1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here, 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of 3 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election. 4 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:11,719 Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade 5 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent. 6 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible. 7 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:18,279 Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means 8 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:20,080 Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. 9 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:25,440 Speaker 3: But enough with that, let's get to the show. All right, 10 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 3: good morning, and welcome to Counterpoints. 11 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 4: We have a truly spectacular show today, don't we Emily. 12 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 5: That was as enthusiastic. 13 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 3: That's really amazing. 14 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 5: At a lower volume, it's amazing. 15 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 3: It's gonna be amazing. 16 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,199 Speaker 4: No, Joe Biden has said that he has decided how 17 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 4: he's going to respond to the Iraqi militia attack on 18 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 4: US troops that were for some reason in Jordan, reservists 19 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 4: for some reason in Jordan, which through our own blunders, 20 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 4: ended up killing three service members. Biden is now saying 21 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 4: he's going to respond, he has not done so. 22 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 3: As we go to go to air yet, we're. 23 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 4: Going to talk about the kind of the propaganda war 24 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 4: that's going on in the US media around both the 25 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 4: October seventh atrocities as well as the atrocities that have 26 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 4: been carried out since then. 27 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 3: What else we got? 28 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 5: Yeah, because you and your colleagues have a really interesting story. 29 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 5: Stay tuned for this about what happened inside the New 30 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 5: York Times with an episode of The Daily related to 31 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 5: the conflict in her own Palestine. So I'm excited to 32 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 5: get into that. Right, the squad is having a really 33 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 5: bad week, and as our resident expert, actually not even 34 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 5: our resk, but resident expert the media is expert on 35 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 5: the squad, We're going to talk to you about some 36 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 5: you know, maybe blenders or investigations between ilhan Omar, Corey Bush, 37 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 5: and Jamal Bowman. 38 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 4: Scandals are hitting three of the six members of the squad. 39 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 4: And I kind of ginned this up myself so that 40 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 4: I could promote my book a little bit longer. 41 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 3: It was pretty clever. 42 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 4: I instigated a Department of Justice investigation into court. 43 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 5: You foiled the complaint. 44 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 4: I mistranslated ilhan Omar's speech before a group of Smalley 45 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 4: Americans in Minnesota, and I dug up Jamal Bowman's old 46 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 4: nine to eleven poem. 47 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,359 Speaker 5: Well, you actually had that already though, because you read 48 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 5: it often. 49 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, but I held it back just so I could 50 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:15,639 Speaker 4: push the book a little bit more. 51 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 5: If you stay tuned for anything today. 52 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:19,079 Speaker 3: None of that was true, but those are the scandals 53 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:19,920 Speaker 3: that we're going to talk about. 54 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 5: H Yeah, we're going to go into a clip of 55 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 5: Republican Congressman Mariel Viral Salazar, who's from Miami area, getting 56 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 5: grilled in an interview, and this is a clip it 57 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 5: was going pretty viral, but it also speaks to some 58 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 5: much broader issues in Washington, d C. So stay tuned 59 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 5: for that as well. And finally, we're going to play 60 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 5: a clip of Ejing Carroll on Rachel Maddow's show. Again 61 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 5: that is super viral for some really I think bad reasons. Obviously, 62 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 5: Trump got hit with an eighty three million dollar payment, 63 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 5: so Egan Carroll was discussing, you know, what she's planning 64 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 5: to do with some of the money, and I think 65 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 5: Ryan her comments might as you could see on her 66 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 5: lawyer's face. We'll get into this, but they might bear 67 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 5: they might have some effect on the case itself because 68 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 5: Trump is appealing and. 69 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 4: If we have time, we're going to get into both 70 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 4: the new sanctions that the State Department slapped on Venezuela 71 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 4: and how those contrast with the lack of sanctions placed 72 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 4: on Pakistan, despite the fact that Pakistani secret courts just 73 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 4: sentenced Imran Khan for a second time in just as 74 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 4: many days. This time, the first sentence was ten years. 75 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 4: Next trumped up sentence was fourteen years. State Department completely 76 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 4: fine with that. State Department has a problem when it 77 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 4: happens to Venezuela. If we don't have time to get 78 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 4: to that in this two hour show, we'll do something 79 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 4: extra and catch it later. 80 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 5: Yeah, we have a clip of Ryan actually, yes, the 81 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 5: State Department on that. Let's start with President Biden discussing 82 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 5: Iran yesterday. Here's this clip from Joe Biden outside the 83 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 5: White House. 84 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: We'll respond responsible the sense of the supplying the weapons 85 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: to the people. 86 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 6: Who are giving. 87 00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 7: Well, we'll have that discussion. 88 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: I don't think we to wider war and the movileast. 89 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 5: That's not what I'm looking for you, Okay. So we 90 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 5: also have a clip from the Pentagon responding to some 91 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 5: similar questions. Let's roll a two here. 92 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 8: I wouldn't say that the conflict is spreading in that 93 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 8: we've seen over one hundred attacks on US forces. Unfortunately, 94 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:18,359 Speaker 8: over one hundred attacks on US forces in Iraq and 95 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:21,599 Speaker 8: Syria and of course now in Jordan. We don't want 96 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 8: to see a widening of this conflict. We don't see 97 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 8: this conflict widening as it still remains contained to Gaza. 98 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 8: But this attack was certainly escalatory in that it killed 99 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:34,279 Speaker 8: three service members, three of our US service members, And 100 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 8: as the President has said, we don't see conflict. We 101 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 8: don't want to see wide a widening of a regional war. 102 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:43,720 Speaker 8: But we will respond to the time and place of 103 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 8: our choosings. 104 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 9: Not spreading when troops literally have died in another country. 105 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 8: Well again, but they've also been launching these attacks since 106 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 8: October seventeenth, and again we can't discount the fact that 107 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:58,479 Speaker 8: these attacks are incredibly dangerous put our service members at risk, 108 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 8: but they have not, up until yesterday, inflicted lethal harm. 109 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 8: They have been predominantly minor injuries and minor damage to infrastructure. 110 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 4: It is interesting that we feel like we have to 111 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 4: respond by escalating when typically this attack would have been 112 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 4: intercepted and like she said, it would have caused minor damage. 113 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:24,280 Speaker 4: We would have knocked the drone out of the sky. 114 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 4: Maybe it hits a fence, and they have to fix 115 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 4: a fence post. But because we screwed up and our 116 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:35,479 Speaker 4: defenses presumed that this drone was actually a US drone 117 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 4: that had been out flying around Jordan and who knows 118 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:41,479 Speaker 4: where else, that we let it get too close to 119 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 4: the base. When it got too close to the base, 120 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 4: it killed three soldiers. So it's very interesting that we 121 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 4: feel like, yes, they did launch it, but if we 122 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,720 Speaker 4: had intercepted it, like we had intercepted every other other one, 123 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,239 Speaker 4: we would not feel like we had to attack iron. 124 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a great point that our own incompetence, and 125 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:00,719 Speaker 5: I think this is what's so scary about being fanned 126 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,159 Speaker 5: out across the Middle East in ways that actually you 127 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:06,279 Speaker 5: and Ken clippenslaying and the intercept in general has been 128 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 5: I think dogged at tracking down and pushing these questions 129 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 5: about who's in Yemen? 130 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 3: What do you mean? 131 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 5: We're in Yemen? That's I think what's so dangerous. 132 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 3: Meming and we're in Jordan. 133 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 4: Best seller made a good point to Daily you know, 134 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 4: you know where American troops are not dying Afghanistan, And 135 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 4: people have been saying for years now, leaving troops in Syria, 136 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 4: leaving troops all spread out all over the Middle East, 137 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:30,839 Speaker 4: is just giving targets to these milicias. 138 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 5: Say you make a mistake, like in this case, three 139 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 5: service members die. 140 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 3: And now we're required to go to war over it. 141 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 5: Right, right, And so then you have the pressures. You 142 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 5: have all of that, and just because of our own 143 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 5: incompetence and because we were fanned out across the Middle 144 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 5: East in different ways. Now again the fault is with 145 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 5: the people who are sending drones to us for killing 146 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 5: the service members. That doesn't excuse the incompetence at all, 147 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 5: and it doesn't excuse us having this strategy that makes 148 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 5: us so vulnerable to getting into wars, because, like you said, 149 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 5: like these pressures can change in an instant. 150 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 4: And meanwhile, as Cristal Osaga talked about yesterday, the negotiations 151 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 4: over some type of resolution to the hostage crisis in 152 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 4: the war itself can continue, each side rejecting offers and 153 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 4: offers and counter offers. Meanwhile, we can put up this 154 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 4: next element here, Hamas appears to be regrouping in northern Gaza, 155 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 4: and a sign of Israel retreat, retreating, and the war 156 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 4: effort going quite poorly on the ground for the IDF. 157 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 4: Now if you remember, the State Department won a concession 158 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 4: from Israel that United Nations surveyors would be able to 159 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 4: go into northern Gaza and just check out the situation 160 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 4: and come back. 161 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 3: With the report on what it would take to. 162 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 4: Get house to the standing population to be able to 163 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 4: go back to their homes. Matt Miller at the State 164 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 4: Department yesterday said that that that is now on hold 165 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 4: because of so many Hamas militants resurfacing in this area. 166 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 4: Israel is saying publicly that Hamas is even policing the area. 167 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 4: And this comes after Israel said maybe a dozen different 168 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 4: times that they had operational control of Northern Gaza, which 169 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 4: was in the face of so many analysts saying it's 170 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 4: not possible, like with just simply with the civilian population 171 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 4: against you, with the tunnel, with the tunnels, you know, 172 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 4: remaining operational, despite the fact that they're now flooding them again, 173 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 4: Israel flooding them with water again, something like eighty percent 174 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 4: of them are still functional. And the Israeli economy is 175 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:56,959 Speaker 4: buckling under the weight of all of this because not 176 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 4: only are they have they now cut off their main 177 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 4: source of low wage labor, which is you know what 178 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,559 Speaker 4: West Bank Palestinians and Gazen Palestinians that are not allowing 179 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 4: into the country anymore, but hundreds of thousands of their 180 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 4: other Israeli workers have been called up and are fighting 181 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 4: the war. So you've got entire companies that are just 182 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 4: basically empty of workers, and you can't run an economy 183 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:25,319 Speaker 4: for long under those conditions, especially when tourism, which is 184 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:28,359 Speaker 4: a major part of the economy, is also spiraling. 185 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 5: Your point about Hamas returning to northern Gaza is such 186 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 5: an important one. This is quote from that Guardian article 187 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:35,959 Speaker 5: that we just had up on the screen from Michael 188 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,679 Speaker 5: Milsteen of the Institute for National Security Studies, which is 189 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 5: basically a think tank that's in Israel. It's based in 190 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 5: Tel Aviv. He said, Hamas controlled these areas, so there's 191 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 5: no chaos or vacuum because it is the workers of 192 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 5: Gazam municipality or civil rescue defense forces who are effectively 193 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 5: part of Hamas, who are enforcing public order. Hamas still exists, 194 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 5: Hamas has survived. The IDF version is that in the 195 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 5: northern part of Gaza, the base, sick military structure of 196 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 5: Hamas was broken. That only works with a conventional army, 197 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 5: but not for a flexible guerrilla operation like Hamas. We're 198 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 5: already seeing individuals as snipers, setting booby traps and so on, 199 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 5: so many casualties in northern Gaza over the last few 200 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 5: months for that goal of eliminating Hamas. A lot of 201 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 5: people died in the interest of eliminating Hamas. This is, 202 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:30,679 Speaker 5: I mean, beyond tragic to realize that. You know, again, 203 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 5: we've been questioning whether that was a possibility when you have, 204 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 5: as Michael Milstein puts it, a quote flexible guerrilla operation. 205 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 5: And I think we're going to be seeing increasingly that 206 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 5: the answer to that is what people suspected. It was 207 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,439 Speaker 5: not possible to wage that kind of war and quote 208 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 5: eradicate Hamas. 209 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 3: I think and Saga has made. 210 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 4: I think early on this Worsaga was making some comparisons 211 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 4: to Vietnam and the vietcom and I think those are 212 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 4: apt in the sense that you could also say it 213 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 4: in comparison to the American Revolution, like the idea that 214 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 4: the British were going to come over here or the 215 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 4: US were going to go over to Vietnam and we 216 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 4: were and they would just magically pluck out, you know, 217 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 4: Sam Adams and John Adams and go find you know, 218 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:20,679 Speaker 4: Thomas Paine and kill them. And you know, flat in Philadelphia. 