1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: Poe Leo sounded off on a church honor to be 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: bestowed on a pro choice senator, but he may have 3 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: caused a bigger blowback than the initial controversy. The Prayerful Posse. 4 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: We'll explore it all next. Welcome to an important Prayerful Posse. 5 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: Be sure to go subscribe to the show now. It's 6 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:27,479 Speaker 1: a wonderful way to show your support for our work 7 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: and it's totally free, or you can visit Raymond Royo 8 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: dot com. Let's convene the posse. Canon lawyer Priest of 9 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 1: the Archdiocese of New York, Father Gerald Murray, and the 10 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 1: editor in chief of The Catholic Thing dot Org, Robert Royal. Gentlemen, boy, 11 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,519 Speaker 1: do we have a week? Last week we reported on 12 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 1: the ten US bishops to crying Cardinal blaze supitous decision 13 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: to bestow that Lifetime Achievement award on Catholic Illinois Senator 14 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: Dick Durbin. Durbin, of course, has been vehemently pro abortion 15 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: for decades. He's been banned from receiving communion in his 16 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: home diocese in Springfield Well. Durbin eventually refused the honor 17 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:09,040 Speaker 1: due to the firestorm, but only hours earlier, Pope Leo 18 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: was asked by EWT and News in Rome about the controversy, 19 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: and he said this. 20 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 2: I'm not terribly familiar with the particular case. I think 21 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 2: that it's very important to look at the overall work 22 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 2: that a senator has done during if I'm not mistaken, 23 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 2: forty years of service in the United States Senate. I 24 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 2: understand the difficulty and the tensions, but I think, as 25 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 2: I myself have spoken in the past, it's important to 26 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 2: look at many issues that are related to what is 27 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:42,839 Speaker 2: the teaching of the church. 28 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: Bob, is it conceivable that the pope a Chicagoan, with 29 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: ten US bishops, his bishops protesting and apparently the entire 30 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: bishop's conference about to issue a statement on this durban thing. 31 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: Is it conceivable that he was not familiar with his case? 32 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 3: I already to have to say that I think he 33 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 3: knew about it, but he hoped that he was pouring 34 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 3: oil on the waters, And actually I think he poured 35 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 3: gasoline in the fire. Because we know that for decades 36 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 3: this has been the kind of the two step that 37 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 3: people who want to not to have to take the 38 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 3: hard steps of telling pro abortion politicians, usually democrats, not 39 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 3: to present themselves for communion. There have some very few 40 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 3: bishops in America that do this. Bishop Proprocy in Illinois, 41 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:34,639 Speaker 3: Archbishop of Cordlone even told Nancy Pelosi not to present herself. 42 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 3: So I think he had to know about this. And 43 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 3: unfortunately he's getting his feet and I think we have 44 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 3: to allow him. I mean, this was a kind of 45 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 3: a spur of the moment question at a press conference, 46 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 3: and he's getting his feet under him as a pope. 47 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 3: But I think we have to hope that he begins 48 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 3: to grow in the job a bit, because you can't 49 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:57,399 Speaker 3: keep repeating the same excuse that we've had for forty years, 50 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 3: that you can kill innocent life in the womb if 51 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 3: somehow you're so called good on other issues. That was 52 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 3: refuted by then Cardinal Ratzinger bag in a letter to 53 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 3: the Bishops of America in two thousand and four. As 54 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 3: we know, Cardinal McCarrick tried to misrepresent that letter to 55 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 3: our bishops. But in fact, what Cardinal Ratzinger said is 56 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 3: not all moral issues are on the same plane, and 57 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 3: obviously killing innocent human life is something different than being 58 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 3: so called good on immigration. 59 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 1: Father, it seems to me we have a trend going here, 60 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: I mean this interview, and I get that it was 61 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: a walk by as he left for Costal Gondolfo. But 62 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: there's an easy way to deal with this. Don't answer 63 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: the questions. Okay, wave and bless people and keep moving. 64 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: But when you couple this statement with what we heard 65 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: from that extended interview about church teaching and if you 66 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: change social attitudes, then we can change church teaching. I mean, 67 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: is it important to look at many issues related to 68 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 1: the teachings of the church while ignoring the most glaring one, 69 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: Durban's support for abortion when considering a record of a politician. 70 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 4: Yes, you mentioned the circumstances. It was actually in the 71 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 4: evening he was leaving Castle Gondolpho, because Pope Leo has 72 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 4: the custom now of going there every Tuesday to kind 73 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 4: of do some work off site and to relax a 74 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 4: little bit. So yeah, he chose the number one. Why 75 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 4: were the reporters allowed to be there? The Holy See 76 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 4: could have shut him down and Pope wouldn't have even 77 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 4: seen them, but they were allowed to be there, and 78 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 4: then the Pope walked over and answered their questions. So 79 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 4: I think what we're getting is a repeat of what 80 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 4: Francis did, and admittedly Pope John Paul the Second and 81 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 4: Benedict did similar things, which is to grant access to 82 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 4: reporters who then of course talk about topics that are 83 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 4: in the news. And knowing that Pope Leo, you know, 84 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 4: could anticipate it would seem to me that there be 85 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 4: a question about this, because it's a major scandal in 86 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 4: the United States when a pro abortion Catholic is honored 87 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 4: by the Cardinal Large Bishop of Chicago. So I think 88 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 4: he knew that he was probably going to have to 89 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 4: answer it, and then while demuring a saying didn't know much, 90 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 4: he certainly knew enough to say that this man's career 91 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 4: merited further consideration beyond his pro abortion stance, to which 92 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 4: I say, what consideration could mollify or minimize his support 93 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 4: for killing unborn children. Nothing. The US Catholic bishop said 94 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 4: the priority item that the Catholic Church focus on the 95 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 4: US is to end the killing of children by abortion. 96 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:42,479 Speaker 4: So Cardinal supic And giving the award knew that he 97 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 4: was going against the constant policy of the bishops of 98 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 4: the United States. It's even in his own diocese in 99 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,840 Speaker 4: guidelines not to honor pro abortion Catholics. So the long 100 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,919 Speaker 4: and the short of it is, Pope Leo decided to 101 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 4: wade into this in a way that is not, I 102 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 4: think the most careful way to do it, and he 103 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 4: did so stating this and other things that you know, 104 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 4: quite frankly, don't compute with me and do not conform 105 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 4: to the way the Catholic Church presents her teaching Bob. 106 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: In some ways, the Pope is echoing Cardinal Supach's original 107 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 1: defense of that award that there are many issues to consider, 108 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 1: not just one. Do you buy that? No? 109 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 3: Look, as I said earlier, this is what we've been 110 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 3: hearing for decades from our bishops who don't want to 111 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 3: take a hard stance and recognize really what is at 112 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 3: stake here. Cardinal Supauc himself, in trying to defend what 113 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 3: was going on in Chicago, said that, well, because of 114 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 3: polarization and politicization of the United States, no Catholic politician 115 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:51,280 Speaker 3: is really able because of the way the parties are 116 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 3: to be fully Catholic, that there is no real. 117 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:55,600 Speaker 5: Home for Catholics. Right. 