WEBVTT - Death of an Accent

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<v Speaker 1>If you watch any movie from Hollywood's Golden Age today,

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<v Speaker 1>you'll notice something distinctive about the way many actors speak.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, we're going to talk about me.

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<v Speaker 1>Good Catherine Hepburn in Philadelphia Story, Orson Wells in Citizen Kane.

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<v Speaker 3>You're right, mister Thatcher. I did lose a million dollars

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<v Speaker 3>last year. I expect to lose a million dollars this year.

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<v Speaker 3>I expect to lose a million dollars next year. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>mister Thatcher, at the rate of a million dollars a year,

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<v Speaker 3>and I have to close this place in sixty years.

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<v Speaker 1>Or Betty Davis as Margot Channing in All About Eve.

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<v Speaker 4>Nice speeches, But I wouldn't worry too much about your heart.

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<v Speaker 4>You can always put that award where your heart.

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<v Speaker 1>On t V, I've always been fascinated by this old

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<v Speaker 1>timey accent, whether in black and white movies or in

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<v Speaker 1>the TV commercials of my youth.

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<v Speaker 5>You see, high Point has a special way of capturing flavor,

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<v Speaker 5>deep brood flavor.

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<v Speaker 6>You see, high Point has a special way of capturing flavor.

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<v Speaker 4>Better. Yes, deep brood flavor.

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<v Speaker 1>Deep brood flavor.

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<v Speaker 4>Nice.

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<v Speaker 1>Who knew Lauren Bacall was such a coffee connoisseur. But

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<v Speaker 1>just where did this peculiar accent come from?

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<v Speaker 4>It was a real accent. It was a really dominant

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<v Speaker 4>sound in the northeastern part of America.

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<v Speaker 1>And one that commanded authority.

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<v Speaker 7>Let me upsit, my family. That's the only thing we

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<v Speaker 7>have to fild.

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<v Speaker 8>Bird the idea that that's the way you wanted to

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<v Speaker 8>hear your leaders speaking is a different kind of America

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<v Speaker 8>than today.

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<v Speaker 1>So why does almost nobody talk like this anymore? With

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<v Speaker 1>the exception of Kelsey Grammar.

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<v Speaker 7>Rather than truckle to the forces of commercialism, I've decided

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<v Speaker 7>to take a stat and on principle it's.

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<v Speaker 1>A mystery I'm determined to solve. From CBS Sunday Morning

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<v Speaker 1>and iHeart I'm Morocca and this is mobituaries, this moment

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<v Speaker 1>the death of an accent. Now, this is where it

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<v Speaker 1>gets a little bit controversial. There's a lot of disagreement

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<v Speaker 1>around what to call this because it's been commonly called

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<v Speaker 1>the mid Atlantic accent.

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<v Speaker 8>I call it the old Rless dialect, or that way

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<v Speaker 8>they talked in old movies. It's Betty Davis roughly.

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<v Speaker 1>That's linguist and New York Times columnist John mcwarter. You

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<v Speaker 1>may remember John from our episode on the death of

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<v Speaker 1>once popular names. He's helping me today with some of

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<v Speaker 1>this dialect detective work. Let's listen to Betty Davis herself.

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<v Speaker 1>Pay attention to the way she says Parker's written.

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<v Speaker 9>By that outstanding leading lady of.

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<v Speaker 2>Literature, Dorothy Parker. Dorothy Parker is the one who said

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<v Speaker 2>men seldom make passes at girls who wear.

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<v Speaker 8>Glasses Paka instead of Parker. Yeah, that excellent, And is.

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<v Speaker 1>That the primary characteristic when we're discussing this way of

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<v Speaker 1>talking burlessness?

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<v Speaker 8>Yeah, what sticks out today is that ours at the

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<v Speaker 8>end of syllables have a way of softening or even

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<v Speaker 8>not being present. And there's a certain archness that we detect.

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<v Speaker 8>We imagine that the women had fluty voices, etc. But

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<v Speaker 8>then again, Betty Davis did not have a fluty voice.

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<v Speaker 8>She didn't talk like this. She had a rather low,

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<v Speaker 8>cigarette stained voice. And yet what we hear in her

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<v Speaker 8>is paka instead of Parker, corner instead of corner. And

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<v Speaker 8>that's where you get this accent that sounding ever more

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<v Speaker 8>exotic as the decades go.

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<v Speaker 1>By, sounds almost alien and it makes people, i think today,

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<v Speaker 1>especially young people, kind of laugh.

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<v Speaker 8>I think that's absolutely true. It makes a lot of

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<v Speaker 8>older movies difficult for people. I would say, at this

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<v Speaker 8>point under fifty to take because everybody seems to talk funny.

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<v Speaker 8>It's been a long time since any real person spoke

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<v Speaker 8>that way.

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<v Speaker 1>Where does the R lists come from?

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<v Speaker 8>There are some consonants that are less hardy than others,

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<v Speaker 8>Like R is a very muddy kind of sound. It's

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<v Speaker 8>almost like a vowel. There's a difference between going puoh

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<v Speaker 8>or too and going it's muddy. When you hang a

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<v Speaker 8>R on the end of a vowel, it's delicate. It's

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<v Speaker 8>kind of like hair and split ends. You know that

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<v Speaker 8>that R is ripe for getting soft. It's going to

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<v Speaker 8>change the color of the vowel before it, and pretty

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<v Speaker 8>soon the our is gonna probably disappear. It's gonna erode,

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<v Speaker 8>as we put it. And so in any English, any

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<v Speaker 8>rs that are at the end of syllables, such as

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<v Speaker 8>in Parker, are in danger in a way, and it's

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<v Speaker 8>almost a matter of not weather, but when stuff is

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<v Speaker 8>going to start to happen.

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<v Speaker 1>Would you find this all over the United States?

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<v Speaker 8>Well, actually no, it's interesting. You have it most prominently

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<v Speaker 8>in New York and thereabouts, and then also you have

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<v Speaker 8>it in Boston, and then it also happened in the South.

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<v Speaker 8>But that was also partly because African languages on the

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<v Speaker 8>West Coast tend not to have ours at the end

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<v Speaker 8>of syllables. Slaves were brought to the Southern United States

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<v Speaker 8>often helped to bring up kids. That meant that the

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<v Speaker 8>ours were certainly going to fall away in the South.

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<v Speaker 8>So it's a different reason. So that's why you have

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<v Speaker 8>the r less Southern accent, and so that means Black

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<v Speaker 8>English is r less all over the country. But the

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<v Speaker 8>main things that people tend to think about if we're

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<v Speaker 8>talking about, say Betty Davis, is what was going on

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<v Speaker 8>in the northeastern United States starting in the eighteen hundreds.

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<v Speaker 1>And she was from Lowell, Massachusetts.

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<v Speaker 8>She was from Lowell.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, let's listen to her right now. In all about

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<v Speaker 1>Eve Eve.

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<v Speaker 5>This is an old friend. Mister DeWitt's mother, Missus Caswell, was.

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<v Speaker 2>Having to miss kiswell, how do you do Edison. I've

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<v Speaker 2>been wanting you to meet Eve for the longest time.

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<v Speaker 8>It could only have been your natural timidative, but kept

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<v Speaker 8>you from mentioning it.

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<v Speaker 4>You've heard of her great interest in the theater.

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<v Speaker 1>Clip and it's where she's meeting Marilyn Monroe, right, and

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<v Speaker 1>Marilyn Monroe walks in.

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<v Speaker 10>And.

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<v Speaker 1>She's a luminous closed. She really does. You should close. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>now let's listen. Oh and I just have one other

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<v Speaker 1>thing to say about All about Eve. My father once

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<v Speaker 1>said to me. He said, the two most purely evil

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<v Speaker 1>character is sort of in Western arts and culture, in

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<v Speaker 1>the Western canon where Iago in Othello and Eve Harrington

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<v Speaker 1>and all about.

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<v Speaker 8>Eve, if not Addison to but Eve, Yes, she is

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<v Speaker 8>more evil. That's definitely true. She has no feelings. That

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<v Speaker 8>is absolutely the case.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to be Addison, right, you're referring to Addison Dewett,

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<v Speaker 1>the imperious drama critic.

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<v Speaker 8>I wish Sondheim were still alive so that he would

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<v Speaker 8>do a musical of All about Eve that actually is

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<v Speaker 8>all about Eve, as opposed to Applause fifty years ago,

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<v Speaker 8>which wasn't. And because I'm kind of the age and

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<v Speaker 8>the temperament and we're now so interested in diversity in

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<v Speaker 8>the theater, I want to play Addison, but I can

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<v Speaker 8>tell nobody is going.

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<v Speaker 11>To do it.

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<v Speaker 3>You would be great that I should want you at

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<v Speaker 3>all suddenly strikes me as the height of improbability, and

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<v Speaker 3>that in itself is probably the reason.

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<v Speaker 1>Did people speak like this in all cities on the

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<v Speaker 1>Eastern Sea border?

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<v Speaker 8>No, they didn't. This hourlessness developed by chance in some

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<v Speaker 8>places and not others. New York and Boston have it,

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<v Speaker 8>but Philadelphia and Baltimore don't. And particularly there are Philadelphia

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<v Speaker 8>and Baltimore were our full rhodic cities, as we call it.

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<v Speaker 1>It just skipped those cities. So it's ironic then that

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<v Speaker 1>Katherine Hepprince, because come Back, Early, Comeback was playing Tracy

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<v Speaker 1>Lord in the Philadelphia story.