219 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:22,839 Speaker 4: Granted they didn't have drones, they did not they did 220 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 4: not have drones. They had fire and torture, and they 221 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 4: used it pretty ruthlessly. But because the the gorilla army 222 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 4: of the American revolutionaries was part and parcel of the 223 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 4: the kind of the patriotic resistance, you know, to Britain, 224 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:41,719 Speaker 4: like you're not going to just get rid of it, 225 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 4: Like that's not going to happen in Vietnam. 226 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 3: You're not. You're not going to. 227 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:50,680 Speaker 4: Identify a list of Vietcong, you know, capture and kill 228 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 4: all of them. 229 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 3: And then all of a sudden you just. 230 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 4: Have appliant Vietnamese population that is happy to you know, 231 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 4: live under whatever American puppet you put over there like that, 232 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 4: and they would keep putting up, you know, back in 233 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 4: during the Vietnam War, they kept putting up the casualty figures. Look, 234 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:12,439 Speaker 4: we just killed another ten thousand Vietnamese, and that would 235 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 4: be and victory is about to turn a corner. There's 236 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 4: a light at the end of the tunnel. They kept saying, 237 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 4: just to kill a few more. But if the if 238 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 4: the if the Gorilla army is an organic part of 239 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 4: the population, then you're not going to be able to 240 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 4: do that. And at the same time, critics of the 241 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 4: Palestinians who say, well, there are no civilians, like President 242 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 4: Herzog has said, there are no civilians, they all support Humas. 243 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 4: If that's true, then how are you going to up 244 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 4: group Hamas like you either believe. If you believe that, 245 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 4: then your strategy has to be to completely clear out 246 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 4: every Palestinian or your strategy will fail. And I think 247 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 4: that for a lot of that was their strategy. But 248 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 4: now they're running up against the international resistance to just 249 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 4: clearing out all the Palestinians. 250 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 5: And we're talking about tens of thousands of deaths based 251 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 5: on Estmens that we have right now. And still Hamas 252 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 5: now returning to northern Gaza and apparently operating or re 253 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:14,199 Speaker 5: establishing some of those operations that existed just a few months. 254 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 4: Ago while they're still waging their military campaign. This isn't 255 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 4: aname after they've kind of backed off. 256 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 3: Right, Well, I guess, I mean to some they have 257 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 3: backed off, but they haven't. They haven't ceased fire. 258 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 5: Yeah, let's look at Kamala Harris being pressed by Katie 259 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 5: Kirk on what we have been very clear is perhaps 260 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 5: the biggest problem with the United States involvement in this 261 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 5: conflict in terms of the philosophy, the kind of underlying 262 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 5: philosophy that the US is bringing to the conflict. Let's 263 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 5: roll this clip. 264 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:48,320 Speaker 6: We've been very clear humanitarian aid must flow from day one. 265 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 6: I will tell you one of my areas of priority 266 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 6: included let's think about the day after, because we must 267 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 6: stay focused on an eventual to a state solution. 268 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 10: Well, having said that, I want to tell you something 269 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 10: which I'm sure you're well aware of that BB Netanyahu, 270 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 10: Prime minister, who recently said he rejected US calls to 271 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:13,079 Speaker 10: scale back Israel's military action in the Gaza Strip or 272 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 10: to support a Palestinian state after the war. He even 273 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 10: said that Israel quote must have security control over the 274 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 10: entire territory west of the Jordan River, which includes Gaza. 275 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 10: So given those positions, how can you possibly come together? 276 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 10: How can the US and Israel come together to solve this? 277 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 10: And should aid to Israel be conditional? 278 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 6: So I'll start with the principles that we are applying 279 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 6: to this discussion, which we've been very clear with Israeli 280 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 6: government about one as it relates to the day after. 281 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 6: There should be no reoccupation of Gaza, there should be 282 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 6: no changing of the territorial boundaries of Gaza. That the 283 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 6: Palestinians are entitled to an equal measure with Israelis security 284 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 6: and prosperity. 285 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 10: Doesn't sound like vvt Ya who agrees with that. 286 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 6: We're the United States of America. I'm telling you our position, 287 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 6: and we take our role in this discussion very seriously. 288 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 5: There may be disagreements. 289 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 6: That doesn't mean we're going to change our mind. 290 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 10: So should AID that and Vice President be conditional? If 291 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 10: the Prime Minister of Israel is stating this, should that 292 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 10: AID not come if there's not that kind of flexibility 293 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 10: that you're seeking. 294 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 6: We are right now in a position of negotiating with 295 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 6: Congress to follow through on a commitment we made for AID, 296 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 6: and we are taking it one day at a time 297 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 6: in terms of what is happening in the region and 298 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 6: how we are addressing the issue. But that's where we 299 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 6: are right now. 300 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 10: So I don't feel like you really answered my question. Well, 301 00:15:58,240 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 10: but do you think it should be conditional? I know 302 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 10: you're carrying out that's not our position, right now not 303 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 10: right now. 304 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 4: It's like that confession was extracted through torture. Practically, just 305 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 4: say it. 306 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 5: You know, Kamala Harris is mad when she's laughing. 307 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 4: It was impressive though, the way that Katie Kirk there 308 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 4: just doesn't move on and just insists on getting an 309 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 4: actual answer out of her. Yeah, that was I thought 310 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 4: that was impressively done. And you know, especially after Kamala 311 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 4: Harris said, well, I think I've answered your question, It's like, did. 312 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 5: You I'm not quite sure Katie kurrk committing random acts 313 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 5: of journalism. 314 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 4: I'm quite sure that I heard an answer there, but 315 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 4: that but the substance of it is also so important. 316 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 4: There could not be bigger gap between the two positions 317 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 4: of Net Yahoos, which is, you know, Israel ought to 318 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 4: control have security control over everything from the Jordan River 319 00:16:55,840 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 4: to the Mediterranean Sea, and the American position that Israel 320 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 4: should not and that there should be a path toward 321 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 4: a two state solution. Right like that's now Net Yahoo's 322 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 4: is actually much more grounded in the reality of the 323 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 4: fact that there are seven hundred and fifty thousand Israeli 324 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:21,119 Speaker 4: settlers in the West Bank and that Israel is pursuing 325 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 4: control not just of the res crossing, but also of 326 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:27,680 Speaker 4: the Rafa crossing with Egypt. 327 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 3: They are gunning, They are trying to make that. 328 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 4: Reality, the kind of final reality on the ground, Like 329 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:38,920 Speaker 4: their vision is much closer to happening than our vision. 330 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 4: So in that sense, you know, you know, his posture 331 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:46,159 Speaker 4: is in the lead. But for years we've kind of 332 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 4: had to pretend that that's not really what he thinks, 333 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 4: and that there's actually a major constituency in Israel for 334 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:55,879 Speaker 4: a two state solution. 335 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 3: If we just continue to say that, if there is. 336 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:00,680 Speaker 5: Yea and if you've zoom out to thirty thousand feet 337 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,199 Speaker 5: and tried to explain the United States support for this 338 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,479 Speaker 5: war to people in another time or another era, they 339 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:10,880 Speaker 5: would say, oh, so you are aiding Israel and their 340 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 5: goals for Gaza, their goals for the territory. I mean, 341 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 5: that's the most common sense conclusion, is the most common 342 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 5: sense conclusion from a nation giving another nation billions of 343 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:27,959 Speaker 5: dollars to prosecute a war. But in fact we're on 344 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 5: vastly different pages about why the war is being or 345 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 5: we say we are, yeah, well yeah, I mean I 346 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:35,399 Speaker 5: think though that, I mean, Joe Biden's been a two 347 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,160 Speaker 5: State solution guy for decades. He's, you know, mister two 348 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 5: state solution. He walks around like mister two state solution. 349 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 5: And it's just an incredibly I think it's very frightening. 350 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:47,119 Speaker 5: We've talked about this a lot, but it's just the 351 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 5: fact that this isn't the conversation the media is pushing 352 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 5: every single day. And it took Katie Kirk like three 353 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 5: months to get Kamala Harris to confront that central tension 354 00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:58,440 Speaker 5: is pathetic. 355 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 4: Right, And the key thing is, Okay, what we say 356 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 4: doesn't mean much. What we do is what matters. There 357 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 4: was some leaked report in NBC News that Biden is 358 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 4: now considering you withholding some weapons in order to put 359 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 4: pressure on Israel, which flies in the face of all 360 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 4: these people you see saying, well, Biden can't do that. 361 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 3: And of course Biden can do that. 362 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:21,119 Speaker 5: But to do what and why? I mean, it's just 363 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 5: that's the question that Biden and Kamala Harris absolutely can't 364 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:27,199 Speaker 5: answer for Israel to defend itself. Okay, so again, to 365 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 5: what ends does that mean that Israel controls the entire 366 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:36,160 Speaker 5: area or what are your conditions actually aimed at achieving? 367 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 3: Right? 368 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 4: The way that people think about it here in the 369 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 4: US is that unconditional support for Israel empowers the right 370 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 4: wing because it allows the right wing to say, look, 371 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 4: we don't have to compromise at all with the Palestinians. 372 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 4: We can do the maximalist version of what we want 373 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 4: and the US will be behind us the entire time. 374 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 4: And that undercuts the Yesha Tid Party Benny Gantz, people 375 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 4: who in the past have not today, but in the 376 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 4: past have spoken favorably about a two state solution. They 377 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:14,159 Speaker 4: don't even talk about it anymore. But if the United 378 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 4: States came around and said, look, this is the deal, 379 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 4: like we're cutting off aid tomorrow unless you move forward 380 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 4: on an irrevocable path on a two state solution and 381 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 4: you cut a deal with Saudi Arabia, the UAE cutter 382 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 4: everybody else. 383 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 3: And you just have to do this. 384 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 4: That then empowers the political position inside Israel that says, look, 385 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 4: we don't have a choice, we have to do this. 386 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 4: That moves voters, it moves and it moves politicians. 387 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 3: That's the theory. 388 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:43,439 Speaker 4: What the theory so far has been held up by 389 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 4: reality because our unconditional support for Israel has only moved 390 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 4: the Israeli kind of political spectrum, you know, inexorably to 391 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:55,399 Speaker 4: the right over the last thirty years. 392 00:20:55,840 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 5: It makes it's more logically consistent to be a one 393 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 5: stater at this point, like NETANYAHUO, than to be whatever 394 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:04,360 Speaker 5: the hell Kama. 395 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 4: Who's like, Look, it's not going to happen. Let's just 396 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 4: give everyone equal rights and citizenship within the exact same 397 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 4: area that Nanna who just outlined. 398 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 5: It's a clear and consistent and like sort of coherent 399 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 5: internally coherent end goal. And that is not what we're 400 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 5: getting from this administration whatsoever. We don't have any clear 401 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 5: benchmark of what it means to eradicate Amas, and no 402 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 5: clear benchmark of what would happen after eradicating Amas. And 403 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 5: yet we're pouring so much money into this conflict that 404 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 5: is spilling so much blood. Again, just a scary place 405 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:36,159 Speaker 5: to be. 406 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 4: We're getting an absolute pressure cooker situation in the West Bank. 407 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:47,679 Speaker 4: Let's roll video here of this arraid of a hospital 408 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,159 Speaker 4: by Israeli assassins in Janine. 409 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:53,200 Speaker 3: So what you're seeing here. 410 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 4: Are is a group of Israeli commandos dressed up in 411 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:03,679 Speaker 4: medical garb, some of them dressed as women wearing a 412 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 4: job with silencers on their assault weapons, strolling through a hospital. 413 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 4: Now now now they're showing footage of the room where 414 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 4: they assassinated three Palestinians. There's a blood stained pillow where 415 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,920 Speaker 4: it seems that somebody was executed in their bed. 416 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 5: We were told they were sleeping when they were. 417 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:29,719 Speaker 4: And Israel has since said that one of them had 418 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,120 Speaker 4: a gun on them, but the hospital has said there 419 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 4: was no exchange of fire, so that the gun, the 420 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:38,119 Speaker 4: only guns that were fired came from the Israeli commandos. 421 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 11: There. 422 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,919 Speaker 4: One of the western outlets, I think it was the 423 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 4: BBC put put assassination in quotes and said that the 424 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 4: Palestinians you know, described this as an as a quote assassination. 425 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 4: In their next paragraph they mentioned that the commandos used silencers. 426 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 4: I think we can take the quotes off of assassination. 