1 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh, and 2 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: there's Chuck and Jerry's wandering around the halls somewhere stuff 3 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: to the gill like a fattened goose with mis gross. 4 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, sorry, like she she eats balls of me 5 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: so doesn't even choose them, just swallows them like a duck, 6 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:27,159 Speaker 1: and they get stored in her liver and eventually we 7 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: will kill Jerry and eat that liver and it's going 8 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: to be delicious. I'm surprised that a Miso uh manufacturer 9 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:36,239 Speaker 1: and distributor hasn't I guess you don't manufacture it, but 10 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 1: packager has not tried to custom brand a Miso Jerry brand. 11 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: M it's a it's a I think maybe we should 12 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 1: do that. Maybe not my best idea. It's not a 13 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: bad idea, though, you know what I'm saying, Like, it's 14 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: not one that just makes you go like, let's just 15 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: keep talking and pretend you didn't say that. I appreciate that. 16 00:00:58,080 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: Like there's a few bucks in it for us, I 17 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: think on the road, right, Okay, So we're talking about 18 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: fattened liver because if you um translate the word fatty 19 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: liver into the franche, it comes out to be fois gras. 20 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: But you may have heard of before, you may have 21 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: even eaten before, you may detest. But it's like one 22 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: of the most um controversial foods ever. And I mean like, seriously, 23 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 1: you could have never even seen this stuff and have 24 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 1: just heard those words, and you probably are aware that 25 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: it is an extremely controversial food. Yeah, and this is 26 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: something I've never tried in Ah, certainly because of the practice. 27 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 1: But even before I knew how it happened, I just 28 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:44,479 Speaker 1: don't eat organ meats, and fattened goose liver just would 29 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:47,040 Speaker 1: not appeal to me anyway. I don't like Pett's and 30 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: stuff like that, so it never would have been on 31 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: my culinary radar anyway. I have to admit that on 32 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: a visit to Italy, I ate any kind of organ 33 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: meat literally morning, noon and night for days on end, 34 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: and it was just a dream. The thing is is, 35 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:12,079 Speaker 1: there's a lot of people out there say, hey, fat boy, 36 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: why don't you quit eating that stuff, because there's a 37 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,799 Speaker 1: lot of animals that suffered to make that and they 38 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 1: have a really good case, so much so that there 39 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: have been bands specifically on fla gras. In fact, in 40 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 1: New York in two thousand nineteen, they passed a band 41 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 1: bill that prohibits get this storing, maintaining, selling, or offering 42 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: to sell force fed products or food containing force fed products, 43 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: which is basically targeting flall gra because fall grass a 44 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: force fed product, hence the controversy associated with it. That's right, India, Australia, California, 45 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:54,519 Speaker 1: other places that have banned uh fla graw from being 46 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: I guess at least sold and served in restaurants. And 47 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 1: the practice you're talking about, this force feeding is it? 48 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:03,919 Speaker 1: Is it called gavage? I believe so. Yeah, that's that's 49 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: how I would say g A V A g E. 50 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:11,360 Speaker 1: And this goes way way back to Um Jesus, at 51 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: least Egypt when they were forced feeding these geese when 52 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: they saw that quote developed, uh, the waterfowl developed large 53 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 1: fatty livers after eating large amounts in preparation for migration. 54 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: And then this goes to the Mediterranean and then into France, 55 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: where a lot of our culinary traditions were born. And 56 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 1: there was a chef there named Jean Joseph Klaus or 57 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: Klaussa that'll probably German Klaus, and he is credited with 58 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: creating the first fua gra in seventeen seventy nine and 59 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: patenting it in Yeah, and he got twenty pistols from 60 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: King Louis the sixteenth saying thanks a lot, pal for 61 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: creating fois gras. I love it. I slather it on 62 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: my naked body every night. Go shoot some geese. So um. Yeah, 63 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 1: they're like this. This is based on this idea that 64 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: that ducks and geese naturally fatten up storing fat on 65 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: the liver they stored on their under their skin too, 66 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: like we do. We also store fat on our liver, 67 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: but geese and and ducks are just evolutionary aces that 68 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: storing fat in their liver. And it just so happens 69 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:23,160 Speaker 1: that somebody said, I wonder what that tastes like they 70 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,479 Speaker 1: tried it, and we're like, this is astounding. And most 71 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: of the time when you have pette, it's um or 72 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 1: full graw. It isn't a patte form, which is to say, 73 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 1: it looks a lot like cat food inconsistency, very similar color, 74 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: maybe even a similar smell. It's the taste that really 75 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: differentiates it. Not just the taste but also the price. 