WEBVTT - KT Tunstall 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:04.440 The Craig Ferguson Pants on Fire Tour is on sale now. 0:00:04.640 --> 0:00:07.920 It's a new show, it's new material, but I'm afraid 0:00:07.960 --> 0:00:12.520 it's still only me, Craig Ferguson on my own, standing 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:15.840 on a stage telling comedy words. Come and see me, 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:18.560 buy tickets, bring your loved ones, or don't come and 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:21.439 see me. Don't buy tickets and don't bring your loved ones. 0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:24.040 I'm not your dad. You come or don't come. 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:26.200 But you should at least know what's happening, and it is. 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:30.200 The tour kicks off late September and goes through the 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:34.040 end of the year and beyond. Tickets are available at 0:00:34.120 --> 0:00:37.000 the Craig Ferguson Show dot com slash tour. They are 0:00:37.040 --> 0:00:40.120 available at the Craig Ferguson show dot com slash tour 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:45.000 or at your local outlet in your region. My name 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:49.080 is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast is Joy. 0:00:49.840 --> 0:00:53.680 I talk to interest in people about what brings them happiness. 0:00:56.560 --> 0:01:00.640 Of course, I love every guest I have in the podcast, 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:03.200 but today's a little bit different because I actually do 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:09.520 love love best guest. She's my friend. She's a rock star, 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:12.960 and she really is a rock star, like sometimes when 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:15.280 you say that you're a rock star, but she's also 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:20.080 a rock star. Her name is Katie Tunstall and she's gorgeous. 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:20.720 Enjoy this. 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:30.399 Tamas, who is producing the show at the moment, is 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:34.360 obviously he's a vampire, and he can only come into 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:36.880 your house if you and people forget that about vampires. 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:38.680 You have to ask them across the threshold. 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:41.600 Absolutely invitation necessary. 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:43.840 Right, Okay, so you're in Saucolito. 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:46.960 I'm in Saucilito, California. I can see the Golden Gate 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:51.040 Bridge from my little room and still the city at 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:52.920 a distance, which is wonderful. 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:56.120 Do you know Bonnie Ray? Do you know? 0:01:57.160 --> 0:02:00.920 I don't know her well. But when I first started out, 0:02:01.120 --> 0:02:06.400 we were playing in Nashville and I turned we were 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:08.840 playing in some little dive It was like a little 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:12.520 five hundred kind of dive club. And I turned to 0:02:12.600 --> 0:02:15.880 the right and Bonnie Ray is sitting side of stage 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:18.400 watching the show. 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:20.240 You know she lives right there in Socalo. 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:23.280 Does she live here? I didn't realize right there? No 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:27.440 way funny because I did a voiceover job this morning 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:31.720 in a little a great local studio called Studio D. 0:02:32.400 --> 0:02:35.520 Studio D recording or something. But he was telling me 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:37.240 that Bonnie ray just made a record there. 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:40.680 Yeah, because the last time I was in social Leedo, 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:42.920 I went to a shop. You know, they have shops 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:46.880 in sociallyto They only have shops. They have shops, and 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:50.160 in one of the shops they sell like little things 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:53.160 like art, yes, and you know a little kind of 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:53.959 all the things. 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:55.400 That you didn't realize you needed. 0:02:57.120 --> 0:02:58.919 And I booked at Bonnie Rae. 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:01.560 And I know Bonnie because is a very good friend 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:05.760 of mine who sadly died sense actually was her guitarist for. 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:06.120 A long time. 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:11.519 Oh wow, really yeah, well it's all making sense. But yeah, 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:13.800 she's she's one of the greats for sure. 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:16.640 Oh my god, she's fantastic. Yeah. 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:18.880 I think YouTube would get along very well. 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:23.280 Actually, you get a bit of a Bonnie Raye vibe yourself, listen. 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:26.200 She's she's one of the ones, one of the one 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:28.800 of the sets of shoulders that I stand upon for sure. 0:03:29.160 --> 0:03:31.640 Yeah, she's like rock star. 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:32.119 Yeah. 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:36.840 Yeah, a time when women and that area of rock 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:39.080 it wasn't like was pact with them. 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:45.480 No, And my my own brush with that energy from 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:47.680 a closer relationship with Susie Quatro. 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:55.560 I love what was the Canada can oh Canda. 0:03:55.720 --> 0:04:04.120 Can remember watching the Pops when I was a kid. 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:07.080 The really cool thing about Susie as well was that 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:11.119 she did the leather onesie and the kind of mode hair. 0:04:11.360 --> 0:04:15.080 But she really didn't like wear makeup, you know, she 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:18.200 didn't really glamor. She was kind of one of the guys. 0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:23.039 But Susie was the first ever ever female rock and 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:27.440 roll musician to play an instrument on stage. Really yeah, 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:31.400 And so she'd been plucked out of Detroit taken over 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:36.359 to the UK Mickey most Rack Studios. 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:39.000 And Mickey Most two was that producer. It was kind 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:41.120 of like Simon Cole before Simon Cole. 0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:43.760 Right, It's an amazing story. She was, she was, She 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:46.200 was in a family band and she actually played drums 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:51.520 in her family band with her sisters and they what 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:54.080 were they called the Oh God, I'd have to I'd 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:55.760 have to google it. I can't remember. It would have 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:57.280 to be four of them, whether four of them in 0:04:58.080 --> 0:05:03.600 four sisters or three sisters. But this record, I think 0:05:03.640 --> 0:05:06.560 Mickey Most gone to America's seen her and they only 0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:13.520 wanted Susie and her dad didn't tell her, and so 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:15.760 for a year. She was sort of carrying on playing 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:18.920 in this family group, and then finally she found out 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:22.279 that they actually wanted her. She went over and ended 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:26.880 up selling fifty five million records in Europe. 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:28.560 Were you doing gigs with it recently? 0:05:28.640 --> 0:05:31.080 So I met her? She was a huge Elvis fan, 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:34.680 and I met her about twenty years ago doing like 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:38.040 an Elvis, huge Elvis tribute show in Hyde Park. 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:41.560 And she's such a. 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:46.000 Character and so I had kind of based my second 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:49.960 album cover on her. I've got this It's called Drastic Fantastic. 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:53.680 I've got this big mirrored bass that I'm playing and 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:57.159 it was like, you know, sort of Susie Cottrow homage. Anyway, 0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:01.680 she saw me after she played and she goes Katie 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:04.279 Dunstall and I was like, oh my god, well like 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:09.560 Susie Cortro And she goes, I'm handing you the baton 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:13.000 and I was like, what fucking baton? 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:14.239 What are you talking about? 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:18.880 And she basically handed me the invisible baton of female rock, 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:21.480 where she said you're the one that I see doing 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:24.039 what I did, and you're the one who's going to 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:26.120 carry it on, and we need to do something together. 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:29.040 And ten years later we wrote a geet's record together. 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:31.919 That's crazy, you know. 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:39.520 I talked on the podcast to a young American musician 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:43.800 who is a woman who are her family are Scottish. 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:44.479 What's her name? 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:46.279 Bishop Briggs? 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:50.800 The name, yes, I mean, imagine me called Bishop Briggs. 