1
00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:05,160
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Action Network Podcast, the number one show

2
00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:07,120
Speaker 1: for the invested sports fan.

3
00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:13,080
Speaker 2: Without further ado, That's what the game's all about.

4
00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:18,640
Speaker 3: All of a sudden, you feel like you can't miss

5
00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:21,720
Speaker 3: I'm gonna leave it up there.

6
00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:25,240
Speaker 4: You make if you try that again, Absolutely.

7
00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:26,680
Speaker 3: Trying to.

8
00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:31,480
Speaker 5: Welcome to the Action Network Podcast.

9
00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:33,800
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Matt Moore for this NBA edition.

10
00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:36,360
Speaker 5: Off season is here. We don't have a lot to

11
00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:36,760
Speaker 5: talk about.

12
00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:39,320
Speaker 1: I did a huge thing on win totals, breaking down

13
00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:42,840
Speaker 1: kind of my early thoughts on all thirty teams because

14
00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:45,920
Speaker 1: I'm a lunatic and did four thousand words on early thoughts.

15
00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:48,840
Speaker 1: I'll have a lot more on win totals both next

16
00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:50,680
Speaker 1: week and in the coming weeks as we get ready

17
00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,720
Speaker 1: for preseason, which guess what's gonna go by quicker than

18
00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:54,080
Speaker 1: we think.

19
00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:55,760
Speaker 5: The schedule'll be out here in a few weeks.

20
00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:57,480
Speaker 1: But before then, I kind of want to take a

21
00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:59,520
Speaker 1: step back and look at what happens.

22
00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:00,920
Speaker 5: So today we got two conversations.

23
00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:03,760
Speaker 1: The first is with Royce Young of ESPN, simply titled

24
00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:06,080
Speaker 1: what the hell happened with the thunder? Just what happened

25
00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:08,640
Speaker 1: since the Paul George trade? How they came to this

26
00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:10,960
Speaker 1: decision what that means for them. There's nobody better to

27
00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:12,440
Speaker 1: talk to you than Royce Young. I worked with them

28
00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:15,600
Speaker 1: at CBS and now he works for ESPN, the Worldwide Leader.

29
00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:17,759
Speaker 1: So first enjoy that, and then we're going to talk

30
00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:19,640
Speaker 1: to Worldwide WOB and WOB and I are going to

31
00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:22,440
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about super teams and trios and

32
00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:25,560
Speaker 1: duos and looking back at the last ten years of

33
00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:28,640
Speaker 1: kind of the most dominant franchises throughout its course. A

34
00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:30,440
Speaker 1: lot of interesting stuff in there. I enjoy talking to

35
00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,000
Speaker 1: mob about that. Make sure to rate, review, and subscribe

36
00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:35,200
Speaker 1: to the Action of Work podcast wherever you get your podcast.

37
00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:38,280
Speaker 1: It helps us out a lot. And I will be

38
00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:40,560
Speaker 1: back with another episode next week.

39
00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:45,720
Speaker 5: Until then, here's first off Royce Young. All right, joining

40
00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:46,399
Speaker 5: is Royce Young.

41
00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:50,560
Speaker 1: Royce has covered the Oklahoma City thunder forever, like literally

42
00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:52,880
Speaker 1: as long as Oklahoma City thunder have been a thing.

43
00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:55,920
Speaker 1: So I thought Royce would be the best person of

44
00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,640
Speaker 1: anyone for me to call up and ask what the

45
00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:00,400
Speaker 1: hell happened?

46
00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:02,960
Speaker 5: What the hell just happened. Let's start here.

47
00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:07,400
Speaker 1: Were you as caught off guard by the moves as

48
00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:09,359
Speaker 1: everybody else, So Paul.

49
00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:10,399
Speaker 4: George Trade, Yeah, man.

50
00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:15,280
Speaker 2: I mean, like, nobody had any feeling that that was

51
00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:19,280
Speaker 2: coming whatsoever. Obviously, both sides needed that to kind of

52
00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:22,160
Speaker 2: happen in the shadows, and they didn't need anything to

53
00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,079
Speaker 2: leak out, but even just the whispers of an idea

54
00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:27,000
Speaker 2: that Paul George would even be open to that, nobody

55
00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:27,400
Speaker 2: had any.

56
00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:29,360
Speaker 4: Any kind of inclination that that might be coming.

57
00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,040
Speaker 2: Now, once that happened, it became pretty obvious to everybody

58
00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:34,400
Speaker 2: that Russell Westbrook was going to be available for trade,

59
00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:37,320
Speaker 2: and so that wasn't surprising at all. That was more

60
00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,840
Speaker 2: of a matter of when, not if, but the fact,

61
00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:42,600
Speaker 2: you know, it's just funny to think about that. I

62
00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:45,000
Speaker 2: remember having a conversation with a few people in the

63
00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,920
Speaker 2: thunderfront office last summer after Paul George resigned, and they

64
00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:50,000
Speaker 2: were kind of like, man, then they're gonna be nice

65
00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:53,280
Speaker 2: to just have a simple summer next year. Because every

66
00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:55,519
Speaker 2: Thunder summer it was Kevin Durant's free agency, it was

67
00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:57,760
Speaker 2: with Westbrook signed and an extension, it was getting Paul

68
00:02:57,800 --> 00:02:59,800
Speaker 2: George to resign. And now they had these two guys

69
00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,280
Speaker 2: death for the long term, the primes of their careers,

70
00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:05,359
Speaker 2: and they could finally sit back and say, let's all

71
00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:07,079
Speaker 2: just take a deep breath in July and not really

72
00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:09,720
Speaker 2: worry about it. And they were wrong about that because

73
00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:12,800
Speaker 2: the NBA is the NBA, and things things tend to

74
00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:14,200
Speaker 2: go sideways quite quickly.

75
00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:16,920
Speaker 5: So there's gonna be as there always is.

76
00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:19,680
Speaker 1: Because the Thunder, I think are the favorite target of

77
00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:24,880
Speaker 1: everyone in the media. I tend to shrug away stuff

78
00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:27,280
Speaker 1: about the media. I tend to take umbrage at that.

79
00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:31,520
Speaker 1: But them relocating the team from Seattle, a coastal team,

80
00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:35,360
Speaker 1: they're being good immediately. They're having these MVPs, the hardened

81
00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:38,440
Speaker 1: trade like they've just garnered a lot of criticism. Do

82
00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,080
Speaker 1: you feel like there was anything that could have been

83
00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,760
Speaker 1: done to salvage this or was it as simple as

84
00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,600
Speaker 1: Paul George wanted to go home. Once Kawhi made that

85
00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:49,440
Speaker 1: an opportunity for him to go home and compete, that

86
00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:51,040
Speaker 1: was gonna be the case. The Thunder weren't going to

87
00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:53,760
Speaker 1: fight and try and you know, may have an unhappy

88
00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:55,080
Speaker 1: star and prolong everything.

89
00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:56,680
Speaker 5: And once that happened, Russ was gone.

90
00:03:56,880 --> 00:04:00,520
Speaker 1: The Athletic reported yesterday that they were actually, like earlierings

91
00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:03,840
Speaker 1: about the Thunder, looking at least at possibly trading Western

92
00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:06,760
Speaker 1: so do you think the situation could have been salvaged

93
00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,840
Speaker 1: to keep those two and remain in contention or was

94
00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:12,360
Speaker 1: there no way of really getting around this?

95
00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:14,920
Speaker 2: Well, the first thing they could have done differently was

96
00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,360
Speaker 2: get out of the first round. And that's seriously, that's

97
00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:21,159
Speaker 2: that was a big issue, not just from Paul George

98
00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:23,919
Speaker 2: and Russell Westbrook's perspective, which clearly a lot of that

99
00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:25,880
Speaker 2: responsibility falls directly on them.

100
00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,280
Speaker 4: They weren't getting it done, but.

