Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Wheel of Death. Every week on
Speaker 1: Wheel of Death week, No, Sophie's I liked it, go
Speaker 1: for it, Okay, Wheel of Death. I'm your host, Mario Kildrey,
Speaker 1: and each week I tell you about cool people in
Speaker 1: his No, I have to like continue the Wheel of
Speaker 1: Death thing. I can't just cut back to the This
Speaker 1: week on Wheel of Death, we talked to you about
Speaker 1: a cool thing that is a wheel that that leads
Speaker 1: to death, which is also cool. We're all strapped to
Speaker 1: it's the cycle of time. We didn't really do it,
Speaker 1: but we somehe did it. Yeay, Okay. I'm your host,
Speaker 1: Mario Kildroy. I'm cool people did cool stuff, and every
Speaker 1: week I tell you about cool people in history like
Speaker 1: rebels and queers and rebel queers and you know, people
Speaker 1: who dress up like animals and throw bricks at rich
Speaker 1: people's houses sometime vaguely in the name of God. With
Speaker 1: me today is my guest Garrison, Davis Garrison, how are
Speaker 1: you hi? I was excited. I was. I was really
Speaker 1: on the edge of my seat with the whole Wheel
Speaker 1: of Death bed. I was like, oh wow, there's so
Speaker 1: many places that this could go. Yeah, it didn't It
Speaker 1: wasn't considered well ahead of time. That's all right, a
Speaker 1: metaphor in there, but the real wheel of death is
Speaker 1: just living in collapsing capitalist dystophia. That's right. And Garrison,
Speaker 1: who are you besides someone who lives in a collapsing
Speaker 1: wheel of death? Um? I write podcasts a lot of
Speaker 1: the time for a show called it Could Happen Here. Um.
Speaker 1: I also occasionally do investigative journalism and spend a lot
Speaker 1: of my time looking at upsetting things and most importantly
Speaker 1: have really really cute cats. Yeah, yeah, I do, I do. Yeah. Okay, Well,
Speaker 1: the other voice that you've heard is Sophie, our producer. Hi, Sophie,
Speaker 1: are you excited for the break? Yeah? This is the
Speaker 1: last the last week of episodes for the year. Um,
Speaker 1: cool people to cool stuff and cools. The Meani are
Speaker 1: taking time off for a little it to. I was
Speaker 1: gonna say take a break, but I really feel like
Speaker 1: we're not catch up on work. Every year every year
Speaker 1: Robert and I are like a time off and then
Speaker 1: it's like no, a yeah, but I get to pet
Speaker 1: some some cool dogs and some cool cats and some
Speaker 1: cool goats, and uh, it's going to be a good time.
Speaker 1: Yeay our audio engineers, Ian. Our music was made by
Speaker 1: the incomparable musician on Woman. Thank you Ian for editing
Speaker 1: our stuff all year your We are very appreciative, Ian
Speaker 1: High I So Garrison. This week we're going to talk
Speaker 1: about something dear to my heart, near to my heart, whatever,
Speaker 1: it's both we're going to talk about have you ever
Speaker 1: heard of this holiday? Christmas kind of So? I grew
Speaker 1: up very putting christ in Christmas pilled. Yeah. I I
Speaker 1: never really got to experience any like secular Christmas. Like
Speaker 1: I never once believed in Santa at all, because that
Speaker 1: was because if you re arrange Santa at Satan like,
Speaker 1: it's it's never yeah, it's I it was very like,
Speaker 1: you know, we have to read all these chapters of
Speaker 1: the Bible and will exchange gifts and stuff. But it
Speaker 1: was it was, you know, we'll we'll go to like
Speaker 1: the the Christmas themed like Nativity show, and you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's all all all that kind of thing. Did
Speaker 1: they ever in this, in this upbringing that you had
Speaker 1: around Christmas? Did they? Did they refer to it as
Speaker 1: like a traditional way of handling Christmas? Ever, I'm just curious.
Speaker 1: I mean they traditional in the sense of like they
Speaker 1: would they would complain about how Christmas has been like
Speaker 1: commercialized by like secular corporations and been turned into this
Speaker 1: thing about that's just about buying things now, not that
Speaker 1: they're actually against buying things, because they're still all like
Speaker 1: list Christians, but they'd be like, oh, they're they're trying
Speaker 1: to trying to just all of the malls and all
Speaker 1: of the all the big businesses are trying to distract
Speaker 1: from the true meaning of Christmas in the traditional sense
Speaker 1: of of of being you know, in the major Well,
Speaker 1: today we're gonna talk about traditional Christmas, which is not
Speaker 1: at all what your family celebrated. It's it's not a
Speaker 1: historical We're going to talk about the War on Christmas,
Speaker 1: and not the way that we usually hear about it.
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about the seventeen hundred year long
Speaker 1: war on Christmas, waged by people who hate fun, who
Speaker 1: have tried to sanitize and strip away all the beauty
Speaker 1: and glory and gayness and rebellion out of one of
Speaker 1: the most riotous and wonderful times of the year, the
Speaker 1: fucking winter solstice. We're going to talk about feasting and
Speaker 1: was sailing and Saturnalia, Yule Christmas, actual bona fide Christmas,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna talk to some ship on Purison's ready
Speaker 1: for the Saturn back in Saturnalia. Yeah, I guess I
Speaker 1: don't really know enough about Saturnest. Yeah sure, yeah, yep. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm going to start by covering a bunch of different holidays,
Speaker 1: because there are so many holidays that share this time period.
Speaker 1: And I'm not even talking about or like yeah, so
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about that stuff. I'm talking about stuff
Speaker 1: within the sort of Christian origin, so like you'le tide
Speaker 1: greetings and we're like kind of in that, all right,
Speaker 1: all right, yeah, And I want to start with the
Speaker 1: like weirdly most earnest one that I'm excited about, and St.
Speaker 1: Lucy's Day. You heard of St. Lucy's Day? I have.
Speaker 1: I just heard about St. Lucy's Day earlier this year,
Speaker 1: but I did not look into it. I just I
Speaker 1: just saw it was the thing. I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's not St. Nicholas. I wonder who that is? And
Speaker 1: then I continued on in my day fair enough that is, uh,
Speaker 1: I am new to St. Lucy's Day. So okay, you
Speaker 1: know how any given group of people can be oppressors
Speaker 1: or oppressed pretty much just based on their relationship to power.
