WEBVTT - Nathaniel Rateliff 0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:14.480 Pushkin. Nathaniel Ratelift was set up at NYC's Town Hall 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:17.360 this past Thursday, ready to play another stop on a 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:21.400 solo tour. When that show, like many right Now, was canceled. 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:24.599 Instead of packing it in and heading back to the hotel, 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:29.160 Nathaniel played to an empty theater, streaming the show on Facebook. 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:32.960 Making do was a central thesis of his new release, 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:36.839 And It's still all right. Nathaniel has good reason to 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:40.240 be optimistic too, despite some setbacks. He's been on a 0:00:40.360 --> 0:00:43.479 role the last few years with his band The Night Sweats. 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:47.080 He's been a standout at nearly every festival, created his 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:49.920 own line of cannabis with Willie Nelson called The Nights Dash, 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:53.640 and this summer, if all's normal again, he's supposed to 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:57.480 be torn with Bob Dylan. His new album is a 0:00:57.480 --> 0:01:00.200 real departure from what he's become known for, though, his 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:03.360 first release without his band The Night Sweats in seven years, 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:06.160 and it sounds much closer to the music he started 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:10.480 making more than twenty years ago, more introspective and folky, 0:01:10.640 --> 0:01:13.360 and this chat with Bruce Hedlum. Nathaniel traces his musical 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:16.160 lineage from his parents, who only allowed Christian music at 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:18.959 home to his work with Night Sweats producer and brilliant 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:23.760 musician Richard Swift. Swift died from complications of alcoholism in 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:26.880 twenty eighteen, and a lot of Nathaniel's new songs are 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:30.160 dedicated to him. These songs are his way of making 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:32.880 sense of his friend's death, of letting himself and his 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:37.080 audience know that despite the sadness, it's still all right. 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:44.160 This is broken record liner notes for the Digital Age. 0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:52.480 I'm justin Richmond. There's Bruce and Nathaniel Raateliff from GSI 0:01:52.600 --> 0:01:55.800 Studios in New York. He starts by playing the album's 0:01:55.840 --> 0:02:01.040 title track, I was lovely, Thank you. I think every 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:03.120 guitarist you just have to watch your right hand. You've 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:06.200 got such a Where did you learn to fingerpick? I 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:11.680 mean I've done. It's a weird almost like clawhammer style, UM, 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:14.360 which I think I just kind of when I was younger, 0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:15.960 I used to do a lot of like sort of 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:22.760 Almond Brothers kind of. Yeah, I'd switch in between UM 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:25.520 using a pick and then like doing double stops. So 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:28.600 I'd just like fold my pick in between my pointer 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:31.920 and my middle finger. And then at some point that 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:38.400 started to turn into that thing. And then yeah, so 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:42.880 but you've got i mean your bass notes, it's like 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:45.400 a like a train, but you've got the strum and 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:48.120 you're you're picking after the strum. It's really it's doing 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:49.919 a lot of work there. Thanks. You know. The other 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:52.519 thing is I can't really Travis pick, which is essentially 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:59.520 the same. Yeah, you can't. I can like fake it, 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:02.840 but not in the same Yeah. I watched other people 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:04.560 doing I'm like, damn it, why haven't I figured that 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:10.280 out yet? But h well, I was fabulous. There's just 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:12.239 so much going on in that song. So tell me 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:16.480 about the song you just played for us. Um, Well, 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:19.000 that's the title track the record was going to have 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:22.000 you know that, that's the third title. Originally I was 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:23.960 going to name it Russian, but I thought that that 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:28.920 was a little too heavy and being the title track, um, 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:32.680 the listeners would be drawn to listen to that first. 