WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Bill Brennan 0:00:04.320 --> 0:00:16.079 Thinking Sideways. I don't know. You never know stories of 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:21.800 things we simply don't know the answer to. Okay, it's 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:28.480 up Thinking Sideways. The podcast I'm I'm Devin, joined as 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:36.159 usual by Steve and Joe. Yeah, here we are. I 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:40.120 get things for joining us again or joining us new, 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:44.120 whichever you are, here's our podcast. I hope you like it. 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:49.640 Of course it will. It's like a school project. We're 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:53.360 going to hop right into it. Uh. This week's story 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:57.200 is kind of like something you only see in movies. 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:02.480 It really is a movie story, movie movie tails, so 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:04.360 kind of they're kind of like embellished it quite a 0:01:04.360 --> 0:01:10.160 bit and made Oceans eleven. They added like ten guys, 0:01:10.200 --> 0:01:14.120 a whole bunch of suspense, a lot of gear and 0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:17.280 stuff like that. So. Bill Brennan, thirty four, had been 0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:19.920 working as a cashier at the Stardust Casino in Las 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:24.880 Vegas for about four years when on September twenty two, 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:29.720 he left work either for the end of the day 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:36.679 or for lunch, yeah, in the early morning hours, never 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:40.440 to be seen again. Yeah. And I guess what makes 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:42.880 this day even more unusual is that when he left, 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:45.360 he left with a backpack or duffel bag stuffed with 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:48.360 half a million dollars in cash and chips. He just 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:52.960 walked out. Um, nobody questioned him. He actually missed all 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:57.800 of the CCTV cameras cameras, thank you. Yeah, without a trace, 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:02.360 just gone. Probably worth mentioning that a half million dollars 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:07.440 is equivalent to eight hundred and forty seven thousand, six 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:11.600 hundred and fifty five dollars and two cents in today's money. Wow, 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:14.400 that was very good man to get the two cents 0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:16.040 in there. Yeah. I did it on the top of 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:22.920 my head. It's been hitting as harder than I thought. Yeah, 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:27.960 sure has This is the biggest quote successful robbery in 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:31.240 the history of Vegas. Also compounded by the fact that 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:34.280 it was carried out by one man, ostensibly one person. 0:02:34.600 --> 0:02:39.000 Not many people actually win that well at Vegas, so 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:42.639 he actually he's one of the few winners. Yeah. I 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:46.720 support this thing because he uh yeah, he's using canine. 0:02:46.720 --> 0:02:49.359 There's just such a big rip off. Yeah, so good 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:52.600 for him. Yeah, worked there for four years. I don't 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:56.120 know what, you know, finally broken but something maybe it 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:59.679 was the penny slots Ben. Yeah, so let's start talking 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:02.119 about Bill first. I'm talking about Bill. Then we're gonna 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:03.840 talk about the heist, then we're gonna talk about some 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:07.760 mother stuff. Bill was apparently kind of a loner. He 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:12.680 lived alone with his cat in an apartment with his cat, 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:18.480 with his cat. Do I remember correctly that everybody knew 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:20.320 he had a cat because he was one of those 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:25.000 cat guys who always talked about his cat. Yeah, he 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:28.160 loved his cat. He loved his cat. Was his cat 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:32.240 called Mr Snuggles? Do we know what his cat was called? 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:36.200 I never saw it in the reading. I was hoping 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:38.040 somebody else maybe it could be. Maybe it could be 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:43.040 Mr Snuggles. For all we know, it might be. His 0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:46.320 apartment manager said that he was quote just a nice kid. 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:50.760 There are a lot of interviews around this, by the way. Yeah, however, 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:54.960 apparently Bill got a little mixed up with a big 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:58.760 time gambler or maybe a bookie or maybe a better 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:03.040 All of the stories conflict. Yeah, I've heard a couple 0:04:03.080 --> 0:04:05.680 of versions of that. I've seen those. Yeah, and Bill 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:10.440 went from a promising, quote good kid to a problem. 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:15.000 His bosses started to take notice. This uh debtor that 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:18.560 he was hanging out with was a quote shady character 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:23.360 unquote so shady in fact that he apparently also disappeared. 