1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: I'm so excited to share that we're teaming up with 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 1: Social Goods to launch our new she Pivots merch. You 3 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:12,560 Speaker 1: probably remember their nineteen seventy three shirts from when Amy 4 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: Schumer wore it on SNL and everywhere else. This is 5 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 1: a perfect partnership because we are so aligned. Look, I 6 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 1: come from politics, they come from politics, and now we're 7 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: both in a place that we're trying to change culture 8 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: through conversation. They're doing it through their merch. I'm doing 9 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 1: it through this podcast. Our She Works Hard for the 10 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: Pivot merch is inspired by the iconic Donna summer hit 11 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 1: She Works Hard for the Money, and it honors all 12 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: the ways women overcome life's challenges and to find their 13 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 1: own success. For every item sold, a donation is made 14 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: to Bottomless Closet, a nonprofit that helps disadvantage New York 15 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 1: City women enter the workforce and achieve success. Shop the 16 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: collection now at Social dash Gooods dot com. 17 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 2: She Pivots. 18 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:12,040 Speaker 1: Welcome back to she Pivots, the podcast where we talk 19 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: with women who have dared to pivot out of one 20 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: career and into something new and explore how their personal 21 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: lives impacted these decisions. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman, 22 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:30,960 Speaker 1: today's guest. You might not have heard of, but I 23 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: promise her story will leave you with the renewed sense 24 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 1: of hope and inspiration. Susie Massey is sharing her story 25 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 1: with us for the first time ever as a roofing 26 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: professional and instructor. Her journey into the trades industry is 27 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: full of pivots. She grew up in the fundamentalist church, 28 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: the Institute on Basic Life Principles or IBLP, which is 29 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: widely thought of as a cult. You might know it 30 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: for its horrible headlines surrounding the leader's sexual assault scandal, 31 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: or from the show Nineteen Kids in Counting on TLC, 32 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: where the Dugger family has also made headlines for a 33 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: similarly horrible scandal. Her atypical upbringing has created challenges one 34 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: can only imagine. She went from not knowing how to 35 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: read to excelling in a trades career beyond her wildest dreams. 36 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I did. 37 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 3: Susannah Massey is my name. I go by Susie most 38 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 3: of the time. I am a training instructor for gaf's 39 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 3: care started with roofing academy for them, but I'm currently 40 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 3: in care and what we do is bring education in 41 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 3: roofing commercial roofing systems to contractors who USEJF products. 42 00:02:55,800 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 2: So you didn't grow up with the most traditional upbringing. 43 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 3: Got by a long shot. So I was actually raised 44 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 3: in a very small rural area, small town rural area 45 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 3: in Ohio, the second oldest of twelve brothers and sisters. 46 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 3: And we were raised in a situation that is widely 47 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:16,800 Speaker 3: known today to be a cult developed by a man 48 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 3: named Bill Gotthard. He goes way back to the nineteen 49 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 3: seventies nineteen eighties. If we didn't feel close to God, 50 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 3: if we didn't feel like our life was going in 51 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 3: a good direction, that it was our fault. It was 52 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 3: really just being off in the country in one little 53 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 3: family kind of farm situation and no interaction as far 54 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 3: as state school requirements. Paperwork would be filed that we 55 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 3: were homeschooled. And course this was back before homeschooling was 56 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 3: very common. One of the key teachings of the cult 57 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 3: was that women should not be educated really or have jobs, 58 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 3: or pursue any kind of a career outside of tending 59 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 3: home and children. 60 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 4: This is aspect of control, like the men had the control. 61 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 4: And as a girl, there were some families that like, 62 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 4: you were not allowed to leave your father's authority until 63 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 4: you had your husband's authority over tolf of you. So 64 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 4: I mean I had friends who were stuck in their 65 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 4: home in their late twenties because they couldn't get out, 66 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 4: They didn't get married. 