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<v Speaker 5>You seem quite contemptuous, and.

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<v Speaker 8>They all of a sudden she wouldn't have sounded that way.

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<v Speaker 1>In other words, Tracy Lord would not have ordered a

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<v Speaker 1>cheese steak. She would have ordered one. Other aspects of

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<v Speaker 1>this accent, it's posh, it's proper. What would you say,

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<v Speaker 1>how would you describe it?

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<v Speaker 8>That is an accent that sounds British to us, And

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<v Speaker 8>I think there's an idea that everybody was trying to

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<v Speaker 8>sound British. I question that. I think that the way

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<v Speaker 8>American English happened to develop was something that would have happened,

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<v Speaker 8>whether there was a great Britain, and whether we associated

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<v Speaker 8>it with poshness or not.

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<v Speaker 1>Here's a surprise. John mcwater says, early Americans didn't talk

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<v Speaker 1>this way.

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<v Speaker 8>We have a tendency to think that the Founding Fathers,

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<v Speaker 8>for example, because they were such formal and educated people,

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<v Speaker 8>we assume that they sound that like masterpiece theater, or

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<v Speaker 8>if that's a dated reference, like many of the actors

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<v Speaker 8>in Every Potter. And actually that's not true. That accent

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<v Speaker 8>actually developed after America was already up and running.

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<v Speaker 1>So Thomas Jefferson would have said went in the course

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<v Speaker 1>of human events, definitely, And John says the Brits themselves

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<v Speaker 1>only started dropping their rs in the late seventeen hundreds,

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<v Speaker 1>so the early sixteen hundreds it was William Shakespeare, definitely.

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<v Speaker 8>Yeah. And there was no horelessness among the people in

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<v Speaker 8>the Globe.

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<v Speaker 1>Theater, okay, all right. And it was the Virgin Queen.

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<v Speaker 8>The Virgin Queen, not the Virgin Queen, right.

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<v Speaker 1>Although Betty Davis dislay she was all the quing Queen.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm suddenly imagining Betty Davis walking to the hunter Acre

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<v Speaker 1>would and having to greet that donkey eawe. This accent,

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<v Speaker 1>with its emphasis on enunciation was especially prevalent in the

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<v Speaker 1>early American theater before the invention of the microphone. It

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<v Speaker 1>tended to carry all the way to the back of

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<v Speaker 1>the house.

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<v Speaker 8>And then once amplification comes in, old habits die hard.

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<v Speaker 8>And so you have these people, you know, on the

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<v Speaker 8>soundtracks of these old movies, still talking in a way

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<v Speaker 8>that maybe would have been thought of as a better

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<v Speaker 8>way to sound if you're doing Our American Cousin in

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<v Speaker 8>eighteen sixty five as opposed to what you need to

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<v Speaker 8>do now.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you for the Our American Cousin reference, which, of

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<v Speaker 1>course was the stage comedy that Lincoln was watching at

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<v Speaker 1>Ford's Theater. Now, I've always wondered there was a star

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<v Speaker 1>of it. But then there was a guy who was

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<v Speaker 1>the second Banana, who played kind of the funny guy role.

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<v Speaker 1>And there's an insult he lays on her, and that's

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<v Speaker 1>the big laugh line. And that's when John Wilkes Booth

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<v Speaker 1>fired the gun. He was waiting for a laugh line.

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<v Speaker 1>You suckologizing old man trap, And that was the big

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<v Speaker 1>That was sort of like the sit on It Potsey

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<v Speaker 1>of its time.

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<v Speaker 8>So few people are going to get them, all.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, it's that's what she said of its time. Right, Wait,

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<v Speaker 1>what are the people laughing to now? I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>what they're laughing to now. Now, it wasn't only Hollywood

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<v Speaker 1>royalty who spoke like this, but also the political elite.

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<v Speaker 1>Here is Teddy Roosevelt campaigning to return to the White

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<v Speaker 1>House in nineteen twelve.

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<v Speaker 10>These prohibitions have been given by the gods from safeguards

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<v Speaker 10>against political and social privilege, in the barriers against political

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<v Speaker 10>and social justice and the bastie our papers. He is

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<v Speaker 10>not to impume the gods, but to emancipate them from

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<v Speaker 10>a position where they stand in the way of social justice.

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<v Speaker 8>That was amazing. I've never heard him. There's a story

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<v Speaker 8>of him going up to Albany when he is in

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<v Speaker 8>the Assembly and he was made fun of for the

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<v Speaker 8>way he talked, because that arl attack scent sounded silly

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<v Speaker 8>to a lot of the people from other parts of

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<v Speaker 8>the state. They imitated him as saying, mister speaker, miss

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<v Speaker 8>the speak up when he wanted to talk. That's not

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<v Speaker 8>the way people from further upstate spoke.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's hear now his fifth cousin, Franklin Delanor Roosevelt, let.

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<v Speaker 7>Me ussit my firmilie. Let's the only thing we have

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<v Speaker 7>to fish fire, so nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terra with paralyses

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<v Speaker 7>needed up, We'll convert with creek enter advance.

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<v Speaker 8>It's perfect.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, this is twenty one years after that clip we

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<v Speaker 1>heard from Teddy, but it's still there, that accent very

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<v Speaker 1>much in the thirties, Like so many millions of others.

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<v Speaker 1>My Italian grandmother, she to her dying day, was grateful

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<v Speaker 1>to him for the new deal for the WPA. And

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<v Speaker 1>you know, she didn't talk anything like that.

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<v Speaker 8>The idea that that's the way you wanted to hear

0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:51.920
<v Speaker 8>your leaders speaking is a different kind of America than today.

0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:54.199
<v Speaker 1>You know, It's funny. My grandmother might have not only

0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:57.280
<v Speaker 1>expected it, but demanded it. That's right, let her leaders

0:12:57.280 --> 0:13:01.120
<v Speaker 1>speak like that. John mcwater says that in politics that

0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:04.040
<v Speaker 1>accent is as much of a relic as the art

0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:05.640
<v Speaker 1>of oratory itself.

0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:09.920
<v Speaker 8>Your grandmother would not have tolerated the way a lot

0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:13.840
<v Speaker 8>of our leaders today speak in public. And it's not

0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:15.720
<v Speaker 8>to say that there isn't a such thing as being

0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:20.880
<v Speaker 8>very eloquent within the bounds of being colloquial and casual.

0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:22.960
<v Speaker 8>But for someone to get up and talk the way

0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:25.000
<v Speaker 8>Trump does. And this is independently of the content, but

0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:28.320
<v Speaker 8>just that kind of scattershot half sentences and you know,

0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:32.560
<v Speaker 8>rarely completing a thought that would have been processed as amateurish,

0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:33.480
<v Speaker 8>as offensive.

0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:35.960
<v Speaker 1>But it's interesting the transition that happens, because you know,

0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:38.880
<v Speaker 1>FDR's last vice president, and his successor, of course, is

0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:41.120
<v Speaker 1>Harry Truman, who does not talk like that. He's not

0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:41.959
<v Speaker 1>a habadasha.

0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:45.560
<v Speaker 8>Oh, he's a Midwesterner. He has his urs.

0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:47.800
<v Speaker 5>I can't tell you.

0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:52.360
<v Speaker 12>How very much I appreciate the honor which you just

0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:58.240
<v Speaker 12>confarred upon me. I shall continue to try to deserve it.

0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:02.800
<v Speaker 8>And what's interesting is that his speaking is not something

0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:05.720
<v Speaker 8>anybody was particularly interested in paying attention to. He wasn't

0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:09.640
<v Speaker 8>considered an orator, he wasn't a performer. But yes, he's

0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:12.280
<v Speaker 8>somebody who did not have that kind of hourlessness, and

0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:14.960
<v Speaker 8>no one ever expected that he was going to become president. Anyway.

0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:21.360
<v Speaker 1>Let's now hear from one of Teddy Roosevelt's six children.

0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:24.760
<v Speaker 1>And no one had more fun children than tr had

0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:27.120
<v Speaker 1>in the White House. Okay, so let's hear from Ethel

0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:27.880
<v Speaker 1>Roosevelt Derby.

0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:31.480
<v Speaker 2>The children especially will be interested in seeing that odd

0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:35.280
<v Speaker 2>little animal under the table there. His name is Josiah.

0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:38.480
<v Speaker 2>And my father, knowing how he liked to have things

0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:40.680
<v Speaker 2>brought home to us whenever he could from his trips

0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:43.680
<v Speaker 2>out west, used to bring us home treasure. One time

0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:46.600
<v Speaker 2>he brought us a bear which lived in the woodshed.

0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:50.400
<v Speaker 2>This time he brought home a little badger. I took

0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:54.040
<v Speaker 2>a picture of my brother Archie in his ordinary girl

0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:58.920
<v Speaker 2>barefoot is little ragged trousers holding Josiah. My father used

0:14:58.920 --> 0:14:59.480
<v Speaker 2>to say.

0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:02.600
<v Speaker 8>Hissing like it, boy, And you can see why people

0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:05.560
<v Speaker 8>think this is about great Britain. Actually, the badger that

0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:06.640
<v Speaker 8>was a wonderful cliff.

0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:08.600
<v Speaker 1>It is so great. And I had to tell you

0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:12.360
<v Speaker 1>the picture of Archie holding Josiah the badger is just adorable.

0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:14.800
<v Speaker 8>Really, Yeah, you've got to look it up.

