1 00:00:01,840 --> 00:00:04,840 Speaker 1: La Brega is back this season. We're spending time with 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: the people and symbols that represent Puerto Rico. 3 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 2: We're proud Borricos and what does that mean? 4 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 3: And we are still terrified. 5 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: We're telling stories about champions from a place worth fighting for, 6 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:22,240 Speaker 1: stories that will inspire you no matter where you're from. 7 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: Come okay, wow, this is La Brega Campeones. Listen early 8 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 1: and ad free with Fuluto Plus. 9 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 4: It's Maria no Josa and I have a quick favor 10 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 4: to ask you. If you like listening to Latino USA 11 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 4: on Spotify, will you take a second and hit follow 12 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 4: us on the show page because I want to make 13 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 4: sure you don't miss a single episode and that you 14 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 4: don't waste time looking for episodes every week. And if 15 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 4: you found us through one of Spotify's daily mixes, following 16 00:00:56,600 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 4: the show directly is the best way to keep the episodes. Yes, yes, 17 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:04,319 Speaker 4: and here's the show. 18 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 5: So the Tuba reflected that search for liberation, the liberation 19 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 5: of your own possibilities and creativity that was happening in 20 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 5: the immigrant world. There was like almost a Tuba civil 21 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 5: rights movement, breaking away from the chains of what constrained us. 22 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 5: And these are attitudes that other people believe that we 23 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 5: ought to be both physically at the back of the 24 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 5: band and literally too. 25 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:46,679 Speaker 4: From Futuro Media, It's Latino Usa. I'm Maria Josa Today 26 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:50,919 Speaker 4: a conversation with Sam Kinnez Award winning journalist and author 27 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 4: of the book. 28 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 3: The Perfect Tuba. 29 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 4: We talk about how a crime and opioid reporter becomes 30 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 4: obsessed with the tuba, is unext to journey that he 31 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 4: embarked on in the band world, and what all of 32 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 4: us can learn from the tuba's low sound. When you 33 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 4: think of a tuba, what's the sound you hear in 34 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:21,919 Speaker 4: your head? Is it the sound of a marching band 35 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 4: performing in a football stadium, or is it something more 36 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:33,519 Speaker 4: like this sound you might hear in a symphony hall. 37 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 4: Maybe it sounds more like this like it does for me. 38 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 4: That's the sound of a tuba in its starring role 39 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 4: as part of a traditional Mexican banda the booming, dancing 40 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 4: bassline that makes the music thumb. Unless you play, you 41 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 4: might not know that there are actually many different kinds 42 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 4: of tubas, and they all have different sounds. Here's a 43 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 4: quick lesson the sound you might associate with a traditional 44 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 4: school band in the United States is actually a contra 45 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 4: bass tuba. Then there's the bass tuba, which is a 46 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 4: smaller version of the instrument sometimes used in classical orchestras. 47 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 4: And then there's the susophone, also a tuba and arguably 48 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 4: the most common image for many of us in the 49 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 4: United States. It's that really large brass instrument you usually 50 00:03:54,520 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 4: see engulfing a small kid on a field. And over 51 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 4: the last decade or so, the tuba has been having 52 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 4: well kind of a moment. It's become more popular, more respected, 53 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 4: and a big part of it has to do with 54 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 4: its growing respect as a pillar of Mexican banda music. 55 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 3: As banda music became. 56 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 4: More popular in the US, so did the tuba, so 57 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 4: much so that in La in the mid two thousands 58 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,840 Speaker 4: there was a series of robberies in local schools. But 59 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 4: they weren't breaking into steal computers or electronics. 60 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 3: The robbers were after the tubas. 61 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 6: Schools in Los Angeles are experiencing a rash of tuba. 62 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 7: Thus this is a big story here in Los Angeles. 63 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 7: I thought i'd share with you guys. 64 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm just this steels tubas And that's how journalists 65 00:04:56,839 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 4: and author Sam Kijonez first found his way into the 66 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 4: world of tubas. 67 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,919 Speaker 5: And then you know what happened was after that, I 68 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:07,040 Speaker 5: just began to interview tuba players. 69 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 2: I don't play the tuba. 70 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 5: I was never in band, but I've always been attracted 71 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:15,840 Speaker 5: to writing about people who are doing things because they 72 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 5: love them, not being from any promise of wealth or 73 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 5: fame or anything like that, but just they love it. 74 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 5: And tuba players and later band directors definitely fit that description. 