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:53.839 She's not really called Bishop Briggs, which. 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:56.760 Using it as an artist name is fantastic. 0:06:57.080 --> 0:06:59.880 It's very funny because Bishop Breaks, to those who don't know, 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:02.320 is a suburb of Glasgow. 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:07.080 Yeah, and I should call myself Trenent from Edinburgh. 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:09.400 I have to be Cumbernauld. 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:17.080 Oh, mister Nold, call come I think it was called myself. 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:27.680 Come Bernd Bernold, Come Bernold, because is that your born name? 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:34.120 No, it's my name, Come Bernold. She was saying how 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:36.360 much of an influence? Because I said, you know Katie 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:39.120 and she said, oh my god. She and she talks 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:40.200 about you the way you talk. 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:44.120 About Oh, come on, that's amazing, isn't that great? It's 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:46.360 hard to it's hard to get your head round that, 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:50.640 you know. Yeah, it's like I've had a few people 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:52.600 say it now, you know, because it's twenty years since 0:07:52.640 --> 0:07:54.880 the first record. It's the it's the Annibal. It was 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:57.200 just it was the twentieth anniversary of me going on 0:07:57.280 --> 0:07:58.920 Jules Holland last week. 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:01.280 And is that was that? Suddenly? I see? Was that 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:01.880 the first one? 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:05.400 No, it was black Horse. Black Horse was the first one. Yes, 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:09.400 because I always have them around, because I just so 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:12.920 so black Horse wasn't on my album. I wrote it 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:15.440 after the album was recorded. I was still a nobody. 0:08:15.480 --> 0:08:18.920 We hadn't released the record yet, but I was so 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:24.160 fucking bored of these confessional, emotional, open mic nights. I 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:27.480 hated them. It was just like Phoebe from Friends playing 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:30.880 Smellycat and crying. You know, it was awful, and I 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:33.679 really had I was really adamant to try and get 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:38.080 some rhythm into my set and and whilst trying to 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:41.199 pursue my own career, I was. I was the the 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:45.319 kind of guest vocalist in a Jewish drum and bass 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:54.400 band called Oiva Boy. It's the same record label. I'm 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:56.680 going to get lost because there's so much fun. There's 0:08:56.720 --> 0:08:59.600 so many funny stories about it. But the record label 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:02.840 who won me to sign to them was an underground 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:07.440 Asian dance label that had Knit and Sony Who's Amazing. 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:11.200 They had also signed seven Seconds by So Solid Crewe 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:14.480 as a one single deal and they said, look to 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:17.960 get to know us. We have this instrumental band that 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:20.840 needs a vocalist and they need to write some singles. 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:24.120 And they're a ten piece Jewish klesma, drum and bassed 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:29.160 band called Oiva Voi, and so I joined that band, 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:31.560 wrote some singles, went on tour for the first time, 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:36.480 which was brilliant, and the sound guy I was telling 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:38.920 him how awful these open mics nights, and the sound 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:41.920 guy Moschk, was like, I've got this loop pedal in 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:44.440 my bag. We should set it up at rehearsal and 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:46.520 see what we can do with it. And so at 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:48.600 the end of rehearsal one day we set it up. 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:51.520 I mean, it sounded crap to start with, but he 0:09:51.640 --> 0:09:54.160 kind of tweaked it and helped me. I'd never seen 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:56.120 anyone like bash the shit out of the guitar. I'd 0:09:56.120 --> 0:10:00.280 seen them noodle and do like guitar vocals. I was like, early, 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:02.880 if you hit the guitar, you get a beat, and 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:06.480 it sounded like a badminton racket hitting a plastic bin. 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:09.680 It just sounded terrible, and Mosh was like, don't worry, 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:12.960 we can kind of you know, play with it, and 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:15.400 he got it sounding like a kick drum. And then 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:19.120 the scouts for Jules Holland had come to see me 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:23.280 rehearsing and just working out how to use this thing. 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:25.560 And I was writing black Horse and I was like 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:28.400 trying to work out if there was some vocals that 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:31.040 you could have going all the way through his song, 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:33.080 and I was like, I need some lyrics. I mean, 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:35.360 it's just I had no idea what it meant. I 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:37.360 was like, these are just lyrics that came into my 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:41.280 head to just try and get a song going. And 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:44.280 they saw me working that out and I was like, excellent, 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:47.199 got a song in the bag for album too. And 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:50.480 then I'm on tour with my mate from Orkney actually 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:53.360 half cousin. I just had a last blast, like go 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:55.560 on tour with a friend and just be in a band. Rather. 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:59.600 I was a bit apprehensive about being the bride final, 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:02.200 you know, being the front person and being known. Yeah, 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:04.000 so it was a bit of a last blast. Went 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:06.760 on this tour and then got the phone call about 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:10.760 Jules Holland that Nas the rapper had pulled out with 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:15.480 twenty four hours notice, and the scouts asked if I 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:21.680 wanted to replace and I'm like an known unemployed girl 0:11:21.679 --> 0:11:22.439 from Scotland. 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:27.320 Do people in America know about Jules Holland and how 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:29.360 important that is for a British musician. 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:31.800 I mean people certainly know more about it now. That 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:35.160 was the advent of YouTube and everything. But Holland was 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:36.160 an original member. 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:39.760 Of Squeeze Sure and he presented the tube. 0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:41.000 Well. 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:43.840 It was a fantastic music was. 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:46.920 A music show on British television which was ah, it 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:47.920 was off. 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:49.960 It was crazy, it was mental. 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:52.520 It was like Paula Gates on a bed with Michael 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:53.959 Hutchins and you. 0:11:53.920 --> 0:12:01.040 Know the I know it was and Jules Holland and Murial. 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:04.319 Gray, Mumal Gray. Yeah, it was brilliant. But Jeweles then 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:06.320 went on to start later with Jules Holland, which has 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:08.960 been now running I think for thirty years. And the 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:13.280 premise is Musicians Amazing. And the premise is that you 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:17.240 you have five five or so acts in the round 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:21.320 with an audience that kind of around everybody on the 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:25.280 floor and it's recorded as live and everybody plays a 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:27.920 song each and as the rapper was meant to be 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:30.440 there and he pulled out and I got the gig and. 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:32.960 I turned on. Was that a real change of life thing? 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:33.280 Was that? 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:38.000 Like? Yeah, that was like shot out of a human can. 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:40.880 So I get down to the studio. I've never been 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:44.600 on TV. My album isn't I have No Experience of 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:51.400 this world? And it's Anita Baker, Jackson Brown and The 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:57.240 Cure and Embrace were on it as well. But I'm 0:12:57.280 --> 0:13:00.439 just down there going, oh my god, this is mental 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:03.240 and I can and I and I'm thrown out the 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:06.480 middle of the floor three two, one go, and I'm like, 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:09.160 just don't don't fuck it up, you know, because the 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:10.160 looper thing, you've. 