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:35.160 And then I was going to name it all or 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:39.160 Nothing because I was so excited about accomplishing writing that 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:42.200 song because it was a little the structure of it, 0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:44.960 it was a lot more It's a little more in 0:03:45.000 --> 0:03:50.720 depth than I'm used to like digging into um. But 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:53.480 then I was talking with a friend and like, you know, 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:56.880 I I'm surprised you didn't name this record. And it's 0:03:56.920 --> 0:04:00.160 still all right because it kind of sums up up 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:02.480 the whole record, you know it kind of you're talking 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:07.040 about loss and in heartache and but then trying to 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:11.680 find joy, you know, like and so that's yeah, you know, 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:16.720 I talk a lot about It's like a conversation with 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:20.760 myself and then also with other people throughout the song, 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:24.400 depending on which line it is, you know, so people listening, 0:04:24.480 --> 0:04:25.960 a lot of them are going to know you from 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:33.000 New York with Night Sweats, right, big brassy, soulful songs 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:37.000 like SOB and You Worry Me. But this is really 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:39.000 kind of returning to what you started doing before the 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:43.760 Night Sweats. Yeah, I had probably ten maybe seven years, 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:48.560 seven years for sure of like you know, just slumming it, 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:51.560 you know, living living out of the van and trying 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:53.520 to have a band with me. And I still you know, 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:55.039 a lot of the guys in the Night Sweats and 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:58.479 this new project are from people who play with me 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:01.000 from back in those days as well. And you started 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:04.719 now your family they were gospel singers, your mother and father. Yeah, 0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:07.440 my mom played in church and my dad too, So 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:10.320 It was kind of like a family band, did you 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:12.440 did you siblings that played in it as well. My 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:16.400 sister Heather was two years older than me. She played 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:18.840 piano and sang and then you know, sometimes it would 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:22.000 just be like my mom and dad and then they 0:05:22.000 --> 0:05:24.039 would make me and my sisters sing, so we'd have 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:26.720 this like four part harmony. But it was certainly that 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:30.440 era of like, um, my mom and dad kind of 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:32.880 came out of that like Jesus movement of the seventies 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:37.400 and sixties, so more along the lines of like singer songwriter, 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:41.280 folky kind of stuff. My mom played twelve string because 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:43.760 I think some people are like, when you think of gospel, 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:45.960 you think of like the Staple Singers, or even like 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:49.520 the oak Ridge Boys or something. Yeah, yeah, Or I 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:51.640 just feel like some people think that it's like the 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:55.200 scene from you know, the Blues Brothers where James Brown 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:58.360 as a pastor, you know, and it's like, especially when 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:00.479 they think of the Night Sweats. I was like, I was, like, 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:02.360 I listened to all that on my own. My mom 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:07.120 did something totally different. But it was a good upbringing musically, 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:11.000 you know, at least had a great home for and 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:15.120 lots of encouragement to to to play and to listen 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:18.120 to music, you know, like my dad Mom were always 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:21.240 excited to like introduce something new to me, so really 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:24.560 secular music as well. Not at first, but after my 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:26.719 dad passed away, my mom sort of lightened up on 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:32.520 the secular music. And then my dad, you know, unbeknownst 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:34.880 to me, I had this like collection of secular music 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:38.200 in the closet of all his old records, and so 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:41.280 I was able to like kind of go through that, 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:43.760 and after he passed away, it also felt made me 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:45.720 feel like I had some sort of connection to him 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:49.719 through those records. So so before he passed you found 0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:52.200 the records or did you find them afterwards? After he 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:54.279 started to lighten up a little bit too, before he 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:59.440 passed away, you know, because they they had some pretty 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:02.599 they were very young when they joined the church and 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:04.920 had a lot of traumatic stuff happened in their lives 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:07.640 that led them into that, and so as they started 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:09.640 to get into their thirties, they started lightening up a 0:07:09.640 --> 0:07:13.040 little bit. You know, do you remember the first record 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:19.760 you found? Um? Yeah, I remember finding like Muddy Waters 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:24.800 Folk Singer and Muddy Water Sings Big Bill Brunzi, and 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:28.000 then like some of the other stuff. It was like 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:33.600 there's some moody blues in there, you know, some unexpected stuff, 0:07:33.600 --> 0:07:35.640 because that was that era of music they listened to. 0:07:35.760 --> 0:07:38.120 But also my dad just started to be a little 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:41.080 more comfortable about listening to the radio. And I remember 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:43.720 like Bob Dylan coming on and just like having my 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:47.320 mind blown or hearing Imagine for the first time and 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:49.880 wondering why, Like, you know, I asked my parents. I 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:53.200 was like, well, if you know, if God created music, 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:56.560 how come our songs and church aren't better than this 0:07:56.680 --> 0:08:00.400 song with John Lennon wrote, you know, like, Okay, that 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:03.640 is blasphemous now. Yeah, well, and you know, there was 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:06.840 that whole idea. There was a humanist song. Humanistic song. 