WEBVTT - Esther Perel 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:12.039 Who's that man talking in my ear? He's rong Burndy. 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:17.560 Good night everyone, This was Ron and another episode of 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:24.400 the Run Run. What you're introducing the shell? Oh? Sorry? Yeah? 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:28.440 Is it that you, Carolina? Yes, that's me. You're staring 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:35.479 directly at me in the daylight at a rough night. Folks, 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:39.159 if you're listening, if this microphone is even on, I'm 0:00:39.280 --> 0:00:42.080 I'm gonna give it to you straight. I am Unwell, 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:45.680 if you've never gone through a breakup with a pop star, 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:49.920 well it's like a normal breakup, except you can listen 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:52.760 to them and google them and wear their wigs for hours, 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:59.160 hours upon hours all night. Even listen, I know that 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:01.880 last episode you and see it broke up on air, 0:01:02.000 --> 0:01:05.560 which was crazy, and it kills me. How heartbroken you've been. 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:08.680 I don't know what you mean. I never said I 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:12.440 was heartbroken. Save the drama for your improv class. Listen, 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:15.919 you watched the whole series of Gilmore Girls in five days. 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:19.000 That's eight seasons of a one hour show. That where 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:23.440 you lead, I will follow? Okay, um, Well, today we 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:27.960 have a famous psychotherapist, Esther Perel. She's amazing. I think 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:31.360 it's perfect timing. Wait, we have a guest today. Wait, 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:35.120 it's it's Esther Parrel. See you and I would listen 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:39.280 to her podcast over coffee. Esther is here today? Is 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:44.200 that what you're saying? Yes? Yes, should I shower? That depends? 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:48.800 When's the last time you showered? I showered on Tuesday? 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:52.160 So yesterday? Okay, yesterday was Sunday. So you showered about 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:55.880 a week ago. Yeah, I think maybe that's what happened. 0:01:56.480 --> 0:02:03.960 Is it? It's over four years ago? This is so 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:07.400 Laura li Gilmore of me and you're my little brainy 0:02:07.440 --> 0:02:11.360 act daughter. Rory, Rory, You're better go to Harvard. Okay, 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:13.880 I'm gonna help you get up. Okay, a great timing. 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:17.000 By the way, Carolina, you booked Esther Parrel after my 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:19.840 long distance pop star girlfriend and I broke up. Wow, 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:24.440 really cool. I'm single. Time for me to get into 0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:27.520 couples canceling. Let's just splash water on your face. And 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:31.359 have you ever played the Gilmore Girls drinking game? It's 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:34.359 where you watch Gilmore Girls and you drink every time. 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:36.839 See it doesn't call you all right, We'll be back 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:40.640 with Esther Parrell after this message. Oh oh, that's cool. 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:43.440 You just threw a bucket of water. I'm sorry. It 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:47.320 was the only thing we could do. You're falling apart. Gosh, 0:02:48.560 --> 0:03:02.080 does anyone to have a hair dryer? And we're back 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:05.760 with the Ron Bergny Podcast. I just want to announce 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:09.920 to our listeners that Ron has splash and water on 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:14.079 his face. Yes, we combed his hair a fresh blazer. 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:19.040 He's wearing a woman's medium blazer, so it's a little tight, 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:23.400 but it looks good. It looks I don't mind the 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:26.959 look at all. No, it looks great. And I look 0:03:27.000 --> 0:03:32.320 like Elizabeth Taylor a national velvet. That's a great example. Um, 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:36.000 and yeah, we're ready to record. I think good. No, 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:40.560 I feel fit as a fiddle, and I have to 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:43.920 admit and I you know me, I don't. I don't 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:45.800 admit this off. And I'm a little jealous of our 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:49.360 guest today. Really wow, I do find that surprising. You're 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:52.160 kind of in different fields. Well it comes down to 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:55.800 this Carolina. You know those Ted talks, right, She's given 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:59.240 like a billion of them and I haven't done one. 