75 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 5: And so I, just as I was writing about the 76 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 5: opioid epidemic and fetnyl in me, I would occasionally interview 77 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 5: tuba players. 78 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 4: It was just kind of a fascinating story, a light, 79 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 4: curious tale in the midst of heavy reporting that he 80 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:43,039 Speaker 4: was doing on the opioid epidemic, which later became a 81 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 4: New York Times best selling book. But Sam Kinyoniz could 82 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:51,720 Speaker 4: never quite stop coming back to the tuba, and eventually 83 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 4: following this interest would take over years of his life. 84 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 4: For this episode, Sam Kigjuniz tells me how he tried 85 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 4: all over the country following the history of the tuba, 86 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 4: the people that play it, and the band instructors that 87 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 4: dedicate their lives to using this underappreciated instrument to change 88 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 4: the lives of their students. 89 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 3: Here's Sam. 90 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 5: My name is Sam Canonas. I'm a longtime journalist and 91 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 5: freelance writer. I'm the author of five books of narrative nonfiction, 92 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:28,840 Speaker 5: including my latest, which is called The Perfect Tuba, Forging, 93 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 5: Fulfillment from the Base, horn Band. 94 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:31,839 Speaker 2: And hard Work. 95 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 5: Much of my work has covered issues connected to immigration, Mexico, 96 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 5: drug trafficking, drug profiteering in the United States, and an 97 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 5: our drug addiction epidemic. The moment when I had to 98 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 5: write about something else came after I finished my last book, 99 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:48,840 Speaker 5: The Least of Us, which is about fentanyl. I'm not 100 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 5: them fetament and that's pretty causing just gasly consequences on 101 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 5: the streets of the United States. I really didn't want 102 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 5: to write another book. That was my second book about 103 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 5: drug trafficking and drug addiction, and I had worked years 104 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:04,279 Speaker 5: before at the La Times. I'd written two stories while 105 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 5: at the La Times about the importance of the Tuba 106 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 5: and Mexican Los Angeles immigrant LA And of course the 107 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 5: Tube in LA is just enormously important in the Mexican 108 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 5: immigrant world, and so. 109 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 2: I wrote this story about how popular it was. 110 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 5: Trumpet players were switching to the tube because they got 111 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 5: paid more. 112 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 2: And the day came out on. 113 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 5: The front page of the La Times, I got a 114 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 5: call from a band director who says, yes, all that's 115 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 5: very true, thank you for writing it. But did you 116 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 5: know that because of that, we're getting on all our 117 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 5: tubas stolen? 118 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 2: And so there was this whole rash of tubas being stolen. 119 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 5: From area high schools because of the popularity. 120 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 2: Of the tuba. 121 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 4: As part of his research, Sam found that before the 122 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 4: tuba became an in demand instrument worth stealing, for a 123 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 4: long time, it really wasn't very cool to play the tuba. 124 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 2: The tube was at the back of the band. Nobody 125 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 2: really believed the. 126 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 5: Tuba player could really be a musician. You're just doing very, 127 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 5: very basic stuff. 128 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 2: This was especially true in banda, which is such an 129 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 2: important instrument. 130 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 5: Tub his and the banda director would I was, you 131 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 5: just do your thing and let the trumpet players, the 132 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 5: alto sacks guys be the stars and everything. 133 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 2: And then one came Chelino Sanchez. 134 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 5: In the late eighties early nineties, who was an underground 135 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 5: narco corrido singer of many of his songs were with 136 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 5: Banda and he sang kind of like almost it was 137 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 5: polka music, but it was almost like gangster rap, themes, 138 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:53,680 Speaker 5: shootouts at local villages in Mexico, and that his life, 139 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 5: his songs, and then his murder and Lady ninety two 140 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 5: made the tuba into this hugely popular thing in Mexican 141 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 5: immigrant Los Angeles. So tuba went through this feeling of 142 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 5: breaking away from the chains of what other people thought 143 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:19,839 Speaker 5: both a musician and the instrument could do. I found 144 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 5: this living in Mexico for many years writing two books 145 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 5: about Mexico. 146 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:25,080 Speaker 2: That the immigrants came looking for the same thing. 