427 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 4: If you if you sneak up on somebody, uh and 428 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 4: and assassinate. 429 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 5: Them when the yes, all three of the people who 430 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 5: were killed have been claimed by terrorists has claimed. 431 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 4: One of them was apparently a spokesman for the for 432 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 4: A Hamas military wing and the other two were a commander. 433 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,639 Speaker 4: And yeah, right, these are all like these are like 434 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 4: there doesn't seem to be any question that these are 435 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,680 Speaker 4: Hamas figures. Doesn't also doesn't seem to be any question 436 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:25,160 Speaker 4: that they were in a hospital. 437 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:29,439 Speaker 5: Which is an assassination. That's it's an assassination. 438 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,679 Speaker 4: Israel has security control of the West Bank, like they 439 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:36,440 Speaker 4: occupy the West Bank. There was nothing stopping them from 440 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:38,879 Speaker 4: going in as a police force or even as a 441 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 4: military force in actual military gear. And you're even seeing 442 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 4: from Israeli politicians and others saying that that would have 443 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 4: been just from a tactical propaganda perspective, a savvier way 444 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:54,879 Speaker 4: to do it. You surround, and you surround them if 445 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 4: if there is if they fight back, a gunfighting you 446 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:03,639 Speaker 4: know happens in boom. Unfortunately, we had to kill these 447 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,639 Speaker 4: three militants, but to go in dressed as kind of 448 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:08,640 Speaker 4: nurses and doctors. 449 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 5: You can see them in this picture with Ben Givier. 450 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 5: By the way, we have next picture is Edmar Ben 451 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 5: Gavier posing with some of the people that were part 452 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,159 Speaker 5: of this operation that you just saw on the video. 453 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,920 Speaker 4: Yes, there and they have changed back into some type 454 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 4: of commando garb. 455 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 3: There no longer dressed in their kind of medical gear. 456 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:33,040 Speaker 4: But yeah, when the when Israel has been spending so 457 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 4: much time, you know, accusing Hamas of embedding itself with 458 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 4: civilians for them to kind of disguise themselves as civilians 459 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 4: and go into a hospital that's under their control in 460 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:47,880 Speaker 4: the West Bank. 461 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 3: With as I said, the. 462 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 4: West Bank currently has a pressure cooker situation because workers 463 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 4: are not allowed to go from the West Bank into Israel. 464 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 4: Not only is that hurting the Israeli economy, Israel under 465 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 4: Van Gavier's actually under Smotrich's direction, has seized all of 466 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,160 Speaker 4: the funds that belong to the Palestinian authority to pay 467 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 4: unemployment benefits. So people are you know, suffering financially badly 468 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 4: in the West Bank. You're seeing a lot of Palestinians 469 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 4: getting killed in the West Bank. Beyond this, this type 470 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,880 Speaker 4: of situation, so you can only imagine, you know, where 471 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 4: this is headed. There doesn't seem to be any effort 472 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:31,120 Speaker 4: to try to find any peaceful resolution any way out 473 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 4: of this. It just seems to be an endless ratcheting 474 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 4: up of tensions. 475 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 5: From the propaganda point of view, I think, you know, 476 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 5: Israel can make the case that here you have a 477 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 5: very clear cut example of militants being embedded with the 478 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 5: civilian population. Their soldiers going in and having this precision 479 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:56,119 Speaker 5: strike on three guys with no civilian casualties that we 480 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,879 Speaker 5: know of yet, and then you know, and no casual 481 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 5: to their own troops. I mean, I think there's a 482 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 5: case actually that is sort of flipping what we were 483 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 5: just talking about and saying if. 484 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,160 Speaker 4: They hadn't dressed up as nurses and doctors, I think 485 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 4: they'd be in a little stronger position. 486 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 5: I mean, but from their point of view, they can 487 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 5: say it was a successful mission with casualties. 488 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 3: Only for the killed three people, yeah. 489 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 5: Who were terrorists embedded in the hospital. 490 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 3: The State Department was pressed on this yesterday. Let's roll 491 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 3: some of. 492 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,919 Speaker 12: That something that you think is problematic or is it 493 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,200 Speaker 12: something that you look at with envy, like this is 494 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,399 Speaker 12: some kind of great mission, impossible mission that we wish 495 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 12: that we could also do. 496 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 13: So I'd say that we strongly urge caution whenever operations 497 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 13: have the potential to impact civilians and civilian installations that 498 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 13: of course includes hospitals. We do recognize the very real 499 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 13: security challenges Israel faces and it's legitimate right to defend 500 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,439 Speaker 13: its people and its territory from terrorism. Israel of course 501 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 13: has the right to carry out operations to bring terrorists 502 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 13: to justice, but those operations need to be conducted in 503 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 13: full compliance with international humanitarian laws. 504 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 12: Well, do those operations include going into hospitals and murdering 505 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,640 Speaker 12: people in their in their beds, regardless of whether they're 506 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:14,640 Speaker 12: so you know that they are suspected or so even 507 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,120 Speaker 12: known pariss So okay. 508 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:20,879 Speaker 13: So there was a lot in the premise of that question. 509 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 13: Obviously they we do know that they went into Well you. 510 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,360 Speaker 12: Do think, well, I went in and killed the complete 511 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,359 Speaker 12: people who were completely innocent. So let me say that 512 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,400 Speaker 12: this did think that, then you would be condemning it, right, 513 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 12: We certainly would. 514 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,200 Speaker 13: But I would say that Israel has said that these 515 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 13: were Hamas operatives. They have said that one of them 516 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,200 Speaker 13: was carrying a gun at the time of the operation. 517 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 13: So I'm not able to speak to the facts of 518 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:45,920 Speaker 13: the operation. You'd have to to pass some kind of 519 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,400 Speaker 13: legal judgment know all of the facts of the operation. 520 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:49,400 Speaker 5: But as a. 521 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 13: General matter, they do have the right to carry out 522 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 13: operations to bring terrorists to justice, but they need to 523 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,880 Speaker 13: be conducted in the hospital. So we want them to 524 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:02,160 Speaker 13: conduct their operation in compliance of their national humanitarian law. 525 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:04,879 Speaker 13: We would generally say that we don't want them to 526 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:09,399 Speaker 13: carry out operations in hospitals, but under international humanitarian law, 527 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 13: hospitals do lose some of their protections if they are 528 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,240 Speaker 13: being used for the planning of terrorist operations, for the 529 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 13: execution of tariffs. 530 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 12: Now, hospitals the actual hospital building does, but I mean 531 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 12: going in disguised as you know, women and doctors and 532 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:28,199 Speaker 12: whatever is something different. And then going in and picking 533 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:34,160 Speaker 12: out people in particular rooms beds and killing them seems 534 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 12: to be something different. 535 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 5: There's a great line of questioning that pushes the State 536 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 5: Department for consistency on this question of the rules based 537 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 5: order essentially, and you know the hospital thing. Brian, can 538 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 5: you explain or go into a little bit more about 539 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 5: the rules based order that the United States and Israel 540 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 5: are sort of talking about all of the time as 541 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,960 Speaker 5: it applies to Hamas and as it applies to operations 542 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 5: in Palestine elsewhere where is this or what is that context? 543 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 4: On the other end, Yeah, the AMAS is a gorilla army, 544 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 4: and so Azol is routinely accusing it of embedding itself 545 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 4: among a civilian population, which was the case here. Including 546 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 4: it's an interesting question if a terrorist is going for 547 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 4: treatment at a hospital. Does that count as kind of 548 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 4: hiding among the civilian population or does that count as 549 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 4: like they needed treatment? 550 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 5: Yeah, I suppose. We don't know exactly what the case is. 551 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 5: We don't know exactly what they were doing. 552 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:44,479 Speaker 3: We can we can tell that one of them was 553 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 3: lying on the bed because in the hospital the blood, 554 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 3: the blood stain and the bullet hole goes right through 555 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 3: the pillow. So somebody was hurt enough that they're in 556 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 3: bed getting treatment. 557 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 4: And it has been said that they were getting treatment 558 00:29:57,720 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 4: and that's how they knew that they were in there. 559 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:05,960 Speaker 4: So Alon Levy, who's the spokes Israeli spokesperson, was in 560 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 4: a Twitter fight with Jannis Vera Faucus, who is the 561 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 4: former Greek Foreign foreign Greek Finance minister, who was accusing 562 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 4: him of breaking the breaking the rule of law. Vera 563 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 4: Faccus said, here's the latest incident. Israeli undercover soldiers agents 564 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 4: entered Janine hospital this morning and shot dead three injured 565 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 4: Palestinians in their hospital beds while being treated rule of law, 566 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 4: western style. Want to talk about terrorism, Alon Levy responded, 567 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 4: Israel eliminated three terrorists trying to hide in the hospital 568 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 4: and then dug up their ancestors in. 569 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 3: A weird way. He says. I bet when this man's 570 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 3: ancestors accused Jews of the original medieval blood libels, they 571 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 3: also felt similarly smug and morally superior. 572 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 4: But at least their excuse was that they were illiterate 573 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 4: speaking of propaganda battles. I don't see who he's winning 574 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 4: over there. 575 00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, no, I don't. I don't either. And you know, 576 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 5: this is again it reminds me of what we were 577 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 5: just talking about with Kamala, Harris and Biden versus like 578 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 5: net and Yahoo, where if you have a problem, as 579 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 5: the United States, like if if you have a problem 580 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 5: with the rule of law, the rule based international order, 581 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 5: say that, don't pretend to be upholding the rules based 582 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 5: order when you can't answer questions, which was the case 583 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 5: with Matt Miller there. I mean, it just it would 584 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 5: make so much more sense to say, well, we think 585 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 5: that this particular rule against war crimes is wrong, that 586 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 5: this doesn't make sense. It's impossible when you're fighting a 587 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 5: gorilla operation, as you were saying, right, that's way more 588 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 5: morally consistent than treating yourselves or you know, conducting yourselves 589 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 5: in a way in one way and then having your 590 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 5: propaganda battle be all about rules based international order. When 591 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 5: you get into a sort of conversation like that and 592 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 5: don't have clear answers the again, the you know, honesty 593 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 5: and war. These are questions that you know, have have 594 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 5: puzzled people for time and memorial but in this case, 595 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 5: it's just very grating to hear the constant, you know, 596 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 5: propaganda about the rules based internback international order. 597 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 4: And to follow up on a story that we covered 598 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 4: last week, Israel was under fire for desecration of cemeteries 599 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 4: across across Gaza. Their initial rationale, they said, for desecorating 600 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 4: these cemeteries, was that they were trying to dig up 601 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 4: graves and find the remains of hostages. The new explanation 602 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:41,239 Speaker 4: that they have is that there were actually tunnels that 603 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,960 Speaker 4: underneath these cemeteries that they were working to destroy. There 604 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 4: was a CNN was the one that the Western media, 605 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 4: American media that exposed this last week, because there was 606 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 4: a CNN embed as they were with them as they 607 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:57,480 Speaker 4: were destroying all these cemeteries. Now they're following up again 608 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 4: and there's a a fascinating story from CNN and watch 609 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 4: to the end of it. 610 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:04,880 Speaker 3: Here, let's roll that. 611 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 11: We're asking the general if we can actually see the 612 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 11: shaft to the tunnel, but the answer is no. 613 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 3: So there's all kinds of. 614 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 9: The machinery which I want you to. 615 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 3: Just to take pictures of the security, Mark Forcemith. 616 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 11: What about if we don't film it, we just look 617 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 11: with our eyes and when you might fall in all 618 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 11: think and collapse. 619 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 2: Well, you have to walk to the edge. 620 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 11: The edge is not secured, can collapse this machinery. 621 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 5: So on, that's not something I'm going to take a 622 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 5: risk on. Sorry. 623 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 11: The Israeli military later provided this drone footage showing the 624 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:42,760 Speaker 11: tunnel shaft we entered and another one nearby. CNN geolocated 625 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,400 Speaker 11: the footage using this satellite image. This outline shows where 626 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 11: the Cemetery one stood, and these are the two tunnel entrances, 627 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 11: clearly outside the graveyard. As for the tunnel, they say 628 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 11: they found here where the Cemetery one stood. The military 629 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:00,280 Speaker 11: never provided any evident. 630 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 4: And so yeah, if you're watching it, it's if you're 631 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 4: listening to it rather than watching it. Yeah, the images 632 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:09,400 Speaker 4: were outside of the cemetery. And you know, good for CNN. 633 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,440 Speaker 4: For usually CNN there would say CNN could not independently 634 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:18,720 Speaker 4: verify the Israeli officials claim. Here they said they provided 635 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,799 Speaker 4: no evidence, while also showing that the evidence they did 636 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 4: provide was a lie that it was outside the cemetery. 