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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is Chris Robinson of the Black Ros,

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Speaker 1: who have a new album, Happiness Bastards.

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Speaker 2: So, Chris, what's your favorite Grateful Dead album?

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Speaker 3: Live Dead has to be the best one.

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Speaker 4: I mean, wait, wait, wait, wait, we're talking about the

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Speaker 4: initial Life Dead sixty.

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Speaker 3: Five, Dead ninety. Yeah. I mean you can argue eure

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Speaker 3: up seventy two. My wife's going, e're rope seventy two.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, I get that. But there's something about Live

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Speaker 3: Dead because you know, in a way it's it is

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Speaker 3: It's like that's a that's an avant garde, acid driven

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Speaker 3: punk commune like anarchists sort of manifesto. I mean, I mean,

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Speaker 3: I think that's the record where they're really wild, you

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Speaker 3: know what I mean, Like the music is wild and

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Speaker 3: it's unruly, and I think that's kind of the thing

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Speaker 3: that interests me in rock and roll anyway, you know

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Speaker 3: what I mean. Like, I you know, it's funny because

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Speaker 3: I meet people and depending really on you know, where

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Speaker 3: you grew up, like everyone in Long Island, whether you

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Speaker 3: like them or not, new the Grateful Dead because they

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Speaker 3: played them on those radio stations, and they even outside

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Speaker 3: of their underground sort of significance to people or their

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Speaker 3: cult popularity. In Atlanta ninety six rock God bless them,

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Speaker 3: they're playing Radar Love and Sugar Loaf and shit, you

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Speaker 3: know what I mean, They're not I'm not hearing any

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Speaker 3: of that music in the same way that people in

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Speaker 3: southern California would have known the Grateful Dead, you know,

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Speaker 3: even by the by the time Don Henley is referencing

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Speaker 3: them in a song or something, you know. So, but

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Speaker 3: when I finally found my way to it, I I

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Speaker 3: I think that's the I mean, especially that Dark Star,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean, that's the.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the first side, like twenty five minutes or something.

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Speaker 3: But you know, it's funny. A couple of weeks ago,

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Speaker 3: we my wife and I went to the uh Los

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Speaker 3: Fieleas Theater. It's part of the Aero Theater whatever they

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Speaker 3: call that thing where they you know, it's art house cinema,

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Speaker 3: but they play old moves and we went to see

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Speaker 3: Antonioni Zabrinsky point. And I had seen the film, you know,

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Speaker 3: on DVD or you know, smaller scale, not on the

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Speaker 3: scale that it was meant to be seen. And when

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Speaker 3: they get to the love scene. Uh, you know, Jerry Garcia.

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Speaker 3: They flew him down from San Francisco and he had

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Speaker 3: one he had his twin reverb and he had his

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Speaker 3: strat at the time, and they just played the love

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Speaker 3: scenes from the desert on a loop for him and

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Speaker 3: he just improvises those beautiful little short bursts of notes,

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Speaker 3: these little melodies and stuff. And anyway, that's also my favorite,

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Speaker 3: grateful to record, even though it's Jerry and on a

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Speaker 3: sound stage just improvising to this beautiful, you know, art film.

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Speaker 2: Really, you know, I gotta stop you there for a

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Speaker 2: second because I have to tell the story. This is

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Speaker 2: the only time it's ever come up. When when I

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Speaker 2: was in school in junior high, there was a girl,

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Speaker 2: Cynthia Fraschett, and we used to call her Behemoth, which

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Speaker 2: is terrible, but she was a real outcast. And she

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Speaker 2: told us my brother's gonna be in a movie. He's

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Speaker 2: gonna be in a movie star. We say, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: And her brother was Mark Foschett, who's the star of

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Speaker 2: the really.

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Speaker 3: And you you just thought it was completely like, oh, yeah, yeah, exactly. Person. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I tell you, it's funny that the movie really is

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Speaker 3: much maligned film back when it came out, and I

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Speaker 3: still think there's an air of I don't know if

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Speaker 3: people can really grasp the scale of it, which, by

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Speaker 3: the way, to me makes it holy psychedelic. I mean,

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Speaker 3: who said they're supposed to be an answer in the mythtic?

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Speaker 3: You know what I mean? We suggest, because we live

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Speaker 3: in an era where you know, you have so much

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Speaker 3: information at the tip of your fingers in an instant,

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Speaker 3: that they're supposed to be answers. But I mean, personally,

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Speaker 3: I find very little interest in that. I find a

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Speaker 3: lot of arrogance and science and in like things like

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Speaker 3: archaeology and anthropology and things, even though the solid base

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Speaker 3: of it obviously is really important and significant to our

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Speaker 3: understanding of the world around us. But we have seemed

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Speaker 3: to drift away from being able to appreciate the great

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Speaker 3: mystery of things.

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Speaker 2: Just to stop. Are you a big movie fan or

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Speaker 2: are you a historian? Have you seen all this?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I'm a huge you know. My My three the

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Speaker 3: three uh deep interests that branch out into many other

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Speaker 3: things have always been music, literature, cinema. That's the what

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Speaker 3: when I'm not making music. Those are the things that

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Speaker 3: I'm deeply interested in. But then that turns into history

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Speaker 3: and travel and food and UH and all sorts of

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Speaker 3: different esoteric interests.

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Speaker 2: Okay, your two favorite movies of all time?

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Speaker 3: Okay, well it's okay. My my favorite movie of all

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Speaker 3: time maybe is Marcel Carn's The Children of Paradise. I

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Speaker 3: think it's a movie that never fails to bring me

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Speaker 3: into a world that that doesn't exist, bring me into

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Speaker 3: a world of you know, the early days of the

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Speaker 3: stand age and UH in Paris on the Boulevard to

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Speaker 3: Crime with all these characters. You know, it's funny. A

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Speaker 3: lot of people maybe who don't know the film. You know,

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Speaker 3: when Bob Dylan is wearing the white makeup and the

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Speaker 3: hat with the flowers, he he that's Baptiste, one of

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Speaker 3: the main three characters in that film. He is the

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Speaker 3: soul of the art. He is the he is the

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Speaker 3: one that can reach anyone, you know, with his art

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Speaker 3: and his UH and his magic. You know. So, and

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Speaker 3: it's it's funny. There's a lot of UH that movie,

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Speaker 3: in that era of Bob Dylan, and and it's fun

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Speaker 3: I also I have a poster made it. You know,

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Speaker 3: that film was made at the very end of the

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Speaker 3: Nazi occupation of Paris. So by the time it comes

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Speaker 3: out that there's some posters in the world that are

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Speaker 3: reprinted on like, you know, the poster for the film

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Speaker 3: is reprinted on another poster, you know, so if you

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Speaker 3: get in the light right you can see it. They

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Speaker 3: didn't have the materials. And the guy who sold me

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Speaker 3: that poster many years ago, he was like, oh, you know,

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Speaker 3: this poster is pretty rare, and I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: he goes, I've only ever sold one other them. I

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Speaker 3: was like, oho, he said, do you mind telling me?

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Speaker 3: Said I sold it to Bob Dylan, and I was like,

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Speaker 3: I was like, how cool. My second favorite movie of

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Speaker 3: all time is I would say the film called with

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Speaker 3: Nell and I. I don't know if you know that

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Speaker 3: movie about two Oh yeah, fantastic movie. Bruce Robinson directed

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Speaker 3: and wrote the script. But that's more obscure. Let's just

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Speaker 3: let's just call it what it is. My second favorite movie,

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Speaker 3: a movie that is the funniest movie ever made. Bit

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Speaker 3: for bit, gag for gag, joke for joke, minute for

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Speaker 3: a minute is Young Frankenstein and.

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Speaker 2: Interesting.

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Speaker 3: My wife and I read The Airport recently and I

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Speaker 3: was doing some stick from Young Frank Sotin and some

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Speaker 3: lady goes, oh, that, what is that. I'm like, I said,

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Speaker 3: Young Frank. Soon she goes, well, I'll have to write

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Speaker 3: that down. And I'm like, what what world are we?

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Speaker 2: How old is your wife?

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Speaker 3: My wife is forty four. It wasn't her. My wife

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Speaker 3: and I were together and someone else she knows. Of

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Speaker 3: course she knows what it is. I wouldn't have married

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Speaker 3: someone who doesn't know what Young Franke's done it. It

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Speaker 3: was a random person over here, I said, I said,

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Speaker 3: we were doing a bit from the movie.

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Speaker 2: So what bit were you doing?

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Speaker 3: Oh? I don't know? My bit that My favorite bit

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Speaker 3: from the movie are always the small details. Of course,

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Speaker 3: the funniest thing to me in the whole movie is

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Speaker 3: when they wheel the guy out at the beginning of

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Speaker 3: the movie and they're like, mister.

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Speaker 5: Whatever here is you know gonna be as experiment and

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Speaker 5: he's like, if you just hop off the table, and

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Speaker 5: the guy like slides off the table and gene Wider's like,

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Speaker 5: nice hopping, and that really gets me. And when Peter

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Speaker 5: Boyle from the original movie is about to throw the

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Speaker 5: little girl into the pond and drown her or whatever,

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Speaker 5: but they cut to her parents because she the mother.

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Speaker 5: The mother comes down the stairs and the father is

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Speaker 5: hammering boards.

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Speaker 3: Over the window, and she goes, what are you doing?

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Speaker 3: And he goes, when monsters are loose, boards must be tight.

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Speaker 3: That's okay.

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Speaker 2: Let's switch gears. Give me two of your favorite books.

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Speaker 3: Oh dear, Oh dear, Oh dear. That's that's it, you

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Speaker 3: know that one starts to becomed. I guess I could

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Speaker 3: go more in like what and I can access what

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Speaker 3: I've read in the last you know, wild that is

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Speaker 3: stuck with me because I read so much. I love

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Speaker 3: this book called Naples forty four and it's about this

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Speaker 3: British he was in in the Military Police. He was

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Speaker 3: a high ranking officer in the Military Police and he

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Speaker 3: is assigned to Naples right after the Allied and invasion

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Speaker 3: repels the Germans and the fascists and they're retreating nor

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Speaker 3: you know, they're fighting the battle to go up the

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Speaker 3: Italian peninsula and he's stuck there. It is it's one

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Speaker 3: on one that it's a chilling horror story about the

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Speaker 3: you know, the horrors of war are happening with the

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Speaker 3: violence and the and the run. You know, what's going

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Speaker 3: on in those in those dramatic moments, but it's also

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Speaker 3: the aftermath of that that becomes the real you know,

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Speaker 3: where you see the you see the human condition at

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Speaker 3: its most tender and it's most poignant, but you also

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Speaker 3: see it at its most vile, destructive and evil. And

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Speaker 3: I think the juxtaposition of those things in terms of

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Speaker 3: just also being very interested in the subject, interested in

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Speaker 3: the time, very interested in Italian culture, and many good

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Speaker 3: friends from Naples, especially just an incredible, incredible book. And

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Speaker 3: I can't say enough about a guy passed away a

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Speaker 3: couple of years ago named Dale Pendle. I believe the Pharmacopoeia.

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Speaker 3: He has a three volume set that's basically an encyclopedia

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Speaker 3: on chemicals drugs, whether it be caffeine, amphetamines, LSD, DMT, heroin, cocaine, tobacco, anything,

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Speaker 3: any small thing. But he writes his text is very

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Speaker 3: much alive in the way Robert Graves. I don't know

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Speaker 3: Robert Graves. He's a poet. He intertwines his story with

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Speaker 3: a sort of history of human beings and their pursuit

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Speaker 3: for bliss. And you know, the book starts that he

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Speaker 3: retreats to some cabin way up in northern California to

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Speaker 3: have peace away from everything, to start to put this

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Speaker 3: book together. And he puts a sign over the front door.

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Speaker 3: Are all demons welcome. And I just always found that

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Speaker 3: to be amazing visual. They're very hard to find, and

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Speaker 3: they're they're kind of expensive. Now they're a trilogy, and

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Speaker 3: but they it's not they're in They're just beautiful and interesting.

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Speaker 3: And again I look for I really like things that

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Speaker 3: are alive, and I've had the unique opportunity and perspective

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Speaker 3: maybe because I, you know, am dyslexic, that I've been

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Speaker 3: able to read between the lines or put myself as

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Speaker 3: an outsider and see the fire and light within sometimes

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Speaker 3: that maybe other people wouldn't. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: What is going on in your house growing up that

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Speaker 2: you have these interests.

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Speaker 3: Uh Well, like I said, I I don't know. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I mean my parents had a lot of books. And

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Speaker 3: I always laugh, you know what I mean, because when

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Speaker 3: you're when you're a kid and there's shelves and books,

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Speaker 3: my eye goes directly to helter skelter and I'm like

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Speaker 3: looking at all the crime photos and like the Vanson

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Speaker 3: murders and stuff. But I always had I think growing

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Speaker 3: up in Atlanta, and I think when you're a child,

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Speaker 3: obviously the filters aren't there. And growing up in a

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Speaker 3: city that I was very aware of for whatever reason,

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Speaker 3: that had been punished and had been burned to the ground.

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Speaker 3: The phoenix was something that I really understood as a

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Speaker 3: symbol early on, because that's the symbol of Atlanta. But also,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean, and my dad, Rich and

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Speaker 3: I are third generation Atlantin's. We also my grandfather was

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Speaker 3: Schmada business, a Jewish guy, Ike Robinson, So I have

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Speaker 3: that side of the Atlanta experience. But being around in

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Speaker 3: the woods and stuff and seeing ghosts and feeling them

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Speaker 3: and no knowing that you know that people lost their

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Speaker 3: lives in these trenches and stuff. You know, I just

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Speaker 3: have always had a very active imagination we had. And

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Speaker 3: I think the other main trust me my parents, you know,

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Speaker 3: like I said, being dyslexic, like I couldn't tie my shoe,

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Speaker 3: But I really knew a lot about zulus in kindergarten,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean. It was like, why is

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Speaker 3: your kid the only kid who can't tell time, but

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Speaker 3: he knows a shit ton about zuluz? You know, Like,

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Speaker 3: so who knows the way the mind works, well, I

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Speaker 3: guess scientists, but in my case, I know, but my

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Speaker 3: mom and dad also when they got together, had a

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Speaker 3: lot of records, you know what I mean. I read

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Speaker 3: an article not too long ago that the average family,

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Speaker 3: like in the fifties or late fifties to the mid

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Speaker 3: sixties maybe had eight or nine records, you know what

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Speaker 3: I mean. That would be your little record collection on

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Speaker 3: those little.

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Speaker 2: Of course ten things.

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Speaker 3: We probably have two hundred and fifty records, which isn't

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Speaker 3: a lot to me now, but at the time, and

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Speaker 3: it was like, you know, I was just had a

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Speaker 3: I wanted to explore. So it's like, you know, like

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Speaker 3: this is oh, Jimmy Reid and Mose Allison and Lester Flatten,

250
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Speaker 3: Earl Scrugs and the Luvin brothers and uh more. You know.

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Speaker 3: I still have my dad's copy of the first Buffalo

252
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Speaker 3: Springfield mono copy with this for what It's worth sticker

253
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Speaker 3: on crossby Stills, Nash and Young signed a family stone.

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Speaker 3: You know. So there was a lot of different Johnny Guitar,

255
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Speaker 3: Watson records. You know, all sorts of things come to

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Speaker 3: mind when I think of and then as we get

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Speaker 3: as I get older, I'm obsessed with music, and you know,

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Speaker 3: these were the things that I could understand, you know

259
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Speaker 3: what I mean, These were things that made me feel

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Speaker 3: and made me feel a part of the world and

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Speaker 3: whatever little whatever that means. Looking out from a place

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Speaker 3: like Atlanta at that time, you know, I remember having

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Speaker 3: a distinct feeling of being very far away from the

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Speaker 3: rest of whatever America must feel like or look like.

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Speaker 3: And then at that time, you know, I luckily find

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Speaker 3: Kerouac and Burroughs and Ginsburg and like thousands of others

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Speaker 3: of us, Bob Dylan mins my dad. My dad was

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Speaker 3: the kind of guy who didn't buy Blonde on Blonde

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Speaker 3: because it wasn't the same Bob Dylan, you know. So

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Speaker 3: I grew up with that person that felt that kind

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Speaker 3: of as if rock and roll wasn't pure enough. You know.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so you're going to school, did you know you

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Speaker 2: were dyslectic? Then they had tests or you only know

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Speaker 2: in retrospect.

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Speaker 3: My mom knew something was different, and because of teachers saying, like,

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Speaker 3: you know, he really excels at this, but he's really

277
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Speaker 3: having trouble with some of these things. And you know,

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Speaker 3: this diagnosis takes place in the early seventies, you know,

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Speaker 3: and in the Deep South, I mean a I'm fifty seven.

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Speaker 3: We would be the first generation. I could be wrong,

281
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Speaker 3: but I know people a little bit older than me

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Speaker 3: who have subsequently been diagnosed as dyslexic and then being dyslexic.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of It's not just one thing, of course,

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Speaker 3: but that I would be one of the first generations.

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Speaker 3: And my mom, in her tenacity and her wisdom, wanted

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Speaker 3: some answers, you know what I mean, and she found them.

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Speaker 3: And I was very lucky that there's a school in Atlanta.

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Speaker 3: It's still there, Skank Schooled. Unfortunate name for doctor Skanks.

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Speaker 3: But I would go to school and then go there

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Speaker 3: after school three days a week to you know, to

291
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Speaker 3: try to turn around what I could, and it never

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Speaker 3: The biggest gift of that was reading, you know what

293
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Speaker 3: I mean. But then again, the like part of my

294
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Speaker 3: thing is like I'm an avid reader. I can retain

295
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Speaker 3: a lot of information I've been, but I cannot spell,

296
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Speaker 3: to say, I mean, you know, when I when I

297
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Speaker 3: met my wife, I was like, listen, I'm going to

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Speaker 3: ask you to spell things and cleats. Just try to

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Speaker 3: refrain from disgust to shame or laughing at me. You know,

300
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Speaker 3: it just goes. I've never been able to do it.

301
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Speaker 3: But my mom recognized that, and she, you know, she

302
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Speaker 3: was calling, you know, from Atlanta in nineteen seventy three.

303
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Speaker 3: She's calling people at Harvard University to get answers, you

304
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Speaker 3: know what I mean. So I get the cerebral side

305
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Speaker 3: from my mom, and then I get something, you know,

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00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:51,320
Speaker 3: I get something else from you know, talking about the

307
00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,920
Speaker 3: records and stuff. That my other earliest memories. My dad

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Speaker 3: was a folk singer. He was on ABC Paramount. He

309
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Speaker 3: had a group called the Appellations. They made two sides,

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Speaker 3: you know, and it was funny because he was immersed

311
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Speaker 3: in like traditional folk music, so his presentation would be

312
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Speaker 3: very unlike the kind of commercial folk records. You know.

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Speaker 3: He was kind of doing that serendipity sing sid rock

314
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Speaker 3: is you know, sid right down, bit let your yeah

315
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Speaker 3: girl in those big twelve stringth That kind of commercial

316
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Speaker 3: folks sound would be the couple of records he made.

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Speaker 3: But and you know, in the fifties, he he had

318
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Speaker 3: a hit record with a song called Booma. Dip Dip

319
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Speaker 3: was the top forty hit and it was more like

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Speaker 3: a I would consider like a Bobby Darren kind of

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Speaker 3: rock and roll song, you know, a little edge of

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Speaker 3: what was left of do wop and cool. It's a

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Speaker 3: really cool song. And he cut some other singles that

324
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Speaker 3: didn't do as well. But when he ended up back

325
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Speaker 3: in the South after the rock and roll phase, he

326
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Speaker 3: was in folk music and you know, when he was

327
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Speaker 3: home on a Saturday morning, whatever, he would pull out

328
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Speaker 3: the you know, his Martin is nineteen fifty three Martin,

329
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Speaker 3: which my brother you know, wrote she Talks Angels and

330
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Speaker 3: played on All Our still played on this newest record,

331
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Speaker 3: and he would sing and it would just open up

332
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Speaker 3: all of this because he would also my dad was

333
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Speaker 3: he would explain, like, okay, so this song comes from

334
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,280
Speaker 3: originally is like what someone in Wales was singing like

335
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Speaker 3: a couple hundred years ago, and then by the time

336
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Speaker 3: it gets on a boat and comes here and it

337
00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:36,600
Speaker 3: ends up in Appalachia, it turns into this and that

338
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:41,760
Speaker 3: kind of connection I always found not just interesting, but

339
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Speaker 3: very comforting in some weird way, you know. And I

340
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:48,399
Speaker 3: think I had a a nate understanding that the song,

341
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Speaker 3: if you're a singer and a musician, that the music

342
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Speaker 3: we played in the song we sing is just this

343
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:57,080
Speaker 3: one big song that's been going on for ever, you know,

344
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Speaker 3: since there's been people. And I loved murder ballads, and

345
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:06,040
Speaker 3: I loved like the really dark side and stuff, you know,

346
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Speaker 3: I loved all those kind of songs and so and

347
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:13,720
Speaker 3: then he would play records a lot too, and that

348
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,480
Speaker 3: would be that would be you know, I learned so

349
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Speaker 3: much from that. I don't even know I'm learning at

350
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Speaker 3: the time, but I'm being able to put together and

351
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,240
Speaker 3: you know, the Alan Lomack song of the South Box

352
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Speaker 3: that is still like a holy relic or something to me,

353
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Speaker 3: you know. And I still have my dad's copies of

354
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Speaker 3: those records.