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:13.839 Got to get it right. Yeah, once it starts, that's it, right, 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:14.240 that's it. 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:15.720 So I'm like, all right, I got the loop going, 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:19.760 get going. I can see Anita Baker like clapping. I'm like, 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:23.560 Robert Smith is smiling, like wow, you know, it's rare. 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:29.960 It's going good. And and then I get you know, 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:32.640 and and I know it's gone well. But it was 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:35.320 a risky thing to do. But it was my label boss. 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:38.600 He said to me, do that fucking woo who thing. 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:42.240 And I was like yeah, And I was like and 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:44.800 I said, but Shabs was my label boss. I was like, 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:47.000 it's not on the record. We didn't have a recording 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:50.719 of it. It wasn't on the album. And on the 0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:52.480 Side of the World was the first single. I was like, 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:54.960 shouldn't I play the first single. He's like, no, trust 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:56.360 me play that whole thing. 0:13:57.480 --> 0:13:58.800 And I was like all right. 0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:03.360 And then then I morning I've won the online poll 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:07.920 of the favorite artist on the show Wow Against the Cure, 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:11.280 Against the Cure, and he a Bakker and Jackson Brown 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:13.319 and then on this tour I'm on at the moment, 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:17.199 we just played the Troubadour in Hollywood as our first. 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:19.720 Because Megan and I were trying to know and we 0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:23.440 couldn't make it work. And I'm sorry, no, it was fantastic. 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:25.520 We played the show and there's a little I don't 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:27.120 know if you've done a gig there, but there's a 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:31.840 little corridortairs dressing room and after the gig is great gig, 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:35.720 I'm getting changed and an older gentleman comes straight into 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:38.200 the dressing room, which is weird, like usually you've got 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:40.920 ten minutes or so after the show, and then I 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:43.840 realized it's clearly a friend of Sean's, and so you know, 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:46.760 all good, and he's got a beard and anyway comes 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:49.560 up to me in the dressing room and he goes, Katie, 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:54.840 it's Jackson Brown. Oh and I never met him that 0:14:55.040 --> 0:14:59.000 night and I've never met him since. And I told 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:03.000 the story on stage age and Jackson Brown's like, I 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:05.320 remember that night. It was crazy. 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:07.960 That's great, it was amazing. 0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:10.800 I love. I love when you hear about that kind 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:14.840 of collegiate environment that musicians can have, and they they 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:18.840 seem to like proper musicians, particularly I think rock musicians 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:23.720 that right. They don't correct me if I'm wrong, but 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:25.680 it seems to me that there's a kind of delight 0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:28.240 in each other's work that I don't see so much 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:31.800 maybe with with other areas of entertainment. 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:35.560 It's really funny because it's like it's like a kind 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:40.600 of high school musical with musicians where you often, like 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:43.120 at festivals or something where lots of you were there 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:46.560 in one place because we don't actually see each other 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:49.960 very often because you're touring all the time, the same 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:53.160 as a as a comedian, that you you don't really 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:54.760 fraternize that often. 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:57.320 You know, yeah, I don't know at all. 0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:00.720 And then when we see each other there's this kind of. 0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:04.680 Like you know, are we are? 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:07.760 We? Are we cool? And then as soon as you 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:12.440 know the vibe is good, you can absolutely gush and 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:14.920 tell each other how much you love each other. 0:16:15.800 --> 0:16:17.000 Does it cross boundaries? 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:19.320 I mean that have you met people who are wildly 0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:24.600 outside your musical purview that you think, I really want 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:27.600 to like work out you, I really want to jam 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:29.080 with you, I really want to play with you. 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:30.880 Like Jimmy, I don't know. 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:35.760 Your little Yeah, I mean, well, what like Jewish drum 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:36.600 and bass bands? 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:39.840 So yeah, yeah, I didn't even know. 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:45.280 Yeah, but I think I think the most impactful one 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:51.280 of those was holl of Notes. So so Daryl Hole 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:54.720 does this thing called Life from Daryl's House where he 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:57.360 gets bands. It's a bit like Jewels. He gets them 0:16:57.400 --> 0:16:59.280 to come and jam. And I think I've seen this 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:02.160 and we just want and my head was blowing. I 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:04.800 was like in Darryl's place, he had a place in 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:07.520 London where we filmed it, and I'm playing a fucking 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:14.320 glockenspiel and out of touch and he's I'm like dueting 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:16.720 with Daryl Hall. And I ended up actually going on 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:20.199 the road with hol Notes a lot after that, and 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:22.960 that was just like it was the coolest. It was 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:30.440 so magic, isn't. 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:33.160 It The weirdest thing though about getting on a show 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:35.679 business that you you rub up against people that you 0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:37.240 idolized when you were young. 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:39.880 I mean, you can't get away with that these days. 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:41.680 You can't rub up against them in the same way. 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:43.359 As well. 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:47.439 People were rubbing up against people in the in the 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:50.000 nineties in a very different way. 0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:51.040 It was a different yea. 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:56.760 Now, if you rub, you rub yourself, keep it to yourself, 0:17:57.320 --> 0:17:59.719 keep it to yourself, rub yourself and call yourself. 0:17:59.760 --> 0:17:59.960 Can't. 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:05.120 But I think the funny thing is it's like you're 0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:08.040 still a fan of these people, you know, And I 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:10.560 find when I'm in those environments, You've just got to 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:13.720 go just fucking be cool. Just be cool, Just be cool, 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:16.360 just be normal. They're just musicians, just like you. They're 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:20.800 just musicians, you know. And not lose your ship, because 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:23.400 the thing is, if you lose your ship, you missed 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:27.760 the opportunity of actually connecting and having a friendship with someone, 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:30.280 you know. I remember when I, you know, when I 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:33.879 all first kicked off and I was friends with Scarlet Page, 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:38.600 Jimmy Page's daughter from and it was at bricks and 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:41.920 she and I was wearing these amazing Vivian Westward boots 0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:44.480 right that I'd got for it, and I won that year. 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:47.359 It was brilliant year. And and she goes, do you 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:48.359 want to meet my dad? 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:51.400 And I was like, yes, I really want to meet 0:18:51.400 --> 0:18:51.800 your dad. 0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:55.399 And I'm trying to be cool. When to meet Page, 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:58.600 He's like, Hello'm Katie, and I'm like, oh my god. 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:02.320 I'm like, hi, Jimmy. I said, how are you? And 0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:06.120 he goes, O great. He goes, I love your boots, 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:08.160 and I said and. 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:12.360 I just went, I love you, and. 