Speaker 1: The following is a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com
Speaker 1: and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club. This He's Talking Cowboys
Speaker 1: Screaming live from the Dallas Cowboys World Hours at the
Speaker 1: Star in fris Joe Live. No your hosts, Rob Phillips,
Speaker 1: heck My Harrison, Danny Serek, and Kyle Yeomans. It's another
Speaker 1: beautiful Tuesday, and you know what that means. It's another
Speaker 1: edition of Talking Cowboys here on Dallas Cowboys dot Com.
Speaker 1: So glad you're all with us, and it is a
Speaker 1: beautiful day, but it's a better day to talk about
Speaker 1: your Dallas Cowboys, and we're gonna do just that over
Speaker 1: the next sixty minutes or so. Kyle Yeoman's Heta Harrison,
Speaker 1: Isaiah stand Back and the Great Rob Phillips joining us
Speaker 1: as always. And guys, I just about thirty seconds before
Speaker 1: this open happened, I continue to put my foot in
Speaker 1: my mouth, which I feel like I've been doing a
Speaker 1: lot recently in terms of bets that have been made.
Speaker 1: And I just lost ten bucks to Heckma. But guys,
Speaker 1: I at least lived through the half marathon, which is great.
Speaker 1: But now I gotta take Heckma. The lunch I guess tenago,
Speaker 1: do it, Kyle and see you you should have learned.
Speaker 1: You should learn about putting your foot in your mouth.
Speaker 1: That's just something you're doing in twenty twenty, doll you
Speaker 1: got you gotta provide a little bit of entertainment. I
Speaker 1: guess throughout the course set. But as always, we're having
Speaker 1: some fun and excited to talk with Isaiah again. And Isaiah,
Speaker 1: I know you're at least probably out of the four
Speaker 1: of us here, you're the most qualified to have run
Speaker 1: maybe a half marathon or done something of the sort.
Speaker 1: But have you ever done long distance running before or
Speaker 1: is that something that I need to hit you up about.
Speaker 1: So one time I ran about three blocks to a
Speaker 1: pit bull, got losing the neighborhood. That couch, that couch. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know we got covered or that, But that's
Speaker 1: about an extent of my long business running. He hit
Speaker 1: the three blocks, he was gone. Rob's a big time runner.
Speaker 1: Though I don't think i've run period in like twenty
Speaker 1: years because of my man I've got bad feet. I
Speaker 1: did run the mile back in high school, though, so
Speaker 1: I could have helped you in like nineteen ninety seven.
Speaker 1: Now so much you don't want to know how old
Speaker 1: I was in nineteen ninety seven. Let's just let's throw
Speaker 1: that out there. But we're gonna keep on moving along,
Speaker 1: not talking about running. We're gonna be talking about the
Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys, and we're gonna hit up a Layton vander
Speaker 1: rash and in his health and the update fair. We're
Speaker 1: gonna talk about the cornerback position and even some of
Speaker 1: that offense as well, and some of the new look
Speaker 1: offense on that side of the football. But guys, I
Speaker 1: kind of wanted to keep some of uh, this is hey,
Speaker 1: this is uh, this is the point where I try
Speaker 1: to jump in and do my best kl of impersonation. Uh,
Speaker 1: but where we obviously the topic is because we're all
Speaker 1: board in the house, and in the house board ESPN
Speaker 1: has and treated us to the Last Dance. And I
Speaker 1: don't know about you, guys, but it was wonderful for
Speaker 1: me to be able to take a stroll back down
Speaker 1: memory lane and see the greatness of Michael Jordan. Rob
Speaker 1: I'll start with you, what did you think about the series?
Speaker 1: I think we're all about the same age, and man,
Speaker 1: it was just a ass from the past for me.
Speaker 1: I mean, I was about twelve years old when Jordan
Speaker 1: was doing his thing. I had. I was a Knicks fan.
Speaker 1: I had the Knicks starter jacket. Who all that? How
Speaker 1: did you actually because Derek Harper the MAVs. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: so bad and he left for New York and actually
Speaker 1: was on a winning team and that makes sense. I
Speaker 1: carried my fanom over there. But yeah, it was incredible.
Speaker 1: It was a nice break for everybody, I think, to
Speaker 1: enjoy some type of sports. And it's got people talking about,
Speaker 1: you know, the NFL, and could the NFL have a
Speaker 1: storyline that's worthy of a ten hour documentary series? And
Speaker 1: I think the Dallas Cowboys would have one personally. We
Speaker 1: did a mail back question on that. I think absolutely
Speaker 1: there's an one for the Dallas Cowboys who can talk
Speaker 1: about controversy that Thank god they didn't have social media
Speaker 1: back then during those days, but man, that would be
Speaker 1: awesome just to hear some of those stories. And if
Speaker 1: you know ESPN or anyone had any any video clips
Speaker 1: of that team, because those guys were great to talk about.
Speaker 1: Uh dynasty, But what about for you? I said, just
Speaker 1: looking over the last dance? Yeah, man, over the last
Speaker 1: And first of all, I want to address the fact
Speaker 1: that Rogers admitted that he's a bad Wagon, he's a
Speaker 1: Bandwagon fan, and he did he did. You know, it
Speaker 1: takes a man to admit that. So that no question, no, no,
Speaker 1: But you know the same here man. I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't remember how old I was, but I mean I
Speaker 1: definitely remember watching that. I was definitely a basketball fan.
Speaker 1: I was Seattle SuperSonics fan. Yeah, yeah, they touched on
Speaker 1: that episodes. I was at seven and eight h so yeah,
Speaker 1: obviously Gary Payton and yeah, rain man, I had to
Speaker 1: bike jump haircut. Also, I had the little restail came. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I remember I was getting our birth kicked in
Speaker 1: the finals of that year. But you know, the city
Speaker 1: being on fire. But Jordan was my dude. Man, you
Speaker 1: couldn't tell me anything before I was a football player.
Speaker 1: I was a basketball and baseball guy. So um, basketball
Speaker 1: is my sport man. And Jordan his his mentality, his
Speaker 1: voracious and his ferociousness, his intensity, determination, you know, he
Speaker 1: didn't care. I'm I'm I've been touted as a highly
Speaker 1: competitive individual. I don't know where they came from, but
Speaker 1: I may or may not be kind of competitive. So
Speaker 1: you know, I resonated with him, right, I identified myself
Speaker 1: with Jordan and just how he carried himself to the game.
Speaker 1: And it's amazing that they were able to follow him
Speaker 1: and put that together. Right. I don't know how long
Speaker 1: I've been sitting on all this, but they did a
Speaker 1: heck of a job putting it together, and they touched
Speaker 1: on a lot of points. I think there are some
Speaker 1: something that all of us could have taken from that individually. Questions, Oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: for you know, when I when I looked at the
Speaker 1: the I was looking at the last dance with my son.
Speaker 1: As we were talking earlier. I have a thirteen year
Speaker 1: old son that thinks he's pretty good at sports. And
Speaker 1: he's one of those these kids that believe that you
Speaker 1: take an iPhone and you know, run a few routes
Speaker 1: and add some rap lyrics to the back of and
Speaker 1: that makes you great. Right, And so looking at you know,
Speaker 1: looking at looking at the last dance and just showing
Speaker 1: him what it takes to be great. Seeing Jordan in
Speaker 1: those first couple of episodes talk about getting cut in
Speaker 1: the legendary story about him having to play JV as
Speaker 1: a sophomore, you know, and just I mean, just the
Speaker 1: whole story about Michael Jordan what he's had to do
Speaker 1: the overcoming be as great as he is. I think
Speaker 1: it's something of note. And that's why Fortune five hundred
Speaker 1: companies pay guys like that thousands of dollars, hundreds of
Speaker 1: thousands of dollars to come in and talk to that
Speaker 1: sales team, because everybody wants to tap in to that
Speaker 1: championship pedigree and what he was able to do in
Speaker 1: that competitive nature to get to the goat status. And
Speaker 1: it's a term that is used too often nowadays, greatest
Speaker 1: of all time. But we all got ten hours to
Speaker 1: see and bear witness to what Michael Jordan's greatness was
Speaker 1: all about. I mean, man, he got up to play anybody.
Speaker 1: I mean with the one where he's talking about George
Speaker 1: Carl walked pass him, ignored him, you know, a ball boy,
Speaker 1: he didn't pass him the ball doing shoot arounds, and
Speaker 1: so he just took it out on anybody for whatever
Speaker 1: it was. But it's that it's that killer instinct that
Speaker 1: I think we all were able to notice and see.