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:10.520 I was like, but we're humans. That doesn't make any sense. Yeah, 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:13.840 the new Heaven line, it's gotta be that's gotta be 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:16.480 a little trouble in that. Yeah, right, yeah, you know 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:18.240 you have to do that. I'm sorry. What was your 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:21.560 father's name. Everybody called him Bud, but his real name 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:24.840 was Cecil Clement. Oh that's a great name. I hated it, 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:27.120 but I think it was great. Okay, Yeah, you've got 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:31.440 to put the Cecil Clement right list list on Spotify, 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:33.240 all the records you found? Oh yeah, I mean he 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:36.040 was a huge Van Morrison Van two so okay, which 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:39.720 is like the early Van you know, like I think 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:43.040 you know, that really changed me a lot because I 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:45.720 my mom listened to it a lot as well, so 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:47.480 you know, there's a lot of Moon Dance, and then 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:49.520 on my own I found like astral Weeks and the 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:53.440 Bang Sessions and you know, okay, there's a lot of 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:56.760 great stuff there. So after he died, did she change 0:08:56.800 --> 0:08:58.720 what she listened to? Yeah, she kind of like she 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:02.560 joined like a CD like I don't know which which 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:04.319 one of those companies it was, but like got a 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:08.880 bunch of stuff like Almon Brothers and the Band I 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:11.680 stole her like the Best of the Band CD, which 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:14.760 was like my introduction. You know, I always thoughts it, 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:16.440 you know, like when you go to a record store 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:18.240 and people are like, oh, the best of but like 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:20.800 the best of Bob Dylan and the Band. Like that 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:23.080 was like kind of my introduction to that stuff, and 0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:27.199 like it sparked my curiosity and then I like became 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:30.880 a record collector and like I started, you know, thumbing 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:33.680 through everything I could get my hands on and you know, 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:36.160 and was lucky enough to like find people who had 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:39.880 like original bootlegs of the basement tapes and that stuff 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:42.360 really like just kind of changed my life. And those 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:44.640 are records that are huge parts of my life. Now, yeah, 0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:52.079 do you remember do you remember a gospel songs you sang? Oh? Yeah, 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:54.880 I mean it's like a it's like a bad radio 0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:57.080 station in my head really, so okay, well, what are 0:09:57.080 --> 0:10:00.120 they just just a title or two? So has the 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:02.240 Deer is one of the I think is one of 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:07.679 the names. M Lord. I left her name on high 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:11.240 I mean all sorts of stuffy and my mom Actually 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:14.079 she wrote her own songs too, so yeah, yeah, and 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:18.640 like her own religious songs and still does. And I 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:20.360 guess that's one of those things I'd always loved to 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:23.480 do for someday. She's always wanted to make a record. 0:10:23.600 --> 0:10:26.120 So do you ever have you ever played one of 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:30.200 her songs on stage? I haven't. No, it's for me. 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:32.760 It's like, you know, I feel so far removed from 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:36.680 the religious side of things that I don't want to 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:41.920 encourage anyone to move that way. With the power of 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:46.160 your voice, you will, yeah, exactly converted millions of people. 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:48.679 That's the conversion is the problem I had. I think 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:51.440 that's why I kind of moved away from it because 0:10:51.480 --> 0:10:55.000 I was doing some work with the Hopie Native Americans 0:10:55.040 --> 0:10:58.080 and I was there on an Easter Sunday, and I 0:10:58.120 --> 0:11:03.400 remember just feeling just embarrassed to be a Christian and 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:06.679 to be like trying to force or you know, just 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:10.000 trying to like minister to people whose beliefs have been 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:13.840 around so much longer historically than even Christianity had been around. 