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Speaker 1: The idea that aliens would come from space was much

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Speaker 1: more palatable to the general public than the idea of USOS,

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Speaker 1: which was considered pure science fiction fantasy. I fast forward

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Speaker 1: now to present day, when people are having very serious

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Speaker 1: discussions about USOS in Congress.

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Speaker 2: We have basically mapped Mars better than we have mapped

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Speaker 2: the oceans. Our oceans are more of a mystery to

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Speaker 2: us currently than Mars. I think, I'm Bryce s Able.

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Speaker 2: Have you ever wondered if there's a secret connection between

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Speaker 2: Hollywood and UFOs and.

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Speaker 1: I'm Brent Friedman. You are listening to Sound, Light and Frequency.

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Speaker 2: Hey, on this episode of Sound, Light and Frequency, we're

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Speaker 2: ticking the f out of UFOs and we're swapping in

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Speaker 2: an S for USOS Unidentified submerged Objects. Now, for decades,

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Speaker 2: we have been trained by movies, by headlines, and even

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Speaker 2: by our own neck muscles to look straight up. But

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Speaker 2: what if some of the most important unknowns are in

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Speaker 2: the sky at all? What if they're down there in

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Speaker 2: the deep, in the trenches and the places we haven't

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Speaker 2: even mapped because the pressure would turn us into pancakes.

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Speaker 2: Hollywood has been quietly rehearsing that idea for a long

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Speaker 2: time back in nineteen eighty nine, Cameron gave us the

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Speaker 2: Abyss that was a first contact story, but Jules Verne

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Speaker 2: in hg Wells long before we're down there treating the

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Speaker 2: sea like outer space before cinema even could. And then

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Speaker 2: there's Atlantis, which is basically the original Plato myth that says,

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Speaker 2: what if the ocean is hiding a whole nother world?

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Speaker 2: And you can add in the modern iterations Aquaman Namur,

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Speaker 2: even TV shows like Stargate Atlantis, which makes the submerged

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Speaker 2: city idea and turns it into a literal portal, and

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Speaker 2: you start to see a pattern. We keep coming back

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Speaker 2: to the water because we want to hide the impossible,

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Speaker 2: because here's the thing. If usos are real, and it

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Speaker 2: increasingly looks like they are, then all those underwater NHI

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Speaker 2: stories stop being just entertainment. They become a kind of

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Speaker 2: cultural X ray what we fear, what we hope, and

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Speaker 2: what we suspect me already be in the neighborhood. I'm

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Speaker 2: brice Able and speaking of oceans. I was born on

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Speaker 2: the Oregon Coast. I live on the California coast now

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Speaker 2: and Brent Friedman, my co host, lives on an island

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Speaker 2: in Washington State, So all I can say, Brent is

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Speaker 2: come on in Water's fine.

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Speaker 1: I am recording this from my island paradise up here

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Speaker 1: on San Juan's. You know, it's interesting listening to your intro.

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Speaker 1: I was looking back on the first couple episodes we've done,

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Speaker 1: which we're all about UFOs that came from space, interstellar, interdimensional,

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Speaker 1: and as you said, now we're going to kind of

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Speaker 1: take a deep dive into USOS, and it naturally brings

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Speaker 1: up The Abyss, a wonderful film by James Cameron, and

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Speaker 1: like Steven Spielberg, James Cameron's one of the most successful

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Speaker 1: directors in Hollywood, and he's also, like Steven Spielberg, made

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Speaker 1: a handful of alien movies, starting with Aliens in nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty six and then the Avatar trilogy starting in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and nine, which is still going strong today. But

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Speaker 1: it's really his nineteen eighty nine movie The Abyss, which

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Speaker 1: has prompted a lot of online speculation that Cameron, again

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Speaker 1: like Spielberg, might have had some insider information about UAP,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's going to be a really interesting

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Speaker 1: topic for us to focus on in this episode.

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Speaker 2: It's a great film. I did enjoy seeing it again

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Speaker 2: now I think I've seen it three times, and it's

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Speaker 2: just fun. It's a fun movie. As I understand it,

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Speaker 2: this is something that Cameron was planning to do since

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Speaker 2: he was a kid. He wrote some kind of short

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Speaker 2: story or something about it, and then finally said, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I'm a big shot director who just did Aliens. Now

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Speaker 2: I'm going to try to do Aliens underwater. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The story you're talking about is that when he was

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Speaker 1: a teenager, he was very interested in diving, and he

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Speaker 1: went to some presentation and met a famous diver I'm

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Speaker 1: going to try and pronounce his name, Francis Felushka, and

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Speaker 1: apparently hearing about the experiences of this diver and some

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Speaker 1: of the technologies that were being invented at the time,

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Speaker 1: in particular that liquid oxygen breathing system, really sparked him

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Speaker 1: to create the story of the Abyss. At least that's

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Speaker 1: the official story that we hear. You know, I'm thinking,

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Speaker 1: before we go any further, why don't we give a

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Speaker 1: plot summary of what the Abyss is about in case

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Speaker 1: someone hasn't seen it. I'll do the honors this time.

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Speaker 1: The story follows the civilian crew of an underwater oil

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Speaker 1: rig recruited by the Navy to investigate a sunken nuclear submarine.

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Speaker 1: This leads to a tense encounter with mysterious, intelligent aquatic

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Speaker 1: aliens who challenge humanity's violent nature. At the center of

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Speaker 1: this is the estranged relationship between the oil rigs foreman

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Speaker 1: Bud and his engineer wife Lindsay, as they put aside

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Speaker 1: their differences and put both their lives at risk to

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Speaker 1: complete the mission.

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Speaker 2: That's pretty good reading of it. Interestingly enough, it starts

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Speaker 2: out almost like the plot of Armageddon, that famous comet

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Speaker 2: movie with Bruce Willison. It because he and his gang

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Speaker 2: are oil workers and you know they need to go

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Speaker 2: stop a comet. But what do they do. Well, let's

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Speaker 2: get some oil workers and let's send them to the

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Speaker 2: comet to do it. At least these guys are doing

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Speaker 2: the right thing. They're going to the bottom of the ocean.

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Speaker 2: And I have to say, there are many things to

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Speaker 2: like about the Abyss. There's a few things not to

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Speaker 2: like about it, but there are many things to like

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Speaker 2: about it. And most of all is that liquid breathing.

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Speaker 2: The idea that you can fill a helmet up with

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Speaker 2: a liquid and you're breathing. I mean, I think there's

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Speaker 2: almost nothing as closedphobic that I can imagine as having

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Speaker 2: somebody put a helmet on me, fill it with a liquid,

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Speaker 2: and then tell me don't worry, just relax, it's going

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Speaker 2: to be fine, which is what they basically tell Ed

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Speaker 2: Harris in the movie. And I guess it is fine.

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Speaker 2: But that's how he gets down to this city, which,

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Speaker 2: if I remember correctly, is like four miles under the ocean.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, it's deep. It's down to the point where

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Speaker 1: obviously no human has ever been before. I agree though

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Speaker 1: the liquid breathing thing was the scariest part of the

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Speaker 1: movie for me. I couldn't get past that. There's no

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Speaker 1: way I could do that. But the couple other interesting

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Speaker 1: things jumped out at me. For one, when I first

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Speaker 1: saw the movie, I had a different recollection in my

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Speaker 1: mind of the craft were underwater craft, and then the

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Speaker 1: aliens were angelic manta rays, if you will. But watching

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Speaker 1: it again, the craft are actually biological entities. I think

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Speaker 1: they call them machines but alive. That really was interesting

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Speaker 1: because I'm sure at the time that was absolutely revolutionary.

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Speaker 1: No one had ever considered the alien craft being biological entities.

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Speaker 2: Now, I guess I could be accused of stealing it

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Speaker 2: because I wrote it into my nineteen ninety three movie

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Speaker 2: Official Denial. The craft they shoot down has a big

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Speaker 2: hole in it, and then it heals itself because it's

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Speaker 2: partially biological. But honestly, that isn't that crazy of an

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Speaker 2: idea anymore, because what is the thing that David Grush

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Speaker 2: has his favorite word in his testimony before the House

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Speaker 2: Oversight Committee seemed to be biologics? Yes, and I always wonder, well,

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Speaker 2: do you mean bodies or things that are biologically alive?

