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Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Wheel of Death. Every week on

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Speaker 1: Wheel of Death week, No, Sophie's I liked it, go

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Speaker 1: for it, Okay, Wheel of Death. I'm your host, Mario Kildrey,

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Speaker 1: and each week I tell you about cool people in

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Speaker 1: his No, I have to like continue the Wheel of

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Speaker 1: Death thing. I can't just cut back to the This

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Speaker 1: week on Wheel of Death, we talked to you about

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Speaker 1: a cool thing that is a wheel that that leads

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Speaker 1: to death, which is also cool. We're all strapped to

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Speaker 1: it's the cycle of time. We didn't really do it,

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Speaker 1: but we somehe did it. Yeay, Okay. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Mario Kildroy. I'm cool people did cool stuff, and every

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Speaker 1: week I tell you about cool people in history like

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Speaker 1: rebels and queers and rebel queers and you know, people

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Speaker 1: who dress up like animals and throw bricks at rich

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Speaker 1: people's houses sometime vaguely in the name of God. With

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Speaker 1: me today is my guest Garrison, Davis Garrison, how are

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Speaker 1: you hi? I was excited. I was. I was really

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Speaker 1: on the edge of my seat with the whole Wheel

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Speaker 1: of Death bed. I was like, oh wow, there's so

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Speaker 1: many places that this could go. Yeah, it didn't It

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Speaker 1: wasn't considered well ahead of time. That's all right, a

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Speaker 1: metaphor in there, but the real wheel of death is

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Speaker 1: just living in collapsing capitalist dystophia. That's right. And Garrison,

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Speaker 1: who are you besides someone who lives in a collapsing

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Speaker 1: wheel of death? Um? I write podcasts a lot of

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Speaker 1: the time for a show called it Could Happen Here. Um.

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Speaker 1: I also occasionally do investigative journalism and spend a lot

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Speaker 1: of my time looking at upsetting things and most importantly

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Speaker 1: have really really cute cats. Yeah, yeah, I do, I do. Yeah. Okay, Well,

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Speaker 1: the other voice that you've heard is Sophie, our producer. Hi, Sophie,

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Speaker 1: are you excited for the break? Yeah? This is the

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Speaker 1: last the last week of episodes for the year. Um,

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Speaker 1: cool people to cool stuff and cools. The Meani are

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Speaker 1: taking time off for a little it to. I was

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Speaker 1: gonna say take a break, but I really feel like

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Speaker 1: we're not catch up on work. Every year every year

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Speaker 1: Robert and I are like a time off and then

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Speaker 1: it's like no, a yeah, but I get to pet

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Speaker 1: some some cool dogs and some cool cats and some

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Speaker 1: cool goats, and uh, it's going to be a good time.

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Speaker 1: Yeay our audio engineers, Ian. Our music was made by

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Speaker 1: the incomparable musician on Woman. Thank you Ian for editing

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Speaker 1: our stuff all year your We are very appreciative, Ian

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Speaker 1: High I So Garrison. This week we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about something dear to my heart, near to my heart, whatever,

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Speaker 1: it's both we're going to talk about have you ever

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Speaker 1: heard of this holiday? Christmas kind of So? I grew

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Speaker 1: up very putting christ in Christmas pilled. Yeah. I I

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Speaker 1: never really got to experience any like secular Christmas. Like

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Speaker 1: I never once believed in Santa at all, because that

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Speaker 1: was because if you re arrange Santa at Satan like,

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Speaker 1: it's it's never yeah, it's I it was very like,

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Speaker 1: you know, we have to read all these chapters of

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Speaker 1: the Bible and will exchange gifts and stuff. But it

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Speaker 1: was it was, you know, we'll we'll go to like

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Speaker 1: the the Christmas themed like Nativity show, and you know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's all all all that kind of thing. Did

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Speaker 1: they ever in this, in this upbringing that you had

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Speaker 1: around Christmas? Did they? Did they refer to it as

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Speaker 1: like a traditional way of handling Christmas? Ever, I'm just curious.

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Speaker 1: I mean they traditional in the sense of like they

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Speaker 1: would they would complain about how Christmas has been like

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Speaker 1: commercialized by like secular corporations and been turned into this

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Speaker 1: thing about that's just about buying things now, not that

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Speaker 1: they're actually against buying things, because they're still all like

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Speaker 1: list Christians, but they'd be like, oh, they're they're trying

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Speaker 1: to trying to just all of the malls and all

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Speaker 1: of the all the big businesses are trying to distract

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Speaker 1: from the true meaning of Christmas in the traditional sense

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Speaker 1: of of of being you know, in the major Well,

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Speaker 1: today we're gonna talk about traditional Christmas, which is not

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Speaker 1: at all what your family celebrated. It's it's not a

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Speaker 1: historical We're going to talk about the War on Christmas,

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Speaker 1: and not the way that we usually hear about it.

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Speaker 1: We're going to talk about the seventeen hundred year long

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Speaker 1: war on Christmas, waged by people who hate fun, who

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Speaker 1: have tried to sanitize and strip away all the beauty

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Speaker 1: and glory and gayness and rebellion out of one of

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Speaker 1: the most riotous and wonderful times of the year, the

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Speaker 1: fucking winter solstice. We're going to talk about feasting and

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Speaker 1: was sailing and Saturnalia, Yule Christmas, actual bona fide Christmas,

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Speaker 1: and we're gonna talk to some ship on Purison's ready

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Speaker 1: for the Saturn back in Saturnalia. Yeah, I guess I

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Speaker 1: don't really know enough about Saturnest. Yeah sure, yeah, yep. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to start by covering a bunch of different holidays,

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Speaker 1: because there are so many holidays that share this time period.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not even talking about or like yeah, so

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Speaker 1: I'm not talking about that stuff. I'm talking about stuff

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Speaker 1: within the sort of Christian origin, so like you'le tide

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Speaker 1: greetings and we're like kind of in that, all right,

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Speaker 1: all right, yeah, And I want to start with the

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Speaker 1: like weirdly most earnest one that I'm excited about, and St.

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Speaker 1: Lucy's Day. You heard of St. Lucy's Day? I have.

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Speaker 1: I just heard about St. Lucy's Day earlier this year,

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Speaker 1: but I did not look into it. I just I

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Speaker 1: just saw it was the thing. I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that's not St. Nicholas. I wonder who that is? And

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Speaker 1: then I continued on in my day fair enough that is, uh,

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Speaker 1: I am new to St. Lucy's Day. So okay, you

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Speaker 1: know how any given group of people can be oppressors

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Speaker 1: or oppressed pretty much just based on their relationship to power.

