1 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: Oh. 2 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 2: Last year, in the middle of my Boysover experiment, I 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:22,599 Speaker 2: took a clown class. Yes, a clown class. I'd tried 4 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 2: stand up and improv and other comedy classes before, but 5 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 2: the art of clown really changed the game for me. 6 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:37,199 Speaker 2: It became an unexpected space where I felt comfortable with 7 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:41,319 Speaker 2: myself and free from judgment. I'd even go as far 8 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 2: to say it was healing. There you go, nice switch around. 9 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 2: Wre's your feet around? That's my clown teacher Tally model. 10 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 2: After pitching the idea for this episode a few months ago, 11 00:00:57,400 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 2: I took my producer Emily to one of Tally's clown 12 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 2: classes to see what it was all about. Okay, Hope 13 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 2: and Emily. 14 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: Are here from the Boys Over podcast, and Hope took 15 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:12,960 Speaker 1: clown with me like a year ago and we've been 16 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: wed sets then, and uh to talk about it's going 17 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:19,120 Speaker 1: to talk about clown because clown is how ignorement. 18 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 2: Yes, it's true that clown is having a moment, but 19 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 2: that wasn't clear to us until after we decided to 20 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 2: make this episode. I wanted to talk about clown because 21 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:33,040 Speaker 2: in the year since my first class, it's played a 22 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 2: big role in my personal journey. But let's back up 23 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 2: for a second. Thank you. So what is clown? Simply put, 24 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 2: it's a form of expression. At times, it's like performance art. 25 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 2: Think Charlie Chaplin, mister Bean, Jim Carrey. It's dumb, like 26 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 2: so stupid dumb, and that's a compliment. But most importantly, 27 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 2: it's a state of unconditional acceptance of our most authentic selves, 28 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 2: flaws and all. I'm hopewordered and welcome to boys over 29 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 2: a space where we're learning and unlearning all the myths 30 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 2: were taught about love and relationships. If hearing the word 31 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 2: clown made you think of the face painted, rainbow haired 32 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 2: balloon animal making clown you grew up seeing at birthday parties, 33 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 2: you're not alone. That's also what my executive producer Christina 34 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 2: thought when Emily and I sat down in the studio 35 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 2: the day after we attended clown class. Christina, when hopes 36 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 2: we want to do an episode on clown, what was 37 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 2: your first. 38 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 3: Thought that you guys are putting on face paint and 39 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 3: a red nose and we're going to learn how to juggle. 40 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 2: I swear to God, I mean clown is a lot 41 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,359 Speaker 2: of that too. Like most of the time clown class 42 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 2: is in like a big room with like a lot 43 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,640 Speaker 2: of space. Sometimes it's kind of like acrobatic, like like 44 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 2: the sirk disilee. 45 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:23,519 Speaker 3: Of it all. How long have you been taking these classes? 46 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 2: I took one oh one and I had so much 47 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 2: fun and I loved my class so much. And then 48 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 2: I took two to oh one and I did I 49 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 2: dropped out halfway through. 50 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 3: You're a clown's class will drop out. 51 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 2: At this point, you're probably wondering, what does any of 52 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 2: this have to do with my boys Sober journey. Well, 53 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 2: as you all know, we're well into boys Soober October, 54 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 2: which I'm using as a way to really reflect on 55 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 2: where I'm at two years out from the start of 56 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 2: this journey. I went to clown class smack dab in 57 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 2: the middle of my boy Sober year, and by that 58 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 2: point I'd completely lost who I was my Internet persona, 59 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 2: and the pressure of keeping up that facade was taking 60 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 2: its toll on me being online. I got to this 61 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 2: point in like the whole voysover thing of it all, 62 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 2: where I was just like where am I? And where 63 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 2: is the performance? Because I think people who are comedians 64 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:25,160 Speaker 2: or actors, it's like some people really are just acting, 65 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,719 Speaker 2: and for me, I was like, it is me, but 66 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 2: is it me anymore? Like I think I had been 67 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 2: listening to opinions and taking it all in and I 68 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 2: was so old totally, Like I think I was really 69 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 2: pretty far away from myself, Like when I listen back 70 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 2: to those videos sometimes where I'm like, why am I 71 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 2: talking so fucking fast? And like why am I so scared? 