1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece got him. I'm talking about 2 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: a guy that does not deserve to be called a 3 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:23,479 Speaker 1: US marine, but he insists on saying that none other 4 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: than r J. McLeod, a killer who has dragged law 5 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: enforcement halfway around the world to find him. I Nancy Grace, 6 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:39,559 Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories, Thank you for being with us 7 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation and Serious X one eleven. But 8 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 1: more important than that POC technical legal term r J. 9 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: McLeod is someone else, her name Crystal Mitchell. Take a 10 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: listen to this. Crystal was a visitor in San Diego. 11 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: She loved San Diego and she came here frequently from Phoenix. 12 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: And her last word about San Diego was, Mom, I'm 13 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: going to move there. She didn't know she was going 14 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 1: to be killed here, and so I have so many 15 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 1: memories of her coming to San Diego. I have a 16 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: lot of things hanging in my house and cuts and 17 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 1: stuff because she loves Santigo. She was a lovely mother. 18 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:28,759 Speaker 1: She was beautiful even side out, she was beautiful. And 19 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:33,039 Speaker 1: she was a single mom, unsuspecting of this man who 20 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: she was a property manager. And this man came by 21 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: to get an apartment and that's how they mapped, he 22 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: came across as a doting dad and that's one thing 23 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: she said was he loves his son. He absolutely loves 24 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: his son. And that was a quality that every single 25 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: mom out there will look for, is a man who 26 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: loves his child. You are hearing the voice of mother 27 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: and hero Josephine Wentzel, who has dedicated the last years 28 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: she's been alive on this earth to finding her daughter, 29 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: Crystal's killer. R Jake McConnell. Just thinking about that for 30 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 1: a moment. What if you were tasked with finding a killer, Well, 31 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 1: where do you start? What do you do? And a 32 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: killer who has traveled around the world and knows how 33 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:31,799 Speaker 1: to elude police? I mean and see Grace. This is 34 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at 35 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: Fox Nation. In series eleven. R J. McLeod a man 36 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 1: we have all searched for. He has been at the 37 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: top of the FBI most wanted, a cold blooded killer, 38 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: but it took one of his victim's mother to bring 39 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:56,239 Speaker 1: him to justice. And this is the story of r. J. 40 00:02:56,440 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: McCleod going down thanks to Crystal's mother, Josephine, And what 41 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: a story it is. I want you to take a 42 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: listen now to our friends at KUSI. Around one pm 43 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: on June tenth, twenty sixteen, when San Diego Police Department 44 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: receives a nine one one call, they arrived to the 45 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 1: apartment to find the lifeless body of Crystal Mitchell. The 46 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 1: coroner determines that she died by strangulation and that this 47 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: was a homicide. This strangulation was so violent that there 48 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: were three separate fractures to her voice box and nine 49 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: one one call brought police to an apartment in Allied Garden, 50 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: San Diego, where Crystal's body was found. There were clear 51 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: signs of a struggle and Crystal had numerous injuries. There 52 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 1: was blunt force strung Mama, including to her face and 53 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: torso McLeod had brutally strangled Crystal to death, choking the 54 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 1: very life out of her. There were multiple fractures to 55 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 1: her neck area. Joining me a renowned chief medical examiner, 56 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: doctor Kindall Crowns, the chief medical Examiner of Tarrant County, 57 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 1: that's Fort Worth. He is also lecturing University Texas Austin 58 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: and Texas Christian University Med School. Doctor Crowns, thank you 59 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 1: for being with us. What does that tell you? The 60 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 1: cod cause of death is manual strangulation versus, for instance, 61 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: a ligature strangulation or asphyxiation of some other type. But 62 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:49,359 Speaker 1: three separate fractures to Crystal's voice box number one, What 63 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 1: is a voice box? Sure, that's not the medical term. 64 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 1: So the voice box is the area where your vocal 65 00:04:55,480 --> 00:05:01,479 Speaker 1: corrigal sense is made up by your ty cartilage. And 66 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: cyrod carlage is like this kind of large shield of 67 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: carlag and a structure that sits over the vocal court 68 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 1: of regions. And what I'm hearing with that is because 69 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 1: she is a young woman, usually there's the cyrod carnolage 70 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: hasn't become bony yet or ossified, so it's very pliable 71 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 1: in a young woman, and that usually doesn't fracture in 72 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: a annual strangulation. So to me, that sounds like an 73 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 1: incredible amount of force is being put on her neck 74 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: by the perpetrator's hands. So he's obviously got a very 75 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 1: good grip strength and he put a lot of force 76 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 1: into that to cause that much damage. Interesting to doctor 77 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: Michael the clinical forensic psychologist, former chief of the US 78 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: Marshal Service Behavioral Analysis Unit. You can find him at 79 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 1: Michael PhD dot com. Doctor Burt, thank you for being 80 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 1: with us. What does it tell