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Speaker 1: Yeah that is yeah, I mean, huh so. The Christians

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Speaker 1: were oppressed for a while, like a long time ago,

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Speaker 1: for about two thousand years ago until the early three hundreds,

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Speaker 1: you know, when they became a whatever. The opposite of

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Speaker 1: oppressed is. I'm not sure you saying there's still not

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Speaker 1: the most persecuted religion on the planet, because that's because

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Speaker 1: that's what I was taught as well. Oh interesting, No,

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Speaker 1: I genuinely do not believe. So while they were actually

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Speaker 1: being oppressed, they did all the stuff they should have

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Speaker 1: done while being oppressed, which is fight against that oppression.

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Speaker 1: And the early Catholics were like pretty notorious for mapping

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Speaker 1: all their stuff, all their stuff on the pagan holidays. Right.

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Speaker 1: The story that usually gets told is that the crafty

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Speaker 1: church was like, how do we steal stuff from the Pagans? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And that part's sort of true. But the other thing

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Speaker 1: that was happening is Catholicism in particular is famous for

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Speaker 1: its syncreticism. Yeah, or syncretism or you think I would

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Speaker 1: have looked up how to pronounce the most important word

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Speaker 1: and what I'm talking about today. The Catholic Church shows

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Speaker 1: up somewhere and it's like, you're all Catholic now, and

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Speaker 1: people are like, all right, what does that mean? And

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Speaker 1: the church is like, we'll tell you in Latin. And

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Speaker 1: people are like, I don't speak Latin, and the church says,

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Speaker 1: non meh cury est, which is my my Latin joke.

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Speaker 1: It means, that's not my problem. Very funny. Yeah, thank you. Um,

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Speaker 1: I don't speak Latin either, I yeah, me neither. Ye.

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Speaker 1: So you know, it's the it's the fucking forever ago times.

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Speaker 1: People don't have radio yet. So the pope in the

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Speaker 1: Church and even the Roman Empire of a little bit

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Speaker 1: of a problem with power projection and that they can

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Speaker 1: conquer places, but communication is so slow that places continue

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Speaker 1: to have a decent bit of autonomy. Um, this is

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Speaker 1: an oversimplification, but you get syncretics. Syncreticism based based on

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Speaker 1: this ship that's halfway Catholic and halfway whatever else people

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Speaker 1: already had going on. So people kept celebrating their holidays

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Speaker 1: and the Church was left with little choice but to

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Speaker 1: accept those holidays and kind of do the best it

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Speaker 1: could to rebrand them. But in many ways and That's

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Speaker 1: the sort of central argument I'm gonna make today, is

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Speaker 1: that people just kept doing the things that they were

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Speaker 1: doing for thousands of years and just being like, okay,

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Speaker 1: it's Christian now, yeah, now they got told that there's

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Speaker 1: like some jesusy wrapping over top of something that that

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Speaker 1: predates all of that. Yeah, yeah, And as long as

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Speaker 1: they can still cross dress and like bring trees inside

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Speaker 1: and demand ship from rich people, what do they care?

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Speaker 1: And you know, the most famous like the examples of

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Speaker 1: this we can see is like Easter is really obviously

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Speaker 1: fertility spring, like yes, spring thing. There's nothing to do

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Speaker 1: with Jesus. It's about eggs for fox sake, and like bunnies.

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Speaker 1: So Christmas happening around Solstice is not a coincidence. But

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Speaker 1: there's another not a coincidence Catholic winter Solstice celebration. And

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Speaker 1: this one was like in some places and specifically in Scandinavia,

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Speaker 1: it's even more explicitly not a coincidence. That is a

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Speaker 1: Solstice thing because it's a celebration of light. And the

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Speaker 1: reason Catholics ended up with more than one Solstice holiday

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Speaker 1: is because of the calendar funk up. So like one

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Speaker 1: of them is December thirteen. One of them is December twenty,

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Speaker 1: and it's because of weird Julian Gregory and ship that's

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Speaker 1: totally over my head, got it. The Feast of St. Lucia. St.

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Speaker 1: Lucy's Day especially popular in Scandinavia for some obvious reason. Uh, Like,

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Speaker 1: it's dark there. It happens on December, and it's a

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Speaker 1: celebration of light, and it's the story of a martyr Lucia.

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Speaker 1: But it's also the story of mutual aid done at

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Speaker 1: a terrible risk, which is why I like it and

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Speaker 1: also not wanting to marry some asshole you don't like.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote a zine by my friend Renna Ry,

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Speaker 1: who has been on this podcast before. St lucy official

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Speaker 1: hagiography or a Catholic saint biography is violent and sort

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Speaker 1: of boring. In brief, she was a Christian living in

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Speaker 1: the late two when Rome had a policy of rounding

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Speaker 1: up and executing members of this at that time fringe

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Speaker 1: religious movement. When she was forced to marry this high

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Speaker 1: up Roman government dude, Lucy tore out her own eyes

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Speaker 1: to prevent the wedding. In the midst of all of this,

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Speaker 1: Lucy's Christianity was discovered and she was executed in this

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Speaker 1: horrible way. I won't go into and became a martyr,

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Speaker 1: but I find Lucy's death to be way less interesting

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Speaker 1: than her life as a well off Greek Sicilian Greeks

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Speaker 1: ruled the island before Romans did. She had resources and

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Speaker 1: used them to support fellow Christians and hiding in the

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Speaker 1: catacombs beneath her hometown of Syracusa, sneaking out of her

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Speaker 1: house at night, she brought them food and to keep

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Speaker 1: her hands free to carry provisions. She lit the path

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Speaker 1: through the catacombs by wearing a crown of candles on

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Speaker 1: her head, which is just an image I like because

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Speaker 1: it's really fucking metal. Yeah, And to quote a little

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Speaker 1: bit more from that z and the Zene is called

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Speaker 1: on St. Lucy, the Solstice and mutual Aid. The story

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Speaker 1: doesn't begin with a martyr plucking out her own eyes

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Speaker 1: or a saint sending a ship full of grained with

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Speaker 1: starving city, which is a later part of the whole

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Speaker 1: thing that I'm not going to go into. It starts

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Speaker 1: with a simpler miracle, a young girl walking through catacombs

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Speaker 1: beneath an occupied city, her arms full of emmer loaves,

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Speaker 1: cheap wine, garam and oranges. The limestone path lit by

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Speaker 1: candles bound to her head. She moves slowly, careful not

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Speaker 1: to drop her load or cry out when hot wax

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Speaker 1: strips on her shoulders. Roman centuries guard Syracusa and are

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Speaker 1: always listening. At the end of maze of tunnels is

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Speaker 1: an alcove where herodics worshippers of a tripart god, a

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Speaker 1: sort of Orpheus, have made a home. They reached for

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Speaker 1: her bundles, stuffed bits of bread into their mouth, take

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Speaker 1: swigs of wine, say bless you, bless you daughter, and

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Speaker 1: a lot of the rest of her story, basically all

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Speaker 1: of our story. It's buried under so much fucking I

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Speaker 1: I Am a Catholic saint thing that it's impossible to

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Speaker 1: tell what actually happened. Right. She was like versions where

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Speaker 1: she lost her eyes that got added a thousand years later.