0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:16.640
<v Speaker 1>You will, of course not remember that I wrote a

0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:18.880
<v Speaker 1>book about presidential pets in two thousand and four, and

0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:22.440
<v Speaker 1>so Cheddi Rosevelt was my favorite chapter. He didn't know, no,

0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:25.520
<v Speaker 1>of course he didn't. I've seen the sales figures, and

0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:30.200
<v Speaker 1>so he had thirty six pets, and he hated amazing pets.

0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:31.120
<v Speaker 1>He had amazing pets.

0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:32.840
<v Speaker 8>Did the Lincolns. How many pets they did.

0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:37.280
<v Speaker 1>They had a horse samed Old Bob. They had a dog,

0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:41.440
<v Speaker 1>which is the very first photographed presidential pet. The dog's

0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:45.040
<v Speaker 1>name was Fido. It's actually really a very sweet picture

0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:47.080
<v Speaker 1>of Fido. He was a mott which is perfect for it.

0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:47.960
<v Speaker 8>But there's of Lincoln.

0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:48.400
<v Speaker 13>Yeah.

0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:50.880
<v Speaker 1>And then they had two goats named Nanny and Nanco.

0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:53.240
<v Speaker 8>Did the dog sit still in the Lincoln picture? Is

0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:53.920
<v Speaker 8>it all blurry?

0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:57.400
<v Speaker 1>Because no, the dog is actually seated on what looks

0:15:57.480 --> 0:15:59.280
<v Speaker 1>like a pedestal, like a plinth.

0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:00.760
<v Speaker 13>Yeah.

0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:04.400
<v Speaker 1>And after Lincoln died, a drunk with a knife stabbed

0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:04.880
<v Speaker 1>the dog.

0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:06.520
<v Speaker 8>You're kidding.

0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:10.000
<v Speaker 1>I'm just bringing all of us really down. It's really,

0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:12.320
<v Speaker 1>really terrible. But let me just make it better by

0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:15.040
<v Speaker 1>saying the teddy Roosevelt. They had a bear, a little

0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:17.840
<v Speaker 1>bear that they named Jonathan Edwards. So next time, listened

0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:22.040
<v Speaker 1>to Ethel Roosevelt saying Jonathan Edwards, the bad and the Bad.

0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:26.480
<v Speaker 1>And they had a hyena. Did they really have they

0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:27.240
<v Speaker 1>did have a hyena?

0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:27.440
<v Speaker 8>No?

0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:29.280
<v Speaker 1>It was crazy. I mean, I hope those kids had

0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:35.200
<v Speaker 1>all their shots. I want to give this guy some props.

0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:40.520
<v Speaker 1>Cornelius Vanderwbilt the fourth because he was an outcast from

0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:44.200
<v Speaker 1>the Vanderbilt family because he dared to get into newspapers.

0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:48.080
<v Speaker 1>Can imagine that as if he'd gotten an OnlyFans account

0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:51.480
<v Speaker 1>he was working for the newspaper My God. Okay. He

0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:57.600
<v Speaker 1>produced what is arguably the very first anti Hitler documentary,

0:16:57.880 --> 0:17:01.280
<v Speaker 1>Hitler's Reign of Terror, in nineteen three four. It was

0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:05.920
<v Speaker 1>met with a cold shoulder as hysteria warned people about

0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:10.560
<v Speaker 1>anti Semitism. So if just for that, let's listen to him.

0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:12.679
<v Speaker 10>There was money enough in Hollywood to tempt me to

0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:14.880
<v Speaker 10>go through it again. I'll tell you that last day

0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:16.680
<v Speaker 10>on the frontier, I felt like Mickey Mouse.

0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:18.160
<v Speaker 4>It was one tough.

0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:18.520
<v Speaker 10>Squeak for me.

0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:20.800
<v Speaker 2>I knew just what I would be up against if

0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:22.480
<v Speaker 2>the Nazzies ever found my films.

0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:24.800
<v Speaker 14>The last few weeks I've been carefully watched.

0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:28.400
<v Speaker 8>He sounds like Betty Davis and Nazzy.

0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:28.919
<v Speaker 12>Nazzy.

0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:32.800
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, you hear that occasionally, especially that Nazzies. Yeah, yeah,

0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:35.399
<v Speaker 8>that's that's something that people It was a spelling pronunciation

0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:37.600
<v Speaker 8>if you don't know German, and so it looks like

0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:40.199
<v Speaker 8>Nazzy and some people would get away with saying it.

0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:42.000
<v Speaker 8>That guy says is a piece of work.

0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:43.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he really is.

0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:44.000
<v Speaker 8>Did he have a family?

0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:47.640
<v Speaker 1>He was married seven or eight times, never had children.

0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:50.439
<v Speaker 1>It seemed like a guy I look just for the

0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:52.639
<v Speaker 1>documentary along. We've got to give the guy some props.

0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:53.760
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I don't know what it was like to

0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:57.640
<v Speaker 1>be married to him, but I like him. I like him. Okay,

0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:01.080
<v Speaker 1>let's hear another voice often associated with this accent. This

0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:05.119
<v Speaker 1>is a conservative intellectual, founder of the National Review and

0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:09.440
<v Speaker 1>co host of the TV show firing Line, William F. Buckley.

0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:13.400
<v Speaker 15>If the telephone company projected the number of people using

0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:16.680
<v Speaker 15>telephones nineteen thirty eight, they figured that at the rate

0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:19.160
<v Speaker 15>of which people were using the telephone by nineteen hundred

0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:23.160
<v Speaker 15>and sixty, in order to service that many calls, they'd

0:18:23.160 --> 0:18:25.119
<v Speaker 15>have to hire. Every woman in the United States is

0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:25.840
<v Speaker 15>a telephon operator.

0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:30.439
<v Speaker 1>Now, this is a much parodied accent. What is it

0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:32.800
<v Speaker 1>that we're hearing there that we're reacting to.

0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:37.840
<v Speaker 8>He's speaking rather quickly, not a whole lot of melodic change,

0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:42.160
<v Speaker 8>almost as if he can't be bothered to enunciate too much.

0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:44.960
<v Speaker 8>There's a privilege in it, and that he sounds like

0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:48.600
<v Speaker 8>he can't quite be bothered to try to get himself across.

0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:50.240
<v Speaker 8>He assumes that you're listening.

0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:52.919
<v Speaker 1>Closely, there's a certain lack of effort or I'm not

0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:57.440
<v Speaker 1>sure if it's a fatigue in there, a detachment, detachment.

0:18:57.480 --> 0:19:00.840
<v Speaker 8>It might also be brilliant, because he he was brilliant,

0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:02.879
<v Speaker 8>whatever you think of the content of the things that

0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:06.960
<v Speaker 8>he wrote and said. And so he's so committed to

0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:10.080
<v Speaker 8>the thinking that he can't be bothered with performance is

0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:13.440
<v Speaker 8>one kind of quick psychology you might pull.

0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:18.359
<v Speaker 1>Buckley indeed had a cosmopolitan upbringing. Born in New York,

0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:22.399
<v Speaker 1>he grew up speaking Spanish and received his early formal

0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:26.800
<v Speaker 1>education in France and England. But it wasn't just those

0:19:26.960 --> 0:19:30.280
<v Speaker 1>to the manor born who spoke this way. Let's turn

0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:33.600
<v Speaker 1>back to entertainment to listen to a commercial from the

0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:38.800
<v Speaker 1>early nineteen eighties starring The Bronxes. Betty Joan Persky aka

0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:40.320
<v Speaker 1>Lauren Bacall.

0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:44.720
<v Speaker 5>My favorite time of day is night. I love curling

0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:47.720
<v Speaker 5>up with a rich cup of coffee. You think coffee

0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:48.640
<v Speaker 5>and sleep down mix.

0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:49.480
<v Speaker 8>They do.

0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:54.800
<v Speaker 5>If it's high Point, it's decaffeinated and the flavor is marvelous.

0:19:55.480 --> 0:20:00.800
<v Speaker 5>You see, high Point has a special way of capturing flavor, flavor.

0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:05.640
<v Speaker 5>It's a coffee lover's dream.

0:20:05.960 --> 0:20:08.600
<v Speaker 1>Betty Joan Persky was born of the Bronx. Okay, okay,

0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:11.920
<v Speaker 1>grew up pretty hard scrabble. Now we can only guess

0:20:12.200 --> 0:20:14.480
<v Speaker 1>because she started in Hollywood when she was so young.

0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:18.840
<v Speaker 1>But do we think that an adolescent Betty Joan Persky

0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:21.520
<v Speaker 1>soon to be Lauren bacall, was arless.

0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:25.760
<v Speaker 8>She definitely would have been ar less, because this hourlessness

0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:28.800
<v Speaker 8>was not only people of a certain means, it was

0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:33.240
<v Speaker 8>also people who were middle and even lower class. Lauren

0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:36.520
<v Speaker 8>McCall had an air about her, especially as she got older,

0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:40.040
<v Speaker 8>and so it ends up sounding rather high toned that

0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:44.400
<v Speaker 8>she says flavor. But she learned to say flavor, probably

0:20:44.560 --> 0:20:47.280
<v Speaker 8>in the Bronx, in a very hot third floor apartment,

0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:49.440
<v Speaker 8>because that's the way everybody would have spoken there.

0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:51.639
<v Speaker 1>She's playing a high status character in one of the

0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:54.879
<v Speaker 1>high Point commercials. She's in a limousine drinking high Point coffee.