76 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: They can get up to like eighty bucks a pound, 77 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: usually forty to eighty dollars a pound for full graw, 78 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 1: which is a lot of money for a pound of 79 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 1: any kind of food. But one of the reasons why 80 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 1: is the production is so food is so labor intensive, right, 81 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: and then also the stuff that goes in along with it, 82 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: like very fine brandies, truffles. Um, it's a it's about 83 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 1: as decade in a food as as you can find. Yeah, 84 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: just really reeks of uh well, I guess it reeks 85 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:19,359 Speaker 1: of of Henry the Eighth or King Louis, the people 86 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: like that who got gouted when they were in their 87 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: twenties and just surrounded themselves with fats and meats and 88 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: liver organ meats and things like that. I'm sure I'm 89 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: making you hungry. I'm about to vomit. But if you're 90 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:38,839 Speaker 1: on the other side of the coin and you are 91 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 1: into animal rights and stuff like that, you might say, hey, um, 92 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: ducks hyperventilate sometimes, sometimes they bleed, sometimes they are shackled 93 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: when you were forced feeding them. Uh. They rallied for 94 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:54,679 Speaker 1: that bill, the seventy eight bill that you were talking about, 95 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,359 Speaker 1: And you can be fined anywhere from five hundred to 96 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:02,479 Speaker 1: two thousand dollars starting in New York City. Yeah, when 97 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: it takes effect, I guess all of New York or 98 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: maybe just New York City. So you would think, like, 99 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 1: you know, what's controversial about this, It's just rotten, it's wrong, 100 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: it's mean, um all to produce like one of the 101 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 1: most decadent foods around. Like, there's really nothing ConTroll controversial 102 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 1: about that. It's it sounds pretty one sided, and a 103 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: lot of people feel that way. There is, however, another 104 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 1: side that argue against it, and we will visit them 105 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: right after this, all right. So there's a lot of 106 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: people out there, chuck that say, well, we hear what 107 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: you're saying, but you're all dumb and you're wrong, and 108 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: they actually say it like that. A lot um A 109 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:06,480 Speaker 1: lot of like chefs, especially celebrity chefs, have actually taken 110 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: a stand in favor of FOA Graw, saying that it's 111 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: unfairly targeted. Um. One of the reasons I saw. I 112 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: read a couple of posts on Serious Eats in defense 113 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: of it, and they said, you know, this is a 114 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: um a type of food that's associated with the very rich. Uh. 115 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: It's really easy to get people riled up because you 116 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: hear things like force feeding and jamming tubes down animals 117 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: necks and making their liver ten times their normal size. 118 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: You put all that together, and you know, fo graw 119 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: becomes unfairly targeted and it's kind of hard to swallow 120 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: at first. I'm very sorry about that one. The idea 121 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: that anybody would defend force feeding an animal to fatten 122 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: its liver to ten times its size so that um 123 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: gout ridden old ritchies can eat a little bit of 124 00:07:53,640 --> 00:08:00,040 Speaker 1: this stuff. Um. But if something is unfairly demonized, it 125 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: is worth looking into an unpacking. And they do make 126 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: a couple of good points here there. Yeah. There's a 127 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 1: group called the Catskill fwag Rock Collective, worst band name ever, 128 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: and they produced most of the flag raw that you 129 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: would get in New York City. You could still get 130 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: I guess once restaurants are open for the next couple 131 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: of years. Yeah. And they they have challenged the band 132 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: and they say it's unconstitutional. Um, you don't have jurisdiction 133 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: over what we do to blastio and these are our 134 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: businesses and you can't shut us down. Um. And the 135 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 1: I guess the leader of the president, Marcus Henley of 136 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: the Catskill Flag Rock Collective says, you know what, this 137 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 1: this little tube is really not causing any discomfort. Ducks. 