101
00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:31,200
Speaker 2: Also the front office felt that way too, that you

102
00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:34,800
Speaker 2: know that this is something that I reported after it happened,

103
00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:36,839
Speaker 2: that the Thunder really looked at it at it as

104
00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,400
Speaker 2: this would this upcoming season was sort of it. It

105
00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:42,320
Speaker 2: was in some ways they had one more opportunity to

106
00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:44,360
Speaker 2: really take a real big swing at this because the

107
00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:46,560
Speaker 2: roster was way too expensive. They were going to have

108
00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,520
Speaker 2: to trim back eventually, and unless this upcoming season was

109
00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:55,200
Speaker 2: really successful. In how the Thunder defined success was a

110
00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:57,760
Speaker 2: little bit up in the air, whether that mint conference finals,

111
00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:01,160
Speaker 2: whether that meant NBA finals, meant whether that meant title busy.

112
00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:04,039
Speaker 2: They were prepared and had a plan in place to

113
00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:08,320
Speaker 2: start the teardown next summer because they understood that this

114
00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,160
Speaker 2: this kind of window of opportunity couldn't last forever at

115
00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:15,039
Speaker 2: the price that the roster was costing them. So, you know,

116
00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:17,400
Speaker 2: I think that all of that kind of had the

117
00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:19,760
Speaker 2: Thunder with a plan in place. It's not like Paul

118
00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:22,159
Speaker 2: George came with this trade request Matt and the Thunder

119
00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:23,160
Speaker 2: and San Presci.

120
00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:24,800
Speaker 4: Was like, oh, oh, what do we do now.

121
00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:27,320
Speaker 2: They had this plan kind of ready for the button

122
00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:29,080
Speaker 2: to be hit when they needed to. They just thought

123
00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,919
Speaker 2: it would come next summer. Now, could they have maybe

124
00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,080
Speaker 2: put things back together where they weren't they weren't facing

125
00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:37,200
Speaker 2: this right now. Yeah, absolutely, and they thought they had

126
00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:40,159
Speaker 2: quite honestly, because that's why they went out and signed

127
00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:41,400
Speaker 2: Mike Maskalla and Alec Burks.

128
00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:43,160
Speaker 4: They did those those sort of.

129
00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:45,920
Speaker 2: Kind of fringe moves with the mindset of let's add

130
00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:47,560
Speaker 2: to this roster, try to get it a little bit better,

131
00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:49,200
Speaker 2: try to get it in a place where it can compete.

132
00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:49,599
Speaker 4: The Thunder.

133
00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,640
Speaker 2: Every intent this year was to compete for the playoffs

134
00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,440
Speaker 2: and for what they thought could be, you know, a

135
00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:57,960
Speaker 2: deep playoff run. They felt pretty optimistic about it. They

136
00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,240
Speaker 2: felt like Westbrook could play better than he did last year.

137
00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:02,560
Speaker 2: But they were also they were also kind of concerned

138
00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:04,360
Speaker 2: at the same point, Matt. You know, Paul George, I

139
00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:05,880
Speaker 2: don't know how much time he's gonna miss in the

140
00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,000
Speaker 2: regular season, but he probably will miss sometime recovering from

141
00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,159
Speaker 2: his shoulder surgeries. And if they got off to a

142
00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:13,480
Speaker 2: slow start, and you know, this trade request had kind

143
00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:15,320
Speaker 2: of been lobbed by Paul George and the Thunder couldn't

144
00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:17,760
Speaker 2: get it done, and they're, you know, four and eight

145
00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:20,280
Speaker 2: or four and seven after the first couple of weeks,

146
00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:22,839
Speaker 2: and George isn't back yet, and now the trade request

147
00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:25,520
Speaker 2: goes public. Now there's higher pressure. They can't get the

148
00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:27,919
Speaker 2: same kind of return. That was something that the Thunder

149
00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:31,600
Speaker 2: were concerned with, knowing that they kind of had this

150
00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:33,840
Speaker 2: one year window of opportunity to begin with.

151
00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:34,800
Speaker 4: And I'd also.

152
00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:36,520
Speaker 2: Rewinded to say, this is something I said on Sports

153
00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:39,280
Speaker 2: Center the morning after they traded Westbrook, that the conversations

154
00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:42,799
Speaker 2: with Westbrook they dated, they predated the Paul George trade

155
00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:45,640
Speaker 2: for sure. The Thunder had kind of two way conversations

156
00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:48,040
Speaker 2: with Westbrook about what do you think the future looks like,

157
00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:49,400
Speaker 2: where do we go from here?

158
00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:50,320
Speaker 4: What's it going to be?

159
00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:54,440
Speaker 2: And that shouldn't be a surprise that the Thunder communicating

160
00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:55,880
Speaker 2: with their franchise player in that way.

161
00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,000
Speaker 4: And you know, I believe some of those.

162
00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:00,159
Speaker 2: Conversations may have said, you know, I trade could be

163
00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:01,680
Speaker 2: on the horizon, what do you think about that?

164
00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:03,599
Speaker 4: How do how you know? Where are the places you

165
00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:04,240
Speaker 4: might want to go?

166
00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:06,120
Speaker 2: But all that to be said, they thought they had

167
00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:07,520
Speaker 2: it in a place where they were going to play

168
00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:10,840
Speaker 2: out this upcoming year and hope that they could have

169
00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:11,800
Speaker 2: a successful season.

170
00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:13,640
Speaker 1: Part of me just can't believe how snake bit the

171
00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,800
Speaker 1: franchise is. And I I don't think it's about Seattle.

172
00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:18,400
Speaker 1: I think it's just like they're just our snake bit

173
00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,200
Speaker 1: in a certain degree. They were really fortunate to have

174
00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,200
Speaker 1: landed the draft spots into this, been smart enough to

175
00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:26,040
Speaker 1: land the guys that they did, and they built the

176
00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:28,640
Speaker 1: organization well, and they did all these things. Twenty twelve,

177
00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:31,960
Speaker 1: they weren't ready, but beyond like a Baca's injury, Westbrook's injury,

178
00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:35,680
Speaker 1: Kevin Durant injury in those years, Klay Thompson going super

179
00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:40,680
Speaker 1: nova in Game six into that cap spike, the cap

180
00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:43,360
Speaker 1: spike like even last year, because I was out there

181
00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:44,800
Speaker 1: in January and it wrote all that stuff.

182
00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:46,280
Speaker 5: I did the whole thing on PG and did a

183
00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:47,120
Speaker 5: whole thing on the Thunder.

184
00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:49,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, you were there when Paul George was like playing

185
00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:50,480
Speaker 2: like the best basketball in the.

186
00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:52,840
Speaker 1: World, and like I had bought in, Like I'll maintain

187
00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:56,040
Speaker 1: like I wasn't wrong. I was in Denver the night

188
00:07:56,080 --> 00:08:00,680
Speaker 1: that his shoulder got hurt, and I knew something was wrong.

189
00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:02,640
Speaker 5: And then in the.

190
00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:06,400
Speaker 1: Denver Nuggets visiting locker room, the training section is at

191
00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,320
Speaker 1: the front of the locker room, so you can't hide

192
00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:11,360
Speaker 1: guys away, which, by the way, should be changed. Just

193
00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:14,360
Speaker 1: gonna put that out there all training staff back. But

194
00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:18,120
Speaker 1: because of how obviously all teams treat visiting locker rooms

195
00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:20,360
Speaker 1: to make them uncomfortable, those guys were in the front,

196
00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:21,840
Speaker 1: and like I wasn't trying to listen in like I'm

197
00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:23,600
Speaker 1: usually trying to like block all that stuff out because

198
00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,320
Speaker 1: it's none of my business and like that's private medical stuff.

199
00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:28,640
Speaker 1: But like Paul George openly as I'm standing there in

200
00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:32,480
Speaker 1: a quiet locker room, says, yeah, I felt something like

201
00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:33,280
Speaker 1: something didn't.

202
00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:34,200
Speaker 5: Feel right after that hit.

203
00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:35,960
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, and like I kind of like

204
00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:37,720
Speaker 1: asked pr about it, and they were like, I don't

205
00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:39,600
Speaker 1: think there's anything going on, but I'll make sure to

206
00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:42,000
Speaker 1: check it out because they didn't know then and then

207
00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:43,760
Speaker 1: when he was like, oh, yeah, he's out the next game,

208
00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:45,599
Speaker 1: I was like oh, And obviously it kind of like

209
00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:48,920
Speaker 1: spiraled from there. And I will maintain that if Paul

210
00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:52,600
Speaker 1: George does not suffer that injury versus Denver, if he

211
00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,160
Speaker 1: doesn't get hurt, they get out of the first round.