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:15.120 He went anyway, nice to meet you. 0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:17.920 Bye. Do you know That's why? 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:21.480 That's why I would never let the bookers approach David 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:23.200 Bowie to appear on the Old Night Show. 0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:23.840 God, what would you? 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:26.320 I don't try to keep it again. 0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:29.040 I know I feel the same way about a Bowie. 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:31.040 I never met Bowie and I would. I think I 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:32.919 would be a bit the same with Dylan. I just 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:36.200 im just like, I don't know what hell you'd say? 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:39.800 You know, I know, I mean to just say you're great. 0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:42.760 I think it's probably be weird. 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:45.199 But it was brilliant when I did Jules Holland. I 0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:48.800 met Robert Smith after the show, and he was actually 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:52.120 the first famous person I ever met. I'd never met 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:53.240 a famous person. 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:56.919 First one I ever met, who Robert Smith. 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:04.159 Shut the fuck up. It seemed crazy like our first 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:09.200 gigs were at the Edinburgh Festival. Yeah, Robert Smith. There 0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:10.360 used to be a show. 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:13.439 There used to be a show on TV in Britain 0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:17.679 called Jukebox Jury, I remember, right, And it was like 0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:19.800 some people would come on and they would talk about 0:20:20.160 --> 0:20:23.840 songs like that, there's four people and you play a 0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:26.359 bunch of news singles and people either go thumbs up 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:28.239 and thumb down and say whether they like them or not. 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:31.680 And for somebody must have canceled. 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:35.040 And I got invited on Jukebox Jury, and Robert Smith 0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:36.840 was on juke Box Jury. 0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:38.480 But this is before I got sober. 0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:44.840 Wow, so I was going ah and and I remember 0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:48.720 it only because the single that we were judging was 0:20:48.840 --> 0:20:51.119 unbelievable by E mf. 0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:53.520 Right, that's how long ago it was. 0:20:56.240 --> 0:21:01.280 Yeah, And Robert Smith didn't like it. I don't think 0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:03.280 it's going to be a hit, and I was like, no, 0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:05.240 it's awesome, it's going to be a hit. 0:21:05.520 --> 0:21:06.879 And I was drunk and all that, and. 0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:10.800 I still kind of feel a little weird about it, 0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:13.280 because I don't think I was. I don't think I 0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:17.320 was very impressive as a character in those years. 0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:21.119 I even I'm that impressive now, But back then I 0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:22.520 was drunk a lot, and I. 0:21:23.200 --> 0:21:26.800 Was I argued with Robert Smith about the value of 0:21:26.960 --> 0:21:28.800 unbelievable by EMF. 0:21:28.480 --> 0:21:31.480 However, I was right, Yes, you were right. 0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:36.280 And I'm sure a guy like Robert Smith appreciates some 0:21:36.359 --> 0:21:37.160 honest conviction. 0:21:38.640 --> 0:21:39.400 You know what, You're right? 0:21:40.240 --> 0:21:42.280 You know, he probally asks people fucking just agreeing with 0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:43.080 him all the time. 0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:46.399 Now I think about it, he probably thinks about me 0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:47.520 a lot all the time. 0:21:47.720 --> 0:21:50.320 In fact, the new Cure album probably has a song 0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:51.000 about you on it. 0:21:52.040 --> 0:21:56.040 He probably remembers it. And you know, that drunk Scottish 0:21:56.080 --> 0:21:59.119 guy on juke Bow's Jury. I really liked him. He 0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:01.520 challenged to me intellectually. 0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:07.040 So when I met him, it was the end of 0:22:07.080 --> 0:22:08.119 it was the end of the show and they have 0:22:08.119 --> 0:22:09.880 a nice little after show and he was still there, 0:22:10.480 --> 0:22:13.400 and I remember thinking I've got to go and say 0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:16.200 loo to him, and so say and I was asking 0:22:16.280 --> 0:22:19.000 if they'd enjoyed making the new album they made, and 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:22.440 I really remember he sounded like a twenty one year 0:22:22.440 --> 0:22:25.399 old who just started a band. He was just so 0:22:25.640 --> 0:22:29.720 excited about new music, and it was just he was 0:22:29.840 --> 0:22:34.480 just a great dude. I loved his energy about talking 0:22:34.520 --> 0:22:36.720 about what they'd made and they you know, they'd already 0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:39.040 beat around for twenty years or whatever. 0:22:39.240 --> 0:22:41.960 Yeah, but I've heard you talk like that, so I've 0:22:42.000 --> 0:22:44.000 had a lot of musicians stuff like that when you 0:22:44.000 --> 0:22:45.000 have new stuff. 0:22:45.400 --> 0:22:48.960 Oh yeah, well that's what you hope, that's what you hope, 0:22:48.960 --> 0:22:51.399 you feel like. But then that kind of dried up. 0:22:51.440 --> 0:22:53.439 My thought. I want to keep talking to him, So 0:22:54.200 --> 0:22:55.919 what do you do? I should I should ask him 0:22:55.920 --> 0:22:59.359 a question, you know, And I didn't really think about it. 0:22:59.400 --> 0:23:07.240 I said, what are you up to this weekend? And 0:23:07.320 --> 0:23:12.240 he goes and he goes, oh, well, we're having lunch 0:23:12.280 --> 0:23:18.680 with my parents. I was like, but asking something else. 0:23:18.880 --> 0:23:21.800 I said, what did I think of your hair and 0:23:21.840 --> 0:23:27.400 your lipstick? Oh my god, this is a nightmare. And 0:23:27.400 --> 0:23:30.520 he just smiles and he just goes, I don't usually 0:23:30.560 --> 0:23:31.640 do that when I go home. 0:23:32.800 --> 0:23:36.920 That's very It's just the best. And oh my god, 0:23:37.040 --> 0:23:40.280 he said. Game ended up. 0:23:40.240 --> 0:23:45.480 Giving me a quote for my very first press release. No, yeah, 0:23:45.760 --> 0:23:47.560 it was. He was so sweet. 0:23:48.400 --> 0:23:49.200 You keep in touch. 0:23:49.560 --> 0:23:52.639 No, like we didn't, kind of we didn't swept numbers. 0:23:52.680 --> 0:23:54.440 Were just going to ask if he if he had 0:23:54.480 --> 0:24:01.320 mentioned me since since jury, about ninety eighty seven or something. 0:24:01.560 --> 0:24:03.840 I'll pass on a signed postcard of you next time 0:24:03.840 --> 0:24:04.199 I see it. 0:24:04.320 --> 0:24:11.040 Yeah, that's right, thinking of you. 0:24:08.000 --> 0:24:13.560 Thinking of you, thinking of me, think think of you 0:24:13.720 --> 0:24:14.280 on your tour. 0:24:14.440 --> 0:24:14.719 I do. 0:24:14.840 --> 0:24:20.800 Sometimes historically it doesn't seem like my crowd or big 0:24:20.920 --> 0:24:25.760 merch heads cheap. I've often just it's often just been 0:24:25.920 --> 0:24:29.280 very poor. And the one thing that I found these 0:24:29.359 --> 0:24:33.719 days that actually has been a complete turnaround is I 0:24:33.720 --> 0:24:38.720 I do little handwritten lyric sheets and put them in 0:24:38.760 --> 0:24:41.840 a little you know, frame, and people love that. So 0:24:41.920 --> 0:24:44.359 I think. I think my crowd are much more about 0:24:44.400 --> 0:24:46.080 music than they are about T shirts. 0:24:46.560 --> 0:24:49.600 Well, here's what I have learned about merch Please do 0:24:49.760 --> 0:24:50.040 tell me. 0:24:51.000 --> 0:24:52.200 It's that if you. 0:24:52.200 --> 0:24:55.840 Sell mercho on the road, it's all about the design 0:24:55.960 --> 0:24:56.480 of the shirt. 0:24:56.920 --> 0:24:58.040 Yeah, I can't get it right. 0:24:58.840 --> 0:25:05.440 No, I here's the thing. Don't get involved. That's because 0:25:05.480 --> 0:25:07.399 I think no, I say no, do this, do that. 0:25:07.560 --> 0:25:10.080 Whenever I have an idea for a T shirt, nobody 0:25:10.080 --> 0:25:10.560 fucking buy. 0:25:10.640 --> 0:25:13.280 Maybe that's why I've always had the ideas and it's 0:25:13.359 --> 0:25:14.000 never worked. 0:25:14.680 --> 0:25:16.480 Don't get involved in your area. 0:25:16.880 --> 0:25:20.760 Yeah, get well sadly, if Vivian Westwood is not available, 0:25:20.880 --> 0:25:25.600 get somebody nearly as clever as Vivian Westwood to do. 0:25:26.040 --> 0:25:30.520 Like Thomas, he farms it out to mask. My tour 0:25:30.560 --> 0:25:33.439 manager farms it out to a merch company. 0:25:33.440 --> 0:25:36.160 That I must, I must get the details. I did 0:25:36.240 --> 0:25:39.160 really want a T shirt. Do you remember everyone used 0:25:39.160 --> 0:25:43.159 to wear the Catherine Hamnet t shirts. You know, choose. 0:25:43.000 --> 0:25:48.399 Life, Frankie say relax exactly or hide yourself and stuff. 0:25:48.400 --> 0:25:50.400 I wanted. I wanted her to do a tour shirt 0:25:50.440 --> 0:25:54.400 that said I did life in Fife. But she wouldn't 0:25:54.400 --> 0:25:57.560 do it. Didn't didn't she didn't do requests. 0:25:58.240 --> 0:26:04.840 That is that where you grew ups? Yeah, yeah, it was. 0:26:05.040 --> 0:26:08.360 It's quite a poshe very quite posh. 0:26:08.400 --> 0:26:13.439 Well, I mean it's definitely like got a spectrum community 0:26:13.560 --> 0:26:18.320 in Saint Andrews. But I was I was academic families 0:26:18.359 --> 0:26:21.399 because my dad was a physicist, so my mom and 0:26:21.480 --> 0:26:25.160 dad were English and they moved up just before well 0:26:25.200 --> 0:26:26.800 I was. I was going to say I was born, 0:26:26.840 --> 0:26:28.280 but I was acquired. 0:26:28.040 --> 0:26:29.320 Because I was adopted. 0:26:30.080 --> 0:26:34.639 But yeah, so I think your story is so so interesting. 0:26:35.160 --> 0:26:39.000 It's quite a journey, for sure, it really is. But 0:26:39.080 --> 0:26:42.359 dad was a physics lecturer and so we and I 0:26:42.400 --> 0:26:46.800 found acaddemia was almost a bit like a religion, where 0:26:46.840 --> 0:26:49.800 really it was sort of very hermetically sealed and it 0:26:49.880 --> 0:26:53.000 was all just academic people hanging out with each other. 0:26:53.160 --> 0:26:56.920 And for sure, you know, the bitchiest motherfuckers I've ever 0:26:56.960 --> 0:27:01.240 come across as well, is academics like their lore competitive. Yeah, 0:27:01.320 --> 0:27:05.119 fucking teenage stand up comedians. They are unbelievable. Yeah, they've 0:27:05.280 --> 0:27:08.200 always got a bad word to say about somebody else 0:27:08.240 --> 0:27:08.960 in academia. 