WEBVTT - 110423 The Importance of Pronouns with Ted X Speaker Mea Chiasson (Part 2)

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<v Speaker 1>If you just tuned in a civic cipher. I am

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<v Speaker 1>your host Ramsey's job. Big shout out to my man

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<v Speaker 1>c Ward, who is out of the country again because

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<v Speaker 1>he's out there changing the world for the better. But

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<v Speaker 1>have no fear. It is business as usual around here.

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<v Speaker 1>I am joined in the studio by a very special guest.

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<v Speaker 1>My good friend Maya is here with us, discussing her,

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<v Speaker 1>he him, they them pronouns, and how important it is

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<v Speaker 1>to be acknowledged in the light that you choose for yourself,

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<v Speaker 1>and how we can be better siblings to our siblings

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<v Speaker 1>who are trans or identify as something other than what

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<v Speaker 1>they were born as. And I'm learning in real time

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<v Speaker 1>along with you, and so fortunately, I feel like this

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<v Speaker 1>is a great opportunity for all of us to gain

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<v Speaker 1>some insight into these other marginalized communities and hopefully find

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<v Speaker 1>more commonality, as is always the expectation and hope around here.

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<v Speaker 1>All Right, it is time for a b A becoming

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<v Speaker 1>a better Allied BABA, and today's BABBA is sponsored by

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<v Speaker 1>Friends of the Movement. You can sign up for the

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<v Speaker 1>free voter wallet from fotmglobal dot com to support black

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<v Speaker 1>businesses and allied businesses as well as make an impact

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<v Speaker 1>with your spending again. That's fotmglobal dot com. Today's reading

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<v Speaker 1>comes from Black Enterprise and according to an October eleventh

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<v Speaker 1>post by Flickshop, Arlington County Detention Center is bringing a

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<v Speaker 1>transformational entrepreneurship program to its inmates, providing them the tools

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<v Speaker 1>to rewrite their personal narratives and inspire hope for a

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<v Speaker 1>brighter future. This initiative, led by a flick Shop School

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<v Speaker 1>of Business, aims to expose individuals in detention to stories

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<v Speaker 1>of reinvention and success, shedding light on the possibility of

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<v Speaker 1>a fruitful life beyond incarceration. The FSB program was sparked

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<v Speaker 1>by Marcus Bullock, the CEO of flick Shop, who shared

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<v Speaker 1>his vision and the Aspen Ideals festival years ago. In

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<v Speaker 1>a recent workshop, instructors from flick Shop School of Business

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<v Speaker 1>introduce residents to the residence in the substance abuse treatment

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<v Speaker 1>program to the strategies Marcus leverage to build this professional

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<v Speaker 1>brand as an impact CEO and motivational speaker. The entrepreneurship

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<v Speaker 1>program empowered inmates with the tools to learn, grow, and

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<v Speaker 1>reshape their narratives. Bullock explained, when I sat in Fairfax

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<v Speaker 1>County Detention Center. I wanted to believe that I still

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<v Speaker 1>had value, but more importantly, I wanted to ensure that

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<v Speaker 1>there was a community that would not ostracize me because

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<v Speaker 1>of my mistakes. Response from the program participants has been

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<v Speaker 1>overwhelmingly positive. Aubrey Graham, one of the instructors, noted that

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<v Speaker 1>the guys were ecstatic and that they continued to receive

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<v Speaker 1>rave reviews. And we thought this was important because a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of times people that end up in the criminal

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<v Speaker 1>justice system are people who were poor and did not

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<v Speaker 1>have access or ideal circumstances, not necessarily bad people, and

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<v Speaker 1>so with a little bit of instruction and some alignment,

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<v Speaker 1>they can actually do well. Okay, So where we left

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<v Speaker 1>off was you were describing how trans a trans identity

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<v Speaker 1>and a trans narrative, the trans conversations, the ripple effect

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<v Speaker 1>of those conversations, and and that narrative is that other

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<v Speaker 1>people are coming to terms with different parts of their

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<v Speaker 1>own personalities and identities and so forth. And I want

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<v Speaker 1>you to mention the author one more time, just in

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<v Speaker 1>case there are people want to do more research. Can

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<v Speaker 1>we spell that just a l okay.