67 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 2: How did your parents end up at the cult? 68 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 3: Like a lot of people did. It was good intentions 69 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,600 Speaker 3: in the beginning. They felt called to serve in their 70 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 3: faith and was just one of those situations where isolation 71 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 3: breeds just bad things and I think that a lot 72 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 3: of good people get sucked into those kind of movements. 73 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 3: But it was very legalistic, very harsh, very strict, and 74 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,919 Speaker 3: pretty much the entire focus of the cult was to 75 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 3: keep women, specifically in a situation that I would say 76 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 3: is almost just servitude, no opportunity for women in the 77 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 3: faith at all. So that was my upbringing. I never 78 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 3: went to school. Both my parents were raised in pretty 79 00:04:55,400 --> 00:05:00,120 Speaker 3: typical situations, I would say, small town situations. They both 80 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 3: went to school and everything. They did not go to college. 81 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 3: They went to a religious type seminary institution, and that's 82 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 3: kind of where they fell into the more culty kind 83 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 3: of situation, but I think that was the genesis of it. 84 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 3: The beginning of it was kind of a fundamentalist, far 85 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 3: right system. It got really, really crazy. It is hard 86 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 3: for us to understand at this point in time, where 87 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:27,159 Speaker 3: there's a camera everywhere, there's a phone everywhere. We didn't 88 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:30,359 Speaker 3: have radio, we didn't have any kind of television, we 89 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 3: didn't have any access at all to the outside world. 90 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 1: From the time when she was a child, she had 91 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:43,039 Speaker 1: virtually no contact with the outside world. Even to this day, 92 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: Susie's friends tease her that sometimes she seems like she 93 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: is quote from another planet. The teachings of IBLP are 94 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:55,799 Speaker 1: steeped in a repressive sexist viewpoints that kept women away 95 00:05:55,800 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 1: from education, access to information, or freedom. 96 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 3: The whole thing would implode if it wasn't for the 97 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 3: teaching of women not being allowed to do anything. Most 98 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 3: of what the group taught was centered around keeping women uneducated. 99 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:17,040 Speaker 3: And we say like the barefoot and pregnant thing, but 100 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 3: that was basically what they believed and what they taught, 101 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 3: and they tied it very closely to faith, so that 102 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 3: this was God's will for all women. My mother was 103 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:33,559 Speaker 3: pregnant and had very small children. All of my life, 104 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 3: she struggled with a lot. My mom was very ill 105 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 3: a lot of the time. The teachings of this cult 106 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 3: were so horrific that she was not able to have 107 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:46,720 Speaker 3: even medical attention. So the home births that were unsupported 108 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 3: and no support for her throughout the pregnancies took a 109 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 3: terrible toll on her. I was so curious from the 110 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,840 Speaker 3: time that I was young, and I don't think I 111 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 3: ever really I was never really sold on this whole thing, 112 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:04,919 Speaker 3: because I was beginning to see the breakdowns, you know, 113 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 3: especially in medical and healthcare, and kids had serious medical 114 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 3: situations that needed care, and my mom suffering the way 115 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 3: that she did, and there was not the medical support 116 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 3: or mental or emotional support for her. 117 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 5: So my parents didn't believe in doctors or medication or shots. 118 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 3: Or anything like that. 119 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 5: And my mom was extremely ill mentally and every other way. 120 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 5: My youngest brother was born at home and I was 121 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 5: the only person there. I was about sixteen, and he 122 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 5: nearly died, And even though he nearly died, my parents 123 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 5: still forbade us from reaching out for help. 124 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 3: Later on, my mom began to come out of that 125 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 3: situation a lot in her mind after the youngest of 126 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 3: my siblings was born, my mom began to finally have 127 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 3: a chance at being healthy and was able to leave 128 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 3: that system to an extent, and so she was a 129 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 3: lot better In the end. We'd lost my mom in 130 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 3: twenty sixteen to cancer, but I'm happy to say that 131 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 3: there was some restoration of the relationship with her before 132 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 3: that happened, so I'm thankful for that. So my older 133 