355
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Speaker 2: So what kind of kid are you? Do you have friends,

356
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Speaker 2: do you play sports? Or you alone in your room?

357
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Speaker 3: What do you like? I played sports. I was the skinniest, scrowniest,

358
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Speaker 3: weirdest kid out there, but I had a lot of guts.

359
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:58,280
Speaker 3: I played sports because it was fun. But I also

360
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:02,360
Speaker 3: played sports for my dad, because you know, he was

361
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:04,919
Speaker 3: scared to death that he would come home and I

362
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:09,160
Speaker 3: would look like a you know, sixteenth century French duke

363
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:14,080
Speaker 3: under a tree eating strawberries and lace things, reading poetry

364
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:17,680
Speaker 3: or something. He had really been upset. But I love sports.

365
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 3: I had friends when we were little always, but you know, yes,

366
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Speaker 3: you know, the world was different in the last century

367
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,240
Speaker 3: and a lot of your friend group were just whatever

368
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,119
Speaker 3: kids you didn't want to beat up in the neighborhood

369
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 3: or didn't want to beat you up, and you know,

370
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Speaker 3: so I think it's different now, but I always managed

371
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:42,359
Speaker 3: to find the kids that were you know, I'm sure

372
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,919
Speaker 3: the kids that I was friends with were always a

373
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Speaker 3: little bit on the outside like me and being but

374
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:53,399
Speaker 3: being able to laugh and being able to see to

375
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:55,360
Speaker 3: be you know, that was another big thing. My dad

376
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 3: loved Jonathan Winners and Don Rickles and George Carlin and

377
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,560
Speaker 3: you know Richard Pryor records. Growing up, I mean, I

378
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,919
Speaker 3: had access to some very saucy language, but mom and

379
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 3: dad knew in some way that I had a more

380
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:14,920
Speaker 3: adult relationship with the language, and I found it very funny,

381
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:19,960
Speaker 3: very humanizing that he could take his pain and turn

382
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 3: it into something like that. You know, but you know,

383
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,200
Speaker 3: you know, I guess we were weirdos. You know, we

384
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 3: looked normal on the outside, but we were pretty weird.

385
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Speaker 2: Have you always been this verbal?

386
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 3: Yes, of course. I just told you I can't spell anything.

387
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 2: Okay, some people could come to it later in life.

388
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 2: So you're obviously very intelligent. But being this verbal has

389
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,199
Speaker 2: it always worked for you or sometimes it works against you.

390
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,439
Speaker 3: It still works against me. I have to learn, and

391
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 3: you know, it's hard because in one way, I've always

392
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 3: felt that being a verbal creature like I am has

393
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 3: been in my sonar in a way, like a bat

394
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,880
Speaker 3: trying to get through a dark you know, get out

395
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 3: of the cave, mouth about hitting U stalag tight or something.

396
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:14,160
Speaker 3: You know, it's how I of course, as I've gotten older,

397
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 3: I have a little more control over it if I choose,

398
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:22,639
Speaker 3: But you know, my again, it gets down to the

399
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 3: simple things. I find the love of my life seven

400
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 3: years ago, and like Camille is so wise and she

401
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 3: has such a depth of understanding, and if I get

402
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 3: if she's the first one to say, you know, you

403
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:41,119
Speaker 3: can you know, kind of snap out and well just

404
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 3: put me in a perspective to realize. Like when I

405
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 3: was younger, I you know, it's like a young wizard

406
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 3: with his first power to like, you know, blow up

407
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,679
Speaker 3: the castle tower. You know, your words can hurt, you know,

408
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:57,159
Speaker 3: the poet's words are are his weapons as well. And

409
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:01,399
Speaker 3: I felt that I probably use that, you know what

410
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:03,360
Speaker 3: I mean? And so I mean, I know I did,

411
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 3: I know, I've I can upset people and hurt them

412
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 3: with the things I say just as much as I

413
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:12,239
Speaker 3: can entertain them, enlighten them, and encourage them, you know,

414
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 3: So it becomes more of the poet's responsibility.

415
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 2: Really, have you been to therapy?

416
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, I spent a lot a lot of years

417
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:27,400
Speaker 3: in therapy, which really helped. And I think to be honest,

418
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:36,239
Speaker 3: without that, and without the sort of awakening that like

419
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 3: finding my real partner represented, I don't think I could

420
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:44,119
Speaker 3: have ever even actually been in a real, sincere place.

421
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:55,439
Speaker 3: And I think my true character is is I would

422
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 3: like to think I have an authenticity that is uh,

423
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 3: that is obvious, you know, but that being that not

424
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 3: being a part of it, I couldn't be in a

425
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,199
Speaker 3: place where Rich and I actually could be where we

426
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 3: are today, and I think Rich would be way more

427
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 3: available for it, you know what I mean. I don't

428
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 3: think it was an impossibility. I just didn't have I

429
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 3: just didn't see the roses, you know what I mean.

430
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 3: I didn't see the forest for the trees in that instant.

431
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 2: Oh okay, So famously, your relationship with Rich has been contentious.

432
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 2: I have two sisters. I'm the middle kid. I do

433
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 2: not have brothers, so that whole experience is only something

434
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 2: I can hear about. I didn't have it. Ay, to

435
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 2: what degree is the suppressed story? To what degree do

436
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 2: you get along? To what degree is therapy and anything

437
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 2: mellowed you such that you can get along? What's going

438
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 2: on here?

439
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,639
Speaker 3: I mean I don't. I wouldn't say that, like you

440
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 3: have to. It's like anything else. You know, if you

441
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 3: want to progress or if you want to change, it's

442
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,959
Speaker 3: available for you. But you know, anything else is just

443
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 3: fucking lip service, right we you know, being of a

444
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 3: certain age, being Southern, I joke, but you know it's

445
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 3: a very English place, the South, the Atlanta we grew

446
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 3: up in, and English people, you know, usually aren't you know,

447
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 3: like it doesn't matter. It's like everyone all of a

448
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:31,400
Speaker 3: sudden is the Queen of England. I don't care how

449
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 3: anyone feels. I'm queen. You know. It's like so I

450
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 3: don't think we were given the tools and or I

451
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,679
Speaker 3: don't even think we knew that there were the tools

452
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 3: for that, just because of the way it was. And

453
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:53,159
Speaker 3: then you throw in there, you know, it's funny with

454
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 3: my brother. He's really very when you're with Rich one

455
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 3: on one, he's very fun very open, charming guy, very intelligent, talkative.

456
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 3: But if you're but if you don't get that he

457
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 3: you know, he would have social anxieties that I don't have.

458
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 3: So for many years, you know people you know, and

459
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 3: then here's a guy who feels like that, who's thrust

460
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 3: into the world of and I'm I'm your partner in

461
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 3: the in the band, and I'm your brother, and I

462
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 3: you know, my dressing room, I like to play Funkadelic

463
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 3: records at full blast, have people dancing. I like to

464
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,680
Speaker 3: get my my vibe going. Rich likes it to be

465
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 3: like his acoustic guitar, very calm, very mellow. He doesn't

466
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 3: like a lot of things coming around, you know what

467
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 3: I mean. And in the past I would kind of be,

468
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 3: you know, people like what's up with him and be

469
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 3: like I don't know what the fuck? You know what

470
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 3: I mean, Like why aren't you like this? And then

471
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 3: in his mind he would be like, why do you

472
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 3: have to be like that, you know, all the time?

473
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 3: Can it just be like peaceful one time? And like,

474
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 3: to me, that is my plays. So I think when

475
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 3: we're younger, and then you throw in the high Velocity

476
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 3: Avalanche that was our early success. You want that shit.

477
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 3: And you think you read the you read the Jim

478
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 3: Morrison book and you read the fucking you know, True

479
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 3: Adventures on the Rolling Stones or whatever. You think you

480
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 3: know what it's going to be, but it's not, you know.

481
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 3: I mean, it was funny at the end. In the

482
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 3: beginning of nineteen ninety, we're out here getting ready to

483
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 3: start the whole first album tour and stuff, and Rich

484
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 3: and I were staying at this Lee Bag motel that's

485
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 3: now the parking lot that used to be by the

486
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 3: Tower Records down there, and bless you, my love, and

487
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 3: we get a phone call. It's like Izzy Stradlin wants

488
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 3: you guys to come over from Guns n' Roses, and

489
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 3: like they're you know, they're fucking guns and Roses now,

490
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 3: but they were really fucking guns n' Roses in nineteen

491
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 3: eighty nine or whatever, you know. I mean, like that

492
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 3: shit was still like uh, you know, and we love

493
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 3: guns and Rows and we go to his house and

494
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 3: we're like, wow, this is cool, man. And I always

495
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 3: thought it was cool because he was lifted listening to

496
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 3: aftermath that stones record and that's what And I was like,

497
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 3: all right, cool, I'm digging this. You know, it's not easy.

498
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 3: And I'm like okay, and he's like, but we start talking.

499
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 3: He goes, you, guys, you don't you won't be prepared.

500
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 3: But when your rocket ship blast off, just hang on, man,

501
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 3: hang on for dear life and rich and I are like,

502
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 3: what is he talking about? You know what I mean?

503
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 3: There was no there were only besides ourselves. There were

504
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 3: only you know, like George d two people in the

505
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 3: world that believed that we would do the things that

506
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 3: we ended up doing. But I always look back on

507
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 3: that and said, hey, he told us. You know what

508
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 3: I mean. We had no you know, we had really

509
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 3: no way of understanding what he was telling us. But

510
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 3: that was all I always thought. Hey, so if you run, Itzy,

511
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 3: say thanks man.

512
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 2: You know, so what was it like?

513
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 3: Well, it was you know. The other thing is I

514
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 3: think we were you know, I tell people and it

515
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 3: seems weird. Now there's reality TV famous and TikTok famous,

516
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 3: and there's like this kind of famous and celebrity famous

517
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 3: and blah blah blah, and we were rock and roll famous,

518
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 3: you know, and it was different. I mean, I think

519
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 3: the one thing that was that was a challenge to

520
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 3: get over is Okay, so you're famous. Not only are

521
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 3: they playing your records on radio stations all over the

522
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 3: world all the time, but now you're on MTV. And

523
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 3: when you're on MTV, that means I'm on there with

524
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 3: with a lot of other bands, and so the people

525
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 3: can see the Young Black Crows on jealous again, hard

526
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 3: to handle that all that shit can come on MTV

527
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 3: and they'll see. But that also gives the person at

528
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 3: the bar you go to, like, I fucking don't like

529
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 3: that song, you know what I mean. So because you're

530
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 3: on MTV, because it's a visual medium, you're also now

531
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 3: having to deal with not you know, hey, man, backstage

532
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 3: everyone loves you. When you go after the show to

533
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 3: some rock and roll bar, there's gonna be some dude

534
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 3: in a Motorhead shirt that just doesn't like your jib,

535
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, or like whatever. So that

536
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 3: was something to deal with.

537
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 2: Okay. Was that really just jealousy of the fact that

538
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 2: you were famous as opposed to what your music sounded

539
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 2: like at who you really work.

540
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, either way, we were still sort of

541
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 3: coming out of our you know, living in the undesirable

542
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 3: part of town, no money. You know, we were pretty

543
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 3: for suburban kids. We were pretty street wise and we

544
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 3: were tough, and we didn't really we hadn't learned that

545
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 3: if somebody gets in your face that you don't like,

546
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 3: you know, fight or what you know, give them a

547
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 3: smack back or whatever. You know. So, yeah, you're absolutely

548
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 3: right about that, but we were in no position to

549
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 3: really see that then. We were just knew that there

550
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 3: was a threat.

551
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 2: Okay, so is he tracks you down before your record

552
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 2: after your record hits, which is very quickly. What are

553
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 2: some of the good things that happened?

554
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 3: Unimaginably beautiful things happened. Number One, we had. Number One,

555
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 3: we when like when the van went down to Orange

556
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 3: County to open for Junkyard on the first night in

557
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 3: the Shake Your money Maker tour. If nothing had ever

558
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 3: happened after that tour, we would have honestly felt in

559
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 3: our minds we did. What we really set out to

560
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 3: accomplish was to get out of Atlanta. And maybe this

561
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 3: goes back to you know, the Beatnick and me. I

562
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 3: wanted to get out on the road. I wanted to

563
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 3: see what it's about I wanted to I wanted to

564
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 3: feel what it's like, and we wanted to work hard,

565
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 3: and we knew that there was something there. I don't

566
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:00,719
Speaker 3: think we knew that we would have to deal with

567
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 3: that on the first record. I thought maybe, like some

568
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 3: other bands, you make a record, people like it, you

569
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 3: make another one, you figured it out, you have a

570
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 3: little trajectory that's not just you know, neither. It doesn't

571
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 3: matter because that's exactly what happened, and that's the most

572
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 3: beautiful thing that could ever happen. But like, you know,

573
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 3: I can almost remember the entire uh, it's inerary because

574
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 3: we were in a van and you know, the first

575
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 3: time you're in San Diego, first time I'm in Phoenix,

576
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 3: first time I'm in Texas. You know, like this is Texas,

577
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 3: Like what the fuck? You know? But the real special

578
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 3: things would be the laughing would be the fucking frust tired.

579
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 3: You know, where's one point of that first leg of

580
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 3: the tour. We did eighteen nights in a row, and shit,

581
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 3: you know, and starting to you know, our entrance into

582
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 3: the music business as well, figure out like, oh, we're

583
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 3: at the distributors of convention and now we're at Howard Stern,

584
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 3: I mean, Howard's Stern, and we're doing all all that

585
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 3: kind of stuff. But the things that will always resonate

586
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 3: and I'll always remember, like the very first time we

587
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 3: played in Austin, Texas, we didn't even have a dressing room.

588
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 3: We were in the room changing where like the ice

589
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,840
Speaker 3: machines were so people kept coming in and filling up

590
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 3: the ice buckets. But we were changing and there's a

591
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 3: knock on the door and some security guard who didn't

592
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 3: know he goes, hey, there's some guy named Ronnie Lane

593
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 3: out here. He wants to see you. And we were like,

594
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 3: he didn't know who he was, you know, like, fuck me, really, Ronnie.

595
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 3: And we opened the door and there's Ronnie. You know,

596
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 3: he's at the end of his life and m ass

597
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 3: is really debilitating horrible disease. I don't really know any

598
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 3: good diseases. But he was in his wheelchair and his

599
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 3: partner brought him and we were just stunned. And he

600
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 3: said and we were like, well, yeah, mister Lane, lovely

601
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 3: to meet you. And he was like, oh, yeah, you know,

602
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:58,720
Speaker 3: I just wanted to come down here and meet you guys,

603
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 3: you know, because we said so many great things about

604
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 3: my bands and my music, and you know, I just thought, well,

605
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 3: if they're in town, I just want to come over

606
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 3: and say hello. And we were. I mean, my heart

607
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 3: was just like wow, I loved that music. I love

608
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 3: that music. And as I've grown older, I realized, like

609
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 3: that was so special, and you know, and then the

610
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:25,839
Speaker 3: other one I remember is by the time we get

611
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:29,799
Speaker 3: through Atlanta and we come up the East Coast and

612
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,840
Speaker 3: we get to New York, and we played this place

613
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 3: that used to be there called the Cat Club, and

614
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 3: we had played CBGB's as Mister crows Garden, and we

615
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 3: played a place called Drums as Mister Crow's Garden. So we,

616
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:44,359
Speaker 3: you know, if we could get a gig in New York,

617
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 3: we'd drive sixteen hours for one gig, you know, and

618
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 3: we would spend a few days just getting completely out

619
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,839
Speaker 3: of our heads, you know, but not rich, but all

620
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 3: the rest of us. But we're in the same situation.

621
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,359
Speaker 3: We finished the show, we go to the dressing room,

622
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 3: going to change, hit the club, hit the town, you know,

623
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 3: and there's a knock on the door and it's Ian Hunter,

624
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 3: you know, the great one of the great rock and

625
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 3: roll lyricists, great front man, I mean, Matha Hoople his

626
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 3: first solo records, one of my favorite rock and roll

627
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 3: records ever made. I mean, and he there he is.

628
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 3: He's standing there with the Ian Hunter hair. He had

629
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 3: a black velvet. I mean, he looked amazing and he

630
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,839
Speaker 3: was like, all right, see here the Black Crows. I

631
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:28,839
Speaker 3: just wanted to meet you guys, like I haven't heard

632
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 3: a real rock and roll band in a while, and

633
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 3: that was fucking great and stuff. And I was just like,

634
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 3: holy shit, man, Ian Hunter wanted to meet us, you

635
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 3: know what I mean, Like it really, I'll always remember

636
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 3: that because he was like a you know, and he

637
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:46,280
Speaker 3: still is a real hero and one of my favorite.

638
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 3: He wrote great rock and roll lyrics, you know, and

639
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 3: he still does. My brother and I are on his

640
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 3: new record coming out.

641
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,839
Speaker 2: Okay. Under the best of circumstances, being on the road

642
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 2: is hard. They have all the satulation at the show.

643
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,879
Speaker 2: Then you get in the van with same people you've

644
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,799
Speaker 2: known for too many years. Takes hours to come down.

645
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 2: You can't sleep. However, many people start taking drugs to cope,

646
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 2: and many people partake of the fruits of the road.

647
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 2: This was before cell phone cameras, so you are a

648
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 2: bona fide rock start, to what degree are you living

649
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:28,479
Speaker 2: the rock lifestyle of sex and drugs.

650
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:37,399
Speaker 3: Well, to me, I've always the drugs were always far

651
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,280
Speaker 3: more important than casual sex. I mean, let's be honest,

652
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 3: I had priorities. But the Shaker money Maker tour, we're

653
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,839
Speaker 3: so busy and we're still on ten dollars a day.

654
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:51,359
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, by the time we're on tour

655
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 3: with Aerosmith, you know, we're in a tour bus with

656
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 3: a truck and we're opening for Ariosmith and we're making

657
00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 3: five hundred dollars a night. I mean, we're in debt

658
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 3: pretty much until the end of nineteen ninety when the

659
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 3: record starts, you know, really selling big numbers, and then

660
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 3: our of course, our guarantees are going up. So I mean,

661
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 3: the it's still just pretty innocent psychedelics, weed, a lot

662
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 3: of booze, some pills occasionally some coke and stuff. We

663
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 3: and but by the time we know, by the time

664
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 3: all the accounting is done for that record and we've

665
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 3: moved on into the next phase, at least for me

666
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 3: and some of the members in the band, Yeah, we've

667
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,720
Speaker 3: moved on too much. I mean, the booze, the weed,

668
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,399
Speaker 3: the acid, the shrooms. They're all still happening, but we've

669
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 3: really amped it up with like the other sort of

670
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 3: powders and pills and things. Again, you know, it's funny.

671
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess there would be an argument about

672
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,800
Speaker 3: substance abuse, and I've seen it, and we've all lost friends.

673
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,439
Speaker 3: It's and we've lost family members and it's a it's

674
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 3: a real subject matter, and I don't take it lightly.

675
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 3: But during that time also, I you know, to me,

676
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 3: I would say by the end of the nineties, I

677
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:15,319
Speaker 3: was getting to a point where I was kind of like,

678
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 3: I'm really I don't know why my heart is so broken.

679
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 3: I'm really disillusioned, and I'm really depressed, and I think

680
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 3: probably at that point in my life, I'm definitely not

681
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 3: enjoying it. I'm just keeping up with, you know, just

682
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 3: chasing something that probably had eluded me earlier in the decade,

683
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 3: which was just like a derangement of the senses. Is

684
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 3: a powerful tool for the poet, for the artists. My

685
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 3: heroes are, you know, my I have three heroes that

686
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 3: like encompass a lot, sid Barrett Graham Parsons and Alex Chilton.

687
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 3: And then above that, in the archetypes. There's Keith Richards

688
00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 3: and Jerry Garcia. So it's like, I I'm not you know,

689
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 3: I'm not. I'm not trying searching for them. I'm searching

690
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,399
Speaker 3: for there must be something in this, and I did.

691
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 3: I found incredible inspiration. You know. I'm one of those

692
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 3: people who I had a fucking amazing time, you know

693
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:23,759
Speaker 3: what I mean. Like and and I was always the

694
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 3: kind of person always in my mind, I don't have

695
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:31,280
Speaker 3: that Puritan streak, that inebriation or anything like that denotes

696
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 3: weakness or a bad quality in a person, you know

697
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 3: what I mean. Of course, if your subsequent behavior turns

698
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 3: into something negative for the people around you, or if

699
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 3: you're drunk and kill someone, I'm not talking you know

700
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 3: what I mean. I'm just talking about I was also

701
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 3: surrounded in the Black Crows submarine, in the Cult of

702
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 3: the Black Crows, so we were, you know, safely in

703
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 3: our own cocoon in a way, right, And and you know,

704
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 3: especially the early most of the nineteen ninety to nineteen

705
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:16,839
Speaker 3: ninety nine, you know, not everyone is built for the road,

706
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. Like, I've seen a lot

707
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:23,360
Speaker 3: of talented people, really talented people, really sturdy people, solid people,

708
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 3: and they're like, man, I just can't do this. I

709
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,399
Speaker 3: don't want to do this, you know, because it's talk

710
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 3: about a derangement of the senses. I mean, I remember

711
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 3: I didn't know what a panic attack was, you know

712
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 3: what I mean, Who fucking cared when it's nineteen ninety

713
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 3: and you're like, going, you have to get on stage

714
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 3: at the Hammerstein Odium in London and you're like, I've

715
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 3: been I'm I would just go in a hotel and

716
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 3: lay on the floor in my clothes and stare at

717
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 3: the ceiling and hope when I opened my eyes that

718
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 3: I wasn't dead or crazy, you know what I mean.

719
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 3: But that's normal. That was part of it. I mean,

720
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 3: I thought that would just be okay.

721
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 4: So you have a glass of water going to you know,

722
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 4: give yourself a little like all right. And it wasn't

723
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 4: just drugs or alcohols, just the constantly moving, constantly, flying,

724
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 4: constantly on a bus, new hotel, new hotel, do the gig,

725
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 4: geta ring, do the gig.

726
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 3: Do hotel. And like I said, I would never change anything,

727
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 3: and it was I'm but we did have a certain

728
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:25,359
Speaker 3: mentality of and as he Straddling said, you just hang

729
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 3: on for dear life, you know, and luckily, I think

730
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 3: Rich and I have always had this great passion gets

731
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 3: back to the mystery. You know, we've we've felt it

732
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 3: in a way that definitely felt anti authority, but we

733
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:45,319
Speaker 3: also felt like that we had one innate understanding is

734
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 3: that the music business has no soul. It's just business.

735
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,360
Speaker 3: And the only way we could protect something that we

736
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 3: felt was very pure and this thing that we felt

737
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 3: that music gave us that music if we were going

738
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 3: to be a part of this. You know, my record's

739
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 3: in the same record store as the Loneous Monk. My

740
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 3: record's in the same record store is Skip Spence or whatever.

741
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter that there was some you know, not

742
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 3: to repeat myself, but there was something holy about that

743
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 3: as well, and something very deeply involved in natural magic,

744
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 3: and that if we could tap into that and be

745
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:29,560
Speaker 3: a part of that, that we would be very defensive

746
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 3: and very protective of whatever. You know. It's like the

747
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 3: movie Quest for Fire when the guy has the little

748
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 3: fire and the thing and they're trying to save it

749
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:42,319
Speaker 3: from the other people and it like goes out and

750
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:45,799
Speaker 3: they're all like, you know, like we didn't want it

751
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 3: to go out. And no matter what we've been through,

752
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 3: and even on our own, I don't think we've allowed.

753
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 3: I think it's remained that that's a certain purity and

754
00:44:56,160 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 3: a certain I don't know, I think a certain reverence

755
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:04,839
Speaker 3: that we get to make music and be a part

756
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:05,760
Speaker 3: of this vibration.

757
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 2: You know, Okay, Sure, I'm ten dollars a day. You

758
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 2: have this mega successful album, You're on the road constantly.

759
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 2: Are you seeing any money? Are you being ripped off?

760
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 2: Are you blowing the money? Are you banking the money?

761
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 3: I'm it's funny because you're talking to somebody who I

762
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 3: don't really have a relationship with money that would allow

763
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:42,720
Speaker 3: me to give you a solid answer. I'm getting better

764
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:48,880
Speaker 3: as I get older, but part of how I work

765
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:51,880
Speaker 3: and my mind works, and it has been difficult. And

766
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:54,399
Speaker 3: to be honest, I'm sure I've been ripped off. I'm

767
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 3: sure there's been unfair things in my life. I'm sure

768
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:01,799
Speaker 3: I've seen things, uh fall through the cracks and I

769
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 3: didn't even know they were falling, you know what I mean.

770
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 3: It's I can live with that. It was always I

771
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 3: just I and and maybe in my naivete I didn't

772
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 3: want to be a part of that. So If anything,

773
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 3: the great mistake I made was in my laziness, in

774
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 3: my sort of to be blissfully unaware doesn't really isn't

775
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 3: an excuse. I can't say that someone ripped me off.

776
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,320
Speaker 3: I can't say that, but I'm sure within but between

777
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 3: then and there's you know, but I think we you know, also,

778
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 3: we were set up like a real band, like you know,

779
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 3: hey man, the fucking Beatles split everything, you know what

780
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:47,880
Speaker 3: I mean, Like we didn't know about fucking publishing and

781
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 3: fucking partnerships and you know what I mean, we were

782
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:56,640
Speaker 3: really uh, we just we were really focused on the

783
00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 3: on the craft, and then we were focused on building

784
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:02,319
Speaker 3: the culture and the art around the craft. You know.

785
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 3: So I think Rich was probably a little more savvy,

786
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 3: but I would We didn't go to the London School

787
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 3: of Economics.

788
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:13,799
Speaker 2: Well do you still own your publishing and would you

789
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 2: ever sell it?

790
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 3: I did? We do, and yes I would at some point,

791
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:22,759
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, if it seemed like, I mean,

792
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 3: the world has changed so much. You know, when I

793
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 3: got into the business, that was the one cardinal sin

794
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:32,080
Speaker 3: that you would never ever do that, and now that's

795
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:36,520
Speaker 3: really been reversed, and I you know, to me, it

796
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:38,719
Speaker 3: would have to be, you know, we'd have to see

797
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 3: what the circumstance is. And also in my situation, you know,

798
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 3: I have a partner who feels as deeply about all

799
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 3: of this as I do in my brother, and you know,

800
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 3: I think the great gift of this reconciliation is that

801
00:47:56,200 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 3: we're available for each other to to make good decisions,

802
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:05,839
Speaker 3: you know, to make and we're surrounded by people in

803
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:11,759
Speaker 3: our careers that are facilitating good decisions and nurturing our

804
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:19,399
Speaker 3: relationship because you know what, it proves to benefit everyone.

805
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 3: And again, no matter what we've been through, no matter

806
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 3: what the world looks like, no matter how people listen

807
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:26,960
Speaker 3: to their music, no matter blah blah blah, it all

808
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:30,320
Speaker 3: started because Rich and I thought we could write a song.

809
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 2: Okay, So in this thirty years thirty five years of

810
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:39,399
Speaker 2: your fame, have you ever woken up one day and say, fuck,

811
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:41,319
Speaker 2: I'm broke, I gotta go to work, or I got

812
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 2: to sell my house for my car, or has there

813
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 2: always been enough cash there to make it work.

814
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:47,839
Speaker 3: I've sold a house, but I've had to get rid

815
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 3: of a house, you know what I mean. I've I've

816
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:53,240
Speaker 3: had yes, of course, I don't think there's anyone who's

817
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:56,840
Speaker 3: survived a thirty year plus career who can't, you know,

818
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:00,439
Speaker 3: look back at some point and see when things were

819
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 3: threadbare and when things were in full bloom, you know.

820
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:11,920
Speaker 3: But then again, I, you know what, nothing can it's

821
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:18,279
Speaker 3: nothing can touch my Uh yes, that's that's so, That's

822
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:21,799
Speaker 3: something that happens to lots of people. And then there's

823
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:25,880
Speaker 3: other people who are dealing with you know, abject you

824
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 3: know what I mean. So it's like I, I've always

825
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 3: been prepared for whatever fate puts in front of me,

826
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:35,719
Speaker 3: you know, and I want to be I want to

827
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:38,360
Speaker 3: be able to be. I don't want to become so

828
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:46,800
Speaker 3: myopic about uh one thing that I don't see everything else.

829
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:49,319
Speaker 3: You know. Again, as I've gotten older and I have

830
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 3: people around, I make much different decisions and I'm much

831
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:56,279
Speaker 3: more aware of like what the future looks like, you know,

832
00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 3: uh and for the things that I want to accomplish,

833
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:04,239
Speaker 3: wish personally with taking care of my wife as we

834
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:06,839
Speaker 3: get older, and my kids and stuff, you know, like

835
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 3: things like that.

836
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:12,439
Speaker 2: Okay, the reunion, you know, the business is flipped where

837
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:15,960
Speaker 2: now it's about the road and promoters are always looking

838
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 2: for acts to consell tickets. Was the reunion driven by

839
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 2: the promoter? And why did you decide to do it

840
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 2: at this point?

841
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:30,200
Speaker 3: I mean, and nothing is. You have to understand how

842
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 3: crazy rich and I are. Nothing is ever driven by

843
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:36,759
Speaker 3: anyone except how we feel and what we what we

844
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:43,279
Speaker 3: you know, the real It's not like it's not like

845
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 3: you know, yeah you know this. You know when I

846
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:49,800
Speaker 3: blew up the band and said, you know, you guys

847
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 3: want to continue doing this, you give me some more money.

848
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:55,440
Speaker 3: I did that because I knew everyone would fucking shit

849
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:57,479
Speaker 3: a brick and I was never going to get that money.

850
00:50:57,520 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 3: But I did it just to be like, you know,

851
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:02,719
Speaker 3: this is how I'm going to put the brakes on

852
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:05,719
Speaker 3: because I know this will be unacceptable to everyone. But

853
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:09,360
Speaker 3: that next, you know, if that was January first, the

854
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 3: next January first promoted, Hey there's money and if you

855
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 3: guys want to get out there, because like you said,

856
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:19,400
Speaker 3: we're worth something in the marketplace, right, every every little

857
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 3: piece of time, there was offers on the table for

858
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:25,719
Speaker 3: us to get back together. I was happily involved with

859
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 3: my solo group. I wasn't even adjacent to the regular

860
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 3: music business. I was out on my own in the

861
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 3: most DIY independent way I could find having nothing to do.

862
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:39,400
Speaker 3: If I when we started my solo project, the CRB,

863
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:42,880
Speaker 3: if I went to a little club in Santa Cruz, California,

864
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 3: and on that fly or that newspaper, if I even

865
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:47,520
Speaker 3: saw the fucking word black crows, we would pack up

866
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:50,439
Speaker 3: and not even do the soundcheck, you know, And that's

867
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:54,359
Speaker 3: the way I wanted that. But that same time, every

868
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:57,440
Speaker 3: year it's coming up through some source or another. So

869
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:00,520
Speaker 3: you know, again, as I just told you about my

870
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:03,839
Speaker 3: relationship with some things, Rich and I, we're not like

871
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 3: we really do dance to the beat of our own drummer,

872
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 3: and things have to really feel right, and we have

873
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:16,200
Speaker 3: to there's an altruism that just exists Enrich and ize.

874
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 3: It doesn't take away from our ambition, it doesn't take

875
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 3: away from drive or anything we want, but we feel

876
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:31,400
Speaker 3: that way. So you know, after from twenty thirteen to

877
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 3: twenty nineteen and all the things I haven't spoken to

878
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:38,040
Speaker 3: Rich I haven't, you know, it just so happens that

879
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:40,720
Speaker 3: things coalesce in a certain way, and that my wife

880
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:43,600
Speaker 3: opens up my heart and my life and my mind

881
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 3: and my soul to like a lot of new things

882
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 3: and thinking a different way. And getting out of my

883
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 3: own way and the importance of family, and you know,

884
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:56,839
Speaker 3: and I could start to break it down and look

885
00:52:56,880 --> 00:52:59,600
Speaker 3: at things in a different perspective. I could start to

886
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:04,279
Speaker 3: miss rich and feel rich, and you know, and then

887
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:07,000
Speaker 3: what's the itch? You know, Like, our lives as family

888
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 3: are intertwined together because of the music we've made and

889
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 3: the experiences that we've shared, and the laughs that we've

890
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:17,399
Speaker 3: had and the fights that we've had. And you know,

891
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:22,560
Speaker 3: you know, our dad passed away eleven years ago, and

892
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:25,640
Speaker 3: our mom's in Nashville, and you know, she's in her

893
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:28,080
Speaker 3: mid eighties, you know what I mean. So it was

894
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:33,160
Speaker 3: just time for everything to sort of start to heal

895
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:35,279
Speaker 3: itself and come together. I mean, I couldn't have done

896
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:37,759
Speaker 3: that by myself. Again, I'm lucky to have so much

897
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:41,560
Speaker 3: love in my life and stuff. I would tend as

898
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:45,920
Speaker 3: a sagittarian to dig my heels in the dirt and

899
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:47,880
Speaker 3: be very stubborn, you know.

900
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 2: Okay, So why make a record now number one?

901
00:53:55,120 --> 00:54:00,879
Speaker 3: Because no matter what anyone says, thanks buys whatever we

902
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:05,799
Speaker 3: write songs and the mode to us, even though it

903
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:10,040
Speaker 3: might be antiquated or archaic or whatever you want to say,

904
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 3: is I still think that put in your best ten

905
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:18,280
Speaker 3: eleven songs, twelve songs, whatever, wrapping that up into album

906
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 3: is still a viable way to represent where we are

907
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:25,360
Speaker 3: as artists and songwriters that we have the opportunity to

908
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 3: do that still is special and unique. And like I

909
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 3: said a little earlier, that's Rich and ize entrance into

910
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:41,439
Speaker 3: the entire world that is, you know, that we've lived

911
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:45,000
Speaker 3: in for the last three and a half decades. Damnit,

912
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 3: you're cool. It's my dog. Sorry, And of course, given

913
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:54,480
Speaker 3: of course Rich and I are going to write. That's

914
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:56,879
Speaker 3: what we do, that's what we love, you know, And

915
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:01,040
Speaker 3: no matter what's happened, and took me a while because

916
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:03,800
Speaker 3: I wanted to get away from it and do something else.

917
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:06,839
Speaker 3: But you know, when Rich Rich plays Rich can play

918
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:09,000
Speaker 3: me like the very first little thing on a guitar,

919
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:15,560
Speaker 3: and it instantly sets the stage for like emotional content,

920
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:17,880
Speaker 3: for the image and the scene I want to write,

921
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:22,640
Speaker 3: the visual and all that stuff comes together very quickly.

922
00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:28,960
Speaker 3: But the unique part of it is or or again,

923
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:31,400
Speaker 3: to get back to the magic or the mystery of

924
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:34,480
Speaker 3: it is, I don't know. You know, Rich might think

925
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:37,200
Speaker 3: in his mind that song is a love song, or

926
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:40,319
Speaker 3: you know, I don't know. Maybe he thinks this song

927
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:44,440
Speaker 3: of I don't. We don't discuss that. We don't discuss

928
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:47,200
Speaker 3: the idea. Rich plays me something and it and it

929
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:51,400
Speaker 3: inspired and it clicks something in me, and then I

930
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:54,280
Speaker 3: start feeling something and then I start writing and singing.

931
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:57,960
Speaker 3: And we've never discussed it, and I don't think we

932
00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 3: ever will. It's something we do. I tell you this.

933
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:02,480
Speaker 3: We know when we like it, and we know when

934
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:05,839
Speaker 3: something's good, and we know when something's not good. We

935
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:08,600
Speaker 3: know when something needs you know, and we work hard

936
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:11,000
Speaker 3: at that. You know, George du Coulius taught us back

937
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:14,799
Speaker 3: in the eighties. You know, one of our first, our

938
00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:18,160
Speaker 3: first singles, jealous Again from Shaking Moneymaker, And I remember

939
00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:20,759
Speaker 3: I always look at jealous Again as a really important

940
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:26,120
Speaker 3: song because you know, we were a band up until

941
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 3: that point, we were one thing. And then that was

942
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:32,719
Speaker 3: like the first song that that showed up like That's

943
00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:37,319
Speaker 3: how I always referred to it, semi jokingly. That's our

944
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:41,240
Speaker 3: first grown up song we wrote, and that we found

945
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:45,640
Speaker 3: like some stuff that works for us and the griff,

946
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:47,880
Speaker 3: the lyric, the melody that you know, all the things.

947
00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:50,479
Speaker 3: But while we're working on that, you know, we didn't

948
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:53,120
Speaker 3: sit down and write that song in one go. We

949
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:55,879
Speaker 3: would have that song and we you know, George would

950
00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:58,719
Speaker 3: be in Atlanta, but he was still he was A

951
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:01,080
Speaker 3: and R and A and Records in New York, so

952
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:03,359
Speaker 3: we was still living in New York. So we would

953
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:06,280
Speaker 3: you know, I have a little you know, boom box

954
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:08,839
Speaker 3: in our room and we would with the condensed mic

955
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:11,840
Speaker 3: and the cassette, we would record what we were working

956
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:14,080
Speaker 3: on and jealous again, well I will. It's just a

957
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 3: great example of you know, we'd be like, yeah, this

958
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:17,880
Speaker 3: is this is good, and then we'd send it to

959
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 3: him and get on the phone when he got to

960
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:22,280
Speaker 3: be like, that's pretty good, but maybe you should get

961
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:24,560
Speaker 3: back in there, and we'd go fuck and we'd get

962
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:27,000
Speaker 3: in there and then maybe we had another little bit

963
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 3: pretty good, but it's not dood, you know. So he

964
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 3: instilled in us this work ethic of leaving no stone

965
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:36,840
Speaker 3: unturned but also trusting your you know, it wasn't like

966
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 3: we we don't. We don't. We won't suffer to go

967
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:44,640
Speaker 3: down the road of something we know isn't feeling good

968
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:49,800
Speaker 3: to us. We're not mathematician musicians, we don't we're not

969
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:54,560
Speaker 3: formulaic in that way. I mean, yes, in the verse chorus,

970
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:57,959
Speaker 3: versus chorus, solo kind of out that kind of shit,

971
00:57:58,040 --> 00:58:00,840
Speaker 3: but not in the way that we get from point

972
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 3: A to point b as songwriters. It's all visceral. It's

973
00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:08,200
Speaker 3: all feeling, and it's all kind of you know, it's

974
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:10,919
Speaker 3: an overused word, but it's for us. It's a vibe thing.

975
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 3: It's vibe.

976
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:16,680
Speaker 2: Okay. So when do you guys start writing songs you

977
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:20,720
Speaker 2: reunite prior to COVID is it something you've been doing

978
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:23,320
Speaker 2: for years or you said, listen, it's time to make

979
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:23,840
Speaker 2: a record.

980
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:26,960
Speaker 3: No, I mean, because we didn't speak from you know,

981
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 3: twenty thirteen to twenty nineteen so or twenty fourteen, whenever

982
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:36,479
Speaker 3: that tour was over, not that we spoke that much.

983
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:39,480
Speaker 3: You know, Rich is just like I am. I'm constantly.

984
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 3: I mean, I wrote hundreds of songs for my solo project.

985
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 3: He was doing his. But wow, when this starts to

986
00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 3: come about, you know, he's got riffs, he's got pieces,

987
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:55,160
Speaker 3: he's got ideas, and I always have ideas and I

988
00:58:55,200 --> 00:58:57,720
Speaker 3: have my little lyric pieces and stuff. I mean, I

989
00:58:57,720 --> 00:59:01,320
Speaker 3: think one of the the other things that makes this record,

990
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:06,240
Speaker 3: our new record, so powerful is we really went, you know,

991
00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:08,120
Speaker 3: as the years went by and we get into the

992
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:12,360
Speaker 3: two thousands, I'm bringing a song occasionally. We're continuing to

993
00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:15,600
Speaker 3: write together, but Rich'll have one by himself that he

994
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:17,920
Speaker 3: wrote the lyrics and singings and not you know what

995
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:19,840
Speaker 3: I mean. We have we're starting to move into that,

996
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:23,560
Speaker 3: but for this I felt, you know, I mean, I

997
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:26,280
Speaker 3: haven't picked up a guitar since this started, you know

998
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:27,800
Speaker 3: what I mean. And I was playing guitar in the

999
00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:30,880
Speaker 3: Black Crows at the end of the last thing, and

1000
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:33,160
Speaker 3: I was like, I want to get back to what

1001
00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:37,800
Speaker 3: I feel is really the pure thing of the Black Crows,

1002
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:41,080
Speaker 3: you know, and that's Rich And I was writing and

1003
00:59:41,120 --> 00:59:43,680
Speaker 3: then for me to get on stage and be the

1004
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 3: front man, because I think the front the type of

1005
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:51,240
Speaker 3: performer that I am is also something kind of of

1006
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:56,520
Speaker 3: the past. So while I am available to do it,

1007
00:59:56,600 --> 00:59:58,680
Speaker 3: I want to do it in a way that I

1008
00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 3: feel excited about, you know. And I want to get

1009
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:06,480
Speaker 3: up there and do the thing that I think maybe

1010
01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:09,280
Speaker 3: makes me different from the other singers as well. You know.

1011
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:14,480
Speaker 2: Okay, how do you literally do it? You have Elton John,

1012
01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:19,120
Speaker 2: Bernie Topping. Bernie Topin writes lyrics one place he Gizzendale

1013
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:22,400
Speaker 2: now works on the piano. He's got a song. There

1014
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:25,960
Speaker 2: are certainly people who say, not so much recently, I'm

1015
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 2: in cycle. I got to deliver an album. I'm going

1016
01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 2: to write now, so I record. There are other people

1017
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:35,960
Speaker 2: say I'm waiting for inspiration. In Nashville, they literally have

1018
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:39,440
Speaker 2: songwriting sessions. What happens with you?

1019
01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:43,480
Speaker 3: None of that applies to us. I'm constantly inspired by

1020
01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:46,880
Speaker 3: everything going around me. My imagination is working in overtime

1021
01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:52,040
Speaker 3: at all times. I live breathed music, and you know,

1022
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:56,600
Speaker 3: everything around me has the possibility of being beautiful. You know,

1023
01:00:56,920 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 3: I've hate in a weird way. And because we are

1024
01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:03,320
Speaker 3: record company, because the Black Crows are Silver Arrow Records,

1025
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:06,120
Speaker 3: there's and we don't take big advance. We didn't take

1026
01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:09,040
Speaker 3: an advance, you know what I mean. That shit's gone

1027
01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:11,960
Speaker 3: and that's kind of the best part of the modern thing.

1028
01:01:12,080 --> 01:01:19,880
Speaker 3: I think there's too much sort of I'm glad everyone

1029
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:22,600
Speaker 3: has access for but not everything is interesting and not

1030
01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:25,400
Speaker 3: everything is good. You know, that idea that I was saying,

1031
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:27,560
Speaker 3: that George pushed us to work and work and work

1032
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:31,000
Speaker 3: and work, is why that record resonated at a certain

1033
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:35,920
Speaker 3: frequency with people right and and if you know, if

1034
01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:39,480
Speaker 3: nineteen eighty nine was today, maybe those songs that we

1035
01:01:39,560 --> 01:01:42,440
Speaker 3: didn't didn't make better would be the ones that are

1036
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:44,720
Speaker 3: out there, you know what I mean. And I know

1037
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:47,640
Speaker 3: that sounds old fashion or whatever, but I believe in

1038
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:50,400
Speaker 3: the craft, and I believe in hard work. Is the

1039
01:01:50,480 --> 01:01:54,920
Speaker 3: difference between something that's okay and something that could be

1040
01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:56,360
Speaker 3: on the verge of greatness.

1041
01:01:56,800 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 2: Okay, let's get a little more granular. Your brother sent

1042
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:02,760
Speaker 2: who will file, or he comes to your house and

1043
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:03,720
Speaker 2: plays the guitar.

1044
01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:10,760
Speaker 3: We do both. I mean during COVID. During COVID, we

1045
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 3: obviously couldn't be together. He was in Nashville and I

1046
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 3: was living in northern California in West Marine County. Just

1047
01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:19,080
Speaker 3: so happened that my neighbor had a really nice little

1048
01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:25,320
Speaker 3: home studio in his in his place there, so Rich

1049
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:28,840
Speaker 3: could send the files I could work on them. Hold

1050
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:34,600
Speaker 3: on a second, bam, Hey, sorry, my Jamaican street dog.

1051
01:02:34,680 --> 01:02:40,800
Speaker 3: That's the mind of her own, believe it or not. Ideally,

1052
01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:43,600
Speaker 3: it's better when Rich and I are in a room

1053
01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:50,240
Speaker 3: because we have a psychic I don't know if it's

1054
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:53,440
Speaker 3: obviously it's because we're related, but maybe some of it

1055
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:58,080
Speaker 3: is something else. But we can do things you know

1056
01:02:58,680 --> 01:03:02,480
Speaker 3: on the you know, sin me stuff, But it seems

1057
01:03:02,520 --> 01:03:06,520
Speaker 3: like all the details and all the important stuff gets

1058
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:07,720
Speaker 3: done in a room together.

1059
01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:17,040
Speaker 2: How do you end up using gay Joys?

1060
01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:23,920
Speaker 3: Uh? Well, Jay, you know, we had a short list

1061
01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:28,920
Speaker 3: of very talented, amazing producers, and we had great, great

1062
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:31,600
Speaker 3: meetings and we I mean it was like it was

1063
01:03:32,200 --> 01:03:34,120
Speaker 3: it was kind of cool to be the bell of

1064
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:36,000
Speaker 3: the ball, you know what I mean. We were like

1065
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:41,560
Speaker 3: and again there was just some vibe with Jay that

1066
01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:45,760
Speaker 3: was super cool, and I really felt in our initial

1067
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:51,560
Speaker 3: conversation that he understood a little bit about about what

1068
01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:53,600
Speaker 3: we were trying to do. I mean, you know, we

1069
01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:57,640
Speaker 3: we we knew Rich and I had conceptualized making a

1070
01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:02,600
Speaker 3: very up tempo energy a rock record, you know. I mean,

1071
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:05,280
Speaker 3: I think that was the playing Shake Your money Maker

1072
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:07,600
Speaker 3: every night for two years. I realized, like, wow, that's

1073
01:04:07,640 --> 01:04:10,600
Speaker 3: what we did then, and would be cool to continue

1074
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:14,920
Speaker 3: this next part of whatever we are or whatever we're

1075
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:19,040
Speaker 3: going to be in the same manner, not revisiting anything,

1076
01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:23,600
Speaker 3: not going back in time, not plagiarizing ourselves. But we

1077
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:28,920
Speaker 3: want that energy of like you know that that's what

1078
01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:31,720
Speaker 3: fuels rock and roll. I want it to almost be

1079
01:04:32,200 --> 01:04:34,600
Speaker 3: falling off the track, you know what I mean, Like

1080
01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:38,360
Speaker 3: we want it to be rough. And you know, in

1081
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:40,840
Speaker 3: the same way that when we go when we've done

1082
01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:43,920
Speaker 3: the touring, not in just the past, but in the

1083
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:46,600
Speaker 3: recent past since we've got back together. I mean, I

1084
01:04:46,640 --> 01:04:49,040
Speaker 3: don't know how many concerts you go see, but most

1085
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:54,040
Speaker 3: bands today don't even use amps. They put digital referencing

1086
01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:56,960
Speaker 3: their guitars through the PA and it's very quiet on

1087
01:04:57,040 --> 01:05:00,840
Speaker 3: stage and everyone has inner monitors and and we don't

1088
01:05:00,840 --> 01:05:07,160
Speaker 3: do that. We are chaos machines on stage. There's sound moving,

1089
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:11,080
Speaker 3: there's ams blowing sound and monitors and no thing in

1090
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:15,640
Speaker 3: our ears, and it's just a lot that's more alive

1091
01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:18,240
Speaker 3: to us as well. And we need that for the

1092
01:05:18,320 --> 01:05:23,880
Speaker 3: kind of you know, we need that to set the

1093
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:26,080
Speaker 3: scene we want to set, you know, I mean, we

1094
01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:28,800
Speaker 3: believe in that. Still we were that way, you know,

1095
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:33,560
Speaker 3: we were the first band. I remember by the time

1096
01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:36,040
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety two comes around, people from other bands would

1097
01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:38,080
Speaker 3: see us and they're like, you guys don't have Chordlet

1098
01:05:38,160 --> 01:05:40,720
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, We had chords attached to

1099
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:43,200
Speaker 3: everything and we were trying to go you know what

1100
01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:47,840
Speaker 3: I mean, we've always been and not on any sort

1101
01:05:47,880 --> 01:05:52,360
Speaker 3: of agenda. We've just always kind of been the opposite

1102
01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:56,080
Speaker 3: of whatever's going on. You know, that's probably the definition

1103
01:05:56,160 --> 01:05:56,880
Speaker 3: of dyslexia.

1104
01:05:56,920 --> 01:05:59,280
Speaker 2: I think, Okay, how's your hearing?

1105
01:06:00,440 --> 01:06:02,200
Speaker 3: I mean, my hearing is pretty good. Knock on wind.

1106
01:06:03,800 --> 01:06:06,760
Speaker 3: I hear all the high end stuff I hear. You know.

1107
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:11,920
Speaker 3: I work still in the studio and we're fucking loud.

1108
01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:15,400
Speaker 3: But I you know, when I'm in a crowded restaurant

1109
01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:17,960
Speaker 3: and it's like a den of noise everywhere, I'll be like,

1110
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:22,000
Speaker 3: what did you say? You know, but our hearings, my

1111
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:26,880
Speaker 3: hearing's good, you know what I mean. I'm okay.

1112
01:06:26,920 --> 01:06:28,960
Speaker 2: So what is j at in the studio?

1113
01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:37,240
Speaker 3: Jay is a person who well, number one, he's very

1114
01:06:37,240 --> 01:06:40,160
Speaker 3: easygoing guy, you know, and you work. We were working

1115
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:43,680
Speaker 3: at Neon Cross his studio in Nashville. So he's completely

1116
01:06:43,720 --> 01:06:48,439
Speaker 3: dialed in in a technological way, in an engineering way,

1117
01:06:48,520 --> 01:06:50,400
Speaker 3: and he has like a team of It's like, you know,

1118
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:52,720
Speaker 3: I've never been in a recording session and like if

1119
01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:55,360
Speaker 3: you break a string, it's like a NASCAR pit crew.

1120
01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:58,520
Speaker 3: There's like three guys over there and everybody's like, you know,

1121
01:06:58,600 --> 01:07:04,360
Speaker 3: on the clock, you know. But and I imagine Jay

1122
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:08,600
Speaker 3: adjusts to the different temperaments and attitudes of whatever artist

1123
01:07:08,680 --> 01:07:13,040
Speaker 3: he's working with. But for us, you know, like I

1124
01:07:13,040 --> 01:07:16,520
Speaker 3: think Rich really felt heard and he got to express

1125
01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:19,800
Speaker 3: his ideas. I'm the way I am as you can tell,

1126
01:07:19,880 --> 01:07:24,040
Speaker 3: I'm like a little more like what about that? My

1127
01:07:24,320 --> 01:07:29,480
Speaker 3: information comes really fast and Jay's kind of in the middle.

1128
01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:35,920
Speaker 3: So it was a really good tempo, you know, to work.

1129
01:07:36,080 --> 01:07:40,000
Speaker 3: And I think Jay also brought a real discerning ear

1130
01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:45,640
Speaker 3: to helping sort of pick the material out of the

1131
01:07:46,360 --> 01:07:49,480
Speaker 3: lot of songs we had. I mean, I think by

1132
01:07:49,520 --> 01:07:51,840
Speaker 3: the time we were with Jay, we've kind of narrowed

1133
01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:55,360
Speaker 3: it down to eighteen twenty things, and then by the

1134
01:07:55,400 --> 01:07:57,880
Speaker 3: time we're get to the studio, we've narrowed it down

1135
01:07:57,880 --> 01:08:00,760
Speaker 3: to twelve things. And by the time we finished the

1136
01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:03,280
Speaker 3: record in two and a half weeks, and then it's like, okay,

1137
01:08:03,320 --> 01:08:05,640
Speaker 3: this is like a real record and it's gonna be

1138
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:07,600
Speaker 3: ten songs, you know.

1139
01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:11,760
Speaker 2: Okay. Also, Jay is a songwriter, not only a producer.

1140
01:08:12,200 --> 01:08:15,720
Speaker 2: So what degree did he change the songs.

1141
01:08:16,120 --> 01:08:19,000
Speaker 3: I don't think he'd changed the songs that much. I

1142
01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:25,320
Speaker 3: think he added some musical architecture, maybe that rich and

1143
01:08:25,360 --> 01:08:28,120
Speaker 3: I wouldn't. I don't. I don't. I wouldn't say they

1144
01:08:28,120 --> 01:08:30,680
Speaker 3: were compositional in that way, but I would say he

1145
01:08:31,360 --> 01:08:33,040
Speaker 3: But you know what, that was a good thing too,

1146
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:35,840
Speaker 3: because he pushed us into like, well, maybe you could

1147
01:08:35,880 --> 01:08:38,040
Speaker 3: have something a little more in that than just what

1148
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:42,400
Speaker 3: you're doing. Maybe there's something musical there, maybe there, you

1149
01:08:42,479 --> 01:08:45,439
Speaker 3: know what I mean. Maybe, And I think it's very

1150
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:48,639
Speaker 3: sophisticated what he does, but it's very natural to him.

1151
01:08:49,560 --> 01:08:53,640
Speaker 3: And that was and he you know, he can he

1152
01:08:53,680 --> 01:08:56,759
Speaker 3: plays guitar, some little bit of guitar. Here's keyboards there.

1153
01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:01,240
Speaker 3: So I think because of his knowledge, it really it's

1154
01:09:01,240 --> 01:09:04,439
Speaker 3: not like he's just sitting behind a board. He's really

1155
01:09:04,479 --> 01:09:07,200
Speaker 3: a part of what's going on in the musical language

1156
01:09:07,240 --> 01:09:14,080
Speaker 3: of it. And I and again, you know, it's nice

1157
01:09:14,120 --> 01:09:18,439
Speaker 3: that the dynamic works out so easy because you know,

1158
01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:24,920
Speaker 3: it's I part of our us versus them, especially in

1159
01:09:24,960 --> 01:09:28,559
Speaker 3: the first decade of the band with not being able

1160
01:09:28,600 --> 01:09:33,160
Speaker 3: to really trust people there. You know, I always thought,

1161
01:09:33,160 --> 01:09:36,240
Speaker 3: I mean my thing forever was if somebody from the

1162
01:09:36,240 --> 01:09:38,280
Speaker 3: record company told me anything, I'd be like, why the

1163
01:09:38,320 --> 01:09:41,000
Speaker 3: fuck would I listen to you? Man? I mean, you

1164
01:09:41,160 --> 01:09:46,040
Speaker 3: have thirty bands on your roster forty bands, fifty bands,

1165
01:09:46,439 --> 01:09:50,320
Speaker 3: I have one band, I'll if any And what's the

1166
01:09:50,400 --> 01:09:52,960
Speaker 3: answer from the guy from the record company. You're making

1167
01:09:52,960 --> 01:09:55,960
Speaker 3: a big mistake. I said, well, that's my fucking mistake

1168
01:09:56,000 --> 01:09:57,639
Speaker 3: to make, not yours, do you know what I mean?

1169
01:09:57,760 --> 01:10:01,240
Speaker 3: That's that's kind of it. Sounds like we were being

1170
01:10:01,320 --> 01:10:04,480
Speaker 3: like horrible, But I thought there was a real pragmatism

1171
01:10:04,520 --> 01:10:06,479
Speaker 3: to that in terms of what I could live with

1172
01:10:07,280 --> 01:10:09,360
Speaker 3: down the road, you know, and what I'm the one

1173
01:10:09,400 --> 01:10:11,680
Speaker 3: who has to live with the album, not you. You'll go

1174
01:10:11,800 --> 01:10:14,439
Speaker 3: on to the next thing and the next thing, and

1175
01:10:14,479 --> 01:10:17,120
Speaker 3: you'll drop the you'll drop the band that didn't meet

1176
01:10:17,200 --> 01:10:27,040
Speaker 3: those financial expectations, those commercial expectations, and so that I again,

1177
01:10:27,600 --> 01:10:29,720
Speaker 3: I was there was nothing about me, you know. I

1178
01:10:29,800 --> 01:10:33,000
Speaker 3: always hate like you see like these I hate. I

1179
01:10:33,000 --> 01:10:35,400
Speaker 3: shouldn't say. I just don't understand. When you see like

1180
01:10:35,439 --> 01:10:38,479
Speaker 3: a documentary about a metal band or something, they're like,

1181
01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:40,639
Speaker 3: I mean, and then when their careers are going down,

1182
01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:42,519
Speaker 3: they're like, it's like the label didn't even care what

1183
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:45,720
Speaker 3: we did. I'm like, why would you think they ever

1184
01:10:45,760 --> 01:10:48,519
Speaker 3: gave a shit? What are they your cousin? You know

1185
01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:52,120
Speaker 3: what I mean? I knew one thing when I when

1186
01:10:52,160 --> 01:10:55,280
Speaker 3: I started in the bit, when we were we were

1187
01:10:55,400 --> 01:10:57,920
Speaker 3: outside the business, and then you're making when you're only

1188
01:10:57,960 --> 01:11:00,639
Speaker 3: in the music business, when you're making the music businesiness money.

1189
01:11:01,160 --> 01:11:03,759
Speaker 3: Now you're in the music business, right. I mean it's

1190
01:11:03,800 --> 01:11:08,920
Speaker 3: oversimplifying things, but but I was always like, yeah, you

1191
01:11:09,120 --> 01:11:12,280
Speaker 3: think these this is a real conversation. I'm not having

1192
01:11:12,320 --> 01:11:16,479
Speaker 3: a real conversation. This is like, uh, this is a

1193
01:11:16,520 --> 01:11:20,800
Speaker 3: made up conversation. These are pleasantries, you know what I mean.

1194
01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:23,400
Speaker 3: They love the record that sold the most. They don't

1195
01:11:23,439 --> 01:11:25,280
Speaker 3: care what it sounds like, what it looked like, what

1196
01:11:25,320 --> 01:11:28,160
Speaker 3: it is anything, you know what I mean. And I'm

1197
01:11:28,160 --> 01:11:30,720
Speaker 3: just not like that. I wanted. I wanted. I want

1198
01:11:30,720 --> 01:11:32,799
Speaker 3: to sell a lot of records. I want to be popular,

1199
01:11:32,960 --> 01:11:35,000
Speaker 3: but I'm not going to be something. I'm not for

1200
01:11:35,080 --> 01:11:37,800
Speaker 3: someone else to do it. And that still is kind

1201
01:11:37,800 --> 01:11:38,559
Speaker 3: of strong with us.

1202
01:11:39,080 --> 01:11:41,439
Speaker 2: Told me about a couple of arguments you had with

1203
01:11:41,560 --> 01:11:42,400
Speaker 2: the label.

1204
01:11:46,280 --> 01:11:48,679
Speaker 3: The way. It's funny because you know, you know Mark

1205
01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:51,719
Speaker 3: to do he was he was the one. It wasn't

1206
01:11:51,720 --> 01:11:54,120
Speaker 3: an argument. But I was always mad that when our

1207
01:11:54,160 --> 01:11:57,240
Speaker 3: third record of Marca came out, everyone was looking for

1208
01:11:57,280 --> 01:12:01,120
Speaker 3: the big chorus, this is like the grunge like it's

1209
01:12:01,160 --> 01:12:06,320
Speaker 3: the avalanche of grunge. It's the flannel avalanche culturally, and

1210
01:12:06,479 --> 01:12:10,160
Speaker 3: I thought that the one written so A Conspiracy is

1211
01:12:10,160 --> 01:12:12,160
Speaker 3: a song that's the first single on that record. And

1212
01:12:12,240 --> 01:12:15,400
Speaker 3: I was furious because the album starts with a track

1213
01:12:15,479 --> 01:12:19,160
Speaker 3: called Gone, and that was my manifesto to be a

1214
01:12:19,200 --> 01:12:22,280
Speaker 3: part of like the same sort of I don't know,

1215
01:12:22,479 --> 01:12:28,400
Speaker 3: heroin chic or whatever. I just thought that culturally politically,

1216
01:12:28,439 --> 01:12:31,759
Speaker 3: that was the track we lead with, and and and

1217
01:12:31,960 --> 01:12:34,639
Speaker 3: you know, that was one of those things that like Nope, nope,

1218
01:12:34,720 --> 01:12:38,200
Speaker 3: you're wrong. And then then I always thought A Conspiracy

1219
01:12:38,280 --> 01:12:41,719
Speaker 3: was a weak single. Uh, that would be like an argument.

1220
01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:49,160
Speaker 3: I mean we've made whole records that were and we

1221
01:12:49,200 --> 01:12:53,719
Speaker 3: make a record before a Marca that we called Tall,

1222
01:12:56,280 --> 01:12:59,960
Speaker 3: and that record was just no, no, it's doesn't sound

1223
01:13:00,000 --> 01:13:02,519
Speaker 3: I'm like you you know, and I would be like,

1224
01:13:02,840 --> 01:13:05,439
Speaker 3: you know, there's no big guitar riffs, there's none of that,

1225
01:13:05,800 --> 01:13:08,360
Speaker 3: and that would like infuriate me. But then that would

1226
01:13:08,400 --> 01:13:13,320
Speaker 3: like people around also would be like, oh, get to

1227
01:13:13,479 --> 01:13:16,640
Speaker 3: Rich and say, hey, you know, your brother, you know,

1228
01:13:16,760 --> 01:13:22,559
Speaker 3: that doesn't sound like remedy or whatever. You know, and

1229
01:13:22,560 --> 01:13:26,679
Speaker 3: on things like, oh, Columbia Records was a fucking nightmare.

1230
01:13:27,080 --> 01:13:31,000
Speaker 3: People like Donnie Heiner, you know, fucking go to his

1231
01:13:31,160 --> 01:13:34,240
Speaker 3: fucking office. Here he is living this giant like this

1232
01:13:34,320 --> 01:13:36,679
Speaker 3: is the ship. I'm happy he's gone in the music business.

1233
01:13:37,080 --> 01:13:40,600
Speaker 3: Don Heiner in his big office and his fucking hovercraft

1234
01:13:40,640 --> 01:13:42,760
Speaker 3: and his helicopter and all that bullshit. You know what

1235
01:13:42,800 --> 01:13:45,600
Speaker 3: I mean? Fuck you, man, who the fuck are you?

1236
01:13:45,640 --> 01:13:48,519
Speaker 3: What do you know about anything? You'd be selling fucking

1237
01:13:48,640 --> 01:13:51,400
Speaker 3: of admits or fucking snow tires or something. He didn't

1238
01:13:51,400 --> 01:13:53,400
Speaker 3: give them. Fuck well, you're going to talk to artists

1239
01:13:53,439 --> 01:13:58,840
Speaker 3: like this, and uh, you know I remember they were

1240
01:13:58,840 --> 01:14:01,559
Speaker 3: like you should he like, you should cover a rocks

1241
01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:04,960
Speaker 3: Off by Primal Scream. I was like, they're fucking copying me.

1242
01:14:05,200 --> 01:14:08,880
Speaker 3: I'm not kidding. Have you heard it? You know it's

1243
01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:11,080
Speaker 3: a cool song or whatever, good for Primal Scream. But

1244
01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:14,000
Speaker 3: I'm like, man, you didn't fucking you didn't get the

1245
01:14:14,040 --> 01:14:16,160
Speaker 3: memo about the Black Crows, did you? You know what

1246
01:14:16,200 --> 01:14:19,439
Speaker 3: I mean? Like, so shit like that would be like

1247
01:14:20,520 --> 01:14:23,040
Speaker 3: just make me infuriated, you know what I mean? Like

1248
01:14:23,080 --> 01:14:26,320
Speaker 3: why am I? Why am I in this guy's office?

1249
01:14:26,520 --> 01:14:28,040
Speaker 3: You know what I mean, why am I sitting here

1250
01:14:28,439 --> 01:14:31,280
Speaker 3: with his fucking babe ruth baseball bat or whatever the

1251
01:14:31,320 --> 01:14:33,160
Speaker 3: fuck he had on the wall, you know what I mean.

1252
01:14:33,800 --> 01:14:36,000
Speaker 3: I was like, I want to, I want to I

1253
01:14:36,040 --> 01:14:38,400
Speaker 3: want to be backstage with George Clinton right now.

1254
01:14:39,960 --> 01:14:43,960
Speaker 2: Okay, were your manager and each and other people on

1255
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:46,439
Speaker 2: your side or they were taking the label song.

1256
01:14:47,240 --> 01:14:49,559
Speaker 3: I think they were taking that how can we get

1257
01:14:49,600 --> 01:14:53,479
Speaker 3: the most cash out of this side? And you and

1258
01:14:53,600 --> 01:15:01,320
Speaker 3: we were just you know, we were just whatever, you

1259
01:15:01,400 --> 01:15:04,760
Speaker 3: know what I mean, And that's leaping I do. Yeah, Yeah,

1260
01:15:04,800 --> 01:15:08,720
Speaker 3: that's that's no fault. That's just the way it was.

1261
01:15:09,560 --> 01:15:11,519
Speaker 3: If it was anyone's fault, it's me and for me

1262
01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:15,160
Speaker 3: and rich not being sort of area died enough to

1263
01:15:15,560 --> 01:15:21,920
Speaker 3: you know, make changes or choices or you know what

1264
01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:22,240
Speaker 3: I mean.

1265
01:15:22,680 --> 01:15:24,320
Speaker 2: But I think that was kind of the.

1266
01:15:24,200 --> 01:15:31,679
Speaker 3: Nature of I think that's just the nature of of

1267
01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:34,800
Speaker 3: course of the business. We've seen that greed and avarice

1268
01:15:34,880 --> 01:15:37,840
Speaker 3: sort of you know, and I say all the time,

1269
01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:43,519
Speaker 3: like we where we are like today I was telling

1270
01:15:43,560 --> 01:15:46,439
Speaker 3: you is like I think we feel so taken care

1271
01:15:46,520 --> 01:15:49,599
Speaker 3: of and you know, I mean, you know, we've known

1272
01:15:49,680 --> 01:15:52,639
Speaker 3: marked idea. It's been managing us now since twenty nineteen,

1273
01:15:52,680 --> 01:15:55,479
Speaker 3: since nineteen eighty nine when we were marched into his

1274
01:15:55,560 --> 01:15:59,000
Speaker 3: office when he was the radio guy at Geffen, like

1275
01:15:59,439 --> 01:16:01,400
Speaker 3: who are these kids? They? Who are you? And we

1276
01:16:01,520 --> 01:16:05,439
Speaker 3: hit it off and we had a relationship, and you know,

1277
01:16:05,520 --> 01:16:08,360
Speaker 3: we there's none of our success from that day without

1278
01:16:08,439 --> 01:16:10,519
Speaker 3: someone like Mark Deda, you know what I mean. So,

1279
01:16:10,880 --> 01:16:13,880
Speaker 3: but now because we're all grown ups and we've gone

1280
01:16:13,880 --> 01:16:15,360
Speaker 3: through it, we've gone through we can be in a

1281
01:16:15,439 --> 01:16:19,640
Speaker 3: much easier working environment. And you know what where a

1282
01:16:19,680 --> 01:16:22,920
Speaker 3: lot Mark's been through it too, all the things that

1283
01:16:23,040 --> 01:16:26,439
Speaker 3: acts he's managed, the labels he's run, and you know,

1284
01:16:26,520 --> 01:16:31,280
Speaker 3: he's a warrior of the music business past, present and future.

1285
01:16:32,040 --> 01:16:36,200
Speaker 3: And it allows Rich and I also to make better decisions,

1286
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:37,920
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, because we don't. We feel

1287
01:16:37,960 --> 01:16:40,160
Speaker 3: there's a level of trust and we feel there's a

1288
01:16:40,240 --> 01:16:44,200
Speaker 3: level of understanding, you know, but that goes with our

1289
01:16:44,360 --> 01:16:47,240
Speaker 3: with everyone around us. You know, that goes to our

1290
01:16:48,280 --> 01:16:51,360
Speaker 3: our lawyer, that goes to our agents, and you know

1291
01:16:51,400 --> 01:16:53,880
Speaker 3: what I mean, that goes down to the how we

1292
01:16:53,920 --> 01:16:56,680
Speaker 3: want to go about merch deal or whatever. You know

1293
01:16:56,680 --> 01:17:01,080
Speaker 3: what I mean. So I think Rich and I are

1294
01:17:01,160 --> 01:17:04,200
Speaker 3: far more savvy as well in terms of being able

1295
01:17:04,240 --> 01:17:07,719
Speaker 3: to negotiate some of the murky waters.

1296
01:17:08,880 --> 01:17:11,160
Speaker 2: So how does Leanie Wilson end up on this record?

1297
01:17:12,400 --> 01:17:18,920
Speaker 3: Because we become out of sheer her sheer kindness. We

1298
01:17:18,960 --> 01:17:23,400
Speaker 3: went we played the CMTS last year and this is

1299
01:17:23,439 --> 01:17:29,000
Speaker 3: even before Jay was on board, and uh, just out

1300
01:17:29,000 --> 01:17:35,600
Speaker 3: of completely random placement, Camille and I went to do

1301
01:17:35,680 --> 01:17:39,200
Speaker 3: the red carpet and you know, you get out of

1302
01:17:39,240 --> 01:17:41,760
Speaker 3: the thing and there's Lani's right there and she's like

1303
01:17:42,600 --> 01:17:45,040
Speaker 3: she entered. We were just she was just very nice,

1304
01:17:45,760 --> 01:17:48,120
Speaker 3: and you know, she's like, I'm from a small town.

1305
01:17:48,360 --> 01:17:50,519
Speaker 3: I grew up listening to the Black Crows. And we

1306
01:17:50,600 --> 01:17:54,200
Speaker 3: got to just meet for a few uh seconds and

1307
01:17:54,320 --> 01:17:56,720
Speaker 3: talk a little bit, and then you know, she went

1308
01:17:56,840 --> 01:17:59,880
Speaker 3: down the line doing her press and just was like

1309
01:18:00,280 --> 01:18:02,240
Speaker 3: said really nice things like, oh my god, I met

1310
01:18:02,360 --> 01:18:05,880
Speaker 3: you know, Chris Robinson. Oh, and then we end up

1311
01:18:05,920 --> 01:18:09,040
Speaker 3: with Jay and then we have this song and then

1312
01:18:09,080 --> 01:18:12,200
Speaker 3: it just kind of comes together and Jay's like, I

1313
01:18:12,240 --> 01:18:15,439
Speaker 3: think she Laney would be amazing on this, and we

1314
01:18:15,479 --> 01:18:20,080
Speaker 3: were like, I mean, Lane's amazing on everything she's doing,

1315
01:18:20,160 --> 01:18:23,800
Speaker 3: so's if she wants to do it, of course, let's

1316
01:18:23,800 --> 01:18:26,479
Speaker 3: do it. And you know it's kind of really the

1317
01:18:26,520 --> 01:18:28,840
Speaker 3: way things happen like that, it's very easy. I mean,

1318
01:18:28,840 --> 01:18:32,720
Speaker 3: it's not like we're releasing a duet country single at

1319
01:18:32,720 --> 01:18:34,639
Speaker 3: country rating, you know what I mean. It's way more

1320
01:18:34,720 --> 01:18:38,320
Speaker 3: casual and way more organic than something like that. So

1321
01:18:38,520 --> 01:18:41,080
Speaker 3: things just fall in your lap in the best way sometimes.

1322
01:18:41,479 --> 01:18:44,160
Speaker 2: Okay, you grew up with a father who's very into

1323
01:18:44,240 --> 01:18:47,720
Speaker 2: the music, has classic blues records. What do you think

1324
01:18:47,760 --> 01:18:49,320
Speaker 2: about today's country music?

1325
01:18:50,400 --> 01:18:52,960
Speaker 3: Well, I think, like anything else, it's not just one thing.

1326
01:18:54,200 --> 01:18:56,880
Speaker 3: You know, it's not just one thing. And you know,

1327
01:18:56,960 --> 01:18:59,080
Speaker 3: I think when you see Luke Combs and you see

1328
01:18:59,160 --> 01:19:02,440
Speaker 3: Jelly Roll, you see Laney, you're seeing like this next generation.

1329
01:19:02,680 --> 01:19:05,280
Speaker 3: It's kind of I mean, they still have like the

1330
01:19:05,360 --> 01:19:07,560
Speaker 3: kind of brogue country stuff and this kind and this

1331
01:19:07,720 --> 01:19:11,320
Speaker 3: other sort of things and the more established acts. You know,

1332
01:19:11,360 --> 01:19:14,599
Speaker 3: country music really cycles through people in a different way.

1333
01:19:17,439 --> 01:19:21,240
Speaker 3: But I mean, I you know, look at Luke Combs, man,

1334
01:19:21,439 --> 01:19:24,120
Speaker 3: I mean, that guy has connected with people on such

1335
01:19:24,160 --> 01:19:27,599
Speaker 3: a deep level. He's a beautiful singer. He's a very

1336
01:19:28,000 --> 01:19:34,559
Speaker 3: sincere songwriter. And you know that speaks volumes, you know

1337
01:19:34,560 --> 01:19:37,880
Speaker 3: what I mean. It's it's not a it's not just showbiz.

1338
01:19:37,960 --> 01:19:41,080
Speaker 3: It's not a put on. There's not a lot of

1339
01:19:41,760 --> 01:19:43,760
Speaker 3: To me, I might be wrong, it doesn't look like

1340
01:19:43,800 --> 01:19:47,160
Speaker 3: there's a lot of fucking puppet masters behind them. You know,

1341
01:19:47,200 --> 01:19:49,240
Speaker 3: pay no attention to the man behind the green curtain

1342
01:19:49,280 --> 01:19:51,360
Speaker 3: pulling all the strings. I mean, he's just connected with

1343
01:19:51,360 --> 01:19:54,439
Speaker 3: people in a global way with that music. And then

1344
01:19:54,479 --> 01:19:57,840
Speaker 3: you see someone like Laney who's just ultimately very talented

1345
01:19:59,240 --> 01:20:01,600
Speaker 3: and she draws people in and she's very you know

1346
01:20:01,640 --> 01:20:03,519
Speaker 3: what I mean. So she has that and now she

1347
01:20:03,640 --> 01:20:07,960
Speaker 3: goes from success to superstarto. And then you see people

1348
01:20:08,040 --> 01:20:10,680
Speaker 3: like Jelly Roll, whose story is incredible, and then at

1349
01:20:10,760 --> 01:20:14,840
Speaker 3: the end of the day, that kid has a beautiful voice.

1350
01:20:14,840 --> 01:20:17,519
Speaker 3: That kid can really sing, you know. So I think

1351
01:20:17,560 --> 01:20:20,160
Speaker 3: you're starting to see I mean, I think, you know,

1352
01:20:20,280 --> 01:20:23,360
Speaker 3: Nashville is always going to be its own entity and

1353
01:20:23,400 --> 01:20:25,599
Speaker 3: it's going to have its own way of doing things.

1354
01:20:25,680 --> 01:20:30,519
Speaker 3: And but you have to also, you know, I also

1355
01:20:31,000 --> 01:20:35,439
Speaker 3: appreciate that, uh there's people in those bands playing real drums,

1356
01:20:35,479 --> 01:20:39,120
Speaker 3: playing a fucking bass, playing a fucking mandolin, playing a guitar,

1357
01:20:39,320 --> 01:20:41,360
Speaker 3: you know. I mean you look at that and you

1358
01:20:41,400 --> 01:20:45,200
Speaker 3: think that sounds like, like, what's the big deal about that?

1359
01:20:45,360 --> 01:20:47,120
Speaker 3: Isn't that how it's always been. It's like not when

1360
01:20:47,160 --> 01:20:50,560
Speaker 3: you see you know, the laptop nation, you know what

1361
01:20:50,680 --> 01:20:53,080
Speaker 3: I mean. Like there's bands who can't do their show

1362
01:20:53,160 --> 01:20:56,960
Speaker 3: if the laptop doesn't work. I mean, cool, but that's

1363
01:20:57,000 --> 01:20:59,000
Speaker 3: not for me, man, you know what I mean. I'd

1364
01:20:59,080 --> 01:21:02,320
Speaker 3: like to you know, I don't we That's the other thing.

1365
01:21:02,360 --> 01:21:05,599
Speaker 3: It's not out of an arrogance or any thing about that.

1366
01:21:05,720 --> 01:21:08,680
Speaker 3: It's just you know, rich and I. If all the

1367
01:21:08,800 --> 01:21:11,519
Speaker 3: power went out or whatever, had a gig, we could

1368
01:21:11,520 --> 01:21:13,200
Speaker 3: sit at the front of the stage with an acoustic

1369
01:21:13,240 --> 01:21:16,160
Speaker 3: guitar and sing our songs and it would entertain people.

1370
01:21:16,479 --> 01:21:20,680
Speaker 3: And I think it would you know, touch, So it

1371
01:21:20,680 --> 01:21:22,479
Speaker 3: wouldn't be the same. Some people would be like, fuck you,

1372
01:21:22,520 --> 01:21:24,360
Speaker 3: I want my money back, but some people would actually

1373
01:21:24,400 --> 01:21:28,679
Speaker 3: really feel it, you know, I mean, and I think again,

1374
01:21:28,760 --> 01:21:32,519
Speaker 3: that's what everyone's looking for, you know. So country music

1375
01:21:32,600 --> 01:21:36,320
Speaker 3: is in good hands obviously, and they're doing big business.

1376
01:21:36,520 --> 01:21:39,439
Speaker 2: Okay, so you make this record, you make it on

1377
01:21:39,479 --> 01:21:42,240
Speaker 2: your old dog, you make the record you want. The

1378
01:21:42,320 --> 01:21:48,160
Speaker 2: record releases into a completely different landscape from nineteen ninety Okay,

1379
01:21:48,520 --> 01:21:52,479
Speaker 2: prior to MTV, we had AM and FM. MTV closes

1380
01:21:52,520 --> 01:21:56,280
Speaker 2: the model culture if you're a hit on MTV, everybody

1381
01:21:56,280 --> 01:21:59,439
Speaker 2: in the world knows you. Okay, at the end of

1382
01:21:59,439 --> 01:22:02,400
Speaker 2: the reign of MTV, hip hop becomes a big thing.

1383
01:22:02,960 --> 01:22:06,120
Speaker 2: Prior to the Internet, there was a new sound every

1384
01:22:06,120 --> 01:22:08,240
Speaker 2: three or four years. There's certainly not a new sound

1385
01:22:08,320 --> 01:22:11,800
Speaker 2: that breaks big every three or four years now. So

1386
01:22:12,280 --> 01:22:15,000
Speaker 2: you're putting out a record, they have something, and you

1387
01:22:15,080 --> 01:22:17,559
Speaker 2: talk about a radio format, even though radio means less,

1388
01:22:17,600 --> 01:22:21,040
Speaker 2: but it's a category. There's active rock. If you listen

1389
01:22:21,040 --> 01:22:23,919
Speaker 2: to that music, a lot of it is Metallica derived,

1390
01:22:24,439 --> 01:22:30,680
Speaker 2: fast noisy, etc. Straight ahead rock. You were almost the

1391
01:22:31,439 --> 01:22:36,040
Speaker 2: sole outpost of that nineteen ninety so. Now it's twenty

1392
01:22:36,160 --> 01:22:41,040
Speaker 2: twenty four and nobody is as big as they were

1393
01:22:41,080 --> 01:22:45,200
Speaker 2: in the MTV era. Taylor Swift may be doing incredible gross,

1394
01:22:45,680 --> 01:22:49,200
Speaker 2: but when you had those successful records off your first album,

1395
01:22:49,640 --> 01:22:53,280
Speaker 2: everybody knew those records. Everybody whereas as big as Taylor

1396
01:22:53,320 --> 01:22:56,800
Speaker 2: Swift does an only user because she's very successful, but

1397
01:22:56,840 --> 01:22:59,880
Speaker 2: I can use a million other names Beyondy Morgan Wallen.

1398
01:23:00,280 --> 01:23:02,559
Speaker 2: If you don't want to hear it, you don't have to.

1399
01:23:03,400 --> 01:23:08,000
Speaker 2: So you're putting a record into the marketplace that is

1400
01:23:08,040 --> 01:23:11,920
Speaker 2: the Black Crows business. Which isn't really exactly like anything else.

1401
01:23:12,320 --> 01:23:13,400
Speaker 2: How does that feel?

1402
01:23:14,760 --> 01:23:18,559
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I think it feels amazing because you know, again,

1403
01:23:19,960 --> 01:23:23,559
Speaker 3: part of the machinery of the era of making those

1404
01:23:23,640 --> 01:23:27,360
Speaker 3: kind of records wasn't just selling the records. It was

1405
01:23:27,520 --> 01:23:29,160
Speaker 3: You're going to be in the studio for six months.

1406
01:23:29,200 --> 01:23:30,800
Speaker 3: It's going to cost a million and a half dollars. The

1407
01:23:30,840 --> 01:23:33,000
Speaker 3: guy's gonna rent drums. That's going to be another eight

1408
01:23:33,040 --> 01:23:34,920
Speaker 3: thousand dollars you're gonna get, you know what I mean.

1409
01:23:34,960 --> 01:23:38,840
Speaker 3: The whole system was built up in this grandiose money thing,

1410
01:23:39,040 --> 01:23:45,040
Speaker 3: and so in one level, I think I don't feel

1411
01:23:45,080 --> 01:23:47,519
Speaker 3: that I didn't you know, we didn't take a million

1412
01:23:47,600 --> 01:23:49,599
Speaker 3: dollars to make this record, you know what I'm saying.

1413
01:23:49,800 --> 01:23:53,760
Speaker 3: So we we within our inner workings, we're very aware of,

1414
01:23:54,200 --> 01:23:56,479
Speaker 3: you know, this is what we can afford. And you

1415
01:23:56,560 --> 01:23:59,800
Speaker 3: know what, it's lucky that where where we are, that

1416
01:23:59,840 --> 01:24:01,720
Speaker 3: we write the songs we write, that we play the

1417
01:24:01,720 --> 01:24:04,280
Speaker 3: way we play, and that we've done many we've made

1418
01:24:04,320 --> 01:24:06,600
Speaker 3: many records and done many sessions in and out of

1419
01:24:06,600 --> 01:24:09,680
Speaker 3: the Black Crows that we can utilize. I kind of

1420
01:24:09,680 --> 01:24:11,600
Speaker 3: look at the music business in some ways as a

1421
01:24:11,760 --> 01:24:17,000
Speaker 3: science fiction narrative, you know, like of some spaceship and

1422
01:24:17,160 --> 01:24:21,160
Speaker 3: crashed on a desolate alien planet ten thousand years ago,

1423
01:24:21,200 --> 01:24:23,519
Speaker 3: but the inhabitants of that planet can still get in

1424
01:24:23,560 --> 01:24:26,599
Speaker 3: there and take some wires and like you know, a

1425
01:24:26,720 --> 01:24:30,800
Speaker 3: knife or whatever, and they you know, the infrastructure is

1426
01:24:30,840 --> 01:24:38,240
Speaker 3: still available for survival. I think that in our situation,

1427
01:24:40,479 --> 01:24:42,760
Speaker 3: we're very lucky to be from the past where and

1428
01:24:42,840 --> 01:24:45,320
Speaker 3: we've brought an audience and we're and you know, and

1429
01:24:45,400 --> 01:24:50,160
Speaker 3: that audience changes, stays the same and changes. But you

1430
01:24:50,200 --> 01:24:54,960
Speaker 3: know what, really all we've ever been able to have

1431
01:24:55,040 --> 01:24:59,280
Speaker 3: control over is our presentation, which is the music and

1432
01:24:59,320 --> 01:25:04,200
Speaker 3: the live and luckily we were always interested in going

1433
01:25:04,200 --> 01:25:07,120
Speaker 3: out and playing live. That's where we are the Black

1434
01:25:07,160 --> 01:25:13,280
Speaker 3: Crow since day one. That's where we've always I think

1435
01:25:13,280 --> 01:25:18,639
Speaker 3: that's where we've always proved ourselves. And so I mean

1436
01:25:18,720 --> 01:25:22,640
Speaker 3: to me, you know that the Black Crows in the

1437
01:25:22,720 --> 01:25:25,599
Speaker 3: year twenty twenty four, like you said, it's the formats

1438
01:25:25,640 --> 01:25:30,120
Speaker 3: have changed, the whole idea has changed. But we're on

1439
01:25:30,240 --> 01:25:33,240
Speaker 3: charts and we're on weird things. We're on Radio Sydney.

1440
01:25:33,280 --> 01:25:35,639
Speaker 3: They never played us. And when we were the biggest

1441
01:25:35,680 --> 01:25:37,720
Speaker 3: band in the world in nineteen ninety two, right, they

1442
01:25:37,760 --> 01:25:40,720
Speaker 3: didn't play us or things in England and Germany. I mean,

1443
01:25:40,760 --> 01:25:44,120
Speaker 3: our records are like in charts that we've never been

1444
01:25:44,120 --> 01:25:47,240
Speaker 3: in before. And I'm not saying like that means anything

1445
01:25:47,320 --> 01:25:51,000
Speaker 3: other than wow. That means that this band, who plays

1446
01:25:51,040 --> 01:25:57,719
Speaker 3: a pure guitar driven rock and roll sound and incorporates blues, funk, soul, country,

1447
01:25:57,920 --> 01:26:03,880
Speaker 3: roots music influences, still can still create some interest. And

1448
01:26:04,680 --> 01:26:08,559
Speaker 3: I know this. I know that even on Active Rocker

1449
01:26:08,640 --> 01:26:11,960
Speaker 3: and with the band you're talking about, how different does

1450
01:26:12,000 --> 01:26:14,640
Speaker 3: our record sound when the DJ puts it on the

1451
01:26:14,680 --> 01:26:17,880
Speaker 3: station twice a day. I mean that wanting and waiting

1452
01:26:17,960 --> 01:26:20,280
Speaker 3: is popping out of there like something a lot of

1453
01:26:20,320 --> 01:26:24,080
Speaker 3: people and younger people have never heard before. So again,

1454
01:26:24,280 --> 01:26:27,720
Speaker 3: something you know that puts us I think, in my

1455
01:26:27,800 --> 01:26:31,840
Speaker 3: humble opinion, back in the we're in the spearhead of

1456
01:26:31,880 --> 01:26:34,840
Speaker 3: what you know, and hopefully that I would like to

1457
01:26:34,880 --> 01:26:41,320
Speaker 3: think again, maybe super egocentric, that our example could prove

1458
01:26:41,360 --> 01:26:44,400
Speaker 3: to people that you don't have to make fucking producer

1459
01:26:44,479 --> 01:26:47,559
Speaker 3: driven bullshit. You don't have to do it the way

1460
01:26:47,720 --> 01:26:50,200
Speaker 3: some guy told you to. You know what I mean,

1461
01:26:50,280 --> 01:26:53,040
Speaker 3: That's been my whole thing. No one we got into

1462
01:26:53,040 --> 01:26:56,040
Speaker 3: a band because no one. I didn't like to be

1463
01:26:56,080 --> 01:26:58,080
Speaker 3: told what to do. And then, you know what I mean,

1464
01:26:58,080 --> 01:26:59,920
Speaker 3: It's like, so we could come up with this band,

1465
01:27:00,000 --> 01:27:03,599
Speaker 3: and guess what if we're successful and we work hard

1466
01:27:03,640 --> 01:27:05,920
Speaker 3: and people like it, no one can tell you what

1467
01:27:06,040 --> 01:27:08,000
Speaker 3: to do with your art, you know what I mean.

1468
01:27:09,280 --> 01:27:12,080
Speaker 3: And I think again it gets to like compliant, being

1469
01:27:12,160 --> 01:27:16,240
Speaker 3: compliant or being defiant, And we've always been defiant in

1470
01:27:16,320 --> 01:27:20,960
Speaker 3: the pursuit of whatever we want our art to look like,

1471
01:27:21,040 --> 01:27:26,559
Speaker 3: smell like, feel like, move like. And I think what

1472
01:27:26,640 --> 01:27:33,960
Speaker 3: you see today is you know, only compliance only What

1473
01:27:34,000 --> 01:27:36,040
Speaker 3: can I do for more viewers? What can I do

1474
01:27:36,120 --> 01:27:38,439
Speaker 3: for more lights? What can I do? You know what

1475
01:27:38,479 --> 01:27:40,360
Speaker 3: I mean? And it's like so much music that we

1476
01:27:40,520 --> 01:27:46,040
Speaker 3: liked was almost made. They demanded you as a certain

1477
01:27:46,360 --> 01:27:49,759
Speaker 3: person in the marketplace, like you know what I'm making.

1478
01:27:49,800 --> 01:27:52,800
Speaker 3: That's difficult for you. I like that, you know, you

1479
01:27:52,840 --> 01:27:55,000
Speaker 3: know what I mean. It wasn't just about saccarin and

1480
01:27:55,160 --> 01:27:57,680
Speaker 3: sweet hits and you know what I mean now, the

1481
01:27:58,040 --> 01:28:02,000
Speaker 3: cutesy things and everything in the third person, and woe

1482
01:28:02,160 --> 01:28:03,320
Speaker 3: is me? You know what I mean?

1483
01:28:10,560 --> 01:28:12,800
Speaker 2: Okay, you know you work with Jimmy peach Page got

1484
01:28:12,840 --> 01:28:15,519
Speaker 2: together with Robert Plea. They went on the road, and

1485
01:28:15,640 --> 01:28:19,759
Speaker 2: as the tour evolved, they've played less and less new music.

1486
01:28:20,560 --> 01:28:24,400
Speaker 2: The album comes out. You're on the road, you're gonna

1487
01:28:24,439 --> 01:28:26,880
Speaker 2: play the new music no matter what, because you.

1488
01:28:26,840 --> 01:28:27,559
Speaker 3: Have a lot of hips.

1489
01:28:27,600 --> 01:28:29,479
Speaker 2: I mean a lot of people don't, but you do.

1490
01:28:30,080 --> 01:28:33,719
Speaker 3: I don't think we would. Yes, we're going on tour.

1491
01:28:33,880 --> 01:28:36,880
Speaker 3: We're going to play a lot of songs on this record,

1492
01:28:37,040 --> 01:28:41,479
Speaker 3: but we will incorporate that into of course, we have

1493
01:28:41,560 --> 01:28:43,559
Speaker 3: to play the hits. Of course, we have to play

1494
01:28:43,600 --> 01:28:46,400
Speaker 3: the songs that mean the most of people. Of Course,

1495
01:28:46,439 --> 01:28:48,639
Speaker 3: we you know, I don't think I think when we

1496
01:28:48,640 --> 01:28:52,120
Speaker 3: were younger, we would be more flipping about, well, you

1497
01:28:52,120 --> 01:28:54,160
Speaker 3: know what you can hear she talks to angels next week.

1498
01:28:54,160 --> 01:28:55,760
Speaker 3: We're not going to play it every night, But now

1499
01:28:55,960 --> 01:29:00,280
Speaker 3: I also realize the reverence of that song not and

1500
01:29:00,320 --> 01:29:03,400
Speaker 3: its popularity. But we have to play that. It's our

1501
01:29:04,040 --> 01:29:07,639
Speaker 3: and I play it with I enjoy singing it every night.

1502
01:29:08,000 --> 01:29:09,759
Speaker 3: I have to we have to play Hard to Handle,

1503
01:29:09,800 --> 01:29:11,960
Speaker 3: we have to play Remedy, we have to play Jealous

1504
01:29:12,000 --> 01:29:15,000
Speaker 3: again twice as our You know, there's just certain things

1505
01:29:15,000 --> 01:29:20,400
Speaker 3: that uh that the audience expects, and you know, I

1506
01:29:20,439 --> 01:29:23,800
Speaker 3: think we're we I think for the first time we

1507
01:29:24,040 --> 01:29:27,679
Speaker 3: know with certainty that that's what we have to give them. Ah,

1508
01:29:27,680 --> 01:29:29,880
Speaker 3: but we do have this new record, and you know what,

1509
01:29:30,080 --> 01:29:33,160
Speaker 3: it just so happens that these new songs they can

1510
01:29:33,240 --> 01:29:35,559
Speaker 3: live side by side with this, you know what I mean,

1511
01:29:35,680 --> 01:29:38,880
Speaker 3: And we have occasion here and there for the deep

1512
01:29:38,960 --> 01:29:41,360
Speaker 3: fan and for the person who's interested in the Black

1513
01:29:41,400 --> 01:29:44,639
Speaker 3: Crows catalog to play something that maybe you didn't think

1514
01:29:44,680 --> 01:29:46,799
Speaker 3: we were going to play. You know, I think within

1515
01:29:46,880 --> 01:29:49,599
Speaker 3: our within what we're doing, we can hit a lot

1516
01:29:49,640 --> 01:29:55,920
Speaker 3: of notes that way without really deviating from playing our

1517
01:29:55,960 --> 01:29:58,479
Speaker 3: most beloved songs. You know, I think we can make

1518
01:29:58,560 --> 01:30:04,800
Speaker 3: everyone happy. And you know, yeah, let's be honest. Once

1519
01:30:04,880 --> 01:30:07,600
Speaker 3: this happened, as Bastard's tour over, I'm sure we'll go

1520
01:30:07,680 --> 01:30:12,960
Speaker 3: back to a more hit related presentation, throwing in, like,

1521
01:30:13,640 --> 01:30:16,719
Speaker 3: you know, the songs from this record that work the best.

1522
01:30:16,760 --> 01:30:20,160
Speaker 3: But for right now, we've we've moved from the bigger

1523
01:30:20,240 --> 01:30:26,120
Speaker 3: venues to theaters because we know we're gonna do something

1524
01:30:26,120 --> 01:30:28,680
Speaker 3: a little bit different, a little looser than than the

1525
01:30:28,720 --> 01:30:30,760
Speaker 3: greatest hits kind of vibes we've been doing the last

1526
01:30:30,760 --> 01:30:31,680
Speaker 3: couple of years.

1527
01:30:32,120 --> 01:30:36,439
Speaker 2: Okay, as you say the ethos has completely changed. You

1528
01:30:36,520 --> 01:30:39,559
Speaker 2: have a pure rock and roll ethos. What do you

1529
01:30:39,680 --> 01:30:44,200
Speaker 2: think about sponsorship in privates?

1530
01:30:44,920 --> 01:30:48,800
Speaker 3: I mean, I mean, if you could book some far

1531
01:30:48,840 --> 01:30:50,920
Speaker 3: as I would be appreciated. I mean, if you could

1532
01:30:51,000 --> 01:30:53,760
Speaker 3: hook me up with I don't know, something like a.

1533
01:30:54,479 --> 01:30:57,240
Speaker 3: I think the world has changed. My attitudes have changed

1534
01:30:57,240 --> 01:31:00,160
Speaker 3: the you know, it's funny privates used to really I

1535
01:31:00,240 --> 01:31:02,200
Speaker 3: used to feel some sort of like, oh, this is

1536
01:31:02,240 --> 01:31:05,519
Speaker 3: like ripping out my integrity. And now, you know what,

1537
01:31:05,720 --> 01:31:07,760
Speaker 3: I meet a lot of nice people. You know, we

1538
01:31:07,840 --> 01:31:10,720
Speaker 3: play our heads. It's nice. People are nice and they

1539
01:31:10,840 --> 01:31:13,479
Speaker 3: enjoy themselves, and I know we're different than the other

1540
01:31:14,000 --> 01:31:19,679
Speaker 3: things they see. And you know, I'm not the only

1541
01:31:19,720 --> 01:31:21,920
Speaker 3: you know. I'm like, we just put out wanting and waiting.

1542
01:31:21,960 --> 01:31:23,960
Speaker 3: I'm like, it can't be wanting and waiting for the

1543
01:31:24,080 --> 01:31:29,400
Speaker 3: new BMW, you know what I mean, Like, I'm not

1544
01:31:29,479 --> 01:31:32,920
Speaker 3: opposed to it. And actually, I think the one funny

1545
01:31:32,920 --> 01:31:35,360
Speaker 3: thing is because we were always so opposed to it

1546
01:31:35,400 --> 01:31:38,400
Speaker 3: and we had made such a fucking stink about it

1547
01:31:38,479 --> 01:31:40,479
Speaker 3: is I don't think anyone wants to deal with us.

1548
01:31:40,520 --> 01:31:43,880
Speaker 3: You know, the corporate memory is much longer than the

1549
01:31:43,920 --> 01:31:47,800
Speaker 3: average persons I think, you know, I wouldn't know, but no,

1550
01:31:48,240 --> 01:31:50,599
Speaker 3: I mean again, and they these are all the you know,

1551
01:31:50,720 --> 01:31:55,400
Speaker 3: without the the benefit of some of those things, then

1552
01:31:55,439 --> 01:31:57,559
Speaker 3: we find ourselves in a place where we're not being

1553
01:31:57,600 --> 01:32:01,320
Speaker 3: able to finance albums and tours and you know, keep

1554
01:32:01,360 --> 01:32:04,600
Speaker 3: the business going. So there is a pragmatic reason to

1555
01:32:04,640 --> 01:32:10,080
Speaker 3: do it. That's not just for our own wealth or whatever.

1556
01:32:10,280 --> 01:32:12,840
Speaker 3: It's also to keep the show going. You gotta do

1557
01:32:12,920 --> 01:32:17,520
Speaker 3: some things that we wouldn't have done when we were kids.

1558
01:32:17,760 --> 01:32:19,200
Speaker 3: And by the way, if you're going to do them,

1559
01:32:19,640 --> 01:32:22,479
Speaker 3: you have to do them with because you're happy to

1560
01:32:22,560 --> 01:32:26,640
Speaker 3: do it, you know. And I think that's probably the

1561
01:32:26,680 --> 01:32:30,840
Speaker 3: difference between where we were and like the even in

1562
01:32:30,920 --> 01:32:35,320
Speaker 3: the first two thousand and five twenty ten era to today,

1563
01:32:35,520 --> 01:32:38,559
Speaker 3: you know, I mean, we happily do the things that

1564
01:32:38,640 --> 01:32:39,280
Speaker 3: we agree to.

1565
01:32:40,000 --> 01:32:42,479
Speaker 2: Okay, switching gears a little bit. You famously had a

1566
01:32:42,520 --> 01:32:47,280
Speaker 2: long relationship with Kate Hoodson. Earlier in the podcast, you

1567
01:32:47,400 --> 01:32:50,519
Speaker 2: say you're having all these hits. You go to the

1568
01:32:50,520 --> 01:32:52,599
Speaker 2: local bar, there's people who are giving you shit. I

1569
01:32:52,640 --> 01:32:54,040
Speaker 2: hate your music. I see you on.

1570
01:32:54,200 --> 01:32:56,960
Speaker 3: MTV, and I'm going to say that would happen like that?

1571
01:32:56,960 --> 01:33:01,880
Speaker 3: That would be the negative to being famous, That's what

1572
01:33:01,920 --> 01:33:03,599
Speaker 3: I meant. And did it happen that often?

1573
01:33:03,640 --> 01:33:06,480
Speaker 2: Well, I guess. You know, you're not the first musicians

1574
01:33:06,560 --> 01:33:09,080
Speaker 2: involved with a movie star, and certainly rock stars. We

1575
01:33:09,120 --> 01:33:15,080
Speaker 2: had Peter Wolf had fade done away obviously with what

1576
01:33:15,200 --> 01:33:17,320
Speaker 2: goes on one in one, in the bedroom and in

1577
01:33:17,360 --> 01:33:20,479
Speaker 2: your regular life is one thing. But being a musician

1578
01:33:20,560 --> 01:33:23,559
Speaker 2: with a movie star or especially Kate Hudson's sort of

1579
01:33:23,560 --> 01:33:29,240
Speaker 2: America Sweetheart? Did you feel that you got untoward abuse?

1580
01:33:29,439 --> 01:33:31,640
Speaker 2: Was that a good experience? How was it being in

1581
01:33:31,680 --> 01:33:32,160
Speaker 2: the bubble?

1582
01:33:32,720 --> 01:33:36,280
Speaker 3: I mean yeah, I mean well, I mean it was

1583
01:33:36,280 --> 01:33:41,120
Speaker 3: a good experience until it wasn't, I tell you. And

1584
01:33:41,840 --> 01:33:46,600
Speaker 3: the reality is, you know, we're still good friends and

1585
01:33:46,640 --> 01:33:50,960
Speaker 3: we have a beautiful, beautiful son who is still like

1586
01:33:51,160 --> 01:33:54,200
Speaker 3: you know, our lives are very separate, of course, but

1587
01:33:54,560 --> 01:33:59,120
Speaker 3: you know, still the the only important thing really about

1588
01:33:59,240 --> 01:34:03,960
Speaker 3: Kate and relationship twenty something years ago was our son,

1589
01:34:04,120 --> 01:34:05,400
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, and that we can be

1590
01:34:05,479 --> 01:34:09,360
Speaker 3: on the same page and that's really all that's important.

1591
01:34:09,360 --> 01:34:13,920
Speaker 6: But I think other than that, I think I've always

1592
01:34:15,320 --> 01:34:21,560
Speaker 6: I've always found it fairly easy to maintain my own personality,

1593
01:34:21,600 --> 01:34:26,599
Speaker 6: and I know, you know, maybe it changes, of course

1594
01:34:26,600 --> 01:34:29,000
Speaker 6: with time, but I've pretty much always.

1595
01:34:28,680 --> 01:34:35,400
Speaker 3: Known who I am and what's going on. And I've

1596
01:34:35,439 --> 01:34:39,240
Speaker 3: also never been afraid to follow my heart and to

1597
01:34:39,280 --> 01:34:42,920
Speaker 3: see where that leads me. You know, it wasn't until this,

1598
01:34:43,240 --> 01:34:45,519
Speaker 3: you know, until my wife today, that I've ever felt

1599
01:34:45,520 --> 01:34:51,280
Speaker 3: I've actually made the right decision about that. But I

1600
01:34:51,640 --> 01:34:54,080
Speaker 3: can't look you know, I only look back at I

1601
01:34:54,680 --> 01:34:56,720
Speaker 3: am one of those people too that I don't look

1602
01:34:56,800 --> 01:35:00,559
Speaker 3: back with anger. I don't look back with resentments and things.

1603
01:35:01,080 --> 01:35:04,280
Speaker 3: I tend to just remember the you know, the best

1604
01:35:04,320 --> 01:35:06,120
Speaker 3: stuff and the best and the best thing.

1605
01:35:07,200 --> 01:35:07,400
Speaker 1: Uh.

1606
01:35:07,439 --> 01:35:09,600
Speaker 3: And the only thing is that you know, he's not

1607
01:35:09,680 --> 01:35:12,719
Speaker 3: a he's a young man now, he's not a kid anymore.

1608
01:35:13,760 --> 01:35:17,640
Speaker 2: Okay, but that's a classic example where the issue of

1609
01:35:17,720 --> 01:35:21,559
Speaker 2: acceptance comes up. You're a rock and roller of the

1610
01:35:21,600 --> 01:35:25,599
Speaker 2: old school. Are you fine if everybody's pissed off at

1611
01:35:25,600 --> 01:35:28,240
Speaker 2: you or if they don't accept you? Say this is

1612
01:35:28,320 --> 01:35:29,600
Speaker 2: just who I am? Or is there a part of

1613
01:35:29,640 --> 01:35:30,639
Speaker 2: you say, hey, I.

1614
01:35:30,640 --> 01:35:33,760
Speaker 3: Want to be loved. Well, I mean, I'm I think

1615
01:35:33,800 --> 01:35:37,479
Speaker 3: I'm I think I'm very loved. But with the intimate

1616
01:35:37,520 --> 01:35:42,160
Speaker 3: relationships around me, friendships and not just my you know,

1617
01:35:42,479 --> 01:35:48,200
Speaker 3: my my wife and and things like that. But well,

1618
01:35:48,280 --> 01:35:51,479
Speaker 3: I do I do have to say that, you know. Yes,

1619
01:35:51,640 --> 01:35:53,600
Speaker 3: of course I want to be liked. Of course I

1620
01:35:53,680 --> 01:35:59,639
Speaker 3: want to be appreciated. Uh. But then again, I also

1621
01:35:59,760 --> 01:36:03,719
Speaker 3: under stand and not everyone's gonna, uh get my humor.

1622
01:36:03,800 --> 01:36:08,680
Speaker 3: Not everyone's gonna you know, I'm not afraid to be me,

1623
01:36:09,400 --> 01:36:12,200
Speaker 3: and I don't. And again it gets back to I'm

1624
01:36:12,240 --> 01:36:14,599
Speaker 3: not going to pretend to be someone else to make

1625
01:36:16,320 --> 01:36:18,000
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm talking about it in the general way,

1626
01:36:18,120 --> 01:36:19,519
Speaker 3: not in like I don't want to make someone on,

1627
01:36:19,800 --> 01:36:23,559
Speaker 3: you know, and whatever I mean, I I hardly uh,

1628
01:36:24,360 --> 01:36:28,719
Speaker 3: I hardly think of myself. You know. I travel around,

1629
01:36:28,840 --> 01:36:31,479
Speaker 3: I go anywhere I want. No one bothers me, no one,

1630
01:36:31,720 --> 01:36:33,760
Speaker 3: you know, people who know the band know me, and

1631
01:36:33,800 --> 01:36:36,760
Speaker 3: they're always lovely, you know what I mean. And I

1632
01:36:36,800 --> 01:36:38,800
Speaker 3: always have time for them, and I always you know,

1633
01:36:38,840 --> 01:36:41,799
Speaker 3: I meet people at airports, I meet people at hockey games.

1634
01:36:41,840 --> 01:36:44,240
Speaker 3: I meet people at I met you know, we're at

1635
01:36:44,400 --> 01:36:47,080
Speaker 3: clubs all the time in LA looking at young bands

1636
01:36:47,080 --> 01:36:50,480
Speaker 3: and young artists and friends with these people and inspired

1637
01:36:50,479 --> 01:36:56,320
Speaker 3: by what they're doing. And really it's beautiful to see.

1638
01:36:56,880 --> 01:36:59,400
Speaker 3: But but but then there is a side of if

1639
01:36:59,479 --> 01:37:01,280
Speaker 3: you know, you don't like the way I dress, you

1640
01:37:01,320 --> 01:37:04,200
Speaker 3: don't like what I said. Yeah, you know that's kind

1641
01:37:04,240 --> 01:37:09,680
Speaker 3: of still like, you know, I didn't get into rock

1642
01:37:09,720 --> 01:37:12,800
Speaker 3: and roll because I was conforming to anything. I got

1643
01:37:12,800 --> 01:37:15,400
Speaker 3: into rock and roll because I was a nonconformist. I

1644
01:37:15,439 --> 01:37:18,000
Speaker 3: had problems with authority. I didn't like you know what

1645
01:37:18,040 --> 01:37:22,479
Speaker 3: I mean. I'm a person who you know, is a

1646
01:37:22,880 --> 01:37:27,320
Speaker 3: subject to dandyism and you know, I mean, I think

1647
01:37:27,360 --> 01:37:31,120
Speaker 3: the difference also as being young, and we don't really

1648
01:37:31,160 --> 01:37:34,719
Speaker 3: talk about is you know, I like millions of people.

1649
01:37:34,800 --> 01:37:37,559
Speaker 3: I still I don't know if I would say I

1650
01:37:37,640 --> 01:37:42,479
Speaker 3: suffer from depression, but I definitely have moments. But I'm

1651
01:37:42,479 --> 01:37:49,320
Speaker 3: not completely I'm not doing drugs every day. I'm not

1652
01:37:49,439 --> 01:37:51,439
Speaker 3: drinking every day. I'm not you know what I mean.

1653
01:37:51,479 --> 01:37:54,759
Speaker 3: And that only compounded sort of the depression into being

1654
01:37:55,479 --> 01:38:02,840
Speaker 3: lashing out and being more negative socially or in interviews,

1655
01:38:02,960 --> 01:38:08,360
Speaker 3: or you know, not being patient or you know. But

1656
01:38:08,400 --> 01:38:10,920
Speaker 3: those are things also like that I hope you leave

1657
01:38:10,960 --> 01:38:15,200
Speaker 3: behind as you move into you know, a real adulthood,

1658
01:38:15,640 --> 01:38:18,400
Speaker 3: you know, And I don't need to have those attitudes,

1659
01:38:18,439 --> 01:38:24,200
Speaker 3: and I'm far more open and available for all sorts,

1660
01:38:24,360 --> 01:38:26,479
Speaker 3: for all manner of things. That's something that would make

1661
01:38:26,479 --> 01:38:28,880
Speaker 3: me really upset when I was twenty seven, I would

1662
01:38:28,920 --> 01:38:31,599
Speaker 3: just you know, water off my back at this point,

1663
01:38:31,840 --> 01:38:35,960
Speaker 3: you know. But but like I said, I do think that,

1664
01:38:36,760 --> 01:38:38,400
Speaker 3: you know, there's still a little bit of rock and

1665
01:38:38,479 --> 01:38:41,280
Speaker 3: roll that you'ld be like, yeah, well fuck you, you

1666
01:38:41,320 --> 01:38:44,400
Speaker 3: know what I mean, Like, not in like a violent

1667
01:38:44,439 --> 01:38:46,240
Speaker 3: way or weird way, but just like, oh really you

1668
01:38:46,240 --> 01:38:49,280
Speaker 3: don't like that? Well, you know, And I know that

1669
01:38:49,400 --> 01:38:50,080
Speaker 3: sounds like.

1670
01:38:50,120 --> 01:38:53,160
Speaker 2: I don't believe me, I know, but there are very

1671
01:38:53,160 --> 01:38:56,360
Speaker 2: few people who still adhere to that, you know, poor

1672
01:38:56,960 --> 01:38:59,559
Speaker 2: and therefore they saw you know, that's why Neil Young

1673
01:38:59,640 --> 01:39:03,200
Speaker 2: can away draw a big audience and crawls. He's not

1674
01:39:03,320 --> 01:39:05,760
Speaker 2: with us, but still's a Nash can't draw anywhere near

1675
01:39:05,840 --> 01:39:09,360
Speaker 2: that audience because he stayed true to the vision. So

1676
01:39:09,800 --> 01:39:11,960
Speaker 2: do you take medication for your depression?

1677
01:39:13,240 --> 01:39:19,240
Speaker 3: No? No, it's different now that I'm older, you know

1678
01:39:19,240 --> 01:39:22,200
Speaker 3: what I mean. Now it's just and when it rears,

1679
01:39:22,240 --> 01:39:25,280
Speaker 3: it's ugly had it's more just like a hazy melancholia

1680
01:39:25,640 --> 01:39:28,439
Speaker 3: as opposed to something that might be on the verge

1681
01:39:28,439 --> 01:39:31,720
Speaker 3: of debilitating, you know. But then again, that's part of

1682
01:39:31,720 --> 01:39:34,360
Speaker 3: the weird thing. Of when you're young, you get up,

1683
01:39:34,400 --> 01:39:36,600
Speaker 3: you're on fucking tour for ten years, and if you

1684
01:39:36,760 --> 01:39:39,360
Speaker 3: if you don't feel good or you're you're having something

1685
01:39:39,400 --> 01:39:42,040
Speaker 3: going on, no one gives a fuck. You get a gel,

1686
01:39:42,120 --> 01:39:44,120
Speaker 3: get it, You did a gig, man, you know what

1687
01:39:44,160 --> 01:39:50,120
Speaker 3: I mean? And I really appreciate now that younger people,

1688
01:39:50,800 --> 01:39:52,720
Speaker 3: and I mean, I do think it's funny too. It's

1689
01:39:52,720 --> 01:39:55,679
Speaker 3: like they cancel the tour because they're like depressed. I'm like, wow,

1690
01:39:55,720 --> 01:40:02,320
Speaker 3: that must be nice. We were watching documentary about like shoegazs,

1691
01:40:02,479 --> 01:40:07,800
Speaker 3: the history of shoegaze music. I think it was if

1692
01:40:07,800 --> 01:40:10,000
Speaker 3: It's not the if it wasn't the guy from the

1693
01:40:10,000 --> 01:40:13,080
Speaker 3: Cocktail Twins, it was the guy from My Bloody Valentine

1694
01:40:13,160 --> 01:40:15,519
Speaker 3: or something. They were and they were like, yeah, things

1695
01:40:15,520 --> 01:40:19,040
Speaker 3: were going so well, and then you know, then things weren't,

1696
01:40:19,120 --> 01:40:20,880
Speaker 3: and then you got to keep going. And then you're

1697
01:40:20,920 --> 01:40:23,599
Speaker 3: back in the studio and everyone's fighting and that guy's

1698
01:40:23,680 --> 01:40:27,920
Speaker 3: in a spiral and I'm on drugs and whatever, and

1699
01:40:27,960 --> 01:40:30,040
Speaker 3: he goes, Man, no one ever just said we should

1700
01:40:30,040 --> 01:40:32,400
Speaker 3: take six months off. I was like six months. It

1701
01:40:32,439 --> 01:40:35,320
Speaker 3: took six weeks. But you know what's funny, You hear

1702
01:40:35,400 --> 01:40:38,080
Speaker 3: that story a lot from people, and I can identify

1703
01:40:38,160 --> 01:40:41,640
Speaker 3: with that. Yeah, you know, if we just looked at

1704
01:40:41,640 --> 01:40:44,439
Speaker 3: each other and said, let's take thank you, let's take

1705
01:40:44,479 --> 01:40:48,320
Speaker 3: six months off and get clear our heads or whatever,

1706
01:40:48,320 --> 01:40:50,080
Speaker 3: and you just never did back then.

1707
01:40:50,840 --> 01:40:52,000
Speaker 2: So how'd you meet your wife?

1708
01:40:53,920 --> 01:40:56,120
Speaker 3: Now we're coming full circle to the Grateful Dead. I

1709
01:40:56,200 --> 01:40:59,280
Speaker 3: was in a yurt in Big Sur. We met in

1710
01:40:59,280 --> 01:41:00,479
Speaker 3: a yurt, and sir.

1711
01:41:01,479 --> 01:41:03,400
Speaker 2: How were both of you in that yup?

1712
01:41:04,320 --> 01:41:08,360
Speaker 3: Because she had she's an artist and had made some

1713
01:41:08,400 --> 01:41:12,639
Speaker 3: posters for my solo group, the CRB, And we played

1714
01:41:12,680 --> 01:41:14,800
Speaker 3: in Big Sur every year. We had a little thing

1715
01:41:14,920 --> 01:41:17,200
Speaker 3: that started just as us. And then before the end

1716
01:41:17,240 --> 01:41:21,120
Speaker 3: of that band, I put on a little homegrown festival

1717
01:41:21,160 --> 01:41:24,400
Speaker 3: every year called Freaks for the Festival and that was

1718
01:41:24,840 --> 01:41:28,280
Speaker 3: but this was right before that, and there's we played

1719
01:41:28,760 --> 01:41:32,160
Speaker 3: and she came and we were just friends at that time,

1720
01:41:32,240 --> 01:41:35,160
Speaker 3: but we danced all night and that kind of was

1721
01:41:36,720 --> 01:41:44,200
Speaker 3: the dance started. And we're still dancing.

1722
01:41:45,479 --> 01:41:47,080
Speaker 2: So when you met her, were you single?

1723
01:41:50,960 --> 01:41:53,120
Speaker 3: When we met we were friends and I was not,

1724
01:41:53,360 --> 01:41:55,200
Speaker 3: And yeah, I wasn't single at the time.

1725
01:41:57,200 --> 01:42:02,080
Speaker 2: Did you get divorced because you met Camille?

1726
01:42:03,880 --> 01:42:03,960
Speaker 3: No?

1727
01:42:06,000 --> 01:42:10,160
Speaker 2: Okay, you talked about George Clinton backstage as a fan.

1728
01:42:11,640 --> 01:42:14,080
Speaker 2: Tell me two shows that you've seen that were like the.

1729
01:42:14,040 --> 01:42:25,040
Speaker 3: Best shows you've ever seen. Wow, well, I'll tell you this.

1730
01:42:25,200 --> 01:42:28,840
Speaker 3: I saw Depeche Mode about a month ago at the Farm.

1731
01:42:29,080 --> 01:42:32,280
Speaker 3: That's one of the best shows I've ever seen. Incredible,

1732
01:42:33,200 --> 01:42:37,920
Speaker 3: just incredible. I mean, Dave Gahan, incredible front man, hit

1733
01:42:38,040 --> 01:42:42,080
Speaker 3: after hit of like these amazing songs. I was truly

1734
01:42:42,120 --> 01:42:49,280
Speaker 3: blown away. Let me think what and then maybe maybe

1735
01:42:49,400 --> 01:42:51,800
Speaker 3: one of the other best things that I got to

1736
01:42:51,840 --> 01:42:54,880
Speaker 3: see the late Great Least Scratch Perry at Wetlands in

1737
01:42:54,920 --> 01:43:00,280
Speaker 3: New York at the like around ninety eight, maybe twenty

1738
01:43:00,280 --> 01:43:07,240
Speaker 3: seven ninety eight, And that was three hours of we

1739
01:43:07,280 --> 01:43:14,120
Speaker 3: went from the depths of the invocation of the human

1740
01:43:14,160 --> 01:43:18,920
Speaker 3: being in Africa to our ascent into outer space in

1741
01:43:19,000 --> 01:43:28,000
Speaker 3: three hours. It was life changing and life It just

1742
01:43:28,160 --> 01:43:30,479
Speaker 3: was like I never I just couldn't believe it. I've

1743
01:43:30,520 --> 01:43:34,080
Speaker 3: never saw anything like it. And I will say I'll

1744
01:43:34,080 --> 01:43:36,000
Speaker 3: throw this into I know you said too, But I

1745
01:43:36,040 --> 01:43:40,800
Speaker 3: saw Camille and I saw Bob Dylan at the London Palladium.

1746
01:43:40,840 --> 01:43:44,639
Speaker 3: Not this last October, but you know, October twenty twenty two,

1747
01:43:46,439 --> 01:43:49,240
Speaker 3: I might have seen Bob more than any other like artist.

1748
01:43:49,439 --> 01:43:54,640
Speaker 3: You know, I probably first saw him in like, you know,

1749
01:43:54,920 --> 01:43:57,439
Speaker 3: not in them, of course, but like nineteen ninety or

1750
01:43:57,520 --> 01:44:03,400
Speaker 3: ninety one or something. But was sublime. I mean, it

1751
01:44:03,560 --> 01:44:07,479
Speaker 3: was so good and I was And it's funny because

1752
01:44:07,560 --> 01:44:11,639
Speaker 3: I was lucky enough to have dinner. We had dinner

1753
01:44:11,640 --> 01:44:14,000
Speaker 3: with Jimmy Page the next night, and he had been

1754
01:44:14,040 --> 01:44:17,479
Speaker 3: to the show the night before I saw him, and

1755
01:44:17,600 --> 01:44:20,120
Speaker 3: all he wanted to talk about was Bob Show, you know.

1756
01:44:20,280 --> 01:44:24,360
Speaker 3: So it was fantastic because it was you know, I

1757
01:44:24,400 --> 01:44:29,719
Speaker 3: look at someone who's been you know, who who truly

1758
01:44:29,800 --> 01:44:35,960
Speaker 3: has done it all, you know, and the the spell

1759
01:44:36,120 --> 01:44:41,519
Speaker 3: that he evoked at that concert was mesmerizing and and

1760
01:44:41,800 --> 01:44:44,599
Speaker 3: I just couldn't believe it. I like floated out of there,

1761
01:44:44,920 --> 01:44:45,519
Speaker 3: you know what I mean.

1762
01:44:46,560 --> 01:44:49,960
Speaker 2: So it doesn't bother you that the songs are rearranged.

1763
01:44:49,800 --> 01:44:54,640
Speaker 3: Not at all. Bob Dylan's not He's not the you know,

1764
01:44:55,760 --> 01:44:59,840
Speaker 3: he's not that kind of performer. You know, he's the

1765
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:06,120
Speaker 3: world's greatest living songwriter. So I don't you know, I

1766
01:45:06,160 --> 01:45:10,160
Speaker 3: don't think that, and I think for many years now,

1767
01:45:10,320 --> 01:45:13,120
Speaker 3: you know, you're not going to see Bob and he's

1768
01:45:13,160 --> 01:45:15,479
Speaker 3: going to sound like he did in nineteen sixty six

1769
01:45:15,640 --> 01:45:18,320
Speaker 3: or nineteen seventy six or nineteen eighty six or nineteen

1770
01:45:18,400 --> 01:45:23,559
Speaker 3: ninety six, they would be very different presentation. I think

1771
01:45:23,600 --> 01:45:29,120
Speaker 3: once you relinquish yourself to Bob's vision or what he

1772
01:45:29,200 --> 01:45:32,160
Speaker 3: wants to say, then you can really get something out

1773
01:45:32,160 --> 01:45:35,559
Speaker 3: of it if you go and you have expectations that

1774
01:45:35,680 --> 01:45:38,920
Speaker 3: or other than whatever that artist, that particular artist too. Hey,

1775
01:45:39,280 --> 01:45:43,719
Speaker 3: who wields the power and who wields the talk about

1776
01:45:43,760 --> 01:45:45,559
Speaker 3: someone who doesn't give a far. He doesn't give a far.

1777
01:45:46,600 --> 01:45:48,160
Speaker 3: That's what he's going to do. That's the way he

1778
01:45:48,200 --> 01:45:51,640
Speaker 3: wants to do it, and that's you know again, that's

1779
01:45:52,240 --> 01:45:54,400
Speaker 3: just one of the reasons why he remains one of

1780
01:45:54,439 --> 01:46:00,120
Speaker 3: my heroes and one of the great inspirations, not just

1781
01:46:00,160 --> 01:46:02,720
Speaker 3: as a singer, songwriter, lyricist, but.

1782
01:46:02,840 --> 01:46:05,639
Speaker 2: Just as an artist. Have you met him, Yeah, Yeah,

1783
01:46:05,640 --> 01:46:09,080
Speaker 2: I met him. I met him at So did you

1784
01:46:09,160 --> 01:46:11,519
Speaker 2: find him to be open with you? Because he could

1785
01:46:11,520 --> 01:46:13,360
Speaker 2: famously be non responsive.

1786
01:46:13,640 --> 01:46:16,240
Speaker 3: I was terrified when I first met him because of

1787
01:46:16,280 --> 01:46:18,679
Speaker 3: the things I've heard, and over the years, the few

1788
01:46:20,320 --> 01:46:22,760
Speaker 3: times that I've got to talk to him for a

1789
01:46:22,800 --> 01:46:28,000
Speaker 3: little bit, he's He's always been very open, always very cool,

1790
01:46:28,840 --> 01:46:32,280
Speaker 3: always a handshake. He always says. You know, the first

1791
01:46:32,320 --> 01:46:34,000
Speaker 3: time I met him, he goes, hey, Chris, I'm Bob,

1792
01:46:34,080 --> 01:46:40,839
Speaker 3: and I was like, oh shit, I am Chris. Always

1793
01:46:40,840 --> 01:46:44,920
Speaker 3: been very cool and we've been lucky to like run

1794
01:46:45,000 --> 01:46:47,760
Speaker 3: into each other, you know, go to gigs. But I've

1795
01:46:47,800 --> 01:46:52,160
Speaker 3: run into him and all sorts of weird situations that

1796
01:46:52,240 --> 01:46:55,280
Speaker 3: I never would have thought as a kid running into

1797
01:46:55,320 --> 01:46:58,360
Speaker 3: Bob Dylan, and you know, it just it makes me

1798
01:46:58,479 --> 01:47:01,240
Speaker 3: laugh too, that one of the great I was friends

1799
01:47:01,240 --> 01:47:04,080
Speaker 3: with David Crosby for since nineteen ninety one or whatever,

1800
01:47:04,120 --> 01:47:07,080
Speaker 3: and I'm very sad when he left. And I know

1801
01:47:07,240 --> 01:47:09,559
Speaker 3: a lot of people have opinions about the cross, but

1802
01:47:09,800 --> 01:47:12,920
Speaker 3: I'm a Bird's fanatic. Crosby, Steals and Nash, if I

1803
01:47:12,960 --> 01:47:14,479
Speaker 3: can only remember my name is one of the most

1804
01:47:14,520 --> 01:47:18,360
Speaker 3: beautiful records. And I was lucky enough to sing on

1805
01:47:18,400 --> 01:47:21,720
Speaker 3: a live record that he released in the mid nineties

1806
01:47:21,920 --> 01:47:23,760
Speaker 3: called It's All Coming Back to Me Now, and I

1807
01:47:23,800 --> 01:47:25,320
Speaker 3: got to sing with it. I sang with him a

1808
01:47:25,360 --> 01:47:32,360
Speaker 3: few times throughout my career. But Crosby, Seals, Nash and

1809
01:47:32,439 --> 01:47:35,120
Speaker 3: Young were playing when they toured last maybe it was

1810
01:47:35,720 --> 01:47:38,840
Speaker 3: ninety nine and they played at Madison Square Garden, and

1811
01:47:38,880 --> 01:47:41,120
Speaker 3: I've also been very lucky in my life to meet

1812
01:47:41,120 --> 01:47:46,160
Speaker 3: the Great Jim Keltner, who is another one of my

1813
01:47:46,320 --> 01:47:50,120
Speaker 3: musical heroes. And the rhythm section was another one of

1814
01:47:50,160 --> 01:47:55,040
Speaker 3: my heroes again, the late Great Duck Dune Donald Duck Dunn,

1815
01:47:56,800 --> 01:47:58,720
Speaker 3: and I got to be friends with Duck, and that

1816
01:47:58,920 --> 01:48:02,519
Speaker 3: was also another very special relationships to me. But I

1817
01:48:02,880 --> 01:48:05,240
Speaker 3: took a friend. We all go down to Madison Square

1818
01:48:05,280 --> 01:48:08,680
Speaker 3: Garden and I, you know, I have my lamb and

1819
01:48:08,720 --> 01:48:10,880
Speaker 3: it's my tickets, and we go backstage and I was

1820
01:48:10,960 --> 01:48:14,160
Speaker 3: just I've never gone anywhere expecting anyone to say hello,

1821
01:48:14,360 --> 01:48:16,479
Speaker 3: to meet anyone, any of that. You know, I don't

1822
01:48:16,479 --> 01:48:19,080
Speaker 3: have those expectations. But I did know I was going

1823
01:48:19,160 --> 01:48:22,200
Speaker 3: to go say hey to Duck because I'm Duck. We

1824
01:48:22,200 --> 01:48:28,360
Speaker 3: were friends. Uh. Duck's son, Jeff was the Black Cros's

1825
01:48:28,360 --> 01:48:30,519
Speaker 3: front of house for like the first eight years of

1826
01:48:30,520 --> 01:48:34,960
Speaker 3: our career, so that's how I know him. So as

1827
01:48:35,000 --> 01:48:38,439
Speaker 3: I'm walking backstage, it's like before the show, every you know,

1828
01:48:39,000 --> 01:48:41,600
Speaker 3: I see Cross and he's like, yeah, Chris, how are you?

1829
01:48:41,720 --> 01:48:45,479
Speaker 3: And he gives me a hug, and Stills is like, hey, Chris,

1830
01:48:45,520 --> 01:48:48,120
Speaker 3: I'm Steven. We've never met before, you know, but I

1831
01:48:48,160 --> 01:48:50,200
Speaker 3: hear you're the rocker. I'm the rock and roll dude.

1832
01:48:50,240 --> 01:48:52,920
Speaker 3: You're the right, you know. I had met Neil before,

1833
01:48:53,120 --> 01:48:55,840
Speaker 3: and Neil was very friend. Hey, Chris, how's it going, man?

1834
01:48:55,920 --> 01:48:58,000
Speaker 3: I was like hey, And then Graham Nash. I had

1835
01:48:58,040 --> 01:49:01,400
Speaker 3: met with David once, and I'm like, if you had

1836
01:49:01,439 --> 01:49:05,479
Speaker 3: told my thirteen years you know what I mean. I

1837
01:49:05,520 --> 01:49:11,880
Speaker 3: was like that it was it was surreal. And the

1838
01:49:11,960 --> 01:49:14,559
Speaker 3: music that they've made together, the music they made on

1839
01:49:14,600 --> 01:49:19,280
Speaker 3: their own, that every one of them my name came

1840
01:49:19,320 --> 01:49:23,680
Speaker 3: out of their mouths, was like like such a just

1841
01:49:23,920 --> 01:49:26,479
Speaker 3: such a head trip, you know what I mean. And

1842
01:49:26,640 --> 01:49:29,240
Speaker 3: I really was one of those nights. I was like,

1843
01:49:29,600 --> 01:49:31,400
Speaker 3: I'll always remember this, you know.

1844
01:49:33,040 --> 01:49:35,320
Speaker 2: So were you a led Zeppelin fam How did you

1845
01:49:35,400 --> 01:49:36,519
Speaker 2: end up working with Jimmy p.

1846
01:49:37,360 --> 01:49:41,759
Speaker 3: Of course we love led Zeppelin. We work with Jimmy

1847
01:49:41,840 --> 01:49:49,000
Speaker 3: because I think maybe that's hard to remember which time,

1848
01:49:49,160 --> 01:49:53,439
Speaker 3: but Robert Plant brought Jimmy down when we played the

1849
01:49:53,520 --> 01:50:01,240
Speaker 3: Royal Albert Hall in the nineties late nineties, and because

1850
01:50:01,280 --> 01:50:04,160
Speaker 3: we had, you know, known Robert for a minute, and

1851
01:50:04,240 --> 01:50:07,760
Speaker 3: Jimmy was like he really liked the show. And then

1852
01:50:07,840 --> 01:50:10,679
Speaker 3: you know, in the dressing room. He really I back

1853
01:50:10,720 --> 01:50:13,200
Speaker 3: then was I always had like a couple hundred CDs

1854
01:50:13,200 --> 01:50:16,439
Speaker 3: and cases and hysteria and we're always playing music. And

1855
01:50:16,479 --> 01:50:20,360
Speaker 3: he I think he was, you know, like impressed and

1856
01:50:20,880 --> 01:50:24,840
Speaker 3: with my CD collection and with the stuff we talked about.

1857
01:50:24,840 --> 01:50:27,960
Speaker 3: And we went out and we were playing at the

1858
01:50:28,040 --> 01:50:34,280
Speaker 3: Zeneth in Paris the next like in the you know,

1859
01:50:34,520 --> 01:50:38,920
Speaker 3: a couple of days later, and our dear friend, the

1860
01:50:38,920 --> 01:50:42,360
Speaker 3: photographer Ross Halfin, was like, Jimmy wants to come around.

1861
01:50:43,800 --> 01:50:45,200
Speaker 3: We're coming to the show. And I was like, I'll

1862
01:50:45,200 --> 01:50:48,040
Speaker 3: hook up everything, well, hit the you know, hit the

1863
01:50:48,080 --> 01:50:51,040
Speaker 3: town afterwards. He goes, if you ask him, maybe he'll

1864
01:50:51,080 --> 01:50:54,120
Speaker 3: get up. And so he was there and I said,

1865
01:50:54,160 --> 01:50:57,080
Speaker 3: you want to play? You know, we played. We played

1866
01:50:57,160 --> 01:50:59,639
Speaker 3: like woke up this morning, you know, the BB King song,

1867
01:50:59,680 --> 01:51:03,120
Speaker 3: and there's some blues that we had in the set.

1868
01:51:04,160 --> 01:51:06,160
Speaker 3: Might even been like a Champion Jack two press. I

1869
01:51:06,200 --> 01:51:09,840
Speaker 3: don't know what. I don't actually remember, but he was

1870
01:51:09,880 --> 01:51:13,400
Speaker 3: like yeah yeah. And then I said, all right, well

1871
01:51:13,720 --> 01:51:16,000
Speaker 3: maybe we'll do shake your money Maker too, olmar James

1872
01:51:16,000 --> 01:51:18,400
Speaker 3: say yeah, yeah, whatever you want to be great. So

1873
01:51:18,439 --> 01:51:20,880
Speaker 3: I'm like ladies and gentlemen, you know, Jimmy Page, and

1874
01:51:20,880 --> 01:51:23,960
Speaker 3: we're in the Zenith in Paris and people are fucking

1875
01:51:24,040 --> 01:51:26,720
Speaker 3: losing their minds and we went out and had a

1876
01:51:26,760 --> 01:51:33,280
Speaker 3: great night together. And then the next thing that happens

1877
01:51:33,360 --> 01:51:36,920
Speaker 3: with us is there's a benefit in London and we're

1878
01:51:36,960 --> 01:51:40,519
Speaker 3: on tour with Aerosmith and doing stadiums and stuff in

1879
01:51:40,680 --> 01:51:44,640
Speaker 3: ninety nine, and it comes up there's like, well, they

1880
01:51:44,680 --> 01:51:46,960
Speaker 3: would like to get Jimmy and you guys are gonna

1881
01:51:47,000 --> 01:51:49,360
Speaker 3: you guys are in town, maybe you guys can collaborate

1882
01:51:49,400 --> 01:51:53,479
Speaker 3: with Jimmy on something. And we were like, I mean, yeah, fuck,

1883
01:51:53,560 --> 01:51:57,200
Speaker 3: of course, that's really where it comes from. So we

1884
01:51:57,240 --> 01:51:59,120
Speaker 3: rehearsed a little bit and we did a couple of

1885
01:51:59,200 --> 01:52:02,320
Speaker 3: things out the gate, and then it was just kind

1886
01:52:02,320 --> 01:52:07,120
Speaker 3: of like poking around after that. And then there we

1887
01:52:07,120 --> 01:52:10,320
Speaker 3: were in a rehearsal space in New York before roseland

1888
01:52:10,400 --> 01:52:13,839
Speaker 3: with Jimmy Page for eight days, learning the led Zeppelin

1889
01:52:13,880 --> 01:52:16,559
Speaker 3: catalog and teaching him she talks to angels and shit,

1890
01:52:16,720 --> 01:52:23,000
Speaker 3: and again we just got on. Jimmy's a wonderful guy

1891
01:52:23,320 --> 01:52:27,160
Speaker 3: and you know, taught me many valuable lessons. So that's

1892
01:52:27,200 --> 01:52:32,759
Speaker 3: a guy that Jimmy Page is the legend dairy person

1893
01:52:32,800 --> 01:52:36,639
Speaker 3: that he is because is he talented most definitely, does

1894
01:52:36,680 --> 01:52:39,559
Speaker 3: he have a vision for that talent? Most definitely, that

1895
01:52:39,640 --> 01:52:44,000
Speaker 3: he also works very hard. I never rehearsed that heart

1896
01:52:44,000 --> 01:52:46,640
Speaker 3: in my life. I never. I didn't even know that

1897
01:52:46,760 --> 01:52:48,280
Speaker 3: was possible, you know what I mean. We were from

1898
01:52:48,280 --> 01:52:50,200
Speaker 3: the rolling Stone school of yeah, we'll do it when

1899
01:52:50,240 --> 01:52:54,719
Speaker 3: we get up there, you know. And Jimmy a lot

1900
01:52:54,760 --> 01:52:56,960
Speaker 3: of things happened up there that had nothing to do

1901
01:52:57,040 --> 01:53:00,960
Speaker 3: with the rehearsal either, but that he really I was like, Wow,

1902
01:53:01,040 --> 01:53:04,600
Speaker 3: he's the most maybe one of the most famous, you know,

1903
01:53:04,720 --> 01:53:07,360
Speaker 3: arguably the greatest rock guitarist of all time. And he

1904
01:53:08,520 --> 01:53:12,080
Speaker 3: takes it seriously and works hard. And that is always

1905
01:53:14,600 --> 01:53:16,880
Speaker 3: always been a part of something that I took from

1906
01:53:16,960 --> 01:53:17,679
Speaker 3: Jimmy as well.

1907
01:53:18,800 --> 01:53:22,520
Speaker 2: So were you the last man standing, the last exponent

1908
01:53:22,640 --> 01:53:25,840
Speaker 2: of rock and roll? Or is there a hope for

1909
01:53:26,080 --> 01:53:26,680
Speaker 2: rock going on?

1910
01:53:26,920 --> 01:53:30,320
Speaker 3: There's yeah, there's totally hope, man, there's totally hope. It

1911
01:53:30,400 --> 01:53:33,040
Speaker 3: might not be exactly what we thought it would be

1912
01:53:33,160 --> 01:53:36,280
Speaker 3: or remember it as, but there's lots of kids with

1913
01:53:36,400 --> 01:53:38,639
Speaker 3: there's always kid with a guitar who wants to make

1914
01:53:38,640 --> 01:53:41,800
Speaker 3: a noise, you know what I mean. There's always you know,

1915
01:53:41,920 --> 01:53:44,040
Speaker 3: a bunch of kids who like are kind of have

1916
01:53:44,160 --> 01:53:47,840
Speaker 3: that little punk attitude and they want to like everyone's

1917
01:53:47,880 --> 01:53:50,080
Speaker 3: going up the street, They're going to go down the street,

1918
01:53:50,120 --> 01:53:53,040
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. There's always going to be

1919
01:53:53,080 --> 01:53:56,240
Speaker 3: a troublemaker. There's always going to be the outsider, you know.

1920
01:53:59,320 --> 01:54:02,719
Speaker 3: You know, last I was in Hollywood seeing this kid,

1921
01:54:02,720 --> 01:54:05,960
Speaker 3: Billy Tibbles that I produced his last two records and

1922
01:54:05,960 --> 01:54:10,839
Speaker 3: put them out on Silver Arrow. And he's like young kid,

1923
01:54:11,200 --> 01:54:13,879
Speaker 3: he moved to LA when he was eleven from England

1924
01:54:13,920 --> 01:54:17,240
Speaker 3: and he writes great. I mean we we kind of

1925
01:54:17,280 --> 01:54:20,800
Speaker 3: consider him. What did we say? He's garage glam hunk

1926
01:54:20,920 --> 01:54:23,880
Speaker 3: show tunes kind of you know. And and the guy

1927
01:54:24,000 --> 01:54:26,400
Speaker 3: these band the Uni Boys that play here in LA.

1928
01:54:26,479 --> 01:54:31,560
Speaker 3: And I'm working with this really special artist named Dagger Polyester.

1929
01:54:31,800 --> 01:54:34,280
Speaker 3: And and although these young people are coming, you know,

1930
01:54:34,320 --> 01:54:36,840
Speaker 3: there's power pop and punk and glam and this and

1931
01:54:36,880 --> 01:54:39,080
Speaker 3: that and avant garde music, and like all of a sudden,

1932
01:54:39,160 --> 01:54:41,960
Speaker 3: someone's mentioning Terry Riley and then there's like you know,

1933
01:54:43,840 --> 01:54:46,760
Speaker 3: the Walker Brothers or whatever. But there's there's a real

1934
01:54:49,760 --> 01:54:53,120
Speaker 3: there's a you know, ay you always will see you know,

1935
01:54:53,160 --> 01:54:54,800
Speaker 3: when we were in Nashville. I went out and saw

1936
01:54:54,880 --> 01:54:58,280
Speaker 3: cool bands. You know where I lived to go see bands.

1937
01:54:58,480 --> 01:54:58,680
Speaker 5: You know.

1938
01:55:00,120 --> 01:55:04,320
Speaker 3: You know, we just saw the Charlatan's UK and Ride

1939
01:55:04,360 --> 01:55:07,120
Speaker 3: at the Wiltern. Next week I'm going to see Tye

1940
01:55:07,200 --> 01:55:09,680
Speaker 3: Sigall and White Fence and you know what I mean.

1941
01:55:09,720 --> 01:55:12,480
Speaker 3: So there's always sells, Queens of the Stone Age recently,

1942
01:55:12,720 --> 01:55:17,480
Speaker 3: you know, amazing concert So from the littlest, from the smallest,

1943
01:55:17,480 --> 01:55:20,880
Speaker 3: little fucking stinky dump to the big thing, there's still

1944
01:55:21,120 --> 01:55:28,680
Speaker 3: music happening in guitar music, different ages, different different worlds sometimes,

1945
01:55:30,080 --> 01:55:32,880
Speaker 3: but it's alive and it's well, you know I said

1946
01:55:32,880 --> 01:55:34,760
Speaker 3: a million times, if you go to go to a

1947
01:55:34,840 --> 01:55:37,000
Speaker 3: MEBA right now, you're gonna fucking stand in line with

1948
01:55:37,080 --> 01:55:38,720
Speaker 3: your stack of shit to pay for it, you know

1949
01:55:38,720 --> 01:55:42,600
Speaker 3: what I mean. Because people are buying records, Vinyl records,

1950
01:55:42,640 --> 01:55:46,120
Speaker 3: old ones, new ones, reissues, you know what I mean.

1951
01:55:46,200 --> 01:55:49,240
Speaker 3: There's someone still you know that, you know there's a

1952
01:55:49,280 --> 01:55:52,000
Speaker 3: kid who still goes out and buys a poster lou

1953
01:55:52,040 --> 01:55:54,800
Speaker 3: Reid and puts it on his wall, and that's important.

1954
01:55:58,400 --> 01:56:01,000
Speaker 2: Wow, we could go on for ever, Chris, but we've

1955
01:56:01,040 --> 01:56:04,760
Speaker 2: covered so much. I'm gonna let you go. This will

1956
01:56:04,800 --> 01:56:08,280
Speaker 2: be fascinating for my audience. Thank you so much for

1957
01:56:08,320 --> 01:56:12,480
Speaker 2: spending time with me. Thank you, I'm much appreciated. Thanks

1958
01:56:12,480 --> 01:56:13,360
Speaker 2: for the conversation.

1959
01:56:13,640 --> 01:56:18,040
Speaker 3: I thank you. I'm gonna get off of this and

1960
01:56:18,120 --> 01:56:26,480
Speaker 3: start making borshed. So you didn't know that about.

1961
01:56:23,480 --> 01:56:26,640
Speaker 2: My grandfather used to eat borshed and therefore I could

1962
01:56:26,680 --> 01:56:30,960
Speaker 2: never eat borshed again. I ate it like eight five yeah, no.

1963
01:56:31,160 --> 01:56:34,880
Speaker 3: No, five year old except in Siberia likes beets. You

1964
01:56:34,920 --> 01:56:35,480
Speaker 3: know what I mean?

1965
01:56:35,760 --> 01:56:40,440
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, okay, Chris, until next time. This is

1966
01:56:40,480 --> 01:57:03,120
Speaker 2: Bob left sets