0:20:54.920 --> 0:20:57.320
<v Speaker 1>She's actually pouring it, which is insane. That's because how

0:20:57.400 --> 0:20:59.880
<v Speaker 1>you I mean? These are New York City streets, pop

0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:02.879
<v Speaker 1>holes everywhere. That's a major LOSSU youit ready to happen.

0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:05.600
<v Speaker 8>My pants are full of flavor, my dad.

0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:11.000
<v Speaker 1>These pants are full of flavor. I'm the woman of

0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:19.520
<v Speaker 1>the year with third degree burns. Okay, sorry, coming.

0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:22.800
<v Speaker 6>Up after a break. How to speak with distinction when

0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:24.680
<v Speaker 6>quoting from the classics.

0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:29.200
<v Speaker 4>Don't say flavor and hold it, get off it quicker flavor.

0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:31.960
<v Speaker 6>You see high Point has a special way of capturing

0:21:32.040 --> 0:21:47.720
<v Speaker 6>flavor better. Yes, you see high Point. You see high Point.

0:21:47.960 --> 0:21:51.440
<v Speaker 4>That's not bad. You see high Point has a special

0:21:51.480 --> 0:21:53.160
<v Speaker 4>way of capturing flavor.

0:21:53.440 --> 0:21:57.240
<v Speaker 1>You see high Point has a special way of capturing flavor.

0:21:58.119 --> 0:22:07.240
<v Speaker 16>Cap cap Chuck like cha sharing capturing dialect coach Jessica

0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:11.159
<v Speaker 16>Drake is teaching me to pitch decaf like Lauren Bacall.

0:22:12.040 --> 0:22:16.040
<v Speaker 1>Since the late nineteen eighties, Jessica's been helping major Hollywood

0:22:16.080 --> 0:22:20.160
<v Speaker 1>actors get into character for movies and TV. She helped

0:22:20.280 --> 0:22:25.440
<v Speaker 1>Sean Penn play Harvey Milk and Anada Armis become Marilyn Monroe.

0:22:26.960 --> 0:22:30.399
<v Speaker 1>I'm curious, what are you asked most about.

0:22:30.640 --> 0:22:34.760
<v Speaker 4>It's Forrest Gump. It's always Forrest Gump. That's it.

0:22:34.880 --> 0:22:36.040
<v Speaker 1>The Alabama accent.

0:22:36.480 --> 0:22:36.800
<v Speaker 7>Yes.

0:22:37.440 --> 0:22:40.879
<v Speaker 11>Now, because I've been a football starg and war hero

0:22:41.160 --> 0:22:44.840
<v Speaker 11>and national celebrity and a Shrimp and Bolt captain and

0:22:44.920 --> 0:22:48.439
<v Speaker 11>the college graduate this city follows at Greenbow, Alabama decided

0:22:48.440 --> 0:22:50.879
<v Speaker 11>to get together and offered me a fine job.

0:22:51.720 --> 0:22:54.240
<v Speaker 4>You know, for an actor, it's another piece, right, It's

0:22:54.280 --> 0:22:58.360
<v Speaker 4>like a false nose or a limp. It's a thing

0:22:58.440 --> 0:23:00.879
<v Speaker 4>that they add to the character, or it's a piece

0:23:00.960 --> 0:23:04.159
<v Speaker 4>that brings them closer to that other person they're playing.

0:23:08.600 --> 0:23:13.520
<v Speaker 1>The accent that we're talking about is commonly called the

0:23:13.520 --> 0:23:19.040
<v Speaker 1>mid Atlantic accent, the Transatlantic accent. Is that a misnomer?

0:23:19.480 --> 0:23:22.879
<v Speaker 4>Yes, it is, first of all mid Atlantic. I just

0:23:22.920 --> 0:23:26.000
<v Speaker 4>want to say, would be Delaware, Maryland, something like that.

0:23:26.280 --> 0:23:30.560
<v Speaker 4>The idea, the notion is it's halfway between English and

0:23:30.640 --> 0:23:34.520
<v Speaker 4>American speech, and so it's this mythological place that doesn't

0:23:34.600 --> 0:23:36.679
<v Speaker 4>exist in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.

0:23:36.720 --> 0:23:38.800
<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh, I know exactly right. The closest you

0:23:38.800 --> 0:23:41.000
<v Speaker 1>could get it's a southern tip of Greenland. And I

0:23:41.000 --> 0:23:42.359
<v Speaker 1>don't think they talk like that there.

0:23:42.440 --> 0:23:46.920
<v Speaker 4>No, definitely not well observed. It's got nothing to do

0:23:47.080 --> 0:23:50.400
<v Speaker 4>with that. It was a real accent. Loads of people

0:23:50.480 --> 0:23:51.320
<v Speaker 4>spoke that way.

0:23:51.640 --> 0:23:55.080
<v Speaker 1>So what would you call this accent we're talking about.

0:23:55.280 --> 0:23:59.560
<v Speaker 4>I would call it probably Northeastern elite, because it's a

0:23:59.640 --> 0:24:03.920
<v Speaker 4>sod with those regions. I mean where you really would

0:24:04.000 --> 0:24:10.080
<v Speaker 4>hear its, places like New York City, Newport, Rhode Island, Darien, Connecticut,

0:24:10.200 --> 0:24:14.400
<v Speaker 4>Kenny Bunkport, Maine, and Boston.

0:24:14.720 --> 0:24:18.359
<v Speaker 1>Now this way of speaking wasn't only about dropping ours.

0:24:18.760 --> 0:24:23.200
<v Speaker 1>You'll also notice a softening and elongation of the vowels,

0:24:23.680 --> 0:24:27.359
<v Speaker 1>especially the A sound. And can I say my father,

0:24:27.440 --> 0:24:31.280
<v Speaker 1>who grew up in a factory town called Leminster, Massachusetts,

0:24:32.080 --> 0:24:35.920
<v Speaker 1>I would hear every so often he would say bathroom

0:24:36.320 --> 0:24:40.320
<v Speaker 1>instead of the bathroom. He'd say bathroom, bathroom, the bathroom,

0:24:40.440 --> 0:24:44.199
<v Speaker 1>I need that or bathroom? Yeah yeah that a and

0:24:44.240 --> 0:24:46.560
<v Speaker 1>I would go bathroom, but he'd go bathroom.

0:24:46.880 --> 0:24:49.400
<v Speaker 4>Yes, yeah, it's pretty good, Moe, you have a pretty.

0:24:49.200 --> 0:24:52.760
<v Speaker 1>Good middle a. Jessica Drake says that for most people,

0:24:52.840 --> 0:24:55.680
<v Speaker 1>this accent wasn't learned formally in school.

0:24:56.080 --> 0:24:59.960
<v Speaker 4>The influences on most people's speech are pretty basic. It's

0:25:00.119 --> 0:25:04.520
<v Speaker 4>your parents and it's your friends when you're young, and

0:25:05.000 --> 0:25:09.840
<v Speaker 4>that's pretty much where it gets formed. But where their classes,

0:25:12.040 --> 0:25:16.320
<v Speaker 4>I think unless you were pursuing either a career in

0:25:16.359 --> 0:25:19.639
<v Speaker 4>the arts or perhaps going to say some sort of

0:25:19.640 --> 0:25:23.960
<v Speaker 4>a finishing school, which is a thing that existed, then yeah,

0:25:24.720 --> 0:25:26.200
<v Speaker 4>but otherwise no.

0:25:31.640 --> 0:25:35.320
<v Speaker 1>One piece of misinformation you'll find online about this accent

0:25:35.800 --> 0:25:38.440
<v Speaker 1>is the notion that it was taught to Golden age

0:25:38.480 --> 0:25:42.760
<v Speaker 1>Hollywood actors by a woman named Edith Skinner, a speech

0:25:42.800 --> 0:25:46.840
<v Speaker 1>teacher best known for writing a book called Speak with Distinction.

0:25:48.040 --> 0:25:51.720
<v Speaker 1>Jessica Drake was one of Skinner's students at New York's

0:25:51.760 --> 0:25:55.679
<v Speaker 1>famed Juilliard School, and she wants to set the record

0:25:55.720 --> 0:25:57.480
<v Speaker 1>straight about her late mentor.

0:25:58.240 --> 0:26:03.560
<v Speaker 4>Edith Skinner was dedicated to the theater more than anything else.

0:26:03.880 --> 0:26:07.920
<v Speaker 4>The theater. She is responsible definitely for training a whole

0:26:08.000 --> 0:26:11.000
<v Speaker 4>generation of regional theater actors.

0:26:11.440 --> 0:26:15.280
<v Speaker 1>But Jessica says Skinner couldn't have coached those old, tiny

0:26:15.359 --> 0:26:20.960
<v Speaker 1>Hollywood stars because she never once worked in Hollywood. How

0:26:21.160 --> 0:26:23.879
<v Speaker 1>did she become associated with this.

0:26:23.880 --> 0:26:31.800
<v Speaker 4>Accent misinformation is the simplest answer. Unfortunately, there have been

0:26:31.840 --> 0:26:36.080
<v Speaker 4>things put into print that have claimed that she was

0:26:36.119 --> 0:26:39.879
<v Speaker 4>in Hollywood teaching in the thirties, or that actors were

0:26:39.960 --> 0:26:44.040
<v Speaker 4>running around the studio lots carrying her book under their arms.

0:26:45.080 --> 0:26:48.160
<v Speaker 4>This is all complete and total fabrication.