637 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 4: I would say that this is suggestive of the Western 638 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 4: media taking a little bit of a turn. But in fact, 639 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:34,640 Speaker 4: the Western media has spent the last several days just 640 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:38,719 Speaker 4: talking about, you know, the the twelve alleged Hamas terrorists 641 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:40,880 Speaker 4: or ten of them Hamas, one is Lamichi had one 642 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 4: apparently a civilian that ran over who worked for UNRWA, 643 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,520 Speaker 4: and which which has led to the pausing of funding 644 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 4: by the US and like a dozen other countries to the. 645 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:52,480 Speaker 5: LEGI agency, the leaked messages from on. 646 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:54,239 Speaker 3: Which we'll talk about in a minute. 647 00:34:54,320 --> 00:35:01,880 Speaker 5: Yeah, right. The Intercept has some excellent reporting on internal 648 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,799 Speaker 5: turmoil at the New York Times over an episode of 649 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,320 Speaker 5: their extremely popular podcast The Daily, which is a source 650 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,759 Speaker 5: of news for people around the country, a primary source 651 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 5: of news actually for people around the country. Also Airson NPR. Now, 652 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,439 Speaker 5: Ryan tell us a little bit about what you guys 653 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 5: found when you looked into these internal conversations at the 654 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 5: New York Times. Yeah. 655 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:23,799 Speaker 4: I think the context here is that The New York 656 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 4: Times has been so successful at navigating the transition to 657 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,640 Speaker 4: digital media, and so much of the rest of the 658 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:34,719 Speaker 4: mainstream media has been so bad at navigating that transition 659 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 4: that The Times now has almost a dangerous concentration of 660 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:43,440 Speaker 4: power among kind of liberal audiences. A major story in 661 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:47,200 Speaker 4: the New York Times and an episode of the Daily 662 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:51,959 Speaker 4: can by itself establish a narrative. It doesn't even need 663 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 4: what the New York Times also has, which is a 664 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:57,520 Speaker 4: megaphone capacity where they do reporting and then it's picked 665 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 4: up on by CNN and MSNBC, ABC News the rest 666 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,000 Speaker 4: of it, and so it disseminates that way just on 667 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,719 Speaker 4: its own. It now has the capacity to kind of 668 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:12,759 Speaker 4: shape millions of people's understanding of how they ought to 669 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 4: think about the world and what they understand has happened, 670 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 4: and oftentimes based on the reporting that we've done about 671 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:23,480 Speaker 4: the New York Times newsroom, this massive world changing decisions 672 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:29,200 Speaker 4: are made in seconds by kind of mid level editors 673 00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 4: just plucking something off of the New York Times internal slack, 674 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,359 Speaker 4: turning it into a headline that then becomes a controversy. 675 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,279 Speaker 3: For l three days. It's like, why the re order 676 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 3: put this in slack? I grabbed it and made it 677 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 3: a headline why is the world kind of freaking out? 678 00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:43,640 Speaker 3: And so. 679 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 4: The piece that we have up in the intercept that 680 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,440 Speaker 4: I did with my colleague Daniel Boguslaw, which you can 681 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 4: put up here, is about how The Times at the 682 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 4: end of December did a major piece called Screams Without 683 00:36:56,239 --> 00:37:01,160 Speaker 4: Words about about Hamas using secon violence as a as 684 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:05,799 Speaker 4: a weapon of war on October seventh, systematically using it. 685 00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 4: Inside the New York Times, a ton of reporters and 686 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 4: editors kind of pushed back and said, you have to 687 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,520 Speaker 4: be very careful with this story because it does not 688 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,440 Speaker 4: seem to stand up its main claim. Was there sexual 689 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:25,279 Speaker 4: violence on October seventh? Absolutely can you can you claim 690 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,600 Speaker 4: that it was systematic and perpetuated by Hamas deliberately based 691 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,759 Speaker 4: on what is in this reporting, And a lot of 692 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:35,799 Speaker 4: reporters anders are pushing back saying, no, you can't, you 693 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:36,920 Speaker 4: can't make those And. 694 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,160 Speaker 5: That's really interesting that you have the reporters and the 695 00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:41,800 Speaker 5: editors at the New York Times pushing back. 696 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:46,240 Speaker 4: Onwards, and the reporters are themselves saying that they're confident 697 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,880 Speaker 4: that there was sexual violence, yes, but they're saying this 698 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,800 Speaker 4: story itself does not stand up for a variety of 699 00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,160 Speaker 4: different reasons that are out there publicly. 700 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:57,719 Speaker 5: And The Times was promoting this story. I mean, this 701 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,680 Speaker 5: was a big spread, This was a huge story for them, 702 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,040 Speaker 5: and it makes sense then they wanted to jump into 703 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,520 Speaker 5: The Daily, that they wanted to take it and feature 704 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,880 Speaker 5: it as a center for an episode of The Daily, 705 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:14,440 Speaker 5: and that's where the staff pushback became untenable. According to 706 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:15,400 Speaker 5: your reporting here right. 707 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:18,680 Speaker 4: Right, it was scheduled to air in early January, about 708 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:22,520 Speaker 4: a week and a half after after the original story 709 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:27,000 Speaker 4: came out, but under pressure, producers and fact checkers with 710 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:31,080 Speaker 4: The Daily started looking closer at the story and they 711 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,200 Speaker 4: put it on ice. And we're now into you know, 712 00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:37,480 Speaker 4: tomorrow will be February, and it hasn't run yet, and 713 00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 4: we may still we may still see an episode of it. 714 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,839 Speaker 4: But what we learned was that the original script, which 715 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:47,360 Speaker 4: chewed very closely to the original New York Times story, 716 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:51,279 Speaker 4: which had a lot of certainty, and was sourced to 717 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:54,040 Speaker 4: a lot of people, you know, who have changed their 718 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,680 Speaker 4: stories and have said like just completely wild things that 719 00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:59,160 Speaker 4: have been you know, publicly discredited. 720 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:03,239 Speaker 3: Like one person I think said that there was that they. 721 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,480 Speaker 4: Found a pregnant woman who'd had a like a fetus 722 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:10,800 Speaker 4: cut out of her, and Israeli government itself like defunked 723 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,399 Speaker 4: a lot of these claims. So the same people who 724 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,239 Speaker 4: the Israeli government have backed away from were like the 725 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,279 Speaker 4: names were a lot of name sources for The New 726 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:18,920 Speaker 4: York Times here. 727 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:20,480 Speaker 5: So and what was a problem for the story in 728 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,440 Speaker 5: particular is when one of the family members I spoke 729 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:24,600 Speaker 5: to The New York that was a problem. 730 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,040 Speaker 3: A family member came out publicly. 731 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,200 Speaker 5: Said that this reporter would you guys get into Joe 732 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,840 Speaker 5: Cohn and his background as sort of an advocate for 733 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:37,120 Speaker 5: the state of Israel politically his father as well, which 734 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:39,239 Speaker 5: is very interesting context. I think doesn't mean that his 735 00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:41,919 Speaker 5: reporting can't be completely accurate and honest, but it does 736 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:46,120 Speaker 5: add some context here to what happened. But when you 737 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,239 Speaker 5: have a family member saying that's not what I thought 738 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 5: I was telling the reporter, it was pretty devastating for 739 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:51,880 Speaker 5: the story itself. 740 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 4: Yes, and and other issues that have been raised elsewhere, 741 00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:59,719 Speaker 4: And so the Daily wrote a newscript which was much 742 00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:02,200 Speaker 4: more kind of open ended and asking questions and was 743 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,440 Speaker 4: what from people that I've spoken with were familiar with 744 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,680 Speaker 4: a much more responsible piece of journalism and approach the 745 00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:11,440 Speaker 4: approach the issue in a much more sensitive way, but 746 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:13,799 Speaker 4: that hasn't aired yet, And because The Times is in 747 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,400 Speaker 4: a bit of a jam because if they run the 748 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:20,480 Speaker 4: original one, the original script, then they're kind of republishing 749 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:24,759 Speaker 4: a lot of errors that have since been exposed. If 750 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:28,320 Speaker 4: they run a more circumspect, kind of dialed down, responsible version, 751 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:32,040 Speaker 4: that raises all of these questions, it's a concession about, well, 752 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,720 Speaker 4: why haven't you corrected the original one? Are you backing 753 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:38,399 Speaker 4: off of the original one. So for the reporters involved here, 754 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:40,120 Speaker 4: the only way out is through, and so they were 755 00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:45,400 Speaker 4: assigned a news story that came out earlier earlier this week, 756 00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:48,000 Speaker 4: one of the most bizarre pieces I've seen in the 757 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:51,520 Speaker 4: New York Times, because the headline was about the United 758 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:59,440 Speaker 4: Nations sending investigators over to Israel to examine atrocity allegations. 759 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,760 Speaker 4: But after just a couple of paragraphs, it turns into 760 00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:06,640 Speaker 4: kind of a re reporting and an interrogation of the 761 00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:10,680 Speaker 4: original story. Yet it was written by the same reporters. 762 00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,840 Speaker 4: I've never seen kind of a group of reporters assigned 763 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:19,280 Speaker 4: to go kind of question their own reporting, and unsurprisingly, 764 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,200 Speaker 4: they checked their own work and found it to be solid, 765 00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,800 Speaker 4: although one of their sources won't talk to them anymore. 766 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:29,120 Speaker 4: It's a fascinating piece. People can people can check it out, 767 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:33,960 Speaker 4: but it shows it just is a glimpse into the 768 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:39,160 Speaker 4: kind of war over the messaging related to this, related 769 00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:41,319 Speaker 4: to this conflict, because you know, so much of the 770 00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:49,200 Speaker 4: justification for the ongoing onslaught is rooted on the barbarity 771 00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 4: of October seventh, and it's it feels like the actual 772 00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:59,560 Speaker 4: barbarity that was on display for everyone to see didn't 773 00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:01,799 Speaker 4: seem to be enough for some propagandas that they had 774 00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,280 Speaker 4: to like ratchet it up, and you start seeing things 775 00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:08,200 Speaker 4: like forty beheaded babies and on and on. 776 00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,799 Speaker 3: The things that are just were not true. But by 777 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:12,520 Speaker 3: the time we realize that they're not. 778 00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:17,720 Speaker 4: True, tens of thousands of Palestinians have been killed based 779 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:22,160 Speaker 4: on justifying their killing based on things that we've then 780 00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,400 Speaker 4: learned didn't happen. 781 00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:28,239 Speaker 5: So this next element involves the Wall Street Journal. We'll 782 00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:30,960 Speaker 5: put this up on the screen. It's a So this 783 00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:33,320 Speaker 5: is the Wall Street Journal. Intelligence reveals details of you 784 00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:36,160 Speaker 5: and agency staff's links to October seventh. The subhead is 785 00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,520 Speaker 5: around ten percent of Palestinian aid agencies. Twelve thousand staff 786 00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,879 Speaker 5: in Gaza have links to militants, according to an intelligence DOS. 787 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,680 Speaker 5: This next part of the element you can see is 788 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,520 Speaker 5: on the right side of the screen. That's the author 789 00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:55,040 Speaker 5: of the story. Who is again, this is the author 790 00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:58,600 Speaker 5: of the story served in the IDF. So you can 791 00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:02,960 Speaker 5: understand the intelligen dossier finding its way to a former 792 00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,880 Speaker 5: IDF member who's writing for the Wall Street Journal. Ryan 793 00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:08,400 Speaker 5: Again helpful context. 794 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,560 Speaker 4: I think it's interesting if you try to imagine that 795 00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:13,839 Speaker 4: you're a Palestinian reading the Western press. 796 00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:15,520 Speaker 5: And you're like, what the hell is and it's just. 797 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,400 Speaker 4: You see all of these people who served in the 798 00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:22,480 Speaker 4: IDF or whose children are currently serving in the in 799 00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:26,120 Speaker 4: the IDF doing the reporting. It's not like you can 800 00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:29,920 Speaker 4: only imagine if there were a reverse situation like you 801 00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:33,040 Speaker 4: simply can actually you simply cannot imagine if there was 802 00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:34,000 Speaker 4: a reverse. 803 00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:38,160 Speaker 5: Well, the allegations of some especially like freelancers who got 804 00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:40,640 Speaker 5: you know, early reporting footage. 805 00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,440 Speaker 4: Yes, that's that's a very good point. And Israel said 806 00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:47,680 Speaker 4: they were going to kill those people, yes, yes, right right, 807 00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:51,719 Speaker 4: because they were journalists who were photographing. October seventh, there 808 00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:52,000 Speaker 4: were a. 809 00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:54,719 Speaker 5: Couple of allegations that did seem like the journalists, in 810 00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:57,440 Speaker 5: the interest of access, it would be the most charitable 811 00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:01,400 Speaker 5: version of that argument, did have links to Hamas. And again, 812 00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:04,640 Speaker 5: this is the entire conversation we have about the intertwinement 813 00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:08,080 Speaker 5: of the civilian population and the military population in a 814 00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:11,319 Speaker 5: tiny swath of land like Gaza that creates very real 815 00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:17,239 Speaker 5: challenges for Israel morally and creates like a really difficult situation. 816 00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:19,960 Speaker 5: And that's no excuse. I don't say that as an 817 00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,880 Speaker 5: excuse whatsoever. I'm just saying this situation on the ground 818 00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:25,680 Speaker 5: is not like in other wars. It's not the same thing. 819 00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:29,200 Speaker 5: It's a different thing. And that's something that you know, 820 00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:34,680 Speaker 5: with this media coverage, it's tough because it's again I 821 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:38,680 Speaker 5: think people with biases can do perfectly good reporting. Sure 822 00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:43,280 Speaker 5: what we see I guess, but what we see happening 823 00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:47,759 Speaker 5: is people being really cagey about their biases. And I 824 00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,680 Speaker 5: think that's a huge problem when you're and I'm sure 825 00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:52,480 Speaker 5: we agree on that point that when you're not upfront 826 00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:55,080 Speaker 5: and open about the fact that you served in the 827 00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:59,160 Speaker 5: idea of you are totally prosionist, you are all of 828 00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:03,200 Speaker 5: these different things. Fine, but being open about that I 829 00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:07,160 Speaker 5: think would help people say, oh, this intelligence dossier you're 830 00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:10,560 Speaker 5: reporting on, and I think UNRAWA does have really real problems. 