0:27:09.040 --> 0:27:11.680 Well, it's why I really respected my dad as well, 0:27:11.720 --> 0:27:14.600 because he just didn't give a shit about being a professor. 0:27:15.359 --> 0:27:17.720 All he wanted to do was research, and he was 0:27:17.800 --> 0:27:23.280 just like, undergraduates are a waste of university money, and 0:27:23.359 --> 0:27:27.600 he just loved researching. And I remember the one thing 0:27:27.640 --> 0:27:31.840 that I've really taken to her that my dad explained 0:27:31.880 --> 0:27:35.000 to me was one day he was really upset because 0:27:35.000 --> 0:27:38.600 they weren't getting the funding for experiments. So all my 0:27:38.720 --> 0:27:40.919 life growing up, Dad would go work at eight in 0:27:40.920 --> 0:27:44.080 the morning, come home for lunch, go back to work, 0:27:44.119 --> 0:27:46.000 come home for dinner and then take me and my 0:27:46.080 --> 0:27:49.320 brother to his lab every evening because he had to 0:27:49.440 --> 0:27:52.440 kind of keep checking these experiments and like he used 0:27:52.440 --> 0:27:55.680 to fucking play games with liquid nitrogen with us. 0:27:56.119 --> 0:27:56.320 You know. 0:27:56.359 --> 0:27:59.639 It was benas. But he was very dedicated to the 0:28:00.000 --> 0:28:03.159 experimental research that he was doing. He was working in 0:28:03.560 --> 0:28:07.240 nuclear magnetic resonance a lot, which led to MRI machines 0:28:07.320 --> 0:28:10.280 and yeah, and radiology. 0:28:10.359 --> 0:28:12.840 Is that why you light up in the dark. 0:28:12.760 --> 0:28:15.000 Exactly, That's why you can always see where I am. 0:28:16.000 --> 0:28:20.119 I mean, honestly, Dodge she start twelve people in his 0:28:20.200 --> 0:28:23.760 department ended up getting cancer because they were just ignoring 0:28:24.080 --> 0:28:26.639 radioactive science. But the one thing my dad said to 0:28:26.680 --> 0:28:29.280 me was that he was trying to get funding and 0:28:29.560 --> 0:28:31.760 he said, oh my god, they're only giving us five 0:28:31.840 --> 0:28:35.880 years funding. You know, there's almost no point in doing it. 0:28:36.160 --> 0:28:38.240 And I was like that sounds crazy, So what do 0:28:38.320 --> 0:28:41.080 you mean and he said, well, you've got a fund 0:28:41.200 --> 0:28:44.720 for twenty years because you're never going to find out 0:28:45.520 --> 0:28:49.640 the answers to this research in five years. And then 0:28:49.680 --> 0:28:54.280 I thought, so, will you know the answers to your research? 0:28:54.320 --> 0:28:58.040 And he was like, probably not. And I was like, wait, what, 0:28:58.600 --> 0:29:04.640 So you're dedicating your life to researching something that you 0:29:04.720 --> 0:29:09.240 will probably never know the answer to. And he's like, absolutely, that's. 0:29:09.160 --> 0:29:10.000 It's the mark of it. 0:29:10.760 --> 0:29:13.480 I think that's the There's an old quote which I love, 0:29:13.520 --> 0:29:16.400 which is is a mark of civilization and a man 0:29:16.440 --> 0:29:18.280 that he will plant a tree that he knows he 0:29:18.320 --> 0:29:20.520 will never stand in the shade of beautiful. 0:29:20.920 --> 0:29:26.400 That's exactly it, and that is an amazing mentality. Yeah, 0:29:26.400 --> 0:29:30.400 you know that you're part of the course of exploration. 0:29:30.800 --> 0:29:34.760 You're not a musician, not at all. Neither neither of 0:29:34.800 --> 0:29:38.560 my parents were musical at all. They thought I was 0:29:38.720 --> 0:29:41.520 born they were just the thing was that they got 0:29:41.520 --> 0:29:44.320 me lessons. They could recognize that I was talented as 0:29:44.320 --> 0:29:48.440 a young kid, and absolutely to their credit, they you know, 0:29:48.520 --> 0:29:52.120 got me music teachers and came and saw me performing 0:29:52.160 --> 0:29:55.000 at the Buyer Theater at all these plays, you know. 0:29:55.280 --> 0:29:58.360 And then when I actually left college and said, guess what, 0:29:59.080 --> 0:30:01.160 I'm going to be a perform forming artists, they were 0:30:01.200 --> 0:30:04.920 like no, they were like, we thought you were going 0:30:05.000 --> 0:30:08.280 to be a fleet teacher, you know, And so it 0:30:08.320 --> 0:30:11.280 was very frightening for them because they didn't even listen 0:30:11.320 --> 0:30:14.160 to music. They weren't music fans. There was no record 0:30:14.160 --> 0:30:15.280 collection in my house. 0:30:15.960 --> 0:30:22.520 That's very odd. Is a genetic do you think my case? Yes? 0:30:23.000 --> 0:30:27.160 I think yeah. Apparently my my a biological father who 0:30:27.240 --> 0:30:29.640 I never met but found out who he was through 0:30:30.280 --> 0:30:35.200 long lost family. The ITV show was Irish. I knew 0:30:35.240 --> 0:30:38.240 he was Irish, but apparently a very very good singer 0:30:38.280 --> 0:30:40.960 and a bar owner, so he would just sing for everybody. 0:30:41.680 --> 0:30:46.720 So yeah, wow, But it's always been innate. It sort 0:30:46.760 --> 0:30:49.720 of feels like it feels like I mean, I'm sure 0:30:49.720 --> 0:30:52.240 it's the same with you with comedy and comedic timing 0:30:52.720 --> 0:30:56.520 that you just feel like you've been born bilingual. 0:30:57.240 --> 0:30:57.760 Yeah, I can. 0:30:57.840 --> 0:30:59.240 It's something that I can do. I know I can 0:30:59.280 --> 0:31:01.360 do it. I know that if I have to do it. 0:31:01.360 --> 0:31:04.680 It's interesting because I've watched you perform in very different spaces. 0:31:04.720 --> 0:31:08.920 I've seen you play in you know, giant fucking arenas, 0:31:08.960 --> 0:31:10.520 and I saw you do a gig in a record 0:31:10.560 --> 0:31:12.720 shop in London where it was twenty of us in 0:31:12.800 --> 0:31:16.840 the shop or something that was brilliant. But you're exactly this. 0:31:17.160 --> 0:31:17.520 It's not. 0:31:17.760 --> 0:31:20.560 It's a different technique because if you're playing in a 0:31:20.720 --> 0:31:24.280 giant show, you but you you seem to me and 0:31:24.360 --> 0:31:27.200 I know exactly because I know how this feels. There 0:31:27.280 --> 0:31:30.120 is a kind of an ease and a sense of 0:31:30.280 --> 0:31:34.000 purpose that comes with the walkout on the stage. You go, now, 0:31:34.200 --> 0:31:37.080 I'm going to do what I actually know everything from 0:31:37.080 --> 0:31:39.040 now on, I'm going to be all right until this stops. 0:31:39.080 --> 0:31:41.840 I mean, I feel that really comes with time, Like 0:31:41.880 --> 0:31:44.880 I wasn't like that at first, when it'd be funny 0:31:44.880 --> 0:31:48.600 because when I watch myself when I'm younger, I'm like, 0:31:49.040 --> 0:31:53.280 I look like I'm I look I seem cool, Like 0:31:53.760 --> 0:31:56.240 I'm not really looking at the audience that much. I'm 0:31:56.280 --> 0:31:59.280 not saying that much. I'm a total blabbermouth now and 0:31:59.360 --> 0:32:01.840 I'm looking at and I know, I know looking at 0:32:01.920 --> 0:32:07.200 I'm like, I'm shy. I'm definitely shy, and I'm I'm 0:32:07.480 --> 0:32:12.400 I'm compensating by kind of playing it cool. And now 0:32:12.440 --> 0:32:16.360 that I'm older, I'm just an absolute like you know, 0:32:16.600 --> 0:32:18.800 gob shy. I'll just go on and be and I'm 0:32:18.840 --> 0:32:20.880 just I'm talking to the crowd like I talked to you. 0:32:21.200 --> 0:32:23.360 But I wanted to ask you this because I knew 0:32:23.360 --> 0:32:28.120 we were talking today that did you do you remember 0:32:28.680 --> 0:32:31.880 or have you ever had a relationship with this idea 0:32:32.720 --> 0:32:37.160 of the abyss. When you're performing, you know you can 0:32:37.240 --> 0:32:39.240 go off the edge of a cliff, that it can 0:32:40.160 --> 0:32:43.400 fucking go horribly wrong, like you. 0:32:46.680 --> 0:32:50.360 Actually that was your career. I think that's I think 0:32:50.360 --> 0:32:54.160 you're talking exactly my technique. I know I know exactly 0:32:54.280 --> 0:32:58.680 what you're talking about. Let me ask you, though, because 0:32:58.760 --> 0:33:00.000 have you finished describing it? 0:33:00.120 --> 0:33:01.600 Because well, all my. 0:33:01.640 --> 0:33:05.080 Point being was that I believe I subscribed to that 0:33:05.280 --> 0:33:08.200 in the early part of my career, and there was 0:33:08.240 --> 0:33:12.600 a turning point where I realized, I think it's a myth. 0:33:12.920 --> 0:33:17.080 I don't think it exists. And that's when and that's 0:33:17.120 --> 0:33:21.840 when I changed my demeanor was like, I actually don't 0:33:21.880 --> 0:33:26.040 think anything can really go wrong here. I think it's 0:33:26.120 --> 0:33:27.720 up to you if it goes wrong. 0:33:28.320 --> 0:33:29.360 I think that's right. 0:33:29.480 --> 0:33:33.160 That's what It's funny that happened to me in a 0:33:33.360 --> 0:33:34.840 very definite way. 0:33:35.440 --> 0:33:37.320 I have it filmed actually. 0:33:39.800 --> 0:33:42.920 When I was doing Late Night, because until Late Night, 0:33:43.040 --> 0:33:45.920 I was doing very much to formulate, you know, the 0:33:45.960 --> 0:33:48.760 life of an actor and a comedian and a writer. 0:33:48.800 --> 0:33:50.600 And I would do this and do that, but late night, 0:33:50.600 --> 0:33:52.000 because I had to do it every night. It was 0:33:52.040 --> 0:33:53.960 a repetition every night. I'd be a different show. 0:33:54.000 --> 0:33:54.440 Every night. 0:33:55.320 --> 0:34:00.560 I kind of began to get bored, right, and the 0:34:00.680 --> 0:34:07.720 boredom was interesting, dangerous. Yeah, well, what I haven't told 0:34:07.760 --> 0:34:09.279 a lot of people, and this might be the first 0:34:09.280 --> 0:34:12.680 time I've talked about it publicly for about two years 0:34:12.760 --> 0:34:15.239 when I was run about when I did that monologue 0:34:15.239 --> 0:34:18.239 I did that everyone talks about when Britney Spears had 0:34:18.280 --> 0:34:20.560 that meltdown, and I was. I happened to be fifteen 0:34:20.640 --> 0:34:22.719 years sober that day, and I was like, it was 0:34:22.719 --> 0:34:24.560 in two thousand and seven, and by the way. 0:34:24.840 --> 0:34:29.560 Thank you for doing that. It was a really extremely 0:34:29.719 --> 0:34:31.120 powerful thing to do. 0:34:32.080 --> 0:34:36.479 That was the abysto because what happened right at that time. 0:34:36.920 --> 0:34:39.839 I so hated what I was doing. I hated it. 0:34:40.000 --> 0:34:43.080 I hated pretending that I was doing jokes like, hey, 0:34:43.200 --> 0:34:45.320 have you guys been watching the playoffs and stuff? I 0:34:45.360 --> 0:34:47.319 don't watched the fucking I don't even really know what 0:34:47.360 --> 0:34:50.839 a playoff is. And I was pretending to be someone else. 0:34:50.920 --> 0:34:53.080 I was bored and I hated it and I was uncomfortable. 0:34:53.840 --> 0:34:57.080 And then that thing happened with her that weekend, and 0:34:57.120 --> 0:35:00.480 I felt terrible for her, but it was and I 0:35:00.520 --> 0:35:03.040 when I went to work that morning, it was during 0:35:03.120 --> 0:35:07.040 that period, maybe a couple of months before and it 0:35:07.280 --> 0:35:10.560 ended a couple of months after. Everywhere I went, I 0:35:10.600 --> 0:35:14.239 had my passport in my top pocket, so that because 0:35:14.320 --> 0:35:17.080 I thought, tonight's the night they're going to fucking get 0:35:17.160 --> 0:35:18.759 rid of me. Tonight's the night I'm not going to 0:35:18.800 --> 0:35:21.600 be able to stand it and just fucking leave and 0:35:21.719 --> 0:35:25.720 fuck it and go to a Bogatar or something or whatever. 0:35:25.760 --> 0:35:25.960 It was. 0:35:27.480 --> 0:35:30.040 All the time, Wow, And I think you're right. 0:35:30.080 --> 0:35:31.880 There comes to a point where you go you don't 0:35:31.920 --> 0:35:37.520 have to run to escape the fucking the bonds of 0:35:37.560 --> 0:35:38.960 your own terror. 0:35:39.200 --> 0:35:42.359 You don't have to fucking run. You know that you can. 0:35:43.000 --> 0:35:46.160 You can face it right there and find whatever fucking 0:35:46.160 --> 0:35:47.320 happens happens. 