72 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 2: And who is that girl? Like I do think I 73 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 2: had really gotten away from a version of myself that 74 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:55,720 Speaker 2: I knew. I think I was trying to be someone 75 00:04:55,760 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 2: else's clown New York City hot girl cl yeah, the 76 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 2: pound that you think the internet wants to a clown 77 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 2: that like a yeah, you know, I just wasn't being 78 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 2: myself because you. 79 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 3: Saw probably other people performing that way. 80 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 2: On right well, I was like, what am I supposed 81 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 2: to be? Right? Right? 82 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 3: Kind? 83 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:19,279 Speaker 2: One of these people want me to be? 84 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:22,479 Speaker 3: Like, but in the moment, you didn't feel like no, 85 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 3: like right. 86 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:27,280 Speaker 2: And the moment I wasn't like consciously sort of being 87 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 2: like I have to do what they want me to do, 88 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 2: but I also think like, how could that not have 89 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 2: bled into everything that I was doing? And I have 90 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,840 Speaker 2: to give them what I know will work? Right? There 91 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 2: was one exercising class that was the opposite of what 92 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 2: I was feeling. That encouraged you to perform however the 93 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 2: hell you wanted. It's called bah And when Emily and 94 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 2: I were in class, we were lucky enough to see 95 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 2: the students experience it. 96 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 1: I'm going to put five minutes all the timer and 97 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: then for five minutes you're just up here and make 98 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: us laugh. And I'm going to side direct and it's 99 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: the it's hard, and also it's. 100 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 4: Fine, you will die. 101 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:11,839 Speaker 2: In class, we were watching all of the students like, 102 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 2: go up and they had five minutes to make the 103 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 2: class laugh by themselves, by themselves and no talking. They 104 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 2: can say the word, but they can go. But if 105 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 2: they're like stuck or if it's not working. Yeah, now 106 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 2: this exercise might be a lot of people's worst nightmare. 107 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:30,279 Speaker 2: You're in front of a group of people alone and 108 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 2: you have to make everyone laugh by just doing whatever 109 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 2: your most vulnerable, exposed self can do in the moment. 110 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:40,919 Speaker 1: The weaknesses of vulnerability is do end up being your 111 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: best friend. I think it's much more interesting to see 112 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,920 Speaker 1: people do something beautiful and not being afraid to. 113 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 4: Fail at something and like actually doing it. 114 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 2: But yeah, if you could do something beautiful. 115 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:54,799 Speaker 4: Don't be afraid to show us something beautiful. 116 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 2: In case you're worried. All the students we saw perform 117 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 2: there buh got laughs. They were successful by doing the 118 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:07,719 Speaker 2: smallest things, like one clown played with a tape dispenser. 119 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 2: Another clown got so carried away that he sprayed whiteboard 120 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 2: cleaner into his mouth. 121 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 4: What you're doing, blown, thanks. 122 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 2: Things might kill you. Things might kill you, and none 123 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 2: of them died of embarrassment. 124 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 3: How you feel your body? 125 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, wow, hard, hard, scary, part scary, fun. 126 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 3: Fun at times. 127 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 2: Watching the students perform made me remember how taking that 128 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 2: clown class had changed my perspective on the world and 129 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 2: how I interact with it. This thing that's really important 130 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 2: in clown called like seeing seeing, where like you as 131 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 2: the performer on stage, you are seeing the audience and 132 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 2: you're seeing them see you, and they're seeing you see them. 133 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 2: And I think how that relates to like our day 134 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 2: to day lives. Yeah, is like we do not walk 135 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 2: around this earth just ourselves. But and it's like the 136 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 2: task should not be the most important thing. What should 137 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 2: be most important is like the present moment and the 138 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 2: people around you. Even when I watch back like the 139 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 2: podcast clips or whatever, like listen back. I'll catch myself 140 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 2: like not being present because I'm thinking about the question 141 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 2: I need to ask, right, And then I watch it 142 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 2: back and I think, damn it, Like because I wasn't 143 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 2: present in that moment, the task was more important than 144 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 2: the person. I miss something completely, Like we've missed connection completely. 