1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:06,120 Speaker 1: You're listening to Math and Magic, a production at iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 2: If you are in a situation where you have you know, 3 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 2: once in a century pandemic and the economy is locked down. 4 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:16,479 Speaker 2: Peoples are dying by the thousands, even though the tens 5 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:19,639 Speaker 2: of thousands around the world kids cannot go to school anymore. 6 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 2: He becomes a human decision to decide to throw by 7 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 2: the window your business strategy and to do what you 8 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 2: think is the right thing for the world, even though 9 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 2: if you're wrong, you might actually kill the company. 10 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 3: I am Bob Pittman. Welcome to this episode of Math 11 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 3: and Magic. Our guest today has literally changed the world, 12 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 3: proving that the impossible can be done, and he's a 13 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 3: model of the CEO as someone in service to society. 14 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 3: Is Stefan Thenselve, CEO of Majoernal. He grew up in 15 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 3: France and always knew what he wanted to be a CEO, 16 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 3: loved science and business, still does and is equally skilled 17 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 3: in both. Greatly influenced by the Jesuits and bring that 18 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 3: sense of service to business and his mission. Although it 19 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 3: was almost a decade after its founding, Maderna popped on 20 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 3: the scene as a savior during the pandemic, doing what 21 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 3: the experts thought to be impossible, getting a vaccine developed 22 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 3: and available within a year. And by the way, infectious 23 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 3: disease vaccines weren't even on his original company plans. He 24 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 3: loves to ski, boat and eat. Well. He's French after all, 25 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 3: and he is a fascinating and nice guy. Stefan welcome. 26 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much for having me. I thank 27 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 2: you for this very kind description. 28 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 3: Oh we have more to come, but before we jump 29 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 3: into that, I want to do you in sixty seconds. Ready, 30 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 3: good cats are dogs dogs early riser or night out, 31 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 3: very earlier Riser Paris or Boston, Paris for fund bust. 32 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 2: Some of our work skiing or sailing. That's a tough one. 33 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 2: Skiing and winter sitting in the summer coffee or tea tea. 34 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 4: Strange guy and never drinks coffee, sleep or exercise, boof 35 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 4: cook or eat out, eat outs, call or text, text 36 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 4: podcast or video podcast. 37 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 3: Oh that's the right answer. Okay, it's about to get harder. 38 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:13,079 Speaker 3: All time favorite musical artist Teto Swift, first job picking asparagus. 39 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 3: Smartest person you know, Stephen Hoogan, the President of Madonna. 40 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:23,359 Speaker 3: Childhood hero Steve Jobs. Favorite movie the gombre, the most 41 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 3: important piece of advice you've ever had. 42 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 2: Listen to everybody, and finally, do you have a secret 43 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 2: talent connecting the dots? 44 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:35,799 Speaker 3: Okay, let's get started. Probably one of the most disruptive 45 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 3: events in the world in the last hundred years was 46 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 3: the pandemic, and in a strange way, it was the 47 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 3: coming out party for Maderna, and from it comes one 48 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 3: of the business world's most impressive case studies. You were 49 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 3: employee number two in the first CEO of Maderna in 50 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 3: twenty eleven. It was a startup built around the promise 51 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 3: of Messenger RNA mRNA that it would change medicine. I've 52 00:02:57,880 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 3: seen you quoted as saying it had only a ten 53 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 3: percent chance of working, but if it did, the world 54 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 3: would change, and by during it would be something new 55 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 3: in biotech. You'd be a platform, much like the operating 56 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 3: system and the traditional tech world, a platform with RNA 57 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 3: as your operating system and broad applications writing on it. 58 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 3: You took a pay cut, left a major CEO job 59 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 3: just for the promise of Messenger RNA. You were making 60 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:28,359 Speaker 3: progress building a new company and suddenly COVID nineteen appears. 61 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:32,080 Speaker 3: Can you take us through what you did and how 62 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 3: it changed all your plans. 63 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 2: Sure, I spent all my career working in fictious disease, 64 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 2: and so I always have an eye to new virus emerging, 65 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 2: new bacteria emerging. And so between Christmas and New Year 66 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 2: twenty nineteen, as I was reading the World Street Journal, 67 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 2: I heard about new cases of pneumonia like symptoms to 68 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 2: people in China, and so I'll reached out to be 69 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 2: an IH, asking he this new thing in China, what 70 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 2: is it. After a few days, we realized it was 71 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 2: a virus. It was not through and it was not 72 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 2: a coronavirus like SARS or MERS. There was a new 73 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 2: one and so when they got the sequence online around 74 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:18,920 Speaker 2: mid January, we decided to go and make a vaccine 75 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 2: to test it in a clinic. And initially we thought 76 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 2: this was just an outbreak, but we still wanted to 77 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 2: go to the clinic