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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

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Speaker 1: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

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Speaker 1: dot com.

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Speaker 2: Hi, Ryan Grim, how's it going?

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Speaker 3: It goes? Got my earbuds figured out?

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Speaker 4: Nice.

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Speaker 3: The phone kept insisting that it was going to take

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Speaker 3: the earbuds, So yeah, I told the phone, guess what,

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Speaker 3: no bluetooth for you.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, that's it.

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Speaker 3: You cut off now that earbuds have no choice.

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Speaker 2: When you learn your lesson, they can get a bluetooth back. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's well, I was just recounting the travails of my face.

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Speaker 2: That's all you missed so far.

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Speaker 3: I know that story.

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Speaker 2: So anyway, there's a lot to get to you this morning.

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Speaker 2: I think what we're probably going to do. We're going

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Speaker 2: to go through the LEAs with the terraces, which are

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Speaker 2: like on and off again, and who knows what's going

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Speaker 2: to happen there. Ryan, have you just give it exactly exactly.

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Speaker 2: We'll have Ryan give us big updates on Israel and

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Speaker 2: ceasefire negotiations and what's going on there. We've got some

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Speaker 2: new Zorah and Mondani pulling out of New York that

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Speaker 2: is looking interesting. I'm starting to I'm starting to believe

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Speaker 2: he could pull it off. What do you guys think.

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Speaker 3: I'll never believe it until it happens.

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Speaker 5: I believe it.

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Speaker 3: And then and Cuomo will run like buffalo style in

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Speaker 3: the general election against him, So he's gonna have to

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Speaker 3: beat him twice.

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Speaker 2: If what's the name of the woman, what's the name

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Speaker 2: of the woman? Forgetting her name?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a buffalo mayor, that's right.

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Speaker 2: I covered that so closely too. But in any case,

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Speaker 2: she beats the like corrupt incumbent, major underdog victory, grassroots

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Speaker 2: like people powered victory, and then they just turn around

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Speaker 2: and run this dude in the general elect Did he

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Speaker 2: run as a Republican or an independent, I don't remember.

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Speaker 3: I think even a Republican.

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Speaker 2: I think he did, and he's able to win in

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Speaker 2: the general. So I could see Quomo Pole in the

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Speaker 2: same and I think there's a good possibility it would work.

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Speaker 2: There's no laws in New York City that would prevent that.

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Speaker 3: Well, he already has a ballot line because New York

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Speaker 3: has like a hundred different parties and the Constitution Party

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Speaker 3: in this party, so he actually he doesn't even have

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Speaker 3: to do anything. He's and he's already on the ballot

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Speaker 3: for the general if he wants it.

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Speaker 2: Damn, that's correct.

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Speaker 6: Way a star is born was so wrong. But yes,

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Speaker 6: he's been launched.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, his first campaign when he ran for.

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Speaker 2: Oh did you really? He was on my radar.

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Speaker 3: He was part of this wave of DSA candidates who

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Speaker 3: won in the cycle after like AOC and the squad

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Speaker 3: one in twenty eighteen, and then this whole wave of

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Speaker 3: DSA candidates won state, Senate and state.

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Speaker 2: I remember that council seats in twenty Yeah, I remember that,

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Speaker 2: and he was.

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Speaker 3: One of them.

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Speaker 2: DSA and also I'm sure Working Families Party back they had. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: they had a great a great eight track record, a

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Speaker 2: great like election season right in that in that era.

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Speaker 2: So we'll do all that, I think probably then for

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Speaker 2: premiums we're going to do You've got the polster who

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Speaker 2: did the like Abundance Versus Populism poll. Yeah, we're going

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Speaker 2: to talk to you, which I'm excited about. I need

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Speaker 2: to take a look. Have you guys seen the Abundance

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Speaker 2: world criticisms of this poll, because I do want to

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Speaker 2: ask him about some of those, so I've got to

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Speaker 2: take a look.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so smart. Basically the criticisms are hilarious. One is that, well,

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Speaker 3: this is not electoral, it's not supposed to poll.

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Speaker 2: Well, but they explicitly say like a political project. I mean,

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Speaker 2: we've all I've asked Eric about that. I mean they're

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Speaker 2: you know, say that quite explicitly. So that's fine.

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Speaker 3: And then they say whenever a somebody with an agenda

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Speaker 3: designs a poll, you can't trust it. And so what

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Speaker 3: they have the people who organized the poll said, okay,

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Speaker 3: you like, look at the wording, like it's your wording.

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Speaker 3: Tell us precisely how you'd like to do it, and

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Speaker 3: we'll redo it so we can talk to tell and

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Speaker 3: the polster about that, because they said, give us your words,

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Speaker 3: you write another poll that is the most lopsided pro

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Speaker 3: abundance poll that you can think of, and we'll test it.

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Speaker 3: Let's see.

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Speaker 2: I feel that confident, Yeah, in the results, I mean,

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Speaker 2: I think fairly so. And then this I've I've been

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Speaker 2: excited to have this conversation with the two of you guys,

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Speaker 2: Ben Shapiro taking shots at the OVONN, I mean, listen,

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Speaker 2: obviously it's because he's not happy with the OVONN being like,

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Speaker 2: this is a genocide in Kaza and I have a

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Speaker 2: problem with it. But I do think some of the content,

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Speaker 2: like putting that aside, some of the content of what

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Speaker 2: Shapiro said about the number of grown adults who aren't

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Speaker 2: acting their age, I thought that was kind of interesting,

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Speaker 2: and I wanted to get your thoughts on if there's

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Speaker 2: any there there putting aside the like, you know, the

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Speaker 2: Israel bias, like that piece of it. So wanted to

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Speaker 2: get to that as well. But let's go ahead and

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Speaker 2: start with what's going on with the tariffs. So last

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Speaker 2: week left off, the tariffs were off because the court

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Speaker 2: ruled this this what is it Court of International Trade

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Speaker 2: rule that the tariffs exceeded the powers of AIPA the

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Speaker 2: authority they were using to do the across the board

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Speaker 2: Liberation Day tariffs. Now we have another court that has

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Speaker 2: weighed that has said, listen, there's an appeal process that

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Speaker 2: is going to play out, and in the meantime, we

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Speaker 2: are going to reinstate those tariffs for now. So they say.

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Speaker 2: A federal appeals court on Thursday granted the Trump administration's

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Speaker 2: request to temporarily pause a lower court ruling that struck

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Speaker 2: down most of President Trump's terariffs. Trump administration and early

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Speaker 2: told the US Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit

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Speaker 2: it would seek emergency relief from the Supreme Court as

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Speaker 2: soon as Friday if the tariff ruling was not quickly

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Speaker 2: put on pause. So they are headed to the Supreme Court.

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Speaker 2: There's one other piece of this I want to put

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Speaker 2: up before I get to start with Emily's reaction, because

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Speaker 2: I'm very interested in what you have to say about this.

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Speaker 2: So Trump, in response to this starts tearing into the

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Speaker 2: Federalist Society, which is involved in vetting all of these judges,

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Speaker 2: and specifically tears into Leonard Leo, the head of the

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Speaker 2: Federal Society, who is so influential in conservative circles and Emily,

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Speaker 2: I know you'll be able to speak to that better

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Speaker 2: than anyone. Here's Snania's like commentary on this, which I

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Speaker 2: also think is sort of a stude. He says, Trump

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Speaker 2: now denouncing the Federalist Society, saying he doesn't want their

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Speaker 2: judges anymore, pretty much the last tie to conservatism as

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Speaker 2: an ideology. We're getting judges from now on who act

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Speaker 2: like sickophants in the administration. But anyway, I won't read

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Speaker 2: this whole thing, but this is just him like really

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Speaker 2: going after Leonard Leo and calling them back room hustlers

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Speaker 2: and all these sorts of things. So Emily, tell us,

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Speaker 2: you know, how is this being received in conservative world

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Speaker 2: and what is your view of the import here?

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Speaker 6: This is how a lot of conservatives actually feel about

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Speaker 6: Leonard leon now and I shall, oh, really maga conservatives.

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Speaker 6: There's a difference between the sort of old conservative movement

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Speaker 6: that is still really loyal to the Reagan crew and

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Speaker 6: the Reagan years and the Reagan legacy, and then there's

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Speaker 6: Maga world, which has been frustrated, particularly by Amy Coney Barrett,

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Speaker 6: sometimes by Brett Kavanaugh, and then also by some of

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Speaker 6: these lower judges, these lower court judges, and so it's

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Speaker 6: not really surprising that Donald Trump has had that planted

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Speaker 6: in his ear and that he would even like kind

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Speaker 6: of organically feel frustrated by that. It's just a matter

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Speaker 6: of time before that, you know, even boils over further.

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Speaker 6: But it was interesting in that true Social Post because

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Speaker 6: he also says he doesn't even really think it's Leonard Leo's.

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Speaker 4: Fault, So like he spends the first half of the

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Speaker 4: truth Social Post.

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Speaker 6: Unloading on Leonard Leo and then being like, but actually,

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Speaker 6: like these judges, it's these these judges are just a

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Speaker 6: complete and total disaster.