145 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:58,439 Speaker 2: So what Clown is trying to teach you to do 146 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 2: is to like be honest about how stupid you can 147 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 2: be and the mistakes you can make and your flaws. 148 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 3: Accept your flaws and use your flaws to your advantage. 149 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 2: Use your flaws to your advantage. 150 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 3: It feels like it's a way to build confidence, so true, 151 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 3: to not be embarrassed so true. 152 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 2: Yes, and also to deeply connect with yourself. Clown is 153 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 2: all about emotion, and that is why I like it 154 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 2: because like in stand up, I'm like I have to 155 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 2: be smart, I have to like write a perfect punchline 156 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 2: and I have to write the best joke and like 157 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 2: you know what I mean, and so it's uncomfortable for me, 158 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 2: and those are my insecurities. But like in Clown, it's 159 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 2: like all feeling and I'm like I can do that, 160 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 2: you know, And so I got up in front of 161 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 2: everybody and there was a closed door, and again you're 162 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 2: not allowed to talk, and you're supposed to like speak 163 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 2: in gibberish, right, And the only way I really know 164 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 2: how to speak and gibberish is if I am impersonating 165 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 2: the way my older sister cries. 166 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 5: No the other guy like that, you know what I mean, 167 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:10,559 Speaker 5: And like I was, and so like that is how 168 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 5: I know how to speak and. 169 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 2: Gibberish, because I'm like, I can't do it any other way. 170 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:18,599 Speaker 2: And I used to do this swing between like despair 171 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 2: and euphoria, and that's like something that the clown will do. 172 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 2: And it was like this swing between like I was 173 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 2: in despair because I was pretending like there was like 174 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 2: a lover behind the door, and then I was like 175 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 2: turning back to the audience because Tally's always like include 176 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 2: the audience and you like look at them, and it 177 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 2: creates this moment of like being caught. And that's something 178 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 2: that they were talking about a lot too, is like 179 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 2: letting people in on that like mischief, like having a 180 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 2: secret or breaking a rule or being embarrassed, like so 181 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 2: often in adulthood, we're trying to hide all of these things. Yeah, 182 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 2: when we mess up, when we are feeling too sexual, 183 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:00,199 Speaker 2: when we're feeling too sad, when we're feeling too like, 184 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 2: pack it away, pack it away, pack it away. But 185 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:04,959 Speaker 2: clown is like, let them in on it. And then 186 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 2: everyone's like, oh my god, yeah, I know I feel 187 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 2: that too. 188 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: There's so much that creates our clown persona, but really 189 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: we're all already clowns. It's the admission to being a fool, 190 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: and that it's inextricable from the self that were the fool, 191 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,439 Speaker 1: and that is very freeing. 192 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 2: That is Tally Model, my amazing clown teacher. Tally is 193 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 2: of course a clown, but they're also an educator, an 194 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 2: interdisciplinary artist, and an award winning actor. You might have 195 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 2: seen them playing Stephanie Seue's on screen girlfriend and everything 196 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 2: everywhere all at once. We brought Tally into the studio 197 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 2: to have a bigger conversation about why an artful that's 198 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 2: so silly and stupid can be so powerful. To highlight 199 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 2: the very concept we did this interview in professional clown makeup. 200 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 2: I know you can't see us, but please imagine me 201 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:16,599 Speaker 2: a painted white face and exaggerated features, and Tally is 202 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 2: an old man, which is how they requested their makeup 203 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 2: be done. I can really only look in your eyes 204 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 2: with your makeup like this, like I can't focus on 205 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 2: the rest you. Lucky for me, he's looking at me easy. 206 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:30,679 Speaker 4: I find it very peaceful. 