Speaker 1: Yeah that is yeah, I mean, huh so. The Christians
Speaker 1: were oppressed for a while, like a long time ago,
Speaker 1: for about two thousand years ago until the early three hundreds,
Speaker 1: you know, when they became a whatever. The opposite of
Speaker 1: oppressed is. I'm not sure you saying there's still not
Speaker 1: the most persecuted religion on the planet, because that's because
Speaker 1: that's what I was taught as well. Oh interesting, No,
Speaker 1: I genuinely do not believe. So while they were actually
Speaker 1: being oppressed, they did all the stuff they should have
Speaker 1: done while being oppressed, which is fight against that oppression.
Speaker 1: And the early Catholics were like pretty notorious for mapping
Speaker 1: all their stuff, all their stuff on the pagan holidays. Right.
Speaker 1: The story that usually gets told is that the crafty
Speaker 1: church was like, how do we steal stuff from the Pagans? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: And that part's sort of true. But the other thing
Speaker 1: that was happening is Catholicism in particular is famous for
Speaker 1: its syncreticism. Yeah, or syncretism or you think I would
Speaker 1: have looked up how to pronounce the most important word
Speaker 1: and what I'm talking about today. The Catholic Church shows
Speaker 1: up somewhere and it's like, you're all Catholic now, and
Speaker 1: people are like, all right, what does that mean? And
Speaker 1: the church is like, we'll tell you in Latin. And
Speaker 1: people are like, I don't speak Latin, and the church says,
Speaker 1: non meh cury est, which is my my Latin joke.
Speaker 1: It means, that's not my problem. Very funny. Yeah, thank you. Um,
Speaker 1: I don't speak Latin either, I yeah, me neither. Ye.
Speaker 1: So you know, it's the it's the fucking forever ago times.
Speaker 1: People don't have radio yet. So the pope in the
Speaker 1: Church and even the Roman Empire of a little bit
Speaker 1: of a problem with power projection and that they can
Speaker 1: conquer places, but communication is so slow that places continue
Speaker 1: to have a decent bit of autonomy. Um, this is
Speaker 1: an oversimplification, but you get syncretics. Syncreticism based based on
Speaker 1: this ship that's halfway Catholic and halfway whatever else people
Speaker 1: already had going on. So people kept celebrating their holidays
Speaker 1: and the Church was left with little choice but to
Speaker 1: accept those holidays and kind of do the best it
Speaker 1: could to rebrand them. But in many ways and That's
Speaker 1: the sort of central argument I'm gonna make today, is
Speaker 1: that people just kept doing the things that they were
Speaker 1: doing for thousands of years and just being like, okay,
Speaker 1: it's Christian now, yeah, now they got told that there's
Speaker 1: like some jesusy wrapping over top of something that that
Speaker 1: predates all of that. Yeah, yeah, And as long as
Speaker 1: they can still cross dress and like bring trees inside
Speaker 1: and demand ship from rich people, what do they care?
Speaker 1: And you know, the most famous like the examples of
Speaker 1: this we can see is like Easter is really obviously
Speaker 1: fertility spring, like yes, spring thing. There's nothing to do
Speaker 1: with Jesus. It's about eggs for fox sake, and like bunnies.
Speaker 1: So Christmas happening around Solstice is not a coincidence. But
Speaker 1: there's another not a coincidence Catholic winter Solstice celebration. And
Speaker 1: this one was like in some places and specifically in Scandinavia,
Speaker 1: it's even more explicitly not a coincidence. That is a
Speaker 1: Solstice thing because it's a celebration of light. And the
Speaker 1: reason Catholics ended up with more than one Solstice holiday
Speaker 1: is because of the calendar funk up. So like one
Speaker 1: of them is December thirteen. One of them is December twenty,
Speaker 1: and it's because of weird Julian Gregory and ship that's
Speaker 1: totally over my head, got it. The Feast of St. Lucia. St.
Speaker 1: Lucy's Day especially popular in Scandinavia for some obvious reason. Uh, Like,
Speaker 1: it's dark there. It happens on December, and it's a
Speaker 1: celebration of light, and it's the story of a martyr Lucia.
Speaker 1: But it's also the story of mutual aid done at
Speaker 1: a terrible risk, which is why I like it and
Speaker 1: also not wanting to marry some asshole you don't like.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote a zine by my friend Renna Ry,
Speaker 1: who has been on this podcast before. St lucy official
Speaker 1: hagiography or a Catholic saint biography is violent and sort
Speaker 1: of boring. In brief, she was a Christian living in
Speaker 1: the late two when Rome had a policy of rounding
Speaker 1: up and executing members of this at that time fringe
Speaker 1: religious movement. When she was forced to marry this high
Speaker 1: up Roman government dude, Lucy tore out her own eyes
Speaker 1: to prevent the wedding. In the midst of all of this,
Speaker 1: Lucy's Christianity was discovered and she was executed in this
Speaker 1: horrible way. I won't go into and became a martyr,
Speaker 1: but I find Lucy's death to be way less interesting
Speaker 1: than her life as a well off Greek Sicilian Greeks
Speaker 1: ruled the island before Romans did. She had resources and
Speaker 1: used them to support fellow Christians and hiding in the
Speaker 1: catacombs beneath her hometown of Syracusa, sneaking out of her
Speaker 1: house at night, she brought them food and to keep
Speaker 1: her hands free to carry provisions. She lit the path
Speaker 1: through the catacombs by wearing a crown of candles on
Speaker 1: her head, which is just an image I like because
Speaker 1: it's really fucking metal. Yeah, And to quote a little
Speaker 1: bit more from that z and the Zene is called
Speaker 1: on St. Lucy, the Solstice and mutual Aid. The story
Speaker 1: doesn't begin with a martyr plucking out her own eyes
Speaker 1: or a saint sending a ship full of grained with
Speaker 1: starving city, which is a later part of the whole
Speaker 1: thing that I'm not going to go into. It starts
Speaker 1: with a simpler miracle, a young girl walking through catacombs
Speaker 1: beneath an occupied city, her arms full of emmer loaves,
Speaker 1: cheap wine, garam and oranges. The limestone path lit by
Speaker 1: candles bound to her head. She moves slowly, careful not
Speaker 1: to drop her load or cry out when hot wax
Speaker 1: strips on her shoulders. Roman centuries guard Syracusa and are
Speaker 1: always listening. At the end of maze of tunnels is
Speaker 1: an alcove where herodics worshippers of a tripart god, a
Speaker 1: sort of Orpheus, have made a home. They reached for
Speaker 1: her bundles, stuffed bits of bread into their mouth, take
Speaker 1: swigs of wine, say bless you, bless you daughter, and
Speaker 1: a lot of the rest of her story, basically all
Speaker 1: of our story. It's buried under so much fucking I
Speaker 1: I Am a Catholic saint thing that it's impossible to
Speaker 1: tell what actually happened. Right. She was like versions where
Speaker 1: she lost her eyes that got added a thousand years later.