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Speaker 2: Or what exactly does that mean? And it easily could

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Speaker 2: be that part of the craft is a biological organism.

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Speaker 2: We don't really know, but certainly that's true with what

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Speaker 2: Cameron did, and he plays this very interestingly. At first,

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Speaker 2: of course, is they're underwater to do this rescue mission,

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Speaker 2: they start seeing things, littler things, and the tension builds

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Speaker 2: and they're wondering, what are we seeing? Then these do

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Speaker 2: look like craft, and it isn't until you get toward

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Speaker 2: the late middle part of the movie where you actually

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Speaker 2: go down and realize, holy shit, there's a whole group

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Speaker 2: of something living down there, which is kind of disturbing.

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Speaker 2: Although if you really start to think about what we

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Speaker 2: are being told these days, just through release of documents, etc.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of concern that there are things in

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Speaker 2: the ocean, and that those things in the ocean may

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Speaker 2: also be the things that we see in the sky

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Speaker 2: because of trans medium characteristics. So Cameron was probably ahead

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Speaker 2: of the curve on a lot of things. Now. It's

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Speaker 2: interesting though, because they don't actually make clear in the

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Speaker 2: movie exactly what's going on, who exactly these creatures are, whatever,

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Speaker 2: But they did do a book serialization after the movie

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Speaker 2: was released, and that states that what's down there is

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Speaker 2: a colonizing species that sought a high pressure, deep water

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Speaker 2: world in order to build new ships as they travel

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Speaker 2: further into the galaxy. Which I have to say, I'm

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Speaker 2: a human being, so I'm going to react to water

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Speaker 2: the way people react to water. You know, some people

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Speaker 2: love being in the water. Some people are nervous about

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Speaker 2: being the water. I like being in the water, but

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Speaker 2: I don't think I could build anything in the water.

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Speaker 2: I feel like I need a sterile room to build

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Speaker 2: craft or ships. So I don't really know how they

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Speaker 2: were doing that. But that's certainly part of it. Here

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Speaker 2: are some quotes from Cameron about alien life being in

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Speaker 2: these hidden oceans, and these are just a few that

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Speaker 2: we picked out at random. One of them he said,

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Speaker 2: if there's another species in the cosmos that's advanced, it's

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Speaker 2: probably not living on Earth. Well, okay, then he said,

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Speaker 2: it's more likely living on a subsurface ocean somewhere like

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Speaker 2: Europa or Ensuladis. Is that right, insulatus? I don't think so.

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Speaker 2: Who knows, you know what. I'm not even going to

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Speaker 2: get into all the things that Cameron has said, but

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Speaker 2: he clearly believes in at least making alien movies. But

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Speaker 2: do we have any evidence he actually believes that aliens

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Speaker 2: are here now and that they may or may not

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Speaker 2: be in e Osians. That's the question I have.

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Speaker 1: He has not been forthcoming with that information. I think

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Speaker 1: all we can do is take him at face value

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Speaker 1: in terms of the stories he told. One thing I

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Speaker 1: will say is that in the movie he does have

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Speaker 1: the character of Bud obviously encounter the aliens at some

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Speaker 1: point when he takes them onto the ship. And by

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Speaker 1: the way, a lesson he did not learn from Steven Spielberg,

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Speaker 1: whom apparently he's a big fan of When Steven Spielberg

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Speaker 1: took us into the ship in Close Encounters, a lot

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Speaker 1: of people groaned and moaned and said, all the magic

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Speaker 1: had been taken out of the movie, right, And of

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Speaker 1: course when we go into the ship at the end

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Speaker 1: of the Abyss, that was actually, in my mind, the

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Speaker 1: weakest part of the movie, right, because all of the

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Speaker 1: mystery and the magic was gone, and now we're in

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Speaker 1: a set. That being said, one of the things that

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Speaker 1: the aliens tell Bud is that they are friends of humanity,

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Speaker 1: and they have been living on the earth a long

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Speaker 1: time and have chosen to leave us alone. But then

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Speaker 1: the only reason that they are intervening now is they

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Speaker 1: are becoming aware that we are hurting each other and

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Speaker 1: we need to grow up a lot.

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Speaker 2: How nice of them. I'm touched. I'm so deeply touched

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Speaker 2: by that. Let's see if we can clarify this. I've

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Speaker 2: seen the Abyss movie three times. I saw it when

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Speaker 2: it first came out in nineteen eighty nine, and I

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Speaker 2: do not recall an ending where we see tidal waves

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Speaker 2: about to destroy cities. And then there was a director's

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Speaker 2: cut version where he added almost an hour's worth of

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Speaker 2: stuff to it. And that's where I do recall the

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Speaker 2: wave about to destroy cities. And I don't even know

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Speaker 2: if that was the director's cut, that was just an

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Speaker 2: enhanced version. Yeah, maybe I'm thinking about the director's cut.

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Speaker 2: We both just saw together. That does take us there,

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Speaker 2: and I agree he certainly did a credible technical job.

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Speaker 2: But by the way, we don't actually believe in spoilers.

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Speaker 2: It sound light and frequency, partly because this movie is

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Speaker 2: close to forty years old now, so if you haven't

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Speaker 2: seen it, you can't really write us letters about spoiling things.

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Speaker 2: At the end, though, the aliens are about to take

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Speaker 2: out a bunch of these aliens in the ocean are

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Speaker 2: going to take out cities because they're sending title waves,

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Speaker 2: and because Bud professes his love for his soon to

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Speaker 2: be xife or his current ex wife. I don't remember

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Speaker 2: whether they're actually divorced or not, but they stopped the

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Speaker 2: title waves in mid wave, and that seemed a bit fanciful.

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Speaker 1: One other thing I wanted to point out that I

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Speaker 1: think it's really interesting and I had completely forgotten about it.

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Speaker 1: We use this term USO and people have adopted it widely.

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Speaker 1: We're hearing it in congressional hearings. But in the movie

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Speaker 1: they make reference to underwater aliens and they use the

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Speaker 1: term NTI non terrestrial intelligence. I had never heard that before.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't remember hearing it. I'm sure i'd

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Speaker 1: heard it in the movie the first couple of times

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Speaker 1: I saw it, but I haven't heard it recently, and

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Speaker 1: I haven't heard it used in public discourse. So I'm

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Speaker 1: wondering what's wrong with NTI. It actually sounds pretty interesting

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Speaker 1: to me.

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Speaker 2: It is a mystery. The biggest mystery is who actually

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Speaker 2: gets to name these things? Who actually first came up

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Speaker 2: with UAP? And I know there's an answer to it.

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Speaker 2: I think it was actually used sometime in the fifties

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Speaker 2: or sixties. I don't have that in front of me,

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Speaker 2: but not embraced. It didn't get embraced until the government

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Speaker 2: decided that, hey, we're probably going to tell people a

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Speaker 2: little bit about this mystery, so instead of calling them UFOs,

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Speaker 2: let's embrace this UAP thing. It won't have the same

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Speaker 2: stigma around it and we can start moving forward. So

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Speaker 2: there is that interesting thing about the ABYSS. Though it's

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Speaker 2: beautifully made, there's nothing wrong with the movie. Other than

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Speaker 2: we can parse whether the ending is right or not.

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Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, you kind of

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Speaker 2: ask yourself, did Cameron actually hear anything from anybody about

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Speaker 2: the actual likelihood of alien life in the ocean? And

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Speaker 2: unlike Spielberg, I haven't been able to turn up anything

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Speaker 2: where anybody's actually even pointing a finger at that. Have

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Speaker 2: you and your research found anybody saying, you know that

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Speaker 2: James Cameron he got briefed into the program.

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Speaker 1: I have not heard anyone say it that directly, but

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Speaker 1: I have seen in various chat rooms and whatnot people speculating.

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Speaker 1: And it goes to the simple fact that if you

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Speaker 1: look at this movie when it came out, nobody was

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Speaker 1: talking about usos, right, and now that's one of the

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Speaker 1: main things people are talking about. And so how could

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Speaker 1: he have been so far ahead of the curve to

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Speaker 1: tell a story about, like you said, a whole underwater

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Speaker 1: city of aliens highly advanced? And that just be pure imagination,

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Speaker 1: which then coincidentally is being borne out to be true,

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Speaker 1: at least by a lot of whistleblowers who we have

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Speaker 1: to take at face value when they put their hand

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Speaker 1: on a bible and take an oath and go in

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Speaker 1: Congress and talk about it. So I think that's where

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Speaker 1: the speculation comes from. But no, I have not heard

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Speaker 1: anyone directly say with Steven Spielberg that he has taken

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Speaker 1: a deal.