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Speaker 4: So it was weird because.

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Speaker 2: Nilla says they're communist judges.

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Speaker 6: Communist judges, right, which certainly would have nothing to do

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Speaker 6: with Leonard Leo. So anyway, all that is say, it's

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Speaker 6: pretty like, I wonder where this goes from here in

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Speaker 6: conservative world because the Supreme Court all day the White

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Speaker 6: House yesterday was saying we're going to take this up

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Speaker 6: to the Supreme Court. Supreme Court we are utterly confident

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Speaker 6: will decide in our favor.

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Speaker 4: Well, the Supreme Court.

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Speaker 6: Donald Trump, when he says Leonard Leo helped him pick judges,

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Speaker 6: he's talking about dozens and dozens of people in lower courts,

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Speaker 6: but also the Supreme Court. Right, every single person on

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Speaker 6: the Supreme Court that is a Trump appointee or Trump

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Speaker 6: nominee was picked from the list that Leonard Leo gave

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Speaker 6: him in twenty sixteen in order to get conservative votes.

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Speaker 6: That's the lore we go back to twenty sixteen. Trump

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Speaker 6: needs to get the support of the conservative movement before

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Speaker 6: the election, and so Leonard Leo gives him a list

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Speaker 6: of judges that he will pick, and Trump picks every

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Speaker 6: single judge and justice from that list. And so now

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Speaker 6: most of the Conservative majority is Leonard Leo Trump picked,

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Speaker 6: and the White House is saying they have every bit

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Speaker 6: of confidence in them.

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Speaker 4: So it's contradict it's a self contradiction.

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Speaker 2: Of course, it's wild to think too. So first of all,

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Speaker 2: I mean, I certainly would not surprise me it's a

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Speaker 2: Supreme Court upholds the decision that the tariffs exceed the

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Speaker 2: statutory authority. Because part of the federalist society was cultural

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Speaker 2: issues and part of it is being very pro business

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Speaker 2: and business is not excited about this terror regime. Would

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Speaker 2: not surprise me at all if that was the finding.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. And also I just I mean, I

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Speaker 2: think on its face, it is a preposterate. It is

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Speaker 2: preposterous to imagine that you can as a executive claim

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Speaker 2: this much unilateral power for yourself when the power of

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Speaker 2: the person is so clearly busted in the Constitution with

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Speaker 2: the UH with the Congress. So putting that aside, it's

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Speaker 2: also ironic that, you know, back in twenty sixteen, right

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Speaker 2: after the grabber by the pussy fallout is happening, and

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Speaker 2: he's at risk of losing the evangelical right and there's

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Speaker 2: like a real, you know, potential split in the foundation

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Speaker 2: of his coalition. The way he shorees that up is

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Speaker 2: by putting out this list of like federalist society, like

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Speaker 2: here are the Supreme Court justices I will consider, like

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Speaker 2: I'm locking it in now. These are the people, and

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Speaker 2: they're your people. And that's a important part of how

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Speaker 2: he's able to keep his coalition together and secure victory.

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Speaker 2: So it's wild to now fast forward to now and

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Speaker 2: see him going after them because they're not just doing

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Speaker 2: everything he wants them to do, you know. To Hanania's

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Speaker 2: commentary there, I agree and I disagree, because obviously Trump

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Speaker 2: is his own animal and is just like the cult

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Speaker 2: of Trump. But when you look at the primary accomplishments

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Speaker 2: that he has you know, effectuated an office, it's like

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Speaker 2: destroying the administrative state. That is a big you know,

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Speaker 2: traditional Reagan type conservative goal.

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Speaker 4: It was a big Leonard Leo goal.

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Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, absolutely, you know russ vote is deeply steeped

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Speaker 2: in the conservative movement. Like this is not some rando

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Speaker 2: who hasn't been in Washington before.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 2: And then the tax cut from the first administration, which

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Speaker 2: is the number one priority right now of the second administration.

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Speaker 2: It was literally written by like Paul Ryan and the

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Speaker 2: Heritage Foundation, so it's always with him. It's like, well,

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Speaker 2: there is there are differences, but also I don't want

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Speaker 2: to overstay the amount of break that Trump is that

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Speaker 2: Trump's administration in practice has represented from Republican administrations of

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Speaker 2: the past. Ryan, what do you think about that sort

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Speaker 2: of thing?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this, like Trump is really going for a basically

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Speaker 3: a clean break, not a clean break from, but complete

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Speaker 3: domination over you know, all factions of Conservatism.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that's the way to put it. So it's not

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Speaker 2: before necessarily an ideological break, but he wants complete domination over.

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Speaker 2: I think that's the way the way to put it right, it's.

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Speaker 3: Like, Okay, you evangelicals have this these politics, You fed

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Speaker 3: SoC people have these politics. You Chamber of Commerce people

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Speaker 3: have these politics. You America First or Jendie Vance types

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Speaker 3: have this going on. It's like you all serve me.

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Speaker 3: And this is and trump Ism is what I say

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Speaker 3: it is, and that's that's how it's going to be.

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Speaker 3: And so yeah, this because if if he gets his

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Speaker 3: tariffs shut down by the Supreme Court, that's a pretty

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Speaker 3: radical rebuke to him his policy and his domination over

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Speaker 3: the entire coalition. So he seems to be you really going.

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Speaker 2: For it here, Emily.

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Speaker 6: Oh sorry, I was just gonna say, I forget who

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Speaker 6: posted this this week, but someone posted like this is

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Speaker 6: Auderborough mob shit. And it's a really good way to

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Speaker 6: put it, because I think a lot of people try

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Speaker 6: to shoehorn what Trump is doing into an ideology, but

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Speaker 6: it's actually Trump is trying to sort of shoehorn. Trump

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Speaker 6: is trying to force the ideology of the right to

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Speaker 6: be deference to Trump and there are times where it

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Speaker 6: overlaps with the goal of russ vote or the goal

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Speaker 6: of lear Lee or whatever, but particularly Russ and you know,

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Speaker 6: creating the unitary executive and restoring executive power and all

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Speaker 6: of that. But there are times when it's also just

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Speaker 6: like Donald Trump isn't overlapping with the ideological goal. Donald

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Speaker 6: Trump is just Roy Kohane as president of the United States.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, Emily. You had pool duty yesterday and

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Speaker 2: so you were there for all of you know, everything

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Speaker 2: there was to get out of this administration in terms

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Speaker 2: of the response to this court decision. Let me go

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Speaker 2: ahead and play a little bit here of Peter Navarro saying, listen,

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Speaker 2: this pause and terrorists doesn't really change anything at all.

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Speaker 7: These will not affect the negotiations in any way. You

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Speaker 7: have people out there in the world. Since we look

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Speaker 7: at the court decisions, the court was clear, as I said,

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Speaker 7: that President has brought it forward the post hariffs. They

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Speaker 7: took issue with the particular statues be used.

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Speaker 2: So there have been other indications too that they're going

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Speaker 2: to try to move forward in some way. You know,

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Speaker 2: what did you make of those comments from Navarro and

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Speaker 2: from other administration officials as well.

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Speaker 5: Well?

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Speaker 6: And that last part there about the particulars of the

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Speaker 6: statute from Peter Navarro is why the administration is projecting

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Speaker 6: utter confidence going into the Supreme Court. They feel like

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Speaker 6: they can, they feel like they're coitutional argument will be

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Speaker 6: like met with agreement from conservative Supreme Court justices, because

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Speaker 6: it's not quite as simple as just oh, you know,

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Speaker 6: President doesn't have the ability to do this. But the

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Speaker 6: question that I kept trying to get in both at

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Speaker 6: the briefing and to Navarro, and it's just some kind

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Speaker 6: of luck thing. Some people are very skilled at getting

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Speaker 6: their questions asked, like their hands super loud, or they

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Speaker 6: if you talk to White House reporters about their tricks,

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Speaker 6: it comes down to like how they smile and make.

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Speaker 3: Real craft trying to get a drink.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly, Yeah, Ingram knows what's up. So anyway, it

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Speaker 6: was the question is just if part of the problem

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Speaker 6: from this kicking through the court system is that it

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Speaker 6: creates complete uncertainty. Again, you can kill two birds with

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Speaker 6: one stone here and go through Congress, why would the

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Speaker 6: administration not pass the slate of tariffs or even like

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Speaker 6: a slightly reduced slate of tariffs through Congress, because then

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Speaker 6: that brings certainty to investors and it removes the problem

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Speaker 6: of the courts. But of course they know that they

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Speaker 6: can't pass these through Congress, they have no confidence that

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Speaker 6: they would be able to get you know, Ron Johnson

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Speaker 6: and the Susan Collins, they sort of hardcore fiscal conservatives,

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Speaker 6: but also moderate conservatives.

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Speaker 4: Even this is a perfect continuation what we were just

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Speaker 4: talking about.