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<v Speaker 2>V A I D and then M E N O

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<v Speaker 2>n they're phenomenal. Uh yeah, and they're on Instagram. You

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<v Speaker 2>guys find them.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Okay, So, so here's what I wouldn't be doing

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<v Speaker 1>doing my job as a journalist if I didn't bring

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<v Speaker 1>up some of the things that other people are saying.

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<v Speaker 1>Some of these things I've heard personally. Okay, this is

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<v Speaker 1>not meant to amplify ignorance or hatred, but these are

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<v Speaker 1>things that exist in the world, and this is the

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<v Speaker 1>forum where we talk about these things. So I appreciate

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<v Speaker 1>you allowing me to do this. You know, I love

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<v Speaker 1>you with my whole heart. And I mean so, I

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<v Speaker 1>still want to be as kind as I can. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know how to not be him, So let's try

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<v Speaker 1>it this way. They them typically refers to more than

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<v Speaker 1>one person. People are being forced to use awkward language,

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<v Speaker 1>or if they forget or don't want to accommodate that

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<v Speaker 1>be labeled as a bigot. Is that fear to them?

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<v Speaker 2>H It's a good question. I think that. Well. First

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<v Speaker 2>of all, I think there's a huge difference between forgetting

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<v Speaker 2>and intentionally not using that language. Okay, because one is

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<v Speaker 2>one is human. It could also be that you change

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<v Speaker 2>your name and sometimes you forget you know when my

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<v Speaker 2>friends change pronouns, I have slip ups accidentally. I'm human

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<v Speaker 2>and even though they them is in my lexicon, if

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<v Speaker 2>I have a friend who starts using a pronoun that

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not familiar with, it's gonna take me a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit to adjust to that. And that's okay. I love

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<v Speaker 2>them with my whole heart. I show up for them.

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<v Speaker 2>People that I love in my life don't use they

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<v Speaker 2>them all the time and accidentally use she or just

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<v Speaker 2>really struggling with it.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's what I.

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<v Speaker 2>Know. You love me. I know where your heart is.

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<v Speaker 2>It'd be different if you to be like I refuse

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<v Speaker 2>to call you that. I think that. Then. I was

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<v Speaker 2>having a conversation with a friend about this recently as well.

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<v Speaker 2>I think the noun this is I'm going to try

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<v Speaker 2>to lay this out as much as makes sense. I

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<v Speaker 2>think the noun bigot is difficult because people can change.

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<v Speaker 2>I do believe that. I do think that. Also, that

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't mean we don't take accountability for our Like if

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<v Speaker 2>you are saying things that are bigoted, if you are

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<v Speaker 2>saying things that are transphobic, I still think that's true. However,

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<v Speaker 2>I do think that I don't want to necessarily condemn

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<v Speaker 2>people for being like that. It's necessarily like that forever.

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<v Speaker 2>One of my dearest dearest friends, when I first met him,

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<v Speaker 2>told him I used say them. He's like, I, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't like, I don't really get down with that. And

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<v Speaker 2>then over time, as we've talked, because he's someone who

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<v Speaker 2>really wants to grow, it's like, okay, let's talk about it.

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<v Speaker 1>I love you.

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<v Speaker 2>We're getting to know each other. And we met in

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<v Speaker 2>a context where if i'd met, you know, maybe if

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<v Speaker 2>we had met each other just on the street, I

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<v Speaker 2>probably wouldn't have wanted to be friends. But we had

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<v Speaker 2>this friendship develop and over time and now he almost

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<v Speaker 2>only uses say them, almost never slips up, and it's

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<v Speaker 2>really like, I want to understand you, and I want

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<v Speaker 2>to like understand what this means for you. Right, So

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<v Speaker 2>I think that there's like I just want to name that.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess that I think people aren't necessarily fixed. I

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<v Speaker 2>do think so I'm not necessarily gonna, I guess maybe

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<v Speaker 2>use the noun bigot, But I do believe that people

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<v Speaker 2>should also be accountable for their actions in the same

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<v Speaker 2>way that like, if you're doing something like there's been

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of like people don't want to be called racist, right,

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<v Speaker 2>but if you're doing things that are enacting white supremacy,

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<v Speaker 2>if you're doing things that are racist, you also need

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<v Speaker 2>to be accountable for your actions and for the impact

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<v Speaker 2>of that.