you about R. J. 81 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 1: McCleod that he not only stringle her, but striangled her 82 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: so forcefully and so violently to cause three fractures in 83 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: Crystal's voice box. Well, Nancy, you know, some of these 84 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 1: perpetrators are gonna cause that much damage because they're out 85 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: of control, or because this is sort of a heat 86 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 1: of passion kind of a thing. In McLeod's case, this 87 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: is a very cold and calculating man. He's he's had 88 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: the discipline instilled from the US Marine Corps. He knows 89 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: what he's doing, and he's committed acts of violence against 90 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: vulnerable people in his past. So this man is committing 91 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 1: this type of damage, in this extent of this damage 92 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 1: because he enjoys it. A cloud is a sadist, He 93 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:53,280 Speaker 1: is somewhat psychopathic. He doesn't have a you know, a 94 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:58,600 Speaker 1: great degree of empathy for other people, and he enjoyed 95 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:03,919 Speaker 1: the power and the rush that he got from hurting 96 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: other people. Yeah, I've heard about people like that. I 97 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: think I've encountered defendants like that that enjoy the act 98 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: of inflicting pain on others. As you said, sadist so 99 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: much that they do it over and over again, and 100 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 1: that is exactly what r J. McLeod did. This was 101 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: by far not his first female victim. He prayed on 102 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: people that were weaker and less cunning than himself over 103 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: and over and over, culminating in the murder of Crystal. 104 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: But when you say doctor Roy out of control, I'm 105 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: not so sure that I think he was out of 106 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: control as much as enjoying the sensation of strangling her dead, 107 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 1: seeing her life leave her body, because I believe that 108 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: there was another pole, possibly in the apartment where they 109 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: were at the time, and they didn't hear a thing. Guys, 110 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: take a listen to our cut too. This is Ginger 111 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 1: Jeffrey's KUSI. We believe that they came into San Diego 112 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 1: that night. They had spent some time socializing and catching 113 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: up with RJ's friends. Then after the hosts had gone 114 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: to bed, they went out to a local bar, had 115 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: a couple more drinks to enjoy their stay in San Diego. 116 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 1: When they returned back to the condominium, we believed shortly 117 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: after that there's some kind of altercation between Crystal and RJ. 118 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: And that's when it killed her and more. When we 119 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: got into the scene, crystals body was found on the 120 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: bed in the guest room at a kind of minium 121 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: where they've been staying with some friends of RJS. There 122 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: were some blood in the scene and some items of 123 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,599 Speaker 1: furniture they've been moved around. It's pretty obvious there was 124 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 1: some kind of struggle in the room. McLeod then took 125 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 1: Crystal's car to the San Diego airport, rented a different 126 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 1: car and drove into Mexico. Officials issue a warrant for 127 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 1: his arrest. The charge murder. Oh yeah, this guy, there's 128 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: no way he's going to be able to claim in 129 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: voluntary intoxication. Let me remind everyone, and isn't this true? 130 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 1: James shell Nutt twenty seven years Metro major case as 131 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 1: a detective, former SWAT, now a lawyer at the shell 132 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:25,080 Speaker 1: Nutt Law Firm. Voluntary use of drugs or alcohol is 133 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: never a defense under the law unless you're a commenttose. 134 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:33,439 Speaker 1: If you're commentose, you can't strangle anybody. But the fact 135 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 1: that he may have been somewhat intoxicated or at least 136 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: under the influence, that's not going to help him at all. No, 137 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:41,560 Speaker 1: it's not gonna help him at all. You can't just 138 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 1: go get yourself drunk and then have a free pass 139 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: to attack people, to murder people, to do whatever you 140 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: want to do. It's not legally a defense and it's 141 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 1: not going to fly in front of a jury. Oh no, 142 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: no way. In fact, it makes me dislike him even 143 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: more if that can even be in matter. So he's 144 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 1: out drunk, acting the fool, and he's got this gorgeous 145 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 1: young date with him, and I don't quite understand how 146 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: a night out turns deadly. I don't know how that flip. 147 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: But when you're r. J. McLeod, it doesn't take much 148 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:39,599 Speaker 1: to flick your switch time stories with Nancy Grace. Guys. Immediately, 149 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: this guy goes on the run, which will be lie 150 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 1: any claim of mental defect, temporary insanity, deluded under intoxication. 151 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: No listen, listen to how well thought out his escape 152 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: plan was. He goes on the run. Take a listen 153 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: to ginger Jeffries described as five foot eleven weighing two 154 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty five to two hundred and forty five pounds. 155 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:15,559 Speaker 1: Raymond McLeod, a former marine, was dating Crystal Mitchell on 156 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: June tenth, twenty sixteen, San Diego police found the victim 157 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: not breathing at an apartment complex in Allied Gardens. She 158 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:27,560 Speaker 1: was pronounced dead at the scene by medics. He's believed 159 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:31,079 Speaker 1: to be on the run in Central America or Mexico. 