Speaker 1: And the refreshing thing about Michael Jordan is that, look, man,
Speaker 1: he may have been friends with guys off the court
Speaker 1: and all of that, and I'm not one of those
Speaker 1: guys as all that, you know, you gotta be mean
Speaker 1: and all that stuff, But I just felt as though, man,
Speaker 1: it was that killer instinct that Michael Jordan had that
Speaker 1: mixed him an international icon. Everybody recognizes that when the
Speaker 1: game's on the line, there's only one person that you
Speaker 1: want with the ball in her hand, and that's Michael Jordan.
Speaker 1: And so look, how how did we take that, bottle
Speaker 1: it up and play in our guys? Right? Just hack mother,
Speaker 1: That's that's kind of the that's the way I want
Speaker 1: to tie this in with the Dallas Cowboys. You mentioned
Speaker 1: the killer instinct, Isaiah talked about the competitiveness. You talk
Speaker 1: about what made Michael Jordan great, and what ended up
Speaker 1: making those nineties Bulls great. It's a lot of what
Speaker 1: you want in a team moving forward, even here in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty. I mean, you can look thirty years down
Speaker 1: the road almost and it's still something that you want
Speaker 1: in your franchise, you want in your team, And it
Speaker 1: seemed like maybe the twenty nineteen Dallas Cowboys didn't necessarily
Speaker 1: have that. They didn't have that go to guy, they
Speaker 1: didn't have that mentality, And you could chalk it up
Speaker 1: to the championship mentality or the Mamba mentality, it doesn't
Speaker 1: matter what you call it. It's the same sort of
Speaker 1: competitiveness and break back type of work ethic, and it
Speaker 1: just seemed like maybe the locker room wasn't on the
Speaker 1: same page. Last year. You had Michael Bennett come in
Speaker 1: and then immediately had to stand up on a table
Speaker 1: in a locker room after a loss, and then that
Speaker 1: just kind of threw things out of lack as well.
Speaker 1: But Rob, I want to ask you the question of
Speaker 1: last year's Dallas Cowboys. Why wasn't it something like that
Speaker 1: whenever you had the talent, you had something positive in
Speaker 1: your direction, but you just weren't able to put it together. Well,
Speaker 1: I think from a leadership standpoint, I mean, you can't.
Speaker 1: You can't equate what Michael and presented in sports to
Speaker 1: anything now. It's just it's just not possible. I think.
Speaker 1: I think from the Cowboys perspective, they had a young
Speaker 1: leadership group last year, and guys like Jason Winton weren't
Speaker 1: his vocal in the past. I think they let some
Speaker 1: of the younger guys take over there, and I think
Speaker 1: they're still trying to settle in their roles there. I
Speaker 1: just think on the field they didn't play. It wasn't
Speaker 1: so much locker room leadership as they didn't do enough
Speaker 1: winning things week to week. On the field, they just defensively.
Speaker 1: I think some of the issues they hadn't were due
Speaker 1: to trying to make big plays instead of maybe the
Speaker 1: spectacular over the solid type thing, and they weren't able
Speaker 1: to handle certain situations. I mean, Jason Garrett, I know
Speaker 1: he's not here anymore, but he was right in terms
Speaker 1: of handling adversity throughout the courses of games, and I
Speaker 1: don't think they handled that as well as they did
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago. And that's when you don't
Speaker 1: do that, that's why you lose a bunch of close games.
Speaker 1: And that's to me, that's what happened, more so than
Speaker 1: than leadership, because I do think a guy like Dak Prescott,
Speaker 1: if you want to make a comparison to what we
Speaker 1: watch in that documentary, you're one of your best players
Speaker 1: is also one of your hardest workers. And I think
Speaker 1: that was that was Jordan's greatest gift is that he
Speaker 1: even said in the dock he won't do he won't
Speaker 1: ask anybody to do anything that he won't do himself,
Speaker 1: and yeah, I think that's that's very important to do.
Speaker 1: And I do think they have leadership on this team.
Speaker 1: I'll go to big it back off your point where
Speaker 1: you made some great points. Man. I think one of
Speaker 1: the things that I think that nobody was really expecting
Speaker 1: to gain from this particular series was the management that
Speaker 1: it required to manage a canon right and Phil Jackson,
Speaker 1: how he managed grown men and with grown man problems
Speaker 1: and with different personalities, and how he would do with
Speaker 1: to still facilitate all that and make it work right
Speaker 1: and we solve his his his management skills, you know,
Speaker 1: especially with Rob men right and the issues that the
Speaker 1: quote unquote issues that Rob mean for in it right.
Speaker 1: But he understood Roban, he understood that, you know, what
Speaker 1: he needed right with each individual. He understood how he
Speaker 1: needed to let Jordan be Jordan right, but he also
Speaker 1: knew how to bring everything together. So I think that
Speaker 1: element was kind of was what could possibly have been
Speaker 1: overlooked among us all the greatness that Jordan was providing
Speaker 1: in this series, but you know, managing of men. And
Speaker 1: I think McCarthy coming in and right, it's gonna be
Speaker 1: a big part of that. I think he's he's probably
Speaker 1: a better manager of men, uh they than Garrett was
Speaker 1: in the past, right, And I think that we're gonna
Speaker 1: see that carry out throughout this upcoming season. But playing
Speaker 1: off of somebody, I know, somebody that I consider and
Speaker 1: most people get to consider to be the goat of
Speaker 1: all time football, all time quarterbacks, is Tom Brady. Right.
Speaker 1: And the experience that I had been through a TV
Speaker 1: twelve out in New England, and so as I was
Speaker 1: watching the last Dance, I was seeing that resemblance, right.
Speaker 1: I was seeing that ferociousness. I was seeing that tenacity,
Speaker 1: that that unwillingness to be okay with losing that that drive,
Speaker 1: that drive that's from within, right, the goal oriented drive.
Speaker 1: Nothing else matters unless I get the ring. I don't
Speaker 1: care about a dog on AFC Championship, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't care about all the playoff runs. I care about
Speaker 1: that last result, which is holding up that dog Lombardi Chorltan, Right,
Speaker 1: and that's all that matter. And I mean there was
Speaker 1: no different when we looked at Jordan Right. So I
Speaker 1: saw a lot of resemblances in terms of my particular
Speaker 1: experience with what we considered to be the goal in football. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I say I kind of wanted to pick back
Speaker 1: off of that really quickly just before we get to
Speaker 1: hack m up. But Isaiah, how did his mindset and
Speaker 1: how did his championship mentality? Talking about Tom Brady, how
Speaker 1: did that affect you as a player? Man? It helped
Speaker 1: me elevate my my expectations of my not only myself
Speaker 1: but my environment. And um, I had came obviously prior
Speaker 1: to Lunch of New England. I was here in Dallas, right,
Speaker 1: So we had a ton of great talent, and individually
Speaker 1: I saw amazing drive within like Jason Witten, you know, individually,
Speaker 1: I saw amazing drive within like Tara Horns. So I
Speaker 1: saw I saw, I saw greatness in the individual platform,
Speaker 1: but I didn't see it in the sense of, you know,
Speaker 1: being out spoken and people really follow only those people, right. Um,
Speaker 1: It's one thing to have somebody great, but it's another
Speaker 1: thing for that person to be great, hold everybody to
Speaker 1: that expectation and everybody be be okay following that person.
Speaker 1: And I think that's what did what the difference was
Speaker 1: when I went to New England TV twelve. He had
Speaker 1: all those intangibles that that with mto had in terms
Speaker 1: of drive and competitiveness and all the things that we
Speaker 1: always that we always highlight. However, you got in line, right,
Speaker 1: you followed TV twelve, right, and he you know the
Speaker 1: same thing with George. He's not gonna ask you do
Speaker 1: anything he's not doing, right, He's gonna study harder, he's
Speaker 1: gonna be there earlier than you. Right, He's gonna hold
Speaker 1: himself to a higher standard. Right, He's him and Belichick's
Speaker 1: gonna call him out right. He had a great manager
Speaker 1: of men, right, Belichick. So all those things, you see,
Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to find a great player of
Speaker 1: history that didn't have a great coach, right, and you
Speaker 1: know that was kind of leading them along the way.
Speaker 1: So you know, I think all those things are the
Speaker 1: things that I identified with TV twelve and my experience,
Speaker 1: he just he just outworked you, right, and he didn't lose.
Speaker 1: I mean, I could tell you before and before Friday
Speaker 1: practice or after Friday practices, we would go out there.