because I wanted to know how 78 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 2: fast could we go if when they got forbid there 79 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:33,279 Speaker 2: was going to be a pandemic. And I thought we 80 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 2: could get into a clinic in sixty days from the 81 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 2: day the sequence is available of a virus genome. Today 82 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 2: we could inject the first human which was a huge 83 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 2: change versus what happened during SARS. It took the NIH 84 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 2: twenty months to get from sequence to first human doors, 85 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 2: and so that's why I wanted to do it. And then, 86 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 2: of course though January of twenty twenty, as the cases accumulated, 87 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 2: and I woke up one day at four o'clock in 88 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 2: the morning in sweats saying, GESEZ is going to be 89 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 2: a pandemic like nineteen eighteen. And so when he was 90 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:16,720 Speaker 2: a few weeks convincing my board, covincing my team that 91 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 2: we had to pivot the company and really put our 92 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 2: best started toward trying to work on this vaccine for 93 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 2: what I thought was going to be a pandemic. 94 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 3: So I understand though that one of the problems is 95 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 3: no one would finance the vaccine. That the only way 96 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:36,919 Speaker 3: it got done was the US government stepped then and 97 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 3: actually financed this. 98 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 2: You're correct, Moderana. I had never saw the product, We 99 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:45,840 Speaker 2: had never commercialized the product, and so we had two 100 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:51,280 Speaker 2: financial challenges as we pivoted to running after this virus. 101 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:55,839 Speaker 2: One was how do you set up quickly very large 102 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 2: It ended up being thirty thousand people tested in the 103 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 2: face free clinical trial and this was, as you said, 104 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:09,160 Speaker 2: funded by the US government, which backed up five companies, 105 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 2: which I think was one of the most brilliant strategy 106 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 2: I've seen in terms of getting things done for the 107 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,599 Speaker 2: country and the world. But the other piece that the 108 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 2: government did not back up, that we still had to 109 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 2: do at incredible risk was to scale manufacturing. Because, as 110 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:32,280 Speaker 2: you can understand, if we only finance the clinical study 111 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 2: and the vaccine works and we have no vaccine to 112 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 2: provide people, that would be a human tragedy. And so 113 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:42,160 Speaker 2: we had to scale up manufacturing, not for ten million dozes, 114 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 2: but for a billion doze, And so we couldn't find 115 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 2: any foundation to help us. And so what we ended 116 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:55,039 Speaker 2: up doing in May of twenty twenty is raised equity 117 00:06:55,600 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 2: on NASDAK as soon as we published positive phase and data, 118 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 2: and we raised one point three billion dollar and one 119 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:08,159 Speaker 2: hundred percent of that capital was dedicated to scale up manufacturing. 120 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 3: I mean, it sounds pretty tough. How hard was it 121 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 3: to pivot from not only were you going to do 122 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 3: this product, but you had really been set up and 123 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 3: built to be a platform and suddenly you're going into 124 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 3: the product business. 125 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 2: Yes, if you go back and even you read the 126 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 2: public filing. When we went public in December twenty eighteen, 127 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 2: the S one we described a company that, as you said, 128 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 2: is a platform company to manage a money technology risk 129 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 2: and to manage barrows your risk, which is disease risk 130 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 2: which exists in the industry. We actually build a portfolio 131 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 2: of drugs. We had I think sixteen drug by the 132 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:47,239 Speaker 2: time we went to public, and that portfolio of drugs 133 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 2: was to allow us to manage the unknown about where 134 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 2: was the money going to work or was it not 135 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 2: going to work? What this is was going to work for? 136 00:07:57,240 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 2: What is it was not going to work for? At 137 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 2: the time, no product ever approved using amount technology. And so, 138 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 2: as you can imagine, in January twenty twenty, when we 139 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 2: decide to pause or to slow down this portfolio approach 140 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 2: of those sixteen drugs, to literally bet the company on 141 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 2: one drug, that was a very complicated and heavy business decision. 142 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 2: We believed we had the technology that could work for vaccines. 143 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 2: We had done nine vaccine in human trials before the 144 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 2: pandemic hit. We had done quite a lot of work 145 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 2: on CHRONA viruses, cears, and mers. So we believed our 146 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 2: vaccine was going to work. And if you are in 147 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 2: a situation where you have in a once in a 148 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 2: century pandemic and the economy is locked down. Peoples are 149 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 2: dying by the thousands, if not the tens of thousands 150 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 2: around the world. Kids cannot go to school anymore. It 151 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 2: becomes a human decision to decide to throw by the 152 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:00,439 Speaker 2: window your business strategy and to do what you think 153 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 2: is the right thing for the world, even though if 154 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 2: you're wrong, you might actually kill the company. 