1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: As media. Hello and welcome to It could happen here today. 2 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: We are talking about white genocide. And when I think 3 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: of genocide, there is only one name that comes to mind, 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:18,280 Speaker 1: and it's Molly Congo. 5 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:19,479 Speaker 2: Molly, welcome. 6 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:24,319 Speaker 1: I just I wanted you to be here as we 7 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: talked about the genocide of the white race. 8 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 3: I mean, who better to talk about it than two 9 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 3: pasty fellows like us. 10 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 1: M hmm, yeah, yeah, I'm sure we're like soon for 11 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: the shopping block here. 12 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 2: Molly, what what's happening? Why? Why are we? Why are we? 13 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: Well, I will explain a little bit of what's happening, 14 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:42,879 Speaker 1: and then you can tell me how on earth we 15 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 1: got here. The United States terminated its refugee admissions program 16 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:51,160 Speaker 1: in January of this year, right when Donald Trump became 17 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: the president and signed a ton of executive orders. So 18 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: since then, the United States has not admitted any refugees. 19 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: In February, it also stopped, you know, States terminated its 20 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: cooperative agreement with refugee resettlement agencies, which meant that even 21 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 1: refugees who had arrived weren't getting the assistance that they 22 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: previously got. However, on the twelfth of May, the United 23 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: States have admitted fifty nine Africana refugees from South Africa, 24 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: and concurrently, Donald Trump told the press that what's happening 25 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: was a genocide of the white people. He said it 26 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:29,320 Speaker 1: wasn't because they were white. He said there was black people, 27 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: he would do the same thing. I mean, there are 28 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: several genocides impacting black people right now, and they are 29 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 1: not getting refuge emissions to the United States. Apparently these 30 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:43,479 Speaker 1: people are being genocided. So, Molly, can you explain what's 31 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: going on here? How the white genocide happened? 32 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 3: Sure, I mean, the short answer to that question is 33 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 3: it is not happening. It is not real. It is 34 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 3: not a thing that is happening, or in my opinion, 35 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 3: really could meaningfully happen under the conditions that they're talking about. 36 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 3: So again, like you said, they have terminated all refugee 37 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 3: resettlement programs. So people coming from active war zones, active 38 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 3: ongoing genocides, people fleeing political persecution all over the world. 39 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 3: They don't deserve our help. They don't need our help anymore. Right, 40 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 3: But these people, these people from South Africa, are uniquely 41 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 3: experiencing the worst thing that can happen to a person. 42 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:24,639 Speaker 3: I guess which is white genocide. So white genocide I 43 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 3: think is often sort of used interchangeably with great replacement theory. 44 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 3: So the white genocide conspiracy theory and the great replacement theory, 45 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:33,919 Speaker 3: I think they're hand in hand. They're very similar, there's 46 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 3: a lot of overlap, and they're used interchangeably, but white 47 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 3: genocide is much more specific and it's more recent iteration 48 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 3: on the theme. It comes from a mid nineties book 49 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:46,920 Speaker 3: written in prison by a new Nazi terrorist named David Lane. 50 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 3: David Lane notably coined the fourteen words we you know, 51 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 3: the fourteen we don't need to say. He had a 52 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 3: lot of anxiety that if we don't do something, white 53 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 3: people will become extinct, will be pushed out of existence 54 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 3: by immigrants who are out breeding us. You know, there's 55 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 3: this sort of concurrent belief that pornography, which is, you know, 56 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 3: in their minds, something that is a Jewish tool of 57 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 3: oppression of the white race. That is, you know, it's 58 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 3: causing us to do interbreeding, it's deluding our bloodlines. So 59 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 3: you know, all of these things together are going to 60 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 3: push white people out of existence, which again not happening, 61 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 3: not true, not a real thing that can happen, but 62 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:31,959 Speaker 3: it's something they're very anxious about. But when you spend 63 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 3: a lot of time talking about how white people are 64 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 3: being pushed out of existence, you've got to be able 65 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 3: to point to something. You have to point to a 66 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 3: place where a white person has been meaningfully harmed, and 67 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 3: they can't really do that. So the talking point that 68 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 3: they fall back on most often when you're talking about 69 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 3: white genocide, you know, you're really wringing your hands about this, 70 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 3: and you have to be able to point to something. 71 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 3: They point to the South African farm murders is this 72 00:03:56,720 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 3: idea that white farmers in South Africa are being targeted 73 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 3: for murder and mass that is this massive ongoing campaign 74 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 3: of violence, which again is not happening and is not true. 75 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 3: There is a more violent crime in the country of 76 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 3: South Africa than in other similarly positioned nations. They do 77 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 3: have a little bit more violent crime than we do here, 78 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:23,160 Speaker 3: for instance, But if you break down the numbers, and 79 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:26,039 Speaker 3: they have they have conducted a multi year study of this, 80 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:30,679 Speaker 3: you know, hypothetical phenomenon. White farmers are not being targeted 81 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 3: for murder. They're not being murdered in larger numbers than 82 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 3: any other demographic. It's just not a thing that's happening. 