Speaker 1: We will have a competition to see who can who
Speaker 1: can pump the ball within the five yard line, you know,
Speaker 1: and it was myself, him and Horrior and it was
Speaker 1: just competitive. It was crazy how it was so simple
Speaker 1: of the thing just to hey, this is what we
Speaker 1: do on Fridays. But like I could, I could tell
Speaker 1: he hated to lose. And I'm like, I like this, dude,
Speaker 1: he's just like me. And all I get the impression
Speaker 1: that that Tom probably is a guy that invents slights,
Speaker 1: just like Jordan did, just anything to get himself going good. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, it wasn't the what what do
Speaker 1: they call it, heck, they call up the uh not
Speaker 1: the billboards, but what do you call it? Whatever, the
Speaker 1: bulletin board material. Always looking for that, right, and we
Speaker 1: end absolutely Coach Belichick leaned on that heavily. I don't
Speaker 1: know if I'm telling his secrets, but he would we
Speaker 1: would waiting for for somebody on. He would wait for
Speaker 1: somebody in the opposing team to say something, or you know,
Speaker 1: we're Rex Ryan y. Rex Ryan was always talking, you know,
Speaker 1: the big rivalry between the Patriots and the Jets, and
Speaker 1: Rex Ryan would say something crazy and he would post
Speaker 1: it up and he was like, well, guys, I guess
Speaker 1: we're not good enough for guys, I guess we're Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he was and he was just in the meeting
Speaker 1: like that, right, like well, all right, we're gonna practice
Speaker 1: like heck, no, we're not inything like that, right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he just always he was the same way. He just
Speaker 1: sat back and that's why you don't see him talk.
Speaker 1: He's not gonna give anybody in any bullets board material, right,
Speaker 1: so he just lets everybody else do the talking. And
Speaker 1: then he's relying on you to have that internal driver
Speaker 1: and go out there and bust some money in their mouth. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I loved it. And you know the thing that I was,
Speaker 1: you know, pointing out to my son is that, you know,
Speaker 1: there are thousands of guys who have played the game
Speaker 1: of basketball and football, but there are a few that
Speaker 1: you can see that has that killer Jean Dna, like
Speaker 1: Michael Jordan has, like Tom Brady has, like all of
Speaker 1: the greats that have come through the game. And you're right, Isaiah,
Speaker 1: that's one of the things you don't think about is
Speaker 1: great coaching, great players, they almost hand the glove, they
Speaker 1: come together. When you think about, you know, a killer
Speaker 1: like Lawrence Taylor, you know, and his and his coach
Speaker 1: Parcels being his coach. It's just look, I just felt
Speaker 1: like when when I was watching it and just looking
Speaker 1: at how you have guys like Michael Jordan play the
Speaker 1: game and these younger the younger generation taking witness to that.
Speaker 1: And also, you know, thinking about the Dallas Cowboys, and
Speaker 1: you're right, Rob Dak Prescott is that guy that you know,
Speaker 1: leads by example. He puts it on the line, and
Speaker 1: he's the guy that even with draft status all of
Speaker 1: that stuff, that if the game is on the line,
Speaker 1: you know that Dad can get it done for you.
Speaker 1: And so I just, you know, I'm hoping that all
Speaker 1: of our guys, and I'm sure they were well watching
Speaker 1: the Last Last Dance, but I think it was just
Speaker 1: something great to witness for everyone that loves sports. Now,
Speaker 1: my question is is, of course, with Michael Jordan and
Speaker 1: with the Last Dance and that whole Bulls dynasty, it
Speaker 1: took time to get to that point. It wasn't an
Speaker 1: overnight thing. They didn't watch a documentary like Heckma just
Speaker 1: said and then all of a sudden half a championship mentality.
Speaker 1: It took the preparation and took all of the hard
Speaker 1: work leading up to that point. But my question is
Speaker 1: is there's got to be supporting cast around it too.
Speaker 1: It can't just be one guy shouting from the rooftops.
Speaker 1: It's got to be a collective group effort. Who else
Speaker 1: needs to get involved because we've we've thrown Dak's name
Speaker 1: out there, and he's of course going to be the
Speaker 1: go to. He's all eyes on him. He's the Cowboys quarterback. Sure,
Speaker 1: we're not comparing him to Michael Jordan. We're just talking
Speaker 1: about his mentality and his workout. Yes, however, you're gonna
Speaker 1: have You're gonna have to have some support group. And
Speaker 1: I know you could talk about the offense. But on
Speaker 1: the defensive side of the football, who do you want
Speaker 1: to step up? Who is the leader of that defense
Speaker 1: moving forward? Tank Lawrence? Okay, yeah, take yeah, take Lawrence
Speaker 1: as a guy, and thank Lawrence is is the guy
Speaker 1: that you know, comes coming from a small school, uh
Speaker 1: and making it, you know, to the NFL. But what
Speaker 1: he's done on this level, I think what he's done,
Speaker 1: it speaks for itself, you know. And so I see
Speaker 1: Tank Lawrence. If you're doing the correlation between Michael Jordan,
Speaker 1: he's your Dennis Rodman, right, He's your clean up guy.
Speaker 1: And so there's a lot of role players, as you know,
Speaker 1: who's your Scottie Pippen. I don't know, but I'm thinking
Speaker 1: Tank Lawrence particular being one of those role players of
Speaker 1: one of those leaders. In conjunction with Dak Prescott, I agree,
Speaker 1: and I think it's it's a hard comparison to make
Speaker 1: between the two sports because in basketball, takes one guy,
Speaker 1: one guy that can really change the course of your
Speaker 1: entire team with the supporting cast around him. Man Isaiah
Speaker 1: can speak this better than anybody. This is the ultimate
Speaker 1: team sport. And you can have you can have five,
Speaker 1: you can have ten great players, but if you don't
Speaker 1: have one to fifty three guys that can step in
Speaker 1: and fill their roles, that's why we talk about depth
Speaker 1: so much and trying to withstand that because it's it
Speaker 1: really takes an entire group over the course of a
Speaker 1: long season to do it. But to answer your question, Kyle, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I think it starts with Tank because he's
Speaker 1: the senior guy on the defense in terms of the
Speaker 1: starting role, every down role. And then after that, you know,
Speaker 1: a healthy Layton vander esh And and some of the
Speaker 1: other young guys have to continue to step forward. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I agree with you guys on that, but one thing
Speaker 1: I want to point out is that you know it
Speaker 1: is a totally different right. It's amazing point. In terms
Speaker 1: of the basketball, you got one guy that's a dog
Speaker 1: and he'll you know, take the whole team. But in football,
Speaker 1: you need, from my experience, you need one person and
Speaker 1: all three phases of the game to step up and
Speaker 1: take that take on that role. Right. And usually on
Speaker 1: offense side of the ball, we always say it needs
Speaker 1: to be the quarterback. Right on defense, you know, everybody
Speaker 1: thinks about a guy like ray Lewis, right, and you
Speaker 1: need somebody who's gonna be that vocal leader in the
Speaker 1: middle of the defense, right. And then you need a
Speaker 1: special team's dog, right, You need a special team's dog.
Speaker 1: And I can tell you guys like when I played
Speaker 1: here in Dallas, it was Keith Davis. Keith you know
Speaker 1: KD was KD was that dude, right he you know
Speaker 1: everybody else I don't know how many how much the
Speaker 1: public knew about KD and how much he's talking about
Speaker 1: when we got in that huddle, you knew KD was
Speaker 1: that dude, right, And you for Katie, right, And and
Speaker 1: that's that's a that's a weight that you have to
Speaker 1: bear as a leader. Um and as he was a
Speaker 1: special teams leader right um. And you know, on the
Speaker 1: offensive side of the ball, it was really like with
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, for for for for a
Speaker 1: whole offense right and for our particular receiver group it
Speaker 1: was TiO obviously, but you always you gotta have those
Speaker 1: those individuals in those three phases of the game, offense, defensive,
Speaker 1: special teams that everybody looks to that everybody looks to
Speaker 1: it because it's gonna get hard. There's gonna be some
Speaker 1: holes in the game. There's gonna be some parts that
Speaker 1: you really got to dig yourself out some holes. And
Speaker 1: when you when when you're in those positions, you need
Speaker 1: that one that one staff as individual that you know
Speaker 1: is not gonna waiver and that you can rely on
Speaker 1: to get you ready to roll. And that's gonna come through.
Speaker 1: And that's that's where the Cowboys have to find. I
Speaker 1: don't think it's just it. It's not all about role players.
Speaker 1: It's easy to fall in line if you have somebody
Speaker 1: that's leading. That's a great point, Isaiah. Really I love
Speaker 1: that it's easy to fall in line, but you gotta
Speaker 1: have a leader out there. And I think both sides
Speaker 1: of the football are gonna need a leader. Tank Lawrence
Speaker 1: Dak Prescott. Doesn't matter who it is, somebody who's gonna
Speaker 1: have to step up before that defense. One of the
Speaker 1: biggest missing pieces to the twenty nineteen squad is returning
Speaker 1: seemingly in twenty twenty. We're gonna talk about that next
Speaker 1: when we come back after a quick break here on
Speaker 1: Talking Cowboys. I'm Jay Novachek, former tight end for the
Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys. Back in the day, I was the guy
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Speaker 1: on GWS one course September twenty nineteen, to Talk in Cowboys.