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Speaker 1: The earlier ones don't talk about her losing her eyes.

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Speaker 1: Wren makes the argument that maybe the whole thing about

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Speaker 1: a suitor and all that stuff is beside the point,

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Speaker 1: and it was actually just the mutual aig ship that matters.

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Speaker 1: So that's that's the setting, the scene that's going to

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Speaker 1: be the one of the Solstice days. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: have so much more sympathy for this era of Christianity,

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Speaker 1: especially the people who are kind of more on the

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Speaker 1: gnostic side of it at this point. Yeah, before the

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Speaker 1: before the Catholics like teamed up with the state. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because like all of this type of stuff that you're

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Speaker 1: talking about sounds way more cool and metal. It's like

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Speaker 1: it's been it's people trying to like it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: it's doing way more interesting like mysticism that's divorced from

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Speaker 1: a lot of the like um dogmatic practices that were

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Speaker 1: that were common at the times. People trying to sort

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Speaker 1: through trying to trying to build stories about about like

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Speaker 1: spiritual development in a world that is currently under threat

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Speaker 1: of empire, and that that's why they're trying to find

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Speaker 1: new ways to build other forms of spirituality. And it's

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Speaker 1: it's so much it's so much cooler. And then, as

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Speaker 1: as is often the case, the people then once they

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Speaker 1: gained power, became the oppressors themselves. Yep, yep. No that

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Speaker 1: this is the fact that you come from a conservative

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Speaker 1: Christian background and then also are really into narcissism and

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Speaker 1: ship was like why I really wanted you to be

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Speaker 1: on this sweet. So there's another holiday that the Christians

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Speaker 1: celebrate around the same time of year. It's that one

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Speaker 1: that again you've you've heard of many people are familiar with.

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Speaker 1: It's called Christmas, and the canonical story of Christmas goes

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Speaker 1: something like this. There was this couple Mary and Joseph.

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Speaker 1: They weren't fucking for whatever reason. Maybe Joseph was gay

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Speaker 1: and was keeping Merry around to be his beard. I

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Speaker 1: think supposedly God was like, hey, don't fuck your wife

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Speaker 1: until she has a son. I don't think too hard

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Speaker 1: about this anyway. One night, an angel shows up visits Mary.

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Speaker 1: He's probably a series of spinning, concentric rings or something

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Speaker 1: like one can help. Yeah, and he's like, this is

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Speaker 1: totally chill, don't don't freak out. Let's let's do it.

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Speaker 1: And Mary is like, yeah, let's do it. And then,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I would if if a series of concentric

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Speaker 1: eyeball rings showed up at my bedroom at three a m.

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Speaker 1: I know what I would do immediately. But yeah, I mean, like,

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Speaker 1: there's to be at least seventeen eyes or I'm not interested. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, and thankfully there is there is eyes eyes

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Speaker 1: within eyes. So I think I think the bases are

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Speaker 1: are going to be covered. Yeah, I I think much

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Speaker 1: like Mary, we were good. That's enough, right, And she

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Speaker 1: gets pregnant. Joseph is like, sweet, this is totally cool

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Speaker 1: with me. And then at the end of December in

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Speaker 1: the Manger, they give birth to a kid who was

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Speaker 1: pretty much guaranteed to be a transman since um, the

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Speaker 1: kid's name is Jesus Christ, but he has no dad

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Speaker 1: so therefore he has no Y chromosome, so he's sex

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Speaker 1: to say nothing of course about Eve, who was cloned

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Speaker 1: from Adam and is there for x Y. So so true. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is what's really important, you know. There's also so

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Speaker 1: like there is this version of the story that that

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Speaker 1: we're else that is often taught in church, but some

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Speaker 1: people in church would also teach a slightly different version

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Speaker 1: of the story in which we don't actually know when

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Speaker 1: Jesus was born. Oh yeah, but the date of December

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Speaker 1: comes comes from the comes from the magicians coming to

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Speaker 1: visit Jesus, and they mapped out where he would be

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Speaker 1: based on like star charts and and and that, and

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Speaker 1: that led them to figure out where he would be

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Speaker 1: on December. So like years later, the magicians came with gifts.

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Speaker 1: They came on December, which is then why we give

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Speaker 1: gifts on Christmas. That that is the other story that

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Speaker 1: they were that was told, which is weird because it's

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Speaker 1: not only including like astrology, it's also including like actual magicians,

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Speaker 1: which most most ambodied Christianity doesn't really like to talk about. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the fact that three sorcerers are like an important part

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Speaker 1: of the Jesus story is really interesting. It's so weird

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Speaker 1: and in the like more medieval Christmas that we're gonna

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Speaker 1: be talking about. The Maji show up twelve days later

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Speaker 1: as the twelve Days of Christmas and it's called Epiphany.

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Speaker 1: It's January six. And then there's like I read like

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Speaker 1: five different versions of how they came up with December

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Speaker 1: twenty five. I didn't hear that one. That one's really interesting.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't say anywhere in the Bible when no, this

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Speaker 1: is this is pure pure speculation. Yeah, okay, So our

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Speaker 1: guy Jesus, he grows up to be really important, he

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Speaker 1: gets murdered by the state, like actually a lot of

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Speaker 1: our heroes. I'm not really trying to pain him as

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Speaker 1: a cool people that whatever. He's fun and complicated. I'm

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Speaker 1: not opening that. I've opened a lot of cans of

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Speaker 1: worms right now, but I'm not opening that one. People

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Speaker 1: celebrate his birthday by buying PlayStations or whatever and then

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Speaker 1: getting really mad about living in a multicultural society where

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Speaker 1: not everyone believes in Santa Claus who is totally not

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Speaker 1: aware goat from Finland. But we'll talk about that later.