831 00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:13,240 Speaker 5: Put this Jeremy Skalhale tweet up on the screen as well. 832 00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:16,600 Speaker 5: In the same way I was just talking about. This 833 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:20,000 Speaker 5: is Jeremy Scahill saying, incredible quote. We haven't had the 834 00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:22,960 Speaker 5: ability to investigate the allegations ourselves. Secretary of State Anthony 835 00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:27,120 Speaker 5: Blncoln seaid of Israel's charges against UNROWA employees. Blincoln then ads, 836 00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:30,439 Speaker 5: but they're highly highly credible. That I imagine is about 837 00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,560 Speaker 5: the dossier specifically, but in general. There was also reports 838 00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:40,640 Speaker 5: from an open Israeli advocacy group, un Watch, that leaked 839 00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:44,840 Speaker 5: a bunch of messages from unrwall workers after October seventh, 840 00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:48,719 Speaker 5: seeming to celebrate what happened. And again, this is what 841 00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:52,600 Speaker 5: we're talking about the challenges of having Western media with 842 00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:54,400 Speaker 5: a lot of people who maybe fought in the IDF, 843 00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,040 Speaker 5: whose parents fought in the IDF, and then having the 844 00:45:57,080 --> 00:46:01,400 Speaker 5: task of reporting on all of this. It's just a 845 00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:02,520 Speaker 5: completely different situation. 846 00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:07,400 Speaker 4: Yes, and the ten percent figure I think should be 847 00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:09,040 Speaker 4: taken with a grain of salt there where they say 848 00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,360 Speaker 4: that ten percent of connections to militants that's in the 849 00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:15,640 Speaker 4: subhead in the actual article says connections to either the 850 00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:19,920 Speaker 4: political or social wing or Hamas is you know, the 851 00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:23,080 Speaker 4: de facto government of Gaza. 852 00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:27,759 Speaker 3: And so I think fifteen percent of the population is 853 00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:28,600 Speaker 3: like an actual member. 854 00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:32,120 Speaker 5: So how I mean sounds like a vast undercount any 855 00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:32,680 Speaker 5: would you. 856 00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:33,759 Speaker 3: Would think it might be. 857 00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:36,960 Speaker 4: And then they say that they have a close half, 858 00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:40,800 Speaker 4: have a close relative or something that's involved with Hamas. 859 00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:44,480 Speaker 4: Most most people have hundreds of relatives because the birth 860 00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:46,919 Speaker 4: rates there are through the roof and people can't leave. 861 00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:51,600 Speaker 4: So within just two generations, yes, you've got three hundred 862 00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:55,400 Speaker 4: cousins living in the same neighborhood if one of them 863 00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:58,800 Speaker 4: is involved with Hamas, which is the government of the area. 864 00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:03,160 Speaker 4: Then boom of the thirteen thousand or so employees inside 865 00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:06,120 Speaker 4: Gaza of UNRA and you hit a number like that. 866 00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:08,960 Speaker 5: Which makes it really hard again to prosecute a war 867 00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:12,960 Speaker 5: while talking about the rules based international order and then 868 00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:16,759 Speaker 5: having this massive level of civilian and military entwinement, as 869 00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:23,760 Speaker 5: these stories do straight without committing some really egregious violations. 870 00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:29,120 Speaker 4: And it also shows why Israel made a mistake by 871 00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:34,719 Speaker 4: propping up Hamas absolutely that Israel allows you know, insisted 872 00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:38,600 Speaker 4: actually that that cutter continued to prop up Amas so 873 00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,759 Speaker 4: that they would not have a partner for peace. They 874 00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:44,680 Speaker 4: wanted to divide that NAYAHUO was very clear about this. 875 00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:47,480 Speaker 4: They wanted to divide the Palestinians between the Palestinian authority 876 00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:51,200 Speaker 4: in the West Bank, Hamas running Gaza forty chess because 877 00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:54,640 Speaker 4: then Netnyahu would not be under any pressure to negotiate 878 00:47:55,239 --> 00:48:01,080 Speaker 4: with Palestinians towards statehood, because Hamas doesn't want to negotiate 879 00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:01,960 Speaker 4: towards statehood. 880 00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:03,439 Speaker 3: So they both had. 881 00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:05,600 Speaker 4: An incentive to keep each other in power. And one 882 00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:09,560 Speaker 4: thing that frustrates me about some on the on the 883 00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:12,320 Speaker 4: left and in the supporters of the resistance who say, 884 00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:17,919 Speaker 4: who are supportive of not necessarily Hamas, but like you'll 885 00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:21,680 Speaker 4: find them defensive about Jimas, like why are you defending 886 00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:25,880 Speaker 4: an organization that net Yahoo wants in power? Come on, 887 00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:31,600 Speaker 4: why are you being being a sucker for net Yahu here? Yeah, 888 00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:34,200 Speaker 4: it's also take ya who had his word, like they 889 00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:39,319 Speaker 4: are an obstacle to a to uh dignity and and 890 00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:41,480 Speaker 4: to like a resolution of this conflict and. 891 00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:43,320 Speaker 5: Take Palestinians at their word, because a whole lot of 892 00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:46,920 Speaker 5: Palaestinians hold that exact same perspective and say, yeah, yeah, 893 00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:49,440 Speaker 5: who's right. Hamas is an obstacle uh to. 894 00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:52,200 Speaker 4: And but if you back Palestinians into a corner and 895 00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:54,279 Speaker 4: don't give them any other options, then they're like, well, 896 00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:57,200 Speaker 4: this this is what we've got. We've tried thirty years 897 00:48:57,239 --> 00:49:01,840 Speaker 4: the peace process, and every single year can editions materially 898 00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:02,880 Speaker 4: and civilly got worse. 899 00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:06,000 Speaker 5: The underlying tension we talked about earlier in the show, 900 00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:08,960 Speaker 5: where you have the United States and Israel on vastly 901 00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:11,120 Speaker 5: different pages about a one state solution or two state 902 00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:15,480 Speaker 5: solution while spending from the US perspective billions every year 903 00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:19,720 Speaker 5: in this region and now so much more on the line. 904 00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:23,440 Speaker 5: It is just a quagmire. There's no other way to 905 00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:26,239 Speaker 5: put it. And there's basically no light at the end 906 00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:31,520 Speaker 5: of that tunnel. Let's move on to the squad, Ryan, 907 00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:35,600 Speaker 5: because this is in some ways a more interesting, not 908 00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:38,480 Speaker 5: more interesting, a more a lighter story because we have 909 00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:43,759 Speaker 5: poetry from Jamal Bowman involved, we have mistranslations involved, and 910 00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:50,520 Speaker 5: we have I guess security turned husbands involved in the likelihood. Ryan, 911 00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:51,680 Speaker 5: what is the name of your book. 912 00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:54,080 Speaker 4: By the way, the book is called The Squad, and 913 00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:56,560 Speaker 4: it's going to need the paperback version is going to 914 00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:59,839 Speaker 4: need another chapter for everything we're seeing just this week. 915 00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:00,279 Speaker 14: Yeah. 916 00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:01,920 Speaker 3: The context, of course. 917 00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:06,440 Speaker 4: Is that you know, Apak is putting together an unprecedented 918 00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:10,520 Speaker 4: level of spending to try to wipe out the Squad 919 00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:15,879 Speaker 4: in Congress. Meanwhile, they're facing a cascading number of their 920 00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:19,799 Speaker 4: own scandals that we will talk about Corey Bush, Jamal Bowman, 921 00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:21,600 Speaker 4: and Ilhan Omar in this segment. 922 00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:23,719 Speaker 3: Let's start with Corey Bush. 923 00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:28,879 Speaker 4: It was reported yesterday that she's under DJ investigation over 924 00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:34,240 Speaker 4: her campaign spending on security. After the news was broken 925 00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:37,920 Speaker 4: by a punch bowl, she came out and acknowledged that 926 00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:42,399 Speaker 4: the investigation is happening and said that she will be 927 00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:44,560 Speaker 4: found to have done nothing wrong. 928 00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:46,600 Speaker 3: Let's roll a little bit of Corey Bush here. 929 00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:51,040 Speaker 15: I hold myself, my campaign, and my position to the 930 00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:55,359 Speaker 15: highest levels of integrity. I also believe in transparency, which 931 00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:58,800 Speaker 15: is why I can confirm that the Department of Justice 932 00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:01,440 Speaker 15: is reviewing my can spending. 933 00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:02,840 Speaker 5: On security services. 934 00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:07,759 Speaker 15: We are fully cooperating with this investigation, and I would 935 00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:10,719 Speaker 15: like to take this opportunity to outline the facts and 936 00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:14,759 Speaker 15: the truth. Since before I was sworn into office, I 937 00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:18,360 Speaker 15: have endured relentless threats to my physical safety and life. 938 00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:20,680 Speaker 15: As a rank and file member of Congress, I am 939 00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:24,800 Speaker 15: not entitled to personal protection by the House, and instead 940 00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:29,960 Speaker 15: have used campaign funds as permissible to retain security services. 941 00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:32,400 Speaker 5: I have not used any federal. 942 00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:35,880 Speaker 15: Tax dollars for personal security services. Any reporting that I 943 00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:40,800 Speaker 15: have used funds for personal security personal security is simply false. 944 00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:48,440 Speaker 15: In recent months, right wing organizations have lodged baseless complaints 945 00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:52,480 Speaker 15: against me, peddling notions that I have misused campaign funds 946 00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:54,640 Speaker 15: to pay for personal security services. 947 00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:56,680 Speaker 5: That simply is not true. 948 00:51:56,760 --> 00:52:00,160 Speaker 4: So, Emily, what's the best case that you've seen in 949 00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:02,919 Speaker 4: in the right wing press kind of against her at. 950 00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:06,640 Speaker 5: This point, Well, it does look like there was. So 951 00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:08,200 Speaker 5: this can go in a couple of different ways. So 952 00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:10,360 Speaker 5: from her perspective, she can say I need to spend 953 00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:14,239 Speaker 5: a lot of money on security. She had a security 954 00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:18,719 Speaker 5: guard who turned into her husband, who she says was 955 00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:22,840 Speaker 5: making fair market rate, and you know, it looks. 956 00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:25,520 Speaker 4: Like, sureity's expensive, so it's probably gonna be eye popping number. 957 00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:27,799 Speaker 5: But go ahead, Yeah, so's she spends more than other 958 00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:31,200 Speaker 5: people do on security. And okay, but she can make 959 00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:33,360 Speaker 5: the point that she's a member of the squad. The 960 00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:37,359 Speaker 5: squad is very high profile, and that necessarily means she's 961 00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:41,000 Speaker 5: probably going to be spending more money on security than 962 00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:44,040 Speaker 5: other You're sort of running the mill member of Congress 963 00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:46,440 Speaker 5: for being a member of the squad who has, you know, 964 00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:51,479 Speaker 5: sort of an ideological and ideologically high profile departure from 965 00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:54,719 Speaker 5: the political establishment in Washington, d C. So you can 966 00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:57,240 Speaker 5: see how that argument and of itself, you know, isn't 967 00:52:57,440 --> 00:52:59,880 Speaker 5: can go both ways. You know, she's she's spending a 968 00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:03,680 Speaker 5: lot of money on security. Maybe it's because she was 969 00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:07,200 Speaker 5: involved with her husband and paying him more than fair 970 00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:10,160 Speaker 5: market rate. We'll see. I mean, that's what they're investigating. 971 00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:14,640 Speaker 5: I think it's a perfectly legitimate investigation. I'm glad that 972 00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:16,720 Speaker 5: she's cooperating with it. We will see. 973 00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:20,440 Speaker 3: How she was previously investigated by the Office of Congressional Ethics. 974 00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:22,400 Speaker 5: It is currently they're both investigating. 975 00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:24,719 Speaker 4: I thought that I thought that that one concluded. Well, 976 00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:28,960 Speaker 4: she said that they concluded that she had followed the rules. 977 00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:31,600 Speaker 5: She says that the House Committee and Ethics are currently 978 00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:33,280 Speaker 5: reviewing the matter. As yesterday. 979 00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:38,239 Speaker 4: She said that Okay, so Previously she'd been reviewed and 980 00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:40,280 Speaker 4: they had found that she was okay. 981 00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:43,359 Speaker 3: Maybe now with the new news, they're taking a. 982 00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:45,560 Speaker 4: Closer look into it because the DJ would have access 983 00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:48,160 Speaker 4: to more information than OSEE would. 984 00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:50,200 Speaker 5: And you know that the House Ethics Committee is so 985 00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:54,600 Speaker 5: you never really know when they're their timelines. They're very secretive, 986 00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:57,879 Speaker 5: they're totally closed off. So maybe there was something else 987 00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:00,880 Speaker 5: that they were investigating at Coreybush was aware of. That 988 00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:03,600 Speaker 5: is what she's referring to there. So again, I mean, 989 00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:06,960 Speaker 5: we'll see. I don't think we have conclusive evidence in 990 00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:09,520 Speaker 5: any direction. I'm glad they're investigating it, but this is 991 00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:15,200 Speaker 5: just so minor. It's just it is the allegations. 992 00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:18,520 Speaker 4: We're talking about Warren Peace, and then we're going to 993 00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:20,359 Speaker 4: have a race determined, like. 994 00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:22,600 Speaker 5: For members of Congress. I'm saying this as a conservative, 995 00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:27,239 Speaker 5: like this is not disqualifying whatsoever for members of Congress. Now, 996 00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:29,799 Speaker 5: the right has made a lot of her being a 997 00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:31,960 Speaker 5: sort of defund the police person and a lot of 998 00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:35,600 Speaker 5: the squad being defund the police people and then paying hired. 999 00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:37,840 Speaker 5: That's a clean hit. I think that's a I was 1000 00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:42,000 Speaker 5: just gonna say that's a much cleaner hit. So we'll 1001 00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:43,759 Speaker 5: see where this goes. But again, she does have a 1002 00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:46,200 Speaker 5: primary challenge, right that's being funded by a pack. 1003 00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:52,320 Speaker 4: There's there's a lot he yes, what's his name, Wesley 1004 00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:56,040 Speaker 4: Bell was running for senate jump jumped out of the 1005 00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:57,960 Speaker 4: Senate race and into the House race. 1006 00:54:58,000 --> 00:54:59,400 Speaker 3: After October seventh. 1007 00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:02,560 Speaker 4: One, it appeared that, you know, Bush could be vulnerable 1008 00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:06,799 Speaker 4: to a well financed challenger. He announced he had raised 1009 00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:10,960 Speaker 4: six hundred thousand dollars. There's a PAC has already been spending. 