83 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, it's almost like a laughable claim or 84 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 1: like except that it's also terribly sad when like Israel, 85 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: it's just kind of Babe ruthing a genocide in Gaza. 86 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 1: Now they're not even trying to pretend anymore. They're like, no, 87 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: we're going to kill everyone by starving them. That's what 88 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,720 Speaker 1: we would like to do. And obviously there's people cannot 89 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: enter the United States, it's refugees, but these folks from 90 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 1: South Africa can How did it go from any Nazi 91 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,720 Speaker 1: in prison to the brain of the President of the 92 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 1: United States. 93 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 3: I mean that idea sort of filtered into American right 94 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 3: wing think space over the last I guess thirty years 95 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 3: since Laine wrote that manifesto from prison, slowly and through 96 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 3: multiple origin points. But I have argued repeatedly over the 97 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,039 Speaker 3: last several months that we can point to exactly the 98 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 3: moment that Donald Trump heard about this. There is a 99 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 3: specific moment in time in August of twenty eighteen when 100 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 3: Donald Trump first found out about the plight of the 101 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 3: white South African and I have the date somewhere in 102 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 3: my notes, but it was it was one evening in 103 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 3: August of twenty eighteen when he was watching Tucker Carlson Shocking. 104 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 3: He was watching an episode of Tucker's show back when 105 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,600 Speaker 3: it was still on TV, and he had some policy 106 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,600 Speaker 3: analysts from the Heritage Foundation on to talk about this 107 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 3: terrible thing that's happening. And about forty five minutes after 108 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:00,159 Speaker 3: that segment aired, Donald Trump tweeted the word Africa for 109 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:04,919 Speaker 3: the first time. He has tweeted thousands and thousands and 110 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 3: thousands of times about a lot about Robert Pattinson's relationship 111 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 3: with Kristen Stewart. You know, things about diet coke, things 112 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 3: about vaccines. He tweeted a lot of things, but he 113 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:16,359 Speaker 3: tweeted about Africa for the first time forty five minutes 114 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 3: after the segment on Tucker Carlson. And he had bought 115 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 3: into this idea that these people are being uniquely persecuted. 116 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: God. Yeah, Carlson has mainstreamed a lot of these like 117 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 1: white nationalists talking points, but yeah, this one. And you 118 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: have a really good series on this on your show, right, Like, 119 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 1: if people want to people want to learn more about 120 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 1: the plight of the Africana, you can explain that over 121 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:41,720 Speaker 1: several hours. 122 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 3: Yes, I spent three months sort of tracing this story 123 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 3: in hainstaking detail. If you're interested in checking that out 124 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:50,280 Speaker 3: over on Weird Little Guys. 125 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you should. It's great. 126 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: It's great, good podcast. I highly recommend. So, like, we've 127 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: seen this thing gradually gained momentum, I guess. And then 128 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: at some point, obviously someone got into Trump's here in 129 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: the last month and he made an executive order. 130 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 2: Right, he shared the secretly order. 131 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: I'm going to read from it now, quote refugee resettlement 132 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: and other humanitarian considerations. The Secretary of State and the 133 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 1: Secretary of Homeland Security shall take appropriate steps consistent with 134 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: law to prioritize Yeah. Law, we're going to get to that, 135 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: to prioritize humanitarian relief, including a mission and resettlement through 136 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 1: the United States Refugee Admissions Program for Africanas in South 137 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: Africa who are victims of unjust racial discrimination. Such a 138 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: plan shall be submitted to the President through the Assistant 139 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: to the President and Homeland Security Advisor. 140 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 2: So, like he's asking them to develop a plan. 141 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: Basically for resettling these white South Africans in the United States, right. 142 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 3: Right, So when he says that it's not about race. 143 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 3: Now when he's pushed on that now and he says, oh, 144 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 3: it's not about race. It's not because they're white. They 145 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 3: weren't Africanners years in the executive order. And that doesn't 146 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 3: just mean South. That's not a gemographic term for people 147 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 3: from South Africa. 148 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: It is a. 149 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 3: Racial term for the descendants of Dutch settlers. Those people 150 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 3: are white. 151 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, like by definition, right, they are white South Africans. 152 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: They are like therefore definitionly the group that benefited from 153 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: the aparthe idea very much so. As if this wasn't 154 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: clear enough, Christopher Landau appeared at a press conference meeting 155 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: these refugees wearing an orange white and blue tie. It's 156 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: quite a unique tie. I actually googled orange white and 157 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 1: blue tie. Can find one for people who are not familiar. 158 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: That is the part idea of flag of the Republic 159 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: of South Africa. 160 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 3: That is a deep cut. The decision to use that 161 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 3: particular color scheme when you're greeting these bore refugees is 162 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 3: very intentional and very odd. 163 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's got to be a choice, right, Like, no 164 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: one has a striped orange white and navy blue tie 165 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: like lying around. 166 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,439 Speaker 3: And the sort of dedication to reviving that as a 167 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 3: symbol is not without precedent. So with Dylan Roof, the 168 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 3: Charleston church murderer had on patches, he had the flag 169 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,199 Speaker 3: of Rhodesia. Obviously they love Rhodesia. Yeah, but he had 170 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 3: the apartheid era orange, white and blue South African flag 171 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 3: m M. And that was strange and unique enough as 172 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 3: a symbol that an American would dig up and identify with. Yes, 173 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 3: So the South African press noted it at the time 174 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 3: of the Charleston church shooting. 