155 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 3: So speaking of killing the company and just then reading 156 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 3: about that time, there were a lot of seasoned veterans 157 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 3: who were saying you were irresponsible to even claim you 158 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 3: could deliver a vaccine inside a year, which must have 159 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 3: put another level of pressure on you to realize that 160 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 3: you were pivoting the company. Yeah, there was hardly universal 161 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 3: views from outside that this was the right move. 162 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 5: That's correct. 163 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 2: I mean, if you had told me even in the 164 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 2: spring of twenty twenty that large companies like Sanofi was 165 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:42,559 Speaker 2: going to have massive technical setback, that the products from 166 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 2: Astraseneka and Johnson and Johnson, while they were going to 167 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 2: get approved, they would end up having some safety concerns that. 168 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 5: Will led them to not being really used. 169 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 2: And this was going to be Moderna and Pfizer left 170 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 2: to really help fight this horrible pandem. I will hearely 171 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 2: not have believed you. And as you said, a lot 172 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 2: of people from those large companies, we're saying on TV 173 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 2: that I was irresponsible to even give a hope that 174 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:12,959 Speaker 2: we could have vaccined by the end of the year. 175 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 2: That was actually a very hard time. 176 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 3: So let's talk about personal dimension for you as CEO 177 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 3: of the company, as a human being, the way that 178 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 3: the world was suddenly on your shoulders. How did you 179 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:24,839 Speaker 3: cope with that stress? What did it do to you? 180 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 2: So it's interesting my wife would tell you this is 181 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 2: actually the type of moment when it's really hard but 182 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:35,719 Speaker 2: also very clear of what has to be done, that 183 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 2: I'm at my best and I don't know why. I'm 184 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 2: able to abstract the outside noise and just to focus 185 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 2: on the work to be done. It was not the 186 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 2: time to think about do we go right or do 187 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 2: we go left. There's an enemy, it's the virus. Every day, 188 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 2: every hour matters because people are dying, and so it 189 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 2: just allowed me to be laser focused on the job 190 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 2: a task. The biggest challenge I think was more a 191 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 2: mental and physical challenge because we were working seven days 192 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,199 Speaker 2: a week, which I'd never done before. I worked hard before, 193 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,199 Speaker 2: but we were working full day Saturday's, full day Sundays 194 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 2: for a year, and so I remember starting to be 195 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 2: pretty exhausted, you know, by end of February, early in March, 196 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 2: and having a discussion with Steven, who is my partner 197 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 2: at the president of the company, and I'm like, hey, 198 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 2: how do we sustain this? Because he's a doctor, I'm not. 199 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 2: And it's like, you know, make sure you go to 200 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 2: bed at a reasonable time, do spot every day, eat healthy. 201 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 2: He knows I like wine, don't drink any wine. So 202 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 2: it was really about this discipline. And I remember because 203 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 2: at the time, you know, we were working from home, 204 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 2: you know, in the spring of twenty and twenty and 205 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 2: I remember dropping, you know, so tired in my bed 206 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 2: at night, getting up early in the morning, going for 207 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 2: a run too fresh up my mind and get some 208 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:52,200 Speaker 2: oxygen and then go back into it. And this was 209 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 2: this thing where sometimes the teams were even joking, you know, 210 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 2: get on a zoom call at seven am and somebody 211 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 2: would make the but became the more like shock what 212 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 2: they is it today? 213 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 5: Because we had no. 214 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 2: Idea, but it was an amazing time because the teams 215 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 2: internally went so beyond what is expected of them because 216 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 2: for everybody was very personal and everybody had family members dying. 217 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 2: Everybody was worry about their parents or all the family members, 218 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 2: the kids not going to school. So it was a 219 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 2: really incredible teamwork across not only the company, but companies 220 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 2: are being us and the government. That really makes me 221 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 2: really proud about what was achieved by this very large team. 222 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 3: Well, you know what is so impressive to me. You 223 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 3: know we talked on this show about leadership and management, 224 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 3: is that you were able to get your company to 225 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 3: rally around the course, you were able to sync that 226 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 3: up with the government that regulates you, in this case, 227 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 3: funding you as well. Did you do something special in 228 00:12:57,760 --> 00:12:59,839 Speaker 3: your leadership? Did you just think this is how I'm 229 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 3: going to get everybody rally around it. Was there some 230 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:04,319 Speaker 3: special sauce you used there? 