically, we now know it

494
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 3: may be a bolt action that has to be manually

495
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 3: cycled after each shot.

496
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,440
Speaker 2: That changes things. Tom Smith, Yes.

497
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 8: It does, because now he knows he's proficient in that weapon,

498
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 8: knowing every time he fires it, he's going to have

499
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 8: to chamber around. And if I could show you real quick,

500
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 8: this is a glock, not the same weapon that was used,

501
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 8: but but similar functioning. Every time he fires that weapon,

502
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 8: he'd have to click it like this in order to

503
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,360
Speaker 8: chamber around to fire the next round. And the thing

504
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 8: about him is he knows the weapon because he knows

505
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,679
Speaker 8: that's coming. It's not a surprise to him. So he

506
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 8: fires around to clear it, fire another round, clear it,

507
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 8: to chamber around each time, and he knows the weapon

508
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 8: and he knows that he's coming and has to do that,

509
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 8: and that's why he stays kind of calm. Any other

510
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 8: criminal I've ever dealt with in New York City, what's

511
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 8: a weapons jams, they throw it away, they run. He

512
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 8: knows exactly how this weapon is being used.

513
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 3: Okay, for once, the movie's got it right, Tom Smith,

514
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 3: because in the movies you always see the person jam

515
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 3: the weapon and they just throw it or they throw

516
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 3: it at the person they're shooting at. Here when you

517
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 3: look at the video, he's walking toward the victim. I

518
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 3: guarantee you, Tom Smith, this guy practiced probably at a

519
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 3: gun range.

520
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, and you probably have practiced with that weapon, because,

521
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 8: like I said, there's a big difference when you're viewing

522
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 8: this whether someone's panicking or anticipating the movement he's doing.

523
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 8: He knows what he has to do to fire that weapon.

524
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 3: You know, I want you to explain one more time

525
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 3: for novices out there about the bolt action. We now

526
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,919
Speaker 3: don't believe the gun was jamming everybody. We believe it

527
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 3: was a bolt action that has to be manually recycled

528
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 3: after every shot. Could you explain that and demonstrate one

529
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:16,880
Speaker 3: more time please, Tom.

530
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 8: Yeah, this is a nine millimeter weapon and the magazine

531
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 8: port is in here just like you mentioned, it's at

532
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,400
Speaker 8: the bottom of the handle. So once a round is fired,

533
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,439
Speaker 8: he has to manually clear that round to chamber another

534
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:32,920
Speaker 8: round in order to fire it. He'll fire it again

535
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,439
Speaker 8: and do the same thing over and over again. So,

536
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 8: like I said, he's very aware of how that gun

537
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 8: he's used and what he used to do to fire.

538
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 3: You know, another issue, Tom Smith, and I'm going to

539
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 3: bring everybody back in in just a second, But Tom,

540
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 3: another feature of this particular gun that is traditionally used

541
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:57,719
Speaker 3: by veterinarians to put down animals is it has.

542
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 2: A very quiet shot. Very quiet shot.

543
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 3: And the gun we're talking about has a long as

544
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:11,239
Speaker 3: we saw. Could you hold yours up again as a

545
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 3: very long barrel like that? This one even seemed a

546
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 3: little bit longer than yours. And that can be confused

547
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 3: because it looks like a silencer, but it's not.

548
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 8: It's a long weapon and easier to aim because you

549
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 8: have more of an angle of your target in front

550
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 8: of you. So, like I said, he is very aware

551
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 8: of how this weapon is used and what it needs

552
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 8: to do to follow is.

553
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 2: This gun is a specialized gun.

554
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 3: This guy practiced and practiced, and he had everything planned out.

555
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 3: You know, he practiced with the murder weapon. He didn't

556
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 3: just trot over to Connecticut and buy a gun and then.

557
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 2: Use it the next day.

558
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 3: That did not happen. Think of the mindset here. This

559
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 3: is a gun he brought with him on a bus.

560
00:29:57,960 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 3: Didn't get on a plane because he couldn't get there.

561
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 3: Tsa with a gun for Pete's sake. And the airlines

562
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 3: know who you are, they have your picture, they have

563
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 3: you every three feet in the airport.

564
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 2: He didn't want that.

565
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 3: He wanted to travel with his gun. What criminal that's

566
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 3: practiced and practiced and planned and plan was to use

567
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 3: an alien gun.

568
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 8: Well, it's hard to trace. That's why if you're using

569
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 8: a normal weapon with a serial number and so forth,

570
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 8: it's easily traced, whether you find it in a month

571
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 8: or a year. This we have no idea whether there's

572
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 8: any serial numbers on it, whether there's any distinguishing markings

573
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 8: on it. So it could be very benign in the

574
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 8: in identifying it, and that's why he paid.

575
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 3: What I'm saying, Doctor Bethany Marshall, is that this guy

576
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 3: did not just go into a gun shop and buy

577
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 3: the gun just before the murder. If he planned this

578
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 3: methodically to get to Manhattan and to carry out this crime,

579
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 3: staking out the scene the moment he got there November

580
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 3: twenty four to ten pm and go to bed, he

581
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 3: went to this location where the forum was going to

582
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 3: be held.