Speaker 1: The earlier ones don't talk about her losing her eyes.
Speaker 1: Wren makes the argument that maybe the whole thing about
Speaker 1: a suitor and all that stuff is beside the point,
Speaker 1: and it was actually just the mutual aig ship that matters.
Speaker 1: So that's that's the setting, the scene that's going to
Speaker 1: be the one of the Solstice days. I mean, I
Speaker 1: have so much more sympathy for this era of Christianity,
Speaker 1: especially the people who are kind of more on the
Speaker 1: gnostic side of it at this point. Yeah, before the
Speaker 1: before the Catholics like teamed up with the state. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because like all of this type of stuff that you're
Speaker 1: talking about sounds way more cool and metal. It's like
Speaker 1: it's been it's people trying to like it's it's it's
Speaker 1: it's doing way more interesting like mysticism that's divorced from
Speaker 1: a lot of the like um dogmatic practices that were
Speaker 1: that were common at the times. People trying to sort
Speaker 1: through trying to trying to build stories about about like
Speaker 1: spiritual development in a world that is currently under threat
Speaker 1: of empire, and that that's why they're trying to find
Speaker 1: new ways to build other forms of spirituality. And it's
Speaker 1: it's so much it's so much cooler. And then, as
Speaker 1: as is often the case, the people then once they
Speaker 1: gained power, became the oppressors themselves. Yep, yep. No that
Speaker 1: this is the fact that you come from a conservative
Speaker 1: Christian background and then also are really into narcissism and
Speaker 1: ship was like why I really wanted you to be
Speaker 1: on this sweet. So there's another holiday that the Christians
Speaker 1: celebrate around the same time of year. It's that one
Speaker 1: that again you've you've heard of many people are familiar with.
Speaker 1: It's called Christmas, and the canonical story of Christmas goes
Speaker 1: something like this. There was this couple Mary and Joseph.
Speaker 1: They weren't fucking for whatever reason. Maybe Joseph was gay
Speaker 1: and was keeping Merry around to be his beard. I
Speaker 1: think supposedly God was like, hey, don't fuck your wife
Speaker 1: until she has a son. I don't think too hard
Speaker 1: about this anyway. One night, an angel shows up visits Mary.
Speaker 1: He's probably a series of spinning, concentric rings or something
Speaker 1: like one can help. Yeah, and he's like, this is
Speaker 1: totally chill, don't don't freak out. Let's let's do it.
Speaker 1: And Mary is like, yeah, let's do it. And then,
Speaker 1: I mean, I would if if a series of concentric
Speaker 1: eyeball rings showed up at my bedroom at three a m.
Speaker 1: I know what I would do immediately. But yeah, I mean, like,
Speaker 1: there's to be at least seventeen eyes or I'm not interested. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, and thankfully there is there is eyes eyes
Speaker 1: within eyes. So I think I think the bases are
Speaker 1: are going to be covered. Yeah, I I think much
Speaker 1: like Mary, we were good. That's enough, right, And she
Speaker 1: gets pregnant. Joseph is like, sweet, this is totally cool
Speaker 1: with me. And then at the end of December in
Speaker 1: the Manger, they give birth to a kid who was
Speaker 1: pretty much guaranteed to be a transman since um, the
Speaker 1: kid's name is Jesus Christ, but he has no dad
Speaker 1: so therefore he has no Y chromosome, so he's sex
Speaker 1: to say nothing of course about Eve, who was cloned
Speaker 1: from Adam and is there for x Y. So so true. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is what's really important, you know. There's also so
Speaker 1: like there is this version of the story that that
Speaker 1: we're else that is often taught in church, but some
Speaker 1: people in church would also teach a slightly different version
Speaker 1: of the story in which we don't actually know when
Speaker 1: Jesus was born. Oh yeah, but the date of December
Speaker 1: comes comes from the comes from the magicians coming to
Speaker 1: visit Jesus, and they mapped out where he would be
Speaker 1: based on like star charts and and and that, and
Speaker 1: that led them to figure out where he would be
Speaker 1: on December. So like years later, the magicians came with gifts.
Speaker 1: They came on December, which is then why we give
Speaker 1: gifts on Christmas. That that is the other story that
Speaker 1: they were that was told, which is weird because it's
Speaker 1: not only including like astrology, it's also including like actual magicians,
Speaker 1: which most most ambodied Christianity doesn't really like to talk about. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the fact that three sorcerers are like an important part
Speaker 1: of the Jesus story is really interesting. It's so weird
Speaker 1: and in the like more medieval Christmas that we're gonna
Speaker 1: be talking about. The Maji show up twelve days later
Speaker 1: as the twelve Days of Christmas and it's called Epiphany.
Speaker 1: It's January six. And then there's like I read like
Speaker 1: five different versions of how they came up with December
Speaker 1: twenty five. I didn't hear that one. That one's really interesting.
Speaker 1: It doesn't say anywhere in the Bible when no, this
Speaker 1: is this is pure pure speculation. Yeah, okay, So our
Speaker 1: guy Jesus, he grows up to be really important, he
Speaker 1: gets murdered by the state, like actually a lot of
Speaker 1: our heroes. I'm not really trying to pain him as
Speaker 1: a cool people that whatever. He's fun and complicated. I'm
Speaker 1: not opening that. I've opened a lot of cans of
Speaker 1: worms right now, but I'm not opening that one. People
Speaker 1: celebrate his birthday by buying PlayStations or whatever and then
Speaker 1: getting really mad about living in a multicultural society where
Speaker 1: not everyone believes in Santa Claus who is totally not
Speaker 1: aware goat from Finland. But we'll talk about that later.
