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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Away End. I'm Danielle Alergone and I'm

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Speaker 1: John Green. Hey. John, Hey. If you're listening to this

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Speaker 1: on your podcast feed and not watching it on YouTube,

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Speaker 1: you can't tell how youthful and alive John looks compared

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Speaker 1: to the cadaverous uh you know, husk of a man

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Speaker 1: we've been dealing with in previous episodes. You look amazing, John.

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Speaker 2: Thanks. I shaved because you look so good, clean shaven.

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Speaker 2: I figure that I'm just going to create my inner Daniel.

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Speaker 1: That's that's what that's what's that's lovely. I'm glad we're too,

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Speaker 1: uh you know, palatable, handsome middle aged men talking about soccer.

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Speaker 1: I have a question for you. Well, I have rather

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Speaker 1: a theory, and my theory is this, and I have

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Speaker 1: a little bit of evidence on it, but I want

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Speaker 1: to throw to you. I will posit that national team

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Speaker 1: coaches should be changed every four years, no matter what,

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Speaker 1: no matter what, especially actually especially if you win.

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Speaker 2: So if you win the World Cup, you should immediately

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Speaker 2: be fired. Yes, we call this the Tottenham rule. I

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Speaker 2: just don't think that, and I'll explain my logic and

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Speaker 2: I'm interested to hear you what you think about this

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Speaker 2: and I bring this up actually because Thomas Tookele and

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Speaker 2: Carlo Sancelotti, Carlo Ancelotti, respectively, the coaches of the England

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Speaker 2: national team and the Brazilian national team, have both been

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Speaker 2: offered new contracts to continue past the World Cup. I

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Speaker 2: would say that England is a candidate, Brazil is always

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Speaker 2: a candidate just because of who they are. So let's

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Speaker 2: say one of them were to win this World Cup.

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Speaker 2: My argument is that they should not necessarily fired that

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Speaker 2: seems a little harsh, but that they should resign that

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Speaker 2: it's very difficult to have the continuity after you've climbed

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Speaker 2: the mountain. It's very difficult to then do the necessary

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Speaker 2: changes to renew.

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Speaker 1: The team for the next World Cup, right because you've

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Speaker 1: already climbed the mountain with these guys, you trust them.

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Speaker 1: But part of understanding the cycle, the life cycle of

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Speaker 1: a team, is that four years is a really long time.

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Speaker 1: If you don't change, you know, forty percent of the team,

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Speaker 1: let's say, then you're gonna you're not gonna make it.

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Speaker 1: And my example as proof, I have two France two

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Speaker 1: thousand and two and Spain twenty fourteen, two teams they

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Speaker 1: win and then they crash out of the of the

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Speaker 1: next in the group stages of the next World Cup.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, those are both two good examples. I would say

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Speaker 2: that it is really hard for a coach who climbed

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Speaker 2: the mountain with one set of players to say, now

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Speaker 2: I shall say goodbye to fifty percent of you. Those

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Speaker 2: of you who are over the age of twenty nine

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Speaker 2: don't work for me anymore. That's hard. I think, however,

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Speaker 2: that you're maybe underestimating the extent to which people like

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Speaker 2: a contract and people like the sense of continuity. There's

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Speaker 2: a benefit to the sense of continuity sometimes, right like then,

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Speaker 2: as a player, you know that's going to be your

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Speaker 2: coach even after the World Cup. I do agree that

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Speaker 2: giving two coaches who should be vying for the World

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Speaker 2: Cup contract extensions before they've performed in the World Cup

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Speaker 2: feels a little ludicrous. Like the World Cup is overwhelmingly

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Speaker 2: the most important tournament, right, Like the Nation's League means

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Speaker 2: essentially nothing compared to the World Cup, and so I

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Speaker 2: think you do have to see how somebody does in

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Speaker 2: the World Cup. I don't think you should fire everybody

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Speaker 2: or force everybody to resign after the World Cup, no

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Speaker 2: matter what. I just think that's I mean, it's a take.

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Speaker 2: It's one of those takes that would get a lot

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Speaker 2: of attention online because people are like, well, that's a take.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well I'm expecting this to be clipped and uh

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Speaker 1: and have those those little videos where someone's talking underneath

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Speaker 1: me and like making facial expressions of like what an

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Speaker 1: idiot this guy is? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm sure that'll happen.

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying that. I was about to say this

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Speaker 1: is not a game, but it just literally is a game.

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Speaker 1: But this child's playing is something that children do for fun.

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Speaker 1: It is it is uh Carlo Ancelotti, Uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: lifestyle influencer for glamorous old men. Uh, a real sort

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Speaker 1: of players manager. He knows how to work a locker room,

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Speaker 1: that managed Ego's brilliant coach, not necessarily a brilliant tactician,

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Speaker 1: but a winner obviously. But he hasn't done anything with

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Speaker 1: Brazil yet, like right, like he he lost to Bolivia

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Speaker 1: or something like like. That's it that that that's a

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Speaker 1: the extent of it, and so I think it's it's

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Speaker 1: super premature to say this is our guy for the

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Speaker 1: next cycle.

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Speaker 2: In general, I find it a little ludicrous that they

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Speaker 2: give out so many of these contracts, because in what

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Speaker 2: other field do you get like a five year contract

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Speaker 2: for having beaten Peru twice or whatever? Nothing personal, Daniel.

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Speaker 1: Nothing, No, no, none taken. Well, I mean I was

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Speaker 1: going to say in writing you, It's true. It's true.

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Speaker 2: We do live in a contract based business where you

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Speaker 2: are given you are given a lot of a lot

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Speaker 2: of benefit if you showed past success, yeah, which is

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Speaker 2: no guarantee of future successes, certainly, but publishers. Publishers are

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Speaker 2: a little myopic about that stuff sometimes. So you're right there,

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Speaker 2: there is another field where people are rewarded for past success.

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Speaker 1: I want to I want to ask the two of

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Speaker 1: you because we have our ep here Sean with us.

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Speaker 1: Actually we're actually in the same room, which is a

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Speaker 1: weird things on. Hey, what's up, Daniel, So this question

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Speaker 1: for both of you. Have either of you had any

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Speaker 1: experience coaching your children?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Uh, not in any formal setting.

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Speaker 1: No uh.