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Speaker 2: I've heard more people say because I watched all the

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Speaker 2: extras that came with the film today, with the director's cut,

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Speaker 2: it sounds like a lot of the actors were ready

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Speaker 2: to go strangle cameraon after the shoot because it was

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Speaker 2: a super hard shoot and these guys were wearing, you know,

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Speaker 2: we're down in the water for six to eight hours

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Speaker 2: a day or something crazy like that, and of course

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Speaker 2: they didn't have quite the same ability to communicate. It was.

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Speaker 2: In fact, in some cases, I don't think they actually

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Speaker 2: had communication in the suits themselves. So it was an

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Speaker 2: extraordinarily difficult thing. But the one thing that also struck

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Speaker 2: me though, is we always talk about UFOs going in waves,

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Speaker 2: and that's been true. You go through the fifties, the sixties,

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Speaker 2: the seventies, there's always years where there's a UFO wave.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes we have waves in movies. Obviously, you know when

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Speaker 2: I was saying about Armageddon a while ago, I believe

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Speaker 2: that came out in ninety eight and another movie that

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Speaker 2: came out that same year was Deep Impact. You have

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Speaker 2: two movies released at the same time about a comet

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Speaker 2: that's going to hit Earth and having to go out

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Speaker 2: and stop it. Well, interestingly enough, in the same exact

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Speaker 2: year that The Abyss came out, there were three movies

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Speaker 2: released that year about underwater aliens. There was, of course

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Speaker 2: The Abyss, but there is also a very semi popular

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Speaker 2: movie called Leviathan back then, and then there was a

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Speaker 2: Corman low budget one called Lords of the Deep. So

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Speaker 2: sometimes when ideas are in the air, they're in the air.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes that's just the way it's gonna be. Now, I

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Speaker 2: have to say I never saw Lords of the Deep.

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Speaker 2: Never really watch a lot of Corman movies. I think

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Speaker 2: I did see the Leviathan, but I really can't tell

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Speaker 2: you one simple thing about it, can you.

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Speaker 1: I think there was about a big sea monster.

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Speaker 2: Yep, that's it. It's a big sea monster. Telling the

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Speaker 2: big sea monsters had been a thing over the years.

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Speaker 2: I believe there's a big sea monster in twenty thousand

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Speaker 2: leagues under the sea. I think that's the driving thing there.

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Speaker 2: So I guess you could call a giant sea monster.

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Speaker 2: You wouldn't call it an alien, so it's not really

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Speaker 2: an alien movie. But we don't know if that sea

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Speaker 2: monster was intelligent. If it was, then it would be

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Speaker 2: an NTI or an Nhi, as you pointed out. So

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Speaker 2: I don't really know. But clearly the idea that they're

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Speaker 2: out there and under there is something that these movies

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Speaker 2: profoundly floated. And yet I have to say, we know

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Speaker 2: that Abyss was a really really big film and a

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Speaker 2: lot of people saw it, and the people that saw

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Speaker 2: it talked about it, but it didn't really put into

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Speaker 2: the UFO conversation among the UFO community that these things

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Speaker 2: are possibly in Erosans and if they are in Erosians,

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Speaker 2: what are they doing? Are they living there? Are they

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Speaker 2: hiding there? What are they doing there? And in the

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Speaker 2: serialization book that they put out about the Abyss, they

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Speaker 2: were building ships. And one thing that always struck me,

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Speaker 2: and I don't remember actually where I read this, but

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Speaker 2: somebody was sort of positive, why would they be here

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Speaker 2: on Earth? Well, that they could have been here all along,

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Speaker 2: so they may is relevant to Earth as we are,

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Speaker 2: we may share Earth. But another thing is water is

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Speaker 2: very very important in the universe. It's not as common

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Speaker 2: as you might think, and we are a water planet. Now,

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Speaker 2: say you were an adventurous spirit from a water planet

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Speaker 2: and you heard about Earth and you came here to Earth,

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Speaker 2: would you set up a location in the desert or

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Speaker 2: would you go to the ocean. If you were from

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Speaker 2: a water planet, you'd go to the ocean. So, for

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Speaker 2: all we know, they've been there thousands of years. They

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Speaker 2: came from someplace else, and you know, we really really

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Speaker 2: just don't know.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's true. I mean, we do know that all

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Speaker 1: life needs water. All life is largely comprised of water.

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Speaker 1: So it does make a lot of sense that if

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Speaker 1: you have an interstellar even interdimensional race, that they're going

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Speaker 1: to probably feel most comfortable in water. That would be

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Speaker 1: one of the unifying kind of elements cross any world,

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Speaker 1: any planet. One of the things I want to talk

348
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Speaker 1: about that struck me as interesting is, yes, there were

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Speaker 1: those movies all in the same year, but there's been

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Speaker 1: some other big Hollywood directors that have made some underwater

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Speaker 1: alien movies as well, starting with Sphere made by Barry

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Speaker 1: Levinson in nineteen ninety eight, and then also Battleship made

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Speaker 1: by Peter Berg in twenty twelve. Obviously, none of those

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Speaker 1: two were not as successful as the ABYSS. But I

355
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Speaker 1: think what's interesting is look at them kind of stacked up,

356
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Speaker 1: and look at the difference in the stories they tell,

357
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Speaker 1: very so different. The ABYSS, which came out first, told

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Speaker 1: a story of benevolent aliens, and by the way, that

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Speaker 1: was made with no participation from the military. Sphere told

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Speaker 1: a story of neutral aliens who kind of reflected humanity

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Speaker 1: spears back on them. That was made without participation of

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Speaker 1: the military as well. Battleship, though, which was last that

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Speaker 1: came out again in twenty twelve, that was a story

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Speaker 1: of hostile aliens, and that was made with the participation

365
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Speaker 1: of the Navy. So it's interesting to me that the

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Speaker 1: one movie that the military got behind was the one

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Speaker 1: that featured the hostile aliens.

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Speaker 2: No mystery there, really, if you think about it. Quite

369
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Speaker 2: often the military has turned down working on various movies

370
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Speaker 2: because they say, we're just going to look bad, and

371
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Speaker 2: why should we help you prove UFOs are real if

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Speaker 2: we don't believe in them. In Battleship, of course, the

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Speaker 2: military looks really good. I mean this alien Expeditionary Force.

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Speaker 2: I guess in Battleship, the twenty twelve movie shows up

375
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Speaker 2: and we end up having to fight them with the

376
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Speaker 2: very best that our Navy's got and we send them packing.

377
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Speaker 2: So from a military cooperation point of view, that's precisely

378
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Speaker 2: what you'd think they would want to do. Just one

379
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Speaker 2: actual thing about Sphere. By the way, Sphere and Battleship

380
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Speaker 2: did pretty good at the box office, they weren't movies

381
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Speaker 2: that no one's ever heard of. Sphere is interesting, though.

382
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Speaker 2: It uses that standard thing where something has happened and

383
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Speaker 2: you've got to go collect the team and get them

384
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Speaker 2: together to go investigate. So that's how Sphere starts. Dustin

385
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Speaker 2: Hoffman's and at Sharon Stone's in it. The concept of

386
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Speaker 2: the film is that there is a giant craft on

387
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Speaker 2: the bottom of the ocean, which certainly sounds like aliens,

388
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Speaker 2: and they're sent down there to look into it. And

389
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Speaker 2: this craft has been there since the seventeen hundreds, which

390
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Speaker 2: I kind of loved that when I first heard that

391
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Speaker 2: that was the concept of the movie. That's what made

392
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Speaker 2: me go see Sphere. I thought, that's pretty cool because

393
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Speaker 2: that's a mystery wrapped inside of a riddle, inside an

394
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Speaker 2: enigma kind of thing. I can't wait to figure out

395
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Speaker 2: what that's going to be. All about. But when they

396
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Speaker 2: get down there, and again I'm sorry, but we just

397
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Speaker 2: don't do spoilers on thirty some year old movies. But

398
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Speaker 2: they get down there and it's not an alien craft.