207 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 2: Oh, you're reminding me of my grandfather. I thought this 208 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:38,079 Speaker 2: was the perfect time to tell Tally just how much 209 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 2: Clown had meant to me. I don't know if I've 210 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:42,679 Speaker 2: said this to you already, but I tried taking two 211 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 2: stand up classes and I dropped out of both of 212 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:48,439 Speaker 2: them because it reminded me that I'm like bad at math, 213 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 2: you know what I mean. It reminded me that it 214 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 2: was like a bad student. I was like my bees 215 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 2: and c's were in my head the whole time, like 216 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 2: I can't do this, I can't write a punchline. I'm stupid. 217 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 3: I'm stupid. 218 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 2: But then Clown, It's like I'm more accustomed to Clown 219 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 2: because being stupid is such a good thing. It's like 220 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 2: sometimes when you say to someone, oh, I'm so stupid, 221 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 2: they're like no, but it's like we all are. Yes, 222 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 2: I'm stupid. You're stupid. Even if you're good at math, 223 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 2: you could be stupid, you know, and I just feel 224 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 2: like everyone could breathe a little easier if they let 225 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 2: themselves understand that, Like it is a human thing to 226 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 2: be stupid, to mess up, to be a fool, whatever. 227 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:29,319 Speaker 1: The best response to me that you can get in 228 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:32,079 Speaker 1: clown is that so stupid or that's so beautiful. 229 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 2: You used to say something in class that I love 230 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 2: so much, which was like everything that is right is 231 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 2: also wrong or something like that. 232 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:42,679 Speaker 4: I say, well, yeah, that the opposite is also true. 233 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, And I do think that there was something 234 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 2: that was like really nice about that, just because we 235 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 2: are so filled with contradictions, so it's like maybe I 236 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 2: feel this one thing now, but in a year, two years, 237 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 2: or ten years or whatever, I could feel the complete 238 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:00,559 Speaker 2: opposite of that. It opens up up so much. There 239 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 2: was that day in class where you made one person 240 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 2: get on stage at a time. Everyone else is lined up, 241 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 2: and you go up and you stand on stage and 242 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 2: you make eye contact with one person at a time 243 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 2: until you get through everybody, and it is one of 244 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 2: the most vulnerable things I have ever done. It immediately 245 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 2: made me cry. I remember crying so much in class. 246 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 2: I was like embarrassed, where I was like people think 247 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 2: I'm doing this for attention. Like people think these tears 248 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 2: are fake. Why do you think because a lot of 249 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 2: people cried, Why do you think it unlocks so much 250 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 2: just to look deeply at each other for a moment. 251 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 1: Well, being seen is so huge when we find people 252 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: that we can be seen by. It's really powerful just 253 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: existing in front of people, vulnerably without any sort of protection. 254 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 1: Just the standing, thinking about your palm's feet, totally grounded, 255 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 1: just standing and being received by people. It's really overwhelming 256 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: one thing. And then to be funny on top of it, 257 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: that's the next challenge. 258 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 2: We never do it though. There's like now a point 259 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 2: in a gay day where you're like, let's just look 260 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 2: at each other for a moment. You're either like talking 261 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 2: or flirting or working or thinking. There's like not a 262 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 2: moment where people just like stop and take in unless 263 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 2: it's really intentional. 264 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: Right, yes, because then we do have relationships with certain people, 265 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 1: if only for a second, if we can trust that 266 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 1: we're going to be safe, or even if you just 267 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: take that leap anyway, and we're often surprised by how 268 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 1: it's received in exchange with you know, another person at 269 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: the bodega can be really meaningful if you do take 270 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 1: the time to actually engage. Yeah, being seen is really powerful. 271 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 1: It's really subversive. And we are so externalized right now, 272 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: and on top of you know, our. 273 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 4: Feeds, which what a word being specific for us? 274 00:15:58,200 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 2: Right we are so lonely. 275 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: So to be able to break through that it is practice. 276 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 1: It takes practice. It can't just be a one time 277 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: and then we're done. 278 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 4: It's ongoing. 