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 3: sister and I cared for the children. So I had 134 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 3: babies and infants in my care from the time I 135 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 3: was about ten years old on. So it was pretty 136 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 3: much just the care of infants and toddlers that was 137 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 3: my life. 138 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:37,559 Speaker 1: The church forced demanding and unrealistic expectations on the women 139 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: and girls, from taking care of the kids, to dressing conservatively, 140 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 1: to a lack of education, to stricter punishments. The girls 141 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,239 Speaker 1: were much more oppressed than the boys. 142 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 3: There was just not the focus on the boys on 143 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 3: how they dressed every minute of their day, being committed 144 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 3: to care of the home and the kids. Just they 145 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 3: were kind of the wild boys. 146 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 5: Man. 147 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 3: They got to go and they would fish, they would 148 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 3: kind of go around. But for the women, for the girls, 149 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 3: we were not to even go outside of the house 150 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 3: if the boys had a friend over or something like that, 151 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 3: or as they got older, they had a couple of 152 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 3: neighbor kids that would come around. But the world was 153 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 3: watched more off limits for girls and women in that system. 154 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 3: I remember working as a teenager and hearing a song 155 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 3: on the radio that was a country song, and when 156 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 3: I got home, I sat down and played it on 157 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,679 Speaker 3: a piano that was there in the house, and I 158 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 3: got in trouble because it wasn't a hymn or a 159 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 3: church song, and really not on men or boys at all. 160 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:49,199 Speaker 3: It was all the women and girls. 161 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:52,959 Speaker 1: You'll notice that despite the strict and suppressive teachings of 162 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: the cult, Susie was still forced to work outside the 163 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: home as well as take care of the kids. 164 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:05,839 Speaker 3: It's just ironic. It is hypocrisy upon hypocrisy. So women 165 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 3: aren't allowed to really be educated or work, or if 166 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 3: they do, they're certainly not fulfilling God's wishes for them. 167 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 3: But it's built on such poverty that women have to work. 168 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 3: It's a catch twenty two. There's no winning in that system, 169 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 3: not for anyone. But we all began to work very 170 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:29,239 Speaker 3: young and then support and help support our younger siblings. 171 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 3: A lot of us had younger siblings live with us, 172 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 3: and we're supporting them as we were mid to late 173 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:40,079 Speaker 3: teens ourselves, So it was really children raising children all 174 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 3: the way through. 175 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: She felt a deep responsibility toward raising her siblings, especially 176 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: considering the conditions. Because her father did not have a 177 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 1: traditional job and her mother was forced to stay home 178 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: to take care of their twelve children, it was difficult 179 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 1: to keep food on the table or provide the basicness necessities. 180 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 3: So my siblings and I, especially the older ones, we 181 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 3: can remember being hungry. You know. There was times we 182 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 3: didn't have enough of anything. And again it's hard to 183 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 3: get your mind around. Now they're safeguards in place, but 184 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 3: when you're so off grid, nobody knows. So there's not 185 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 3: a doctor or a school nurse or anybody that's going 186 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 3: to flag that. 187 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 2: Being so off the grid. 188 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: Some of her siblings did not even have documentation that 189 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: they were born. That meant the government didn't even know 190 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 1: some of them existed. 191 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 3: As time went on and we my parents became more 192 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 3: isolated and the system became more pathological, No home birth 193 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 3: would be a part of that, and no social securities 194 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 3: or anything like that so the situation began to improve 195 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 3: as I got quite a bit older, and the older 196 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 3: siblings of us began to work out side the home 197 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:05,839 Speaker 3: and help support our younger siblings. But the poverty, I've 198 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 3: had to do a lot of just self work around 199 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 3: that scarcity mentality and learning to function where you're not 200 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 3: afraid all the time of that kind of thing. 