231 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 2: So a few think I think being very clear on 232 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 2: the goals because if you think about it and you 233 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 2: oversimplify it. I became a project manager for this very 234 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 2: big project which was getting a vaccin out, So being 235 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 2: very clear on what are the objectives, what a goal, 236 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 2: what other priorities? Communicating with people in real time. So 237 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 2: we spend a lot of time making sure that our 238 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 2: counterparties in the governments knew what we were doing, that 239 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 2: they were aligning what we were doing, communicating a lot 240 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 2: to industrial partners, suppliers making raw materials and so on, 241 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 2: because for everybody it was a kind of crazy experimental 242 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 2: experience in a sense. I mean, just imagine the face 243 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 2: of my supplier or CEO when I call them and 244 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 2: I say, hey, I need ten thousand times more product 245 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 2: than last year. Had an interesting conversay exactly, And so 246 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 2: I think it was a lot of communication and also 247 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 2: adapting the plan of pivoting on data, pivoting on challenges, 248 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:08,119 Speaker 2: asking for help, being very transparent, and making sure everybody 249 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 2: in the ecosystem around all vaccine was always aware what 250 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 2: was going well, what was not going well, what did 251 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:17,679 Speaker 2: we need help. I was never shy to ask for 252 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 2: help because the only objective was to get a safe, 253 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 2: effective vaccine out of the door. 254 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 5: There was no overgold. 255 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 3: So I want to come back to moderna and some 256 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 3: of the lessons you've learned there, But first I want 257 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 3: to go back in time with you. You were born in 258 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 3: Marseille in France in the early seventies. You were a 259 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 3: child of the seventies and eighties. Can you paint a 260 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 3: picture of how you grew up and paint a picture 261 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:43,359 Speaker 3: of those times. 262 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 5: So I was very lucky in many ways. 263 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 2: I was born in Sappo, France, which for all of 264 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 2: you that have not been, is a beautiful part of 265 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 2: the world with a lot of history in a Marseille 266 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 2: was a Greek part as it's a very very old city. 267 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 5: It's a very multicultural cities. 268 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 2: You have people from all over the Mediterranean, people from 269 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 2: North Africa, from a Middle East, which is super cool 270 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 2: to grow up with friends from everywhere. I was, you know, 271 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 2: in a middle class family, but because you know in France, 272 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 2: school is split by the state through taxes, I had 273 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 2: access to good school. The quality of life was nice 274 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 2: because you'll go sailing. You always find a friend who 275 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 2: had access to a boat somewhere, even if it's a 276 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 2: small boat. 277 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 5: You'll be able to go skiing. Even with school. A 278 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 5: great quality of life. 279 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 2: I was raised by the Jesuit, as you said in 280 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 2: your intro, which I only realized much later in life, 281 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 2: was a blessing because this sense of serving was just 282 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 2: put into my head and my heart since I was 283 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 2: a kid, and I didn't even feel it because he 284 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 2: was normal. You know, when you're a kid, you don't 285 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 2: think about things too much. You go with a movement, 286 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 2: you know, when you are in the school I was 287 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 2: at and on a Wednesday afternoon when you don't have class, 288 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 2: instead of going to do spot over things, you know, 289 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 2: let's tell you go you know, build a shelter of 290 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 2: your less or let's go help somebody. You just say 291 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 2: yes because everybody else is doing it with you. Hi, 292 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 2: the supernice childhood. It was non eventful, but I think 293 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 2: that quietness in my life helped build strength and foundations 294 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 2: for half the times. 295 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 3: In addition to the jazzu, which it looks like. Another 296 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 3: great influence on you was an otel you had who 297 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 3: was a successful business person in tech companies in the US. 298 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 3: Was that influence? 299 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 2: Yes, So I've been super lucky. My mom's brother moved 300 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 2: to the US, was in the tech world b to be. 301 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 2: But it was interesting because I would meet him like 302 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 2: once a year in the summer, and I had somebody 303 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 2: to talk about business and technology and yet a lot 304 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 2: of influence on my life. 305 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 5: I'll be asking him questions. 306 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 2: You're like a kid asking a mental questions, and you 307 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 2: will be like, should I learn German or Spanish in school? 308 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 2: Because he was composor in France to the third language, 309 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 2: And you will answer me in this very brilliant style, 310 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 2: this is a wrong in your generation. You should learn 311 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 2: to speak Chinese or Japanese. Then that's altitude long Japanese. 