583
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 2: He didn't buy a new gun. I don't think.

584
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 3: I think he brought his preferred weapon with him after

585
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 3: practicing for hours on end.

586
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 7: This guy is upper middle class. This guy has money,

587
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 7: He has disposable money, and he had access to a

588
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,479
Speaker 7: weapon in a professional environment. This is not somebody who

589
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 7: goes to a gun shop with a fake ID and

590
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 7: tries to skip the background check and gets a gun.

591
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 7: This is a man who knows this weapon. This is

592
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 7: also a man who has researched where this CEO is

593
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 7: going to be.

594
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 15: Early reports on the shooting of Brian Thompson pointed to

595
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 15: a silencer being used or a modern version of a

596
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 15: rare World War two gun. The investigators found themselves looking

597
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 15: into a Connecticut gun store they believe may have sold

598
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 15: the weapon. That lead did not pan out, but now

599
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 15: Chief Detective Joseph Kenny says they are looking into the

600
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 15: use of a veterinary gun being used as the murder weapon.

601
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 15: Kenny says the weapon is normally used on farms and

602
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 15: ranches when an animal needs to be put down. The

603
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 15: animal can be shot with this type of weapon that

604
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 15: doesn't cause a large noise.

605
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 2: Welcome back.

606
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 3: In the last hours, a man nabbed at a local

607
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 3: McDonald's Altoona, Pennsylvania, Western Pennsylvania, over five hours away from Manhattan.

608
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 3: The twenty six year old, taken into custody on gun charges,

609
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 3: apparently had a ghost gun, a silencer, multiple fake IDs,

610
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 3: and a hand written manifesto attacking the healthcare industry.

611
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 2: It's not just this moment.

612
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 3: This moment is the culmination of thousands of law enforcement

613
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 3: man hours like this.

614
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 16: Amid speculation that the shooter traveled to New York on

615
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 16: a bus that left from Atlanta, NYPD officers have traveled

616
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 16: south for part of their investigation. APD can firm through

617
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 16: a statement that its officers are assisting the NYPD investigators,

618
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 16: whom arrived in Atlanta on Saturday. Sources say they are

619
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 16: searching through video from the bus station in town and

620
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 16: to others along the route to New York City. Officers

621
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 16: are working to find a name from tickets purchased for

622
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 16: a November twenty fourth Greyhound trip.

623
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 3: He noticed, the investigative reporter said, looking for a name,

624
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 3: I guarantee you it's not going to be his name.

625
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 2: Let me just say that.

626
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,719
Speaker 3: The security and verification procedures at the bus station a

627
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 3: lot less stringent than it is at the airport. He

628
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 3: could have gone in with any fake ID and gotten

629
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 3: a bus ticket under a fake name, just like he

630
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 3: had a fake ID that he got out of Jersey,

631
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 3: just like he used a fake ID when he checked

632
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 3: into that youth hostel. And speaking of the youth hostel,

633
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 3: Lauren Conlin joining the investigative reporter and star a Primetime

634
00:33:54,120 --> 00:34:00,080
Speaker 3: Crime on YouTube, Lauren. Much was made of him flirting

635
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:00,959
Speaker 3: with the receptionist.

636
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 2: That's not what happened.

637
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 3: We now know that to check into that hostel, and

638
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 3: it's not just at a hostel. That's where they're doing it.

639
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 3: Fancy hotels too. When they say, you know, we need

640
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 3: some ID, look at them. The next time they ask

641
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 3: you that.

642
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 2: They look back up at your face. Right.

643
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 3: So, yeah, there was a little flirtation. You can see

644
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 3: him smiling right there. That's about ten thousand dollars worth

645
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,360
Speaker 3: of orthodontia on that mouth right there. But that's another

646
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 3: can of worms, Lauren.

647
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 2: So I don't know that.

648
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 3: The clerk was flirting with him. She very well may

649
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 3: have said, pulled down your mask. I got to make

650
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 3: an ID. I mean, this is not the ritz, okay,

651
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 3: right right.

652
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 9: And you're correct, Nancy. I did visit the hostel, and

653
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 9: everybody working there was friendly, not overly friendly. Something I

654
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 9: noticed was that there were multiple cameras throughout the lobby

655
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 9: of the hostel. There were cameras outside of the hostel

656
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 9: as well. So my understanding is the most likely have

657
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,879
Speaker 9: multiple angles of this guy, of this shooter. I also

658
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 9: visited the businesses surrounding the hostel. I went inside to

659
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 9: a local bodega. I went inside to a Dunkin Donuts,

660
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 9: and they informed me that they not do any sort

661
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 9: of talking about what they know to anyone but the NYPD,

662
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 9: but also that they turned over footage as well. So

663
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 9: I believe that NYPD is going through all of the

664
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 9: footage they have right now, which, look, it's gonna take

665
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 9: some time. This is not going to happen overnight, but

666
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 9: I think there's going to be a lot more and

667
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 9: stills being released of this guy and what he did

668
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 9: during his time in New York before the shooting.