212
00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,360
Speaker 1: I think they probably beat Denver. I think they probably

213
00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:02,120
Speaker 1: make the Western Conference finals versus a just hanging on

214
00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,920
Speaker 1: by a thread Warriors team and everything changes and that's

215
00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:07,840
Speaker 1: like how it goes. And that's one of the reasons

216
00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:11,000
Speaker 1: I'm so kind of like really surprised at how everyone

217
00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:13,320
Speaker 1: reacted to the first round exits. It seems like like

218
00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:15,440
Speaker 1: Westbrook and George and the front office were all like

219
00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:17,760
Speaker 1: too and everyone said this, like, can't get out the

220
00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:19,520
Speaker 1: first round, can't get the first round.

221
00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:20,719
Speaker 5: It's been three years and they haven't got out of

222
00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:21,160
Speaker 5: the first round.

223
00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:23,760
Speaker 1: Like all right, well, look, first year, totally different deal,

224
00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:25,800
Speaker 1: Like they were recovering from Durant. They didn't have a plan,

225
00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:29,080
Speaker 1: they hadn't rebuilt the roster. Westbrook goes crazy as MVP year.

226
00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:31,000
Speaker 1: They lost the Rockets, who are better, No big deal.

227
00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:34,720
Speaker 1: The second year Westbrook loses his mind versus Ricky Rubio

228
00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,600
Speaker 1: just loses his mind and they don't cover Joe Ingles

229
00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:39,080
Speaker 1: as well as they need to. And like that one

230
00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:40,880
Speaker 1: was just like it was a bad matchup that they

231
00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:43,679
Speaker 1: played terribly in. Okay, that one fine, but then this one,

232
00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:46,480
Speaker 1: I'm like, Paul George is healthy. They probably win that series.

233
00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:50,320
Speaker 1: It goes entirely differently like the Blazers were. Obviously they

234
00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:51,960
Speaker 1: made the Western Conference finals, so it looks like they

235
00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:54,080
Speaker 1: were this really great team. They were a team that

236
00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:56,560
Speaker 1: ran into the right sequence of teams at the right times,

237
00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:58,319
Speaker 1: and that's kind of how the Blazers have been under

238
00:09:58,400 --> 00:09:59,080
Speaker 1: Terry Stotts.

239
00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:00,280
Speaker 5: But I will always kind of.

240
00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:02,080
Speaker 1: Feel like, no, I think the Thunder were better, but

241
00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:04,400
Speaker 1: I seem to be in the minority of that, including

242
00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:06,800
Speaker 1: the Thunder who seemed to think, like, no, we really

243
00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:07,720
Speaker 1: weren't good enough.

244
00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:11,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and look, I think that like you kind of

245
00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,480
Speaker 2: laid out there, Matt, The Thunder are a popular team

246
00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,240
Speaker 2: to what if to infinity, right, I mean you can

247
00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:19,320
Speaker 2: what if them to death because of the players that

248
00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:20,080
Speaker 2: they've had.

249
00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:22,920
Speaker 4: On their team. And in some ways it's fair.

250
00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:25,400
Speaker 2: I mean that they did have James Harden, they did

251
00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:28,200
Speaker 2: have Kevin Durant, they did have Russell Westbrook and Serge Ibaka,

252
00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,160
Speaker 2: And I think some people are like, you know, they

253
00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:33,600
Speaker 2: point at that as some sort of, you know, massive

254
00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:36,800
Speaker 2: blemish on the organization. But I think a lot of

255
00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:39,040
Speaker 2: people within the Thunder look at it as like, yeah,

256
00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:41,000
Speaker 2: they have those players, Like what would have been better

257
00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:43,160
Speaker 2: to have whiffed on those draft picks and not had

258
00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,320
Speaker 2: Kevin Durant and not had James Harden, Like would have

259
00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:49,000
Speaker 2: would that help your perception of them? For them to

260
00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:51,640
Speaker 2: have not drafted those players? And look, it's obvious that

261
00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:55,040
Speaker 2: losing them some by trade, some by a free agency

262
00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:56,960
Speaker 2: does not reflect well on them necessarily.

263
00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,240
Speaker 4: But at the same point, look at this summer.

264
00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:01,480
Speaker 2: I mean, half of half of an All Star team

265
00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,679
Speaker 2: changed teams this year, and people are thinking that, oh, yeah,

266
00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:07,560
Speaker 2: the Thunder team from seven years ago should still be together.

267
00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:10,120
Speaker 2: I mean it's like, it's kind of ridiculous to think

268
00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:12,600
Speaker 2: that those four players should still be together. So all

269
00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:14,920
Speaker 2: that to be said to the point where you get

270
00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:19,120
Speaker 2: to now and the chances that they had this past season,

271
00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:21,760
Speaker 2: that's why they felt like they also kind of had

272
00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:25,200
Speaker 2: some optimism for this upcoming year. The Western Conference felt

273
00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:27,280
Speaker 2: feels a lot more open, or at least it did

274
00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:31,199
Speaker 2: before all the madness of you know, July fifth or

275
00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,080
Speaker 2: sixth or whenever that started, and the thunder felt like, look,

276
00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:36,600
Speaker 2: Russell Westbrook can play better than he played last year.

277
00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,200
Speaker 2: He had some some kind of bizarre shooting issues, free

278
00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,440
Speaker 2: throw issues. Paul George gets healthy, and they could really

279
00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:45,360
Speaker 2: try to make a run at pushing a little bit farther.

280
00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,400
Speaker 2: But I think at the same point they also looked

281
00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:49,719
Speaker 2: at the outcomes that they had experienced, and you know,

282
00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:52,360
Speaker 2: I think that you can say that Paul George's shoulders

283
00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:54,560
Speaker 2: had a big influence, but he also played pretty well

284
00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:57,200
Speaker 2: against Portland, and Portland didn't have use of nurkids, So

285
00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:59,960
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, they weren't kind of making the

286
00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,480
Speaker 2: excuses on their side, and again I think that the

287
00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,520
Speaker 2: responsibility lies directly at George and Westbrook. They just kind

288
00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:07,360
Speaker 2: of didn't get it done, and that's the way the

289
00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:10,520
Speaker 2: front office kind of wondered, like could they get it done?

290
00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:12,120
Speaker 4: And while also kind.

291
00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,520
Speaker 2: Of believing that there's reason to believe that it was

292
00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:17,160
Speaker 2: a team worth bringing back and trying it all over again.

293
00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:20,680
Speaker 2: Now The other kind of the other factor with it

294
00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,520
Speaker 2: is is you know, when Westbrook in twenty sixteen decided

295
00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:25,800
Speaker 2: to resign after Durant left, it was like he was saying,

296
00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:27,960
Speaker 2: I'm planting my flag. I don't want to leave. Here's

297
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:29,839
Speaker 2: where I want to be. And there was that kind

298
00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:33,040
Speaker 2: of resiliency to like Westbrook. It was a stubbornness maybe,

299
00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:34,720
Speaker 2: or resiliency however you want to look at it.

300
00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:36,080
Speaker 4: He wanted to stay.

301
00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:39,160
Speaker 2: He wanted to be part of kind of retooling the

302
00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,680
Speaker 2: roster and making another run. Clearly he didn't feel that

303
00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:45,880
Speaker 2: way this time around. And when Paul George decided that

304
00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:48,120
Speaker 2: he wanted to leave, Westbrook.

305
00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:49,439
Speaker 4: Didn't try to re recruit him. He didn't try to

306
00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:50,040
Speaker 4: change his mind.