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:02.240 That's true. And I've made it known to the people 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:04.400 that at the TED conference, I'd be happy to come 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:07.040 out and do a Ted talk anytime. And the response 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:12.400 has been loud and clear, repeatedly no. Thanks. Well, they 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:15.160 cover such different topics, So what would your TED talk 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:18.240 even be about? Literally anything? I mean I told them 0:04:18.320 --> 0:04:20.880 they could. They could pick the subject and I just 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:24.800 get up there and I'd wing it. There's literally thousands 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:28.040 of TED talks I could give on many subjects. Okay, 0:04:28.040 --> 0:04:30.000 I'm starting to see why maybe you're not getting the 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:32.120 response you wanted. I mean, I think you need to 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:34.839 pick a specific topic. Well, I can do that. I'll 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:37.000 do that right off the top of my head right now. Okay, fine, 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:41.400 I'm just spitballing here. Um, Barracudas. I know, I know 0:04:41.480 --> 0:04:45.279 a lot of cool stuff about Baracutas. Bam TED talk 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:50.120 on Barracudas, the fish with sharp teeth. Now, just give 0:04:50.160 --> 0:04:52.760 me a headset, Mike and let me go off. I 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:55.800 think that's exactly what they're hesitant to do. Really well, 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:59.760 then it's it's their loss. I mean, think about it, Carolina, 0:04:59.839 --> 0:05:03.280 I would kill a TED talk, and you know it, right, 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:07.360 whatever the subject is, how to fix your VCR, being 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:12.320 a successful arsonist, whatever, it's just these Silicon Valet dweebs 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:14.640 think they're better than me. I don't know if anyone 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:18.120 needs a VCR right now? And wait, are you suggesting 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:21.280 a Ted talk about being an arsonist ron? I don't 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:23.240 think that's what they're looking for, and I don't think 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:26.240 that you should talk about it. Oh well, it doesn't matter. 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:29.000 Once again, you've completely derailed what was supposed to be 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:31.880 my guest intro and you brought us completely off topic. 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:34.839 May I introduce our guests today? Please? You brought up 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:37.320 the whole Ted talk thing. I'm following you. Well, let's 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:40.359 just drop it. And yes, I do know some things 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:43.760 about arson, but that should be a whole different episode. 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:46.760 I don't think we should do that. Our guest today 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:49.599 is well renowned as an expert in her field, the 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:55.200 study of relationships and sexuality. You don't have to say 0:05:55.200 --> 0:05:59.320 it like that. Well that's a clinical way. Um. We'll 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:02.000 see what she said that's appropriate or not. Um. She 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:06.520 is a psycho therapist, best selling author, podcast host. I 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:09.920 know what that's like, right. And in sen she was 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:13.719 named as one of a hundred Influential Leaders by Oprah 0:06:13.720 --> 0:06:17.680 Winfreyes Super Soul one hundred list. Again, I don't want 0:06:17.720 --> 0:06:19.839 to make this about me, but I'm I'm pretty sure 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:22.359 I almost made the Super Soul one d list. I 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:25.240 was like, one oh one, Ron, you did not make 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:28.520 any lists that Oprah made. Okay, Carolina, stop, I'm not 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:32.200 implying our esteemed guest took my place on Oprah's Super 0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:35.000 Soul one hundred list by any means, no, no way 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:38.839 she earned it. It's actually our honor to sit down 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:42.159 with her today. You're absolutely right. I do think my 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:45.679 spot on Oprah's Super Soul one hundred list was taken 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:49.120 by the band Imagine Dragons. I think that's look it 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:53.120 up there on the list. I understand it's heavy competition. 