0:26:49.040 --> 0:26:52.400
<v Speaker 1>In fact, her book wasn't published until nineteen forty two,

0:26:53.000 --> 0:26:55.399
<v Speaker 1>and then it was only available in the bookstore at

0:26:55.440 --> 0:26:59.720
<v Speaker 1>Pittsburgh's Carnegie Tech, where she taught at the time. Now,

0:27:00.200 --> 0:27:04.000
<v Speaker 1>Skinner did teach a later generation of actors something that

0:27:04.040 --> 0:27:07.120
<v Speaker 1>would come to be known as good American speech.

0:27:07.920 --> 0:27:10.280
<v Speaker 4>So the sound that she came up with, the good

0:27:10.320 --> 0:27:15.639
<v Speaker 4>American speech, is certainly based on what we've been talking about.

0:27:15.640 --> 0:27:21.120
<v Speaker 4>That Northeastern accent. However, it had specifically something she called

0:27:21.200 --> 0:27:22.520
<v Speaker 4>the seven points.

0:27:23.080 --> 0:27:27.840
<v Speaker 1>One of those seven points Skinner prescribed was softening those rs,

0:27:28.440 --> 0:27:31.600
<v Speaker 1>but not quite as much as old time Hollywood actors

0:27:31.600 --> 0:27:36.399
<v Speaker 1>often did. Skinner's method also encourages performers to pronounce certain

0:27:36.440 --> 0:27:37.840
<v Speaker 1>words with a middle a.

0:27:38.800 --> 0:27:42.400
<v Speaker 4>What she called the ask list of words. Those are

0:27:42.440 --> 0:27:45.960
<v Speaker 4>words that Southern English would pronounce with a long a.

0:27:45.960 --> 0:27:52.080
<v Speaker 4>Ask pauls Claus and she had it at ask pass class,

0:27:52.640 --> 0:27:56.719
<v Speaker 4>which is not ask past class, which would be more

0:27:56.880 --> 0:27:57.720
<v Speaker 4>general American.

0:27:58.320 --> 0:28:02.480
<v Speaker 1>One of Skinner's students, the actor Ellis rab Here, in

0:28:02.520 --> 0:28:05.639
<v Speaker 1>a production of the comedy The Royal Family, he.

0:28:05.640 --> 0:28:08.080
<v Speaker 8>Said, who's directing this picture? I said, you're directing the picture.

0:28:08.119 --> 0:28:10.280
<v Speaker 8>You're not directing me. I'm through with it and you

0:28:10.280 --> 0:28:11.800
<v Speaker 8>can take that to remember me.

0:28:11.920 --> 0:28:17.000
<v Speaker 1>By Ellis rab taught by Edith Skinner, was the inspiration

0:28:17.640 --> 0:28:23.439
<v Speaker 1>for Kelsey Grammar's voice for side show Bob on The Simpsons,

0:28:23.720 --> 0:28:28.479
<v Speaker 1>which means that side show. Bob was trained by Edith Skinner.

0:28:29.080 --> 0:28:33.280
<v Speaker 7>Lisa, you always wear the one rose petal floating atop

0:28:33.359 --> 0:28:34.240
<v Speaker 7>the cesspool.

0:28:34.280 --> 0:28:35.600
<v Speaker 8>That is the Simpsons.

0:28:36.240 --> 0:28:36.639
<v Speaker 14>You see.

0:28:36.720 --> 0:28:40.000
<v Speaker 4>You can tie Edith to these things that way. Kelsey

0:28:40.120 --> 0:28:42.880
<v Speaker 4>was a student of hers at Julliard as well, and

0:28:42.920 --> 0:28:47.000
<v Speaker 4>I would say the frasier sound is in no small

0:28:47.160 --> 0:28:50.640
<v Speaker 4>part connected to that Edith training.

0:28:51.200 --> 0:28:52.480
<v Speaker 8>It's hard to say what to hate.

0:28:52.480 --> 0:28:56.920
<v Speaker 14>Most about Crane's show is Papa's sanctimonious style, his constant

0:28:57.000 --> 0:29:00.920
<v Speaker 14>self congratulatory references to his own life, or his voice

0:29:01.240 --> 0:29:05.000
<v Speaker 14>a mock sympathetic tone, so sickly sweet. One wonders if

0:29:05.000 --> 0:29:08.479
<v Speaker 14>the man graduated from medical school or from some mind

0:29:08.600 --> 0:29:09.640
<v Speaker 14>controlling cult.

0:29:10.400 --> 0:29:14.200
<v Speaker 1>And how's this for influence? That's truly out of this world.

0:29:14.880 --> 0:29:19.440
<v Speaker 4>Robin Williams. He took some of the speech exercises and

0:29:19.520 --> 0:29:23.120
<v Speaker 4>turned them into that language that Mork spoke. She has

0:29:23.520 --> 0:29:30.959
<v Speaker 4>an exercise mo may me my mo moo nona nine

0:29:31.200 --> 0:29:36.760
<v Speaker 4>no new LAWI li lo lou, Oh my god, that's

0:29:36.760 --> 0:29:38.120
<v Speaker 4>where nyeah come from.

0:29:38.160 --> 0:29:39.160
<v Speaker 1>Belief out of that.

0:29:40.120 --> 0:29:40.959
<v Speaker 13>Wow.

0:29:41.680 --> 0:29:44.640
<v Speaker 1>I'll catch you on the rebound your magnitude until next week.

0:29:44.920 --> 0:29:45.160
<v Speaker 12>I know.

0:29:45.920 --> 0:30:12.640
<v Speaker 1>No Coming up more with linguist John mcwater. Is this

0:30:13.800 --> 0:30:15.040
<v Speaker 1>a white accent?

0:30:15.720 --> 0:30:20.000
<v Speaker 8>This is of course largely associated with white people. But

0:30:20.120 --> 0:30:24.600
<v Speaker 8>an interesting thing about the olden times is that there

0:30:24.680 --> 0:30:27.200
<v Speaker 8>was a sense in the United States that if you

0:30:27.240 --> 0:30:29.200
<v Speaker 8>were going to be a person of influence, you had

0:30:29.200 --> 0:30:31.280
<v Speaker 8>to learn to talk in a certain way.

0:30:33.160 --> 0:30:37.360
<v Speaker 1>I'm back with linguist John mcwarter to finish talking about

0:30:37.360 --> 0:30:39.320
<v Speaker 1>the way some of us used to talk.

0:30:40.520 --> 0:30:44.120
<v Speaker 8>And one of the most counterintuitive things I think these days,

0:30:44.160 --> 0:30:46.800
<v Speaker 8>because of all sorts of layers of assumptions that we make,

0:30:47.280 --> 0:30:50.280
<v Speaker 8>is that black public figures did the same thing. So

0:30:50.360 --> 0:30:54.600
<v Speaker 8>Booker T. Washington was born a slave, he learned to

0:30:54.720 --> 0:30:58.280
<v Speaker 8>sound like William Jennings Bryan because that is just what

0:30:58.440 --> 0:31:02.000
<v Speaker 8>one had to do, included for black audiences as well.

0:31:02.320 --> 0:31:04.440
<v Speaker 8>And so you listen to people, especially in the first

0:31:04.440 --> 0:31:06.480
<v Speaker 8>half of the twentieth century, when you can have recordings

0:31:06.520 --> 0:31:10.520
<v Speaker 8>of them black leaders, and it can be jarring. How frankly,

0:31:10.680 --> 0:31:13.760
<v Speaker 8>what to our ears is white? They sound today, But

0:31:13.800 --> 0:31:19.320
<v Speaker 8>really what it was was public oratory American style.

0:31:19.920 --> 0:31:23.480
<v Speaker 1>Let's hear the voice of educator and orator and founder

0:31:23.520 --> 0:31:27.640
<v Speaker 1>of the National Negro Business League, Booker T. Washington. It

0:31:27.680 --> 0:31:29.560
<v Speaker 1>may be a little hard to make out since it

0:31:29.600 --> 0:31:31.240
<v Speaker 1>was recorded in nineteen oh eight.

0:31:31.840 --> 0:31:35.520
<v Speaker 17>Through the frays who depends on suttering back and begins

0:31:36.040 --> 0:31:41.520
<v Speaker 17>a foreign land, or wonder that fat eatavating friend relations

0:31:41.560 --> 0:31:44.520
<v Speaker 17>for southern white men? Who is the next door neighbor?

0:31:44.880 --> 0:31:48.360
<v Speaker 17>I would say, cast down your bucket where you are

0:31:49.400 --> 0:31:52.080
<v Speaker 17>pass down making friends in every man the way.

0:31:52.640 --> 0:31:56.400
<v Speaker 1>So Bucker T. Washington, we can only speculate he would

0:31:56.440 --> 0:31:58.480
<v Speaker 1>not have said I'm trying to sound white. He would

0:31:58.520 --> 0:32:00.880
<v Speaker 1>have said, I'm trying to sound like a public figure

0:32:00.880 --> 0:32:01.600
<v Speaker 1>who's respected.

0:32:01.760 --> 0:32:04.640
<v Speaker 8>He would almost certainly have said that. Yet the idea

0:32:04.640 --> 0:32:06.960
<v Speaker 8>that we would listen to him and think he sounded white,

0:32:07.200 --> 0:32:09.040
<v Speaker 8>he would have to wrap his head around that. He

0:32:09.040 --> 0:32:10.920
<v Speaker 8>would think, how else was I supposed to sound? If

0:32:10.960 --> 0:32:13.040
<v Speaker 8>I was standing up in front of a massive audience

0:32:13.280 --> 0:32:16.040
<v Speaker 8>making a speech, and this would include a black audience.