175 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was not in the mainstream. 176 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 3: That is a troubling sartorial choice. 177 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:39,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's it is worrying, Like, like you say, 178 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:43,319 Speaker 1: there's a line from the from the Africanas through Dylan 179 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: Roof too. 180 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 2: It's horrific ideology. 181 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: Right. Do you know what what probably doesn't have a 182 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: direct line to a part We can't be sure of that, 183 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: I guess, but hopefully hopefully that these products and services 184 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 1: do not have a direct through line from apartheid. 185 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 3: Well, probably it's not the Washington State Patrol again. 186 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, we're back. Hopefully that was something nice. 187 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:14,439 Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit about the US 188 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: Refugee of Missions program. So I think people sometimes misunderstand 189 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:21,960 Speaker 1: the program, what it means, where it comes from, who 190 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 1: it's for. So to begin with, like, I want to 191 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: distinguish between asylum seekers and refugees because I think in 192 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 1: like the popular lexicon, these two words are used interchangeably. 193 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 1: A refugee is outside of the United States and makes 194 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: an application through the US Refugee of Missions program, and 195 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 1: that application is processed and approved or rejected or delayed 196 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 1: or you know, left for years and years and years 197 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: while they are outside the United States. An asylum seeker 198 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: is someone who is either inside the United States or 199 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: presenting at the border of the United States and requesting 200 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:56,560 Speaker 1: the asylum. 201 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 2: So they're different categories. 202 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: Right. Generally, to be a refugee, one has to register 203 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: with the United Nations High Commission on Refugees, and thus 204 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: one has to have fled one's home country. It's somewhat 205 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 1: notable that this flight came from Johannesburg, right, Like these 206 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 1: people were in South Africa. 207 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 3: Well, the apparently DHS set up office space in Pretoria, 208 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 3: and they were conducted these interviews in Pretoria. 209 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: Right, which again is unusual. Right, So you have to 210 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 1: normally go to a resettlement support center, right, And I 211 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 1: want to talk about the process of background checks in 212 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 1: a minute, because surprise surprises didn't happen here, at least 213 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: not as far as I'm aware. If it did, it 214 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: to the most expedited version of this process that we've 215 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: ever seen. So these refugees have been admitted as P 216 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: one refugees, and people talk about P one like it's 217 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 1: a visa category. 218 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 3: It's not. 219 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:57,559 Speaker 1: Actually, it's a priority category. There are four priority categories 220 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 1: for people getting refugee visas. P one cases, the highest 221 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: priority are normally referred by embassies, the United Nations High 222 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 1: Commision on Refugees, or non governmental organizations. If people have 223 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 1: heard of this at all, it's probably with reference to 224 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 1: Afghan folks who worked with the United States who are 225 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,319 Speaker 1: not being omitted in the United States refugee emission program 226 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: right now. Some of them are stuck in third countries, 227 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 1: even at airports if they don't have a visa for 228 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 1: that third country, right, waiting to work out like what 229 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: the US is going to do this time after lying 230 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,439 Speaker 1: to them for decades and letting them down again. 231 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 3: And unlike these real estate agents from Johannesburg, they can't 232 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 3: just go back home. 233 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,079 Speaker 1: Yeah, right, like that they actually have fear of persecution 234 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: if they do, which is not the case for you 235 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 1: South African folks. P two are people like there are 236 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:52,319 Speaker 1: special groups designated for humanitarian concern like some congut these 237 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: people living in Rwanda in the past, and Permese groups 238 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:00,679 Speaker 1: living in Thailand have been P two three are family 239 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 1: reunification cases, so you can you know, if one person 240 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: has refugee stats to come to the United States so 241 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 1: they can bring the rest of their family. And then 242 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: P four are people who have sponsors to something called 243 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: the Welcome Core. Familiar with a Welcome Core, Molly, I 244 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 1: am not, no. It sounds like the coolest brand to 245 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: the military, you know, like like you got the Marines 246 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: and then the Welcome Core next door. The Welcome Call 247 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 1: was set up in twenty twenty three by the Biden 248 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 1: administration to allow five US citizens I think a minimum 249 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: of five to get together to sponsor someone for refugee 250 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: admission for the United States and basically take responsibility for 251 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 1: their housing and for like reorienting them in the US community, right, 252 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 1: getting their kids enrolled in school, helping them find a job, 253 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. It was a cool program. 