Speaker 1: It's a segment number two here of talking Cowboys here
Speaker 1: on a beautiful Tuesday afternoon. Glad you're with us and
Speaker 1: hope you're staying safe out there, staying socially distant, says
Speaker 1: we are in our respective SWBC Mortgage Studios, Rob, Philip
Speaker 1: tach My Harrison, the Great Isaiah stand back our residence
Speaker 1: super Bowl champion down in the bottom corner from myself,
Speaker 1: I'm Kyle Yeomans, and guys, we spent that last segment
Speaker 1: talking through the last dance and how that relates to
Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboys. Not in the fact of making an
Speaker 1: extra documentary, because I think ten part series on the
Speaker 1: nineties Cowboys would. I would be glued to the screen
Speaker 1: if that were the case. Let's do it. I'm right
Speaker 1: there with you, Rob, let's get it done. Let's find
Speaker 1: a way to do it. But more so in the
Speaker 1: championship mentality and the mentality that it takes to win titles,
Speaker 1: not just the title, but titles plural, because that's what
Speaker 1: Michael Jordan and that entire bull staff had now moving on,
Speaker 1: but kind of staying similar, there was a big missing
Speaker 1: piece to this Dallas Cowboys defense in twenty nineteen, and
Speaker 1: that was Layton Vanderesh, young healthy linebacker going into the season,
Speaker 1: really looking to take a next step in his second
Speaker 1: year with the Cowboys. Instead, it was derailed by a
Speaker 1: neck injury and a long road back. Let's just say that,
Speaker 1: a long road back all the way through, and an
Speaker 1: uncertain one at that. But some news kind of surface
Speaker 1: this week Patrick Walker from CBS Sports throughout an article.
Speaker 1: There have been some other articles that have followed up
Speaker 1: since then. I know Dallas Cowboys dot Com has been
Speaker 1: on top of it as well. But Rob, what have
Speaker 1: you heard around Layton Vanderesh and his health and what
Speaker 1: he anticipates for the twenty twenty season. Yeah, I've heard
Speaker 1: he is very much indeed on schedule to be back
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty. So everything he said in his interview
Speaker 1: on James Slayer's podcast sounds on point. You know, it's
Speaker 1: under I'm under the impression that it's my understanding that
Speaker 1: it took about it's about a four month recovery for
Speaker 1: the surgery that he had on his neck. And so
Speaker 1: if you think about January, he's that's about the point
Speaker 1: you should be at here in mid May. And now
Speaker 1: what that means for the off season, I don't think
Speaker 1: he was ever going to be really active in on
Speaker 1: field stuff during a normal off season program. I think
Speaker 1: they were always pointing towards training camp, and we'll see
Speaker 1: how that schedule turns out. But the signs are pointing
Speaker 1: in the right direction for him for sure. Now, if
Speaker 1: he is healthy and he is going back in heck,
Speaker 1: I'm going to go right to you here. But if
Speaker 1: he is healthy and he is coming back, what kind
Speaker 1: of presence would they be getting back in that defense? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I believe that Layton vander Ess. You asked the question
Speaker 1: earlier about him missing I believe it was seven games
Speaker 1: that he missed last season, and I think that was
Speaker 1: significant to the defense. I mean, his presence was felt
Speaker 1: immediately his rookie year, and so it played a large impact.
Speaker 1: But let's just keep it real, guys. I mean, Lady
Speaker 1: Vanderesh's you know, prior to the injury wasn't typical wolf
Speaker 1: Hunter form, right, there were some things where you could
Speaker 1: look go back and just look at a few games
Speaker 1: where it was like, man, he had offensive you know,
Speaker 1: tackles and guards kind of blocking him to the gatoray buckets.
Speaker 1: Not that drastic, but still, you know, he was he
Speaker 1: was struggling a bit. But now that you know, we
Speaker 1: get this neck taken care of enough, and I wanted
Speaker 1: to believe that it was just you know, nerve damage
Speaker 1: and if you've ever had a stinger, it is horrible,
Speaker 1: but you typically it subsides after a while, and it's
Speaker 1: just something that he tried to play through obviously. But
Speaker 1: when they asked him the question about how he felt
Speaker 1: he felt, he said, I feel wonderful. And so anybody
Speaker 1: that says I feel on the floor, I believe him because, hey,
Speaker 1: you know, ask me how I feel on any given day.
Speaker 1: It's I am good, you know, but wonderful. Yeah, you're
Speaker 1: feeling pretty good. And I look for him to be
Speaker 1: back and make an impact on this defense because, like
Speaker 1: I said, his rookie season, man, he was a difference
Speaker 1: maker out there on the defense. Yeah. Yeah, his his
Speaker 1: presence is a necessity. Um, there's no question about it.
Speaker 1: I mean he's a big kid. I was very skeptical personally,
Speaker 1: I can admit this. Yeah, they drat when they drafted
Speaker 1: him that high. I was very skeptical. Um, then I
Speaker 1: sat back and watched a young young wolf just come
Speaker 1: out there and be a dog. Oh gosh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: You know, at that position, a linebacker, there's some grown
Speaker 1: men coming to block you, right, So you gotta get grow.
Speaker 1: You're gonna get thrown into the gatorade every every now
Speaker 1: and then. And those are the things that really progress
Speaker 1: you and help you to not experience those things again. Right,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get off these blocks. Right, I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: be I'm not gonna be, you know, the dog on
Speaker 1: the Talk of the locker room this week. But I
Speaker 1: mean he's long, right, he's rangy um, he's he's aggressive,
Speaker 1: of he's efficient right with his tackling. I think he
Speaker 1: plays plays amazing with those other two guys in there.
Speaker 1: Um And and I'm hoping, I really really hope that
Speaker 1: somebody who's been through a ton of injuries, I really
Speaker 1: hope that he's able to come back and be that
Speaker 1: same player, because it's more mental than it is physical
Speaker 1: a lot of times, and especially coming off a neck injury.
Speaker 1: And people need to understand at the linebacker position, you
Speaker 1: lead with your you leave with your head right. So instinctively,
Speaker 1: his whole life, he's lead with his head. He's out. Instinctively,
Speaker 1: he's going to have the urge to want to want
Speaker 1: to back off, right, or I want to turn to
Speaker 1: turn my head right now, expose his shoulder right. So
Speaker 1: I really hope that he's really taking that into account
Speaker 1: because even though he might say I feel awesome, right,
Speaker 1: he hasn't hit nobody right. So if the game changes
Speaker 1: when you when you take you know, six four, two
Speaker 1: hundred and you know, forty whatever pounds he is and
Speaker 1: you run that into a three hundred pound man, the
Speaker 1: game changes a little bit. That's such an that's such
Speaker 1: an important point because it is such a high impact
Speaker 1: position and that's why you need linebacker death just because
Speaker 1: guys are in collisions all the time. But yeah, if
Speaker 1: he when he when he's at his best, he's like
Speaker 1: a tone setter on defense some of some of the
Speaker 1: plays he makes. He's such a physical player, and Jalen
Speaker 1: Smith can be that way. They can they can raise
Speaker 1: the level of confidence on defense with a biggest and
Speaker 1: that's what those guys provide when they're at their energy energy. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you have both of those guys Smith, and then you
Speaker 1: also throw in even Sean Lee, Joe Thomas, that whole
Speaker 1: linebacking corps. There's a lot of question marks there. There
Speaker 1: still are, and whenever they're at their best. You can
Speaker 1: say it for pretty much all of those guys. When
Speaker 1: they're at their best, they're difference makers on the defense
Speaker 1: and they always have been. That's what the linebacking position is.
Speaker 1: But with Layton vander Esh, it seems like when he's healthy,
Speaker 1: it makes Jalen Smith a better player. It really does.
Speaker 1: And it's the same thing back and forth of what
Speaker 1: Sean Lee did for so many years in his prime
Speaker 1: with the Cowboys is he made those around him better
Speaker 1: because he was able to do his job at an
Speaker 1: elevated surface from everybody else. Now with Layton Vanderesh and
Speaker 1: Isaiah you brought up the point of you You could
Speaker 1: talk about it as much as you want. You can
Speaker 1: say I'm feeling healthy, I'm feeling great, but it's different
Speaker 1: whenever you get into game action, and especially with a
Speaker 1: neck injury. I don't know how much neck injuries you've
Speaker 1: had to be around throughout your career, but is there
Speaker 1: anything that sticks out to you in terms of people
Speaker 1: not necessarily coming back because of that specific area of
Speaker 1: the body. Man, it's scary. It's as scary as a
Speaker 1: scary area. You know. I've had two foot surgeries, three
Speaker 1: shoulder surgeries, a knee surgery, and uh and achilles surgery.
Speaker 1: I've had everything all around the body, right, but i
Speaker 1: want no parts of that. I's always say I don't
Speaker 1: want knee surgery. To put the neck in number one. Right.