399
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Speaker 2: It's got US logos on it down there. So somehow

400
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Speaker 2: this is a craft from the future that ended up

401
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Speaker 2: crashing into the ocean in the seventeen hundreds and is

402
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:09,480
Speaker 2: found in whatever year's sphere is made. So it's alien light,

403
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,720
Speaker 2: it's not quite alien, and it doesn't really say anything

404
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:16,440
Speaker 2: to us about whether aliens are real or not existing

405
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,240
Speaker 2: in the water, whereas Battleship doesn't say that they're here

406
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Speaker 2: in our water. It says they've come here. So what

407
00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:26,200
Speaker 2: really for me made Abyss stand out is the idea

408
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Speaker 2: that this was another civilization that actually lived here on

409
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Speaker 2: Earth at the same time as us, and was a

410
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Speaker 2: mystery in itself. So anyway, I liked all three of those,

411
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Speaker 2: but each one brings something different to the party, you know.

412
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Speaker 1: The last thing I will say is I was doing

413
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Speaker 1: some research on the state of mind of the public

414
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Speaker 1: with regards to UFOs back in eighty nine, and the

415
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:58,400
Speaker 1: idea that aliens would come from space was much more

416
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Speaker 1: palatable to the general public. Then then the idea of USOS,

417
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Speaker 1: which was considered pure science fiction fantasy. But again, I

418
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Speaker 1: fast forward now to present day when people are having

419
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Speaker 1: very serious discussions about USOS in Congress. So it raises

420
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Speaker 1: this question in my mind the ABYSS does is was

421
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Speaker 1: it a coincidence that Cameron somehow imagined USOS nearly forty

422
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Speaker 1: years before they became a legitimate, verifiable reality. Maybe maybe not,

423
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Speaker 1: I don't know. It does open the door in terms

424
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Speaker 1: of was this a consciousness play? You know, as you

425
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Speaker 1: mentioned between those three movies that came out all at

426
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Speaker 1: the same year as the ABYSS. How is that possible?

427
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Speaker 1: You said it's something in the air? Well is it

428
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 1: something more specifically in the collective consciousness? These ideas are

429
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 1: just out there and they're being pulled down at the

430
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,160
Speaker 1: same time, or are they being planted by some non

431
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 1: human intelligence that says it's time to start telling these stories.

432
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 1: Obviously we can't answer those questions, but it's fascinating to

433
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:05,360
Speaker 1: me to even ask them.

434
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you, I do like asking them, and

435
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 2: I'm frustrated sometimes that we can't answer them. We're just

436
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:14,919
Speaker 2: talking about Yes, Cameron is a leader, a trendsetter and

437
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 2: all that. We didn't start us down this road. Back

438
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 2: in eighteen ninety six, HG. Wells wrote a short story

439
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:26,879
Speaker 2: called In the Abyss, which I found kind of intriguing.

440
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 2: And in that one, he's got a tale about a

441
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 2: thrill seeking inventor who drops five miles to the ocean floor,

442
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:38,119
Speaker 2: there by beating Cameron by an entire mile of ocean depth.

443
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 2: I believe he goes down there in a steel sphere

444
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 2: and he returns, of course, with his mind scrambled, and

445
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 2: a story about a bioluminescent amphibious and this is a

446
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,199
Speaker 2: quote people of the Abyss who mistake him for a

447
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 2: god before he vanishes. So even HG. Wells was saying

448
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:02,360
Speaker 2: what if? What if there are creatures? And this is HG.

449
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 2: Well's writing before he wrote War the Worlds. I think

450
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 2: his next project after writing In the Abyss was War

451
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 2: of the World's. So I'll find that pretty fascinating.

452
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, And obviously another question we cannot answer is

453
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 1: did James Cameron read that short story at some point

454
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 1: and was inspired by it. Possibly. I had never even

455
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 1: heard of it, and I was a big fan of HG.

456
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 1: Wells growing up, so so interesting that that story has

457
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 1: been brought to the surface, as it were, because it

458
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 1: also makes you realize that well before we started contemplating

459
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:41,439
Speaker 1: the idea that the government might be informing entertainment with

460
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 1: their agenda of disclosure and disinformation, there were people telling

461
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 1: stories that had no agenda other than just getting published

462
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 1: and having an audience as far as we know, and

463
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 1: so between Jules Verne with his story of twenty thousand

464
00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: leagues under the Sea and HG. Wells with his story

465
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 1: in the Abyss, we've got stories that were being told

466
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 1: well before anyone could even contemplate these type of ideas.

467
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 1: I can't imagine what it would have been like to

468
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 1: be alive at that time reading that and thinking about

469
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 1: the ocean in that way holding under seat, because I

470
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 1: was pretty stunned to watch the Abyss, So reading a story,

471
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 1: you know, at the turn of the twentieth century would

472
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:25,919
Speaker 1: have just blown my mind.

473
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 2: I just want to put a steak in the Abyss?

474
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 2: Is that too many mixed metaphors? Can you put a

475
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,160
Speaker 2: steak in the Abyss? I don't think you can. But Nietzsche,

476
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 2: we can deflate the ability out the air out of

477
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 2: you just to put the water steak In. He said,

478
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 2: if you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks

479
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:48,120
Speaker 2: into you. Now I don't know exactly what he meant there,

480
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 2: but that dude he was thinking. He was thinking early on,

481
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 2: and I've always enjoyed that quote. But the other thing

482
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 2: I just wanted to say is what makes the ocean

483
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 2: so interesting for this topic in film but also in reality,

484
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 2: of course, is that we have basically mapped Mars better

485
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,440
Speaker 2: than we have mapped the oceans. Our oceans are more

486
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 2: of a mystery to us currently than Mars. I think

487
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:15,439
Speaker 2: because we put landers on Mars, we've basically sent craft

488
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,679
Speaker 2: around Mars to map everything. But we don't have the

489
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 2: ocean all mapped. And there's just a lot of people

490
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 2: who deal with the ocean on a regular basis who say,

491
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,719
Speaker 2: we don't know the half of it. Other things that

492
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,239
Speaker 2: are kind of interesting that would explain how you can

493
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 2: possibly have something living on the bottom of the ocean, though,

494
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 2: is if you think about it. We've been told that

495
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 2: the UFOs are traveling at such incredible speed, say twelve

496
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,399
Speaker 2: thousand miles an hour, that if a human being was

497
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 2: in it, it may one of those extreme right turns.

498
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 2: They would be just a puddle of blood because of

499
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,639
Speaker 2: the pressure. And the same is true if you go

500
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 2: down to some of these depths four or five miles

501
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 2: and even further, we would be killed instantly, and we

502
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,120
Speaker 2: have to have equipment to go do it. But that's

503
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 2: one of the things that Louel Azana has been talking

504
00:27:57,880 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 2: about in his book and other people have been talking

505
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 2: about that whatever is behind the technology that is behind

506
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 2: this phenomena as we perceive it, is able to do

507
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 2: something about space time and create a situation where those

508
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:17,120
Speaker 2: things are physically possible, even though they don't look physically possible.

509
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 2: And that certainly seems to be true because there are

510
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 2: reports of craft that are underwater that have been tracked

511
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 2: that appear to be going two hundred miles per hour,

512
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 2: and even though it's classified how fast a nuclear submarine

513
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 2: can go, the best guess is maybe forty miles an hour, so,

514
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 2: and some of these craft that are seen underwater are

515
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 2: much larger than our nuclear submarines. There are several football

516
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 2: fields long and cruising along, not cruising, zipping along through

517
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 2: the ocean. So I'm not really sure exactly what's going on,

518
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 2: but just to complete the sort of the riff about

519
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 2: what other films and things have been on. Of course,

520
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 2: the film a lot of people grew up on was

521
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 2: The twenty Thousand Leagues under the Sea. There was also

522
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 2: Mysterious Island which preceded it, so you had the vern

523
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 2: and the Wells people there. But the first major film film.