160 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:35,839 Speaker 1: His last reported location was in Guatemala about a year ago, 161 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: but he has also been spotted in Belize and in Mexico. 162 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: McLeod has been able to hide until now, but we're 163 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: not going to let this coward run from justice and 164 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:52,080 Speaker 1: get away with murder. Make no mistake, We are on 165 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:55,680 Speaker 1: a hunt for justice and we need your help now. 166 00:11:55,720 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 1: Apparently this guy was a wolf in sheep's clothing, although 167 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 1: I always thought he looked like he was jacked up 168 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 1: on steroids. That said, there's no way Crystal could have 169 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: known what she was dealing with. Take a listen to 170 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:18,440 Speaker 1: Ginger Jeffries. When the crime happened, McLeod was still married 171 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: to his third wife. However, the couple was estranged after 172 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 1: a domestic violence incident in Riverside County in April of 173 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, that's just two months before the murder. McLeod 174 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 1: was on bond when he moved to Scottsdale and met 175 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: Crystal They had only been dating a matter of weeks, 176 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: and her mom tells me her friends did not approve 177 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: her friend, didn't like him at all when she met him. 178 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: McLeod had prior violence against two of his previous wives. 179 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: He had attending twenty sixteen Blanky case in Riverside for 180 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: strangling one of his wifes. A roommate interrupted the woman 181 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:09,679 Speaker 1: being strangled. That set the scene for what would be 182 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: a deadly trip to San Diego, California. You know, I 183 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:18,559 Speaker 1: don't get it how the prosecutor can say that with 184 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 1: a straight face, because he should have been prosecuted for 185 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 1: strangling the last wife. But no, nothing happened, and he's 186 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: out walking free, and bam he runs into Crystal, totally unsuspecting. 187 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 1: Joining me right now is a special guest, the woman 188 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: along with the US Marshal Service, who's also joining us, 189 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:46,959 Speaker 1: The woman who has led the crusade to find killer R. 190 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: Jake McLeod. No matter where it took her, no matter 191 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: how long and how hard she had to look, no 192 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: matter how many times she had to go on air 193 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 1: and beg for help, no matter what she had to do, 194 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: she never quit with us. Is Crystel's mother, Josephine wants Josephine, 195 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us, thank you for bringing 196 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: me back at such a special occasion. It's kind of 197 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 1: hard listening to all the details again, which brings a 198 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: lot of anger and makes it even more of a 199 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: celebratory thing that I've done, catching him and getting him 200 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: off the street and putting him in prison so he 201 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: doesn't hurt somebody else. I'd like to see him try 202 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: to do that somebody in prison. You know, every picture 203 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: Josephine that I've ever seen of him, he looks like 204 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: a poser. You know. I think of my husband or 205 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: my father as being the perfect man, unassuming, smart, active, physical, 206 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: in great shape, but not a show off. This guy, 207 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: every time I see him, he's got a gym behind him, 208 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 1: He's got on a torn out tank top, bulging his 209 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: arm muscles with like a fake tan, with a cigar 210 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: or with a gun, somehow propping up his toxic masculinity. 211 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 1: It's like he has so much to prove. I don't 212 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 1: get it. But what did she think about him? How 213 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: did someone like Crystal get tangled up with this poc 214 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: other men? She came out of a relationship and she's 215 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: been out of a relationship for about five months and 216 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: the guy was pursuing her. And you know, here comes 217 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: this big marine and you know, crystal sister was a marine, 218 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 1: and so I don't know that I would call him big. 219 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: It's hopped up on steroids. Those muscles aren't real. No, 220 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: r well big? What is that? Hold on? What about that? 221 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crowns. Have you seen this guy? I mean, 222 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 1: this guy is what, um what five to seven maybe? 223 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 1: And he is just about five to seven wide across 224 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: the chest with all of his fake muscles, fake muscles, 225 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 1: fake ten, fake cover story, fake everything. He was even 226 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: still married when he met Crystal. What does steroids do 227 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: to you? And I am not going down the garden path. 228 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: The rabbit hole of steroids made me do it? That 229 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 1: ain't happening. That's the same thing as drugs and alcohol. 