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<v Speaker 1>Can I add something right here? Go for it. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>So I'm glad you said that, because I was having

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<v Speaker 1>a conversation with with a dear friend of mine. This

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<v Speaker 1>was the pandemic was still going on. Yeah, so this

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<v Speaker 1>was a couple of years back.

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<v Speaker 2>But he.

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<v Speaker 1>Was very, very opposed to switching up the pronoun game, Like,

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<v Speaker 1>why do I need to switch up my pronoun game too,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, accommodate this new blah blah blah. Yeah. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>this friend of mine, just because it's important to the story,

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<v Speaker 1>because it identified it helps you to identify potentially what

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<v Speaker 1>his blind spots might have been. He's a white man.

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<v Speaker 1>I love him my whole heart. I'm as black as

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<v Speaker 1>a asspades. So he and his family, if they were

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<v Speaker 1>ever going to be racist or bigoted or anything like that,

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<v Speaker 1>it would have stopped when they met me. And I'm

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<v Speaker 1>known this whole family for decades, plural, very very close,

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<v Speaker 1>very good people, good good people. I want to make

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<v Speaker 1>sure I say that these are good people him in particular,

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<v Speaker 1>he says this to me, I don't want to switch

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<v Speaker 1>up my pronoun game, blah blah blah. And I'm like, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>how could you say this? Oh goutted. So we had

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<v Speaker 1>a back and forth again. I want you to see

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<v Speaker 1>his blind spots. You know what I mean, I says

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<v Speaker 1>to him. You know, once upon a time, my dear friend,

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<v Speaker 1>black people, we didn't want to be called certain things,

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<v Speaker 1>and we needed to affirm who we were, and we

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<v Speaker 1>needed to make it very clear who we were not.

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<v Speaker 1>We needed everybody to understand that, and it's challenging to

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<v Speaker 1>do that. I was not alive during the time that

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<v Speaker 1>I was envisioning in this story I was telling him,

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<v Speaker 1>But I know the people that were alive, A lot

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<v Speaker 1>of them their last few moments was hanging in a tree,

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<v Speaker 1>burning or getting beat or you know, the last moments

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<v Speaker 1>of their life were lived in horror, hearing the language

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<v Speaker 1>that they didn't want to be called any affirming their

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<v Speaker 1>humanity and fighting for their dignity. That's heavy, right. So

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<v Speaker 1>to this man that I love, and in this conversation

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<v Speaker 1>that I had with him, I learned, and he learned

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<v Speaker 1>a very significant parallel because I'm gonna I'm gonna say this,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean no disrespect to all of my trans brothers

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<v Speaker 1>and sisters. When the language is taught to me, that

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<v Speaker 1>is more sufficient than that I will use it. But

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<v Speaker 1>to my trans brothers and sisters and my l g B,

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<v Speaker 1>t q I A plus brothers and sisters, I will

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<v Speaker 1>say siblings. There we go. I like that. Okay that,

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<v Speaker 1>and again I mean no disrespect. But I want to

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<v Speaker 1>say this, Once upon a time it was fashionable to

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<v Speaker 1>be bigoted against black people. It's not fashionable to be

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<v Speaker 1>that anymore. Despite what we've seen in the past couple

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<v Speaker 1>of years, I know that in society, like advanced society,

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<v Speaker 1>you still got to got to get your racism off

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<v Speaker 1>and hush whispers in the corners still very powerful, has

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<v Speaker 1>a very significant impact on outcomes and shapes what we

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<v Speaker 1>how far people like me can go. Not every time,

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<v Speaker 1>but if we look at the numbers, you can see

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<v Speaker 1>it clear as day. Absolutely. But I say that to

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<v Speaker 1>say that nowadays, I think it is perhaps more or

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<v Speaker 1>fashionable to be bigoted out loud to my trans siblings.