0:35:47.600 --> 0:35:50.480 And I think you just you realize you're not a 0:35:50.600 --> 0:35:54.960 visitor to a venue. Yeah, the venue is yours. 0:35:55.600 --> 0:35:56.080 That's right. 0:35:57.960 --> 0:36:02.279 The cry the other night I said, this is entirely collaborative, 0:36:03.040 --> 0:36:05.759 Like this doesn't happen if you're not here, and this 0:36:05.800 --> 0:36:09.240 doesn't happen if I'm not here. And that's the magic 0:36:09.400 --> 0:36:14.200 is that you create this totally unique closed loop circuit 0:36:14.239 --> 0:36:16.400 with those particular people. And I say it all the 0:36:16.400 --> 0:36:18.960 time because I think it's really great for people to 0:36:19.040 --> 0:36:22.440 remember that when you're in a venue watching someone or 0:36:22.440 --> 0:36:23.640 you're performing. 0:36:24.040 --> 0:36:27.960 It's the only time in the history of the fucking 0:36:28.160 --> 0:36:31.920 universe that those specific. 0:36:31.320 --> 0:36:33.320 People will ever be in a room together. 0:36:33.880 --> 0:36:38.800 It's like a finger the exactly. 0:36:38.480 --> 0:36:43.160 And you know, remembering that that experience cannot be emulated 0:36:43.320 --> 0:36:51.040 by technology. It's it's completely protected from any possible future 0:36:51.520 --> 0:36:56.320 because it's magical and it's and it's to be odd 0:36:56.400 --> 0:36:59.239 and to be respected. And I think when I realize, 0:37:00.440 --> 0:37:04.000 and you know, partly why I realized it was fans 0:37:04.000 --> 0:37:07.840 would wagh afterwards to say hi, and so many of 0:37:07.880 --> 0:37:11.359 them would say my favorite bit was when you fucked up. 0:37:12.800 --> 0:37:16.480 I've got emotional saying that. But it's like I'd be 0:37:16.600 --> 0:37:21.160 like what I've been like, practicing for years and trying 0:37:21.160 --> 0:37:25.960 to get these songs perfect. And it's when you realize 0:37:25.960 --> 0:37:30.040 that the perfect show is something special that didn't happen 0:37:30.160 --> 0:37:31.920 last night. You know. 0:37:38.960 --> 0:37:43.759 I think that also it is the recognition of the 0:37:43.800 --> 0:37:48.799 audience is maturity of a performer. And I'll tell you 0:37:48.800 --> 0:37:51.920 what I'm coming to. This is something I've been messing 0:37:51.960 --> 0:37:54.920 around with very recently. I was on stage a couple 0:37:54.960 --> 0:37:58.080 of nights ago in Cleveland, and you know, the Agora 0:37:58.440 --> 0:37:58.920 Theater in. 0:37:58.880 --> 0:38:01.160 Cleveland's a big venue. This nice venue. 0:38:01.200 --> 0:38:01.640 I like it. 0:38:02.160 --> 0:38:03.480 And I was on stage and I was kind of 0:38:03.520 --> 0:38:05.200 mucking around with the audience at the end, towards the 0:38:05.239 --> 0:38:07.400 end of the night, and I said to them, you 0:38:07.480 --> 0:38:12.960 guys are probably familiar with the Danish Christian existentialist philosopher 0:38:13.000 --> 0:38:14.040 sore and Caregreguard. 0:38:14.680 --> 0:38:19.840 And when he said, I and I believe this to 0:38:19.880 --> 0:38:20.279 be true. 0:38:20.440 --> 0:38:24.800 Only the noble of heart are called to difficulty. And 0:38:24.960 --> 0:38:28.319 I said, it's a pain in the ass to go 0:38:28.360 --> 0:38:29.840 out at night. It's a pain in the ass. To 0:38:29.840 --> 0:38:31.640 get a babysitter. It's a pain and ass to get 0:38:31.640 --> 0:38:34.040 in the bus or the trainer, get your car Parkin's 0:38:34.080 --> 0:38:35.759 a pain in the ass. Getting a ticket and a 0:38:35.800 --> 0:38:38.520 pain in the ass. The ticket websites are a pain 0:38:38.560 --> 0:38:40.800 in the ass. That everything's a pain in the ass. 0:38:41.200 --> 0:38:44.439 And I know it's all difficult. I know it's all that. 0:38:45.080 --> 0:38:47.480 And I know that money is fucking tight for a 0:38:47.520 --> 0:38:48.359 lot of people too. 0:38:49.120 --> 0:38:51.440 And the fact that you did all that, you went 0:38:51.480 --> 0:38:54.640 through all of that fucking niggaly bullshit to come here 0:38:54.680 --> 0:38:57.160 and hang out with me. I can't tell you how 0:38:57.239 --> 0:38:59.440 much I appreciate it, and then they waited for the 0:38:59.480 --> 0:39:01.440 joke and I said, I don't have a joke. I 0:39:01.600 --> 0:39:04.160 really need it. Yeah, And that was a kind of 0:39:04.160 --> 0:39:07.520 weird moment as well. And I love that and I 0:39:07.719 --> 0:39:10.840 like what you're described. It's true, it's different. 0:39:11.120 --> 0:39:14.399 And talking of Squeeze, so Julle, I don't know if 0:39:14.440 --> 0:39:17.200 they would be a Katie Tunstall if it wasn't for Squeeze, right, 0:39:17.600 --> 0:39:22.319 because went on, Jules Holland didn't have a recording of 0:39:22.320 --> 0:39:25.759 that song, so the first ten thousand copies of the 0:39:25.800 --> 0:39:28.160 record are the audio from Jules Holland. 0:39:29.640 --> 0:39:30.520 Yeah, no idea. 0:39:30.640 --> 0:39:34.040 And then and then we had to rush record a 0:39:34.160 --> 0:39:36.279 version of the song to actually get it out as 0:39:36.280 --> 0:39:39.000 a single, and we ended up recording it in Chris 0:39:39.080 --> 0:39:43.640 Difford's studio, who's also from Squeeze. And then fast forward, 0:39:43.719 --> 0:39:47.200 you know, eighteen years I'm invited to go on tour 0:39:47.480 --> 0:39:52.120 with Holland Oates and it's two openers, it's me and Squeeze, 0:39:53.200 --> 0:39:55.799 So I'm on first, then Squeeze than Hollow Notes. And 0:39:55.880 --> 0:39:58.880 this was the twenty fifth February twenty twenty, so it 0:39:58.960 --> 0:40:03.400 was just before everything shut down. We were playing Madison 0:40:03.440 --> 0:40:06.480 Square Gardens, and it was it was you know, and 0:40:06.520 --> 0:40:10.120 it's just holy great. It's like that is the pilgrimage, 0:40:10.120 --> 0:40:13.200 and it's you. It's not on your Bingo card of 0:40:13.280 --> 0:40:15.520 life that you might ever get to play that place, 0:40:15.560 --> 0:40:18.360 you know, right, So it was I was so excited. 0:40:18.400 --> 0:40:20.560 It was a bit of a cup downtime set because 0:40:20.560 --> 0:40:24.200 of the special venue, so I had twenty minutes opening time. 0:40:24.280 --> 0:40:26.440 And the other thing that's amazing about that, for me 0:40:26.560 --> 0:40:30.760 particularly is that I'm solo, so like, who the fuck 0:40:30.920 --> 0:40:34.760 ever gets to play You'd always have a band playing 0:40:34.800 --> 0:40:37.800 Madison Square Gardens, but I get to get on stage 0:40:38.120 --> 0:40:40.880 to twenty thousand people who wouldn't come and see me 0:40:41.160 --> 0:40:43.839 on my own and play a set for them. So 0:40:43.920 --> 0:40:47.440 I'm just, you know, so excited. And a friend of mine, 0:40:48.800 --> 0:40:52.000 it's total name drop is a photographer called Pete Caesar 0:40:52.080 --> 0:40:56.040 who was Obama's photographer and Reagan's photographer. But I know 0:40:56.160 --> 0:40:58.399 him through Brandy Carlisle and he does quite a lot 0:40:58.400 --> 0:41:02.359 of music photography these days. Anyway, he's in town, so 0:41:02.440 --> 0:41:05.920 he says he's going to come to the show, and 0:41:05.960 --> 0:41:08.160 I go on stage and I start, I mean, it's 0:41:08.280 --> 0:41:11.239 just phenomenal that space have you have you gigged there. 0:41:11.760 --> 0:41:13.200 I've never played it. 0:41:13.200 --> 0:41:15.920 It's an amazing space, and you know, it's in the round, 0:41:15.960 --> 0:41:19.759 so it feels kind of quiet. Yeah, So I go 0:41:19.800 --> 0:41:24.280 on stage. I'm there. Forty five seconds into my song, 0:41:25.040 --> 0:41:28.720 all my gear craps out. Jeez, the lights turn off. 0:41:28.920 --> 0:41:32.920 It is dead. I have no equipment. My guitar is 0:41:32.960 --> 0:41:36.560 not working, but for some reason, my mic is still working. 0:41:37.840 --> 0:41:41.000 And so I'm fucking on stage with my pants down 0:41:41.600 --> 0:41:44.879 with a microphone in front of twenty thousand people. 0:41:45.400 --> 0:41:52.359 That I'm familiar with, like a minute into. 0:41:52.040 --> 0:41:55.160 The first song, and you know, the guys are kind 0:41:55.160 --> 0:41:59.160 of running around trying to work out what's happened, and 0:41:59.239 --> 0:42:02.839 I'm just going, Jesus Christ do I? And I thought 0:42:02.840 --> 0:42:05.400 maybe I should sing an a cappella song, but I 0:42:05.440 --> 0:42:08.799 don't know what would work without the music, and I 0:42:08.920 --> 0:42:11.160 just I couldn't get my head around it quick enough. 0:42:11.400 --> 0:42:15.640 And I'm thinking in my head all roads have led here, 0:42:16.080 --> 0:42:18.759 you know, to being on one of the biggest, most 0:42:18.800 --> 0:42:24.200 famous stages in the world in this situation, and I 0:42:24.320 --> 0:42:29.600 just felt myself, go, fuck it, no, abyss go and 0:42:29.640 --> 0:42:31.399 I just got on the mic and I just went 0:42:32.600 --> 0:42:38.520 Madison Square Gardens. If the fifteen year old me could 0:42:38.560 --> 0:42:43.800 see the forty seven year old me standing on stage 0:42:43.880 --> 0:42:47.399 at Madison Square Gardens while all of her stuff fucks up, 0:42:47.640 --> 0:42:57.120 she'd be delighted. And everybody just roared great and gave 0:42:57.320 --> 0:43:00.800 me a massive standing oe. They go the gear working 0:43:01.480 --> 0:43:06.040 and I had a phenomenal rest set and it was amazing. 0:43:06.120 --> 0:43:11.040 It was incredibly memorable. And Chris Difford was standing side 0:43:11.040 --> 0:43:16.920 a stage watching and I did a podcast with him 0:43:16.960 --> 0:43:19.719 recently and I told that story and he let me 0:43:19.920 --> 0:43:23.560 tell it and he was like, well, I know that happened, Katie, 0:43:23.600 --> 0:43:27.719 because I was there watching you. And I was like, god, 0:43:27.239 --> 0:43:31.600 I just I just blocked everything out, you know. But 0:43:32.200 --> 0:43:35.480 Pete Susa was behind me on the stage and he 0:43:35.560 --> 0:43:38.080 took this picture of me once I got going again, 0:43:38.920 --> 0:43:42.359 and my hair is just flying in the air and 0:43:42.400 --> 0:43:48.080 my muscles popping out, and it just felt like the 0:43:48.160 --> 0:43:51.840 arena felt like a gladiator in the arena. What happened? 0:43:52.000 --> 0:43:54.279 You know? What do you do when it hits the fan? 0:43:55.080 --> 0:43:57.520 And it was funny. It was another of those moments 0:43:57.520 --> 0:44:01.720 where I was like, there's no way anything is ever 0:44:02.239 --> 0:44:08.399 gonna be as as confronting as that, as everything going 0:44:08.440 --> 0:44:09.240 wrong at MSG. 0:44:10.239 --> 0:44:11.440 I've done it. I've done it. 0:44:11.480 --> 0:44:12.440 I came through the fire. 0:44:13.560 --> 0:44:13.759 Yeah. 0:44:13.840 --> 0:44:17.200 But also what happens is I think, I don't know 0:44:17.239 --> 0:44:20.120 if this will happen to you, but it certainly happened 0:44:20.120 --> 0:44:23.560 to me. When things started to go wrong and I 0:44:23.680 --> 0:44:28.280 enjoyed it, I started to look I started to look 0:44:28.360 --> 0:44:29.279 for it to go wrong. 0:44:29.400 --> 0:44:33.520 I kind of I'm a little I'm a little guilty 0:44:33.680 --> 0:44:34.000 of it. 0:44:34.120 --> 0:44:37.400 Like I I when I started Late Night, I had 0:44:37.520 --> 0:44:41.239 I think eight or ten writers. When the time I 0:44:41.280 --> 0:44:44.560 had finished, I had three because I was like, it 0:44:44.760 --> 0:44:47.439 just puts some stuff on the thing and it will 0:44:47.480 --> 0:44:48.000 work it out. 0:44:48.160 --> 0:44:50.960 But that's why it was so brilliant, and that's why 0:44:51.360 --> 0:44:53.440 I talked to a lot of people over here, and 0:44:53.520 --> 0:44:57.680 you are just their absolute number one favorite. Like they 0:44:57.719 --> 0:45:00.439 go back and the guy who's with my on tour 0:45:01.000 --> 0:45:04.640 just watches your the reruns all the time because it's 0:45:04.719 --> 0:45:10.120 a really different level of it's no possible, but it's 0:45:10.160 --> 0:45:12.320 not possible in a company environment. 