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:56.760 There's some amazing people, but come on, you've got Ron 0:06:56.839 --> 0:06:59.919 Burgundy just sitting out there with his dick in the wind, 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:03.520 and then you you pick Imagine Dragons. Call me petty 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:07.880 if you want, But anyway, joining us now is an 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:11.200 amazing person who I would like to quote because I 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:13.880 think there's a lot of truth in her words. The 0:07:14.000 --> 0:07:18.040 quality of our relationships determines the quality of our lives. 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:21.120 Those words ring true to me, and they're they're from 0:07:21.160 --> 0:07:25.120 our guests. So if you could just shut your apper, Carolina, 0:07:25.520 --> 0:07:29.080 and please welcome to the program, Dr Esther Perell. Dr Perell, 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:31.280 thank you for joining us today. It's a pleasure to 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:33.320 be here. But you need to take the word doctor 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:35.920 out of it. Oh should we not? One? Okay, well, 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:40.520 let's uh who put that in my script? It's okay, 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:42.800 doesn't think anything away from me? Just as a nickname. 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:47.600 Can I call you a doctor? Doc? Doc perel? It 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:51.080 sounds like a Remember it is not real. It's not 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:54.720 real because I cannot misrepresent my sin. Well, then let 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:57.440 me just say Esther, I'm just I'm fascinated by your journey. 0:07:57.480 --> 0:08:01.120 You you grew up an antwer Belgium. Correct, You studied 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:03.920 in Jerusalem, and then you came to the United States 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:06.800 for graduate school, right, and I believe that's where you 0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:09.680 fell in love with New York City. And for our 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:13.240 listeners who have never been to New York or or Carolina, 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:16.320 who wouldn't last ten minutes in that town, what is 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:19.720 it like to fall in love with New York City? 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:22.000 And and what did New York mean to you at 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:25.400 that time in your life? Okay, a little correction. I 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:28.720 fell in love with a man with New York City. 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:32.160 But together we came to New York City and the 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:33.880 best way for me today. But he was not a 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:37.839 New Yorker. No, not that a Southerner, um like as 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:40.040 in the Southern United States, as in southern United And 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:45.280 it was he from Alabama, Atlanta or Atlanta. So you 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:48.480 fell in love with this gentleman. And New York for 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:51.520 me was basically the one place I really wanted to 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:53.880 live if I was to stay in the US, which 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:55.720 I didn't know that I would stay. I came for 0:08:55.760 --> 0:08:58.720 one year. I just didn't use my return ticket, and 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:00.880 the reason being that I think it's a city with 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:04.079 a soul. I always though there are cities with character 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:08.560 and cities with soul. Sorry that's my phone. And the 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:11.760 ones with soul they basically reflect your inner state. But 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:14.800 it's a dirty soul with gum stuck to the bartimes. 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:17.520 And sometimes when you are ecstatic, it just makes you 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:19.560 feel like you are on top of the world as well. 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:22.760 It's both, and it reflects the darkest and the most 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:25.720 luminous sides. But it is a romantic place. It's a 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:29.120 great city to fall in love with, absolutely right. New 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:32.280 York is. Also it's a it's a great city for heartbreak, 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:35.600 wouldn't you say. And it's a perfect city to be 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:39.240 a psychotherapist. Well, if you have a broken heart. In 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:41.960 New York you can identify with every piece of paper 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:44.120 on the street, and you just feel like you are 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:48.240 dejected and rejected. And in terms of being a therapist, 0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:50.319 I would say that New York is a great place 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:53.400 to come with a dream, with an ambition, with a 0:09:53.480 --> 0:09:56.760 desire to try out something, with a wish to reinvent yourself. 0:09:56.800 --> 0:10:01.160 It's filled with refugees of all sorts. Did you just 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:04.840 clean up? I mean, and your practice just treating New 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:08.280 Yorkers who are still in constant need of therapy. You 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:11.360 make a lot of money, right with all the New Yorkers. 