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Speaker 1: Based So that's the story of Christmas. It's boring. Let's

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Speaker 1: tell a better one. Christianity's whole claim to fame is

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Speaker 1: that it's not paganism. Like they pretty much defined paganism

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Speaker 1: as like not us, right, that is like what it

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Speaker 1: means to be pagan in a lot of ways. But Christianity,

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Speaker 1: especially Catholicism, is so fucking pagan. It's extremely pagan, and

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Speaker 1: that's kind of the main thing it has going for

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Speaker 1: it from my point of view as a you know,

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Speaker 1: folk Catholic or lapsed Catholic, whatever the funk I am.

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Speaker 1: There's blood sacrifice, there's blood drinking, there's cannibalism. There's tons

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Speaker 1: of gods with shrines that you can go around and

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Speaker 1: pray to, like you're in Skyrim visiting DeAndre Trent is

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Speaker 1: like transmutation of it's it's weird stuff. Yeah. You can

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Speaker 1: walk around with a crown of thorns. You can walk

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Speaker 1: around with a crown of candles. You can weave branches

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Speaker 1: into wreaths, you can decorate trees, you can cross stress,

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Speaker 1: you can carry a horse skull around. You can demand

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Speaker 1: rich people give you ship. You can get drunk and

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Speaker 1: accost the aforementioned rich people. Um, lots of stuff. You

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Speaker 1: can do. Christmas, nowhere in the Bible doesn't mention jesus birthday,

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Speaker 1: and the fourth century the Church was like, let's say

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Speaker 1: it's winter solstice nine months after spring equinox, which was

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Speaker 1: when he was conceived, because the angel and Mary got

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Speaker 1: dirty during the fertility rites, which is like again, if

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Speaker 1: if if you're looking at this from like a from

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Speaker 1: like an anthropological standpoint or like a standpoint of like

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Speaker 1: pagan folk rituals, you're like, yeah, that obviously makes sense.

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Speaker 1: There's a reason why the story is told in this way. Yeah, no, totally.

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Speaker 1: And let's have our God be born on the exact

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Speaker 1: day that the sun begins to return to the world,

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Speaker 1: because truly not pagan and this isn't also the holy

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Speaker 1: day of soul in Victus, which was declared twenty five

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Speaker 1: years earlier or twenty six years earlier or something. Jesus

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Speaker 1: totally isn't just another Sun god, Nope, son Sun Sun God,

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Speaker 1: son of God anyway. Yeah, yeah, so December twenty five

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Speaker 1: had or rather this I think is specifically December twenty five.

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Speaker 1: I should have put this in my notes. I've spent

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Speaker 1: so long reading a million different fucking holidays and it

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Speaker 1: got all confused. Uh, the holy day of Soul in Victus,

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Speaker 1: which is the unconquered Son, which is the official religion

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Speaker 1: of Rome before Christianity took over, but not by a

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Speaker 1: long time. So Soul in Victus is fucking weird. Um,

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Speaker 1: And most of the people I know who are like

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Speaker 1: most of the people I read about who're into Soul

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Speaker 1: Invictus or not. Like, if you meet someone who's like, man,

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Speaker 1: you know what rules like Imperial Rome, you're not meeting

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Speaker 1: a good person. Red red flag. Yeah, So it would

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Speaker 1: be too easy to say Christmas is just the continued

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Speaker 1: celebration of Soul in Victus. It wouldn't really be true.

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Speaker 1: The a lot of arguments happening about how the worship

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Speaker 1: of Soul and Rome, which was sort of predate soul

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Speaker 1: Invictus or doesn't. There's like lots of fucking arguments you

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Speaker 1: can get into. But specifically Christmas revelers took more from

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Speaker 1: other traditions, specifically medieval Christmas, which is my favorite. Christmas

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Speaker 1: took a lot from saturn Alia. Yes, so let's talk

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Speaker 1: about saturn Alia. Saturn was a god of time and

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Speaker 1: abundance and agriculture and liberation and a bunch of other ship.

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Speaker 1: Roman gods had very expansive portfolios. It was very impressive.

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Speaker 1: They do seem to collect a lot of like I

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Speaker 1: don't like magic cars, Like they have a really strong hand,

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Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, um Rome was around for a long time.

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Speaker 1: Rome is still around, but like ancient Rome as a

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Speaker 1: sort of imperial force around for a long time. And

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Speaker 1: before there was the Feast of Soul in Victus, there

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Speaker 1: was saturn Alia. It was a week long festival centered

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Speaker 1: on winter solstice. And there's not like a specific pamphlet.

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Speaker 1: Historians have found that's like in Latin and it's like

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Speaker 1: how to celebrate Saturnalia. Instead, people have had to cobble

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Speaker 1: together the best that people can understand, and so it's

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Speaker 1: probably like conflating a lot of different times because this

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Speaker 1: was celebrated for a very long time. But Saturnalia absolutely happened,

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Speaker 1: and we know some stuff about it, and it's fucking interesting.

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Speaker 1: For a week, masters served their slaves and every which

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Speaker 1: is this role reversal thing that was going to come

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Speaker 1: up again and again. Everyone wore bright, tacky clothes against

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Speaker 1: the style at the time. Everyone got free speech for

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Speaker 1: a hot minute, so everyone basically told their bosses and

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Speaker 1: their masters and ship what was up. People gambled, which

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Speaker 1: wasn't normally allowed. They used coins and nuts for their gambling,

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Speaker 1: and they gave everyone presence. The festivities were presided over

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Speaker 1: by the Lord of Saturnalia, which was decided by drawing lots.

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Speaker 1: Everyone got together and drew a lot. If you won

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Speaker 1: or lost, depending on how you looked at it and

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Speaker 1: depending on how anthropologists are interpreting this particular thing, you

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Speaker 1: become king for the week. You're the King of Saturnalia.

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Speaker 1: You're not actually really in charge, although everyone has to

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Speaker 1: do what you say. It's but you're in charge of

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Speaker 1: sewing chaos. You give commands everyone has to follow, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'd be like, I don't know. Everyone stand on their

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Speaker 1: head and run around and do whatever weird? Should I

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Speaker 1: come up with a lot of pressure actually to be

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Speaker 1: the the Lord of Saturnalia, you'd be like, I have

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Speaker 1: to be the most hedonistic that anyone has ever been.

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Speaker 1: I have to plan to be the most chaotic thing,

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Speaker 1: which is it's challenging. It's it's it is. It can

399
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Speaker 1: be challenging to plan to plan out chaos because chaos

400
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Speaker 1: is often spontaneous. Yeah. Do you know what else is

401
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:55,600
Speaker 1: chaotic and disruptive of our narrative? Oh? Is it capitalism?