1010 00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:14,840 Speaker 4: APAC was spending against her before she had an opponent 1011 00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:17,640 Speaker 4: through its super pac so that yes, they're absolutely coming 1012 00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:20,719 Speaker 4: for her. So this will wind up I think in 1013 00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:25,680 Speaker 4: all of the super pac ads that because Marie Newman, 1014 00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:29,480 Speaker 4: who APAC took out in twenty twenty two because she 1015 00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:34,680 Speaker 4: represented a huge kind of palestinating population in Illinois, had 1016 00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:39,680 Speaker 4: a congressional ethics review underway, and they made that like 1017 00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:43,040 Speaker 4: the focus of their massive spending against her. So if 1018 00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:46,319 Speaker 4: you have thirty seconds and you know, if to do 1019 00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:48,359 Speaker 4: an ad and you got a million dollars to spread it, 1020 00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:51,359 Speaker 4: you can make someone look really really bad. We'll see 1021 00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:54,319 Speaker 4: whether or not people believe it. And also you know, 1022 00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:57,600 Speaker 4: maybe maybe they actually will see. Yeah, everyone's innocent of 1023 00:55:57,640 --> 00:56:00,440 Speaker 4: proven guilty. Maybe maybe they did make some stakes and 1024 00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:01,960 Speaker 4: how they and how they did. 1025 00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:05,680 Speaker 5: This mistakes are intentional, uh, you know, funneling of money. 1026 00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:12,160 Speaker 5: But again, this is so members of Congress commit so 1027 00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:16,480 Speaker 5: many egregious ethical violations. I say this not I completely 1028 00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:18,680 Speaker 5: think that they should be looking into it. If there's 1029 00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:21,759 Speaker 5: good journalism in the space, I welcome it, and I 1030 00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:27,000 Speaker 5: welcome the ethics investigation. I'm glad she's fully cooperating. Again, like, 1031 00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:30,719 Speaker 5: this is just not on the same level as other congressions. 1032 00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:33,960 Speaker 4: And there's a there's an interesting class issue here in 1033 00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:37,080 Speaker 4: the sense that you know, Bush was in poverty up 1034 00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:39,920 Speaker 4: until she got her first paycheck basically as a as 1035 00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:45,600 Speaker 4: a member of Congress, and wealthy members of Congress uh yeah, right, 1036 00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:49,560 Speaker 4: she was in and out of homelessness. Wealthy members of Congress, 1037 00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:53,399 Speaker 4: you know, find ways to get fantastically rich through their 1038 00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:57,040 Speaker 4: quote unquote public service, and their consultants find ways to 1039 00:56:57,040 --> 00:57:02,440 Speaker 4: buy boats with all sorts with yea, with campaign money. 1040 00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:06,800 Speaker 4: And they just happened to know the precise legal ways 1041 00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:10,439 Speaker 4: that they're able to get insanely rich. I'm sure much 1042 00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:14,799 Speaker 4: richer and many more boats these than the people who 1043 00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:19,200 Speaker 4: are alleged to have taken a little extra security money 1044 00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:22,040 Speaker 4: for allegedly not doing enough security work. 1045 00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:25,840 Speaker 5: And as Sam Goadoldig outlined here just a couple of 1046 00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:28,720 Speaker 5: weeks ago, and his firm outlined here just a couple 1047 00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:31,920 Speaker 5: of weeks ago, the Squad and the Freedom Caucus represents 1048 00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:36,040 Speaker 5: some of the lowest income districts in the country, whereas 1049 00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:39,200 Speaker 5: the more Centrists represent the higher income districts in the country. 1050 00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:41,600 Speaker 5: And so yes, you see the class issues I think 1051 00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:45,200 Speaker 5: play out in different questions like these, which is a 1052 00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:47,520 Speaker 5: good prism to look at them through. We should move 1053 00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:48,520 Speaker 5: on to ilhan. 1054 00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:49,600 Speaker 3: Omar, number two in the barrel. 1055 00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:52,480 Speaker 5: Yes, we're continuing our tour through the scandals of the 1056 00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:55,760 Speaker 5: Squad and this last week of January twenty twenty four 1057 00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:59,160 Speaker 5: with this video of ilhan Omar. This is a vo 1058 00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:03,040 Speaker 5: so we can start running it because she's she's speaking 1059 00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:05,320 Speaker 5: a different language. She says my answer to Somalians was, 1060 00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:08,040 Speaker 5: and she's speaking to Somalians that the US government will 1061 00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:10,640 Speaker 5: only do they will not do what we want and 1062 00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:13,720 Speaker 5: nothing else. They must follow. We Samalians must have that 1063 00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:16,120 Speaker 5: confidence in ourselves that we call for. We live in 1064 00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:17,560 Speaker 5: the US pay tax in the US and have a 1065 00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:19,200 Speaker 5: real voice. The US is a country where one of 1066 00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:21,720 Speaker 5: your daughters is in Congress to represent your interest for 1067 00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:23,840 Speaker 5: as long as I'm there. Basically, Somalia will never be 1068 00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:27,040 Speaker 5: in dangers. It's waters will not be stolen by Ethiopia 1069 00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:30,080 Speaker 5: or others. The US would not dare to support anyone 1070 00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:33,160 Speaker 5: against Amalia to steal our land sleeping comfort, knowing I'm 1071 00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:35,240 Speaker 5: here to protect the interests of Somalia from inside the 1072 00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:38,160 Speaker 5: US system. So that's translation that was on the bottom 1073 00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:41,640 Speaker 5: of the video. She's speaking to her constituents in Minnesota 1074 00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:44,880 Speaker 5: that are of Somalian heritage and. 1075 00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:47,600 Speaker 3: Right, and so there's a fight over exactly what she 1076 00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:48,360 Speaker 3: said because she was. 1077 00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:50,440 Speaker 5: The words I just read. Actually, there's whether or not 1078 00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:52,760 Speaker 5: those are accurate. Translation of what she just said is 1079 00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:53,480 Speaker 5: at the heart of this. 1080 00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:57,360 Speaker 4: And so she was speaking in Somalia and so so 1081 00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:03,120 Speaker 4: a couple of Somali analysts have posted their own translations 1082 00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:07,920 Speaker 4: of what they say that she said, and Omar reposted 1083 00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:10,680 Speaker 4: one of those. So I think that's a fair one 1084 00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:15,120 Speaker 4: to go by. And in the Spectator article they quote 1085 00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:18,640 Speaker 4: and it's also on Twitter. You know, she said quote 1086 00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:22,600 Speaker 4: while I am in Congress no one will take Somalia's. See, 1087 00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:26,640 Speaker 4: Somalia belongs to all Somali's. Somalia is one. We are 1088 00:59:26,680 --> 00:59:29,880 Speaker 4: brothers and sisters, and our land will not be balkanized. 1089 00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:33,640 Speaker 4: Our lands were taken from us before, and God willing, 1090 00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:36,680 Speaker 4: we may one day seek them. 1091 00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:38,560 Speaker 3: So what that is a reference to. 1092 00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:46,240 Speaker 4: Is on January first, the Ethiopia basically cut a deal 1093 00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:51,880 Speaker 4: with the breakaway republic unrecognized breakaway republic of Somali Land 1094 00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:56,960 Speaker 4: where Ethiopia would recognize Somali Land which broke away from 1095 00:59:57,040 --> 01:00:02,520 Speaker 4: Somalia and in exchange, Ethiopia would get access to roughly 1096 01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:07,200 Speaker 4: twenty kilometers of of c because Ethiopia has been landlocked, 1097 01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:10,840 Speaker 4: you know, forever and or for decades, and it is 1098 01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:14,240 Speaker 4: a it is a source of kind of domestic you know, 1099 01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:17,320 Speaker 4: and national shame that they don't have. And they also 1100 01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:21,080 Speaker 4: have claimed quite reasonably that it holds back economic growth 1101 01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:23,400 Speaker 4: and not have not be able to build a port city. 1102 01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:24,720 Speaker 3: So they cut a deal. 1103 01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:25,400 Speaker 13: UH. 1104 01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:30,560 Speaker 4: This is an MoU between Ethiopia and Somaliland Somalia. UH 1105 01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:34,360 Speaker 4: does not recognize Somaliland does and believes that it will 1106 01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:38,280 Speaker 4: you know, retake Somalia Somaliland at some point, and so 1107 01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:41,720 Speaker 4: it is deeply hostile even you know, potent, you know, 1108 01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:44,800 Speaker 4: we could see a hot war at some point, deeply 1109 01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:49,440 Speaker 4: hostile to this MoU this agreement between Somaliland and Ethiopia. 1110 01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:53,960 Speaker 4: And so here Omar is taking sides in that question, saying, no, 1111 01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:57,000 Speaker 4: we're you know, the US is not going to recognize 1112 01:00:57,000 --> 01:01:00,560 Speaker 4: this mo ou uh. They're not going to recognize mollyland, 1113 01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:03,840 Speaker 4: and we as a Somali American population are going to 1114 01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:06,480 Speaker 4: exert our lobbying influence here in the US to make 1115 01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:10,320 Speaker 4: sure that they that they don't do that. We could 1116 01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:12,480 Speaker 4: now she's she's getting criticized, and we can put up 1117 01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:16,360 Speaker 4: this next element. She's getting criticized for engaging in kind 1118 01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:20,040 Speaker 4: of what what people call kind of greater Somalia ideology, 1119 01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:22,320 Speaker 4: which and if you look at this, this kind of 1120 01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:24,160 Speaker 4: map that we have up and if you're only listening 1121 01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:27,480 Speaker 4: on the podcast, the blue is kind of creeping into 1122 01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:33,920 Speaker 4: Kenya and creeping into Ethiopia, creeping you know, uh, and 1123 01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:37,920 Speaker 4: obviously taking back Somaliland up up close to Djibouti. 1124 01:01:37,960 --> 01:01:38,160 Speaker 5: There. 1125 01:01:39,240 --> 01:01:42,440 Speaker 4: That's the kind of the this like grand vision that 1126 01:01:42,560 --> 01:01:46,080 Speaker 4: some people think she was making a reference to when 1127 01:01:46,280 --> 01:01:49,560 Speaker 4: they say when when she said that our lands were 1128 01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:52,440 Speaker 4: taken for from us and one day we will we 1129 01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:55,240 Speaker 4: will get them back. And so you know, you've got 1130 01:01:55,320 --> 01:01:57,080 Speaker 4: Kenyon's Ethiopians and Somaliland. 1131 01:01:57,120 --> 01:01:59,720 Speaker 3: People are like, I don't know, how about not about 1132 01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:00,320 Speaker 3: we don't do that. 1133 01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:01,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't know about that. 1134 01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:07,919 Speaker 3: So that's that's the context of this of this current controversy. 1135 01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:10,560 Speaker 5: So a lot of people on the right reacted to 1136 01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:13,720 Speaker 5: a translation which now does appear to look like it's 1137 01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:17,000 Speaker 5: a mistranslation. I'm obviously not a language there. 1138 01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:21,440 Speaker 4: Was less irredentist and less kind of aggressive than the 1139 01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:25,720 Speaker 4: original translation, but it does still embrace the idea that 1140 01:02:26,560 --> 01:02:29,360 Speaker 4: nobody's going to take Somali, you see. So it is 1141 01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:32,840 Speaker 4: strict opposition to recognition of this MoU. 1142 01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:34,440 Speaker 5: And one of the things the right actually latched onto 1143 01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:37,360 Speaker 5: even more than that in the original translation was Omar 1144 01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:41,000 Speaker 5: referring to herself first as Somali, then as Muslim, and 1145 01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:42,920 Speaker 5: then as American. 1146 01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:45,080 Speaker 3: And that's what that was a mistranslated. 1147 01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:47,080 Speaker 5: Wa it appears that was a mistranslation. Again, I'm not 1148 01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:49,840 Speaker 5: an expert in the language here, but Elan Omar herself 1149 01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:53,720 Speaker 5: shared the translation that you just discussed, so she seems 1150 01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:57,040 Speaker 5: to say that's what she was referring to. But that's 1151 01:02:57,080 --> 01:02:59,479 Speaker 5: what really had people on the right saying to port 1152 01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:02,760 Speaker 5: her she should be expelled from Congress. She sees herself, 1153 01:03:03,080 --> 01:03:06,040 Speaker 5: I will say, that's a real hypocrisy problem when she's 1154 01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:10,640 Speaker 5: talking about in this even in the good translation or 1155 01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:15,360 Speaker 5: the better translation, for her talking about our country, our country, 1156 01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:17,840 Speaker 5: our country, when she's referring to Somalia, and then talking 1157 01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:21,240 Speaker 5: about quote this country when she's talking about the United States. 1158 01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:25,280 Speaker 5: I just it does seem as though and I think 1159 01:03:25,280 --> 01:03:29,600 Speaker 5: this is perfectly natural for someone who fled their war 1160 01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:35,160 Speaker 5: torn homeland and loves their native country, I understand it. 1161 01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:40,000 Speaker 5: I think it's a problem for somebody who criticizes the 1162 01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:43,480 Speaker 5: dual loyalty is real point, and I think it's just 1163 01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:45,320 Speaker 5: speaking of clean hits. I think that's kind of a 1164 01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:45,760 Speaker 5: clean hit. 1165 01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:49,720 Speaker 4: And I'm all for Somali Americans lobbying their government well 1166 01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:53,360 Speaker 4: for whatever interest they want to lobby for. One extra 1167 01:03:53,880 --> 01:03:56,560 Speaker 4: piece of context that has people concerned about this is 1168 01:03:56,560 --> 01:04:01,000 Speaker 4: that the greater Somalia ideologies is so stated most with 1169 01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:09,640 Speaker 4: former Somali presidents Site Barry, who Omar's father was served 1170 01:04:09,720 --> 01:04:14,760 Speaker 4: under as a colonel, and the and Barry launched a 1171 01:04:16,120 --> 01:04:18,680 Speaker 4: horrific genocide of hundreds of thousands of people. 1172 01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:21,640 Speaker 3: Awful, awful person. 1173 01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:23,640 Speaker 13: And so. 1174 01:04:25,080 --> 01:04:29,320 Speaker 4: Any association with that, any any kind of hearkening back 1175 01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:33,360 Speaker 4: to that era, which which she's not necessarily doing, but 1176 01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:37,080 Speaker 4: because it's in the context of this greater smile, it 1177 01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:38,440 Speaker 4: has people been Wait a minute, that's. 1178 01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:42,880 Speaker 5: A little militant in that big context. Yeah, now we 1179 01:04:42,920 --> 01:04:44,120 Speaker 5: move on to Jamal Bowman. 1180 01:04:44,280 --> 01:04:45,520 Speaker 3: Jamal Bowman a more fun one. 1181 01:04:45,600 --> 01:04:47,760 Speaker 5: Yeah, this one is the more fun one. Let's put 1182 01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:49,360 Speaker 5: Jamal Bowman's poetry. 1183 01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:51,960 Speaker 3: Was a Jewish insider that broke this? I think it was, 1184 01:04:52,080 --> 01:04:52,600 Speaker 3: It may have been. 1185 01:04:52,680 --> 01:04:55,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, So here's Jamal Bowman's poetry. If you're listening, we'll 1186 01:04:55,840 --> 01:04:57,640 Speaker 5: read it for you. Two thousand and one, and he's 1187 01:04:57,720 --> 01:04:59,600 Speaker 5: using the he's made the stylist. 1188 01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:02,600 Speaker 3: Used that but ten fifteen years ago or something, right. 1189 01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:06,400 Speaker 5: It's twenty eleven, so long time. So he's using slashes. 1190 01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:10,280 Speaker 5: Two thousand and one. Planes used as missiles target the 1191 01:05:10,320 --> 01:05:14,560 Speaker 5: twin towers. Later in the day, Building seven also collapsed. HM. 1192 01:05:15,280 --> 01:05:19,160 Speaker 5: Multiple explosions heard before and during the collapse, and we 1193 01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:20,920 Speaker 5: can go out. You used to have a blog or something, 1194 01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:23,680 Speaker 5: so you think he keeps doing allegedly two other planes, 1195 01:05:23,720 --> 01:05:27,880 Speaker 5: the Pentagon Pennsylvania hijacked by terrorists, minimal damage done, minimal 1196 01:05:27,920 --> 01:05:32,640 Speaker 5: debris found. It's pretty i mean, typical nine to eleven 1197 01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:37,240 Speaker 5: truth theorism. But the poetry, the vehicle of poetry, and 1198 01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:43,240 Speaker 5: i'd say very contemporary stylistic poetry is particularly interesting in 1199 01:05:43,280 --> 01:05:45,400 Speaker 5: the case of a sitting Congressman, Jamal Bowman. But you 1200 01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:47,800 Speaker 5: made a really good point before we started that he's 1201 01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:50,560 Speaker 5: a normal guy in ways other members of Congress aren't, 1202 01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:53,040 Speaker 5: which has actually always been my hot take on Marjorie 1203 01:05:53,040 --> 01:05:57,360 Speaker 5: Taylor Green, which is that as wrong as she has 1204 01:05:57,400 --> 01:06:01,760 Speaker 5: done so many different things, the Beltway is just visceral 1205 01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:06,040 Speaker 5: hatred of her and their visceral hatred of nine to 1206 01:06:06,080 --> 01:06:10,440 Speaker 5: eleven Trutherism, for example, which I think has been debunked. 1207 01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:13,560 Speaker 5: I'm sure I'll get comments on that. But for the record, 1208 01:06:14,640 --> 01:06:17,840 Speaker 5: you know that is so it is so much more 1209 01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:21,400 Speaker 5: in touch with Americans around the country have no trust 1210 01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:24,400 Speaker 5: and no faith left in any institutions or any government. 