1 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, alongside 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. 3 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:09,720 Speaker 2: Every business day we bring you interviews from CEOs, market pros, 4 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 2: and Bloomberg experts, along with essential market moving news. 5 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 3: Find the Bloomberg. 6 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: Markets Podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, 7 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:22,080 Speaker 1: and at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. Greg Ebel joins us. 8 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: He's the CEO of n Bridge Energy. It's in New 9 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: York Stock Exchange listed company the tickers e n BE. 10 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 1: The company reported some earnings today, So Greg, talk to 11 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: us about thanks so much for joining us here. Talk 12 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:37,199 Speaker 1: to us about kind of what you guys reported with 13 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:39,560 Speaker 1: your latest earnings results and kind of what's the outlook 14 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 1: you're telling the street these days. 15 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, Matt, Paul, great to be with you again. 16 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 3: And yeah, a very solid quarter both operationally and financially 17 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 3: for us, right across all of our business. You know, 18 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 3: we saw record volumes and results on the liquid's business, 19 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 3: our mainline pipeline system saw record volumes, our export facility 20 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 3: record volumes, and so we beat obviously the street estimates 21 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 3: for the quarter, which is great, and we confirmed that 22 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 3: we would meet our goals for the full year, and 23 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 3: we announced a little bit of tucky in m and A. 24 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 3: You know, we bought some renewable offshore wind facilities that 25 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:24,320 Speaker 3: we'd originally participated in in Germany, and then renewable natural 26 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 3: gas facilities in the United States, all very long term contracts, 27 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 3: you know, ten years or more, and all very consistent 28 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 3: with that, you know, all of the above approach that 29 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:38,040 Speaker 3: I think the public wanted, investors want, and that actually 30 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 3: creates a lot of value for us. We're pretty excited 31 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 3: about the road ahead. 32 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 2: Why is I mean, the stock's up today, but why 33 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 2: is it down thirteen percent year today? What's is it 34 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 2: the underlying commodity that's a problem. Is it concerned about demand? 35 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 2: What's holding the stock down? 36 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 3: You know what we have been in, very proudly so 37 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 3: for decades, increase the dividend year after year, very utility 38 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 3: like in that structure. And as you know, you guys 39 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 3: pointed off just a few minutes ago, with interest rates 40 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:16,359 Speaker 3: that have been up, that impacts dividend paying stocks like ourselves. 41 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 3: And as you've seen in the last call it four days, 42 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 3: what we've seen forty to fifty sixty basis points coming 43 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 3: in on the ten year You've seen the stocks that 44 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 3: pay dividends react. So it's not the commodity it's not 45 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 3: energy demand we see up those we don't have commodity exposure. 46 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 3: Really is that ten year interest rate side of things. 47 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 3: So that's a macro factor that frankly, I can't do 48 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 3: anything about. What we can do is make sure the 49 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:47,079 Speaker 3: company runs well, meets its earnings targets, and continues to 50 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 3: build up both organic growth and some of these acquisitions. 51 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: Greg talk to us about again. You mentioned some of 52 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: these acquisitions and the investments you make in renewables. Realistically, 53 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 1: do you have a good handle on the types of 54 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 1: returns you can get on renewables. Feels like maybe some 55 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: of the shine is off that side of the energy business. 56 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 3: Well, it's a good point. I think investors are starting 57 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 3: to figure out that they are. You know, renewables are 58 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 3: all not built the same, right, So those that have 59 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 3: long term contracts in other words, you know, ten fifteen 60 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 3: year contracts with great counterparties, So larger utilities or big industrials, 61 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 3: those are the ones you want to participate in because 62 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 3: you know they've got a guarantee price set on that power. 63 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 3: They've got a great investment, great customer that's taking that 64 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 3: power and you're going to get paid. Those that are 65 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 3: kind of going in a merchant world and haven't got 66 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 3: these things contracted or in jurisdictions where it's extremely difficult 67 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 3: to build things, which is a lot of jurisdictions these days. 68 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 3: I think you're seeing those entities being you know, a 69 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 3: lot tougher to get the returns that the ones I 70 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 3: previously talked about, which is why our renewable business, which 71 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 3: we've actually been in for twenty years, is all about 72 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 3: that contracted business. So our European stuff, you know, our 73 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 3: customers are folks like EDF Electricity de France or the 74 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 3: government in Germany, and then here in the US, most 75 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 3: of our customers would be utility like players. And even 76 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 3: on the renewable natural gas tuck in that we had today, 77 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 3: we have ten year contracts with the likes of BP 78 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 3: and Shell. So I think and I think this is 79 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 3: great for companies like Enbridge who have done it on 80 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 3: a low risk basis that you're going to see differentiation. 