524
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 2: There were some serials that came out. I believe there

525
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 2: was a serial in nineteen thirty six about Undersea Kingdom,

526
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 2: but there was one called The Atomic Submarine in nineteen

527
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 2: fifty nine where there were aliens in the Arctic here

528
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 2: to conquer. I tried to watch it, you know, I

529
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 2: got halfway through it and I said, I just I

530
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 2: believe in sound, light and frequency, and I want to

531
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 2: be a good citizen of sound, light and frequency. But

532
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 2: I can't do this.

533
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 1: So I all had it exact same experience.

534
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 2: You know. Some of these movies just don't date that well.

535
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 2: But they have big ideas but small budgets. And that's

536
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 2: part of the problem with writing UFO. I've run into

537
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 2: it myself, and so of you. You write a big

538
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 2: idea movie that requires a Spielbergian budget, and instead you're

539
00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 2: getting a lifetime budget and you can't do as much

540
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 2: field to the Bottom of the Sea. By the way,

541
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 2: I don't know this precede. I mean, you were barely

542
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 2: a zygote at the time this was on television, but

543
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 2: that was one that a lot of people were very into.

544
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 2: And it's interesting there's always mission creep on these things.

545
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 2: I think when Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea

546
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,479
Speaker 2: started in the sixties, it was really kind of like

547
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 2: twenty thousand leagues the submarine going around looking at the world,

548
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 2: and then they ran into monsters, and then pretty soon

549
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 2: they had to start running into aliens. So lots of movies.

550
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 2: People have been talking about it for a while. No

551
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 2: real evidence from my view that I've been able to

552
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 2: turn up that any of those people writing earlier were

553
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 2: told anything or new anything. No same here.

554
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: I do think that in looking at that list we

555
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 1: put together, the one movie that I had forgotten was

556
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 1: about under sea aliens was Cocoon, the Ron Howard movie

557
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:56,719
Speaker 1: from I think nineteen eighty five that actually hinted that

558
00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: some Atlanteans had come back and were doing stuff in

559
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: a rest home up on Earth upon the surface. Anyway,

560
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: I guess the point being is that even though most people,

561
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 1: when you ask them, have you ever seen a movie

562
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: about underwater aliens. They're probably going to say, I saw

563
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 1: the abyss, maybe they saw sphere, maybe they saw battleship,

564
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: and the rest is all a blur. But let's take

565
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: this on too dry land now and look at the

566
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 1: real world. One of the other things that I think

567
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 1: is fascinating is in the category of where there's smoke,

568
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 1: there's fire your partner on need to know, Richard Dolan

569
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 1: has become the expert, I would say, the reigning expert

570
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 1: right now on usos. He went out, I guess to

571
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 1: write one book, but you can probably tell this story

572
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: better than I. He went out to set up to

573
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 1: write one book and is now actually writing three books

574
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: that look at six hundred and seventy two cases across

575
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 1: over one hundred years. Well, you've said everything I know

576
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: about that now. No, Actually it is interesting Dolan. Richard Dolan,

577
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 1: and he and I wrote the ad after just closure books,

578
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 1: so I know I'm going back to that, and so

579
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 1: I know the speed he writes books, and I know

580
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 1: how intelligent he is and what a thorough writer is.

581
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 2: But when he told me this story was shocking. He

582
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 2: set out, as you mentioned, he was going to write

583
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 2: a book about usos. That was the goal. And he

584
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 2: found so many cases, six hundred and seventy two, and

585
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 2: by now I'm sure he's found a few more, but

586
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 2: there were so many he decided to write a trilogy

587
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 2: of books. Now, I got to tell you that's not

588
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 2: something I would ever do, but he's capable of doing it,

589
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 2: and I've read the first book, and those cases. He's

590
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 2: doing it in chronological order. Those cases of usos go

591
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 2: back to the seventeen hundreds. All I can say is this,

592
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 2: If you want to know more about the specific hardcore

593
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 2: science and or history of this, you probably should read

594
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:56,959
Speaker 2: Richard Dolan's book, because this is happened many many times

595
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 2: and usually observed by more more than one person. Because

596
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 2: you've got a ship and people call people out to

597
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 2: take a look at it, and there areft scene in

598
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 2: the air going in the water, there's craft in the water,

599
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 2: scene coming out into the air. That's called trans medium travel.

600
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 2: You see a lot of that stuff, a lot of

601
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 2: great cases. And I know we're going to come back

602
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 2: to some more of those cases, and I know that

603
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 2: you've had a sighting yourself. I want to talk about

604
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 2: Atlantis in a minute, but I think this might be

605
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 2: a great time for you just to tell us you've

606
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 2: actually had a personal experience where you actually saw a USO.

607
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 1: So lay it on as my friend. Well, yes, thank you.

608
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: That is why reading through some of Richard's stories and

609
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 1: listening to some of his interviews online about some of

610
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 1: his favorite cases that he's been researching, they really resonated

611
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: with me because I heard a lot of description of

612
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 1: almost identical experiences or aspects of my experience that I

613
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 1: had had. And so let me set the stage. It

614
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: was August twelfth, twenty twenty three, if you remember, that

615
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 1: was the period of the Perseed meteor showers, and just

616
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: by coincidence, I happened to be on Vancouver Island on

617
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,759
Speaker 1: the northern part up near to Fino, and I got

618
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 1: wind that these meteor showers were happening. It was beautiful

619
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,359
Speaker 1: weather up there, and I thought, you know what, I'm

620
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 1: going to go out onto the beach tonight and take

621
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: a pair of binoculars and go watch these meteor showers.

622
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:29,360
Speaker 1: So I went out there and I you know, it

623
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,359
Speaker 1: was probably eleven o'clock. It was you know, a night,

624
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 1: so pretty late. But there was a lot of people

625
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 1: out there who had a very similar idea to me.

626
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 1: So scattered along this whole moonlit beach, we're all out

627
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 1: there kind of watching, and sure enough, I don't know

628
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 1: if anyone actually had the opportunity to see it, but

629
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 1: I was. We were seeing, you know, big streaks of

630
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: light as these meteors were coming. And because it was

631
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 1: you know, we're pretty far up north, the sky felt

632
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 1: like it was only like twenty feet away, like you

633
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 1: could reach out and touch. They were so big and

634
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:06,240
Speaker 1: so bright. So we're having this experience, and I noticed

635
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 1: that other people are watching through their binoculars, and I'm thinking,

636
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 1: you know, I don't need binoculars to see these are

637
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 1: like right in my face. But maybe there's I can

638
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 1: see more, Maybe there's more details. So I put on

639
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,720
Speaker 1: the binoculars and I start kind of scanning the sky's

640
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 1: waiting for the meteor shower, and lo and behold, I

641
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:27,760
Speaker 1: see these small dots that look probably the same size

642
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 1: as any of the stars in the starfield start to move.

643
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,360
Speaker 1: And there's two of them, and they're moving kind of

644
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 1: in parallel, and they're moving in a diagonal direction, and

645
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, one of them splits off

646
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 1: and goes a different direction. And the other one keeps

647
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:49,399
Speaker 1: going and then stops and goes straight up. And I'm

648
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 1: I'm watching this thinking what am I looking at? Those

649
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 1: can't be planes. And let me just for the record say,

650
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 1: I have never seen a UFO before. I know many

651
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 1: people that have. It's not that I ever wanted to

652
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 1: or didn't want to. I wasn't looking for them on

653
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 1: this night. But it was clear to me that these

654
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:15,760
Speaker 1: were not stars. This was not star link or whatever

655
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: Elon Musk shoots up into the sky. These were two

656
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 1: little dots of light that were moving around in impossible trajectories.

657
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 1: If they were human craft. Well, I took the binoculars down,

658
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 1: looking to see if anyone else was noticing this. I

659
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 1: didn't notice that. But what I realized I couldn't see

660
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 1: them with my naked eye. I could only see them

661
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 1: when I had the binoculars on. So I kept watching,

662
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden a couple more came through. Well.

663
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 1: I watched this for about forty five minutes. They would

664
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 1: shoot across, they would move down, they would dance around.