201 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 2: So how did you get out or learn to read? 202 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 3: There was paperwork fo that we were being homeschooled. That 203 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 3: was not the case, so education was definitely very low 204 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 3: on the list of priorities. I couldn't understand hardly anything, 205 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 3: and I've since found out that I'm dyslexic as well, 206 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 3: but I was really struggling to understand something. One time 207 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 3: at a little grocery store. The clerk told me, she 208 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 3: said she could tell that I was having a hard 209 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 3: time reading, and I was at the age where I 210 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 3: should have been reading. Yeah about how old were you? 211 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 3: About fourteen fifteen? And she said, you know, you can 212 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 3: get hooked on phonics at a library. So I didn't 213 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 3: know what that was, but she helped me write it 214 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,319 Speaker 3: down on the receipt and was able to get a 215 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 3: hold of the hooked on phonics that she had told 216 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:05,839 Speaker 3: me about, and began to really learn to read. And 217 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 3: that was the point where the world began to open 218 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 3: up to me. So I was learning to read better. 219 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,079 Speaker 3: And even when I could read, there were so many 220 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:17,960 Speaker 3: things that are just out there in the world that 221 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 3: I didn't understand. Road signs, common things in any job. 222 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 3: They were just completely foreign, foreign to me. So I 223 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:28,959 Speaker 3: could read a little bit, but it was really that 224 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:33,319 Speaker 3: catalyst of learning to read well that began to change 225 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 3: my world. In that belief system, you're risking your salvation 226 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 3: if you buck that system. And it's absurd now because 227 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 3: I'm a student of all faiths and all religions, and 228 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 3: I have friends that are dear to me across all beliefs. 229 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 3: But at the time you believe it, So it's a 230 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 3: very insidious I guess it's the best word because it 231 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 3: puts the punishment inside of your mind. 232 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:04,200 Speaker 2: But Susie fought that mental battle slowly, convinced more and 233 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 2: more every day that this wasn't the way for her 234 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 2: or her siblings to be living. 235 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 3: I was always curious and a little bit of a rebel, 236 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 3: and I just didn't sit with me. I believe that 237 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 3: if there was a God that made me. Then he 238 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 3: had a great, big world out there and he would 239 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 3: want me to know about it. I think for myself, 240 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 3: I was such a questioner and I was the person 241 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 3: I was so curious about what was out there, and 242 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 3: I wanted to read well more than anything. I wanted 243 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 3: that education piece. And I didn't know it at the time, 244 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 3: but that would be the thing that opened all the 245 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 3: doors for me. For me, the breaking point was when 246 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 3: I left that completely. 247 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 5: The mindset was when my little brother nearly died, like, 248 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 5: this is not something I'm willing to participate in anymore. 249 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 5: But leaving as far as as the rest of the 250 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 5: family getting out of it, it was gradual. It kind 251 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 5: of imploded gradually, and again the lifesaver was education. Was 252 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 5: the younger kids finally getting to go to school. That's 253 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 5: what changed everything. 254 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 3: And we could all see how awful the situation was. 255 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 3: And then having to really stand up and say, no, 256 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 3: they want to go to school, We're going to let 257 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 3: them go. That was the point where I think my 258 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 3: mind and my spirit began to kind of earnmore from 259 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 3: that and believe that there was some hope out there 260 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 3: for me too, not just them. In my mid to 261 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 3: late teens, I began to say, this is about enough. 262 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 3: I was able to go back into that and approach 263 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 3: my parents and just I told them we're done with 264 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 3: this now. And my younger siblings, I wanted them to 265 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 3: be able to go to school because they wanted to 266 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 3: go to school. And one of my younger siblings had asked, 267 00:15:58,200 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 3: would it be okay if I would go to school? 