Speaker 1: Based So that's the story of Christmas. It's boring. Let's
Speaker 1: tell a better one. Christianity's whole claim to fame is
Speaker 1: that it's not paganism. Like they pretty much defined paganism
Speaker 1: as like not us, right, that is like what it
Speaker 1: means to be pagan in a lot of ways. But Christianity,
Speaker 1: especially Catholicism, is so fucking pagan. It's extremely pagan, and
Speaker 1: that's kind of the main thing it has going for
Speaker 1: it from my point of view as a you know,
Speaker 1: folk Catholic or lapsed Catholic, whatever the funk I am.
Speaker 1: There's blood sacrifice, there's blood drinking, there's cannibalism. There's tons
Speaker 1: of gods with shrines that you can go around and
Speaker 1: pray to, like you're in Skyrim visiting DeAndre Trent is
Speaker 1: like transmutation of it's it's weird stuff. Yeah. You can
Speaker 1: walk around with a crown of thorns. You can walk
Speaker 1: around with a crown of candles. You can weave branches
Speaker 1: into wreaths, you can decorate trees, you can cross stress,
Speaker 1: you can carry a horse skull around. You can demand
Speaker 1: rich people give you ship. You can get drunk and
Speaker 1: accost the aforementioned rich people. Um, lots of stuff. You
Speaker 1: can do. Christmas, nowhere in the Bible doesn't mention jesus birthday,
Speaker 1: and the fourth century the Church was like, let's say
Speaker 1: it's winter solstice nine months after spring equinox, which was
Speaker 1: when he was conceived, because the angel and Mary got
Speaker 1: dirty during the fertility rites, which is like again, if
Speaker 1: if if you're looking at this from like a from
Speaker 1: like an anthropological standpoint or like a standpoint of like
Speaker 1: pagan folk rituals, you're like, yeah, that obviously makes sense.
Speaker 1: There's a reason why the story is told in this way. Yeah, no, totally.
Speaker 1: And let's have our God be born on the exact
Speaker 1: day that the sun begins to return to the world,
Speaker 1: because truly not pagan and this isn't also the holy
Speaker 1: day of soul in Victus, which was declared twenty five
Speaker 1: years earlier or twenty six years earlier or something. Jesus
Speaker 1: totally isn't just another Sun god, Nope, son Sun Sun God,
Speaker 1: son of God anyway. Yeah, yeah, so December twenty five
Speaker 1: had or rather this I think is specifically December twenty five.
Speaker 1: I should have put this in my notes. I've spent
Speaker 1: so long reading a million different fucking holidays and it
Speaker 1: got all confused. Uh, the holy day of Soul in Victus,
Speaker 1: which is the unconquered Son, which is the official religion
Speaker 1: of Rome before Christianity took over, but not by a
Speaker 1: long time. So Soul in Victus is fucking weird. Um,
Speaker 1: And most of the people I know who are like
Speaker 1: most of the people I read about who're into Soul
Speaker 1: Invictus or not. Like, if you meet someone who's like, man,
Speaker 1: you know what rules like Imperial Rome, you're not meeting
Speaker 1: a good person. Red red flag. Yeah, So it would
Speaker 1: be too easy to say Christmas is just the continued
Speaker 1: celebration of Soul in Victus. It wouldn't really be true.
Speaker 1: The a lot of arguments happening about how the worship
Speaker 1: of Soul and Rome, which was sort of predate soul
Speaker 1: Invictus or doesn't. There's like lots of fucking arguments you
Speaker 1: can get into. But specifically Christmas revelers took more from
Speaker 1: other traditions, specifically medieval Christmas, which is my favorite. Christmas
Speaker 1: took a lot from saturn Alia. Yes, so let's talk
Speaker 1: about saturn Alia. Saturn was a god of time and
Speaker 1: abundance and agriculture and liberation and a bunch of other ship.
Speaker 1: Roman gods had very expansive portfolios. It was very impressive.
Speaker 1: They do seem to collect a lot of like I
Speaker 1: don't like magic cars, Like they have a really strong hand,
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, um Rome was around for a long time.
Speaker 1: Rome is still around, but like ancient Rome as a
Speaker 1: sort of imperial force around for a long time. And
Speaker 1: before there was the Feast of Soul in Victus, there
Speaker 1: was saturn Alia. It was a week long festival centered
Speaker 1: on winter solstice. And there's not like a specific pamphlet.
Speaker 1: Historians have found that's like in Latin and it's like
Speaker 1: how to celebrate Saturnalia. Instead, people have had to cobble
Speaker 1: together the best that people can understand, and so it's
Speaker 1: probably like conflating a lot of different times because this
Speaker 1: was celebrated for a very long time. But Saturnalia absolutely happened,
Speaker 1: and we know some stuff about it, and it's fucking interesting.
Speaker 1: For a week, masters served their slaves and every which
Speaker 1: is this role reversal thing that was going to come
Speaker 1: up again and again. Everyone wore bright, tacky clothes against
Speaker 1: the style at the time. Everyone got free speech for
Speaker 1: a hot minute, so everyone basically told their bosses and
Speaker 1: their masters and ship what was up. People gambled, which
Speaker 1: wasn't normally allowed. They used coins and nuts for their gambling,
Speaker 1: and they gave everyone presence. The festivities were presided over
Speaker 1: by the Lord of Saturnalia, which was decided by drawing lots.
Speaker 1: Everyone got together and drew a lot. If you won
Speaker 1: or lost, depending on how you looked at it and
Speaker 1: depending on how anthropologists are interpreting this particular thing, you
Speaker 1: become king for the week. You're the King of Saturnalia.
Speaker 1: You're not actually really in charge, although everyone has to
Speaker 1: do what you say. It's but you're in charge of
Speaker 1: sewing chaos. You give commands everyone has to follow, and yeah,
Speaker 1: I'd be like, I don't know. Everyone stand on their
Speaker 1: head and run around and do whatever weird? Should I
Speaker 1: come up with a lot of pressure actually to be
Speaker 1: the the Lord of Saturnalia, you'd be like, I have
Speaker 1: to be the most hedonistic that anyone has ever been.
Speaker 1: I have to plan to be the most chaotic thing,
Speaker 1: which is it's challenging. It's it's it is. It can
Speaker 1: be challenging to plan to plan out chaos because chaos
Speaker 1: is often spontaneous. Yeah. Do you know what else is
Speaker 1: chaotic and disruptive of our narrative? Oh? Is it capitalism?
