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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my.

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Speaker 3: Name is Noah. They goll be ben.

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Speaker 4: We are joined as always with our super producer Dylan

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Speaker 4: the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you are you. You

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Speaker 4: are here. That makes this the stuff they don't want.

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Speaker 3: You to know.

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Speaker 4: If you are hearing our strange news program the Evening

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Speaker 4: it publishes, let us be the first to officially welcome

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Speaker 4: you to Monday, January twenty seventh. There's so much stuff

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Speaker 4: going on. A shout out to everybody who had you

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Speaker 4: know who is chasing the TikTok dragon and had to

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Speaker 4: go into some hard like some hard with and then

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Speaker 4: got it back.

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Speaker 3: It was a real roller coaster of emotions over my

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Speaker 3: house with the kids being like it's gone, everything is terrible,

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Speaker 3: it's back. It's just yeah. It was. It was fun.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and uh TikTok is obviously a huge social media platform.

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Speaker 4: It was pulled voluntarily by a TikTok's parent company due

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Speaker 4: to the ongoing discourse between the US and China, and

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Speaker 4: then it was reinstated kind of the same way that

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Speaker 4: Coca Cola did New Coke and then came out with

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Speaker 4: Coke Classic and it was an entirely different recipe.

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Speaker 3: Hmmm, well, Ben, I mean you mentioned offline, you know,

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Speaker 3: the need to maybe do a deeper dive into how

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Speaker 3: social media affects our attention span, but also what an

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Speaker 3: important potential means of opinion manipulation and control it could

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Speaker 3: be in the hands of, say, a government that was

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Speaker 3: using it in that fashion.

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Speaker 4: I'd like to shout out you met for for noticing

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Speaker 4: the historical precedence that maybe a play.

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Speaker 2: What what you mean, limiting the access people have to

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Speaker 2: certain information and then controlling the information that's fed to them,

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Speaker 2: much like in the episode we just discussed where you

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Speaker 2: take a hostage then you say, hey, you can only

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Speaker 2: read these papers that we authored.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, Orwell was right.

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Speaker 3: I hate to say it. Orwell was right though, and

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Speaker 3: a good writer for sure. And I mean, you know,

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Speaker 3: if done with enough subtlety, it could almost go unnoticed

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Speaker 3: for a while, you know, just manipulating the algorithm in

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Speaker 3: just such a way to feed just enough stories that

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Speaker 3: support a particular ideology or worldview, and then before you

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Speaker 3: know it, kid's opinions are starting to change. I mean,

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Speaker 3: and kids are smart. I'm not trying to say they're stupid,

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Speaker 3: but this stuff is very difficult to combat. With the

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Speaker 3: whole back to back video inging of TikTok, you almost

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Speaker 3: won't even notice that you're kind of being fed propaganda, and.

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Speaker 4: Social media does attack your attention span. Tune in for

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Speaker 4: our episode on that. This part of the show is

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Speaker 4: brought to you by Luigi Mangioti and the Tianamen Square

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Speaker 4: Tourist Board.

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Speaker 3: We'll be right back with our strange news and we've returned.

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Speaker 4: We'll call the first part of tonight's program if I

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Speaker 4: could get some Innio Morricone music, Dylan Pardons and commutations

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Speaker 4: wah wah wah, the Good, the Bad, and the ugly.

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Speaker 4: So first off, yeah, first off, check out our album. Secondly,

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Speaker 4: we have to talk about the difference between a pardon

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Speaker 4: and a commutation. Quite recently, we here in the still

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Speaker 4: tenuously United States saw something extraordinary. One outgoing presidential administration

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Speaker 4: released a wave of pardons and commutations. The incoming administration

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Speaker 4: also launched a thousand ships technically more than a thousand

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Speaker 4: of pardons, and this is something that needs to be examined.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 4: We know politics and ideology can be really sticky for

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Speaker 4: a lot of people. We know that the American justice

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Speaker 4: system has a ton of problems, but it is very

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Speaker 4: important to begin with this. A pardon says you're fine,

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Speaker 4: you're forgiven. A commutation says you are still guilty, but

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Speaker 4: we're going to let you go.

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Speaker 3: Are there versions of commutations where it could just be

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Speaker 3: like a reduced sentence, or is it always okay?

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Speaker 4: I thought so, Yeah, Yeah, commutation. Think of it as

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Speaker 4: a spectrum, right, and a pardon is more absolute in

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Speaker 4: that regard.

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Speaker 2: Well, and a pardon restores all of your rights as

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Speaker 2: a citizen.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And this is where we see.

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Speaker 4: The reason we're calling it the good, the bad, and

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Speaker 4: the ugly is because depending upon your personal perspective, right,

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Speaker 4: or depending upon whom you ask, some people will say

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Speaker 4: a series of pardons are awesome. Other people will say

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Speaker 4: a series of pardons or commutations are absolutely corrupt. One

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Speaker 4: of the commutations we can begin with that we see,

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Speaker 4: I believe, I hope collectively as an absolute win is

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Speaker 4: Elder Leonard Peltier has had his sentence commuted. It was

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Speaker 4: commuted in what we call an eleventh hour move by

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Speaker 4: the outgoing US presidential administration, the Biden administration. Do now,

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Speaker 4: we recently had an episode about Elder Peltier and we

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Speaker 4: we actually wrote to him as well. We haven't heard back,

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Speaker 4: and if you're listening, sir, we hope that you. We

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Speaker 4: hope that you don't take the time to write us back.

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Speaker 4: We hope that you enjoy your freedom. Do we want

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Speaker 4: to talk a little bit about Leonard Peltier who he

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Speaker 4: is just a quick recap for anybody who hasn't heard

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Speaker 4: the episode yet.

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Speaker 3: Sure. Yeah, And there's also a really great podcast out

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Speaker 3: there called Leonard that's about his story. But he is

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Speaker 3: an elder Native American tribesman who was caught up in

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Speaker 3: a gunfight with the FBI essentially, and it would seem

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Speaker 3: upon examination of the story that he was more or

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Speaker 3: less defending himself from you know, folks who are coming

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Speaker 3: into his territory aggressively. And he was of course convicted

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Speaker 3: for a murder.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and there was a whole flight from the scene

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Speaker 2: and you know, hiding out and then weapons charges and

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Speaker 2: all this other stuff. It's a it's worth your time

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Speaker 2: to listen to the episode we made on it, just

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Speaker 2: so you can see the complexity of the issue and

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Speaker 2: why maybe there are people out there who wanted him

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Speaker 2: out immediately and then other people who wanted to keep

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Speaker 2: him in indefinitely.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, put there, guys.

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Speaker 4: There was an executive grant of clemency signed by former

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Speaker 4: President Joe Biden on January nineteenth. We're recording this on Wednesday,

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Speaker 4: January second. The commutation goes into effect on February eighteenth,

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Speaker 4: and to it seems that the administration was highlighting, underlining, italicizing,

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Speaker 4: emphasizing that this was not a pardon. The former President

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Speaker 4: Joe Biden said that Peltierre is to serve the remainder

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Speaker 4: of his sentence. He's granted clemency, so he's not in jail,

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Speaker 4: serving the remainder of his sentence at home, and then

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Speaker 4: took extensive pains to reiterate that this was not a pardon.

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Speaker 4: This was not to say that he didn't do things

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Speaker 4: that US courts convicted him of doing. That's pretty controversial

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Speaker 4: on both sides of the aisle, because a lot of

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Speaker 4: law enforcement entities absolutely opposed even clemency, and we as

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Speaker 4: we record, Leonard Peltier is eighty years old. So it's

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Speaker 4: not as though he's going to be running triathlons.

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Speaker 3: Just to be clear, I mean, he's certainly paid for

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Speaker 3: what he was convicted of, you know, whatever you view

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Speaker 3: the reality of that situation, I mean, that's a very

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Speaker 3: very large portion of a man's life gone.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and let's stay with the outgoing administration for a moment, because,

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Speaker 4: as many of us doubtlessly doubtlessly know, there were a

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Speaker 4: lot of pardons issued in that proverbial eleventh hour by

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Speaker 4: the Biden administration as the Trump administration was coming into

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Speaker 4: force right or was coming into the White House. The

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Speaker 4: list here gets controversial for some people, especially folks who

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Speaker 4: are not fans of the Biden administration, because there were

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Speaker 4: a lot of family pardons. You know, there were pardons

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Speaker 4: for the former president's brothers, James and Francis, as well

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Speaker 4: as his sister, his sister in law, his brother in law.

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Speaker 4: There were some pardons for people like Gerald Lundergrand who

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Speaker 4: was convicted in twenty nineteen on campaign finance charges. The

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Speaker 4: White House in that case said he demonstrated remorse. We

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Speaker 4: don't often shout these out this media platform out, but

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Speaker 4: Newsweek if you want to check them out, they have

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Speaker 4: a pretty up to date list on the full Biden pardons.

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Speaker 4: We also see that he here's our segue. We see

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Speaker 4: that his administration collectively pardoned the members and staff of

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Speaker 4: the Select Committee investigating the events of January sixth.

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Speaker 2: Isn't that interesting? Preemptive pardons? It's so weird, Ben, did

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Speaker 2: you call out the website. I didn't even know there

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Speaker 2: was an Office of the Pardon Attorney.

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Speaker 4: There is an Office of the Pardon Attorney. Yes, that's

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Speaker 4: a true story. That's a real thing.

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Speaker 2: You could go to the Justice dot gov website. I

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Speaker 2: think it's just slash pardon and you'll get to the

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Speaker 2: Office of the Pardon Attorney and you can see that

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Speaker 2: entire list Ben is talking about. And it is fascinating

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Speaker 2: to look at the giant list over the years, just

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Speaker 2: as they happen with each president. Wow, that is a

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Speaker 2: whole that's a whole podcast series just examining the pardons.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's also I love that point, man, because

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Speaker 4: it's also a way for us to do a kind

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Speaker 4: of political dendo anology, you know, where you look at

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Speaker 4: the rings of trees like this is a great way

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Speaker 4: to see the passage of time. And this is very

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Speaker 4: much one of the few presidential superpowers, right, yeah, just

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Speaker 4: pardon people at the end, like some weird super move.

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Speaker 4: It's up there with an executive order, and technically you

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Speaker 4: put out an executive order, uh whatever you want, right,

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Speaker 4: And it's the branch. It's the executive branch. So who's

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Speaker 4: who's really going to fight you dude.

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Speaker 2: Let's go back to George Bush from early jem earlier.

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Speaker 2: Let's look at all the pardons that occurred as he

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Speaker 2: was exiting, just to look at you know.

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Speaker 3: Just to get a sense.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, which ones are your favorite?

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Speaker 4: George W. Bush pardons? You guys were awesome parties.

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Speaker 3: Jeezus, nothing, nothing's ringing a bell right off the top.

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Speaker 2: Well, I just imagine, Look, there's a speculation on my

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Speaker 2: part because that list, and I haven't thought about it

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Speaker 2: for a while, but I imagine there's some preemptive pardoning

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Speaker 2: of potential war criminality. What to say?

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Speaker 3: And I mean I was saying, you know, maybe we

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Speaker 3: often think of pardons as something that happens at the

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Speaker 3: end of an administration as well, but these can happen

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Speaker 3: anytime throughout an administration. I'm looking at the lists of

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Speaker 3: pardons granted by President George W. Bush at Justice dot gov,

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Speaker 3: and they go from December of two thousand and two

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Speaker 3: all the way to January first, two thousand and nine,

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Speaker 3: which is obviously a much longer list than the ones. No,

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Speaker 3: that's not true. November twenty fourth is a massive list. Boy,

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Speaker 3: it would take a lot of doing to kind of

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Speaker 3: dig into some of these technical William Bruce but was

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Speaker 3: pardoned for bank embezzlement ninety you.

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Speaker 4: Get in situations like obviously, also, we must say that

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Speaker 4: almost anybody is eligible for a pardon in the United States.

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Speaker 4: Henry le Lucas, prolific serial killer, was spared from the

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Speaker 4: death chamber by George W. Bush at the time a

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Speaker 4: governor who commuted his death sentence, and governor's powers are

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Speaker 4: not quite on the same level as the Potus Holy Cow.

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Speaker 3: This guy William Marcus McDonald, who was in the Air Force.

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Speaker 3: Under the US Air Force General Court Martial, he was

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Speaker 3: pardoned for a distribution of cocaine, possession of cocaine with

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Speaker 3: intent to distribute, use of cocaine, possession of cocaine, and

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Speaker 3: use of marijuana. I want to know what that backstory is.

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Speaker 4: Small time or he was the plug. There's there's always

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Speaker 4: that possibility, right, Maybe he was. Maybe he was like,

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Speaker 4: come on, man, every time you texted me, I was there.

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Speaker 3: A lot of these are drug charges.

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Speaker 2: Yes, wild this poor guy Greg Biden, he was also

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Speaker 2: in the Air Force. Biden pardoned him for wrongful use

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Speaker 2: of cocaine.

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Speaker 3: He just used him.

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Speaker 4: As opposed to the rightful use right right, which is

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Speaker 4: clearly to make eighties Bank is like, oh, make it,

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Speaker 4: You're so fine. Clearly Coca was an executive producer on

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Speaker 4: that one. Apologies to music. So the reason we're setting

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Speaker 4: this up here is because we see that pardons, commutations, clemency,

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Speaker 4: they can always be divisive. It's in fact, it's quite

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Speaker 4: rare for these actions on the executive branch to not

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Speaker 4: rub some people the wrong way, unless you're talking about

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Speaker 4: clemency for clearly racially motivated stitch ups, you know, like

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Speaker 4: civil rights activists and so on. I wanted to segue

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Speaker 4: us to the other side of the pardons because right

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Speaker 4: after Biden leaves, right after the Biden administration goes out,

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Speaker 4: the Donald Trump administration comes in. They return right ll cool, Jay,

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Speaker 4: don't call it a comeback, and they pardon a ton

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Speaker 4: of people in a way that actually pisses off some Republicans.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, anyone in particular, Ben, that you're thinking of.

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Speaker 4: Well, for the most interesting purpose on our show here

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Speaker 4: and all, I would say one thing that stood out

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Speaker 4: to us was the pardon of the creator of the

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Speaker 4: Silk Road two point zero, the creator of the dark

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Speaker 4: web market, the Silk Road, which a lot of people

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Speaker 4: used to buy their drugs, and I guess to the

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Speaker 4: earlier point, hopefully they were using them the right way.

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Speaker 4: This is a guy named Ross Olbricht, and Ross Olbricht

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Speaker 4: we were talking about this offline and we received some

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Speaker 4: messages from some of our fellow conspiracy realists about this.

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Speaker 4: We have previous episodes on this. He was convicted in

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Speaker 4: twenty fifteen in New York State here in US. In

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Speaker 4: case anybody needs to be caught up on or read

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Speaker 4: up on that accurate, Yeah, yeah, yeah, all true. He

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Speaker 4: was convicted in convicted for distribution of narcotics for conspiracies

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Speaker 4: related to money laundering. He was sentenced to life in prison,

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Speaker 4: which was, as we noted previously in twenty fifteen, fairly unusual.

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Speaker 4: Like the severity of his sentence as a first time offender,

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Speaker 4: et cetera, et cetera. It really seemed to be a

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Speaker 4: matter of, you could say, setting an example, or a

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Speaker 4: matter of people saying, hey, we're aware of cyber crime

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Speaker 4: and we're you know, we're not just some stodgy.

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Speaker 3: Old I'm almost quoting Philip Larkin.

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Speaker 4: We're not some stodgy old fools in hats and coats.

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Speaker 2: We understand speaking of stodgy old fools and no offense

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Speaker 2: guys or to myself. But ten years ago, approximately, we

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Speaker 2: talked with Alex Winter about his documentary Deep Web about

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Speaker 2: Ross Olbricht and the Silk Road and everything that was

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Speaker 2: happening then, and it was basically, we need some justice

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Speaker 2: for this guy, and feel how you feel about the

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Speaker 2: Silk Road and Bitcoin and all of that stuff that

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Speaker 2: was happening. But this guy kind of got he was

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Speaker 2: made into an example just as you said.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, agreed, and great shout out to our pal Alex.

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Speaker 4: Alex Winter is a phenomenal documentarian, one of our favorite

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Speaker 4: behind the scenes moments there.

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Speaker 3: I can't believe a decade ago.

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Speaker 2: Well, and if you don't know the name Alex Winter,

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Speaker 2: you might know Bill s Preston Esquire.

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Speaker 3: Yes, of course, Yeah, I had some adventures. They were

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Speaker 3: pretty excellent wild stallions.

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Speaker 4: So he went on to become a phenomenal documentarian and

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Speaker 4: a very kind, quite accomplished individual. My favorite behind the

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Speaker 4: scenes moment again, oh jez a decade ago, was during

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Speaker 4: the interview this guy's so erudite, he's so smart. He

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Speaker 4: pauses for a second. We hear a beep in the

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Speaker 4: background and he goes, oh yeah, guys, hold on off air,

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Speaker 4: My hot pockets are done.

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Speaker 3: That's right. Was amazing. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So this has been for proponents of Ulbricht. This has

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Speaker 4: been a long time in coming, and one of the

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Speaker 4: many pardons or moves toward clemency granted by the incoming

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Speaker 4: Trump administration was the pardon of Ross Ulbricht and this

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Speaker 4: like please check out our interview with Alex, Please check

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Speaker 4: out our earlier conversations about this, and also shout out

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Speaker 4: to everybody wrote in about the dread pirate Roberts, because

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Speaker 4: that is the alias albrid used.

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Speaker 2: When he was running this h So that ken one

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Speaker 2: more shout out, Oh please do shout out to dastardly

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Speaker 2: Dan consummate voicemailer on the show and he he hips

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Speaker 2: us to an album called Freedom by Akira the Dawn. Yes,

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Speaker 2: that features It's basically a bunch of phone calls ross

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Speaker 2: made from prison and I guess to you know Akira

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Speaker 2: or somebody associated with Akira. Then Akira the Dawn put

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Speaker 2: that to music and it's an entire, like thirty five

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Speaker 2: minute album of that and it's.

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Speaker 3: Brilliant, superb.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and thank you dastardly Dan, Thank you Agira

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Speaker 4: the Dawn. It reminds me we were saving this fro

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Speaker 4: on air. It reminds me of for any hip hop heads,

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Speaker 4: the recordings you will hear from Mumia Abu Jamal, most notably,

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Speaker 4: perhaps for backpacker nerds like us, most notably featured on

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Speaker 4: several tracks by Immortal Technique. Mortal Technique is not for everybody,

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Speaker 4: but do you check it out. We're just gonna lead

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Speaker 4: you to the edge of that rabbit hole. Go ahead

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Speaker 4: and dive in.

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Speaker 3: I would you know.

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Speaker 2: Those artists that you adore but you feel like they

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Speaker 2: would probably hate your guts. I think that's that's the

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Speaker 2: way I feel about Immortal Technique.

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Speaker 4: Like True Story, they buried the hatchet. I hate pop

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Speaker 4: culture talk, but I respect both these guys. He buried

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Speaker 4: the hatchet with Lynn Manuel Miranda because Lin Manuel Miranda,

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Speaker 4: the creator of Hamilton, said that Mortal Technique used to

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Speaker 4: bully him when they were in school.

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Speaker 3: Literally said, he used to shove him in a trash can. Yes.

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Speaker 2: Look, I hate to say it, immortal, I can see it. Man.

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Speaker 3: Oh no, I just say big bully energy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. But he's incredible and prolific and it says stuff

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Speaker 2: that makes your mind to go. Oh, I understand.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 4: Check out his statements on the Fourth Estate, right, the

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Speaker 4: oh gosh f the Middle East and gave birth to

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Speaker 4: a demon. Oh oh right, okay, moving on, moving on,

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Speaker 4: moving on, Uh, do check out Mortal Technique again, not

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Speaker 4: for everybody, but a prominent activist, and I would say

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Speaker 4: often endeavors to speak truth to power.

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Speaker 3: And that is what sidgway.

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Speaker 4: That is what supporters of the incoming administration feel that

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Speaker 4: the current potus has done with his more controversial pardons.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 4: The Trump administration or Trump Administration version two I guess,

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Speaker 4: New Trump or Trump Classic, whatever you want to call it,

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Speaker 4: has officially pardoned a ton of people who were in

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Speaker 4: trouble for attending the January sixth events. Not too long ago,

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Speaker 4: and I remember when we we all learned the news

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Speaker 4: like everybody else. So we got in our little nerd

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Speaker 4: studio and we we were recording when we didn't know

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Speaker 4: what was going to happen to Washington, DC.

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Speaker 3: Do you guys remember that moment? Yeah? Mm hmm.

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Speaker 4: I wish h folks, I wish you could see my

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Speaker 4: guys eyes right now, because we all just got that seven.

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Speaker 3: League stare and went yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 4: It was one of those moments that happens often to

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Speaker 4: us where we say, Okay, this is crazy, but let's

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Speaker 4: do our well podcast and hope we leave the booth

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Speaker 4: to find the same country that was there when we

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Speaker 4: walked in. These pardons that are official, it's almost sixteen

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Speaker 4: hundred people, all of whom were charged with the with

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Speaker 4: active criminal activity during the riot on January sixth, in

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty one of those charged, about and seventy have

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Speaker 4: been convicted in about eleven hundred had already been sentenced,

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Speaker 4: and the current US president said, these are hostages patriots. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: full part right, hostages and patriots.

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Speaker 3: Do you guys, I mean already before this I was

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Speaker 3: sort of thinking, and I think I have in the past,

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Speaker 3: maybe even mentioned how pardons in general have this sense

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Speaker 3: to me of like eroding the legal system, eroding trust

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Speaker 3: in the law, and when they become incredibly political, like

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Speaker 3: the one that you're talking about, Ben, it just pushes

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Speaker 3: that even further. I mean, just looking at this list

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Speaker 3: of George W. Bush part and so many of them,

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Speaker 3: and again not without knowing the full backstory behind them,

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Speaker 3: are things like heroin trafficking, you know, the mega mega felonies,

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Speaker 3: bank crimes, you know, all of this kind of stuff.

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Speaker 3: It just seems like, with the wave of a hand

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Speaker 3: that almost imparts the kind of infinite godlike wisdom on

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Speaker 3: a president that a king would have right compromising rule

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Speaker 3: of law. That's right. It just doesn't seem right to

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Speaker 3: me when it's just unilaterally able to be done, especially

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Speaker 3: in a case like this that so directly had an

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Speaker 3: impact on the image of this president and he's kind

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Speaker 3: of tweaking the narrative in his favor in an interesting way.

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Speaker 2: I don't disagree with you. I think the perspective I've

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Speaker 2: got on it right now is that we've talked about

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Speaker 2: how imperfect our justice system is, right and how many

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Speaker 2: times somebody gets caught up in it and is either

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Speaker 2: wrongfully convicted or the system messes up. Right, So it's

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Speaker 2: cool to have that kind of emergency lever that if

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Speaker 2: you make a good enough case, or a set of

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Speaker 2: attorneys makes a good enough case, a president can just say,

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Speaker 2: all right, yeah, that was a screw up, let's fix that.

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Speaker 2: But you're absolutely right that they can do that with

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Speaker 2: their family members or somebody who did them a solid

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Speaker 2: back in the seventies.

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Speaker 4: Right. Yeah, And for anybody listening, well said anybody listening.

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Speaker 4: Outside of the United States, most people don't get preemptive pardons.

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Speaker 4: It would be kind of dope to have one. I'm

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Speaker 4: just going to be super honest with all of us

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Speaker 4: together tonight. There's much more to get to where we're

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Speaker 4: running at time a little bit. I think the most

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Speaker 4: important point I wanted to make here. The reason we're

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Speaker 4: talking about this is not because we ourselves have any

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Speaker 4: sort of political horse in the race. You know, like

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Speaker 4: everybody else, we in this country, we live here, we

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Speaker 4: want things to go. Well, we're fans of democracy, you

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Speaker 4: know what I mean. So so for us, the the

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Speaker 4: institutional power of a pardon or clemency is a very

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Speaker 4: fascinating process. It's it's weird power to have, and at

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Speaker 4: times it's definitely a necessary power to wield, But just

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Speaker 4: like perhaps owning a gun or waving machete, the power

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Speaker 4: itself has no moral compulsion. It's really up to the

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Speaker 4: person who is wielding the weapon.

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Speaker 3: Yep, that was mad. That's literally wielding in the checks

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Speaker 3: out right now, cold trust cold trust it. But I mean, like,

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Speaker 3: you know, I think whatever your political persuasion is, I

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Speaker 3: would think that the actions of some of those Jan

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Speaker 3: sixth rioters would be abhorrent to you. You know, if

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Speaker 3: you do believe in the system that we have in

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Speaker 3: this democracy. It just seems like that's just not really

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Speaker 3: how these things are supposed to be done. You know,

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Speaker 3: you're supposed to exercise your power with your vote and

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Speaker 3: with the civic engagement, not with storming a government building

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Speaker 3: and holding political appointees and elected officials hostage more or

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Speaker 3: less in using a reign of terror. But then I

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Speaker 3: guess people in supportive becauld say it's a revolution.

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Speaker 4: So that's the tricky part, right, because this country was

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Speaker 4: founded on a conspiracy, per exactly as it was. That

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Speaker 4: is the native language I would argue of the American experiment,

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Speaker 4: and that's what I want to point out here, and

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Speaker 4: I love the set up there to continue what we're saying.

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Speaker 4: We're talking about this because opponents on either side of

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Speaker 4: any of these pardons or these moves for clemency, they

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Speaker 4: see it as conspiracy. Now, several of the people in

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Speaker 4: the involved in the January sixth events were convicted of

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Speaker 4: seditious conspiracy, which is as hardcore as it sounds.

432
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 3: It's like eight, it's.

433
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,400
Speaker 4: Not you know, forgetting to wear a seat belt, it's

434
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 4: it's the bad stuff. And so this overthrow right right,

435
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 4: this brings yes, edition, this brings us to a moment,

436
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 4: and we're all here together in this moment, and we

437
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 4: want to hear from you. We'd also love for God,

438
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 4: I'd love for people to check out what's going on

439
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,639
Speaker 4: in the Republic of Korea or South Korea right now.

440
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,679
Speaker 4: You think January sixth was something here, check out the

441
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:34,679
Speaker 4: events in Korea quite recently, which we briefly alluded to.

442
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 4: But yeah, give us your opinions, write to us, call us,

443
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 4: we'll tell you how to get in touch. At the end,

444
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 4: let us know if you ever got a preemptive pardon

445
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 4: and what that lets you do, Like if you get

446
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 4: a preemptive pardon. We should do an episode on diplomatic

447
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:55,199
Speaker 4: immunity and preemptive partons because I love the idea that

448
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 4: if you were if you were a consular or diplomatic

449
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 4: staff for the right country, you basically never pay for

450
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 4: parking tickets in the United States. That's a weird specific superpower.

451
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 3: And you get a cool what is it called, like

452
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 3: a pouch, You get the diplomatic pouches.

453
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 4: That's it until North Korea ruined it for everybody man.

454
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 3: And this is literally it is like what a briefcase

455
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 3: that is not allowed to be searched more or less?

456
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, because every all the people in power, in

457
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 4: state power collectively said let's keep our secrets, and then

458
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 4: North Korea used it to smuggle hard drugs.

459
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 3: EO, bad on you, North Korea. That's really crazy considering

460
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 3: how hard they are on drug use and drug trafficking.

461
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 3: A friend of mine actually just got detained coming out

462
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 3: of Korea because he had a weed vape on him

463
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 3: and he was basically in Korean weed jail for three

464
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 3: days and was only released right after the president was impeached.

465
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 3: I don't know. I was going to ask you guys,

466
00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 3: do you think that's sort of a clearing the air

467
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 3: kind of thing, where like things are tenuous, let's maybe

468
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 3: let some of these potential political prisoners go because they

469
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 3: can be used that way. You know what, We've seen

470
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 3: it before them.

471
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 4: I shout out to Dennis Rodman or tip of the

472
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 4: cap to Dennis, tip of the machete. I'll keep it brief,

473
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 4: and I want to talk too much about this on air,

474
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 4: but for anybody who's been in a dicey situation, you

475
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 4: are correct. No, there are often larger mechanics at play,

476
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 4: and people can be used as leverage. The big takeaway,

477
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 4: since we're a family show, is if you are going

478
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 4: to a country that tells you not to take certain

479
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 4: things there, don't don't just beat me here, Dylan, just

480
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 4: believe them, cool man. Don't think you can roll for

481
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 4: charisma on that one. So again, I know I've run

482
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 4: a little long hair. Really appreciate this, and in folks,

483
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 4: we are we are again, cannot emphasize this enough. We

484
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 4: are here with you. We don't have any insider info

485
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,959
Speaker 4: on what happens next. We know that a lot of

486
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 4: people are extremely sensitive to what's going on now. A

487
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 4: lot of people feel that their existence is threatened. A

488
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 4: lot of people feel that there is some great reckoning

489
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 4: afoot right, and we're not here to pretend democracy is perfect.

490
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 4: And I think that's one of the biggest takeaways. The

491
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 4: number one is that we want to hear from you.

492
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 3: And you know, and we care about all of you,

493
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 3: all of our conspiracy realists, all of our wonderful listeners,

494
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 3: and we're not here to force anything down your throat

495
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:33,719
Speaker 3: or tell you what to believe or tell you how

496
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 3: to feel. We're just trying to navigate this world in

497
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 3: this political climate with empathy and open mindedness and doing

498
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 3: the best we can, just like everybody else.

499
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 4: So as yeah well said so again, I just want

500
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 4: to emphasize and end with this. Tell us what you

501
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 4: believe the conspiracies may be. We are here with you.

502
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,959
Speaker 4: We are grateful for your time. We're going to pause

503
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 4: for a word from our sponsors, and then we'll return

504
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 4: and I'm just gonna go to Justice dot Gov real

505
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 4: quick and check out if I got pardon too.

506
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 3: And we have returned with another piece of strange. This

507
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 3: one's been brewing for a hot minute, and I'm really

508
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 3: excited to talk about this with both of you. But

509
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 3: Matt maybe you specifically because of your I would argue

510
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 3: slightly above average gamer status. You know, Ben, I think

511
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 3: you're up there too. Certainly, I would consider myself a

512
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 3: fair weather gamer a best I enjoy playing video games.

513
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,959
Speaker 3: I am not particularly great at any of them. I

514
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 3: do sometimes get flum mixed with games like elden Ring.

515
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 3: I never finished that because it just got a little

516
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 3: too hard for me and I just didn't have time

517
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 3: to get good. Maybe I'll pick it back up again.

518
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 3: But here's the thing. I own my fair weather gamer status.

519
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 3: I would never deign to attempt to compete in any

520
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 3: kind of elite circles or you know, leaderboards or anything

521
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 3: like that. And that's something and it's very important to

522
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 3: a lot of people in the gaming community, obviously with

523
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 3: Twitch streaming, and it's incredibly competitive and stats are so trackable,

524
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 3: and you know, there are people that really want to

525
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 3: be on top. But to be on top in any

526
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 3: of these like elite games like Diablo for for example,

527
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,479
Speaker 3: or things like elden Ring, a game called Path of

528
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 3: Exile two, it takes a lot of effort, of grinding,

529
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 3: of sleepless nights of energy drinks to even crack the

530
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 3: top one hundred in games like this, and someone who

531
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 3: has made no secrets about what they describe as there.

532
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 3: You know, in so many words, elite gamer status is

533
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 3: Elon Musk, and he has long been a fan of

534
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 3: video games, as far back as I believe Quake, some

535
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 3: of the early ID software games he was one of these,

536
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 3: even described in gamer communities as being an OG player,

537
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 3: and some of those early kind of online and shooter

538
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 3: games that sort of laid the groundwork for some of

539
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 3: these way way more elaborately trackable and competitive kind of

540
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 3: massive online games. In the controversy around Elon Musk is

541
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 3: not limited to gaming, of course, But I just think

542
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 3: this is a fun little microcosm of some of the

543
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 3: larger controversy surrounding him, which maybe is something surrounding his credibility.

544
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 3: Is this a person that is honest? Is this a

545
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 3: person that is telling the truth about their ideas, their

546
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 3: provenance of their ideas. You know, we know he's got

547
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 3: a history of kind of taking credit for other people's

548
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 3: ideas as far back as PayPal, and also with Tesla,

549
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 3: he fought really really hard to be considered I believe,

550
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 3: a co creator of Tesla. But the reality seems to

551
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 3: be that he co opted that brand by purchasing it

552
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 3: and then tried to kind of pass off some of

553
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 3: those ideas as his own. Well, it seems like the

554
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 3: blinders are off, or the veil has been lifted on

555
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 3: Elon's elite gaming status. This is where I hope you

556
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 3: can you guys can maybe help me make sense of

557
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 3: some of this stuff. As recently as a December of

558
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 3: twenty twenty four, I don't remember the exact I think

559
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 3: there was a video that was published a stream of

560
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 3: him playing this game Path of Exile too on the

561
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 3: seventeenth of December. Some kind of eagle eyed viewers of

562
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 3: this stream noticed there were a few things that were

563
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,399
Speaker 3: a little suspicious about Elon's gaming activity, especially for someone

564
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 3: that I believe was level ninety six, which I think

565
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 3: is pretty pretty insanely high. That's great time for sure. Well, yeah,

566
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 3: it's my understanding that once you get past a certain

567
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 3: point of leveling up in that game, as is the

568
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 3: case in games like elden Ring, you have to collect

569
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 3: so much more XP to get to the next level.

570
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,760
Speaker 3: Each level beyond that becomes exponentially harder to crack.

571
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 2: So in a lot of hard a lot of games

572
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 2: that have a long end game, like a long path

573
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 2: to an endgame, will institute other things where your level

574
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 2: gets capped. But then there's all kinds of other perks

575
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 2: that get unlocked each time your quote level and stuff,

576
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 2: and it becomes extremely, as you said, time consuming to

577
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 2: do that stuff. And I think that's maybe the most

578
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,240
Speaker 2: important thing to this story, the time it takes, yeah

579
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 2: to get specific gear or to you know, level up

580
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 2: enough times.

581
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like long division or good editing. There's not

582
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,479
Speaker 4: really a shortcut to it, you know what I mean.

583
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 4: And that's that's the question, because I love that we're

584
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 4: bringing this up. I remember distinctly looking at this and thinking,

585
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 4: even as guys never played Path of EXL two or whatever,

586
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 4: I remember thinking.

587
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 3: How does he find the time?

588
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 4: And I wasn't trying to be a jerk with that question.

589
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 4: I was just I was thinking of, you know, the

590
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 4: twenty four hours that people have in a day, right,

591
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 4: and the amount required for you know, sleep or like

592
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 4: pooping or eating or you know the basics.

593
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 3: So I mean, and like our podcast world, you know,

594
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 3: we end up tied up with more meetings than we

595
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 3: would like just in the course of a day. Well,

596
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 3: you know, I love this, it results of me very

597
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:14,319
Speaker 3: but we don't run three of the world's top technology

598
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 3: companies that with with shareholders, and I can't imagine the

599
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 3: amount of stuff that someone like Elon Musk gets pulled

600
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 3: into and to do, uh, the amount of gameplay that

601
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 3: would be required to crack this level. I believe he

602
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 3: claims he has the number and fifty nine hardcore character

603
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 3: is named Kekius Maximus, and he also has several other

604
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 3: hardcore characters who have died. This is a game mode,

605
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 3: by the way, that is permanent death. Matt, can you

606
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 3: explain that a little bit?

607
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,319
Speaker 2: Maybe permanent death you're talking about hardcore characters, like.

608
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 3: That's right, yeah, yeah, yeah exactly. So that means the

609
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 3: character is toast period. What you've built, what you put

610
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 3: into it, it's all gone if you die.

611
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, it's It's the big old gamble for somebody

612
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 2: who really likes to gamble with their life, like literally their.

613
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 4: Life, and some game games would not allow you to

614
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:03,439
Speaker 4: opt out of it. I don't know if you guys

615
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 4: ever played the Captain Planet game geez it was famously

616
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,959
Speaker 4: it was set to perma death. Like a man harder

617
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:16,400
Speaker 4: than Echo, the dolphin harder and yeah, yeah, I gut

618
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 4: the dolphin was pretty, but boy, that was a slog.

619
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 3: Some of the things that some of these eagle eyed

620
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 3: viewers of the of the stream noticed were things like this,

621
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:25,319
Speaker 3: he didn't seem to know this is all collected, by

622
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 3: the way, and a great post on Reddit documenting the

623
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 3: saga of Elon Musk's account.

624
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 4: Or Adrian Dittman. That's another guy we should mention.

625
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 3: Isn't that his alter ego? Yeah, I'm walking down the

626
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 3: street today where he's like kind of defends himself from

627
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 3: this this ghost account.

628
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:43,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's kind of like when certain politicians would call

629
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 4: radio shows and pretend to be someone different and talk

630
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 4: about how great they are.

631
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,760
Speaker 3: Well, we had an instance of Adrian Dittman defending something

632
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 3: that Elon posted on x and he kind of was

633
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 3: so frustrated. I think that he forgot to change his voice.

634
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 3: That happened recently. That's not in the gaming realm, but

635
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 3: definitely No, No, it's about the credibility, Ben, It's your

636
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 3: one hundred percent correct. It is about the credibility. And

637
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 3: we're going to get further into this. So one thing

638
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 3: that was noticed was he doesn't seem to know how

639
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 3: to use a mana flask when out of Mana. Then

640
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 3: he struggled with it for like over ten seconds, just

641
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 3: like clicking around or whatever. He doesn't seem to understand

642
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:18,399
Speaker 3: that you can only run connected at liss nodes. These

643
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,919
Speaker 3: are maps in the game. I believe in a Path

644
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 3: of Exile one they were called maps, but in the

645
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 3: second one they're actually called waste stones or something like that,

646
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 3: and they have to I don't know exactly how the

647
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 3: game mechanic works, but they have to be connected in

648
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 3: order to access them. And so the characters that he's

649
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 3: playing and demonstrating are at levels that would imply that

650
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,839
Speaker 3: he had run hundreds, if not thousands of these atless nodes.

651
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:45,360
Speaker 3: So clicking around kind of dumbfoundedly as he did in

652
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 3: the stream is a bit of a red flag. You

653
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 3: guys might understand why this is a red flag. He

654
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 3: picks up items by dragging them into his inventory manually.

655
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 3: I imagine there's a shortcut that more seasoned gamers would use,

656
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 3: especially for playing on a PC of hot key or

657
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 3: you know, a shift click or something like that. But

658
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 3: apparently he's just clicking and dragging them into his inventory.

659
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 3: He seemingly struggles to understand why he cannot pick up

660
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 3: an item win his inventory is full. I mean, I'm

661
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,839
Speaker 3: absolute fair weather gamer. I know stuff like that. I

662
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 3: was just telling you guys, like a game like Balder's

663
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,399
Speaker 3: Gate seems a little above my pay grade, and these

664
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 3: top down kind of games like this, more D and

665
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 3: D based, I find a little bit confounding, But I

666
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 3: understand that mechanic. He had this comment where he there

667
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 3: were like, I guess four you know, on certain items.

668
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 3: I guess there are I guess buffs that you can install.

669
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,320
Speaker 3: You've got like slots for them, maybe on a sword,

670
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 3: like for certain stones, maybe they give it special powers.

671
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:46,360
Speaker 3: Apparently on certain maps it's got these slots for ways

672
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 3: of buffing it in some way. But he referred to

673
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 3: them as the four things map things, as opposed to

674
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 3: like what they actually are, which is something like what

675
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 3: I would do. He's always making comments about how his

676
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:03,319
Speaker 3: gear isn't good because it's low level. But what he

677
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 3: doesn't seem to realize that most of the hardcore players

678
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 3: of this game know is that a low level item

679
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 3: or a low required level item can be better than

680
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 3: a legendary piece of gear. Oftentimes you just have to

681
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 3: know and you have to use it in practice. When

682
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 3: he's making these comments about, oh, it's only level sixty five,

683
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 3: et cetera, he seems to not understand the difference between

684
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:27,319
Speaker 3: item level and required level. I'll just give you one

685
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 3: more and then we can kind of move on to

686
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 3: the twist in the story. The account he is on

687
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:35,439
Speaker 3: puts their maps in a tab called Elon's Maps, So

688
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 3: there's an implication here that this is a shared account,

689
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 3: which is what is in question here, isau there's a

690
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 3: thing called account boosting, or basically you pay someone to

691
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:49,720
Speaker 3: run your account for you, because the level of his character,

692
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:53,280
Speaker 3: the type of elite gear that he has, would require

693
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 3: thousands and thousands of hours of play, and to your point, Ben,

694
00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:01,399
Speaker 3: where does he find the time. Recently, an article came

695
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 3: out where, due to a leaked I guess or published

696
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:12,399
Speaker 3: screenshot of some DMS between zach Asman gold Hoyt and

697
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 3: Elon Musk, he has essentially admitted to doing just that,

698
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:22,439
Speaker 3: to paying to have his account boosted. This revelation came,

699
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 3: by the way, this is a great article from Kotaku

700
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 3: by Ethan Gatch. I'm just going to quote from him

701
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 3: here for a second. That revelation came in DMS, he

702
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 3: seemingly exchanged with YouTuber my mistake, it was Nico Rex,

703
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:35,839
Speaker 3: which is another gaming YouTuber, and which were subsequently shared

704
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 3: in a video published on January eighteenth titled addressing All

705
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:41,240
Speaker 3: the Elon mus Drama in Poe two with Elon Musk.

706
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 3: Apparently he was given permission to publish these screenshots. During

707
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 3: the conversations, the Tesla CEO admitted to using account boosting

708
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 3: to compete in Path of Exile two and Diablo four's endgame,

709
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 3: but said there was nothing to apologize for because everyone

710
00:41:55,920 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 3: is doing it. The question and answer session kind of

711
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 3: went like this, Yeah, have you level boosted, had someone

712
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 3: else's play your accounts and or purchased gear resources for

713
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:08,839
Speaker 3: POE two and Diablo four. Nico Rex asked to wish

714
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 3: Musk responded with a one hundred percent emoji before adding

715
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 3: that it is impossible to beat the players in Asia

716
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 3: if you don't as they do. So when kind of

717
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 3: pressed a little bit further as to his honesty around this,

718
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:31,319
Speaker 3: he kind of rebuffed this by saying that he never

719
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:36,839
Speaker 3: intended or you know, claimed that his top accounts were

720
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 3: only played by him. But you know, in conversations that

721
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:43,280
Speaker 3: he's had on podcasts like Joe Rogan and other places,

722
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:47,879
Speaker 3: he's consistently bragged about this elite gaming status and being

723
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:52,399
Speaker 3: a literal world class gamer according to him. So it's

724
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 3: a little hard to take that at face value because

725
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 3: he really does seem like he's intended and wanted to

726
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:01,319
Speaker 3: be seen as part part of this community and as

727
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 3: an elite player in this community. So it's myth building

728
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:05,239
Speaker 3: right like that.

729
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 4: That's the big question, you know, part of the part

730
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 4: of the continuing struggle that a lot of very powerful

731
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 4: people have, and he is the world's currently documented most

732
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:22,320
Speaker 4: wealthy dude. The struggle that a lot of powerful people

733
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:27,240
Speaker 4: have is do I accumulate and exercise my powers behind

734
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 4: the scene? Do I use my influence to become a

735
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 4: public figure? And what we're seeing from critics of Musk

736
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 4: pretty often is the idea that he has aired on

737
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:43,919
Speaker 4: the side of being a public figure more so than

738
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:48,880
Speaker 4: being you know, like, for instance, I'll be honest, a

739
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 4: lot of the most powerful entities I have met don't

740
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:56,399
Speaker 4: have social media. Why would you you know what I mean,

741
00:43:56,520 --> 00:44:00,319
Speaker 4: why would you open that door? So there is that,

742
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:06,840
Speaker 4: I guess egoistic, maybe ego driven struggle within oneself. And

743
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 4: the thing is, I love that you're pointing out the

744
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 4: conversations on the podcasting because it reminds me of the

745
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 4: old Uh, what's the old narcissist edict? It's what is

746
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 4: the narcissist prayer? That didn't happen? And if it did,

747
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 4: it wasn't that bad. AKA, everyone does it, And if

748
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 4: it was, then it's not a big deal. And if

749
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 4: it is, it's not my fault. And if it was,

750
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 4: I didn't mean it, and if I did, you deserved it.

751
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:36,560
Speaker 4: So really similar to the stages of grief where we're

752
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 4: seeing this play out in real time, and gosh, I hope.

753
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 4: I mean, of all things, you guys, video games are

754
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 4: supposed to be fun.

755
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,319
Speaker 3: And I think that's the point too, is of all

756
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:54,839
Speaker 3: things to be dishonest about video games seems like such

757
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 3: a low stakes thing to risk your reputation on and

758
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 3: your credibility one lying about. And I guess the question

759
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 3: that becomes, if you're that insecure that you're gonna lie

760
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:08,959
Speaker 3: about that, what else are you lying about? Right? The implication? Yeah,

761
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 3: And I just want to just you know, not to

762
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:13,319
Speaker 3: throw him entirely under the bus here. I'm just kind

763
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 3: of reporting what's being said. But his ex wife or

764
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 3: ex partner, Grimes, the very interesting musician artist, did kind

765
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:24,360
Speaker 3: of vouch for him on x saying, just for my

766
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:26,399
Speaker 3: personal pride, I would like to state that the father

767
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 3: of my children was the first American druid in Diablo

768
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 3: to clear Abatoar of ze and ended that season as

769
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:35,319
Speaker 3: best in the USA. He was also ranking in Polytopia

770
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 3: and beat Felix himself at the game. Don't know who

771
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 3: that guy is. I did observe these things with my

772
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:42,319
Speaker 3: own eyes. There are other witnesses who can verify this.

773
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 3: That is all so. I mean, the guy's clearly no

774
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 3: sloutshit gaming, but it does seem like to get to

775
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,359
Speaker 3: the levels that he's purporting to have done on his own,

776
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 3: it would seem, you know, requires a little outside help

777
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 3: and investment, And now he's more or less acknowledged that

778
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 3: he's done that. I don't know, take that for what

779
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 3: it's worth, y'all, unless you think we are not going

780
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 3: to mention the interesting hand signal that's being much debated

781
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:12,839
Speaker 3: that he did at the inauguration where he had that Yeah, yeah, well,

782
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 3: I'm just teasing the discussion because now it's not the

783
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 3: time to fully get into that. Let's call it a salute.

784
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 3: We're going to talk about that in this week's Listener

785
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:23,439
Speaker 3: Mail episode. And just to wrap this up real quick, guys,

786
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 3: I don't want to do another story because I don't

787
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 3: have enough time, I don't think, but I did find

788
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 3: a story about some potential arsonists that were detained, that

789
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 3: were arrested for trying to infiltrate the evacuation zones in

790
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 3: the Pacific Palisades area of California of Los Angeles where

791
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 3: these horrific fires took place. They actually had a fake

792
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 3: fire truck and we're dressed in fire gear and we're

793
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 3: apparently it's unclear there were others that were trying to

794
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 3: do this in order to loot houses because these evacuation

795
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 3: zones are off limits for anyone except fire personnel. And

796
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 3: these folks were caught doing this and have been arrested,

797
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 3: and that is not indicated that they were intending to

798
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:10,880
Speaker 3: do arson. But one of the people that was detained,

799
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 3: a man by the name of Dustin Nell, had previously

800
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:20,240
Speaker 3: been convicted for crimes in Oregon involving arson at golf courses.

801
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:23,880
Speaker 3: I was described as a setting off an explosion and

802
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 3: damaging water infrastructure as well as you know some of

803
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 3: the activities at this golf course. I wanted to bring

804
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:34,360
Speaker 3: this up also because I this is a pretty wild

805
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 3: sounding story. We've been hearing a lot of wild sounding

806
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 3: stories that are coming out of these fires. And we

807
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 3: talked a lot when we discussed this last about how

808
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 3: hard it is to parse out the real stories from

809
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 3: the fake stories, the real images from the AI generated images.

810
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 3: It's getting harder and harder, and I absolutely fell victim

811
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:57,240
Speaker 3: to this very thing, and a very helpful listener wrote

812
00:47:57,239 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 3: in to set me straight. I'm just going to read

813
00:47:59,920 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 3: that real quick from a listener named David. Hi, guys,

814
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:04,719
Speaker 3: I just started listening to your January twentieth episode and

815
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:06,320
Speaker 3: I had to stop it at the twenty five minute

816
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:08,880
Speaker 3: mark because it was said that firefighters were using women's

817
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 3: purses to carry water. This is absolutely false and part

818
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:14,719
Speaker 3: of the propaganda campaign against California and the firefighters there.

819
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 3: The bags you see are collapsible buckets that are designed

820
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 3: to carry water that's their specific use, and are absolutely

821
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 3: not women's purses. Check on things like this before you

822
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 3: blindly report things you see online, you can use this

823
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:27,879
Speaker 3: on air, David, and I wrote back to David telling

824
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 3: me these absolutely corrects and that we hear on the

825
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 3: show are not perfect and are just as susceptible to

826
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 3: some of this kind of stuff as everyone else. And

827
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:38,920
Speaker 3: I very much apologize for reporting something like that that

828
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 3: was not true. It is a video of these firefighters

829
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:46,760
Speaker 3: using what do appear to be kind of large handled

830
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 3: handbag type things in the commentary, and what I saw

831
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 3: was reporting it as such that they were women's handbags,

832
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 3: and it was meant to be a ding against the

833
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 3: preparedness of the Los Angeles County Fire Department, and that

834
00:48:57,760 --> 00:48:59,839
Speaker 3: absolutely was not the case here. So I just want

835
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:03,359
Speaker 3: to openly apologize for getting that wrong and openly say

836
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 3: that I will do better and strive to parse out

837
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:08,360
Speaker 3: some of this stuff, but also acknowledge how tricky it

838
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 3: can be. Yeah, yeah, well said.

839
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:14,320
Speaker 4: We appreciate you there, Dave, because one of the things

840
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 4: one of the big takeaways from our conversation there previously

841
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 4: was was about exercising critical thought, you know, and and

842
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:27,279
Speaker 4: we've talked about before. It's it's devilishly difficult to suss out,

843
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 4: you know, agenda's origin point ulterior motivations with some things

844
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 4: like we oh, gosh, noll what else. We also mentioned,

845
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 4: you know, the way people might be fleeing from a

846
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:47,440
Speaker 4: home burning down, carrying just what they Yeah, so this

847
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:51,359
Speaker 4: is again where you're with you. This is a collective

848
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 4: I sometimes refer to human existence as the world's longest

849
00:49:55,520 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 4: non consensual game of improv Uh. So we're we're covering this.

850
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 4: And one thing I really appreciated you pointing out there

851
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 4: in our previous exploration on a Strange News program was,

852
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:11,880
Speaker 4: you know, we are like the rest of the world

853
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:13,320
Speaker 4: exercise and empathy.

854
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:14,360
Speaker 3: We're very concerned.

855
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 4: We have friends, we have family, we have loved ones,

856
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 4: just like everybody else out there in California fighting the fires.

857
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:24,759
Speaker 3: That's right, Yeah, well said Ben, And yeah, I know

858
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:26,320
Speaker 3: this ran long. I think we've got a lot on

859
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:28,319
Speaker 3: our minds today, and we've had a little bit of

860
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 3: a break, so getting back together after a little bit

861
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 3: of downtime, We've got a lot to say, and there's

862
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:34,239
Speaker 3: a lot going on in the world. So we are

863
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 3: going to take a little break here and then come

864
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:43,840
Speaker 3: back with our last segment of Strange News for today's episode.

865
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:48,360
Speaker 2: And we've returned guys, I'm gonna start with a little quotation.

866
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 2: It is long, but bear with me because I think

867
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:55,959
Speaker 2: it is worth bearing. Gentlemen, you remember a guy named

868
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:58,600
Speaker 2: Bernie Sanders AAA, the Senator from Vermont.

869
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, a king of Mitten's sick mien game I

870
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 3: was about iconic. Remember the memes with that one with

871
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 3: his cross leg at pose and his cherry brought from home.

872
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:14,080
Speaker 4: I mean he did some other stuff, sure, but this

873
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 4: is not a quotation from Bernie about Mittens, is it.

874
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:20,719
Speaker 3: No, it is not.

875
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 2: So I'm bringing you this quote because I had a

876
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 2: moment sitting in my parents' basement while we were having

877
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:30,920
Speaker 2: some family time on MLK Day, and I happened to

878
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:34,920
Speaker 2: put on the inauguration of President Donald Trump, and I

879
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 2: was struck by an image of a row, a singular

880
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:42,520
Speaker 2: row of human beings that were sitting behind the president

881
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 2: and where the immediately behind where everything was taking place.

882
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:50,759
Speaker 2: And I saw that image, I thought back to some

883
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 2: stuff that i'd heard from the Senator from Vermont, and

884
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 2: it just it kind of crystallized in a moment, and

885
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:57,959
Speaker 2: it has to do with everything we've been talking about

886
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:00,920
Speaker 2: on this episode so far. So I'm going to read

887
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:03,440
Speaker 2: this here we go. This is Senator Sanders talking at

888
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:07,400
Speaker 2: the Brookings Institution, a think tank you should definitely look into.

889
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 2: This is what he had to say in twenty fifteen.

890
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 3: Quote.

891
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:14,799
Speaker 2: We are moving rapidly away from our democratic heritage into

892
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 2: an oligarchic form of society, where today we are experiencing

893
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:21,840
Speaker 2: a government of the billionaires, by the billionaires, and for

894
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 2: the billionaires. Billionaire families are now able to spend hundreds

895
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:28,560
Speaker 2: and hundreds of millions of dollars to purchase the candidates

896
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 2: of their choice. The billionaire class now owns the economy,

897
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:34,480
Speaker 2: and they're working day and night to make certain that

898
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:38,440
Speaker 2: they own the United States government. I know people are

899
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:40,760
Speaker 2: not comfortable when I say this. This is still the quote,

900
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 2: but I want you to take a hard look at

901
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 2: what's going on, take a deep breath, and you tell

902
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:47,920
Speaker 2: me whether or not we're looking at a democracy or

903
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:51,400
Speaker 2: whether we're looking at an oligarchy. When you have multiple

904
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:54,879
Speaker 2: single families that's modified a little bit, that have more

905
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:58,400
Speaker 2: political power than the Democratic Party than the Republican Party,

906
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 2: families that can spend unlimited sums of money not only

907
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:04,319
Speaker 2: on campaigns but on think tanks like the one that

908
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:07,680
Speaker 2: he's speaking to and the media. I worry very very

909
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:10,440
Speaker 2: much about the future of democracy in this country.

910
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:11,400
Speaker 3: Now.

911
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 2: The reason why that quote was so prescient is because

912
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 2: if you looked at that row of human beings standing

913
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:22,280
Speaker 2: behind a president who is being inaugurated, you saw nine

914
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 2: hundred billion dollars worth of money represented in four families. Yeah,

915
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:32,799
Speaker 2: nine hundred billion dollars essentially in four individuals. But in

916
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 2: the families, you know the family structures of those individuals,

917
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:40,560
Speaker 2: and that is not something that is uncommon for all presidents.

918
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:44,040
Speaker 2: In every inauguration, there are the power players, right, That's

919
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:46,719
Speaker 2: how you get a seat there at the inauguration. You

920
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:48,560
Speaker 2: spent either a lot of money or you got a

921
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:49,960
Speaker 2: lot of power or both.

922
00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:54,480
Speaker 3: Well, and in past, the previous Trump administration, a lot

923
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:56,960
Speaker 3: of these folks were distancing themselves, and it seems like

924
00:53:57,040 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 3: that narrative has shifted wildly. Well.

925
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:02,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, and again, no matter how you feel about President Trump,

926
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 2: no matter how you feel about any of the political

927
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:11,360
Speaker 2: stuff surrounding it, the understanding that those folks, the money,

928
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 2: the real real money, is just sitting there kind of

929
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:18,480
Speaker 2: basking in the glory of the power that you know,

930
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 2: a presidential administration represents and kissing.

931
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:25,319
Speaker 4: The ring, which is a or presenting their rings to

932
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:25,880
Speaker 4: be kissed.

933
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 3: Thank you.

934
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:30,480
Speaker 4: That's right, that's part of it, because it's interesting. I'd

935
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:33,360
Speaker 4: love that we're bringing this up, Matt. One of the

936
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 4: great tech giants from the US who did not show

937
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:40,960
Speaker 4: up was Bill Gates. And and I'm bringing that into

938
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 4: our conversation here at the end of strange news to

939
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:49,359
Speaker 4: to just ask, uh, how how much higher would that

940
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:53,720
Speaker 4: accreational total value have been if old Bill rolled through?

941
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:56,279
Speaker 3: You know what I mean? What about Warren Buffett? He's

942
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:58,759
Speaker 3: not He's not throwing his hat in the ring? Has he?

943
00:54:59,400 --> 00:54:59,840
Speaker 3: Warren is?

944
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:03,760
Speaker 4: He made some very Paul warrant, He's made some very

945
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:08,240
Speaker 4: interesting financial moves lately. From what I understand, he's sitting

946
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 4: on a lot of cash, a lot of liquidity. This

947
00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:15,839
Speaker 4: is unrelated to our conversation other than the fact that

948
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 4: people who read the buffet tea leaves are pretty sure

949
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:22,319
Speaker 4: he's waiting to see what falls and.

950
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 2: How Yeah, well, I mean, and if he was there,

951
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:27,120
Speaker 2: it would have increased that nine hundred billion dollar number

952
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 2: by one hundred and forty six billion dollars roughly. And

953
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:33,840
Speaker 2: again with Bill Gates, I don't even know where his

954
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:37,040
Speaker 2: who knows? Just add another one hundred billion.

955
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:39,680
Speaker 4: Let's say just what between friends, you know what I mean,

956
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:41,160
Speaker 4: just for the table, but you.

957
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 2: Would get over a trillion dollars worth of power. Because money,

958
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:46,960
Speaker 2: as we've talked about before, is a superpower and you

959
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:49,160
Speaker 2: can use it, you can exercise it in all kinds

960
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:51,400
Speaker 2: of different ways. The reason why I'm bringing all this

961
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:54,040
Speaker 2: up because of this discussion today is because there was

962
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:58,360
Speaker 2: a little thing that was posted on PBS via AP News,

963
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:02,640
Speaker 2: written by James Keaton. It was posted on January twenty first,

964
00:56:02,719 --> 00:56:07,400
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, and the title is Billionaires Wealth soared

965
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:11,319
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four at least five trillionaires, with a

966
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:17,960
Speaker 2: t expected in next decade. Anti Poverty Group says, okay,

967
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:22,439
Speaker 2: so one of the major one of the major things here.

968
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:28,799
Speaker 2: We just talked about one point seven million dollars as

969
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 2: being a massive sum of money in nineteen twenty, nineteen ninety,

970
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:36,680
Speaker 2: nineteen nineteen, and just how much money that was and

971
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:40,000
Speaker 2: how much power that gave you one point seven million.

972
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:43,040
Speaker 2: And then you know, over the course of our lives,

973
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:46,160
Speaker 2: we've seen that number and it's joked about in the

974
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:50,480
Speaker 2: Austin Powers films, right, one billion dollars. How a billion

975
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:53,920
Speaker 2: then became the crazy number that people would not get to.

976
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:56,360
Speaker 2: That's insane, That's that's volcano layer money.

977
00:56:56,560 --> 00:56:59,200
Speaker 3: I mean, the idea of a millionaire is quaint, you

978
00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:02,360
Speaker 3: know the day and it's going to starter home in

979
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:04,920
Speaker 3: some cities is a million dollars you know.

980
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:09,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, looking at you, Austin. But the crazy thing now

981
00:57:09,239 --> 00:57:15,800
Speaker 2: is thinking that within ten years there could potentially be trillionaires,

982
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 2: like real true trillionaires, at least according to Oxfam International.

983
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:24,360
Speaker 2: All of these you know organizations, the Brooking Is Institute,

984
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 2: Oxfam International. There are things that are worth your time

985
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:29,320
Speaker 2: to look into, just so you have an understanding of

986
00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:31,840
Speaker 2: the institution, who formed it, why they formed it.

987
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:34,800
Speaker 4: Ooh, and check out our earlier episodes on Think Takes.

988
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:38,440
Speaker 2: Yes, episodes on Thing Takes so many episodes to go

989
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:41,120
Speaker 2: back to to really ponder some of this stuff. But

990
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:43,200
Speaker 2: just to me, if you read through that article that

991
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:46,040
Speaker 2: I just mentioned that you can find on PBS right now,

992
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:50,440
Speaker 2: it is astounding to imagine the Davos.

993
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:53,439
Speaker 3: Didn't we talk about Davos in Think Tanks, Yes?

994
00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:53,920
Speaker 4: Or was it?

995
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:54,360
Speaker 3: Yeah?

996
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:58,080
Speaker 2: It happens in Switzerland where the most powerful influential, rich

997
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:01,480
Speaker 2: human beings get together and just have ideas together.

998
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:05,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like, uh, it's it's like the first class

999
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:09,160
Speaker 4: version of Ted Talks. Yes, or actually it's the it's

1000
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:13,200
Speaker 4: the private plane of Ted Talks and oh gosh, yeah,

1001
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:14,240
Speaker 4: we have an episode on that.

1002
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:17,080
Speaker 3: It's in Bohemian Grove type vibe. I mean, it really

1003
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:20,320
Speaker 3: is where the big big players go to have kind

1004
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:25,000
Speaker 3: of closed door yeah, you negotiations statues.

1005
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 4: But I would say Bohemian Grove is kind of JV

1006
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 4: to the Yeah, Davos is to our earlier point. I

1007
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:37,280
Speaker 4: love how you're sewing this together, Matt. Davos is where

1008
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:39,600
Speaker 4: you're going to see those folks who have made the

1009
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:43,120
Speaker 4: decision not to be a public figure but rather to

1010
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:47,400
Speaker 4: acquire further power behind the scenes. And they're saying what

1011
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:49,840
Speaker 4: they think they're going to make the world a better place,

1012
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 4: but for whom?

1013
00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:54,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, well and who knows.

1014
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:58,080
Speaker 2: But I don't have I have enough wisdom to sit

1015
00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:00,800
Speaker 2: here and say, well, maybe you know, these billionaire guys

1016
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:03,800
Speaker 2: are all bad, but I do know that it is

1017
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:09,160
Speaker 2: concentrated power and to watch, you know, and they are guys,

1018
00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 2: these four guys, to watch them stand there as the

1019
00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:16,760
Speaker 2: you know, proceedings were occurring, all the presidential stuff, and

1020
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:19,280
Speaker 2: just to kind of examine their eyes a little bit.

1021
00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:21,840
Speaker 3: It does it did give me pause.

1022
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:26,400
Speaker 2: It made me wonder what was brewing because it is

1023
00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:32,400
Speaker 2: actual actionable power that then they are potentially wielding.

1024
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:35,960
Speaker 4: And what is their you know, what is their connection is?

1025
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:39,240
Speaker 4: It is a very you know, high stakes drama like

1026
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:42,920
Speaker 4: you would see on prestige television like Game of Thrones

1027
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:46,640
Speaker 4: or something like that. I love that you're playing this out.

1028
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:48,760
Speaker 4: And I hate to say it, guys, this is not

1029
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:52,840
Speaker 4: Devil's Advocate. I'm not doing a Pacino move here, but

1030
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:55,960
Speaker 4: I will point out that no matter who you are,

1031
00:59:57,040 --> 00:59:59,880
Speaker 4: it gets super awkward when you have to stand there

1032
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:03,960
Speaker 4: and watch a thing for a long time and there's

1033
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:07,520
Speaker 4: a camera on you. Oh yeah, you know that's I'm

1034
01:00:07,560 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 4: aware of that. But I do have to I do

1035
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:13,920
Speaker 4: have to back you up there, Matt on the on

1036
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:18,280
Speaker 4: the the haunting question. Right, for any of these things,

1037
01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:22,560
Speaker 4: in the absence of transparency, speculation only thrives. What do

1038
01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:24,000
Speaker 4: these guys talk about?

1039
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:26,440
Speaker 3: Right? What's their interaction? Like?

1040
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:30,040
Speaker 4: What brings them to the same physical location which is

1041
01:00:30,080 --> 01:00:32,560
Speaker 4: a huge security risk as well. Well?

1042
01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:35,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you just have to hope that it those

1043
01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:41,000
Speaker 2: discussions aren't based on further accumulation of wealth for themselves

1044
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:43,760
Speaker 2: and there is some kind of bigger picture we can

1045
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:48,000
Speaker 2: make this world a better place and it's not self serving.

1046
01:00:48,040 --> 01:00:50,720
Speaker 2: You just you hope in your heart. Oh man, it.

1047
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:52,760
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1048
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:55,720
Speaker 2: I'm not feeling a lot of that recently in the world.

1049
01:00:57,080 --> 01:00:59,959
Speaker 3: It's uncaps There's just no way. When you get past

1050
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:04,040
Speaker 3: a certain point of wealth, you're basically above the law

1051
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:06,680
Speaker 3: and you can do and say just about anything you want.

1052
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:08,560
Speaker 3: I mean, we've just seen it. At a certain level

1053
01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:11,480
Speaker 3: of wealth, it's really hard to go after these folks

1054
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:14,800
Speaker 3: as individuals or as you know, their corporations, which also

1055
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:18,080
Speaker 3: have all this massive political contribution power now because of

1056
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:18,960
Speaker 3: Citizens United.

1057
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:22,640
Speaker 4: I mean, there's also I got to shout it out.

1058
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:27,880
Speaker 4: The monopoly experiment, you guys. The monopoly experiment is a

1059
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:32,480
Speaker 4: microcosmic examination of why we are so concerned. Check out

1060
01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:35,000
Speaker 4: our what was that episode? Does be wealthy make you

1061
01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:39,240
Speaker 4: a bad person? We talk at length about. Oh gosh,

1062
01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:45,200
Speaker 4: it's it's fascinating. Go to your platform, your browser of

1063
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:48,520
Speaker 4: choice and check out the Monopoly Experiment Wealthy, and you

1064
01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:53,520
Speaker 4: will have a harrowing, look at why we are so concerned.

1065
01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:56,000
Speaker 3: But yeah, up with you man? Maybe optimism.

1066
01:01:56,120 --> 01:01:57,600
Speaker 4: You know what, if they get together and they just

1067
01:01:57,640 --> 01:02:00,880
Speaker 4: talk about like how the Atlanta Felt Falcns never win,

1068
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:04,920
Speaker 4: or cooking tips for crock pots.

1069
01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:07,200
Speaker 3: Maybe I don't think they do.

1070
01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:10,240
Speaker 2: I'm I just want.

1071
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:10,920
Speaker 3: To stress this.

1072
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:14,560
Speaker 2: Sitting here as I speak into this microphone, I do

1073
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:18,120
Speaker 2: not see those individuals as bad people or good people.

1074
01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:22,919
Speaker 2: I see those guys as people with tremendous potential, and

1075
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 2: it's like they get to decide what they do with

1076
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:30,040
Speaker 2: that power they have. And I you know, I know

1077
01:02:30,080 --> 01:02:33,680
Speaker 2: they'll never hear this, but dang, I don't know. As

1078
01:02:33,720 --> 01:02:37,040
Speaker 2: a whole of humanity, if we could somehow just send

1079
01:02:37,080 --> 01:02:40,680
Speaker 2: our psychic energy to the billionaires, it'd be like, let's

1080
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:44,200
Speaker 2: do let's do some cool stuff that's not about profit anymore.

1081
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:44,880
Speaker 3: Dude.

1082
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:48,360
Speaker 4: Money is a religion. It's the dominant religion in this age.

1083
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:50,560
Speaker 4: I'm not going to stop saying that, and I love it.

1084
01:02:50,600 --> 01:02:54,120
Speaker 4: Like you, if you could do anything, then why do

1085
01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:56,640
Speaker 4: you like? How do you choose what you want to do?

1086
01:02:56,720 --> 01:02:59,800
Speaker 4: It's the bubble of normalcy right because these people have

1087
01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:05,439
Speaker 4: roughly the same factory equipment as any other human being. Right,

1088
01:03:05,560 --> 01:03:09,000
Speaker 4: so maybe they suffer from the controversy of Dunbar's number.

1089
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:14,040
Speaker 4: Imperfect science, but pretty interesting. Yeah, I'm just thinking, like,

1090
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:18,960
Speaker 4: you know, what if you what we see these stats

1091
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:22,520
Speaker 4: all the time, dude. People will say, look, you make

1092
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 4: x billion dollars, right, even if you don't do anything,

1093
01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:29,520
Speaker 4: just your interest therefore will be millions of dollars.

1094
01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:30,800
Speaker 3: What if you just took that.

1095
01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:34,520
Speaker 4: Adjusting for inflation, meaning that you will never lose money.

1096
01:03:34,760 --> 01:03:37,240
Speaker 4: What if you just put that extra stuff into things

1097
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:43,080
Speaker 4: like sanitation, literacy, infrastructure, all the boring beat me here, Dylan,

1098
01:03:43,160 --> 01:03:46,000
Speaker 4: all the boring that makes civilization possible.

1099
01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:48,320
Speaker 3: Why yeah, why are you doing that.

1100
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:53,000
Speaker 2: That doesn't prop up a single philosophy, a single culture,

1101
01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:58,160
Speaker 2: a single country, a single anything, stuff that helps human

1102
01:03:58,200 --> 01:04:02,680
Speaker 2: beings proliferate in a really healthy and beautiful way.

1103
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:04,600
Speaker 3: Could I read a quick quote? I think I maybe

1104
01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:06,480
Speaker 3: have mentioned this before. It might have been about something else.

1105
01:04:06,520 --> 01:04:09,400
Speaker 3: But there's this clip making the rounds of the musician

1106
01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:12,160
Speaker 3: Frank Zappa from an interview that he did. I think

1107
01:04:12,160 --> 01:04:16,440
Speaker 3: it was on Crossfire in the eighties. In the late eighties,

1108
01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:20,760
Speaker 3: when he was against President Ronald Reagan's policy he actually

1109
01:04:20,800 --> 01:04:24,080
Speaker 3: testified about censorship at the Parents' Music Resource Center Senate

1110
01:04:24,120 --> 01:04:26,360
Speaker 3: Hearings ninet eighty five. But he just had this to

1111
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:29,280
Speaker 3: say on this segment. The biggest threat to America today

1112
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:32,760
Speaker 3: is not communism. It's moving America toward a fascist theocracy.

1113
01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:35,560
Speaker 3: And everything that's happened during the Reagan administration is steering

1114
01:04:35,640 --> 01:04:37,800
Speaker 3: us right down that pipe. When you have a government

1115
01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:41,080
Speaker 3: that prefers a certain moral code derived from a certain religion,

1116
01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:44,200
Speaker 3: that moral code turns into legislation to suit one certain

1117
01:04:44,240 --> 01:04:46,520
Speaker 3: religious point of view, and if that code happens to

1118
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:51,000
Speaker 3: be very very very far right wing, almost Attila the

1119
01:04:51,080 --> 01:04:54,840
Speaker 3: hun type stuff can happen. And I just think, you know,

1120
01:04:54,880 --> 01:04:57,800
Speaker 3: in this case, religion or theocracy could also just be

1121
01:04:58,040 --> 01:05:01,760
Speaker 3: like money that is a religiou and that is the

1122
01:05:01,800 --> 01:05:06,040
Speaker 3: primary mover and the primary motivator for these billionaires that

1123
01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:08,280
Speaker 3: are now in power, and it just kind of throws

1124
01:05:08,320 --> 01:05:12,400
Speaker 3: a lot of other moral decisions and ideas about what's

1125
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:15,400
Speaker 3: right and wrong for regular people kind of out the window.

1126
01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:18,160
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and you can take any dogmatic belief and

1127
01:05:18,240 --> 01:05:20,080
Speaker 2: stretch it all the way out to the edge, and

1128
01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:24,240
Speaker 2: it can become terrifying for everybody. Right, it doesn't matter

1129
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:27,880
Speaker 2: if it's right, left, center, or anything. It can become

1130
01:05:27,960 --> 01:05:30,880
Speaker 2: terrifying for everybody else that doesn't view the world in

1131
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:31,440
Speaker 2: that way.

1132
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:34,560
Speaker 4: Self justification is a hell of a drug, and people

1133
01:05:34,600 --> 01:05:36,720
Speaker 4: do it in your own environment.

1134
01:05:36,280 --> 01:05:36,800
Speaker 3: All the time.

1135
01:05:36,880 --> 01:05:40,880
Speaker 4: Right, Everybody sees themselves as the main character, the good guy. Therefore,

1136
01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:46,240
Speaker 4: anybody who is not immediately like worshiping it that ideology

1137
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:48,280
Speaker 4: becomes treated like an enemy.

1138
01:05:49,240 --> 01:05:51,520
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, unfortunately. Yeah.

1139
01:05:51,600 --> 01:05:54,960
Speaker 2: Well, and somebody who's so entrenched in that kind of

1140
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:57,280
Speaker 2: thing can see everybody as an enemy, and then that's

1141
01:05:57,280 --> 01:05:59,840
Speaker 2: how you get to the demagogue stuff. So it's just

1142
01:06:00,080 --> 01:06:02,480
Speaker 2: it's horrifying in a lot of ways. But I want

1143
01:06:02,480 --> 01:06:04,200
Speaker 2: to point out one last thing I noticed at the

1144
01:06:04,200 --> 01:06:07,640
Speaker 2: inauguration that I think is a cool little lesson for everybody.

1145
01:06:09,080 --> 01:06:12,160
Speaker 2: When I tuned in, it happened to be right at

1146
01:06:12,160 --> 01:06:15,320
Speaker 2: the tail end of when President Trump was speaking, and

1147
01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:20,320
Speaker 2: they introduced Carrie Underwood, who was a singer, a country

1148
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:22,520
Speaker 2: singer is coming out to sing a song, and she

1149
01:06:22,600 --> 01:06:25,360
Speaker 2: was going to sing America the Beautiful And she was

1150
01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:28,080
Speaker 2: flanked by a military officer who was going to be

1151
01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:30,480
Speaker 2: a part of the I guess a choir that was

1152
01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:33,440
Speaker 2: singing America the Beautiful with her, and there's a backing

1153
01:06:33,520 --> 01:06:36,959
Speaker 2: track that is supposed to begin playing, but the tech

1154
01:06:37,080 --> 01:06:40,920
Speaker 2: side couldn't could not get the backing track to play.

1155
01:06:41,200 --> 01:06:44,760
Speaker 2: Carrie just stood there a bit awkwardly with the microphone, waiting,

1156
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:46,960
Speaker 2: you know, for the track to play so that she

1157
01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:50,840
Speaker 2: could begin singing, and just kept waiting and nothing happened.