118 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:59,119 Speaker 3: I think this is a nonsensical way to approach this question, 119 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 3: because if that's the case, if neither the Republicans nor 120 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 3: the Democrats have a holy Catholic approach to issues, well, 121 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 3: then don't give political awards. I was in Chicago last 122 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 3: week and I spoke to a group called Aid for 123 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 3: the Women, which was created independently right after Roe v. Wade, 124 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 3: and for all the years since Roe v. Wade has 125 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 3: been defending women, helping women with problematic pregnancies, giving them 126 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 3: homes to live in, helping them take care of their babies, 127 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 3: getting them jobs afterwards. This is an organization that for 128 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 3: fifty years is defended life in Chicago and the general 129 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 3: Chicago area. You want to honor somebody, to honor them. 130 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 3: If the politicians don't come up to snuff, then fine. 131 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 3: Politics is not entirely separate from Catholicism. But we don't 132 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 3: have to honor anyone. There's no urgency to do that, 133 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 3: especially when we have somebody who's flagrantly not only in 134 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 3: favor of abortion, but in favor of gay marriage and 135 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 3: a variety of other things. 136 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 5: The country to Catholic teaching. 137 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: All right, I want to move on to the next 138 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: portion of Leo's comments. Here we talked about the meaning 139 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 1: of the term father pro life. 140 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 2: Someone who says I'm against abortion, but says, I'm in 141 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 2: favor of the death penalty is not really pro life. 142 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 2: So someone who says that I'm against abortion, but I'm 143 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 2: in agreement with the inhuman treatment of immigrants or in 144 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 2: the United States, I don't know if that's pro life. 145 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: You don't. I don't mean to be impertinent, But he's 146 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: the Pope. Why doesn't he know? 147 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 4: Father, Well, he's posing rhetorical questions to make a point 148 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 4: without stating it flat out. Instead of saying, if you're 149 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 4: pro in favor of the death penalty, you're not pro life, 150 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 4: he says, I don't know if they're pro life. Well. 151 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 4: As a matter of fact, the Catholic Church has never 152 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 4: taught that the death penalty is immoral. And this is 153 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 4: a big problem that we inherited from Pope Francis where 154 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 4: he changed the categorism the Catholic Church and he used 155 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 4: very puzzling language where he said the death penalty is inadmissible, 156 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 4: not a moral category. That's a prudential judgment about the 157 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 4: use of a penalty. But is it inadmissible because it's 158 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 4: immoral or is it inadmissible because there are too many 159 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 4: mistakes when you use it? 160 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:07,680 Speaker 5: Well? 161 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 4: In other things, Pope Francis said that it is a 162 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 4: violation of human dignity to use the death penalty, so 163 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 4: that indicates he thought it was immoral. So with all 164 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 4: that background, Pope Leo is continuing that line of thought. 165 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 4: The problem is the Catholic Church has always taught that 166 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:27,119 Speaker 4: the death penalty is a legitimate penalty that civil authorities 167 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 4: can impose for serious crimes. And if you can't be 168 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 4: pro death penalty and be pro life, well, you know, 169 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 4: look at all the saints in history. Saint Augustine and 170 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 4: Saint Thomas Aquinas justified this. Saint Jerome justified it. You know, 171 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 4: it's not helling, it's the administration of justice. So it's 172 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:51,719 Speaker 4: very disheartening also to have by implication saying that the 173 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 4: removal of illegal immigrants or illegal aliens in the United 174 00:09:55,760 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 4: States is in himself in human. I don't believe that 175 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 4: we live in a democracy. We live in a rule 176 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:09,079 Speaker 4: of law, and ice agents and other people, border patrol 177 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 4: people are trained professionals, and if someone's resisting arrest, of 178 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 4: course you're going to seize them. But that we don't 179 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 4: go in with truncheons and start hitting people over the 180 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 4: head and throwing them into the ground if they if 181 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:26,200 Speaker 4: they agree to, you know, if there's some and then 182 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 4: say you're under arrest and they don't try to fight 183 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:31,560 Speaker 4: the officers and there is no physical altercations. I don't 184 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 4: That's another thing I don't like. I don't believe either 185 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:37,959 Speaker 4: in ways they're doing it or the whole even the 186 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 4: proposition that to deport someone is in human it's not 187 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:46,199 Speaker 4: see itself doesn't allow illegal aliens to sleep in the 188 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 4: Vatican gardens, right right. 189 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: I'd like to try it with a you know, with 190 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 1: one of those raybam glasses on and see what happens 191 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: to me. They will toss me out faster than I 192 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 1: could walk in the gate. But the challenge here, father, 193 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 1: and Bob and Father, I'm going to pick up on 194 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 1: something you said. The Church has always taught that the 195 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: death penalty was admissible because it is a penalty for 196 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 1: taking innocent human life and spilling innocent human blood. And 197 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: it's not done by an individual out of vengeance. It's 198 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 1: done coldly and clinically by the state after someone has 199 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: been tried. That is not the case of an unborn child. Bob, 200 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: the Pope and Cardinal super you're basically saying the same thing. 201 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: We should not be single issue voters as citizens, but 202 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 1: they seem to have a single issue about which they're 203 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: most concerned, and that's immigration. They want no limits on immigration. 204 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm afraid that this is a kind of 205 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 3: a loser, not only politically but even religiously. Yes, the 206 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 3: developed world, which is, you know, the countries in Europe 207 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,679 Speaker 3: and the United States and Canada where I mean Australia 208 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 3: where many of the poor people in the world. 209 00:11:58,640 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 5: Want to travel to. 210 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 3: All these countries are feeling the effects of illegal immigration. 211 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 3: And the other moral consideration is what does it do 212 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 3: to the countries where massive numbers of people arrive who 213 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:17,199 Speaker 3: may or may not be integratable into those societies, who 214 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 3: bring with them crime and other sorts of problems. Look, 215 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 3: it's been reported even in political circles that under President Obama, 216 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 3: who most people think are very humane in the way 217 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 3: he was willing to receive people from other countries, two 218 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:37,560 Speaker 3: million people were deported during the two administrations of President Obama. 219 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,839 Speaker 3: Any country that does not have a control of its 220 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 3: border is not a country, to use the phrase that 221 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 3: we we often hear, and there's a reason for that. 222 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 3: There's a reason for the same reason that if somebody 223 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:53,679 Speaker 3: shows up in your house without your permission, they're not undocumented. 224 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 3: This is a phrase that the Cardinal McElroy and doing 225 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 3: a mass for migrants and immigrants the other day. The 226 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 3: Cardinal Archbiser of Washington, DC eleven times use the term 227 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 3: undocumented as if it's just like somebody forgot their driver's 228 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 3: license and they showed up and suddenly people are picking 229 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 3: them up. No, what's happening is people arrived here illegally. 