254 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:51,439 Speaker 1: It lasted less than two years. That Donald Trump rolled 255 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: that up in January of twenty twenty five, so we 256 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 1: don't really have P four cases anymore. So all admissions 257 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 1: were holding in January and February, the government, as I said, 258 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 1: cut all cooperative agreements with resettlement agencies. So let's talk 259 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 1: about what the normal process looks like for refugees. Generally, 260 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 1: they require several years of background checks and interviews. For many, 261 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 1: it's not possible in their countries for most right, for instance, 262 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: there is not a resettlement support center in Afghanistan, so 263 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 1: people have to leave. That's how you see them in 264 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: Pakistan right. What you're seeing now actually is Afghan people 265 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: who are in Pakistan have timed out on their visas 266 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: in Pakistan, so they're now facing immigration enforcement there because 267 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 1: they haven't been able to get resettled in the US 268 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: before their Pakistan visa expires. They go through medical and 269 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: biometric checks. There are at least two interviews. There are 270 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 1: security checks. When they do their first interview, they have 271 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: to give in things like their identifying documents, work history, 272 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 1: declare on their family relationships, all that kind of stuff. 273 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: Then they have an interview with US Citizenship and Immigration 274 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 1: services after that. Then if they are admitted, they take 275 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: cultural orientation classes before traveling. If that's when you learn 276 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 1: how to be an American. Right, I don't know what involves, 277 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: but they have to take those before they come. And 278 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 1: then the US government works with the iom for travel right, 279 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 1: and that travel is funded through a zero interest loan 280 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 1: to the refugee. So like in every other case, you 281 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 1: pay for your flight, you have to pay it back 282 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 1: starting six months when you get to the United States. 283 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 2: That has not been. 284 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: The case for our Africana refugee friends, right that it 285 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: appears that the United States government chartered a flight on 286 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: their behalf. Once the refugees arrive, they are referred to 287 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: a resettlement agency. Some of the names people might be 288 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: familiar with are like Highest their Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society, 289 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: who have literally been resettling refugees since the refugee in 290 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: asylum seeker category was created, right as a response to 291 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: the Holocaust. Maybe IRC is another one people are familiar with. 292 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 3: Which, interestingly, HIAS was the target of ire of a 293 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 3: great replacement theory motivated mass shooter here in America. Yes, 294 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 3: Babert Robert Bauers posted a lot about HYAS in the 295 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 3: days and weeks before he carried out that mass shooting. 296 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, the Tree of Life Synagogue, right, people aren't familiar. Yeah, 297 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: And that was at the time of the quote unquote 298 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: migrant caravan fall of twenty eighteen. 299 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 3: Would it, Yes, that would be that time period. 300 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a pretty big time. I was in 301 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 1: Tijuana a lot at that time with seeing the migrant 302 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: caravan folks for interviewing folks trying to help. Yeah, coming 303 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: back to that was I remember thinking, like, what a 304 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: fucked up world. So those people didn't get refuge emissions, right, 305 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 1: those people were here seeking asylum. The system right now 306 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: is suspended, right, and as many as twelve thousand people 307 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 1: who have been approved are waiting for travel authorization come 308 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: to the United States. 309 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 2: So they're completely in limbo. 310 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 3: Right, You're in limbo and at great personal risk. 311 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they're in I mean, people spend twenty years 312 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:06,440 Speaker 1: in refugee camps waiting to be admitted to the United States. 313 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 1: And like, it's hard for me to describe I tried 314 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:13,479 Speaker 1: to in my Darian Gap series, Right, how desperately sad 315 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: refugee camps are as places, right, And I think people 316 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:18,880 Speaker 1: think of refugee camps as like, oh, you go there 317 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: for a few weeks and you sleep under a big 318 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: white ten. 319 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 3: No children are born and raised there. 320 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. 321 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: People live their whole lives in refugee camps, you know, 322 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:29,239 Speaker 1: they're the ones that they tied Bermesport. Have been there 323 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 1: since the nineteen forties. But they live their whole lives 324 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: often without even basic essential services. Right. I did see, 325 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:38,360 Speaker 1: for instance, highest had a little school in LaaS Blancas, 326 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:40,959 Speaker 1: which is one of these un refugee camps in Panama. 327 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: The reason they have a little school is because children 328 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: spend so long there that they miss out on their 329 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,360 Speaker 1: education if they don't have a little school for them. 330 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 3: And so that's just like insult to injury in this 331 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 3: whole process, right. It's not only is he shutting off 332 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 3: this avenue for refugee status for everyone else and giving 333 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 3: it to these people who, you know, I think it's 334 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,440 Speaker 3: fair to say don't deserve it. Yeah, but he's made 335 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 3: this process so simple and so easy and so painless, 336 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,719 Speaker 3: and that not only are they not fleeing persecution, but 337 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:11,159 Speaker 3: they're getting this fast tracked, this easy pass. 338 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, and like we're paying for it. I mean I 339 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 1: remember recently some friends and I were helping someone who'd 340 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:21,119 Speaker 1: be admitted to the US not as a refuge actually 341 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 1: on a different visa category. But like they were really 342 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: having a hard time navigating the basics and funding that, 343 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: so like we were able to help them out. 344 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 3: I mean, obviously, international immigration is a difficult process. It 345 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 3: wouldn't be easy. I mean you and you've immigrated internationally, right, 346 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 3: It's not a simple process. No, But looking at the 347 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 3: people who have taken Trump up on this offer of 348 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 3: refugee resettlement, these appeared to be people who could have 349 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:50,679 Speaker 3: simply immigrated had they chosen to. 350 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:53,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems that way. They could have just moved. 