402
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:57,960
Speaker 1: Trying to convince you to buy things? It is um

403
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Speaker 1: in this very well fitting here, learn about some ship

404
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Speaker 1: you can buy while I complain about what happened to

405
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Speaker 1: traditional Christmas, which is supposed to be about chaos, not

406
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Speaker 1: Christ and not well presence. Yes, actually maybe it is

407
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Speaker 1: a return to traditional Christmas. Who's to know? Return with

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Speaker 1: a V. Yeah, here's some ads and we are back,

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Speaker 1: and I don't get the reference. Return with a V. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just doing a just a small Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I was like, I was like, you're you're doing some

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Speaker 1: light fascism right there, like the Roman, like when you

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Speaker 1: like carve it into stone and like to use a

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Speaker 1: V instead of a you got it. I'm I'm aware

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Speaker 1: of contemporary politics and how they refer to ancient things.

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Speaker 1: That's literally my job is ancient ings. That's true too.

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Speaker 1: So there's also human sacrifice, which is fairly chaotic, I

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Speaker 1: will say, because like chaos is not inherently good or bad, right, No,

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Speaker 1: chaos is beyond pastic like leading. So yeah, thanks, thanks,

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Speaker 1: So the exact type of human sacrifices subject to debate.

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Speaker 1: Dead gladiators were definitely offered up to the god's saturn,

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Speaker 1: and I feel like that's like halfway cheating in terms

423
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:37,639
Speaker 1: of human sacrifice because the guy is dead already, right,

424
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 1: But yeah, also at the same time, he died because

425
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 1: you had a being a gladia Yeah yeah, yeah, which

426
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 1: the whole gladiator thing whatever, I'm not gonna do a

427
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 1: total tangent on It's way different and more interesting. You think,

428
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:54,959
Speaker 1: it's not just two people go into a death pit

429
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 1: and one person leaves. It's not beyond thunderdome gladiators actually

430
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 1: like often survived and lived fairly long lives, and people

431
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: didn't die every time because it was this fucking sporting

432
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 1: event that happened for hundreds of years. Like, it's more

433
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 1: like how people play football and get horrible concussions to

434
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,920
Speaker 1: shorten their lifespan. Yeah, it's like halfway between mm A

435
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 1: fights slash professional football and what we conceive of as

436
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 1: gladiator fights. I feel like it's the actual gladiator fights.

437
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,640
Speaker 1: Got it. But people did die and probably more during

438
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,400
Speaker 1: Saturnalia for some because they needed some dead people get

439
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 1: offered up to the god. Later, the Romans were like,

440
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 1: what if we use candles as representatives of human life

441
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 1: and we sacrifice these candles by lighting tapers. So it's

442
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 1: possible that the tapers part of Christmas where everyone has

443
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 1: taper candles, It's possible that that traces back to fast

444
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 1: advising humans. Really really makes you look at those candles differently, huh. Yeah.

445
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 1: It's also possible that the Lord of Saturnalia, after being

446
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 1: king for a week, was sacrificed to Saturn, which is

447
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 1: like way more metal and full car of a story. Yeah,

448
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,199
Speaker 1: what a weird few weeks that would be. Wow. I know,

449
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,439
Speaker 1: I know you're like, you just like go out with

450
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 1: a bang, you know. I guess so you just you

451
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,159
Speaker 1: you don't care what happens because it doesn't matter for you.

452
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:28,959
Speaker 1: That would increase the chaos, yes, yeah, and uh and

453
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: I this is not my favorite part because I don't

454
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 1: think you should slit fake king's throats. Um, that's what

455
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: real kings are for. Yeah. Shortly after Saturnalia was the

456
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 1: first day of the new year Colens and Colens is

457
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 1: actually the first day of any month, and this whole thing.

458
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 1: You got a holiday first day of every month, but Colens.

459
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:49,919
Speaker 1: The first day of January New Year's Day was like

460
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 1: a real big one. And Colens, there were gifts. In

461
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,439
Speaker 1: the northern regions of the Empire. There was cross dressing,

462
00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 1: just like a fuck ton of cross dressing. It gets

463
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:06,159
Speaker 1: called ritual trendsvestis um unfathomably based. And this continues for

464
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,640
Speaker 1: thousands of years. I will just say, someone say, people

465
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 1: are still doing it now. I know. If you want

466
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 1: to celebrate traditional Christmas, go to a drag show that

467
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:21,639
Speaker 1: is more traditional of for Christmas. I I that is

468
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,159
Speaker 1: what my plans are, all right, great, and also dressing

469
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: up like animals just part of it, all part of Colens.

470
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 1: This goes in great because I'm going to a dreg

471
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,199
Speaker 1: show dressed up as cat will because I'm going to

472
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 1: a Batman Returns themed drag show, which is as we know,

473
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,879
Speaker 1: the best Christmas movie, so I will be both both

474
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,679
Speaker 1: both cross dressing and where it could animal costume true

475
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 1: Colenn's spirit right there, Michelle Piper is really a Clen's icon.

476
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: Absolutely do you know? And this? Do you know who

477
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 1: that is? Margaret? Yes, as an actress who is in

478
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 1: movies that were around when I was younger. Yeah, I'm

479
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,120
Speaker 1: I couldn't pick her out of a lineup or tell

480
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 1: you what movies she's in. Besides, apparently she's Catwoman. Hilarious.

481
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,159
Speaker 1: And in my defense, I am both name blind and

482
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: face blind. I pretty much keep track of everyone based

483
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 1: on their haircut and if they could change their haircut,

484
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 1: they're different people. Yeah. So sometimes when I write my scripts,

485
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 1: I forget to put in names because I'm like, no,

486
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: one don't remember a name. It's a meaningless signifier. Why

487
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: would you names? It's just red to both flaps, It

488
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. Yeah. Uh, this is the closest I can

489
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: find to a true origin of Christmas is Saturnalia. There's

490
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 1: other stuff and we're gonna get to it. We're gonna

491
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 1: get to Yule in a second. But celebrating the darkest

492
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 1: time of the year with chaos, revelry, and roll reversal.

493
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: So let's talk about more of that. Let's talk about Yule.

494
00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: So Christmas barrows a lot from Saturnalia, but Christmas gets

495
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 1: called Yule sometimes, right, And that's the stuff of Germanic paganism.

496
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: We don't know a ton about Yule as it was

497
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 1: actually celebrated because a lot of Germanic pagan information was

498
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: filtered through Christian observers, which is really interesting. For this

499
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: is my main one of my main arguments that used

500
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 1: against like the Nazi Germanic pagan types is that I'm like, oh,

501
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 1: you like specifically think all of these specific things that

502
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: are very similar to Christianity. That's totally not because a

503
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: Christian monk told you that a single man was the

504
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 1: most important fucking anyway, whatever. What is important is that

505
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 1: we're going too adds again again. Just it's really important

506
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 1: that we get to add breaks in this episode. That's

507
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 1: what's important in life. So here's here's some of them,

508
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 1: and we're back full. It was a twelve day celebration. Uh.