665
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 1: It was almost like they were playing tag or something

666
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,280
Speaker 1: up in the sky. And then all of a sudden,

667
00:36:55,280 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: one would just disappear until I saw one come straight

668
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 1: down and go all the way in to the water,

669
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 1: right off to the west coast. And I, you know,

670
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 1: obviously knew about usos at this point, and I thought, Wow,

671
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 1: that was exactly what people talk about. There was no

672
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 1: I didn't see. I had the binoculars. I did not

673
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 1: see a ripple. It didn't look like it changed the

674
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 1: water's surface at all. It just disappeared down into the water,

675
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 1: and within about another five minutes I saw another one

676
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,839
Speaker 1: do the exact same thing. Now I don't know how

677
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 1: else to explain what this could have been. If this

678
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: was a plane it crashed, it would have been in

679
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 1: the news the next day, right If it was a helicopter,

680
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,919
Speaker 1: if it was anything any kind of human craft doing

681
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 1: any of the movement that I saw, it would have

682
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:51,360
Speaker 1: been a tragedy. I heard nothing the next day, nothing

683
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 1: about it. Well, anyway, at the end of the night,

684
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:57,760
Speaker 1: once the meteor showers kind of left, several other people

685
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 1: were all chattering about the same thing. Did you see

686
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:02,839
Speaker 1: those UFOs? Did you see that stuff up in the sky?

687
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 1: So I was not the only one. And interestingly, the

688
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 1: next day I saw a couple of the people that

689
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 1: were out there talking. They didn't say anything about it.

690
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:16,800
Speaker 1: It was all just, you know, interesting little tourist sighting

691
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 1: and back to your lives.

692
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 2: That's fascinating that people, But that's been reported over and

693
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 2: over again. You made a distinction about you couldn't see

694
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:29,800
Speaker 2: them with your bare eyes, but then you used your binoculars,

695
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 2: and I suppose that makes sense, and the binoculars are

696
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 2: supposed to make things easier to see. But do you

697
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 2: make any more of that. Were the binoculars revealing something

698
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,240
Speaker 2: because of a filter or a lens or something.

699
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 1: So that's a great question. I really can't answer it

700
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,800
Speaker 1: in that I've spent you know, a couple of minutes

701
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 1: going binoculars, no binoculars, binoculars, but trying to understand why

702
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 1: I couldn't see the UAP with my naked eye. When

703
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 1: I looked through the binoculars, they were, as I said,

704
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: the exact same size and brightness as stars. But I

705
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 1: have to believe that if I was seeing them, they

706
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,800
Speaker 1: were much closer. So was it an optical illusion? I

707
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 1: don't know. I know that you know you've heard reports

708
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 1: before of people saying I couldn't see the UFO until

709
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:21,279
Speaker 1: I looked through a lens right until and a lot

710
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:23,319
Speaker 1: of times you're hearing about special filters and that kind

711
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 1: of thing. There was no special filter on the binoculars.

712
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 1: They were just binocular.

713
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 2: Sometimes people say I didn't actually see anything, and then

714
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 2: we were taking photos and I saw it in the

715
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 2: photo later kind of thing, Right, Yeah, So I.

716
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 1: Think it's it's it's doesn't make any sense on the

717
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:41,399
Speaker 1: surface because they for them to be moving around and

718
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 1: going into the water here on Earth, they have to

719
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:48,360
Speaker 1: be much closer than stars in the sky. But I

720
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 1: could see the stars in the sky and I couldn't

721
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 1: see them with my naked eye. So I really have

722
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,399
Speaker 1: no explanation for it. If anything, it just gives more

723
00:39:56,440 --> 00:40:01,319
Speaker 1: credence to the fact that there's something anomalous about these

724
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 1: objects that are flying around in our skies.

725
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 2: Well, I don't have a personal story to match that one,

726
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 2: although I'm fascinated by it and it makes me believe

727
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,440
Speaker 2: it's probably a more common thing than we think that

728
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 2: it can be seen. I do happen to, though, have

729
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 2: a couple of other cases that sort of amplify on

730
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,439
Speaker 2: what Brenda is saying that sort of take it from.

731
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,720
Speaker 2: If he's at the one vision it kind of takes

732
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 2: the POV in a little bit. There was one case

733
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 2: which many people have heard about in Agudya, Puerto Rico,

734
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,760
Speaker 2: and they saw a UAP that was near their airport

735
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 2: and they tracked it by a helicopter from the US

736
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 2: Department of Homeland Security. Now many people have seen this video.

737
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 2: It's kind of widely out there right now. First they

738
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:50,279
Speaker 2: thought maybe it's a drug runner, you know, maybe it's

739
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 2: a drone or whatever. But the object was small, it

740
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:57,799
Speaker 2: was asymmetrical, and it was being monitored by this helicopter.

741
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 2: And then when it seemed to be away it was

742
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 2: being monitored, it zipped away. The pilots watched as it

743
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,319
Speaker 2: headed out across an airfield and headed straight for the

744
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:10,880
Speaker 2: open waters of the Atlantic. So this is where the

745
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 2: story gets really interesting and kind of mind blowing. The

746
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 2: helicopter pursues it and it dives in the ocean, just

747
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:21,439
Speaker 2: as you suggested in your story, Brent, And that ought

748
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 2: to be the end of the story, right this thing

749
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 2: is disappeared in the ocean. Okay, Well, wow, that was crazy,

750
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 2: kind of interesting. What to make of it? We have

751
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 2: a little video from Department of Homeland Security, But what

752
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:39,240
Speaker 2: instead happens, is this thing pops up out of the ocean. Again,

753
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 2: it's gone in the ocean. Now it pops up out

754
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 2: of the ocean. And when it does, just when you think, well,

755
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 2: that would be weird enough, wouldn't it, you see something

756
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 2: on the land, goes out, disappears in the ocean. Okay,

757
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 2: that was interesting. Now it comes out of the ocean. Okay,

758
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 2: that should be the end of the story. No, not

759
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:56,919
Speaker 2: the end of the story. It splits itself into two

760
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:00,800
Speaker 2: seemingly different craft after it comes out of the ocean. Whoa,

761
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 2: and then it disappears from view. And all the time

762
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:06,840
Speaker 2: it does this, it doesn't make a splash or awake.

763
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:12,280
Speaker 2: So these when we talk about anomalists, well that's anomalist, baby,

764
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:13,359
Speaker 2: I mean that. Yeah that.

765
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 1: It doesn't get more anomalists than that. As we come

766
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,359
Speaker 1: to the end of the episode here, I think an

767
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 1: interesting way to try and bring all of this together

768
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 1: is we start to look for is there a common

769
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 1: denominator to some of the movies we've talked about, some

770
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 1: even some of these real life reports that we've heard,

771
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 1: And well, if you guessed it, if you guess the Navy,

772
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 1: then give yourself a gold star, because the Navy seems

773
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:41,759
Speaker 1: to be at the center of many of these stories

774
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 1: in different ways, whether they were cooperating with the filmmakers

775
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,359
Speaker 1: or whether they were the stars of the movie, as

776
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 1: in The Navy Seals and the Abyss. I think the

777
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:56,280
Speaker 1: Navy is something that oftentimes is counterintuitive to how people

778
00:42:56,280 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 1: think about UAP. Right in terms of who's investigation and

779
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 1: who's connected to the UAP, you almost always go to

780
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:07,239
Speaker 1: the Air Force. But yet there's so many ways to

781
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 1: connect the Navy based on things we've heard and things

782
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 1: that have even happened to us. So, for instance, if

783
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 1: we go back and we talk about the guy who

784
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 1: offered us the deal, our friend JC, he was from

785
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 1: the Office of Naval Intelligence, John Harrington, who disclosed to

786
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 1: me was the Undersecretary of the Navy before becoming Secretary

787
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 1: of Energy in Reagan's second term, And as a nod

788
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:38,239
Speaker 1: to John Errington, we made Frank Bachi and also one

789
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 1: last Dark Sky's point, we even had an episode set

790
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 1: in Vietnam called White Rabbit, where our Frank Back character

791
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 1: was out trying to recover a crashed UFO in the

792
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 1: Gulf of Tonkin, which, of course, in typical Dark Sky's fashion.

793
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 1: We said, the revisionist history version is this is what

794
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:57,960
Speaker 1: started the Vietnam War. So yes, we had some fun

795
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 1: with that, but I think there's some real world connections.

796
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 1: And then that also takes us all the way back

797
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:08,280
Speaker 1: to those congressional hearings where several pilots got up again

798
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 1: put their hand on a bible and took an oath

799
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 1: and talked about that famous tic tac in the Nimitz case,

800
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 1: all of which involved the oceans, and these.