Speaker 1: Trying to convince you to buy things? It is um
Speaker 1: in this very well fitting here, learn about some ship
Speaker 1: you can buy while I complain about what happened to
Speaker 1: traditional Christmas, which is supposed to be about chaos, not
Speaker 1: Christ and not well presence. Yes, actually maybe it is
Speaker 1: a return to traditional Christmas. Who's to know? Return with
Speaker 1: a V. Yeah, here's some ads and we are back,
Speaker 1: and I don't get the reference. Return with a V. Oh,
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just doing a just a small Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was like, I was like, you're you're doing some
Speaker 1: light fascism right there, like the Roman, like when you
Speaker 1: like carve it into stone and like to use a
Speaker 1: V instead of a you got it. I'm I'm aware
Speaker 1: of contemporary politics and how they refer to ancient things.
Speaker 1: That's literally my job is ancient ings. That's true too.
Speaker 1: So there's also human sacrifice, which is fairly chaotic, I
Speaker 1: will say, because like chaos is not inherently good or bad, right, No,
Speaker 1: chaos is beyond pastic like leading. So yeah, thanks, thanks,
Speaker 1: So the exact type of human sacrifices subject to debate.
Speaker 1: Dead gladiators were definitely offered up to the god's saturn,
Speaker 1: and I feel like that's like halfway cheating in terms
Speaker 1: of human sacrifice because the guy is dead already, right,
Speaker 1: But yeah, also at the same time, he died because
Speaker 1: you had a being a gladia Yeah yeah, yeah, which
Speaker 1: the whole gladiator thing whatever, I'm not gonna do a
Speaker 1: total tangent on It's way different and more interesting. You think,
Speaker 1: it's not just two people go into a death pit
Speaker 1: and one person leaves. It's not beyond thunderdome gladiators actually
Speaker 1: like often survived and lived fairly long lives, and people
Speaker 1: didn't die every time because it was this fucking sporting
Speaker 1: event that happened for hundreds of years. Like, it's more
Speaker 1: like how people play football and get horrible concussions to
Speaker 1: shorten their lifespan. Yeah, it's like halfway between mm A
Speaker 1: fights slash professional football and what we conceive of as
Speaker 1: gladiator fights. I feel like it's the actual gladiator fights.
Speaker 1: Got it. But people did die and probably more during
Speaker 1: Saturnalia for some because they needed some dead people get
Speaker 1: offered up to the god. Later, the Romans were like,
Speaker 1: what if we use candles as representatives of human life
Speaker 1: and we sacrifice these candles by lighting tapers. So it's
Speaker 1: possible that the tapers part of Christmas where everyone has
Speaker 1: taper candles, It's possible that that traces back to fast
Speaker 1: advising humans. Really really makes you look at those candles differently, huh. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's also possible that the Lord of Saturnalia, after being
Speaker 1: king for a week, was sacrificed to Saturn, which is
Speaker 1: like way more metal and full car of a story. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what a weird few weeks that would be. Wow. I know,
Speaker 1: I know you're like, you just like go out with
Speaker 1: a bang, you know. I guess so you just you
Speaker 1: you don't care what happens because it doesn't matter for you.
Speaker 1: That would increase the chaos, yes, yeah, and uh and
Speaker 1: I this is not my favorite part because I don't
Speaker 1: think you should slit fake king's throats. Um, that's what
Speaker 1: real kings are for. Yeah. Shortly after Saturnalia was the
Speaker 1: first day of the new year Colens and Colens is
Speaker 1: actually the first day of any month, and this whole thing.
Speaker 1: You got a holiday first day of every month, but Colens.
Speaker 1: The first day of January New Year's Day was like
Speaker 1: a real big one. And Colens, there were gifts. In
Speaker 1: the northern regions of the Empire. There was cross dressing,
Speaker 1: just like a fuck ton of cross dressing. It gets
Speaker 1: called ritual trendsvestis um unfathomably based. And this continues for
Speaker 1: thousands of years. I will just say, someone say, people
Speaker 1: are still doing it now. I know. If you want
Speaker 1: to celebrate traditional Christmas, go to a drag show that
Speaker 1: is more traditional of for Christmas. I I that is
Speaker 1: what my plans are, all right, great, and also dressing
Speaker 1: up like animals just part of it, all part of Colens.
Speaker 1: This goes in great because I'm going to a dreg
Speaker 1: show dressed up as cat will because I'm going to
Speaker 1: a Batman Returns themed drag show, which is as we know,
Speaker 1: the best Christmas movie, so I will be both both
Speaker 1: both cross dressing and where it could animal costume true
Speaker 1: Colenn's spirit right there, Michelle Piper is really a Clen's icon.
Speaker 1: Absolutely do you know? And this? Do you know who
Speaker 1: that is? Margaret? Yes, as an actress who is in
Speaker 1: movies that were around when I was younger. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: I couldn't pick her out of a lineup or tell
Speaker 1: you what movies she's in. Besides, apparently she's Catwoman. Hilarious.
Speaker 1: And in my defense, I am both name blind and
Speaker 1: face blind. I pretty much keep track of everyone based
Speaker 1: on their haircut and if they could change their haircut,
Speaker 1: they're different people. Yeah. So sometimes when I write my scripts,
Speaker 1: I forget to put in names because I'm like, no,
Speaker 1: one don't remember a name. It's a meaningless signifier. Why
Speaker 1: would you names? It's just red to both flaps, It
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. Yeah. Uh, this is the closest I can
Speaker 1: find to a true origin of Christmas is Saturnalia. There's
Speaker 1: other stuff and we're gonna get to it. We're gonna
Speaker 1: get to Yule in a second. But celebrating the darkest
Speaker 1: time of the year with chaos, revelry, and roll reversal.
Speaker 1: So let's talk about more of that. Let's talk about Yule.
Speaker 1: So Christmas barrows a lot from Saturnalia, but Christmas gets
Speaker 1: called Yule sometimes, right, And that's the stuff of Germanic paganism.
Speaker 1: We don't know a ton about Yule as it was
Speaker 1: actually celebrated because a lot of Germanic pagan information was
Speaker 1: filtered through Christian observers, which is really interesting. For this
Speaker 1: is my main one of my main arguments that used
Speaker 1: against like the Nazi Germanic pagan types is that I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: you like specifically think all of these specific things that
Speaker 1: are very similar to Christianity. That's totally not because a
Speaker 1: Christian monk told you that a single man was the
Speaker 1: most important fucking anyway, whatever. What is important is that
Speaker 1: we're going too adds again again. Just it's really important
Speaker 1: that we get to add breaks in this episode. That's
Speaker 1: what's important in life. So here's here's some of them,
Speaker 1: and we're back full. It was a twelve day celebration. Uh.