Speaker 1: One of my guy, one of my one of my
Speaker 1: teammates that I respected highly, you know, Ricardo Locket, you know,
Speaker 1: and he you know, he had to shut it down
Speaker 1: right because I'm a neck injury very scary. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: we're talking about guys like Peyton Manning. If Peyton Manning
Speaker 1: didn't play the quarterback position, he would have shut it
Speaker 1: down right, you know. So, I mean you talk about,
Speaker 1: you know, coming back from a neck injury because of
Speaker 1: everything that everything runs through your spine right, everything to
Speaker 1: your spine. Every that's that's grand central station. So if
Speaker 1: you hit somebody wrong, you heard heck talking about a stinger.
Speaker 1: If you guys don't don't know what a stinger is.
Speaker 1: A stingers when you hit somebody in the nerve gets
Speaker 1: pinched right, So you pitch your nerve right and you
Speaker 1: lose all sensation, you lose all functionalality, you lose all
Speaker 1: sensation literally usually in that whole half of your body.
Speaker 1: So and so that it could have been something as
Speaker 1: simple as that, right, Um, but it could be it
Speaker 1: could have been worse. And we don't really know, right,
Speaker 1: They're not gonna ever tell us what really going down.
Speaker 1: But I hope that it was something very simple. But
Speaker 1: even then, you know, those things come back. It's you know,
Speaker 1: it takes one right angle of hitting somebody right with
Speaker 1: the proper amount of force, and you can be shut
Speaker 1: down again. So as we continue to talk about this depth, right,
Speaker 1: we have three guys that have a history of injuries, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we have We have three guys that have history injuries.
Speaker 1: And trust me, I hate putting the injury label on
Speaker 1: somebody because I had right, I had it, and you
Speaker 1: can't control it. However, as a manager, as a general manager,
Speaker 1: you need to prepare for the just in case, Right,
Speaker 1: just in case, these guys have been previous falls to
Speaker 1: previous injuries. Hopefully that doesn't affect their future, but just
Speaker 1: in case it does, I need to make sure that
Speaker 1: we're okay. As an organization in the case that they
Speaker 1: do go down. Yeah, I believe that we are, Isaiah,
Speaker 1: because you know, dealing with the Dallas Cowboys, you get
Speaker 1: the best and so Laden Vanders has the best doctors
Speaker 1: looking at this, you know, the this neck, and so
Speaker 1: if there was any question that he was putting himself
Speaker 1: in danger by coming back to play, I just feel
Speaker 1: that it would be the responsibility of the franchise to say,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, son, you got to shut it down. Uh,
Speaker 1: And he would probably go down as the greatest to
Speaker 1: never be. You know, Laden Vanders is that kind of
Speaker 1: game changer as at the linebacker position. But you also
Speaker 1: talk about the depth cow and you know, and that
Speaker 1: whole and what you said, Isaiah about the injury label
Speaker 1: on this group. You know, I Jalen Smith is the
Speaker 1: one guy to me that I feel this year he's
Speaker 1: gonna he's gonna be more impactful than people know. And
Speaker 1: the reason being is because of Nolan and the way
Speaker 1: that this defense is gonna be geared. It's gonna allow
Speaker 1: him to play freely and play in different areas. If
Speaker 1: you go back and look at the take from last year, guys,
Speaker 1: our linebackers were getting the business from those offensive linemen,
Speaker 1: and it was because our defensive linemen were just smaller
Speaker 1: guys that were having to hurry up and get, you know,
Speaker 1: through that gap and they were not gobbling up blocks.
Speaker 1: You look at what we have now with Poe and
Speaker 1: McCoy and Gallimore. Look, these are guys that are going
Speaker 1: to be like pac Man down there on the line,
Speaker 1: gobbling up those blocks and allowing for Layton, vander esh
Speaker 1: and Jalen Smith to run to the ball. Now. Look,
Speaker 1: you know there's been a lot that's been talked about
Speaker 1: about Jaylen Smith actually changing positions because you know, three
Speaker 1: four four three. But either way, I think that he
Speaker 1: is that guy that could be your Swiss Army knife
Speaker 1: that could you know, line up outside the tank and
Speaker 1: rush the passer or you know, blessing up the middle middle.
Speaker 1: He has that kind of talent. And let me just
Speaker 1: say this guy, Jaylen Smith. For all of the knocks
Speaker 1: against Jaylen Smith, this guy came back from an injury
Speaker 1: that gets you know, that retires people. And it's a
Speaker 1: hard one to come back from drop foot, especially plea
Speaker 1: you talk about a neck injury, have drop foot and
Speaker 1: play linebacker, okay, And he's come back from that. Not
Speaker 1: only has he come back from that, he has come
Speaker 1: back from that and has made Pro Bowls and so
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna jump out the cake when I say this.
Speaker 1: I know it, guys, but to me, there's no way
Speaker 1: that we were supposed to get Jaylen Smith if it
Speaker 1: were not for that Ohio State lineman pushing him in
Speaker 1: the back. All right, we would never have gotten that
Speaker 1: guy in the second round because he would have been
Speaker 1: one of the top fifteen linebacker taking the draft. And
Speaker 1: if you look at who he was at Notre Dame
Speaker 1: prior to that injury, he was the equivalent of Isaiah
Speaker 1: Simmons before Isaiah Simmons, because of his height, because of
Speaker 1: his range. I mean, he's fast enough to play out
Speaker 1: in pass coverage, out in the flat against tight ends,
Speaker 1: running backs, and slot receivers. He has that kind of ability.
Speaker 1: And but just now with the whole changing up the
Speaker 1: guard with a new defense coordinator, I just look for
Speaker 1: Jalen Smith to be that guy to you know, to
Speaker 1: take that learned curve and definitely be somebody that you
Speaker 1: know that definitely has more makes more plays and does
Speaker 1: a much better child this year and this new defense
Speaker 1: versus where he was last year. Now, heck, I want
Speaker 1: to I want to be a little bit of a
Speaker 1: devil's advocate here because earlier in that you talked about
Speaker 1: Jalen Smith and you said two things. He could rush
Speaker 1: the passer, he can blitz up the middle. There's two
Speaker 1: things that he does the same thing in that regard.
Speaker 1: It's run forward. That's his biggest that's his best thing
Speaker 1: is he runs forward. He goes downhill. He's a downhill player.
Speaker 1: He always has been. I don't necessarily think he can
Speaker 1: cover the slot or even some of those faster tight
Speaker 1: ends as well as maybe a number one linebacker should However,
Speaker 1: like you said, you talked about position change and whether
Speaker 1: it's four three to three four. If he's playing downhill
Speaker 1: and Mike Nolan makes him play downhill, I think he's
Speaker 1: going to be successful. You can pair that with the
Speaker 1: defensive tackles. I agree with that point completely. I always
Speaker 1: defensive tackles. You're gonna take a huge load off of
Speaker 1: those shoulders. Yeah, and I was talking about prior to
Speaker 1: the injury, prior to getting injured in college, and so yeah,
Speaker 1: it's changed his game a lot, and he has to
Speaker 1: be a cerebral player. Because he's playing with a debilitation,
Speaker 1: basically knowing that he had dropped foot. And I know
Speaker 1: we've I've talked with Chris Beam about this and just
Speaker 1: his whole comeback, and Chris documented it. He's healed from it,
Speaker 1: but it has to be something that's in the back
Speaker 1: of his mind. Just like you know Isaiah alluded to
Speaker 1: about playing with the neck injury. You know, hey, it's
Speaker 1: all good, he's just hitting the pad, but it's completely
Speaker 1: different when you're running into a three hundred pound man.
Speaker 1: Now watch this, watch this. Heck man, I'm gonna tie
Speaker 1: this right back around in Isaiah, I'm gonna come to
Speaker 1: you first. Here you talk about the psychological side of
Speaker 1: it and how there is a psychological aspect of these injuries. Yes,
Speaker 1: they're physical. Yes, the surgeries are something that is tactical. However,
Speaker 1: in your mind you always have that in the back
Speaker 1: of it. You always know that you've had these injuries,
Speaker 1: you've been tagged at the injury. But what kind of
Speaker 1: impact does that have on a player? And specifically in
Speaker 1: this case Laton Vandersh Isaiah, who I mean, for me,
Speaker 1: it made me a better person? Um, it took me
Speaker 1: a long time to get over my foot injury, right,
Speaker 1: So you got to talk about the drop foot. Right.
Speaker 1: It took me twelve months really to get back from
Speaker 1: my foot injury. Right when I blew my foot out,
Speaker 1: I had had a total list Frank tore everybody out.
Speaker 1: No thanks, Yes, So I got I got drafted with that.
Speaker 1: So when I that's that's what I saw. That's why
Speaker 1: I respect Thank you, Jerry, I appreciation. Uh, but it does.