801
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 2: Are Navy pilots. One of the things that's been clear,

802
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 2: and it drove Chris Mellon, who's one of the leaders

803
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 2: of this Soule Disclosure movement MAD, which is the Air Force,

804
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 2: when they were told by Congress to put forward cases

805
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 2: barely cooperated and the Navy did cooperate. And so it

806
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:40,319
Speaker 2: does make clear one thing. When we were approached by

807
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:43,919
Speaker 2: these folks that said they were from Office of Naval Intelligence,

808
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:49,399
Speaker 2: they did make it clear that they were impressed that

809
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 2: we recognized the Navy's leading role by naming one of

810
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 2: our characters a guy from the Navy. The guy from

811
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 2: the Navy was running Majestic twelve in our series. So

812
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 2: there's that I do know that even on a need

813
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 2: to know with Back when I was doing it with Coltheart,

814
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 2: we did a whole episode about the Air Force versus

815
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 2: the Navy. The Air Force, of course, they're the guys

816
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 2: that did Project Blue Book, which many people thought was

817
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 2: kind of a half baked cover up for the many

818
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 2: years it was going on. And now the Navy seems

819
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 2: to be stepping forward a little bit, and that kind

820
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 2: of makes this whole topic relevant. Now. I know we

821
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 2: don't have a lot of time, Brent, but I got it.

822
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:32,719
Speaker 2: Can I talk Atlantis for just a little bit of time? Yes, absolutely,

823
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 2: I forgot. We need to talk about Atlantis, and I

824
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:38,720
Speaker 2: hope you'll take a little side trip through the Bermuda Triangle,

825
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 2: which is also another fasciating part of the lore. Here's

826
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 2: the thing that makes Atlantis interesting to me. It's basically

827
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 2: the Swiss Army Knife of mythology. Okay Plato started it,

828
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 2: of course, but you pop open this Swiss Army Knife

829
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 2: and what do you have in the middle of Atlantis.

830
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 2: You got a lost Golden Age, You've got a global catastrophe,

831
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:02,720
Speaker 2: you've got moral warning, geopolitical thriller, treasure hunt, superhero Kingdom,

832
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 2: Sci fi portal conspiracy engine. I mean, it's got everything,

833
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:09,720
Speaker 2: and it is a myth that comes with its built

834
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 2: in production value. It already has a movie spinning in

835
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:15,799
Speaker 2: your head. If you're hearing this right now, you can

836
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 2: think about the massive architecture, the glowing technology, and of

837
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 2: course it's tragic downfall, it's survivors, it's secrets, and as

838
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 2: we've said during the show, many people have mentioned Atlantis.

839
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:31,360
Speaker 2: I mean, think about it. Marvel and DC have Aquaman

840
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:35,359
Speaker 2: and Namar and interesting sidebar by the way, Namar first

841
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 2: appeared in nineteen thirty nine and he was the leader

842
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 2: of Atlantis. Aquaman didn't show up for two more years

843
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 2: nineteen forty one, but also the leader of Atlantis. Atlantis

844
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 2: is just a big deal. Now. There is a movie

845
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,920
Speaker 2: that a lot of people remember called Atlantis The Lost Kingdom,

846
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 2: and I know a little bit about that because about

847
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:58,479
Speaker 2: a million years ago in Hollywood terms anyway, about five

848
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:01,880
Speaker 2: development cycles maybe. But my wife Jackie and I wrote

849
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:06,800
Speaker 2: the treatment and the outline for Atlantis at the very beginning,

850
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:09,400
Speaker 2: and so we've really had to steep ourselves. There was

851
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:12,720
Speaker 2: no Internet or chat GPT for us to look into

852
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 2: to do our research at that time. So we had

853
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 2: to fall into Atlantis research quite a bit and we

854
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 2: had a great time doing it. And what we ended

855
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 2: up doing originally is I don't know what this reflects

856
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 2: on UFOs, but it reflects maybe on me. Because Jackie

857
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,720
Speaker 2: and I went into Disney. They wanted us to write

858
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:35,400
Speaker 2: some dialogue for Hunchback of Notre Dame, which was going

859
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 2: to be coming out, and we said, ah, we're going

860
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 2: to pass because the truth is, the movie's already been done,

861
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:45,440
Speaker 2: there's no credit to be had, and this is not

862
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 2: our thing. You don't want to pay much money, will pass.

863
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:50,879
Speaker 2: So we passed on Hunchback of Notre Dame and we said, Hey,

864
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 2: what we'd really like to do is create something from scratch,

865
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 2: and so Disney said, you can do Atlantis. We said great,

866
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 2: and I remember getting a great note from Disney. They said,

867
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:04,400
Speaker 2: you know, great job you guys. The story you pitch

868
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:08,719
Speaker 2: really came together. And so what we ended up doing

869
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:11,840
Speaker 2: with Atlantis is just taking seriously that there was a

870
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:15,360
Speaker 2: city at the bottom of the ocean. But one of

871
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:18,360
Speaker 2: the things we had to ask ourselves when writing Atlantis

872
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:23,759
Speaker 2: is it a human civilization or is it an alien civilization?

873
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 2: It could be either we kind of opted for human

874
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 2: because that's the Plato thing, right, this city sinks to

875
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:33,800
Speaker 2: the bottom of the ocean, well, by then they'd be hybrids,

876
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:36,240
Speaker 2: I guess, is what our take was. There'd be certain

877
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 2: powers and mysteries about it. We had a great time

878
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 2: Atlantis mystifies people to this day, and well, I'm not

879
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 2: sure that we'll ever find a real Atlantis at the

880
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 2: bottom of the ocean. We very well may find some

881
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 2: kind of life, intelligent life at the bottom of the ocean,

882
00:48:54,680 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 2: which would be really fascinating to me. So I guess

883
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 2: the question really becomes is this a myth or is

884
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 2: it something that sort of touches a basic human understanding.

885
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:14,799
Speaker 2: Plato acted like it was the real thing? But come on, right,

886
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:17,880
Speaker 2: how would he know? I mean, how would Plato have

887
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:21,319
Speaker 2: known that it was this real civilization that passed away?

888
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:23,960
Speaker 2: What knowledge had he been imparted with? I don't know,

889
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:25,400
Speaker 2: So I'll just go through it to you. Do you

890
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:27,520
Speaker 2: think we'll ever find a real Atlantis? What do you

891
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 2: have a take on that.

892
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:30,880
Speaker 1: I don't know if we'll find a real Atlantis, but

893
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 1: I do feel that it seems to me that we're

894
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 1: finding increasing evidence of ancient civilizations that we weren't aware of,

895
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 1: and so whether one of those turns out to be Atlantis,

896
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:45,759
Speaker 1: it really wouldn't surprise me. I think that the more

897
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:49,960
Speaker 1: research and exploration I do, the more I start to realize.

898
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 1: You know, a line from Dark Skies that we use

899
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 1: was history, as you know, it is a lie. And

900
00:49:57,719 --> 00:49:59,800
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot more to history than we

901
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 1: right now. I think that jumping off into the Atlantis

902
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:08,880
Speaker 1: from the Atlantis idea. Atlantis was also one of the theories

903
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 1: of it is that it's in the Bermuda Triangle, right,

904
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 1: And that's why the Bermuda Triangle has all of this

905
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:17,840
Speaker 1: lore written about it. It was first written in a

906
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:20,960
Speaker 1: book by Charles Burlitz in nineteen seventy four and it

907
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 1: led to a bunch of documentaries and movies. And I

908
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:27,680
Speaker 1: think the Bermuda Triangle is so interesting because instead of

909
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:31,719
Speaker 1: saying there's weirdness throughout the whole ocean, it concentrated it

910
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:34,400
Speaker 1: in one area. It's like, well, the rest of the

911
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 1: oceans are safe, but the Bermuda Triangle. Never go into

912
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 1: the Bermuda Triangle. But of course, bringing everything full circle,

913
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:44,400
Speaker 1: I did not know this until we were preparing for

914
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:47,280
Speaker 1: this episode. There was actually a Naval Air Force station

915
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 1: in Bermuda right near the Bermuda Triangle, and even today

916
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:55,479
Speaker 1: it still has detachments for operations that are going on there.