81 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 3: Those that have actually structured their businesses to create good returns, 82 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 3: double digit returns are going to be rewarded, while those 83 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 3: that have gone more merchanty. I think that's going to 84 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 3: be a tough slug for them. 85 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 2: Where do you see demand going for energy? I mean, 86 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 2: as we see the jobs numbers miss and as we 87 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 2: expect either a soft landing or a recession, I imagine 88 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 2: demand slows down. Is that the case? 89 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 3: Yeah? You know, typically energy is a about two thirds 90 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 3: of GDP, and another words, energy growth grows about two 91 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 3: thirds of GDP. So if you thought GDP was going 92 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 3: to be three percent, you get energy at two. That's one. Two. 93 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 3: People don't shut off their lights and they don't turn 94 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 3: off the gas in their house, even when you've you're 95 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:20,720 Speaker 3: in a recession. Where you see it is on some 96 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 3: of the industrial love but most of our stuff is 97 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 3: for ultimately residential players. So I don't see that has 98 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 3: a big impact. But remember we're building assets for ten 99 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 3: twenty years. So virtually every report that you would see 100 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:40,039 Speaker 3: globally in the United States, we will be using more 101 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 3: energy ten years from now than we use today, and 102 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 3: particularly so in developing countries. You're going to see them 103 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 3: continue to move up the economic food chain and that 104 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,279 Speaker 3: always requires more energy. So some of our assets on 105 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 3: the export side of things, whether it's our liquefied natural 106 00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 3: gas export facilities we're building on the West coast of Canada, 107 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 3: or our oil export facility on the Gulf Coast of 108 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 3: the United States, which is the largest in the US. 109 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 3: You continue to see very good response there even through recession. 110 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 3: So yeah, I think the demand comes down a bit, 111 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 3: but it continues to grow. 112 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:18,839 Speaker 1: So I saw you announced intentions of buy some utilities, 113 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: I guess in Ohio, North Carolina, in Utah. I mean 114 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: it's a big number, fourteen billion. What's the strategy and 115 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 1: get in the utility business. 116 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 3: So we're you know, it's interesting, maybe a little bit 117 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 3: of contrarian, but I think we're right on this. We've 118 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 3: been in the utility business for a long time. We've 119 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 3: got the largest gas utility in Canada. This will make 120 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:41,600 Speaker 3: us the largest gas utility in North America by volume, 121 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 3: serving some seven million customers in jurisdictions that are really 122 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 3: gas friendly. So they actually have banned the banned legislation 123 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 3: if you will. They will not allow communities to ban 124 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 3: natural guests. They know how important it is for industrial growth. 125 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 3: I think of what's going on in Ohio so much 126 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 3: from a steam automotive refining perspective, gas is critical and 127 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 3: then growth areas like North Carolina and Utah very favorable environment. 128 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 3: So we saw that and it fits right into our 129 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 3: given in paying low risk environment and gas continues to grow. 130 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 3: In fact, you contend des utilities, you will see their 131 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 3: rate base or if you will, their customer setup and 132 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,239 Speaker 3: the assets that they use grow by a compound annual 133 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 3: growth rate of eight percent through the end of the decade. 134 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 3: So that was our strategy. You know, we had a 135 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 3: selling a seller that was large and electric player that 136 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 3: had to move out of that business for other reasons 137 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 3: related to you know, its electricity business. That created an opportunity. 138 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 3: We were able to buy that as historic lows one 139 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 3: point three times that base of the business, and so 140 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 3: we were a big enough player we could buy all three. 141 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 3: And that's really exciting for us as we move and 142 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 3: close those in twenty twenty four and have them fully 143 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 3: in the barn and ready to produce in twenty twenty five. 144 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: So I'm looking on the Bloomberg terminal, Greg and I 145 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: see a dividend yield for you guys of you know, 146 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: seven point six percent. I mean that is just huge. 147 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: What is what's a dividend policy, you you kind of 148 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: communicate to your shareholders. 149 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 3: Sure, so we pay out, and we've been paying a 150 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 3: dividend for forever, and it's an important part of our equation. 151 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 3: I think our compound annual title total shareholder return is 152 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 3: about eleven percent since two thousand and then you go 153 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 3: back to the sixties and you'd find it about a 154 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 3: similar number. And the philosophy there is, as we build 155 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 3: these low risk projects and we bring them in, we 156 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 3: can pay out sixty to seventy percent of that cash 157 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 3: flow to investors through dividends. And so the higher yield 158 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:48,559 Speaker 3: right now is really driven by as we talked about 159 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 3: the ten year, the ten year yield having an impact 160 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 3: on that people will put their money in US treasuries 161 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 3: versus some dividend paying stock. So I would expect that 162 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 3: to come down. I use the stock to go as 163 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 3: you see some softening on the yield side of things. 164 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 3: But that's sixty to seventy percent pay out, very comfortable 165 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:09,319 Speaker 3: for us, very much in line with our cash flow 166 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 3: and allows us to retain enough cash to continue to 167 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 3: invest in the business. 168 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 1: All right, Greg, thanks so much for taking some time, 169 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:17,079 Speaker 1: and you guys are busy today with your earnings Gregor Ebel. 170 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 1: He is the CEO of n Bridge Energy e NB 171 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: is the ticker and look over the last five years, 172 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:27,199 Speaker 1: compound and annual return about eight point five percent better 173 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:31,959 Speaker 1: than its benchmark index. So some solid returns there and 174 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: this stocks up slightly here Today. 175 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 4: You're listening to the team Ken's are Live program Bloomberg 176 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 4: Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, 177 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 4: the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business app, or listen 178 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:46,559 Speaker 4: on demand wherever you get your podcasts. 