669
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 2: Straight out to you, Cheryl McCollum, let's look at this guy.

670
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 2: Who is he? Based on everything we know right now.

671
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 11: Nancy, I think one thing that's imperative that everybody's not

672
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 11: mentioning is when you talk to the clerk at the hostel.

673
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,359
Speaker 11: If this were my case, the first thing I would

674
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 11: have asked her is does he have an accent? And

675
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 11: that's why I think again, they are focused on Atlanta.

676
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 11: They know where the books originated, they know what he

677
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,839
Speaker 11: sounds like. If he's from here, they're going to know it.

678
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 11: The other thing about that weapon, remember we have three words,

679
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 11: which means three possible showcasing. So that gun either jams

680
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 11: and we have an unspent or we have three spent,

681
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:22,359
Speaker 11: which means he missed one.

682
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 3: Possibly a ghost gun, a silence sir, fake IDs, and

683
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 3: a handwritten manifesto attacking the healthcare industry.

684
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 2: Sounds like our guy. But what else led to this

685
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:44,720
Speaker 2: detainment in Pennsylvania to doctor Bethany Marshall joining us renowned psychoanalyst.

686
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 2: Way in, doctor Bethany, what's your take on it? Who

687
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 2: is he?

688
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 3: Nan?

689
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 4: See?

690
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 7: This guy is upper middle class, he's educated. He knew

691
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 7: to do this hit at the healthcare conference because he's

692
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 7: sending a message. If he did it at a traffic

693
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 7: stop or at the victim home, it would not send

694
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 7: the message. The scribbling on the ammunition he caught that

695
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 7: from researching internal documents at insurance companies and citing words

696
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 7: that employees or claims processors use to deny claims. I

697
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 7: am going to guess that he had a family member

698
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 7: who was denied care and because of that denied care,

699
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 7: the family member died and he cannot get over it.

700
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 7: So this is although he looks like a street thug

701
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:35,879
Speaker 7: on you know, at first glance, he has not.

702
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:42,320
Speaker 3: Hey, he's got a square chin, perfect teeth, wax between

703
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 3: the eyebrows, eyes going slightly down at the outer edges.

704
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 3: He can change a lot, but there are some things

705
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 3: he can't change, like his fingerprints and DNA.

706
00:37:55,360 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 14: Joe Scott, Yep, you're absolutely right. Those are unique to him, Nancy.

707
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 14: And here's one other thing. I did a little digging

708
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 14: one of this this weapon that they keep referring to,

709
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 14: that's the veterinarian euthanasia weapon. They believe might be a

710
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 14: what's referred to as a Station six brand weapon. My

711
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 14: research revealed that there are essentially, I think either four

712
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 14: or five locations in the metro area where these can

713
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 14: be specifically purchased. And I think that if they believe

714
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 14: that that's what this is and that he transported it,

715
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 14: I think you're on the money here. Relative to getting

716
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 14: on a bus with this thing, he may have picked

717
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 14: it up down there at some point in time, and

718
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,320
Speaker 14: it's not a very efficient weapon for doing the task

719
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:44,759
Speaker 14: that he was trying to do, so I don't know,

720
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 14: maybe he was trying to you know, he's not going

721
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 14: to draw attention to himself, like when you buy a

722
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 14: suppressor separately from a weapon perhaps, and it's not very

723
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 14: efficient because you have to you lose your site picture

724
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:01,799
Speaker 14: every time you have to rotate that bolt on the

725
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:03,839
Speaker 14: back of that weapon, which is what he's doing. He's

726
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 14: spending it. I think that many of the answers that

727
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 14: we're looking for are probably going to rest as well.

728
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 14: And this is something that we will hear a lot about,

729
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 14: I believe, with United Healthcare and their chief security officer,

730
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:21,439
Speaker 14: who was actually hired back in August of twenty twenty three.

731
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,279
Speaker 14: I want to know what she knows. I want to

732
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 14: know what her assets know within that business. Are there

733
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 14: letters that have been written, are their lawsuits that have

734
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:36,760
Speaker 14: been filed relative to what doctor Bethany mentioned about Healthcare

735
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 14: claims that may have been blown off or maybe they

736
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 14: didn't receive what they wanted, But trust me, the security

737
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 14: apparatus within that company is going to be working on

738
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 14: in last.

739
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 3: Hours in rest has been made of a man that

740
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 3: seemingly checks all the boxes.

741
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 2: But this case is far from over.

742
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:57,799
Speaker 3: If you know or think you know anything regarding the

743
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 3: assassination of Healthcare boss Brian Thompson, please dial toll free

744
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:06,399
Speaker 3: eight hundred five seven seven tips five seven seven eight

745
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 3: four seven seven, and tonight we can only thank that

746
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 3: McDonald's employee for acting.

747
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 2: We wait as just as unfolds. Good Night for