312 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:09,159 Speaker 2: And that allowed me to end up working in Japan 313 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:10,879 Speaker 2: and as a twenty four year old, which was of 314 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 2: course an amazing experience. But I think having access to 315 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 2: somebody that was from a business world to allow me 316 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,679 Speaker 2: to pick direction and to see her around the corner 317 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 2: and to do the right things when I had time 318 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 2: when I was younger, I think it was a big gift. 319 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 3: More on math and magic right after this quick break. 320 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,679 Speaker 3: Welcome back to math and magic. Let's hear more from 321 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 3: my conversation with Sefon gun Sell. You were great at 322 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 3: math and science. You had an early interesting computers. Clearly 323 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 3: you were on a track to do something in technology. 324 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 3: But talk a little bit about your education and why 325 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 3: you value a liberal arts education. 326 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 2: As you asked me my secret power, of my secret gifts, 327 00:17:58,920 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 2: I think you might be connecting. 328 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:02,120 Speaker 5: I think that things are connected. 329 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,640 Speaker 2: History plays a great role, as you know, for us 330 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:08,639 Speaker 2: to understand today's world. But so where the world might 331 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 2: be going. Psychology plays a huge role in leading teams. 332 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:16,439 Speaker 2: You know, of course science and biology. I like to 333 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:20,399 Speaker 2: learn from different fields and had to basically build a 334 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 2: metal model or how the world works, and those different 335 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 2: experiences and those different educations I think make the metal 336 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 2: model that somebody can have more precise about the world. 337 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 3: You've later got a master's and engineering in Paris and 338 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:40,439 Speaker 3: another in Minnesota. What brought you to America for your 339 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 3: second masters? 340 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 2: So I always wanted to find a way to learn 341 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:47,119 Speaker 2: in America, and I was lucky because the school I 342 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 2: was at in Paris gave you the opportunity to do 343 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:53,400 Speaker 2: your last year outside France. But it was a very 344 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 2: simple system, which is you can apply anywhere you want 345 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 2: as long as it's one of the top three program 346 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 2: in the discipline what you apply. And so Minnesota has 347 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:06,679 Speaker 2: an amazing chemical engineering program in grad school, which was 348 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 2: great for me to discover America through being in Minneapolis. 349 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 3: Had to be a lot of fun. In January that 350 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:18,400 Speaker 3: was called and here's what's interesting about your story? Thought, 351 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:23,239 Speaker 3: We've got this whole history of engineering, math, science and 352 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 3: then your first tech company job was in sales and marketing. 353 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:27,200 Speaker 5: Why. 354 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,639 Speaker 2: I think it's the contrariance in me. I wanted to 355 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:35,400 Speaker 2: keep learning. As I think you mentioned the new introw Bob, 356 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 2: I always wanted to be CEO. I don't have a 357 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 2: big ego, so I would have been happy car Wis 358 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 2: being a se of a ten people company. I just 359 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 2: wanted to be in the general management role of connecting 360 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,159 Speaker 2: the dots and so being tan as an engineer, I 361 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 2: thought it made sense for me to don't know about business, 362 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,640 Speaker 2: and because sales you are close to the customers. 363 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 5: I thought you was good. 364 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:58,680 Speaker 2: I did to do and that's what I did and 365 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 2: have a counterexamp. Part of me being a contrariant is 366 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:04,719 Speaker 2: after I left the business school instead of going to 367 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 2: a small company, because I graduated in spring of two thousand, 368 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 2: when of course we had that Pickle dot Com. Instead 369 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,399 Speaker 2: of going to tech, I ended up going into a 370 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 2: large farmer company called Ili Lily, and I asked them 371 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 2: to go work in manufacturing over places, which even the 372 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 2: Lily recruiting team thought was a weird idea for our business. 373 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:28,200 Speaker 3: Could grad you went through that, you got your MBA 374 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 3: harder NBA. By the way, did worked with Ili Lily 375 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:35,400 Speaker 3: and somehow you wound up as a very young CEO 376 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 3: a Beyo Mario, which was a major company at the time. 377 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 3: Tell me a little bit about how this young, brand 378 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 3: new CEO figured out how to do it. 379 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 2: It was interesting because when I got the role, as 380 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 2: you said, I I was young. I think I was 381 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 2: just thirty three, and so I was a bit panicked, 382 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 2: and so I obsessed about getting the best team I 383 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:01,880 Speaker 2: could around me. So I literally the job and spend 384 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 2: the first two months on an airplane going around the 385 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 2: world to meet all as many people as I could, 386 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 2: asking