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:17.720 I think you have a very misconception of psychotherapy. You 0:10:17.800 --> 0:10:21.320 see when I mean, I happen to work in private practice, 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:25.640 but many of us do not. We work in hospitals, 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:27.720 we work in clinics. We work with people who have 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:34.160 very little run ye um. If you really want lucrative 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:36.920 and if you want to make money, then doing psychotherapy 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:39.400 is probably not the best way to do so. But 0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:44.560 if you want meaning inspiration as a profession with very 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:48.439 little agism, actually, because you can practice until your brain 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:53.920 stops functioning, then it is really, you know, dealing with 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:58.160 the human life. Human psyche, the human suffering, the human spirit, 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:01.080 the human resilience is probably be one of the most 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:04.920 inspiring profession. It has to be rejuvenating in a way. 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:09.360 Sometimes sometimes it's very lonely. Sometimes it's quite isolating. You 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:12.520 sit alone with people and you absorb a lot, a 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:17.120 lot of their life experiences, and so it's very important 0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:22.119 to be highly supported, highly rejuvenated by other things actually 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:27.360 as well, not just because it's heavy to absorb the 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:31.920 experience for other people. And yet there's always a Sabarros 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:34.400 around the corner, and you can you can go and 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:38.160 get get energy from from going to sabarrows or sitting 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:42.120 on a park bench. But I like you like sabars. Okay, 0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:45.880 what what do you like the pizza with the spicy pepperoni? No, 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:50.480 I like the flat diet coke flat. Yes, yes, that's 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:53.480 what I like that They don't really you can't find 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:59.680 it out here and where we're talking this place, Los Angeles. Yes, 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:04.320 thank you, Carolina. Um are you at that stage of 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:08.600 what of memory? Menopause? Oh? Men? Memory? No, I have 0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:13.640 a very sharp memory. You forgot your first name? I 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:15.600 did at the beginning of this podcast. I did for 0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:18.800 just a second um, but that is also a sign 0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:22.720 of great intelligence I've read. So let me ask you this, 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:25.520 what was it that sparked you to begin focusing on 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:30.000 the world of relationships and sexuality. You don't have to 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:33.319 say it like that. So I did relationships long before 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:38.760 I touched sexuality. But I've thought that family systems. Families 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:44.480 are probably the most complex relational system. Let me sorry, 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:48.000 that's my phone. Don't you just turn it onto airpoint mode? Yeah, 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:52.280 let me let me just do that? And it is riveting, unending. 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:56.720 It's just never twice the same. And um, I got very, 0:12:56.840 --> 0:13:00.480 very interested. Instead of just focusing on working with indeed usuals, 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:03.840 I've wanted to work with individuals in their relational systems. 0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:07.080 And first it was families, then it became couples, and 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:11.439 I realized, I'm endlessly fascinating by working with couples because 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:14.040 it's a it's a system that can be blissful or 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:17.400 it can be hell. It's and everything in between. What 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:20.520 two people can do to each other, it's just infinite. 