Speaker 1: The name Yule literally means Odin um oh I did
Speaker 1: I did? I did not put that together? Yeah. One
Speaker 1: of Odin's many names is j O L with some
Speaker 1: marks over it. Yeah, it's pronounced basically, you'll from Old
Speaker 1: Norse and you will the big old feast. There's ale,
Speaker 1: there's sacrifice, including probably human sacrifice at various points. Um,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of stories about prisoners of war from
Speaker 1: Rome being human sacrifice. People can get a fun arguments
Speaker 1: about this stuff. Um, I'm like more worried about offending
Speaker 1: the Norwee Boos than the Christians in terms of like
Speaker 1: people who are going to get up in my mentions
Speaker 1: about this ship. But and when they would do these
Speaker 1: sacrifices um called block I think was the Germanic pagan
Speaker 1: style of sacrifice. You intentionally cut the throat so that
Speaker 1: arterial blood goes all over everyone in the audience. And
Speaker 1: so then they would sit down a feast and this
Speaker 1: I know more about them sacrificing animals. But then they
Speaker 1: like sacrifice the animal and then they eat the animal,
Speaker 1: which doesn't seem like a sacrifice. Yeah, that's that's that's like,
Speaker 1: that's like preparing it for slaughter to like eat, yeah,
Speaker 1: and be like I don't know, like yeah, I don't know,
Speaker 1: it doesn't seem like you're given up much. If I'm
Speaker 1: like I've I'm prepared to sacrifice a lot by continuing
Speaker 1: to have what I have. I'll have it in your name,
Speaker 1: dear all Father. But you know whatever, I'm who am
Speaker 1: I to tell them that they're doing their sacrifice wrong.
Speaker 1: They sit down and eat feasts covered in blood, and
Speaker 1: if I had anything to say to them, they would
Speaker 1: murder me so and they would feast. The burning of
Speaker 1: the Yule log comes from this tradition, and the Yule tree,
Speaker 1: the Christmas tree, you'll be shocked to know comes from Yule. Really,
Speaker 1: it's it's not a representative of the Tree of life,
Speaker 1: like what I learned. Oh yeah, no it is not.
Speaker 1: I mean, it could be many things, uh, but yeah, no, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: it's about like basically like if you're cold, they're cold,
Speaker 1: bring them in about like tree spirits. That's that's great,
Speaker 1: But um, that's actually that's actually pretty rad. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: I actually assumed that the bringing the tree inside was
Speaker 1: like a when it became a Christmas tree, because it
Speaker 1: seems like a very modern, destructive consumers thing to like
Speaker 1: cut down a living tree and put it in your
Speaker 1: house and watch it slowly rot. But they bringing the
Speaker 1: tree inside to decorate was was often part of it.
Speaker 1: And they would also like decorate their houses like branches
Speaker 1: and wreaths and ship and they would decorate trees with
Speaker 1: images and icons of everything that they wanted to bring
Speaker 1: in with the new year. So it wasn't even just
Speaker 1: specifically like oh, we want the tree to look pretty,
Speaker 1: but like like it in my house. We you know,
Speaker 1: decorate the tree with all of these different Christmas ornaments
Speaker 1: that are very like specific and particular in all of
Speaker 1: memories associate with them. That is very fucking traditional Yule Christmas.
Speaker 1: And also deck rating the tree with nuts as probably
Speaker 1: a fertility thing. Everything was a fertility thing that obsessed
Speaker 1: with sex. What's wrong with these people? One problem with
Speaker 1: researching anything pagan is that there's a ton of fake
Speaker 1: history around and or not even like fake history, but
Speaker 1: like incorrect information or like best guesses that get presented
Speaker 1: as fact. And I mean, I'm literally doing my best
Speaker 1: guess is presented with as fact. But I'm trying to
Speaker 1: be aware of that. There's this persistent rumor, and I'm
Speaker 1: wondering if you've heard this rumor that the decorating of
Speaker 1: trees and Pagan times was like and trails of sacrifice. No,
Speaker 1: I've not heard that, but I mean I could, I
Speaker 1: could see how you would be like Christmas Garland. It's
Speaker 1: like hanging intestines around the tree. Yeah, I can't find
Speaker 1: any information besides like lots of people talking about that rumor.
Speaker 1: No one's like this is a true thing. Well, there
Speaker 1: are some things, but they're on like really, they're like
Speaker 1: on websites that might as well be geo cities with
Speaker 1: like animated gifts of candles or whatever. You know, it's
Speaker 1: completely possible. I don't fucking know, but candles and nuts
Speaker 1: and fruits and icons and shipped on the tree. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: And like Colens in Rome, ull came with men dressing
Speaker 1: like women, women dressing like men, and all everyone dressing
Speaker 1: up like animals. Because as soon as you have a
Speaker 1: moment where you like drop social norms, everyone's like fuck
Speaker 1: yeah timed to cross dress and that rules. The dressing
Speaker 1: like animals was like probably a little bit less like
Speaker 1: modern furry culture and a little bit more like I'm
Speaker 1: a spooky ghost. Here's the skull of an animal or whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's kind of more more more in line with some
Speaker 1: of our current Halloween stuff. Yeah. Absolutely, there's actually a
Speaker 1: lot of weird overlap. We're gonna get to a sailing later.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of overlap between Halloween and Christmas and
Speaker 1: all of these like chaos traditions. They basically kind of
Speaker 1: split out the chaos parts of Christmas and gave it
Speaker 1: to how Loween. Also, both Collens and Yule had leaving
Speaker 1: food out for the deities, I mean, Santa Claus whatever
Speaker 1: the angles like of the Anglo Saxons called the main
Speaker 1: knight of Yule Mother's Night, only they called it in English,
Speaker 1: sort of English. And the food was left out for
Speaker 1: the Hungry Mother spirits because they just wanted to be medalist.