509
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 1: The name Yule literally means Odin um oh I did

510
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: I did? I did not put that together? Yeah. One

511
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 1: of Odin's many names is j O L with some

512
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: marks over it. Yeah, it's pronounced basically, you'll from Old

513
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 1: Norse and you will the big old feast. There's ale,

514
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: there's sacrifice, including probably human sacrifice at various points. Um,

515
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 1: there's a lot of stories about prisoners of war from

516
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: Rome being human sacrifice. People can get a fun arguments

517
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: about this stuff. Um, I'm like more worried about offending

518
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 1: the Norwee Boos than the Christians in terms of like

519
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: people who are going to get up in my mentions

520
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 1: about this ship. But and when they would do these

521
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: sacrifices um called block I think was the Germanic pagan

522
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 1: style of sacrifice. You intentionally cut the throat so that

523
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 1: arterial blood goes all over everyone in the audience. And

524
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 1: so then they would sit down a feast and this

525
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: I know more about them sacrificing animals. But then they

526
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 1: like sacrifice the animal and then they eat the animal,

527
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 1: which doesn't seem like a sacrifice. Yeah, that's that's that's like,

528
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: that's like preparing it for slaughter to like eat, yeah,

529
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 1: and be like I don't know, like yeah, I don't know,

530
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 1: it doesn't seem like you're given up much. If I'm

531
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: like I've I'm prepared to sacrifice a lot by continuing

532
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 1: to have what I have. I'll have it in your name,

533
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 1: dear all Father. But you know whatever, I'm who am

534
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: I to tell them that they're doing their sacrifice wrong.

535
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: They sit down and eat feasts covered in blood, and

536
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 1: if I had anything to say to them, they would

537
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 1: murder me so and they would feast. The burning of

538
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: the Yule log comes from this tradition, and the Yule tree,

539
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 1: the Christmas tree, you'll be shocked to know comes from Yule. Really,

540
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 1: it's it's not a representative of the Tree of life,

541
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 1: like what I learned. Oh yeah, no it is not.

542
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 1: I mean, it could be many things, uh, but yeah, no, yeah, no,

543
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 1: it's about like basically like if you're cold, they're cold,

544
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: bring them in about like tree spirits. That's that's great,

545
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 1: But um, that's actually that's actually pretty rad. Yeah, because

546
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: I actually assumed that the bringing the tree inside was

547
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: like a when it became a Christmas tree, because it

548
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 1: seems like a very modern, destructive consumers thing to like

549
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 1: cut down a living tree and put it in your

550
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 1: house and watch it slowly rot. But they bringing the

551
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 1: tree inside to decorate was was often part of it.

552
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 1: And they would also like decorate their houses like branches

553
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: and wreaths and ship and they would decorate trees with

554
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: images and icons of everything that they wanted to bring

555
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 1: in with the new year. So it wasn't even just

556
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 1: specifically like oh, we want the tree to look pretty,

557
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 1: but like like it in my house. We you know,

558
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 1: decorate the tree with all of these different Christmas ornaments

559
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 1: that are very like specific and particular in all of

560
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 1: memories associate with them. That is very fucking traditional Yule Christmas.

561
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 1: And also deck rating the tree with nuts as probably

562
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 1: a fertility thing. Everything was a fertility thing that obsessed

563
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 1: with sex. What's wrong with these people? One problem with

564
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 1: researching anything pagan is that there's a ton of fake

565
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 1: history around and or not even like fake history, but

566
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 1: like incorrect information or like best guesses that get presented

567
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: as fact. And I mean, I'm literally doing my best

568
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 1: guess is presented with as fact. But I'm trying to

569
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 1: be aware of that. There's this persistent rumor, and I'm

570
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 1: wondering if you've heard this rumor that the decorating of

571
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 1: trees and Pagan times was like and trails of sacrifice. No,

572
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: I've not heard that, but I mean I could, I

573
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 1: could see how you would be like Christmas Garland. It's

574
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 1: like hanging intestines around the tree. Yeah, I can't find

575
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 1: any information besides like lots of people talking about that rumor.

576
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 1: No one's like this is a true thing. Well, there

577
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 1: are some things, but they're on like really, they're like

578
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 1: on websites that might as well be geo cities with

579
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 1: like animated gifts of candles or whatever. You know, it's

580
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 1: completely possible. I don't fucking know, but candles and nuts

581
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 1: and fruits and icons and shipped on the tree. Absolutely,

582
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 1: And like Colens in Rome, ull came with men dressing

583
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 1: like women, women dressing like men, and all everyone dressing

584
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 1: up like animals. Because as soon as you have a

585
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 1: moment where you like drop social norms, everyone's like fuck

586
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:31,280
Speaker 1: yeah timed to cross dress and that rules. The dressing

587
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 1: like animals was like probably a little bit less like

588
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 1: modern furry culture and a little bit more like I'm

589
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,879
Speaker 1: a spooky ghost. Here's the skull of an animal or whatever. Yeah,

590
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 1: it's kind of more more more in line with some

591
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 1: of our current Halloween stuff. Yeah. Absolutely, there's actually a

592
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 1: lot of weird overlap. We're gonna get to a sailing later.

593
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: There's a lot of overlap between Halloween and Christmas and

594
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 1: all of these like chaos traditions. They basically kind of

595
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 1: split out the chaos parts of Christmas and gave it

596
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 1: to how Loween. Also, both Collens and Yule had leaving

597
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 1: food out for the deities, I mean, Santa Claus whatever

598
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 1: the angles like of the Anglo Saxons called the main

599
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 1: knight of Yule Mother's Night, only they called it in English,

600
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 1: sort of English. And the food was left out for

601
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 1: the Hungry Mother spirits because they just wanted to be medalist.

602
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 1: Fuck right, And I'm really into this, especially since I'm

603
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 1: pretty sure it was my mom who left eight the

604
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: cookies we left out for Santa Hungry Mother. Missiletoe may

605
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,439
Speaker 1: or may not have come from Yule specifically, it wasn't

606
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 1: a Christmas thing until the eighteenth century. The missiletoe got

607
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 1: like added either back in or added in for the

608
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 1: first time. But missiletoe is pagan as fuck. The white

609
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 1: berries are the semen of the gods. Alrighty then, okay,

610
00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 1: it was like everyone who's like doing something else will

611
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: into this episode. Is like everyone which is interesting because

612
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:11,280
Speaker 1: they're poisonous as fuck, you know, you know. So Nope,

613
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 1: not gonna make too easy, too easy, too easy of

614
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: jokes to make not doing it. Okay, Well I was

615
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 1: gonna say, it's a note to self about don't go

616
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:23,800
Speaker 1: down on God's Oh ah see, I can't. I can't.