0:32:16.040 --> 0:32:18.360
<v Speaker 8>Booker T. Washington didn't try to sound white. He tried

0:32:18.400 --> 0:32:19.160
<v Speaker 8>to sound formal.

0:32:19.720 --> 0:32:21.960
<v Speaker 1>Let's listen to who is often used as sort of

0:32:21.960 --> 0:32:26.040
<v Speaker 1>the counterpoint to Booker T. Washington. This is the activist,

0:32:26.160 --> 0:32:31.120
<v Speaker 1>pioneering sociologist, and socialist W. E. B. Du Bois, reading

0:32:31.120 --> 0:32:34.479
<v Speaker 1>from his autobiography, so presumably this is much later in

0:32:34.520 --> 0:32:35.040
<v Speaker 1>his life.

0:32:35.800 --> 0:32:39.960
<v Speaker 18>I went from my home in Massachusetts when I was

0:32:40.000 --> 0:32:45.080
<v Speaker 18>seventeen don to Fisk University in Tennessee. There I stayed

0:32:45.120 --> 0:32:50.440
<v Speaker 18>three years. Then I came from there to Harvard University

0:32:51.280 --> 0:32:55.680
<v Speaker 18>in the fall of eighty five and stayed there four years.

0:32:56.040 --> 0:32:59.800
<v Speaker 8>You know why that's perfect? That's so perfect? Do boys

0:32:59.840 --> 0:33:03.680
<v Speaker 8>was rful? He has his ours. The reason he's ourful

0:33:04.120 --> 0:33:08.520
<v Speaker 8>is because there is this otherwise utterly boring difference. It's

0:33:08.520 --> 0:33:13.560
<v Speaker 8>a dialecticians thing between western and eastern New England. Boston

0:33:13.600 --> 0:33:17.640
<v Speaker 8>accent is eastern. Western is say, Great Barrington, where he

0:33:17.680 --> 0:33:19.520
<v Speaker 8>grew up. I actually went to college for two years

0:33:19.520 --> 0:33:22.040
<v Speaker 8>in Great Barrings in the Berkshires, And that's why he

0:33:22.080 --> 0:33:24.800
<v Speaker 8>says year instead of the year. And so he's on

0:33:24.840 --> 0:33:26.040
<v Speaker 8>the other side of that line.

0:33:26.120 --> 0:33:29.280
<v Speaker 1>Isn't that neat Well it's such an interesting clip to

0:33:29.320 --> 0:33:32.800
<v Speaker 1>me because vers goes Massachusetts, but he keeps his ar

0:33:32.880 --> 0:33:35.320
<v Speaker 1>on Harvard. And there are moments and I could be

0:33:35.360 --> 0:33:38.360
<v Speaker 1>getting this wrong. He almost it almost sounds like a burr.

0:33:38.480 --> 0:33:40.040
<v Speaker 1>He almost sounds Scottish.

0:33:40.400 --> 0:33:43.520
<v Speaker 8>He also just sounds like he's very much from another time.

0:33:43.840 --> 0:33:46.200
<v Speaker 8>His vowels are something that we wouldn't hear in anybody

0:33:46.320 --> 0:33:48.280
<v Speaker 8>in the United States these days, because if you're listening

0:33:48.320 --> 0:33:50.520
<v Speaker 8>to Dubois, you're listening to somebody who learned to talk

0:33:51.120 --> 0:33:53.840
<v Speaker 8>at the end of the eighteen hundreds, and yet he

0:33:53.880 --> 0:33:56.560
<v Speaker 8>lived long enough to be recorded in good sound in

0:33:56.600 --> 0:33:57.000
<v Speaker 8>that way.

0:33:57.240 --> 0:33:59.959
<v Speaker 1>And I think a whole heck of a lot of

0:34:00.080 --> 0:34:03.000
<v Speaker 1>people who know who w eb Boys was and who

0:34:03.040 --> 0:34:06.320
<v Speaker 1>have read him would be shocked to listen to that.

0:34:06.560 --> 0:34:08.080
<v Speaker 8>Oh, you know, to tell you the truth. And this

0:34:08.160 --> 0:34:11.919
<v Speaker 8>is getting into a less cuddly dimension of these things.

0:34:11.920 --> 0:34:14.560
<v Speaker 8>But as a black person, I have often thought this,

0:34:15.320 --> 0:34:18.440
<v Speaker 8>many people who are big fans of people like Duboys

0:34:18.480 --> 0:34:22.960
<v Speaker 8>today might find themselves involuntarily put off by the way

0:34:22.960 --> 0:34:27.560
<v Speaker 8>he spoke, because he had There's no hint of what

0:34:27.600 --> 0:34:30.480
<v Speaker 8>we today think of as blackness in the voice of

0:34:30.520 --> 0:34:34.400
<v Speaker 8>that man. And it isn't an affectation. That's there's all

0:34:34.440 --> 0:34:36.560
<v Speaker 8>evidence that that's the way he and people like him

0:34:36.600 --> 0:34:40.319
<v Speaker 8>always spoke. And I think many black people today, quite

0:34:40.320 --> 0:34:42.640
<v Speaker 8>innocently would be waiting for him to kind of get

0:34:42.680 --> 0:34:47.160
<v Speaker 8>down and use certain expressions and to you know, have

0:34:47.239 --> 0:34:50.160
<v Speaker 8>some horlessness and to have some vowel colorations, and he

0:34:50.160 --> 0:34:52.040
<v Speaker 8>would never do it. And I think it would make

0:34:52.040 --> 0:34:54.960
<v Speaker 8>a lot of them rather uncomfortable. Whenever I've heard do boys,

0:34:55.000 --> 0:34:57.960
<v Speaker 8>I think to myself, hmm. Socially, it'd be a little

0:34:58.000 --> 0:35:01.759
<v Speaker 8>awkward now for many black leaders, even black intellectuals and

0:35:01.800 --> 0:35:04.399
<v Speaker 8>black thinkers, we have a whole different sense of what

0:35:04.480 --> 0:35:07.719
<v Speaker 8>makes a person approachable, and perhaps even our value of

0:35:08.160 --> 0:35:10.600
<v Speaker 8>what approachability is very interesting.

0:35:10.800 --> 0:35:13.279
<v Speaker 1>Well, so we talked about William F. Buckley earlier, his

0:35:14.000 --> 0:35:18.680
<v Speaker 1>famous one of his famous debate partners James Baldwin. So

0:35:18.800 --> 0:35:20.840
<v Speaker 1>let's listen to James Baldwin.

0:35:21.360 --> 0:35:23.759
<v Speaker 9>The reason for the political hesitation and in spite to

0:35:23.800 --> 0:35:27.040
<v Speaker 9>the Johnson landslide, is the one that's been betrayed by

0:35:27.040 --> 0:35:31.000
<v Speaker 9>American politicians for so long. And I am, I'm a

0:35:31.040 --> 0:35:33.239
<v Speaker 9>grown man, and perhaps I can be reasoned with.

0:35:34.239 --> 0:35:35.520
<v Speaker 8>I certainly hope I can be.

0:35:37.400 --> 0:35:41.239
<v Speaker 9>But I don't know, and neither does Martin Luther King.

0:35:41.320 --> 0:35:44.640
<v Speaker 9>None of us know how to deal with those other

0:35:44.680 --> 0:35:47.359
<v Speaker 9>people whom the white world is long ignored. We don't

0:35:47.360 --> 0:35:52.040
<v Speaker 9>believe anything the white world says, and don't entirely believe

0:35:52.600 --> 0:35:57.600
<v Speaker 9>anything I or Martin say. And one can't blame them.

0:35:57.719 --> 0:35:59.359
<v Speaker 9>You watch what has happened to them in less than

0:35:59.360 --> 0:35:59.960
<v Speaker 9>twenty years.

0:36:01.160 --> 0:36:06.200
<v Speaker 1>I mean, James Baldwin's voice is beautiful, and it sounds

0:36:06.239 --> 0:36:09.920
<v Speaker 1>pretty close to British to my untrained ears.

0:36:10.440 --> 0:36:13.360
<v Speaker 8>He was a performer. I'm a huge admirer of Baldwin,

0:36:13.400 --> 0:36:16.279
<v Speaker 8>but he also he was cultivating a persona. But to

0:36:16.280 --> 0:36:24.320
<v Speaker 8>be honest, I just hear black and nineteen twenties New York.

0:36:24.719 --> 0:36:26.640
<v Speaker 8>If anything to me, he sounds like Earth a Kit,

0:36:27.160 --> 0:36:29.720
<v Speaker 8>and Earth a Kit was not trying to sound British.

0:36:29.760 --> 0:36:30.960
<v Speaker 8>He was trying to sound like Earth the Kit.

0:36:31.800 --> 0:36:34.640
<v Speaker 1>I want to be evil. That's my favorite. Earth the Kid,

0:36:35.120 --> 0:36:39.359
<v Speaker 1>the kids, I want to be mean. One interesting point here,

0:36:39.440 --> 0:36:42.000
<v Speaker 1>and tell me if you think this factored in. James

0:36:42.080 --> 0:36:46.000
<v Speaker 1>Baldwin's stepfather was a preacher. I wonder if that had

0:36:46.040 --> 0:36:46.680
<v Speaker 1>any bearing.