230 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: You take steroids, you go crazy and kill somebody that's 231 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 1: on you. The steroids didn't do it. But how does 232 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: that work, doctor Kendall Crowns. How does he get on 233 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: his fake muscles? Well, the steroids help he put on 234 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: muscle mass. So if he gets bigger muscles quicker from 235 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 1: using a steroids because of the effectless steroids muscles at 236 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 1: his neck. He looks like an ox, like I'm about 237 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: to put a plow on him. How does it work? 238 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: How does that work? Crowns like? It said that it 239 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:09,679 Speaker 1: increases your ability to put it on muscle mask the 240 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: exact effects the steroids have. I'm a muscleture. I can't 241 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 1: really tell you right off him, but I know it 242 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 1: accentuates the ability to put on muncles. So the more 243 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: he lifts, the more to the clicker he's going to 244 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: put it on. Unlike a person who's not using steroids, 245 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: where it could take years to develop muscle masks, he 246 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 1: can do it in a matter of months. So on 247 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:34,679 Speaker 1: the downside, he's also getting liver injury and his testicles 248 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 1: are shrinking, and he's also going to have matta wait 249 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 1: a minute, right there. I do not care about his 250 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:45,920 Speaker 1: liver damage. But that said, Uh, you know, Josephine Wentzel, 251 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 1: your Crystal's mother, did you ever see this guy before 252 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 1: she started going out with him? Never? Because I'm telling you, 253 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,399 Speaker 1: if I caught my husband, David Lanche and the gym 254 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,440 Speaker 1: this much, I say, no, you got that much time 255 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:01,159 Speaker 1: for Jim Deane and him three four hours a day? 256 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 1: You go to work. You can go work, makes some 257 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 1: money for this child, for the children's college. One. Why 258 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: is a grown man in the gym five six seven 259 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 1: hours a day to where he looks like that. If 260 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:16,679 Speaker 1: he has that much time on his hand, he can 261 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: be cutting your grass. He does not need to be 262 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 1: in there building up his neck muscles. Okay, so you 263 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,679 Speaker 1: didn't see him before she started dating him, Josephine, I 264 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,719 Speaker 1: did not. This was not a you know, Nancy, this 265 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:32,119 Speaker 1: I mean everybody's reporting boyfriend and girlfriend. It was dating. 266 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:35,400 Speaker 1: They were dating. It wasn't an intimate boyfriend and girlfriend. 267 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: She already knew him. She was the apartment complex manager. 268 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 1: He went there to apply for at least on an 269 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 1: apartment while he's out on bond for trying to kill 270 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:50,639 Speaker 1: his a strange wife. Josephine, I don't think that any 271 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 1: of the men on our panel are going to understand this. Sorry, man, 272 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: I know you claimed to be just as smart as women. Josephine, 273 00:18:57,520 --> 00:18:59,399 Speaker 1: if you've seen this picture of him with a cigar, 274 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 1: I've seen a picture of the camp. Yes, I have, 275 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: and those are the pictures I have gotten from. He's 276 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 1: got a gun in his left hand and he's having 277 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: like a big fat Cuban cigarless like maybe a one Julietta. 278 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 1: It's just I want to just tear his little head off. 279 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 1: What is it about that picture that's so irritating? If 280 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 1: they arrogance? Yeah, that's it. You said it all in 281 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: one word. You also said how he managed to woo 282 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 1: Crystal with her having no idea who he really is. 283 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:44,479 Speaker 1: She was on apartment complex manager, correct, Yes, that's correct, 284 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 1: and he put in an application to live there, right, 285 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 1: yes he did. And now we're on the application did 286 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 1: it say I'm on my third marriage and oh yeah, 287 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: I just strangled her a couple of weeks ago. Why 288 00:19:56,359 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 1: how could that not pop up on Crystal radar since 289 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,920 Speaker 1: she was the one looking at the applications? Because apartment 290 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:09,959 Speaker 1: apartment complexes only look for felons for somebody that's been tried, 291 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 1: because they should. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm not showing anything 292 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 1: about arrest. What about that shell not twenty seven years 293 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 1: metro major case detective arrest. Don't show up? There's about 294 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 1: to be a conviction. Oh yeah, I wouldn't want to 295 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:27,919 Speaker 1: hurt R. J. McCloud's feelings by what a wrongful arrest 296 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 1: showing up on his rap sheet and now crystals. Did 297 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:33,640 Speaker 1: you think she would have gone out with him if 298 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:38,399 Speaker 1: she had seen domestic assack? Arrest? On that right, here's 299 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: luck is lucky that he's even walking the streets. He 300 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,400 Speaker 1: should have been convicted, he should have been put in prison, 301 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,399 Speaker 1: and he should have been serving time for strangling and 302 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: nearly killing. But this other lay, it is just this 303 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 1: insanity that this guy sell up the street. No officiive 304 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 1: anybody on the panel. And multiple marriages, I'm not knocking it. 305 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,120 Speaker 1: I'm not the church lady. I really don't care. But 306 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 1: first marriage, you think, okay, that was a starter marriage. Okay, 307 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:06,440 Speaker 1: second marriage is still up in the air. You don't 308 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 1: really know what happened. How do I know that you 309 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 1: didn't get married young and you didn't realize what you 310 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:15,680 Speaker 1: were doing. But when you makes me think of Drew Peterson, Well, 311 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 1: you're getting on your fourth, fifth, sixth wife. Except Elizabeth Taylor, 312 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 1: God rest her soul, because none that was her fault. 313 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 1: When you start getting on, it starts to be you're 314 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 1: the only common denominator in all that, So it's your fault. 