147 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 5: So the tuba reflected that search for liberation, the liberation 148 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 5: of your own possibilities and creativity that was happening in 149 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 5: the immigrant world. There was like almost a tub of 150 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 5: civil rights movement, breaking away from the chains of what 151 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 5: constrained us. And these are attitudes that other people believe 152 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 5: that we ought to be, both physically at the back 153 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:49,599 Speaker 5: of the band and literally too. 154 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 4: When we come back, we continue hearing from journalists and 155 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 4: author Sam Kinyonez about how burnout led him to some 156 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 4: of the most fascinating people it ever encountered, and later 157 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 4: we learn about the mysterious Chicago, Yorks, the mystical perfect Tubas, and. 158 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 5: I said, if I ever write a book about this, 159 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 5: one of the main through lines is the search to 160 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 5: replicate the perfect tubos. 161 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 2: That's what kept me going for twelve years. 162 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 3: Stay with us, Yes. 163 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 6: Tomos, triveto mastros Espanol podcast, no itos platica and Espanol hicano, real, 164 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 6: normalicana slang noticias inclusive, obsis gramaticalist, is listening authentic, I'm 165 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 6: interested conversation, authentic. 166 00:10:56,679 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 7: Partica, si escuchanos and Spotify, Apple podcasts. You two all 167 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:13,319 Speaker 7: check a no Ito's podcast. It's Latino USA. I'm Marie 168 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 7: no Josa. 169 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 4: We're going to continue with the story about how journalist 170 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:20,599 Speaker 4: and author Sam Kinyonez researched and reported his book The 171 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 4: Perfect Tuba As. 172 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 5: I was writing about the opioid epidemic and fetanyl and 173 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 5: I would occasionally interview tuba players all across America. And 174 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 5: when the last book was done, I told my agent, 175 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 5: you know, maybe it's time for me to do something else, 176 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 5: and she said, how about you see what you might 177 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:37,959 Speaker 5: be able to write about that tuba project that you've 178 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 5: got big file on the back of your computer and 179 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 5: it turned into this beautiful, wondrous project that was exactly 180 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 5: what I needed to write about after all the stuff 181 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 5: I had been writing. One of the people I talked 182 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 5: to was a guy named Bob Carp, who is both 183 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 5: a tuba player of the Orlando Symphony and also a 184 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 5: rocket scientist. 185 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 2: He's a space engineer worked for NASA for a while. 186 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 2: I can't remember why. 187 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:11,559 Speaker 5: Exactly I called him, except for I was talking to 188 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:13,839 Speaker 5: tuba players a lot, and he mentioned, have you heard 189 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 5: of the two Holy Grail? 190 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 2: I think he called them the Holy Grail tubas? And 191 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 2: I'm like, what the hell are you talking about, man? 192 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 5: And he went on to tell me that there are 193 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 5: these two tubas made by the York Instrument Company in 194 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 5: Grand Rabbits, Michigan. Very shortly after that defunct and bankrupt, 195 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 5: made two custom tubas for a tuba player who never 196 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:36,439 Speaker 5: really could play them. Long story, but basically the tubas 197 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 5: became eventually the property of Arnold Jacobs, who was went 198 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 5: on to be the main tuba player for the Chicago 199 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 5: Symphony for forty years, and these two tubas he transformed 200 00:12:50,200 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 5: them through his own playing, but also from the absolute 201 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 5: stellar quality of these two instruments. Even today, I don't 202 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 5: think there really have been equal Nine companies have tried 203 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 5: to make these tubas, and sure enough, you listen to 204 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 5: tuba players talk about these tubas like the holy Grail, 205 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 5: these mystical, legendary horns. They would play make you into 206 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:29,679 Speaker 5: a better musician. Everybody knows what you're talking about. In 207 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 5: the tuba world when you say the Chicago, Yorks. You 208 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 5: have this little radar within you as a journalist, and 209 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 5: you hear a story and you go. 210 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 2: Holy. And I said, if I ever write a book 211 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 2: about this. 212 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 5: One of the main through lines of many in this book, 213 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 5: but one of the main ones is the search to 214 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 5: replicate the perfect tubas. 215 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 2: That's what kept me going for twelve years. I didn't 216 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:09,680 Speaker 2: want to make this a history book. 217 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:11,559 Speaker 5: I wanted to make this a book of characters, of 218 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 5: stories about people. But the tube is the youngest brass 219 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 5: instrument in the orchestra. It very much is an instrument 220 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 5: that's still being monkeyed with. They're still coming up with 221 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 5: different kinds of tubes on like trumpets and others. What 222 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 5: I thought was very interesting because it's new, because there's 223 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 5: so few written rules regarding it, or fewer and other instruments. 