179 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:50,559 Speaker 1: Jay Hatfield joins us, one of those smart folks we 180 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: like to chat with, CEO, founder and portfolio manager at 181 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: Infrastructure Capital Advisors, and Jay, this has been a good 182 00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: week for risk assets here. I mean, I mean we've 183 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 1: got yields pull and fifty basis points on the tenure. 184 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 1: We got the stocks up five days in a row. 185 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: What'd you make of the job sprint today? What are 186 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: you making of this market right here that we've seen recently? 187 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 5: Thanks Paul Matt for having me on again. We put 188 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 5: out a note on Tuesday because things were looking a 189 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,319 Speaker 5: little bit bleak last week. I'd have to say, because 190 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 5: you'd have great earnings reports and terrible price reaction in 191 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 5: the market as a whole, But we did some work 192 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 5: on near term catalysts on bonds and we saw everything 193 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 5: really lining up for rally. So so far we've been correct. 194 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 5: And what we're really focused on is global growth, mostly 195 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 5: in Europe, and nobody really ever reports on it, but 196 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 5: you can easily get it on the terminal. That's where 197 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 5: we get it. The European data is just awful, yep. 198 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 5: It's their inner recession, as we had predicted. Mild so far, 199 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:54,199 Speaker 5: but it's only going to get worse. The UCB raised 200 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 5: rates twice during the quarter, so nothing better is happening yep. 201 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 5: And if you look even today, the unemployment is rising 202 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 5: in Spain and Germany, they'd have the final manufacturing pmis 203 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 5: forty three, so that's bad. But also we had a 204 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 5: week PMI which lowered our Atlanta growth rate. And then 205 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:17,959 Speaker 5: the final point is that and we focus a lot 206 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 5: on oil, is that it's not well discussed that gasoline 207 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 5: prices came down ten percent in a month, so it's 208 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:29,199 Speaker 5: one hundred and twenty percent annualized. That's a little bit exaggeration, 209 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 5: but still that's going to show up in not just 210 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 5: headline CPI, but more importantly core. And this is what 211 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 5: the fedinis is and this is why they have all 212 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,839 Speaker 5: the nonsense from the seventies because of the real problem 213 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 5: the seventies we had twelve hundred percent increase in oil prices. 214 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 5: It bleeds through to core. So we're going to probably 215 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 5: have cool CPI print in a couple of weeks and 216 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 5: PPI definitely. And so this whole narrative that we're going 217 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 5: to like six percent bond yield should attenuate. I think 218 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 5: said that we think the rate or really rally when 219 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 5: the ECP starts cutting rates in the first half or 220 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 5: even the first quarter of next year, so you. 221 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 2: Think they're gonna cut imminently. They do have a two 222 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 2: handle on inflation, you know, I mean maybe because they're 223 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:16,079 Speaker 2: in a recession, or maybe because inflation was transitory ish. 224 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 2: We were talking to Cam Harvey yesterday, you know that guy. 225 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 2: He's a professor at Duke. Yeah, excellent, and he was 226 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 2: making the point that you have been making for a while. 227 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 2: He said, look, it's ridiculous that this FED thinks inflation 228 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 2: is still you know, three to four when you take 229 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,319 Speaker 2: out the rent equivalent, which is backwards looking in the 230 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 2: wrong way to do it. We're under two and I 231 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 2: immediately looked at your CPI dash R on Infrastructure Capital 232 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 2: Advisers on your website, and you guys have one point 233 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 2: three percent right now. So explain to us how you 234 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 2: calculate that you use core CPI and then you take 235 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:52,840 Speaker 2: out the rent equivalent part and you put it in 236 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 2: case Shiller. 237 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 5: Right, correct, You can even you can basically do it 238 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 5: in your head, so. 239 00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 1: Because not mia, you live it in your head. 240 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 5: But it's it's kind of nutty. But the CPI still 241 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 5: is saying shelters seven point two percent when it's really 242 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 5: it's actually going up a little bit to be fair, 243 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 5: but it's not likely to skyrock. But but so just 244 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 5: assumes zero case Schuller has been close to zero, so 245 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 5: forty percent time seven is like three percent. So basically 246 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 5: CPI is over Headline is overstated by three percent, and 247 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:27,199 Speaker 5: then it's only thirty three percent of core, so it's overstated. 248 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 5: Core is overstated by about two point one percent. 249 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 2: So but the the so inflation isn't as bad as 250 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 2: we think it is, is what you're saying. Still cumulatively, 251 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:40,559 Speaker 2: it sucks right for consumers, especially since. 252 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 1: We near extremes I don't still kill it. 253 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,559 Speaker 2: I don't feel like wages of kept up certainly mind 254 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 2: heaven and then growth though looked incredible backward looking right, 255 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 2: four point nine percent in Q three, How does it 256 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 2: look to you going forward? Because I feel like the 257 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 2: consumer is getting hurt here, you know, and charging everything 258 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 2: and missing payments. 259 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 5: Well, no doubt. We have a saying that the average 260 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 5: consumer is not an economist. So what we mean by 261 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:11,439 Speaker 5: that is they don't really care about CPI, whether it's 262 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 5: R or whatever, because that's for twelve months, but they 263 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 5: do care about twenty four. So prices have still skyrocketed 264 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 5: over twenty four And if your wages didn't go up, 265 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 5: which is true for a lot of lower income consumers 266 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 5: and you don't own a house, you're definitely under pressure. 267 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 2: And by the way, CPIR was much higher than core 268 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 2: CPI for a while, correct, because I look back on 269 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 2: the table and you guys were up at eleven twelve percent. 