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:28.920 Within a few months after Bill disappeared, Bill had made 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:30.760 it clear to his bosses that he really wanted to 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:32.960 work his way up through the casino. He was lobbying 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:38.200 to be a supervisor, but his boss was pretty leary 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:42.520 and said, oh, where what's the quote? With his quote, 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:44.840 with his change and attitude, I couldn't put in charge 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:48.000 of all that money. According to many co workers, Bill 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:51.039 was also reading books like how to Change your Identity, 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:56.160 how to hide dead bodies, So apparently people were noticing 0:04:56.200 --> 0:04:59.440 that he was having a change in behavior. But I 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:02.080 guess no what he thought that there would be a 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:05.520 heist of any kind. In fact, the head of security 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:10.000 at the time was like shocked, apparently baffled. What. I 0:05:10.040 --> 0:05:13.520 don't remember what did he do? Do you remember? What 0:05:13.560 --> 0:05:16.720 was his job? He was a cashier, so he was 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:19.880 the guy that you wouldn't exchange your chips with. Okay, okay, 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:22.599 which is why he had access to all that money. Okay, 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:25.240 that that makes sense. I was just making sure he 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:28.719 wasn't a dealer or something. No, no, And actually that's 0:05:28.839 --> 0:05:31.120 that's a great question. The heist is kind of a 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:34.839 work of pure simple genius in a way, stuff in 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:37.360 the bag and walk out. Nobody really knows what happened. 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:40.120 I mean, that's part of it, right, is that he 0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:45.080 wasn't caught on camera leaving. Nobody really saw him leaving. 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:47.880 He was a cashier, so he did have access to 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:51.320 the money, as we just said. But people in those 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:55.360 positions are usually like padded down, their bags are checked 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:58.120 things like that when they leave work, no matter what 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:01.200 their position is or how long I've been in that position. 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:04.680 Was that the procedure though in the early nineties, I 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:08.000 know that is today. I think cameras are everywhere, but 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:12.640 I'm pretty sure it's been procedure for a long time 0:06:13.720 --> 0:06:17.279 that I can see that, and it makes total sense. 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:21.800 I just I know that things in the casino were 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:25.719 much different in the seventies and eighties and bleeding into 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:29.880 the nineties. So I just wondered if maybe they weren't 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:33.320 as security conscious as they should have been with employees 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:36.360 that they knew. Well, it's actually very interesting point I'd 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:38.800 like to talk about in a little bit in terms 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:44.600 of trust with the casinos in the seventies, eighties, and nineties. Yeah. Absolutely, 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:48.080 we're getting to it. Okay, Okay, So the fact that 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:51.880 he didn't get patted down or checked or anything like 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:54.960 that has led to a lot of speculation that he 0:06:55.120 --> 0:06:57.960 had an accomplice in the security department who allowed him 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:00.320 to just leave without checking his bag or ant him 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:02.839 down or anything. And that would make sense also because 0:07:02.839 --> 0:07:05.279 he successfully missed all the cameras, although it seems like 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:07.600 that would be not so hard if you'd worked there 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:11.280 for four years. But also, cameras are in casinos are 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:15.240 meant to catch everything, so yeah, they I mean, if 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:17.480 he'd worked there that long, he knows where the cameras are. 0:07:17.480 --> 0:07:20.720 And the cameras aren't comprehensive. They don't cover every square 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:25.040 foot of territory. Well, and I remember reading somewhere on 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:28.000 some forum somebody had put up the fact that, yeah, 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:31.880 I knew where the cameras were, and they don't actually cover, 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:35.240 as Joe said, every square inch. So it is possible 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:38.600 if you knew where they were to plan your route, Well, 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:42.760 you could could just walk through and not look out 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:45.160 of place. You were, you know, doing the uh the 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:48.840 mission impossible, duck and dive left and right, kind of 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:52.400 following a little serpentine path out the door. Yeah, of 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:55.120 course there's actolutely there's really no reason for him to 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:57.600 try to even avoid the cameras. I mean, so what 0:07:57.720 --> 0:07:59.000 they go back to the tape and they see him 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:01.760 walking out, and that's not going to enable them to 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:05.080 catch him. That that's actually interesting and it brings up 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:07.080 a really interesting point is that I wasn't able to 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:09.640 find anywhere how they knew that it was him that 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:13.760 stole all the money and chips, right, Because if they 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:16.840 