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:16.000 And I was really made me question what we were 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:20.120 doing and was this in Colorado? Um? You know, that 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:25.840 was in um To Hope Reservation, which is in the 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:28.880 center of the Navajo Reservation, which is we came in 0:11:28.960 --> 0:11:32.640 through Flagstaff and I believe it's in Nevada. So were 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:37.440 you doing mission work? Yeah? I was um which I 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:39.800 you know, ended up not you know, I was only 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:42.680 I was really I was only eighteen or seventeen or eighteen, 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:46.760 So it's hard to be accountable for your decisions at 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:49.480 that age, you know, Like I was certainly still a 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:52.920 kid learning. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. One of my uncle's was 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:56.080 a ministra or no yeah, on a reservation as we 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:58.440 called them in Canada, and it was always very it's 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:02.320 a strange Yeah, when you say conversion, that's the thing. 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:05.600 That's a dangerous word. I feel like, you know, Um, 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:09.360 I really like some of the other things we did. 0:12:09.360 --> 0:12:13.439 We worked a lot with just like feeding homeless people 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:18.080 and um and talking to them like they're really people. Um. 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:21.120 And I loved being a part of the Hopie community 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:23.600 when I was there and learning about their culture. But 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:26.840 I was more interested in learning about their culture than 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:31.680 trying to point out what was what, you know, try 0:12:31.760 --> 0:12:33.840 to find something wrong with it, you know, I I 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:36.280 love your culture and now drop it. Yeah, exactly. And 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:40.200 I think that was you know, like, um, that was 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:43.880 you know, the core of Western expansion. You know, well 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:46.880 not even I love your culture, but just like we're eliminated. 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:50.840 So yeah, and we'd like your land. Yeah, we love 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:54.200 your land exactly. We like that too. There's a lot 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:59.679 of religious language, or at least religious imagery, and some 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:04.640 of your songs in expecting to lose but standing in 0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:08.040 the water when you write those, are you are you 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:11.480 conscious that that's that it comes from that tradition or 0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:15.319 is it just is it just a language? You know? Um, 0:13:15.600 --> 0:13:17.880 it's a language I know, and it's something I always 0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:22.319 loved about Leonard cohen songs like he was a Buddhist 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:26.320 but was you know, loved the religion he was born into. 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:29.719 And but if you listen to his songs, it was 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:31.960 like there could be so sensual, but have these like 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:38.800 references to biblical verse. And since it's you know, such 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:42.800 a common I guess that language is so common or 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:45.760 so well known, at least at one point. I feel 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:50.080 like it's something people can relate to in a way, like, 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:52.400 you know, even like to stand in the water, m 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:58.440 the reference of being baptized or something like that, we 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:02.880 can like if you remove the religious aspect of it, 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:09.280 you can still have this cleansing idea you know, that 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:11.640 comes along with it. But I feel like it's a 0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:15.080 nice reference, it's a nice way to it's nice vernacular. 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:17.680 I guess, I don't know. We'll be right back with 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:25.480 more from Nathaniel Ratelift after the break. We're back with 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:30.040 Bruce and Nathaniel Rateliff. So tell me about Richard Swift, 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:33.840 who was who was a collaborator of yours and a 0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:37.040 producer on Night Sweats. Yeah, I had met him years 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:42.400 ago in London, was opening for Delta Spirit and Matt 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:45.120 Basquez was a good buddy and he loved Richard swift stuff, 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:47.920 and that's when I was first introduced to him. But 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:50.400 then it kind of took a while for us to 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:53.600 circle back to each other, and I had the send 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:56.720 them just randomly sent them demos through the advice of 0:14:56.720 --> 0:15:00.240 a friend of this stuff I was doing in my 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:03.920 attic just by myself, which eventually became The Night Sweats. 