270 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 5: Yeah, this is why we say that FED is incompetent, 271 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 5: because they just weren't even looking at any data, like 272 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 5: you can go back and say, look at PPI is 273 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 5: actually reported. It was at eleven when they said things 274 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 5: were transitory. So they need to redo their entire framework, 275 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 5: and you should. Everyone should go. Look at the way 276 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 5: the CPI shelter is calculated. It's ridiculous. They only updated 277 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 5: it one sixth every six months, so it's just designed 278 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 5: to be lagged. So the FED should for that, in 279 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 5: fact that San Frisco, San Francisco Fed does correct for. 280 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 2: I just don't understand why they don't. I mean, for 281 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 2: all the flack and Druckmiller gives Janney Yellen. She's a 282 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 2: super genius, right, and she's an economist PhD. 283 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 3: Like she's not. 284 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 2: Now she's like a government you know, political uh, kind 285 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 2: of a hack, but she was like a serious economist. 286 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 5: It's inexplicable. And I'm shocked that not on this program 287 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 5: but other media outlets that everyone comes on and says, 288 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 5: not the FED but other people that inflation's sticky, when 289 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 5: it's just flat out not sticky. It's actually contained has 290 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 5: been since July of last year. 291 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: Have we seen then peak rates? 292 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 5: We definitely there's not going to be another increase. And 293 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 5: now for the first time we've been saying, I think for. 294 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 3: The federal fund rate, right, Yeah. 295 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 5: We've been saying for four or five months to Fed 296 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 5: one increase rates, but they don't know it yet. Now 297 00:15:57,920 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 5: they know it. Now they know it after this employment 298 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 5: very cool, wages rising unemployment. So that's what they look at, 299 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 5: even though that's a flawed leading indicator. So the Fed 300 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 5: is clearly not going to raise. ECB's not going to raise, 301 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 5: they're going to cut. But you know, all this really 302 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 5: is going to start to impact because we're worried about 303 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 5: the liquidity, you know, trillion. That's the other data we 304 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 5: look at that most people don't global monetary base or 305 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 5: supply global liquidity really from central banks down a trillion 306 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 5: over the last two quarters. So it's terrible. That's probably 307 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 5: not going to turn around until next year when the 308 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 5: ECB is forced to cut. Because you know, that's a 309 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 5: simple way to trade the market, right, It's like if 310 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 5: the FED intervenes during the pandemic and says we're going 311 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 5: to increase the monetary base by a gigantic amount, you 312 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 5: get long. If they're sucking money. It's like taking five 313 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 5: hundred dollars off free parking. You know, if you're playing Monopoly, 314 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 5: all of a sudden, you know, if you put it on, 315 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 5: then all of a sudden, everything's overinflated. And everything's go go. 316 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 5: You take it off and it's bad. So we're in 317 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 5: the takeoff phase. But I think we overshot to five percent. 318 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 5: We'll see if we keep rallying from here at four 319 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:04,160 Speaker 5: and a half. But next year we're confident we'll get 320 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,640 Speaker 5: below four. So we'll meet our five thousand target next 321 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 5: year at least. 322 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 2: So you don't think like the bond vigilantes will come 323 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 2: back and say, we're not going to finance this kind 324 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:14,680 Speaker 2: of deficit spending much long. 325 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 5: We think there's was this rate. That's a great question 326 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 5: because we think there's way way too much focused on 327 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:25,640 Speaker 5: the US budget deficit because like I mean, I don't know. 328 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: Matt is concerned about it, so you can try to 329 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:29,920 Speaker 1: relay his concerns. 330 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,160 Speaker 5: Well, I think it's terrible from the economic growth perspective 331 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 5: because there's something called crowding out, So if the government 332 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:36,919 Speaker 5: spends money, it can't be invested in. 333 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 2: Well, if they spend nine hundred billion dollars next year 334 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 2: servicing the debt, we're not going to have enough money 335 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 2: to spend for the next pandemic. 336 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 5: No, it's a horrible it's a horrible, horrible thing, and 337 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 5: it's a waste of capital. And it's terrible for economic growth, 338 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 5: terrible for everyone. But it's not enough to drive global 339 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:56,680 Speaker 5: interest rates up one hundred basis points. That's my only point. 340 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 5: At the margin, it's bad. Yeah, but keep in mind 341 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 5: that our d strangely, if you look at the balance, 342 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,680 Speaker 5: he's actually still monetizing part of the debt because they're 343 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 5: unwinding their short term borrowing. So it can't be true 344 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 5: that that's the key driver of global interest rates. It's bad, 345 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 5: it's bad for it. It's a terrible economic policy. Obviously, 346 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 5: the budget process is horrendous. 347 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 2: And for taxes, dude, because now every time someone wants 348 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 2: to cut taxes, they're going to say, we can't afford to. 349 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 2: We got to do entitlements, we got to pay for 350 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 2: the military, we got to pay nine hundred billion dollars 351 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:30,440 Speaker 2: a service debt, so Miller and the rest of the 352 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,159 Speaker 2: middle class is going to have to pay half half. 353 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 5: No, it's horrendous policy. And in fact, you know, we're 354 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:39,400 Speaker 5: actually pretty bullish about China because they save forty five 355 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 5: percent of their GDP. So savings and investment drives economic growth. 356 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:45,920 Speaker 5: That's all the only thing that does it. And that's 357 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 5: just intuitively Obviously, if the government is reducing savings, we're 358 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 5: going to have lower growth in the long run. So 359 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:53,719 Speaker 5: it is terrible, but just not enough to drive global 360 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 5: rates to six seven eight percent. That's our main point. 