315 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:37,919 Speaker 1: These women were not connecting the dots of all of 316 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: his relationships, of all of his domestic assaults. In fact, 317 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:46,719 Speaker 1: he was quite a con man, a smooth operator. They 318 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: had no reason to suspect him. Take a listen to 319 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: our friend Josephine Wentzel and our cut nine. Everything was 320 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 1: right about him. He was stable, he was a US Marine. 321 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:01,640 Speaker 1: Crystal's sister was a US Marine. There was nothing to 322 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: alert her that he was a terrible person. And so 323 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 1: when she came out here, and I remember that night 324 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 1: when I got that phone call, I mean, this is 325 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 1: you know. I've been on the side where I had 326 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 1: to give the message to Pearance sometimes I didn't want 327 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: to get the message that their child has been murdered. 328 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 1: And I'm on this side, and I've received that message 329 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:31,120 Speaker 1: that night. Josephine, Crystal's mother, who never gave up. She 330 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,160 Speaker 1: was like a hound from hell on this guy, about 331 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 1: three inches up his tailpipe at all times, trying to 332 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:44,199 Speaker 1: bring her daughter's killer to justice. Joseph Ayne, we have 333 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: talked about this once before, but for those just joining us, 334 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:51,439 Speaker 1: what happened when you realize something had gone horribly wrong 335 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 1: with Crystal. I tried to reach her. She wasn't responding 336 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 1: to me. I knew and my gut something was wrong. 337 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: With her, because that wasn't her to just ignore me, 338 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,919 Speaker 1: especially because I had her children. So my husband had 339 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,160 Speaker 1: textuents that you have to call your mother right now. 340 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,920 Speaker 1: And I found out later from Detective Dobs that when 341 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: they had found her, her phone was there and it 342 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,439 Speaker 1: kept going off and they kept seeing her parents, and 343 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 1: so he said, you know, at some point, he says, 344 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:25,400 Speaker 1: let's get ahold of the parents right away. They're trying 345 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 1: to reach her and they're panicking. And then you got 346 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 1: the call. Yes, I got the call. What happened. Detective 347 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 1: Dobs had called and said that she was in a 348 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:39,919 Speaker 1: mark And I don't remember all the details. I just 349 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 1: remember covering my ears and dropping to the floor and 350 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:49,119 Speaker 1: just my having my heart ripped out. My soul was 351 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:53,399 Speaker 1: stabbed so deep, and it was the most horrible feeling 352 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: in the whole entire world. Most people cannot relate to 353 00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 1: the feeling because Nancy, it's a parents' worst and you 354 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: don't go there. Nobody wants to go there. I had 355 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,640 Speaker 1: to go there. I had no choice. He put me there, 356 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: He put my whole entire family there. He put my husband, 357 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:14,439 Speaker 1: Crystal's children there, he put my son, my daughters. He 358 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:18,119 Speaker 1: really did a number in our family, Jessa Fain, You 359 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: stated that in the past it had been you making 360 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: me the call to parents. What did you mean by that, 361 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,119 Speaker 1: to tell them about their loved one being dead? Why you? 362 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 1: When I was a police officer, and I remember one 363 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,919 Speaker 1: case specifically where I went to a door and the 364 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 1: mom collapsed and she started freaking out because she's all 365 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,680 Speaker 1: a police card. And I lied to her and I said, 366 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:45,160 Speaker 1: just go to the hospital. Are they still alive? Just 367 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 1: go to the hospital. I didn't want to say. I 368 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 1: was just so afraid of the mom actually having a 369 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,360 Speaker 1: heart attack on me. Oh, Joseph saying, I gotta tell him. 370 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: By the time I got cases, the family already knew 371 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 1: that son or the daughter, or the mom or the 372 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: dad had been murdered. But even then, when I would 373 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: go to talk to them to work up the case 374 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,960 Speaker 1: for trial, so I could understand every nuance of the 375 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,880 Speaker 1: victim and their family and their personality and what happened, 376 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 1: I remember it like it was yesterday, because it's so 377 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,679 Speaker 1: painful for them to talk about it and relive, and 378 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 1: it could trigger nightmares, and it all just comes right 379 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 1: back when you have to talk about it. Sometimes as 380 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 1: a matter of fact. Guys, I want you to hear 381 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:36,159 Speaker 1: what Josephine has said before. Listen. The children were staying 382 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: with us in vacation when that happened, and that morning 383 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,160 Speaker 1: I woke up and I knew there was something wrong. 384 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,880 Speaker 1: I felt there was something wrong, and I wasn't sure 385 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 1: what it was. And when we reached out and tried 386 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 1: to speak with her, she never responded, and then it 387 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: was that call that night. But I'm just appealing to 388 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 1: the public. I mean, we have America's best behind me. 389 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,679 Speaker 1: We have one of the greatest teams there is. But 390 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,120 Speaker 1: sometimes Bess is not good enough. Sometimes we just need more. 391 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 1: And I'm appealing to the public help us bring peace. 