Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Civic Cipher Army. Host Rams
Speaker 1: is Jah.
Speaker 2: Okay, so some.
Speaker 3: People call me q Ward, and I think that's the
Speaker 3: easiest way to address me, or to say hello, or
Speaker 3: to introduce me in any public form. It's also the
Speaker 3: name that I use when I am playing music for
Speaker 3: rooms full of people that like to dance.
Speaker 2: Sir speak on it.
Speaker 3: My mother named me Quinton, and I just like to
Speaker 3: tell people that Q is just a lot easier to
Speaker 3: pronounce than Quinton. And I know that because for almost
Speaker 3: forty years, people have been calling me Quentin, which is
Speaker 3: not my name, but no one feels like saying Quentin.
Speaker 2: So here we go, q Ward. Yes, indeed, Hey, you
Speaker 2: know what. I like that que Yeah. I like that
Speaker 2: we take the moment.
Speaker 1: You know, you got to teach people how to love you,
Speaker 1: and you know I'm pretty good at that, but you're
Speaker 1: excellent it and you do it on the radio.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 3: So here's the thing though, my part, my brother and
Speaker 3: my co host. His actual name is Ramses, So Q
Speaker 3: is like a nickname or like a shortening.
Speaker 2: So I like to say my actual name too. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. I want to let people
Speaker 2: into my life. A little bit.
Speaker 4: Well, so how is Quinton spilled?
Speaker 3: I N t O N so quin Ton like a
Speaker 3: ton of bricks. But when Quinn is in front of
Speaker 3: it and no one likes to say ton, they say Quintin,
Speaker 3: Quintin Quinn c even I went over that last week,
Speaker 3: and I want to go into it. I got some
Speaker 3: PTSD from my old boss who used to I don't
Speaker 3: want to talk about it, but Q woard it's easy,
Speaker 3: and it's when I go by professionally. But you know,
Speaker 3: sometimes people wonder where the Q came from or what
Speaker 3: it stands for.
Speaker 1: Hey, listen, put some respect on my man's name, and
Speaker 1: and you know what, put some respect on black names
Speaker 1: while you're at it one time. And you know that's
Speaker 1: what we're here to talk about on Civic Cipher today's episode,
Speaker 1: especially so you might have heard a familiar voice, especially
Speaker 1: if you grew up anywhere in the Southwest. A dear
Speaker 1: friend of mine is joining us today to share a
Speaker 1: story and for us to empower each other and empower
Speaker 1: you the listener when it comes to dealing with life
Speaker 1: in a melanated body. You know, we all have our traumas,
Speaker 1: we all have our stories, and at this point in
Speaker 1: our lives. On the other side of a very divisive administration,
Speaker 1: on this other side of a of a very radical,
Speaker 1: fiery movement, on the other side of a pandemic, something
Speaker 1: that none of us have ever lived through. A lot
Speaker 1: of folks, who will call them non allies, are very
Speaker 1: They feel very displaced. They feel like they their sense
Speaker 1: of normalcy, their position of superiority, has been compromised. They
Speaker 1: have to wear masks, they have to, you know, accept
Speaker 1: a different president when they thought they finally got the
Speaker 1: White House, and you know, all these sorts of things,
Speaker 1: and these people are acting out in a number of ways.
Speaker 2: And we're not just talking about the police.
Speaker 1: We're talking about normal, everyday people that you see at
Speaker 1: the gas station, that you walk down the street and encounter.
Speaker 1: They feel very much displaced, and we're having to deal
Speaker 1: with their traumas. And so the voice that you heard
Speaker 1: again is a dear friend of mine who's come on
Speaker 1: Civic Cipher, a show that exists for these types of stories,
Speaker 1: to tell her story. Her name is Karina. She's a
Speaker 1: long time radio personality, a legend and incredibly special and
Speaker 1: import in person in my life, a mentor, among other things,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure that I'm not. That there's a long
Speaker 1: list of people that would say the same about you.
Speaker 1: Not only is it appropriate for you to be on
Speaker 1: the show, but it's an honor. And you brought along
Speaker 1: your daughter Aria.
Speaker 5: Happy to be here, and you know, I'm given the circumstances,
Speaker 5: but I'm so happy to be here.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, So.
Speaker 1: You know, if this is your first time tuning in
Speaker 1: the civic cipher, this show was born out of the
Speaker 1: trauma of.
Speaker 2: Our lives, me and you Q.
Speaker 1: You know, once upon a time we had bits and
Speaker 1: pieces of our shows that we had done that kind
Speaker 1: of pointed in this direction. But you know, we were
Speaker 1: always keen on having long form conversations and discussions about
Speaker 1: and having an intellectual approach and compassionate approach to remitting
Speaker 1: issues that we had to deal with. Last year, obviously
Speaker 1: a lot of that stuff came to a head, and
Speaker 1: working in media, we needed to create a space to
Speaker 1: be able to share stories, to be able to empower
Speaker 1: our listeners, to be able to fight false narratives that
Speaker 1: existed on other media platforms, the news, especially saying that
Speaker 1: we were doing things that we weren't doing, setting stuff
Speaker 1: on fire that we weren't doing, you know, these sorts
Speaker 1: of things rioting when we were being peaceful with our
Speaker 1: children out there marching.
Speaker 2: And then creating this space. We are also able.
Speaker 1: To write our own stories, establish our own narratives, and
Speaker 1: that's exactly what we're doing today. It feels almost full
Speaker 1: circle now to have you up to tell me about
Speaker 1: an incident that I know a little bit about and
Speaker 1: that Q knows nothing about and.
Speaker 4: Q ain't gonna believe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And so let's get right into it.
Speaker 1: Talk to me, tell me about a day in your life.
Speaker 6: Wow, let's start with And here's you know. My level
Speaker 6: of communication is super open and pretty hype, really absolutely
Speaker 6: and very interactive, so please feel free to interrupt, and
Speaker 6: I'm asking you to do the same. Is we have
Speaker 6: to tell this story because it's our story, and it's
Speaker 6: probably best if we don't go back and forth and
Speaker 6: back and forth and I say, well this happened, and
Speaker 6: we add this sin I just say, we're gonna flow
Speaker 6: through this and kind of tell you a pretty unbelievable
Speaker 6: tale if you will, and we'll start.
Speaker 2: Go ahead.
Speaker 1: Before you get into it, I want to really make
Speaker 1: sure that I established to our listenership.
Speaker 2: That you are.
Speaker 1: A more celebrated individual, at least in the city where
Speaker 1: you live than most people are. I know you to
Speaker 1: be celebrated in other cities as well, having lived there
Speaker 1: and established your brand there and so forth. You know,
Speaker 1: in entertainment and radio, you've been on a number of stages.
Speaker 1: You've worked with many hip hop artists, you've worked with.
Speaker 1: You know, you've worked in this industry for decades, well established,
Speaker 1: and you know who you are. You've encountered people. This
Speaker 1: is not an unusual sort of a platform for you
Speaker 1: to be on. You know how to maintain your composure.
Speaker 2: You are a very.
Speaker 1: You're very comfortable in the center of yourself and that
Speaker 1: I think that needs to be well established before we
Speaker 1: get into this story, because again, the story is a
Speaker 1: little bit wild, and it doesn't It doesn't cast you
Speaker 1: or you are in a bad light. Rather, it illuminates
Speaker 1: the state of the we'll call it the opposition to
Speaker 1: our progress in recent times, our meaning melanated people's historically disenfranchised.