never found him and they didn't have him on TV 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:20.320 walking out, I would assume that the only thing that 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:22.480 happened is that somebody said, oh, yeah, I saw him 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:25.360 walking out of here with a bag, but like he 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:29.239 would have a bag anyways. And also then that person 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:31.400 was saying, yeah, I let him walk out of here 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:33.600 with a bag and I didn't check it. You know 0:08:33.640 --> 0:08:37.960 that That's another layer of weird complex mystery around this 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:41.040 whole thing, is like, how do we even know for 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:45.480 sure that he did this? That's true, I mean, they 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:47.400 deduce set from the fact that he want he left, 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:50.920 he left work and never came back. But yeah, I 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:53.840 suppose I supposing you wanted to do something like that, 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:55.760 you wanted to steal this money and keep your job, 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:59.800 and you're willing to kill somebody. So after he leaves 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:03.439 where you you you, you know, sneak out with all 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:05.880 this money, and then you go over to his his 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:08.240 apartment and you invite about for a drink, and then 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:10.600 you murder him and bury his bodies somewhere on the desert, 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:13.840 and he gets, you know, he gets to wrap for it. 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:18.600 How long after he left, whether it be for lunch 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:21.839 or the end of his shift, do you know, because 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:23.560 I don't remember in the reading, how long was it 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:26.920 after that he disappeared that they realized the cash was gone. Yeah, 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:29.840 it wasn't too long. I mean, I think that that 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:31.800 must be the way, right that, like somebody went to 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:35.480 go cash him out and realized you're missing like a 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:39.160 half a million dollars, dude, that's not so within hours, 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:41.280 Yeah it was, and they you know, all of the 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:44.640 stories say that the police rushed to his apartment, where 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:47.640 neither he nor his cat were to be found. That's right, 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:52.440 Stuggles was gone. The others suggest that this mystery, like 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:59.400 Big Better or Yeah the Skis, was Bill's accomplice. And 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:04.480 there's a lot of allusions to this guy, allusions, but 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:08.120 nobody ever names names, so you can't go out and 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:12.240 do research on this, like mysterious shady character who also disappeared, 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:15.480 who also disappeared, But they're not willing to say, like 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:19.280 it was this dude who disappeared, and theoretically that guy 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:23.520 is made up. Maybe probably if if nobody's ever named 0:10:23.600 --> 0:10:26.080 names and there's just interviews, he was hanging out with 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:29.360 this shady guy who bet in the casino all the time, 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:34.520 you don't know if that guy actually existed. So actually 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:37.040 it's interesting. I want to talk about the Stardust for 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:39.880 a minute, the history of the Stardust. This is because 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:44.160 this this connects pretty well with the whole It would 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:46.719 help explain why people are a little hesitant to name 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:50.640 names of some big, better, shady character sort of thing. 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:54.480 It's very true. So it turns out the Stardust has 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:57.800 some really strong mob connections. Yeah, I know it did 0:10:57.840 --> 0:10:59.719 back in the day. Anyway, I'm not sure it still does. 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:03.040 We'll find out. This is Vegas, of course, of course. 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:06.200 In fact, I wanna I want to talk about the mob, 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:09.400 and let's talk about Jimmy Hoffa. You know Jimmy. You 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:12.160 know Jimmy Hoffa. Something we got to talk about Jimmy. Yeah, 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:16.480 that's true. Yeah, he did disappear. Yeah we will be. Yeah, 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:18.199 we will be. I've been thinking about that one actually 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:21.719 for a while. And actually, yes, I freely admit we're 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:24.360 diverging from the story at hand for a minute, but 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:27.240 just bear with me. It's going to tie in, I promise. 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:29.560 Jimmy Hoffa, as you may or may not know, was 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:33.160 the driving force in the Union's UH and Teamsters kind 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:37.480 of movement in the fifties and sixties. In addition to this, 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:41.480 he was also heavily involved with the Mob, mostly Chicago, 0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:45.640 but also in Kentucky and Kansas City. Kansas City. Kansas 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:47.920 City was kind of a big mom headquarters. Turns out 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:53.199 soon they're early sixties. Haffa, being a nice dude, loaned 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:57.080 six point seven million dollars via a secret deal with 0:11:57.200 --> 0:12:00.920 the Las Vegas Teamsters to one Mr Alan to purchase 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:09.760 the Stardust Hotel. Gets for that, Yeah, we're getting to it. 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:13.320 We're getting to it. That means, I guess to clarify 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:16.520 that in effect, for a while at least, the Mob 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:20.520 legitimately owned the Stardust Hotel. Not only that, but they 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:23.160 were getting these kickbacks. And I just want to go 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:25.400 ahead and remind everybody. This is the sixties and the 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:27.480 seventies that we're talking about here. So when we talk 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:29.640 about millions, that's back when a million bucks was actually 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:32.240 worth something. Was you know, when being a millionaire was 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:35.960 actually something that's like mind blowing. All Right, we're gonna 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:39.280 talk about this little story shoot off here with a 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:44.800 man named Frank Lefty Rosenthal. Lefty, he started working at 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:50.040 the Stardust in two He's also got a strong mob connection, 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:53.080 and he basically takes over the place. It turns out 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:56.800 he and Glick were not pals. They butted heads a lot. 0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:02.160 Lefty was kind of a bad dude. He was a jerk. 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:05.520 In the late nineteen seventies, the Nevada Gaming Commission rated 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:09.440 the Stardust Hotels counting room and uncovered a skim on 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:13.880 slot machines that was worth uh seven million dollars in 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:17.079 a year. Now do you by skim do you mean 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:20.040 that's that's money just giving off the top. That's unreported. 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:26.640 Lefty was solely responsible for that. The Gaming Commission struggled 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:30.440 for years with Lefty. They really wanted to Okay, they 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:33.439 wanted to kick him out for I mean obvious reasons. 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:36.440 Right He wasn't kicking back money too. He wasn't. In 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:40.400 nineteen seventies six, they denied his application for a gaming license, 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:44.600 which meant that he couldn't be involved in the casino anymore. 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:47.439 You couldn't be an operator, Yeah, they And they blacklisted 0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:51.480 him actually a few years after that. So Lefty, Uh, 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:55.400 not one to really listen to voices of authority, quit 0:13:55.559 --> 0:14:01.360 his job as casino manager, but not before he rehired 0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:04.439 himself and gave him the title of Food and Beverage 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:07.920 Services and then entertainment director. He's also the reason that 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:11.440 Siegfried and Roy were at the Stardust. This is like 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:15.520 a little interesting. He's still the act. In the early eighties, 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:20.040 the Gaming Commission finished up an investigation that had been 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:23.920 ongoing essentially since Glick came into the picture, and Rosenthal 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:28.760 as well, and they found out that about fifteen million 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:31.960 dollars had been skimmed from the Stardust alone and kicked 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:36.400 back to Mr Hassa, back to the mob. All that 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:38.920 went back to the to the mob or to the teamsters. 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:41.600 I mean not all, but a lot of a big 0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:43.760 chunk of it. I mean it was spread between Chicago 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:47.720 and Kansas City, but I don't know Lefty. I really 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:51.360 find him interesting now. He's he's the main character in 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:56.040 the movie Casino, which is, oh gosh, who's the lead 0:14:56.080 --> 0:15:03.280 actor in that? Dustin Hoffman Nero de Niro plays him 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:06.960 under a different name in that movie. But Yeah, what 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:11.520 cracks me up is I was doing some reading about 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:15.760 Lefty and he during this couple of year period when 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:19.680 he was fighting with the Gaming Commission, they would put 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:23.360 him unto, you know, in talks, and he would be, uh, 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:26.160 he would badger them, and that's basically why he got 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:29.240 kicked out. He's he wouldn't play ball with them. And 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:32.280 when he was doing these things like you know, making himself, 0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:36.400 what was he food and beverage services director? He actually 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:39.200 and he was entertainment director. He actually started a TV 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:44.840 show in the casino and he would he would interview 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:48.520 the acts and he would get them to talk about 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:52.360 the Gaming Commission and he would beat them up. And 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:58.240 evidently it was a terrible show. The Rosenthal shows a 0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:00.920 picture of him sitting on this on the set with 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:05.000 Frank Sinatra. I don't know, I don't know what if 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:07.880 Sinatra mentioned that in his memoirs at all. Probably Yeah, 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:10.760 there's actually there's an awesome picture of Lefty that's like 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:13.920 the quintessential like mob picture. I'm going to do the 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:16.880 impression right now. I'll see if we can't like link 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:18.920 to it or something on the website. The duck face. 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:21.120 It's the one where he's just like, yeah, he's doing 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:24.160 kind of a duck face, like yeah. That was when 0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:27.600 he was in one of those commission meetings and was 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:32.240 not being a very nice gentleman. So finally the Gaming 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:34.960 Commission got rid of Lefty. I actually think it was 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:36.840 the mob that got rid of Lefty. I don't remember 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:40.800 who got rid of left Yeah, he left the left 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:46.920 He disappear, No, he his car was exploded. Yeah yeah, 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:50.600 his car blew up with him in it. It was 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:53.680 a big enough Catillac that he didn't get killed. There 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:57.200 was a reinforced steel plate under his feet that saved him. 0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:00.200 He had like minor cuts and bruises. I gotta or 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:05.520 if he had that put into that, because that's not 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:09.159 standard in that vehicle. And they half inch thick steel 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:12.160 plates underneath your vehicle. Sah, yeah, you know. I mean 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:14.560 if I were in that business, I would probably have 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:17.680 like an armored like like bulletproof glass and armor in 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:21.000 the doors and everything like that. Yeah, that would be 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:27.359 a good idea. So after Lefty Rosenthal left. Sorry everyone. 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:33.240 The Gaming Commission, I guess, somehow was instrumental in installing 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:36.920 the next two owners. They facilitated the deal of these 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:41.080 owners buying the Stardust and in the mid eighties it 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:44.159 turned out, oh oops, these guys had been skimming to 0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:50.240 they were fined what at that time was a record 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:54.679 setting amount three point five million dollars each. That was 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:58.280 the most that any individuals had been fined for. The 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:01.119 Gaming Commission basically hated this artist at this point, it 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:06.600 sounds like they did. And then somehow magically in the 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:10.639 Startust was declared mob free, and but that there's no 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:15.720 explanation on like how that happened or like, you know, 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:20.160 they they put some bad guys in those seats. One 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:23.600 they probably they probably co opted the game and still 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:27.840 still kind of skimming off the top. Well, but you know, 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:33.160 think about the mob was big in the fifties, sixties 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:37.639 and began to wane in the seventies after that, and 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:41.320 the government was going after them everywhere, so it's much 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:44.479 harder for them to just freely operate and do what 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:48.480 they want, and they've got to move more and more 0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:52.520 behind the scenes, which means it's it's much harder for 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:55.639 them to do their business. And something that is that 0:18:55.760 --> 0:19:01.040 regulated gambling, you know, with the board and everything. I 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:05.280 can't see it where they could just sneakily put somebody 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:08.639 in anymore. Well, I think it's just generally, you know, 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:11.840 they weaned down the population of mobsters in high positions 0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:14.119 and they were just stealing trucks and that was it. 0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:16.520 And so now I know they were doing more than that. 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:19.240 And then yeah, so the government brilliantly got rid of 0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:21.080 the mob and now and now, of course we don't 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:23.119 have any thing as organized crime in this country, and 0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:28.520 definitely not or you know, criminals in positions of power, 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:32.800 or people who let greed take over their sense of 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:36.399 think that I think actually it may in the end 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:37.880 have been a mistake to get rid of the mob, 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:41.080 because these guys at least played by a set of rules, 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:44.080 whereas a lot of their successors and organized crime in America. 