279 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 2: Well, everybody uses this language right now. Jester's privilege, the jester, 280 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 2: the clown. Like it's so in the zeitgeist. It's everywhere, everywhere, 281 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 2: and like I feel like you probably have a better 282 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 2: understanding of what it means and why it's coming up 283 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 2: right now. 284 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 1: Absurd times call for an absurd response. I don't know 285 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: if that's the right quote, but that's what I'm saying. 286 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: M m, Yeah, it's the logical response to fascism. 287 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 4: And there's a historical precedent. 288 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 2: Can you talk about that? A little clowns. 289 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 4: Tell the truth. That's our job, so you hold all 290 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 4: this truth at. 291 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: The same time, and if there's an imbalance, we. 292 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 4: Have to fix it. 293 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: So, for instance, right now, with fascism, our job is 294 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: to punch up really hard and then in times of 295 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: toxic positivity, we need to puncture that and say, like, 296 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: I don't know, wake up. 297 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 4: That's our job is to balance the world totally. 298 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 2: Can you just talk to me about how Clown has 299 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 2: helped you heal something specifically? 300 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:08,400 Speaker 4: Yes, So I was so angry for such a. 301 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: Long time at everything, the Me Too movement and yes, 302 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: all women and also felt like like I had to 303 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 1: prove something, and so was moving through the world with 304 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: just rage. 305 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 4: And Clown helps. 306 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:31,680 Speaker 1: You see the best of people, and so is through 307 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: engaging with other people that really softened me. 308 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 4: People are so supportive, they show up so. 309 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:44,680 Speaker 1: Generous and enthusiastic and want people to feel the way 310 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,439 Speaker 1: that they do when they get to be stupid. So 311 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 1: they're so consistent in their feedback about like yeah, more 312 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 1: eye contact or like let your mouth hang open. It's 313 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 1: so funny that kind of thing. And people just show 314 00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:00,399 Speaker 1: up for each other so beautifully, and there is a 315 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:06,159 Speaker 1: lot of tears and there's so much laughter and the 316 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:11,680 Speaker 1: consistency of people just playing so hard. It's so beautiful, 317 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: and that people are desperate for connection. Then with tech, 318 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: with AI, I'm so concerned about truth, representation of truth 319 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: and firmly believe that the only truth that we can 320 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: have now is in person to personation, and kind of 321 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:29,159 Speaker 1: illustrated that too. If you didn't know your neighbor, you 322 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:29,719 Speaker 1: were fucked. 323 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 4: So it's all about. 324 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 1: The now and the now and the now and that 325 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 1: seeing and recognizing that we're always in the constant flop 326 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 1: and recovery, it's so helpful and just made me want 327 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 1: to show up with more kindness. 328 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 2: Tell me how someone does embrace a flop? How do 329 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 2: you do it? 330 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 4: Oh, that's a great question. So we love a graceful fool. 331 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:56,479 Speaker 1: There's so many reels and tiktoks and stuff of people 332 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 1: reacting gracefully to their own flop. One of my favorites 333 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:05,440 Speaker 1: is two women who they're middle aged, and it's really icy, 334 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 1: so they're shuffling toward a car and one slips and 335 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: she lands pretty softly, and then she slides underneath the 336 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,959 Speaker 1: car and they're both helpless with laughing. Yeah, laughing so 337 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:17,880 Speaker 1: hard because if she just fell down and started crying, right, 338 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 1: I don't see that that's horrible. 