361 00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: We learned something again today, Yeah, we do every time 362 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 1: comes in here. Jay Hatfell, thanks so much for joining us. 363 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,880 Speaker 1: Jays the CEO and founder and portfolio manager at Infrastructure 364 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:10,399 Speaker 1: Capital Advisors. He was a banker, he was I don't know, 365 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: hedge year, a hedge fund due. He's a skier up 366 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:15,880 Speaker 1: at my favorite place, Squaw Valley, which I think they've 367 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 1: renamed it something, but still Lake Tahoe. That whole area 368 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 1: there is just awesome. 369 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,160 Speaker 2: So have they that Squaw Valley was not cool squad? 370 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:25,119 Speaker 1: Oh no, it's something different now, So I don't know. 371 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 4: You're listening to the tape cans are live program Bloomberg 372 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 4: Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the 373 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,400 Speaker 4: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App. 374 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 4: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 375 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 4: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 376 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 1: So Sam Bankman free found guilty. Shocker, It took the 377 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 1: jury like fifteen minutes a cup of coffee to convict 378 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 1: this guy did. I'm not even sure they got their pizza. 379 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,120 Speaker 2: Even the trial was felt like the trial was only 380 00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 2: like two weeks, but. 381 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: There's so much evidence. Many people turned against him, and 382 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: he was like an open and shutcase. 383 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:03,120 Speaker 4: No train. 384 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 1: But we have somebody here who's really into this business 385 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 1: and has really read in as the kids say, Zeke Fox. 386 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:12,119 Speaker 1: He's an investigative reporter and it's also our author of 387 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 1: the new book on crypto entitled Number Go Up. It 388 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,359 Speaker 1: was released in September twenty twenty three. He writes for 389 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: Bloomberg BusinessWeek. 390 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 2: And it was used in the trial. 391 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: It was used in a trial. Explain that to me, Zeke, 392 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 1: So how was your book used in this trial? 393 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:25,920 Speaker 6: Here? 394 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 7: Hey, this was unbelievable. So, as you point out, they 395 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 7: had so much evidence. All the top lieutenants were testifying 396 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 7: against Sam, but then Sam decided to take the stand 397 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:40,959 Speaker 7: and tell his version of the story. Real unusual decision 398 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 7: for Krimmel defendant, because then the prosecutor gets to cross 399 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 7: examine you about anything you've ever said. And this prosecutor 400 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,679 Speaker 7: had no mercy. I felt like she was going for 401 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 7: both she was going for bonus points. I think I 402 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:58,959 Speaker 7: felt like she wanted to convict Sam. She's like, forget 403 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,879 Speaker 7: the witnesses, I'm going to convict you again right now. 404 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 7: And so she was like, Sam, have you ever said 405 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 7: anything about the relationship between Alameda Research, your hedge fund 406 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 7: and your exchange FTX? Have you ever said maybe that 407 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:19,119 Speaker 7: Alameda Research didn't play by the rules on FTX? And 408 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 7: Sam was like, I don't recall. And then the prosecutor, 409 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 7: Danielle se Soon, was like, your honor, let me introduce, 410 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:31,679 Speaker 7: and then she pulled out a hard copy of number 411 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 7: go up, walked it over to the witness stand. The 412 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 7: defense was like objection, objection that a little conference it was, 413 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 7: it was admitted, and then for like honestly, for quite 414 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 7: some time, she had Sam read different pages of the 415 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 7: book and was like do you remember saying that now? 416 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:53,400 Speaker 7: And he had to just say, I don't recall, because 417 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 7: what's described in the book is this interview I had 418 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 7: with him in November twenty twenty two, just before he 419 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:02,199 Speaker 7: got arrested, and he basically did not quite have his 420 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:04,439 Speaker 7: story straight, and he said a lot of stuff to 421 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,120 Speaker 7: me that I think he regretted. So he couldn't really 422 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 7: admit to saying those things now, and I think it 423 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 7: looked terrible for him in the trial in front of 424 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 7: the jury because when his lawyer was asking, you know, questions, 425 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 7: he had a lot to say, but when the prosecutor 426 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 7: brought up his other statements, he just had to stick 427 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 7: with I don't recall that's rough. 428 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 2: Part of me feels sorry for the guy, because you know, 429 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 2: I've done things wrong, and I know that feeling of regret. 430 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 6: But. 431 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:38,160 Speaker 2: The size of the fraud and the crimes I would 432 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 2: say alleged, but now I guess I can say committed, 433 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 2: right since he's been proven guilty is just massive. What 434 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 2: do you expect, Zeke at the sentencing. I was having 435 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 2: a little debate over at the news desk a little 436 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 2: bit earlier, and some of the people on the desk 437 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 2: were like, well, Elizabeth Holmes only got eleven years, so 438 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:00,400 Speaker 2: maybe he gets fifteen. And then somebody else said, yeah, 439 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:02,400 Speaker 2: but Bernie Madeoff got like one hundred and fifty years. 440 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 2: So you know, where do you think Sam Bankman Freed 441 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 2: falls in the pantheon of giant conmen? 442 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 7: So I mean, I think these sentences are determined by 443 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 7: how much money you stole and maybe he'll be able 444 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 7: to try his arguments again, which is that so he 445 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,120 Speaker 7: took this customer money and he went and gambled it. 446 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:29,879 Speaker 7: And he wanted to say in his defense that some 447 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 7: of those bets worked out, And the judge at his 448 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 7: at his trial said, that doesn't matter. You stole this money. 