0:45:12.400 --> 0:45:14.880 It's I think that it's it's when I watch it 0:45:14.920 --> 0:45:17.239 and I wonder if a band does the same thing 0:45:17.719 --> 0:45:20.840 to a personality like you, because you are a consummate musician. 0:45:20.880 --> 0:45:21.239 I've known. 0:45:21.400 --> 0:45:23.200 I know you, and I know you, and I've worked 0:45:23.200 --> 0:45:24.680 with you and I love you and I know how 0:45:24.719 --> 0:45:28.560 you work. But I also know you and I you know, 0:45:29.040 --> 0:45:32.960 we've we've played musical instruments together with my young son, 0:45:33.000 --> 0:45:37.400 and I know that. Yeah, but I think this is 0:45:37.560 --> 0:45:39.360 and I've said this you. I think you think like 0:45:39.360 --> 0:45:41.279 a stand up I think you like. 0:45:41.760 --> 0:45:45.120 Yeah, you you. 0:45:44.120 --> 0:45:46.560 You have that kind of of Course you can play 0:45:46.560 --> 0:45:48.560 in a band. Of course, you can play with other music. 0:45:48.719 --> 0:45:51.480 You enjoy it, you're good at it. I can run 0:45:51.520 --> 0:45:54.239 around with actors and you know my lages. I can 0:45:54.320 --> 0:45:54.839 do all that. 0:45:55.200 --> 0:45:58.959 But really, when you're on your own, that's when it's Yeah. 0:45:59.040 --> 0:46:02.279 And I have to say, like, there's been times where 0:46:02.280 --> 0:46:04.239 I've thought, God, it would be nice to be in 0:46:04.280 --> 0:46:07.280 a band, wouldn't it to sort of not be really 0:46:07.360 --> 0:46:10.279 just just not be the absolute captain of the ship 0:46:10.440 --> 0:46:12.800 all the time and for everything to be your decision 0:46:12.840 --> 0:46:16.520 and all the consequences of that beyond you. But I 0:46:16.640 --> 0:46:20.160 have to be completely honest, I'm fucking very relieved on 0:46:20.280 --> 0:46:21.040 a solo act. 0:46:21.920 --> 0:46:26.120 Yeah, I just I think that's easier on everybody, including 0:46:26.160 --> 0:46:28.360 the musicians that you working. 0:46:28.840 --> 0:46:32.320 But I do because of unreasonable it's just because I do. 0:46:32.320 --> 0:46:35.520 Like to have control of that, of the stage and 0:46:35.600 --> 0:46:41.720 of how it goes. And and when I'm on stage, 0:46:41.760 --> 0:46:46.359 I'm very aware of I've got the wand I've got 0:46:46.400 --> 0:46:49.400 the conch, you know, and you decide how it goes. 0:46:49.400 --> 0:46:51.920 And I love being able to go, yeah, we're not 0:46:51.960 --> 0:46:53.279 going to do that, We're going to do this. 0:46:54.320 --> 0:46:57.480 Also, if you even look at the origin of your 0:46:57.920 --> 0:47:01.759 your career from the story you're telling about Jewels doing 0:47:01.840 --> 0:47:06.520 Jules this show at that time, that's fucking ballsy, you know. 0:47:06.880 --> 0:47:09.319 I remember I remember doing it. It was up in 0:47:09.360 --> 0:47:11.920 the Highlands somewhere. Did a radio show not long after 0:47:12.000 --> 0:47:14.560 that was aired, and there was an engineer and he 0:47:14.680 --> 0:47:16.680 was such a sweet guy and I can't remember his name, 0:47:17.200 --> 0:47:20.160 but he goes get it. I was watching the Telly, 0:47:20.320 --> 0:47:24.160 I was watching what you were doing, and I went, oh, no, no, 0:47:24.560 --> 0:47:30.000 what doing And he understood. There was so few people 0:47:30.080 --> 0:47:33.000 who understood. They could have gone so. 0:47:33.160 --> 0:47:37.000 Wrong, the danger of what was going on. Yeah, but 0:47:37.400 --> 0:47:43.120 that whatever, that is that that when you talk about 0:47:43.160 --> 0:47:45.560 the best and you talk about the danger. 0:47:46.280 --> 0:47:49.200 Like one of the very first stand ups I ever 0:47:49.239 --> 0:47:49.600 did was. 0:47:49.600 --> 0:47:54.680 At a punk festival in the IPA or the Ica 0:47:54.960 --> 0:48:00.120 or something in London, and I was absolutely harangued and 0:48:00.320 --> 0:48:02.960 booed off stage by the audience and all that. And 0:48:03.080 --> 0:48:05.960 when I come off, because I remember Peter Capaldi was 0:48:06.000 --> 0:48:07.200 there at the time, he was in the band I 0:48:07.239 --> 0:48:08.200 was in at the time, he was like. 0:48:08.160 --> 0:48:11.239 Oh, oh dear. I was like, I was like, no, 0:48:12.760 --> 0:48:13.720 I want to do it again. 0:48:16.320 --> 0:48:20.920 And it's like it's like, you know, I also can't 0:48:21.040 --> 0:48:23.520 really perform that well, not under pressure. 0:48:24.440 --> 0:48:25.200 Yeah, I know what you mean. 0:48:25.480 --> 0:48:28.840 If I if I'm filming something and I know that 0:48:28.880 --> 0:48:30.879 I can do it again, it won't be as good. 0:48:32.800 --> 0:48:33.040 Yeah. 0:48:33.920 --> 0:48:37.560 Yeah. Also here's another thing though, let me ask you this, because. 0:48:38.840 --> 0:48:42.680 Sometimes people will come backstage after you've done a show 0:48:42.800 --> 0:48:44.719 and they'll tell you how great the show wasn't how 0:48:44.760 --> 0:48:46.759 much they enjoyed it, and it might not be a 0:48:46.800 --> 0:48:51.160 show that you enjoyed, yeah, as much. And I've I've 0:48:52.440 --> 0:48:54.879 decide I've learned over the time to shut up about 0:48:54.880 --> 0:48:56.120 that now and just thanks very much. 0:48:56.160 --> 0:48:59.680 I know there's a real dissonance that can happen between 0:48:59.719 --> 0:49:01.880 you thinking you've had a great show and they were. 0:49:01.719 --> 0:49:03.760 Like it's nice yah. 0:49:04.160 --> 0:49:06.880 Or or are you having a terrible time, and then 0:49:07.080 --> 0:49:09.719 just going Oh that was great, you know. 0:49:09.719 --> 0:49:10.640 I had one recently. 0:49:11.239 --> 0:49:14.400 Yeah, I've heard performers talk about that when they're playing 0:49:14.400 --> 0:49:14.960 in Japan. 0:49:15.560 --> 0:49:20.439 Oh, it's just it's it's crazy because they someone said 0:49:20.440 --> 0:49:25.200 to me, just don't mumble, don't don't ramble, because they'll 0:49:25.200 --> 0:49:29.319 clap for ten seconds and then it's silence, so they 0:49:29.320 --> 0:49:34.560 go and then you're just like, oh my god, it's 0:49:34.560 --> 0:49:38.520 completely silent, and you just start mumbling nonsense and it happened. 0:49:38.960 --> 0:49:39.840 But did you mumble? 0:49:40.080 --> 0:49:40.319 Yeah? 0:49:40.440 --> 0:49:43.280 I was just like this. And a lot of Japanese 0:49:43.280 --> 0:49:46.000 people don't speak English, so they also a lot of 0:49:46.040 --> 0:49:47.800 the audience have no idea what you're saying. 0:49:48.640 --> 0:49:50.000 Did they understand where you're singing? 0:49:51.360 --> 0:49:53.280 I don't think good. 0:49:54.760 --> 0:49:55.319 Music doesn't. 0:49:55.360 --> 0:49:58.680 And it's another beautiful thing about music. When you travel 0:49:58.719 --> 0:50:02.000 the world and play people, you take it for granted 0:50:02.000 --> 0:50:05.759 that you speak English, and there's so many of these 0:50:05.760 --> 0:50:08.839 countries that you go to, but they have absolutely they're 0:50:08.880 --> 0:50:12.239 basically listening to the Cocktail Twins. They have no idea why, 0:50:12.320 --> 0:50:16.240 you know, and they really a lot of audience members 0:50:16.280 --> 0:50:21.080 won't know what the words mean. And you see that 0:50:21.200 --> 0:50:27.040 the words are emotionally communicating just as powerfully as if 0:50:27.120 --> 0:50:29.640 they did know what you were saying. It's mad. 0:50:31.239 --> 0:50:33.239 I went to an AA meeting with a friend of 0:50:33.280 --> 0:50:36.000 mine from America once in Scotland and she. 0:50:36.080 --> 0:50:38.360 Sat next to me. She sat next to me in 0:50:38.400 --> 0:50:40.560 the meeting, and at the end of the meeting she. 0:50:40.520 --> 0:50:43.279 Went, that was one of the greatest AA meetings I've 0:50:43.320 --> 0:50:44.600 ever been to in my life. 0:50:44.880 --> 0:50:49.680 Didn't understand a fucking word, not a fucking word, but 0:50:50.360 --> 0:50:51.520 somehow it worked. 0:50:52.680 --> 0:50:59.919 Yeah. Yeah, I made that amazing kind of osmosis through 0:51:01.280 --> 0:51:05.279 performance of not necessarily having to. I mean, it's the 0:51:05.320 --> 0:51:09.000 same with art, isn't it with painting or with dance, 0:51:09.840 --> 0:51:15.440 where there's something just that isn't to do with language 0:51:15.480 --> 0:51:15.879 at all. 0:51:17.040 --> 0:51:20.319 Right, it's and it's the thing that I you know, 0:51:20.440 --> 0:51:24.520 I am so jealous of that doesn't exist in stand up. 0:51:24.520 --> 0:51:26.920 If they don't speak English, I can't do it. 0:51:27.000 --> 0:51:30.320 I don't agree with you, though, because I'm I'm fully 0:51:30.520 --> 0:51:34.200 of the feeling that I think stand up is king. 0:51:34.360 --> 0:51:39.000 I think it is the hardest, most impressive art. I 0:51:39.040 --> 0:51:44.560 think it's I just think it's beyond I don't see it. 0:51:44.520 --> 0:51:49.080 That way at all. I think musicianship funnily enough because. 0:51:48.840 --> 0:51:53.719 Let's slap each other's asses, and that's more of a 0:51:53.800 --> 0:51:56.759 nineties thing. But the thing is, but Craig, I could 0:51:56.840 --> 0:52:01.120 be having any kind of day. I could be feeling 0:52:01.200 --> 0:52:04.400 like shit, or I could be feeling great. It doesn't matter. 0:52:04.520 --> 0:52:07.600 I can get on stage and just play the cheats 0:52:09.200 --> 0:52:12.960 and with stand up. There's just a level of vulnerability 0:52:13.760 --> 0:52:19.280 where it's gonna be pre I would, unless you're incredibly 0:52:19.280 --> 0:52:23.520 good at acting, they're gonna see where you're at. 0:52:24.440 --> 0:52:28.399 No, it's not like that at all. Really, No, it's 0:52:28.400 --> 0:52:31.799 not like that at all. It doesn't matter what kind 0:52:31.840 --> 0:52:34.960 of day you've had. It doesn't matter what kind of 0:52:35.120 --> 0:52:36.920 madness is going on in your life. 0:52:37.040 --> 0:52:39.759 You can still just enter. Well. 0:52:39.920 --> 0:52:42.440 When you go on to the stage, you start breathing 0:52:42.600 --> 0:52:47.879 different air and it's it's different, it's a. 0:52:47.840 --> 0:52:49.040 Different set of rules. 0:52:49.239 --> 0:52:52.719 When I towards the end of my drinking, I was 0:52:53.320 --> 0:52:56.279 like the last six months I was My life was 0:52:56.320 --> 0:52:58.160 in tatters, you know, my. 0:52:58.200 --> 0:53:00.279 Relationship was breaking up. I was fuck. 0:53:00.719 --> 0:53:05.440 I was homeless for all intensive purposes. But I was 0:53:05.480 --> 0:53:07.200 doing a show in the West End. I was doing 0:53:07.200 --> 0:53:09.840 the Rocky Horror Show in the West End of London, 0:53:09.840 --> 0:53:12.120 which is a lot of moving parts and a lot 0:53:12.160 --> 0:53:14.200 of things and a lot of laughs and a big 0:53:14.280 --> 0:53:19.359 audience and and and high pressure. And every night when 0:53:19.360 --> 0:53:23.240 I heard the dum dim and it was about to start, 0:53:23.360 --> 0:53:26.000 I thought, Okay, Everin's going to be all right for 0:53:26.040 --> 0:53:26.879 the next ninety nine. 0:53:27.080 --> 0:53:29.400 It's amazing that you held that ship together. 0:53:30.040 --> 0:53:33.080 I don't only for then. I think it's and I 0:53:33.120 --> 0:53:35.360 think that's what I think, that's what it is. I 0:53:35.360 --> 0:53:38.120 mean about the stand up though it doesn't. I mean, 0:53:38.160 --> 0:53:41.080 look at some of the people that do it, and 0:53:41.080 --> 0:53:45.040 then how terrible their lives are when they're not on 0:53:45.120 --> 0:53:45.719 a stage. 0:53:46.120 --> 0:53:47.319 I mean musicians too. 0:53:47.680 --> 0:53:51.920 The one that always gets me is producers, people that 0:53:52.200 --> 0:53:56.840 do all this difficult kind of work and then can't, 0:53:56.960 --> 0:53:59.560 you know, balance their own checking account. 0:53:59.680 --> 0:54:01.040 It's so bizarre to me. 0:54:01.239 --> 0:54:03.120 I know. I was going to say about comedy that 0:54:05.080 --> 0:54:09.560 the place that I always just find genius is the 0:54:09.640 --> 0:54:14.800 silence in comedy and the and and just the courage 0:54:14.960 --> 0:54:20.279 of silence. And the comedians, I really like, they're just 0:54:20.440 --> 0:54:24.920 so comfortable in silence and they just don't need to 0:54:25.000 --> 0:54:28.080 speak into the silence. And maybe that's the same with 0:54:28.200 --> 0:54:29.800 music as well. Maybe it's the space. 