224 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 5: If you don't go through conservatories to become a great 225 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 5: tuba player, it's frequently high school band, local municipal bands. 226 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 2: Circus bands, marching bands. 227 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 5: That's what I loved about it as well that the 228 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 5: tuba because it's new, because the rules are still being written. 229 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 5: It attracted people who were kind of rebels and iconoclasts, 230 00:14:53,600 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 5: but dressed like mister Rogers. And I would say that 231 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 5: probably the most important of all of them was a 232 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 5: guy who's still around, Alfredorejon from He was from michu 233 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 5: Wa Khan but moved to Kolia Khan for the bunda work. 234 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 5: He came from a family and musicians. He was very 235 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 5: fluid on the trumpet, so he applied a fluidity that 236 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 5: the tuba never had when he began when he took 237 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 5: up the tuba playing for a banda Tierra Blanca named 238 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 5: after the famous or notorious neighborhood. 239 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 2: In Kolya Khan. 240 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 5: And the way he explained it to me was that 241 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 5: his band director was not the dictator that other band 242 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 5: directors were, and in fact, many of the banda directors 243 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 5: were true. 244 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 2: Dictators, and so he was allowed a lot more freedom. 245 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 2: It's all about liberty. 246 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 5: Of finding your own way into your own own capabilities 247 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 5: and possibilities. And he began to mess around with different basslines, 248 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 5: very different, although they don't sound strange to us, very 249 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 5: different at the time, and in fact, in one song, 250 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 5: in particular, the classic Cranch Migoses recorded I Believe in 251 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 5: nineteen ninety seven, he recorded some strange for. 252 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 2: The time bass lines. 253 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 5: Again, it was almost like when rock guitar players listened 254 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 5: to Jimi Hendrix or something like that, you know, or 255 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 5: if sax players listened to Charlie Parker. Tuba players, Mexican 256 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 5: tuba players, particularly those in La who heard Migos does 257 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 5: from the banda Cera Blanca with al Freda nineteen ninety seven. 258 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 2: It transformed their world. 259 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 5: It totally like all of a sudden, they saw, Oh 260 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 5: my god, I don't have to just play this like 261 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 5: my bunda director says, I must, I could do different things. 262 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,879 Speaker 5: The story made me expand my story from tuba players 263 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 5: to include band directors as well. 264 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 3: We'll be right back. 265 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:45,199 Speaker 8: Yes, if you're looking for some of the sharpest takes 266 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:47,920 Speaker 8: on film and television, I hope you'll tune in to 267 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 8: critics at large from The New. 268 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 3: Yorker over year at Critics at Large. 269 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 1: We like talking about what we love, but crucially what 270 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: we hated about what we're watching. 271 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 5: But even more we like making sense of what's happening 272 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 5: in the culture right now and how we got here. 273 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 8: Join us as we make our way from Eddington to 274 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 8: Moby Dick, from Ted Lasso to the Rise in Therapy, 275 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,160 Speaker 8: speak from the Pit to Luigi Manjon. 276 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 1: It's Critics So Large, from The New Yorker wherever you 277 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. 278 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 3: Hey, we're back. 279 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:21,359 Speaker 4: I'm going to wrap up my conversation with journalists and 280 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 4: author Sam kin Juniz. We've been talking about his research 281 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:29,119 Speaker 4: around the Tuba's history and performers, and now Sam explains 282 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 4: how he learned about a whole world of fascinating people 283 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,639 Speaker 4: leading bands, people that you and I might never have 284 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 4: heard about, but who are doing incredible things for their students. 285 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 4: That's how he heard about the instructors at Lopez High 286 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 4: School in Brownsville and Roma High School in the RGV 287 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 4: the Rio Grand Valley. 