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<v Speaker 1>And in that conversation with my dear friend, that parallel

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<v Speaker 1>certainly helps to illuminate the similarities. There's obviously more black people,

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<v Speaker 1>there's more terror that has lasted for longer time in

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<v Speaker 1>this country in the way that we would describe it.

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<v Speaker 1>But I don't think that we as a country changed

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<v Speaker 1>how we dealt with black people because we all of

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<v Speaker 1>a sudden started liking black people. I think that we

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<v Speaker 1>changed as a country how we don't black people because

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<v Speaker 1>it was the right thing to do, and if we're

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<v Speaker 1>committed to doing the right thing, then those parallels translate

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<v Speaker 1>and transfer quite easily to our trans siblings. The last

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<v Speaker 1>time we talked about this, I asked if we could

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<v Speaker 1>have this conversation, and you said not right now. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know if there was something there that requires maybe

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<v Speaker 1>a degree of you know, you have to be calculated,

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<v Speaker 1>or if it's just a lot you know, if I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know what life is like as a transfers. I

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<v Speaker 1>just learned that you were trans in this conversation, right,

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<v Speaker 1>I always know you were, Maya. That's the main thing

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<v Speaker 1>about you, and that's the thing that I've chosen to love.

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<v Speaker 1>And I don't even think I chose. I think that

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<v Speaker 1>it just kind of was going to happen either way.

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<v Speaker 1>But yeah, it hasn't changed. Yeah, of course not, of

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<v Speaker 1>course not. But I want to ask maybe why conversations

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<v Speaker 1>like this could be scary or overwhelming, because what I

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<v Speaker 1>don't want to have happen is we have a great

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<v Speaker 1>conversation today and then everybody's like, Okay, I remember that

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<v Speaker 1>one guy that went to high school with Hey, what's

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<v Speaker 1>up man? So you're trans, so let's talk about it.

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<v Speaker 1>You know what I'm saying. And I approached you in

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<v Speaker 1>that way where I was like, oh, it's type. Now

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<v Speaker 1>you got pronouns, let's turn the micro on, let's get

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<v Speaker 1>let's get something recorded, and you know it, just I

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<v Speaker 1>saw an approach that I saw you heed the gravity

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<v Speaker 1>of the conversation I was asking you to have, and

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<v Speaker 1>I would like for you to walk us through your

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<v Speaker 1>thought process as an emotion, so that when we're on

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<v Speaker 1>the streets, or maybe when we're as we're learning on

0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:30.880
<v Speaker 1>our own journeys and as we're blossoming those of us

0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:34.560
<v Speaker 1>who don't identify as trans or don't use separate pronouns,

0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:40.400
<v Speaker 1>but we are committed to respecting and loving the human

0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:46.400
<v Speaker 1>beings with whom we share this planet, regardless of regardless.

0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:50.120
<v Speaker 1>I'd like for you to give us a little bit

0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:53.520
<v Speaker 1>of that thought process and that emotional space so that

0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:56.200
<v Speaker 1>we have insight into how the best approach. Yeah.

0:16:56.280 --> 0:17:04.600
<v Speaker 2>Thanks, Well, I think I'm going to answer the question

0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:09.359
<v Speaker 2>a little bit more broadly in than reagent, just in

0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:11.399
<v Speaker 2>that it's not, I guess, all relevant to how to

0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:14.359
<v Speaker 2>have conversation with other people or for that purpose, but

0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:19.360
<v Speaker 2>I think that well, one, I want to be intentional

0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:22.199
<v Speaker 2>because I can never speak I'm not speaking for all

0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:25.480
<v Speaker 2>non binary trans people by any means, can't do that.

0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:29.560
<v Speaker 2>But I want to be really intentional about like what

0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:33.680
<v Speaker 2>I do say because I also understand that like that

0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:37.520
<v Speaker 2>that still has well, I guess whatever impact it has, right,

0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:42.960
<v Speaker 2>And then it's a conversation. That's it's intimate, it's vulnerable.