351 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, they could have I mean come here on like 352 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 1: a B one visa or like, I mean, pathways to 353 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: citizenship relatively rare if you just, like, say you want 354 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 1: to move to the US, right, like you just want 355 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: to become an American unless you have a bunch of money. So, 356 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: like these guys will have a pathway citizenship. It's not 357 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:13,920 Speaker 1: quite clear how Trump said that they will have one. 358 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,119 Speaker 1: What does that mean? I know, normally, if you're admitted 359 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,439 Speaker 1: as a refugee, you can file for permanent residency in 360 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 1: a year, and then after a number of years you 361 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:23,680 Speaker 1: can file to be a citizen. 362 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,400 Speaker 3: I just noticed as we're talking, so, you know, I'm 363 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 3: not familiar with how the process normally works. Like that's 364 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 3: that's your wheelhouse. That's something you're very familiar with, so 365 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,399 Speaker 3: maybe this is normal. It just looks strange to me. 366 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:35,680 Speaker 3: So I've been on vacation the last week, so I'm 367 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 3: just back today. So I just opened up the Embassy's 368 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 3: website because you know, as I was writing this story 369 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 3: and sort of tracking this as it developed, there wasn't 370 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,640 Speaker 3: good guidance from the Consulate on what this process would 371 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 3: look like. So I'm just looking at it again today 372 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 3: and they have updated it as of yesterday. This is 373 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 3: the US Embassy and Consulate in South Africa. New update yesterday. 374 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,919 Speaker 3: There is a form you can fill out, James. It's 375 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:01,399 Speaker 3: a Google doc. It is a Google form. The US 376 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 3: Embassy website has a linked to Google form that you 377 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 3: can fill out if you want to become great. 378 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 1: I'm sure that's highly secure. Yeah, ah wow, Well it's funny. 379 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: I was on that web site earlier today as well. 380 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: That is oh dear, that is sad. I mean, yeah, 381 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 1: I don't think a Google dot can possibly be as 382 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 1: secure as it would need to be to have the 383 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: amount of information the government gets on you when you 384 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,679 Speaker 1: become a refugee. Is all the information right? Just to 385 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: outline the criteria. To be eligible for US resettlement consideration, 386 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,239 Speaker 1: individuals must meet the following criteria. They must be of 387 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 1: South African nationality and must be of African ethnicity or 388 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:48,439 Speaker 1: be a member of a racial minority in South Africa. 389 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 3: I thought it wasn't about race, Yeah, I thought. I 390 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 3: thought it wasn't about race. 391 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:55,919 Speaker 2: Games Yeah, right, it seems. 392 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: And then they must be able to articulate a past 393 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:02,440 Speaker 1: experience of persecution or fear of future persecution. What they 394 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 1: don't mention here is that, like normally, there are protected 395 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:08,640 Speaker 1: categories into which refugees and asylum seekers have to fit. Right, 396 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: there's a race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social 397 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:15,120 Speaker 1: group or political opinion. I mean, I guess, I guess 398 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: you could argue that like the Africanas are not per 399 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: se a race, right, like like there are there could 400 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,439 Speaker 1: be It's conceivable that one could be white kind of 401 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 1: South African nationality but not be African. 402 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:29,400 Speaker 3: Oh very much, so, very much so. I mean, there's 403 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:33,359 Speaker 3: a African is a very specific sort of genealogical lineage. 404 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, and like, which is which. 405 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 3: Is why I think they have been careful here to 406 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 3: say or a member of a racial minority, because they're saying, like, look, 407 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:43,399 Speaker 3: we're not going to do the genealogy. We don't we 408 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 3: don't care if your great grandfather was Dutch. We just 409 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 3: need you to be white. We just need you to 410 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:47,640 Speaker 3: be white. 411 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, when you arrive, you can do a twenty three 412 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,399 Speaker 1: and meter test and then they do your percentage and 413 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: you know, then they put you back on the plane. 414 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:55,919 Speaker 3: No, they just got the pantone color scale. They're just 415 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:57,879 Speaker 3: going to hold up huge colored paint hip. 416 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, they get you at what's it called fucking the 417 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: paint shop there where you go in and they mix 418 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 1: it for you. So yeah, they don't mention these protected 419 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: categories here. The US State Department a set has received 420 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 1: eight thousand inquiries from people seeking information about the refue program. 421 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 1: That's a lot of people. That is a large number 422 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:32,400 Speaker 1: of people. The Episcopal Church here in the United States, right, 423 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 1: not like a notably woke organization, I would say Episcopal. 424 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: I mean they do Episcopal migration ministries do good work. 425 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 1: You won't find me shaped talking that they do good 426 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,479 Speaker 1: things for people who need help. It has ended its 427 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 1: partnership with the United States government. So I'm going to 428 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,679 Speaker 1: read a little bit here from Presiding Bishop Sean wrote 429 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 1: first time for me, quoting a bishop on the podcast. 