288 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 5: Romo is a small town eleven thousand people, very isolated 289 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:54,879 Speaker 5: up in the real Ground Valley in Texas, and had 290 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 5: a band that really was going nowhere, really didn't amount 291 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 5: of much didn't ever, and to mount to much. And 292 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:06,919 Speaker 5: then the school superintendent hired a visionary band director who 293 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 5: was teaching nearby, a guy named al Cortinas. And al 294 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:13,879 Speaker 5: Cortinas came with an understanding of the economics of the 295 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 5: real Grand Valley. It's a very, very poor area with 296 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:21,119 Speaker 5: kids who cannot afford music lessons. They can barely afford 297 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 5: their instruments, and certainly this was a major problem, and 298 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,640 Speaker 5: he understood that in order for bands in this area 299 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 5: to compete with some of the wealthiest bands out of 300 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:36,119 Speaker 5: suburbs of Dallas or Austin or whatever. He creates a system, 301 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 5: the Cortinas system of teaching band to kids who cannot 302 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:43,680 Speaker 5: afford music lessons, and the school superintendent and go along 303 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 5: with it involves a significant investment in band. You hire 304 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 5: a teacher for clarinet, you hire a teacher for each instrument, 305 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 5: and that teacher spends his or her entire year teaching 306 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:58,680 Speaker 5: every kid who plays say clarinet or Alto Sachs or whatever, 307 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 5: teaching every kid in the district. And what ends up 308 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 5: happening is when you have that attention and that kind 309 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 5: of cohesion and that bonding of teacher and student the 310 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:10,159 Speaker 5: students get. 311 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 2: Much much better. 312 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 5: And so this little small band, dwarfed by these bands 313 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 5: from Dallas, Fort Worth and Austin, is now a major competitor. 314 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:32,479 Speaker 5: It competes head to head with these very very wealthy bands, 315 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 5: maybe predominantly white bands in the suburbs of some of 316 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 5: the wealthy centers of Texas. 317 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 4: In two thousand and three, Lopez High was named the 318 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 4: very first Texas Honor band from the Rio Grande Valley, 319 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 4: and twenty years later, Roma High would go on to 320 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:52,400 Speaker 4: be the lone star at the border in the map 321 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 4: of state finalists. The others, while they were all indeed 322 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 4: from wealthy urban areas. 323 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 2: They're not winning. 324 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 5: But the point is this rama used to produce a 325 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 5: few college students. Now most of the band is going 326 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 5: to college in something. But see this is the point. 327 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,639 Speaker 5: Almost the entire band graduates, which is very different from 328 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 5: other kids that's high school and others. And so it's 329 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 5: about teaching kids the habits, the attitudes, the practices that 330 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,439 Speaker 5: allow them to succeed. It doesn't mean that everyone's going 331 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 5: to be a musician, far from it, but it shows 332 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 5: them what they're capable of, and they go on and 333 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:30,639 Speaker 5: they do that. 334 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 2: They don't win. They don't have the. 335 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:36,920 Speaker 5: Resources still to compete against some of these amazing schools 336 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:39,439 Speaker 5: near Austin and tech servers of Austin. 337 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 2: But that is not the point. 338 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:46,400 Speaker 5: All the kids at first may have rebelled against the discipline, 339 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 5: against the relentless repetition of music and phrases within a 340 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,399 Speaker 5: certain piece, and all that, but all of them. I 341 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,160 Speaker 5: spoke to kids who are in those bands twenty years ago, 342 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 5: I was there in twenty twenty three. 343 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 2: All of them are doing very very well. 344 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 5: In many different chosen professions, very middle class lives they 345 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,400 Speaker 5: all lead now. And all of them said, the best 346 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:12,639 Speaker 5: thing that ever happened to me was this profound discipline 347 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:16,879 Speaker 5: instilled in us by alf Cortinez or Rudri Barreda or 348 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 5: George S. Pavino down in Alopez High School in Brownsville. 349 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 4: Sam says it was all due to the sacrifices of 350 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 4: band instructors just like al Cortinez, who at times were 351 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 4: nearly twenty hours a day to make sure his students 352 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 4: had access to instruments that they felt supported and knew 353 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 4: that it was possible to achieve great things with a 354 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:45,440 Speaker 4: lot of hard work and dedication. 355 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 5: There was no miraculous transformation of a person into some 356 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,359 Speaker 5: great musician from one year to the next. Two was 357 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 5: always taking these small steps, and I think speaking with 358 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 5: his ex students, and I spoke about a half dozen, 359 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 5: it was always that he wanted us to know that 360 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:05,439 Speaker 5: the true improvement in your life comes in small steps. 361 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 5: And again this was like an attitudinal change from what 362 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 5: we really are taught to think is important, which is 363 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 5: immediate gratification in this culture we have today. So I 364 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 5: cannot explain to you why I kept interviewing tuba players 365 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 5: long after I'd left the all the times. 