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Speaker 6: Even in the kind of cult of Trump era of

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Speaker 6: the Republican Party, tariffs are aligned too far for a

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Speaker 6: lot of traditional Republicans and moderate Republicans. So they're stuck

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Speaker 6: with having to as you have pointed out many times, Crystal,

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Speaker 6: rely on Trump kind of waving his magic wand which

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Speaker 6: he definitely enjoys. But that's because it's actually this is

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Speaker 6: why Congress, why the founders delegated the power to Congress,

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Speaker 6: because it's not supported by the representatives of the public.

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Speaker 6: It's just supported by the president. And so it's a

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Speaker 6: huge problem.

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Speaker 2: And the other reason why this is delegated to Congress

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Speaker 2: is the exact reason Trump doesn't want to have to

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Speaker 2: go through Congress, which is he wants people to have

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Speaker 2: to go and petition the king. And so if you

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Speaker 2: have some stable regime that has to be subject to

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Speaker 2: legislative branch scrutiny, then you take all the fun of it.

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Speaker 2: In terms of what he actually wants to achieve or

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Speaker 2: not to mention, you know, all the like, oh, potential

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Speaker 2: development deals that can be thrown his way, or if

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Speaker 2: he wants to do a favor for Elon and make

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Speaker 2: sure they get Starlink or they're partnering with Palenteer or

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Speaker 2: whatever it is that's in his basket, you know, of

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Speaker 2: Goodie's wish list, then that becomes more much more difficult

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Speaker 2: to effectuate. If you're actually going through the legislative branch.

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Speaker 6: And just ran you can respond to this, because I

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Speaker 6: think you might have thought. It's one of the questions

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Speaker 6: people were asking throughout the day is doesn't this destroy

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Speaker 6: your leverage? I mean, doesn't going through the courts destroy

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Speaker 6: your leverage when you're going to other countries. I mean,

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Speaker 6: just yesterday Kevin Hassett was saying, they expect many, many

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Speaker 6: deals to be coming in the next few weeks. But

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Speaker 6: who's going to make a deal with you when they

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Speaker 6: don't even know whether the courts are going to block

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Speaker 6: your tariffs from being imp Absolutely so, right, I feel

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Speaker 6: like what leverage India?

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Speaker 3: I don't. I don't actually think that that's that's significant,

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Speaker 3: that plays that significant of a role, because I think

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Speaker 3: the US has leverage because it's it's an economic superpower.

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Speaker 3: At the same time, countries that were already reluctant to

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Speaker 3: strike deals with US because we just Trump just renegotiated

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Speaker 3: US MCA with Canada and Mexico just a couple of years.

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Speaker 2: Ago, right, and then just already tearing it up and.

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Speaker 3: Completely abrogates it. The United States cuts an around deal,

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Speaker 3: they abrogate it, then they're talking about going back into it.

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Speaker 3: Like so the idea.

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Speaker 2: Ties into Israel and Moss as well, Yeah, make some

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Speaker 2: you know, claims with a mass and then totally turns around,

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Speaker 2: does something different when they talk to Israel.

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Speaker 3: So the courts are like the seventieth wild card thrown

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Speaker 3: into a deal with the United States, which is just

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Speaker 3: becoming like a completely arbitrary and capricious country, and other

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Speaker 3: countries are trying to move move away from it, you know,

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Speaker 3: just real quickly on the Yeah, my take on the founders,

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Speaker 3: it's like they never really even thought of the president

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Speaker 3: as making policy at all, Like that was supposed to

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Speaker 3: come from Congress, and tariffs for the first hundred plus

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Speaker 3: years of the US were a were major policy. It's

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Speaker 3: like where huge portions of our federal revenue came from

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Speaker 3: once we once we kicked in an income tax, and

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Speaker 3: we had a federal reserve, like the economy and the

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Speaker 3: and the treasury were run, you know, with tariffs as

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Speaker 3: a real kind of side show. And so that's why

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Speaker 3: Congress then delegated, you know, the kind of moving of

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Speaker 3: the dial to the executive because the policy was already

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Speaker 3: set in place. What Trump's doing is a brand new policy.

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Speaker 3: It's like, it's like bringing tariffs back to a central

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Speaker 3: place in our economic policy making like they were in

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Speaker 3: the nineteenth century, and that you can't do unless Congress

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Speaker 3: allows you to do it, would be the argument. It's

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Speaker 3: just all power though, So.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's right. I wanted to highlight this just

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Speaker 2: to kind of put it on all of our radar.

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Speaker 2: Arnot Bertrand was highlighting these deals that are being struck

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Speaker 2: outside of the US to your point, Ryan about how

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Speaker 2: we're just like this rogue nation at this point and

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Speaker 2: every other country is just figuring out how to adapt.

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Speaker 2: And he says, this is bizarrely received almost zero coverage

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Speaker 2: in Western media, but it is actually massive deal. China,

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Speaker 2: the countries of Southeast Asia, assion and the Arab States.

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Speaker 2: GCC just held a summit in Kuala Lumpur to forge

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Speaker 2: what could become the world's largest economic block, covering everything

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Speaker 2: from free trade agreements and dedollarrization to Belton Road connectivity. Together,

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Speaker 2: these countries have over two billion people, thirty percent of

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Speaker 2: the world's GDP, and crucially about fifty five percent of

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Speaker 2: world GDP growth in PPP terms. Here's their joint statement.

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Speaker 2: They agree to massively develop free trade bypass the dollar.

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Speaker 2: That's an important one. Belton Road expansion, develop across region

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Speaker 2: digital economy framework including an AI and energy markets coordination.

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Speaker 2: So one more sign that the rest of the world

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Speaker 2: is trying to adapt to you know, the US ye

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Speaker 2: rogue actions.

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Speaker 3: And like I would saying maybe this is a good

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Speaker 3: thing for everybody. It in a world where the US

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Speaker 3: is still the loan superpower and also sees the rapid

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Speaker 3: development of AI, Like we know how that world ends,

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Speaker 3: like with a like just plutocracy of like a few

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Speaker 3: trillionaires controlling everything. That's yeah, that like i'd love to

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Speaker 3: say that DSA and and the remnants of Bernie are

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Speaker 3: going to like put the brakes on that I don't.

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Speaker 3: I don't see it happening. And so it has to

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Speaker 3: be the US like committing suicide and handing over power

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Speaker 3: to these other countries who who at least they might

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Speaker 3: have a better shot at making a slightly more egalitarian

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Speaker 3: world out of this, out of on the other side

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Speaker 3: of this, whatever this AI development is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we need to have Janis fair Faucus back on

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Speaker 2: because he also is tracking both, you know, the de

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Speaker 2: dollarization that ties into this, the deals that are being

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Speaker 2: struck here that Arno is high landing along with the

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Speaker 2: US's embrace of quote unquote stable coins, and so he

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Speaker 2: sees a world in which you have two competing monetary systems.

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Speaker 2: One that is sort of more you know, traditionally im

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Speaker 2: backed by governmental central banks like public you know, currencies

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Speaker 2: that would be emblematic of like the bricks arrangements and

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Speaker 2: what's happening with Asian and China and the Arab nations.

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Speaker 2: And then one that is this private digital currency, you know,

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Speaker 2: and with the quote unquote Genius Act and these stable

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Speaker 2: coins which are not stable. Actually, then the trick the

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Speaker 2: dollar as the alternative.

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Speaker 3: The trick there if people aren't connecting the dots, is

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Speaker 3: it buys you say, another ten or twenty years of

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Speaker 3: being able to kind of float endless amounts of treasuries

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Speaker 3: into into circulation because that the bitcoin people, the crypto people,

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Speaker 3: will have to buy the treasuries as the collateral for

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00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,359
Speaker 3: their stable coin. So it's it's basically a way to

438
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 3: it's it's a it's kind of a pump and dump

439
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:19,840
Speaker 3: for like the entire United States.

440
00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 2: That's cool. Yeah, that sounds like it's going to work

441
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:23,440
Speaker 2: out really great.

442
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:25,600
Speaker 3: It'll be good for ten or twenty years and that

443
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 3: that's that that's longer term thinking than our economic planners

444
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 3: are usually getting into. So let's give them at least

445
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 3: credit for that.

446
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:33,120
Speaker 5: Yeah.

447
00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, Trump and the other gerontocracy people

448
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,320
Speaker 2: will be dead I guess by the time it collapses,

449
00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 2: So what do they care.

450
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 6: Yes, this was a good piece from from you honest

451
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:46,480
Speaker 6: that people should check out that he wrote on this recently.

452
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,159
Speaker 4: We should definitely have it. Just closed it.

453
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,119
Speaker 6: Sorry, it was called Trump wants a big tech to

454
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 6: own the dollar.

455
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 4: It was really perfect.

456
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,200
Speaker 3: Yep, that sounds right.

457
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,680
Speaker 2: One more one more piece on this, again highlighted by

458
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 2: r no So Marco Ruby announce they're going to start

459
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,359
Speaker 2: revoking visas of Chinese students, including those with connections the

460
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:10,199
Speaker 2: Chinese Communist Party or studying in critical fields any place

461
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,359
Speaker 2: as rip American AI industry. According to recent study by

462
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:15,640
Speaker 2: the Paulson Institute, thirty eight percent of the top tier

463
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 2: AI talent work in the US are Chinese, more than

464
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:22,400
Speaker 2: Americans themselves. So again, I guess right, that's for those

465
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,880
Speaker 2: they were very concerned by a development. We should be like, yeah,

466
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:27,200
Speaker 2: I guess good work.