268 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 3: Of course the answer came back from on high no, 269 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 3: you're not going to go to school. And that for 270 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 3: me was just like, oh, no, we're done. That was 271 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 3: really for me when it all began, so balls came down. 272 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:13,359 Speaker 3: Was that again the education piece. 273 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 2: That sounds like a huge, heavy conversation to have had 274 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 2: with your parents. Did you go into that conversation ready 275 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 2: to have it or it just kind of came about. 276 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 3: No, I was going to war. At that point. I 277 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 3: was done because I had seen how bad and how 278 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 3: unhealthy the situation was, and it was a bad, bad situation, 279 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 3: and I could see just the hopelessness in it that 280 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 3: these younger siblings. When I saw that little spark, that 281 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 3: little piece of hope, like I want something else? Can 282 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 3: I please go to school? I really want to go 283 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 3: and just that no, you're not going. So when I 284 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 3: went to have that conversation, my older siblings went with me. 285 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 3: They backed me up. They said, again, this is not working. 286 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 3: Whatever the faith or whatever the component is here, it's 287 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 3: a fail and it's created a lot of misery and heartache. 288 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,640 Speaker 3: And these are kids that are asking, can I want 289 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 3: to go to school? So we're going to back them 290 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 3: and we're going to make sure that they have that opportunity. 291 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: And so they left. They took with them what little 292 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 1: knowledge they had and found jobs and began to build 293 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: a new life. But it was far from easy. This 294 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: was just the beginning of a long road of healing 295 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: past traumas, navigating the outside world, and learning the new 296 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 1: and unlearning the old. 297 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,199 Speaker 3: I was in my car some of the time. My 298 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 3: sister and I had a little apartment. My brothers rented 299 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 3: a little place. My first job was at food service 300 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:55,880 Speaker 3: ice cream, and I remember trying to understand. I had 301 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 3: no idea what a credit card was, how it worked. 302 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 3: I'd never seen one. I didn't understand learning to try 303 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 3: to handle money, make change. And then it took me 304 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 3: about a year to understand that credit cards and cash 305 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 3: money and like lottery cards are different things. 306 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,639 Speaker 2: Do you remember what that felt like on your side 307 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 2: when you started to meet people. 308 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:25,400 Speaker 3: I can only tell you that it's like walking out 309 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 3: of fog. When you grow up like that, it's a 310 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 3: process of walking out of that and learning unlearning, you know, 311 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 3: all this awful messaging, and then learning new things. I 312 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 3: still have those moments where I'm just the odd duck 313 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 3: out because it's a very strange upbringing and so much 314 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:51,120 Speaker 3: of pop culture, so people would be referencing movies and 315 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 3: songs and groups, and I did not have any idea 316 00:18:56,040 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 3: who or what the Beatles were. So it was challenging 317 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 3: to try to catch up with the people around and 318 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 3: really learn to navigate a world that I knew nothing about, 319 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 3: less than nothing. I think it took a while for 320 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:16,480 Speaker 3: me to begin to think I could have a life 321 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 3: an education. I had my first child when I was 322 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 3: nineteen and got married and began that kind of homemaker 323 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 3: role again. So it was always a thing in the 324 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:31,400 Speaker 3: back of my mind. I would love to go to college. 325 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 3: I would love to be able to do these things, 326 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,360 Speaker 3: but they seemed off limits. They seemed out of reach 327 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:40,399 Speaker 3: for me because I was so far behind the eight ball. 328 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: But Susie was determined. She knew that knowledge, education, and 329 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:48,880 Speaker 1: reading were essential, so she started night classes to get 330 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 1: her GED. And I want to note that a GED 331 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: does not start at an elementary level. That means that 332 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:58,679 Speaker 1: she had to learn the very basics, like what a 333 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 1: fraction is at the same time as completing algebra or 334 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:05,639 Speaker 1: learning how to spell, at the same time as