0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:48.000
<v Speaker 2>I didn't want to be on a mic because I

0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:50.640
<v Speaker 2>didn't want to have to worry about being rambly or

0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:54.320
<v Speaker 2>about I think there's nothing wrong with crying, but I

0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:56.679
<v Speaker 2>didn't want to have to worry about being rambly or

0:17:56.720 --> 0:18:02.560
<v Speaker 2>crying or whatever it is, because I just wanted to

0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:05.439
<v Speaker 2>be real with you, you know, and be present with you.

0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:08.080
<v Speaker 2>And you are someone who I love and who I

0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:10.480
<v Speaker 2>know is invested in understanding me, and I want to

0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:16.680
<v Speaker 2>understand me, just as I want to understand you. And

0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:20.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm also someone who is like I'm generally I'm down

0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:24.359
<v Speaker 2>to talk about this, especially with all of the people

0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:28.040
<v Speaker 2>I love, Like I'm always I'm always open to whatever

0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:31.200
<v Speaker 2>questions there are because I know I know the hearts

0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:33.560
<v Speaker 2>that they come from. I know it's I love you,

0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:36.120
<v Speaker 2>I want to get to know you better. Why don't

0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:39.080
<v Speaker 2>understand these things? So when I know that I'm down

0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:44.199
<v Speaker 2>to have the conversation, I'm not interested in having this

0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:48.399
<v Speaker 2>conversation with people who aren't interested in understanding, because I

0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:50.199
<v Speaker 2>don't want to have to defend my humanity to you,

0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:54.040
<v Speaker 2>and like I don't if you're not gonna see me

0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:57.080
<v Speaker 2>as valid, or if you just don't think that I

0:18:57.080 --> 0:18:59.960
<v Speaker 2>should be how I am and that's not going to change,

0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:04.159
<v Speaker 2>then I'm I don't have the energy to have that

0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:08.439
<v Speaker 2>conversation most of the time. I do think though, for

0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:10.800
<v Speaker 2>folks who do want to understand, it's all you know

0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:15.199
<v Speaker 2>it would be. I also know that I am a

0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:18.200
<v Speaker 2>lot more open to having conversations about this with people

0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:21.359
<v Speaker 2>who I know way less than a lot of folks.

0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:25.560
<v Speaker 2>I think that, like, because everyone's different, right, some people

0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:28.480
<v Speaker 2>are down to have. Some people are down to have

0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:32.239
<v Speaker 2>those conversations, and you know, I've had people where we

0:19:32.280 --> 0:19:35.000
<v Speaker 2>don't know each other very well but are like, hey,

0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:37.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, do you mind if I ask you? Can

0:19:37.600 --> 0:19:40.240
<v Speaker 2>you explain why you use them? Because I know a

0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:41.719
<v Speaker 2>lot of people use it, and I haven't really been

0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:45.679
<v Speaker 2>down with it, but I just want to understand. And

0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:47.360
<v Speaker 2>a lot of times, if it's the heart that's coming

0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:49.440
<v Speaker 2>with it's like, yeah, sure, I'm totally happy to talk

0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:53.440
<v Speaker 2>about it, you know, or talk about it with anyways. Yeah,

0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:56.159
<v Speaker 2>I'm happy to talk about that. I do think also

0:19:57.200 --> 0:20:00.239
<v Speaker 2>part of that, I honestly think part of that comes

0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:01.840
<v Speaker 2>from the fact that I don't have to do that

0:20:01.880 --> 0:20:04.800
<v Speaker 2>for a lot of other parts of my identity. I'm white.

0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:07.480
<v Speaker 2>I don't have to walk around explaining different things about

0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:09.960
<v Speaker 2>white people to different folks. A lot of my friends

0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:12.600
<v Speaker 2>who are black and non binary, or black and queer,

0:20:12.800 --> 0:20:15.200
<v Speaker 2>black and trans, et cetera don't want to be doing

0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:17.639
<v Speaker 2>that work, which I understand because people come up with

0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:20.080
<v Speaker 2>all sorts of other questions about other parts of their identities,

0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:24.840
<v Speaker 2>and that's fair. I don't think that, like, we'd also

0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:28.080
<v Speaker 2>be fine if I didn't want to have conversations like

0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:31.280
<v Speaker 2>this with other people other than the people who I