339 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 2: But how does someone recover from a flop? Yes, you 340 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 2: can laugh about it, but I feel like a lot 341 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 2: of flops are not just a slip on the ice 342 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 2: with your friend, Like some flops are like deeply emotional 343 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 2: or it's like getting caught and maybe the biggest mistake 344 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:39,679 Speaker 2: of your life, like I think of my parents and heartbreak, 345 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:43,160 Speaker 2: I think of my own flops, Like, yeah, what are 346 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 2: sort of the mechanics of embracing it, especially if maybe 347 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:47,239 Speaker 2: you don't want to. 348 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,400 Speaker 1: First you have to admit that there was a flop, 349 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: and then back to sort of the now and the 350 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: now and then now and like planting your feet in 351 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: the ground, getting embodied and looking around with curiosity, observing 352 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: yourself with curiosity. And the only way that you can 353 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 1: fail is failing to admit that there was a failure. Yeah, 354 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: that's like a clown rule. But that's also true across 355 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: the board. So accountability for me, accountability and apologizing without 356 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: making it about myself is. 357 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:25,159 Speaker 2: A huge right. 358 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 4: It has been a huge revelation. 359 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 2: Let me be honest about something. While I was in 360 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:51,439 Speaker 2: clown class, I didn't necessarily put together the ways that 361 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:53,640 Speaker 2: clown could help me with what I was going through 362 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 2: on the internet at the time. I was just thrilled 363 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 2: to feel so safe and un self conscious in comedy 364 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 2: for once, but after talking to Italian talking about the 365 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:08,359 Speaker 2: flops and forgiveness and accountability inherent in the art of clown, 366 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 2: It's dawning on me that clown could be the way 367 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 2: to process some of the harder things I went through 368 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 2: that year, times that over a year later, I'm still 369 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 2: working through. I started realizing this in class watching the 370 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:25,920 Speaker 2: clowns BA exercises. There was one in particular that really 371 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 2: moved me, so I told Christina and Emily about it. 372 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:32,399 Speaker 2: In the studio. There was this moment last night where 373 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,880 Speaker 2: one of the clowns got up and took somebody's umbrella 374 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:43,120 Speaker 2: and opens the umbrella. Here you go, yeah, is that tall? 375 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,679 Speaker 2: And Tally's like does it actually? Is it taller than that? Like, 376 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 2: and this clown tries to push it open more and 377 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:58,399 Speaker 2: then it breaks and the clown like is like shit, 378 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:01,679 Speaker 2: Like facial expression is like I broke this ll. 379 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:09,639 Speaker 5: In. 380 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:14,160 Speaker 2: Tally's like, tell this girl who owned the umbrella, tell 381 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 2: them you're sorry. And so the clown is like miming grunting, 382 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:26,919 Speaker 2: right grunting, And then Tally's like, forgive yourself, Like you 383 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 2: can see on her face. She was like, Tally's like, 384 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 2: have you forgiven yourself? But she was like, you know, 385 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 2: and I think that, like in that moment and in 386 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 2: that flop, Like I think about the story that sort 387 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 2: of everyone got so mad at my biggest flop, you 388 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 2: know what I mean, my biggest one. I've talked about 389 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 2: some of my hardest moments for my voice over year, 390 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 2: already accidentally becoming the face of celibacy, having a boy lapse, 391 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,920 Speaker 2: going through a huge friend breakup, and suddenly having thousands 392 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 2: of eyes on me all the time. Something I haven't 393 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 2: really touched on yet, though, is the time I got 394 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,879 Speaker 2: canceled for making a bad joke online. In clown terms. 395 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:16,880 Speaker 2: It's my biggest flop, and honestly, I hate talking about it, 396 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 2: but I'm gonna tell you now. I think about the 397 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 2: story that sort of everyone got so mad at about 398 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,160 Speaker 2: me giving my number away at a pizza shop. So 399 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,639 Speaker 2: I went to this pizza shop with my friend, and 400 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 2: my friend was like, you need to teach me how 401 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,639 Speaker 2: to flirt with guys. So I'm like, okay, So I 402 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,880 Speaker 2: give my number to this very good looking guy at Lindustry, 403 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 2: oh yeah, in the West Village, and I give him 404 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 2: my number. I read it on a piece of paper. 405 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,640 Speaker 2: My friend she's like, wait, like, what if he has 406 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,640 Speaker 2: a girlfriend? What if this that? What if he doesn't 407 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:52,879 Speaker 2: like you? What if he doesn't want it? And I said, 408 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 2: who cares about? 