Speaker 1: It plays a huge part on you. Even once I
Speaker 1: got past that, I sustained multiple shoulder injuries to the
Speaker 1: same shoulder, all right, and it and it changed me.
Speaker 1: I hate that, I have to admit that. But it
Speaker 1: did change how aggressive I was. It changed the things
Speaker 1: that I would typically do prior to those injuries because
Speaker 1: I was always conscious of it. I didn't want to
Speaker 1: expose it, right, I didn't want to make myself vulnerable
Speaker 1: to potentially reinjuring it again. So it does, you know,
Speaker 1: and again we don't know how how serious of an injury.
Speaker 1: You know, you know, Vanderdesh's neck was, but hopefully it's
Speaker 1: something that he could just write off once he comes out.
Speaker 1: Once training camp gets kicked off and he goes out there,
Speaker 1: it hits his first dude, and boom, I don't feel nothing. Okay,
Speaker 1: he's confident again. Um, and I hope it's just as
Speaker 1: simple as that. But if you've ever reinjured something, and
Speaker 1: trust me, it plays, it plays with your mind. Um,
Speaker 1: it definitely plays with your mind. But you know, and
Speaker 1: one of the things I wanted to touch on was,
Speaker 1: you know, you made a great point, heck about what
Speaker 1: we've done here in the off season in terms of
Speaker 1: our fronts, our front seven. You guys can always hear
Speaker 1: me talking about how important of a role it is
Speaker 1: for Paul McCoy and all those guys that we've acquired
Speaker 1: and what they're going to allow our second level to do,
Speaker 1: and for people out there that are listening, If you
Speaker 1: guys don't understand how important that is, these guys when
Speaker 1: you're talking about those guys gobbling up office alignment, these
Speaker 1: guys are in the office alignment are not going to
Speaker 1: be allowed right because they're not gonna be freed up
Speaker 1: to work up and have to and and force our
Speaker 1: linebackers to take them on, right, so we don't have
Speaker 1: to worry about Jayala Smith and Sean Lee and Vander
Speaker 1: has taken as much punishment as they did last year,
Speaker 1: because these guys are gonna be gobbled up, so they
Speaker 1: are gonna be able to roam free. And to Rob's point,
Speaker 1: in terms of coverage, Rob, let's keep it real. There
Speaker 1: are these these tight ends that are playing nowadays. No
Speaker 1: linebackers can cover them, right, you know they can't, right,
Speaker 1: So you're gonna rely heavily on your safeties, right, And
Speaker 1: I think we're gonna be a too high safety heavy
Speaker 1: team anyways, because of our because of what our front
Speaker 1: set was gonna allow for us to play. So it
Speaker 1: was really gonna be on you know, on our on
Speaker 1: our guys in the secondary and you know, Cheeto and
Speaker 1: Haha and those guys like that to be able to
Speaker 1: come down and play man to man. Yeah, play more
Speaker 1: nickel dime in those situations. And but when they they
Speaker 1: have struggled on defense the last couple of years, it's
Speaker 1: been stopping the run. To you guys point, I mean
Speaker 1: you go back to like the twenty eighteen game when
Speaker 1: they went up to India and just got smacked. You know,
Speaker 1: they their linemen were on the second level so quickly,
Speaker 1: and that's that's I think that's what you guys are
Speaker 1: talking about. Um as far as Vanderesh, just one more
Speaker 1: point on that. I will say to Heck's point, he's
Speaker 1: in really good hands with the athletic training staff doctors here,
Speaker 1: and I think I think he's a guy he really
Speaker 1: wanted to keep playing last year and I think he
Speaker 1: loves football so much. I think that that will help
Speaker 1: with the psychological part of it, just being able to
Speaker 1: get back. And there are guys, and I won't say
Speaker 1: this is the exact same injury, but there have been
Speaker 1: guys in Team Mystery that have come back from next surgery.
Speaker 1: Daryl Johnson guys like that, So there are there's a
Speaker 1: history and a familiarity with the organization in doing it.
Speaker 1: So obviously that's the hope. And I think the Cowboys
Speaker 1: feel good about it. They definitely need him back, there's
Speaker 1: no question about that. Hey, shout out to our training
Speaker 1: staff with the Cowboys. I probably know way too much
Speaker 1: about those guys, Jim and Ritt Brown and U doctor
Speaker 1: Cooper and those guys. I can tell you guys haven't
Speaker 1: been through some of the greatest organizations in this league.
Speaker 1: That that group right there is second to none as
Speaker 1: second tone. So for all you guys that may have
Speaker 1: question marks. Okay, so did they make the right decision?
Speaker 1: Those guys right there on top of their game. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's huge. It's huge to be able to have
Speaker 1: that at your disposal. But you've also got to come
Speaker 1: back and execute and be on time and things like
Speaker 1: that of being with these timelines whenever it comes to
Speaker 1: this injuries and hopefully Layton Vanders is back. I went
Speaker 1: back yesterday. I'm going to go through all sixteen games
Speaker 1: again from twenty nineteen and I went back through Week
Speaker 1: one yesterday, and man, when all those linebackers are firing
Speaker 1: on all cylinders, it is fun to watch. And they
Speaker 1: did so against the Giants last year, and I thought
Speaker 1: it was just it made me kind of sad because
Speaker 1: it was one of those Wow, this is a lot
Speaker 1: of fun to watch. But man, you knew what was
Speaker 1: coming with the injuries and some of the question marks
Speaker 1: later on down the line. Now, when we come back,
Speaker 1: we're gonna do some more talking x's and oh's. I've
Speaker 1: got two really big questions that I want to answered
Speaker 1: about this upcoming season and different roles that are going
Speaker 1: to be played on the offensive side of the football.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that next. When we were return here
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Speaker 1: is a rich, delicious doctor Pepper paradise. Wait, did did
Speaker 1: that can of doctor Pepper just open itself for you?
Speaker 1: They all are as if to say, so nice to
Speaker 1: treat you. And even though it feels weird to talk
Speaker 1: to we, can you pick one up and say, it's
Speaker 1: so nice to be treated doctor Pepper, so nice to
Speaker 1: treat you? To talk in Cowboys, One last segment here
Speaker 1: of talking cowboys here on Dallas Cowboys dot com. So
Speaker 1: glad you're with us. Kyle Yomen's Rob Phillips, heck my
Speaker 1: Harrison the Great Isaiah stand back and It's time now
Speaker 1: to talk some x's and ohs, and we did this
Speaker 1: last week our first installment of a new segment, and
Speaker 1: then specifically around what's happening on the football field and
Speaker 1: take away all the offseason Garb that's around this Cowboys
Speaker 1: team and the storylines that have been around. We'll talk
Speaker 1: about that plitty in the first two segments. Guys, we
Speaker 1: want to talk about football here. That's what this is about.
Speaker 1: This is what this is about the gridiron. And first
Speaker 1: question is what will Zeke's role be? Now? Last week
Speaker 1: we talked about Tony Pollard and what his potential role
Speaker 1: could be as a wide receiver more so than a
Speaker 1: running back. We talked about that in extent, but I
Speaker 1: want to talk about Ezekiel Elliott because of kind of
Speaker 1: the added talent around the passing game Ceedee Lamb of
Speaker 1: course out of the draft, and you've got Blake Jarwin,
Speaker 1: who's seemingly tight end one that should add some extra
Speaker 1: targets from Dak Prescott then he even got last year.
Speaker 1: But how are you going to find a way to
Speaker 1: get Ezekiel Elliot at the ball? WHEREBB will start with you, Well,
Speaker 1: I think with the weapons they've added in the passing game.
Speaker 1: As you said, I think they have the makings of
Speaker 1: a true pick your poison offense where they can literally
Speaker 1: take what the defense gives him. There's that much talent
Speaker 1: at the skilled positions. But I do not worry about
Speaker 1: Zeke having a big role on this team. And really
Speaker 1: the only thing I've got to do is go back
Speaker 1: to early in Mike McCarthy's career pre Packers. Okay, I
Speaker 1: know he was the head coach there for a long time,
Speaker 1: and I know he was part of what you could
Speaker 1: say was a pass happy offense with Aaron Rodgers. Now
Speaker 1: that makes sense logically with Aaron Rodgers. Yeah, he was
Speaker 1: in New Orleans in early two thousands as the Saints
Speaker 1: offensive coordinator Ricky Williams. They remember the coup the Saints
Speaker 1: trade in their entire draft to get Ricky Williams. That
Speaker 1: would probably ever happened again. But there were a couple
Speaker 1: of seasons in there where Ricky Williams had like three
Speaker 1: hundred plus carries, yes, and was was the offense for them,
Speaker 1: And I think that shows Mike McCarthy is willing to
Speaker 1: use what he has from a personnel standpoint, and for
Speaker 1: that reason, I fully expect Zeke to be, you know,
Speaker 1: have a big role as usual on his offense. He
Speaker 1: go ahead, I Saiah, oh you know, throw it to
Speaker 1: go throw the hackm over. I got it. I got it,
Speaker 1: all right. So so I mean, guys, I mean you
Speaker 1: ask that question, and I'm like everybody else. I've been
Speaker 1: board in the house and in the house board. So
Speaker 1: I've been on NFL game pass watching old you know
Speaker 1: I have, you know I have, and it's just crazy,
Speaker 1: you know, watching Ezekiel Elliott and man, he's just just
Speaker 1: a generational running back and you know this, what his
Speaker 1: role is going to be in this offense is a dog.