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Speaker 3: And in fact, when I have tried to just coach

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Speaker 3: any of my children, I've found that they do not

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Speaker 3: seem to take well to take any coaching advice from me.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what that means about me as a parent.

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Speaker 3: But if they they will listen to their actual coaches

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Speaker 3: for you know, soccer or basketball or tennis or like whatever.

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Speaker 3: But if I'm trying to give constructive.

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Speaker 1: Coaching advice about soccer, could it be that you don't

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Speaker 1: know anything about soccer.

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Speaker 3: Soccer specifically, Yeah, soccer specifically, yes.

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Speaker 1: Okay, tennis, I remember you played tennis. That was the

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Speaker 1: one sport.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that was semi decent.

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Speaker 2: John, I have coached co coached along with my wife,

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Speaker 2: Henry's my son Henry's soccer team. The only real memory

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Speaker 2: I have of it.

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Speaker 1: It was fun.

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Speaker 2: We had a good time. Sarah did most of the coaching.

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Speaker 2: She's a pretty good soccer player, and so she did

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Speaker 2: most of the training and the drills and teaching kids

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Speaker 2: to try to get in front of the ball occasionally,

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Speaker 2: that kind of thing. The biggest memory I have was

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Speaker 2: having a huge fight with the coach of the other

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Speaker 2: team where we almost went to shoving because the coach

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Speaker 2: of the other team was like, that was clearly off sides,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, the linesman is fourteen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, so the consultant bar here.

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Speaker 2: I don't mean like, I don't mean like the linesman

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Speaker 2: is maybe fourteen I mean, like, on the way into

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Speaker 2: the game, the linesman took me aside and said, hey,

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Speaker 2: be nice to me. I'm only fourteen.

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Speaker 1: Oh as you were defending the linesman from an irate

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Speaker 1: parent coaching.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, from a coach who was also a parent, and

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Speaker 2: he was irate because he thought that this off side's

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Speaker 2: call was wrong, which it was, but like who cares? Yeah, right,

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Speaker 2: if you try to say that, if you try to

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Speaker 2: diffuse it by saying like who cares? This isn't very

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Speaker 2: important and that kid's fourteen, let's not be hard on him,

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Speaker 2: you only make the person more irate.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, parents doing best, way too much energy in

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Speaker 1: their kid's success. I remember a British parent of a

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Speaker 1: kid who I played like pee wee soccer with back

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Speaker 1: in the day, chewing out his son at halftime because

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Speaker 1: his son was had gotten called offside like six times

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Speaker 1: in the half, you know. And this was not a

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Speaker 1: sophisticated offside trap we're talking about. This was like, you know,

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Speaker 1: he was.

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Speaker 2: Just too he had a shon ty tone level understanding

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Speaker 2: of the offside.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, it was like icing or something

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Speaker 1: and he uh yeah, And I just remember thinking like

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Speaker 1: that seems so mean, it seems like, you know, just

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Speaker 1: let the kids have fun kind of thing, you know,

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Speaker 1: like why are we doing this? I remember coaching my

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Speaker 1: son any sales team and about you know, he must

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Speaker 1: have been six years old, and about maybe two thirds

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Speaker 1: of the way through the season he was we were

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Speaker 1: walking back to catch the bus home and he was like, Bubby,

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Speaker 1: He's like, I don't think it's fair that we have

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Speaker 1: to wear the same jersey every week and the other

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Speaker 1: team gets to change colors. And then I was like

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Speaker 1: and I was like, I was like, you realize we're

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Speaker 1: playing different kids every week, you know, and he was

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Speaker 1: like mind blown.

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Speaker 2: Pool. He saw the primary benefit of playing soccer that

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Speaker 2: you get to change, you get to change jerseys every week,

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Speaker 2: and that's the only thing he liked about the game

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Speaker 2: was being denied him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he was like, you know, costume change, uh, and

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Speaker 1: we you know, it was like west Side Soccer here

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Speaker 1: in Manhattan, and you get you know, you get assigned

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Speaker 1: to color and it can be you know, cool color.

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Speaker 1: If you don't like the color, you're stuck with it

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Speaker 1: for forever. I believe it was purple that we had

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Speaker 1: and he just wasn't a fan, you know, Yeah, He

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Speaker 1: did score a wonderful goal that season, which was tremendous,

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Speaker 1: and I was very proud.

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Speaker 2: I the only time Alice ever scored a goal in

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Speaker 2: her legendary youth soccer career which rivaled my own. I

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Speaker 2: almost rushed the pitch. Yeah, it tore down the goalposts,

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Speaker 2: cut the net and it was like to go up

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Speaker 2: like seven to one.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's the one that put it away, to

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Speaker 1: put it out of reach. They say six to one

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Speaker 1: is the most dangerous scoreline. So my older son played

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Speaker 1: like my younger son doesn't love soccer. He likes he

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Speaker 1: likes the World Cup a lot. He doesn't love playing,

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Speaker 1: even though I think he's he's pretty decent, and he

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Speaker 1: doesn't like watching any any any soccer. But my older

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Speaker 1: son is a big, big, big soccer head, and so

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Speaker 1: I was. I was coached his team here in west

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Speaker 1: Side Soccer one year and I was a co coach,

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Speaker 1: same as you, except my The other coach wasn't my wife,

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Speaker 1: but it was a guy named Howard, Coach Howard and

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Speaker 1: Coach Howard would arrive in an suv uh that would

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Speaker 1: park at the top of Riverside Park and his driver

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Speaker 1: would keep the suv on for the whole game and

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Speaker 1: then would go down. He's some kind of finance guy.

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Speaker 1: I didn't really know who he was. And uh, my

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Speaker 1: oldest son is my step son, and his dad is

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Speaker 1: Italian and Carolina and my wife didn't come to all

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Speaker 1: the games. Uh, and so the coach Howard just assumed

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Speaker 1: that we were like this intercontinental, very sophisticated gay couple. Uh,

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Speaker 1: me and my wife's six husband, who we like, you know,

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Speaker 1: he's Italian and I'm Peruvian, and we like knew more

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Speaker 1: about soccer and him. So we were kind of were

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Speaker 1: like unofficial coaches and you know, explaining the off side

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Speaker 1: rule and whatnot. And I remember he would he was

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Speaker 1: always trying to get us some run plays like this

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Speaker 1: was football, and then uh, you know, we did okay,

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Speaker 1: and uh we never corrected him because I thought it

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Speaker 1: was really funny that he thought we were a couple.