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:24.640 And then gradually I got interested in dealing with the 0:13:24.679 --> 0:13:29.560 subject of sexuality because, um well, I kind of was 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:32.920 very intrigued with at the time the Clinton scandal and 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:35.880 what it meant in terms of how this society in 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:38.960 the United States addresses the subject of sexuality and how 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:44.400 different it is from many other places. And but more importantly, 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:48.840 I think that sexuality is probably in every society, the 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:53.600 part where the most archaic, rooted and trenched traditional views 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:57.160 and beliefs are lodged is around sexuality. And the place 0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:00.800 that where the most radical progressive change take place in 0:14:00.840 --> 0:14:04.199 a society or in a culture is also around sexuality. 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:08.840 You wrote an article in search of erotic intelligence, and 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:11.920 that was a bit of a career milestone for you. Correct. 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:16.199 Can you talk about that? I was interested in America's 0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:21.520 attitude responses towards the subject of sexuality. But there is 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:26.200 no public health policy for adolescent sexuality in the United States. 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:29.440 Oh sorry, I thought it was on airplane mode it 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:32.640 obviously we're in the middle of an energy I just 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:35.240 want to be able to have a visual contact with it. 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:40.680 Go ahead. Continue. In Europe, we think that sexuality is 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:44.480 natural and being irresponsible is the problem, and that's what 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:47.800 you need to educate for. In the United States, sex 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:50.640 is seen as the risk factor in and of itself, 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:54.440 and as a result, people are left often very ignorant 0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:58.240 and making an enormous amount of mistakes. I was interested 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:01.400 in why it is that the posterrapy feel that I 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:04.480 was part of spoke so little about sexuality when we 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:08.960 know how central sexuality is to modern relationships and modern love. 0:15:09.360 --> 0:15:12.520 I was interested in the politics of sexuality. I was 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:16.120 interested in the troubles that people have around it. And 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:20.280 I just thought it is an absolutely unexplored terrain. The 0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:24.520 sexologists don't talk about relationships, and the relationship therapists talk 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:28.120 very little about sexuality, and I wanted to create that bridge. 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:31.960 You know, I am a firm believer in talking about sexuality. 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:34.920 I mean, way back when I was I talked about 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:39.680 sexuality constantly at nauseam. And why did you talk about Well, 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:42.160 I just like, you know, I'd be at a cocktail party, 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:45.040 like is everyone having enough sex? And I just wanted to, 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:47.520 you know, address the elephant in the room. And did 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:51.000 people gather around you or slowly walk to the bar? Exactly? No, 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:53.280 I was shunned. But you both want to take away 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:56.040 the shock value of it. Yes, I wanted to, you know, 0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:59.000 not make it such a big deal. But it is 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:01.800 a deal. It is a big deal. It's just that 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:04.360 you can have something that is beautiful and a big 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:11.080 deal or something that is shameful, guilty inducing, filled with secrecy. Okay, 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:15.520 I went to the other side. I'm just theorizing here. 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:17.400 But let me ask you this. Do you believe there 0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:21.720 is erotic intelligence on other planets? I don't think there's 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:25.040 any public scientific research to back it up. But I 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:28.080 guess what I'm asking is, could there be sexy aliens 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:32.600 out there? I have no idea, and ultimately I am 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:37.200 not necessarily that interested about that. Yeah, I'm very interested 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:41.800 in cultivating erotic intelligence here, but let's be very clear. 0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:45.360 When I talk about erotic intelligence, it's not about teaching 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:48.200 people to have sex or better sex. People have done 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:52.080 sex for centuries and sometimes felt nothing. Women all over 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:54.880 the world know that. What I'm interested in is how 0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:57.720 do you help people experience a sense of aliveness centuries 0:16:57.720 --> 0:17:01.440 of sex? Yes, yes, yes, sis when it was a 0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:04.359 duty and an obligation, or when it is or when 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:07.600 when people can naturally dispose of you. There is not 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:12.080 much talk about pleasure, about excitement, about intimacy, about connection. 