917
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:59,840
Speaker 1: And also several whistleblowers have come forward and said, oh no,

918
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 1: there's a whole underground alien base in the Bermuda Triangle

919
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:06,200
Speaker 1: and that's why there is a naval base there. And

920
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:10,400
Speaker 1: this base has ancient humans on it and maybe that's Atlantis,

921
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:14,200
Speaker 1: I don't know, requoting myself. Where there's smoke, there's fire,

922
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:18,720
Speaker 1: six hundred and seventy two cases that Dolan is investigating,

923
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 1: everything that we've just talked about, plus all of the

924
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:27,319
Speaker 1: congressional hearings, plus these whistleblowers, I think, let me bring

925
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 1: back one last James Cameron quote to put it all

926
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:34,440
Speaker 1: in context. He said, from what we know now, submersibles

927
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:38,240
Speaker 1: have only seen about five percent of the ocean bottom,

928
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:41,319
Speaker 1: so we know more about the surface of the Moon

929
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 1: in Mars than our own deep ocean.

930
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 2: Absolutely, it's crazy. And by the way, just to bring

931
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:51,760
Speaker 2: this back, this actually relates back to Spielberg because remember

932
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:55,279
Speaker 2: in Close Encounters, which we talked about a few episodes ago,

933
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 2: what happens at the very beginning a number of aircraft

934
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:02,040
Speaker 2: from World War Two, and they're pilots are returned aircraft

935
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 2: attack gas still in the tank, pilots kind of numbed

936
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:09,319
Speaker 2: but alive and unaged. Well, that kind of goes back

937
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 2: to this flight nineteen, which was in nineteen forty five.

938
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:15,359
Speaker 2: There was a disappearance of US Navy, five of them

939
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 2: US Navy bombers. So that's a lot of where that

940
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 2: stuff started. That planes would fly in and disappear into

941
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:26,880
Speaker 2: the I don't know, some kind of portal vacuum ocean.

942
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:29,040
Speaker 2: I don't know where they were supposed to be going.

943
00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:31,879
Speaker 2: I just wanted to throw one thought out here. We've

944
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:34,600
Speaker 2: talked a lot about the ocean, and of course that

945
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:39,240
Speaker 2: is hugely important when you're talking about USOS scientifically, I guess.

946
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 2: But remember it's not just the ocean. These UFO usos

947
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:48,480
Speaker 2: have been seen over rivers, they've been seen over lakes.

948
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 2: Bodies of water are important, yes, reservoirs. They have been

949
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:57,359
Speaker 2: seen literally hovering over bodies of water with water being

950
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:02,239
Speaker 2: funneled up into the craft supposedly. So don't know what

951
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:04,959
Speaker 2: that's all about. I know that even if we're talking

952
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 2: about movies, think about The Man who Fell to Earth

953
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:11,319
Speaker 2: with David Bowie in nineteen seventy six and then they

954
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:13,759
Speaker 2: made the mini series about it in twenty twenty two.

955
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:17,040
Speaker 2: Why was he here? He was here because his drought

956
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 2: stricken planet needed water and he was building a craft.

957
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 2: I never understood this part of the movie. He was

958
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 2: supposedly building a craft to bring water back to his

959
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 2: star planet. How big would that craft have to be

960
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:33,760
Speaker 2: to bring Very ambitious. It is an ambitious plan. Possibly

961
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 2: more on that later in our series as we talk

962
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:39,880
Speaker 2: about these things. But water is important. It gives life.

963
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:41,680
Speaker 2: We have a lot of it here on Earth. We

964
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:45,080
Speaker 2: have fresh water, we have salt water, and somebody's interested

965
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:48,040
Speaker 2: in it and maybe somebody is living in it. So

966
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:51,040
Speaker 2: I feel like that's an important thing. But I will

967
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:54,480
Speaker 2: throw a closing comment out with a prediction, and that

968
00:53:54,520 --> 00:54:00,080
Speaker 2: would be filmmakers are apt to watch what's going on

969
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 2: in sort of the dialogue that affects society, and many

970
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:08,360
Speaker 2: of them increasingly are paying attention to the whole UFO

971
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 2: UAP issue. And these are people who are going to

972
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:16,920
Speaker 2: hear about USOS. This is not something that people have

973
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:19,680
Speaker 2: been focused on, but now they're starting to. Now they're

974
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:22,440
Speaker 2: starting to. So I think we are apt to get

975
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 2: a movie or two in the reasonably near future where

976
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:29,040
Speaker 2: somebody tries to go back to that I was going

977
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:31,000
Speaker 2: to say, go back to that ground, I don't know what,

978
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:35,400
Speaker 2: back to the bottom of that particular ocean environment and

979
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:39,040
Speaker 2: try to find a story. I don't think these movies

980
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:42,479
Speaker 2: and TV series we've talked about are over at all.

981
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:46,840
Speaker 2: It's a mystery. And sometimes the way we try to

982
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:50,040
Speaker 2: resolve the answers to mysteries is we make movies and

983
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:53,960
Speaker 2: TV series and video games and all that about them.

984
00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:57,080
Speaker 2: And that's probably going to happen here again too. I

985
00:54:57,120 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 2: completely agree. I look forward to it as well, because

986
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:02,360
Speaker 2: I was interested in this topic. But as we've studied it,

987
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:06,560
Speaker 2: and we've looked backwards and we've looked into transcripts and

988
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:09,120
Speaker 2: all sorts of things, I am deeply fascinated by this

989
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:11,920
Speaker 2: topic now, and it's actually caused me to kind of

990
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,600
Speaker 2: reframe the central question you always hear, which is are

991
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:16,719
Speaker 2: we alone in the universe? I think the question I

992
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:19,200
Speaker 2: have now is how many races do we share this

993
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 2: planet with? Oh? Well, I gave a speech from Palm

994
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:26,799
Speaker 2: Desert this weekend. This last weekend, and somebody asked that question.

995
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:29,920
Speaker 2: They said, well, how many kinds of intelligent life are

996
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 2: out there? And I'm like, hey, I'm glad to play

997
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:35,319
Speaker 2: an expert on a podcast, but I'm not that kind

998
00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:38,720
Speaker 2: of expert. I can't tell you how many, but it

999
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:41,279
Speaker 2: does appear when you sort of see the characteristics more

1000
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:43,560
Speaker 2: than one. Certainly in the movies it's more than one.

1001
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:46,200
Speaker 2: I mean that much. We can say there's a full

1002
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:49,400
Speaker 2: collection of life out there, just waiting for you and

1003
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:53,360
Speaker 2: me to watch it on the screen and talk about it. Anyway,

1004
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:56,440
Speaker 2: It's been good. One final thought here, though, You were

1005
00:55:56,480 --> 00:55:59,360
Speaker 2: talking about the Nimetz case, and that is the Navy,

1006
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 2: But it's the famous two thousand and four case which

1007
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 2: was largely Navy pilots chasing and or being chased by

1008
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:12,040
Speaker 2: some kind of UAP and multiple people seeing it seeing

1009
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 2: it on radar. But what's interesting about the case from

1010
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:17,560
Speaker 2: a USO point of view, just throw this out there.

1011
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:22,759
Speaker 2: What David Fraverer and other pilots saw was this tic

1012
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:28,240
Speaker 2: tac craft UAP zipping around close to the ocean surface,

1013
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:32,280
Speaker 2: just you know, going quickly one way right, turn, boom,

1014
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:34,600
Speaker 2: just zig zig zag zig Like what I saw in

1015
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 2: the sky Like what you saw in the sky. Cheers everybody. Calculator, Sound, Light,

1016
00:56:43,239 --> 00:56:46,880
Speaker 2: and Frequency is an iHeart podcast produced by Stellar Productions.

1017
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:51,080
Speaker 2: It's executive produced by Nick Johnson and for Stellar Jackie's Abel.

1018
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:54,160
Speaker 2: Our show's music was written by Anna Stumpf and Hamilton

1019
00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:57,840
Speaker 2: Lighthauser and Your hosts and executive producers are Brice Abel,

1020
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:00,640
Speaker 2: That's me and Brent Friedman. Why this guise

1021
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:08,640
Speaker 1: H