taking 335 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 1: poetry and writing a high coup. 336 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 3: But I really wanted to learn, and I was able 337 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,679 Speaker 3: to get my GED. I think that is when it 338 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:17,440 Speaker 3: dawned on me that I could potentially not start over 339 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 3: but catch up. 340 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 2: When you had your daughter and you got married, did 341 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:25,440 Speaker 2: that feel like a way out for you? 342 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:27,120 Speaker 3: Or did it? Oh? 343 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 5: It did? 344 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:32,399 Speaker 3: Oh absolutely. It's a process. It's a long process to 345 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,880 Speaker 3: walk out. And I would say every one of those 346 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 3: steps was a step out. And yeah, getting married young, 347 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 3: I got married young, started my family young. Yeah, in 348 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 3: a lot of ways, it was one more step out 349 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 3: of that situation. And it's hard when you have your 350 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 3: own kids and the only thing I knew was what 351 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 3: I had been raised with. So it's hard to start 352 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:01,360 Speaker 3: over and you don't realize how many of those beliefs 353 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 3: are so deep. And my older sister had three at 354 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 3: the same time that I did, so we were both 355 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 3: kind of walking out of that childhood belief system and 356 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 3: trying to establish so, Okay, we're not doing it that way, 357 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 3: how are we going to do it? And she had 358 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,639 Speaker 3: three little ones right at the same time, so she 359 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:19,479 Speaker 3: and I walked through a lot of that together. 360 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 2: Well, what were those conversations, like what did you decide 361 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 2: to keep, decide to toss? Like the way you were 362 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 2: making new traditions. 363 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:30,919 Speaker 3: It was very touch and go. So, like the faith piece, 364 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:34,640 Speaker 3: I tried really hard to have more of a main 365 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 3: stream I would say kind of faith at the time. 366 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 3: It would still try to be involved in like churches, 367 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 3: but not quite as far off or whatever that was fundamental, 368 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,200 Speaker 3: I guess, but it just it took a while. Those 369 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 3: were the conversations were more around faith and we don't 370 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,120 Speaker 3: believe this. Obviously, we're not going to raise our kids 371 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:54,400 Speaker 3: like this, so how are we going to do it? It 372 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 3: was hard and it was scary. It was scary. As 373 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 3: my kids got older, the married came to an end, 374 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 3: and I was looking at a situation where I'm starting 375 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:11,880 Speaker 3: completely over, completely ground zero, nothing, starting completely over. In 376 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 3: my late thirties early forties and having adult children and 377 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 3: looking at being a single mom. I looked at myself 378 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:24,680 Speaker 3: and said, you can do this. You're capable of doing this. 379 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 3: And that's when I became involved in roofing and the 380 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 3: commercial roofing side. So a lot of my brothers are roofers, 381 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 3: aren't involved in the roofing trade. So I began to 382 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 3: just kind of as a matter of here's the next 383 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 3: thing I can learn, began to learn the roofing side, 384 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 3: and it really gave me a place to go from 385 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 3: zero to one hundred without feeling like I had missed 386 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,159 Speaker 3: out on so much already it was too late for me, 387 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,720 Speaker 3: so I didn't need the college peace to learn at 388 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,199 Speaker 3: the time. I was able to build a life in 389 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 3: the beginnings of a career learning the trade. 390 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,159 Speaker 2: Do you think there was a part of it that 391 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 2: appealed to you because it is such a male dominated industry. 392 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 2: If you're going to say, you know, if I'm going 393 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 2: to go into anything, like, I'm. 394 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,680 Speaker 1: Already getting rid of that part that says I can't work, 395 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 1: like if I'm diving in, I'm diving right in. 396 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,879 Speaker 3: Probably maybe on a subconscious level, but there was some 397 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:23,640 Speaker 3: pretty horrible things that I lived through, and pretty much 398 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,680 Speaker 3: you don't have any fear after that. So the male 399 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,719 Speaker 3: dominated industry, it didn't scare me because I had already 400 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,880 Speaker 3: lived through a lot by that time, and I had 401 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 3: convinced myself of my own resilience and ability to learn. 