467
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 3: Crazy times.

468
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,879
Speaker 4: This is Trump's real plan. We didn't even see it coming.

469
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 4: This is the five D chess. Be right, I see

470
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 4: it coming. This is all a plan to topple.

471
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 6: The Empire's ability to thrust us into AI, into the

472
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 6: dystopia of AI.

473
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:46,679
Speaker 4: So well done, mister president.

474
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,360
Speaker 2: It is it is wild. It is wild to see

475
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,880
Speaker 2: the very obvious consequences of these actions. In any case,

476
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 2: anything else there, guys, Are you ready to move on

477
00:23:58,160 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 2: to Israel?

478
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:00,880
Speaker 5: Yep?

479
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:06,640
Speaker 2: So, Ryan, you guys have been doing the best reporting

480
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 2: on what is going on with the ceasefire deal negotiations.

481
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 2: So I'll pull up here the framework, the text that

482
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 2: you guys published of the term sheet delivered to Hamas

483
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 2: by Steve Whitcoff, and you can talk us through some

484
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,160
Speaker 2: of the details here and also the larger context Yeah.

485
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 3: So the original deal understanding, as Hamas kind of described it,

486
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 3: that Jeremy reported on last week into early this week,

487
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:43,119
Speaker 3: was that there would be a sixty day ceasefire. The

488
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 3: Israeli forces would withdraw to their March second positions. There

489
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:52,640
Speaker 3: would be five captaves released on day one and then

490
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 3: five hostages released on day sixty And the idea there

491
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 3: was that breaking them in half and spreading them out

492
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 3: forces Israel to abide by the ceasefire for that entire

493
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 3: sixty days, and during that sixty days, the US would

494
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:13,919
Speaker 3: guarantee the stability of the ceasefire and would pressure Israel

495
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:18,640
Speaker 3: to negotiate towards a long term truce that the war

496
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,680
Speaker 3: would not start up again on day sixty one. The

497
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:26,400
Speaker 3: new agreement. Oh, and how that unfolded. Jeremy was able

498
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 3: to get the details of this and publish that there

499
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 3: was an understanding between Hamas and Witkough that the Israel

500
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,920
Speaker 3: immediately comes out and they don't want to do this.

501
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 3: They don't, they say they don't want to do this.

502
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:43,640
Speaker 3: Witkoff then calls Axios Barack Revide and says, I'm really

503
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 3: disappointed in Hamas's reaction to this, and so blaming Hamas,

504
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 3: even though Hamas had had accepted the terms. So then

505
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 3: Wikoff goes back and he's like, okay, what can I

506
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 3: what can I tweak in this to get Israel on board,

507
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 3: which again tells you that Jeremy's reporting was correct because

508
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 3: the deal would not have gotten more favorable to Israel

509
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 3: if the original one was okay with Israel but not

510
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 3: okay with Hamas. So now they have a new deal

511
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 3: which instead of the five, the second half of the captives,

512
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:20,959
Speaker 3: and they're believed to be twenty living captives remaining in Gaza,

513
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 3: so the five, instead of being released on day sixty,

514
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 3: would be released on day seven. And the language around Israel,

515
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 3: kind of withdrawing back to March second, is much vaguer,

516
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 3: and the language about a long term truce is is vague,

517
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:45,920
Speaker 3: giving Israel the ability to restart the war. Net Yahoo

518
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 3: met yesterday with hostage families, and audio of it immediately leaked,

519
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 3: which people in Israel, reporters in Israel were speculating or

520
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,639
Speaker 3: and just guessing like that this was a deliberate Net

521
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 3: and Yahoo leak. So in his conversation with the hostage families,

522
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 3: he was telling them we're going we're going to restart

523
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 3: the war like it's happening, like I'm sorry, like and

524
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 3: we hope we get the rest of the living captives out,

525
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 3: but we'll see and just letting you know, we're going

526
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 3: to break this deal.

527
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

528
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,360
Speaker 3: And the thinking of Amir ta Bona, a r's columnists

529
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 3: who's been on our show. His analysis is that Yahoo

530
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 3: is push is put that out to pressure Hamas to

531
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 3: reject the deal. Like his preference is that Hamas reject

532
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,439
Speaker 3: the deal rather than accept it, and then nen Yaho

533
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,399
Speaker 3: has to break it because even though he's willing to

534
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 3: break it, it comes with a political cost, like the

535
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 3: world has completely lost its patience with nen Yahu and

536
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 3: his genocide. It's like Europe is, you know, it's twenty

537
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 3: percent of its trade. Even Germany is telling Israel that

538
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 3: that this is that this has gone too far. So

539
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 3: on the one hand, you could imagine why Hamas is

540
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:01,880
Speaker 3: still debating this internally. You can imagine why they would

541
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 3: reject this deal because it may be seven days of

542
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,120
Speaker 3: a ceasefire, right and then right back to where they were.

543
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 6: Right.

544
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 3: On the other hand, you can imagine why they would

545
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 3: accept it because if Netton, now, who wants them to

546
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 3: reject it. You could think, okay, whatever net Ya, who

547
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 3: wants us to do like, we should do the opposite,

548
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 3: uh and and and it would further isolate Israel internationally

549
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 3: if they once again broke another ceasefire. And so the question,

550
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 3: you know, for Hamas is is you know, what is

551
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 3: what is a seven day or a sixty day seasefire

552
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 3: worth to them? If they and if they're because there

553
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 3: as they say their their remaining leverage is is there

554
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 3: the twenty hostages that they hold if that's down to

555
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 3: ten and increasingly maybe shrinking, as as Israel's relentless bombing campaign,

556
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 3: you know, puts the puts their lives at risk on

557
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 3: a on a minute by minute basis. So there was

558
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 3: a lot of hope in Gaza. You saw people, you know,

559
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 3: almost like pre celebrating the possibility. This was just such

560
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 3: a just a poignant and painful thing to see because

561
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 3: the the expressions of joy our reflection of the depth

562
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 3: of the pain.

563
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:21,239
Speaker 5: Right.

564
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 3: But there's what we don't know yet how this will go.

565
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 3: And it's to me it's pretty hard to hard to predict.

566
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 2: Ryan, what do you make of like what can we

567
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 2: read into wit Coough and the Trump administration's role here

568
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 2: and their preferences, because I mean, you know, as we

569
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 2: sort through all these details, which are really important, at

570
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 2: the end of the day, the you know, probably the

571
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 2: critical factor is what the Trump administration is willing to

572
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 2: do to compel BB two end the war.

573
00:29:58,000 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it doesn't seem like they're willing to do

574
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 3: much because if they had just if they had just

575
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 3: kept the arrangement something similar to all right, five on

576
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 3: day one and five on day sixty and net Yahoo

577
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 3: is publicly saying, screw you, I'm going to restart the

578
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 3: war as soon as I can. At least at least

579
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 3: you're then forcing ams to ask the question of is

580
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 3: a sixty day cease fire and a flood of aid

581
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 3: worth it to this population that is being pushed into

582
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 3: total anarchy like at this point, whereas when you say,

583
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 3: is seven days worth it, it's like, well, you know,

584
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 3: they might not even let much. They'll barely let any

585
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 3: aid in for seven days and then start bombing again.

586
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 3: So Okay, they agreed to sixty but like they're being

587
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 3: very public in their in their you know, confidence that

588
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 3: they don't have to abide by it. So yeah, without

589
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 3: you know, without without witcough pushing it for slightly longer.

590
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 3: It does suggest that they're not willing to do that much.

591
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 6: It's interesting that from let's just say, from Netanyahu's perspective,

592
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 6: he probably feels like he is on the presspoe of

593
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 6: a generational opportunity for like Mara Gaza.

594
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 3: Totally.

595
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 4: But then also the flip side of that is a.

596
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 6: The alternative is the reconstitution of Hamas with any type

597
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 6: of again, from his perspective, any type of ceasefire. So

598
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 6: he thinks that he's on He's walking this like very

599
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 6: very fine line between getting exactly the like fantasy scenario

600
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 6: from the Israeli far rights perspective, or losing it and

601
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 6: having Trump and the United States go into a future

602
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 6: that is much more skeptical of Israel and has a

603
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 6: much more skeptical alliance with this.

604
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 4: And I guess it's sort of.

605
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 6: Like they they feel like they're on a tight rope

606
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 6: and I don't know, I mean, I don't think they

607
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 6: realized that the more skepticism of the alliance future is

608
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 6: kind of already here.

609
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot to that,

610
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 2: and I think this ties into it as well. They're

611
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 2: you know, rapidly moving to enable the additional expansion, major

612
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 2: expansion of settlements in the occupied West Bank. You know,

613
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 2: they're worried that there will be international, real international pressure

614
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 2: for some sort of a you know, Palestinian state to

615
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 2: be recognized in some sort of a two state solution

616
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 2: to be forced upon them. And so and look like

617
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 2: BB grew up in the United States, I mean, these

618
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 2: are people deeply understand American politics. They probably understand it

619
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 2: better than almost anyone, to be honest with you, and

620
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 2: where the pressure points are and how to get their

621
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 2: way and when the clock's ticking and when it's not.