Speaker 6: And no matter how dark or lightly mellenated you are,
Speaker 6: that's what this is about. It is about more than
Speaker 6: just being melanated. This is more than just being a
Speaker 6: person of color. This is being a person of color
Speaker 6: that sometimes is really not even understood, sometimes right, sometimes
Speaker 6: thoroughly denied, and through through the times we've gone through. Honestly,
Speaker 6: I think it's also really, really really important to stress
Speaker 6: at the beginning of this that through everything, and I
Speaker 6: can't thank you enough for everything you just said, I
Speaker 6: really you know, our relationship goes way back, and he's like,
Speaker 6: I've raised people in this business and in this community,
Speaker 6: and I feel like mother to all.
Speaker 4: That's my role.
Speaker 6: That's been my role for a lot of years. That's
Speaker 6: also really important to state. It's important to state that
Speaker 6: I have stood up for us, mellenated people for my
Speaker 6: entire radio career, my entire life, even even growing up
Speaker 6: in the seventies in the area of Chicago with a
Speaker 6: black mother and a white father, in an area where
Speaker 6: that was not cool, that was not celebrated, that was
Speaker 6: not a thing, that was almost unheard of. So this
Speaker 6: is just a quick look at who I am, where
Speaker 6: I'm from, what I'm about.
Speaker 4: I also have four children who have a.
Speaker 6: Black father, so they have half black, half white mother,
Speaker 6: which is way deeper than that, but still black identify
Speaker 6: as a black person. But this is this also I
Speaker 6: really want to state it's really important that we talk
Speaker 6: about at some point in this conversation how melanated you
Speaker 6: are and whether that matters, because a lot of things
Speaker 6: were said over the launching and the real like blowing
Speaker 6: up of Black Lives Matter. There was a lot of
Speaker 6: really terrible things said to us, and I mean socially online,
Speaker 6: things that you take as a direct hit because it's
Speaker 6: like you're saying, I'm not black enough. Do you have
Speaker 6: anything to say in all of this? And I know
Speaker 6: y'all saw that stuff, So we're gonna preface it with
Speaker 6: all that. And I really do want to tell you
Speaker 6: this story as a mother on Mother's Day.
Speaker 5: So let me set the narrative on that, because it
Speaker 5: is Mother's Day and I have a really good close
Speaker 5: relationship with my mom, and every day we start our
Speaker 5: day happy. We literally are so joyful and happy with
Speaker 5: each other. So we go to the store and we're
Speaker 5: just at Sprouts about to She's about to cook for
Speaker 5: everyone all over, yes, grandbabies, my siblings.
Speaker 4: Mother's Day.
Speaker 5: And we're going through the store dressed up, dressed up
Speaker 5: and dresses heal and store every day, so I know
Speaker 5: everybody in there. We're being just what we are, ourselves,
Speaker 5: singing Hi to everybody, singing the early two thousand songs
Speaker 5: playing in there. And then we're about to check out
Speaker 5: and I see some flowers. I'm like, I'm gonna get
Speaker 5: you some flowers, and she starts putting our groceries up
Speaker 5: on them, just on the conveyor belt. I go over,
Speaker 5: I make my decision. I come back with a plant,
Speaker 5: and I'm talking to her about it.
Speaker 6: Because in the midst of that, in the midst of that,
Speaker 6: a woman steps up behind us in line old lady, old,
Speaker 6: and she's looking at us, and I feel it, but
Speaker 6: I always feel I don't care. You can look at me.
Speaker 6: That's why we're shining. I understand that. That's not I
Speaker 6: can't help that. I'm not gonna dim me for you.
Speaker 2: You can look.
Speaker 6: I don't mind. So that goes right right past me.
Speaker 6: But I hear her say to this man. I feel
Speaker 6: an emptiness on my right. And the next this cash
Speaker 6: register was open. She's standing directly behind us, and this
Speaker 6: man from the other side says, ma'am.
Speaker 4: You can go right over there. She goes, oh, no,
Speaker 4: I'm not in any hurry. You go ahead.
Speaker 6: He says, no, I'm going over here to self check myself,
Speaker 6: and he takes his little basket and he goes over there.
Speaker 4: She proceeds to stand behind us.
Speaker 6: Really important, because this is absolutely unnecessary.
Speaker 4: We're minding our business.
Speaker 6: She's getting her mother some flowers on flowers on Mother's Day,
Speaker 6: and this woman chooses to stand directly behind us so
Speaker 6: she can continue to feel whatever emotion she's feeling while
Speaker 6: she's observing my daughter saying she wants to.
Speaker 4: Get me some flowers on Mother's Day.
Speaker 6: So she comes back with the plant after that, not
Speaker 6: knowing that happened either, not even I'm still putting the
Speaker 6: stuff on the belt.
Speaker 5: Okay, I come over and I'm like, should I get this?
Speaker 5: She's like, uh, our plants at home have diseases. Just
Speaker 5: get some flowers. And after she says that, the lady goes,
Speaker 5: excuse me.
Speaker 6: She's and I was like, yes, we're still smiling. So
Speaker 6: she runs back to get the flowers if they're directly
Speaker 6: behind us. The flowers are directly behind the register we're on.
Speaker 5: And I'm going to grab them. She's like, she's hur
Speaker 5: she's moving up.
Speaker 4: She's almost done with your stuff. I go, but not quite.
Speaker 6: So it's okay, and I smiled at her. I said,
Speaker 6: but she's not quite done. I wasn't even done empty
Speaker 6: in my cart. I had all this stuff I'm still
Speaker 6: putting up on the thing, and she's getting hip, dude,
Speaker 6: she's she's pointing at the belt and I go what
Speaker 6: I just really didn't even know what she.
Speaker 4: Was talking about. She's like, she's almost done with your stuff.
Speaker 4: I said, not quite? Can I tell her go ahead?
Speaker 6: I continue to get the stuff out of the cart
Speaker 6: and put it on the belt. She walks past the lady.
Speaker 5: As I do, she she swears I don't even want
Speaker 5: me to swear on here, but she's like, move your act.
Speaker 5: And that's what makes me perk my ears up because
Speaker 5: I wasn't paying attention to her, and I.
Speaker 6: Heard mumbles in her mask. Yes, not knowing what she
Speaker 6: said and not caring.
Speaker 4: I don't care.
Speaker 6: She was right next to her, though, so she heard
Speaker 6: the words coming out of her mouth.
Speaker 4: So I turn.
Speaker 5: I'm like, literally, I perked my hair. I'm like whatever.
Speaker 5: I keep walking by and I hear her under her breath.
Speaker 5: It's terrible to say. She goes in her mask loud
Speaker 5: enough for me to hear it, and she like literally
Speaker 5: she made a sound all deep and rasty, and I
Speaker 5: was like, I go over to there. I literally stop,
Speaker 5: and I was stuck in my tracks, like is it wait?
Speaker 5: Did I just hear that correctly? And then I just
Speaker 5: start immediately just shaking. I'm like, no, this lady can't
Speaker 5: be serious she's talking. I just say, hey, it's so crazy,
Speaker 5: like she's not making it seem like there's no mental illness,
Speaker 5: just what so I deal with that and I and
Speaker 5: I don't mean to say crazy, like.
Speaker 4: But mental you know, it wasn't.
Speaker 6: It wasn't that type of like she wasn't having some
Speaker 6: kind of like mental outbreak or outburst or there was
Speaker 6: no like, there was no sickness. She was peratically fine
Speaker 6: when she told the man, hey, I'm in no big hurry,
Speaker 6: not worry, no worries going. She was totally fine, and
Speaker 6: her face was totally fine. While talking to the white
Speaker 6: man next to us, she was one percent okay with that.
Speaker 4: It was the tone, the grunting, the all of this.
Speaker 6: Her face was contorted and I saw all of this,
Speaker 6: and I saw her take her mask down and say
Speaker 6: something to the lady.
Speaker 5: Like yeah, I came back and I finally just grab something.
Speaker 5: I come back and I said to her, I'm like,
Speaker 5: you're shameful. What shame on you? I said, I heard
Speaker 5: what you said, and you're wrong for that.
Speaker 6: I was like, and she's like, I didn't hear what
Speaker 6: she I dare you, honey, I dare you.
Speaker 4: You don't want a piece of me, I went.
Speaker 5: And I used to hear. She's crying now and not
Speaker 5: wanting her. Everyone is looking.
Speaker 6: And the cash register, the cashier thinks her and I
Speaker 6: re beefing because she has no idea. This lady is
Speaker 6: talking to us we know, and she's looking me in
Speaker 6: my face, and she refuses to go to the next thing,
Speaker 6: until finally I say to.
Speaker 4: Her, Hey, it's Mother's Day. Can we just be peaceable?
Speaker 6: And I look at her and I go, hey, hey,
Speaker 6: please don't let her this lady see your emotion.
Speaker 4: She goes, Mom, you don't know what she just said.
Speaker 4: And I'm not even gonna tell you till we go outside.
Speaker 6: And like I said, I don't even care what she said.
Speaker 6: It doesn't matter what she said. Their words, She goes,
Speaker 6: they're not just words. I just we're gonna go outside.
Speaker 6: I'm not gonna tell you in here because we're in
Speaker 6: this store every day. We have such an awesome reputation.
Speaker 6: We're in there every day. They know us really well.
Speaker 5: We we're so pushing up. She's finishing up as well,
Speaker 5: because she's making threats. Next side, now she's making threads.
Speaker 6: She goes here and I'll see you outside, and I'm
Speaker 6: gonna see you outside.
Speaker 4: B I t h outside over and over and over.
Speaker 6: I finally go, hey, listen, we are all going outside
Speaker 6: in just a second. And I guess this conversation is
Speaker 6: gonna need to continue out there because I'm not going
Speaker 6: to keep hearing this from you.
Speaker 5: She's still threatening, but she's said to.
Speaker 6: Her and she's threatening me. And the cashier goes, I
Speaker 6: thought you were talking to your daughter. I go, my
Speaker 6: daughter is lovely. I wouldn't be talking to my daughter
Speaker 6: like that. She goes, I didn't think so I was
Speaker 6: so confused. I go, I don't know what this lady's
Speaker 6: problem is, but I'm just like, I don't even want
Speaker 6: to walk outside. I just can't even believe what's going on.
Speaker 6: I cannot ramses. I can't make this, still, weeks later
Speaker 6: make sense in my head. Why this person even needed
Speaker 6: to address me? Why are you talking to me? Why
Speaker 6: are you looking at me with such disdain? I've literally
Speaker 6: not even spoken to you, looked at you when I
Speaker 6: said let's be peaceable, all the threats started and all
Speaker 6: the literally insanity coming out of herself.
Speaker 2: So here's here's one of the things that I think.
Speaker 1: Uh and and of course we're going to listen to
Speaker 1: the rest of the story because it gets deeper, way deeper.
Speaker 1: That's what we're gonna take a We're gonna take a moment.
Speaker 1: It's okay. You know, there's this this term Karen. These
Speaker 1: are karens, and what a Karen is. A Karen is
Speaker 1: perhaps at her most careenness around black people. But you
Speaker 1: don't need a black person in order for a Karen
Speaker 1: to just be a Karen. A Karen, in my mind,
Speaker 1: is a usually a white woman who is appropriately entitled
Speaker 1: based on the way that this country tends to treat
Speaker 1: white women. They just get what they want. If they
Speaker 1: cry loud enough, the manager will help them and give
Speaker 1: them what they want. Just you know, shut up your holler.
Speaker 1: But a Karen, and on the other side of all
Speaker 1: of this Black Lives Matter protesting, you know, Karen is
Speaker 1: the sort of person that comes up with in all
Speaker 1: lives matter. You know, Karen is the sort of person
Speaker 1: that comes up with it. Any other thing matters, but
Speaker 1: don't say black lives matter. Every everything else matters. Karen
Speaker 1: is the sort of person who will make will try
Speaker 1: to make your day worse.
Speaker 2: Because on the inside she is miserable.
Speaker 6: And it wasn't working. And I felt that I go,
Speaker 6: she's miserable, don't worry about her just and I kept saying,
Speaker 6: please just check your she goes. She had her back
Speaker 6: to the lady because she's like, I don't want her
Speaker 6: to see me crying.
Speaker 4: I hate that I'm feelings about my mom.
Speaker 5: Like I work at a luxury car dealership. I have
Speaker 5: these experiences more than they should. But she said about
Speaker 5: my mom. So I was like, just trying to time
Speaker 5: to go. And then that's what was making me cry,
Speaker 5: because I know I have to keep us for me.
Speaker 6: It was the the fact that my daughter is obviously
Speaker 6: so hurt that she's visibly shaken in public, and not
Speaker 6: in a way where she could even hold back the emotion.
Speaker 4: It was just that raw. It's just that real.
Speaker 1: I think there's something to be said too about knowing
Speaker 1: that you're at a disadvantage when dealing with a Karen,
Speaker 1: because as soon as you respond in kind, you're the aggressor,
Speaker 1: you're the threat, you're the criminal, you're the angry black woman,
Speaker 1: you're any number of things. And she's just a woman
Speaker 1: who was just trying to move the line along and
Speaker 1: they minimize.
Speaker 4: So you shouldn't be worrying about it.
Speaker 2: You know that doesn't matter.
Speaker 4: Didn't matter.
Speaker 1: That's why you tried to keep your composure. So you
Speaker 1: guys go outside.
Speaker 6: We both I have to give her credit because she
Speaker 6: really did. She maintained her composure. We went outside, and
Speaker 6: I knew. Now she's checked out on the belt next
Speaker 6: to us. I know she's coming because she wants this
Speaker 6: with me. She's threatening me. She's threatening her, threatening to
Speaker 6: beat her up, which is cracking me up inside. To
Speaker 6: be honest with you, I couldn't even get upset yet yet,
Speaker 6: I couldn't even.
Speaker 5: Get up at her.
Speaker 6: She's like, I'm not exaggerating, I mean like eighty.
Speaker 4: Like he's an eighty year old woman. Now where I'm from.
Speaker 6: You respect your elders of any type. And for me,
Speaker 6: when you get older, you might not really be dealing
Speaker 6: with the nicest situation or your life. Is I don't
Speaker 6: know what, and it's not up to me to worry
Speaker 6: about that. It's up to me to continue to be kind,
Speaker 6: continue to smile at you, and to be a good
Speaker 6: example to my child, which is exactly what I was doing.
Speaker 6: But the threats were just killing me. And I looked
Speaker 6: at the cashier. I'm like, Yo, this is crazy right here.
Speaker 6: She needs to stop.
Speaker 4: But nobody was really doing anything.
Speaker 6: I notice people's attention and I noticed they were looking
Speaker 6: at her, but I didn't nobody's doing anything. It didn't,
Speaker 6: it didn't appear. So we start walking out and I
Speaker 6: say to her, you just keep moving. I don't care
Speaker 6: what happens right now. You just keep going. You just
Speaker 6: get the car, get the stuff to the car, get
Speaker 6: the flowers to the car, get the groceries to the car.
Speaker 4: We were unlimited time. I'm trying to.
Speaker 5: I'm like, you don't know what she said. I was like,
Speaker 5: she said, I repeat it, and I'm I didn't want
Speaker 5: to repeat it. It's so nasty and I've never heard
Speaker 5: anyone put those two words together, like, it's just really ridiculous, almost,
Speaker 5: So I just I repeat it to her and she's.
Speaker 6: Like, what.
Speaker 1: To be clear, the two words were the IN word
Speaker 1: and the B word together about your mother.
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, like very clearly, very intentional. She wanted me
Speaker 5: to hear it. And I we're outside, so I keep
Speaker 5: walking to the car, and I turn and our cars
Speaker 5: out of that store chest out ready for me. Our
Speaker 5: cars are actually really close to each other, from each
Speaker 5: other each other, and they're right at the entrance. So
Speaker 5: I start putting the stuff in.
Speaker 4: She's parked in the handicap spot. Let me give you this.
Speaker 4: She's in the handicap spot. We walk out, she gets.
Speaker 6: The cart, she keeps going, like I tell her, thank God,
Speaker 6: just keep going, just keep moving. So look quickly, she's there, quickly,
Speaker 6: and she's coming right at me. Now look first I
Speaker 6: hadn't even addressed her yet. She's coming at me.
Speaker 4: Use all of this inside, and now we're out here
Speaker 4: and you are still talking. I said, listen, I'm not
Speaker 4: even trying to hear anything you have to say. When
Speaker 4: you're gonna call me U mum mmm in front of
Speaker 4: my daughter and in public, that's just absolutely not cool.
Speaker 6: She's I didn't call you the NB, but she said
Speaker 6: it shesyny.
Speaker 4: She didn't say I would say that, like it's natural.
Speaker 4: She said, I didn't call you that.
Speaker 6: I just said you're an F and b I go,
Speaker 6: why are you calling me anything?
Speaker 4: As I'm saying that, she gets this close to my face, takes.
Speaker 5: Both old hands and I'm men like just putting maybe
Speaker 5: two things in the trunk, and I just see her
Speaker 5: take both her hands and go boom. And my mom's
Speaker 5: in tall legends. She pushed in a dress both on
Speaker 5: both shoulders and shoves her over. Every lady is taller,
Speaker 5: so my mom's in her heels and she's what five six,
Speaker 5: So she's in the heels and the lady is still
Speaker 5: taller than.
Speaker 6: Her, still bigger than me. And this is it gets better.
Speaker 6: So wait because she pushes me back. Hang on, hang on,
Speaker 6: hang on, Yes, it's all blown assault.
Speaker 4: She put her hands.
Speaker 5: On she I'm glad that she said, yeah, I come running,
Speaker 5: and she starts punching her four or five times.
Speaker 2: Hang on one second, Hang on one second.
Speaker 4: Beat up by old lady.
Speaker 2: Hang on one second.
Speaker 4: Hand I want to beat by eighty year old lady.
Speaker 1: Because I want to hear about place. But we gotta
Speaker 1: uh make sure that folks know what they're listening to.
Speaker 1: So if you just tune in the civic.
Speaker 2: Site for I'm your host Ramsy's joh they call me
Speaker 2: cute Warden. That is just a variation of my actual name.
Speaker 1: Today's guest, we have Karina and Aria Karina the radio legend,
Speaker 1: the broadcasting legend, and we're in the middle of a
Speaker 1: story about and a physical assault on your body by
Speaker 1: from a wild Karen out in the world.
Speaker 2: So where we.
Speaker 1: Left off, you were saying that you had just gotten
Speaker 1: out of a grocery store after having a confrontation with this.
Speaker 4: Woman verbally inside.
Speaker 1: Verbally, and it was over her nothing as it typically is.
Speaker 1: You get outside and then she pushes you, and I
Speaker 1: think that's where we left off.
Speaker 4: This is a racial slur inside.
Speaker 2: In the store. Okay, So continue please.
Speaker 6: So I will tell you everything happened so fast from
Speaker 6: that point that I look up because I literally, when
Speaker 6: I say I went back, I twisted my ankle. I'm
Speaker 6: in big old wedges and those are not very sturdy
Speaker 6: if you're not standing on solid ground. And I'm in
Speaker 6: a dress, which restricts how.
Speaker 2: Because it's Mother's Day, I'm dressed.
Speaker 4: I'm dressed up.
Speaker 6: So she pushes me back, and I mean I looked
Speaker 6: up because I am I cannot tell.
Speaker 4: You how shocked.
Speaker 6: I'm literally like, I'm still actually still kind of laughing
Speaker 6: because I really don't I can't even fathom that this
Speaker 6: is really truly happening right now.
Speaker 2: I can see the tears in your eyes.
Speaker 6: So I just I come back toward her, and she
Speaker 6: just b she hits me with a barrage of puncheons.
Speaker 6: I never there's ways, hushed nothing. I eventually grabbed her
Speaker 6: right arm and just slung it, like, get off of me.
Speaker 6: And when I did, that was it. She stopped immediately,
Speaker 6: She's oh, she looks down at her arm. My nails
Speaker 6: made contact with her skin. And you know how old people,
Speaker 6: older people have have you ever seen, I've never really
Speaker 6: seen this melanated people, no bigger like pools of blood
Speaker 6: under her skin. She had like all them little brown
Speaker 6: spots her skin and they have like blood underneath them.
Speaker 6: And my fingernail made contact with it enough to just
Speaker 6: like slice one open and that made her stop it.
Speaker 6: But she was throwing a barrage of wild spears. He
Speaker 6: just got there and then she goes, oh, I didn't
Speaker 6: even it didn't beat her arm or anything. I just
Speaker 6: saw it fling it and I grab her shoulders.
Speaker 5: I'm like, you know, nobody hits my mom.
Speaker 6: And she runs up and I look and there's this
Speaker 6: white girl standing there, blonde girl, long, straight hair, young,
Speaker 6: mid twenties, and.
Speaker 4: She's all, no, you stop it? And what I thought
Speaker 4: you talking to me?
Speaker 5: Yep?
Speaker 4: We're like, you're talking anymore?
Speaker 5: Stop. Two more people come running.
Speaker 6: Up, but they are talking to her good yep. These
Speaker 6: are people who've been waiting for their moment. They know
Speaker 6: this stuff exists, this is on our side, but they
Speaker 6: don't think in their lifetime it's ever really gonna happen.
Speaker 4: They just know they're gonna fight for us. They're gonna
Speaker 4: fight for us.
Speaker 6: I guarantee you that's the kind of girl who would
Speaker 6: march for us. She's standing here in this dish's really
Speaker 6: going down right here.
Speaker 4: Right now, and sweets at it. She screams at this lady.
Speaker 4: This lady jumps in her car and just sits there.
Speaker 6: And I hear numerous people screaming call the police and
Speaker 6: taking me and she's staying there taking pictures of her car.
Speaker 5: She sits and I take a picture and I'm telling
Speaker 5: three people come out and they're like, I was seeing
Speaker 5: you in there. We were watching you and your mom.
Speaker 5: But then we thought you were fighting, and the in
Speaker 5: line we didn't know why you were crying and I
Speaker 5: was They're like, and one girl goes, I saw you shaking.
Speaker 5: So I quickly tell her the entire story. And the
Speaker 5: lady is in the car long enough at least like
Speaker 5: a minute or two for me to tell the story,
Speaker 5: them to talk to me and try to console me.
Speaker 6: And then we just hear scrap and she tries to
Speaker 6: run her over with her crowded with me.
Speaker 5: And we're like, are you crazy? And we're like, are
Speaker 5: you serious?
Speaker 4: And she do you see what you're getting pictures? Take
Speaker 4: a picture of what she take to me?
Speaker 5: And I didn't even Now I have attacked her.
Speaker 4: I have done something to her.
Speaker 1: Narrative has changed all of a sudden. Yep, now now
Speaker 1: she's the victim. Try to you're you're the aggressor.
Speaker 6: Yeah, screaming freaking out in the parking.
Speaker 2: Let me ask Let me ask you something.
Speaker 1: So the people that work at the grocery store, they
Speaker 1: know you well, where they're where, they're videos or you
Speaker 1: know you got you got the support them.
Speaker 4: So here's what happened.
Speaker 6: I go home. I'm mortified. I can't. I can't tell
Speaker 6: you how long I cried. I just wanted to keep
Speaker 6: getting it together because I'm about to cook for my
Speaker 6: grand babies. I don't want to tell the story in
Speaker 6: front of them. I don't want them to hear any
Speaker 6: of this. I want to have a nice day. That
Speaker 6: is what I get only a very short period of
Speaker 6: time with the babies. So I just wanted to make
Speaker 6: some French toasts, feed my family, get our pictures, and
Speaker 6: go on about my day. So I went home. But
Speaker 6: it was too much. I was literally choked up witches.
Speaker 6: I was sick over it. So I called sprouts back,
Speaker 6: the grocery store back, and I say, I need to
Speaker 6: talk to the manager who looks like this.
Speaker 4: And he gets on the.
Speaker 6: Phone and I go, I know you know me. I
Speaker 6: don't know your name. I've seen you for years. You
Speaker 6: know my daughter, she has the red afro. I watched
Speaker 6: you wave at her this morning. Do you do you
Speaker 6: know who I am?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 6: I said, did you have any idea what happened out
Speaker 6: in your parking lot today or in the store today? No?
Speaker 4: Please tell me. I tell him.
Speaker 6: He's he's sick, he's sound moved to tears. I'm crying
Speaker 6: because it's still so fresh, and he is just mortified,
Speaker 6: apologizing profusely and cannot believe it, and wants me to
Speaker 6: call the police, and I say, I'm gonna, but I
Speaker 6: was just I was scared to call the police. I
Speaker 6: was scared to call the police because I figured at
Speaker 6: some point, in some way, they're going to figure out
Speaker 6: how to make this a I did, and I will
Speaker 6: say what I did was nothing compared to what I
Speaker 6: could have done. Partially wanted to do. But what went
Speaker 6: through my mind, which is not a thirty five year
Speaker 6: old mine or twenty five year old mine, it's a
Speaker 6: much older mind than that was if I put this
Speaker 6: lady on her back, she could die. If I hit
Speaker 6: this lady in her face, she could die. Now it's
Speaker 6: just a black person killed this old lady outside the
Speaker 6: grocery store, and we'll never get to the bottom of
Speaker 6: it because this dead. That is what honestly went through
Speaker 6: my head. And as she came running to assist, I
Speaker 6: just wanted to make sure nobody us did anything to.
Speaker 4: Someone that would end our lives for something we didn't even.
Speaker 6: Have anything to do with starting or even instigating or
Speaker 6: continuing or any of it.
Speaker 5: She actually hurt her. She twisted her ankle and she
Speaker 5: wailed on her. And if I didn't come up there,
Speaker 5: I mean, I know, oh my mom would have done anything,
Speaker 5: but she wouldn't have stopped hitting her. She wouldn't have
Speaker 5: stopped hitting her. She and my mom wouldn't have done anything.
Speaker 5: She would have just sat there and taken it.
Speaker 6: There's no outdoor cameras at the store, so he says,
Speaker 6: I'll pull all the camera stuff from inside. I'm gonna
Speaker 6: hang on to it. Please please report this, Please report this.
Speaker 1: Send us the video. We'll put it up on the
Speaker 1: social media. Follow a CIVI excipher.
Speaker 6: So then I call the police and I say, I
Speaker 6: have a story to tell you, but I am just
Speaker 6: not able to do that.
Speaker 5: Today.
Speaker 4: It's Mother's Day.
Speaker 6: I'm a mother and I want to spend this day
Speaker 6: celebrating my children and my life. And they said, I said,
Speaker 6: and it's horrible, and I just want to tell you tomorrow.
Speaker 6: And they said, okay, yeah, call us when you're comfortable.
Speaker 6: So I did, still scared to call.
Speaker 3: I wish you had gotten contact information for some of
Speaker 3: those people who did park and live.
Speaker 6: I did, okay, oh, yes we did. They were glad
Speaker 6: to give their They were like, please take our information.
Speaker 6: I got to tell you the best part. We get
Speaker 6: behind the car, take a license plate. I hadn't even
Speaker 6: looked at it till I was talking to the police.
Speaker 6: Disabled vet plates.
Speaker 2: Yep, America.
Speaker 6: That was it for me, was I thought, Oh, okay,
Speaker 6: I got a deeper idea. Why she feels like she
Speaker 6: feels she's.
Speaker 2: She's that person entitlement. This is our country.
Speaker 6: I will tell you the problem I'm having now weeks
Speaker 6: later is I did call the police, and they were
Speaker 6: very compassionate, and they did listen, and he did ask
Speaker 6: me if I wanted to press charges, and I said absolutely,
Speaker 6: because this is a hate crime. She attacked me. I
Speaker 6: did not touch her. I did not instigate any of
Speaker 6: this or even want any of this, clearly, and I
Speaker 6: don't think this is the first time she's behaved this way,
Speaker 6: and I don't think that it could.
Speaker 4: Be the last.
Speaker 6: Because she feels entitled to do this, she feels okay
Speaker 6: with it, and she literally was fine with the whole scenario.
Speaker 6: So to me, I don't care how old or young
Speaker 6: she is, who she is, what she's done, what happened
Speaker 6: that day not acceptable, not okay, agreeable. The officer was
Speaker 6: very agreeable and very apologetic and very feeling really bad
Speaker 6: about the whole thing. But I haven't heard from them
Speaker 6: since a DETECTIVEILL call you in a day or two.
Speaker 6: I haven't heard from them since I took the block
Speaker 6: off my phone so that anyone who calls me, I
Speaker 6: can answer it hasn't happened.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, there's a lot to be said about
Speaker 1: I mean, a public enemy said nine to one one
Speaker 1: is a joke, you know, And I don't want to
Speaker 1: make this show about that. This episode is not about
Speaker 1: that specifically, because we could dedicate a whole lot of resources.
Speaker 2: To just that song and just that sentiment.
Speaker 1: But I don't imagine that in the city of Phoenix, Arizona,
Speaker 1: something that would be regarded as a hate crime is
Speaker 1: ever going to be given top priority. When a black
Speaker 1: woman is attacked at a grocery store by an older
Speaker 1: white woman.
Speaker 6: I feel like I would have been in cuffs if
Speaker 6: I would have hurt her, if she would have been Look,
Speaker 6: she didn't call police.
Speaker 5: Down my door.
Speaker 6: They're not looking at me. She didn't call police because
Speaker 6: she knew she was wrong. When she took off and
Speaker 6: tried to run over her. She still knew she was
Speaker 6: wrong when she was cussing out everybody else in the
Speaker 6: parking lot. She knew she was wrong.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. So I think that, you know, there's.
Speaker 1: There's a number of things that we can learn from this,
Speaker 1: and I appreciate you telling the story because what it
Speaker 1: does is it gives a lot of insight into the
Speaker 1: mind of a black person, specifically a black woman, when
Speaker 1: having to make those decisions, because i'd imagine that in
Speaker 1: your mind, every decision you make while that's happening is
Speaker 1: a life and death decision potentially absolutely. Furthermore, you know,
Speaker 1: navigating these tricky waters is extremely difficult on your own
Speaker 1: and I want to these are nameless people because I
Speaker 1: don't know them. I'm sure you do, but unfortunately we
Speaker 1: can't name them in this setting. But ultimately it ended
Speaker 1: up being the case that you weren't alone. There were
Speaker 1: people there who knew how to stand up for black lives.
Speaker 1: They knew how to stand up for human lives.
Speaker 4: Yes, and swiftly.
Speaker 1: If you see something, don't just let it go down.
Speaker 1: You know that the and and whoever these people were.
Speaker 1: If you were at the spouts on Mother's Day and uh,
Speaker 1: you know you were a part of this. You know,
Speaker 1: kudos to you. You know, if I get to heaven
Speaker 1: before you, I'll make sure that God makes a place
Speaker 1: for you, because that's what kind That's what happens with
Speaker 1: kind people at the end of their life. And you know,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of folks that reach out to to
Speaker 1: me and to you, and you know they hear what
Speaker 1: we do on the show, and you know they're very
Speaker 1: moved by stories like yours and some you know, stories
Speaker 1: that we discuss in some of the traumas and things
Speaker 1: like that, and it's not a part of their life,
Speaker 1: but they can feel it through a human connection.
Speaker 2: I see your tears. I see your tears.
Speaker 4: It's about.
Speaker 6: I've connected with people for a long time. I've been
Speaker 6: the person to stand up for anyone.
Speaker 4: But it was.
Speaker 6: Very I guess it confirmed. But again, it's so weird
Speaker 6: that we would have the fear. It's so strange that
Speaker 6: we would have the fear, but it also makes so
Speaker 6: much sense in the world that we're living in. But
Speaker 6: I will say it was really heartwarming to have someone
Speaker 6: come to my aid. And it's sad that I didn't
Speaker 6: even think they were at first, that I was like
Speaker 6: how dare you yell at me? I didn't do anything
Speaker 6: for her, And for them to be like no, no, no,
Speaker 6: they were just so.
Speaker 4: They were so.
Speaker 6: Willing to stand in between her, to stand in me,
Speaker 6: between us, and to say you're not going to do
Speaker 6: anything else.
Speaker 4: This is crazy.
Speaker 6: And I will say that that has restored some of
Speaker 6: my faith in humans, especially when things have been so crazy.
Speaker 6: They've been so crazy. But I do think that we
Speaker 6: do need to show more compassion for not just I
Speaker 6: mean anyone of color.
Speaker 4: You have to understand that people with skin.
Speaker 6: That's just a little bit darker than what someone else
Speaker 6: might be comfortable with is able to be a target,
Speaker 6: is able to feel someone's hate. It's crazy because I
Speaker 6: love how Aria started this is we are such a
Speaker 6: loving family and so loving to people, to humans, which
Speaker 6: is we love people.
Speaker 5: With kindness and loving, loving actions back. And I do
Speaker 5: mean on the daily I work. I mentioned this at
Speaker 5: a place in an environment that is very racially hostile.
Speaker 5: Daily i'm and she does smile person of color that
Speaker 5: is seen in the dealership. And then I brought one
Speaker 5: other person to work there, and if it weren't for me,
Speaker 5: it would be only white people in there, and so
Speaker 5: every day people are confident enough because I'm nice and
Speaker 5: I'm kind to talk to me however they want say
Speaker 5: whatever comments they want to say. You know, they're they're
Speaker 5: all older. So they say classic racist jokes and classic
Speaker 5: things about my hair, and they wish my hair got
Speaker 5: pulled in school. I'm like what, And I literally come.
Speaker 6: Back outrageous because I know and there's something to be said.
Speaker 1: My son, Christian, he wears his hair the way it comes.
Speaker 1: I love that about him, and it's this gigantic, majestic thing,
Speaker 1: this huge afro.
Speaker 2: He just grows.
Speaker 1: A nice one has to do you And so I
Speaker 1: know what it means to wear your hair proudly if
Speaker 1: you can grow it that way. My baby does that.
Speaker 1: He wears it the school. There's a little backpack and
Speaker 1: floppyr hair all around.
Speaker 2: You know, I commend you for that. I think that's special.
Speaker 2: I think the world needs more.
Speaker 1: Of that type of that specific type of beauty.
Speaker 5: And fearlessness because it doesn't matter what everyone says. That's
Speaker 5: the main also main takeaway is that as nasty as
Speaker 5: people are, you can still be your kind self and
Speaker 5: your light will always shine through.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 6: That's why I say classy as she holds her head
Speaker 6: high and she takes the comments and the insults and turns.
Speaker 4: In a moment she does, She's like, I'm teaching men.
Speaker 5: To teach you how how a classy black person that
Speaker 5: you don't expect me to react in the way that
Speaker 5: I'm going to because of what you just said. You
Speaker 5: expect me to react with harshness, expect me to react
Speaker 5: with the exact behavior they're displaying towards me. And I'm like, listen,
Speaker 5: I don't have to behave the way that they expect
Speaker 5: from me, but I have had to work on my
Speaker 5: reactions because I used to smile because I am so
Speaker 5: taken aback. And then I'm like, oh wow, oh wow,
Speaker 5: I'm laughing with them. I'm letting them laugh at me,
Speaker 5: and I'm laughing with them. So I just definitely show them, Okay,
Speaker 5: what you just said isn't right. I don't have to
Speaker 5: say anything to you, but the way I behave is
Speaker 5: going to teach you. And then I'm going to continue
Speaker 5: helping you the way I am. And then you're gonna
Speaker 5: feel bad, and you're gonna feel bad.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm gonna if If if you don't mind,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell a story because I think I think
Speaker 1: that is you know, a real big part of this
Speaker 1: show was to make sure that we were able to
Speaker 1: not only tell our own stories, but to empower the
Speaker 1: folks that support us. You know, they may not look
Speaker 1: like us, may not be able to relate directly with
Speaker 1: our experiences, but through their own conviction and kindness and
Speaker 1: their own hearts, recognize that perhaps their African brothers and sisters,
Speaker 1: or their their Native brothers and sisters, their Mexican brothers
Speaker 1: and sisters, or otherwise some other form of LATINX person
Speaker 1: or you know whoever, might have been born with one
Speaker 1: or more strikes against them, and they would like to
Speaker 1: see a.
Speaker 2: More fair world.
Speaker 1: There's a man I know named Martin. I can say
Speaker 1: his name because he's a friend of mine. Martin is
Speaker 1: an older white man, excellent person. And you're gonna hear
Speaker 1: what I'm about to say about him, and doesn't sound
Speaker 1: like he's an excellent person, but he is.
Speaker 2: I know him.
Speaker 1: He's older, and I know that I tend to be
Speaker 1: a little bit more forgiving, and I know that he
Speaker 1: didn't say anything crazy to me. But I'm functioning in
Speaker 1: the capacity of an ally to now my Jewish brothers
Speaker 1: and sisters, and so hopefully this story will show you
Speaker 1: how to be an ally. And then I want to
Speaker 1: say something about white pause, so let me forget that.
Speaker 1: So anyway, one day I'm with Martin and he's telling
Speaker 1: me about some business stuff. You know, he's having a
Speaker 1: big old time, and he says something, and forgive me,
Speaker 1: I have to say it the way that he said it,
Speaker 1: or if you understand, but he says, yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: these people were trying to jew me out of some money, right,
Speaker 1: And you know, in the middle of a long story,
Speaker 1: when you're kind of riding along with the guy, and
Speaker 1: you know, it doesn't really feel like a pregnant pause
Speaker 1: where you can jump in there and say, hey man,
Speaker 1: so you said that. You know, you just kind of
Speaker 1: kind of go with the flow, kind of like what
Speaker 1: you were saying Aria when you were at work and
Speaker 1: people say joke and you're laughing along with them. So
Speaker 1: I found myself in a similar situation before too, where
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, I wouldn't say I was laughing along,
Speaker 1: but I was listening along as though he.
Speaker 2: Didn't say that.
Speaker 1: That to me is absolutely unacceptable because I would want
Speaker 1: my Jewish brothers and sisters to advocate for me if
Speaker 1: the tables were turned and they were able to step
Speaker 1: forward and say, hey, that's not that's not what we
Speaker 1: do around here. And so Martin, being an excellent person, remember,
Speaker 1: finished his brief stating his brief, and and.
Speaker 2: You know we.
Speaker 1: You know, as something came up, I think, and it
Speaker 1: caused us to have to go different directions, maybe a
Speaker 1: phone call, maybe something something life happened, and I knew
Speaker 1: in the middle of myself that I could not hold
Speaker 1: or expect to hold anyone else to that standard if
Speaker 1: I did not make it a point right now, Like
Speaker 1: when you're training a puppy not to compare them to
Speaker 1: a puppy, or you're teaching a child not to compare
Speaker 1: them to a child. But humans and animal we all
Speaker 1: learn in a very similar way. You know, we have
Speaker 1: to deal with it right now, not in hindsight, and
Speaker 1: you know, hey, this happened, this is this is what
Speaker 1: you did, this is how it made me feel, and
Speaker 1: this is what I need you to do in the future.
Speaker 1: Very simple, We're all very simple creatures. If we have
Speaker 1: a little bit of compassion. That formula works ninety nine
Speaker 1: times out of one hundred.
Speaker 2: So I waited.
Speaker 1: It might have been three to four minutes, which to
Speaker 1: me felt like an eturn because in that three to
Speaker 1: four minutes, I was absolutely failing my Jewish brothers and sisters,
Speaker 1: you know, and this guy was getting away with it,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, nah, I can't, I can't. So I
Speaker 1: had to let him finish up. But I was burning right.
Speaker 1: But what I did was when I approached him just
Speaker 1: like you did, are you. I approached him with kindness
Speaker 1: in my voice and in my heart, and I says,
Speaker 1: hey man, listen, I know you. I know that you
Speaker 1: mean well. I know that you didn't mean this to
Speaker 1: sound the way that it did. I'm sure one sure
Speaker 1: this man has not a problem with a soul. Doesn't
Speaker 1: matter if you're Jewish, Muslim, black, he's white, I'm black,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. That's about as far apart
Speaker 1: as if he was going to have an issue with somebody,
Speaker 1: it would definitely be me, because I am the one.
Speaker 1: I promise you that. But I told him, like, hey man,
Speaker 1: when you said that that a person was trying to
Speaker 1: jew you out of money, I'm not sure that you
Speaker 1: understand what you were actually saying. So that's a reference
Speaker 1: to Jewish people, and that's based on a stereotype that
Speaker 1: isn't true. It just is flat not true, and it's
Speaker 1: mean spirited. And as soon as I said it was
Speaker 1: not true, he said, oh my god. But by then
Speaker 1: the ball was rolling right, and so he let me
Speaker 1: say my piece, you know, and he says, listen, man,
Speaker 1: I absolutely, you're asolutely right. I did not mean it
Speaker 1: that way. I can't believe that I said it. Hearing
Speaker 1: it back from you lets me know how awful that sounds,
Speaker 1: you know. And you know, we had a back and forth.
Speaker 1: I don't want to take too much time talking about him,
Speaker 1: but we had a back and forth, and he resolved
Speaker 1: in that moment never to say that again, but not
Speaker 1: only that, to police his streams of consciousness a bit better.
Speaker 1: And so to your point, Aria, when you were at
Speaker 1: work and these people were telling jokes and you're kind
Speaker 1: of laughing along, and you catch yourself in the midd like,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, am I empowering this behavior? Am I
Speaker 1: co signing this behavior? Once at the point at which
Speaker 1: you check that and you say it, and you can
Speaker 1: be kind because I recognize there's a power dynamic.
Speaker 2: Sometimes there's money involved.
Speaker 1: And there's economics, and we live in a capitalistic society,
Speaker 1: which informs our behavior at many points along the way.
Speaker 1: That you're absolutely right when you take a moment and
Speaker 1: you say with kindness and forgiveness, if forgiveness is already there,
Speaker 1: you know, and this is this is not for Aria
Speaker 1: because she obviously knows how to behave this is for
Speaker 1: you listening. You know, if you find yourself in that situation,
Speaker 1: you can absolutely take a moment educate people to be
Speaker 1: the best version of themselves.
Speaker 6: And that can be so quickly done. It's easily done.
Speaker 6: I had a woman in a class I was taking
Speaker 6: a workout class was said, kinky hair, And I just said,
Speaker 6: could just say curly because we were talking about curly hair.
Speaker 6: There you go, It could just say curly, very very
Speaker 6: It was easy, but it made me feel better.
Speaker 4: That's I figure from now on that could be a fense.
Speaker 1: Listen, at this point in our life, in the human story,
Speaker 1: those moments, Yeah.
Speaker 2: That's what I was saying.
Speaker 1: At this point in there in our human story and
Speaker 1: then the American story, we are taking a moment to
Speaker 1: really come to terms of our feelings capitalism.
Speaker 2: Q and I are really strong.
Speaker 1: Critics of capitalism, but capitalism has robbed us of a
Speaker 1: lot of what capitalism makes us think that money is happiness.
Speaker 1: And I guarantee you when I spend time with my son,
Speaker 1: I don't think about money. I just think about what's happening.
Speaker 1: And before we move on, I want to take this
Speaker 1: moment to remind you that you are tuned into civic cipher.
Speaker 1: I'm your host Rams's job.
Speaker 3: So people call me q War, but I think necessary
Speaker 3: because I introduce myself that way. That's the title that
Speaker 3: I've chosen for myself. I don't want to make it
Speaker 3: like people put that on me.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: Q War is how I present myself to the world.
Speaker 3: So that's what they call me, but that's what I
Speaker 3: call me too. If that makes sense, absolutely absolutely does.
Speaker 1: And you know, we're taking a moment to talk about
Speaker 1: Allies and while I while we're here, I do want
Speaker 1: to say one more brief story about Allies, and then
Speaker 1: I want to talk about the trauma that the our
Speaker 1: opposition is enduring and how it manifests self and stories
Speaker 1: like the ones that you told earlier in the show,
Speaker 1: Karina and Aria told earlier in the show. So real
Speaker 1: quick story about Allies there's an organization called White Pause
Speaker 1: and that stands for White People against White Supremacy. I
Speaker 1: think that's an excellent name, and I've heard of these people.
Speaker 1: In fact, we had a guest once on the show,
Speaker 1: twice on the show in Tessa Ferroll and I don't
Speaker 1: know that she's a member, but she works very closely
Speaker 1: with him, and she's white.
Speaker 2: Is a ghost? Why does it come? You know what
Speaker 2: I mean?
Speaker 1: And the kindest person, just an amazing human being and
Speaker 1: has dedicated much of her life to making the world
Speaker 1: a more fair place for people that look nothing like
Speaker 1: her at her own expense, right, And I found when
Speaker 1: I ultimately came into contact with the White Paws that
Speaker 1: they're really about that action. And I want to shout
Speaker 1: that organization out because if there are people like the
Speaker 1: ones who responded to your incident where you were attacked
Speaker 1: physically by a white woman just minding your own business
Speaker 1: on Mother's Day with your family, with your daughter, that
Speaker 1: those people who are fueled by that same conviction can
Speaker 1: actually attach themselves to a cause that I believe is
Speaker 1: very noble. And I'll tell a quick story about them
Speaker 1: when I actually came in contact with them directly out
Speaker 1: in the world. I had to perform at an event.
Speaker 1: I had a DJ at an event. It was a
Speaker 1: social justice event. It was a protest, you know, that
Speaker 1: sort of a thing. I'm out on the streets and
Speaker 1: I have my son with me. I have two sons.
Speaker 1: My little boy was with me this day. He's six
Speaker 1: years old and very very much my shadow. He is
Speaker 1: right next to me everywhere I go. I also have
Speaker 1: to carry equipment to and from this event and DJ.
Speaker 1: And there was a lot of whispers about, you know,
Speaker 1: the police descending on the event and making it into
Speaker 1: you know, shifting the optics around and you know, or whatever.
Speaker 1: And when you're there with your son, you know, your
Speaker 1: mind goes in a very you get a little bit
Speaker 1: more paranoid than the normal black male paranoia that you know,
Speaker 1: just kind of accompanies, you know, us throughout our life.
Speaker 1: And I'm sure black female trauma or paranoia as well.
Speaker 1: But we've spoken about out blackmail paranoia on the show
Speaker 1: que and I have. So anyway, the time comes, the
Speaker 1: incident or the event goes off without incident, and it's
Speaker 1: time to pack up. And now I'm most vulnerable because
Speaker 1: they can pull up, you know, on me as I'm
Speaker 1: wheeling all my speakers and turntables and everything back to
Speaker 1: my car, and I'm walking with my son. And you
Speaker 1: remember one time, and I apologize, I'm not able to
Speaker 1: tell the whole story, but you remember one time we
Speaker 1: told a storyque on the show and we talked about
Speaker 1: a video and he said, they arrested me, Daddy. I'll
Speaker 1: never forget that, and that's something that I don't want
Speaker 1: my son to ever even come close to.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 1: So I've started thinking about this, and I'm like, you know,
Speaker 1: these police are standing around here, you know, and I'm
Speaker 1: the man on the microphone here, and these people are
Speaker 1: chanting and they're you know, and I'm you know, I'm
Speaker 1: with it.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 1: That's what I signed up for. And I'm gonna, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm gonna live on my feet, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. I'm gonna stand tall. But I still don't
Speaker 1: want my son, at six years old, to be traumatized
Speaker 1: by something crazy. And the white paws out of nowhere
Speaker 1: come up to me and they say, hey, would it
Speaker 1: be okay if we walk you to your car right now?
Speaker 1: Dig this, I'm a grown man. I'm not no big gangster.
Speaker 1: I'm not no fight or nothing like that, but please
Speaker 1: don't run upon me. I'm not the one, nor am
Speaker 1: I the two. But that day that energy from the
Speaker 1: white pause was very welcome. They were like, Hey, if
Speaker 1: anything happens, we are going to be your line of
Speaker 1: defense because they won't try it with us, they might
Speaker 1: try it with you. And them knowing that and using
Speaker 1: that privilege to support me in that moment. Those people
Speaker 1: out in front of that sprouts knowing their privilege and
Speaker 1: using it to support you on that moment, that's beautiful
Speaker 1: and that's how you become an ally. And I think
Speaker 1: that taking a moment to tell these stories about the
Speaker 1: allies make ensures that this is not just a traumatic event,
Speaker 1: but that you know, we're able to celebrate a part
Speaker 1: of it. And I do want to take at least
Speaker 1: a moment to talk about the other side, because we
Speaker 1: have to fortify ourselves against dealing with that. But for now,
Speaker 1: thank you, if you are an ally, thank you for
Speaker 1: taking the time to see the world through someone else's lens.
Speaker 6: I want to just jump in with this. One last
Speaker 6: thought from my communication with the police department is he
Speaker 6: thanked me for speaking up because he said to me,
Speaker 6: this is happening a lot more than you know right now, Yeah,
Speaker 6: that's right, And so I want to say that to
Speaker 6: our allies so they feel empowered to speak up, to defend,
Speaker 6: to stand in, to say something, to use your privilege
Speaker 6: to actually help, not just stand by and watch. And
Speaker 6: that day, they didn't just stand by and watch. They
Speaker 6: stood in, They stood up, they stood between stood for us,
Speaker 6: with us to talk about it. And I want that
Speaker 6: to be really talked about because when he said to me,
Speaker 6: thank you for speaking up, because we get this a lot,
Speaker 6: but people are afraid to call.
Speaker 4: Us, I know just what he meant. I was literally afraid.
Speaker 4: I said.
Speaker 6: That's the thing that made me cry the most talking
Speaker 6: to him is I was scared to call you. I
Speaker 6: was scared to have this conversation. So that's a weird
Speaker 6: place to be. But I just want it to be
Speaker 6: said that, yes, absolutely that it is a good feeling
Speaker 6: to be on the receiving end of someone standing up
Speaker 6: for you.
Speaker 2: And you know, I'm not gonna I'm not going to
Speaker 2: pretend that.
Speaker 1: You know, we haven't had episodes on the show where
Speaker 1: we've been very critical of the police, but I think
Speaker 1: that that moment illustrates how policing is a lot of
Speaker 1: different things, and it doesn't all need to be under
Speaker 1: the same umbrella. Because you know, if your job is
Speaker 1: to respond to you know, uh, a mental episode, or
Speaker 1: your your job is to people feel protected, I don't
Speaker 1: think that that necessarily requires a gun, because I don't
Speaker 1: think a gun changed that part of your story at all.
Speaker 1: Him having a gun, not one bit. Just the fact
Speaker 1: that he was listening and he could do something didn't
Speaker 1: require a gun, and so and then, you know, before
Speaker 1: we leave, I do want to say this one piece.
Speaker 2: Again.
Speaker 1: This is a different world that we live in. Black
Speaker 1: people live in a different world. Our brown brothers and
Speaker 1: sisters live in a different world, Our Native brothers in,
Speaker 1: our Asian American and Pacific Islander brothers and sisters live
Speaker 1: in a different world. And our white brothers and sisters
Speaker 1: live in a different world. And for those people who
Speaker 1: have been sold this idea of the American dream, falsely
Speaker 1: sold it and it bought into it, and they grew
Speaker 1: up and they turned thirty and they turned forty, and
Speaker 1: they weren't rock stars, and they weren't famous radio people
Speaker 1: like you, and they weren't you know, their dreams didn't
Speaker 1: come true. They have news networks and alternative narratives that
Speaker 1: frame people like us, people with color in our skins,
Speaker 1: as the reason that they haven't achieved their dreams. And
Speaker 1: at this point in their lives, they are particularly provocable
Speaker 1: and they will stand behind their privilege and try their
Speaker 1: best to ruin your day or even your life. And
Speaker 1: so I wanted to leave you with that just so
Speaker 1: that you're empowered and that you watch yourselves out there.
Speaker 1: But that's going to do it for us here on
Speaker 1: Civic Cipher Once again, I'm Ramsey's job who called me
Speaker 1: q ward special. Thanks to Karina and to Aria for
Speaker 1: coming up on the show. You and please check out
Speaker 1: the website Civiccipher dot com. If you missed the first
Speaker 1: part of the show, you can download this in all
Speaker 1: previous episodes, make a donation and follow us on our
Speaker 1: journey and until next week, y'all Peace,