392 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 1: As you see, this is the children that have to 393 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: sleep at night, and I just want to bring peace. 394 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: I know that finding him is not going to bring 395 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,160 Speaker 1: my daughter back, but it's going to save the life 396 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:27,119 Speaker 1: of your daughter, your granddaughter, your mother. This shouldn't happen. 397 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,440 Speaker 1: There's so many victims to murder, and it continues on. 398 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: It doesn't end. This case may close, but what has 399 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 1: happened to our family would never close. The pain of 400 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 1: knowing he slipped through the fingers of law enforcement and 401 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: was somewhere in the world, joseph Ain had quit, had 402 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 1: left her job after many years as police officer. She 403 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 1: comes back and dedicates her life to bring this guy 404 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,959 Speaker 1: in and listen to this point that she makes. Listen, 405 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 1: this man is brutal. I've done some background checks on him. 406 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 1: He started out with so many domestic violence. Why domestic 407 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,600 Speaker 1: violences a misdemeanor in Arizona, I don't know, but it is. 408 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,120 Speaker 1: And this was an awful thing that happened. If he 409 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: was processed properly, probably he wouldn't be out there. Josephine, 410 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: how does it strike you that because of a processing error, 411 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 1: there was no warrant on him and he was free 412 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:35,639 Speaker 1: to meet Crystal and then murder her. Anger, total anger. 413 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,920 Speaker 1: And you know, Nancy, I haven't addressed that issue yet. 414 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 1: Now that he's behind in bars, I intend to address 415 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:48,119 Speaker 1: that issue. Why are the police officers, Nancy, here's a question. 416 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:52,159 Speaker 1: Why are police officers being prosecuted for murder in the 417 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 1: line of duty? And yet these these lawyers, these bondsmen, 418 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 1: these judges get away with allowing these people to continue 419 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: to murder. If they took at least a little bit 420 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: of time to look into his background. Just a little, 421 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,360 Speaker 1: they would have realized that he was not a good 422 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,479 Speaker 1: candidate to be released. Gone out are five thousand dollars 423 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,400 Speaker 1: cash because it's a fifty thousand dollars bond. Instead, he 424 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,119 Speaker 1: is out on the run. Take a listen to Summer 425 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 1: Stephen San Diego DIA's office. McLeod is a former marine 426 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:31,639 Speaker 1: who may have access to weapons. He's thirty four years old, 427 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:36,880 Speaker 1: five foot eleven inches tall, and has multiple very recognizable 428 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 1: tattoos on his arms and chest and body. He goes 429 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 1: by the nicknames RJ, but maybe using the name Matt 430 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 1: or Matteo to attempt to hide his identity. It's very 431 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: likely he's tried to change his appearance, grown a beard, 432 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 1: he may have put on weight. Joining me right now, 433 00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 1: Special guest, Frankie Sanchez, Chief Inspector US Marshall's Task Force 434 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 1: out of LA Chief Inspector Sanchez, thank you for being 435 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 1: with us so at the get go. We hear word 436 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 1: that he has been in Belize that he is beyond belize. 437 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen, Frankie Sanchez to 438 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 1: our cut twenty. You know this guy Stave German, US 439 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,240 Speaker 1: Marshal Service, our trail that we have followed him. So far, 440 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 1: we've confirmed that he left San Diego and went into Mexico, 441 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: and then we've also confirmed that he was in Belize. 442 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 1: That tip actually came in anonymously from a female who 443 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 1: met him dancing at a nightclub, got kind of a 444 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 1: creepy feeling about him and probably saved her own life 445 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 1: by not going with him. That is the type of 446 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 1: monster that we're dealing with here. He will repeat this 447 00:29:48,280 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 1: action if he hasn't already. Time stories with Nancy Grace. 448 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 1: How many times has a creepy feeling saved somebody's life? 449 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: And it saved that woman the night she met R. J. 450 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 1: McLeod in a bar. Back to Chief Inspector of the 451 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 1: US Marshal's Task Force, Frankie Sanchez again, it's a real 452 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 1: honor to have you on, Frankie. Little known fact. My 453 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: first investigator that I worked with very very closely at 454 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: the District Attorney's office, Matt McPherson. I went on to 455 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,959 Speaker 1: become the US Marshal for the Northern District of Georgia, 456 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 1: and I got to know a lot of the US 457 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 1: Marshals that way. Robert McMichael's and I just have the 458 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: most respect for you guys. You know, when you are 459 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: on the list of the US Marshal Europe the creek 460 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: without a paddle. So what do you do? You get 461 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 1: word that he's in Mexico, he's in the laze, how 462 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 1: do you go about finding him? You know, Nancy, you 463 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 1: you can't let the border stop you. M It's just 464 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 1: it's one of those things, one of those cases that 465 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 1: you just chase it until you get to the end. 466 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 1: Thank God, we have good relationships with agencies and other countries. 467 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 1: We're very fortunate our agency is to be able to 468 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 1: have those partnerships with these outside agencies in other countries. 