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Speaker 1: We did all right that season, and then I kind

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Speaker 1: of forgot about him. And then I was starting on

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Speaker 1: the TV other day and I was like, coach Howard

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Speaker 1: is Howard Lutnik. Oh wow, secretary of the guy who's

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Speaker 1: like currently trying to destroy the world economy, coach of

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Speaker 1: my kid's soccer team and uh, and I was kind

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Speaker 1: of I was just like, oh, wow, uh okay, I like,

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Speaker 1: it's just one of these very New York stories where

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Speaker 1: I was like, you know, you're you're you never know

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Speaker 1: who's going to be in your kids pee wee soccer

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Speaker 1: team and it might be the future Secretary of the

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Speaker 1: Treasury and Epstein Island visitor and Epstein Island visitor post. Uh.

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Speaker 1: I knew that man was discussing, uh interview. Uh these people, man,

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Speaker 1: what a bunch of hypocrites. Sean.

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Speaker 2: Have you ever been to Epstein's Island?

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Speaker 3: Have not? Have not not been there? Not in the files?

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Speaker 2: I am actually for myself, I'm not I'm not me.

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Speaker 2: What did you had a lot of conversations with weird

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Speaker 2: rich people trying to raise money for hospitals in Siri

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Speaker 2: Leo and over the years. Yeah, I was in there

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Speaker 2: because Michael Wolf forwarded Epstein an email of the best

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Speaker 2: selling authors of twenty fourteen just with the message, Eh.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, I guess he didn't like the vault in

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Speaker 1: our Stars.

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Speaker 4: Huh.

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Speaker 2: I guess he wasn't a fan.

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Speaker 1: Wow, gosh, that was there any response? No, Michael Wolf.

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Speaker 2: God, he really covered himself in glory. Oh all right,

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Speaker 2: we're gonna have a deep dive into the Uzbekistan national team,

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Speaker 2: which I'm very excited about, and we're also gonna hear

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Speaker 2: a story from me about the greatest footballer who never was.

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Speaker 2: But first, let's take a break.

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Speaker 1: Okay, we're back. This is the way and I'm Danielle

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Speaker 1: Larcone and John I'm going to tell you about the

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Speaker 1: Uzbekistani national team. The uzbek national team great. They are

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Speaker 1: known as the White Wolves, and because I am a

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Speaker 1: novelist and love literature, I'm gonna first talk about how

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Speaker 1: they were have been known as Asia's cursed team, and

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Speaker 1: there's a couple of examples, but I want to dive

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Speaker 1: into one which I think is pretty remarkable, but a

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Speaker 1: little bit of background. This year they're going to be

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Speaker 1: in Group K, which as you know, is Portugal, Colombia

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Speaker 1: and either New Caledonia, Jamaica or the Dr Congo. My

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Speaker 1: money's on Congo for this one. And so we sort

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Speaker 1: of you touched on this John last week, when you

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Speaker 1: sort of give us your deep dive into the national

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Speaker 1: team of called di'voir. But there's a lot of new

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Speaker 1: countries and I guess like pretty much in the newest

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Speaker 1: are the post Soviet republics. I think there's something super

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Speaker 1: interesting here because the Soviet Union collapses and now there's

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Speaker 1: suddenly a bunch of new teams. And think a month,

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Speaker 1: you can either especially the Central Asian republics, you can

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Speaker 1: kind of go with Asia, or you can go with YUEFA. Right,

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Speaker 1: you can go to the Asian Federation, or you can

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Speaker 1: go to YUEFA. And so a bunch of the former

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Speaker 1: Soviet republics joined YUEFA the European Federation, right, So I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Georgia, Armenia,

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Speaker 1: Azerbaijan and Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan Kyrgystan to Tajikistan. Ministan kind of

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Speaker 1: could have gone either way, and they joined the Asian Federation,

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Speaker 1: which I think is pretty interesting. Kazakhstan eventually switched back,

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Speaker 1: but Usbek's stayed with Asia for this most recent campaign.

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Speaker 1: They won six of their ten matches, three draws and

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Speaker 1: a loss, and they were second in their group behind Iran,

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Speaker 1: which means they qualified. But why were they the cursed team?

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Speaker 1: And I think this is a fun little story. They

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Speaker 1: only started playing as an independent nation in nineteen ninety two.

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Speaker 1: They had their first game in ninety two, and they've

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Speaker 1: been kind of on the cusp of getting to the

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Speaker 1: World Cup twice before this time. When they actually made

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Speaker 1: it in two thousand and six, they had this playoff

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Speaker 1: game against Bahrain and there was a really controversial decision

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Speaker 1: that ended up sort of making them lose their opportunity

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Speaker 1: to qualify. And what happened was this, they had a

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Speaker 1: first leg game. It was Bekistan in Bahrain and Uzbekistan

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Speaker 1: one nothing, but the game was annulled because the Japanese

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Speaker 1: ref made an error. He basically incorrectly awarded a free

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Speaker 1: kick to Bahrain instead of ordering a retake for penalty

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Speaker 1: infringement that had been scored right. So that game, a

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Speaker 1: player named server dejh Perov scored the penalty for Uzbekistan,

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Speaker 1: but the referee disallowed it because of encroachment by a

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Speaker 1: newsback player, but instead of ordering it to be retaken

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Speaker 1: as per the rules, he gives this free kick to

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Speaker 1: Bachrain and so instead of going up to nothing, they

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Speaker 1: stay at one nothing, and then Uzbekistan wanted basically to

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Speaker 1: be given the game as a three nothing victory if

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Speaker 1: you've rejected it. They had the whole game played again

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Speaker 1: and uh that replay ended up one to one no.

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Speaker 1: And then the second legend Bakrain ended up zero zero,

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Speaker 1: which meant it meant that Bahrain advanced to the next

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Speaker 1: round of playoffs on the away goals rule. The away goals.

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Speaker 2: Rule might be the worst rule in all of football.

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Speaker 2: It's given us some really incredible moments.

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Speaker 1: I have to say.

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Speaker 2: It's it. It creates a kind of drama, but it it.

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Speaker 2: If you're Sean, can the game?