449 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 7: If you stole the money, we don't care what you 450 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 7: did with it after the crime is just a stealing 451 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,880 Speaker 7: the money. But maybe when it comes to sentencing, he'll 452 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 7: be able to say, hey, there's not actually eight billion 453 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 7: dollars missing. You know, we've been able to find that, 454 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 7: a bankruptcy court has been able to find, you know, 455 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 7: four billion. Just sentenced me on the four billion, but 456 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:57,440 Speaker 7: even still four billions a lot. So he's looking at 457 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 7: a at a bad sentence. I'd say maybe like twenty years. 458 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 7: That's just my guess. 459 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:05,639 Speaker 1: So wow, Hey see, I guess folks within the crypto space, 460 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,400 Speaker 1: I guess they're wondering at this point to what extent 461 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: does the whole Sam Bankman freed scam, the you know, 462 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:17,199 Speaker 1: the FTX debaccle, how much does that negatively impact just 463 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,639 Speaker 1: the crypto space in general? Do you have any thoughts 464 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 1: on that so. 465 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 7: I I'm hearing a lot of wishful thinking from the 466 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,639 Speaker 7: crypto people that this does not impact them, it doesn't 467 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 7: reflect on their project. And I think it doesn't matter 468 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 7: if your project had nothing to do with Sam Banks 469 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,439 Speaker 7: and Freed. If you start some new coin now and 470 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:39,640 Speaker 7: you go pitch it to regular people, they're gonna say, oh, crypto, 471 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:42,440 Speaker 7: isn't that how the guy with the curly hair stole 472 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,640 Speaker 7: everybody's money, and like they're not gonna want to invest, 473 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 7: you know. So I think it is all the publicity 474 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 7: around this trial. It's horrible for crypto, and the crypto 475 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 7: people would love to move on. But coming up next 476 00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:00,679 Speaker 7: we've got Alex Mashinski of Celsius, who's also so another 477 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 7: crypto guy accused of a massive fraud. And if it 478 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 7: wasn't for Sam bankman Fried, I mean this one was 479 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 7: really big too, he'd be like the big crypto villain. 480 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,639 Speaker 7: So maybe the bad publicity is they're not out of 481 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,920 Speaker 7: the woods yet. They're be getting morel even though the 482 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 7: other day you've got another one. Every day is another one. 483 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:24,880 Speaker 2: Gemini and Genesis, also the the winkle Vy and Barry, 484 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 2: they're in deep trouble and you know, I wonder though, 485 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,160 Speaker 2: and you've been reporting on crypto for for so long, Zeke, 486 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:33,920 Speaker 2: that I feel like you know just as much about 487 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 2: crypto as the biggest experts in it. Is it fair 488 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:42,439 Speaker 2: to lump it all into one ball? Can you put 489 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,879 Speaker 2: it all crypt on the same drawer? Because I've always 490 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 2: felt that bitcoin is one thing and all of the 491 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 2: other coins are another. 492 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:56,439 Speaker 7: Yeah, so I've heard I've heard this argument. I do 493 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 7: think bitcoin's a little different. I mean, we may have 494 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,919 Speaker 7: different opinions on this. I think the reason bitcoin is 495 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 7: different is because this whole cult has developed around it, 496 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 7: and people treat bitcoin almost as like a religion, and 497 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 7: so it's gonna be tougher to we do that with 498 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:12,400 Speaker 7: the dollar change these people's minds. 499 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 2: That's how it goes with these things. You know, if 500 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 2: we all believe, then it's valuable, and if we all 501 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 2: don't believe, then it isn't. 502 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:19,640 Speaker 3: Right. 503 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, I would say the dollar is based 504 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 7: on like more than belief. You know, it's like the 505 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 7: official currency of our country. You know that we can 506 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:34,119 Speaker 7: use it to pay taxes. Everybody's always used it, all right. 507 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 2: So gold, so gold, right, gold is probably a better 508 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,919 Speaker 2: because why is this you know, yellow metal that we 509 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:44,679 Speaker 2: dig out of the earth valuable. I guess we use 510 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 2: it for wedding rings and maybe like some of the 511 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 2: foil that goes around the Moonlanders when NASA was doing that. 512 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 2: But supply and demand, yeah, Bitcoin too, supply and demand. 513 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,439 Speaker 2: I know, yeah, I don't know. I just feel like, 514 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,919 Speaker 2: you know, there's all of the these scams seem to 515 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 2: happen with all of the other coins, and I just 516 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 2: look at bitcoin and it's worth thirty five thousand dollars. 517 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: Hey, Zeke, thanks so much for joining us here. We 518 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: gotta let you it up on the time, but thanks 519 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: so much for joining us. Zeke Fox investigative reporter, and 520 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:17,400 Speaker 1: he say the author of the new book on crypto 521 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,719 Speaker 1: entitled Number Go Up, Check It Out, is released just 522 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 1: in September of this year. Perfect timing for our friend 523 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 1: Zeke on all things crypto. This is Bloomberg. 524 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 4: You're listening to the tape catch are live program Bloomberg 525 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 4: Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the 526 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 4: tune in app, Bloomberg dot com, and. 527 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 3: The Bloomberg Business App. 528 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,879 Speaker 4: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 529 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 4: flagship New York station Just say, Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 530 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: It is Friday is twelve twenty three pm on the 531 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,360 Speaker 1: Wall Street time. That means it's time for what is 532 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:56,240 Speaker 1: Matt Miller driving? Kinda Ella joins this actually does every 533 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,679 Speaker 1: time this week Bloomberg Business Week. Calm this, We're going 534 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 1: to talk about the BMWA, Matt's love for superchargers, who 535 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: doesn't and met, and Hannah's new podcast. 536 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 2: When somebody wrote this, So listen. Every week I do 537 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 2: this segment to talk about the car I'm test driving 538 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 2: this week, and every week I record a podcast with 539 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 2: Hannah Elliott, who writes for Bloomberg Pursuits. So I figured, 540 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,920 Speaker 2: like chocolate and peanut butter, let's bring these two things together. 