230 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 3: And so when people try to enforce the law, yeah, okay, occasionally, 231 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 3: like with a policeman, maybe there is somebody who loses 232 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 3: his temper and then we're going to see a you know, 233 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 3: a iPhone taking the pictures of that. But to have 234 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 3: a cop that is losing his temper doesn't mean that 235 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 3: policing as such is immoral. And similarly, to remove people 236 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 3: who arrived here illegally. Now I'm going to make a 237 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 3: controversial statement. I think that the United States bears a 238 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 3: certain responsibility, a moral responsibility. If people say, have been 239 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 3: here ten years, haven't broken the law, have observed our laws, 240 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:56,320 Speaker 3: have supported themselves, had jobs, et cetera, then we a 241 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 3: conversation about maybe a compromise. But people who just arrived here, 242 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 3: especially people who are criminals and causing trouble in the society. 243 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 3: This isn't only not inhumane, it is being humane towards 244 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 3: the people who are here and have to suffer the 245 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 3: problems that are brought and then pay for people who 246 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 3: show up. It's a problem of all the developed countries, 247 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 3: and I'm afraid the Church is going to have to 248 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 3: come to terms with the fact that this is not 249 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 3: simply racism or anti immigrants sentiment. It's realism about what 250 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 3: it's life to live in a particular nation. 251 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: Now we're seeing this all across Europe, father, and I 252 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: mean one could make the argument and having been to 253 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: the Rio Grand watching young girls and women trafficked across 254 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: those waters, you know, the unfettered and unregulated immigration only 255 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 1: encourages human trafficking, sexual exploitation. And talk to border officials 256 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: and people in law enforcement along those border communities. They 257 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: will show you the carnage. They'll show you what inhumanity 258 00:14:55,640 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: looks like. And it's these cartels who abuse these women particularly, 259 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 1: and men who make this journey. I'll give you the 260 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: last word on this before we move on. 261 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 5: Yeah. 262 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 4: No, that's right. I mean, imagine if the Drug Enforcement 263 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 4: Agency announced we will no longer interdict drugs coming into 264 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 4: the country. What do you think would happen. This is 265 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 4: what happened in the last administration. Would it be in 266 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 4: humane to say, now we're going to stop the drugs coming. 267 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 4: Of course not. It's the same thing with people. Now 268 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 4: people are not objects their personal beings, but personal beings 269 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 4: have more responsibility, and when you arrest them, you're reminding 270 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 4: them you had a knowledge that you were entering illegally. 271 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 4: Therefore you have to be responsible for your acts. And 272 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 4: as the administration has said, if you voluntarily self deport 273 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 4: you have a chance to come back in the future. 274 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 4: So our country is a country based on law and justice. 275 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 4: It's not in human or in humane to say I'm 276 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 4: sorry people come in here legally cannot stay. Well. 277 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: Also, in light of what we're seeing law enforcement shot attacked, 278 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: I think it's very very dangerous for anyone in the 279 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: public domain, particularly legis leaders, to somehow say that person 280 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 1: is inhumane. They're inhuman in what they're doing. That's targeting 281 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: people who are enforcing the law, and in many cases 282 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: Catholics who are 'enforcing the law. But I want to 283 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 1: move on. This is the next part of what Pope 284 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 1: Leo had to say about the complexity of the life 285 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 1: issues WAD. 286 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 2: They're very complex issues. I don't know if anyone has 287 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 2: all the truth on them. But I would ask first 288 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 2: and foremost that there'd be greater respect for one another 289 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 2: and that we search together, both as human beings in 290 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 2: that case, as American citizens or citizens of the state 291 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 2: of Illinois, as well as Catholics, to say we need 292 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 2: to you know, really the closes at all of these 293 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 2: ethical issues and to find the way forward as church. 294 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 2: The church teaching on each one of those issues is 295 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 2: very clear. 296 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: Father, the Pope calls for respect and that we're somehow 297 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 1: searching together for what a clear moral teaching on the 298 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: gravity of abortion. What are we searching for? 299 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 4: Well, I would ask a question forward toward what. And 300 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 4: as you know, the Catholic Church is a body commissioned 301 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 4: by God. Christ commission the Church to teach the truth. 302 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:15,920 Speaker 4: So we know where the truth is. The truth which 303 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 4: sets us free is in the teaching of the Church, 304 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:20,920 Speaker 4: and those who are faithful to the teaching the Church 305 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 4: have the truth. So when you say nobody has all 306 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 4: the truth, well, okay, that's the way you can justify 307 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:30,440 Speaker 4: that statement. But we have to be quite clear. Pro 308 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 4: abortionists are peddling lies and falsehoods. People who defend the 309 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,680 Speaker 4: right to life are propagating the truth. Now, the last 310 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 4: thing I'll say is I respect people, but I don't 311 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 4: always respect their opinions. And that's that's the logic that 312 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,200 Speaker 4: we live life on. You know, if somebody walks into 313 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 4: my church and wants to say a prayer, if I'm 314 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 4: very happy, if I find out, you know, that they 315 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 4: don't believe in Jesus as the son of God and 316 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 4: they're praying to a false God, that's I don't respect that. 317 00:17:58,440 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 4: But I'm going to say, Okay, I'm not going to 318 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 4: say stop you from doing that. Privately, you can't come 319 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 4: in and seize my church. So no, The point here 320 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:08,440 Speaker 4: has to be why is it that whenever people who 321 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 4: violate Catholic teaching are called to task, there's a whole 322 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 4: bunch of people line up and say, don't be mean 323 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 4: to that person. He's only doing what he thinks is best. 324 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 4: We never say that about people who pedal drugs or 325 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 4: run prostitution rings. They think they're doing what's best for them. No, 326 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 4: they're exploiting other people. And people who promote abortion are 327 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 4: killing other people, maybe not themselves directly, but they're paying 328 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,920 Speaker 4: for it and they're defending its continued legality. Let's get 329 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:39,159 Speaker 4: real here, Dick Durbin is not an innocent bystander who 330 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 4: is ambushed by Bishop Pprocky. This is a moral agent 331 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 4: who knows that thet says don't do it, and he says, 332 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 4: I don't care, I'm gonna do it. 333 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: Bob, your thoughts on this, this idea that we're still 334 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:56,640 Speaker 1: searching for. I guess the truth together, But in my estimation, 335 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 1: it's the pope's job. Indeed, it's his function to tell 336 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: us that truth. He is the protector of the doctrine 337 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 1: of Jesus Christ. Either that's true and it's solid and 338 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: it can be passed on, or it can't. 339 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 5: Look I would like to cut him a little bit 340 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 5: of slack here. 341 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:16,199 Speaker 3: I think that this kind of answering the question on 342 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,680 Speaker 3: the fly is a very dangerous thing to do. And then, 343 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 3: of course he relies on what is kind of the 344 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 3: common way of getting out from under a political difficulty. 