307
00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:52,640
Speaker 2: If and I don't mean it to sound as a

308
00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:54,320
Speaker 2: critical thing, but Westbrook kind of saw it as his

309
00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,000
Speaker 2: opportunity to leave as well. And I think that everybody

310
00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,679
Speaker 2: kind of sell saw this as it's run its course,

311
00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,040
Speaker 2: here's the time to hit the eject button. You know

312
00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:04,240
Speaker 2: a lot of people kind of looked at it, Matt,

313
00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:06,840
Speaker 2: like the thunder shouldn't really panic here. Look at what

314
00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:08,880
Speaker 2: the Blazers did. The Blazers stuck with it. They could

315
00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:11,800
Speaker 2: have panicked after getting swept after losing ten straight playoff games.

316
00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:14,360
Speaker 2: The Blazers kept with that group and it paid off.

317
00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:16,200
Speaker 2: They went to the conference finals. A lot of people

318
00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:19,120
Speaker 2: felt like the Thunder should follow that same sort of mindset,

319
00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,320
Speaker 2: which I think the Thunder were going to. The problem

320
00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,200
Speaker 2: was their two top stars didn't want to follow that

321
00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:26,440
Speaker 2: type of mindset. Paul George and Russell Westbrook didn't feel

322
00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:28,480
Speaker 2: that way. They felt like it was time to change.

323
00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:31,320
Speaker 1: So going forward, when I initially had done my first

324
00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:35,760
Speaker 1: run of wind Totals, I like tank them. I was like,

325
00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:38,400
Speaker 1: they trade everybody like Chris Paul's probably gonna get dealt,

326
00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:40,720
Speaker 1: Like there's nobody there, Like this is gonna be awful.

327
00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:43,240
Speaker 1: I had them, I think I had them as low

328
00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:45,280
Speaker 1: as like like in the twenties.

329
00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:47,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, and then I was.

330
00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:49,320
Speaker 1: Like, Okay, well let's actually look at this, like are

331
00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:50,880
Speaker 1: they gonna be able to defend the way that they

332
00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:53,440
Speaker 1: have throughout the years because they've always been a really

333
00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:56,000
Speaker 1: good defensive team, even before Paul George was there. And

334
00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:57,960
Speaker 1: I was like, well, yeah, I mean I think Adam's

335
00:13:57,960 --> 00:13:59,840
Speaker 1: gonna have a bounce back season. The bench will still

336
00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:02,559
Speaker 1: be because Neurlans I think at least makes enough defensive

337
00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:05,320
Speaker 1: plays to be a force down there. They're still going

338
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,400
Speaker 1: to have Terence Ferguson losing Jeremy Grant hurts. They're gonna

339
00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:10,640
Speaker 1: get Andre Robertson back. That's going to help because I

340
00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:12,640
Speaker 1: thought he was Defensive Player of the Year before he

341
00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:15,960
Speaker 1: got hurt. And assuming that he plays basketball again, yeah,

342
00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:18,120
Speaker 1: good on that end if nothing else.

343
00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:19,160
Speaker 5: And Chris Paul.

344
00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:23,040
Speaker 4: They don't have Westbrook anymore, which right, you.

345
00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,360
Speaker 1: Know, Chris Paul last year after the All Star Break

346
00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:27,000
Speaker 1: was was really good defensively, and so I was like, yeah,

347
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:28,760
Speaker 1: but how are they going to score? Like where are

348
00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:30,480
Speaker 1: they possibly gonna get points from him? I was like, wait,

349
00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:33,280
Speaker 1: they have Daniel Gallinari and I go to Alexander. I

350
00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:35,760
Speaker 1: forgot about that. Those are two guys. I just completely

351
00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:37,960
Speaker 1: forgot now, like that's not like a rosterie look at

352
00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:39,000
Speaker 1: and go like, oh, yeah, it's gonna be like a

353
00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:41,800
Speaker 1: top ten offense. But their win totals thirty five and

354
00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:43,960
Speaker 1: a half. And I'm talking myself more and more into

355
00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,080
Speaker 1: the over with the caveat that you can't really bet

356
00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:47,600
Speaker 1: it because you don't know if they're going to kill

357
00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:49,640
Speaker 1: everybody there's just no way to know if they're going

358
00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:52,520
Speaker 1: to do if if Sam's going to eventually pull the

359
00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,880
Speaker 1: trigger on a diminished return for Chris Paul, if that's

360
00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,000
Speaker 1: out there, we don't know if Robertson's gonna be on

361
00:14:58,040 --> 00:14:58,320
Speaker 1: the table.

362
00:14:58,320 --> 00:14:59,000
Speaker 5: We don't know Adams.

363
00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,120
Speaker 1: Like Adams seems like a very very immovable deal at

364
00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:03,440
Speaker 1: twelve mil, and so like he seems like he's a

365
00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:06,120
Speaker 1: guy that can get moved, and that to me makes

366
00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:08,520
Speaker 1: that they're mostly like a stay away. What are you

367
00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,920
Speaker 1: expecting for the Thunder this season two months out of

368
00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:12,320
Speaker 1: the start?

369
00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:13,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're exactly right.

370
00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:15,480
Speaker 2: I mean, look, I think that they can win more

371
00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:18,120
Speaker 2: than thirty five games, and I think the Thunder believe

372
00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:20,240
Speaker 2: that too, mad. I think they feel like this team

373
00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:22,360
Speaker 2: that they currently have, if you just took away the

374
00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:25,880
Speaker 2: Jersey Thunder and just the recent history of trading away

375
00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:29,120
Speaker 2: to all star players in Russell Westbrook and Paul George

376
00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:31,000
Speaker 2: and just said, okay, you've got a team of Chris Paul,

377
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:34,800
Speaker 2: Steven Adams, Terrence Ferguson, Danilo Gallinari, gilg just Alexander. You

378
00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:36,360
Speaker 2: lay that team out there, you say, like, hey, that's

379
00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:38,560
Speaker 2: a team competing for a playoff spot. That's that's not

380
00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,880
Speaker 2: a bad team right there. So but the issue is,

381
00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,040
Speaker 2: like you said, that may not be the team that

382
00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:48,440
Speaker 2: they have post trade deadline or even past December twenty fifth.

383
00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,960
Speaker 2: So it's a it's a hard team to really predict

384
00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,320
Speaker 2: because if they were to keep this group together, which

385
00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,840
Speaker 2: they could, I don't think that it is a foregone

386
00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:00,480
Speaker 2: conclusion that they trade Chris Paul. I think that if

387
00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:02,400
Speaker 2: things go well and they you know, the Thunder, look,

388
00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,360
Speaker 2: they don't necessarily want to win. They're not looking to

389
00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:11,160
Speaker 2: retool this team and build a new contender around Chris Paul, Steven.

390
00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:12,200
Speaker 4: Adams, Danilo Gallinari.

391
00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,800
Speaker 2: Those players maybe not Steven Adams as much, but Gallinari

392
00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:18,520
Speaker 2: and Chris Paul are obviously going to be players that

393
00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:21,160
Speaker 2: are going to be available for trade and to try

394
00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,000
Speaker 2: to recoup assets. The Thunder are not in the full

395
00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:26,000
Speaker 2: rebuild yet. I think a lot of people keep looking

396
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,680
Speaker 2: at them as this rebuilding team. They haven't torn their

397
00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:31,320
Speaker 2: house down yet. They're still they've just gotten the roof off,

398
00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:33,800
Speaker 2: they haven't got it down to the studs yet, so

399
00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:35,760
Speaker 2: they can start putting a new house back together and

400
00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:39,040
Speaker 2: that rebuild where they win, You know eighteen to twenty

401
00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:40,840
Speaker 2: five games is coming in a couple of years that

402
00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,600
Speaker 2: they're not there yet. They still are trying to flip

403
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:45,840
Speaker 2: some of these these these high caliber players they have

404
00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:48,080
Speaker 2: for future assets or young players or whatever it might be.

405
00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:50,160
Speaker 2: So I don't know, it's just hard to look at them.

406
00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:52,480
Speaker 2: They could be a team that wins forty one forty

407
00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:54,200
Speaker 2: two games. They could be a team that wins twenty

408
00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:56,880
Speaker 2: eight because half the rosters looks different come you know,

409
00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:57,840
Speaker 2: January fifteenth.

410
00:16:58,000 --> 00:16:58,720
Speaker 4: I don't really know.