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:06.280 He really liked it and wanted to make a record, 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:08.720 and then I ended up having a record deal and 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:11.800 my and our guy suggested I work with him, and 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:13.880 I was like, well, we've already decided we wanted to 0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:18.400 work together. So so I went out to Cottage Grove, Oregon, 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:21.880 which just south Eugene where Richard had a studio, by 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:26.000 myself at first, and just had a huge batch of 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:28.600 songs and we just kind of started working, you know, 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:30.840 like mostly with one mic in the room. But it 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:33.520 was like an instant I don't know, we just had 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:36.040 like a kindred spirit, you know. And I know if 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:38.600 you talk to anybody that knew Richard, he would they 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:41.760 would probably all say that they felt like he made 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:45.040 them feel very special. You know, how did you build 0:15:45.040 --> 0:15:46.840 those songs and I don't want to talk about Night 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:52.160 Sweats songs, but were you always hearing those arrangements in 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:54.880 your head when you were writing? I mean I tend 0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:57.320 to have that with a lot of songs that I write, 0:15:57.480 --> 0:16:03.720 is hearing these other voicing, other instruments, and that's kind 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:05.920 of part of the fun process, you know, once you 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:10.480 get past the chords and the words and melodies, as 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:12.760 filling in all those gaps and like figuring out what 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:16.440 those other sounds are, you know, because sometimes you'll be like, oh, 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:18.480 and horns would be great here, and then you try 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:20.600 it and you're like, that's not That's not the sounds 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:23.080 that I'm hearing in my head. So you keep searching. 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:25.840 So I did that, you know. I kind of had 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:28.040 a lot of that with Richard and even like with 0:16:28.080 --> 0:16:32.200 the demos Um because some of that material ended up 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:36.480 being you know, like songs like You Need Me was 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:41.080 one that I had written, um maybe around that first 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:43.440 Night Sweats record somewhere in there, but just never had 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:46.160 a home. It reminds me, I mean, maybe it's a 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:50.120 lack of imagination on my part, but musicians who can 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:55.040 think of just you know, without another group of musicians 0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:56.800 in the room who can who can think of those 0:16:56.880 --> 0:17:00.000 kind of arrangements for some songs and reminds me a little. 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:02.560 Graham Parker was like that. When he started in England. 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:04.679 He was this pub rocker and then he went in 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:07.760 and they did a whole He was like this rhythm 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:10.840 and blues guy. And I always thought, Wow, how does 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:14.960 somebody do that and then turn around and write like 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:19.760 you acoustic songs and what It was a nice thing 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:22.320 about working with Richard two because I would I would 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:24.800 always have these you know, like like I said, from 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:27.840 the start of the song, there's always these other voicings 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:30.560 you hear, these other sounds or inspirentation that you want. 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:34.239 But that was really the thing that Richard was so 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:37.439 good at, is like even if I had those ideas, 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:39.520 sometimes he would be like, no, We're not going to 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:44.720 do that, which can be kind of you know, you 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:46.560 can get your feelings hurt, but you kind of have 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:50.080 to like let go of that and know that, like 0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:52.040 just try to stay out of the way of the song, 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:55.879 you know, and trust that somebody like Richard was trying 0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:58.399 to make the song the best it can be. But 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:02.000 he would always have that just these like incredible ideas 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:07.280 to make a mediocre song be a great song, you know. Um, 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:10.440 and sometimes that was eliminating some of those voices and 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:14.399 instrumentation that I thought made the song what it was. 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:18.479 So you know, wow, did he do the first night? 