469 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: So where did the trail lead the US Marshals? So 470 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,720 Speaker 1: initially McLeod had fled into Mexico. How did he get 471 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 1: to Mexico? Just drive across the border? Correct? Yes, he 472 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,720 Speaker 1: drove across the border. How does that happen when he's 473 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 1: got this huge string of domestic violence and then he 474 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 1: strangled somebody dad his second triangulation victim. How do you 475 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:49,240 Speaker 1: just hop in your car and drive across the border 476 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: and nobody checks. I couldn't tell you, Nancy, I couldn't 477 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,479 Speaker 1: tell you. How do you think they do it? I mean, 478 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 1: I think I think the stopbound traffic going into Mexico. 479 00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously everybody is not id going into Mexico 480 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 1: and coming into the United States obviously different. Again, I'm 481 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: not a customers Border inspection officer, but I'm pretty sure 482 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: that's how it works. So from Mexico, where do you 483 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:12,959 Speaker 1: think he went? So from Mexico he went into Beliefe. 484 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:15,960 Speaker 1: That's when the marshals were That's when the marshals became 485 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 1: involved in the case. He was sometime in December of 486 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 1: twenty and sixteen when we were asked to assist in 487 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: the in the location capture of Raymond McCloud. So you 488 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 1: get in on the act after he is already left 489 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 1: Mexico and he is in Belize. You know, there's not 490 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 1: a lot of places you can hide in Belize. It's 491 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,320 Speaker 1: not that big. It's like a rock jutting out of 492 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 1: the ocean. How can you hide in Belize? You know, 493 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 1: that's that's a great question. I actually was down there 494 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 1: physically working with DSS and local authorities running down some 495 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 1: of the tips, and I was blown away with how 496 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: small the country is. So I don't know he made 497 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 1: his way into the expat areas, and at that time, 498 00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 1: you know, nobody knew who he was. Josephine. You know, 499 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 1: once we had found out Hen down there at that 500 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 1: point that from Joseph he had got on boarding and 501 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,720 Speaker 1: get these social media blasts. But she had did Facebook, 502 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 1: and that's when the ties started to flow in way 503 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 1: to go, Josephine, tell me about your Facebook blasts. Well, 504 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 1: I decided it was time for me to get involved, 505 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 1: and I went online. I tried to figure out how 506 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:20,800 Speaker 1: I could get the word out, because you can be 507 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 1: on the top fifteen, top ten, top one, number one 508 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 1: wanted in the world, but if nobody knows, it's useless. 509 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 1: So I realized I needed to put his face out there. 510 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 1: Now that you know he became top fifteen, it was 511 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 1: my work to get the word out, and boy it 512 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 1: is you get the word out. And back to Belize. 513 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 1: I mean, Frankie, the only thing I can remember. Dived 514 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 1: all before I had the twins, all over all over 515 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,440 Speaker 1: the world, and Belize was just a spot to dive, 516 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,239 Speaker 1: and there wasn't a whole lot else in Malaise. I 517 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 1: remember there were goats walking up the street. And when 518 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 1: I found out that he had been in Blaise. I thought, Wow, 519 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 1: they couldn't find him in Belize. That's like saying, hey, 520 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: I couldn't find him in the backyard. So how did 521 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 1: he elude law enforcement? Did he leave Belize very quickly? 522 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,319 Speaker 1: I mean, how did he lure in his victims? You know, 523 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 1: the guy was smooth, he was slick. He knew what 524 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 1: he was doing. I can't tell you exactly how he 525 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,839 Speaker 1: evaded law enforcement down there, but you know I can 526 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 1: tell you he was in the expat areas. I mean, 527 00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:25,520 Speaker 1: he hung out a lot in the northern part of 528 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 1: but eventually made his way down at the southern part 529 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,760 Speaker 1: of Belize. Well, here's the good news. Take a listen 530 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 1: to our friends at KUSI. We do have some breaking 531 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,440 Speaker 1: news to bring you right now. Raymond R. J. McLeod, 532 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:41,959 Speaker 1: one of the US Marshall's Top fifteen most wanted fugitives, 533 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 1: is now in custody in Al Salvador. McLeod was charged 534 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:48,279 Speaker 1: with a murder of thirty year old Crystal Mitchell on 535 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 1: June tenth of twenty sixteen. Detectives from the San Diego 536 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 1: Police Department say there were signs of a struggle and 537 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 1: determined Mitchell was last seen alive with her boyfriend Ryan McLeod. 538 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 1: On Monday, August twenty ninth, US Marshalls accompanied a team 539 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:06,920 Speaker 1: of El Salvadorian police to the town of San Sanato 540 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,840 Speaker 1: and conducted surveillance on the school and questioned. They determined 541 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 1: the individual inside the school was, in fact, mister McLeod, 542 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 1: going by the name of Jack Donovan. I will be 543 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:23,080 Speaker 1: satisfied when he is convicted for brutally murdering my daughter 544 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:27,400 Speaker 1: and that he is sentenced to life in prison. How 545 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:31,400 Speaker 1: was he hiding out? Take those to our friends at 546 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 1: CBS eight. I remember he told me he's from Canada. Also, 547 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:40,759 Speaker 1: his name was Jack, just Jack. Josuay Castro took this 548 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:45,600 Speaker 1: photo of his English teacher in San sanat El Salvador, 549 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 1: at a school called Direct English, where he studied English 550 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:55,400 Speaker 1: for more than two years between two seventeen and twenty nineteen. 