411
00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:01,600
Speaker 2: But if they keep this group together, which again I

412
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:03,760
Speaker 2: think that they might based on how it goes, and

413
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,080
Speaker 2: if Chris Paul buys in and he kind of boosts

414
00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:08,639
Speaker 2: his trade value and becomes somebody that's tradable next draft

415
00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,240
Speaker 2: where he can get more in return, then they could

416
00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,879
Speaker 2: be a team winning forty to forty three games.

417
00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:14,160
Speaker 5: I think.

418
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:15,880
Speaker 4: I think that there's a real possibility of that.

419
00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,439
Speaker 1: Well, question for you, is anyone going to have to

420
00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,560
Speaker 1: work harder over the next five years than the Oklahoma

421
00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:25,480
Speaker 1: City draft scouting department? Like, is anybody gonna have to

422
00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:29,120
Speaker 1: work harder because like they have so much draft equity.

423
00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:31,359
Speaker 1: I can't even make sense of it. I copied it

424
00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:32,960
Speaker 1: out of real GM and like hop it into a

425
00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:35,520
Speaker 1: notebook file and you have to scroll even if I

426
00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,920
Speaker 1: go full page on it. It's insane how many picks

427
00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:44,040
Speaker 1: they have that's down the line. Yeah, can one as

428
00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:46,240
Speaker 1: they may work harder, But two, how are the fans

429
00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:48,200
Speaker 1: going to handle kind of making it through this period

430
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,320
Speaker 1: before they have to get the better caliber picks?

431
00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:52,280
Speaker 4: That's a great question.

432
00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:55,199
Speaker 2: And on the on the draft situation, it's also not

433
00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:58,159
Speaker 2: just you know, the college scouting guy, you know what

434
00:17:58,240 --> 00:17:59,480
Speaker 2: he's got to go through, but he's got to go

435
00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:01,639
Speaker 2: like watch some seventh graders or something, because some of

436
00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:04,760
Speaker 2: those pics, some of those picks are I love the idea, Matt,

437
00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:07,320
Speaker 2: that there's some seventh grader out there right now that

438
00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:09,040
Speaker 2: has no idea that he just got traded for Paul

439
00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:11,920
Speaker 2: George like that, Like he's he's part of the Paul

440
00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,200
Speaker 2: George trade and he's going to be drafted in twenty

441
00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:16,520
Speaker 2: twenty six. But the Thunder are doing I don't want

442
00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:18,960
Speaker 2: to say unprecedented, but but I do think that they

443
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:20,960
Speaker 2: are doing something a little bit unusual and they're trying

444
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,600
Speaker 2: to think outside the box of how they can rebuild

445
00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:23,920
Speaker 2: the team.

446
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,240
Speaker 4: You know, they had. They had a decade long run

447
00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:27,200
Speaker 4: of success.

448
00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:29,560
Speaker 2: And when Sam Presty showed up with the team in

449
00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:32,439
Speaker 2: Oklahoma City, he talked about sustained success in the small market.

450
00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,360
Speaker 2: And look, they didn't win titles, and you know, everybody

451
00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:38,880
Speaker 2: evaluates them very harshly on that fact. But in terms

452
00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:43,520
Speaker 2: of accomplishing their goals of sustaining a successful small market franchise,

453
00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:45,720
Speaker 2: they did that. They had the second most wins in

454
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:47,760
Speaker 2: the NBA over the last ten years. They had a

455
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:49,680
Speaker 2: winning season every year except for the first one that

456
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:51,480
Speaker 2: they showed up from Seattle, so that this was a

457
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:55,680
Speaker 2: this was a well run, good franchise that won games.

458
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,800
Speaker 2: And so to your point, you know, when they transition

459
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:01,800
Speaker 2: into this where they are building out for the long term,

460
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:03,679
Speaker 2: they have to think outside the box because they've got

461
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:05,240
Speaker 2: to figure out a way to rebuild it. They understand

462
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,920
Speaker 2: the challenges of operating in Oklahoma City. So how will

463
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:11,440
Speaker 2: the fan base react to that? I have my concerns.

464
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,800
Speaker 2: I'm a little bit skeptical that when they're this team

465
00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:17,720
Speaker 2: is you know, twenty two games under five hundred in

466
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:21,000
Speaker 2: March and they're playing you know, the you know, some

467
00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,639
Speaker 2: team or the Phoenix Suns or whatever on a Tuesday night, Like,

468
00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:26,920
Speaker 2: are how our fans can react? But I would also

469
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,600
Speaker 2: say this, that's not unusual for any other city, and

470
00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,040
Speaker 2: I think people kind of view Oklahoma City as like, how.

471
00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:32,880
Speaker 4: Will they handle that?

472
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:36,080
Speaker 2: Well, go to a Washington Wizard's game in March, and

473
00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,000
Speaker 2: you know, when they're playing a bad team down you know,

474
00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,520
Speaker 2: twenty five points or whatever, nobody's showing up for that game.

475
00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:41,800
Speaker 4: Either.

476
00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,000
Speaker 2: They're in a bigger market, which helps in terms of

477
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,800
Speaker 2: the money that they can they can draw, but it's

478
00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:50,200
Speaker 2: it's not like this kind of unusual situation just because

479
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:53,120
Speaker 2: it's Oklahoma City. So fans support might wane a little

480
00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:55,080
Speaker 2: bit in terms of who's showing up, But once the

481
00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:57,080
Speaker 2: team starts to turn a corner again and they start

482
00:19:57,119 --> 00:19:59,720
Speaker 2: that rebuilding process, everything will come back. And so I

483
00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:03,080
Speaker 2: think there's a lot of a lot of optimism within

484
00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:05,399
Speaker 2: the franchise and within the fan base that they can

485
00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:07,239
Speaker 2: kind of rediscover it. Look, are they gonna draft three

486
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:08,320
Speaker 2: straight MVPs again?

487
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:08,960
Speaker 4: Probably not.

488
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,879
Speaker 2: That's a little bit unusual to draft Ran, Westbrook and

489
00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:13,919
Speaker 2: Harden and consecutive drafts. I don't think that they can

490
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,639
Speaker 2: plan on doing that. But can they build a contender again.

491
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:18,720
Speaker 2: I think they probably can because they have a really

492
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,000
Speaker 2: well run front office that has a pretty good draft record.

493
00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,199
Speaker 2: So I think people in Oklahoma City are sad that

494
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,800
Speaker 2: it ended, but also optimistic for kind of restarting this

495
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:29,560
Speaker 2: and seeing what the next era looks like.

496
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:30,680
Speaker 5: Great stuff.

497
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:33,919
Speaker 1: That's Royce Young from ESPN. Royce, thanks for joining us

498
00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,960
Speaker 1: on the Action Network podcast. You bet, Matt, Great stuff

499
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:38,800
Speaker 1: and my thanks to Royce for joining me. Next up,

500
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,840
Speaker 1: here's Worldwide Web. We're going to talk about.

501
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:42,639
Speaker 5: A number of things.

502
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:44,440
Speaker 1: The conversation we had just kind of let it go

503
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:46,399
Speaker 1: a little bit and just talk about kind of what

504
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:47,879
Speaker 1: we've seen from this decade and what we've seen the

505
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,880
Speaker 1: last couple of weeks, what the future means for super teams,

506
00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:52,200
Speaker 1: and all of that.

507
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:54,639
Speaker 5: A really great conversation. I hope you enjoy it.

508
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,640
Speaker 1: Here's my conversation with Rob Perez aka Worldwide Web.

509
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:00,960
Speaker 5: All Right, well, the thunder.

510
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:03,760
Speaker 1: Are over and that's crazy to me, but it's true,

511
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,840
Speaker 1: Like the thunder are finally completely and truly over.

512
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:08,320
Speaker 5: There's a lot to look at.

513
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,080
Speaker 1: We're all focused on, Oh, what's Houston going to look

514
00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:12,800
Speaker 1: like with those two and what is okayc do can

515
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:15,320
Speaker 1: they trade Chris Paul and what are Kawhi Leonarding and

516
00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:16,520
Speaker 1: Paul George is going to look like?