Speaker 1: You know, He's he's going to be the pace set
Speaker 1: for for us. And what this offense does. You saw
Speaker 1: last year where teams were still willing to play with
Speaker 1: extra dvs even when the Cowboys came out and run personnel.
Speaker 1: We have got to punish teams for doing that. And
Speaker 1: so with the whole pick your poison mantra that we
Speaker 1: have going here in Dallas now with Ceedee Lamb, that's
Speaker 1: the one thing that I believe that if teams play
Speaker 1: us like that, we have got to give them a
Speaker 1: healthy dose of Ezekiel Eli. And you look at those
Speaker 1: games that you look at the season and like say,
Speaker 1: for instance, games like against Baltimore. All right, we're in
Speaker 1: Baltimore in December. We don't know what that's gonna be
Speaker 1: like as far as the weather, as far as the conditions.
Speaker 1: But I see Ezekieli getting thirty carries in that game.
Speaker 1: That's the Ezekieli game. Because what that does is it
Speaker 1: keeps Lamar Jackson sipping gatorade. You know. So those are
Speaker 1: the kind of things that I believe that Mike McCarthy is.
Speaker 1: He's going to be a difference maker in that. And
Speaker 1: just going over all those you know, old games for
Speaker 1: for the Dallas Cowboys, he was to play calling. It
Speaker 1: was getting Ezekiel Elliott and rhythm. We ran a lot
Speaker 1: on first downs, but then after that, you know, because
Speaker 1: we were behind them the stakes, we'd have to throw
Speaker 1: the ball to get a first down. And so I
Speaker 1: just look for that, you know, I look for Zeke
Speaker 1: to be a big part of what we're doing this year. Yeah, hey,
Speaker 1: gan Ud like, freaky Zeki's gonna be freaky Zeki. Right,
Speaker 1: there's no there's no change here. He just added more weapons, right,
Speaker 1: it doesn't even matter if they take the ball out
Speaker 1: of his hands a little bit more, he's still gonna
Speaker 1: get the same production. He just he's that dude. We
Speaker 1: know he's that dude. I think that more than anything,
Speaker 1: he needs to be able to provide that consistency, and
Speaker 1: he needs to be able to provide the energy. I
Speaker 1: really don't see anybody else really providing energy on the
Speaker 1: offensive side of the ball, and momentum such an intricate
Speaker 1: part of this game. You're gonna be able to get
Speaker 1: those seven yards, there's two of yard runs, and he
Speaker 1: needs to be able to get up and do this
Speaker 1: right because everybody feeds off that right. There's there's nobody
Speaker 1: Cooper ain't gonna do it right. And so Cooper gonna
Speaker 1: have a hundred yard run, he's still gonna be right.
Speaker 1: So you mean you need somebody with that energy for
Speaker 1: everybody to feed off of. And actually we're going out
Speaker 1: managing everything. You need Ze just to be consistent. When
Speaker 1: we give him a ball, we know we're gonna get
Speaker 1: positive yardage and he's gonna be gonna be that energy
Speaker 1: bus for everything else that we're doing on offense. Do
Speaker 1: you think the energy could come from him in the
Speaker 1: receiving game as well, because last year, I mean he
Speaker 1: had fifty four receptions sixty eight targets, both of which
Speaker 1: were some of the tops of his career. But do
Speaker 1: you think he could bring that energy in the receiving
Speaker 1: game as well out of the backfield or is it
Speaker 1: strictly pound the rock, be the belt call and eat
Speaker 1: up some yards. When you can more screens, more scores, screens,
Speaker 1: more screens to Zee, good things happen when Zeke gets
Speaker 1: the ball on the screen game. Rob is adamant about that.
Speaker 1: Let's go more screens to Zee. I mean, damn, every
Speaker 1: time he gets one, it's still it's like a seventy
Speaker 1: yard touchdown to seem you know, but against the Lions maybe, yeah, true, true,
Speaker 1: I mean quietly, I think he had a season where
Speaker 1: he had seventy five seventy six catches. He has that
Speaker 1: in his his arsenal for sure. Yeah, that's you say it. Man.
Speaker 1: Those screenplays when and especially with the kind of speed
Speaker 1: that we have on the outside, running everybody off and
Speaker 1: then just sneaking Zeke underneath is something that you see
Speaker 1: the Cowboys doing it. And again that's just something he
Speaker 1: has in his arsenal. He's a great receiver out of
Speaker 1: the backfield, so we have to use every talent, everything
Speaker 1: that he has. Yeah, there's not gonna be any shortage.
Speaker 1: He doesn't matter how he gets the ball. It doesn't
Speaker 1: matter how anybody the vocus gets the ball. You know,
Speaker 1: like you guys talking about we we have the jack
Speaker 1: of all chase to the Swiss army knife as we
Speaker 1: refer to of offenses. So it doesn't matter how they
Speaker 1: you know, they decided on getting everybody in the rock
Speaker 1: as long as people are getting positive yardage and you know,
Speaker 1: and we're rolling this thing and we're able to strike
Speaker 1: fast when needed, we're able to withstand drives when needed,
Speaker 1: depending on who who our opponent is. Um, we I
Speaker 1: think we have everything we need to really control that,
Speaker 1: right m If we're playing, if we're playing in Baltimore
Speaker 1: and Lamar and those guys are gonna be striking. Fact,
Speaker 1: guess what we need to be able to hit him
Speaker 1: when we need to hit him, if we if we
Speaker 1: need to keep somebody like that off the field, and
Speaker 1: guess what, y receivers, block your butts off and let's
Speaker 1: hand this thing off, right so we can do whatever
Speaker 1: we want to do. I'm interested to see what we
Speaker 1: don't do right more so than what we are going
Speaker 1: to do, because there's because you have so many options.
Speaker 1: You do have a ton of options, and that's kind
Speaker 1: of the fun part about it, and that's what makes
Speaker 1: people so excited about this offense. Moving forward. Now, I
Speaker 1: want to put you guys in Kellen Moore's shoes, which
Speaker 1: at this point looks like it's a fun place to
Speaker 1: be because you've got a new coaching staff around you
Speaker 1: and you've got a bunch of new talents. But I
Speaker 1: want to talk about the receiving position. And you could argue,
Speaker 1: because of how talented this receiving corps is, you don't
Speaker 1: necessarily even need Ezekiel Elliott to bring the energy in
Speaker 1: the passing game because you have enough energy in what
Speaker 1: Dak Prescott in these receivers and even Lake jarwinet tied
Speaker 1: End could bring to the table. But I want to ask,
Speaker 1: who would you put in the slot? And the question is,
Speaker 1: because whenever Cede Lamb was drafted, it was almost automatic.
Speaker 1: Let's throw CD Lamb into the slot. But I I
Speaker 1: want to play Devil's advocate with that point a little bit,
Speaker 1: just based off of the fact that college, or at
Speaker 1: least in twenty nineteen, Cede Lamb had twenty five slot receptions,
Speaker 1: which is tied for one hundred and fortieth in the
Speaker 1: draft class. Then you turn around and you have slot yards.
Speaker 1: He was successful in the slot six hundred plus yards
Speaker 1: as a slot receiver, which was forty six. So you
Speaker 1: still have a kind of a at least a disconnect
Speaker 1: in that regard of CD Lamb being in the slot.
Speaker 1: But who would you put in the slot? And heckmo
Speaker 1: we'll start with you, man, Michael Gallup is open right now.
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, man, this is let's keep it real
Speaker 1: to me. Man. If I'm if I'm playing Kelly Moore,
Speaker 1: I come into this room of a talented group of
Speaker 1: wide receivers and I know that these guys are all
Speaker 1: chumping at the bit to contribute. You. You draft Cede
Speaker 1: Lamb and you know he's a number one receiver, So
Speaker 1: in essence, you have two number one receivers in Lamb
Speaker 1: and Cooper, and you have to treat him as such.
Speaker 1: If I'm Michael Gallup, I don't care where you put me.
Speaker 1: You put me in the slot, I'm gonna man handle
Speaker 1: a strong safety. There's no way, and if you look
Speaker 1: at our team right now, you would be it would
Speaker 1: be the equivalent of having Xavier Woods on Michael Gallup
Speaker 1: in the slot. I think that's advantaged Michael Gallop and
Speaker 1: you know, shout out to Xavier Woods. But I'm just saying,
Speaker 1: you know, you talk about the talent level of a
Speaker 1: Michael Gallup, it doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter. But
Speaker 1: at the same time, I believe that it's going to
Speaker 1: be the translation that we're gonna have form from Mike
Speaker 1: McCarthy to this offense and getting these guys in rhythm.
Speaker 1: It's what's gonna be important. But man, that's that's a
Speaker 1: tough question. But I really feel like it doesn't matter
Speaker 1: which guy goes to the slot. But if I'm Michael Gallup,
Speaker 1: I want to go to the be the slot receiver. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It reminds me of my time when I was underneath
Speaker 1: Billy O'Brien and you know, I was out there with myself,
Speaker 1: Joey Galloway, West, Wealcare, Randy Moss. It really didn't matter
Speaker 1: who was were, and you had to learn everything right
Speaker 1: and that that freedom as a for an offensive coordinator
Speaker 1: is absolutely everything because now everything's on the table. I
Speaker 1: can call whatever formation I want to. I can mess
Speaker 1: around with with with defenses. I could run some motions.
Speaker 1: I could run motions to put guys and positions that
Speaker 1: they weren't necessarily in when we lined up, UM to
Speaker 1: create different matchups. So there's all kinds of different things
Speaker 1: that you could do to trick around and mess around
Speaker 1: with your defense. But um, in terms of just the
Speaker 1: stakehol if we're going three wide, receiver said, I I
Speaker 1: agree with my guy ahead. I think that you put
Speaker 1: CD on the outside where he's comfortable, where he's comfortable
Speaker 1: UM coming into this league, and you allow Gallop with
Speaker 1: his speed if Hopelly, I'm mentioned to see how shifty
Speaker 1: is in terms of lattermomillion. You know, we get off
Speaker 1: the ball from it inside the slot, but at which
Speaker 1: one of those. That's one thing that you want from
Speaker 1: a slot, somebod who's shifting, who can get get open immediately.
Speaker 1: And then you also want somebody who can get on
Speaker 1: the safety's tolls as fast as possible. And I think
Speaker 1: that's what that's what gallup really presents. From that position,
Speaker 1: and like and like we already attested to, you're gonna
Speaker 1: be facing either their third best corner right, you're gonna
Speaker 1: be facing their safety. So his ability to just blaze
Speaker 1: on why anybody can get on the toes of the safety,
Speaker 1: especially as a single high safety right is going to
Speaker 1: cause some problems because those outside guys cool and UH
Speaker 1: and CD will be able to eat all day long. Man,
Speaker 1: you guys really hit on it. I mean, Mike McCarthy
Speaker 1: one reason why he loved this pick so much was
Speaker 1: it adds to a stable receivers that he thinks can
Speaker 1: play every position, play inside out, that's what that's what
Speaker 1: he does, is what he did with his receivers in
Speaker 1: Green Bay. And so yeah, I think I think you're
Speaker 1: gonna see all of him kind of move around. I
Speaker 1: like cd skill set for the slot personally, but you
Speaker 1: guys are write about Gallup and and Amari Cooper is
Speaker 1: a guy that can go inside and be effected playing
Speaker 1: the slot. He's done it here and it also is
Speaker 1: a way to get him away from double coverage at
Speaker 1: times too. So I think you're gonna see Amri in
Speaker 1: there at I think you see may see all of
Speaker 1: him move around, because that's what McCarthy likes to do.
Speaker 1: Seeing I was a little surprised that you didn't say
Speaker 1: Cooper and go ahead, heckma, no, I think what Rob's
Speaker 1: what the point that Rob makes about Coverage being rolled
Speaker 1: to Almara Cooper and actually putting him in the slot,
Speaker 1: that's a ton of offenses do that with their you
Speaker 1: know number one guy, put him in the slot, move
Speaker 1: them around. That was one of the arguments about Davis
Speaker 1: Bryant back in the day is it's getting him from
Speaker 1: the outside and moving him around in this offense to
Speaker 1: give him more exposure in the offense. And so again,
Speaker 1: I you know just what Rob was saying. I think
Speaker 1: that is the biggest point is that you take your
Speaker 1: lead dog and you look at any advantages that you
Speaker 1: have against defenses, and you put him in there. All
Speaker 1: three of these guys are gonna be interchangeable. And do
Speaker 1: you see a lot of motion and you see a
Speaker 1: lot of trickery and things like that. Isaiah, I know
Speaker 1: you mentioned it just switching things around and opening up
Speaker 1: the playbook. I think the playbooks as opens as it
Speaker 1: ever has been for a guy like Kellen Moore to
Speaker 1: kind of do some of those gimmicky things before pre
Speaker 1: snap that can set you yourself up for success. Yeah. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: And I was a saying too. You know when I
Speaker 1: was with Billy Oh, and we had all those receivers, right,
Speaker 1: we had a ridiculous amount of receivers, right, everybody. As
Speaker 1: long as everybody's smart enough to learn all the formations
Speaker 1: and smart enough to learn all the different personnel groupings.
Speaker 1: You give that officer a coordinator pretty much a blank sheet,
Speaker 1: and he can do whateverything he wants to, and you can.
Speaker 1: You can you can line up in those just basic formations,
Speaker 1: or guess what I can line up with? You know,
Speaker 1: CD outside and I guess, okay, we're coming on CDs outside,
Speaker 1: you know, coops on the outside and gallops in the slot.
Speaker 1: All of a sudden, I motioned CD down and we're
Speaker 1: doing a switch release, and all of a sudden, gallops
Speaker 1: going outside and CD's working in on the inside of
Speaker 1: the linebacker. So you could do whatever the heck you
Speaker 1: want to, and motion is going to be a huge
Speaker 1: part of it, not only just because of declaration of coverages,
Speaker 1: but also for the standpoint of just matchups you can create.
Speaker 1: If you have a smart offers, a coordinator, you have
Speaker 1: VERSUSIL players, you can create the matchups that you want
Speaker 1: and when you're able to do that, you can't be stopped.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be interesting because, like the point is is,
Speaker 1: you could throw Cooper in the slot, you could throw
Speaker 1: Gallop in the slot, you could throw CD Lamb in
Speaker 1: the slot, and all three should be successful enough to
Speaker 1: be able to to have some some impact. By some impact,
Speaker 1: I mean quite a bit of impact for Dak Prescott
Speaker 1: and what he's able to do come this season. And
Speaker 1: we're running out of time here, guys, but just real
Speaker 1: quickly looking ahead a little bit now. The next week
Speaker 1: on Talking Cowboys, we're gonna talk about the right defensive
Speaker 1: end spot, and there's gonna be a couple of those
Speaker 1: names thrown in there, like an Alden Smith, like a
Speaker 1: Randy Gregory, two guys that are looking to be reinstated.
Speaker 1: But you're also going to look at that Bradley and
Speaker 1: I pick from the twenty twenty draft class and what
Speaker 1: that actually means for that right defensive end spot is
Speaker 1: just real fast, rapid fire. Before we close things out,
Speaker 1: is this defense better this year than last year? On paper?
Speaker 1: Yes or no? Before we get into next week's conversation
Speaker 1: and debate, absolutely, wow, you think so? Yeah? What you say,
Speaker 1: Rob if those guys are reinstated, I say yes, and
Speaker 1: obviously they're optimistic about that. You still got to sort
Speaker 1: out the cornerback spot. Man. We tried to rank all
Speaker 1: those guys last week on the website. Who'd you have it? One? Rob?
Speaker 1: Who'd you have it one? Rob? We had? We had
Speaker 1: Jordan Lewis one. Actually, Wow, Jordan Lewis at one now,
Speaker 1: which is which is a little strange, right because he's
Speaker 1: not Wow, He's not six five playing quarterball. But they've
Speaker 1: got to sort that part out. But I think the
Speaker 1: front seven, yes, they got they got a chance to
Speaker 1: be better and make the defense better that way. I
Speaker 1: agree with you, guys. We're gonna talk about that cornerback
Speaker 1: spot and the ranks that did come out in terms
Speaker 1: of that position next week as well. So there's gonna
Speaker 1: be a lot of defensive talk next week, while we
Speaker 1: talked a lot of offense this week. But that is
Speaker 1: gonna do it here for talking cowboys here on this
Speaker 1: Tuesday morning. Glad you've been with us throughout the entirety
Speaker 1: of the last hour. But for Heck Harrison, for Isaiah Standback,
Speaker 1: and for the great Rob Phillips. I'm Kyle Yeoman saying
Speaker 1: so long, We'll see you next week here on Talking Cowboys.
Speaker 1: This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com
Speaker 1: and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.