617
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 1: I cannot support that though. Sorry, you're willing to You're

618
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 1: willing to risk the Yeah, the poison. Yeah, here's here's like,

619
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,359
Speaker 1: as a matter of fact, that's what I'm doing after this. No,

620
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 1: this like a series of concentric eye rings shows up

621
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 1: in the background on the Gears screen, mistletoe garlands everywhere. Amazing. Um.

622
00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 1: But yeah, and this is like, how so is this

623
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 1: incredibly potent fertility symbol the missiletoe because it's like the

624
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: Seman tree or whatever. Um. And so this is how

625
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 1: powerful syncretism is because it said, the fucking eighteenth century

626
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,919
Speaker 1: and people are still adding new fertility rights into Christmas ship.

627
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:19,479
Speaker 1: This wasn't even one that like held on the whole time.

628
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 1: This was like in the eighteenth century people were like,

629
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 1: you want to you want to bring that which ship

630
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 1: back into this and everyone's like yeah, I do. Like,

631
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:35,360
Speaker 1: let's make out under the fucking under God's semen um.

632
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 1: Another thing that comes from le so Odin is one

633
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 1: of the central figures of Yule because it's literally named

634
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 1: after him, and Yule is famed for the Wild Hunt,

635
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 1: and the Wild Hunt is found in a ton of cultures.

636
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 1: I really like the Wild Hunt, especially the Canadian two

637
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 1: thousand nine film called The Wild Hunt. I watched that.

638
00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 1: It's a large gone wrong movie. Oh, I feel like you.

639
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: We have talked. We have talked about this before. Yeah,

640
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 1: I've tried to make everyone watch it. We almost watched this,

641
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:10,360
Speaker 1: and instead we watched night Writers, Night Writers, which was

642
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 1: not a bad choice. Writers thing. Again, Robert will hear

643
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 1: us and then bring it up in every conversation for

644
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 1: at least two months. We don't okay, we don't need this. Well,

645
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 1: the movie The Wild Hunt. A lot of my LARPer

646
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 1: friends don't like it because they don't like any Larpe

647
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: gone wrong movie. But um, I enjoyed it anyway. The

648
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 1: Wild Hunt is this thing that's found through a ton

649
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:37,280
Speaker 1: of cultures. It is this like ghostly hunt through the heavens.

650
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's led by Odin. Sometimes it's led like hunters

651
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,359
Speaker 1: or the ghosts of the dead. It's in like it's

652
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 1: not always led by Odin, right, because it's a ton

653
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 1: of cultures and there's just like pale riders and just

654
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 1: all this ship is like really fucking common. It's this

655
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 1: thing that people fucking see and they either see it

656
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 1: in the woods on the ground or they see it

657
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 1: in the fucking sky in the heavens, and then they

658
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,319
Speaker 1: like attribute all this foclore to it. And I'm really

659
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 1: interested in it because I've spent a lot of time

660
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 1: living alone in the woods and sometimes at night you

661
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 1: hear the Wildest Ship, and I'm just like, like, I

662
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 1: have a night where I was like convinced I heard

663
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 1: the Wild Hunt. I might have been sleep paralyzed. A

664
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 1: lot of my understanding of mythology comes from the fact

665
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 1: that I suffer from sleep paralysis. I mean, yeah, because

666
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 1: that's that's that that makes sense anyway. Sometimes the Wild

667
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: Hunt abducts people. Sometimes it's an omen being like you

668
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:32,399
Speaker 1: see the Wild Hunt, you're gonna die. I didn't die,

669
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 1: to my knowledge. There's versions of it all over the place,

670
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 1: and Santa Santa riding around in the sky bass the

671
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 1: fucking Wild Hunt. I mean that that's that's super interesting

672
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 1: because like like this this, this, this, this idea of

673
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: like the wild Hunt, right, some of that in a

674
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,800
Speaker 1: folklore sense. Has the modern version of that would be

675
00:39:55,840 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 1: like alien abductions. Oh yeah, right, Like that's kind of

676
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 1: like the that's kind of like the high strangeness idea

677
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:07,320
Speaker 1: of like there's been these types of stories and that

678
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 1: that are that are either like referencing some type of

679
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 1: hallucination or some type of like dream state that we

680
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:16,280
Speaker 1: enter to sometimes and it always filters through whatever stage

681
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 1: our culture is in. So sometimes it's stuff like this

682
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 1: in the wild Huse. Sometimes it's more like sci Fi

683
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 1: with the with like the little gray aliens. Sometimes it's

684
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:29,319
Speaker 1: you know, a weird sleep paralysis demon coming into your

685
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 1: room and transporting you to to another place. There's like

686
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 1: always always like slightly different versions of it. No, it's

687
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 1: I like that, I really like that. Um. Alien abduction

688
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 1: is the new Santa I mean the new Wild Hunt.

689
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 1: And then Santa himself is a mixed match of a

690
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,400
Speaker 1: ton of different ship and a bunch of different European cultures,

691
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 1: was sort of claim Santa Um. But for my money,

692
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 1: Santa Claus is a mix of old St Nick and

693
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 1: this finished creature Julapuki, the Christmas goat who was a

694
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 1: pre Christian figure, and he's basically aware goat. Sophie, have

695
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 1: you've heard of You've heard of this creature? I have not. Oh,

696
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 1: gare you'll like this? Yeah, I've been like I've been

697
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:19,439
Speaker 1: like Crampus pilled for a long time. But so, yeah,

698
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 1: he's this like man who turns into part goat part

699
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 1: man sometimes. So he's a fucking wear goat and he

700
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 1: wears red robes like lined with white fur and rides

701
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 1: around in a sleigh pulled by reindeer and scares kids.

702
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 1: Oh really, huh curious? What what? What does that remind

703
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 1: me of? Yeah? So Santa Claus is a fucking wear goat.