everybody the same question if you're a CEO, the 387 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 2: three things you will change, and so I got very 388 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 2: constant feedback. I think it's another big lest soon for me, 389 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,879 Speaker 2: which is ask people. Most humans beings will tell you 390 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 2: what they think. And I got very constant feedback. But 391 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 2: the strength of a company, the issues. I got a 392 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:27,439 Speaker 2: good sense of who I wanted to keep on the 393 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 2: executive team, who I should not keep on exective team, 394 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 2: And so I always obsessed about getting the right team 395 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,959 Speaker 2: around me because I had no chance to be successful 396 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 2: in that neural As a first time you're on CEO, 397 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:42,639 Speaker 2: if I have already a great team around me, and 398 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:44,399 Speaker 2: so that's what I focused. 399 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,239 Speaker 3: On, you know, and sort of reading about you and 400 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,639 Speaker 3: studying you a little bit. In addition to listening hard, 401 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 3: there's thingmably two other things that you really focus on, 402 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:57,880 Speaker 3: which is focus and scale. How did those three things 403 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 3: come together? And I hope my analysis is correct? Why 404 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 3: are they so important? 405 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:02,959 Speaker 5: I mean? 406 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 2: The focus, I believe is the only way you get 407 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:10,320 Speaker 2: things done that are complicated and important. I think most 408 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 2: people get distracted by trying to do too many things 409 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 2: or too many things not good enough to have an impact. 410 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 2: The listening piece is about getting the data. I'm an engineer. 411 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:22,680 Speaker 2: I believe in data. 412 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 5: You know. 413 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 2: One of our motel at MODERNA is we period fearlessly 414 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 2: on new data. Sometimes you shock people. I'm able to 415 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 2: say we need to turn right and change our plan. 416 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 2: If it's telling you you need to change your plan, 417 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 2: then every hour you wait not changing the plan is 418 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,639 Speaker 2: and now you're wasting That could hurt somebody given the 419 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 2: business line I mean, And so listening for me is 420 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 2: key to get the right data. The focus is key 421 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:55,399 Speaker 2: to implement and execute on big important projects or task 422 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,400 Speaker 2: and the skill is about impact, which is the great 423 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:04,400 Speaker 2: thing about what we do making medicine is if we're 424 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 2: right and if we do our jobs well, by focusing 425 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 2: on the right things, we can help a lot of people. 426 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 3: How do you think about risk? How do you size them? 427 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 3: And how do you decide which ones to take? 428 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 2: So risk, in my opinion, has to be balanced with 429 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:27,879 Speaker 2: upside or opportunity, which is taking a big risk for 430 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 2: something that's not going to change the world is foolish, 431 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,440 Speaker 2: if not madness. A good example how I think about 432 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 2: risk is the decision to go to Moderna, to resign 433 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 2: from the CEO of your Maria to become employe number 434 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 2: two of this startup, which is just an idea with 435 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 2: no money. I think we're two million dollars to start with, 436 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 2: which is not a lot in biotech. And all my 437 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 2: friends tell me, don't do it. All my friends that 438 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,359 Speaker 2: I talked to tell me don't do it. The risk 439 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 2: was very large. But for me, the obside was this technology. 440 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 2: If we could find a path to make safe, it 441 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,159 Speaker 2: was going to change medicine forever, and so it was 442 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:09,439 Speaker 2: going to change humanity forever. And the metal mode that 443 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 2: I had, I could take almost any risk because the 444 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 2: obside was so important for humanity, because the true inside 445 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 2: is I was going to potentially build a company that 446 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,880 Speaker 2: would go bankrupt, But what is the risk of that 447 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,719 Speaker 2: we just use the risk of not bringing to the 448 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,159 Speaker 2: world the technology would save. 449 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:28,880 Speaker 5: A lot of our lives. 450 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 3: You've talked a lot about teams, and clearly that's part 451 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 3: of your go to strategy. Any secrets about building a 452 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 3: good team and how to use them. 453 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,640 Speaker 2: Yes, so team is my number one go to think. 