517
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:18,480
Speaker 5: And we don't ever really take a moment.

518
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,280
Speaker 1: And I think that this stretch from July and August

519
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,639
Speaker 1: provides with a rare opportunity when nothing's happening, knock on wood,

520
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:28,240
Speaker 1: to be able to actually look back. So, like my

521
00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:30,439
Speaker 1: first thing I wanted to kind of ask you is

522
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 1: what are the teams that are going to most stand

523
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,520
Speaker 1: out to you from the last like ten years, from

524
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,960
Speaker 1: like twenty ten to twenty and nineteen from this decade

525
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,600
Speaker 1: that are going to kind of spell what to find it?

526
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,639
Speaker 1: And there is there room for stuff for us to

527
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,200
Speaker 1: really remember and appreciate beyond just the Warriors.

528
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,119
Speaker 3: So first and foremost, I have two words for you

529
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:55,160
Speaker 3: when you say the Oklahoma City thunder are done before

530
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,200
Speaker 3: we even get to the bigger picture. And my two

531
00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,720
Speaker 3: words for you are Indiana Pacers. Remember when they traded

532
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:05,080
Speaker 3: Paul George, that team was supposedly restructuring, retooling, and Victor

533
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:09,440
Speaker 3: Oladipo and Sabona's turned into arguably together might be better

534
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 3: than what Paul George was. Oklahoma City's not done to

535
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:14,520
Speaker 3: me I'm not saying Gilgess Alexander's going to turn into

536
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,600
Speaker 3: Victor Oladipo overnight, but they didn't get nothing back and

537
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 3: they're not going to be dead last whatsoever like that.

538
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:24,960
Speaker 3: Chris Paul, Gilgess, Alexander, Steven Adams, that team in Gallinari,

539
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 3: that's a borderline playoff team. So I just want to

540
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:29,920
Speaker 3: get that out there first, that people are severely underestimating

541
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,399
Speaker 3: how decent. I'm not going to say good, how decent

542
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,440
Speaker 3: they can be. So because of that, now let's talk

543
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:37,359
Speaker 3: about the decade. So you want to start around like

544
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:40,760
Speaker 3: twenty ten, that's post the Boston Celtics original Big Three.

545
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:42,680
Speaker 3: That's when we start to get into the little bron

546
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,359
Speaker 3: not one, not two, not three, Miami Heat squad. We

547
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,000
Speaker 3: go from there to the Dynasty Warriors super team, and

548
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 3: when I look back on it, to me, the eras

549
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:54,200
Speaker 3: have been kind of defined, it's been an arms race, right.

550
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 3: The whole point of the Big Three was we're going

551
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,119
Speaker 3: to take pay cuts and we're going to play together

552
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,680
Speaker 3: and we're just going to simply out talent the rest

553
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,480
Speaker 3: of the league because rings mean that much to us,

554
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,680
Speaker 3: like for our legacy, for our business, whatever, we get

555
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,200
Speaker 3: rings and we worry about the newspapers later. That was

556
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 3: the reason for Kevin Durant going to Golden State, that

557
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:14,800
Speaker 3: was the reason for the phone call from the parking lot.

558
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 3: That's why the super Team was created because Superteam was

559
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 3: the next evolution of the final boss from the Big Three.

560
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 3: So Superteam was like Hampton's five a five all star lineup.

561
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:29,679
Speaker 3: But to end both of those eras or rains was

562
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 3: always Kawhi Leonard. First he ended the Big Three in

563
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 3: Miami by killing them in the finals. Then he ended

564
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,400
Speaker 3: the Golden State Warriors super Team obviously with the Toronto Raptors.

565
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:40,200
Speaker 3: And now we've gotten to the age of duos here

566
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 3: at the end of the decade. And the age of

567
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 3: duos to me is all of these top stars for

568
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 3: the most part, and I'm talking Lebron Durant, well, I'm

569
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,719
Speaker 3: talking about like five guys here. They've got their rings.

570
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,440
Speaker 3: So now it's all right, well we've checked that box.

571
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,160
Speaker 3: What's next here? Do we want to be the next

572
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,920
Speaker 3: billion dollar athlete? Do we want to be a global

573
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,399
Speaker 3: like the next Christiano Ronaldo? Do we just want to

574
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,440
Speaker 3: get together and with our friends at home where we're from,

575
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 3: Because you can make that the case for what the

576
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 3: Clippers did that Kawhi and Paul George just want to

577
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,439
Speaker 3: go home. We're moving more towards away from off the

578
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:13,239
Speaker 3: court stuff is becoming the motivations and I don't want

579
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,160
Speaker 3: to say the word legacy, but what matters to these players?

580
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 3: And I would challenge you to prove me wrong.

581
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think as I look back, like I was

582
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 1: looking at this list today of the best teams in SRS,

583
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 1: which is Basketball References Simple Rating System.

584
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 5: What it is.

585
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 1: It's basically point differential versus strength of schedule, which I

586
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,159
Speaker 1: think is a really smart way of being like, how.

587
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 5: Did you beat?

588
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 1: Like how much did you beat the best teams? Buy

589
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 1: is kind of a better way to look at it.

590
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 1: And the Thunder in twenty thirteen were thirteenth all time.

591
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 1: The top ten. Six of the top ten are taken

592
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:47,200
Speaker 1: by the Warriors and the Bulls. The Bulls in the

593
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 1: mid nineties obviously, and this Warrior's reign and the Thunder

594
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 1: pop in there at thirteenth or twelfth actually, which is

595
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 1: I thought was interesting that they were that close to

596
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 1: being a top ten all time team. They were really

597
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:00,959
Speaker 1: there was a sixteen to twenty two and they had

598
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 1: a real shot and then Westbrook got hurt in the

599
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 1: first round, and like we have hammered I think collectively

600
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 1: OKC for trading James Harden and losing Kevin Durant and

601
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,400
Speaker 1: now losing Paul George and all these things that have happened,

602
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 1: and you know, Westbrook being so divisive, et cetera. When like,

603
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,919
Speaker 1: I'll just look back and like that Thunder team was incredible.

604
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 1: It will go down as I think one of the

605
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 1: most underrated teams I've ever seen. In their reign was

606
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 1: so long, like from twenty ten to twenty sixteen, he

607
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 1: got six years over half the decade of Russ and

608
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 1: Kad being in the playoffs together and really pushing the envelope.

609
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 1: And then like Harden and time has become looked at

610
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,359
Speaker 1: as like being on those guys level. But when he

611
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 1: was in Oka, see, he wasn't like he was a

612
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 1: sixth man because it made more sense. Obviously he was

613
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 1: good enough to be a starter, but he also was

614
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 1: very much like he was like the third kind of

615
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,120
Speaker 1: supporting component. And we're kind of seeing this like I'm

616
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 1: really fascinated by the duos versus trio's thing, Like what

617
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 1: can you do with a duo that you can with

618
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 1: a trio? Can you just build better kind of supporting players?

619
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 1: Can you build a better roster? Can you have better sustainability?

620
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 1: Will your benches be better? Will you be able to

621
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,400
Speaker 1: sustain injury to a better degree. I think that that's

622
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 1: really fascinating. And that's before we even get to the

623
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 1: point that the Lakers have a duo. They don't have

624
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 1: a trio. And yet, unless you count Kuzma, which I

625
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:21,679
Speaker 1: do not.

626
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 3: Can I ask you a question at okay, see real quick. Yeah,

627
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 3: I've never even thought about this until now. You spawned

628
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 3: a new thought for me which is challenging to do.

629
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 3: Twy eleven OKAYC team, I want you to pick who's

630
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 3: better the finals team twenty eleven or the twenty sixteen team.

631
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,879
Speaker 3: Twenty sixteen obviously does not have hardened on it, but

632
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 3: those guys are at their peak of their galactic powers.

633
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 3: In terms of Westbrook Durant. You got a Bacca there.

634
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 3: What team was better?

635
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 1: It was a twelve team by the way, they made

636
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: the finals twenty eleven lost the Mavericks in the Western conface.

637
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:54,360
Speaker 3: Oh kay, yes, sorry, I meant that.