622
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 2: And so look, they can rit a poll as well

623
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 2: as anyone else. And see the way that first of all,

624
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 2: the privilege that they enjoyed of having lockstep unified bipartisan support,

625
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 2: it is going to come to an end, Like you

626
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 2: cannot sustain a situation where the base of one party,

627
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 2: the Democratic Party, is so dramatically at odds with the

628
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 2: elected leadership of that party. And that's going to come

629
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 2: to it. I think is going to come to a

630
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 2: head quickly in twenty twenty eight. I think this will

631
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 2: be a litmus test and that you will not get

632
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 2: through a Democratic primary without having a very different position

633
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 2: on Israel than you know, Joe Biden and every other

634
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 2: Democratic president has had in modern American history. So they

635
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 2: know that that bipartisan consensus is going away. And even

636
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 2: within the Republican Party, you know, older Republicans still have

637
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 2: very positive views of Israel. Younger Republicans do not. So,

638
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 2: you know, Ryan, how much of the actions that are

639
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 2: being taken now, you know, the attempt to actually consolidate

640
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 2: some sort of like wild Greater Israel project, the dramatic

641
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 2: expansion and the dramatic escalation and oppression and violence in

642
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 2: the West Bank, obviously, the attempt to do the final

643
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 2: solution in Gaza. How much of this is a realization

644
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,479
Speaker 2: of like, this is our moment, and if we don't

645
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 2: go for everything right now, the landscape is going to

646
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:21,760
Speaker 2: be different for us in the future.

647
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 3: Yeah. And I think there's almost a break from reality

648
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 3: among the political class and a lot of the population

649
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 3: in that there's a real impulse now of Israeli saying

650
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 3: we don't need the world. The world has abandoned us,

651
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 3: And it's a break with reality in the sense that

652
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 3: for twenty months, the entire world Western world has financed

653
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 3: and armed their war against this small militia in Gaza

654
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 3: endlessly like an unlimited capacity in a way that no

655
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 3: other small country has gotten. Yet they feel like the

656
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,359
Speaker 3: world has abandoned them, that the world has turned against them,

657
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 3: and so their response to that is, we don't need

658
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 3: the world. We have a we have this startup nation.

659
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,839
Speaker 3: We've got all these this high tech firms. We make

660
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 3: a lot of they do make like a non trivial

661
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 3: amount of their own weapons, like they have their own,

662
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 3: you know, weapons manufacturing capacity. So they're like, we don't

663
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 3: need the we don't need the world. We're going to

664
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 3: go it alone. There are some who are like, we're

665
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,879
Speaker 3: just a couple of million people here and we don't

666
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 3: ever we don't want to like never leave. And also

667
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 3: like a dependent on international trade. We're dependent on all

668
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,479
Speaker 3: the favorable terms that we get from the from the US.

669
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 3: We don't have just the demography to keep up endless

670
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 3: wars on the north and the northeast and the and

671
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 3: the south. Like, yeah, there were numbers coming out something

672
00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:00,359
Speaker 3: like seventeen thousand wounded, and then they're talking about tens

673
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 3: of thousands more with debilitating PTSD. They're recruiting people suffering

674
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 3: from PTSD back into Gaza, like back into service.

675
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 2: Well, and they have major long term demographic issues because.

676
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 3: The Palestinians made up a lot of their labor force.

677
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 2: That's true too, Yeah, people.

678
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 3: And you know things like the economy is struggling and

679
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 3: so people, you know, people can't who can leave or leave,

680
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 3: Like a lot of them have American passports, European passports

681
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 3: and so can can leave.

682
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 2: And the ultra Orthodox don't want to work, serve in

683
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 2: the military.

684
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 3: They don't want to work either.

685
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 2: They have a lot of kids, but they don't want

686
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 2: to do anything.

687
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's going to be just them and the

688
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 3: Palestinians that stay behind. It's like or who who survive.

689
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 3: It's so the idea of where they're going to take

690
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 3: this to this like Greater Israel accomplished through endless war

691
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 3: and the reality of their demography and their economic base

692
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:06,919
Speaker 3: are very far apart right now, and I think kept

693
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 3: alive by war.

694
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 6: Fever, when think of how that's influencing the donor class

695
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 6: that influences the Trump administration, actually politicians on both sides

696
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 6: of the aisle. But since they have the keys of

697
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 6: the car right now, the Trump administration that I don't

698
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 6: want to say paranoia, because I'm not that would imply

699
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 6: that it's irrational or unfounded, but that almost desperation you

700
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 6: can sort of sense it, I think, being pushed to

701
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 6: the politicians as they're hearing from people who they've taken

702
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 6: a lot of money from and have seen as great

703
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,279
Speaker 6: allies for a long time. It's sort of been like

704
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 6: the Republicans, its just sort of been natural and a

705
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 6: very unquestioned alliance and like a marriage. Really.

706
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, And meanwhile, they Notna government announced twenty two new

707
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 3: settlements in the West Bank yesterday, which the government explicitly

708
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 3: said the purpose of which was to prevent and make

709
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 3: impossible the formation of a Palestinian state in the in

710
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 3: the West Bank. Like they're just saying this out loud. Yeah,

711
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 3: you know, so the one the path they're choosing that

712
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 3: they want to they they are desperately hoping to go down,

713
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 3: is this and this one of endless war when you know,

714
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 3: the world really, despite their paranoia, does not have any

715
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 3: sympathy for Palestinians. And if Israel today said we accept

716
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 3: this term and we accept Hamas's long term truce in Gaza,

717
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 3: and we accept a technocratic government to run Gaza with

718
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 3: the support of the you know, Gulf countries, and then

719
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 3: let Ireland and Spain and some others like recognize that

720
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 3: little rump as as a Palestinian state and they just

721
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 3: stopped bombing and starving the Palestinians. The world would be like,

722
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 3: that's fine, Like, well, we're good, that's that's good enough.

723
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 3: When it from a perspective of global justice, it would

724
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 3: not remotely be good enough, but the world would be

725
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 3: fine with that. The world would just like Israel to stop,

726
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 3: you know, humiliating the West when it comes to its

727
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 3: hypocritic values but doesn't really have much concern for the

728
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 3: actual Palestinian people.

729
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's very apparent. But and to Emily's

730
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 2: point about the you know, increasing desperation here in the

731
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 2: US include in particular, we have this new announcement for

732
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 2: Marco Rubio saying the US is implement vigorous new vies

733
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 2: of policy to prevent foreign nationals with anti Israel views

734
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 2: from traveling in the US. This is the job that

735
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:35,879
Speaker 2: Laura Lumer is auditioning for. And at the same time,

736
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 2: you know, even given the cost of pro Palestinian protests

737
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 2: at this point, you had a large You've continued to

738
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 2: have large protests at graduation ceremonies, in particular, this was

739
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 2: you had one at Hunter College. I can pull this

740
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:53,799
Speaker 2: up drop site again shared this rely on you guys

741
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 2: so much. Students protesting the administration.

742
00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 3: You know, if you listen to this tale Jane is

743
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 3: great Talia Otg, people should follow that one.

744
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 2: She's yes, absolutely absolutely, and yeah, so they you know,

745
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 2: this was a quite significant protest if you watch this

746
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:12,839
Speaker 2: video and the you know the percentage of students who

747
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:17,320
Speaker 2: were involved here, so even knowing the incredible consequences that

748
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 2: student have faced.

749
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, the MIT speaker like when you've lost Mi T

750
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 3: and Israel has to be watching this and and and shuddering.

751
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 3: These are the these are the future elites of this country,

752
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 3: that's right, who believe that this is there.

753
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,359
Speaker 2: That's why, I mean, that's part of why there's such

754
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 2: a panicked authoritarian reaction is because it they can. They

755
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:45,840
Speaker 2: don't see it as just you know, oh, these like

756
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 2: college kids and they don't really mean it doesn't really matter,

757
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 2: and this is so impotent. And you know, sometimes it

758
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 2: does feel impotent because it's not like it has changed

759
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 2: the policy. But it is again an indication that the

760
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,320
Speaker 2: writing is on the wall and that even in spite

761
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 2: of your incredibly authoritarian, anti free speech, illegal unconstitutional crackdown,

762
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,880
Speaker 2: that they're still willing to protest and speak out and

763
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 2: you know, stand for what they see and what I see.

764
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:12,800
Speaker 3: And it's the most vil it's the most I r

765
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:16,760
Speaker 3: L version of the beatings will continue until morale improves

766
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:21,240
Speaker 3: that I've really ever seen. And the more the beatings

767
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 3: have continued, the worst morale has gotten. That they're willing

768
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:31,720
Speaker 3: to continue to do push these protests in the face

769
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:37,239
Speaker 3: of indefinite detention of protesters people, you know, the n

770
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 3: YU guy losing his diploma. We have a little petition

771
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,759
Speaker 3: going at drop site for the n YU speaker who

772
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 3: they are withholding his.