0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:34.080
<v Speaker 2>deeply love and care about, and I lo love and

0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:38.280
<v Speaker 2>care about me, So it's kind of like, I'm down

0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:40.560
<v Speaker 2>to talk about this. This is something that I'm more

0:20:40.600 --> 0:20:43.240
<v Speaker 2>than willing to do and happy to do. And also

0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:47.920
<v Speaker 2>because sometimes it's they're just like questions that you can't

0:20:47.920 --> 0:20:50.560
<v Speaker 2>find on the internet, right, Sure, And I do think

0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:52.760
<v Speaker 2>the internet's a really helpful resource and tool, and there

0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:53.680
<v Speaker 2>are plenty of people.

0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:58.000
<v Speaker 1>It can be, ye, can be, can be well, yeah,

0:20:58.080 --> 0:21:00.879
<v Speaker 1>let me say this before we're done. If I'm in

0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:09.520
<v Speaker 1>for people that want to have these conversations, it sounds

0:21:09.600 --> 0:21:13.440
<v Speaker 1>like the right thing to do is to approach it

0:21:13.640 --> 0:21:19.280
<v Speaker 1>with the right intentions, wanting to learn more. Intentionality, I

0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:22.520
<v Speaker 1>think translates quite a bit. It's not a freak show,

0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:26.480
<v Speaker 1>it's not a sideshow anything crazy like that. I love

0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:30.800
<v Speaker 1>how you say humanity. I think that that dignifies every

0:21:30.840 --> 0:21:33.879
<v Speaker 1>conversation that people might want to have if they center

0:21:34.080 --> 0:21:36.919
<v Speaker 1>the humanity. The other part of it is that I

0:21:36.960 --> 0:21:41.679
<v Speaker 1>think that anybody who approaches this conversation as though they

0:21:41.720 --> 0:21:44.439
<v Speaker 1>somehow are going to be the ones and enduring a

0:21:44.440 --> 0:21:50.720
<v Speaker 1>hardship by accommodating a pronoun. They've completely missed the fact

0:21:50.760 --> 0:21:54.920
<v Speaker 1>that other people are living in a hardship as defined

0:21:54.920 --> 0:21:57.679
<v Speaker 1>by them, and I think that's more than enough, and

0:21:57.720 --> 0:21:59.800
<v Speaker 1>that's going to do it for us here today on

0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:02.640
<v Speaker 1>Civic Cipher. Once again, I am your host Rams' JA

0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:05.360
<v Speaker 1>and trust and believe that Cubboard will be back soon

0:22:05.480 --> 0:22:14.240
<v Speaker 1>enough to provide his insightful commentary and hopefully he's bringing

0:22:14.240 --> 0:22:16.360
<v Speaker 1>back some really cool experiences as well to share with us.

0:22:16.840 --> 0:22:18.720
<v Speaker 1>In the meantime, do us a favor. Be sure to

0:22:18.760 --> 0:22:21.040
<v Speaker 1>check us out on all social media. You can follow

0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:24.040
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0:22:24.040 --> 0:22:27.480
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0:22:27.560 --> 0:22:29.879
<v Speaker 1>very important for us. Also, you can download this in

0:22:29.920 --> 0:22:33.480
<v Speaker 1>any previous episode from our website at Civiccipher dot com.

0:22:33.480 --> 0:22:35.360
<v Speaker 1>That is also the place where you can submit any

0:22:35.359 --> 0:22:38.360
<v Speaker 1>topics you want us to cover, make a donation, and

0:22:38.640 --> 0:22:41.760
<v Speaker 1>download of course this in any previous episodes that you

0:22:41.800 --> 0:22:45.080
<v Speaker 1>can keep and review at your leisure. I'd like to

0:22:45.119 --> 0:22:49.400
<v Speaker 1>thank Maya for stopping in today. It was a fantastic conversation.

0:22:49.480 --> 0:22:50.960
<v Speaker 1>I certainly learned a lot and I hope that you

0:22:51.040 --> 0:22:53.480
<v Speaker 1>did too, and I think we'll leave it right there

0:22:53.600 --> 0:22:55.280
<v Speaker 1>until next week. Y'all, peace,