638
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 1: So my answer would be the twenty and sixteen team,

639
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 1: because like in twenty twelve they beat the Mavericks, who

640
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:05,399
Speaker 1: were like a shell of themselves, and it was like

641
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 1: a revenge tour thing. I believe they beat the Nuggets

642
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: that year in the first round, and then they beat

643
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 1: the Spurs in twenty twelve, if you remember, they went

644
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: down two and then one fourth straight and they basically

645
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 1: dared Russ in the first two games to make the

646
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: mid range jumper, and Russ was scared to and then

647
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: after game two he started just repeatedly getting to the

648
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,199
Speaker 1: nail and knock him down the mid range jumper, and

649
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,640
Speaker 1: like it drove Spurs fans crazy, and now that's how

650
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 1: he used to be with Russ, like we look at

651
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 1: him now, said, well, yeah, he's.

652
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 4: An awful shooter.

653
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,880
Speaker 1: He wasn't always like he could get hot from mid range.

654
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 1: If he did, you couldn't do anything because if he

655
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 1: came up on him, he was getting around he and scoring. However,

656
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,679
Speaker 1: in the finals, like they were just outclassed and we

657
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 1: thought like, oh, the thunder are going to learn from this.

658
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 1: They'll be back and we're going to see this every year,

659
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 1: and we saw it again.

660
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 5: But by sixteen, you.

661
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 1: Know, is Billy's first year, and I remember thinking, how,

662
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 1: like God, they're just not the same team defensively because

663
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 1: they were putting in new stuff and they were trying

664
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 1: to see what they could do. And by the end

665
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 1: of the season they figured out, Like in March, after

666
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: trying five different schemes, Donovan just chose one and was like,

667
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 1: this is what we're gonna do. And that's when they

668
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,400
Speaker 1: were just like frightening. They were so killer, and they

669
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 1: had shooters, and they had spacing, and they had so

670
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: much athleticism. They just ran the ball down your throat.

671
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:17,399
Speaker 1: And Adams was such a huge part.

672
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 5: Of that as well.

673
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 1: The Adams killed Okay or Golden State, like he was

674
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 1: such a problem for them. You look at it and

675
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:27,159
Speaker 1: you say it took the seventy three win team seven

676
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 1: games and one of the best playoff performances I had,

677
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 1: Like I am still shell shocked from watching Klay Thompson.

678
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,919
Speaker 1: I've never seen anything like it. I've never seen anything

679
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: like Game six.

680
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 5: Clay.

681
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 3: To this day, I say it every time. It was

682
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 3: the biggest nuts on the table game I've ever seen.

683
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 3: Maybe another a Lebron performance in Boston that came six

684
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 3: in Boston was arguably a bigger nuts on the table game,

685
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 3: but I've never seen those size nuts.

686
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: Before, and for it to take all that to beat OKAC,

687
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 1: I think shows it. Like the biggest thing with Okay

688
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 1: See is that they were so well balanced, like they

689
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: could beat you in so many different ways, and they

690
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 1: were never elite shooting, but they had Kevin Durant, one

691
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 1: of the best shooters of all time in his prime

692
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: and playing at such a high level, and they were

693
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: angry and they were just fired up, and they played

694
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: with such confidence, and they really played They played with

695
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: so much anger in the first like all really throughout

696
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 1: the series, they played with too much at the end.

697
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 5: The Thunder is so much the.

698
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: Story of Vicarous, like they just flew too close to

699
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: the sun, where in Game six and seven they were

700
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: so intent on beating them that they got sloppy and

701
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 1: tired and they made mistakes and couldn't keep their composure,

702
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: and that's that will always kind of like, that will

703
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 1: always be part.

704
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 5: Of that legacy.

705
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: But I definitely think that the twenty sixteen team was

706
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 1: better the one that I think from the decade that

707
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 1: I really wish that we'd got in the matchup of was.

708
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 1: There's a lot of things that you have to kind

709
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 1: of like chaos theory out, Like, all right, if Lebron resigns,

710
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 1: Bosh doesn't develop the blood clot and then like maybe

711
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: the his entire that was a condition. So maybe it

712
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 1: was always going to happen, but let's say it doesn't.

713
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: Let's just say that we remove the blood clot from

714
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: Bosh's entire thing, and Wade was still People forget how

715
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 1: good Wade was in the subsequent years after Lebron left,

716
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 1: Like he was very quietly still really good.

717
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 5: I always will wonder what would have.

718
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: Happened if we had the Triad heat, if they'd stayed

719
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 1: together and retooled with a younger core that Riley probably

720
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 1: would have pursued as supporting players versus with that skirmish

721
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: defense versus the Warriors. I'll always regret that we never

722
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 1: got to see that combination against each other.

723
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 3: That's a good thought. So Bosh prevented that, right because

724
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 3: then he signed first or something, and then he got

725
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 3: his hard problem. There was reasons why Lebron went back

726
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 3: to Cleveland that had nothing to do with like a

727
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 3: salary cap or something.

728
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 1: But the impression that I've gotten this is what everyone

729
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 1: kind of says. As everyone says, you know, he knew

730
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: that it was over, he knew that they were old,

731
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 1: that it was kind of done, and he knew how

732
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 1: good Kyrie was, and he knew that they had the

733
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 1: number one pick so they could get Love. And I'm

734
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 1: still kind of like the Lebron on really think that

735
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 1: Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love were better than the two

736
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: guys that he just won two titles with and went

737
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 1: to four straight finals?

738
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 5: Did he really think that?

739
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 1: And like I wind up, especially the Lakers move, I

740
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 1: think it actually cementsus. In my opinion in retrospect, I

741
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 1: think Lebron made after he won two titles and got

742
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 1: that off of his back, like I'm a multiple rings guy.

743
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 1: I think he started to make decisions based off of

744
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 1: what he wanted for his life, his legacy and his

745
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: brand and the basketball stuff. He was like, I can

746
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 1: do this wherever I'm good enough, I can figure this out.

747
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 5: And I think he did.

748
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 1: That with Cleveland, where he was like, I want I

749
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 1: want to go home. I want my kids to be

750
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 1: back in Ohio. I want to bring them a title.

751
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 1: It's gonna be good for my brand because it's like

752
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: a total redemption story. I just think that there was

753
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 1: a lot of connections there that was like he just

754
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: decided to do that, versus it was some sort of

755
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 1: really strategic move like I'm sorry, no player is ever

756
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: going to be like, hmm, you know what's actually best

757
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 1: for me winning a championship, leaving Dwayne Wade and pat

758
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,479
Speaker 1: Riley to go play for Dan Gilbert with Kyrie Irving.

759
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 3: No, that feels like an outlier to me, just because

760
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 3: of his connection in New Cleveland and three he had.

761
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 3: While you were saying that, I went all the way

762
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 3: back to the Showtime Lakers, and is there a zigzag

763
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 3: theory in terms of like super teams versus the one

764
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 3: like the matrix, there's always the one that resets it

765
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 3: the matrix and restarts a life. So we had the Showtimelakers,

766
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 3: which whatever, let's just call them a super team, and

767
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 3: we have the Jordan Era, which is like focused around

768
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 3: Michael Jordan coming out of the Jordan Era into are

769
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 3: we at the first reign of Kobe yet? I don't

770
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 3: think so. But there was certainly a Spurs team in

771
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 3: there that was built around the team concept versus the individual.

772
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 3: And then we get into the Lebron age of the

773
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 3: end of the two thousands, and that's the one big

774
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 3: matchup for me that we never got was Kobe versus Lebron,

775
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 3: which kind of spurned the and spawned out the Miami

776
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 3: Heat Big Three. So now we get into that age

777
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 3: of like, okay, now, everyone, let's team up for the

778
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 3: next five six years. And now that the teams are done,

779
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 3: we have the Kawhi duo age, and it's just I

780
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 3: don't know if it's just luck in terms of going

781
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 3: back and forth between like Okay, now we should all

782
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 3: team up and go get rings. It's a matter of

783
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 3: like who has the rings? So if Giannis never gets one,

784
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 3: is he going to lead the next super team era?