409 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: Like? 410 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 2: Who cares? If he wants to text me? He will. 411 00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 2: If he doesn't, I'll never hear from him. No sweat 412 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 2: off anyone's back, you know. And I say, I don't 413 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 2: care about that guy. He works at a pizza shop. 414 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,360 Speaker 2: You can probably see where this story's going. I made 415 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 2: a TikTok naively said I don't care about that guy 416 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,119 Speaker 2: he works at a pizza shop, which in retrospect was 417 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:21,239 Speaker 2: the wrong thing to say and sounds really classist. What 418 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 2: I meant was I don't care about that guy, as 419 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:30,159 Speaker 2: in any guy. But that's neither here nor there. The 420 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 2: Internet ran with it, and I quickly realized that this 421 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 2: bad joke I had made would become a key piece 422 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:40,119 Speaker 2: of evidence used against my character by people who didn't 423 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 2: know me, which is understandable, but it still haunts me 424 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 2: to this day because it defined me as someone I 425 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 2: know I'm not, and in the moment I got really mad. 426 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:55,119 Speaker 2: Let's just say I did not handle the flop that gracefully. 427 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 2: My relationship with the Internet. I was resentful about it 428 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 2: and I hate the pressure. Yeah, and I felt crazy 429 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 2: and I didn't know how to be honest about that, 430 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 2: and I didn't know who to talk to you about that, 431 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 2: and I was just trying to. 432 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,640 Speaker 3: Keep performing, giving them what they wanted totally. 433 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 2: And then I gave them something and it was not 434 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:23,439 Speaker 2: myself and it was bad. And I think it just 435 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,199 Speaker 2: came out of a moment of trying to do what 436 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,919 Speaker 2: I thought I needed to do rather than what I 437 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 2: should have been doing or who I should have been. 438 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 2: But truly, like I was so far away from myself 439 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,399 Speaker 2: at that point, and I was also just so depressed, 440 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,879 Speaker 2: where like my I had this moment with my sister 441 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,199 Speaker 2: and even my friend was like I have never in 442 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 2: my life heard you question yourself so much, Like he 443 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,879 Speaker 2: was just like, what is this needing me to always 444 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 2: like affirm what you're saying? Like where's this coming from? 445 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 2: This isn't who you are? Like, you know, at what 446 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 2: point in all of this did you go to Cloon class? Well, 447 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 2: this was happening kind of in the midst of all 448 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 2: of it, Like. 449 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 3: It was after that you had graduated from being graduated. 450 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:06,879 Speaker 2: From Found class when I flopped so hard. 451 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 3: Did clown class come into your mind at all when 452 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 3: the personal part of your life was happening. 453 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 2: I don't think in that moment I was able to 454 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:19,160 Speaker 2: be like this is clown, forgive the audience, forgive yourself, 455 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 2: you know what I mean. Like on top of that, 456 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 2: there was like the whole like I was the face 457 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,679 Speaker 2: of celibacy part of it, so that was out of 458 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,639 Speaker 2: my control. And then like also at this time like 459 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 2: not to be whatever. It was just like it was 460 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,239 Speaker 2: for the first time ever I did not have a 461 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 2: sex partner or a boyfriend, so it was like really 462 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 2: truly on my own completely. 463 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 3: You were already having like already I was. 464 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:50,640 Speaker 2: Everyone. I've let people down, I've I've fucked up, I've flopped. 465 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:56,640 Speaker 2: I flopped, tried to embrace it, did not really embrace it. 466 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,679 Speaker 2: I'm getting more and more thankful for flop because I 467 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:06,399 Speaker 2: do think that pizza joke was completely out of alignment 468 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 2: with who I am, and I think more in alignment 469 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,920 Speaker 2: with someone I felt like I had to be. If 470 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,200 Speaker 2: this whole experience has taught me anything, it's that trying 471 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 2: to be someone you're not will only lead you down 472 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 2: the wrong path. I don't believe the words I said 473 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 2: in the joke, But I did say it, and I 474 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 2: can't expect forgiveness until I've forgiven myself for straying from 475 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:32,479 Speaker 2: my values. That's why the but exercise with that broken 476 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 2: umbrella spoke to me so much. When Tally told the 477 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,440 Speaker 2: clown to forgive herself, I realized that I still haven't 478 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,640 Speaker 2: healed because I have such a hard time forgiving myself. 