1158
01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:53,400
Speaker 2: Then all of a sudden, a tiny snippet of the song,

1159
01:06:53,680 --> 01:06:56,040
Speaker 2: you know, a minute into the song began playing over

1160
01:06:56,120 --> 01:06:58,320
Speaker 2: the loudspeakers and then shut off and then start playing

1161
01:06:58,360 --> 01:07:01,920
Speaker 2: again and then stopped. And everybody's looking around awkwardly, just

1162
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:04,120
Speaker 2: like what do we do in this moment? And they're

1163
01:07:04,160 --> 01:07:09,320
Speaker 2: all just human beings standing quietly in that rotunda together

1164
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:13,280
Speaker 2: in silence. As the murmurations start to, you know, the

1165
01:07:13,320 --> 01:07:18,120
Speaker 2: tiny talking begins. Everyone's talking around, and finally a producer

1166
01:07:18,160 --> 01:07:20,720
Speaker 2: walks up to carry and just says, hey, there's something

1167
01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:24,360
Speaker 2: akin to the track's not working. And you can't hear that,

1168
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:26,480
Speaker 2: but you see the person who's got you know, a headset.

1169
01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:28,280
Speaker 2: You walk up to her or the clipboard and be like,

1170
01:07:28,400 --> 01:07:31,000
Speaker 2: I don't know, and she goes all right, y'all you

1171
01:07:31,040 --> 01:07:33,600
Speaker 2: know the words, and she just begins singing a cappella

1172
01:07:34,120 --> 01:07:36,960
Speaker 2: and it is a beautiful song about a country that

1173
01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:39,600
Speaker 2: we're all a part of and at least the you

1174
01:07:39,600 --> 01:07:42,920
Speaker 2: know on this recording. And it was actually a really

1175
01:07:43,000 --> 01:07:46,120
Speaker 2: nice moment because the humanity of everybody in that room

1176
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:49,040
Speaker 2: was there because everybody was singing, everybody was singing together,

1177
01:07:49,640 --> 01:07:53,000
Speaker 2: and nobody was different from one another in that moment.

1178
01:07:53,120 --> 01:07:55,080
Speaker 2: And I know this is weird, and I'm sorry. It's

1179
01:07:55,120 --> 01:07:56,960
Speaker 2: all like America, Yah yah.

1180
01:07:56,960 --> 01:08:00,680
Speaker 3: I think I do think we all want the best

1181
01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:03,640
Speaker 3: for this country and want to be united, and I

1182
01:08:03,680 --> 01:08:06,520
Speaker 3: don't think any of us on this podcast are looking

1183
01:08:06,560 --> 01:08:09,320
Speaker 3: for division. That is the last thing that we want.

1184
01:08:10,440 --> 01:08:12,600
Speaker 2: But at the heart of it, it's it's humanity. That's

1185
01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:15,040
Speaker 2: what I saw, right, So it's it wasn't actually it

1186
01:08:15,040 --> 01:08:16,840
Speaker 2: was about a country. It was a song about a country.

1187
01:08:16,880 --> 01:08:19,240
Speaker 2: It was celebrating of the president of you know, the

1188
01:08:19,240 --> 01:08:23,639
Speaker 2: country with the most powerful navy or whatever. But at

1189
01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:27,040
Speaker 2: the heart of it, it was human beings together celebrating humanity,

1190
01:08:27,520 --> 01:08:29,559
Speaker 2: and it was kind of beautiful. And no matter how

1191
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:31,800
Speaker 2: you feel about any of that stuff, I would just say,

1192
01:08:31,800 --> 01:08:34,880
Speaker 2: there's something to that that we can all we can

1193
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:35,519
Speaker 2: all learn.

1194
01:08:35,320 --> 01:08:39,560
Speaker 4: From and we can all aspire to uh to participate

1195
01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:44,040
Speaker 4: within you know very well, said Map beautifully put. This

1196
01:08:44,360 --> 01:08:48,120
Speaker 4: is again the secret is that there are a lot

1197
01:08:48,160 --> 01:08:50,439
Speaker 4: of people who have a lot of plants, but if

1198
01:08:50,439 --> 01:08:55,120
Speaker 4: you get down to it, nobody's really in charge. That's

1199
01:08:55,160 --> 01:08:59,040
Speaker 4: the that's the craziest part. People are working hopefully working together,

1200
01:08:59,800 --> 01:09:03,519
Speaker 4: and we in that spirit hope that you will work

1201
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:07,519
Speaker 4: with us, you will join us and gosh, dare I

1202
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:10,960
Speaker 4: say it, Matt sing along with us in these moments.

1203
01:09:11,439 --> 01:09:15,679
Speaker 4: There are several ways to do so, please reach out

1204
01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:19,120
Speaker 4: and contact us, reach out and touch faith again. As

1205
01:09:19,120 --> 01:09:20,960
Speaker 4: we said at the top, we are here with you

1206
01:09:21,160 --> 01:09:24,920
Speaker 4: in this long, non consensual improv game called life. You

1207
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:28,120
Speaker 4: can find us on email. Just wrote a couple of

1208
01:09:28,720 --> 01:09:31,360
Speaker 4: had a great correspondence earlier today. You can call us

1209
01:09:31,360 --> 01:09:33,599
Speaker 4: on the telephone. We're excited to hear from you. You

1210
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:36,920
Speaker 4: can also reach us on the internets, so long as

1211
01:09:36,960 --> 01:09:40,080
Speaker 4: the Internet doesn't go full dead Internet.

1212
01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:42,200
Speaker 3: Theory, that's right. You can find us at the handle

1213
01:09:42,240 --> 01:09:45,479
Speaker 3: conspiracy stuff or we exist on the usual social media

1214
01:09:45,560 --> 01:09:49,439
Speaker 3: platforms of note, including YouTube, where we have video content

1215
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:54,200
Speaker 3: galor for your perusing enjoyment x FKA, Twitter, and Facebook,

1216
01:09:54,200 --> 01:09:56,240
Speaker 3: where we have our Facebook group. Here's where it gets crazy.

1217
01:09:56,240 --> 01:09:59,439
Speaker 3: On Instagram and for the meantime TikTok. You can find

1218
01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:02,719
Speaker 3: us handleg at Spirac Stuff Show. We're also human people,

1219
01:10:02,880 --> 01:10:04,360
Speaker 3: the three of us, and you can find us that

1220
01:10:04,400 --> 01:10:07,200
Speaker 3: way too. I'm on Instagram at how Now, Noel Brown,

1221
01:10:07,560 --> 01:10:08,600
Speaker 3: mister Ben Bullen.

1222
01:10:09,240 --> 01:10:13,439
Speaker 4: No comment reassuming humanity. You can find me at Ben

1223
01:10:13,479 --> 01:10:18,400
Speaker 4: Bullen on Instagram. You can, of course if you have

1224
01:10:18,520 --> 01:10:21,799
Speaker 4: the right scrine, mirror or a pall and teer. Always

1225
01:10:21,880 --> 01:10:25,519
Speaker 4: just knock thrice if you know the code, I'll drop by.

1226
01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:26,160
Speaker 3: Matt.

1227
01:10:26,200 --> 01:10:30,400
Speaker 4: I want to shout you out for a video that

1228
01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:34,240
Speaker 4: was posted recently on social media pertaining to some of

1229
01:10:34,280 --> 01:10:36,320
Speaker 4: our future activities in Brooklyn.

1230
01:10:36,880 --> 01:10:41,799
Speaker 2: Oh yes, why not check out on AirFest. It's happening

1231
01:10:41,920 --> 01:10:45,840
Speaker 2: this February in Brooklyn, New York. Specifically, we are doing

1232
01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:50,160
Speaker 2: a live show at National Sawdust on February nineteenth, So

1233
01:10:50,240 --> 01:10:52,200
Speaker 2: if you want to come hang with us in Brooklyn,

1234
01:10:52,720 --> 01:10:56,520
Speaker 2: why not do that? Yeah, just check it out. Make

1235
01:10:56,560 --> 01:10:58,840
Speaker 2: your way over there to National Sawdust. It's an awesome

1236
01:10:58,920 --> 01:11:01,560
Speaker 2: venue and we're going to do some stuff about conspiracies

1237
01:11:01,560 --> 01:11:05,519
Speaker 2: of sound. Indeed, Hey, if you want to call us

1238
01:11:05,600 --> 01:11:10,120
Speaker 2: Our number is one eight three three std WYTK. When

1239
01:11:10,160 --> 01:11:12,760
Speaker 2: you call in, you've got three minutes. Say whatever you'd like.

1240
01:11:12,800 --> 01:11:15,280
Speaker 2: Please give yourself a cool nickname and let us know

1241
01:11:15,320 --> 01:11:17,960
Speaker 2: if we can use your name and message within that message.

1242
01:11:18,200 --> 01:11:19,519
Speaker 2: If you got more to say than can fit in

1243
01:11:19,520 --> 01:11:21,400
Speaker 2: a three minute voicemail, why not instead send us a

1244
01:11:21,400 --> 01:11:22,439
Speaker 2: good old fashioned email.

1245
01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:25,360
Speaker 3: We are ooh ooh before we get to the email.

1246
01:11:25,400 --> 01:11:27,519
Speaker 4: We are the people who are excited to tell you

1247
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:29,959
Speaker 4: about some of the stories we didn't get to, including

1248
01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:35,120
Speaker 4: China's artificial son. Shout out to the experimental advanced superconducting Tokomac,

1249
01:11:35,439 --> 01:11:41,040
Speaker 4: which just broke a milestone infusion energy research. Oh my gosh,

1250
01:11:41,120 --> 01:11:45,479
Speaker 4: if you know anything about nuclear energy, please write to us.

1251
01:11:45,960 --> 01:11:48,920
Speaker 4: Please give us the skinny on whether this is good news,

1252
01:11:49,240 --> 01:11:52,680
Speaker 4: terrible news, or amazing news. We spent a lot of

1253
01:11:52,720 --> 01:11:55,760
Speaker 4: time on pardons and commutations today. We can't wait to

1254
01:11:55,760 --> 01:11:59,080
Speaker 4: hear your opinion on that. Write to us, give us

1255
01:11:59,120 --> 01:12:01,680
Speaker 4: the links, give us the photographs you know, send us

1256
01:12:01,720 --> 01:12:06,400
Speaker 4: pictures of your favorite shadow monsters or your favorite pets.

1257
01:12:07,360 --> 01:12:09,960
Speaker 4: We can't wait to read it and be well aware.

1258
01:12:10,160 --> 01:12:12,720
Speaker 4: Sometimes the void writes back, how can you prove that

1259
01:12:12,800 --> 01:12:13,400
Speaker 4: to yourself.

1260
01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:14,639
Speaker 3: There's only one way.

1261
01:12:15,320 --> 01:12:18,640
Speaker 4: Join us out here in the dark conspiracy at iHeartRadio

1262
01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:36,680
Speaker 4: dot com.

1263
01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:38,919
Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't want you to know is a production

1264
01:12:39,000 --> 01:12:43,519
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1265
01:12:43,640 --> 01:12:46,840
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.