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Speaker 3: Can you tell me? Yeah? I was going to jump in.

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Speaker 2: Actually, let's have JN because if you try, if you

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Speaker 2: try to pitch this idea to Sean, Sean's going to

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Speaker 2: be like, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard of.

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Speaker 1: Well wait, but first, Sewn, would you explain the away

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Speaker 1: goals rule? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Wow, this one might have me have me stumped. It's

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Speaker 3: something that happens within the game itself, like during gameplay.

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Speaker 1: I'll give you a hint. It has to do with

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Speaker 1: two legged playoffs. Two legged meaning we play at home

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Speaker 1: and we play away.

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Speaker 2: And then the combined score is what decides who wins.

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Speaker 3: If you score a goal while your team is away,

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Speaker 3: it's it's awarded extra more points than that nailed.

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Speaker 1: That's it. It's a type. So if it's one to

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Speaker 1: one in uh tash Kent and then zero zero in Bahrain,

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Speaker 1: it's aggregate scorer is one to one. But because Bahrainy

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Speaker 1: national team scored a goal in Tashkent, then they advance. Right.

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Speaker 3: Is this a rule that only happened for temporary like

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Speaker 3: or is this still a rule that is happening today.

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Speaker 1: So the the goal of that rule, like the purpose

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Speaker 1: of it was to encourage the visiting team to attack more,

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Speaker 1: to create more exciting football, because usually teams would if

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Speaker 1: the would be a visitor, they would just sit back

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Speaker 1: and defend for ninety minutes. Right, So the goal was

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Speaker 1: to create incentives to play more attacking football because your

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Speaker 1: away goals would be more interesting. It had the effect

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Speaker 1: actually of making the home team way more conservative than

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Speaker 1: they should be. So I'm not sure it actually resulted

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Speaker 1: in more attacking football. And it's a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a holdover from the days when travel was you know,

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Speaker 1: an exhausting journey like by steamship and like hike, you know,

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Speaker 1: whereas they don't use it. For example, anymore in the

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Speaker 1: Champions League, because like you know, it's just like jumping

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Speaker 1: on your private plane from Paris to Barcelona is not

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Speaker 1: like an arduous journey anymore.

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Speaker 2: So they've mostly gotten rid of it because it mostly

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Speaker 2: didn't do what they expected it to do.

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Speaker 1: Right. There was that famous game where there was that

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Speaker 1: Icelandic volcano that blew up, disrupting travel all over Europe

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Speaker 1: and making the Barcelona team go by bus to Milan

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Speaker 1: like and where they ended up losing, even though they

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Speaker 1: were by far the better team. So there are sort

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Speaker 1: of situations where travel is arduous but no longer. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I didn't. It didn't have the sporting impacts that they

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Speaker 1: had hoped it would have.

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Speaker 2: But back to the USBAC national team, they do not

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Speaker 2: qualify for that World Cup on account of a bad

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Speaker 2: referees mistake and thereby having to replay a game and

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Speaker 2: giving up in a wig.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I just want to give a shout out to

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Speaker 1: the referee till she meets so Yoshida.

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Speaker 2: Just brutal you named him.

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Speaker 1: I just want to name and shame because it was

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Speaker 1: a it was a big mistake and I'm sorry, mister Yoshida,

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Speaker 1: but you know you no one will buy you a

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Speaker 1: beer in Tashkent. But this year they won. Their coach,

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Speaker 1: Timour Capazze resigned afterwards, and you'll never guess who their

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Speaker 1: current manager is.

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Speaker 2: I won't.

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Speaker 1: You're right, Okay, do you want to hints or no? Yeah? Okay?

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Speaker 1: Former Juventus player, former Madrid player, defender, captain of the

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Speaker 1: Italian national team in two thousand and six World Cup

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Speaker 1: winner Ballon d'Or winner, Fabio Cannavaro.

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Speaker 2: Fabio Cannavarro is a manager.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a manager. He's a okay man. You know,

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Speaker 1: I You're gonna be shocked to know this, but I

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Speaker 1: did not know much about these Becastanni national team until

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Speaker 1: last night.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Uh so I was looking into kind of arrow because

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Speaker 1: I'd sort of lost track of him since he retired.

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Speaker 1: Uh he's had a really undistinguished manager career, like managing

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Speaker 1: in China, you know, managing around Asia, like not really

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Speaker 1: doing much. But he got this job. I mean, look,

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Speaker 1: he brings arguably the experience of having been in a

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Speaker 1: World Cup, being a World Cup winner. That World Cup

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Speaker 1: two thousand and six, Italy kept five clean sheets, incredible defense,

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Speaker 1: which if you're going to be you know, a debutant,

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Speaker 1: a World Cup debutant, you probably want a defensive genius

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Speaker 1: mastermind like Kinnavaro to sort of be training you. I

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Speaker 1: don't expect them to be much in terms of an

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Speaker 1: attacking side. They're probably the highest profile player is this

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Speaker 1: kid Kuzanov who plays for n City, so therefore I

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Speaker 1: hate him. He's a really good player. I mean, he's young.

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Speaker 1: He had a nightmare first game. He come out of

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Speaker 1: thrown in the deep end. He gave away a penalty,

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Speaker 1: or he didn't give away a penal, he gifted a

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Speaker 1: goal to Nanny Medwiki, he got a a yellow card,

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Speaker 1: like in the first three minutes. He was like crying

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Speaker 1: at halftime almost But to his credit, balls of steel

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Speaker 1: on this kid, because he kept playing and he played

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Speaker 1: really well, and he's in the team, and you know,

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Speaker 1: he's a twenty year old kid making his debut at

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Speaker 1: Man City, has a rough game but sort of bounces back.

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Speaker 1: So I have great admiration for him, although I still

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Speaker 1: hate him. And the guy known as Uzbek Messi, which

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Speaker 1: I say with the largest air quotes you could imagine.

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Speaker 1: I just feel like that that that's the kind of

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Speaker 1: name that is like a shows a real lack of

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Speaker 1: imagination because I watched clips of elder Scholmrudov, and I

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Speaker 1: can say, unless something is really lost in translation, this

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Speaker 1: is no Nael Messi at all. He's good, he's fine.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's scored a bunch of goals for the

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Speaker 1: national team, forty three goals in eighty eight appearances, so

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Speaker 1: he's a good striker, good finisher. I watched about twenty

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Speaker 1: minutes of highlights, maybe two dozen goals. All but two

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Speaker 1: of them were one touch finishes, just like Messi exactly.