0:54:30.200 --> 0:54:32.600 I think it's a similar thing. Robin Williams used to 0:54:32.680 --> 0:54:35.960 always say. Robin always said it was funny you being 0:54:36.000 --> 0:54:39.560 so little. But the Robin used to always say that 0:54:39.640 --> 0:54:42.720 it's jazz. He said, he said, stand up is jazz, 0:54:42.800 --> 0:54:45.880 and the way he and he always thought it was music. 0:54:46.000 --> 0:54:48.600 I certainly nearly every stand up I know, and certainly 0:54:48.640 --> 0:54:51.520 every stand up I like, is musical in some way. 0:54:51.640 --> 0:54:52.399 Yeah, they're not. 0:54:52.640 --> 0:54:56.600 They have a musical connection at some point. They don't 0:54:57.000 --> 0:55:00.320 just do that. Maybe it's different now because young people 0:55:00.400 --> 0:55:03.239 become stand up comedians in a way that they used 0:55:03.239 --> 0:55:04.279 to become musicians. 0:55:04.520 --> 0:55:07.239 Yeah, it's it's kind of like to. 0:55:07.160 --> 0:55:10.120 Me, it's probably a wiser choice. 0:55:11.560 --> 0:55:13.640 I mean, I don't know the thing about that. 0:55:13.880 --> 0:55:16.400 For me, becoming a stand up was like becoming a 0:55:16.440 --> 0:55:19.799 real estate agent. It was just like, well, fuck it, 0:55:19.880 --> 0:55:22.040 you know what I mean, it'll do. 0:55:22.280 --> 0:55:23.000 Yeah, well. 0:55:24.480 --> 0:55:27.279 Yeah, well not practical more just kind of like a 0:55:27.840 --> 0:55:29.120 second choice position. 0:55:29.160 --> 0:55:31.920 I would have rather been you. I wanted to be you, 0:55:32.280 --> 0:55:34.080 but but I. 0:55:34.120 --> 0:55:38.160 Can't or didn't or wouldn't or didn't have the talent 0:55:38.280 --> 0:55:40.400 for it, or didn't have the application for it, or 0:55:40.440 --> 0:55:42.960 it just wasn't there, and I and I ended up 0:55:43.040 --> 0:55:44.240 doing something else. 0:55:44.280 --> 0:55:46.240 But I wanted to be a musician. 0:55:46.320 --> 0:55:49.239 And I think a lot of and I've seen it 0:55:49.280 --> 0:55:52.440 with a lot of actors and stand ups who all 0:55:52.480 --> 0:55:55.120 really kind of want to be rock stars. Unless, be honest, 0:55:55.520 --> 0:55:58.440 everybody wants to be a rock star, because you don't. 0:55:58.800 --> 0:56:01.200 You don't say to someone as in a compliment, if 0:56:01.200 --> 0:56:03.000 they do something really well, you don't say, you know, 0:56:03.080 --> 0:56:04.960 you say oh, you're a rock star, thanks man. You 0:56:04.960 --> 0:56:13.000 don't say, oh, you're a comedian, thanks man. You're an 0:56:13.080 --> 0:56:15.120 absolute actor, thank you. 0:56:15.120 --> 0:56:20.680 You know voiceover voice, you're a guy that can write 0:56:20.800 --> 0:56:22.919 really good jingles, Thank you very much. 0:56:23.000 --> 0:56:24.120 It's not they don't do that. 0:56:26.000 --> 0:56:28.640 Star is I was talking about this to someone the 0:56:28.719 --> 0:56:33.960 other day about this the the very common actor and 0:56:34.960 --> 0:56:38.840 desire to do music, and I really relate to it 0:56:38.880 --> 0:56:43.760 because I do think it's because they're spending a career 0:56:44.480 --> 0:56:46.080 being given the words and told how. 0:56:45.960 --> 0:56:51.799 To say them. Yes, and so music is absolutely autonomous. 0:56:52.239 --> 0:56:54.840 You get to do the performance. And the other thing is, 0:56:54.840 --> 0:56:57.920 if you're in a movie or a TV show, you 0:56:57.960 --> 0:57:01.120 don't get an audience fucking clapping at the end of 0:57:01.160 --> 0:57:04.720 every scene. No, no, you know, we get we get 0:57:04.800 --> 0:57:07.480 a huge applause every four or five minutes. 0:57:08.600 --> 0:57:12.479 You know what, fucking bothers with musicians is as well 0:57:12.520 --> 0:57:15.720 as that you can go out and people will wait 0:57:16.480 --> 0:57:19.600 for the song you wrote twenty years ago. If I 0:57:19.760 --> 0:57:22.080 do a joke that I wrote twenty years ago, I 0:57:22.360 --> 0:57:23.640 fucking riot in my head. 0:57:23.920 --> 0:57:27.520 I can't even do a joke I wrote a year ago. Yeah, 0:57:28.200 --> 0:57:29.120 I've got There. 0:57:29.000 --> 0:57:32.160 Was an amazing There was an amazing there's an amazing 0:57:32.800 --> 0:57:36.840 bit of audio on the Joni Mitchell live album Miles 0:57:36.840 --> 0:57:40.360 of Aisles, which is a beautiful, beautiful live album I 0:57:40.360 --> 0:57:43.400 think from the Greek Theater in or a Follywood Bowl 0:57:43.400 --> 0:57:47.800 in LA and she's about to sing Circle Game, I think. 0:57:48.160 --> 0:57:51.480 And she's a painter, obviously, Johnny Mitchell, you know, great 0:57:51.640 --> 0:57:55.480 did a lot of her own album covers. But you know, 0:57:55.520 --> 0:57:57.240 she's got that great voice and she just goes. 0:57:57.680 --> 0:58:02.280 You know, I was always really envious of painters. They 0:58:02.280 --> 0:58:05.320 can be whatever they want. They can they can either 0:58:05.440 --> 0:58:08.320 just stay in the attic and not show anybody their stuff, 0:58:08.440 --> 0:58:11.080 or they can try and sell their work for a 0:58:11.240 --> 0:58:15.200 million dollars whatever. But you know, no one ever said 0:58:15.200 --> 0:58:18.680 to Van go hey Man, paint starry Night again. 0:58:26.120 --> 0:58:30.120 Brilliant. It's brilliant. There's a lot of there's a lot 0:58:30.160 --> 0:58:36.640 of like obvious benefits to being a musician as a performer, 0:58:36.920 --> 0:58:41.520 where gratification you know. 0:58:42.280 --> 0:58:45.760 You're fucking great at it. Though, I like being your friend. 0:58:46.000 --> 0:58:48.720 I like your friend. I like being your friend that 0:58:48.760 --> 0:58:49.800 I like being You're. 0:58:49.680 --> 0:58:52.520 Not uncomfortable with me being a fan, which I think 0:58:52.600 --> 0:58:59.080 is it's advanced. But I am a fan. But that's okay, 0:58:59.280 --> 0:59:01.800 because you can be a fan and a friend of someone. 0:59:01.920 --> 0:59:03.320 It's all right, it's alright. 0:59:03.800 --> 0:59:05.960 But I think it's a very good moment to share 0:59:06.360 --> 0:59:09.439 with anyone watching this who might not know that our 0:59:09.520 --> 0:59:13.640 worlds have smoothed together in a big way. 0:59:13.840 --> 0:59:19.640 Yeah, the musical of a movie that I did twenty 0:59:19.760 --> 0:59:25.040 years ago, Saving Grace, which now you've written the songs 0:59:25.080 --> 0:59:26.680 for the music. 0:59:26.400 --> 0:59:27.840 For the music. 0:59:28.160 --> 0:59:32.120 It's really good. It is really good. It is really good. 0:59:32.280 --> 0:59:34.480 So you're going to do it in London next year. 0:59:34.520 --> 0:59:35.640 I think that's what's going to happen. 0:59:35.720 --> 0:59:37.760 Yeah, it's it's all feeling very good. 0:59:38.520 --> 0:59:40.440 I think that's great. That means you and I are 0:59:40.600 --> 0:59:41.120 in London. 0:59:41.240 --> 0:59:43.440 Yeah, it's a long time, like I've been working on 0:59:43.480 --> 0:59:47.680 it for years and year, like maybe eight years, and 0:59:47.720 --> 0:59:49.680 these things take a long time. And I really feel 0:59:49.680 --> 0:59:52.120 like with fashion. Something fantastic. 0:59:52.200 --> 0:59:54.800 It's really cool, isn't that what we did? The preview shows? 0:59:55.040 --> 0:59:59.240 It's great. What was it like making that film Saving Grace? 1:00:00.200 --> 1:00:00.880 It was fine? 1:00:01.240 --> 1:00:02.160 Did you enjoy it? 1:00:02.720 --> 1:00:03.439 I loved it. 1:00:03.440 --> 1:00:07.600 It was a great brand of Brenda was so fantastic. 1:00:07.760 --> 1:00:11.480 We had We laughed the whole time we were making 1:00:11.480 --> 1:00:13.080 that film. And Cornwall and. 1:00:15.560 --> 1:00:20.200 That's brilliant. She and I made up. Did I think 1:00:20.280 --> 1:00:20.880 I told you this? 1:00:20.920 --> 1:00:25.120 We made up a sea shanty when we were in Cornwall. 1:00:25.480 --> 1:00:27.840 I can still remember it because and I will sing 1:00:27.840 --> 1:00:31.600 it for you now. Is he's got blonde hair, a 1:00:31.640 --> 1:00:35.200 black mustache, and a great brown bushy beard. But he's 1:00:35.280 --> 1:00:39.600 ginger down below me boys, ginger down below. 1:00:43.040 --> 1:00:48.040 So Brenda Bleafin played a really big role in my life. 1:00:48.080 --> 1:00:50.120 I was able to tell her actually when I met her, 1:00:50.160 --> 1:00:54.680 and it made her cry. Was The Secrets and Lies? 1:00:55.920 --> 1:01:00.000 Was the movie that made me look for my biology 1:01:00.120 --> 1:01:04.040 pull mother, oh, because I just thought. I just thought 1:01:04.040 --> 1:01:06.000 I was very close to my mom and I was 1:01:06.080 --> 1:01:08.200 very close to my dad. But you know, you've always 1:01:08.240 --> 1:01:11.440 got that question of like sure, I just want to 1:01:11.480 --> 1:01:15.400 see the the other bits that make me, you know, 1:01:16.080 --> 1:01:18.480 And and I watched Secrets and Lies, which is just 1:01:18.600 --> 1:01:21.920 such a work of genius, and I just thought that's 1:01:21.960 --> 1:01:24.919 an absolute ship show. And I feel like I could 1:01:24.920 --> 1:01:27.240 handle that, and if I could handle that, then I 1:01:27.280 --> 1:01:32.960 can probably handle whatever is it waiting for me and 1:01:32.960 --> 1:01:35.760 and indeed I could. But it was a big it 1:01:35.840 --> 1:01:37.960 was a big inspiration that movie. 1:01:38.160 --> 1:01:41.880 That's really that's kind of nice. Yeah, she's great. I 1:01:41.920 --> 1:01:44.760 mean she's a lovely person and a great actress. 1:01:45.040 --> 1:01:46.800 Yeah, one of my favorites. 1:01:47.480 --> 1:01:50.200 All right, we got to go. Yeah done. Yeah, are 1:01:50.200 --> 1:01:53.360 we seeing you soon? You're coming to our house or what. 1:01:55.800 --> 1:01:57.680 I'm going to be in. I'm in London. 1:01:57.720 --> 1:01:59.920 You've seen Meghan in London. Megan's going to London. 1:01:59.680 --> 1:02:01.680 And her old January February. 1:02:02.600 --> 1:02:04.000 Yeah, I think we'll be there. 1:02:03.880 --> 1:02:06.240 Because I'm also getting clueless on stage. 1:02:06.320 --> 1:02:10.320 You're getting the musical, which you've done the music and it's. 1:02:10.160 --> 1:02:12.120 Going to be at the Tripalgatha in the West End 1:02:12.160 --> 1:02:13.560 from the middle of February. 1:02:14.040 --> 1:02:15.440 All right, so we'll come and see that. 1:02:15.840 --> 1:02:16.560 It's going to be fun. 1:02:17.240 --> 1:02:17.800 Yeah. 1:02:17.960 --> 1:02:20.920 That would be just an ear for saving grace, that's 1:02:20.960 --> 1:02:21.400 all it is. 1:02:21.880 --> 1:02:27.640 Yeah, knock it off, all right, Well, bugger off, and 1:02:28.080 --> 1:02:30.800 I thanks for doing this and I'll see I love you. 1:02:31.680 --> 1:02:34.880 I love you too. Of course I love everyone in 1:02:34.920 --> 1:02:37.120 the podcast, but I actually do love you. 1:02:36.880 --> 1:02:42.800 You're it's actually fam proper is its family. I remember 1:02:42.840 --> 1:02:46.640 when we first met doing Saving Grace and we were 1:02:46.640 --> 1:02:49.680 talking to someone else and we were obviously bonding on 1:02:49.720 --> 1:02:52.840 the Scottish thing, and we were talking about bad language 1:02:52.880 --> 1:02:54.760 and I was like, people don't understand, and I said, 1:02:54.800 --> 1:02:57.720 A good way, a good way to explain it is 1:02:59.040 --> 1:03:05.240 is Craig here. He's a great count. And they're like, 1:03:05.840 --> 1:03:09.600 well you can't, you can't know. That's that's that's how 1:03:09.720 --> 1:03:11.520 to explain it. And you just looked at me and 1:03:11.520 --> 1:03:17.960 he went, I like you. 1:03:17.400 --> 1:03:20.840 That's so funny. There you all right, get out of here. 1:03:20.880 --> 1:03:22.600 I'll see you in London, big love, see you soon, 1:03:23.320 --> 1:03:28.840 all right, Love to you, bye bye.