138 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: Ducks aren't like us. They're built different this uh than 139 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: than us, and this tube is they they love this thing, 140 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: trust me basically. Um. In that serious Seats article, they 141 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 1: went to like the greatest flag graw farm on the 142 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:57,199 Speaker 1: planet and the ducks like came over to get their 143 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: garvage um feeding. But the that's definitely not par for 144 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,079 Speaker 1: the course. There's a lot of videos out there of 145 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 1: some really abusive duck and geese farms where they're stuck 146 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,079 Speaker 1: in cages and their beaks are broken and they're bleeding 147 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: out of their noses and they're lost feathers and they 148 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 1: have like vomit around their mouth and they're still being 149 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 1: force fed. Um. There's some really awful operations out there. 150 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: But um, the apparently, if you're getting good fall raw, 151 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: you're getting it from somebody who's treating their animals very well. 152 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 1: And the case they're making about ducks and geese being 153 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: built differently than us is that their esophagus, their esopha 154 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 1: guy I guess, are not connected to their trach yet 155 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 1: they're two separate ones rather than shared like in in humans, 156 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 1: and their esophagus is allowed to stretch like they can 157 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: eat fish that are many times over the size of 158 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: their actual esopha guy, so they can stretch pretty easily. 159 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: So that's where they say it doesn't really give them 160 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 1: much discomfort if any um and that their their liver 161 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: fattening to like huge like sy is that it's actually 162 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: kind of built to do that. This is just human 163 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: speeding up this process or kind of making it in 164 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,559 Speaker 1: like a simulated way like the ducks. The ducks and 165 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:11,959 Speaker 1: the geese aren't doing this to migrate, but they are 166 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: responding naturally to this kind of simulated packing on the weight, 167 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: and that if you kind of start to understand it, 168 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:21,680 Speaker 1: you will probably change your mind about fall graw. I 169 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: don't know if that's a foregone conclusion, but from what 170 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 1: I read, it isn't as quite as as bad as 171 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: I presumed. The one that got me, though, Chuck, is 172 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: that if you they say, if you are fine with 173 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 1: eating eggs, you don't really think about where your chicken 174 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: eggs are coming from, You've got no leg to stand 175 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: on going after fla graw because the chickens that are 176 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: producing those eggs that you're eating are being treated just 177 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 1: as bad, if not worse than the worst cases of 178 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 1: the ducks and the geese that are being fattened up 179 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:55,440 Speaker 1: for patte. That is the one point that I find 180 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: difficult to challenge. Well, yeah, I mean, you know, very 181 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 1: famously worked in the chicken farming industry, unfortunately as a 182 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 1: marketing person, and it's terrible. Um, but these days you 183 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: can get chickens from one of your neighbors, most likely, 184 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: and that's what we do. It does smell like a 185 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 1: what about is? Um? You know, I think it smells 186 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 1: like it because it very much is exactly that. Yeah. Yeah, 187 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 1: so I I moren flall gry. I don't think I 188 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 1: can really eat it anymore. I haven't eaten in a 189 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 1: very long time. But um, I do have my memories 190 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: with it, the livers of dead abused ducks that I've eaten. 191 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 1: So I'm sorry ducks. I'm sorry, quack. That's okay, quack. 192 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: I wonder if you know you said that they were 193 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: meant or not meant to, but their livers would fatten 194 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 1: up anyway for migration. I guess they are meant to. 195 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: I wonder if these ducks run over there to get 196 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: this force feeding, because they're like this is gonna get 197 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 1: me out of here. Man, You're gonna fly, fly fly 198 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:53,560 Speaker 1: pretty soon. I got to get out of here. This 199 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: is the worst. Oh goodness. Um and the unconstitutional thing, 200 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:01,319 Speaker 1: I'm like, what are they talking about? Suppose the state wise, 201 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: it's unconstitutional because they're trying to regulate interstate commerce. But 202 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 1: I don't know that that necessarily holds up mm hmm. Interesting. 203 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 1: So there you go, flag everybody. Uh, go make up 204 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 1: your own mind about it. Go do you a little 205 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 1: research and see what you think. And in the meantime, 206 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:23,719 Speaker 1: Short Stuff is app Stuff you Should Know is a 207 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: production of iHeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts 208 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 209 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.