345 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 5: But if we want to think very. 346 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 3: Carefully about these issues, it's not actually all that hard. 347 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 3: The Church has thought about these things for years and years. 348 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 3: We have some very clear teachings, and he keeps pointing 349 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,120 Speaker 3: back to those teachings. He says, in fact, that if 350 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 3: we follow the Catechism, that's the way to avoid division 351 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 3: in the church. And what the Catechism would tell us 352 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 3: about the so called complexity of issues is, yes, there 353 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 3: are several important moral questions in a society. But let's 354 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 3: take a question about poverty programs. I mean, that's a 355 00:19:55,840 --> 00:20:01,120 Speaker 3: prudential judgment. Is it better to have policies directly give 356 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:02,919 Speaker 3: money to the poor or is it better to have 357 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 3: policies that create more jobs. I mean, that's a legitimate debate. 358 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 3: It's a political debate. Is it better to have more 359 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:12,120 Speaker 3: immigration or less, that's a political debate. Those things are 360 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:15,679 Speaker 3: prudential judgments that people can disagree about, and it's not 361 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,399 Speaker 3: one side or the other that is simply immoral. But 362 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 3: when it comes to the taking of human life, we 363 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 3: are in the presence of something that is an absolute evil. 364 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 3: It is something that is a model them in say, 365 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,439 Speaker 3: if I can use some ecclesial Latin here, it's an 366 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 3: evil in itself. We know the committing murder is an 367 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,159 Speaker 3: evil in itself, and it's if you don't believe the 368 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 3: killing a baby in the woman is the same as 369 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 3: killing a person who's walking around alive, well, then you've 370 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 3: departed from Catholic, really deep Catholic social teaching, because the 371 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:50,720 Speaker 3: respect owe to the dignity of every human person is 372 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:54,160 Speaker 3: for every human person unborn near the end of life 373 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 3: and in the middle. There's clarity here. The Pope kind 374 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:00,640 Speaker 3: of half has said this, and perhaps as he gets 375 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 3: more comfortable in the job and more capable of dealing 376 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 3: with these situations, he'll bring that kind of consistency even 377 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 3: to these situations. But clearly he hasn't quite yet connected 378 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 3: at the level of being able to talk off the 379 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 3: cuff about a difficult issue. 380 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 1: Like, well, I have to say, and Father, i'd like 381 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 1: your response on this if I were advising him, and 382 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 1: I'm not, but if I were, one of the first 383 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: things I would say is you're the Pope. What you 384 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,679 Speaker 1: say now has enormous weight. And when you see people 385 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 1: in other faiths saying in headlines above this statement, the 386 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 1: video of this statement by the Pope, this is why 387 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 1: the Scripture has to be the final word for Christians. 388 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:46,160 Speaker 1: On doctrine and not any man. This undermines the evangelical 389 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: witness of the Church, and I would argue the clarity 390 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:50,679 Speaker 1: of the church. And you should see my comments. The 391 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: faithful are just shattered by this. Father. Your reaction to that, 392 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 1: whether the Pope should continue Pope Francis's trend of kind 393 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 1: of doing these off the cuff interviews and do you 394 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:06,120 Speaker 1: think this sturban refusal was really a face saving operation. 395 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,479 Speaker 4: Well, No, as regards to interviews, he should not do 396 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 4: interviews while he's walking out of a building, or I 397 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 4: would say even on a plane. The Pope is the 398 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 4: principal teacher of the Catholic Church, and therefore what he 399 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 4: says is paid attention to. If a bishop in a 400 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,399 Speaker 4: far away place says something very few people hear it, 401 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 4: the Pope has heard universally. Plus, he's the guarante of 402 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:35,880 Speaker 4: truth because he enjoys the charism of infallibility, and he's 403 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 4: not invoking that here, but he knows that his responsibility 404 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,639 Speaker 4: is to teach infallible truths on a constant basis, I 405 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 4: would say, no more interviews like this. What I would 406 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:49,640 Speaker 4: say is give teaching that is accessible. In other words, 407 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 4: the colloquial style of an interview should also be reflected 408 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 4: in his writings. And you know you're a good editor 409 00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 4: of Raymond and Roberts. You know what it is. Concision 410 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 4: allows people to read something and not fall asleep. 411 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 5: You know. 412 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 4: So too many of the documents in the church are 413 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 4: one hundred and fifty pages long. The only ones who 414 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 4: read it are those paid to read it, like people 415 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 4: like us. So on that point, I'll say that's the 416 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 4: way I would go. Now, on the deeper issue that 417 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 4: we have here, I think the Pope has to, you know, 418 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 4: take stock that if he's going to say I really 419 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 4: don't know enough about it and then talk about it, 420 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,479 Speaker 4: then he says he really does know enough about it, 421 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 4: when I would say, has Bob did it? I don't 422 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,880 Speaker 4: think he knows enough about it? In one sense, because 423 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 4: this involved not simply Soupic and Durban. This involved other bishops, 424 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 4: that involved the US Bishop's Conference, right, involved the entire 425 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 4: non Catholic world looking with wonderment at the Archbishop of 426 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 4: Chicago because he did something no archbishop in the United 427 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 4: States has done, which is to single out a pro 428 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:59,239 Speaker 4: abortion man of some prominence and say you deserve an 429 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:04,159 Speaker 4: achievement of war for your lifetime activities. This is you know, 430 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 4: Evangelicals don't expect this. Jewish people who are against abortion said, 431 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 4: wait a minute, I thought you were on our side, 432 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:15,120 Speaker 4: you know, Cardinal Supic So it's a problem. 433 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: But to pick up on that though, Bob, don't you 434 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:22,719 Speaker 1: think by the Pope weighing in this way and trying 435 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 1: to almost give some cover to Cardinal Supage on this question. 436 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: The whole Durban Soupage scandal that the bishops are up 437 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,120 Speaker 1: in arms over, that's kind of been blown away. Now 438 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 1: we're talking about the pope who is freelancing on these 439 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 1: moral issues and can't really say that abortion is of 440 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:47,440 Speaker 1: a higher grave matter than the immigration reform. 441 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 3: Well, I think he can. And again I would say 442 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 3: that I think he's finding his way. He's admitted that, 443 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 3: you know, to be the be playing on a world 444 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:57,920 Speaker 3: stage like this is something that he's never done before. 445 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 3: We can hope and pray that he's going to mature 446 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 3: in the job and become more capable of what's doing. 447 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 3: And I wouldn't neglect as father rightly said that there 448 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 3: were ten bishops and we know at least we hear 449 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 3: because it's hard to get insider information about this, that 450 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 3: the entire US Bishop's Conference was preparing. 451 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 5: A statement about this. 452 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 3: They've crossed swords with Cardinal Suppitch in the past and 453 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 3: Cardinal Supermach in the past how to support of Pope Francis, 454 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 3: of course, But I think from what I'm hearing that 455 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 3: the Bishop's Conference told the Nuncio here in Washington, and 456 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 3: they alerted Rome to the fact that there was a 457 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:38,719 Speaker 3: statement coming out, and so, you know, to get in 458 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 3: between all of that, I think that what Leo probably 459 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:42,680 Speaker 3: wanted to do was to keep himself out of it, 460 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 3: and he didn't have the chops yet to just stay 461 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 3: away from it. And he probably doesn't want to be 462 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 3: a micromanager in places even like Chicago, which he is from. 463 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 3: But still, if you're going to be the pope, you 464 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 3: have to measure every word. I often say there are 465 00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 3: two people on earth who have to measure every word, 466 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 3: Rome and the President of the United States, because both 467 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,119 Speaker 3: of them can have world shattering effects from the words 468 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:06,880 Speaker 3: that they pronounced. 469 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, Father, I think you could call this episode the 470 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 1: last victory of Theodore mcarrick in some way. I mean, 471 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: Bob referenced this earlier back in two thousand and four, 472 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 1: when Cardinal mcarick met with the future Pope Benedict and 473 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 1: the US bishops wanted to deny communion to John Carey, 474 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 1: another Catholic politician who supported abortion. McCarrick basically suppressed the 475 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: letter written by Cardinal Rothzinger advising the bishops to meet 476 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: with politicians, warn them, and if they continued in their 477 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: public manifest sin deny them communion, and he added this quote, 478 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 1: I'm going to read this. It's so important. There may 479 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:50,440 Speaker 1: be legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging 480 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: war and applying the death penalty, but not however, with 481 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,920 Speaker 1: regard to abortion or euthanasia. My question to you, father 482 00:26:59,080 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: is what chain? 483 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:02,440 Speaker 5: What changed? 484 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 4: Is the man occupying the throne to Saint Peter, you know, 485 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,359 Speaker 4: I mean, that's what the obviously what changed. But also 486 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:12,600 Speaker 4: what changed, I think is that Pope Leo has demonstrated 487 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 4: that he is much more comfortable in talking about these 488 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:21,400 Speaker 4: issues in a way that represents an attempt to find 489 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 4: an accommodation with people who promote abortion and other horrific 490 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 4: things in the life of the church. Certainly, his statements 491 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:34,679 Speaker 4: in his interview to the Crux reporter release Allen regarding 492 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 4: how we're going to deal with the question of homosexuality 493 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:42,159 Speaker 4: in the church. And that was previously. That was James 494 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 4: Martin having a private audience and coming out and saying 495 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,119 Speaker 4: the Pope said, continue your work. This is not how 496 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 4: John Paul the Second and Benedict managed things. This is 497 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,359 Speaker 4: how Pope Francis did things. And I think we're seeing 498 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:58,120 Speaker 4: more of that. Back to the Mcaray thing though, I mean, 499 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,919 Speaker 4: as people may may be aware that he was a 500 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 4: very fraudulent person in so many ways. He cried exactly 501 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 4: to prevent Cardinal Ratzinger's letter to the bishops from being 502 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 4: in their hands. He summarized it for them. Fortunately it 503 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 4: was leaked and made the media. In fact, I compliment 504 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 4: e WTM because they put it on their website and 505 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,359 Speaker 4: that's where I got a copy of it. So yeah, 506 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 4: the fact of the matter is the good of the 507 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 4: church demands that its leaders speak consistently and truthfully and 508 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 4: not do this dance routine where if a cardinal says something, 509 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:33,880 Speaker 4: nobody can criticize him because he's a cardinal. Thank God 510 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 4: the time bishops stopped that. But now the next question 511 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 4: is Holy Father, now that you've said this, there are 512 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 4: other concerns that are raised. Would you please address those. 513 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 4: I hope and pray that the American bishops would tell 514 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 4: the Pope that we need more clarity when it comes 515 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 4: to these type of teachings. 516 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 1: Well, here we come to the point of clarity and 517 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: the Pope's roll, the Pope's job, if you will, in 518 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: the church. The Pope was also asked about in Italian 519 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 1: about US foreign policy and the distinction between the Department 520 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: of War, which is its new name, and the Department 521 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 1: of Defense, the former name before Trump changed it. He 522 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: said this, I'll read it to you. This way of 523 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 1: speaking is worrying because it shows each time and increase intentions, 524 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 1: this vocabulary, even shifting from Minister of Defense to Minister 525 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 1: of War. Let's hope it's only a way of speaking. Certainly, 526 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 1: they have a style of government where they want to 527 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: show strength to put pressure, and we hope it works, 528 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 1: but that there will not be war. One must always 529 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: work for peace. Bob Ah. It's kind of ironic the 530 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 1: Pope's urging clarity of language when he just had this 531 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 1: moral quicksand he was caught in Isn't this a prudential judgment? 532 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 1: And trusted to elected authorities to name departments in a 533 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 1: government whatever they want. 534 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 3: Well, you know, we keep trying to gauge home much 535 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 3: our American pope actually knows about America. Maybe he hears 536 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 3: about America from certain people. I don't think he spends 537 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 3: a lot of time, probably reading American newspapers, and God 538 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,959 Speaker 3: knows what the American newspapers are like these days, especially 539 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 3: the Chicago Tribute, if he's reading that, which is very, 540 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 3: very far left publication. But you know, I would point 541 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 3: out this since we try to talk like Catholics when 542 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 3: we deal with these issues. We have in the church 543 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 3: something that is called just war theory, not just defense theory, 544 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 3: just war theory, and just war theory follows Saint Augustine. 545 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 3: Augustine was one of the primary developers of the idea 546 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 3: of just war theory from some classical sources. And the 547 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:43,720 Speaker 3: reason why we talk about just war is war is 548 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 3: not only about defense. It may also have an element 549 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 3: of imposing justice, just as the capital punishment is intended 550 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 3: to impose justice on situations where violence is taking place. 551 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 3: So let's say there's a genocide taking place in some 552 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 3: far off country. Well, we're not defending ourselves by going 553 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 3: there or trying to stop the carnage is going on 554 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 3: between two different sides. We are making war. I actually 555 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 3: said this in Italy, just some members of the Italian 556 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,720 Speaker 3: parliament once. I used the term in Italian making war, 557 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 3: and they said to me after, we. 558 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 5: Don't like that term making war. It sounds kind of nasty. 559 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 3: I said, yeah, but we are are Americans and we 560 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 3: are actually called on to do this sort of thing. 561 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 3: Italy is not going to be called on to do this. 562 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 3: Europe's not going to be called on to do this. 563 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 3: We very often are the ones who have to put 564 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,200 Speaker 3: our men and women and our treasure on the line 565 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 3: to try to seek justice. 566 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 5: In some terrible things that are happening in the world. 567 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:42,200 Speaker 3: So look, you can argue this either way, whether it's 568 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 3: a good idea to be the Department of War the 569 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 3: Department of defense. But our deeper Catholic tradition looks at 570 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 3: something other than defense. It looks at other things as well, 571 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 3: and in that perspective, I don't think the idea of 572 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 3: a Department of War is all that outside of our bounds. 573 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 1: Okay, I have some happy news amid all this confusion. 574 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 1: We all need a spiritual recharge, I know I do. 575 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 1: So I'm going on a cruise to the Grecian Isles 576 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 1: in the footsteps of the apostles Saint Paul and Saint John. 577 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: We're going to Philippi, Thessalonia, Athens, corinth Crete, Patmos, and Ephesus, 578 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: where I've never been, to visit the Blessed Virgin's House. 579 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 1: Monseignor Christopher Nolty will be joining me for daily mass 580 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 1: and reflections. And space is very limited, but this eleven 581 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: day cruise, say in September of twenty twenty six, is 582 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: going to be incredible. Go to Raymondarroyo dot com. You 583 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: can reserve a spot there. It's going to be one 584 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 1: of those life changing trips raymondroio dot com. I want 585 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 1: to move on to another controversy issue we have been 586 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 1: covering for months, if not years now, a holdover from 587 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 1: the Francis Pontificate, the traditional Latin Mass. This week in 588 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 1: the Diocese of Charlotte they are banning the traditional Latin 589 00:32:54,920 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 1: Mass in all parishes in the diocese save one small chapel. 590 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:04,959 Speaker 1: The Diocese of Brooklyn and Austin are also instituting similar bands. 591 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 1: So just for those keeping score politicians who opposed church 592 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 1: teaching publicly. That's a good thing. The Reverend Mass of 593 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,960 Speaker 1: the Ages, that's a bad thing. Bishop Michael Martin of 594 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 1: Charlotte issued a September twenty fifth letter and he reiterated 595 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,720 Speaker 1: his new restrictions. He writes, God has been at work 596 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,960 Speaker 1: in your lives through this particular celebration, the right of 597 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 1: the Mass, the Tridentine right, and it is hard to 598 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 1: imagine how the Holy Spirit could want otherwise. This chapel, 599 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 1: the only one that will celebrate the Mass, holds approximately 600 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 1: three hundred and fifty people and has recently been renovated 601 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 1: specifically for the celebration of the Tridentine Latin Mass. Please 602 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 1: understand that the chapel is not intended to accommodate everyone 603 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:55,360 Speaker 1: currently attending the tradition Tridentine Latin Mass in their respective parishes. 604 00:33:55,720 --> 00:34:00,280 Speaker 1: So Father, I guess the bishop he also recoons men's 605 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,719 Speaker 1: of the faithful attend the Tridentine Mass of the chapel 606 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,720 Speaker 1: later in the month, or even wait until November, because 607 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,400 Speaker 1: the chapel is so small. Your thoughts on the tone 608 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:09,080 Speaker 1: of this letter. 609 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 4: The tone of the letter is lamentable, to say the least, 610 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:20,000 Speaker 4: and it betrays the hostility that is being directed at 611 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 4: a group of people who don't deserve it. Now, when 612 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,400 Speaker 4: it came to Catholic politicians, Pope Leo says, we have 613 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 4: to consider the whole of their totality, of their activities 614 00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 4: and career over forty years, I've celebrated the Latin Mass, 615 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,440 Speaker 4: you've gone to it. I walk into that church, I 616 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 4: don't see a bunch of people causing problems in the 617 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:41,920 Speaker 4: life of the church. And they're not a bunch of 618 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,319 Speaker 4: people calling attention themselves either looking for honors. They said, 619 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,200 Speaker 4: we want to be left alone, and yet we're told 620 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,880 Speaker 4: because the Latin Mass causes disunity. I don't buy that premise, 621 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 4: but that's what we're told. It's the source of disunion 622 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 4: in towords. Therefore it has to go away. This betrays 623 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,799 Speaker 4: that this whole project, which began under Pope France, has 624 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 4: to be abandoned by Pope Leo if he wants to 625 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 4: be pastorally sensitive and I think serve the cause of justice. 626 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 4: There is no reason in the world why you would 627 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,960 Speaker 4: tell a group of people, I'm sorry, the church is 628 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,840 Speaker 4: too full and we're not giving you a bigger one. 629 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 4: This is a manipulation of people. It's wrong, it shouldn't happen. 630 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 4: And you know again, the bishop could easily Bishop Martin 631 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,440 Speaker 4: could easily go to Rome and ask Pope Leo or 632 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:33,400 Speaker 4: Cardinal Roach and say, look what am I supposed to 633 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:35,360 Speaker 4: do here? Am I supposed to throw people out of 634 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,200 Speaker 4: their parishes? Am I supposed to give them pastorals care? 635 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:40,719 Speaker 4: And it's up to the Pope and Cardinal Roach to 636 00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:42,759 Speaker 4: say we got to stop this. 637 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:46,440 Speaker 1: This is wrong. Yeah, well this is I guess human 638 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:49,560 Speaker 1: dignity ends for those for those who want to take 639 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,319 Speaker 1: part in the light and Mass. And Bob researchers at 640 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:56,240 Speaker 1: William Patterson University in Wayne, New Jersey. They just published 641 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,920 Speaker 1: a study in the Catholic Social Science Review, and it 642 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 1: shows that more traditional liturgical practices, like the traditional Latin 643 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 1: mass communion on the tongue, that that translates to greater 644 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 1: faith in the real presence contained in the Eucharist. Though 645 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 1: the study finds it only about fifty seven percent of 646 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 1: Catholic surveyed believe in the real presence of the eucharists, 647 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,840 Speaker 1: that number is significantly higher among those who expressed a 648 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,200 Speaker 1: preference for communion on the tongue. Or attending the Latin Mass. 649 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: So if the church is so concerned about attendance, in 650 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,680 Speaker 1: reaching the young and belief in the Eucharists, they spent 651 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,160 Speaker 1: millions on this, why are they suppressing this traditional form 652 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:33,720 Speaker 1: of the Mass. 653 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:36,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, I have to confess that I'm always a little 654 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:41,560 Speaker 3: skeptical of sociological service. I hope those numbers reflect the 655 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:46,920 Speaker 3: reality that you just described, Raymond, because look, good sociologists 656 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:47,960 Speaker 3: try to be careful. 657 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:49,960 Speaker 5: With their data, and I don't mean to impugne all 658 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,640 Speaker 5: of them, but just this sort of thing. 659 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,680 Speaker 3: Do we know whether the people who go there self 660 00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 3: select because they go there because they already believe in 661 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:00,600 Speaker 3: the real presence, say, or you. 662 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 5: Know, and vice versa. 663 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,799 Speaker 3: But in any event, there's clearly a correlation between these two, 664 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:08,560 Speaker 3: if not an actual causation. And we know that our 665 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,840 Speaker 3: bishops have been trying to raise the visibility of Eucharist. 666 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:17,480 Speaker 3: They've been having eucharistic processions, eucharistic conferences and whatnot. So 667 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:19,799 Speaker 3: if this is one of the to put it kind 668 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,440 Speaker 3: of in a pedestrian way, one of the tools in. 669 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,840 Speaker 5: The toolbox, why throw it away. It's useful. 670 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,240 Speaker 3: It doesn't as far as Father rightly says, it doesn't 671 00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:30,520 Speaker 3: seem to really cause any problems. If there had been, 672 00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 3: you know, a conflict between people in the Latin Mass 673 00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:37,560 Speaker 3: and others in North Carolina, well then you know, we 674 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,759 Speaker 3: understand that a bishop need to take steps, and you know, 675 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:45,439 Speaker 3: this apology it just doesn't seem it just doesn't sound right. 676 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,480 Speaker 3: I mean, if you really didn't want to harm the 677 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:52,120 Speaker 3: liturgical practices of a people, you wouldn't you wouldn't tell 678 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:54,640 Speaker 3: them that what they've been doing has been great, but sorry, 679 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 3: you're not allowed to do it anymore. So you know, 680 00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,480 Speaker 3: what's the motivation behind this? We know that the Bishop 681 00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:04,200 Speaker 3: Martin tried also some very he proposed at least some 682 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,640 Speaker 3: radical steps like you know, not kneeling the received communiyon 683 00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:11,920 Speaker 3: not receiving communion under tongue, removing everything on the altar 684 00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:16,800 Speaker 3: so that there would be an unobstructed view of the priest. 685 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:21,000 Speaker 3: I mean, his intentions are really even more radical than this, 686 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:22,920 Speaker 3: which is already quite radical itself. 687 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:24,400 Speaker 5: So what's the motivation? 688 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,239 Speaker 3: I don't know, but it just doesn't strike me as 689 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,240 Speaker 3: something that a Catholic bishop at this point in twenty 690 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,920 Speaker 3: twenty five in the United States of America should be doing. 691 00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to move to something else that happened 692 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:36,920 Speaker 1: to the Vatican. Father, You're going to love this. One 693 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:41,680 Speaker 1: thousand religious leaders, climate experts, and political leaders or at 694 00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:46,760 Speaker 1: this meeting at Costal Gondolfo, and it's called Raising Hope 695 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:51,920 Speaker 1: for Climate Justice. And also attending was that climate expert 696 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:56,080 Speaker 1: and Catholic former governor of California, Arnold Schwarzenegger, who he 697 00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 1: prays on the Vatican for its commitment to be the 698 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,800 Speaker 1: first carbon neutral state in the world. He called the 699 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:06,400 Speaker 1: Vatican a powerhouse for environmental activism and then said. 700 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:10,680 Speaker 6: This, every single one of this one point four billion 701 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:16,520 Speaker 6: Catholics can be a crusader for the environment and can 702 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:18,280 Speaker 6: help us termin it pollution. 703 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,560 Speaker 1: Father, is this your new mission to be a crusader 704 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:24,920 Speaker 1: for the environment? What about crusading for the faith? Can 705 00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:27,840 Speaker 1: we start there before we move on to the environment. 706 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:32,080 Speaker 4: Well, you know, I have no control over the environment, 707 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:36,799 Speaker 4: so to speak. And I mean this, let's just put it. 708 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:41,600 Speaker 4: You know, quite clearly, this fixation on what is essentially 709 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:47,640 Speaker 4: a liberal policy to try to control world economics is 710 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:51,560 Speaker 4: the climate change thing going on, and you know it's 711 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:55,239 Speaker 4: scientifically debated. So I'll leave it that and hand the scientists, 712 00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,719 Speaker 4: the economists can tell you, fine, you want to eliminate 713 00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:02,680 Speaker 4: a carbon product, you're going to impoverish the world. So 714 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:07,520 Speaker 4: this is not what we want. So yeah, what are 715 00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:09,640 Speaker 4: we Let's just step back a little bit. What the 716 00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 4: heck are we doing. We're getting Schwarzenegger at a conference 717 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,560 Speaker 4: to tell us what the priests and people of the 718 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,960 Speaker 4: Catholters need to be doing. I would much rather that 719 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,960 Speaker 4: we get a bishop to give a sermon, to encourage 720 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:26,200 Speaker 4: people to go back to confession, to baptize their children, 721 00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:30,480 Speaker 4: to receive confirmation, to do acts of charity to actual 722 00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:34,160 Speaker 4: poor people, you know, to do the loving kindness thing 723 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:35,280 Speaker 4: with the elderly. 724 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:36,080 Speaker 1: You know. 725 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:37,920 Speaker 4: I remember a few years ago when they had the 726 00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 4: big heat wave in France and many older people died 727 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,520 Speaker 4: because their children couldn't be bothered to go to the 728 00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,799 Speaker 4: apartment to help them because they were on vacation. I mean, 729 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,640 Speaker 4: that didn't just happen to France, happened else. But that's 730 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,839 Speaker 4: an examination of conscience thing that should be preached about, 731 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:58,800 Speaker 4: which is charity to unknown strangers in the third world 732 00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:02,040 Speaker 4: is meaningless. You have to love your family, you have 733 00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:04,640 Speaker 4: to love those close to you and deal with any 734 00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:08,120 Speaker 4: situation that comes forward. By the way, where in the 735 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,800 Speaker 4: world is the outrage now coming out of the Vatican 736 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,840 Speaker 4: about the Russian six hundred drones a day attack on 737 00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,600 Speaker 4: Ukrainian civilians. We never really hear about it. All we 738 00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:21,640 Speaker 4: hear about is we got to get to the negotiating table. 739 00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:25,560 Speaker 4: How about we get to the evangelical rebuking, the sinner phase, 740 00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:30,399 Speaker 4: where we tell Russia stop murdering Ukrainians. Is I would 741 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,719 Speaker 4: be much happy if the Holy See's political approach were 742 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:39,720 Speaker 4: directed toward identifying and supporting the legitimate rights of Ukraine 743 00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:41,239 Speaker 4: not to be attacked by Russia. 744 00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:45,240 Speaker 1: Well again, Father and Bob, I get so many notes 745 00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:47,759 Speaker 1: from people, you know. Look, I have evangelical friends, I 746 00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:49,840 Speaker 1: have Jewish friends. I have people who have no faith 747 00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:53,520 Speaker 1: at all, but they're interested in what the Catholic Church 748 00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:56,200 Speaker 1: is saying. And they're certainly because of the media attention 749 00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:58,799 Speaker 1: fixated on the Pope. And I got a ton of 750 00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:02,200 Speaker 1: questions about this. Just look at the visuals of this. Okay, 751 00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:06,040 Speaker 1: this is that environmental conference of the papal summer residence. Okay, 752 00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:10,279 Speaker 1: And Pope Leo blessed an Iceberg. They actually had a 753 00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:14,080 Speaker 1: piece of ice that he came forward and blessed and 754 00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:15,960 Speaker 1: then they had a song. I'm gonna play this for you. 755 00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:19,760 Speaker 1: This is Loudacto C, which is a reference to Pope 756 00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:25,680 Speaker 1: Francis's environmental encyclical, complete with Schwarzenegger making waves. You can 757 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:43,480 Speaker 1: see what I mean now, Dot to see missing you Quantuo, Bob. 758 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:48,239 Speaker 1: Your reaction to this and what does it tell us 759 00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:51,160 Speaker 1: in this moment? And does this lend credence to the 760 00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,760 Speaker 1: visual sense that people have that this just isn't serious. 