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Speaker 1: So this is not you know, I mean, he's more

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Speaker 1: like the from my humble sort of like viewing of things.

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Speaker 1: He's not the Uzbek Messi. He's more like the Uzbek Chicharito.

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Speaker 1: You know, this is not a world class player, enough respect,

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Speaker 1: and I say this with all due respect to our

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Speaker 1: Uzbek listeners or our Ruzbek listener. Yeah, he plays in

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Speaker 1: the Turkish super League, and not even for one of

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Speaker 1: the teams you've heard of, John, one of the teams

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Speaker 1: that you have not heard of.

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Speaker 2: Ok, okay, and he's fine when he's when he wins

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Speaker 2: the Golden Boot. Daniel, you're really going to be eating

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Speaker 2: your words. I'm going to be.

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Speaker 1: I will I will happily eat my words, you know,

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Speaker 1: probably for my punishment for this will be the he

433
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 1: scores like a you know, a hat trick against Columbia

434
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 1: really be awful, and I apologize to our Columbian listeners

435
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 1: in advance for that. Anyway, I think it's going to

436
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 1: be an interesting team. My take from the research that

437
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,919
Speaker 1: I did in preparation for this. They're going to be

438
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 1: a defensive team. They have Fibyo Knavado as their manager

439
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:19,959
Speaker 1: who's going to set them up to not lose. And

440
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: they have a very talented young defender and Khusuinov and

441
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 1: then and he'll be there kind of stalwart in the

442
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:30,880
Speaker 1: back despite his youth. They will not do very well

443
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 1: I think against Portugal. I hope they won't do very

444
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 1: well against Columbia. And then you know, like a lot

445
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,720
Speaker 1: of these groups third places up up in the air.

446
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 1: You know, they could surprise the our Congo or Jamaica

447
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 1: or New Caledonia and you never know, you never know.

448
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,120
Speaker 2: And I think that's exactly what makes this World Cup

449
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 2: so interesting, is the fact that a lot of the

450
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 2: third place teams, if they can snatch a win, will

451
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:55,160
Speaker 2: go through.

452
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 1: I agree with that, I agree.

453
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 2: I think three points will probably be enough to see

454
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 2: you through. And so you know, if you're Haiti, you

455
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 2: know you've still got a chance if you win one game.

456
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we've got We actually got an email about that,

457
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 1: which we'll read in the next section, but about sure

458
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 1: of questioning whether that's actually true, but we'll see. I

459
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: think it's going to be interesting to see Uzbekistan play

460
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 1: in this World Cup. And I also just want to

461
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:26,679
Speaker 1: congratulate them, as a Peruvian who is not in the

462
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 1: World Cup for making it. It's a huge accomplishment and

463
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:32,680
Speaker 1: I think that they are probably no longer is just

464
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 1: cursed team, and so congratulations to all the Uzbeks out there.

465
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 1: We should take a.

466
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 4: Break, John, and we'll be right back with your story.

467
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 1: All right, we're back on the way, and John, I

468
00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 1: have an email for you. This is from Adejandro and

469
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 1: Daniel a Columbian here mios fan live in the United States,

470
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: and I'm loving your podcast. Thank you very much. In

471
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 1: episode four, while discussing Ivory Coast chances of coming out

472
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: of the group stage, you said, I think this would

473
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,159
Speaker 1: be you, John, that a win and a close loss

474
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,440
Speaker 1: in either of the two games should be enough. Looking

475
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: back at the ninety four World Cup, which is in

476
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 1: my view, the best reference twenty four teams three points

477
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,440
Speaker 1: per win, Russia missed around of sixteen with three points

478
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 1: plus and a plus one goal difference. Assuming this World

479
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 1: Cup is like ninety four, duplicated, three points and zero

480
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 1: goal difference might not be enough, especially considering there should

481
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 1: be more groups where one team will lose all of

482
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 1: their games and the team team quality seems to be

483
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 1: more unequal than in previous World Cups. He signs off saying,

484
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 1: keep up the good work and thank you for sharing

485
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 1: middle aged dad thoughts about football. I feel seen a

486
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: great use of the youthful lingo there by being seen

487
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: Alejandro H. I appreciate that contemporary Yeah. Okay, so this

488
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 1: seems like a lot of math, John, But do you

489
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 1: have any response to ade handle. Yeah.

490
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 2: My response is that I think eight of the twelve

491
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:10,919
Speaker 2: third place teams are going to go through, So like,

492
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 2: how bad? So if four teams, you know, say draw

493
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 2: one one in their last game in their game against

494
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 2: say there's two bad teams in each group, if you

495
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 2: tie with the other bad team, you don't go through

496
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 2: because you finish in third place with one point and

497
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 2: somebody else finishes in fourth place with one point, and

498
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 2: I think that might be the case for at least

499
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 2: three or four of the of the team. So I

500
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 2: think if I think a win is enough, win with

501
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 2: some close losses are enough. That's my math. My math

502
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 2: is notoriously bad.

503
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: Though.

504
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 2: You can ask Daniel, you can ask Sean, you can

505
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 2: ask anyone who went to high.

506
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: School with Yeah, yeah, same. Well, I'm going to trust

507
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,479
Speaker 1: your math on that, and I guess we'll you know,

508
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: I remember being in algebra class and the question was

509
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 1: something like, if you, you know, have a bicycle and

510
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: the radius of attire is this much, and you pedal

511
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: six times, how far will you go? And I just

512
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 1: remember being floored that one could actually know that without

513
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 1: moving the bicycle six times. So all of like, for me,

514
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: I'm just going to wait for the games to happen

515
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,479
Speaker 1: and then someone will tell me who made it because

516
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 1: I get into that prediction mode and I just can't

517
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: do it. So but Alejandro, we appreciate your question. Should

518
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 1: we do emails and then you want to do your

519
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: story or vice versa.

520
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 2: Let's do one more email and then we'll do the stories.

521
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: Okay, this is from Diego question. You both talked about

522
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: playing football yourselves in leagues or pickup games. I live

523
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 1: in Mexico and have played for many years in an

524
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: amateur Sunday leagues, although it's not ever actually played on Sunday.