773
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 2: Diploma degree, something very basic thirty seconds.

774
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 3: Of like don't don't do terrible things to.

775
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 2: Civilians, how dare you outrageous?

776
00:41:57,480 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 3: And in the face of that, to see all of

777
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 3: these kids still doing that, Yeah, it's like the beatings

778
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 3: are going to have to really increase.

779
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:07,719
Speaker 2: Well, I also meant a lot to hear from Abu

780
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:11,280
Speaker 2: Baker that you know, he and other Palestinians and Gaza

781
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 2: have been tracking those protests and found it very hardening

782
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 2: as well. Let's go ahead and talk a little bit. Oh,

783
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 2: we've got actually, we've got Dan here, So we go

784
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:22,880
Speaker 2: ahead and talk to Dan about the polling. Then we

785
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 2: can we can push zoron off until until after we

786
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 2: talked to Dan.

787
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's do that.

788
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 5: Okay, welcome, Hey, thanks for having.

789
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 2: Me, Thanks for doing it, appreciate it.

790
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 5: Ryan.

791
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 2: You want to set this up?

792
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's do this. Do I do I let me

793
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:46,319
Speaker 3: find this, let me find this Axios poll. So yeah, Dan,

794
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 3: Well I'm looking for this pole. So you you were

795
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 3: the polster basically who ran this, this viral pole that

796
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 3: was published first in in Axios that has caused all

797
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 3: sorts of uh discourse back and forth about polling, about abundance,

798
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 3: about populism. So just frame up for people kind of

799
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:12,319
Speaker 3: what the question was that you wanted to get from

800
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:14,840
Speaker 3: from voters, Like what were you trying? What were you

801
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 3: trying to figure out? And then I'll pull up some

802
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 3: of the discourse.

803
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 5: Yeah. So when I was approached by Demand Progress about this,

804
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 5: the the idea was.

805
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 3: To andre there are kind of populists like left right,

806
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 3: like more on the left, but like they work in

807
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 3: coalition with the right a lot.

808
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 5: Yep. So the idea was to just test kind of

809
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 5: the resonance of all of this, you know, the arguments

810
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 5: around abundance relative to what we look at as more

811
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 5: traditional populist ideas and look at, you know, in terms

812
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 5: of people's understanding of why there are economic struggles that

813
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 5: you know that working class and middle class people are

814
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 5: dealing with. You know, what do people think is the

815
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,840
Speaker 5: cause of that? Is the cause more within the abundance

816
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 5: framework or the populist framework, What do people want to

817
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 5: hear candidates for office or president for Congress talk about,

818
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 5: you know, the same kind of split, and what do

819
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:16,439
Speaker 5: people think is the best way to solve those things

820
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:18,919
Speaker 5: and address the concerns of middle and working class people.

821
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 6: And we.

822
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:25,400
Speaker 5: Put it together to just make sense of it. The

823
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 5: purpose was not to go public to try to prove anything.

824
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:33,279
Speaker 5: I was skeptical from the beginning because it's not you know,

825
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 5: they're not usually exclusive concepts, and I you know, it's

826
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 5: much easy.

827
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 3: The ultimate goal of populism would be to have abundance

828
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 3: for all, right, absolutely, so I.

829
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 5: Was skeptical going in. But the idea we just wanted

830
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 5: to get a benchmark since people were arguing about it

831
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:52,880
Speaker 5: and there didn't seem to be some good data, just

832
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 5: kind of placing where things fall. The interesting thing that

833
00:44:56,480 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 5: happened when we got the results back was over helmingly,

834
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:07,359
Speaker 5: like across the board, the traditional populist ideas resonate far

835
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 5: more people's sensibilities about the cause of their economic anxiety

836
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 5: and challenges for working class people completely fall into a

837
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 5: thing where a lot of us, you know, have been

838
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 5: talking about a lot. Now, that doesn't mean to the

839
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 5: exclusion of some of the abundance ideas, and I think

840
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:26,320
Speaker 5: it's it's important that there are places where people do

841
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 5: understand that there can be regulation that has unintended consequences

842
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:36,959
Speaker 5: to hinder, you know, to artificially shift the supply curve

843
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 5: and cause problems there. So again they're not exclusive. But

844
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 5: if we're thinking about how to realign where democrats credibly

845
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 5: talk to the electorate to win elections and implement stuff,

846
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 5: there is no question that that populace framing is the

847
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 5: stronger way to go about it, and that can access

848
00:45:58,800 --> 00:45:59,360
Speaker 5: of abundance.

849
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 3: Ye give us the top lines on that and then

850
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 3: we'll get into some of the criticisms of it.

851
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:10,239
Speaker 5: Yeah, So the most straightforward thing that we did was

852
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 5: we tested. We laid out the whole framing of what

853
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 5: the abundance argument is, you know, based on you know,

854
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:19,400
Speaker 5: the book and the literature, what people are saying. We

855
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,239
Speaker 5: tried to be you know, really good faith capture what

856
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 5: it is that they're talking about, and we asked the question.

857
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:30,800
Speaker 2: I pulled it up here at least the first sentence

858
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 2: of the abundance framing versus the populace framing.

859
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, great. So overall, we asked if a candidate for

860
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 5: Congress or president made that abundance argument, would that make

861
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:43,760
Speaker 5: you more or less likely to vote for them? Overall?

862
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 5: Twelve point six percent said much more likely, thirty point

863
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:51,840
Speaker 5: nine said somewhat more likely. So it's a total of

864
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:55,800
Speaker 5: forty three point one percent said more likely, almost thirty

865
00:46:55,840 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 5: percent said less likely overall, so that's you know, not

866
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 5: super strong. The populist argument, which focused on you know,

867
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:10,400
Speaker 5: corporate power primarily. The much more likely to vote for

868
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 5: a candidate using that rhetoric was twenty six point three percent,

869
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 5: the somewhat more likely twenty nine point three percent, So

870
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 5: a total of fifty five point six percent more likely

871
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:24,320
Speaker 5: and only twenty four point two percent. Now that again,

872
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 5: like that was primarily among Democrats, but independence very much

873
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 5: to the extent that there was an appetite for a

874
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 5: lot of the abundance arguments there it felt not exclusively,

875
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:43,440
Speaker 5: but disproportionately toward the Republican side, and independents acted more

876
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 5: like democrats in these frameworks. Interesting, and then one of

877
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:51,279
Speaker 5: the important things, right, so then we just asked the question, well,

878
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:54,360
Speaker 5: now that you heard both these perspectives, which one do

879
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:58,399
Speaker 5: you agree with most, even if neither is exactly right.

880
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:02,600
Speaker 5: The abundance got twenty nine point two percent, the populace

881
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:05,919
Speaker 5: got forty two point eight percent. I'm sure got twenty

882
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:08,800
Speaker 5: eight percent. And that goes back to one of the

883
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 5: amusing things about how all of this went viral and

884
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 5: there was all this debate on social media for the

885
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 5: past couple of days where it's like, this is not

886
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 5: the end of the story or the end up into

887
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:26,320
Speaker 5: these issues. This is one poll and they're you know,

888
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:27,759
Speaker 5: and a lot of the stuff that came up, a

889
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 5: lot of the critiques people are like, well did you

890
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 5: try polling this language?

891
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:34,840
Speaker 8: Like oh, like, we will in the future will continue

892
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:36,400
Speaker 8: to look at this, and other people will in the

893
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 8: future as well, but the striking thing is how people

894
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:45,799
Speaker 8: you know, are are telling us in this.

895
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 5: They think the cause of their economic anxiety is corporations

896
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 5: having too much power. They're being too much corruption on

897
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 5: the levels of government. And then even when we ask

898
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 5: like later, and this is stuff that hasn't gotten like

899
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:03,440
Speaker 5: public yet, we asked, to the extent that there's excessive regulation,

900
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 5: is that the fault of big corporations using their influence

901
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:08,880
Speaker 5: for their own profit or is that the fault of

902
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:13,400
Speaker 5: actualist groups? Overwhelmingly more people said it's the fault to

903
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:14,439
Speaker 5: the big corporations.

904
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 2: Even interesting into the apportioning the blame for these bottlenecks,

905
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 2: they're like, corporate power.

906
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, right, absolutely, And so that's why we ended up

907
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:29,719
Speaker 5: going public with this stuff because they're like, actually, these

908
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 5: results are really striking. Of course, it's not going to

909
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:35,319
Speaker 5: be the final word on any subject, but it's it's

910
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 5: a pretty important thing to get out there.

911
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 2: Ryan, Can you put back up, Yeah, put back up

912
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 2: the Eric levittz tweet here, and let's just get you

913
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:43,360
Speaker 2: to respond to.

914
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 3: This critique thread here.