1211 01:06:24,680 --> 01:06:27,600 Speaker 5: That a lot of people really do believe this because 1212 01:06:27,600 --> 01:06:31,280 Speaker 5: you have given them no reason to trust your side 1213 01:06:31,320 --> 01:06:34,200 Speaker 5: of the story. You know, it's it's just a it's 1214 01:06:34,280 --> 01:06:35,400 Speaker 5: kind of a normy thing. 1215 01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:39,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, The late great Michael Brooks made a great point 1216 01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:44,000 Speaker 4: once where he said that basically Joe Rogan and that 1217 01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:48,160 Speaker 4: type of person actually represents the real center of America, 1218 01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:54,600 Speaker 4: Like that's the that's the centrist viewpoint, which is contradictory, confused, 1219 01:06:55,200 --> 01:07:02,080 Speaker 4: distrustful of government, whereas we kind of think of like 1220 01:07:02,120 --> 01:07:04,960 Speaker 4: the New York Times and CNN as the centrist institutions, 1221 01:07:05,280 --> 01:07:09,600 Speaker 4: but they're actually not, like they represent a different segment 1222 01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:13,960 Speaker 4: of the population that it's the Rogan types that are 1223 01:07:14,240 --> 01:07:15,080 Speaker 4: right there in the middle. 1224 01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:18,920 Speaker 5: There's wine Mom centrism and Rogan Centrism, and they have 1225 01:07:19,040 --> 01:07:22,000 Speaker 5: some Venn Diagram overlap, but not a lot. 1226 01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:26,880 Speaker 4: And right, Jamal Bowman is a normal person, like it 1227 01:07:26,960 --> 01:07:32,600 Speaker 4: was an independent before before running for Congress. He thinks 1228 01:07:33,240 --> 01:07:38,320 Speaker 4: for himself, and that type of regular person in America 1229 01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:42,120 Speaker 4: is going to fall prey to some of these conspiracy theories. 1230 01:07:41,560 --> 01:07:42,520 Speaker 3: Like that's going to happen. 1231 01:07:43,920 --> 01:07:47,720 Speaker 4: And so when I saw that, it's like didn't necessarily. 1232 01:07:47,120 --> 01:07:51,520 Speaker 3: Like shock me checks out. Yeah sure, yeah, And I think. 1233 01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:54,880 Speaker 5: You like in the poem maybe commended Loose Change, which 1234 01:07:54,920 --> 01:07:56,760 Speaker 5: is Alex Jones documentary. 1235 01:07:56,240 --> 01:07:59,560 Speaker 4: Because Alex Jones sort of started on the left, Yeah, yeah, 1236 01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:03,080 Speaker 4: with it, and that's how he got that, that's how 1237 01:08:03,080 --> 01:08:03,920 Speaker 4: he first got famous. 1238 01:08:03,960 --> 01:08:04,080 Speaker 3: Right. 1239 01:08:04,160 --> 01:08:07,040 Speaker 5: It was really popular on the sort of like fringe 1240 01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:11,760 Speaker 5: left during the Iraq War because he was questioning like 1241 01:08:11,800 --> 01:08:15,840 Speaker 5: the military industrial complex, so he definitely had a lot of. 1242 01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:20,760 Speaker 4: Reach and Loose Change was this YouTube documentary that just 1243 01:08:20,840 --> 01:08:24,599 Speaker 4: had was just an absolute phenom, Like millions and millions 1244 01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:25,360 Speaker 4: of people. 1245 01:08:25,360 --> 01:08:27,760 Speaker 3: Watched it, and it has this like. 1246 01:08:29,840 --> 01:08:32,040 Speaker 4: You know, if you can capture somebody's attention for an 1247 01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:35,240 Speaker 4: hour and you can cherry pick, you know things, I'm 1248 01:08:35,280 --> 01:08:37,320 Speaker 4: sure people get mad at me too well, but like 1249 01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:39,479 Speaker 4: the building seven people are going to be in our comments, 1250 01:08:39,520 --> 01:08:40,280 Speaker 4: oh for sure. 1251 01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:42,599 Speaker 5: But again that is like one of the big problems 1252 01:08:42,600 --> 01:08:44,800 Speaker 5: here is that our government is not transparent when they 1253 01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:47,080 Speaker 5: always say that they're being transparent and we really can't 1254 01:08:47,120 --> 01:08:49,680 Speaker 5: trust what they say. So like that's part of the 1255 01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:52,720 Speaker 5: issue is that even when you know through good journalism 1256 01:08:52,760 --> 01:08:57,280 Speaker 5: and other you know, sources of primary information, primary slist 1257 01:08:57,280 --> 01:08:59,960 Speaker 5: information and footage and like you can put the store 1258 01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:03,320 Speaker 5: were together. But again, when the government, who you should 1259 01:09:03,320 --> 01:09:05,320 Speaker 5: not trust is telling you trust us. 1260 01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:09,040 Speaker 4: So Bowman is also facing an APAC backed challenger George Latimer, 1261 01:09:09,120 --> 01:09:14,559 Speaker 4: Westchester County executive. His race could hinge on redistricting, and 1262 01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:19,360 Speaker 4: so this type of thing would be more damaging in 1263 01:09:19,400 --> 01:09:21,840 Speaker 4: some parts of New York than other parts of New York. 1264 01:09:22,240 --> 01:09:26,519 Speaker 4: We'll see how those lines get drawn. Who comes out 1265 01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:34,240 Speaker 4: ahead there. Let's move on to Maria Salazar down in Miami. 1266 01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:35,639 Speaker 5: Let's take a trip down the coast. 1267 01:09:35,640 --> 01:09:38,400 Speaker 3: Give us a credit to this local reporter here from 1268 01:09:38,520 --> 01:09:39,120 Speaker 3: New York. 1269 01:09:39,000 --> 01:09:44,400 Speaker 5: City to Miami, where Republican Congresswoman Maria Alvius Salazar was 1270 01:09:44,560 --> 01:09:47,439 Speaker 5: grilled by a local CBS reporter about something that is 1271 01:09:47,479 --> 01:09:51,960 Speaker 5: actually very common here in Washington, DC. Watched this clip 1272 01:09:52,160 --> 01:09:52,719 Speaker 5: last month. 1273 01:09:52,760 --> 01:09:54,800 Speaker 9: You were at FIU and you present a check for 1274 01:09:54,840 --> 01:09:57,599 Speaker 9: six hundred and fifty thousand dollars to help small businesses 1275 01:09:57,640 --> 01:10:01,519 Speaker 9: at FIU. But you voted against the bill that gave 1276 01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:04,120 Speaker 9: the money that you then signed a check for and 1277 01:10:04,200 --> 01:10:07,320 Speaker 9: handed and had a photo op, the Consolidated Appropriations Act 1278 01:10:07,320 --> 01:10:10,360 Speaker 9: of twenty twenty three. Right, you voted against that bill. 1279 01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:13,559 Speaker 1: Right now, you have to give me more details. But 1280 01:10:13,600 --> 01:10:15,720 Speaker 1: I do know that every time I have an opportunity 1281 01:10:15,760 --> 01:10:20,120 Speaker 1: to bring money to my constituents. 1282 01:10:19,240 --> 01:10:19,720 Speaker 2: I do so. 1283 01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:22,880 Speaker 1: I I just said four hundred thousand dollars. 1284 01:10:22,880 --> 01:10:24,719 Speaker 5: But look you what you voted against. 1285 01:10:24,760 --> 01:10:26,320 Speaker 9: You voted against the Chips and Science Act. 1286 01:10:26,400 --> 01:10:29,680 Speaker 1: Right, listen, right now, I need to I need to 1287 01:10:29,960 --> 01:10:34,400 Speaker 1: ask my staff forty million dollars that I have brought 1288 01:10:34,680 --> 01:10:36,920 Speaker 1: to this community, are you proud of me? 1289 01:10:37,080 --> 01:10:38,799 Speaker 5: Are you proud of the forty million dollars? 1290 01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:39,240 Speaker 7: How much? 1291 01:10:39,360 --> 01:10:41,360 Speaker 5: But how are you proud that I wrote the Dignity Act? 1292 01:10:41,360 --> 01:10:42,839 Speaker 5: Haven't I let's talk about. 1293 01:10:42,640 --> 01:10:45,320 Speaker 1: The America's Wait wait, wait, let me one second. 1294 01:10:45,520 --> 01:10:48,439 Speaker 9: Tell me the money that you talk about, the forty 1295 01:10:48,479 --> 01:10:51,400 Speaker 9: million dollars that you bring back to the district. Sometimes 1296 01:10:51,439 --> 01:10:54,360 Speaker 9: that money comes from bills that you voted against. You 1297 01:10:54,479 --> 01:10:57,200 Speaker 9: voted against the Chips Act, and yet you praise the 1298 01:10:57,240 --> 01:11:01,160 Speaker 9: fact that the South Florida Climate Resistiam's Tech cub is 1299 01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:04,559 Speaker 9: going to be started in Miami. Right you voted against 1300 01:11:04,600 --> 01:11:07,200 Speaker 9: the infrastructure bill, and you talk about all the money 1301 01:11:07,240 --> 01:11:10,519 Speaker 9: that comes back to the airport. So at the same 1302 01:11:10,600 --> 01:11:12,920 Speaker 9: time that you're taking credit for the money that you 1303 01:11:12,960 --> 01:11:16,240 Speaker 9: bring back to the district in Washington, you're voting against 1304 01:11:16,240 --> 01:11:18,080 Speaker 9: these projects on party line votes. 1305 01:11:18,880 --> 01:11:21,000 Speaker 5: Listen, I that was I think last cycle. 1306 01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:23,720 Speaker 1: I cannot really remember right now, but just look, just 1307 01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:25,960 Speaker 1: look at the America's Act, which is what I'm going 1308 01:11:26,000 --> 01:11:29,559 Speaker 1: to vote. You don't want to explain why, I mean 1309 01:11:29,720 --> 01:11:31,800 Speaker 1: right now, And I'm not trying to be a politician. 1310 01:11:31,840 --> 01:11:34,000 Speaker 1: There's so many bills that I've introduced that I know 1311 01:11:34,040 --> 01:11:35,759 Speaker 1: that bills that you voted against. 1312 01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:40,519 Speaker 5: That understand. But it's okay, so I voted. Sometimes I don't, 1313 01:11:40,520 --> 01:11:44,280 Speaker 5: but let's look at the positive. I'm not trying to 1314 01:11:44,280 --> 01:11:47,120 Speaker 5: be a politician. I also like, I need to touch. 1315 01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:48,160 Speaker 3: Her body language. 1316 01:11:48,160 --> 01:11:50,280 Speaker 4: She's just leaned back. She's chill the whole time. She's 1317 01:11:50,320 --> 01:11:52,800 Speaker 4: like whatever, Yeah, sometimes I vote for it, sometimes I don't. 1318 01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:53,840 Speaker 3: Who cares? The money is here? 1319 01:11:54,200 --> 01:11:54,840 Speaker 5: Well, okay, so. 1320 01:11:54,800 --> 01:11:56,360 Speaker 3: There's a lot to bugging me about it. 1321 01:11:56,640 --> 01:11:58,839 Speaker 5: Again, like if you weren't watching this the clip itself, 1322 01:11:59,080 --> 01:12:00,720 Speaker 5: this was this was a pretty ill clip. But her 1323 01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:03,760 Speaker 5: body language right, and you're right, she just doesn't care. 1324 01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:07,080 Speaker 5: Because actually, what a lot of people don't remember about 1325 01:12:07,080 --> 01:12:09,840 Speaker 5: Mariel VARs Salazar is she had a really successful career 1326 01:12:09,880 --> 01:12:13,680 Speaker 5: as a journalist that she parleyed into her run for Congress. 1327 01:12:14,680 --> 01:12:16,639 Speaker 3: And she's foll some of her and Fidel. 1328 01:12:16,880 --> 01:12:20,439 Speaker 5: Yeah, so we have this vo she's she was one 1329 01:12:20,479 --> 01:12:22,719 Speaker 5: of the few reporters ever to do an on camera 1330 01:12:22,760 --> 01:12:26,240 Speaker 5: interview with Fidel Castro, one of the few American yeah 1331 01:12:26,280 --> 01:12:27,680 Speaker 5: to do and she did, yes so very and you 1332 01:12:27,720 --> 01:12:29,479 Speaker 5: can see if you're watching, you can see a very 1333 01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:33,080 Speaker 5: young Mariel VARs Salazar. Uh so, Miami eighties there, yeah, 1334 01:12:33,160 --> 01:12:38,360 Speaker 5: Miami eighties grilling Fidel Castro. And she's very proud of 1335 01:12:38,360 --> 01:12:40,519 Speaker 5: that interview. I've heard talk about it before. 1336 01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:40,840 Speaker 3: Adelle. 1337 01:12:40,840 --> 01:12:43,240 Speaker 4: You're taking credit for all of this infrastructure spending when 1338 01:12:43,240 --> 01:12:44,639 Speaker 4: you voted against against. 1339 01:12:46,120 --> 01:12:48,719 Speaker 5: That's very funny. So ring you've been covering this longer 1340 01:12:48,720 --> 01:12:51,880 Speaker 5: than I have. This is the oldest trick in the book, 1341 01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:55,400 Speaker 5: voting against the spending. Uh well then and then later 1342 01:12:55,479 --> 01:12:56,799 Speaker 5: touting it in your district. 1343 01:12:56,880 --> 01:12:59,679 Speaker 4: The Republicans did it a ton during obama stimulus too, 1344 01:13:00,320 --> 01:13:04,040 Speaker 4: universally opposed his stimulus. But then of course when there's 1345 01:13:04,040 --> 01:13:06,599 Speaker 4: a ribbon cutting, you know, you can't keep a politician 1346 01:13:06,640 --> 01:13:09,719 Speaker 4: away from that because everybody likes when new stuff gets built. 1347 01:13:09,840 --> 01:13:12,880 Speaker 5: Oh yeah, or there's like the and again like actually, 1348 01:13:12,920 --> 01:13:17,200 Speaker 5: some politicians have in different cases legitimate arguments here. Not 1349 01:13:17,200 --> 01:13:19,080 Speaker 5: that I grew with the arguments, but what they'll say 1350 01:13:19,320 --> 01:13:21,400 Speaker 5: is with the child tax credit, that was passing the 1351 01:13:21,439 --> 01:13:25,080 Speaker 5: Trump tax bill in twenty seventeen. Democrats negotiated on that 1352 01:13:25,720 --> 01:13:28,720 Speaker 5: in the Senate side, and so they might say, you know, 1353 01:13:28,760 --> 01:13:30,920 Speaker 5: I helped get the child tax credit even though they 1354 01:13:31,000 --> 01:13:33,240 Speaker 5: voted against the bill, because they were involved in the 1355 01:13:33,240 --> 01:13:36,200 Speaker 5: back room negotiations, you know, pushing for the child tax credit. 1356 01:13:36,400 --> 01:13:40,880 Speaker 5: And it's possible that Mariel Viro Salazar was pushing this 1357 01:13:41,080 --> 01:13:43,000 Speaker 5: pork to get into a bill she knew she would 1358 01:13:43,040 --> 01:13:47,040 Speaker 5: ultimately vote against, just trying to make it. And this 1359 01:13:47,200 --> 01:13:50,080 Speaker 5: was the excuse a lot during the Obama years, trying 1360 01:13:50,120 --> 01:13:52,680 Speaker 5: to make an inevitable, bad bill as good as it 1361 01:13:52,720 --> 01:13:56,000 Speaker 5: possibly can be for your constituents. I think if that 1362 01:13:56,320 --> 01:13:58,320 Speaker 5: was what happened, though, we probably would have heard her 1363 01:13:58,400 --> 01:13:59,599 Speaker 5: use that argument. 1364 01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:01,200 Speaker 3: I love that she's like, I don't know how I 1365 01:14:01,280 --> 01:14:03,880 Speaker 3: voted on that? Is that was last cycle? That was less, 1366 01:14:04,320 --> 01:14:06,000 Speaker 3: get out of here less. I don't you want to 1367 01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:09,880 Speaker 3: hear about the bill I've introduced that's going nowhere? Can't 1368 01:14:09,920 --> 01:14:12,439 Speaker 3: we just talk about that? Can we just talk about that? Instead? 1369 01:14:12,560 --> 01:14:14,679 Speaker 5: She flipped it around. Aren't you proud of this bill? 1370 01:14:15,160 --> 01:14:17,680 Speaker 4: It's called the America's Bill? You against the America's Bill? Yes, 1371 01:14:17,720 --> 01:14:19,599 Speaker 4: I mean come on, what's wrong with you? She'll probably 1372 01:14:19,640 --> 01:14:20,679 Speaker 4: win in a rop, right. 1373 01:14:21,160 --> 01:14:21,479 Speaker 10: You know that. 1374 01:14:22,439 --> 01:14:26,160 Speaker 5: I think her original win was pretty close, but she 1375 01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:28,360 Speaker 5: I mean, once you're in, it's easier to stay in. 1376 01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:32,760 Speaker 3: The Other thing is the area is trending pretty red. 1377 01:14:32,920 --> 01:14:35,640 Speaker 5: She's also very friendly with leadership, so she's she was 1378 01:14:35,680 --> 01:14:37,519 Speaker 5: kind of elected in a cycle where there were a 1379 01:14:37,600 --> 01:14:41,639 Speaker 5: lot of like upstart, trumpy maga people, and I think 1380 01:14:41,680 --> 01:14:44,240 Speaker 5: she weirdly got lumped in with that because she was 1381 01:14:44,280 --> 01:14:49,479 Speaker 5: anti socialist running in a heavily Cuban district, and so 1382 01:14:49,560 --> 01:14:51,760 Speaker 5: she talked a lot about the kind of red meat 1383 01:14:51,800 --> 01:14:56,000 Speaker 5: socialism issue. But she's pretty friendly with leadership and not 1384 01:14:56,120 --> 01:14:58,240 Speaker 5: exactly as red meat as a lot of people would 1385 01:14:58,280 --> 01:15:01,599 Speaker 5: have her would peg her. And that friendly with leadership 1386 01:15:01,640 --> 01:15:03,960 Speaker 5: part matters a lot in the re election part because 1387 01:15:04,080 --> 01:15:06,240 Speaker 5: that determines where some of the money goes. 1388 01:15:06,320 --> 01:15:08,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, she's going to get that four hundred thousand, I 1389 01:15:08,880 --> 01:15:10,160 Speaker 3: FIU is going to get that big check. 1390 01:15:10,800 --> 01:15:14,519 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, is going to get We should we should 1391 01:15:14,520 --> 01:15:15,640 Speaker 5: see if she'll come on the show and talk to 1392 01:15:15,720 --> 01:15:18,200 Speaker 5: us about that, actually, because she would be an interesting guest. 1393 01:15:18,280 --> 01:15:22,200 Speaker 5: She as a former journalist, is she knows what she's 1394 01:15:22,240 --> 01:15:25,720 Speaker 5: doing on TV. I'll say that, yeah, And you know 1395 01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:29,439 Speaker 5: Ryan Graham Castro, what's the difference, right, It's a fine 1396 01:15:29,479 --> 01:15:31,920 Speaker 5: line between Ryan grim and Fidel Castro. 1397 01:15:32,160 --> 01:15:35,479 Speaker 3: There you go, as I always say, good writer, right Fidel. 1398 01:15:35,680 --> 01:15:38,120 Speaker 5: Sure, we'll give him that baseball fan. 1399 01:15:38,360 --> 01:15:41,760 Speaker 3: So Egen Carroll got to see you Love Carroll. 1400 01:15:41,880 --> 01:15:46,439 Speaker 5: So this clip of Egen Carroll on MSNBC is worth 1401 01:15:46,479 --> 01:15:49,720 Speaker 5: watching because Donald Trump has eighty three million dollars on 1402 01:15:49,800 --> 01:15:51,920 Speaker 5: the line he was awarded. She was she was worried 1403 01:15:51,960 --> 01:15:54,440 Speaker 5: eighty three million dollars in damages. 1404 01:15:54,080 --> 01:15:55,920 Speaker 3: And a definitely top of the last defamation. 1405 01:15:56,400 --> 01:16:01,680 Speaker 5: Yes, on top of the last defamation. But she she's 1406 01:16:01,840 --> 01:16:05,360 Speaker 5: not the best spokesperson for her own cause, and that 1407 01:16:05,439 --> 01:16:07,920 Speaker 5: has been the case basically since she made these allegations 1408 01:16:07,920 --> 01:16:09,840 Speaker 5: against Donald Trump. She kind of went back and forth 1409 01:16:09,840 --> 01:16:13,240 Speaker 5: on whether on whether the allegations constituted rape or not. 1410 01:16:14,320 --> 01:16:16,720 Speaker 5: People will remember that clip she said, you know, I 1411 01:16:16,720 --> 01:16:18,639 Speaker 5: won't call it rape because there are women down at 1412 01:16:18,640 --> 01:16:20,599 Speaker 5: the border, and I don't want to do a disservice 1413 01:16:20,640 --> 01:16:23,720 Speaker 5: to what other women are experiencing. She just seems to 1414 01:16:23,760 --> 01:16:27,680 Speaker 5: be eccentric. We'll put it at that. So let's take 1415 01:16:27,720 --> 01:16:29,720 Speaker 5: a look at that eccentrism that was on display in 1416 01:16:29,760 --> 01:16:31,040 Speaker 5: this interview with MSNBC. 1417 01:16:31,360 --> 01:16:34,479 Speaker 14: You've talked about using some of Trump's money that you're 1418 01:16:34,520 --> 01:16:37,280 Speaker 14: about to get to help shore up women's rights. 1419 01:16:37,600 --> 01:16:40,400 Speaker 3: Do you know what that might be, what that might 1420 01:16:40,439 --> 01:16:41,000 Speaker 3: look like? 1421 01:16:42,479 --> 01:16:46,920 Speaker 14: Yes, tell me, I had such such great ideas for 1422 01:16:47,120 --> 01:16:49,679 Speaker 14: all the good I'm going to do with this money. 1423 01:16:50,080 --> 01:16:54,360 Speaker 14: First thing, Rachel, you and I go shopping to get 1424 01:16:54,360 --> 01:16:59,639 Speaker 14: completely new wardrobes, new shoes, motorcycle for crawling, new fishing 1425 01:16:59,720 --> 01:17:01,160 Speaker 14: rod for Rachel. 1426 01:17:01,200 --> 01:17:06,840 Speaker 5: What do you want? Penhouse? Rachel, penhouse? And France? You 1427 01:17:06,880 --> 01:17:09,280 Speaker 5: want France? You want to go fishing in France. 1428 01:17:09,520 --> 01:17:13,040 Speaker 14: No, that's a joke. 1429 01:17:13,760 --> 01:17:15,599 Speaker 3: That's her lawyer over there saying that's a joke. 1430 01:17:15,800 --> 01:17:18,840 Speaker 5: You heard her lawyer laughing nervously and then tacking on 1431 01:17:18,880 --> 01:17:22,000 Speaker 5: to the end of that answer quote, that's a joke. 1432 01:17:22,360 --> 01:17:24,960 Speaker 5: Her lawyer was on air with her, which was probably 1433 01:17:25,040 --> 01:17:25,639 Speaker 5: for the best. 1434 01:17:26,960 --> 01:17:29,479 Speaker 4: Do you think she'll actually ever see Trump's money or 1435 01:17:29,520 --> 01:17:31,000 Speaker 4: is he going to figure out ways to not pay? 1436 01:17:31,160 --> 01:17:33,000 Speaker 5: I mean, the more she goes on media, the less 1437 01:17:33,000 --> 01:17:35,439 Speaker 5: opportunity she probably has to get that money. Because Donald 1438 01:17:35,439 --> 01:17:39,479 Speaker 5: Trump is appealing and Donald Trump is appealing the case 1439 01:17:39,680 --> 01:17:41,960 Speaker 5: and this doesn't help at all. 1440 01:17:42,200 --> 01:17:46,320 Speaker 4: But I mean, if the judgment is affirmed, she could 1441 01:17:46,320 --> 01:17:48,599 Speaker 4: set the money on fire. I mean, actually, I get 1442 01:17:48,600 --> 01:17:50,600 Speaker 4: it's technically against federal a lot of burn money, but 1443 01:17:51,760 --> 01:17:54,960 Speaker 4: she could take Rachel Matt out fishing in France, like right, 1444 01:17:55,000 --> 01:17:57,720 Speaker 4: who It's not is the appeals Court's supposed to care 1445 01:17:57,760 --> 01:17:58,639 Speaker 4: what she does with the money? 