430 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 1: Since January, the previously bipart in the US refuge ad 431 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 1: missions program in which we participate has a central shut down. 432 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 1: Virtually no new refugees have arrived, Hundreds of staff and 433 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: resettlement agencies around the country have been laid off, and 434 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 1: funding for resettling refugees who have already arrived has been uncertain. Then, 435 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 1: just over two weeks ago, the federal government informed episcical 436 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,240 Speaker 1: migration ministries that under the terms of our federal grant, 437 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: we are expected to resettle white Africanas from South Africa, 438 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 1: whom the US government has classified as refugees. In light 439 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: of our church's steadfast commitment to racial justice and reconciliation 440 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,400 Speaker 1: and our historic ties was the Anglican Church of South Africa, 441 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 1: we're not able to take this step. Accordingly, we have 442 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,680 Speaker 1: determined that by the end of the federal fiscal year, 443 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 1: we will conclude our refugee resettlement grand agreements with the 444 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:42,160 Speaker 1: US Federal government skipping a bit. Then, it has been 445 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 1: painful to watch one group of refugees, selected in a 446 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,959 Speaker 1: highly unusual manner, received preferential treatment over many others who 447 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 1: have been waiting in refugee camps or dangerous conditions for years. 448 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 1: I am saddened and ashamed that many of the refugees 449 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: who are being denied entrance to the United States are 450 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 1: brave people who worked alongside our military in Iraq and 451 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: Afghanistan and now face danger at home because it has 452 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,920 Speaker 1: service to our country. They also grieve that victims of 453 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 1: religious persecution, including Christians, have not been granted refuge in 454 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:09,120 Speaker 1: recent months. 455 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,399 Speaker 3: Good for them, honestly, Yeah, like because I think, I 456 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 3: mean think maybe people don't think about this or don't 457 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 3: realize that a lot of these programs like this is 458 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 3: a federally grant funded federal program through a partnership with 459 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,680 Speaker 3: the Episcopal Church. Like you know, in the early days 460 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:25,399 Speaker 3: of DOSEE, you know, they were saying, like, oh, we 461 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 3: found all this wasteful spending, all this you know, suspicious 462 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 3: payments to these religious organizations. Those are social programs we 463 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 3: have outsourced. We have outsourced all of these government functions 464 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 3: to these church based social programs. You know, for better 465 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 3: or worse. Say about that what you will, but that 466 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 3: is in fact, how many of these things function. 467 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, like when I think about like you know, I've 468 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: spent a decent amount of time in refugee camps. The 469 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,640 Speaker 1: majority of the services there are provided by faith paid programs. 470 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 1: Highest there's Bethtal World Ministries. I think it's called Catholic Charity, 471 00:24:55,680 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: Piscopalian migration ministries. There's caulca Aid, the SEK Group, right, 472 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: I don't think they receive any federal Maybe I don't 473 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: think they receive federal funding. 474 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 3: But I think for the Episcopal Church as a massive 475 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,639 Speaker 3: organization to come out and say, yeah, we won't dirty 476 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 3: our hands with this, that's incredible. 477 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: No, it's great, and like more organizations should. I think 478 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: they're being resettled in Virginia for the most part. 479 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:20,719 Speaker 2: Good. 480 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 3: That's where I live. 481 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 2: James, Oh good, yeah, great. Well you know you could 482 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 2: take one in money. 483 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: You could have a little African to come live with 484 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 1: you like a god. 485 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 3: So Charlottesville where I live. 486 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 2: Oh, you'll get some. 487 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 3: It's home to a large number of Afghan refugee families. 488 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,200 Speaker 3: It's like I know people who work with our new 489 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 3: Afghan neighbors, and like helping them get settled in our community, 490 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 3: and helping women get driver's license and get them sewing 491 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 3: machines so they can sew their traditional garments at home, 492 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,640 Speaker 3: and like it's a beautiful community effort to welcome these 493 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 3: people into our town. But I just can't I just 494 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 3: can't imagine the worst people on Earth coming here. 495 00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, well you can help with sewing machine, right, you 496 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,720 Speaker 1: can help us sow up a little little pre pre 497 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: Rainbow Nation South Africa flag for them. But yeah, it 498 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 1: is like I've helped people arriving here on refugee visas, 499 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,680 Speaker 1: and like it's actually a really really affirming and wonderful 500 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 1: thing to do in your community. And like now it's 501 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,439 Speaker 1: a time when you can still do that. All the 502 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:23,719 Speaker 1: people who were resettled here before January. The funding that 503 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 1: was supposed to help their kids enroll in school, that 504 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: were supposed. 505 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 2: To help especially women learn to drive, right, that were. 506 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,680 Speaker 1: Supposed to help people orient themselves in the US, find education, 507 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 1: find work right. As a person who moved to America, 508 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: it is a very confusing place. You have like seventy 509 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: five different layers of government, none of them really want 510 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: to help you that says a lot of forms to 511 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: fill in. The rent is insane, right, and then you 512 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: add people drive like fucking maniacs, so like. 513 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 3: And we don't have healthcarerier James, I'm sure that was 514 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,359 Speaker 3: a culture shock for you. But like so when I 515 00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 3: was poking around in some of these Facebook groups for 516 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,440 Speaker 3: these for the South Africans who are sort of interested 517 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,479 Speaker 3: in maybe seeking this opportunity, and they were talking about 518 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 3: sort of the pros and cons and whether they would go, 519 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 3: and how the pole process was going to work. And 520 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 3: the one fear that I saw come up over and 521 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 3: over again is like, well I heard the healthcare is 522 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 3: pretty bad. 523 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 1: There is, yeah, dude, it is, damn yeah, damn yeah. 524 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. 