402 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:42,640 Speaker 3: But honestly, for me, everybody that I came in contact with, 403 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 3: they were mentors and allies. This trade just meets you 404 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 3: with arms wide open. And then as I got better 405 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 3: at it, learning the admin side, learning a little bit 406 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 3: of the HR side, bids, project management, estimating all that stuff, 407 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,680 Speaker 3: and just kind of worked my way up the food chain, 408 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:07,119 Speaker 3: I guess. So really leaning into it looked like learning 409 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 3: different technologies, So learning about those, how they went together, 410 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,879 Speaker 3: what made one different from the other one, what made 411 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 3: one work in one area of the country that didn't 412 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 3: work in another area of the country. And then the 413 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 3: other part of it was learning how to then take 414 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 3: the solutions and the thing that I was learning and 415 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 3: take it down to a local level to your school 416 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 3: or your church or your gymnasm or your store or whatever, 417 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 3: and say here's what we can do, and here's what 418 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:33,040 Speaker 3: here's some options for you. 419 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 2: So what does your career look like now. 420 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 3: So COVID of course through everybody for a loop, and 421 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:45,160 Speaker 3: that was forced a lot of us to learn new tools. 422 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 3: I had been pretty much just consulting with different clients, 423 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 3: and towards the end of cod was approached by GAF 424 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,879 Speaker 3: and they offered me a position with their Roofing Academy, 425 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 3: which is such a cool organization because what Roofing Academy 426 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:05,919 Speaker 3: does is teach. 427 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: This was a full circle moment for her from growing 428 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,879 Speaker 1: up with no access to education and not being able 429 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 1: to read to now sharing her knowledge and teaching others. 430 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:23,920 Speaker 3: So it's very cool for me because any woman can 431 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 3: take the education that's offered and take her career as 432 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 3: far as she wants to go. So came on board 433 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 3: with JF in April and at the beginning of September 434 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,679 Speaker 3: was actually promoted and started a new position on the 435 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:43,160 Speaker 3: care side. And what care does is teach roofing contractors. 436 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 3: So where Roofing Academy teaches brand new baby roofers trade, 437 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 3: the contractors are people that are already established and we're 438 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 3: just supporting them and teaching whatever technology that there is 439 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 3: a need for. 440 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,399 Speaker 2: Can you think of a time when you look back 441 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:04,400 Speaker 2: and you thought to yourself, yes, I'm really doing it, 442 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 2: like I bet on myself and I bet correctly. 443 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 3: I would say I'm kind of experiencing that now because 444 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 3: I knew I could do it, and there are so 445 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 3: many of those situations where talk about imposter syndrome, I 446 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 3: would say, just looking back on the wild ride that 447 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 3: it's been, especially now where I've got this incredible opportunity 448 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 3: with GAF, where I'm helping now to teach other people 449 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 3: and with the help of the wonderful team here helping 450 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 3: to develop education, which has been the catalyst for me. 451 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 3: I think now is that time, more than any other time, 452 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 3: to just say, wow, this has really been something. 453 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 1: There's no question that Susie's family dynamic is strained after 454 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:53,120 Speaker 1: years of suppression and mistreatment, but it has only made 455 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,199 Speaker 1: her closer with her siblings. 456 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 3: To this day. I'm very close to my siblings. Our 457 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,719 Speaker 3: well being was always focused on them, that they were okay, 458 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,680 Speaker 3: because again they were all younger, and I had raised 459 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 3: my siblings, so in a lot of ways they were mine. 460 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,400 Speaker 1: Did you have a relationship with your parents at that point? 461 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: When did you start speaking with them again? 462 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:21,199 Speaker 3: That relationship I don't know how to really describe it, 463 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 3: except that it was very pathological. It wasn't a good 464 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 3: situation for anybody. 465 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 1: Things didn't start to shift in her relationship with her 466 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 1: parents until her younger siblings had been allowed to go 467 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 1: to school. As the younger kids began to slowly thrive, 468 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 1: she saw a shift in her parents and that relationship 469 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 1: began to thaw, ever so slightly. 470 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 3: I think once my parents began to see that this 471 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,360 Speaker 3: is working, These kids are doing better, they are thriving 472 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 3: in this environment, the relationship began to soften them more. 473 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 3: With my mom, I would say, because she came around 474 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 3: later on down the road. She came around to a 475 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 3: point it got better, but it took a while. 476 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,440 Speaker 2: Would you say that they got I guess if the 477 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:08,879 Speaker 2: opposite of off the grid is on the grid, Like, 478 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 2: did they become sort of a little more mainstreamed in society, No. 479 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 3: My parents never did. No, my siblings definitely, but no, 480 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 3: my parents never. My mom would come to some school 481 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,879 Speaker 3: functions that kind of thing, but that was about the 482 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,640 Speaker 3: extent of it. More so my dad than my mom 483 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,639 Speaker 3: was still very committed to the particular cult leader and 484 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 3: that system of belief. And to question that was you 485 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 3: did not question God's man or God's anything. So he 486 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 3: was still very rigid that way. Not so much my mom, 487 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 3: and she you could have those conversations with her in 488 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 3: later years. 489 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 2: What do you want people who are listening to take 490 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 2: away from your story. 491 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 3: That they can do it too. There are different things 492 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 3: that keep us down, especially as women. Every one of 493 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 3: us can tell a story of that time we didn't 494 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 3: think we could get out of bed, and just looking 495 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 3: down over the edge of the bed and seeing our 496 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 3: feet on the floor was an incredible accomplishment for that day. 497 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 3: Don't let the expectations of other people define or limit 498 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 3: you so in my case, for the longest time, I 499 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 3: felt like I was the late comer to the party 500 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 3: and I would never get caught up because I didn't 501 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 3: go to college. I didn't go to school, and it 502 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 3: was just like on a loop in my head. You 503 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 3: didn't this, you didn't that. It felt like the world 504 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 3: as I knew it was ending because I had no 505 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 3: idea what was going to actually happen. But by God, 506 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,959 Speaker 3: I'm here now, and here's what I can do. I 507 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 3: can learn this trade, I can learn a new skill set. 508 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 3: We make our own destiny, and that's the truth. 509 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Susie for joining us. It's been 510 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 2: such a great conversation. Thank you so much. 511 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 3: It's been my pleasure. I really really appreciate the opportunity 512 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 3: to talk to you guys. 513 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 1: Susie still works as an instructor for gaf Roofing Academy 514 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 1: and has three amazing children. Despite the trials she had 515 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 1: faced throughout her life, Susie is a true ray of sunshine. 516 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 1: This conversation was so inspiring for me, and I hope 517 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 1: for you as well. If you are someone you know 518 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 1: is looking for a career in the trades are roofing. 519 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:31,719 Speaker 1: They can find gaf Roofing Academy on Instagram at gaf Roofing. 520 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to this episode of She Pivots, 521 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 1: where I talk with women about how their experiences and 522 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:45,760 Speaker 1: significant personal events led to their pivot and eventually their success. 523 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 1: To learn more about our guests, follow us on Instagram at. 524 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 2: She Pivots the podcast. 525 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 1: Leave a rating and comment if you enjoyed this episode 526 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: to help others learn about it. A special thank you 527 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 1: to our partner Marie Clair and the team that made 528 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 1: this episode possible. 529 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 2: Talk to you next week. 530 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 1: She Pivots is hosted by me Emily Tish Sussman, produced 531 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: by Emily eda Veloshik, with sound editing and mixing from 532 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 1: Nina Pollock and research and planning from Christine Dickinson and 533 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 1: Hannah Cousins. 534 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 3: I endorse Te Pivots