785
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 3: And is that going to happen in Milwaukee or somewhere

786
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 3: else that Do rings matter that much to him? Do

787
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 3: rings matter that much to anyone at all anymore? Is

788
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 3: what I'm starting to think about. But if we go

789
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 3: back to a Big three type of style for assembling

790
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 3: super teams, it feels like he's the only one left.

791
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 3: I don't know if Davis is good enough or healthy

792
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 3: enough to consider, but Yiannis would feel like the beginning

793
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 3: of Oh my God, like he's not doing it himself.

794
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 3: He went to Blank to go get a ring. Just

795
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 3: a first thought, that's all.

796
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 5: I wonder you asked that you rings matter that much anymore.

797
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: I wonder if the fact that from twenty twelve to

798
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 1: two thousand and eighteen that for a seven season stretch,

799
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 1: it was either Lebron or the Warriors, it was either

800
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 1: Lebron or the Warriors. And so when you have all

801
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 1: that consolidation of the titles with nobody else in there,

802
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: you don't have as much peer pressure to be like, oh,

803
00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 1: I got to get a ring because this other guy

804
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: got one because nobody else on it was just Lebron

805
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 1: and Kyrie and it was Lebron Kyrie Love and really

806
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 1: just Lebron and Kyrie. Maybe there's been a change in

807
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: that now you even have that in nine these guys

808
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 1: are still desperate for it. You know, the guys are

809
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: still ring Jason then like Barkley John and the Rockets.

810
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 1: But I do wonder if maybe that has altered things

811
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:16,760
Speaker 1: a little bit of social media, like all these decisions

812
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 1: that we've seen, how unhappy guys that I even have

813
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 1: the titles and everything, how unhappy they still are.

814
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 3: D if you ask anyone on social media, just social media,

815
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 3: like Kevin Durant's his rings in his Finals MVPs. You

816
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,280
Speaker 3: add them all up and it's equal to zero point

817
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,800
Speaker 3: five of what Kawhi Leonard just did with the routers

818
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 3: because he did it by himself, and all the narratives

819
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,360
Speaker 3: around him in the publicity he got for doing it

820
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 3: as a solo act make it worth more in the

821
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,319
Speaker 3: eyes of fans. Now, what does that mean in terms

822
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 3: of the eyes of the players, And like the Hall

823
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 3: of Fame, is it different? And I think it is

824
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,240
Speaker 3: different because the players probably just see rings his rings,

825
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 3: no matter how you get them, because they're they're in

826
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 3: the trenches and we're not. But you do bring up

827
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 3: social media, and businesses are formed around images and narratives

828
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 3: and agendas and Twitter accounts and stuff like that. So

829
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 3: as the technology evolves in terms of how we consume

830
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 3: the game, will mindsets of the stars evolve with it?

831
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 3: Because so far, I don't think the answer was yes

832
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:15,280
Speaker 3: until just this upcoming season.

833
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, because they look at it like Wade was willing

834
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 1: to take a step back for Lebron in twenty fifteen

835
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 1: and sixteen when they lost, but they had the chance

836
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 1: to obviously you had Steph as the best player, and

837
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 1: then Draymond and Clay were willing to be the supporting guys.

838
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 1: And then when Durant came, Curry was willing to come

839
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 1: to change and be the supporting guy. Like Curry shifted

840
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:35,799
Speaker 1: to be like, no, it's okay, I can be the

841
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 1: second best guy and that's all right.

842
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 5: And so that's the question.

843
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 1: Now with I think as we judge it, and even

844
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: to a degree, to a degree like Kawhi definitely did

845
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 1: on his own, but Kyle Lowry has been like an

846
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,720
Speaker 1: all star, top level point guard in the Eastern Conference

847
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 1: for years. Lowry slid very comfortably into I'm going to

848
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 1: be like the second best guy and I'll, you know,

849
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 1: I'll leave the team when you're road managing and do

850
00:35:58,920 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff.

851
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 5: He supported him, and then they had other great guys

852
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 5: right that.

853
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 1: Pascal Siakam was huge with him this year and great

854
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 1: in the playoffs, and Mark Asaul was huge in the finals,

855
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 1: and Fred van Vliet and all these guys.

856
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 5: But you're always gonna have those kind of situations like

857
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 5: the bulls.

858
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 1: Even like I think a lot about Horace Grant and

859
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:15,879
Speaker 1: how good he was from eighty nine to ninety four.

860
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: He was awesome in that first run with the Bulls defense, offense,

861
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 1: did all the little things and he was like that

862
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:24,959
Speaker 1: supporting player. But also Pippen could have been a number

863
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 1: one guy, but he was good being the number two.

864
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 1: And so you have to have those guys that are

865
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: willing to do that. And maybe that's the reason to

866
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,359
Speaker 1: really buy in on the Clippers is that's what they've

867
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: got is they've got it. They've got an MVP quality

868
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 1: top guy in Kawhi Leonard, and they've got a guy

869
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,240
Speaker 1: that was third in MVP voting this year. And Paul George,

870
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 1: who is willing to come out and say like, yeah, no,

871
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,239
Speaker 1: I'm okay with being second fiddle. He was okay with

872
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 1: it with Russ and he's okay with it Kawhi. Like

873
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 1: maybe that works to the Lakers. Maybe a D's willing

874
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 1: to be the second guy or Lebron.

875
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 3: I was thinking for them, it should be the other

876
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,879
Speaker 3: way around. That Bandon Robin has always proved successful back

877
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 3: to Jordan and Pippen, Kyrie and Lebron, you name it.

878
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 3: In the one time that like they tried to be

879
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 3: two Batman's that you just talked about Wade and Lebron.

880
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 3: It didn't work. And as soon as they realized that

881
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 3: we have to have an alpha of beta, that seems

882
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,840
Speaker 3: to be the strategy here and why duos certainly can work.

883
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 3: And if Paul George can be that secondary primary option

884
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 3: is what I like to call him. If he can

885
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,360
Speaker 3: be that for the Clippers, they're certainly going to be

886
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 3: even better than we imagined. But the interesting one is

887
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 3: across the street with the Lakers, because I would like

888
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 3: to see Lebron become the primary secondary guy, just because

889
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 3: I know how good Davis is. Like that man needs

890
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 3: to be unleached. He is at the peak prime of

891
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 3: his physical career. Lebron is still arguably the best player

892
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 3: on Earth, but he's the one guy that can make

893
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:43,320
Speaker 3: everyone else better as a robin. It would be interesting

894
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,720
Speaker 3: to see, like Davis commanding the ball down the stretch

895
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 3: and let's see how this works. Are we at that

896
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 3: point yet? I don't know, But that is something that

897
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 3: they need to figure out in the regular season that

898
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 3: when the spotlight is bright here in May and June,

899
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 3: who are we going to is it? Because you can't

900
00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 3: just switch it up and say, like, all right, it's

901
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 3: Lebron's turn. I don't think that can work, despite how

902
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 3: good these two guys are. I don't know. I'm kind

903
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 3: of talking about my ass right now.

904
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 5: No, it's good. I think it's a good discussion. It's

905
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 5: been good. It's gonna be fascinating.

906
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 1: It's why I'm I'm as excited for the season as

907
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 1: any I think I've ever covered in terms of the

908
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 1: last time it fell out. This was twenty and fourteen fifteen,

909
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 1: the start of the Warriors era, because we were just like,

910
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:22,439
Speaker 1: we don't know, like, how's the run in Cleveland's gonna work?

911
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:24,320
Speaker 1: Like they should be the title favorites, but there's a

912
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 1: bunch of really good teams. And then like the Hawk

913
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: summerge that season and were really fun before they melted

914
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 1: into oblivion in the playoffs, but also they kickstarted the

915
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 1: Warriors and the Thunder were still good. Like that season

916
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 1: was awesome, and this one feels a lot like that

917
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 1: with the possibility of what's going to happen.

918
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 5: And you'll be able to read all about it as

919
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 5: well as how to bet on it at Action Network.

920
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,240
Speaker 1: As this wraps up this edition of the Action Network

921
00:38:44,280 --> 00:39:10,840
Speaker 1: Podcast