704
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 1: Sometimes he's an invisible spirit who helps bring in the

705
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:49,439
Speaker 1: new year by helping the light return. It's like worth

706
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,359
Speaker 1: noting here that Finland has its own pagan traditions, um

707
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 1: several different ones, the different Finnish tribes of different religions

708
00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:59,840
Speaker 1: and pagan cultures that are separate from like the Germanic

709
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 1: pagan traditions and also separate from the Slavic traditions closer

710
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:05,800
Speaker 1: to the Slavic ones as far as I understand, but

711
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: please don't quote me on that or please don't yell

712
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 1: at me fins and if you do, um, just the

713
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:12,359
Speaker 1: altbatically beat the soft and not at me, and I'll

714
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 1: be like, hey, I know what those words mean. And

715
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: then if you yell any other words, I won't understand them,

716
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:20,919
Speaker 1: so oh yeah, and then like St. Nicholas, the whole

717
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 1: thing with him is that, well that's the Protestants fault.

718
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 1: I think we'll get to that later. Okay, basically everyone

719
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:33,359
Speaker 1: has Solstice holidays, usually filled with weird demons in the sky.

720
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:38,240
Speaker 1: How could you not? And now let's talk about medieval Christmas.

721
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 1: Just kidding. Now it's in the episode and you have

722
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 1: to wait till Wednesday to hear about medieval Oh, I'm

723
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 1: gonna be on the edge of my seat till Wednesday.

724
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 1: I know. We definitely don't record these back to back.

725
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 1: We record these when they drive to be peering, peering

726
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 1: out of the night sky, hoping not to be taken

727
00:42:55,960 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 1: away by a scary ghast man. I was so, I

728
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:06,759
Speaker 1: was so scared of alien abduction as a kid. Yeah,

729
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:13,800
Speaker 1: it actually tracks magpie. Now I live alone in the woods,

730
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 1: but I still feel like you're afraid of bilion abduction.

731
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 1: I don't know. I like, like sometimes my friends come

732
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 1: over and then they're like, what was that noise? And

733
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't know, something outside And They're like,

734
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 1: how does that not scare you? And I'm like, the

735
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 1: outside makes a lot of noises. I'm in the forest.

736
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,720
Speaker 1: Yeah no, But like that that the whole wild hunting

737
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 1: is very reminiscent of the type of like forest like

738
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 1: forest alien abductions that people talk about, and it just

739
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 1: it it just connects connects to the overall high stranger,

740
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 1: this idea of of you know, of of these types

741
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 1: of of being taken to these other places that we

742
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:54,279
Speaker 1: see throughout folklore, even stuff like um ali jab being

743
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 1: carried to heaven in like chariots of fire. Like it's

744
00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:59,879
Speaker 1: it's it's the same, it's it's the same idea. Wait,

745
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 1: I don't know that that's just like well just like

746
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 1: um you know there's a bad Christian if that's a

747
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 1: Christians just multiple multiple stories in the Bible of people

748
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 1: being being being taken up and then sometimes sometimes returned.

749
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:17,719
Speaker 1: Um Enoch being one, which is you know, resulting in

750
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 1: stuff like the Emerald tablet. We have, we have Elijah

751
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:26,880
Speaker 1: being taking being taken up, um inside inside a chariot.

752
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:30,760
Speaker 1: But you know it's like that's like an alien craft

753
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 1: coming down, picking you up and taking you up into

754
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 1: the sky. That's that is what that story is. Um,

755
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:38,360
Speaker 1: we just have different different versions of it. Let lasting

756
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:42,360
Speaker 1: now and then. I love that like lights in the

757
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 1: hills and the skies is like a persistent part of

758
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:48,320
Speaker 1: folklore and they're just like a part of people's like

759
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:51,839
Speaker 1: lived experiences of just like what's that fucking light over there?

760
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 1: Is just like a thing that happens when you spend

761
00:44:55,600 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 1: a lot of time away from cities. Cool. Okay, Well,

762
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about Revelry on Wednesday, Garrison to play

763
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 1: Harrison Davis. Do you have anything that you would like

764
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 1: to tell our listeners? What are you plug in? What

765
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 1: do you plug in? Well? I just wrapped an fast

766
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:20,280
Speaker 1: series that I that I I just I just trapped

767
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 1: up a series that I wrote with my colleague James

768
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 1: Stout about trans people living in a ranch in Rule,

769
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 1: Colorado and how they survived in attack by fascists. So

770
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:34,400
Speaker 1: that's that's on. It could happen here. It's a four

771
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 1: part series. So that that just that just wrapped up.

772
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 1: That's kind of the most recent thing that I have

773
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 1: that I've done and I should have. I should have

774
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 1: a very interesting article coming out soon, but I do

775
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:50,320
Speaker 1: not know when that's gonna be fully fully published. But

776
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:53,440
Speaker 1: you can if you follow me on either Twitter Instagram

777
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 1: at Hungry about I, you will certainly certainly be alerted

778
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 1: when when this bizarre, bizarre thing is finally is finally published.

779
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:07,479
Speaker 1: And if anyone would like to get to know Garrison, well,

780
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 1: please transform yourself into a series of concentric rings embedded

781
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 1: with eyes within eyes and show up at their po box.

782
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 1: You know, sure if if if you go through all

783
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:26,239
Speaker 1: that work and all of the transportation, then I'm I'm

784
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 1: surely I'll probably talk to you. That is that? That's

785
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 1: that does seem slightly impressive. Margaret, You are you have

786
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 1: a book that is available for pre order? Correct? I do? Yeah.

787
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:39,359
Speaker 1: My goal is to always have a book available from

788
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 1: pre order the entire run of this show, apparently. My

789
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:44,759
Speaker 1: current book available for pre order is called Escape from

790
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 1: Insul Island. It is a adventurous science fiction adventure novel novella.

791
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:55,359
Speaker 1: Um it's very short. You can read it in one day.

792
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 1: If you're the kind of person who's like I like

793
00:46:57,480 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 1: the idea of being someone who reads books, but I

794
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 1: have a hard time paying attention to something for a

795
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 1: long time. I highly recommend Escape from Insel Island. And

796
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 1: if you're an in cell and you live on an island,

797
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 1: I highly recommend Escape from Insil Island. But also you

798
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 1: have to stop in and in Cell first. That's oh.

799
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:17,800
Speaker 1: You could buy it by going to trink Tangled Wilderness

800
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 1: dot org and it is available for pre order now.

801
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:22,839
Speaker 1: And Sophie, do you have anything you would like to blog?

802
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:27,279
Speaker 1: Just at cool Zone Media on Instagram and Twitter. Yeah,

803
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I work because this is all part of

804
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 1: the cool Zone Media, which is cool by everyone. Cool

805
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 1: people who did cool stuff is a production of cool

806
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:41,479
Speaker 1: Zone Media. But more podcasts on cool Zone Media, visit

807
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 1: our website cool zone media dot com or check us

808
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 1: out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or

809
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:48,719
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.