525
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: The problem is that games tend to get violent alarmingly frequently.

526
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: I've lost count of the number of name games that

527
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:02,479
Speaker 1: have come to blows. It's utterly ridiculous, maddening. Any advice.

528
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 1: Have either of you had similar experiences. I wonder how

529
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 1: frequentness is in the United States.

530
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 2: I've never gotten to blows in the United States playing football,

531
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 2: but I've also never played at a high level.

532
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember actually one one I played actually in

533
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 1: the league out in Oakland, and I remember a fight

534
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 1: broke out. It was this league where I remember there

535
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: was a security guard. They were checking for weapons when

536
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: you walked into the area the field that was out

537
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: by the airport in Oakland. What I do remember we

538
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: wore red jerseys and there was a fight that happened

539
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 1: in the game just before hours between a team that

540
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 1: wore blue and another team that wore red. And I

541
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: remember that when the fight broke out and the fans

542
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: because everyone wanted their families, and you know, it was

543
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 1: like a legitimate fight. I remember we all looked aroun

544
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 1: because were getting ready for our game, and we realized

545
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 1: we were wearing red jerseys as well, and everyone on

546
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: my team just quickly took their jerseys off because we

547
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: were like, we're not involved here. When we just held

548
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: our hands up and we let Blue and Red fight

549
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 1: it out, and they broke up and no one was injured,

550
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 1: and then we played our game.

551
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 2: I will say the most fun I've ever had at

552
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 2: pickup soccer was in a co ed league where it

553
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 2: felt like violence was really off the menu. Yeah, not

554
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 2: to make it entirely about sex and gender identity, but

555
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 2: like boy, I do think that there's something about there's

556
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 2: something about men, there's something wrong with them.

557
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 1: Daniel, Yeah, I think that's I think that's right. I've

558
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 1: played on plenty of co ed teams, and I agree

559
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 1: that does take the edge off in a way that

560
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 1: is useful for everybody and for the sport. I want

561
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: to highlight one more thing before we go to your

562
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: story again. From another listener from Luciano, who's an Argentine

563
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: who doesn't really enjoy football, but he wanted to do

564
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: a recommendation, and I just want to second this. There's

565
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 1: a really great Argentine author named Roberto Fontanaros who wrote

566
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: a book called put Football, and Luciano recommended it to us.

567
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: And I just want to say I was gifted this

568
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: book by an Argentine friend named Leandro many years ago,

569
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 1: and it's hilarious and wonderful, and so I just want

570
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 1: to echo what Luciano said. It's a great book for

571
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: those of you who read in Spanish. He says, best

572
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: wishes from the current champions. However, if we go back

573
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 1: to what I said in segment one, Skyloni is still

574
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: the coach of Argentina and I am officially worried about Argentina. Okay,

575
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 1: all right, I'm saying it going on the record.

576
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 2: Man, all right, I'm not worried about Argentina bobbing out

577
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 2: in the group phase. But I guess I've been wrong before.

578
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 3: You have.

579
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't say the group phase, but they might

580
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: lose to Uruguay, as our friend Bruno told us.

581
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that is possible.

582
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 1: All right.

583
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 2: My story for you, Daniel is about the great Brazilian

584
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 2: footballer Carlos Kaiser. Now I think that you know part

585
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 2: of this story because you're part of the reason I

586
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 2: know about it. But I just had to tell this

587
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 2: story on the podcast. Carlos Kaiser was a footballer whose

588
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 2: career spanned His professional career spanned twelve years, during which

589
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 2: he made zero appearances. Now this story is meaningful to

590
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 2: me because I have always suspected myself. We all suspect ourselves,

591
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 2: suspect of ourselves that we could be great at something

592
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 2: we never got to be great at. And the thing

593
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 2: that I suspect I could have been great at is

594
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 2: I think I could have been a great locker room member.

595
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 2: I think I could have been great in the locker

596
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 2: room of a football team. Like when I first got

597
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 2: my first job at Booklist magazine. I remember, maybe six

598
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 2: months in, my manager had my performance review and she

599
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 2: basically said, you've been a great personality hire. Wow, you

600
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 2: don't do the job as such, but you're great to

601
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 2: have around.

602
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 1: And how did you feel about that?

603
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 2: Oh, that's kind of been my thing the time. Well, okay,

604
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 2: I mean, nobody labors under the delusion that I was,

605
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 2: in fact the best novelist of twenty fourteen, but I

606
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:09,280
Speaker 2: was a personality higher.

607
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 1: Okay, So This is now two weeks in a row

608
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:16,839
Speaker 1: we've had these kind of Remember last week he told

609
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 1: the story of your coach that put you in just

610
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 1: to teach the players the importance of trying hard, right,

611
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 1: And now you're saying you were the personality higher in

612
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:28,800
Speaker 1: your first job. So there does seem to be this

613
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 1: theme of these kind of of of self deprecating stories

614
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 1: that I just I don't I don't buy it.

615
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 2: I feel like you were pretty good at Booklist. I'm

616
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 2: not being self deprecating at all. I am absolutely celebrating

617
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 2: my incredible, my incredible qualities as a personality higher. I

618
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 2: was a good reviewer, but my job wasn't reviewing. My

619
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 2: job was putting numbers into a database at which I

620
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 2: was completely mediocre. Oh I think anybody could do that job. Okay, Well,

621
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 2: I'm not saying I wasn't a good writer. I'm saying

622
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 2: saying that I wasn't a good publishing assistant.

623
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 1: Okay, got it. But you were wonderful to have in

624
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 1: the locker room at book.

625
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 2: I was great to have in the locker room. And

626
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,800
Speaker 2: I suspect, and I mean you guys might be the

627
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 2: two people who've seen me in a locker room setting.

628
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 2: Locker room like setting the most. I think I get

629
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 2: along with people. I think I'm I think I'm a

630
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 2: I think I'm a I think I'm a joiner. I

631
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:26,240
Speaker 2: think I can I think I can bring people together.

632
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 2: I think I can resolve arguments. I think that like

633
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 2: like like money and Sola needed Roberta for me. Now

634
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 2: I would be a Roberta for me, you know, like

635
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 2: character in the locker room without the goals or the

636
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 2: obviously with none of the skills, which brings us back

637
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 2: to Carlos Geyser go On go On, who was the

638
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 2: ultimate personality higher he became friends with many professional footballers.