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:17.360 Run are you on your phone? M h, no listening? 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:21.200 So I'm not interested so much in sex. I'm interested 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:24.040 in the poetics of sex, the meaning we give to it, 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:28.080 what makes it totally human. Yes, but back to the aliens, 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:32.440 I mean, maybe they're just way better. Maybe they're better 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:35.359 at sex and love than us because they haven't advanced 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:38.159 alien sex. So what, I can't do anything with it. 0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:39.720 I don't know where they are and they haven't come 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:42.200 to teach me, so I can only rely or the 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:46.480 government doesn't want us to know. Oh, you're in that one. 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:51.440 I'm just saying you just provocative. I watched your Ted 0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:55.720 talk Rethinking infidelity, a talk for anyone who has ever loved, 0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:57.920 and I got a lot out of it. And call 0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:01.960 me old fashioned, but I believe infidelity is wrong. It's 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:08.880 the ultimate betrayal. What what are your thoughts? Infidelity has 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:13.240 existed since marriage was invented, and so to the taboo 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:18.159 against it, it has been practiced in Tao, it's forbidden. 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:21.560 I only know taboo of the men's colonne or is 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:26.000 it a female colonne taboo? I think it's it's in 0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:29.320 a marvelous scent. It's like a dusky Motels. It is 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:32.840 a dusky Motels. But it really takes me back. But 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:38.320 what just to my childhood. Um, but having an affair, 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:43.240 isn't it just it's fundamentally so here's the thing. Unless 0:18:43.320 --> 0:18:46.600 you're away on assignment right work in news, and it 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:50.680 can be a real pressure cooker. But here here's how 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:54.920 I will quickly answer you on this one. It has 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:58.359 been there forever. It's often seen as black or white, 0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:01.240 good or bad, right or wrong, and it is a 0:19:01.280 --> 0:19:06.480 lot more complicated than that. It's beyond painful, it's beyond confusing. 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:10.880 It throws entire relationships into disarray. And I thought that 0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:13.040 we need to find a way to address it with 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:17.320 more nuance and more complexity than just straight flat out 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:23.280 judgmental nous that just troys sometimes even very good relationships. 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:26.879 And I wanted to think about the kids. I wanted 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:30.480 to think about the entire social community that surrounds couples. 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:34.040 And to just go into this it's wrong. It's the 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:36.919 worst thing that some people can do. I wanted to 0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:41.240 also say that a lot of couples deal with varieties 0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:48.399 of relational betrayals made right classic example, that's not the 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:52.120 one I'm talking about. I'm actually saying something different. I'm 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:55.080 saying that there is lots of different ways people betray 0:19:55.240 --> 0:20:01.680 each other and that it's not just a perpetrator victim story. Wow, 0:20:02.640 --> 0:20:04.399 did you hear all of that in the Ted talk? 0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:09.399 That part I missed because you were in your childhood? Well, no, 0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:13.879 because I had to run to the bathroom. Yes, I 0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:15.960 made you do that to fulfill you know, I and 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:18.199 I also had to fill up a big bowl of 0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:24.520 chips pringles. Look, can I get personal with you for 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:28.000 a moment. That's what people do with I'm recently out 0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:31.800 of a relationship and it ended mutually on good terms. 