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:22.320 Sweats did? The first and second one second one, and 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:24.520 then and then even the EP we did, he ended 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:28.000 up like he mixed and um, I think he added 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:30.360 a couple of things to it as well. So yeah, 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:33.760 and then sadly he's and he passed away, Yeah, at 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:36.800 forty one, so pretty pretty did you see it before 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:39.080 he I saw him. As soon as I heard he 0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:41.520 was in the hospital, I flew out there. I just 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:46.600 kind of stopped everything, yeah, and wanted to be there 0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:49.320 that I just wanted to know what was happening, you know, 0:18:49.359 --> 0:18:54.480 I just knew he was really sick. And then um yeah, 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:57.919 and then and then he pretty quickly when I was 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:00.480 there for a day and then left, and then he 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:05.280 quickly went into hospice, and I went back again, you know, 0:19:05.720 --> 0:19:08.639 to just like I don't know, I wanted to shake 0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:11.040 him and like you, I wanted him to be coherent, 0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:14.480 and I wanted to talk to him and like you know, 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:17.639 trying to make him fight for for something, I guess, 0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:21.160 you know, but he wasn't really I wasn't really coherent 0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:24.640 by the time I got there. So are there particular 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:29.159 songs written in this album about him? Yeah? You know, 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:32.080 and it's still all right there. There's moments that it's 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:35.320 you know, there's moments where I'm talking about him. Rush 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:39.000 On in particular, is only just is just for specifically 0:19:39.119 --> 0:19:44.440 Richard and kind of talking to him and sort of 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:48.639 about him and that like, and I guess, you know, 0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:50.520 a lot of the album kind of deals with the 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:56.239 same thing that Richard and I shared or or um. 0:19:57.520 --> 0:19:59.159 I guess it's the thing that we all share. Is 0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:04.920 this like un unspeakable or undescribable brokenness that I don't 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:08.120 think we allow ourselves to be, to be vulnerable enough 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:11.679 to talk about to everyone. And I just I just 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:16.360 kind of question whether, you know, if we allow ourselves 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:19.720 to be able to to vocalize those things and to 0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:24.680 realize that we all share that sort of similar aching, 0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:28.960 that maybe wouldn't be as heavy. So I guess, like 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:32.840 songs like rush On, I'm really talking about recognizing that 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:37.399 in him, but I recognize it in myself as well. Okay, 0:20:37.480 --> 0:20:40.199 do you want to play another song. Sure, I'll do 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:43.359 a little upbeat one, but yeah, okay, the songs all 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:47.159 or nothing. Yeah, so this one in particular, it's not 0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:51.280 very heavy. But I remember I played it for Richard 0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:53.400 and it would take me a long time to kind 0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:57.000 of figure out the chord progression. But he was like, man, 0:20:57.040 --> 0:20:59.760 you can't be too Nielsen. So when we did the record, 0:20:59.800 --> 0:21:03.280 we really try to make the arrangement and production on 0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:06.480 it a little more like a little touch of Schmilsen 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:10.120 in the night. You guys love Harry Nielsen. We both did. Yeah, 0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:14.639 So okay, we go, We'll be right back after a 0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:21.480 quick break. We're back with more from Nathaniel rate list. 0:21:22.000 --> 0:21:25.359 When did you know you had this voice? You do 0:21:25.440 --> 0:21:27.720 a lot of things in that song, and I for 0:21:27.760 --> 0:21:29.800 your career, I mean, you can sing in a lot 0:21:29.880 --> 0:21:33.159 of different ways. Um, it took me a while to 0:21:33.160 --> 0:21:37.280 be comfortable with it, and even like since my started 0:21:37.280 --> 0:21:39.400 a solo career until now, I feel like I've learned 0:21:39.440 --> 0:21:42.600 so much and part of that process is learning how 0:21:42.640 --> 0:21:48.120 to be comfortable in your voice. How did you do that? 0:21:48.680 --> 0:21:51.800 I mimicked things for a long time just out of 0:21:51.800 --> 0:21:53.879 curiosity to see if my voice could do it or 0:21:53.920 --> 0:21:56.880 like try to understand it and like and I guess 0:21:56.880 --> 0:21:58.520 this is the kind of thing that I think people 0:21:58.560 --> 0:22:01.520 take lessons for. I just I don't know if I 0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:04.119 just didn't have anything else to do or what. But 0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:07.400 I mean I was working the whole time, so yeah, 0:22:07.440 --> 0:22:10.400 we should mention that as well as being a working musician, 0:22:10.720 --> 0:22:13.280 you always had a job. Oh yeah, all sorts of 0:22:13.320 --> 0:22:15.560 crappy ones too. So but you know, like when you're 0:22:15.560 --> 0:22:18.760 a janitor, Yeah, you're a janitor. I was a janitor 0:22:18.760 --> 0:22:20.840 when I was sixteen for a high school and when 0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:23.119 I didn't go to high school, so you didn't go 0:22:23.160 --> 0:22:25.879 to high school, no, My last year of school was 0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:28.959 seventh grade, so so then I ended up being like 0:22:29.000 --> 0:22:32.520 a janitor and groundskeeper. And it was kind of embarrassing, 0:22:32.600 --> 0:22:34.399 you know. It was at the school you would have 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:37.600 gone to. Was at the local school. Yeah, wow, I 0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:39.199 lived in that town, so I should have been going 0:22:39.240 --> 0:22:42.400 to school there. But then I was like during school 0:22:42.480 --> 0:22:46.560 year cleaning either cutting grass there or or cleaning the 0:22:46.640 --> 0:22:49.160 rooms at you know, like sort of a swing shift. 0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:51.720