639
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 2: He did have a youth career. Okay, so he played

640
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 2: for Flamengo in his youth career, but he was not

641
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 2: good enough to be a professional footballer. And so what

642
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,839
Speaker 2: he would do is he would go to a new

643
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 2: team and he would be like, oh, I gotta get

644
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 2: in match shape. You know, it's gonna take me a

645
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 2: minute to get in match shape. And then he'd do

646
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 2: all the workouts, the non footballing stuff, you know, the

647
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 2: lifting weights, the running, all that stuff, which he was

648
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 2: brilliant at because he was a you know, he was

649
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 2: a fit guy, and he would do all that stuff,

650
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:22,399
Speaker 2: and then when it came time for him to sort

651
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 2: of approach the maybe being on the bench, he would

652
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 2: tear his hamstring. He tore his hamstring like nine or

653
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,720
Speaker 2: ten times in his eleven year career, never once actually

654
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 2: tearing his hamstring. But back then there was no like

655
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 2: ultra sound to look for a torn hamstring. And then

656
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 2: eventually he would move on. After a short stint at

657
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 2: one club, he would move on to another. And he

658
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 2: played at some of the biggest clubs in all of Brazil.

659
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:50,720
Speaker 2: I mean, he played for Flamengo twice, he played for Independiente,

660
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,800
Speaker 2: he played for Flumenes, he played for Vasco da Gama.

661
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:55,439
Speaker 1: I mean he play.

662
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 2: He put an incredible career in which he made zero

663
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 2: appearances because he was a complete con artist. I love it.

664
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 1: My memory of the Carlos Kaiser story that the part

665
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 1: that I love. And I think he actually played in

666
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: Europe too, maybe in Portugal or something.

667
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he did.

668
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,240
Speaker 1: Is that one of the things that this all started

669
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 1: because he looked like a footballer.

670
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:17,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, he had the look.

671
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 1: He had the look, which is probably why you or

672
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 1: I could never sort of like, you know, fulfill the

673
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 1: Carlos Kaiser role even though we're you know, locker room dynamite.

674
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 1: But he was just like incredibly fit, handsome, and also

675
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 1: he was the other play I mean, this is the

676
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 1: whole thing. The other players loved him because he was

677
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 1: a big party guy. So he was like he was

678
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 1: like getting the booze, getting the girls, like making life

679
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 1: in the locker room for the players who actually played

680
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:51,800
Speaker 1: like a lot of fun, which is why he was

681
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 1: able to stay at certain teams. There's also another anecdote

682
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 1: of his, which I don't know if you came across

683
00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 1: in your in your research, that the one time he

684
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 1: did get into a game, he like got a red

685
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 1: card like immediately, like within ninety seconds, and then and

686
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 1: then dedicated it to the owner of the team because

687
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 1: he's the other the other away fans have been chanting

688
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 1: something derogatory to the team owner. So he went out,

689
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: he got thrown in the game, got a red card,

690
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 1: was suspended for three games, and then you know torres Hamstring.

691
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 2: My favorite story about him is that at the end

692
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 2: of his career, he would use a toy cell phone

693
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 2: to pretend to be taking calls from other clubs like, oh,

694
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 2: I might have to might have to make a move here.

695
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 2: I'm good, I've got flumines on the phone. Oh god,

696
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:38,320
Speaker 2: but it was a toy.

697
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 1: What do you think that is? Is that is this

698
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,879
Speaker 1: just like a guy who's really creative and was looking

699
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 1: for a way to make a living that was like

700
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 1: a soccer adjacent or is this a con artist who

701
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 1: could have been like, you know, a Ponzi scheme guy

702
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:55,800
Speaker 1: in another life, Like, what is it?

703
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 2: Well, I think it goes back to something you've observed,

704
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:01,800
Speaker 2: which is that professional football have an extraordinary amount of confidence.

705
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 2: And to be a con artist, you are essentially a

706
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 2: confidence artist. You are selling people on your confidence. And

707
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 2: it seems like he had all of the skills necessary

708
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 2: to be a professional footballer, except for the footballing skills.

709
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 2: He had that self belief, he had that you know,

710
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:19,320
Speaker 2: ability to convey to you with confidence that he was

711
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:23,319
Speaker 2: going to be an asset to your team. And then

712
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:25,880
Speaker 2: by the end, he had a list of clubs that

713
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 2: had actually hired him. You know, he'd never made an

714
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 2: appearance for any of them. But this was the pre

715
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 2: video being everywhere era, the pre you know, Internet era,

716
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 2: and so it was still doable. Yeah, I imagine that

717
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 2: Carlos Kaiser wasn't the only Carlos Kaiser in the history

718
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 2: of football. He's just the only one we've heard about

719
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 2: because eventually, you know, it all came crashing down for

720
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 2: him a little bit.

721
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, but he's still living off of the twelve years

722
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,439
Speaker 1: that he didn't play. Like. He made a documentary Oh yeah,

723
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 1: you know, like we covered history around Bulante and interviewed

724
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:03,479
Speaker 1: a lot of who you know, quote unquote played with him. Yeah.

725
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 1: I also think in the age of powerful agents that

726
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 1: there are now there must be a number of unscrupulous

727
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:15,800
Speaker 1: agents who are selling players who can't actually play but

728
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 1: look like they can play. Yeah, all over.

729
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 2: Well, the whole reason he got the name Carlos Kaiser

730
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:25,320
Speaker 2: was because he looked like Franz Beckenbauer. And it is

731
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 2: still the case in football that like, if you look

732
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 2: like you can play, they take you seriously in a

733
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 2: way that they don't if you don't look like you

734
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 2: can play.

735
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm nodding my head in agreement because I feel

736
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 1: like I usually don't get picked first, if you know

737
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:46,760
Speaker 1: what I mean. Yeah, but yeah, I have a friend Sina,

738
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,320
Speaker 1: who looks like a retired soccer player, like a recently

739
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:53,359
Speaker 1: retired soccer player. He's my age, he's our age. He's

740
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,440
Speaker 1: incredibly fit because he he like lives in Bodaba to

741
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 1: like go on his bike to Khali, you know, like

742
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 1: a or a bike ride like wow, down to you know,

743
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:08,239
Speaker 1: the low lens of Columbia is and so you know,

744
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 1: like I hadn't seen him in a while, I got

745
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 1: to go with that, you know, I gave him hugger

746
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 1: was like hugging a tree, like he's so fit, you know.