915
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:48,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, to this critique. He says, this poll is shamelessly hackish. Yes,

916
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:53,840
Speaker 2: and populus rhetoric is definitely more resonant the technocratic critiques

917
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:56,800
Speaker 2: of zoning ANIPA three. The political case for monents is

918
00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 2: that voters will punish you if shit gets expensive, not

919
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 2: that fight bottle next is a popular message. And this

920
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:06,000
Speaker 2: is I think consistent with a number of the critiques

921
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:08,480
Speaker 2: that I saw. You you sort of reference, so there

922
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 2: were critiques about the language could have been different, or

923
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 2: you know. Another one we saw is basically like, well,

924
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 2: this wasn't really meant to be and Eric is kind

925
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 2: of getting at this like abundance messaging isn't meant to

926
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:23,800
Speaker 2: be the most politically potent messaging. It's about delivering for people.

927
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 2: What did you make of some of the points that

928
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:28,480
Speaker 2: are raised here, though, Well, my favorite is.

929
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:31,880
Speaker 5: His first point that the poll is, uh, was it

930
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 5: shames hackish? Yeah? Absolutely, And every single person part of

931
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:42,719
Speaker 5: this debate on any side is absolutely hackish. This is

932
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 5: not being discussed in corporate breakrooms, you know, this is

933
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:52,399
Speaker 5: completely in the realm of hacks. His second point like, okay,

934
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 5: so then we're in agreement. The populist framings are far

935
00:50:56,200 --> 00:51:01,839
Speaker 5: more resonant than it is rather technical. It's framings, right,

936
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:05,400
Speaker 5: So like no disagreement there that's what we're saying.

937
00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 2: Right, So then I mean that to me raises the

938
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:12,279
Speaker 2: question then is the goal to run as a populist

939
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:15,279
Speaker 2: challenging corporate power, but then to a bate and switch

940
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:18,440
Speaker 2: where the actual program is like zoning reform, because it

941
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:21,359
Speaker 2: seems like a recipe for also political disaster of people

942
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:24,240
Speaker 2: being like you ran on something and you didn't deliver

943
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:26,760
Speaker 2: on what you promised and the way you positioned yourself.

944
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:29,800
Speaker 5: When when this poll came out, I had numerous friends

945
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:32,239
Speaker 5: text me and go, So the solution is to run

946
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:34,040
Speaker 5: on populism and then do abundance.

947
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:34,680
Speaker 4: And it's just like.

948
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 5: I think the reality is. And this is an important

949
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 5: thing when we talk about what the message should be.

950
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 5: There's been all this discussion there was during the previous

951
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:47,800
Speaker 5: presidential race and going to midterms, what should the Democrats

952
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:51,600
Speaker 5: message be? Message requires that you have credibility, and if

953
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:53,759
Speaker 5: people don't believe that you're actually going to stand up

954
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 5: to corporations and fight corporate power do all that, then

955
00:51:57,160 --> 00:51:59,320
Speaker 5: it doesn't matter if you're you know, it might be

956
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 5: marginally better to say you are, but it doesn't ultimately help.

957
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:05,840
Speaker 5: You have to be doing it, And I don't know

958
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:09,840
Speaker 5: anyone who doesn't believe there are some regulatory changes that

959
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 5: would help in certain industries at certain places to reduce

960
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 5: the price of things and to create more goods, like

961
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 5: which is in the abundance wheelhouse. Like I don't know

962
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:23,120
Speaker 5: anyone who disagrees that there's not places to do that.

963
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:27,080
Speaker 5: But that has nothing to do with where are you

964
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:32,760
Speaker 5: insisting taxes come from, you know, relative to the working

965
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:35,840
Speaker 5: class to you know, the very rich, Like how are

966
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:38,399
Speaker 5: you dealing with those other policy things? So I think

967
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:42,879
Speaker 5: the solution is build the confidence of the voters by

968
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 5: running on populist ideas doing concrete populist things. And also

969
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:54,160
Speaker 5: when you find that someone who's in the abundance camp goes, hey,

970
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 5: here's a regulation that's actually like not doing what it

971
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:00,000
Speaker 5: intended to and is like mucking up some economic system.

972
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:02,399
Speaker 5: So of course, then take care of that. Yeah.

973
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, Here I'm sharing this post from Chris Murphy, Senator

974
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 6: Chris Murphy, who has dabbled in trying to, I guess,

975
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:14,080
Speaker 6: make the Democratic Party's message respond to the populist moment.

976
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:17,040
Speaker 6: He says it's a weird exposition because why not craft

977
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:20,000
Speaker 6: a message where we aggressively reduce concentrated corporate power and

978
00:53:20,239 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 6: we fix bottlenecks and build more stuff. And Dan, this

979
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 6: brings us to, I think an interesting question as to

980
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:31,400
Speaker 6: whether sort of mainstream establishment Democrats and I think everyone

981
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 6: has to include Chris Murphy in that group, are capable

982
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 6: of adopting the messaging of populism. And you know, we

983
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:41,760
Speaker 6: could talk about in substance, as you just said, marrying

984
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:47,400
Speaker 6: it with genuine populism and abundance downstream after being elected

985
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:50,480
Speaker 6: because voters say, we trust you and that message is.

986
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:54,479
Speaker 4: Appealing to us. But can they actually pull it off?

987
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:58,880
Speaker 6: Given the way Democrats tend to approach these questions, do

988
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:00,800
Speaker 6: you have a take on that, like, what would this

989
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:04,760
Speaker 6: look like in practice for a mainstream establishment democratic politician

990
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:08,000
Speaker 6: who's not Bernie Sanders to Kamala Harris tried to do

991
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:13,360
Speaker 6: this a little bit, to actually embrace that type of messaging.

992
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 4: It seems pretty hard.

993
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 6: Yeah.

994
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:20,279
Speaker 5: I mean, look, ultimately, when elections are happening, they are

995
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 5: run by candidates and not parties, So it's really case

996
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:28,000
Speaker 5: by case who would have credibility kind of carrying that

997
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:31,239
Speaker 5: populist water. And I think that people who have been

998
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 5: viewed as part of the larger Democratic establishment to date

999
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:36,240
Speaker 5: are going to have a hard time doing that because

1000
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:39,400
Speaker 5: the voters clearly and we you know, tested some of

1001
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:40,800
Speaker 5: that in the beginning of this just to get some

1002
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:44,480
Speaker 5: benchmarks that people don't have great confidence in either party

1003
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:47,160
Speaker 5: to really carry that water, you know. I think if

1004
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 5: there's an immediate lesson, it's you need new faces talking

1005
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:59,240
Speaker 5: about you know, some really traditional classic ideas, but highlight

1006
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:03,319
Speaker 5: the success us where that's that's working. And I mean

1007
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:06,040
Speaker 5: that would be my advice, like generally, like if you're

1008
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:09,800
Speaker 5: starting from a point where voters have so little confidence

1009
00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:11,919
Speaker 5: in you, but you feel like you've got a winning

1010
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,480
Speaker 5: message and a winning agenda, you have to first of

1011
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:17,880
Speaker 5: all mean it. And I'm sure everyone could debate for

1012
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:21,440
Speaker 5: hours whether most of the top level Democrats really give

1013
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:22,680
Speaker 5: a shit about this stuff or.

1014
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:26,080
Speaker 4: The senator from Connecticut Yeah, yeah, But.

1015
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:29,040
Speaker 5: It's like, if you really want to build a populist

1016
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:34,640
Speaker 5: based Democratic party, then you need to uplift leaders who

1017
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:38,320
Speaker 5: are credibly carrying that water to some degree already and

1018
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:41,000
Speaker 5: keep kind of amplifying that. Yeah.

1019
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:43,759
Speaker 2: I think that's it's such an important point. Is why

1020
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:48,200
Speaker 2: the Bernie aoc Oligarchy tour has been so effective is

1021
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:50,440
Speaker 2: not only because the message resonates, you know, when it's

1022
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:53,400
Speaker 2: consistent with the populist messaging that you're testing here. But

1023
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:56,719
Speaker 2: they're both people that have, you know, some credibility in

1024
00:55:56,719 --> 00:55:59,680
Speaker 2: the space, Bernie Sanders in particular, and so you know,

1025
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:03,759
Speaker 2: I think people sometimes miss that is an important part.

1026
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:06,920
Speaker 2: You can't just you can't just we appreciate posters, appreciate

1027
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:09,279
Speaker 2: the work that you do, but there has to be

1028
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:12,520
Speaker 2: some credibility to back it up. The thing that, you know,

1029
00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:16,400
Speaker 2: was the funniest dodge to me was the claim by

1030
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:19,640
Speaker 2: some that abundance in like I said, Eric Levitz and

1031
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:22,240
Speaker 2: his critique, they're kind of gestures at it, that abundance

1032
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:25,280
Speaker 2: isn't really meant to be a political platform.

1033
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:27,880
Speaker 3: Because that's while you're speaking. I'll put up a couple.