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:48.600 So they had some serious rules and they gotta gotta 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:51.639 admit there were some things that I liked about the 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:53.840 mob days when you read about them, like, you know, 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:57.679 the mob guys see some dude beating up his wife 0:19:57.760 --> 0:20:01.080 and suddenly the mob shows up at his house and 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:03.520 he's got two broken legs and he never hits his 0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:06.040 kid again. Kind of thing. Like they there was some 0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:09.160 old school rules that they played by that were good things. 0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:11.960 They did a lot of bad things. Yeah, but for example, 0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:14.719 if you if you, if you whacked a guy, you 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:17.040 didn't kill his family, and you did make sure not 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:18.560 to do it in front of his family and then 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:20.600 and they had all kinds of rules like that. Yeah, 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:25.080 which they did bad things, but there's a there's a 0:20:25.119 --> 0:20:27.840 silver lining to sub of it right now, and that 0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:30.879 we are totally out this isn't a show about the mob. No, no, 0:20:31.240 --> 0:20:33.000 I'm sorry. Go ahead, We'll talk a lot more about 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:36.879 the mob in our Jimmy Hoffa episode. Yeah, well, you 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:40.560 guys want to talk about billsmore, we probably should. Yeah. Probably. 0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:43.879 I guess that whole tangent was a little bit to 0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:46.760 explain the history of the startups, to explain that people 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:50.960 in power in the stardust have not always been the 0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:54.800 most honest. Well, yeah, it's Vegas. I mean, everybody knows 0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:57.679 about Vegas and its origins and all that stuff, and 0:20:58.000 --> 0:20:59.879 like say, maybe the mob is still there and may 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:02.760 be not, but if they're if they're still there, that 0:21:02.840 --> 0:21:04.560 I would tell you why he's never heard from again. 0:21:04.600 --> 0:21:07.400 You know, it's not there anymore. What's that started stars? Yeah? 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:09.439 I saw a picture of you guys probably saw it 0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:11.880 too on the web page of the old original Classic 0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:17.119 Startust Junkyard in a junkyard. Yeah, I want it so cool. 0:21:17.200 --> 0:21:18.639 I wonder if I wonder if they want to the 0:21:18.640 --> 0:21:21.360 Smithsonian Institution or something like that. You know, it's only 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:24.159 an institute should have gotten that somebody should take. Hopefully 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:26.360 somebody got a hold of it. You know, maybe I'll 0:21:26.400 --> 0:21:29.800 put it in my backyard. Yeah, we'll go over really 0:21:29.840 --> 0:21:32.399 well with my neighbors. I think it might be bigger 0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:34.920 than your backyard. You're gonna have to they're gonna have 0:21:35.000 --> 0:21:39.640 to get airspace rights over your neighbor's yards. Possibly. When 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:44.960 it comes to Bill, there's really only two theories. You know, 0:21:45.000 --> 0:21:47.199 there's sub theories under it, right, but either he's a 0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:51.359 live or he's dead. Quick question. Yeah, of the cash 0:21:51.400 --> 0:21:53.440 and ships that he took, what how much was cash 0:21:53.480 --> 0:21:55.399 and how much was Yeah, that's that's kind of a 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:57.840 big thing. Is that nobody knows? I mean, I'm sure 0:21:57.880 --> 0:22:01.439 they know, right, they wouldn't know, but it's not publicized 0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:05.000 how much. Because that's actually one of my big problems 0:22:05.359 --> 0:22:08.120 with some of these theories is that we don't know 0:22:08.200 --> 0:22:09.679 how much of it was money and how much of 0:22:09.760 --> 0:22:12.879 it was chips. I gotta be honest. If he was 0:22:13.000 --> 0:22:16.240 smart and he intended to get out of town, I 0:22:16.280 --> 0:22:19.320 wouldn't take a single chip. Well, I think it's interesting. 0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:22.600 You know you can if you plan this ahead, you say, 0:22:22.760 --> 0:22:24.600 I'm in a steal a bunch of chips, will you 0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:26.600 pay them for me, you know, at a reduced rate 0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:29.520 and market? Yeah, and then you can go. You set 0:22:29.520 --> 0:22:31.640 that deal up prior, you do it quick, and then 0:22:31.680 --> 0:22:33.480 you That's kind of what I was thinking is with 0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:36.680 the one of his gambling friends, you could have said, look, 0:22:36.680 --> 0:22:38.800 if I got you a pile of chips and I'm 0:22:38.840 --> 0:22:41.920 in a huge pilot chips, how much would you give me? Like, 0:22:41.960 --> 0:22:45.480 would you give me seven seventy cents on the dollar, 0:22:45.880 --> 0:22:47.919 you know something like that somewhere some reduced traight and 0:22:48.000 --> 0:22:50.920 just make a bulk sale. Yeah, absolutely, because yeah, obviously 0:22:50.920 --> 0:22:53.160 he can't go back and gamble rate chips, so he's 0:22:53.200 --> 0:22:55.240 gotta he had cash him in it. You don't even 0:22:55.280 --> 0:22:56.800 have to gamble him. You can just walk up and 0:22:56.840 --> 0:23:00.520 cash him out. And as soon as it was known, 0:23:00.640 --> 0:23:04.399 the casino put out all the other casinos. Hey, we 0:23:04.440 --> 0:23:06.800 had a whole bunch of chips stolen, so'll be watching 0:23:06.840 --> 0:23:09.919 out for random people walking in with huge stacks of 0:23:09.920 --> 0:23:13.520 our chips suddenly to be cashing you do. Well. Do 0:23:13.720 --> 0:23:17.080 other casinos honor the chips from from the other casinos? 0:23:17.160 --> 0:23:21.080 And I don't you know, I never gambled with chips 0:23:21.119 --> 0:23:25.320 in Vegas. I've always played slot machines because I weeny uh, 0:23:25.359 --> 0:23:27.879 and so I don't really know. I wouldn't think that 0:23:27.880 --> 0:23:31.920 they would, but I remember seeing stuff in the reading 0:23:32.000 --> 0:23:37.080 about them alerting other casinos to large denominations of their 0:23:37.200 --> 0:23:39.760