454 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,640 Speaker 2: The most important things I learned about business school. It's 455 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,359 Speaker 2: not about finance or other technical things which I learned 456 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 2: and I've forgotten a lot of it. It's about the 457 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 2: power of having smart people with as much of a 458 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 2: diggers background as you can, especially us from your way 459 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 2: of thinking, because you need to understand where the blind 460 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 2: spots are. We all have blind spots. I'm biased. I 461 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 2: believe everybody is biased, and we are the fruit of 462 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 2: our own life, of own experience. And so what I 463 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,399 Speaker 2: really was impressed when I was in business school is 464 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,920 Speaker 2: sometimes that will really a business case work on it. 465 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,200 Speaker 2: I thought I would have cracked the case and I've 466 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,200 Speaker 2: got to class the next day, and a lawyer or 467 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,120 Speaker 2: a doctor or somebody from a part of the world 468 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:37,640 Speaker 2: I don't know where come with a totally different analysis 469 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 2: and what I had and there is stronger. And so 470 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 2: I've seen time this time and time again, and this 471 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 2: has really helped me to think about how do you 472 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 2: build a team that, in my business is very mission driven, 473 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 2: because you can do great things if people are driven 474 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 2: about the career or about themselves. It has to be 475 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 2: about what we're trying to achieve, and that those people 476 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 2: have different skills and different insights or way to think 477 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 2: about the world. And you're also together you can get 478 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,680 Speaker 2: a better sense for the facts so that you can 479 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,639 Speaker 2: have a better chance to define the right problem to 480 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 2: work on. 481 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 3: So if you deal with your teams, you know something 482 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 3: that comes up when you have different people, different points 483 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:30,199 Speaker 3: of view is the scent. What place does it have 484 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 3: in your management philosophy. 485 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 5: I think it's key going back to the world listen. 486 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 5: I think it's kids to listen. 487 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, somebody has to 488 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,119 Speaker 2: make a decision, and so I think the heart of 489 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,200 Speaker 2: the decision, the more it's debated, the more you need 490 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 2: to give time to a decision. I'm very impatient type 491 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,439 Speaker 2: of guy, but I think I have a good sense 492 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,640 Speaker 2: and judgment of when it's a big decision and how 493 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 2: you need to debate it to really hear out the 494 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:03,359 Speaker 2: best ideas and also opposition to the idea. But at 495 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 2: the end of the day, somebody needs to make a 496 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 2: call again, do we go right or left? Sometime, as 497 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 2: you know, making no decision is actually terrible, and I 498 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 2: think it's a role of a leader to listen, but 499 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 2: then to weigh with his or her model of the 500 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,640 Speaker 2: world the risk and be upside, and to decide I'm 501 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 2: going to take that swing on that. 502 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,919 Speaker 3: You talked about this unusual moment during the pandemic. But 503 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 3: how do you think about in ordinary terms your work 504 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:34,400 Speaker 3: life balance your work life inaeggration. 505 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 2: Yes, so I'd like to say internalie, I don't believe 506 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 2: in work life balance because my life is not balanced. 507 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 2: The word I use, which is close to your integration world, 508 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:48,439 Speaker 2: is harmony. I'm trying to have harmony between my work 509 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:55,440 Speaker 2: and my life, and this in my experience requires iterations, 510 00:27:55,920 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 2: a lot of dialogue at home for example. Or you know, 511 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 2: when I realized if I don't do sports, I don't 512 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 2: sleep well and I'm not as good a person at work. 513 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 5: And at home. 514 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,479 Speaker 2: Then one day I realized I had to get up 515 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,199 Speaker 2: early to work out in the morning because if I 516 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 2: worked out at night, I couldn't sleep well. But the 517 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 2: change when you get up at four in the morning 518 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:23,439 Speaker 2: is you have to do bed early, which makes you 519 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 2: a very, very boring partner. And so we talked about 520 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:29,119 Speaker 2: it with my wife and we discussed and agree that 521 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,119 Speaker 2: was the right thing to do. It was important for 522 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,200 Speaker 2: me to try to be home for dinner with the 523 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 2: kids when they were homes so we'll go to work early. 524 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 2: So I had to go to work out even earlier. 525 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 2: And it's the type of things that I think you 526 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 2: need to figure out the world system so it can 527 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,719 Speaker 2: be sustainable, because the key is not to have a 528 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 2: strategy that works for a while, it has to work 529 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:49,120 Speaker 2: for years. 530 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 3: So digitalization something that's a hot button for you. What 531 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 3: are companies missing and why and how is it critical 532 00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 3: to every business? 533 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 2: So at the end of the day, what we all 534 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 2: do in most companies is we use data to make decisions. 