747
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 1: And uh, I feel like if you walked into a

748
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 1: bar and was wearing like a soccer jersey or some

749
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: you know, there'll be people who'd be like, oh, what

750
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:26,759
Speaker 1: team did he play for? You know, like yep, he

751
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,800
Speaker 1: just has that look. But he's actually, by his own admission,

752
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:33,320
Speaker 1: and absolute terrible soccer player. Like the only he doesn't

753
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:35,359
Speaker 1: even care about soccer, like the only thing he does

754
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 1: is his bike. But the look, it matters. The look

755
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:38,479
Speaker 1: matters for sure.

756
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's also how you care yourself, Like I mean,

757
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 2: I remember, there's a measure of just like the confidence

758
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 2: in your body, the understanding of your body in space

759
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:55,399
Speaker 2: that you communicate in subtle ways when you're moving about

760
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 2: the world, and Carlos Kaiser obviously had that even if

761
00:41:58,000 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 2: he didn't have the footballing.

762
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, God bless him.

763
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:04,719
Speaker 3: You guys mentioned there's a documentary, Like I'm shocked that, Hollywood.

764
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 3: This feels like ripe for like a narrative film of

765
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:09,720
Speaker 3: like telling his story.

766
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Like but to me, it's like one of

767
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 1: those films that you could make in a number of ways.

768
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:16,439
Speaker 1: It could be like a Boogie Knights, or it could

769
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:19,279
Speaker 1: be like a you know, twenty one Jump Street, you know,

770
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 1: like comedy, like it could be like.

771
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:24,320
Speaker 3: There's a darkness undertone potentially, or it could just be

772
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 3: more slap sticky.

773
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 1: Yeah like that. Like they I feel like every five

774
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 1: years they make a movie about an adult going back

775
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 1: to high school who's like pretending. And I think this

776
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 1: could be that, you.

777
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 3: Know, I'm trying to I know, John, you are notoriously

778
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 3: not somebody who casts people in movies, indeed, but I

779
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 3: don't know I'm putting it if we want to put

780
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:47,360
Speaker 3: on our casting hats, who should play Carlos Kaiser in

781
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 3: the Hollywood make I'm I'm looking at a picture of

782
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 3: him right now, and I'm a little torn but is

783
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,439
Speaker 3: Bill Hayter? Is that is that too off? Like Bill

784
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,040
Speaker 3: Hayter's like really long hair or something like that. I

785
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:00,320
Speaker 3: don't know.

786
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, you could do that. I mean I feel like

787
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:07,359
Speaker 1: if you, uh, if you you know, if you want

788
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 1: to actually sort of sell this movie, you'd probably want

789
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 1: to do the more a guy from Secret Agent, you know,

790
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 1: m oh yeah, yeah, that guy would be good. He'd

791
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 1: be good. Yeah, keep it Brazilian yep. But you know,

792
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 1: the older guy could also be like a you know,

793
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 1: if you do like a retrospective or Kaiser is old

794
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 1: and he's telling his story in retrospect. There's kind of

795
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 1: a Dustin Hoffman h thing to it. You know.

796
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 2: I was thinking, the guy who plays h Football is

797
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 2: life guy from ted Lasso, brilliant.

798
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's him. That's it. That's it sold. All right.

799
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 1: We're gonna go soon and John and I will write

800
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 1: the script for the Kaiser film. Yeah, yeah, we'll just

801
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:52,359
Speaker 1: write on text. That's a great that's a great new project. Yeah.

802
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:54,879
Speaker 2: I don't have enough to be a good movie. There's

803
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 2: nothing against it as a movie. It's very hard to

804
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 2: get movies made about football. I've tried for years.

805
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 1: Well, well, I don't know, I feel like other sports

806
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 1: translate better on the like like the one of the

807
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:07,879
Speaker 1: things that's terrible about Ted Lasso. It's a fun show.

808
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 1: I liked it. I enjoyed it a lot, actually, but

809
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 1: the actual football is terrible. It doesn't look believable. It

810
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 1: doesn't look real. It doesn't look like it looks like

811
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 1: it's in slow motion. Yeah, and it and whereas I

812
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:25,360
Speaker 1: feel like if you watch Hoosier's the basketball looks pretty.

813
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:28,799
Speaker 2: Real, well, you're they're also high school basketball players, which helps.

814
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, exact, I mean fair. But even in that that

815
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 1: really wonderful comedy. Uh, next Goal Wins, which I really

816
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 1: enjoyed and recommend as a soccer movie, I didn't think

817
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 1: the soccer there, you know, and they're supposed to be terrible.

818
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 1: Even there, it didn't look real enough to sort of

819
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 1: pass the smell tups. Yeah.

820
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:50,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's hard. It's not easy to make a

821
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 2: good soccer movie. But that said, like, it is the

822
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:54,800
Speaker 2: world's game, and so if you could crack it, you

823
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 2: could you could have a movie with a huge audience.

824
00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 2: So I'll keep trying. I'm not giving up on it.

825
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 2: It's my only remaining dream really is to make a

826
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 2: great soccer movie.

827
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 1: Sometimes dreams do come true. What is it your line?

828
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 1: Hope is never justified, but it's always rewarded. No, the opposite,

829
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:15,320
Speaker 1: the opposite. Yeah, that would be great. Hope is always rewarded.

830
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 2: If the world we're sort of a wish granted factory

831
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 2: where you like, close your eyes and be like, I'd

832
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 2: like to win the World Cup.

833
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,720
Speaker 1: There you go, all right? That could be the premise

834
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 1: of our soccer movie, which we'll start writing immediately on text, John,

835
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:31,239
Speaker 1: I think that's all the time we have for the way,

836
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 1: and man, I'll see you next week.

837
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 2: I'll see you next week. Thanks to our producer Kurt

838
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 2: and Sean Taitone and everybody who works on the show

839
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 2: if making it.

840
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 1: Possible, Yeah, keep sending us emails at away ndpod at

841
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:44,279
Speaker 1: gmail dot com. Thanks so much, guys, Take care,