541 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:22,640 Speaker 1: So podcast. 542 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 2: Our podcast is called Hot Pursuit Night, which is a 543 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 2: play on you know, Hannah's unit, play on words. Hannah's 544 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 2: unit is called Pursuits And the podcast comes out every 545 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,679 Speaker 2: Saturday morning and you can listen to it live on 546 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 2: Bloomberg Radio, taped to live to tape on Bloomberg Radio. 547 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 2: But I thought it would be cool to talk about 548 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 2: these two big trucks together and they're very different. Obviously, 549 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 2: I'm driving a Dodge Durango hell Casts. It's like a 550 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 2: family truckster, right, it's a grocery getter. And you know 551 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 2: they start at forty thousand dollars in the base model, 552 00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 2: so very affordable. But if you put the hell Cat 553 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 2: engine in, oh boy, and that's the only thing that 554 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 2: matters to me. It's a supercharge six point two liters 555 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:09,040 Speaker 2: V eight, then it costs ninety four thousand dollars and 556 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:11,240 Speaker 2: actually can you can get the price up to one 557 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 2: hundred and ten pretty fast. So I absolutely love the car. 558 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 2: I love superchargers, I love V eights. Yeah, but it's 559 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 2: really all about the motor. It's not a terribly luxurious interior. 560 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 2: The seats aren't super comfortable. I don't love the layout 561 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 2: of the infotainment. It doesn't handle very well. I don't 562 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 2: think the build quality is super high. It's just the 563 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 2: supercharged motor that I care about, and I think for 564 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,480 Speaker 2: that it's it's pretty expensive, maybe too expensive. So but 565 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 2: Hannah is driving like an ultra luxury truck, a BMWXM. Hannah, 566 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 2: tell us about that. 567 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 8: So I've got a few points to your supercharger motor. 568 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 8: This the BMWXM does have a V eight two. This 569 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 8: is a twin turbov eight and it's also paired with 570 00:29:58,440 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 8: an electric motor. 571 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 6: This is act a hybrid. It gets six or and 572 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:04,280 Speaker 6: forty four horse power. 573 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 8: So a little bit less than that Hellcat, but sort 574 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 8: of comparable the Hellcat. Yeah, yeah, so close close, But 575 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 8: I have to say the XIM costs a lot more more. 576 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 8: It starts at about one hundred and sixty thousand dollars 577 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 8: starting and. 578 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 6: It goes up from there. 579 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:23,479 Speaker 8: I should mention they're going to come out with an 580 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 8: even more powerful edition next month. So it's really it's fast, 581 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 8: it's powerful, it's very expensive. Personally, I do not think 582 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 8: it drives in the sophisticated way that we have come 583 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 8: to expect from BMW's. It's a little bit inelegant, jerky. 584 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 8: I found it extremely powerful, but not the greatest handling, 585 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 8: not the greatest driving apparatus. And Matt, I think you've 586 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 8: driven this one too, haven't you? 587 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:51,240 Speaker 3: I haven't. 588 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 1: This is where I think is like the soup diversion 589 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 1: of what I've got. 590 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 2: No, No, I've an X. 591 00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 6: You X. 592 00:30:58,040 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 2: True, you have an X and this is the M 593 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:01,719 Speaker 2: version of the X. So actually it's kind of it's 594 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 2: supposed to be the top of the line. But frankly, 595 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:09,360 Speaker 2: your car is probably drives much more, much smoother, much 596 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 2: more sophisticated, much more elegant. And I know what Hannah 597 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 2: talking about because I've driven this XM before. When I 598 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 2: first took it out of the garage and Chelsea, I 599 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 2: noticed that the the switch from electric to gas was 600 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 2: pretty jerky. And the thing is, I think the XM 601 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 2: and the Durango Hellcat, both of them need to be 602 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 2: driven in anger for them to work right. And I 603 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 2: don't know if you've been able to really ring it out, Hannah, 604 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 2: but when I finally took the XM up to Bear 605 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 2: Mountain and ripped it around turns at much higher speeds 606 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 2: than are recommended, then it started to shine. I liked 607 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 2: the anti roll bar. I like the suspension, but otherwise 608 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 2: when you're being just like a rich person driving around, uh, 609 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 2: there's no air suspension in that BMW, it just isn't nice, 610 00:31:58,400 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 2: you know. 611 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 8: I have to say, I lived in New York for 612 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 8: almost twenty years. I'm now in LA I'm trying to 613 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 8: not drive in anger. I'm trying to move past that. 614 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 8: And I love anger. Anger is my favorite emotion. But 615 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 8: I'm trying to really, you know, these are my la 616 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 8: years and I don't want to have to drive my 617 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 8: BMW in anger to have fun with it. I should 618 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 8: also say the XIM is huge. It's the same size 619 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 8: as the X seven, but it only seats six people. 620 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 8: The X seven is a seven passenger. The XM, I'm sorry, 621 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 8: it only seats five people. The X seven seats seven. 622 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 8: Of course, this seats five, so it's big. It's matt 623 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 8: I think you use the word brutalist for how it looks. 624 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 8: I think it just looks a bit heavy handed. 625 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 2: So I like that. So when you tell me this 626 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 2: is a seven passenger car that only seats five, my 627 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 2: eyes light up, you know, because I'm six four ten pounds. 628 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 2: I like that. That means there's more space. It's business class, 629 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 2: that's what this car. 630 00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 6: Yes, yeah, well there's a lot of space. 631 00:32:59,360 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 3: Yeah. 632 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 2: I think that's great. And I love the big grill. 