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:35.680 We are we're both were very mature about it. And 0:20:35.720 --> 0:20:39.240 here's a bit about us too successful driven And I 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:42.440 don't know if this complicates it even more, but it's 0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:45.880 a fact. We're both of us are famous people. Fame 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:49.000 was involved. I was, I was in a celebrity couple. Okay, 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:51.320 you might want to ask this privately off the air. No, No, 0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:54.400 it's fine. Everyone knows that I was dating the international 0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:57.959 pop Starcia and I don't know what it was esther, 0:20:58.119 --> 0:21:01.080 But we really, we really connect. There was a balance 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:05.119 we brought each other and the only problem was our schedules. 0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:07.359 Do do you have any advice for those who find 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:12.560 themselves in a long distance relationship. If you're going to 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:15.080 be in a long distance relationship, you want to mark 0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:18.199 time differently since you don't have the every day to 0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:22.000 come home later. They contact, they contact the regularity. So 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:25.359 what so you you create a different architecture of time 0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:29.160 in the relationship where you meet. It's very intense during 0:21:29.200 --> 0:21:31.680 a few days, sometimes the week, the two and then 0:21:31.880 --> 0:21:35.080 you are a part. I think sometimes the most important 0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:37.080 thing is not to have the space in between, the 0:21:37.200 --> 0:21:40.360 dead space, but to find a way to make that 0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:44.720 remain vibrant in the relationship. And that means not that 0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:46.919 you have your cameras on where both people are in 0:21:46.960 --> 0:21:51.080 the kitchen talking about you know, so no no camera 0:21:51.119 --> 0:21:53.119 crews following you in your day to day if you 0:21:53.119 --> 0:21:56.840 can help it. No, it's I think actually letter writing 0:21:56.960 --> 0:22:01.399 is way more powerful. Letter writing the lost art of 0:22:01.480 --> 0:22:04.800 how people used to sit to take a letter, open 0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:07.520 it and immerse themselves in it and spend time with 0:22:07.560 --> 0:22:10.359 another person who's not there but were so immediate and 0:22:10.400 --> 0:22:12.480 palpable at the same time. But what if you don't 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:19.080 know how to write in cursive my letter it's chicken 0:22:19.119 --> 0:22:24.040 scratch type type of way. Type of ways. So written 0:22:24.200 --> 0:22:26.960 is very powerful, but type of way to go and 0:22:26.960 --> 0:22:30.960 send an email, but it is there's something about writing 0:22:31.480 --> 0:22:34.720 and about sitting with someone's words that kind of enter 0:22:34.800 --> 0:22:38.680 you like that that is extremely powerful for long distance relationships. 0:22:40.160 --> 0:22:43.400 When when we finally got to see each other, it 0:22:43.480 --> 0:22:47.440 was so white hot the passion we missed each other, Yes, 0:22:47.480 --> 0:22:49.800 but you had to imagine so many things alone that 0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:52.320 when the other thing that when seeing each other did 0:22:52.359 --> 0:22:56.080 not manifest according to your dreams and expectations, then it 0:22:56.160 --> 0:23:00.840 became big disappointments. You nailed it, because everybody is alone, 0:23:00.880 --> 0:23:02.520 they're thinking, when I'll see you, this is what's going 0:23:02.560 --> 0:23:04.280 to happen. This is what's going to happen, and then 0:23:04.320 --> 0:23:06.800 they see the real person and if that doesn't happen, 0:23:06.800 --> 0:23:08.680 then they feel like there's such a gap between the 0:23:08.840 --> 0:23:10.879 She'd be like, why do you leave the toilet seat up? 0:23:10.920 --> 0:23:14.960 And I'm like what, because yeah, that was a common 0:23:15.040 --> 0:23:21.480 argument that there our fight. Isn't that a terribly boring thing? 0:23:21.560 --> 0:23:23.880 That this is what it comes down to, the toothpaste 0:23:23.960 --> 0:23:29.359 and toilet It's so banal. I don't know if you 0:23:29.359 --> 0:23:31.640 can judge it. It's just what we was our trigger, 0:23:32.160 --> 0:23:34.560 the toilet seat thing, failing in the ball is a 0:23:34.680 --> 0:23:37.920 terrible feeling. But you know, this is where I would 0:23:37.960 --> 0:23:40.359 say to you, one of the most important ways to 0:23:40.440 --> 0:23:45.720 diffuse absurd arguments is the humor, rather than taking the 0:23:45.800 --> 0:23:48.159 toilet seats so literal that this is a sign that 0:23:48.240 --> 0:23:51.159 you would fly into such a rage. I take a 0:23:51.280 --> 0:23:54.480 sledgehammer and destroy the toilet. It looks like you want 0:23:54.480 --> 0:23:57.400 your toilet seat down. Fine, then you'll have no toilet, 0:23:57.520 --> 0:24:02.160 and now you have no relationship. I'm toilet. I can't 0:24:02.160 --> 0:24:04.920 do better. You know, I'm not totally over it with Cia. 0:24:04.960 --> 0:24:09.320 I'll be honest, I'm a wreck. And I mean we 0:24:09.320 --> 0:24:12.360 we were intellectual equals. Say that. I still don't know 0:24:12.520 --> 0:24:14.960 how it was a thing that you were dating Cia. 0:24:15.080 --> 0:24:21.840 Oh come on, Carolina, grow up, um doc, I've got 0:24:21.840 --> 0:24:25.400 such a rigorous schedule recording this podcast, and and see 0:24:25.440 --> 0:24:27.960 it was also very busy with touring and shooting music 0:24:28.080 --> 0:24:31.520