525 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 1: In some states, right, there are state funded like safety 526 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 1: net programs. I don't know about Virginia. 527 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 3: Well I'm sure. I'm sure as America's special and only refugees, 528 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 3: they will be afforded access to all available programs. 529 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll put them on trycare after we've kicked the 530 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 1: transfolks off. That's how they're making up for the gap. 531 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty bleak. 532 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,399 Speaker 1: Honestly, I would really encourage folks, like, if you are 533 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: listening to this and thinking, Oh, it fucking sucks that 534 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,959 Speaker 1: those people have not been granted refugee status. I'm thinking 535 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,399 Speaker 1: of like, I met a woman from Zimbabwe when I 536 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: was in Dari and Gap who had come with her daughter. Right, 537 00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 1: she had face persecution at home in Zimbabwe, a country 538 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,160 Speaker 1: that is not Rhodesia anymore. We're keeping score in. 539 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 3: The country that was never Rhodesia. Rhodesia never existed. 540 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, right, Yeah, she went to South Africa right to 541 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: attempt to be safe, and persecution followed her that. So 542 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,160 Speaker 1: then she took this journey all across the America's carrying 543 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 1: her kid through the through the jungles and over the 544 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 1: mountains and through the rivers. And that's where I met them, 545 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:24,400 Speaker 1: and we've stayed in touch. 546 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 4: Right. 547 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: She's in the United States now, she's working on her 548 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 1: asylum process and it is expensive and it is by 549 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,919 Speaker 1: no means secure. And this is like a woman who 550 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: has faced who fits multiple categories, right, and they've protected 551 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 1: they've protected categories here. Right, It's going to be very 552 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 1: hard and very expensive for her. And it really genuinely 553 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 1: fucking breaks my heart to see someone who like would 554 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 1: be such an asset to any community who was such 555 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 1: a ray of light, even in some of the hardest 556 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 1: places I've ever been. She might not get to stay 557 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: here and these folks will and that really makes me sad. 558 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: But yeah, if you have a chance in your community. 559 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 1: Like almost the way I sometimes find out about refugees 560 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 1: arriving or being settled is like on next door and 561 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 1: realist next door is mostly a site for aging racist 562 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 1: but like sometimes people will be like, hey, there's an 563 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: Afghan family here and they don't Like one of the 564 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: things in California is that you can rent a house 565 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 1: and they don't have to give you a fridge. Yeah, 566 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,479 Speaker 1: a fridge is like a luxury, it's not it's not 567 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: for the pause. So like trying to help people find 568 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 1: a fridge before Ramadan, right, Like I have a truck, 569 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 1: a bigger guy. I can lift a fridge into the 570 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 1: back of my truck. If someone has a fridge they 571 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 1: don't want, so, like that's the thing I can do 572 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: to help, and it makes me happy to do that. Then, 573 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 1: like I can carry a fridge upstairs, Like that's not 574 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 1: something you can do. There are a million other things 575 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 1: you can do, right, including just like having people over 576 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 1: for dinner, cooking food for them, offering to take them 577 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 1: out on a walk and show them your neighborhood. Like 578 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 1: there are so many ways that you can welcome people, 579 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 1: and like people aren't newly arriving, there are people who 580 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: are still recently arrived who really could do with some help. 581 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 1: The government isn't paying for any more. We can't stop 582 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,960 Speaker 1: the government paying for flights for Africanas. But like, you 583 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 1: can do something, You can do something positive and will 584 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 1: maybe make you feel better about the fact that you know, 585 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 1: your taxpayer dollars are bringing the the poor, downtrodden Africanas 586 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 1: from from South Africa to neighborhoods named Molly. 587 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 3: And it's just such an ugly intersection, right, this is 588 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:34,720 Speaker 3: not just like our adult brained president falling victim to 589 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 3: a racist conspiracy three that he saw on Tucker Carlson, right, 590 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 3: like that that's how the idea got into his mind. 591 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 3: But I think this resurgence of his alleged interest in 592 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 3: the plight of the white South African is this terrible 593 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 3: intersection of personal grievance and financial interest, right that. You know, 594 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 3: it's no coincidence that the text of the executive order, 595 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 3: it's not just about like you know, whites are being persecuted. 596 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 3: But there is a hot shot on the side in 597 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 3: the first section of the executive Order that, like well 598 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 3: and South Africa has been very unfair to Israel, right 599 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 3: that South Africa being a leading voice in the international 600 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 3: community on the genocide in Gaza is part of this. 601 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 3: That the inded they need to be punished for their 602 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 3: advocacy against the genocide when their ambassador was expelled. It 603 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 3: was not a coincidence that he is a Muslim South 604 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 3: African who has been very vocal about the genocide in Gaza, 605 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 3: and that he appears in public in a kufia that 606 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,240 Speaker 3: he's when he was when he returned to South Africa 607 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 3: after being expelled from the United States. He was talking 608 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 3: about Palestine when he got home, and that's not a coincidence. 609 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 3: And it's also not a coincidence that Elon Musk is 610 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,800 Speaker 3: currently fighting to launch Starlink in South Africa. 