Speaker 1: Fuck right, And I'm really into this, especially since I'm
Speaker 1: pretty sure it was my mom who left eight the
Speaker 1: cookies we left out for Santa Hungry Mother. Missiletoe may
Speaker 1: or may not have come from Yule specifically, it wasn't
Speaker 1: a Christmas thing until the eighteenth century. The missiletoe got
Speaker 1: like added either back in or added in for the
Speaker 1: first time. But missiletoe is pagan as fuck. The white
Speaker 1: berries are the semen of the gods. Alrighty then, okay,
Speaker 1: it was like everyone who's like doing something else will
Speaker 1: into this episode. Is like everyone which is interesting because
Speaker 1: they're poisonous as fuck, you know, you know. So Nope,
Speaker 1: not gonna make too easy, too easy, too easy of
Speaker 1: jokes to make not doing it. Okay, Well I was
Speaker 1: gonna say, it's a note to self about don't go
Speaker 1: down on God's Oh ah see, I can't. I can't.
Speaker 1: I cannot support that though. Sorry, you're willing to You're
Speaker 1: willing to risk the Yeah, the poison. Yeah, here's here's like,
Speaker 1: as a matter of fact, that's what I'm doing after this. No,
Speaker 1: this like a series of concentric eye rings shows up
Speaker 1: in the background on the Gears screen, mistletoe garlands everywhere. Amazing. Um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, and this is like, how so is this
Speaker 1: incredibly potent fertility symbol the missiletoe because it's like the
Speaker 1: Seman tree or whatever. Um. And so this is how
Speaker 1: powerful syncretism is because it said, the fucking eighteenth century
Speaker 1: and people are still adding new fertility rights into Christmas ship.
Speaker 1: This wasn't even one that like held on the whole time.
Speaker 1: This was like in the eighteenth century people were like,
Speaker 1: you want to you want to bring that which ship
Speaker 1: back into this and everyone's like yeah, I do. Like,
Speaker 1: let's make out under the fucking under God's semen um.
Speaker 1: Another thing that comes from le so Odin is one
Speaker 1: of the central figures of Yule because it's literally named
Speaker 1: after him, and Yule is famed for the Wild Hunt,
Speaker 1: and the Wild Hunt is found in a ton of cultures.
Speaker 1: I really like the Wild Hunt, especially the Canadian two
Speaker 1: thousand nine film called The Wild Hunt. I watched that.
Speaker 1: It's a large gone wrong movie. Oh, I feel like you.
Speaker 1: We have talked. We have talked about this before. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've tried to make everyone watch it. We almost watched this,
Speaker 1: and instead we watched night Writers, Night Writers, which was
Speaker 1: not a bad choice. Writers thing. Again, Robert will hear
Speaker 1: us and then bring it up in every conversation for
Speaker 1: at least two months. We don't okay, we don't need this. Well,
Speaker 1: the movie The Wild Hunt. A lot of my LARPer
Speaker 1: friends don't like it because they don't like any Larpe
Speaker 1: gone wrong movie. But um, I enjoyed it anyway. The
Speaker 1: Wild Hunt is this thing that's found through a ton
Speaker 1: of cultures. It is this like ghostly hunt through the heavens.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's led by Odin. Sometimes it's led like hunters
Speaker 1: or the ghosts of the dead. It's in like it's
Speaker 1: not always led by Odin, right, because it's a ton
Speaker 1: of cultures and there's just like pale riders and just
Speaker 1: all this ship is like really fucking common. It's this
Speaker 1: thing that people fucking see and they either see it
Speaker 1: in the woods on the ground or they see it
Speaker 1: in the fucking sky in the heavens, and then they
Speaker 1: like attribute all this foclore to it. And I'm really
Speaker 1: interested in it because I've spent a lot of time
Speaker 1: living alone in the woods and sometimes at night you
Speaker 1: hear the Wildest Ship, and I'm just like, like, I
Speaker 1: have a night where I was like convinced I heard
Speaker 1: the Wild Hunt. I might have been sleep paralyzed. A
Speaker 1: lot of my understanding of mythology comes from the fact
Speaker 1: that I suffer from sleep paralysis. I mean, yeah, because
Speaker 1: that's that's that that makes sense anyway. Sometimes the Wild
Speaker 1: Hunt abducts people. Sometimes it's an omen being like you
Speaker 1: see the Wild Hunt, you're gonna die. I didn't die,
Speaker 1: to my knowledge. There's versions of it all over the place,
Speaker 1: and Santa Santa riding around in the sky bass the
Speaker 1: fucking Wild Hunt. I mean that that's that's super interesting
Speaker 1: because like like this this, this, this, this idea of
Speaker 1: like the wild Hunt, right, some of that in a
Speaker 1: folklore sense. Has the modern version of that would be
Speaker 1: like alien abductions. Oh yeah, right, Like that's kind of
Speaker 1: like the that's kind of like the high strangeness idea
Speaker 1: of like there's been these types of stories and that
Speaker 1: that are that are either like referencing some type of
Speaker 1: hallucination or some type of like dream state that we
Speaker 1: enter to sometimes and it always filters through whatever stage
Speaker 1: our culture is in. So sometimes it's stuff like this
Speaker 1: in the wild Huse. Sometimes it's more like sci Fi
Speaker 1: with the with like the little gray aliens. Sometimes it's
Speaker 1: you know, a weird sleep paralysis demon coming into your
Speaker 1: room and transporting you to to another place. There's like
Speaker 1: always always like slightly different versions of it. No, it's
Speaker 1: I like that, I really like that. Um. Alien abduction
Speaker 1: is the new Santa I mean the new Wild Hunt.
Speaker 1: And then Santa himself is a mixed match of a
Speaker 1: ton of different ship and a bunch of different European cultures,
Speaker 1: was sort of claim Santa Um. But for my money,
Speaker 1: Santa Claus is a mix of old St Nick and
Speaker 1: this finished creature Julapuki, the Christmas goat who was a
Speaker 1: pre Christian figure, and he's basically aware goat. Sophie, have
Speaker 1: you've heard of You've heard of this creature? I have not. Oh,
Speaker 1: gare you'll like this? Yeah, I've been like I've been
Speaker 1: like Crampus pilled for a long time. But so, yeah,
Speaker 1: he's this like man who turns into part goat part
Speaker 1: man sometimes. So he's a fucking wear goat and he
Speaker 1: wears red robes like lined with white fur and rides
Speaker 1: around in a sleigh pulled by reindeer and scares kids.
Speaker 1: Oh really, huh curious? What what? What does that remind
Speaker 1: me of? Yeah? So Santa Claus is a fucking wear goat.