0:36:50.239 --> 0:36:54.680
<v Speaker 8>You know, it probably did, because Baldwin had a very

0:36:54.680 --> 0:36:58.840
<v Speaker 8>close relationship to the preaching and the church and the

0:36:58.880 --> 0:37:03.319
<v Speaker 8>performance aspect of that. That definitely would have affected him.

0:37:03.800 --> 0:37:05.759
<v Speaker 8>What you're not supposed to say, though, and I'm going

0:37:05.800 --> 0:37:07.560
<v Speaker 8>to say it because I think many people are thinking it,

0:37:07.600 --> 0:37:10.640
<v Speaker 8>is that another thing he was doing I think was

0:37:10.719 --> 0:37:14.480
<v Speaker 8>imitating the way many gay men of that time spoke.

0:37:14.560 --> 0:37:18.000
<v Speaker 8>I think that there's some amount of playing with that

0:37:18.080 --> 0:37:20.680
<v Speaker 8>dynamic too, So if there's the preaching, there's the performing,

0:37:21.040 --> 0:37:24.359
<v Speaker 8>There is his sexuality, there is his blackness. You could

0:37:24.400 --> 0:37:26.920
<v Speaker 8>pour all of those things and mix them up and

0:37:26.920 --> 0:37:30.160
<v Speaker 8>almost predict that what would come out is him saying

0:37:30.239 --> 0:37:31.800
<v Speaker 8>matn in the way that he does.

0:37:33.280 --> 0:37:38.120
<v Speaker 1>We spent so much time focusing on the eastern part

0:37:38.160 --> 0:37:41.279
<v Speaker 1>of the United States. Let's hear a clip from a

0:37:41.320 --> 0:37:44.920
<v Speaker 1>great playwright from Chicago, Lorraine Hansbury.

0:37:45.280 --> 0:37:50.880
<v Speaker 13>In other words, what I was trying to say exactly

0:37:50.920 --> 0:37:54.920
<v Speaker 13>the opposite of what you paid attention to. That is

0:37:54.960 --> 0:38:00.719
<v Speaker 13>that we are not concerned, or perhaps to say, I

0:38:00.719 --> 0:38:05.880
<v Speaker 13>am not concerned with doing away with the mere paraphernalia,

0:38:06.880 --> 0:38:14.799
<v Speaker 13>traditional paraphernalia of the inexpressive, crude Negro character. That is

0:38:14.880 --> 0:38:20.880
<v Speaker 13>not the point. I very arbitrarily, very deliberately of thought

0:38:21.040 --> 0:38:24.440
<v Speaker 13>and intention, chose to write, for instance, and I come

0:38:24.440 --> 0:38:29.120
<v Speaker 13>from the Negro middle class about the Negro working class deliberately.

0:38:29.200 --> 0:38:31.520
<v Speaker 1>So I love the way she talks.

0:38:31.800 --> 0:38:34.920
<v Speaker 8>There's something about the way she spoke. And what's interesting

0:38:34.960 --> 0:38:37.359
<v Speaker 8>is that she has a few arms in there. She's

0:38:37.520 --> 0:38:41.280
<v Speaker 8>almost certainly smoking chainsmoker, and so there's some false starts

0:38:41.320 --> 0:38:45.080
<v Speaker 8>as she kind of composes her thoughts while taking puffs

0:38:45.239 --> 0:38:49.000
<v Speaker 8>on the cigarette, and yet I must admit, as a

0:38:49.040 --> 0:38:51.719
<v Speaker 8>modern linguist, I spend a lot of time arguing that

0:38:51.760 --> 0:38:57.320
<v Speaker 8>there are no grounds for looking down on new speech habits,

0:38:57.760 --> 0:38:59.879
<v Speaker 8>and I very much mean it, But I must admit

0:39:00.000 --> 0:39:02.840
<v Speaker 8>I'm going to only say this once on this show,

0:39:03.040 --> 0:39:04.879
<v Speaker 8>and I'm never going to say it again. I must

0:39:04.960 --> 0:39:08.839
<v Speaker 8>admit I liked that she wasn't saying like and sort

0:39:08.920 --> 0:39:12.360
<v Speaker 8>of every two seconds, because her equivalent today, including that

0:39:12.480 --> 0:39:14.600
<v Speaker 8>she could be just as fierce, just as educated, just

0:39:14.640 --> 0:39:19.600
<v Speaker 8>as talented, it would be sort of every four sentences

0:39:19.680 --> 0:39:22.680
<v Speaker 8>or so. That's not as good as we just heard.

0:39:23.160 --> 0:39:26.360
<v Speaker 8>And it's because she lived in a time when public

0:39:26.480 --> 0:39:29.799
<v Speaker 8>eloquence was still valued in a way that it just

0:39:29.880 --> 0:39:33.480
<v Speaker 8>isn't today. You don't grow up living under the strictures

0:39:33.520 --> 0:39:35.240
<v Speaker 8>that she did in terms of how you were expected

0:39:35.239 --> 0:39:37.320
<v Speaker 8>to speak in public. And she didn't sound like George

0:39:37.360 --> 0:39:41.480
<v Speaker 8>Washington's inaugural address, but that was different from all of

0:39:41.520 --> 0:39:46.160
<v Speaker 8>the humble hesitations that are part of the way most

0:39:46.239 --> 0:39:50.000
<v Speaker 8>modern people express themselves. I must admit I'd rather hear that.

0:39:50.480 --> 0:39:53.919
<v Speaker 1>Her father was a successful real estate broker, her mother

0:39:54.040 --> 0:39:58.359
<v Speaker 1>was a ward committee woman in municipal politics, so they

0:39:58.360 --> 0:40:01.920
<v Speaker 1>were rich, but there's something And she describes herself as

0:40:01.920 --> 0:40:03.719
<v Speaker 1>a member of the Negro middle class.

0:40:03.400 --> 0:40:07.560
<v Speaker 8>Middle class and not and she wrote about the Negro

0:40:07.640 --> 0:40:11.040
<v Speaker 8>working class. But she went to school beside you know,

0:40:11.120 --> 0:40:13.839
<v Speaker 8>many white people, and she lived in an environment where

0:40:13.840 --> 0:40:15.600
<v Speaker 8>there was a sense that if you were going to

0:40:15.640 --> 0:40:18.440
<v Speaker 8>present yourself in public, you had to speak in a

0:40:18.480 --> 0:40:21.319
<v Speaker 8>certain way. And I am quite sure that she did

0:40:21.320 --> 0:40:24.960
<v Speaker 8>not think of herself as speaking whitely. She thought of

0:40:25.000 --> 0:40:27.640
<v Speaker 8>herself as speaking the way one was supposed to in

0:40:27.760 --> 0:40:29.360
<v Speaker 8>order to go out into the world and try to

0:40:29.360 --> 0:40:30.040
<v Speaker 8>make a difference.

0:40:30.120 --> 0:40:31.720
<v Speaker 1>You know, I had to say, of all the clips

0:40:31.760 --> 0:40:35.600
<v Speaker 1>we've heard, this is the one that if I heard today,

0:40:37.040 --> 0:40:41.560
<v Speaker 1>I would say, I really like hearing this person talk.

0:40:41.800 --> 0:40:44.520
<v Speaker 1>This is this doesn't seem like a put on, This

0:40:44.560 --> 0:40:47.640
<v Speaker 1>doesn't seem alien to me. It's like she's speaking in

0:40:47.680 --> 0:40:52.759
<v Speaker 1>a way that's almost a bridge between that accent we've

0:40:52.760 --> 0:40:55.080
<v Speaker 1>been talking about and today.

0:40:56.200 --> 0:40:59.600
<v Speaker 8>Because she is somebody who's in her late twenties in

0:40:59.600 --> 0:41:02.560
<v Speaker 8>that clip, I think, and she's speaking in.

0:41:03.080 --> 0:41:06.719
<v Speaker 1>That nineteen sixty is nineteen sixty one.

0:41:06.800 --> 0:41:09.120
<v Speaker 8>Okay, yeah, And so she has learned to speak in

0:41:09.160 --> 0:41:12.719
<v Speaker 8>the middle of the previous century. So she's not going

0:41:12.800 --> 0:41:17.319
<v Speaker 8>to sound as arch as say black female activist Mary

0:41:17.360 --> 0:41:19.880
<v Speaker 8>McLeod Bethune, where if you listen to her making speeches,

0:41:19.880 --> 0:41:23.920
<v Speaker 8>she sounds like Eleanor Roosevelt. But she also Lorraine Hansbury

0:41:24.080 --> 0:41:27.440
<v Speaker 8>is not a modern person yet, and so she speaks

0:41:27.440 --> 0:41:31.319
<v Speaker 8>with a certain crisp directness. You sense that she knows

0:41:31.320 --> 0:41:33.200
<v Speaker 8>there's a microphone in front of her, and she's therefore

0:41:33.239 --> 0:41:34.879
<v Speaker 8>supposed to switch into a certain mode.

0:41:35.040 --> 0:41:39.759
<v Speaker 1>And she treats her vowels right surely. But she's also

0:41:39.800 --> 0:41:42.279
<v Speaker 1>from the Midwest, and we love the Midwest.

0:41:41.960 --> 0:41:45.359
<v Speaker 8>And therefore there's none of the weird rlessness. She's got

0:41:45.400 --> 0:41:48.680
<v Speaker 8>her proper urs. Yeah, that's let's make her the voice

0:41:48.719 --> 0:41:50.840
<v Speaker 8>of the twentieth century. That's the best voice of the

0:41:50.840 --> 0:41:51.640
<v Speaker 8>twentieth century.