633 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 2: A lot of people would say it's ugly. On the XM, 634 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 2: I would say it's book dish, which is a German word. 635 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 2: It's powerful, you know, its presences can't be ignored. The 636 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 2: Dodge Durango Hellcat, on the other hand, you can easily 637 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:23,959 Speaker 2: overlook that vehicle In fact, it feels much smaller in 638 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,240 Speaker 2: a lot of ways than my Challenger, which is only 639 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:30,920 Speaker 2: a two door. It's definitely thinner. The seats are not 640 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 2: big enough for my but you know, so, yeah, I 641 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 2: think it's fairly small for an SUV, even though it's 642 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 2: a three row vehicle. I don't know who's going to 643 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 2: buy that thing, but the prices having come down dramatically, 644 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 2: I feel like in the long run, the both the 645 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 2: BMW XM and the Durango Hellcat they're gonna depreciate like crazy, 646 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 2: but the XM, certainly because you know, Hannah, the BMW 647 00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 2: I really want to buy and hopefully will at the 648 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 2: begining of next year is a twenty twenty M seven 649 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,799 Speaker 2: sixty and they started at one sixty five MSRP, but 650 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,880 Speaker 2: now I'm finding them three years old with thirty thousand 651 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,400 Speaker 2: miles for sixty five. So they've appreciated like mad and 652 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 2: I feel like the XM would two except for they're 653 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 2: not going to make very many. 654 00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 8: No they're not, and I have to say even even 655 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:26,520 Speaker 8: fewer of this this XM label version coming and I 656 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:28,719 Speaker 8: know I mentioned that before, but they're really kind of 657 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 8: pushing it, I think because they realized if this is 658 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 8: supposed to be the most powerful bmwsuv ever made, and 659 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,440 Speaker 8: it is, they really need to like push a power 660 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 8: even more because if you're getting beat by Dodge, that's 661 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 8: not a good look, isn't No No. 662 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,400 Speaker 2: And by the way, that brings up another point something 663 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,960 Speaker 2: that we spoke about on the podcast, and you said 664 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,399 Speaker 2: something where I was like, oh, now I get it. 665 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:55,480 Speaker 2: I've always wondered why Americans go to the supercharger, and 666 00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,879 Speaker 2: I love a super childreacher. I think it's the best 667 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 2: kind of forced induction. You get the power right at 668 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 2: the very bottom of the rev range. And Europeans and 669 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:08,480 Speaker 2: Japanese have always gone to the turbochargers. I didn't know why, 670 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,600 Speaker 2: but you pointed out a pretty important reason. Hannah. 671 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 8: Yeah, I have a theory, and I think it's actually 672 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:19,640 Speaker 8: back to buy science. That really European roads and for instance, 673 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:23,399 Speaker 8: Japanese roads tend to be smaller, more curby. Obviously these 674 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:27,680 Speaker 8: are smaller spaces, while American roads are big, open highways 675 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 8: great for driving drag races, you know, going fast and 676 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:32,480 Speaker 8: a straight line. 677 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:37,799 Speaker 6: The turbo charger is best used on curby, windy roads. 678 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,400 Speaker 8: I mean, it's amazing when you can feel the thrust 679 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,799 Speaker 8: of the boost kick in. That's when you really feel 680 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,320 Speaker 8: the value of it. You don't necessarily feel the value 681 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 8: of a turbocharger when you're just on an open highway supercharger, 682 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:50,840 Speaker 8: maybe you do. 683 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:51,800 Speaker 6: That's my theory. 684 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,760 Speaker 2: I think she's right, she's on. A turbocharger is more sophisticated, 685 00:35:56,080 --> 00:36:01,280 Speaker 2: you know, a supercharger. No, supercharger is just like a sledgehammer. 686 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 1: That's as American. 687 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:03,319 Speaker 3: That's why I like it. 688 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's right, it's pretty American, all right. The other 689 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,520 Speaker 2: thing that I wanted to just briefly touch on is 690 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,760 Speaker 2: F one. It's coming up. It's I know we still 691 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:15,840 Speaker 2: have another week, but tell us about you're going to 692 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:17,280 Speaker 2: go to Las Vegas. 693 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 6: Yes, I will be there. 694 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,600 Speaker 8: I'm excited and slightly terrified at the same time. It's 695 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 8: going to be a circus, which, of course, this is 696 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,880 Speaker 8: what we want from Los Angeles or from Las Vegas. 697 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,960 Speaker 6: But it's going to be wild. 698 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:36,960 Speaker 8: November eighteenth is the night of the Grand Prix race. Yesterday, 699 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,279 Speaker 8: it's a night race. I had It's a night race. 700 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,920 Speaker 8: It starts at ten pm local time. I think it 701 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 8: might actually be a little bit cold. But yesterday I 702 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:47,400 Speaker 8: was talking to the head of Perelli Motorsport, who just 703 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,880 Speaker 8: of course won the contract to get to provide tires 704 00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:55,319 Speaker 8: until twenty twenty seven. They're actually considering it to be 705 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 8: a bit of a cold track. They're preparing the tires 706 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:00,959 Speaker 8: to be expecting a cold track. But all that to say, 707 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 8: you know, it's fifteen thousand dollars dinners Wild Parties. Of course, 708 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:09,600 Speaker 8: the sphere, this huge event space that you two has 709 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:14,000 Speaker 8: been performing at, is not It's going to be hosting 710 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,840 Speaker 8: some new musical guests during the Grand Prix, which is 711 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:17,480 Speaker 8: a big deal. 712 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 1: That's gonna be good stuff. And and thanks so much 713 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,439 Speaker 1: for joining us, Hanna Elliet Bloomberg Business weeklu is joining 714 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:22,880 Speaker 1: us to talk about cars. 715 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can 716 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:30,320 Speaker 2: subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts or whatever 717 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 2: podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter 718 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:36,239 Speaker 2: at Matt Miller nineteen seventy three. 719 00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 1: Then on Fall Sweeney I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. 720 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,840 Speaker 1: Before the podcast, you can always catch us worldwide at 721 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:43,640 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio