WEBVTT - Susi Massey: Escaping a “Cult” 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:03.640 I'm so excited to share that we're teaming up with 0:00:03.760 --> 0:00:08.720 Social Goods to launch our new she Pivots merch. You 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:12.560 probably remember their nineteen seventy three shirts from when Amy 0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:17.400 Schumer wore it on SNL and everywhere else. This is 0:00:17.440 --> 0:00:20.599 a perfect partnership because we are so aligned. Look, I 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:23.800 come from politics, they come from politics, and now we're 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:26.000 both in a place that we're trying to change culture 0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:29.680 through conversation. They're doing it through their merch. I'm doing 0:00:29.760 --> 0:00:33.519 it through this podcast. Our She Works Hard for the 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:36.800 Pivot merch is inspired by the iconic Donna summer hit 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:40.120 She Works Hard for the Money, and it honors all 0:00:40.159 --> 0:00:43.720 the ways women overcome life's challenges and to find their 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:47.680 own success. For every item sold, a donation is made 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:51.680 to Bottomless Closet, a nonprofit that helps disadvantage New York 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:55.680 City women enter the workforce and achieve success. Shop the 0:00:55.680 --> 0:00:59.360 collection now at Social dash Gooods dot com. 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:01.640 She Pivots. 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:12.040 Welcome back to she Pivots, the podcast where we talk 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:14.600 with women who have dared to pivot out of one 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:18.920 career and into something new and explore how their personal 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:24.000 lives impacted these decisions. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman, 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:30.960 today's guest. You might not have heard of, but I 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:34.080 promise her story will leave you with the renewed sense 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:39.480 of hope and inspiration. Susie Massey is sharing her story 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:43.000 with us for the first time ever as a roofing 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:47.400 professional and instructor. Her journey into the trades industry is 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:52.160 full of pivots. She grew up in the fundamentalist church, 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:57.560 the Institute on Basic Life Principles or IBLP, which is 0:01:57.600 --> 0:02:01.680 widely thought of as a cult. You might know it 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:05.560 for its horrible headlines surrounding the leader's sexual assault scandal, 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:09.160 or from the show Nineteen Kids in Counting on TLC, 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:12.280 where the Dugger family has also made headlines for a 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:18.160 similarly horrible scandal. Her atypical upbringing has created challenges one 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:22.320 can only imagine. She went from not knowing how to 0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:27.160 read to excelling in a trades career beyond her wildest dreams. 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:34.160 I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I did. 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:38.919 Susannah Massey is my name. I go by Susie most 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:43.480 of the time. I am a training instructor for gaf's 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:46.800 care started with roofing academy for them, but I'm currently 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:50.800 in care and what we do is bring education in 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:55.120 roofing commercial roofing systems to contractors who USEJF products. 0:02:55.800 --> 0:03:00.000 So you didn't grow up with the most traditional upbringing. 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:03.280 Got by a long shot. So I was actually raised 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:06.320 in a very small rural area, small town rural area 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:09.320 in Ohio, the second oldest of twelve brothers and sisters. 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:14.000 And we were raised in a situation that is widely 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:16.800 known today to be a cult developed by a man 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:19.760 named Bill Gotthard. He goes way back to the nineteen 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:22.680 seventies nineteen eighties. If we didn't feel close to God, 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:25.880 if we didn't feel like our life was going in 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:30.280 a good direction, that it was our fault. It was 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:33.480 really just being off in the country in one little 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:38.480 family kind of farm situation and no interaction as far 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:42.040 as state school requirements. Paperwork would be filed that we 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:44.880 were homeschooled. And course this was back before homeschooling was 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:48.520 very common. One of the key teachings of the cult 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:51.680 was that women should not be educated really or have jobs, 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:54.920 or pursue any kind of a career outside of tending 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:56.320 home and children. 0:03:56.440 --> 0:03:59.960 This is aspect of control, like the men had the control. 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:04.080 And as a girl, there were some families that like, 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:06.200 you were not allowed to leave your father's authority until 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:08.120 you had your husband's authority over tolf of you. So 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:09.680 I mean I had friends who were stuck in their 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:12.160 home in their late twenties because they couldn't get out, 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:13.000 They didn't get married. 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:15.760 How did your parents end up at the cult? 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:18.520 Like a lot of people did. It was good intentions 0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:21.600 in the beginning. They felt called to serve in their 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:26.080 faith and was just one of those situations where isolation 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:29.760 breeds just bad things and I think that a lot 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:31.880 of good people get sucked into those kind of movements. 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:36.159 But it was very legalistic, very harsh, very strict, and 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:39.919 pretty much the entire focus of the cult was to 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:44.440 keep women, specifically in a situation that I would say 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:48.680 is almost just servitude, no opportunity for women in the 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:51.920 faith at all. So that was my upbringing. I never 0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:54.920 went to school. Both my parents were raised in pretty 0:04:55.400 --> 0:05:00.120 typical situations, I would say, small town situations. They both 0:05:00.360 --> 0:05:03.240 went to school and everything. They did not go to college. 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:07.479 They went to a religious type seminary institution, and that's 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:11.120 kind of where they fell into the more culty kind 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:15.000 of situation, but I think that was the genesis of it. 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:17.560 The beginning of it was kind of a fundamentalist, far 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:21.880 right system. It got really, really crazy. It is hard 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:24.240 for us to understand at this point in time, where 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:27.159 there's a camera everywhere, there's a phone everywhere. We didn't 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:30.359 have radio, we didn't have any kind of television, we 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:33.960 didn't have any access at all to the outside world. 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:37.800 From the time when she was a child, she had 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:43.039 virtually no contact with the outside world. Even to this day, 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:46.560 Susie's friends tease her that sometimes she seems like she 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:51.760 is quote from another planet. The teachings of IBLP are 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:55.799 steeped in a repressive sexist viewpoints that kept women away 0:05:55.800 --> 0:06:00.120 from education, access to information, or freedom. 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:06.200 The whole thing would implode if it wasn't for the 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:10.279 teaching of women not being allowed to do anything. Most 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:14.760 of what the group taught was centered around keeping women uneducated. 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:17.040 And we say like the barefoot and pregnant thing, but 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:20.680 that was basically what they believed and what they taught, 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:23.800 and they tied it very closely to faith, so that 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:29.080 this was God's will for all women. My mother was 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:33.559 pregnant and had very small children. All of my life, 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:36.560 she struggled with a lot. My mom was very ill 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:39.440 a lot of the time. The teachings of this cult 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:42.640 were so horrific that she was not able to have 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:46.720 even medical attention. So the home births that were unsupported 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:50.520 and no support for her throughout the pregnancies took a 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:54.000 terrible toll on her. I was so curious from the 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:57.840 time that I was young, and I don't think I 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:01.880 ever really I was never really sold on this whole thing, 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:04.919 because I was beginning to see the breakdowns, you know, 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:08.960 especially in medical and healthcare, and kids had serious medical 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:12.480 situations that needed care, and my mom suffering the way 0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:15.280 that she did, and there was not the medical support 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:17.120 or mental or emotional support for her. 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:23.920 So my parents didn't believe in doctors or medication or shots. 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:24.280 Or anything like that. 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:28.280 And my mom was extremely ill mentally and every other way. 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:31.960 My youngest brother was born at home and I was 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:35.000 the only person there. I was about sixteen, and he 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:40.920 nearly died, And even though he nearly died, my parents 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:44.960 still forbade us from reaching out for help. 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:50.600 Later on, my mom began to come out of that 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:53.920 situation a lot in her mind after the youngest of 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:58.120 my siblings was born, my mom began to finally have 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:01.760 a chance at being healthy and was able to leave 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:04.960 that system to an extent, and so she was a 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:07.120 lot better In the end. We'd lost my mom in 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:11.480 twenty sixteen to cancer, but I'm happy to say that 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:14.360 there was some restoration of the relationship with her before 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:18.480 that happened, so I'm thankful for that. So my older 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:21.280 sister and I cared for the children. So I had 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:24.200 babies and infants in my care from the time I 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:27.400 was about ten years old on. So it was pretty 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:31.960 much just the care of infants and toddlers that was 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:33.600 my life. 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:37.559 The church forced demanding and unrealistic expectations on the women 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:42.040 and girls, from taking care of the kids, to dressing conservatively, 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:46.960 to a lack of education, to stricter punishments. The girls 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:49.239 were much more oppressed than the boys. 0:08:50.200 --> 0:08:53.600 There was just not the focus on the boys on 0:08:53.679 --> 0:08:57.160 how they dressed every minute of their day, being committed 0:08:57.200 --> 0:09:01.080 to care of the home and the kids. Just they 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:02.360 were kind of the wild boys. 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:02.600 Man. 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:05.080 They got to go and they would fish, they would 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:08.760 kind of go around. But for the women, for the girls, 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:12.640 we were not to even go outside of the house 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:15.400 if the boys had a friend over or something like that, 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:17.560 or as they got older, they had a couple of 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:20.640 neighbor kids that would come around. But the world was 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:24.480 watched more off limits for girls and women in that system. 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:29.920 I remember working as a teenager and hearing a song 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:33.040 on the radio that was a country song, and when 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:35.920 I got home, I sat down and played it on 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:38.679 a piano that was there in the house, and I 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:42.000 got in trouble because it wasn't a hymn or a 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:46.440 church song, and really not on men or boys at all. 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:49.199 It was all the women and girls. 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:52.959 You'll notice that despite the strict and suppressive teachings of 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:56.520 the cult, Susie was still forced to work outside the 0:09:56.559 --> 0:09:59.520 home as well as take care of the kids. 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:05.839 It's just ironic. It is hypocrisy upon hypocrisy. So women 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:08.600 aren't allowed to really be educated or work, or if 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:12.280 they do, they're certainly not fulfilling God's wishes for them. 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:17.120 But it's built on such poverty that women have to work. 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:20.880 It's a catch twenty two. There's no winning in that system, 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:24.880 not for anyone. But we all began to work very 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:29.239 young and then support and help support our younger siblings. 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:32.600 A lot of us had younger siblings live with us, 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:36.720 and we're supporting them as we were mid to late 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:40.079 teens ourselves, So it was really children raising children all 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:40.760 the way through. 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:46.800 She felt a deep responsibility toward raising her siblings, especially 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:50.360 considering the conditions. Because her father did not have a 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:53.560 traditional job and her mother was forced to stay home 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:56.800 to take care of their twelve children, it was difficult 0:10:56.880 --> 0:11:00.720 to keep food on the table or provide the basicness necessities. 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:06.000 So my siblings and I, especially the older ones, we 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:08.320 can remember being hungry. You know. There was times we 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:12.480 didn't have enough of anything. And again it's hard to 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:17.080 get your mind around. Now they're safeguards in place, but 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:21.720 when you're so off grid, nobody knows. So there's not 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:26.360 a doctor or a school nurse or anybody that's going 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:27.120 to flag that. 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:30.160 Being so off the grid. 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:33.360 Some of her siblings did not even have documentation that 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:36.520 they were born. That meant the government didn't even know 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:37.760 some of them existed. 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:43.320 As time went on and we my parents became more 0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:47.280 isolated and the system became more pathological, No home birth 0:11:47.320 --> 0:11:51.000 would be a part of that, and no social securities 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:55.040 or anything like that so the situation began to improve 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:58.040 as I got quite a bit older, and the older 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:00.640 siblings of us began to work out side the home 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:05.839 and help support our younger siblings. But the poverty, I've 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:07.880 had to do a lot of just self work around 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:12.520 that scarcity mentality and learning to function where you're not 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:14.280 afraid all the time of that kind of thing. 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:17.600 So how did you get out or learn to read? 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:20.720 There was paperwork fo that we were being homeschooled. That 0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:25.120 was not the case, so education was definitely very low 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:29.600 on the list of priorities. I couldn't understand hardly anything, 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:32.920 and I've since found out that I'm dyslexic as well, 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:37.200 but I was really struggling to understand something. One time 0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:40.680 at a little grocery store. The clerk told me, she 0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:43.160 said she could tell that I was having a hard 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:45.000 time reading, and I was at the age where I 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:47.440 should have been reading. Yeah about how old were you? 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:51.520 About fourteen fifteen? And she said, you know, you can 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:55.720 get hooked on phonics at a library. So I didn't 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:57.800 know what that was, but she helped me write it 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:00.319 down on the receipt and was able to get a 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:02.520 hold of the hooked on phonics that she had told 0:13:02.559 --> 0:13:05.839 me about, and began to really learn to read. And 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:09.200 that was the point where the world began to open 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:12.840 up to me. So I was learning to read better. 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:16.079 And even when I could read, there were so many 0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:17.960 things that are just out there in the world that 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:22.120 I didn't understand. Road signs, common things in any job. 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:26.040 They were just completely foreign, foreign to me. So I 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:28.959 could read a little bit, but it was really that 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:33.319 catalyst of learning to read well that began to change 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:38.400 my world. In that belief system, you're risking your salvation 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:42.920 if you buck that system. And it's absurd now because 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:45.280 I'm a student of all faiths and all religions, and 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:48.480 I have friends that are dear to me across all beliefs. 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:53.160 But at the time you believe it, So it's a 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:56.360 very insidious I guess it's the best word because it 0:13:56.480 --> 0:13:58.880 puts the punishment inside of your mind. 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:04.200 But Susie fought that mental battle slowly, convinced more and 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:07.000 more every day that this wasn't the way for her 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:08.720 or her siblings to be living. 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:12.560 I was always curious and a little bit of a rebel, 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:15.840 and I just didn't sit with me. I believe that 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:17.960 if there was a God that made me. Then he 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:20.880 had a great, big world out there and he would 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:24.760 want me to know about it. I think for myself, 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:27.920 I was such a questioner and I was the person 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:31.480 I was so curious about what was out there, and 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:35.280 I wanted to read well more than anything. I wanted 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:40.040 that education piece. And I didn't know it at the time, 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:42.440 but that would be the thing that opened all the 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:48.120 doors for me. For me, the breaking point was when 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:49.840 I left that completely. 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:54.960 The mindset was when my little brother nearly died, like, 0:14:55.040 --> 0:14:57.880 this is not something I'm willing to participate in anymore. 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:00.960 But leaving as far as as the rest of the 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:04.040 family getting out of it, it was gradual. It kind 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:11.200 of imploded gradually, and again the lifesaver was education. Was 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:14.800 the younger kids finally getting to go to school. That's 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:16.720 what changed everything. 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:22.080 And we could all see how awful the situation was. 0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:25.360 And then having to really stand up and say, no, 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:27.600 they want to go to school, We're going to let 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:31.200 them go. That was the point where I think my 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:34.480 mind and my spirit began to kind of earnmore from 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:36.680 that and believe that there was some hope out there 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:39.760 for me too, not just them. In my mid to 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:43.520 late teens, I began to say, this is about enough. 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:46.920 I was able to go back into that and approach 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:49.960 my parents and just I told them we're done with 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:52.440 this now. And my younger siblings, I wanted them to 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:54.600 be able to go to school because they wanted to 0:15:54.640 --> 0:15:58.160 go to school. And one of my younger siblings had asked, 0:15:58.200 --> 0:15:59.840 would it be okay if I would go to school? 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:02.440 Of course the answer came back from on high no, 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:04.440 you're not going to go to school. And that for 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:07.480 me was just like, oh, no, we're done. That was 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:10.480 really for me when it all began, so balls came down. 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:13.359 Was that again the education piece. 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:17.760 That sounds like a huge, heavy conversation to have had 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:22.560 with your parents. Did you go into that conversation ready 0:16:22.600 --> 0:16:25.280 to have it or it just kind of came about. 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:27.920 No, I was going to war. At that point. I 0:16:28.080 --> 0:16:31.520 was done because I had seen how bad and how 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:36.160 unhealthy the situation was, and it was a bad, bad situation, 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:39.920 and I could see just the hopelessness in it that 0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:44.000 these younger siblings. When I saw that little spark, that 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:46.480 little piece of hope, like I want something else? Can 0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:48.440 I please go to school? I really want to go 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:52.520 and just that no, you're not going. So when I 0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:56.440 went to have that conversation, my older siblings went with me. 0:16:57.000 --> 0:17:01.080 They backed me up. They said, again, this is not working. 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:04.840 Whatever the faith or whatever the component is here, it's 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:08.000 a fail and it's created a lot of misery and heartache. 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:11.640 And these are kids that are asking, can I want 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:13.840 to go to school? So we're going to back them 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:16.520 and we're going to make sure that they have that opportunity. 0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:21.080 And so they left. They took with them what little 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:24.560 knowledge they had and found jobs and began to build 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:28.080 a new life. But it was far from easy. This 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:30.760 was just the beginning of a long road of healing 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:36.080 past traumas, navigating the outside world, and learning the new 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:38.080 and unlearning the old. 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:42.199 I was in my car some of the time. My 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:45.000 sister and I had a little apartment. My brothers rented 0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:49.320 a little place. My first job was at food service 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:55.880 ice cream, and I remember trying to understand. I had 0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:59.040 no idea what a credit card was, how it worked. 0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:02.760 I'd never seen one. I didn't understand learning to try 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:07.240 to handle money, make change. And then it took me 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:12.840 about a year to understand that credit cards and cash 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:17.280 money and like lottery cards are different things. 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:20.639 Do you remember what that felt like on your side 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:22.240 when you started to meet people. 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:25.400 I can only tell you that it's like walking out 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:27.760 of fog. When you grow up like that, it's a 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:32.320 process of walking out of that and learning unlearning, you know, 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:36.240 all this awful messaging, and then learning new things. I 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:40.840 still have those moments where I'm just the odd duck 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:47.320 out because it's a very strange upbringing and so much 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:51.120 of pop culture, so people would be referencing movies and 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:55.840 songs and groups, and I did not have any idea 0:18:56.040 --> 0:19:00.480 who or what the Beatles were. So it was challenging 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:05.080 to try to catch up with the people around and 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:09.399 really learn to navigate a world that I knew nothing about, 0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:13.639 less than nothing. I think it took a while for 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:16.480 me to begin to think I could have a life 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:19.440 an education. I had my first child when I was 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:25.240 nineteen and got married and began that kind of homemaker 0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:29.240 role again. So it was always a thing in the 0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:31.400 back of my mind. I would love to go to college. 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:33.560 I would love to be able to do these things, 0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:36.360 but they seemed off limits. They seemed out of reach 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:40.399 for me because I was so far behind the eight ball. 0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:45.000 But Susie was determined. She knew that knowledge, education, and 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:48.880 reading were essential, so she started night classes to get 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:52.200 her GED. And I want to note that a GED 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:56.000 does not start at an elementary level. That means that 0:19:56.040 --> 0:19:58.679 she had to learn the very basics, like what a 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:02.840 fraction is at the same time as completing algebra or 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:05.639 learning how to spell, at the same time as taking 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:07.280 poetry and writing a high coup. 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:10.359 But I really wanted to learn, and I was able 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:13.679 to get my GED. I think that is when it 0:20:13.800 --> 0:20:17.440 dawned on me that I could potentially not start over 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:18.159 but catch up. 0:20:20.160 --> 0:20:23.320 When you had your daughter and you got married, did 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:25.440 that feel like a way out for you? 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:27.120 Or did it? Oh? 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:27.560 It did? 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:32.399 Oh absolutely. It's a process. It's a long process to 0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:35.880 walk out. And I would say every one of those 0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:40.520 steps was a step out. And yeah, getting married young, 0:20:40.560 --> 0:20:43.760 I got married young, started my family young. Yeah, in 0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:46.840 a lot of ways, it was one more step out 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:50.520 of that situation. And it's hard when you have your 0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:54.320 own kids and the only thing I knew was what 0:20:54.400 --> 0:20:57.840 I had been raised with. So it's hard to start 0:20:57.920 --> 0:21:01.360 over and you don't realize how many of those beliefs 0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:04.840 are so deep. And my older sister had three at 0:21:04.880 --> 0:21:07.320 the same time that I did, so we were both 0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:09.960 kind of walking out of that childhood belief system and 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:12.800 trying to establish so, Okay, we're not doing it that way, 0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:14.600 how are we going to do it? And she had 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:17.639 three little ones right at the same time, so she 0:21:17.760 --> 0:21:19.479 and I walked through a lot of that together. 0:21:20.160 --> 0:21:23.520 Well, what were those conversations, like what did you decide 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:26.280 to keep, decide to toss? Like the way you were 0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:29.840 making new traditions. 0:21:28.280 --> 0:21:30.919 It was very touch and go. So, like the faith piece, 0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:34.640 I tried really hard to have more of a main 0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:37.760 stream I would say kind of faith at the time. 0:21:38.000 --> 0:21:39.879 It would still try to be involved in like churches, 0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:44.040 but not quite as far off or whatever that was fundamental, 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:47.200 I guess, but it just it took a while. Those 0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:49.800 were the conversations were more around faith and we don't 0:21:49.800 --> 0:21:52.120 believe this. Obviously, we're not going to raise our kids 0:21:52.119 --> 0:21:54.400 like this, so how are we going to do it? It 0:21:54.160 --> 0:21:58.000 was hard and it was scary. It was scary. As 0:21:58.080 --> 0:22:00.840 my kids got older, the married came to an end, 0:22:01.440 --> 0:22:05.240 and I was looking at a situation where I'm starting 0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:11.880 completely over, completely ground zero, nothing, starting completely over. In 0:22:11.960 --> 0:22:16.600 my late thirties early forties and having adult children and 0:22:17.200 --> 0:22:20.840 looking at being a single mom. I looked at myself 0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:24.680 and said, you can do this. You're capable of doing this. 0:22:25.480 --> 0:22:28.720 And that's when I became involved in roofing and the 0:22:28.720 --> 0:22:32.000 commercial roofing side. So a lot of my brothers are roofers, 0:22:32.000 --> 0:22:35.320 aren't involved in the roofing trade. So I began to 0:22:35.520 --> 0:22:38.480 just kind of as a matter of here's the next 0:22:38.480 --> 0:22:41.800 thing I can learn, began to learn the roofing side, 0:22:42.560 --> 0:22:45.720 and it really gave me a place to go from 0:22:46.000 --> 0:22:49.840 zero to one hundred without feeling like I had missed 0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:52.159 out on so much already it was too late for me, 0:22:52.440 --> 0:22:55.720 so I didn't need the college peace to learn at 0:22:55.720 --> 0:22:58.199 the time. I was able to build a life in 0:22:58.240 --> 0:23:02.040 the beginnings of a career learning the trade. 0:23:02.240 --> 0:23:04.159 Do you think there was a part of it that 0:23:04.240 --> 0:23:07.560 appealed to you because it is such a male dominated industry. 0:23:07.880 --> 0:23:09.000 If you're going to say, you know, if I'm going 0:23:09.040 --> 0:23:10.520 to go into anything, like, I'm. 0:23:10.480 --> 0:23:13.680 Already getting rid of that part that says I can't work, 0:23:13.720 --> 0:23:15.720 like if I'm diving in, I'm diving right in. 0:23:16.640 --> 0:23:19.879 Probably maybe on a subconscious level, but there was some 0:23:19.880 --> 0:23:23.640 pretty horrible things that I lived through, and pretty much 0:23:23.640 --> 0:23:26.680 you don't have any fear after that. So the male 0:23:26.720 --> 0:23:30.719 dominated industry, it didn't scare me because I had already 0:23:31.080 --> 0:23:33.880 lived through a lot by that time, and I had 0:23:33.920 --> 0:23:36.960