0:41:51.680 --> 0:41:57.719
<v Speaker 1>I really really loved that clip. So what happened to

0:41:57.800 --> 0:42:00.440
<v Speaker 1>the accent? The last time I hear it in the

0:42:00.520 --> 0:42:04.239
<v Speaker 1>movie was probably twenty oh four in The Aviator when

0:42:04.320 --> 0:42:06.440
<v Speaker 1>Kate Blinchett played Katherine Hepburn.

0:42:07.200 --> 0:42:11.080
<v Speaker 12>It's all been a grand adventure, but it couldn't possibly last.

0:42:11.840 --> 0:42:14.920
<v Speaker 1>But to alike you and I, the truth is some

0:42:15.040 --> 0:42:18.960
<v Speaker 1>Golden Age actors had never adopted it through the thirties

0:42:19.000 --> 0:42:22.720
<v Speaker 1>and forties, manly man actors like Gary Cooper and Clark

0:42:22.760 --> 0:42:26.000
<v Speaker 1>Gable brazenly brandished their rs.

0:42:26.200 --> 0:42:28.200
<v Speaker 8>Frankly, might hear I don't give a damn.

0:42:28.480 --> 0:42:30.959
<v Speaker 1>But then the accent started disappearing.

0:42:32.080 --> 0:42:35.520
<v Speaker 8>There certainly seemed to come a time after World War Two,

0:42:36.040 --> 0:42:39.880
<v Speaker 8>and no one knows exactly why when that accent was

0:42:39.960 --> 0:42:41.879
<v Speaker 8>no longer fashionable.

0:42:42.520 --> 0:42:46.520
<v Speaker 1>The war itself was probably a factor, with infantrymen from

0:42:46.520 --> 0:42:50.520
<v Speaker 1>all over the country mixing accents in dialects blending together.

0:42:51.320 --> 0:42:54.800
<v Speaker 1>And then, six years after the war ended, a film

0:42:54.840 --> 0:42:58.880
<v Speaker 1>performance that dealt a blow to the accent. Here's Jessica

0:42:58.960 --> 0:42:59.920
<v Speaker 1>Drake again.

0:43:00.280 --> 0:43:04.600
<v Speaker 4>Marlon Brando and Streetcar Name Desire changed a lot of

0:43:04.640 --> 0:43:08.520
<v Speaker 4>people's ideas about what had to happen, certainly in movies

0:43:08.560 --> 0:43:12.520
<v Speaker 4>and entertainment and in the theater in terms of speech.

0:43:12.560 --> 0:43:16.279
<v Speaker 6>You know what I say, ha ha, you hear me.

0:43:18.760 --> 0:43:21.600
<v Speaker 4>But I also think that the culture began to shift

0:43:21.680 --> 0:43:29.000
<v Speaker 4>because the television came about. Now we had sources from

0:43:29.080 --> 0:43:32.200
<v Speaker 4>all over the country, but a lot coming from the West,

0:43:32.840 --> 0:43:37.440
<v Speaker 4>which in many ways to this day I would say,

0:43:38.560 --> 0:43:41.560
<v Speaker 4>has gone a long way to kind of leveling a

0:43:41.560 --> 0:43:45.920
<v Speaker 4>lot of regionalisms too, not just the Northeastern elite sound

0:43:45.960 --> 0:43:47.200
<v Speaker 4>but all accents.

0:43:47.840 --> 0:43:52.080
<v Speaker 1>The year after Brando in Streetcar, the movie musical Singing

0:43:52.160 --> 0:43:56.600
<v Speaker 1>in the Rain, with a hilarious scene between the ridiculously

0:43:56.760 --> 0:44:01.640
<v Speaker 1>untalented actress played by the wonderful Genie Hagen being tutored

0:44:01.880 --> 0:44:06.360
<v Speaker 1>by an equally ridiculous addiction coach played by Kathleen Freeman.

0:44:07.080 --> 0:44:08.960
<v Speaker 5>Now, let me hear you read your line.

0:44:09.960 --> 0:44:11.920
<v Speaker 7>And I can't stand him.

0:44:12.680 --> 0:44:16.160
<v Speaker 5>And I can't stand him.

0:44:15.600 --> 0:44:17.840
<v Speaker 7>And I can't stamn.

0:44:19.040 --> 0:44:23.600
<v Speaker 8>Can't get can't.

0:44:24.960 --> 0:44:25.240
<v Speaker 6>Kid.

0:44:26.760 --> 0:44:29.719
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, you know that's a good that's a good timeline piece,

0:44:29.760 --> 0:44:32.879
<v Speaker 8>because there that is it's nineteen fifty two and they're

0:44:32.920 --> 0:44:36.200
<v Speaker 8>making fun of the idea that there's a certain plumby

0:44:36.239 --> 0:44:38.279
<v Speaker 8>way that people need to learn how to talk. And

0:44:38.400 --> 0:44:41.680
<v Speaker 8>that's that's a sign of the times. That character wouldn't

0:44:41.680 --> 0:44:44.240
<v Speaker 8>have been as funny in nineteen forty two.

0:44:44.560 --> 0:44:48.840
<v Speaker 1>And then thirty years later The knockout punch against the Accent,

0:44:49.480 --> 0:44:54.240
<v Speaker 1>a nineteen eighty two performance by Hollywood heavyweight Meryl Streep.

0:44:54.800 --> 0:44:59.200
<v Speaker 19>I don't care that I would die. I'm afraid that

0:44:59.239 --> 0:44:59.719
<v Speaker 19>you would die.

0:44:59.719 --> 0:45:04.000
<v Speaker 1>With a to me, what is the significance of Sophie's choice?

0:45:04.840 --> 0:45:09.719
<v Speaker 4>I think it made a huge impact because Meryl Streep's

0:45:09.760 --> 0:45:17.560
<v Speaker 4>Polish accent is flawless and real, and it does so

0:45:17.800 --> 0:45:22.920
<v Speaker 4>much to amplify the emotional life of that character and

0:45:23.000 --> 0:45:24.680
<v Speaker 4>the truth of that story.

0:45:25.200 --> 0:45:29.080
<v Speaker 19>So I hid it maham under my skirt on the train.

0:45:29.640 --> 0:45:33.200
<v Speaker 19>I'm pretending that I am pregnant, you know, Oh you're

0:45:33.440 --> 0:45:36.400
<v Speaker 19>so afraid shaking.

0:45:37.200 --> 0:45:41.040
<v Speaker 4>And I think after that, suddenly it became very important

0:45:41.719 --> 0:45:44.880
<v Speaker 4>to get the accents right. And everyone's trying to be

0:45:45.160 --> 0:45:48.920
<v Speaker 4>real now and not a fantasy or better than us

0:45:49.000 --> 0:45:51.480
<v Speaker 4>in the old days of the Golden Age and Louis B.

0:45:51.600 --> 0:45:54.760
<v Speaker 4>Mayer it's not that at all. It's now, let's really

0:45:54.800 --> 0:45:55.879
<v Speaker 4>get down in it.

0:46:01.880 --> 0:46:03.839
<v Speaker 1>And do you miss what I guess we'll just call

0:46:03.960 --> 0:46:05.600
<v Speaker 1>this old timey accent.

0:46:06.520 --> 0:46:08.920
<v Speaker 8>You know something, though, I don't miss it. And the

0:46:09.040 --> 0:46:13.839
<v Speaker 8>reason is because one with home video and streaming such

0:46:13.840 --> 0:46:15.680
<v Speaker 8>as it is, so much of it is at our

0:46:15.719 --> 0:46:17.600
<v Speaker 8>fingertips that we can have it whenever we want it.

0:46:17.640 --> 0:46:21.600
<v Speaker 8>And too, I enjoy listening to the variety of normal

0:46:22.280 --> 0:46:25.640
<v Speaker 8>modern voices. To me, it's all just a menagerie of

0:46:25.960 --> 0:46:30.480
<v Speaker 8>different vowels and consonants and melodies and slang and new

0:46:30.520 --> 0:46:33.360
<v Speaker 8>ways of using words. So no, I don't miss it,

0:46:33.360 --> 0:46:34.520
<v Speaker 8>but I think it's very charming.

0:46:37.480 --> 0:46:40.279
<v Speaker 1>As for me, I kind of do miss it, and

0:46:40.440 --> 0:46:46.120
<v Speaker 1>you never know, it could come back and I'll be ready.

0:46:47.320 --> 0:46:50.000
<v Speaker 1>It's a coffee lover's dream.

0:46:50.400 --> 0:46:52.200
<v Speaker 4>That's your best line. Excellent.

0:46:56.239 --> 0:46:59.600
<v Speaker 1>I hope you enjoyed this Mobituary. May I ask you

0:46:59.640 --> 0:47:02.799
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0:47:02.840 --> 0:47:07.160
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0:47:07.200 --> 0:47:10.600
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<v Speaker 1>available in paperback and audiobook. This episode of Mobituaries was

0:47:30.120 --> 0:47:34.440
<v Speaker 1>produced by Aaron Shrank. Our team of producers also includes

0:47:34.600 --> 0:47:39.680
<v Speaker 1>Hazel Brian and me Moroka, with engineering by Josh Han.

0:47:40.040 --> 0:47:43.719
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0:48:01.400 --> 0:48:06.840
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