761 00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:59,719 Speaker 3: Well, it's interesting that Determinator is trying to terminate all 762 00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:03,200 Speaker 3: these environmental problems. You know, Pope Leo has I think 763 00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:05,840 Speaker 3: rightly said that it is not his task to solve 764 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,160 Speaker 3: all the world's problems, and I hope he would come 765 00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:12,160 Speaker 3: to understand that even in a more in a deeper 766 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,239 Speaker 3: and deeper way, and this, you know, this kind of 767 00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:20,359 Speaker 3: greta Toneberg level symbolism. In point of fact, I wrote 768 00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:22,239 Speaker 3: a book a couple of years ago, twenty years ago 769 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:26,920 Speaker 3: about religion and environmentalism, and it's actually the case that 770 00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:30,040 Speaker 3: in a city like Paris, more people die out from 771 00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:33,560 Speaker 3: cold than they do from heat, even during these these 772 00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,240 Speaker 3: heat waves. There's rightly points out that there also should 773 00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:38,399 Speaker 3: be people trying to help. But both the people who 774 00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:40,359 Speaker 3: were out in the cold and the people were out 775 00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:43,319 Speaker 3: in heat. So there's a debate about all of that. 776 00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:46,479 Speaker 3: But this idea of kind of blessing a piece of ice. 777 00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,759 Speaker 3: I hope that that was something that was sprung on Leo, 778 00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:52,840 Speaker 3: because if I'd known about that in advance, if I 779 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:54,840 Speaker 3: were him, I would have said, Look, we're not going 780 00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:59,000 Speaker 3: to engage and engage in this kitty environmentalism. We're going 781 00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:01,760 Speaker 3: to be If we're going to be serious about environmentalism, 782 00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:05,000 Speaker 3: we're going to be serious about it with serious things, 783 00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:09,239 Speaker 3: rather than these these sort of stunts that seem to 784 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:12,480 Speaker 3: crop up in a variety of different circumstances in the 785 00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:16,640 Speaker 3: Vatican these days, these these drone images that are over 786 00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:20,080 Speaker 3: on Peter's and you know, some sort of crazy concerts 787 00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:23,600 Speaker 3: that are being held in Saint Peter's Square. There's something 788 00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,799 Speaker 3: that's that's broken loose inside the Vatican that I think 789 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:28,480 Speaker 3: if I were Leo, I would pay some attention to, 790 00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,799 Speaker 3: because it's a very undisciplined way that a lot of 791 00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:33,799 Speaker 3: people are trying to send out messages. 792 00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:36,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, and Father, this is very u n I've seen 793 00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:39,960 Speaker 1: these kinds of you know, pseudo blessing, you know, ritual 794 00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:44,279 Speaker 1: practices with you know, audience participation, waving the waves and 795 00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:46,399 Speaker 1: all that stuff. You see this at the UN a lot, 796 00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:48,160 Speaker 1: Well you were, you were across the street from the 797 00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:50,960 Speaker 1: un for years. You're more familiar with this than I am. 798 00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:52,799 Speaker 1: But what did you think when you saw this? 799 00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:59,080 Speaker 4: Well, this is a theatrical and sort of self congratulatory 800 00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:01,640 Speaker 4: in the world of environmentalism, because they bought up a 801 00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:04,399 Speaker 4: new way to get attention for themselves, putting a big 802 00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:06,359 Speaker 4: chunk of ice in front of the Pope and having 803 00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:09,759 Speaker 4: him blessed that. But I would say, okay, environmentalists, you're 804 00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:14,200 Speaker 4: you're interest having the Pope bless uh the iceberg. Are 805 00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:16,480 Speaker 4: you willing to listen to the Pope when he says 806 00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,040 Speaker 4: you have to stop killing unborn children? You know? Are 807 00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:24,080 Speaker 4: you willing to cooperate with ending the pseudo marriage that 808 00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:27,400 Speaker 4: gay people are engaging in, you know, in civil society? 809 00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:30,319 Speaker 4: How about the trans fraud? Are you willing to say 810 00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:34,320 Speaker 4: we got to stop mutilating children? Of course, the environmentalists 811 00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:36,680 Speaker 4: by and large are not going to agree with us 812 00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:38,560 Speaker 4: on that. So the question is, well, what are we 813 00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:41,800 Speaker 4: doing here? Anyway, then the Catholic Church is fully capable 814 00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:47,320 Speaker 4: of preaching its environmental teaching without any reference to secular organizations. 815 00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:50,719 Speaker 4: Why are we getting in this bandwagon becoming an accessory? 816 00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:54,400 Speaker 4: As you know the Greta Thunberg moment. And you know, 817 00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:57,359 Speaker 4: poor Greta, she started out as a high school kid 818 00:45:57,400 --> 00:45:59,960 Speaker 4: who was put forward, and now she's become an antieist 819 00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,799 Speaker 4: Israeli activist. I mean, what is this. We don't want 820 00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:05,560 Speaker 4: to This is not our world to be as the Vatican. 821 00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, when I first saw that Iceberg, I thought maybe 822 00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:10,800 Speaker 1: it was a Titanic re release or something. I didn't know 823 00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:14,160 Speaker 1: what they were doing. But the interesting thing here, as 824 00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:18,240 Speaker 1: you spoke, it reminded me Arnold Schwarzenegger thanked the Pope 825 00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:21,600 Speaker 1: for putting solar panels on the roof of the buildings. Well, 826 00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,479 Speaker 1: it was Pope Benedict that did that. Actually, I'm Paul 827 00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:28,600 Speaker 1: the sixth Paul. But his play there was to make 828 00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:32,000 Speaker 1: a nature argument and a natural argument that he saw 829 00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:35,280 Speaker 1: moving in the culture, to reach all of those Granola 830 00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:39,200 Speaker 1: people who might be interested and open to the Church's 831 00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:44,440 Speaker 1: vision of creation and worshiping God who created all. That 832 00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:47,319 Speaker 1: was the play there, and it seems we've dropped that 833 00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:50,560 Speaker 1: evangelical edge and it's all become climate activism that you 834 00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:52,720 Speaker 1: could find at the un any day of the week. 835 00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:54,640 Speaker 1: I'll give you the last word, Bob. 836 00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:57,600 Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, even the language. I know. 837 00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:00,759 Speaker 3: I'm a little hypersensitive to this because following this right, 838 00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:04,760 Speaker 3: even to talk about defending our common. 839 00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:07,080 Speaker 5: Home Earth is not our home. 840 00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:10,560 Speaker 3: I mean, we understand that we want to protect our environment, 841 00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:14,120 Speaker 3: we want to reconnect with God's creation, all that, insofar 842 00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:17,359 Speaker 3: as it's it's it's wrapped up in what the church 843 00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:20,840 Speaker 3: is doing, is fine. But it's always been the teaching 844 00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:23,640 Speaker 3: of the Church that we should not get to start 845 00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:26,359 Speaker 3: to feel too much at home on Earth because we're 846 00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:29,440 Speaker 3: not here forever. That ultimately what the Church wants to 847 00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:32,440 Speaker 3: teach us about is our eternal destiny. Doesn't mean that 848 00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:35,960 Speaker 3: we neglect, you know, either the environment or one another, 849 00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:38,680 Speaker 3: or the poor or whatever it may be. But we've 850 00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:40,560 Speaker 3: got to get this in the right perspective. If we 851 00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:44,400 Speaker 3: if we're we're clear that ultimately what we're concerned with 852 00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:46,479 Speaker 3: is a relationship with God and our. 853 00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:49,040 Speaker 5: Eternal destiny, and some other things will. 854 00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:51,520 Speaker 3: Take their proper places, but if we put those first, 855 00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:56,399 Speaker 3: then we're just repeating a kind of a worldliness that 856 00:47:56,520 --> 00:48:00,000 Speaker 3: it isn't as obvious as it is in other sects, 857 00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:02,280 Speaker 3: but it's a worldliness all the same. 858 00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:06,000 Speaker 1: Well, there are reports that the Pope has a new 859 00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:09,319 Speaker 1: encyclical coming out or an apostolic letter. We don't quite 860 00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:12,000 Speaker 1: know yet. We'll keep our eyes on that. But next 861 00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:14,120 Speaker 1: time we meet, guys, I'm going to carve out a 862 00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:17,680 Speaker 1: portion that's all positive, where we just talk about the 863 00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:22,080 Speaker 1: mission of the church. Questions people have, We're going to 864 00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:24,200 Speaker 1: get into those things. In fact, I'll encourage people, if 865 00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:27,719 Speaker 1: you're watching listening, send questions to the community pages on 866 00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:31,000 Speaker 1: both places and we'll get to some of those questions. Gents, 867 00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:33,480 Speaker 1: Grateful to you all as always, and if you want 868 00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:37,400 Speaker 1: more of the Arroyo Grande Prayerful Posse, subscribe at the 869 00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:41,360 Speaker 1: Arroyo Grande Show on YouTube or a Royal Grande podcast 870 00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:43,919 Speaker 1: wherever you get yours a maf of Robert Royal, Father 871 00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,280 Speaker 1: Gerald Murray. Until the Posse rides the game, stay the course, 872 00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:51,280 Speaker 1: follow the light. I'm Raymond Arroyo. We'll see you next time. Bye, guys. 873 00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:56,799 Speaker 1: Arroyo Grande is produced in partnership with DP Studios. And 874 00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:00,439 Speaker 1: iHeart Podcasts, and it's available on the iHeart rate, your Apple, 875 00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:01,960 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.