611 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is sort. 612 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 3: Of a longer explanation which just sort of in brief. 613 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 3: Since apartheid ended in nineteen ninety four, they have racial 614 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 3: equality laws that if you have a national level company 615 00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 3: something like starlink, some that you're going to provide a 616 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 3: national a telecommunications contract that serves the whole country. There 617 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 3: has to be some black ownership of the country. They're 618 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 3: not saying that there can be no white executives. They're 619 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 3: not saying, you know, white people aren't allowed to do business, 620 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 3: but there has to be some black ownership stake in 621 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 3: the company. And large corporations around the world manage this 622 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 3: by establishing a local subsidiary that is owned locally by 623 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 3: a majority of black shareholders. Microsoft does it, like every 624 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 3: big company does it. Companies operate in South Africa. Yeah, 625 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 3: international corporations operate in South Africa, and they do it 626 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 3: every day and they do it easily. But Elon Musk 627 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 3: refuses to do that. He refuses to have any black 628 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 3: ownership steak in his company or a local subsidiary. So 629 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 3: he's not allowed to have Starlink there. And so over 630 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 3: the last couple of months he's been, you know, walking 631 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 3: out of meetings, he's been you know, yelling at the 632 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 3: President of South Africa about how he's racist against white 633 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 3: people and so like, this is personal, it's financial, and 634 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 3: it is a racist conspiracy theory and now we're all 635 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:55,480 Speaker 3: having to live it. 636 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's also not a comingcidence. So like Musk has 637 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 1: started interacting with some of these like white farmer accounts 638 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 1: on his racism map, right like that. I think that one. 639 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 1: I think it's maybe its screen name is just boar 640 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 1: or Oh yes. 641 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:13,400 Speaker 3: A South African news site recently unmasked that particular individual. 642 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 2: Oh cool. 643 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, I haven't read the article yet. Like I said, 644 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 3: I've been on vacation, but they're they're on the case. 645 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, great, good. 646 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,320 Speaker 3: And I think about these, you know, wide identity South 647 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 3: African nationalist kinds of guys. Is Apartheid wasn't that long ago? 648 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 2: Yeah? 649 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:30,920 Speaker 3: Thirty years ago? Right, So anybody fifty year older who's 650 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 3: talking a lot about wide identity in South Africa, I 651 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 3: would just like to ask you, what were you doing 652 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety? Yeah, just tell me who you were 653 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 3: hanging out with in nineteen ninety because I have questions. 654 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I remember the end of apartheid very like 655 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,440 Speaker 1: that's one of my earlier like political memories. I remember, 656 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 1: like Nelson Mandela coming out at the Rugby World Cup 657 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 1: in ninety ninety five, like that being a big people 658 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 1: like I guess maybe our listeners, a lot of our 659 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 1: listeners are younger than me. But like, South Africa was 660 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,440 Speaker 1: something of a pariah state under apartheid, right, Like they 661 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,480 Speaker 1: couldn't wouldn't even play sports with them. They didn't even 662 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 1: go to the IOC Olympic Games. And the IOC not 663 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: not an anti racist organization organization which famously sent the 664 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:13,680 Speaker 1: Olympic Games to Adolf Hitler's Germany. But yeah, they were 665 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,319 Speaker 1: a complete global pariah. And to have gone from that 666 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,839 Speaker 1: to like the US has to intervene in the plight 667 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 1: of the persecuted African within my lifetime, it's pretty fucking bleak. 668 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,360 Speaker 3: It is a quick turnaround and an ugly one. But 669 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,800 Speaker 3: like I said, the average white South African who is 670 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 3: very vocal about white rights may have a very close 671 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 3: connection to a very recent act of terrorism, if you 672 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 3: know what I'm saying. Yeah, they're not just talk. It 673 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:43,400 Speaker 3: was very violent in the early nineties. 674 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, Molly's done some good stuff on the yeah, 675 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 1: and on the violence of white South Africans. And I guess, yeah, 676 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 1: what folks in the US who are inspired by them? 677 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 1: Molly did, do you have anything you want to you 678 00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 1: want to plug? Otherwords, way, I guess you want to plug. 679 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I'm keeping an eye on their treeson 680 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,319 Speaker 3: Case against Affro Forum. I think, I mean, it's just 681 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:08,520 Speaker 3: political talk, but it's fun. 682 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:08,960 Speaker 2: We'll see. 683 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 3: Apparently the investigation is ongoing, but no. If you are 684 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:15,359 Speaker 3: interested in more about how this happened, I did an 685 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,480 Speaker 3: eight part series about political violence at the end of 686 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,880 Speaker 3: apartheid and its connections to American neo Nazis. You can 687 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,359 Speaker 3: check that out on Weird Little Guys. It's a good time. 688 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:26,960 Speaker 3: I think there's a really fun episode about a Dulf 689 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,240 Speaker 3: Lundgren movie from the late eighties that was secretly funded 690 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,399 Speaker 3: by South African military intelligence. Yeah, it's a good time 691 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:35,080 Speaker 3: and uh, we live in hell. 692 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,200 Speaker 4: It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 693 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,400 Speaker 4: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 694 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 4: coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 695 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,719 Speaker 4: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 696 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,120 Speaker 4: now find sources for It Could Happen here listed directly 697 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 4: in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.