1446 01:17:58,720 --> 01:18:01,200 Speaker 5: No, I mean I think in theory no, But I 1447 01:18:01,200 --> 01:18:05,280 Speaker 5: think does it help people with the credibility question when 1448 01:18:05,320 --> 01:18:08,240 Speaker 5: she says that. I mean, I guess it depends on 1449 01:18:08,600 --> 01:18:11,439 Speaker 5: how much of the media people see. And they deemed 1450 01:18:11,439 --> 01:18:15,040 Speaker 5: her original allegation credible. So and that, by the way, 1451 01:18:15,200 --> 01:18:18,040 Speaker 5: it did too. Yeah, the jury deemed her original allegation 1452 01:18:18,280 --> 01:18:20,639 Speaker 5: to be credible. And that's how the defamation suit obviously 1453 01:18:20,720 --> 01:18:23,320 Speaker 5: was premised, is that she had a credible allegation. So 1454 01:18:23,439 --> 01:18:26,800 Speaker 5: what Donald Trump said about the allegation constituted defamition and 1455 01:18:26,800 --> 01:18:29,680 Speaker 5: defamation to the tune of eighty three something million dollars. Now, 1456 01:18:29,720 --> 01:18:32,839 Speaker 5: there are also one of the things that is included 1457 01:18:32,840 --> 01:18:38,760 Speaker 5: in Trump's appeal is that they have the conflict with 1458 01:18:38,800 --> 01:18:41,679 Speaker 5: the judge. Did you see this? So I'm reading from 1459 01:18:41,840 --> 01:18:44,960 Speaker 5: NBC News here. This is Trump's Laura Alena Haba on 1460 01:18:45,000 --> 01:18:48,200 Speaker 5: Monday file a letter with the court in New York 1461 01:18:48,280 --> 01:18:50,439 Speaker 5: citing the New York Post story that said US District 1462 01:18:50,520 --> 01:18:53,680 Speaker 5: Judge Lewis Kaplan and Carol attorney ROBERTA. Kaplan, who are 1463 01:18:53,680 --> 01:18:56,920 Speaker 5: not related, had worked at the major law firm Paul Weiss, Riffkin, 1464 01:18:57,000 --> 01:18:59,679 Speaker 5: Morton and Garrison in the nineteen nineties. An unidentified former 1465 01:18:59,680 --> 01:19:01,880 Speaker 5: partner at the firm, which employees around one thousand lawyers, 1466 01:19:02,120 --> 01:19:05,240 Speaker 5: told the Post that Lewis Kaplan had been quote like 1467 01:19:05,320 --> 01:19:07,840 Speaker 5: her mentor, and then Hobba told the New York Post 1468 01:19:07,840 --> 01:19:11,479 Speaker 5: that the situation was quote insane and so incestuous. Quote 1469 01:19:11,520 --> 01:19:14,200 Speaker 5: this is news to us, she told the paper on Saturday. 1470 01:19:14,320 --> 01:19:16,840 Speaker 5: If you're an attorney and you're saying that's news to 1471 01:19:16,920 --> 01:19:19,960 Speaker 5: you this far into a case, probably not great. 1472 01:19:20,160 --> 01:19:20,280 Speaker 2: Well. 1473 01:19:20,320 --> 01:19:23,160 Speaker 3: Trump doesn't get good attorneys because he doesn't pay them. Yeah, 1474 01:19:23,520 --> 01:19:25,920 Speaker 3: and so yeah, you get what you pay for. 1475 01:19:26,760 --> 01:19:27,960 Speaker 5: It's a pretty good way to put it. 1476 01:19:28,040 --> 01:19:31,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, he gets complete hacks who were just willing to 1477 01:19:31,280 --> 01:19:34,320 Speaker 4: work for him on the prayer that he'll somehow pay 1478 01:19:34,400 --> 01:19:37,720 Speaker 4: and on the hope that the exposure will actually help him. 1479 01:19:38,000 --> 01:19:40,519 Speaker 4: You remember, for his second impeachment he had that slip 1480 01:19:40,600 --> 01:19:44,800 Speaker 4: and fall attorney from Philadelphia who just went winged it 1481 01:19:44,840 --> 01:19:45,719 Speaker 4: on the Senate floor. 1482 01:19:46,120 --> 01:19:49,600 Speaker 5: Mm hmm. No, yeah, he doesn't get the they're not 1483 01:19:49,640 --> 01:19:54,160 Speaker 5: sending their best to borrow a phrase. And again that 1484 01:19:54,320 --> 01:19:57,400 Speaker 5: could be why actually if you go through the Egene Carrol. 1485 01:19:57,439 --> 01:19:58,880 Speaker 5: So we've talked about this a little bit. We don't 1486 01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:01,679 Speaker 5: need to litigate it. She did go back and forth 1487 01:20:01,680 --> 01:20:03,760 Speaker 5: on whether what happened constitute or rape. She has the 1488 01:20:03,800 --> 01:20:06,519 Speaker 5: story about it happening in a busy department store in 1489 01:20:06,560 --> 01:20:07,479 Speaker 5: the middle of the day. 1490 01:20:07,640 --> 01:20:09,400 Speaker 3: Years ago, but in a dressing room. 1491 01:20:09,520 --> 01:20:12,000 Speaker 5: And yeah, although part of it I think was like 1492 01:20:12,080 --> 01:20:15,040 Speaker 5: pinned outside the dressing room and then into the dressing room. 1493 01:20:15,160 --> 01:20:20,120 Speaker 5: It's a either way. She has gone back and forth 1494 01:20:20,160 --> 01:20:21,080 Speaker 5: on whether it was rape. 1495 01:20:21,320 --> 01:20:25,960 Speaker 4: Trump most hilariously undermined himself when he likes to go 1496 01:20:26,000 --> 01:20:30,320 Speaker 4: around saying as if it's a defense against rape, that 1497 01:20:30,680 --> 01:20:36,240 Speaker 4: she's not my type, which bizarrely like concedes the fact 1498 01:20:36,240 --> 01:20:38,840 Speaker 4: that he would happily rape somebody if it was if 1499 01:20:38,840 --> 01:20:42,280 Speaker 4: they were his type. But then they showed him a 1500 01:20:42,320 --> 01:20:47,040 Speaker 4: picture of Eugene Carroll and he misidentified her as his wife. 1501 01:20:47,200 --> 01:20:49,160 Speaker 3: Right, So even his. 1502 01:20:49,160 --> 01:20:52,439 Speaker 4: Bizarre claim that you know, he didn't rape her because 1503 01:20:52,439 --> 01:20:55,800 Speaker 4: she wasn't my type. Fell apart when it's like he 1504 01:20:56,479 --> 01:20:59,160 Speaker 4: was caught like thinking that it was his wife. 1505 01:20:59,640 --> 01:21:01,040 Speaker 3: It's his wife's not as type. 1506 01:21:01,160 --> 01:21:04,519 Speaker 5: Yeah. I mean again, it's like, does anyone question that 1507 01:21:04,840 --> 01:21:08,559 Speaker 5: Donald Trump not Millennia, but was Evana? It was like 1508 01:21:08,680 --> 01:21:13,720 Speaker 5: aggressive with women at the at the very least. No, 1509 01:21:14,160 --> 01:21:19,719 Speaker 5: And that's like, again, it's just these accusations Trump himself, Yes, yeah, exactly, 1510 01:21:19,800 --> 01:21:24,280 Speaker 5: he will tell you that with with some pride. But 1511 01:21:25,000 --> 01:21:28,559 Speaker 5: the accusations themselves are different than that question. But again, 1512 01:21:28,720 --> 01:21:32,040 Speaker 5: Jerry said they found them credible. So maybe that New 1513 01:21:32,080 --> 01:21:34,559 Speaker 5: York based Jerry is just really really favorable to each 1514 01:21:34,640 --> 01:21:37,519 Speaker 5: and Carol and Trump has bad lawyers, and maybe that's 1515 01:21:37,680 --> 01:21:40,240 Speaker 5: how she does end up seeing those eighty three million dollars. 1516 01:21:40,280 --> 01:21:42,840 Speaker 5: I don't know Ryan, that this is the thing that 1517 01:21:43,040 --> 01:21:47,120 Speaker 5: Trump even three dollars, this is what he sees for like. 1518 01:21:47,880 --> 01:21:48,840 Speaker 3: His campaign money. 1519 01:21:49,120 --> 01:21:54,439 Speaker 5: I eighty three points million dollars is a lot of money. 1520 01:21:55,240 --> 01:21:59,960 Speaker 5: And they're just competing reports about Donald Trump's finances obviously, 1521 01:22:00,320 --> 01:22:01,080 Speaker 5: so right. 1522 01:22:01,160 --> 01:22:03,920 Speaker 4: And Trump remember said he was going to work for 1523 01:22:03,960 --> 01:22:07,320 Speaker 4: free as president and then and then or then said 1524 01:22:07,320 --> 01:22:09,000 Speaker 4: he was going to donate his money and ended up 1525 01:22:09,040 --> 01:22:09,600 Speaker 4: just pocketing it. 1526 01:22:09,600 --> 01:22:11,240 Speaker 3: It's like the four hundred thousand dollars salary. 1527 01:22:11,320 --> 01:22:14,280 Speaker 4: So raised his questions about how actually liquid he he 1528 01:22:14,360 --> 01:22:16,439 Speaker 4: actually is, if he needs to kind of if he 1529 01:22:16,479 --> 01:22:19,760 Speaker 4: actually needed that presidential salary that he claimed he wasn't 1530 01:22:19,800 --> 01:22:22,280 Speaker 4: going to take. Yes, it looks like we do have 1531 01:22:22,360 --> 01:22:26,080 Speaker 4: time to get to the news out of both Pakistan 1532 01:22:26,840 --> 01:22:31,280 Speaker 4: and Venezuela. So yesterday Matt Miller at the State Department 1533 01:22:31,320 --> 01:22:35,680 Speaker 4: announced that we were snapping back sanctions on on Venezuela. 1534 01:22:36,520 --> 01:22:40,640 Speaker 4: We had we had relieved sanctions on Venezuela in in 1535 01:22:40,800 --> 01:22:43,960 Speaker 4: a negotiation in order to get back some American uh 1536 01:22:44,280 --> 01:22:45,679 Speaker 4: you know, prisoners that were held there. 1537 01:22:46,320 --> 01:22:48,679 Speaker 3: We wanted them to extradite somebody here. 1538 01:22:49,080 --> 01:22:52,519 Speaker 4: They extradited that that person, and they wanted some other 1539 01:22:52,640 --> 01:22:58,600 Speaker 4: kind of commitments around uh election, transparency, democracy, other other reforms. 1540 01:22:59,160 --> 01:23:02,400 Speaker 4: Uh Maduro then claimed that there was a coup attempt 1541 01:23:02,520 --> 01:23:05,519 Speaker 4: against him, arrested a bunch of people and banned the 1542 01:23:05,520 --> 01:23:10,920 Speaker 4: opposition party, you know, heading into an upcoming election. That 1543 01:23:11,439 --> 01:23:14,920 Speaker 4: ban of the opposition party was ratified by the Venezuelan courts, 1544 01:23:14,920 --> 01:23:19,000 Speaker 4: which will become relevant in this In this segment, later. Meanwhile, 1545 01:23:19,080 --> 01:23:24,000 Speaker 4: over in Pakistan, which has an election on February eighth, 1546 01:23:24,120 --> 01:23:26,760 Speaker 4: grassroots members of the PTI, which is kind of the 1547 01:23:26,760 --> 01:23:31,280 Speaker 4: biggest kind of party opposition party in Pakistan, are just 1548 01:23:31,320 --> 01:23:35,000 Speaker 4: being arrested and massed when they sign up just to 1549 01:23:35,080 --> 01:23:40,160 Speaker 4: run for like lower level offices, and the opposition party leader, 1550 01:23:40,200 --> 01:23:42,920 Speaker 4: former Prime Minister im Ron Khan, earlier this week was 1551 01:23:42,960 --> 01:23:46,920 Speaker 4: sentenced to ten years in a totally bogus case around 1552 01:23:47,640 --> 01:23:51,439 Speaker 4: the mystic alleged mishandling of a classified document that we 1553 01:23:51,479 --> 01:23:54,120 Speaker 4: actually published over the intercept. He was not our source, 1554 01:23:54,560 --> 01:23:56,080 Speaker 4: he had nothing to do, he had nothing to do 1555 01:23:56,120 --> 01:23:59,360 Speaker 4: with it. They never proved the data is complete kangaroo nonsense. 1556 01:24:00,320 --> 01:24:05,080 Speaker 4: And then today they sentenced him to an additional fourteen 1557 01:24:05,200 --> 01:24:08,880 Speaker 4: years for another completely ridiculous case. 1558 01:24:08,920 --> 01:24:11,519 Speaker 3: This one is called is like a state gifts case. 1559 01:24:11,560 --> 01:24:17,839 Speaker 4: So for background, Imran Khan was a famous cricketer, extraordinarily wealthy. 1560 01:24:18,720 --> 01:24:21,400 Speaker 4: His next phase in his career after cricket was as 1561 01:24:21,400 --> 01:24:26,200 Speaker 4: a philanthropist. That's how he became doubly popular in Pakistan, 1562 01:24:26,640 --> 01:24:29,519 Speaker 4: you know, building hospitals, universities. 1563 01:24:28,920 --> 01:24:29,360 Speaker 3: Et cetera. 1564 01:24:30,000 --> 01:24:34,520 Speaker 4: And so then they charged him with taking gifts from 1565 01:24:34,600 --> 01:24:38,520 Speaker 4: like foreign like say Pakistan goes on a Pakistan primary 1566 01:24:39,560 --> 01:24:42,679 Speaker 4: goes to like Bangladesh and they give him like some gift, 1567 01:24:42,760 --> 01:24:46,599 Speaker 4: like a watch or something. They are accusing him of 1568 01:24:46,600 --> 01:24:48,040 Speaker 4: like keeping this stuff illegally. 1569 01:24:48,680 --> 01:24:50,200 Speaker 3: He says he did all the paperwork. 1570 01:24:50,360 --> 01:24:53,599 Speaker 4: The idea that a guy who is like massively rich 1571 01:24:53,640 --> 01:24:56,280 Speaker 4: and a philanthropist is trying to like pill for a 1572 01:24:56,320 --> 01:25:00,519 Speaker 4: watch is as absurd as you can imagine. He's tried 1573 01:25:00,520 --> 01:25:03,120 Speaker 4: in secret, like nothing about the case made any sense, 1574 01:25:04,200 --> 01:25:06,840 Speaker 4: and they're banning him from running for office for ten 1575 01:25:06,920 --> 01:25:11,200 Speaker 4: years and essentially banning the PTI from the ballot. It's 1576 01:25:11,560 --> 01:25:15,879 Speaker 4: complicated the way the court did it. The State Department meanwhile, 1577 01:25:16,280 --> 01:25:20,439 Speaker 4: no sanctions whatsoever. So yesterday at the State Department briefing, 1578 01:25:20,640 --> 01:25:22,439 Speaker 4: there are a lot of questions that were thrown at 1579 01:25:22,439 --> 01:25:25,200 Speaker 4: Matt Miller about this. And here's how I framed it 1580 01:25:25,200 --> 01:25:26,320 Speaker 4: to him, and here's his response. 1581 01:25:26,479 --> 01:25:28,720 Speaker 7: As you said earlier, that that's a matter for the 1582 01:25:28,760 --> 01:25:33,479 Speaker 7: Pakistani courts. When it came to Venezuela, that's a political matter. 1583 01:25:33,560 --> 01:25:34,280 Speaker 3: It seems the. 1584 01:25:34,360 --> 01:25:37,840 Speaker 7: Venezuelan courts of course approved you know, Maduro's banning of 1585 01:25:37,840 --> 01:25:40,519 Speaker 7: the party. Now you could say that court is under 1586 01:25:40,680 --> 01:25:44,479 Speaker 7: Maduro's thumb, it's a kangaroo court. But in Pakistan the 1587 01:25:44,520 --> 01:25:50,680 Speaker 7: prosecution was held in secret. Just recently, his attorney in 1588 01:25:50,800 --> 01:25:53,519 Speaker 7: Ronkon's attorneys were kept out of the courtroom and they 1589 01:25:53,520 --> 01:25:56,559 Speaker 7: took attorneys from the prosecution team and made him and 1590 01:25:56,600 --> 01:26:01,000 Speaker 7: put them on the defense team. Like, nothing about that 1591 01:26:01,080 --> 01:26:05,280 Speaker 7: prosecution seems less than kangaroo So why would Venezuelas be 1592 01:26:05,320 --> 01:26:07,439 Speaker 7: a political case? But when it comes to Pakistan, that's 1593 01:26:07,439 --> 01:26:08,800 Speaker 7: a matter for the Pakistani courts. 1594 01:26:08,920 --> 01:26:11,000 Speaker 13: So there are different situations and we have not yet 1595 01:26:11,000 --> 01:26:13,759 Speaker 13: made that conclusion with respect to the Pakistani legal process. 1596 01:26:13,920 --> 01:26:16,640 Speaker 13: When you look at Venezuela, we are looking at the 1597 01:26:16,800 --> 01:26:20,960 Speaker 13: entire history of the Maduro regime in cracking down on 1598 01:26:21,360 --> 01:26:26,599 Speaker 13: democracy and most importantly in this case, failing to carry 1599 01:26:26,600 --> 01:26:30,880 Speaker 13: out the commitments that they made to allow candidates to run. 1600 01:26:31,960 --> 01:26:34,360 Speaker 13: It's a commitment that they made that the country has 1601 01:26:34,439 --> 01:26:36,920 Speaker 13: renigged on, and that's why we're able to make the assessment. 1602 01:26:36,600 --> 01:26:38,639 Speaker 3: In that case. There might still be a determination on 1603 01:26:39,000 --> 01:26:39,880 Speaker 3: the Pakistan question. 1604 01:26:40,040 --> 01:26:41,880 Speaker 13: I just I don't have anything to preview, but it's 1605 01:26:41,880 --> 01:26:43,000 Speaker 13: not one that we've made at this time. 1606 01:26:43,200 --> 01:26:47,120 Speaker 3: So Matt Lee, Yeah, So Matt Lee, the AP. 1607 01:26:47,120 --> 01:26:50,120 Speaker 4: Reporter followed up immediately after this and said, wait a minute, 1608 01:26:50,280 --> 01:26:56,880 Speaker 4: So Venezuela does not have independent courts, but are you 1609 01:26:56,920 --> 01:27:00,040 Speaker 4: saying that Pakistan does. He's like and he said, my 1610 01:27:00,080 --> 01:27:01,800 Speaker 4: phone's dying here. But if I looked up the State 1611 01:27:01,840 --> 01:27:05,479 Speaker 4: departments Human Rights report on Pakistan, would I find that 1612 01:27:05,600 --> 01:27:10,200 Speaker 4: the State Department feels like the Pakistani courts are completely 1613 01:27:10,240 --> 01:27:11,480 Speaker 4: independent and trustworthy. 1614 01:27:11,880 --> 01:27:14,040 Speaker 5: What would we do as a country without him? 1615 01:27:14,040 --> 01:27:15,960 Speaker 3: In those briefings, I know, it's it's it's fun to 1616 01:27:15,960 --> 01:27:16,439 Speaker 3: watch him. 1617 01:27:16,760 --> 01:27:18,760 Speaker 5: I'm glad you're in there now too. You started going 1618 01:27:18,800 --> 01:27:19,120 Speaker 5: a lot more. 1619 01:27:19,280 --> 01:27:21,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's it's great, it's great to be in there. 1620 01:27:21,160 --> 01:27:22,559 Speaker 3: They're very they're no there. 1621 01:27:22,600 --> 01:27:27,240 Speaker 4: They don't necessarily answer the questions, but you know you can, 1622 01:27:27,360 --> 01:27:29,200 Speaker 4: you can. You can put things to them in here 1623 01:27:29,320 --> 01:27:33,280 Speaker 4: and hear how they respond. So the if people are 1624 01:27:33,320 --> 01:27:36,400 Speaker 4: actually wondering what the difference is, Yes, you know, Venezuela 1625 01:27:36,479 --> 01:27:39,160 Speaker 4: is a is an adversary. You know, Maduro is an 1626 01:27:39,200 --> 01:27:42,919 Speaker 4: adversary of the United States, and the military backed government 1627 01:27:43,000 --> 01:27:46,040 Speaker 4: in Pakistan is an ally of the United States. And 1628 01:27:46,240 --> 01:27:50,200 Speaker 4: Imran Khan was seen to be either adversarial or too. 1629 01:27:50,040 --> 01:27:54,639 Speaker 5: Neutral, and we wanted to cooperate on weapons production because 1630 01:27:54,640 --> 01:27:57,200 Speaker 5: we were in a hot war with Russia. 1631 01:27:57,280 --> 01:27:59,439 Speaker 3: Yeah, he famously. 1632 01:28:01,400 --> 01:28:04,280 Speaker 4: Gave this speech to a large rally in response to 1633 01:28:04,320 --> 01:28:09,920 Speaker 4: the EU demanding and the US privately demanding that Pakistan 1634 01:28:09,960 --> 01:28:13,160 Speaker 4: support Ukraine and not and not take what the US 1635 01:28:13,200 --> 01:28:17,040 Speaker 4: called aggressive neutrality when it came to Ukraine and Russia. 1636 01:28:17,280 --> 01:28:18,760 Speaker 4: He gave a speech where he said, we are not 1637 01:28:18,840 --> 01:28:23,960 Speaker 4: your slaves. And that kind of rhetoric chafes the West, 1638 01:28:24,280 --> 01:28:26,439 Speaker 4: like what are you talking about? You do you do 1639 01:28:26,520 --> 01:28:28,360 Speaker 4: what you're told? And now he's in prison. 1640 01:28:28,560 --> 01:28:33,360 Speaker 5: How has October seventh given Imran Khan's Khan's relationship with 1641 01:28:34,360 --> 01:28:39,360 Speaker 5: the broader sort of Muslim world and his sort of followers, 1642 01:28:39,400 --> 01:28:42,679 Speaker 5: his base, How has that shifted how the State Department 1643 01:28:42,720 --> 01:28:45,240 Speaker 5: treats i Ran Khan's base. I mean in. 1644 01:28:45,280 --> 01:28:50,600 Speaker 4: Pakistan perhaps second to Airdawan, but not but actually maybe not, 1645 01:28:50,840 --> 01:28:55,280 Speaker 4: Like Imran Khan was probably the most popular Muslim elected 1646 01:28:55,320 --> 01:28:58,400 Speaker 4: official in the world because you know, Airdiwan was not 1647 01:28:58,520 --> 01:29:01,800 Speaker 4: also a famous cricketer. On top of everything that else 1648 01:29:02,040 --> 01:29:06,880 Speaker 4: that that Khan did, ideas and so and so so Khan. 1649 01:29:07,680 --> 01:29:10,760 Speaker 4: If Imron Khan you know, were in power now, he 1650 01:29:10,880 --> 01:29:14,080 Speaker 4: would be kind of a loud voice when it when 1651 01:29:14,120 --> 01:29:16,599 Speaker 4: it came to the Israel Gaza question. 1652 01:29:16,720 --> 01:29:22,960 Speaker 3: Instead, he's you know, completely muzzled, just one. 1653 01:29:22,840 --> 01:29:28,200 Speaker 5: Of the least discussed but most important sort of subplots. 1654 01:29:28,240 --> 01:29:32,120 Speaker 5: So the hot war is happening right now in Geo Apology, and. 1655 01:29:32,040 --> 01:29:36,600 Speaker 4: We interviewed the uh Pakistani ambassador over the intercepted for 1656 01:29:37,160 --> 01:29:38,880 Speaker 4: podcast Intercepted and Deconstructed. 1657 01:29:39,439 --> 01:29:41,439 Speaker 3: The Pakistani Ambassador. 1658 01:29:40,920 --> 01:29:43,320 Speaker 4: To the United Nations you you and permanent representative, and 1659 01:29:43,360 --> 01:29:45,639 Speaker 4: we asked him about Israel Gaza. He actually had served 1660 01:29:45,720 --> 01:29:49,880 Speaker 4: under Khan and serves under the current government and he 1661 01:29:49,960 --> 01:29:53,719 Speaker 4: and he was like, look, the Palestinian cause is extremely 1662 01:29:53,760 --> 01:29:57,599 Speaker 4: popular in Pakistan because and I asked him, you know 1663 01:29:57,600 --> 01:30:01,200 Speaker 4: what why Pakistan had joined the coalition, you know, battling 1664 01:30:01,240 --> 01:30:01,719 Speaker 4: the Hoothies. 1665 01:30:02,200 --> 01:30:04,520 Speaker 3: He's like that, He's like, that would be just completely. 1666 01:30:04,240 --> 01:30:06,479 Speaker 4: Untenable for us to do, like that, what the Hoothies 1667 01:30:06,479 --> 01:30:12,679 Speaker 4: are doing is popular in Pakistan. Yeah, but the Pakistani 1668 01:30:12,760 --> 01:30:15,479 Speaker 4: government isn't isn't being vocal about any of that. 1669 01:30:15,720 --> 01:30:17,559 Speaker 5: Less aggressive neutrality. 1670 01:30:17,280 --> 01:30:21,160 Speaker 4: Yes, like yes, exactly, passive neutrality. 1671 01:30:21,280 --> 01:30:22,640 Speaker 5: Well, I'm really glad we had time to get to 1672 01:30:22,680 --> 01:30:24,720 Speaker 5: the story. And again, so glad they're going to those 1673 01:30:24,840 --> 01:30:27,920 Speaker 5: briefings and we get to watch them respond, even when 1674 01:30:27,960 --> 01:30:29,720 Speaker 5: it's a non answer. A lot of non answers are 1675 01:30:29,720 --> 01:30:30,360 Speaker 5: super helpful. 1676 01:30:30,479 --> 01:30:31,400 Speaker 3: Should be one later today. 1677 01:30:31,400 --> 01:30:33,720 Speaker 5: I'll be there, all right. We'll be watching for that, 1678 01:30:33,960 --> 01:30:36,519 Speaker 5: and maybe we'll have something to talk about next week, Ryan, 1679 01:30:36,600 --> 01:30:39,759 Speaker 5: when we're back with Counterpoints in a week from now. 1680 01:30:39,920 --> 01:30:43,919 Speaker 5: On Wednesday, again, remember to subscribe, because if you subscribe 1681 01:30:43,920 --> 01:30:46,800 Speaker 5: to the premium version of the show, you get all 1682 01:30:46,840 --> 01:30:49,559 Speaker 5: of Counterpoints right in your inbox. Get it early, you 1683 01:30:49,560 --> 01:30:52,839 Speaker 5: get the full video, as opposed to the few videos 1684 01:30:52,880 --> 01:30:55,599 Speaker 5: that are are posted to the channel throughout the day 1685 01:30:55,680 --> 01:30:58,439 Speaker 5: on Wednesday. That one's the full show. So if you're 1686 01:30:58,439 --> 01:31:01,439 Speaker 5: a premium subscriber, if you're not a premium subscriber, make 1687 01:31:01,439 --> 01:31:03,080 Speaker 5: sure to do that. We appreciate it so much. It 1688 01:31:03,120 --> 01:31:06,000 Speaker 5: supports the work that we are so privileged to be 1689 01:31:06,000 --> 01:31:06,639 Speaker 5: able to do here. 1690 01:31:06,840 --> 01:31:09,559 Speaker 3: There might still be twenty five percent off. Don't hold 1691 01:31:09,560 --> 01:31:09,760 Speaker 3: me down. 1692 01:31:09,800 --> 01:31:10,679 Speaker 5: It's a surprise, though. 1693 01:31:11,280 --> 01:31:12,360 Speaker 3: Check Breakingpoints dot com. 1694 01:31:12,439 --> 01:31:14,639 Speaker 5: No it is, we're told, Yes, still is. 1695 01:31:14,560 --> 01:31:16,439 Speaker 3: Twenty percent off. Don't get it quick though. 1696 01:31:16,600 --> 01:31:23,080 Speaker 5: All right, Well, we'll see you guys back here next week.