1034
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:32,359
Speaker 2: Examples of this. Yeah, because the I mean, I had

1035
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:35,319
Speaker 2: Derek on breaking points. I got to engage with him

1036
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:37,239
Speaker 2: on a bunch of these points. You know, I explicitly

1037
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:39,279
Speaker 2: asked him the question, Okay, well, is this is how

1038
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:41,640
Speaker 2: a policy reforms because that's one thing, or is this

1039
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:45,279
Speaker 2: like a central message and political platform and movement. I've

1040
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:47,080
Speaker 2: read the book, by the way, you know, I read

1041
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:49,440
Speaker 2: the whole book. I've engaged with the critiques, I've engaged

1042
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:51,759
Speaker 2: with the defenses, all of those sorts of things, and

1043
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:55,880
Speaker 2: they're consistent in saying, no, this is yes, it's some

1044
00:56:56,120 --> 00:57:00,400
Speaker 2: specific policy ideas, but this is really about how we

1045
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:03,920
Speaker 2: think the National Democratic Party should be oriented. And this is,

1046
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:05,880
Speaker 2: you know, in evidence by the fact that as re

1047
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:09,480
Speaker 2: client is like meeting with the Senate Democratic Caucus. If

1048
00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:12,280
Speaker 2: you were most interested in like the you know, local

1049
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:14,880
Speaker 2: level zoning reform, you wouldn't be going to the national

1050
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 2: Political Party. You'd be going, like, you know, to the

1051
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:20,400
Speaker 2: San Francisco board or mayor or you know, other localities

1052
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:23,240
Speaker 2: where you think that this program really needs to be effectuated.

1053
00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 2: So that was to me, you know, an interesting almost

1054
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:31,440
Speaker 2: admission that they recognize that well actually as a messaging

1055
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:35,400
Speaker 2: device to organize a political project around there are some

1056
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:36,200
Speaker 2: weaknesses here.

1057
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:41,680
Speaker 5: I think that people were arguing that point from different sides,

1058
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 5: at least in the little firestorm online. Yeah, because there

1059
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:46,320
Speaker 5: was a lot of focus on, oh, if you had

1060
00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:50,880
Speaker 5: used this slightly different language, maybe it would have pulled better,

1061
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:55,560
Speaker 5: which was also an amusing criticism because we use the

1062
00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 5: exact language that the leading proponents of abundance have been

1063
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 5: putting out there. So if the argument is that that

1064
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:05,040
Speaker 5: language actually sucks, like maybe you should talk.

1065
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:09,120
Speaker 2: About where can you can you just elaborate on that, Dan,

1066
00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:10,440
Speaker 2: Where did the language come from?

1067
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:12,960
Speaker 5: So a lot of the frameworks in the book, like,

1068
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:18,440
Speaker 5: for instance, the concern about using bottlenecks and the suggestion

1069
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 5: of using red tape, like a couple things on that

1070
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:25,320
Speaker 5: first off, like sure in future polling, like we'll test

1071
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:27,600
Speaker 5: red tape, like cutting red tape, Like I have no

1072
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:33,360
Speaker 5: problem with that. The language itself came from largely the book,

1073
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:37,040
Speaker 5: which mentions bottlenecks at least a dozen times, and to

1074
00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:41,480
Speaker 5: my understanding, does not mention cutting red tape once, and

1075
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:44,280
Speaker 5: we do talk about, you know, reducing regulations. But the

1076
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 5: other point is like in understanding polling, like we're not

1077
00:58:48,680 --> 00:58:55,240
Speaker 5: testing words, we're testing a political program that uses those words.

1078
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:59,440
Speaker 5: So if someone reads a full paragraph explaining a policy,

1079
00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:03,160
Speaker 5: set up policy ideas and one word is different from

1080
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:06,280
Speaker 5: what you think the ideal word, that's not going to

1081
00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:10,600
Speaker 5: substantially change the results because people understand what the concept is.

1082
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:13,280
Speaker 5: So a lot of the focus on that, like one

1083
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:17,160
Speaker 5: word in one term, like sure, we can test things differently,

1084
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:20,840
Speaker 5: But that's really not gonna be like, you know, the

1085
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:25,200
Speaker 5: magic bullet that suddenly makes abundance the thing everyone's clamoring for, because.

1086
00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:27,960
Speaker 2: Especially when it wasn't close, you know, if this was

1087
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:31,720
Speaker 2: like a fifty two forty eight kind of a proposition, maybe,

1088
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:34,880
Speaker 2: but it was pretty clear, especially when you're talking about

1089
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 2: a democratic base, which is this is an intrademocratic party

1090
00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 2: fight at this point.

1091
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:42,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, but what's so important and I don't

1092
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:46,120
Speaker 5: think this is like a new addition to the discussion

1093
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:49,680
Speaker 5: about how the Democratic Party should rebuild itself. It's an

1094
00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:55,960
Speaker 5: intrademocratic fight right now that requires for ultimate success. That's

1095
00:59:56,080 --> 01:00:01,040
Speaker 5: that's credibly resonant with independence along the way right, And

1096
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:04,400
Speaker 5: that's the thing that really stands out, Like the fact

1097
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:06,720
Speaker 5: that the Democrats are falling on like what is like

1098
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:10,600
Speaker 5: a more traditional yet populist liberal. I think that's not surprising,

1099
01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:14,680
Speaker 5: but the number among independents are just really clearly falling

1100
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:16,040
Speaker 5: along the populist line as well.

1101
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:20,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great point. That's a great point. Got

1102
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:23,560
Speaker 2: any other questions, guys, you want to throw it Dan, My.

1103
01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:27,040
Speaker 3: Last one would be, would you commit to if Jonathan

1104
01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:31,439
Speaker 3: Chait or somebody comes to you with a better question, can.

1105
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:32,800
Speaker 5: You Yeah, I mean, if you put it out in

1106
01:00:32,840 --> 01:00:36,320
Speaker 5: a poll, I would be more than happy to. I mean,

1107
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:40,080
Speaker 5: I just can't emphasize enough, like my skepticism about this

1108
01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:42,840
Speaker 5: initial project from the get go. You know, some people

1109
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:46,520
Speaker 5: were like mocking, like, oh, this is obviously not disinterested.

1110
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:49,600
Speaker 5: I was both disinterested and uninterested. I didn't even want

1111
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:55,000
Speaker 5: to do this whole the perfect combo. So, like, for sure,

1112
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:58,040
Speaker 5: if there's any any subsequent uh, you know, research we

1113
01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:00,640
Speaker 5: do on this, like a lot of stuff people have

1114
01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:06,480
Speaker 5: brought up, you know, as as suggestions and criticism, like yeah, well, also.

1115
01:01:06,800 --> 01:01:09,360
Speaker 3: Can you also pull how many people know the actual

1116
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:15,400
Speaker 3: difference between disinterested and uninterested? Just throw that question in

1117
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:17,280
Speaker 3: I would.

1118
01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:19,640
Speaker 5: I think people will get confused answering.

1119
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:22,600
Speaker 3: That though, And for everybody watching, let's do a public

1120
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:25,800
Speaker 3: service here. Disinterests, I mean you're you're like unbiased, You like,

1121
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:29,200
Speaker 3: you don't have an interest. And by interest, it doesn't

1122
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 3: mean you're not excited about the thing, means you don't

1123
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:35,480
Speaker 3: have a financial or personal vested interest in the thing.

1124
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:41,760
Speaker 3: You are disinterested outside as an observers uninterested, which means

1125
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:44,600
Speaker 3: you're bored by it. So just everybody get that.

1126
01:01:44,920 --> 01:01:46,880
Speaker 2: We're going to do a special show Jess for Ryan

1127
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:49,280
Speaker 2: where he just spends an hour defining relevant terms.

1128
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:53,320
Speaker 3: Yes, I'll do it. If you do that pole question

1129
01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:55,800
Speaker 3: and we'll record on.

1130
01:01:56,080 --> 01:01:57,960
Speaker 5: We'll come back and be part of that lesson.

1131
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:02,360
Speaker 2: All right, Thank you, Dan, great chat with you?

1132
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:03,760
Speaker 5: All right?

1133
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:04,800
Speaker 4: He was great?

1134
01:02:05,360 --> 01:02:08,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was great. Did you know him, Ryan, you've

1135
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:09,479
Speaker 2: talked to him before?

1136
01:02:09,560 --> 01:02:09,760
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1137
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:11,880
Speaker 3: I talked to him about some polling in the past.

1138
01:02:12,120 --> 01:02:14,480
Speaker 3: He's done a lot of work with David Siegel in

1139
01:02:14,520 --> 01:02:16,800
Speaker 3: the band Progress. But he's he's really good.

1140
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:19,560
Speaker 2: Gotcha nice? Yeah, fun talking to him. We'll have to

1141
01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:23,000
Speaker 2: find other excuses to have him back. Should we circle

1142
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:24,640
Speaker 2: back to his arm? Because I actually feel like this.

1143
01:02:24,800 --> 01:02:27,000
Speaker 2: All right, guys, thank you so much for watching the

1144
01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:28,920
Speaker 2: free portion of the Friday Show. We're going to move

1145
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:31,760
Speaker 2: into some premium bonus content, so if you want to

1146
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 2: watch that as well, make sure to go and subscribe

1147
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:37,040
Speaker 2: at Breakingpoints dot com. And for all of you guys

1148
01:02:37,040 --> 01:02:39,520
Speaker 2: who are already premium subscribers, that portion is going to

1149
01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:40,080
Speaker 2: start right now.