551 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:59,680 Speaker 1: Little did he know his teacher was a fugitive Raymond 552 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:03,440 Speaker 1: mc cloud wanted for murder too. Franky Sanchez chiefs back 553 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,879 Speaker 1: to US Marshal's task force. How did you catch him 554 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 1: all the way in El Salvador and why would he 555 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,320 Speaker 1: choose El Salvador. Do you think I couldn't tell you? 556 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,000 Speaker 1: Why he chose El Salvador. Um. I think I think 557 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:17,000 Speaker 1: the further stout he got, the less noticeable he would be. 558 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 1: People would not maybe not know his story, who he was, 559 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,239 Speaker 1: that he was wanted. Um, but I can tell you that, 560 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 1: you know, on the on the twentieth of August, the 561 00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 1: Marshal Service had received the tip from a tipster and 562 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,520 Speaker 1: the the you know, again, we received numerous numeorous tips 563 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:34,440 Speaker 1: throughout the years. Um, this is just one of those 564 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,799 Speaker 1: tips that we had to look into and and and 565 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:41,960 Speaker 1: we did and the information was fruitful, you know. Josephine 566 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:46,799 Speaker 1: went soul is joining me. Josephine, tell me how it 567 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,759 Speaker 1: went down that you found out R. J. McLeod had 568 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,840 Speaker 1: been arrested. Well, Nancy, as you know, for six years, 569 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:58,320 Speaker 1: I've been you know, sharing information with the US Marshals. 570 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 1: Of course, you know, because of legal reasons, they can't 571 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 1: really you know, share everything with me. But we worked 572 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:07,799 Speaker 1: together on my tips, and I just want to make 573 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:12,319 Speaker 1: that very clear. When pictures come in, of course, you know, 574 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,799 Speaker 1: we share it together because is this what do you think? 575 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 1: You know, I'm the mom examining him. I can see him, 576 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:24,000 Speaker 1: you know, it's him a mile away. So when I 577 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:29,640 Speaker 1: had seen a picture that a Sores had you know, 578 00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:34,200 Speaker 1: contacted the marshals. Of course, later it was determined that 579 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:38,400 Speaker 1: they had, you know, that person had seen of stuff 580 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:42,080 Speaker 1: that I was posting around. I wasn't too sure, and 581 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 1: I wasn't hopeful. After six years, it was more like, okay, 582 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:51,840 Speaker 1: I Frankie Sanchez and Francisco Barajas had me work to 583 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,120 Speaker 1: a point where it's like, don't put your hopes up high, 584 00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,640 Speaker 1: don't you know, don't get excited when we find something 585 00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:01,000 Speaker 1: like this. And so it just so happened that I'm work. 586 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:03,400 Speaker 1: I was working on two cases of two missing women, 587 00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 1: and I was assisting some families. So I didn't really 588 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:08,680 Speaker 1: put a lot into it because I knew that the 589 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,840 Speaker 1: US Marshals were on it, and I knew that something 590 00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:15,200 Speaker 1: was going to come off it. I just wasn't sure. 591 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 1: And so when I got word of it, I basically 592 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 1: was in shock and disbelieve. And I kept saying to 593 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:31,080 Speaker 1: the Marshal Francisco Barras, that you know, are you sure 594 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:33,000 Speaker 1: did you check his tattoo? Did you touch him? Are 595 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,719 Speaker 1: you sure isn't him? Is it really him? You know? 596 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,759 Speaker 1: I just wasn't too sure. Nancy I just didn't want 597 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:41,640 Speaker 1: to get my hopes up high, but I was. I 598 00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:45,000 Speaker 1: think I was in shock too. Will there be justice? 599 00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:48,800 Speaker 1: Taking a SNAr cut twenty five KUSI. Raymond McLeod stood 600 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,359 Speaker 1: before a judge for the first time Friday after being 601 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:54,920 Speaker 1: captured in El Salvador. The judge ordered news cameras not 602 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,880 Speaker 1: to show his face in court during his arraignment, but 603 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:01,920 Speaker 1: pictures of this former marine had been plastered everywhere for years. 604 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:06,080 Speaker 1: Wanted by the US Marshals as a top fugitive, McLeod 605 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,680 Speaker 1: had been on the run, accused of killing his girlfriend, 606 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:12,680 Speaker 1: Crystal Mitchell at a residence in Allied Gardens to Dave 607 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,359 Speaker 1: mc joining US Crimeoline dot Com investigative reporter Dave Matt 608 00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:20,040 Speaker 1: what happens now now they'll continue on with the prosecution. Nancy, 609 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,880 Speaker 1: you know he has pleaded not guilty. With the judge 610 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,080 Speaker 1: not allowing cameras in the courtroom, we're going to be 611 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:29,319 Speaker 1: getting a lot of secondhand information coming out of the courtroom, 612 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,480 Speaker 1: so we'll just have to go from there. The bottom 613 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:36,480 Speaker 1: line is he is in custody. It is time for justice, finally, finally, 614 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:41,719 Speaker 1: and we wait as justice enter Fols Nancy Grace crimestores, 615 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:46,239 Speaker 1: signing off with a big, big thank you to the 616 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:57,600 Speaker 1: US Marshall Service and to Joseph E. Winsl never gave up. Goodbye.