WEBVTT - Strange News: Billionaires are Booming, Elon Musk Cheats at Games, Pardons and Commutations 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:04.680 From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 0:00:04.760 --> 0:00:09.080 riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:12.119 learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:13.920 production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:20.520 --> 0:00:23.200 Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my. 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:25.000 Name is Noah. They goll be ben. 0:00:25.079 --> 0:00:27.880 We are joined as always with our super producer Dylan 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:31.720 the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you are you. You 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:36.000 are here. That makes this the stuff they don't want. 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:36.360 You to know. 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:39.960 If you are hearing our strange news program the Evening 0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:42.920 it publishes, let us be the first to officially welcome 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:48.120 you to Monday, January twenty seventh. There's so much stuff 0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:52.960 going on. A shout out to everybody who had you 0:00:53.000 --> 0:00:56.800 know who is chasing the TikTok dragon and had to 0:00:56.840 --> 0:01:00.800 go into some hard like some hard with and then 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:01.880 got it back. 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:04.319 It was a real roller coaster of emotions over my 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:08.480 house with the kids being like it's gone, everything is terrible, 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:11.000 it's back. It's just yeah. It was. It was fun. 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:17.760 Yeah, and uh TikTok is obviously a huge social media platform. 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:22.479 It was pulled voluntarily by a TikTok's parent company due 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:26.840 to the ongoing discourse between the US and China, and 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:31.480 then it was reinstated kind of the same way that 0:01:31.920 --> 0:01:34.679 Coca Cola did New Coke and then came out with 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:39.160 Coke Classic and it was an entirely different recipe. 0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:42.880 Hmmm, well, Ben, I mean you mentioned offline, you know, 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:46.479 the need to maybe do a deeper dive into how 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:51.120 social media affects our attention span, but also what an 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:56.920 important potential means of opinion manipulation and control it could 0:01:56.920 --> 0:01:59.800 be in the hands of, say, a government that was 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:01.240 using it in that fashion. 0:02:01.880 --> 0:02:05.600 I'd like to shout out you met for for noticing 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:08.960 the historical precedence that maybe a play. 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:13.240 What what you mean, limiting the access people have to 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:16.320 certain information and then controlling the information that's fed to them, 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:19.520 much like in the episode we just discussed where you 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:22.040 take a hostage then you say, hey, you can only 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:24.160 read these papers that we authored. 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:26.959 Yeah, yeah, Orwell was right. 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:30.240 I hate to say it. Orwell was right though, and 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:32.480 a good writer for sure. And I mean, you know, 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:38.240 if done with enough subtlety, it could almost go unnoticed 0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:41.000 for a while, you know, just manipulating the algorithm in 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:43.920 just such a way to feed just enough stories that 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:47.520 support a particular ideology or worldview, and then before you 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:50.760 know it, kid's opinions are starting to change. I mean, 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:53.000 and kids are smart. I'm not trying to say they're stupid, 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:55.920 but this stuff is very difficult to combat. With the 0:02:55.960 --> 0:02:59.680 whole back to back video inging of TikTok, you almost 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:03.880 won't even notice that you're kind of being fed propaganda, and. 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:08.160 Social media does attack your attention span. Tune in for 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:11.280 our episode on that. This part of the show is 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:15.200 brought to you by Luigi Mangioti and the Tianamen Square 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:15.880 Tourist Board. 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:24.239 We'll be right back with our strange news and we've returned. 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:28.120 We'll call the first part of tonight's program if I 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:33.480 could get some Innio Morricone music, Dylan Pardons and commutations 0:03:33.919 --> 0:03:38.200 wah wah wah, the Good, the Bad, and the ugly. 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:44.960 So first off, yeah, first off, check out our album. Secondly, 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:49.400 we have to talk about the difference between a pardon 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:53.640 and a commutation. Quite recently, we here in the still 0:03:53.960 --> 0:04:01.840 tenuously United States saw something extraordinary. One outgoing presidential administration 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:08.400 released a wave of pardons and commutations. The incoming administration 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:13.160 also launched a thousand ships technically more than a thousand 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:19.080 of pardons, and this is something that needs to be examined. 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:19.280 Now. 0:04:19.279 --> 0:04:23.479 We know politics and ideology can be really sticky for 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:26.560 a lot of people. We know that the American justice 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:30.760 system has a ton of problems, but it is very 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:36.320 important to begin with this. A pardon says you're fine, 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:42.200 you're forgiven. A commutation says you are still guilty, but 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:43.360 we're going to let you go. 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:46.760 Are there versions of commutations where it could just be 0:04:46.880 --> 0:04:49.799 like a reduced sentence, or is it always okay? 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:52.960 I thought so, Yeah, Yeah, commutation. Think of it as 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:57.040 a spectrum, right, and a pardon is more absolute in 0:04:57.080 --> 0:04:57.600 that regard. 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:01.240 Well, and a pardon restores all of your rights as 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:01.839 a citizen. 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:05.680 Yeah, And this is where we see. 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:07.839 The reason we're calling it the good, the bad, and 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:13.479 the ugly is because depending upon your personal perspective, right, 0:05:13.560 --> 0:05:17.040 or depending upon whom you ask, some people will say 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:21.080 a series of pardons are awesome. Other people will say 0:05:21.400 --> 0:05:25.880 a series of pardons or commutations are absolutely corrupt. One 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:28.839 of the commutations we can begin with that we see, 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:32.800 I believe, I hope collectively as an absolute win is 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:39.160 Elder Leonard Peltier has had his sentence commuted. It was 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:44.440 commuted in what we call an eleventh hour move by 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:51.080 the outgoing US presidential administration, the Biden administration. Do now, 0:05:51.160 --> 0:05:57.760 we recently had an episode about Elder Peltier and we 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:01.760 we actually wrote to him as well. We haven't heard back, 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:05.360 and if you're listening, sir, we hope that you. We 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:07.560 hope that you don't take the time to write us back. 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:10.640 We hope that you enjoy your freedom. Do we want 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:13.080 to talk a little bit about Leonard Peltier who he 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:16.520 is just a quick recap for anybody who hasn't heard 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:17.320 the episode yet. 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:20.400 Sure. Yeah, And there's also a really great podcast out 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:22.800 there called Leonard that's about his story. But he is 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:28.440 an elder Native American tribesman who was caught up in 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:33.720 a gunfight with the FBI essentially, and it would seem 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:36.840 upon examination of the story that he was more or 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:41.120 less defending himself from you know, folks who are coming 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:46.600 into his territory aggressively. And he was of course convicted 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:47.280 for a murder. 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:51.160 Yeah, and there was a whole flight from the scene 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:54.600 and you know, hiding out and then weapons charges and 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:58.400 all this other stuff. It's a it's worth your time 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:00.200 to listen to the episode we made on it, just 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:02.360 so you can see the complexity of the issue and 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:06.160 why maybe there are people out there who wanted him 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:08.440 out immediately and then other people who wanted to keep 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:09.600 him in indefinitely. 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:12.280 Yeah, well, put there, guys. 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:17.120 There was an executive grant of clemency signed by former 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:22.840 President Joe Biden on January nineteenth. We're recording this on Wednesday, 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:28.320 January second. The commutation goes into effect on February eighteenth, 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:36.040 and to it seems that the administration was highlighting, underlining, italicizing, 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:40.680 emphasizing that this was not a pardon. The former President 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:45.400 Joe Biden said that Peltierre is to serve the remainder 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:49.560 of his sentence. He's granted clemency, so he's not in jail, 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:53.120 serving the remainder of his sentence at home, and then 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:57.640 took extensive pains to reiterate that this was not a pardon. 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:02.840 This was not to say that he didn't do things 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:07.920 that US courts convicted him of doing. That's pretty controversial 0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:12.000 on both sides of the aisle, because a lot of 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:18.840 law enforcement entities absolutely opposed even clemency, and we as 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:24.360 we record, Leonard Peltier is eighty years old. So it's 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:28.440 not as though he's going to be running triathlons. 0:08:28.520 --> 0:08:31.760 Just to be clear, I mean, he's certainly paid for 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:35.360 what he was convicted of, you know, whatever you view 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:39.160 the reality of that situation, I mean, that's a very 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:42.600 very large portion of a man's life gone. 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:48.160 Yeah, and let's stay with the outgoing administration for a moment, because, 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:54.080 as many of us doubtlessly doubtlessly know, there were a 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:58.640 lot of pardons issued in that proverbial eleventh hour by 0:08:58.679 --> 0:09:04.240 the Biden administration as the Trump administration was coming into 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:07.680 force right or was coming into the White House. The 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:12.480 list here gets controversial for some people, especially folks who 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:16.200 are not fans of the Biden administration, because there were 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:20.439 a lot of family pardons. You know, there were pardons 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:25.600 for the former president's brothers, James and Francis, as well 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:29.040 as his sister, his sister in law, his brother in law. 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:34.840 There were some pardons for people like Gerald Lundergrand who 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:40.160 was convicted in twenty nineteen on campaign finance charges. The 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:44.120 White House in that case said he demonstrated remorse. We 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:47.520 don't often shout these out this media platform out, but 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:50.160 Newsweek if you want to check them out, they have 0:09:50.440 --> 0:09:55.800 a pretty up to date list on the full Biden pardons. 0:09:56.520 --> 0:10:00.880 We also see that he here's our segue. We see 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:06.600 that his administration collectively pardoned the members and staff of 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:11.680 the Select Committee investigating the events of January sixth. 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:17.880 Isn't that interesting? Preemptive pardons? It's so weird, Ben, did 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:19.559 you call out the website. I didn't even know there 0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:21.520 was an Office of the Pardon Attorney. 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:24.480 There is an Office of the Pardon Attorney. Yes, that's 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:26.240 a true story. That's a real thing. 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:31.560 You could go to the Justice dot gov website. I 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:34.240 think it's just slash pardon and you'll get to the 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:36.360 Office of the Pardon Attorney and you can see that 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:40.120 entire list Ben is talking about. And it is fascinating 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:43.720 to look at the giant list over the years, just 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:47.880 as they happen with each president. Wow, that is a 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:52.400 whole that's a whole podcast series just examining the pardons. 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:55.120 Yeah, and it's also I love that point, man, because 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:58.720 it's also a way for us to do a kind 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:01.600 of political dendo anology, you know, where you look at 0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:04.520 the rings of trees like this is a great way 0:11:04.600 --> 0:11:07.560 to see the passage of time. And this is very 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:12.480 much one of the few presidential superpowers, right, yeah, just 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:15.560 pardon people at the end, like some weird super move. 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:19.840 It's up there with an executive order, and technically you 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:24.120 put out an executive order, uh whatever you want, right, 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:27.040 And it's the branch. It's the executive branch. So who's 0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:29.679 who's really going to fight you dude. 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:35.520 Let's go back to George Bush from early jem earlier. 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:38.640 Let's look at all the pardons that occurred as he 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:41.080 was exiting, just to look at you know. 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:41.800 Just to get a sense. 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:47.080 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, which ones are your favorite? 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:50.800 George W. Bush pardons? You guys were awesome parties. 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:55.240 Jeezus, nothing, nothing's ringing a bell right off the top. 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:58.000 Well, I just imagine, Look, there's a speculation on my 0:11:58.040 --> 0:12:00.000 part because that list, and I haven't thought about it 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:04.400 for a while, but I imagine there's some preemptive pardoning 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:10.280 of potential war criminality. What to say? 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:13.080 And I mean I was saying, you know, maybe we 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:16.280 often think of pardons as something that happens at the 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:19.360 end of an administration as well, but these can happen 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:23.080 anytime throughout an administration. I'm looking at the lists of 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:26.800 pardons granted by President George W. Bush at Justice dot gov, 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:29.439 and they go from December of two thousand and two 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:32.920 all the way to January first, two thousand and nine, 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:36.319 which is obviously a much longer list than the ones. No, 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:39.920 that's not true. November twenty fourth is a massive list. Boy, 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:41.800 it would take a lot of doing to kind of 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:45.360 dig into some of these technical William Bruce but was 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:48.360 pardoned for bank embezzlement ninety you. 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:53.880 Get in situations like obviously, also, we must say that 0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:58.720 almost anybody is eligible for a pardon in the United States. 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:03.760 Henry le Lucas, prolific serial killer, was spared from the 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:07.800 death chamber by George W. Bush at the time a 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:12.120 governor who commuted his death sentence, and governor's powers are 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:15.960 not quite on the same level as the Potus Holy Cow. 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:19.080 This guy William Marcus McDonald, who was in the Air Force. 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:23.440 Under the US Air Force General Court Martial, he was 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:27.200 pardoned for a distribution of cocaine, possession of cocaine with 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:31.000 intent to distribute, use of cocaine, possession of cocaine, and 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:33.959 use of marijuana. I want to know what that backstory is. 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:37.520 Small time or he was the plug. There's there's always 0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:41.040 that possibility, right, Maybe he was. Maybe he was like, 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:44.040 come on, man, every time you texted me, I was there. 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:46.520 A lot of these are drug charges. 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:50.080 Yes, wild this poor guy Greg Biden, he was also 0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:53.120 in the Air Force. Biden pardoned him for wrongful use 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:53.720 of cocaine. 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:54.800 He just used him. 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:57.720 As opposed to the rightful use right right, which is 0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:01.080 clearly to make eighties Bank is like, oh, make it, 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:05.760 You're so fine. Clearly Coca was an executive producer on 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:10.360 that one. Apologies to music. So the reason we're setting 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:15.560 this up here is because we see that pardons, commutations, clemency, 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:20.000 they can always be divisive. It's in fact, it's quite 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:24.840 rare for these actions on the executive branch to not 0:14:25.680 --> 0:14:28.680 rub some people the wrong way, unless you're talking about 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:35.720 clemency for clearly racially motivated stitch ups, you know, like 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:39.440 civil rights activists and so on. I wanted to segue 0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:43.240 us to the other side of the pardons because right 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:46.400 after Biden leaves, right after the Biden administration goes out, 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:51.800 the Donald Trump administration comes in. They return right ll cool, Jay, 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:55.600 don't call it a comeback, and they pardon a ton 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:59.440 of people in a way that actually pisses off some Republicans. 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:02.760 Yeah, anyone in particular, Ben, that you're thinking of. 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:08.360 Well, for the most interesting purpose on our show here 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:11.320 and all, I would say one thing that stood out 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:15.360 to us was the pardon of the creator of the 0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:20.320 Silk Road two point zero, the creator of the dark 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:23.600 web market, the Silk Road, which a lot of people 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:27.800 used to buy their drugs, and I guess to the 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:32.479 earlier point, hopefully they were using them the right way. 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:37.600 This is a guy named Ross Olbricht, and Ross Olbricht 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:40.400 we were talking about this offline and we received some 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:43.600 messages from some of our fellow conspiracy realists about this. 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:46.800 We have previous episodes on this. He was convicted in 0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:51.920 twenty fifteen in New York State here in US. In 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:53.960 case anybody needs to be caught up on or read 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:57.600 up on that accurate, Yeah, yeah, yeah, all true. He 0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:04.960 was convicted in convicted for distribution of narcotics for conspiracies 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:09.600 related to money laundering. He was sentenced to life in prison, 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:16.040 which was, as we noted previously in twenty fifteen, fairly unusual. 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:21.080 Like the severity of his sentence as a first time offender, 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:24.400 et cetera, et cetera. It really seemed to be a 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:28.200 matter of, you could say, setting an example, or a 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:32.320 matter of people saying, hey, we're aware of cyber crime 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:37.360 and we're you know, we're not just some stodgy. 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:39.480 Old I'm almost quoting Philip Larkin. 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:42.960 We're not some stodgy old fools in hats and coats. 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:47.200 We understand speaking of stodgy old fools and no offense 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:50.880 guys or to myself. But ten years ago, approximately, we 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:54.480 talked with Alex Winter about his documentary Deep Web about 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:57.680 Ross Olbricht and the Silk Road and everything that was 0:16:57.720 --> 0:17:02.280 happening then, and it was basically, we need some justice 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:04.439 for this guy, and feel how you feel about the 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:06.639 Silk Road and Bitcoin and all of that stuff that 0:17:06.720 --> 0:17:09.960 was happening. But this guy kind of got he was 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:11.760 made into an example just as you said. 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:16.040 Yeah, yeah, agreed, and great shout out to our pal Alex. 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:21.639 Alex Winter is a phenomenal documentarian, one of our favorite 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:23.400 behind the scenes moments there. 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:24.800 I can't believe a decade ago. 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:28.760 Well, and if you don't know the name Alex Winter, 0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:31.120 you might know Bill s Preston Esquire. 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:33.560 Yes, of course, Yeah, I had some adventures. They were 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:35.600 pretty excellent wild stallions. 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:41.320 So he went on to become a phenomenal documentarian and 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:46.359 a very kind, quite accomplished individual. My favorite behind the 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:50.920 scenes moment again, oh jez a decade ago, was during 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:56.480 the interview this guy's so erudite, he's so smart. He 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:58.560 pauses for a second. We hear a beep in the 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:01.640 background and he goes, oh yeah, guys, hold on off air, 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:03.960 My hot pockets are done. 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:09.240 That's right. Was amazing. Yeah. 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:13.679 So this has been for proponents of Ulbricht. This has 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:17.199 been a long time in coming, and one of the 0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:21.280 many pardons or moves toward clemency granted by the incoming 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:27.399 Trump administration was the pardon of Ross Ulbricht and this 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:31.040 like please check out our interview with Alex, Please check 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:35.119 out our earlier conversations about this, and also shout out 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:38.280 to everybody wrote in about the dread pirate Roberts, because 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:40.720 that is the alias albrid used. 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:43.480 When he was running this h So that ken one 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:46.160 more shout out, Oh please do shout out to dastardly 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:50.720 Dan consummate voicemailer on the show and he he hips 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:54.800 us to an album called Freedom by Akira the Dawn. Yes, 0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:59.080 that features It's basically a bunch of phone calls ross 0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:02.320 made from prison and I guess to you know Akira 0:19:02.480 --> 0:19:06.160 or somebody associated with Akira. Then Akira the Dawn put 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:08.880 that to music and it's an entire, like thirty five 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:11.600 minute album of that and it's. 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:12.520 Brilliant, superb. 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:16.880 Yeah, yeah, and thank you dastardly Dan, Thank you Agira 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:19.560 the Dawn. It reminds me we were saving this fro 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:22.600 on air. It reminds me of for any hip hop heads, 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:29.040 the recordings you will hear from Mumia Abu Jamal, most notably, 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:34.720 perhaps for backpacker nerds like us, most notably featured on 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:40.000 several tracks by Immortal Technique. Mortal Technique is not for everybody, 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:43.240 but do you check it out. We're just gonna lead 0:19:43.320 --> 0:19:45.600 you to the edge of that rabbit hole. Go ahead 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:46.119 and dive in. 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:47.680 I would you know. 0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:51.520 Those artists that you adore but you feel like they 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:54.560 would probably hate your guts. I think that's that's the 0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:56.280 way I feel about Immortal Technique. 0:19:56.560 --> 0:19:59.360 Like True Story, they buried the hatchet. I hate pop 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:02.159 culture talk, but I respect both these guys. He buried 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:06.400 the hatchet with Lynn Manuel Miranda because Lin Manuel Miranda, 0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:09.720 the creator of Hamilton, said that Mortal Technique used to 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:11.159 bully him when they were in school. 0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:15.280 Literally said, he used to shove him in a trash can. Yes. 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:18.920 Look, I hate to say it, immortal, I can see it. Man. 0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:22.760 Oh no, I just say big bully energy. 0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:26.719 Yeah. But he's incredible and prolific and it says stuff 0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:29.080 that makes your mind to go. Oh, I understand. 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:29.359 Now. 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:33.879 Check out his statements on the Fourth Estate, right, the 0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:37.800 oh gosh f the Middle East and gave birth to 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:41.439 a demon. Oh oh right, okay, moving on, moving on, 0:20:41.560 --> 0:20:44.919 moving on, Uh, do check out Mortal Technique again, not 0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:49.840 for everybody, but a prominent activist, and I would say 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:52.879 often endeavors to speak truth to power. 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:54.840 And that is what sidgway. 0:20:55.119 --> 0:21:00.679 That is what supporters of the incoming administration feel that 0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:06.360 the current potus has done with his more controversial pardons. 0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:06.840 Uh. 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:11.960 The Trump administration or Trump Administration version two I guess, 0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:15.240 New Trump or Trump Classic, whatever you want to call it, 0:21:15.280 --> 0:21:19.760 has officially pardoned a ton of people who were in 0:21:19.880 --> 0:21:24.560 trouble for attending the January sixth events. Not too long ago, 0:21:24.640 --> 0:21:27.879 and I remember when we we all learned the news 0:21:27.920 --> 0:21:30.640 like everybody else. So we got in our little nerd 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:35.199 studio and we we were recording when we didn't know 0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:38.480 what was going to happen to Washington, DC. 0:21:38.640 --> 0:21:42.080 Do you guys remember that moment? Yeah? Mm hmm. 0:21:43.920 --> 0:21:46.359 I wish h folks, I wish you could see my 0:21:46.400 --> 0:21:49.280 guys eyes right now, because we all just got that seven. 0:21:49.080 --> 0:21:53.000 League stare and went yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:55.000 It was one of those moments that happens often to 0:21:55.080 --> 0:21:59.359 us where we say, Okay, this is crazy, but let's 0:21:59.400 --> 0:22:05.080 do our well podcast and hope we leave the booth 0:22:05.200 --> 0:22:08.919 to find the same country that was there when we 0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:15.040 walked in. These pardons that are official, it's almost sixteen 0:22:15.119 --> 0:22:19.840 hundred people, all of whom were charged with the with 0:22:19.960 --> 0:22:24.719 active criminal activity during the riot on January sixth, in 0:22:24.800 --> 0:22:30.000 twenty twenty one of those charged, about and seventy have 0:22:30.080 --> 0:22:34.480 been convicted in about eleven hundred had already been sentenced, 0:22:34.520 --> 0:22:40.680 and the current US president said, these are hostages patriots. Yeah, 0:22:40.920 --> 0:22:43.320 full part right, hostages and patriots. 0:22:43.800 --> 0:22:46.520 Do you guys, I mean already before this I was 0:22:46.560 --> 0:22:48.399 sort of thinking, and I think I have in the past, 0:22:48.440 --> 0:22:53.600 maybe even mentioned how pardons in general have this sense 0:22:53.640 --> 0:22:58.720 to me of like eroding the legal system, eroding trust 0:22:58.800 --> 0:23:02.760 in the law, and when they become incredibly political, like 0:23:02.800 --> 0:23:05.400 the one that you're talking about, Ben, it just pushes 0:23:05.480 --> 0:23:08.480 that even further. I mean, just looking at this list 0:23:08.480 --> 0:23:10.600 of George W. Bush part and so many of them, 0:23:10.640 --> 0:23:13.199 and again not without knowing the full backstory behind them, 0:23:13.200 --> 0:23:17.280 are things like heroin trafficking, you know, the mega mega felonies, 0:23:18.320 --> 0:23:20.600 bank crimes, you know, all of this kind of stuff. 0:23:20.600 --> 0:23:22.399 It just seems like, with the wave of a hand 0:23:22.680 --> 0:23:25.720 that almost imparts the kind of infinite godlike wisdom on 0:23:25.760 --> 0:23:29.520 a president that a king would have right compromising rule 0:23:29.560 --> 0:23:31.800 of law. That's right. It just doesn't seem right to 0:23:31.840 --> 0:23:35.600 me when it's just unilaterally able to be done, especially 0:23:35.600 --> 0:23:38.040 in a case like this that so directly had an 0:23:38.040 --> 0:23:42.080 impact on the image of this president and he's kind 0:23:42.119 --> 0:23:45.359 of tweaking the narrative in his favor in an interesting way. 0:23:46.280 --> 0:23:50.560 I don't disagree with you. I think the perspective I've 0:23:50.600 --> 0:23:53.240 got on it right now is that we've talked about 0:23:53.280 --> 0:23:56.760 how imperfect our justice system is, right and how many 0:23:56.800 --> 0:23:59.360 times somebody gets caught up in it and is either 0:23:59.400 --> 0:24:03.720 wrongfully convicted or the system messes up. Right, So it's 0:24:03.720 --> 0:24:06.479 cool to have that kind of emergency lever that if 0:24:06.520 --> 0:24:08.080 you make a good enough case, or a set of 0:24:08.080 --> 0:24:10.960 attorneys makes a good enough case, a president can just say, 0:24:11.160 --> 0:24:13.760 all right, yeah, that was a screw up, let's fix that. 0:24:14.320 --> 0:24:16.359 But you're absolutely right that they can do that with 0:24:16.480 --> 0:24:19.560 their family members or somebody who did them a solid 0:24:19.600 --> 0:24:20.600 back in the seventies. 0:24:20.840 --> 0:24:24.320 Right. Yeah, And for anybody listening, well said anybody listening. 0:24:24.440 --> 0:24:28.840 Outside of the United States, most people don't get preemptive pardons. 0:24:29.240 --> 0:24:32.040 It would be kind of dope to have one. I'm 0:24:32.160 --> 0:24:34.520 just going to be super honest with all of us 0:24:34.760 --> 0:24:38.640 together tonight. There's much more to get to where we're 0:24:38.760 --> 0:24:42.160 running at time a little bit. I think the most 0:24:42.200 --> 0:24:44.560 important point I wanted to make here. The reason we're 0:24:44.600 --> 0:24:49.000 talking about this is not because we ourselves have any 0:24:49.000 --> 0:24:51.800 sort of political horse in the race. You know, like 0:24:51.880 --> 0:24:55.320 everybody else, we in this country, we live here, we 0:24:55.359 --> 0:24:59.800