535 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 2: And so the quality of the data, having access to 536 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 2: data in real time across the enterprise is what I 537 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 2: believe differentiates people over time. Because what's interesting about business 538 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 2: and time is that nobody can buy time, so it's 539 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 2: a pretty nice equalizer. And the other piece is that 540 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 2: knowledge increase exponentially with time, but the exponential thinking that 541 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 2: we see in tech, that we see in investments in 542 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 2: the financial world, this is not intuitive to people, and 543 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 2: so I think digitalization is really important because that's the 544 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 2: best way to get high quality data to make the 545 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 2: right decision. It allows you to go fast, which again, 546 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 2: given nobody can buy time, if you can go faster 547 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 2: than other people, your competitors regularly well as time compounds 548 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 2: be way ahead of the time. It allows you to scale. 549 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 2: Scaling with paper is impossible. You get actually these economies 550 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 2: of scale. I believe it's all about digitalization, and of 551 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 2: course AI is just gonna accelerate that even further. 552 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 3: Let's jump back to modern what's coming up next for 553 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 3: you for medicine and help. 554 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 2: Our next big mountain, which I think is going to 555 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 2: be even more impactful and what we did for COVID 556 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 2: is cancer. We have some very interesting clinical data in 557 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 2: skin cancer miranoma showing that compared to the best drug 558 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 2: available today to patients, we have two out of three 559 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 2: people which three us after the surgery, are still this 560 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 2: is free. Metastas is free compared to the best drug 561 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 2: available today. I think we find a way to individualize spreetmat. 562 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:58,240 Speaker 2: Whereas if you and I get diagnosed by the same 563 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 2: doctor on the same day of skin cancer, modern I 564 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 2: will make a different medicine for you and for me. 565 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 2: We can't do that in around thirty days now from 566 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 2: start to finish, and we really customize the drug to 567 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 2: the genetics of your cancer for your immune system to 568 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 2: be able to go literally eat your cancer. And so 569 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 2: I think, and I told our team when we got 570 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 2: the data and we shut the data publicly and internally, 571 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 2: it's all our team out of town or that five 572 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 2: to ten years from now, most people will have forgotten 573 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 2: what we did during the pandemic, because I believe we 574 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 2: will be known as one of the company that made 575 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 2: the biggest dent on cancer in the industry. 576 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 3: So time. We usually end each episode of Math and 577 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,240 Speaker 3: Magic with shout outs to the grades on both sides 578 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 3: of business, the analytical side and the creative side. But 579 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 3: in your case, I want to give you the shout 580 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 3: out what you and your team did at such a 581 00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 3: critical time for the entire world truly all history and 582 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 3: we all owe you a great debt of gratitude, and 583 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 3: although you think people will have forgotten it, I suspect 584 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 3: you'll be in the history books forever. Congratulations of building 585 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 3: such an impressive company, and thanks for sharing your insights 586 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 3: with us. 587 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 5: Thank you so much for a kind of world's bovement. 588 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 5: Thank you for having me. 589 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 3: Here are a few things I picked up from my 590 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 3: conversation with Stefan. One, taking care of yourself is essential 591 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 3: to taking care. 592 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 1: Of your company. 593 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 3: As CEO, you need to be in the right mental 594 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 3: space to leave. Stefan was put to the ultimate test 595 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 3: during the pandemic, working seven days a week for months 596 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 3: on end, and he had to figure out how to 597 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 3: sustain it, for instance, by making time early in the 598 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 3: morning for exercise. We're not all racing to fight life 599 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 3: threatening diseases, but Stefan's story is a case study in 600 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 3: bringing your best self to work. 601 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 5: Two. 602 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 3: Never lose sight of the mission. Stefan has a crystal 603 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 3: clear sense of purpose that keeps him driven. Whatever your 604 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,960 Speaker 3: big picture goal may be, let it keep you focused 605 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 3: and guide your decisions big and small. It's also a 606 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 3: great way to assess the trade off of risk and reward. 607 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:15,840 Speaker 3: Three remain open to learning, listening to diverse opinions, staying 608 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 3: up to date with changing data, and serving in multifaceted 609 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 3: roles all ways of educating yourself about your company and 610 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 3: your industry at large. And that's always going to be 611 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 3: an asset. I'm Bob Pittman. Thanks for listening. 612 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: That's it for today's episode. Thanks so much for listening 613 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,240 Speaker 1: to Math and Magic, a production of iHeart Podcasts. The 614 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 1: show is created and hosted by Bob Pittman. Special thanks 615 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 1: to Sydney Rosenblum for booking and wrangling our wonderful talent, 616 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 1: which is no small feat. The Math and Magic team 617 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:54,959 Speaker 1: is Jessica Crimechitch and Baheed Fraser. Our executive producers are 618 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 1: Ali Perry and Nikki Etour. Until next time.