Speaker 1: Sometimes he's an invisible spirit who helps bring in the
Speaker 1: new year by helping the light return. It's like worth
Speaker 1: noting here that Finland has its own pagan traditions, um
Speaker 1: several different ones, the different Finnish tribes of different religions
Speaker 1: and pagan cultures that are separate from like the Germanic
Speaker 1: pagan traditions and also separate from the Slavic traditions closer
Speaker 1: to the Slavic ones as far as I understand, but
Speaker 1: please don't quote me on that or please don't yell
Speaker 1: at me fins and if you do, um, just the
Speaker 1: altbatically beat the soft and not at me, and I'll
Speaker 1: be like, hey, I know what those words mean. And
Speaker 1: then if you yell any other words, I won't understand them,
Speaker 1: so oh yeah, and then like St. Nicholas, the whole
Speaker 1: thing with him is that, well that's the Protestants fault.
Speaker 1: I think we'll get to that later. Okay, basically everyone
Speaker 1: has Solstice holidays, usually filled with weird demons in the sky.
Speaker 1: How could you not? And now let's talk about medieval Christmas.
Speaker 1: Just kidding. Now it's in the episode and you have
Speaker 1: to wait till Wednesday to hear about medieval Oh, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna be on the edge of my seat till Wednesday.
Speaker 1: I know. We definitely don't record these back to back.
Speaker 1: We record these when they drive to be peering, peering
Speaker 1: out of the night sky, hoping not to be taken
Speaker 1: away by a scary ghast man. I was so, I
Speaker 1: was so scared of alien abduction as a kid. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it actually tracks magpie. Now I live alone in the woods,
Speaker 1: but I still feel like you're afraid of bilion abduction.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I like, like sometimes my friends come
Speaker 1: over and then they're like, what was that noise? And
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't know, something outside And They're like,
Speaker 1: how does that not scare you? And I'm like, the
Speaker 1: outside makes a lot of noises. I'm in the forest.
Speaker 1: Yeah no, But like that that the whole wild hunting
Speaker 1: is very reminiscent of the type of like forest like
Speaker 1: forest alien abductions that people talk about, and it just
Speaker 1: it it just connects connects to the overall high stranger,
Speaker 1: this idea of of you know, of of these types
Speaker 1: of of being taken to these other places that we
Speaker 1: see throughout folklore, even stuff like um ali jab being
Speaker 1: carried to heaven in like chariots of fire. Like it's
Speaker 1: it's it's the same, it's it's the same idea. Wait,
Speaker 1: I don't know that that's just like well just like
Speaker 1: um you know there's a bad Christian if that's a
Speaker 1: Christians just multiple multiple stories in the Bible of people
Speaker 1: being being being taken up and then sometimes sometimes returned.
Speaker 1: Um Enoch being one, which is you know, resulting in
Speaker 1: stuff like the Emerald tablet. We have, we have Elijah
Speaker 1: being taking being taken up, um inside inside a chariot.
Speaker 1: But you know it's like that's like an alien craft
Speaker 1: coming down, picking you up and taking you up into
Speaker 1: the sky. That's that is what that story is. Um,
Speaker 1: we just have different different versions of it. Let lasting
Speaker 1: now and then. I love that like lights in the
Speaker 1: hills and the skies is like a persistent part of
Speaker 1: folklore and they're just like a part of people's like
Speaker 1: lived experiences of just like what's that fucking light over there?
Speaker 1: Is just like a thing that happens when you spend
Speaker 1: a lot of time away from cities. Cool. Okay, Well,
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about Revelry on Wednesday, Garrison to play
Speaker 1: Harrison Davis. Do you have anything that you would like
Speaker 1: to tell our listeners? What are you plug in? What
Speaker 1: do you plug in? Well? I just wrapped an fast
Speaker 1: series that I that I I just I just trapped
Speaker 1: up a series that I wrote with my colleague James
Speaker 1: Stout about trans people living in a ranch in Rule,
Speaker 1: Colorado and how they survived in attack by fascists. So
Speaker 1: that's that's on. It could happen here. It's a four
Speaker 1: part series. So that that just that just wrapped up.
Speaker 1: That's kind of the most recent thing that I have
Speaker 1: that I've done and I should have. I should have
Speaker 1: a very interesting article coming out soon, but I do
Speaker 1: not know when that's gonna be fully fully published. But
Speaker 1: you can if you follow me on either Twitter Instagram
Speaker 1: at Hungry about I, you will certainly certainly be alerted
Speaker 1: when when this bizarre, bizarre thing is finally is finally published.
Speaker 1: And if anyone would like to get to know Garrison, well,
Speaker 1: please transform yourself into a series of concentric rings embedded
Speaker 1: with eyes within eyes and show up at their po box.
Speaker 1: You know, sure if if if you go through all
Speaker 1: that work and all of the transportation, then I'm I'm
Speaker 1: surely I'll probably talk to you. That is that? That's
Speaker 1: that does seem slightly impressive. Margaret, You are you have
Speaker 1: a book that is available for pre order? Correct? I do? Yeah.
Speaker 1: My goal is to always have a book available from
Speaker 1: pre order the entire run of this show, apparently. My
Speaker 1: current book available for pre order is called Escape from
Speaker 1: Insul Island. It is a adventurous science fiction adventure novel novella.
Speaker 1: Um it's very short. You can read it in one day.
Speaker 1: If you're the kind of person who's like I like
Speaker 1: the idea of being someone who reads books, but I
Speaker 1: have a hard time paying attention to something for a
Speaker 1: long time. I highly recommend Escape from Insel Island. And
Speaker 1: if you're an in cell and you live on an island,
Speaker 1: I highly recommend Escape from Insil Island. But also you
Speaker 1: have to stop in and in Cell first. That's oh.
Speaker 1: You could buy it by going to trink Tangled Wilderness
Speaker 1: dot org and it is available for pre order now.
Speaker 1: And Sophie, do you have anything you would like to blog?
Speaker 1: Just at cool Zone Media on Instagram and Twitter. Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I work because this is all part of
Speaker 1: the cool Zone Media, which is cool by everyone. Cool
Speaker 1: people who did cool stuff is a production of cool
Speaker 1: Zone Media. But more podcasts on cool Zone Media, visit
Speaker 1: our website cool zone media dot com or check us
Speaker 1: out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.