366 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 2: The stories were done. Why would I keep doing this. 367 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 2: I don't play this sound on the tube. I never 368 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:29,440 Speaker 2: was in band. 369 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 5: I just it became this consuming passion, very much like 370 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 5: the way tubas become for the people who play it 371 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 5: and then stick with it and get better and better 372 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 5: and better. And then if that's all they want to do, 373 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:44,680 Speaker 5: and they I want to talk about and tuba is 374 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,919 Speaker 5: their thing, and it became that way for me too, 375 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 5: And I think I was proven right again that if 376 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:57,640 Speaker 5: you stick with people who love something deeply that they're 377 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 5: doing without any promise of wealth or fame, you will 378 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 5: in time come upon some of the greatest stories you 379 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 5: have ever heard, and with this book, that's exactly what happened. 380 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 5: I would say that what unites the people that I 381 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:23,880 Speaker 5: wrote about in The Perfect Tuba is that they grew 382 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 5: to love something so much that they were willing to 383 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 5: put in the hard work, the focus, the discipline, the 384 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,680 Speaker 5: collaborate with others. They were willing to go to extraordinary 385 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 5: lengths to get better. And the fact that they didn't 386 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,920 Speaker 5: feel that initially, I think is a great lesson for 387 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 5: all of us. We're told to find our passion, and 388 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 5: a lot of people just think it's like we get 389 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:58,439 Speaker 5: hit by a thunderbolt. Oh that's my passion. 390 00:24:58,520 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 6: No. 391 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 5: The way you develop passion for something is by working 392 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 5: hard at it long enough so that you get good 393 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 5: at it. 394 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 2: And from that feeling of getting good at it, you 395 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:10,119 Speaker 2: also feel. 396 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 5: What you are capable of, what's possible in your lives, 397 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:18,400 Speaker 5: and it opens up all kinds of new possibilities. From 398 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 5: working hard at one thing, from getting better at it 399 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 5: little by little by little. You may not stick with 400 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 5: it for the rest of your life, but it shows 401 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 5: you how to get to places in other endeavors, how 402 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 5: to get to places that fill you with fulfillment, with contentment, 403 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 5: with a feeling of having accomplished something important, for finding 404 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 5: that meaning, that purpose in your life. 405 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 2: That is an. 406 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 5: Absolutely perfect antidote to all the toxic crud, the illegal drugs, 407 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 5: but all the illegal crap that is shoveled at kids 408 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 5: to relentlessly in our culture today. And it's when I 409 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:09,640 Speaker 5: realized that band directors and tuba players were teaching kind 410 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 5: of an antidote to all this that I began to 411 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:16,159 Speaker 5: understand that what I had stumbled on was really a 412 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 5: book that was far more profound than I ever imagined, 413 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 5: and it had lessons for today's America that. 414 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 2: Were absolutely supremely important. 415 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 5: That you need to work hard, that you need to 416 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 5: pursue something in spite of failure, keep on postpone gratification, 417 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 5: collaborate with others. All of these kinds of things lead 418 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 5: to a happy life. We have forgotten that. 419 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,119 Speaker 3: That was journalist and author Sam Guignonez. 420 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 4: His new book is called The Perfect Tuba Forging Fulfillment 421 00:26:52,880 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 4: from the Base, horn Band and Hard Work. This episode 422 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 4: was produced by Juliata Martinelli. It was edited by Marlon Bishop. 423 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 4: It was mixed by Julia Caruso. Fernanda Echavari is our 424 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 4: managing editor. Nancy Drujillo is our production manager. The Latino 425 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 4: USA team also includes Proxanna Guire, Rebecca Vara, Renaldo, Leanoz Junior, 426 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 4: Stephanie Laba, Luis Luna Fidi, mar Marquez, Monica Morlis Garcia 427 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:40,920 Speaker 4: and Adriana Rodriguez. Benile Ramirez and I are executive producers. 428 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 4: I'm your host Maria Ojosa. Latino USA is part of 429 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 4: Iheart's Michael Durda podcast Network. Executive producers at iHeart are 430 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 4: Leo Gomez and Arlene Santana. Join us again for our 431 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,200 Speaker 4: next episode. In the meantime, look for us on all 432 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 4: of your social media. I'll see you on Instagram and 433 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 4: don't forget your listener to join Plus so easy and. 434 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 3: You don't get any ads. Do it and you'll be 435 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 3: so happy. Yes, Joe. 436 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:13,479 Speaker 8: Latino USA is made possible in part by the Heising 437 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 8: Simons Foundation, Unlocking knowledge, opportunity and possibilities more at hsfoundation 438 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:26,639 Speaker 8: dot org, the Tao Foundation, and the Ford Foundation, working 439 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 8: with visionaries on the front lines of social change worldwide.