479 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,879 Speaker 2: Coming back to Clown a year later, I feel like 480 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 2: I have a new roadmap to try and heal from this. 481 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:54,680 Speaker 2: I'm still totally finding confidence in my voice again. Yeah, fully, 482 00:27:55,320 --> 00:28:00,119 Speaker 2: I am definitely slowly but surely, like absolutely getting back 483 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,919 Speaker 2: to that place of like being able to trust my 484 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:07,159 Speaker 2: inner voice. But there was like a solid from like 485 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:15,200 Speaker 2: January twenty twenty four up until probably fifty days ago, 486 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 2: like I have not been able to like really trust 487 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 2: myself or trust my voice or trust yeah, my internal 488 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 2: what do you mean? Trust my clown. 489 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,360 Speaker 3: And what you would say publicly, what do you mean trust? 490 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 2: Just questioning myself all the time and thinking like yeah, 491 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 2: like deep down I have always adapted to be whatever 492 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 2: people need me to be, whatever people want me to be. 493 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 2: When I'm in Tennessee, I'm one girl when I'm in 494 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 2: New York, I'm another. 495 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:49,120 Speaker 3: Let me ask you, do you forgive them? 496 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 2: Yeah? Totally. That's the thing is I have to forgive them, 497 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 2: and I have to forgive myself. 498 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 3: And you do. I am getting there on them or 499 00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 3: yourself both. 500 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 2: Okay, you know I'm closer than i've ever been. That's great. 501 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 3: Will you go back to clown class? 502 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 2: Yeah? I need to take two one again because I 503 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 2: dropped out. 504 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, we can't have you be a clown spiel dropout. No, 505 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 3: all three of us should do a regular dropping class. 506 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 2: We really should do a workshop. 507 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 3: I don't want to run. 508 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 4: You know what, you can make other noises. 509 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 2: You need to get connected to your guttural noises. You 510 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 2: can go. I haven't gone back to two oh one, 511 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 2: and we haven't gotten Christina to a clown class yet. 512 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 2: But Emily and I did attend the recital where the 513 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 2: students we saw in Clown one oh one got to 514 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 2: graduate as full fledged clowns. Thank you much for showing 515 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 2: your talent. 516 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: So we're gonna make this walkway clear because I now. 517 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 4: Have the honor of handing out. 518 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: These diplomas. 519 00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 2: And as each clown walked down the aisle to get 520 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 2: their diplom They performed a beautiful choreographed fall. Apparently, to 521 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 2: become a clown you have to face one final flop 522 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 2: before standing up and getting ready to flop again and 523 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:26,959 Speaker 2: again and again and again. I need to remember that 524 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 2: next time I flop, because certainly there's more bumps ahead. 525 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 2: But next time I won't let it kill me. I'll 526 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 2: get up gracefully and move forward. Or maybe I won't. 527 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 2: That's okay, that's clown. I need to give a huge, 528 00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 2: huge thank you to Tally for letting us shadow their 529 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 2: clown class and for coming to talk to us. Tally 530 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,959 Speaker 2: performs clown all over New York and beyond. You can 531 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 2: keep track of their shows by following their substack. Just 532 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 2: go to Tallymodel dot substack dot com. That's t A 533 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 2: L L I E M E D E L dot 534 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 2: substack dot com. They have a show on November sixth 535 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 2: in New York City called clown is having a Moment. 536 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 2: I'm gonna go, and I hope to see you there too. 537 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,960 Speaker 2: And go take a clown class, whether it's Tally's class 538 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 2: at the Brooklyn Comedy Collective or another class near You 539 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 2: give it a shot. You might just heal from it. 540 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 2: I'm gonna sign up for TUA one myself and prepare 541 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 2: to recover from my next flop. Thank you so much 542 00:31:45,640 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 2: for listening, and I'll talk to y'all next week. Sober 543 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 2: is a production of iHeart Podcasts. I'm your host, Hopewordard. 544 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Christina Everett and Julie Pinero. Our 545 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 2: supervising producer is Emily Meronoff. Our assistant producer is Logan Palau. 546 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:20,480 Speaker 2: Engineering by Bahid Fraser and mixing and mastering by Abu Zafar. 547 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 2: If you liked this episode, please tell a friend and 548 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 2: don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe to Boy Sober 549 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 2: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get 550 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 2: your favorite shows